NTCC Leadership: When are you going to wake up and put a leash on some of these wild dogs who are constantly attacking some real good, young Christians who are just trying their best to serve God in your organization? I know the answer. Rarely ever; because the abusive tactics have been taught by the example of the NTCC leadership and it goes all the way to the top; and I mean RWD folks.
Ramirez has been verbally beating folks up now for at least 22 years because he was doing it when I was in his church. I am not exaggerating at all; this guy is vicious.
NTCC Leadership: You guys have THE MOST abusive people that I have ever met in my life who pastor right in your churches. This doesn't make any sense. I know what the problem is. The abusive ministers have delusions of grandeur when they fancy themselves to be like one of the Old Testament Prophets while reading stories about Elisha in 2Ki 2:24. Additionally, they are taught that mess by RWD and his fellow flunkies.
The other problem is, guys like Mayers and Ramirez know only one kind of leadership because they never made enough rank in the military to get anything other than barked at all the time. They've watched RWD do the same thing and they are naive enough to believe that's good leadership. Not only that, it's evident that these are just mean guys by nature. Bad combo for sure. Mean dude + NTCC pastor = abusive control monger.
Chief
The other problem is, guys like Mayers and Ramirez know only one kind of leadership because they never made enough rank in the military to get anything other than barked at all the time. They've watched RWD do the same thing and they are naive enough to believe that's good leadership. Not only that, it's evident that these are just mean guys by nature. Bad combo for sure. Mean dude + NTCC pastor = abusive control monger.
Chief
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteI don't know the Ramerizes very well, but it doesn't matter. It is this pattern of abusive preachers that permeates the ntcc ranks. These are NOT a handful of rogue ministers that go off on their own. These monsters are preachers in good standing with Davis, and most of the time his FAVORITE ministers. And yet, Davis, Kekel and Olson do NOTHING to stop the abuse. These preachers, who abuse people verbally, emotionally and spiritually cause incredible damage to good, God-fearing Christians. Some of this abuse takes years to get over. Some people NEVER get over it. Then they blame the devil when someone leaves. They need to look in the mirror and realize that THEY are the devil!
I have a question for those of you loyal to ntcc. Do you honestly believe that God is pleased with ministers who act this way? Is it Biblical justified (per the New Testament)? Can you really see Jesus "jacking people up"? If the Bible says that God will judge those who persecute you, don't you think that God will judge even worse those preachers who are suppose to love and protect the flock, but instead beat the sheep and fleece them for all they have?
NTCC memeber,
ReplyDeleteCasey is right! When did Jesus ever go ballistic on his disciples for minor infractions? They are no different than the school-yard bully!!! God's most sacred place...the pulpit has been defiled!!
Waiting to Exhale
It's true about people changing in ntcc. I also know of alot of people, who were good, sincere Christians, turning into abusive monsters. It's hard to take. I know that alot of us who left refused to be that way, and that had a part in why we left.
ReplyDeleteI used to be good friends with Hannah, and he was a really good guy. We had alot of fun times together. But, alot of people have complained about his abusive pastoring on this blog. It's sad. I'm trying to get ahold of him so I can ask him about it.
I haven't met this Pastor you all are discussing. But I will say this.. Some Pastors have "favorites" who they favor no matter what goes on. And will bend over backwards for, and then they treat the rest of the members of their church like crap. So just because someone saw the nice side of him doesn't mean he wasn't being a jerk to others.
ReplyDeleteHonestly you can't be nice to one person or persons and then treat the rest like crap. It isn't the Christ like way!
I have probably done too much investigating and the more I dig the sicker I get because of the time I spent with the NTCC. The NTCC is full of a bunch of manipulators and I have learned their tricks.
ReplyDeleteThe NTCC is full of double standards and folks that deny it. I don't need to conduct one bit of extra investigation to fully understand that. There are NTCC leaders who have been taking part in things for years that the rest of us were refused access to.
Jeff
Love your Blog Jeff keep up the good work... I have never met you personally, but would love a chance to talk to you sometime
ReplyDeleteTO ANON replying to CM
ReplyDeleteAnon Said "Just posting your true life stories huh? What examples have you given?"
There are all kinds of examples here, factnet, and other blogs. Dig in and start reading.
TO Jeff,
Don't you think its funny how someone can come on here and accuse all of us of lying when we all have similar stories and more then half of us have never met in person, talked on the phone, etc.
I haven't (as far as I know) met any of the people that post on this blog in person. And never knew them when I was in NTCC. I have talked to you (Jeff) on the phone a few times. And shared some things with you.
Don't you find it a little funny that we are all being accused of lying even though none of us have met in person and I know most of us have not exchanged our stories over the phone or via email.
To the Anon that was talking to CM.....There is all kinds of proof out there of the damage NTCC has caused. Start digging you'll find it. And you might actually see something that reminds you of something that you witnessed or went through and it will bring it all back to the surface of your mind and you will remember. And it isn't the devil tempting you. It is God trying to warn you. If you don't listen it isn't our fault for coming out and sharing our experiences. No real christian in their right mind will treat another Christian like crap. And no real Pastor would do it at all in the first place.
Jeff, I just recently did a study on how Pastors should be, should treat their members, etc. I wish I had time to talk to you and work out a comparison of how a Pastor should be and how Davis is. We (those who have left NTCC) all know he is a dog but the comparison would shock you even more. It's kind of scarey! But my time is limited. I have one week left of this class and then I start my next one. No summer break for me! Maybe we can work something out. I dunno. Up to you!
Angie: That topic actually has been covered fairly extensively on factnet and no doubt also on Tracy's blog. That doesn't mean there is not room for it again.
ReplyDeleteLater on,
Jeff
Anon,that is looking for real life stories.
ReplyDeletethere has already been alot shared on this blog so far.
Your just trying to find fault and try and shoot hole's in this blog. Not going to work.
We do have the truth. And ntcc is getting exposed. We can always tell when the truth hits home. Because folks like you get on here. And try and find fault. But you don't really read with an open mind. Try and think of all the wierd and strange stuff ntcc does. Stuff they do,makes no sense. And alot is not even biblical.
Go on ntccXposed.com read some articles on there. It will really get you thinking and your fog will lift.
CM
Blogs like these are important, and show people that ntcc is not a normal church, and has harmed many people. Factnet was a great resource for me when I first left ntcc-- but Factnet is gone. Tracy's blog was also good, but it is also gone. This blog is basically the only one left-- and it will serve it's purpose of warning people to avoid getting entangled in ntcc.
ReplyDeleteJeff,
ReplyDeleteI know I was saying there are plenty of places to look.
Anyways.. As of right now (12:30am 4-30-2009 ) I went to view Tracy's blog and it no longer exists...odd? I check it everyday!
Do you happen to know whats up?
Angie
Ok.. I found out why her blog is gone. She should have left it up with a disclaimer that she was no longer posting and shut off the ability for people to comment just to have it around for informational purposes.. oh wells... Gonna miss reading it but praying all is well with them!
ReplyDeleteAngie: Tracy had to do what she had to do. Tracy and Brian have done a tremendous amount of work exposing the NTCC for what it is.
ReplyDeleteTheir efforts have opened the eyes of many. I wish them the best.
Jeff.
My family and I were under Ramirez a few years ago, and eventually began to see account for his abuse. It was terrible to see this man so judgmental of his congregation. We knew we had to leave and thank GOD, the LORD set us free from that bondage!Whoever said Ramirez changed, well, we can only hope and pray that that is true for the sake of his soul!
ReplyDeleteEven here in Germany this Ramirez was very abusive!! Maybe sometime if I get it together I also can tell his ill behaving here in Germany! Since I am german and english is not my mother tonge it will be difficult!!
ReplyDeleteI know Ramirez is abusive. The NTCC should know also. They condone it.
ReplyDeleteJeff
I used to carpool with Eddie to work. We got along OK, but he was always very uptight. That's not a very good personality trait for one who shepherds souls, and, unfortunately, the NTCC doesn't provide the kind of environment to help one get over that kind of flaw. I'm mellow and easygoing by nature, but the stress of NTCC uber-control made me uptight too. Type A macho alpha males go right along with that flow, but I had to bail. All is groovy now.
ReplyDeleteHe's in Germany now!?
ReplyDeleteWho knows. I wouldn't know where he is at. What I do know is that he has a long history of practicing abusive tactics. He ain't a fun guy to be around I can promise you that. It would probably be a better time hanging around Adolf Hitler if you were a Jew. It's like the guy is mad at the world or something.
ReplyDeleteJeff
Die deutsche Anonymous gesacht,
ReplyDelete"Since I am german and english is not my mother tonge it will be difficult!!"
Vielleicht könnten Sie in deutscher Sprache schreiben und verwenden Sie den Google Translator, um es in englischer Sprache hier?
(Maybe you could write in German and use the Google Translator to put it in English here?)
Wir freuen uns auf Ihre Geschichte wissen!
(We'd love to know your story!)
Don and Ange
April 15, 2011 11:11 PM
Two comments popped up here, I responded to them and then they disappeared. I responded to them but when I saw the comments were missing, I deleted my response because it wouldn't have made any sense without the original comment.
ReplyDeleteTo whoever posted the original comments,
Please post what you wrote again if you desire. I thought they were good comments and I didn't delete them.
I (unknown) must be the one who posted the 2 you refer to cause I don't see them on here but I didn't delete them. & in any matter, you're right, we all face judgment
DeleteCould you post again, basically what you posted before? I thought it was pertinent information.
ReplyDelete