Thread #27 I pasted this from a previous thread.
Another NTCC Sister that I have never talked to before, called me last night and told me of yet another case where a woman was driven to such extreme soul winning while she was pregnant, that she had a miscarriage. Now can I say from a factual, medical standpoint that for sure she "had the miscarriage" because she was guilt tripped into soul winning so much during her pregnancy by her abusive NTCC pastor? Of course not. Can I say that her NTCC pastor lacked basic consideration and common decency and that he was definitely an abusive jerk? Most definitely. Can I say that a woman can be driven to miscarrying her baby due to too much strenuous activity. Yes and this is why.
My wife was driven to do so much for the NTCC church including "much" soul winning that her OBGYN ordered her to bed rest because she was having premature contractions that came months in advance. During that time Mayers was consistently asking when she would be back to church and back to doing all the NTCC activities which includes soul winning. She regularly continued to go soul winning right up to her 7th month until her doctor and I finally put our foot down. Mayers biggest concern was his sorry church program and not the people in it. As I already stated, she finally did stop but she definitely went on far longer than she should have with all that church business and soul winning.
I hold a lot of guilt because I allowed it to continue as long as I did. We left Mayers church for good before my wife ever gave birth to our son. I got sick and tired of his abuse, but I am guilty of allowing it to be perpetuated much longer than I should have.
Bro J. said the same thing happened to his wife but she actually had a miscarriage and the other sister that called me last night told me the same story!!!! Do these pastors care about the well being of their church members? Absolutely not; and when a pastor doesn't even care about a woman who is pregnant and he doesn't care about her unborn child's well being, that is the next worse thing to murder in my genuine opinion.
Driving a pregnant woman like a slave is about as bad as you can get.
Jeff
I think what this does is reveals how ntcc has taken the role of the husband as the "spiritual leader" and twisted it so badly that most of the husband don't have a clue how to be the spiritual leader.
ReplyDeleteDavis idea of spiritual leadership is:
women are subservient to men
women are not worth much
women must be kept in there place by jokes and mockery
women are only good for sex and cooking
women really have no inate value compared to men
comparitively, the pharisees in Jesus day used to pray and say "i thank you that i was not born a gentile or a woman"
but.....what is the Bible's teaching on spiritual leadership?
the man being the "head" of the women realizes its not about being in control but about the responsibility of hearing from God so as not to mis-direct his family
the man is to "love his wife as Christ loved the church and GAVE HIMSELF FOR IT"
the man is to "dwell with his wife with understanding, giving honor unto as being the weaker (more fragile) vessel"
in those 2 portions of scripture their is too much to elaborate on, it would take forever
but anyway,
if the man is treating his wife in this way he would in no way let some domineering, manipulative, jerk take advantage of her
can i get an amen????
now you ntcc boys that peruse this blog in secrecy-
are you loving your wife like that?
or are you just acting as the feminine subordinate to the "minister" who is mistreating your wife and family?
something to think about maybe?
time to be a man and step up to the plate and not let some spiritual bully push you and your family around
take care,
t
NTCC pastors and leaders have proven time and time again that they don't care about the safety of the ministers or their members.
ReplyDeleteI remember being jacked up by Gandy, because I refused to drive 20 miles in an ice storm in St. Louis, and I missed church. Another time there was a big snow storm in St. Louis, and I drove 20 miles down the unplowed highway in foot high snow, because they refused to cancel bible school classes. I was the only car on the highway!!
I heard that Bro. St. Clair was really sick one time with kidney or liver problems, and Davis ordered him to attend the conference or his ministers license would be revoked! I wish someone would confirm that story.
Another time in BS I had to repeatedly leave class, because I was kept throwing up. I thought Rev. Olson would tell me to go home, but he didn't. He made me sit through that whole long class!
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteYou are right about the no regard for pregnant women!
I had the pleasure of having severe nausea and vomiting through out much of my pregnancy! So sometimes I wasn't able to go soul-winning. Or the Sister and I would go soul-winning, we would have to pull over so I could throw up! Finally I told the Pastor I couldn't do it any more! He said,
"Wow, if my wife ever gets pregnant I hope she doesn't get that lazy!"
It reminds me of the early part of the 20th century where they had pregnant women working in sweatshops! NTCC;sweatshop!
Soul Sista #1
Whats up Soul Sister? You stated that the pastor said...
ReplyDelete"Wow, if my wife ever gets pregnant I hope she doesn't get that lazy!"
Jeff said...
What a big fat jerk. What an Idiot. What an imbecile. Do you think that I came up with enough descriptions of that jerk?
Once again NTCC folks: That is exactly why I can't stand your sorry organization and you ought to be pretty ashamed of your so called church also. That ain't how you are supposed to treat people is it? Am I missing something? I suppose that Soul Sister is just making that up. I think NOT!!!
Jeff
T said...
ReplyDelete"if the man is treating his wife in this way, he would in no way let some domineering, manipulative, jerk take advantage of her"
Jeff said...
Amen!!! You are absolutely right T. Once again, and I have stated this before. That is one of my biggest regrets. I finally put my foot down but I waited entirely too long to do it. I let my wife down, when I allowed her to get abused for even one minute by an abusive, NTCC jerk.
I was so caught up wanting to go to their sorry school of rules, that I kept my mouth shut when I shouldn't have. It's just that simple. I knew that I would never get a recommendation to attend their school of rules if I didn't please the sorry, abusive pastor. Well I got sick of trying to please him so I left his church.
Jeff
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteyou may have let your wife down at the time, like we all have, but you have more than made up for it by exposing this disgraceful organization for what it is!!!
Its funny how God takes our weaknesses and uses them to give strength in the end!!
he is soo faithful!!!
t
Soul Sista,
ReplyDeleteI hate hearing stories like that. How did that pastor make you feel? Like you had no value I am sure. These jerk ntcc pastors cause alot of emotional and psychological scars.
Casey said...
ReplyDeleteI remember being jacked up by Gandy, because I refused to drive 20 miles in an ice storm in St. Louis, and I missed church.
Jeff said...
He really cared about your safety didn't he? I think NOT!!! I remember Mayers questioning me wanting to park my car under some type of cover like a drive through bank because we had got caught in a severe hale storm. The hale was breaking out windshields and denting roofs, hoods, and trunks. I called him on his cell phone to let him know that we were either going to be late or not make it at all and he really didn't want to hear that because he acted like I was just making an excuse. Where do these clowns come from anyway?
Whats ironic is you don't forget certain situations like that. This thread is proof that too many NTCC pastors don't care about the well being of you or your property.
All they cared about is their sorry church service of Bible study that most of them are lousy at teaching anyway. I'm not exaggerating. Most NTCC pastors that knew were very poor Bible study teachers.
Jeff
T said...
ReplyDelete"you may have let your wife down at the time, like we all have, but you have more than made up for it by exposing this disgraceful organization for what it is!!!"
Jeff said...
I appreciate your words of encouragement but I feel that the only way I could shed the guilt altogether is to have a chance to do it all over again and tell the abusive NTCC jerk where he could get off at. Of course that will never happen and it's really not that big of a deal but I do regret not sticking up for her a whole lot more often.
There were certainly times that I did stick up for her though, so I guess I wasn't totally brainwashed. One time I told Mayers that he practiced double standards and boy did he get upset. It's good for him. I got pretty good at making him upset the more I got sick and tired of his abuse.
Jeff
i have to say that it is not really there fault that they cant teach
ReplyDeletethey all go to "bible school" and learn the same lame manipulation tactics and are not allowed to study anything outside of there school notes- i know this because i questioned my brother on it
so basically ntcc keeps these ministers in ignorance of what the Bible really teaches and does not want them to actually learn the Bible
it's really ironic because for example: my brother knows the Bible better than most christians i know, but he knows it in such a way that its all peripheral; he can quote the scripture and knows the stories but....he really does not understand context or how to reference things in their proper context or the true spiritual application
and trust me when it comes to Bible teaching CONTEXT IS EVERYTHING!!!!!
i mean, they could be reading the greats like G.Campbell Morgan, Martin Loydd Jones, Charles Spurgeon, etc... but they are really taught to be skeptical of anything but ntcc notes which i have read and they have a few nice applications but for the most part are worth about the same as toilet paper
most of what they teach is outdated and spurious and from the many heresies taught in the dake Bible
t
its funny, we as men are held to such a higher standard than our wives
ReplyDeleteif we have a little fight, i used to pull the old "your supposed to submit to me" card
but all they have to do is retaliate with "are you loving me as Christ loves his church?"
of course we cant win in that debate- but what it does is makes us more carefull and caring of her trying to attain to that standard (which can only be accomplished while walking in the spirit)
so its really best not to "go there"
:))))
t
Casey,
ReplyDeleteWhen the Pastor said that to me, I was speechless(which is a rare thing). "The church that was come as you are", became "Do this or else!"
Granted my husband didn't defend me...but he didn't know what it meant to have morning sickness 24/7 or be pregnant. He was also equally as surprised!
Ephesians 5:25 says Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it. huband
Granted I have to obey my husband( Colossians 3: Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord).
However Ephesians asked the husband to treat his wife as Christ treated the church! Its funny how NTCC does not emphasize that particular scripture!
Did you ever notice how some preachers went on about "If anyone has a problem with my wife...or don't talk to my wife that way etc etc "
Yet they will "Alpha Dog" you and talk to your wife any kind of way! Be a man! Stand up to them!
Women if a Pastor is crossing the line by being abusive to you, your kids or husband...stand up! You can still attend and stand up for yourself...I have seen Pastors that know who to pick on...and who to leave alone!
Revolution!
Anyways that's my $1.02...keep the change!
Soul Sista #1
Good post Soul Sister! You were 100% right with what you wrote.
ReplyDeleteJeff
Totally off subject here for a moment. I have developed so many more friendships since I've been out of the NTCC than I ever did when I was in.
ReplyDeleteI am actually still close friends with some people still in the NTCC. They don't have a problem with me and I don't have a problem with them. I put a bug in their ear every now and then but not very often. I value our friendship and I don't want to offend them. It took me a long time to see the NTCC for what it is, so I don't expect any different from them. Sooner or later they will run into some abusive jerk and that will be the end of it for them also.
I also have quite a few friends who have left the NTCC. You can actually develop friendships when you don't have to adhere to a bunch of stupid rules designed to keep everyone from talking too much with each other. The NTCC wants to keep their bones in the closet and they understand that too much communication between church members will result in too much negative publicity. They especially try to keep folks separated if they are in different NTCC churches. They don't like you hearing about the other churches dirty laundry.
Years ago, I was actually told that I couldn't go to another brothers house if I didn't ask the pastor for permission first. What a jerk.
When my family left the church in Atlanta, because we were tired of the abuse, we were told to completely cut contact with all the people in that church that we had known for a long time. I actually got one of the brothers from the Atlanta church to come and visit the church in Columbus one time. Ha, ha. Mayers went nuts because my wife sent one of his church members a baby picture of our new born son. We were told that we were not allowed to do that and to completely cut contact. What a bunch of control freak, jerks.
They need to be careful about who they abuse. Of course they shouldn't abuse ANYONE but now they have the formerly abused church member, mad blogger on their hands who has his phone number posted on this blog. And the phone calls keep coming. There is no telling how many more folks I will successfully snatch out of the double standard NTCC church?
So what do you think NTCC leaders? Do you think you might have abused the wrong guys family? I think so. And do you know what the worst part is NTCC leadership? There are a bunch of people posting "TRUE" stories about their experiences while in the NTCC. It must be kind of hard convincing people that all of this is no more than just another lie of the devil when all we are doing is speaking the truth.
"Know the TRUTH and the TRUTH will set you free from the NTCC" Wow that rhymed pretty good don't you think?
Jeff
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteMy wife's miscarriage will always rate as the #1 Blackeye of our marriage.
There is nothing I can do about it now. It is past. it also marked a turning point in nor only our marriage, but my wife's relationship with NTCC.
My wife's relationship with NTCC died after the miscarriage. In fact, I was discussing this very subject with my wife yesterday and she stated that she had waited for me at the Seoul Yongsan Dragon Hill Lodge for over an hour. Another Brother's wife had the means to get her to the hospital if she really cared but she did not, why I do not know, and I am not passing blame as I am passed that now.
The fact was I was naive and did not take my wife's condition seriously enough. What was I doing? I was involved with a church activity. I forgot exactly what it was, probably soul winning.
The doctors at the Hospital were extremely sorry to my wife. There was even the possiblity that our child, had it been born, would HAVE BEEN HANDICAPPED due to excessive stress my wife incurred due to soul winning.
So maybe God gave us a break and allowed the child to be aborted.
This event does not end on a sad note. God, not NTCC, blessed us with three beautiful healthy children smart beyond their years and a lovely countenance to look upon.
God blessed us with the loss of one with three. When God wraps it all up, we will ALL be reunited together in heaven - even Joshua, the one who was celebrated but never born.
Stress CAN KILL an unborn baby. Mommy and Baby are connected in more ways than one, and not just by the umbilical cord. Baby and Mommy are also connected by emotions and mentality. If the mother is stressed, so is the baby. Too much stress affects baby development. Severe stress can kill.
You NTCC ministers who KNOWINGLY have played a role in this are guilty of murder and you cannot wash your hands and presume yourself innocent and then state "she did not HAVE to go soul winning".
If you had any decency or common sense about you, you would give that sister a ONE YEAR leave of absence. Thats right. One year for every child born. That is 9 months to give birth to a healthy child and three months to raise the little tyke!!
And for Saint Peter's sake, do NOT take a newborn with you to go SOUL WINNING!!!
I rest my case.
Bro Johnson
why still attend ? get out !
ReplyDeleteNTCC isn't the lifeline to God.
Anon,
ReplyDeleteI agree get out; however, there are some people that have dug their heels in church or they are waiting on their spouse. Some people feel like they do not want some "wet behind the ears" preacher to cause them to leave church.
Whatever the reason..I am asking them to stand up for themselves in Jesus name! Especially for those who cannot stand up for themselves, such as the unborn.
Brother Johnson, your story is heartbreaking, but not surprising. For an organization that doesn't hold children in high regard or sees them as a burden, who could expect them to care for the unborn?
Also Bro J you are right....a mother should not take her newborn soul-winning!
Soul Sista #1
Soul Sista #1
ReplyDeleteEven more telling is this: The church serves as a daycare center for someone not that child's parents to watch the children while their mother / father goes soul winning for hours on end.
My question to NTCC Churchgoers: Would you entrust your precious little one to someone (maybe the preacher's wife) who may disregard the needs of your child?
Think about it: NTCC ministers in Servicemens homes do not have kids. That is the NTCC Rule. Your telling me that your going to allow a stranger who is not a mother to watch your kids?
The expression on my son's face said it all after a few children's church services at Fort Riley, KS.
My paternal instict kicked in and I knew something was wrong.
I did not allow my son to be watched by an immature woman again.
In NTCC,
ReplyDeleteLooks like the preacher has replaced the husband as the spiritual high priest of the house.
I am sorry, I thought it was the husband's responsibility to take care of his own household.
NTCC preacher's wives call their husbands "Pastor". Give me a break. Call them for what they are. "Honey", "Sweetie", "Lambchops" or "that's MY husband"
...It kind of reminds me of back in the days of slavery. Some of the slave masters had their pregnant
ReplyDeleteslaves working the fields. They were so cruel that they had their slaves working into their last trimester. Some of them even gave birth in the field!
"I heard that Bro. St. Clair was really sick one time with kidney or liver problems, and Davis ordered him to attend the conference or his ministers license would be revoked! I wish someone would confirm that story."
ReplyDeleteIt's true. He had been banished from Tillicum to Hinesville for a trumped up reason, and started having trouble with his spleen, which eventually swelled up to the size of a basketball, requiring surgery. He was barely eking out a living scrubbing toilets at Taco Bell, and notified his overseer that he wouldn't be able to make conference. He was told that if he didn't make it, he needed to get ready to turn the work over to his imminent replacement. Some of us heard about it. What could we do? Well, nothing publicly; we were reduced to taking up a SECRET OFFERING for a brother in need to save him from getting fired from his pastorate.
Isn't that shameful? And poor Ralph is still brainwashed into thinking those guys care for him.
A secret offering!!!???
ReplyDeleteThey probably use Rev. St Clair's story to sucker more preachers into "having faith"!
Wow... I'm blown away by this thread. In my own experience in Graham I was pregnant and I had no immunity to chicken pox. Of course I helped in the children's church and some of the kids started coming down with chicken pox. Getting chicken pox during pregnancy can be deadly to the baby.
ReplyDeleteI wanted to back out of helping, but when I told one of the higher ups, it was like a ho hum shrug their shoulder response and I had to carry the guilt trip of how much am I expected to do for God?
Will I be singled out in a service for refusing or will they influence my spouse that I'm not very loyal or godly enough? This stuff seriously went through my head at the time.
Other people outside of ntcc think were just stupid, but when you're in that situation it is a constant fear of losing a spouse or child or family member because of an ntcc leader possibly influencing them against you.
Right after my son was born, he had other issues and immediately I knew these people in children's church do not know how to take care of him and it wasn't long after that that we left (for additional reasons also). Hopefully people will see these stories and it will empower them to make the right decisions no matter how difficult it may be.