Currently I don't have much time because I have to get ready for work however I will preface the series of posts that I am prepared to publish with one statement found in the NTCS handbook.
One requirement on page 12 of the handbook it reads as follows: "We expect that students will continue to maintain these high standards even when away from Seminary."
I personally talked to Mike Kekel on the phone within the last 6 months. He assured me that the quote "knot head" or "knuckle head" pastors who were abusive and controlling, didn't know enough or have enough sense to leave the seminary behind when they went out to pastor a church.
Well Mike; isn't that a great and novel concept other than the FACT that you tell them in your student handbook that they need to continue to maintain these high standards even when away from seminary. Well they never stopped what you should have never started. The fact is if you didn't teach these absurd controlling rules neither would your pastors but the apple never falls far from the tree. I don't care how you think they are supposed to interpret that statement; that is what you wrote and printed in YOUR handbook, and signed your name to. You have a bunch of NTCC pastors who are overly controlling, with a bunch of stupid rules to follow, and they got those rules from your communist, totalitarian handbook and they are continuing to enforce them because of what you teach and partly because of what you wrote on page 12 of YOUR student handbook. I will continue later with the communism part. I will preface the next thread with the definition of the word communism.
"a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party."
Jeff
I want to give clarification to a question. I friend called me today and asked why I had deleted Mr. Durek's posts.
ReplyDeleteI didn't. Apparently people who sign on as google bloggers have the ability to delete their own messages because I didn't delete any of those written by Mr. Durek. Then I realized that if someone read the thread they would have been totally lost, because they would have had no idea who we were responding to or referencing.
So in an attempt to try and keep the thread understandable to all potential readers I had to rearrange and delete certain messages that no longer had any relevance. For the record I deleted none of Mr. Durek's messages; therefor he must have done it himself. Other than STEL's posts or Stingers web-link, I deleted no other messages unless they no longer had any relevance at all, because of all the deleting that Mr. Durek did.
Jeff
You can call me Darwin (or double-D. I did delete them, sorry- I won't anymore... I didn't want to rush right in and start blabbing all the incidents in which NTCC fried my brain. (With the odd logic of it all- or illogic..) I think there is a time frame of maybe 24-48 hours in which a blogger may delete posts. To keep a more decent disposition hereafter, I shall endeavor to correct my misspellings before I post. I really do appreciate the honest, upright, intelligent style of discussion here.
ReplyDeleteJeff,
ReplyDeleteToward the bottom of page 6 it states..."Conferences are mandatory for all students and ministers."
This was little more than three years ago. So if this has changed, as some have shared, it is yet another recent change.
FACT: NTCC has been in existence 40 years.
QUESTION: So who is changing? God or Pastor Davis?
Yours In Him,
pdq
pdq wrote...
ReplyDelete"Toward the bottom of page 6 it states..."Conferences are mandatory for all students and ministers."
This was little more than three years ago. So "if" this has changed, as some have shared"
Jeff said...
This "has" changed or there is at least four liars that I know of still in the NTCC. Kekel told me personally over the phone that Mayers has not attended conferences anytime recently. It is my firm understanding that Mayers didn't make this conference either. I know of another pastor who I won't mention who has missed a few as well; recently, and he said so. I didn't hear it through the grape vine but straight from the horses mouth.
Either these pastors have missed conferences or Kekel, this other pastor, and two other ministers wives lied about Mayers. We either have NTCC ministers, and "wives", notice I made wives plural, lying within the NTCC or there are pastors not attending conferences. That is just the way it is pdq. No speculation involved.
Jeff
Hey Darwin, hows it going. I had no problem with you deleting your messages. It was just that a friend thought that I had done it and he was curious why? I suspect that others wondered the same thing. It's no big deal at all.
ReplyDeleteYou wrote: "I really do appreciate the honest, upright, intelligent style of discussion here."
Jeff said...
I really do my best to try and keep it that way. I know this blog can be more effective if that can be maintained. I'm quite guilty so some very harsh interaction as well. I recognize that and I hope I am a little better than I used to be. I think? All that I am really looking for is that folks realize that everything they write here can either influence NTCC folks to either leave the NTCC, question the NTCC, question themselves, or just conclude that we are a bunch of NUTS. I don't want the last to be the case.
Darwin, I appreciate any and all input that you can provide. I saw your picture in one of the old NTCC handbooks. You, JL Johnson, and BM Coker were three of the head honchos at the "New Testament Christian College," as it was named at that time. You obviously have quite a bit of exposure to RWD and the NTCC. You were one of his main people during that time.
Darwin, I am just trying to get the truth out because I understand just how crafty and crooked the NTCC leadership truly is. Many others just don't seem to see it, and others simply refuse to see it.
Talk to you later Darwin,
Jeff
Jeff said..."This "has" changed or there is at least four liars that I know of still in the NTCC. Kekel told me personally over the phone that Mayers has not attended conferences anytime recently."
ReplyDeleteSo what about all of us that sacrificed 'all' to go to every mandatory conference for decades? All the money we spent, all the jobs we lost.
What is the reason for the change? I spent close to $137,000 on conferences during the last almost 20 years. If you also count lost equity in property that could have been bought, etc. you could easily double this amount.
I would really like someone to explain why we had to go, and now its optional? I 'almost' feel like NTCC owes me about $200,000.
Oh well, things are now going well, and the money is rolling in. I have already recouped my losses (both financial and spiritual). Isn't God good!
Yours In Him,
pdq ♪♫♫♪♪♫♫♪♪.♫..♫...♪....♪.....
to those ladies in ntcc that come on here in secret. Those of you know that ntcc is a shame and there so called standards are not biblically based.
ReplyDeleteHow do you like having that dead,ugle hair down to your butt. Hair that is not required to be not cut. You can't do ANYTHING with it. But kill it with hot rollers,tease it for a ugle outdated poof. You may try and get a style that Fits in with society style's.You have TOO much hair!
Do you ever walk into a store,walmart and people will stare at you. It is not because the envy you. The Complete opposite.
I used to have to live that way. Hated being stared at.
Wouldn't it be great if all the women left ntcc. Then ntcc would really become like the Catholic Church. Filled with Homosexuals!
Jeff said...
ReplyDeleteO.K? There is some truth to that but where did that all come from? I think long hair on women looks kind of nice sometimes. I like long hair on woman in general. That's not to say that I haven't seen some attractive women with short hair because I have but I actually prefer long hair if I had to pick.
I do understand your point though. The real problem is NTCC women being denied the option of having a job. That is why I think they should leave because that teaching can't in any shape form or fashion be backed by the Bible. When their husbands die they are all destitute, and the NTCC ain't trying to take care of them. Wait until this generation of NTCC husbands start dying off and you will really see the blogging start. Many of these ladies don't have anything.
Jeff
Why do alot of men like women with long hair?? When most women have no desire to take care of a Long MANE! I did joke I felt like a lion with a tangled mess of a Mane! I detested the long hair. Because it was required not a choice. Same with not working outside the home. Sex even became something required or you were not keeping the man of God happy. Church was required. Nothing was left up to us as FREE MORAL AGENTS! It was all decided for us.
ReplyDelete1Co 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
ReplyDeleteWhy would you not glory in what God has given you? I think your real issue is you do not like to be feminine. I do not mean this slanderously or lightly. Do you struggle with homosexual thoughts? Or aversion to embrace your femininity? Today's society has made it wrong for ladies to be what God created them to be.
God still wants us to embrace our gender distinct characteristics.
1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
NTCC Minister B.S., M.A.
Sorry mister ntcc minister. I am not got homosexual tendcies. Could I toss the same accusation to you. I guess a HUGE amount of ladies want to be homosexuals. Since they do not have what YOU consider to be long hair. God did not set a length.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ntccxposed.com/hair/
To bad that you so way off the mark here. Hair is not the only way to tell the difference between a man and a woman. I am not a butch as you might think I am.
I will end here. You have made my blood boil. To accuse someone that they are a HOMO's. Because I don't want hair down to my butt,IT is not biblical. Women in ntcc look hideous. And the public knows,ask a lady if she is stared at?
NTCC Minister asked...
ReplyDelete"Do you struggle with homosexual thoughts?"
Jeff answered...
NTCC Minister: Come on now..
I have to say that was a ridiculous question based on the information that you have. The fact is it would have been a ridiculous question even if she would have given you enough facts to believe that was the case, which incidentally she didn't.
You read my response I would think. I stated that I prefer women with long hair which is the case but I have been around long enough to know that millions and millions of women with short like men and men only.
I have to say NTCC Minister that your statement had the mentality of the NTCC written all over it. I have dated women who had short hair who were fine if you know what I'm saying, and they had no interest in other women. There are women with long hair who according to biblical standards will split hell wide open because they simply lack common decency. They think serving God is all about long hair and they look down on ladies with short hair and the NTCC is full of such women. I've seen it. They are like the pharisees.
Jeff
It was the aversion to being feminine and the topic comingout of no where that lead me to ask. Our society devalues women and particuarly feminine women. I have repeatedly heard women talk how they are not comfortable in a skirt, etc. The trend in society is that lesbianism is skyrocketing. Romans 1 teaches us that is to be expected in a nation that has forgotten God. I only asked because the lady is strictly anonymous. No offense was intended. Why the aversion to that which reflects the feminine gender?
ReplyDeleteNTCC Minister B.S., M.A.
NTCC Minister: I understand I believe as good as ANYONE the direction that our society is heading in. More woman are becoming lesbians and doing it openly. Women are looking more like men and visa versa. By the way they dress, by the way they walk, by the way they talk and certainly by the way they wear their hair. I agree completely.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that it still doesn't mean that we can naturally conclude that a woman who is opposed to wearing long hair is potentially a lesbian. The bad part about that whole subject where the NTCC is concerned is that the NTCC puts entirely too much emphasis on hair and virtually no emphasis on COMMON DECENCY because I have know too many NTCC pastors who had very little or none of it.
Just like I said it is just like the way Jesus felt about the pharisees. The NTCC comes up with all these laws while in the process totally omitting the weightier matters. There are woman who have short, short hair who have way more decency than Tanya Kekel who allows her fellow sisters to come and clean her house because it is considered a privilege. That is manipulation in it's most raw form and it's very worst form.
Jeff
ntcc minister,
ReplyDeleteever try and ride a ride at Six Flags in a skirt? Have you rode a horse in a skirt? Ride a bicycle in a skirt? Walking on a track in a skirt?
I did bring it up out of nowhere. It popped up,so I brought it up. I have no homosexual tendies. I don't have DEAD hair down to my butt. I don't have necessarily short hair. Or as if rw would say a BRILLO pad!
Funny you bring up something like hair,skirts,make-up. I am sure ntcc minister would hammer back that I must be a lesbian. I am a jezzebel wantabe! I want to be a man and wear the pants in the family! HILARIOUS! So stuck in there jargon!
Yes I am ANOn. But you ntcc minister are also ANON as well!
Tanya K. also has no deceny in how she dresses. WOW,she is so modest in her dress. TIGHT knit dresses. Choker scarfs,slinky shoes. Blazers so tight she can not even raise her arms to pretend to praise God. She was only trying to get her arms up high enough. So she twirl her big Diamond ring around. SHOWING OFF! She is so full of modesty. NOT!!
ReplyDeleteWell while we are on this subject:
ReplyDeleteI didn't start this but now and with prayer, "it seems good to the Lord". What? What in the word is, "it seems good to the lord" anyway?
My wife has been told by the wife of an NTCC pastor that it is alright for a woman to wear pants as long as she is exercising. It's not like her husband doesn't know she is wearing the pants because he must. I had an NTCC pastor when I lived in one of the serviceman's homes who's wife wore pants to exercise so that is twice for sure. If they both said it was ok how many other wifes were taught and did the same thing? I'm sure many.
I will say for the millionth time: DOUBLE STANDARD!!!!!!!!
You can't say that it is a categorical sin to do something and then make exceptions to the law to suit your own needs. It is either a sin for a woman to wear pants or it is not and exercising has nothing to do with either option.
Jeff
Anonymous female poster said...
ReplyDelete"I don't have DEAD hair down to my butt."
Jeff said...
Ms. Anonymous: Now in all fairness; you can't expect folks to have no problem with you wearing your hair shorter than NTCC women do, when it is obvious that you have a major problem with the way NTCC women wear their hair.
If you don't wear your hair that way than fine but it is also fine for them to wear their hair all they way down to their butt if they want to. I'm just being real here. You said that you don't have quote "dead" hair down to your butt which is actually a put down. Just think about it for a moment. What if they came on here and said that they don't cut their hair to look like a quote, "man" which would also be a put down.
That is the whole problem with the NTCC. They are way to judgmental based on appearance but that is exactly what you just did is it not? You insulted them by calling their hair "dead" which suggests that is of less value than "living" hair. I've seen women with hair whether it was dead or living or horse hair all the way down to their butt and it looked pretty good and I am a man, the real deal.
I've also seen woman who wore their hair short and they looked pretty good also and I am still a man, the real deal. I am anything but a fan of the NTCC and it's woman for that matter, but if NTCC woman want to wear their hair to the ground than that is their business, and if you want to cut the split ends off and wear your hair shorter than they do than that is also your business.
You saw that I stuck up for you with NTCC Minister but I am an honest broker and as a result I sleep well at night.
Jeff
"Do you struggle with homosexual thoughts?"
ReplyDeleteI realize that the word homophobic is overused and often misapplied these days, but I believe that NTCC does present a genuine case for our examination.
RW was obsessed with homosexuality. He loved preaching about Sodomites and mocking the effeminate from the pulpit. We were taught (despite Paul's declaration to the Corinthians that "such were some of you") that homosexuals were, without exception, reprobates and beyond redemption. At a conference in Myrtle Beach, some ministers were excommunicated for homosexual offenses, with no offers of spiritual help other than the admonition to find a church someplace else. During my time in BS, there was a scandal over in Kekel's dorm (he did not participate, however), where some brothers got sexually aroused while giving one another backrubs. RW called all male students into the downstairs classroom at Forest Avenue. He went through a big melodramatic declaration about how he was looking at us, and seeing a big octopus that already had some in its tentacles. LaRue had a friend from Denver who visited St. Louis once. He was a black guy, and did act quite effeminate. RW gave him both barrels of public ridicule from the pulpit. I guess since he viewed all homosexuals as reprobates, he felt no obligation to reach out to any of them with the gospel.
I went with RW to inspect a printing press that the org ended up buying, and the seller's twentysomethingish son wandered in during the transaction. As soon as we shut the doors of the car to leave, he was asking us if, based on the earring the kid was wearing, we thought he was a homo. That was about the time I started realizing just how out of touch with society this guy really is. Men wearing earrings was so much part of the mainstream by then that to automatically assign them to Sodom would only occur to an extremist. Concerned minister is stuck with the same mentality, misjudging people around him based on superficial appearances. We were conditioned in the org to be suspiciously-minded of anybody who didn't conform in every particular to what we taught and believed. She wears 'dinglebobs?' Hellbound! His hair touches his ears? Sinner! She trimmed her hair? Reprobate! She wears pants? Lesbian! NTCC has a long tradition as the church world's Pharisee of Pharisees.
I have gone back and read over the posts.
ReplyDeleteLet me first apologize to anonmyous for any offense. I was not trying offend but sincerely ask the question. I will withdraw the question since it is not my place.
Let me explain what was influencing my thinking.
1) The aversion for what is commonly accepted as a more feminine practice.
2) The bringing up, though tongue in cheek, of all the women leaving NTCC so the men become homosexuals.
3) The viewing of having sexual relationships with their husband as a task.
As to horse back riding, Six flags, etc. I realize that ladies attire can be limiting at times. This nothing new. They use to make and probably still do side saddles because horses were used as tranportation alot longer than cars have been. And during that time as a rule women did not wear pants. As rides, a decent A-skirt will allow you the flexibility to go on most. I have observe Mennonite women at theme parks enjoying the rides.
We should not use personal convenience as a reason to dispense with biblical principle. As Christians we should base our decisions not on the question "what is wrong with this" but "am I glorifying God in this".
NTCC Minister B.S., M.A.
i think you have that statement slightly skewed...should it not read
ReplyDelete"We should not use personal conviction as a means to derive biblical doctrine" ????
t
Vic said...
ReplyDelete"Concerned minister is stuck with the same mentality, misjudging people around him based on superficial appearances."
What are you referring to Vic? Maybe you got NTCC Minister B.S., M.A. and me mixed up again?
-concerned minister NTCC
ntcc minister,
ReplyDeletethere are already Homosexuals in your mist as ntcc minister's.
So taking away the women. it would bring more out of the wood work. Rw wants to be the Pope.
Jeff,
ReplyDeletethose women do not have a choice. As you stated. It is made to sound like it is a sin. So you HAVE to have hair that is ugle,out of style. If it was a CHOICE. then that would be a different matter.
Wait and see. MK will change that so called sin. And women will be getting there hair cut. So fast! Before the rule gets changed back.
Could care less if you take up for ntcc minister. The hair is dead. Ask any hair stylist. So that glory that they got down to there butt is dead hair. Again,it is not there choice in ntcc to have hair down to there butt.
Sir,if you would. But you won't. Put on a skirt. You try riding side saddle. You get on a rollercoaster in a skirt. Yes,it can be done. It is not biblical that I can not wear femine cut pants. Since I am more modest in my dress then Tanya has ever been. She loves to entice the men in ntcc. Causing others to sin is what she is good at.
ReplyDeleteThere is even kids while in ntcc would go swimming fully clothed. Sure MK has changed that. Since his son can wear shorts to play basketball.
Water ride's also at those same parks. Try getting wet and then walking around a park,soaking wet. Look so stupid.
I just went to a park without ntcc bondage they put women in. So much more fun and enjoyable.
"What are you referring to Vic? Maybe you got NTCC Minister B.S., M.A. and me mixed up again?"
ReplyDeleteOops, I did. Sorry.
It would be so much easier to keep track of people if they would just sign their names. It would give them more credibility, also.
"We should not use personal convenience as a reason to dispense with biblical principle."
ReplyDeleteThere is no biblical principle involved here; it's a case of personal principle masquerading as doctrine.
Side saddles--you have GOT to be kidding! Hey, I think that "Under My Thumb" by the Stones should be adopted as the NTCC theme song.
Vic Johanson said...
ReplyDelete"Under My Thumb" by the Stones...
It's down to mk
The difference in the clothes his son wears
Down to mk, the change has come,
Their under his thumb.
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteDo you believe God has snatched the candlestick from NTCC according to the book of Revelation? Could you start a new thread on this topic?
Im not so sure NTCC would qualify to have a 'candle'....are they really a legitimate church?
ReplyDeletei definately do not believe they are a cult, though they are "cultic"
but are they really a legitimate church?
lets look at it:
1. the founder and leader has always been a charlatan and con artist who is just stealing money for himself
2. they do not hold to the true gospel taught by Paul and would have been considered "bewitched" by the great Apostle (Paul, not Davis)
3. The leaders only serve themselves- this does not qualify as true Christianity
4. Essentially NTCC has only used the name of Christ to manipulate and extort the people who have their consciences cleansed and "virginized" by the power of Jesus... though they are preaching Jesus, they are preaching a different gospel and i do not think they would even qualify as a legitimate church in the eyes of Jesus.
t
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteJeff,
Do you believe God has snatched the candlestick from NTCC according to the book of Revelation? Could you start a new thread on this topic?
Jeff said...
It's not a bad topic idea at all. The only problem is, I pretty much agree with t? The question is did they ever have a candlestick? When I say they I mean the NTCC leadership. Scandal surrounds the NTCC leadership from the very beginning of the NTCCs inception. Ashmore, and Olson have been RWD enablers all along. Ashmore is kind of a funny character and frankly I don't know much about the guy other than the fact that I know he is a real charismatic pentecostal preacher. That raises questions in itself.
Olson on the other hand has been privy to RWDs scandals from the beginning. He is certainly a cover up artist and in my opinion, not a very good one, but he has managed to fool a good many people. Kekel sort of came after the fact and it is evident that he has been quite the greedy compromiser all along. Being that the NTCC revolves around those three or four, and as t quite effectively stated, the question becomes whether or not the candlestick has been present with that crew from the git go?
That question becomes the paradox surrounding starting such a thread?
Jeff
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteI asked the candlestick question because what I was reflecting on NTCC preaching through out the years.
I remember when Princess Di died, the next day the preacher spent almost the whole service talking about what a filthy sinner she was! I thought to myself, he took a 2min. statement and made a 45min service out of it.
I personally believe the reason that some of the preachers preach the way they do because they have allowed themselves to become uninspired and uncreative. How hard is it to take what someone spoke to you behind closed doors, cower behind a pulpit, and preach their personal business. How much Holy Spirit unction does that take? Probably not a whole lot if any at all.
However some one who reads, fasts, prays for God to give them a new relevant message daily...probably has a different walk than the above mentioned.
So the question is was NTCC ever like scenario #2 or did God take their candlestick?
Jeff said...
ReplyDeleteWho knows? I have my theories but that is all they are, so I can't speak for God or myself other than what I have already written concerning such a topic.