The NTCC leaders and specifically RWD has created a church schedule that takes up the vast majority of their quote, "FAITHFUL" church members and ministers available free time. Notice I specified the word "Faithful." In the NTCC, for someone attending church to be considered faithful, that individual must attend every church service and meeting that is offered by the NTCC. This is a historical fact. When I say available free time I mean time away from work and or sleep. If an NTCCer doesn't attend services on Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, Sunday morning and evening and Saturday soul winning and often meetings during the week and prayer meeting of Friday they are often not considered faithful. Over the years this has been the standard in the majority of the NTCC churches that I have been a part of. Those standards seem to be lightning up quite a bit these days but for decades, you either attended ever single NTCC church event or you got blasted when you did show up and you were not considered faithful and your unfaithful status was made known often with no uncertain terms.
So what does that have to do with the title of this topic you might ask? Because of all the time that parents spent in church with the NTCC, they had very little or no time for their children. They certainly didn't have time to allow for their children to participate in school events because if they did, it would certainly have resulted in missed services which would additionally result in an inevitable blasting or reproof. In order to participate in a sport or a musical or a play or any other after school event, a child must participate in practice. If the child participates in practice the parent must pickup the child from school which would certainly result in the parent and the child missing church occasionally. Not unless the parent had the extra money to purchase the child their own car and of course that only applies if the child has reached a "RESPONSIBLE" driving age. And for that matter, how many NTCC parents can even afford to by their child a car? I wouldn't say many. Half of them are broke for all intensive purposes.
So what does this all mean? If you took a poll of all NTCC parents over the last 35 years, I'm sure you would find that very few of their children were allowed to participate in any after school events. Well I'm sure there have been a few exceptions not the least of with is a very notable NTCC child by the name of Grant Kekel. Why is it that Grant Kekel has been able to participate in so many after school activities one might ask? Because his dad not only makes the rules in the NTCC, he also changes the rules in the NTCC to suit the needs of his family and his father in law, Mr. RWD turns a blind eye to all of it.
My daughter just participated in a school play that was absolutely fabulous. She did a great job. She also took second place in the entire State of Georgia in a State Trio Choir Competition and obviously she did an excellent job there as well and we are very proud of her. She was able to do those things because she was able to practice after school which would have resulted in us definitely missing a substantial number of services had we still been in the NTCC if for no other reason than the fact that we would have had to pick her up from school. Things may have changed now but back in the day that would have not been accepted by just about any NTCC pastor. Not only would it have not been excepted because of missed services, but most NTCC pastors would have said that to allow such activities would be unacceptable in the sight of God. We would have been asked, "does you child's after school activity bring glory to God or win souls for the kingdom of God or would Christ have played basketball or football or been in a play?"
Well apparently RWD hasn't asked Kekel those questions because Grant has played basketball, football, and been to piano recital and Kekel and or his wife have admitted to all of this on Mike Kekels very own blog for all to read. So one might ask, how many NTCC kids have been totally deprived of their childhood? I would say thousands if not tens of thousands over the last 30 to 40 years and it is a pure travesty because that is time that they can never get back. My daughter just had one of the greatest years of her life because after years in the NTCC she was finally allowed to be a "KID". I have gotten far past being guilt tripped into placing all kinds of restrictions on my children that Kekel has never placed on his.
Here is why it is such a great travesty. I was an adult when "I" decided to follow the NTCCs schedule and I was an adult when I decided to leave it for good. Your children on the other hand can not make those decisions so consequently they have no other choice but to answer and adhere to your demands. If you take their entire childhood away from them, unlike Mike Kekel has done with his son, and all your child ever does is sit in church, YOUR CHILD CANT EVER GET THEIR CHILDHOOD BACK.
Parents you really need to think about this one long and hard because this topic will potential plague you for your entire life and worse than that, it will change your child's entire life for the worse. You might as well have stuck your child in a coma for 18 years. Mike Kekel isn't sticking his kid in a coma and you better believe that. Kekel manages to find time to get his son back and forth from all these after school events and I don't want to hear this junk about them never missing a church service. Sister Davis told my wife and a whole room full of NTCC women while in the serviceman's home in Columbus Georgia, that her and Tanya Kekel left the state and went to Canada to follow Grant on one of his field trips. So don't tell me they didn't miss a church service. I'm sick and tired of all the double standards that Mike Kekel makes excuses for. The bottom line is that Mike Kekel's son has been allowed to live a lifestyle that very few if any other NTCC child has been allowed to live and parents, that should sicken you if you care one bit about your children.
Man I am glad that I am out of that double standard, hypocritical NTCC church and I am mostly glad for my children because now they "WILL" have a childhood. I don't care if Mike Kekel has changed everything. Knowing the past facts alone should compel you to leave the NTCC once and for all and stop supporting Mike Kekels endeavours and support your own family for a change. AMEN.
Jeffrey Collins
Bro Jeff,
ReplyDeleteDitto. Also I have met guys in the military who's father's were preachers in NTCC and they refuse to go.
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteAs you know me not having time for my family was one of the reasons I left.
I also know of a family who left NTCC and once out their son had no idea how to act because his parents never really got to teach him. He is now constantly in trouble with the law. He was such a sweet kid while in NTCC. But now it is like he did a 180 degree turn. His counselor even says NTCC (and she calls it a cult)is probably mostly to blame for his behavior now. And he isn't even a "legal" adult yet. But he spent I think 15 years of his life (from his birth until his parents left) in ntcc and now he is one messed up little man.
So glad I did not stay in longer and ruin any chance of a childhood for my kids. They(kids) deserve to have their parents around not just while they are sleeping or in the car going to and from church, or eating a meal. I went through it and witnessed it. Being so busy and my kids were in the nursery most of the time. I rarely had time for them and they were almost always kept up way past their bed times because of the hours that NTCC operates.
Well It is their bedtime and I am going to put them to bed now that they are done hugging every last person and animal in this house goodnight LOL!
God bless,
Angie
To this day, the primary regret I have about the NTCC years revolves around the consequences suffered by our children, who were prevented from engaging in many activities conducive to social health. I failed them terribly by permitting our family to be robbed of irreplaceable experiences for years, but am thankful that at some point I got enough of a clue to beat feet out of there. Things improved instantly, and continue to do so today. Departure from the org has my highest recommendation.
ReplyDeleteI think we got away from that soul-sucking environment just in time to enable our kids to avoid serious personality damage. They had some major adjusting to do, but have no problems functioning well in society at this point. Howerver, it did take some time for them (and us) to heal from the psychological trauma caused by involvement with any such controlling group.
Angie said...
ReplyDeleteAs you know, me not having time for my family was one of the reasons I left.
Jeff said...
My children often not having time for anything is the Main reason that I am glad I left. I still and will always have a serious problem with Grant Kekel being afforded privileges that the rest of our children were denied because we actually tried to follow the NTCC rules that Kekel obviously ignored.
Talk to you later Angie.
Jeff
I know, stupid me for taking the preaching so seriously that I actually did or did not do the things the various preachers preached about. It still amazes me how seriouly I took what they had to say about things; and then I come to find out that perhaps they didn't really believe it themselves enough to live it.
ReplyDeleteWe missed many awards ceremonies and other such activites because we couldn't miss the ladies Bible studies and prayer meetings that were supposed to teach us how the be a good Christian mother.
Help with homework? Well, when they got home they were tired (because the previous night we were home late from church activities), then it was dinner, eat and go to the scheduled church activiy. Get up for school on time? that was hard too, because they usually went to bed so late the night before due to church activites.
Had I known that it was "okay" to put my kids in swimming lessons, music/dance lessons, sports, school plays or other school activies or clubs, martial arts, cub scouts/boy scouts/brownies/girl scouts, and so forth, we would have at least tired it too see if it would have interested the kids.
Heck, if I had known a TV with DVD player was okay, we would have had one of those too!
Amusement parks? We'd have been there!
Vacations other than conference?
would have done that too!
Just stay home, be together, no rush anywhere? that would have been more the norm.
Even after we stopped going to that church, it took us a while to spot eating so fast at dinner time.(because we had to be at the church for "soulwinning" before the church service or activity during the time normal people usually have their dinner).
No more and by the grace of God, never again.
signed, polaris
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!!
ReplyDeleteNTCC was actually a positive experience for my oldest son. After I led the song service, my little boy at the time (Daniel) would run up to me and I would swoop him up in my arms, with all the sisters looking on in holier than thou looks!
ReplyDeleteMLJ
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteThank you for bring up this important topic!! Like Vic, one of the things I regret the most about my time in ntcc was that my kids weren't allowed to have a childhood. It's shameful. When I first got to BS in 1984, it was strictly implied that having kids would negatively affect your ministry. I don't think RW outright said it was a sin, but everyone knew that having kids was frowned upon by the leaders, and especially RWD. So what was the result? ALOT of people got vasectomies or hysterectomies-- all in the name of God. But, as soon as Tanya is pregnant with RWD's grandson-- all of a sudden it's OK!! You've got to be kidding me?! So now there are a bunch of people who cannot have kids, because they had an operation thinking they were pleasing God-- but the "man of Gawd" changed his mind.
To give you an idea of the atmosphere in ntcc at the time, I think there was only ONE single sister in bs who had kids. That was it. A couple of ministers in the work had kids, but that was it. When my wife got pregnant with my son, I was afraid to tell Davis. I tried to keep it a secret, because I knew he would jack me up over it, but there comes a time when you have to face the facts-- usually 4 months in. I don't remember what happened, but I do remember living in stress and fear because of it.
When I left ntcc a couple of years ago, my kids were 16 and 13. They had been denied a real childhood due to the all the time that we had to spend in ntcc activities. To make it worse, I was in the band, so that meant I had to also be in choir and band practices. Between work, church activities, bible school and band-- I hardly spent anytime with my kids. But I'm a family man, so it really bothered me. Then I began to see other preachers kids who had been so affected by not having a childhood that they either rebelled, or left the church and didn't want anything to do with church or God. I decided then to put my family first and the church second-- although I did try to balance the two, which was impossible. I didn't want to lose my kids, like others had. Well, I can tell you it worked, because me and my kids are very close. BUT, they still didn't have much of a childhood.
According to Davis, at the time, you couldn't bring your kids to the Fair (worldly), have them in band (worldly), they couldn't visit their "sinner" family members- like aunts, uncles or grandparents (not that we had time to), go on vacation (other than a conference), or a myriad other things normal children do. Then I find out that the Kekels took Grant to the fair, vacation, family, band, field trips, etc. How come it was wrong for us to do it, but not wrong for them? Again-- a Double Standard. And now Kekel is proclaiming that they were never RULES, just SUGGESTIONS. That's a flat out lie and he knows it.
In conclusion, I will say that now that we are out of ntcc, our children's lives have improved drastically. My son goes to college (something he couldn't do if he was still in ntcc); and my daughter is an honor student in high school (also something she couldn't do if she was still in ntcc, because of all the homework she has to do). We even went skiing as a family a couple of times (something we could never do in ntcc). Fortunately, my kids are enjoying what's left of their childhoods.
Polaris,
ReplyDeleteYou know I did not miss many Ladies Bible Studies but when I did it was usually because I was sick or had a doctors appointment and my Pastor always would guilt trip me for missing. Can't you reschdule for another time? Umm no you go when the doctor is avaliable or you don't see him at all. And nights when I did stay home and not participate in a church activity people would flip out calling to see if I was ok. Yea I'm fine just reallllly tired and need to rest. OOOH SISTER!!! That is when you need to be at church! ...oh yea sorry(not really sorry at all) about that, not gonna go if I am too tired to drive! Putting my families life at risk to go to Church when I am too tired to drive is not something that I will EVER EVER EVER EVER do!
Angie
With conference coming up you will see that grant is not going to be there, why? because he is at home going to school and can't miss days because it affects his school work. Apparently he is able to stay home and have some a childless family who will stay for the sole purpose of taking care of him. The rest will have to pull their kids from school and be there because it is mandatory for all the ministers.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad there are some ministers that will have their wife stay behind to care for their kids who are in school.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete"The rest will have to pull their kids from school and be there because it is mandatory for all the ministers."
Jeff said...
It is no longer mandatory for all ministers. I know of two PASTORS that don't go to conferences and haven't for quite some time. I'm telling you; the NTCC is seriously lightening up the standards. And you know what? that's good.
What's not good is that too many folks have been dogged over the years for even questioning the standards and rules say no less not even following the rules. Kekel is one of the few that has been able to get away with blatantly disregarding the rules.
Jeff Collins.
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteI am glad I never had to be in a position to tell my kids that they could not do something while witnessing, Grant Kekel participate in various activities. I would have been at a lost of words to explain it to them.
They now enjoy a normal childhood, but still love God the same.
WTE
WTE: I didn't have to do it for long, because throughout the majority of the time that I spent in the NTCC, I didn't know that the Kekel's lived according to a different standard and a different set of rules than the rest of us.
ReplyDeleteI knew a little but I didn't find out the vast majority of what I know now until after I left the NTCC. The NTCC leaders keep everything quiet and we were all programmed not to ask questions.
Buddy the New Testament Christian Church is led by a serious bunch of crooks and of that, I am totally convinced. These leaders in Graham know exactly what's been going on and they have deliberately kept it hidden from the rest of us. They are deceptive, double tongued, crooks. I actually believe they are tired of being hypocrites with is exactly why they are rapidly changing the rules and standards. That doesn't excuse the treatment that so many of us received.
Jeff Collins.
I've got some things to add to everyone's experiences, from my own first hand experience of a fairly pitiful childhood.
ReplyDeleteWhen my parents were helpers in a certain church, I was still too young to attend conferences (this was when the minimum age was 12 or 13) so to be able to go, and not have me miss school, I stayed with a family from school once, someone my parents barely knew, I stayed with our landlord, the pastor of the church whose parsonage we lived in and my parents barely knew, and once with the landlord's parents, someone my parents had met twice. I felt like I was just being thrown somewhere - anywhere - so my parents could go to conferance and my mother would not have to miss any services by swapping childcare.
While I was still attending that same school, the services switched from twice Sunday, once Wednesday, and once Saturday to the current schedule of every other day. All of my school's events were on Thursday nights. The year before, during the previous schedule, I had been in multiple plays and musicals that my school put on for the parents (I should mention this was a private school) and at the end of every year, there would be held a ceremony in which every single student received recognition for their accomplishments in the form of trophies. My first year I recieved 6 trophies - perfect attendance, perfect bible memory, etc etc. My second year, after the schedule switch, not only was I not able to participate in ANY of my school's activities - plays and whatnots - but I also missed the recognition ceremony. The principal didn't even think I should get my trophies since my parents refused to allow me to miss any church to attend. I was asked to leave school a few weeks early and not return the following year because part of being a member of the school was participating in the activities. I was absolutely heartbroken. I had had the most horrible experiences in the public school, and loved being in a school with other kids like me, who's parent's were religious and could identify with me instead of torturing me for being different. My next year was in a public school, partly because I had been asked not to return to this private school, and partly because my family uprooted to move to another state leaving us practically penniless once again. It was the absolute worst year of my life, and it changed my life for ever. I will never put my kids in public school, because I would never want them exposed to the kind of things I was. Life as an NTCC kid sucked big time, and I'm glad I never have to repeat it, or condemn my kids to that kind of life.
jm
JM: That was a sad story to say the least. Are you still in the NTCC? I certainly hope not. It was the NTCC that drove your parents into believing that the NTCC was more important than you.
ReplyDeleteWhat you wrote is exactly what this thread is all about and what this blog is all about. You also mentioned that your parents were practically penniless.
The NTCC drives parents not only into poverty but it also drives them to neglect there very own children. I certainly hope that you are no longer with the NTCC.
There you go people. All you have to do is read JM's message. Oh; as usual I almost forgot. Just more lies of the devil hey? How about more True Stories Of Life In The New Testament Christian Church.
Sincerely,
Jeff Collins
Casey,
ReplyDeleteabout your kids missing there childhood. Can be thankful that your son got to play baseball while in WA. Is that correct. I can remember him playing baseball. Inside I was amazed that it was OK. And I never saw your wife at a soul-winning meetings. Again,something I sat in amazement. I am not sure. But I don't remember her working in the nursery or sunday school classes. Didn't really matter if you had kids or not. It seemed the expected thing to do was work in this area's.
Things that made me go mmmm while we were in ntcc.
mmmmm... I wonder what you are trying to say: that Mrs. Casey wasn't faithful to the program of God. That his son "did" have a childhood because he got to play baseball one time? mmmmm......
ReplyDeleteMaybe the Hayes had "leaving in their mind" mmmm..........
ANON,
ReplyDeleteYou wrote
"Casey,
about your kids missing there childhood. Can be thankful that your son got to play baseball while in WA. Is that correct. I can remember him playing baseball. Inside I was amazed that it was OK. And I never saw your wife at a soul-winning meetings. Again,something I sat in amazement. I am not sure. But I don't remember her working in the nursery or sunday school classes. Didn't really matter if you had kids or not. It seemed the expected thing to do was work in this area's"
What are you trying to imply, Anon? Keep your sarcastic attitude to your self. Give the man a break. Have you sacrificed your life for the cause of Christ as Casey has?
For your information I never saw Eric Hanna'ws wife or Rev Gandy's wife or Rev Devenshire's wife (by the way he got promoted to missionary status overseas to the Phillipines in prayer meetings either. Unless you have been under a rock somewhere they have a choice if they want to attend or not.
So what If Casey played Baseball one time with his son? Or if his son played? IF MIKE KEKEL'S SON GRANT CAN PLAY SPORTS, SO CAN HIS SON AS MANY TIMES AS HE WANTS!! At least he cares about the health and welfare of his son, which is more than I can say about at lot of Rev in the defunct Org....
And THAT is things to Make You go HMMMMMM....
Oh, and I will not hide like a fault finding coward under a rock.
ReplyDeleteMy name is Brother Johnson, or MLJ if your happy!!
Got a little hot and heavy there for a minute. Being the good broker that I am, I left all messages posted by all parties. Casey is my personal friend and either one of us could have deleted Anon's message but I am not going to run this blog like Mike Kekel runs his. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and to have the liberty to give their side of the story as long as they keep it clean.
ReplyDeleteTry that on Mike Kekels blog. He will simply never post your message because he acts just like a communist with all his censorship garbage. He gets that from the proverbial NTCC handbook. Only let the information out that you want people to hear. That is the way the NTCC does things. That is just one more attribute of the NTCC that I can't stand. They want to keep everything secret all the time like the KGB.
You ask what happened to a brother or sister and the only answer you get is to just pray for them. Man if the brother or sister left the NTCC they left the NTCC so stop with all the secrecy garbage like we are stupid or something.
Jeff Collins
...Sometimes if you ask about a brother or sister you get the "spin"
ReplyDeleteOK, for the record my son did NOT play baseball. He is not very good at sports. After we left ntcc he did run in track, and got within 3 seconds of setting the school record for the 440.
ReplyDeleteMy kids were in the band, because they are both very talented with music. My daughter plays piano and sings; and my son plays guitar. In PR we were fortunate to get them into a high school that specialized in music. My son's guitar teacher in Puerto Rico is considered one of the best classical guitarists in the world. He was a very nice guy.
I'm so glad they can use their talents now.
And also, for the record, that high school in PR was a public school-- so it was free.
ReplyDeleteanon,
ReplyDeleteYes I did sacrfice a huge part of my youth to ntcc.
who really cares Johnson if you give your name.
ReplyDeletemake you feel special.
Casey,
ReplyDeletethe rumor then was your son was playing baseball while in WA. I was not trying to find fault.
Made the point that many times things were shared and made others think how can they do that and get away with it.
Unless you have been under a rock somewhere they have a choice if they want to attend or not.
ReplyDeleteMust have been nice to have a choice. We sure did not. Pressured to be there. And jump through so many hoops to go door knocking. What a waste of time!
Maybe they mistook ME for my son. After leaving ntcc I joined our work's softball team. I wore a uniform. After all those years of having a hectic schedule, it was so nice to actually enjoy life for a change.
ReplyDeleteANON you wrote:
ReplyDelete"who really cares Johnson if you give your name.
make you feel special'.
ANON,
There once was a young man who was caught doing something illegal.
He was brought before Alexander the Great. Alexander asked the young man "What is your name son?" The young man gave him a barely audible answer.
Alexander stated again, "I cannot hear you! I asked already son - what is your name". The boy finally stated "My name is Alexander".
Alexander the Great stated, "Speak up boy, I cannot hear you, you sound anonymous". The young boy replied "My name is Alexander".
Alexander the Great again stated, "Son, you need to speak up. I will ask you one more time what is your name".
The young lad stated again "Sir, my name is Alexander".
Alexander the Great stated "Well, son, MY name is also Alexander. So, unless you are forced to change your profession, you need to start acting like an Alexander. Either Change your life, or Change your name".
So, ANON, why are you hiding? What are you afraid of? Know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.
Bro Johnson
Hey ANON,
ReplyDeleteNo hard feelings!!
I am proud of my name, as you should be yours.
In military speak, ANON will get me to a thousand meter grid square, while a Johnson will get me to withing 10 feet, boots on target!!
Have a Blessed Day!
Bro Johnson
Anon,
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure where you are coming from about my wife not being in church events. Not sure if you are sincere or not.
I will say, my wife hated the nursery. She's not the babysitting type. But, the biggest problem was the sisters. There was so much jealousy, and gossiping, and secret power struggles-- my wife hated it.
As for soul-winning, we had decided to put our children first. This meant she stayed with the kids instead of farming them out to someone else. So she did probably miss alot of soul-winning meetings. Soul-winning meetings are a joke, if you really think about it. You are pressured to go door-to-door, which has never worked, but we are told it does, even though I can't think of one person that is in ntcc due to 20+ years of going door-to-door. And if you were to take a poll (and people were honest) the majority of people would decide to never go soul-winning again. It's not about reaching people for God, it's about showing how loyal you are to the ntcc "program" (which is broken).
to hmmm anon:
ReplyDeleteI wonder if you ever made that little sound when you found out about kekel never holding a secular job, ever, since marrying into ntcc.
As I recall all the pastors of big churches, like in Phoenix, Denver,
Baltimore, etc. the pastors are having to work, even rwd told the pastor in Phoenix when they were about to purchase that church there that he was going to have to go to work driving the trash truck.
To my knowledge he is doing this because his church can't pay this mortgage. Likewise in Denver the pastor there has had a job since getting there. Have you ever gone, hmm...about how come kekel never has had a job and yet he can afford a 20k school for his son, while the rest of the pastors have to hold a job for the sake of getting a bigger church, that is how rwd sees. The org. will get you a church only if you are willing to put up the money for it even if you have to go get you a job. Hmmm......
So folks, bottom line, NTCC only profits ONE family - The Kekels.
ReplyDeleteEveryone else scrambles for the crumbs that fall off of Master Davis' table!!
Suppose you did not know that the Kekels attended or represented NTCC and you saw Kekel driving his son Grant to a $20,000 dollar school so he can attend his football practice in a $50,000 dollar Benz red sports car. You also notice Grant watching movies on the in car DVD player wearing shorts. After Mr. Kekel drops his son Grant off, he is going to go vist a local Bluegrass festival with Tanya and stay until the place get's jumping. There is beer served at the Bluegrass festival freely. Mr. Kekel is trying to fine tune his guitar playing skills after 40 years. He charges $300.00 for a one hour lesson. Mr. Kekel has more than enough due to collecting $3,456 in the Thursday night offering.
Your a struggling local preacher driving a $300 dollar school taking your son to attend a free public school. You have to go visit a local prison to minister to the inmates, one who is an exceptional guitar player who is offering lessons to you for free.
Oh by the way, behind Kekel is his wife Tonya sporting her new $5,000 dollar diamond ring in her $35,000 SUV. You have just seen $100,000 worth of assets just drive by.
Your right, Mr. Kekel. Your god has been very good to you!
MLJ
Did you go hmmm...when the people in amarillo left the org. and the wrights were sent there and by orders of olson had to find a house suitable for the brills because they were going to take over that work, hmm....
ReplyDeleteHave you ever had any of the pastors being taken care of like that when they go to a city to start or take over a work, hmmm....
Yes, the org. takes good care of their offspring and I am not finding fault with that because that is what I would do with my children but don't come and tell me that if I love family and son and daughter more than God then I am going to hell. Heck no.
ANON,
ReplyDeletedid you go Hmmmm when the organizaion evacuated Rev McCoughloff from Waegon, Korea back in 1997 when he had PTSD and thought the church was being invaded?? He literally flipped out. He had a mental disorder.
No, Sir, NTCC evacuated him and his wife out of Korea LIKE REAL QUICK and Rev Stevens came down there to Waegon asap with suitcase in hand.
Funny thing is, I have not HEARD A PEEP from NTCC concerning Rev. McCoughloff. ANON have you heard anything? No? Hmmmmmmmmmmm Looks like another homeless Vet on the street!!
Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete"Casey, about your kids missing there childhood. Can be thankful that your son got to play baseball while in WA. Is that correct. I can remember him playing baseball. Inside I was amazed that it was OK."
Jeff Collins said...
Well Anonymous; it looks like Casey set the record straight. I'm not sure where you are getting your information from but Casey categorically said that his son did not play baseball.
Even if he did it wouldn't be that big of a deal because it wasn't Casey who was preaching people into hell for playing sports. There was a whole lot of other NTCC preachers putting folks in hell for participating in sports. Casey also wasn't the CEO of the NTCC who is responsible for the preachers who have been condemning people for sports participation and they have done so for decades. There is a big difference there.
I guess there is nothing wrong with asking though because you did ask Casey if that was correct. Well once again I guess it wasn't correct because unlike Mr. Kekel, Casey's word is good with me. Good to have you here and I mean that. There is nothing wrong with having two sides to a story. More than not it provides balance.
Jeff Collins
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteWhen someone leaves ntcc the leaders have to "spin" the situation and make it look like the person leaving is the problem. God forbid that THEY were the problem. I really don't care what ntcc leaders said about me, because I know I was a good, faithful member of their church who conscientiously obeyed every rule (unlike the church leaders).
One preacher who left last year told me how Kekel was talking bad about me, because after I left I "got a TV"! Like I really left because I wanted a TV. Well, let's put things into perspective. Kekel had been preaching that TV wasn't wrong (a complete 180 on Davis' teaching), and that it was only a rule for ministers. Well, I left the church, I was no longer a minister, so why not? And let me tell you, getting a TV was an eye-opener. For over 20 years I had hear that the "devilvision" was "evil"and "sinful"-- but when I started watching it I was surprised by just how much good is on it. You really have to search (or separately order)for the bad. I think we learned more in 2 months watching tv than we did in years. I don't apologize for it. Of course, now I hear that preachers and members in ntcc routinely have tv's (and movies), so now Kekel owes me a big apology. I guess God changed his mind. Hmmmmmm.
"Have you ever had any of the pastors being taken care of like that when they go to a city to start or take over a work, hmmm...."
ReplyDeleteI can testify that when the pastor of the church we were at when I was little left, we had to leave the building we were at, and temporarily hold church in our basement until we were able to find a suitable place to have church at. When the new pastor came, we had to help him find a place to live. The Olsens had come out right before we had to leave the church building we were using, but did not offer any help or support - just told us to pray that God would help us find a place. We did find a place that was perfect for us - the only thing was that there was a living area attached that my dad thought either we or the pastor could live in. The place was perfect, not too expensive, but for some reason the answer from Davis was no. I'm still racking my brain for a reason. The place we ended up in was tiny and needed a complete internal overhaul. Of course the pastor had to pay out of pocket for the repairs.
jm
jm
To add my two cents. Since I did have Devonshire as my Pastor for most of my NTCC experience. He and his wife both went out soul winning. They were the ones that invited me out and they went out soul winning for most of the meetings we had. Also they went to prayer at the woodbrook church. Also the reason they were promoted to missions was because Sister D as we lovely called her wanted to have a baby. Which she did. And I am happy for them.
ReplyDeleteAlso to the vasectomy commentors.. It is reversible. How do you thinkt he Devonshires were able to have a kid?
Again I have no ill fillings towards them anymore. I am done an over with being upset with them. They are great people inspite of the crap NTCC makes them do. I loved Sister D. She was always sweet and kind to me.
So if you want to go accusing them of doing things they did or did not do or find fault with the reason they went into missions maybe you should check you facts first okay?
They both did soul win on regular basis and they went into missions because Sister D wanted a baby. Everything on the up and up now?
And I just wanted to clear that up. Do not do what NTCC does and accuse people of false things. Please provide your proof that they did or did not do these things. My whole reason for posting here is to share my experience with NTCC. Devonshire and I are on good standing. He apolojize to me for how he treated me. Which shows the man has more character then most NTCCers do. Again I said MOST. I would totally strike up a conversation with them and have a dinner with them again if I ever saw them. But I would never return to NTCC. Davis pretty much put and end to them talking to me after I left anyways. I just pray that one day they get out. But if they don't that God will use them for his glory and not Davis' glory.
Thank you, Mrs setting the facts straight.
Angie
There you have it. Looks like Angie just took up for an NTCC minister. What's funny is that we are constantly being accused of perpetuating lies of the devil on these blogs. I'll bet there aren't too many NTCCers that will call Angie's statement in defense of an NTCC pastor a lie of the devil.
ReplyDeleteThe message that I am trying to convey is that most of us here have no problem with standing up for what we believe is right even if that happens to something having to do with the NTCC. It's called having character. That is exactly the reason that we have left the NTCC and we speak against the double standards. We also have enough character to stand against people who are wrong and I don't care if that persons name is Davis or Kekel or Olson.
Jesus didn't have any problem speaking against the religious folks of his day and I'm not saying that anyone here is Jesus because that is hardly the case. The point I'm making is that just because someone is religious doesn't mean they are right and the NTCC leadership is verifiably wrong as has been proven over and over again right here on this blog.
Jeff Collins
Angie,
ReplyDeleteThe Devonshires were nice folks...although the Rev. could be a little rough around the edges.
Vasectomy.. my husband had his reversed. My husband and I are still trying and it has been a number of years.
Angie,
ReplyDeleteI'm going to have to disagree with you on Rev Devenshire.
The man means well but needs some guidance, and I am not saying that to put the man down.
I had him as a pastor at Fort Riley, Kansas in 2004. He wanted me to oversee the Servicemen's home brothers and to led them in everything - Soul winning, Prayer meetings. I thought it was kind of odd as I was married and just had an infant boy. Why would he tag me to do this?
I disagreed with him on this respect. I gave him the benifit of the doubt and his vision did not work. Why? Because NO brother is going to take cues from a brother outside of the home.
They (the brothers) resented me. I really could have cared less. One guy named brother Dockerty who lived in the home decided he would try to "get back" at me by not clapping along with the other brothers when I led song service.
His little mind games did not bother me. What bothered me was that Devenshire was endorsing this guy to go to Bible School. I busted my tail overseas for six years plus to earn a recommendation to attend Bible School and this immature punk just coasts in?? God help NTCC.
I set goals on the Whiteboard inside the Servicemen's home for the brothers and then Devenshire wanted me to make sure I WOKE THEM UP for prayer meeting. Come on, Devenshire!! Do you want me to wipe their backside too??
One of the so-called brothers wrote a snide comment next to mine on the whiteboard and I knew they would not heed to my leadership.
Devenshire would tell me, "Stick close to me, brother!!" but he never really imparted any kind of spirital insight to me nor coaching nor guidance nor leadership.
His wife was nice and meant well. He just displayed to me poor decison making abilities. Now I thought if you had a baby that was a NO GO for overseas mission work!!! Did NTCC change their policy?? Normally if you have kids you go into a civilian work.
It does not surprise me how NTCC changes on the dime nowadays. The Devenshires are the first I know who had a baby and were sent overseas, although there may be more now.
Again, Angie I am not trying to throw water on your fire, just my personal experiences with Devenshire and how it did not work out between us. And I did try although I think he peeled me away from my wife and infant son too much. An I was naive at the time to go along with it.
On the converse side, he does have a great Colgate smile!!
Bro Johnson
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteI agree, and I think I speak for many in regards to Rev J. C. MacDonald.
The man is a Man of God and has a heart of Gold. He has been overseas in the mission field for way too long. Germany, Korea, German, Korea, Phillipines. Seems like NTCC is abusing this poor man. Yes, he had to work to support his wife and ministry. Yes, he had his moments. Yes, we both became overfamilar with each other. When you are in Korea things are different.
At the time I was the ONLY brother there who was single. Me and Brother Aviles and his family. Rev MacDonald was the only Preacher in NTCC in the Seoul area.
I witnessed some amazing things, things that I cannot explain scientificaly or by intellectial reasoning. The man lived and breathed the Holy Ghost. He has a special annointing of the Spirit. I would say the gift of knowledge.
He told me things about myself NOBODY knew and I am am not talking about generalizations either. He told a woman that she had contemplated suicide and she burst into tears and demanded who told him that. He explained that nobody told him, the Holy Ghost told him.
He was assaulted by a Korean guy with brass knuckels which broke many bones in his face. He had to have reconstructive facial (inside) surgery, and it was a miracle how God healed him. The doctors had to place a steel plate in his head to make his face look natural. The doctor stated that had he been hit towards his temple he would have been killed.
Korea will make you or break you in your walk with God, military brothers be forwarned.
Bro Johnson
Bro Jeff, you just had someone on the blog from Alaska.
ReplyDelete"Cool"!!
Bro Johnson
Bro Johnson,
ReplyDeletewhile the non-clapping bothers' mind games may not have gotten to you, it astounds my mind how people sittting in a supposed holiness, Holy Ghost preaching, prayer meeting kind of church can behave the way they do. Snide remarks? then doesn't that tell what kind of "enviornment" it really is?
signed, polaris
ps we have also experienced a pastor trying to "peel" my spouse me and our childre under the guise of "making him into a leader". what a sham.
OK, now I was thinking:
ReplyDeleteWhy would God call good men and women to minister in a defunctive, abusive, cultish organization?
NTCC may mean well but you can follow their dirty hoofprints and barbed tail and red horns all the way up to MC Kekel and family.
I guess the Lord really does work in mysterious ways!!
Bro Johnson
The sad part is I could not entrust my son Daniel to the ladies to watch him for just ONE HOUR while Young-mi and I were in service.
ReplyDeleteI mean the boy would not stop crying. Then I get a picture from one of the sisters supposedly watching my son in the Servicemen's home downstairs which is showing him upstairs getting kissed on the lips by the sister's little girl because he thought it was cute. I did not think that was cute.
So someone complains to Devenshire and he has a little spill in a Soul Winner's meeting how the childrens teachers should place the safety and well being of other people's children above their own kids. OK.
Then they decide to repaint the downstairs basement. I mean the fumes are so strong that they STILL want to have little children downstairs in the basement with no ventalation for Sunday School?
Once again, smart move Preacher with a big smile.
Bro Johnson
"Bro Jeff, you just had someone on the blog from Alaska."
ReplyDeleteThat was probably me.
Bro Johnson said...
ReplyDeleteHe was assaulted by a Korean guy with brass knuckels which broke many bones in his face. He had to have reconstructive facial (inside) surgery, and it was a miracle how God healed him. The doctors had to place a steel plate in his head to make his face look natural. The doctor stated that had he been hit towards his temple he would have been killed.
Jeff said...
That is such a shame. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if the guy was soul winning or doing some kind of evangelizing when the incident happened. No matter what the case was, it is sad because of what happened to the man and it is sad because NTCC pastors generally have no problem sending people into some of the worst areas to go soul winning. Pastor Mayers had me and or my wife soul winning in the Ghetto with a bunch of thugs running around. There were news broadcasts of rapes that taking place in the very same apartment complexes that we were soul winning in.
The bottom line is it that it wasn't safe and it is a shame to hear about your story and it saddens me. Some of these NTCC preachers need to get back down to earth and stop placing people’s safety and wellbeing in jeopardy by sending them into some of these areas. Mayers had my wife running around some of these ghetto's when she was between 5 and 7 months pregnant, climbing up and down the stairs of some of these spooky apartment complexes. I finally put a stop to all that mess and then I left his church altogether right before my son was born.
Look; I know the Bible and I also know what Paul went through. I also know that is someone's personal decision no matter how you look at it and you cant blame someone if they are not interested in getting mugged or worse having their wife mugged. I know of a case where a sister got bitten up real bad by a dog while out soul winning. I realize that you can't stop evangelizing altogether but some of these who don't even send their heavenly minded pastors could be a whole lot more safety conscious.
Jeff.
Incidentally; the objective is being met here. I am reading story after story of peoples personal experiences while with the NTCC.
ReplyDeleteI know this is nothing new because the same type of information has been posted on Tracy's blog, FACTNet, and on NTCCXposed over and over again. These sites are necessary because they help folks to confirm in their own minds what really takes place in the NTCC. I am convinced that without these sites and the additional information that has been made available, people are often unable to make any sense of their true feelings about the NTCC.
These sites let folks know that it wasn't "just them" and they weren't alone when they felt that they had been abused or used or misused by the NTCC leadership. I'm reading the good the bad and the ugly. People are getting the word out and I just hope that a substantial number of current NTCC members are reading this blog. I also hope that their minds and their hearts are open while they read. Without naming names, there is some very good info coming out from everyone and a respectable spirit seems to have been maintained throughout.
I can be very hot headed sometimes and many of you have taught me how to cool down quite a bit so that I can effectively get my point across. This way I hope not to turn people away from what could otherwise be a very effective source of information.
Jeff Collins
Bro. Johnson as far as I know the mcdonalds are in washington now but I remember when this incident about his assault happened and rwd told about it in a conference.
ReplyDeleteThere was another pastor he is in chicago if I'm not mistaken his name is rev. love he got stabbed by some thug when he was soul-winning in a rough neighborhood.
Then rwd got up in a conference and told all the preachers there that they would go to the bad areas because they had low self esteem to win somebody from a nice area. Another preacher got sued by a lady who was in the army for harrasment. I guess this preacher got superspiritual and kept on trying to get the lady to some to church and the lady got tired of this so she sued him. I don't know what happened, all this was discussed in a conference and rwd
told the people to not be so aggressive with people specially those in the military bases.
In regards to the Devonshires I do know that Sister D. Did not become pregnant until a few months after they arrived at their destination.
ReplyDeleteI do have to say that I saw just how bad she wanted a child and I felt for her. I was excited when she told me that her hubby was going to or did have his vasectomy reversed so that they could have a kid. Because I knew how bad she wanted a child.
I know Devonshire can be a butt. I witnessed it. But it is humbling to me to know that the man would put aside any ego to apolojize for any wrongs done. I still do care a great deal for them. And that does not mean I will ever go back to NTCC because I won't. I am quite happy and doing much better spiritually where I am now then I ever was in NTCC.
And taking up for someone who is in NTCC does not mean I support NTCC. But like Jeff said "The message that I am trying to convey is that most of us here have no problem with standing up for what we believe is right even if that happens to something having to do with the NTCC. It's called having character. That is exactly the reason that we have left the NTCC and we speak against the double standards. We also have enough character to stand against people who are wrong and I don't care if that persons name is Davis or Kekel or Olson."
I will come to anyone's defense no matter what church or cult they are in if I know what is being said against them is wrong. And I am not calling the person a liar who stated the comments in which I responded about Devonshire. But I am one who likes to have her facts straight and the truth know. And I was like that before NTCC and I am still like that now. I have no patience for lies, defamation of character, or half truths, or lack of facts. Doesn't matter where the person is at in their life, etc. I will even defend my Mother-in-law who drives me absolutely batty if someone were to speak falsely about her.
If it ends up me having people dislike me for doing so then more power to them.
Yes Devonshire was a bit harsh at times. But I still think under all that NTCC brain washing that he is a good man. And his wife is awesome.
As I told her once. The first time I ever saw her (she had not yet invited me to NTCC) I knew she was a Christian and it wasn't because of how she was dressed because honestly I thought she looked like she had just got off work and was stopping at the store for stuff for dinner. She was always very kind to me and I could tell it was genuine. Devonshire I thought was a little geeky looking but when I first met him, for the most part he is a good guy. Just needs to get rid of the NTCC brain washing.
If none of the crap that happened to me and my family while in NTCC would have happened I would probably still be there today. I am glad for my experience. I did learn things that I had not known before that have helped me in my walk with the Lord. I also was hurt in many ways. But I honestly can say the apology I recieved has helped tremendously in the healing process.
My Advice to those of you who have been through NTCC...If a Pastor ever apolojizes to you for how he treated you. Please don't be all butt hurt about how long it took. Take the apology. Soak it in. Accept it. And remember God will not forgive those who can not forgive others. So if you can not accept an apology. Then your going to be the one in the hot seat when it comes to dealing with God. Not the person who apolojized.
I am simply here to share my experiences with others. I am not here to cause hate towards others. I told God a long time ago that I forgave those who hurt me even if they do not know it.
But please if you could do one favor. If your going to post about someone who is either still in NTCC or has left. Make sure you have your information correct before you post it. Because there are those of us on here who do know the truth about certain situations and we will state so even if it is in defense of NTCC. And technically I was defending Mr. and Mrs. Devonshire, not NTCC.
I have a greater respect for Devonshire since he apolojized. That does not mean I am going to follow his coat tails. It takes a lot for some people to realize wow I was wrong that wasn't right. It takes even more for a person who was hurt to accept that apology and move on.
Forgiving does not mean forgetting. Forgiving does not mean you need to go back to the person or situation again. Forgiving means letting go of the hurt. It doesn't mean you can't share what you went through. Because people do need to know.
And as I have said before I always pray that God either gets ahold of NTCC and shakes it up and causes NTCC to be an organization that is truely for God and hearts of others or that he puts a way for NTCC to be shut down. But you know as well as I do as long as Davis is alive he will just reopen under another name in another location. That man may be old and stuck in his ways but God can still get ahold of him and rattle his brain. But that is up to us and our prayers.
And normally I don't do this but instead of signing my name I am gong to pray instead.
Lord I come to you today with great sorrow in my heart for those who are in or have left NTCC. Please help those who are still hurting over their experiences in NTCC. Have those Pastors who are still in ntcc and even those who have left who do not know about this blog find it and to read about the experiences here. And help those Pastors to understand the hurt they have caused. Let them feel it in their hearts the way that we have. So that they realize the damage and can apolojize with sincerity of heart. To help those of us who need to start the healing process or even help it along. And please help those who are refusing to forgive and move on to realize that they need to forgive for their own sake if not for the sake of others. Bless us all today and be our comfort and our strength in time of pain, sorrow, and need. Be the rock of our salvation. And help us to stay in your word and your light and not let the way others have treated us cause us to leave the path of righteousness because we know that is what the devil would have us to do. Help us all to have a wonderful blessed week and have a feeling of peace and freedom. In your name I pray. Amen
AMEN!
ReplyDeleteBro Johnson
Angie,
ReplyDeleteI can testify,concerning the Devonshire's. I also love them dearly. He was one of my Pastor's. Had alot of fun when they were with us in a local church. I knew she wanted a baby a long time ago.When I was pregnant,she had that longing look.
Something happened and they were taken out of the church I was in. After that,something changed. Then she left her husband for a while. And when she came back. Rev. Deveonshire was very aloof and stiff. And she was kissing up to the leaders wive's. She had to make amends for leaving and getting back into the good grace's.
Best thing that could have happened for them,was getting out of the US.
Watched a few good ministers change. After a few years more in ntcc. They got aloof from us,when we were BC students. As they tried to become the ministers that rw wanted them to become. Hard,uncaring,slave driver's,money collectors. Not loving,caring ministers that they were when they started out. So Sad!
you are right anon. I had the chance of witnessing this when she came back and got back to her husband she was literally kissing the floor that the leaders were walking on, it was a little too much for me to see because she is just a really good lady. Several times the sisters would tell her or ask her about what she thought about some type of shoes or about hair and she would say that her husband wouldn't let her wear high heels if they were over 2 inches high and they had to be pumps or like she would say "no hoochie shoes"
ReplyDeleteThen she couldn't perm her hair, just a bunch of controlling things that her husband wouldnt' let her do so it gave me the impression that the rev. was very controlling.
Glad to hear she has a baby.
This is some good information ya all. I never knew the Devonshire's as far as I can remember. I think it is good because it lets you see how an NTCC minister operates. For that matter it is a pretty good example of how the organization operates.
ReplyDeleteSounds like Sis Devonshire was put through a lot and I am convinced the NTCC leaders in Graham had a lot to do with it. I know the way they operate. I feel for her.
Jeff
Sis. Devonshire is Genuine. Awesome lady and friend. To bad what she has had to put up with to get her baby. But from the picture's on there blog. He is adorable and they look happy.
ReplyDeleteCM
Its really ashamed when reproductive rights(that is having children) is under the scrutiny of the church.
ReplyDeleteI remember when Davis had Rev Dev. stand up in conference and advertise his new relationship status when they were divorced/separated
He was lauded for choosing "God" over having a baby.
The "mystery" between husband and wife has become church business...sick! Children effect the bottom line I guess!
WTE
Very good post WTE.
ReplyDeleteJeff
AMEN! Bro Johnson
ReplyDelete