Thread #8 By Casey Hayes
A Series of Articles on the CULTure of NTCC
This thread is designed to be my thoughts on New Testament Christian Church.
I was in ntcc for 24 years (1982-2006), (with 18 of those as an ordained minister in good standing), and have an insider’s view of what life is like inside ntcc. We left ntcc in 2006, and I will describe my reasons later in this series of articles. I will state at the outset that I believe ntcc is a seriously flawed church that routinely practices cult tactics, that they have harmed many people, and that they are not practicing true Christianity as laid out in the Bible.
Part 1
Intro
To fully understand the character of NTCC you have to understand narcissism. Narcissism is at the very heart of all of their decisions, policies, manipulation and abusive ways. R. W. Davis is a textbook narcissist. I recommend you read these 2 articles on narcissism first (if you have the guts)—and ask yourself if it reminds you of anybody you know.
http://www.narcissisticabuse.com/characteristics.html
http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/traits.html
Now, I personally do not believe ntcc is a textbook cult. I know some of you will disagree with me over this. I DO believe that ntcc is a church that uses “cult tactics”. In my research I found out that they have a new group of churches called, “Christian cults”, which is what ntcc is. The reason is easy to understand-- Narcissistic leadership has to ALWAYS control and manipulate people to get things done. What better way to control people than to use cult tactics. That is why ntcc has so many rules and regs. Why you can’t do anything in ntcc without PERMISSION. Yes, the dreaded permission. And you all know what I am talking about. I stopped inviting people over for fellowship, because I got tired of waiting in long lines after every church service or class, to get permission. They say it is to protect you, but really it is to Control you. Below is a quick article about cult tactics—it is very good and describes ntcc perfectly.
http://www.factnet.org/rancho5.htm
Once you understand WHY ntcc acts the way it does, and HOW they do it, you begin to see the bigger picture of just how destructive they really are. Because they are so subtle in the way they go about to control and manipulate people, most people in ntcc do not see the problem until they are separated from ntcc and able to look back and see the big picture. When I first left ntcc my main motive was I was tired of never having any money, or if I got some having to spend it on moving AGAIN. [Ntcc ministers move every few years or so. Think about it. How can you get a decent job or have any money to provide for your family, when you have to pack up everything you have and move to a new state every 3-5 years? Plus, be in every conference? (I’ll deal with this in detail later)]. I was miserable and unhappy with ntcc, but couldn’t quite pinpoint the problem. I knew if I stayed in ntcc NOTHING would ever change—I would be on an endless loop of poverty and moving, and I would die an old man with nothing. I was also tired of not being able to do what I thought God wanted me to do. In ntcc, YOU don’t get to choose what you want to do for God, but Davis gets to choose for you. If you don’t like it then you have a problem with “God”.
After I left I began to research things out and stumbled upon Factnet. There I read some incredibly disturbing stories from people I was friends with or knew—stories I knew to be true. I called some of them. I read Curt Waltemeyers story and was dumbfounded that I could have been reading my OWN story! So I wasn’t the only one to go through these things. On and on…. Cult tactics, abusive church systems, marriages split up… everything I read and researched confirmed to me that ntcc is guilty of being an abusive church that uses cult tactics. But, these things didn’t become clear to me in full until after I left and had some time to contemplate everything that we had went through. It probably took me 6 months to see the whole ugly picture.
It’s a common human trait that we learn to adapt to our surroundings, despite how hard they may be. We see this in communist states and third world countries. After a while a controlling, damaging atmosphere appears “normal”. We may not like it, it may even be hurting us, but we learn to “deal with it”. I believe that many people in ntcc, including good ministers, have learned to “deal” with the strange way ntcc does their church business, instead of thinking it out and realizing that they are in a bad situation. But eventually, most ministers and members come to the conclusion that ntcc is harmful, and that the only way to survive spiritually and emotionally is to leave ntcc. Unfortunately, most decide to leave only after they have suffered for years, having lost a wife or husband, all their money, or the best years of their lives. People don’t leave ntcc because they are “crossed up with God”, they leave because they want God (or just want a better life), and realize that ntcc’s version of God is NOT the Bible’s version of God, and their version of Christianity is NOT the Bible’s version of Christianity.
Coming up: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly.
*****************
Casey:
ReplyDeleteI understand your feelings. It wasn't until I while after I left the NTCC, that I was able to see the NTCC for what it truly is.
Sometimes I also thought that my experiences in the NTCC were "Somewhat" isolated. Factnet was an extremely significant wake up call because just like you, I found that hundreds and thousands of people had experienced the exact same kind of treatment that you and I did.
I also called some of these people looking for answers just to learn that the exact same abusive, manipulative, harmful, inconsiderate tactics had been used on them also.
What this knowledge created in me was the desire to get the true message out so others could avoid wasting years of their life, as you so eloquently illustrated Casey.
Great post and we will take later.
Your friend,
Jeff
P.S. For those of you who may not have realized, Casey Hayes wrote and posted this new topic on our homepage. Casey has full access to all posting and editing options on this blog. Anyone else interested can do the same thing if you get me your email address because I have to send you a link. The only thing I ask is please keep it clean and respectful. I understand the respectful part can be hard sometimes when you find yourself responding to ridicules messages such as the one Mike Kekel wrote. I know that many people would like to have the liberty to start their own topic and you can feel free to do that on this blog if you would like.
Jeff Collins
404-405-7842
Casey enjoyed reading what you have posted so far. Glad to hear you are out. Sorry you indured it for so long. But just remember God has a purpose for it. Even if we don't see it yet. That is the way I see my time in NTCC.
ReplyDeleteWhat I think is funny.. well not really funny is.. no matter how long a person was in NTCC rather it was for a short time or a long time. We all have suffered basically the same spiritual and mental abuse.
And we either have been going through the stages of healing with the help of God and other Christians or as I have noticed with some people who have left they have given up on God and other Christians completely. Which is not a good thing if you want to heal and regain a foothold on your life.
And might I say if anyone seeks counseling after leaving NTCC they need to seek out a Christian counselor. Wordly counselors can not help you heal when it comes to the spiritual damage a person has been dealt.
Also might I recommend the book... The Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren. I have to read it for my current Ministry class I am taking. But it has been such a great help to me in the healing process. Among other things. I am wishing I had read this book sooner. I am waiting approval from Rick Warren himself to see if I can quote some of the stuff from his book on my blog. But this book is such an awesome book! Everyone who has ever been in NTCC should go to their local bookstore and buy it and read it.
Well I hope you all have a blessed day,
And please do me a favor. Keep the people of Alaska in prayer as Mount Redoubt has become active as of last night at 10:30 PM their time. My husband is currently stuck there until they allow flights out of Anchorage. He was supposed to return home tomorrow. But his flight out of the oil fields was cancelled today due to the ash in the air.
Again hope you all have a blessed day!
Angie
I knew Casey in NTCC for years, and will testify that it would be difficult to find a nicer, more sincere guy. The vultures at NTCC took advantage of his good nature for decades, and I rejoiced the day I heard he had escaped their orbit. Things will only improve for him now, as they do for all who depart this controlling and abusive "church."
ReplyDeleteVictor said...
ReplyDeleteI knew Casey in NTCC for years, and will testify that it would be difficult to find a nicer, more sincere guy. The vultures at NTCC took advantage of his good nature for decades, and I rejoiced the day I heard he had escaped their orbit. Things will only improve for him now, as they do for all who depart this controlling and abusive "church."
Jeff said...
I re-posted Vic's message because I wanted to strongly echo Vic's sentiments about Casey Hayes. Plainly put he is a great guy with a "GOOD" heart.
I can't imagine anyone treating Casey as poorly as did the NTCC leadership. Casey is one of the main reasons that I have so much disgust for the NTCC leadership.
Have you ever watched a movie where you felt good, because the bad guy got what he had coming to him?
Well on the other hand have you ever watched a movie where the good guy lost in the end, and it was not the ending that you were looking for and it just felt bad?
The second example is how I feel about the way Casey Hayes was treated by the NTCC. He has told me about his own personal NTCC horror stories and they stink to high heaven.
Jeff.
I believe I had Rev. Hays as a teacher in Seminary. (If this is the same one.) I'de be interested in hearing more about what you are doing now. I hope you include that in your story that you are posting.
ReplyDeleteNTCC Minister B.S., M.A.
Yes,
ReplyDeleteI taught at the bs for some years. I was also the main drummer from about 1988 on (Vic was drummer before that-- a little known fact) :)
I have more installments to write, but I will not post where I am and what i am doing. I don't want ntcc to have any info about me. I will say that since leaving my life has gotten 1000% better. God has blessed, things have gone great, and leaving was the best decision I made. The majority of people I have talked to that left have also prospered and are doing incredibly well-- contrary to the doom and gloom lie the leaders would have you believe.
Also wanted to add that besides bro Hays there is also a good woman that I admire very much.
ReplyDeleteI remember her pineapple pies she made for me one time when I told her I loved pineapple.
If I'm not mistaken she was a beauty contestant in Puerto Rico?
She is just beautiful and always carried herself with grace even when pregnant.