NTCC Minister: I posted your message two threads back so it would coincide and correspond with the previous statements on that particular thread.
I didn't delete your message, I just moved it. I really don't want this fear topic to continue across each thread. You are entitled to your point which is why I reposted it, but I don't want that one particular topic to take total control of this blog because of course there are others who participate.
More about Giraffe's. We just took the kids to the Zoo. Great Zoo. The Giraffe's were so close. Could almost reach out and touch them. Was awesome! Making Memories! What are folks doing in ntcc doing? Do they even try and make memories with there kids? Or just shuffle them from church event to church event. Make them stay in children ministry until past 9 PM when a minister starts to ramble! Go to babysitters for so called prayer meetings. Do you spend quality time with your kids?
When I look back on how my time was stolen, yes stolen, I see how although I was only 1 day's drive from home, I only visited once. When my relatives came to visit all I could think of was hair and pants on the women! My mind was not my own! I really said some things I now regret.
But you're right- we could not have much "fun". We did not enjoy life- we saw it all through their "foggy glasses". They are very critical of people, not trusting them at all! They have a spy network that's faster than anything!
I really "feel" for those yet trapped within the borg. I thought I had a Biblical education- when I got out I was so embarrassed at what I did not know! They could not teach it- for they were riding "hobby horses" that they used to speak against at one time.
It's just my opinion, But I really think that the days of NTCC are truly numbered. Dwindling attendance, Churches being closed down left and right. I know that the Top Brass will make their Money, But I really think that the days of the Money Cow are numbered.
My Heart and sympathy's go out to the average person, Many of them who truly are Christians and love God.
I'm planning a visit up to the State of Washington next month and have thought about just anonymously going in to Church service and just see what happens.
Jeff I hope you don't mind.. But I've had some people from NTCC threatening me and posting over on my blog... I left them a nice little note on my blog now I am going to share it here. FYI NTCCers your moronic posts were all deleted and now you can't comment at all.. HOW DO YOU LIKE ME NOW???
Angie said....Because people within NTCC have decided to take aim at me (since I post Jeffs blog) and start posting rude things on my blog....I have shut off the ability for people to leave comments. My blog is in no way affiliated with NTCC. Had I wanted to have a blog like Jeff's I would have made one. But I don't. My blog is just supposed to be for me to post random thoughts, feelings, etc. This is not a blog to bash NTCC but you are NOT making yourself look good by posting rude comments on my blog. Lucky for you I have deleted them. But I WILL NOT put up with it. DO NOT think you can come to my blog and harass me because I WILL NOT allow it. SIMPLE AS THAT!
When you childish people grow up and stop attacking those who decide to stand up for themselves by posting their experiences and warning others about NTCC. And then go to our personal blogs and attack us... Then I will allow comments again on my blog. Until then you can find someone else to tear apart. And treat like crap. Don't even think I will put up with it because I won't. I am not an exer you want to mess with. I will not be bullied. And I will fight back. Try me if you must. But I am warning you now. If you attack me your playing with fire! STAY OFF MY BLOG IT IS NOT A PLACE FOR YOU WHO ARE GOING TO ATTACK ME TO POST. IF YOU WANT TO ATTACK SOMEONE GO ATTACK KEKEL OR DAVIS AND ASK THEM WHY YOUR LIFE IS SO CRAPPY, WHY YOU FEEL SO BAD ABOUT YOURSELF THAT YOU HAVE TO GO AFTER THOSE OF US WHO HAVE MADE IT OUT OF NTCC AND HAVE OUR LIVES BACK. Don't attack us because you are jealous. It isn't our fault your life sucks!
Again my blog is NOT for you NTCCers to post on. You are not welcome there and you are not allowed to post there if you are going to be rude. If you don't like it tough! Jeff's blog is where you need to post if you have a problem.
AGAIN MY BLOG IS NOT AFFILIATED WITH NTCC OR EXNTCCERS! Don't even think for a minute when I allow posting again that I am going to make it easy for you to post.
Compare me to Kekel (those of you who complain that he sensors his blog) all you want. But just remember one thing. My Blog is not in support of NTCC and it is not against NTCC. It is just a place for ME to post MY feelings, EXPERIENCES, ETC. I will not allow you to come on my blog and treat me like a second class citizen because you do not agree with what I am saying if you don't like it too bad! GO complain to GOD because I really do NOT CARE!
ALSO MY BLOG IS A PLACE FOR MY FAMILY TO BE ABLE TO SEE WHAT IS GOING ON.. YOU POSTING RUDE COMMENTS ON MY BLOG IS NOT COOL. YOU NOT ONLY TICKED ME OFF BUT YOU TICKED OFF MY FAMILY MEMBERS. Your lucky you did not say those comments to my face because I can tell you what I got family members that want your blood right now. It's all I can do to calm them down. I didn't even know I had the rude comments on my blog until my COUSIN called me! How RUDE and VERY IMMATURE OF YOU! Call yourselves christians and then you go attacking people like that.. NTCCers that are defending NTCC...grow up! Be the adult you supposidly claim to be!
Maybe, just maybe he saw the error of Davis' ways and is trying to change what he thinks does not work for a 21ST Century Church.
Don't get me wrong, I am not justifiying what he does, but the guy IS smart in what he does. He appeases to the masses so that he may win over a few. I can see through the smoke and mirrors.
Mike may actually think that he is justified in what he does, in or out of church and that he is actually right.
I came to this conclusion while doing some rational thinking the other day, as a leader you have to look at all sides of a situation prior to making a decison.
I notice that it is easy to get caught up and being cynical with it all, but, make no mistake. Mike Kekel needs your prayers.
I think he wants to change NTCC for what he believes is the better. Again, I do not condone what he does, just a little surprised that Davis has allowed him to do what he has already done with the Org.
So True. He needs them whether he thinks he does or not.
Charles Spurgeon once made the comment that the greatest thing that a person could ever do for him was to Pray for him.
Something that has been on my Heart has been the Persecuted Church. I read a magazine called "The Voice of the Martyrs". The Gentleman who started that Magazine was in and out of Romanian Prisons for 14 years. At one stretch he was in solitary confinement for 3 years underground in shackles in Darkness so great that his eyes could not adjust to it and with no Human companionship. Something that he said that has stayed with me and that is....
Faith that can be destroyed is not Faith.
That just blows me away. I've wondered many,many times if I have what it takes. Maybe I'll never know this side of Heaven, But, Then again.....Only God knows.
Bro Johnson, I don't believe MK is seeing the errors of his way. He went right along with it all. But on the side he has been listening to country music,going to Bluegrass festivals and who knows what else. He is only know feeling brave enough to do it out in the open.
Members still stuck in ntcc are lapping it up. tired of there ho-hum live's. Doing NOTHING but door knocking. What a life. Now MIke has made it Ok for kids to play sports. It is now Ok to listen to Country music. It is Ok to get DVD's to watch movie's.
No,he has not seen the light. He is seeing rw getting old. And he can get away with getting his way and Tanya's way. Sure this is how she has wanted it for sometime!
NTCCers, and NTCC's ruling families, point toward other churches and say:
"Look at other churches, we are not like them."
Then they get uncomfortable (predictably, and right on schedule) from the light of their own testimony being shined too long upon them, so they point toward other churches and say:
I'm sorry to hear about all of the Problems that you have been having on your Blogsite with the NTCC Clan.
I don't know. Maybe they feel that because you are a Woman that you would make an easy target. I hope that you won't keep your comments section down for long but I understand where you are coming from.
What a bunch of Bullies. Just like a pack of wild Dogs or something. Can't do it on this Blogsite so they go for what they consider to be an easy target.
Let's see, the year was 1973, RW comes to preach in Tillicum. Subject matter- somebody is using too much toilet paper when they wipe- its abusing the Lord's house and resources. The world is dying and going to hell. Do they go door to door then and win them? Noooo. Do they preach on base or where the lost gather? Noooo. On the strre corners? Noooo! What is going on? Recruiting for Bible School to build an organization. "If you love God you would answer God's call and go to Bible School." Let's see... all other churches are compromised now. The PCOG has gone worldly. God's gonna raise up some who will never "compromise". There will never be any "politics" in NTCG. From the East, West, North and South, they will come.
Who did RW win to the Lord? Oh yeah- Sister Mitchell's husband was his project. He guaranteed that he was going to be "his buddy so close that he would have to accept Christ". Or was it soon-to-be Sis Apolinaro's future- to be ex? Oh yeah- that didn't pan out either. But the young kids in their 20's could be whipped into shape, yes! Intimidate by long harangues of speech and bellow blasts on the pulpit- oh yes, that's an anointing! Now that we've passed into our 50's we have maturity and can spot manipulation and the one behind the curtain who is just a man- called by God like we are! We are God's anointed- yet he "touched" us. Whazzup wit dat?
Hey Jeff, I'm back from vacation we had a wonderful time. I took the family water skiing what a blast. I took my son fishing and we caught a bunch of rainbow trout. I'm thankful I have enough money to take my family on vacations. I'll admit I had to work some long hours at my shop but it paid off. It doesn't hurt anyone to work a little overtime.
I was at a National Cemetary this evening, scouting out a place that I will be in charge of rendering full military honors for a fallen LTC.
I recalled in conversations past that RW Davis bought a cemetary plot just for him, I believe it was around 20,000 dollars, which is what Kekel pays per year for Grant to attend school.
How can the poor, scraping by NTCC on fire for God preacher afford a $20,000 funeral lot?
There is hope! If you were in the military at one point in time and were honorably discharged, you are entitled to FULL military honors for free at a cemetary of your choice.
I highly advised you military veterans contact the local Fort national cemetary and see how much it will cost to be buried.
National cemetarys are actually very beautiful and are generally kept very well and have a high upkeep.
The one I saw near Fort Jackson was a National Cemetary. It was a beautiful setting, over open skies and very peaceful.
One thing is for certain: NTCC preachers, NTCC is NOT going to pay for your funeral. Starting preparing now!!!
Hey L. Travis: I'm glad you had a great time. You are right. It doesn't hurt anyone to work some overtime. At least not unless you are in the NTCC. You will often get blasted across the pulpit. The NTCC doesn't mind if you work overtime for them. It's always been that way with few exceptions.
All the same, I'm glad you had a great time. My family and I went to a real nice lake in northern Georgia and stayed in a resort motel. It was a nice change. We spent a bunch of money quite quickly but it was worth it. It's nice to get away and show the kids a good time. That's something we didn't do much of while in the NTCC. I'll be doing more of it now.
Al (the barber at NTCC's Institute/College/Seminary) has been Pastor Davis most recent project for about the last 20 years. We are all given strict instructions not to 'soul win' Al, as Pastor Davis didn't want us to mess up all the 'work' he had put into him.
Both Mike K and Tanya K. are chamelons. They will change to whatever setting that is going on. They will talk out the side's of there mouth. And then say something totally different to another person. How they never get caught is amazing. Folks know something is fishy,but are to afraid to say anything. Or else,THERE IS THE DOOR!
MMMM. Mike K. is like Obama. He wants to CHANGE ntcc. All he is doing is trying to cover up all the hurt ntcc has caused,the horrible past. Thankfully we are here. And he is not going to get away with trying to brush it all under the rug as if it never happened. It did,and the world will now.
Folks coming on here to check out what ntcc is all about. If your in the military or a civilian. FLEE!!! And NEVER WALK THROUGH THE DOORS OF A ntcc BuILDING!! Once you get in. Oh look there so nice,they love and care about me. All just a farse and for show! Once your in,then the rules start,you will start dressing different,styling your hair after the minister and his wife. Stop listening to "wordly music" All though Mike K. listens to "worldly music". You will cut off ties to your family,or they are tense.
Go find another Church. One that is not FAKE and a CULT!!!
rw works with ONE person for 20 years. And FAILS. So when he gets up and screams. So who have you won to the Lord. Right back at you big guy! So if he has not won anyone to the lord,in 20 years. he is a FAILURE and not a LEADER!
"Oh look there so nice,they love and care about me. All just a farse and for show!"
Yes, Yes. They do like to "Love Bomb" people who come through the doors. Some of it may be the fact that there are not that many "Newbies" coming in because of the Internet and Blogsites where people can now freely access and make up their own minds about them.
It will be interesting to see what the future holds for NTCC. The Internet is their worst nightmare. I feel quite certain that they would love to wave a wand and make it all go away. Peace to all.
You know I just remember something about soul-winning. The pastor of this particular church would always use the graham church as the model of everything that was perfect, and every other day in his preaching he would use the "God has given us a beautiful church with over 1000 people every sunday morning" but he continued to say the same thing year after year and he probably is sayng this now, his comment never changed. He probably is saying this but if God was moving so mightily how can't they have more? One time somebody from graham stopped by and the pastor asked him how many people or teams go out and soul-win and he said that well over 30 teams! If you can have so many people go out like that and you don't see people get in there is something wrong with the leader, that is what I heard rwd teach in the conferences I was in. Why can he blast the pastors that are out there wasting their lives away paying for the org. churches when kekel hasn't really brought that much harvest either? It is sad when I would see so many pastors being told that they are not saved, or doing what god told them to do, that they were liars because they haven't won that city they were in for God. While these pastors would give every single cent to pay for the mortgage and still pay their tithe and escrow. It just doesn't make sense to me how would they pay, pay, pay to belong to an organization and when everything is set and done the org doesn't give a rats tail when these pastors would be in need. Why can people be so blinded?
My prayer everyday is to pray for these pastors and their wives to have clarity of mind and see that they are living a lie and leave.
LOL! Probably why rw bashed,preached against the computer and the sinful internet. We were ALL going on the internet to gamble or look at porn. If we needed to look up some information. Then we should just go get a book and read. Folks now,read entire books on-line! He tried to squelch it for many years. Once they knew that they could not stop it! They put up a LAME web site. No Real information on the site. Oh ,look we are up with the time's. we have a web site,we blog. More Cover-Up!
If you are going into a ntcc blding. these days. It is not the real deal. Sports for kids,country music,watching movie's,going on vacations. I predict it will last for a short time. then back to there evil,controlling ways. Do not be tricked!
I predict it will last for a short time. then back to there evil,controlling ways. Do not be tricked!
Jeff said...
I think you might be wrong on that one CM. I truly believe that the changing is really getting ready to start. We are just seeing the ground work being laid by K&K. Kinson and Kekel are the future.
Kekel and Kinson are just waiting for RWD to get out of the way altogether, ie die. When that happens, the NTCC will really change. Olson is not an issue. He will follow anyone. Olson is a follower not a leader. Olson would follow Grant Kekel if it came down to it. I am just interested to see if someone with some backbone stands up and preaches against K&K. Maybe Ashmore? He is a big showman so I doubt it. Jones? He is a yes man so I doubt it also. Johnson? He is too old and his family is too involved.
The NTCC is heading mainstream for sure. They are basically already there other than a few dresses and some long hair and no beards for ministers. The women have been dabbling around with jewelry in the form of broaches, extra engagement rings, serious designer watches, and shoes and clothing with every color of gem stone imaginable.
Mayers told my wife in a women's bible study that jewelry wasn't jewelry unless it was worn on the "skin". He also said that it had to be real gold and real gems. He said the fake stuff in broaches was not considered jewelry and therefor permissible to wear. He said broaches weren't jewelry because they were worn on the clothing. What a joke. Jewelry is jewelry and I don't care where you wear it. Ladies with two engagement rings who wear both at the same time? White nail polish can be worn now on the fingers and toes. Pants can be worn by women as long as they are exercising. A pastors wife told my wife that. I had two NTCC pastors who's wives wore pants to exercise.
K&K are basically sick of sneaking around so if they can get everyone else on board with their agenda, they won't have to worry about being called hypocrites anymore. Not only that it will ease their conscience. No CM. The NTCC has already gone past the point of no return. I'm sure about that. The old timers that remain will die hypocrites who perpetuated a double standard.
If I had to choose between religious hypocrite or outright sinner, I would rather die an outright sinner for sure. If we are going to be judged by God I wouldn't want to stand before God having played games with him and his sheep. If nothing else the NTCC just needs to come clean and admit to the double standard and claim that RWD was wrong all along.
Hey can someone explain why NTCCers never take vacations? Is it not allowed? No money to pay for it? combo of both?
Jeff said...
That used to be the case, at least as far as we knew. It's not that way anymore. Ministers are taking vacations now. They post pictures of their trips on the internet. The wife of one minister posted pictures of her at a college football game just last football season. There were pictures of another minister and his wife at Disney world. These ministers are getting wise to the NTCC trickery and many of them are simply doing their own thing now. Haunted houses, bowling, sporting events, Disney. There are more than one doing these kinds of things for sure. I know of four and I am not even in the NTCC any longer. For what ever reason these folks like to post pictures of their fun trips and events on the internet.
For that matter Sister Davis told the other sisters of a time where she and Tanya went traveling to keep up with Grant on a particular occasion. I think they said they went to Canada to catch up with Grant on some kind of field trip.
Sister Davis told of that trip during fellowship while in the Columbus Ga serviceman's home. If there are still NTCC folks who aren't going on vacations they are the ones loosing out because there are plenty who are and well they should be.
I agree, NTCC has changed, and there will be no turning back.
This is a good thing though. All the 'old timers' (I consider anyone who has been in NTCC over 5 years to be an 'old timer', since there is such a high turnover rate) now have a 'valid' reason to leave...NTCC has 'compromised'.
Hopefully they are not too old to reverse the decades of deprivation.
Soon NTCC will become completely like every other church they aggressively preached against for the last 40 years. The sooner Pastor Davis dies, the quicker this will happen. The new folks will have it better.
K & K (Rev. Kekel and Rev. Kinson) can do the same thing to Pastor Davis (after he is dead) that Pastor Davis did to Pop after he died...ever so subtly slander Pop's memory.
They can act as if they tolerated Pastor Davis 'ways' because he was old, and set in his ways, and he was there first, etc. Blaming everything on the dead guy happens quite often. This is why it was so important to get all this information out about NTCC before Pastor Davis dies.
I would not be surprised if Rev. Ashmore is quietly seething at the way things are turning out...he has been so loyal, and has been reaching for the brass ring for so many years.
NTCC will shrink some more. Five years ago there was well over 100 'soul winning' teams which went out each Saturday from Graham, ten years ago graduating classes were about 60 strong.
Maybe they can close up shop. What's to stop this? The ruling families already have their 'nest egg'. All that needs happen for NTCC to cease to exist is for the board to decide this (the membership is never consulted, plus read the by-laws), and liquidate everything into other non-profits.
Grant can have Pastor Davis' home as a 'starter' home. He can stay there when he is on break from Yale University.
Yep, Pretty much what I've been saying. Of course they are not going to admit to anything(We are winning....Right?) But I truly believe that they are in the fight for their lives as far as the Church goes. Just do the math. The numbers just don't match with what they are saying and you can only beat the church members for so long and then resentment sets in. Been there,Done that, Got the T-shirt to prove it. Later
"Al (the barber at NTCC's Institute/College/Seminary) has been Pastor Davis most recent project for about the last 20 years. We are all given strict instructions not to 'soul win' Al, as Pastor Davis didn't want us to mess up all the 'work' he had put into him.
Al hasn't panned out either."
...nor did Lou Ricketts, Al's precursor back in St. Louis. He died an unbeliever, according to RW. I never could discover anyone the "apostle" personally converted, definitely not during the time I was around.
"K & K (Rev. Kekel and Rev. Kinson) can do the same thing to Pastor Davis (after he is dead) that Pastor Davis did to Pop after he died...ever so subtly slander Pop's memory."
They're not even waiting until he's dead to flaunt their disdain for his stodgier ways. They are tired of waiting for some degree of normality, and they know that their agenda is popular with the masses. RW is 80 and supposedly retired from active ministry, and he knows that K&K have the resources and talent to bust loose and do better on their own if he gets too heavy handed about their compromising ways. He's riding off into the sunset with a fat bank account, and they're getting ready to get even richer than he is, once they get rid of all the weirdness that drives people off.
It's a good development for the peoples' sake, but quite cynical in truth. Until there is some acknowledgment by these new leaders (because it will never come from RW) of the tremendous damage NTCC has done to people over many years, they will demonstrate that the change is only cosmetic. And even should they do so, it won't remove their guilt for being complicit in abusing the sheep.
I was chatting(Via e-mail) with a friend that is still in ntcc. She had this question. Why if we are disssatified with ntcc. Why not just leave and let bygone's be bygone's. Instead of the trash and hate talk. That is what she considered it.Not me. I see it as folks finally have a voice. Where rw squeleched our voice's. With his stern looks,intimidation,fear,control. For me as a female. I am getting my voice back and feeling like a equal to men. And not below them. As if I should walk five steps behind the man and make sure my head was lower then his!!! NO JOKE!
This friend,does not understand that some of us. Do not want others to fall into ntcc trap. Become insnared and stuck for life. Or give up way to many years to a SCAM!
if ntcc was such a great move of God, why would God deliver me from it?
as said before people confuse God with the location instead of His Word. Yes they preach the Bible and God will bless because of His Word, not because of NTCC.
Did not Paul say some preach Christ of envy and strife ? Yet He rejoices that the word is preached.
Also, how can it be trash and hate talk when it is the truth ? How come no one called it trash and hate talk when Jesus pointed out hypocrisies and evil intentions ?
Why is it hate talk when Kekel hides and lies and preaches against things that he himself is doing ?
Why is it trash talk when Rev. Davis allows this to go on because of family instead of standing up to what he believes is truth and not allow the "compromise" to go on ?
will someone in NTCC please answer these questions ?
How is it not hypocrisy when it is preached DVDS and watching movies will send one to hell as well as shows one is not right with God and behindthe curtain they are doing these things ?
What doublespeak and lies has ntcc fed ya'll to where you accept what they said were only policies ?
"Hey, since when are kids up for discussion... shall we talk about yours? Use some decency why don't you"
Nobody's criticizing Grant at all. But folks are interested in the contrast between the upper crust life he's been handed and the struggles endured by the children of the proletariat. You can bet they'll try to keep his college plans a big secret, but one thing is nearly certain--his alma mater won't be NTCC.
"Why not just leave and let bygone's be bygone's. Instead of the trash and hate talk."
Jeff said...
Here is what gets me. When we write and talk about the NTCCs hypocrisy and double standards (which are both sin), many NTCC folks call it "hate talk". They don't call it hate talk when their comrades smear the name of virtually everyone who leaves the NTCC. NTCC folks just call that exposing their sin. NTCC folks don't call it hate when an NTCC pastor puts their church members personal business out across the pulpit and sometimes directly in front of a bunch of people but once again, NTCC folks don't seem to have a problem with that either.
They don't call it hate when Ashmore and half the other NTCC ministers talk about every church in the nation but when their church gets talked about they call it hate. I will tell you about hate! I "HATE" the NTCC's double standards!
The real reason so many NTCC folks refer to what we are doing as hate is because now, it is directed at them for a change, and they don't like it! It's not hate. We are simply exposing the NTCC just like the NTCC has been attempting to expose everyone in the whole entire world other then themselves. I have heard many, many NTCC ministers talk about every single Christian denomination imaginable but once again, they never manage to take a good look at themselves. NTCC ministers preach at everybody in the whole world and we are preaching at them, plain and simple. And guess what; they don't like it. Get a dose of your own medicine you bunch of hypocrites.
Hey, since when are kids up for discussion... shall we talk about yours? Use some decency why don't you.
Jeff said...
What child of an NTCC family hasn't been the topic of discussion? I've heard RWD talk about folks children and you didn't tell him that he lacked decency. When a young NTCC adult decided not to go to the NTCCs school of rules, they would regularly get talked about and the parents would get talked about also. The NTCC leadership has always openly considered the parents a failure, if their child didn't go the NTCCs school of rules. I have heard such subjects spoke of during conference openly and across the pulpit.
So why do we lack decency, you hypocrite? Just because we are interested in seeing what Grant Kekel is going to do? RWD has talked about many other NTCC children and questioned whether or not they were going to attend the NTCCs school, so why should we be any different? Oh, it's ok for NTCC ministers and RWD to talk about folks kids, but it's not ok for us to do the same? Is this yet another one of NTCCs double standards / do as I say but not as I do? NO DOUBT. All we are doing is what the NTCC has been doing all along and you can't deny it. We are just using a different platform. The only problem the NTCC has is that they can't shut us up any longer and they hate that they have lost control.
Hey, since when are kids up for discussion... shall we talk about yours? Use some decency why don't you
Grant is not a kid, he is 17 - 18 years old, having his education paid for by NTCC tithe payers.
Sorry, dude, he is fair game. Any Preacher that spends 20,000 K of tithe payer tithes and offerings to send his son to go to a Private school to wear tight briches to play football which Davis clearly stated was sin opens himself up to ridicule.
You can talk about my kids all you want. It does not bother me, nor do I care, I know I am a good father to my kids, and they know that I love them all the same. I am paying anything and everything to get them the best education possible. I cannot afford 20,000, that is 2 followed by FOUR ZEROS after it, but I give the best I can. Also, they go to a Public School and I pay for them to go to summer enrichment programs.
My kids already have been taught how to pray, we have home service every so often. My kids can pray prayers that would put YOU, all seeing, all knowing concerned minister, to shame.
And they are only 6, 4, and 3 years old.
From the mouths of babes (my children) Jesus has perfect praise.
Well, I'll watch and wait and see what happens after Grant Graduates from High School. But, If he doesn't go to Seminary at NTCC my question will be this.....
Why is NTCC Seminary good enough for everyone else but Grant?
grant has seen / experienced a different christianity from the rest of us. so if he does attend the ntcc seminary, they are going to have to make it different.
makes me think now what did kekel tell grant when grant was in those services preaching against video games, dvd's, movies and such .
I would say Mike K. was telling Grant,those policies are just for the minister's. Not you son. Or that is just for the minister's kids not you. As if Grant is so much more special then my child or anyone else's child. Same with the so called policies that are just for minister's. They are no different then the church members. We all go to Heaven the same way. So why live by different rules while here on Earth.
I remember being Preached at, Talked to, and everything else when I was in St.Louis for not going to Bible School. I knew that just because everyone else felt called to go to Bible School didn't mean I felt called. But you couldn't tell that to them, though. I feel quite certain that Grant probably won't feel any pressure if he decides NOT to go to Bible School.
The question is, how many people in the NTCC have ever been called to preach? Any? I wonder if any people in the NTCC have ever actually heard God speak? The real deal. Or a burning bush for example or did they just simply feel "compelled". I feel compelled to do a lot of things but it is not God.
NTCC folks get so spiritual. Ha! You ask them how they know they were "called" and their answer is almost always, "well the devil wouldn't put such a desire in your heart so it must be God". Well Jeff Collins is saying that "I'm not so certain". With as much damage as all these NTCC ministers have done it seems likely that the devil put his hand in the cookie jar at some point in time. The question is was it right from the beginning?
Called to preach? I would imagine the devil would have all kinds of fun when so many of these unwise NTCC ministers run so many folks away from God with all their unwise ranting and raving. Especially when they get up behind the pulpit and talk about everything but God. I remember Jones deciding to throw politics into his message one evening in Columbus. I guess God wasn't interest in winning many Democrats that particular evening because Jones would have certainly ran them all off.
I've heard Mayers preach about cats and life insurance. I heard another NTCC minister preach about reasons that we shouldn't love "Animals" and that people who are animal lovers are nuts. Called to preach? I have my doubts for sure. The question isn't whether or not Grant is called to preach; the question is if any NTCC ministers have ever been genuinely called to preach?
I'm not taking about a "feeling". I'm talking about the real deal. I'm talking about an experience like Paul had. Bright light, burning bushes, a loud voice, a real vision, an angelic appearance like the ones we read about in the bible. I'm not talking about feelings or emotions.
You know I post these questions to generate real thought. The kind of though that would have prevented many of use from buying off on the NTCCs agenda before we spent so many years with an org that we now feel is quite corrupt.
You see this is what happens. The NTCC teaches their people very early that "when" anything negative about the NTCC crosses your mind, (which it will) that those thoughts come from none other than the devil. They train their people not to even consider anything negative concerning the NTCC.
So what happens? We never gave questions such as the ones I posted any consideration at all because the NTCC leaders had manipulatively trained us so well. They are only copying what they've heard done by RWD, the master manipulator. That my friend is "exactly" how a "CULT" trains their people. To under no circumstances "ever" think anything bad about the organization / cult. And that is exactly why, (no matter how Kekel and Kinson transform the NTCC) it will always remain a cult. Because few if any of these NTCC ministers promote objective thinking.
They (the NTCC leadership) thoroughly suppress any negative thoughts about their church. Well folks, the NTCC had temporarily kidnapped my brain, but it escaped from it captors and now it is free to think logically and rationally once again.
Don't let the NTCC completely shut down your brain folks because they have certainly shut down the brains of at least 90% of their ministers and church members. The other estimated, revolving 10% wind up leaving the NTCC.
What does Timothy have to do with NTCC ministers? If Timothy was genuinely called to preach does that guarantee that NTCC folks were called? Of course not! So your question had no relevance.
This blog isn't about Timothy. It's about the NTCC, and I strongly suggest that a whole bunch of NTCC ministers never heard God do so much as tell them to go the the NTCC at all, say no less preach.
Hey, I will take someones word for it. I'm asking any NTCC minister to testify that they heard an audible voice or saw a burning bush, or saw an angel or something tangible at all. Are there any takers, or did all of you simply get a good "feeling" about preaching, that you attributed to coming from God?
It's not wrong to "think" NTCC ministers. Don't get convicted, it's all right. You won't get struck down by a bolt of lightning. It's ok to think, I promise. Questions are ok. Questions are "good" not "bad". Trust me, you can actually answer questions. Big bad Kekel is not listening, it's ok.
Now concentrate, burning bush, loud voice, angelic being, dew on the fleece but not the ground. Did any of those things happen or did the NTCC convince you that you were called with no tangible evidence from God.
I think your statistics are in accurate. The attrition rate is higher than 10%. That would seem low for any church group.
Jeff said...
The key word that you missed NTCC minister was, "revolving". The NTCC has a pretty good body of faithfuls that probably on any given day make up "about", 90% of all people in church. Either way, it doesn't matter. You understood my point.
As an old timer, I remember that the pk's were considered property of ntcc and if they left to pursue their own agenda, like going to college or other thing like that, then it was said that they were "running from God" I was in a service where this thing was preached. "why would these pk's go on and try to get education and try to better themselves? It was just of the devil because when they go out of the security of ntcc they for sure want the world and the devil would just so mess up their minds with all that junk that is taught in the schools they would lose up with God." I wonder if this type of sentiment is going on in the ntcc now with the old timers that are still in. I wonder if these old timers want to change their ways for the sake of continuing with ntcc? I've once heard a wife of a board member disparage the son of pastor who wanted to go to bible school and then decided to get married and then he had a child and couldn't go, then he was preparing to go again and the wife got pregnant again, so the last time I found out he, this pk, was just attending his father's church, but the thing was that this young man was just "running from the call of God" that is what this board member's wife said about him. I wonder if this same label would be put on grant when he goes on to college.
You're right. My husband, before we left NTCC, vehemently rejected my desire for our daughter to attend college or some kind of trade school after high school. His plan for her was to go to NTCS and get a preacher brother for a husband. That was his sum total for her future plans. He felt that her going to a seculiar school was tantamount to giving her to the devil. Needless to say, this was one of our biggest disagreements while in NTCC. Understand that I too desire a wholesome life for our daughter and would be delighted to see her attend a Christian college that happens to offer a real degree that can be used for real employment. NTCS was and has always been a joke to me. My point is that my husband somewhere along the line had bought into the notion that seculiar schools were of the devil and NTCS was the only way to go.
You'd better believe that everyone in and out of NTCC is waiting with baited breath to know of Grant's post high school plans. They're just too afraid to ask. Well the moment should be now or soon since most colleges begin their Fall semester shortly.
BTW. Nice diversion tactic on accusing Jeff of indecency by bringing up a kid (Grant Kekel). Didn't work. Better luck next time. Now back to the question. What is Grant Kekel going to do?. Inquiring minds want to know where their tithes are going.
I received my 'call' to preach about 5 years before I ever started attending (or heard of) NTCC.
It was not via an audible voice, burning bush, etc. It was a voice in my head telling me, "I want you to preach." Don't ask me to explain how I new it was God, I just knew. This was the first, and last, time I ever heard these instructions, but why do I need to be told twice?
I had no desire to preach before this incident, and none for a while after this. But, I knew what God wanted me to do, so started moving in that direction. No one had ever put a 'bug' in my ear. The desire has come and gone over the past 25 years (currently the desire is there, and getting stronger) but the instruction has always remained, and I preach regardless of how I 'feel'.
So, I started preaching, but wanted a formal 'preachers' education, so I also started also looking for a Bible College. The ones I looked at were either too expensive for me at the time, and/or I did not agree with their doctrine.
NTCC's Bible College fit the bill...cheap, and I agreed with their doctrine. Although, I did not know anything about accreditation at the time.
I am still 'called' to preach, but I am also 'called' to take care of my family. NTCC would not allow me to do the latter, but I still get to do the former when the opportunity presents itself.
I felt like Jeff's criteria was a little zealous when I read it.
All Christians have a call to service. Some are gifted and inclined towards preaching or teaching. I tried looking for Spurgeon's "Lectures to My Students" online to post some quotes from it but had a difficult time finding it. I think I have it in paperback somewhere. Anyway, he makes some good points about people being called. It is not all lights and voices, in fact I would say it rarely is. The church, the body of Christ, plays a significant role in recognizing peoples gifts and ordaining them towards that path of service. Remember Paul and Barnabas at the Antioch church and Timothy's gift recognition as well. Not to mention the criteria given to the church in Timothy and Titus for selecting leadership.
I will say this NTCC has a low view of the ministry and as such they accept and license people who I do not believe would qualify for service by the Titus/Timothy standards.
I will say this NTCC has a low view of the ministry and as such they accept and license people who I do not believe would qualify for service by the Titus/Timothy standards.
****************** LTravis said...
The reason for the lack of qualification is because some ministers push people into the ministry that should not be there.
I remember Pop Gaylord told a young solider that Bible School was not for everyone. The problem with pushing everyone into ministry is it could be disastrous.
NTCC Minister: As you know, I have become quite cynical where callings and gifts of God are concerned. I have met so many fakes that I now look for stronger evidence for such spiritual matters.
One reason is because there are so many documented cases of miraculous events that are in fact chronicled in the bible. Not only in the Old but in the New Testament. Not only in the Gospels but also in the book of Acts. My criteria may be zealous according to your standards, (which I understand) but certainly not zealous according to Bible standards.
Look at the miraculous divine intervention that took place all throughout the book of Acts alone. We won't even talk about the "old testament" because the occurance of miracles were non-stop throughout a very good portion of it.
Does God only give folks indiscribable "feelings" anymore? Or do people interpret that these indiscribable "feelings" are coming from God when they are actually not? Who knows but I do know that you will know a tree by the fruit that it bears and I have met an awful lot of fakes in the NTCC and I don't believe they were "divinely" called to do anything.
Just because one of these phony NTCC leaders calls you to be a church leader does in fact not mean that God called you to be a church leader. That is a fact.
RWD called Denis and look what happened. That fact alone allows me to rest my case. One minute Denis was the best thing since swiss cheese and the next minute he was a "dis-fellowshipped, excommunicated devil according to every NTCC leader. If I would have questioned Denis prior to the split I would have been black listed and everyone knows it for sure, without doubt. RWD, Olson, Johnson would have sworn that Denis was the "MAN OF GAWD", "CALLED AND CHOSEN".
So you mean to tell me that I am supposed to believe that all these ministers who are in the NTCC were called by God? Just like Denis and all the other ministers who left with Denis during the split and they were all dis-fellowshipped by the NTCC. Saints one day and all devils the next. Called one day and cast away the next. Please, I have no problem saying that I am way smarter than that.
Lay hands suddenly on no man. 1Tim 5:22. The NTCC is terrible about that.
Those are some of the many reasons that I need more proof before I believe again in anyone who was supposedly called by God.
I don't want to minimize the miraculous or the omnipotence and sovereignty of God but I think it is inappropiate to project the Acts experience as normative for the church today.
Let me explain. Acts transpired over a period of several decades. If my memory serves me correctly, approximately 25 years. (Maybe longer, someone correct me if you have a better timeline.) It chronicles the inception and spread of the church. God characteristically moved in special ways at the begining of something new. i.e. Israel leaving Egypt, Israel entering the promise land, the dedication of Solomon's temple, etc. He will also move in a special way at the end of this current dispensation / epoch of time.
So in Acts we have highlights of the Apostles (in the sense of being sent by the earthly Jesus)ministries, a unique position in the history of the Church. We have highlights of God's intervention in the establishing of his church. We have decades worth of miracles transpiring over large geographical areas all being recorded in a very concise record. This allows for the appearance of miracles to seem more normative than they are.
The desire for the miraculous is the source for much of the chenanigans you claim to despise. Think of the Benny Hinn's of the modern church world. The charismatic movement, etc. Much of it is the fabricating of the miraculous.
I believe God has, does and will continue to perform miracles but I choose to leave that to his discretion. To expect such prior to believing or receiving truth kind of puts us in the place of doubting Thomas.
I don't want to minimize the miraculous or the omnipotence and sovereignty of God but I think it is inappropriate to project the Acts experience as normative for the church today.
Jeff said...
I understand your point. I really do. I don't like the shenanigans and you are right about that. I also don't think it is good to assume that God will no longer do miraculous things. When churches like the NTCC assume that, they quite often decide to do their own miraculous things, while claiming they are of God when they are actually not.
Like the "callings" of God for example. The Bible says that God is not a man that he should lie neither the son of man that he should repent. These men in the church can't take the place of God to call people to different spiritual offices if God hasn't so directed.
Then when someone like Denis says that the NTCC is corrupt and he takes a bunch of ministers with him, the NTCC says he is a devil. Did God repent, or was Denis never called, or did the NTCC become more corrupt and that fact was recognized by a devil like Denis who was actually never called to start with?
What you are doing NTCC Minister is settling for a whole lot less than what God is capable of. I've concluded that because many other NTCC folks have settled for the same, the result has been a whole bunch of shenanigans to take the place of the "real deal".
Not only that, lets draw a whole different angle on this subject. Look at Judas Iscariot. He was certainly called by Christ. He also certainly became quite confused and misled by satan. Just because Judas was in fact called, would you have kept following him to betray or when he betrayed Christ? Many of us see many NTCC leaders as Judas's but the question is, (as it pertains to this subject) were they ever called to start with. I guess there is no way for any of us to know for certain but even if they were called, I won't follow the likes of Kekel no more than a Christian should follow Judas Iscariot.
Kekel insulted all of us when he referred to all of RWDs "mandated rules" as merely "optional policies". That was totally insincere and disingenuous and a willful lie. The rules may have been only optional policies for Kekel, (because RWD is his Dad) but for the rest of us, RWD's rules were mandates and certainly not optional, but said by RWD himself to be punishable by eternal damnation if violated. The fact is Kekel has been around the NTCC enough to know this so therefor he has lied and can no longer be trusted.
Was Kekel called? Who knows but I have serious doubts, and even if he was, he has become a Judas in my book and many others.
I will say this NTCC has a low view of the ministry and as such they accept and license people who I do not believe would qualify for service by the Titus/Timothy standards.
NTCC Minister B.S., M.A.
NTCC Minister,
Well, that comment, although a thoughtful and cadid observation, blew me away.
Go Retro back 10 years ago. I had been told by Rev Macdonald at the time that he would NOT recommend me for Bible College. This is when I was stationed in Korea.
So I keep on extending my one year tour to up to six years in Korea, and what do you know? Rev MacDonald states that he would have no problem giving me a letter of Recommendation to attend NTCC Bible College.
The only reason why I stayed in Korea was that, I thought he had the heart of God and my best interests in mind. I thought if said I was doing a good job that I had God's stamp of approval. I acutally thought that God through the Holy Ghost spoke through him.
Then, I marry a Sister in the Org, she first sees the evil of NTCC's ways, then I do, then we leave NTCC gradually over a period of years.
So what your telling me is, folks like Gandy are recommending people to go to Bible College who are not even called like Dave and his wife? (Junction City, KS).
I think I will call Gandy and have him explain that to me, I want him to explain what happened to his "recommendations to Bible College students". That also includes a proud nut named Bro. Daughtery. Have not heard from him either.
"The desire for the miraculous is the source for much of the chenanigans you claim to despise. Think of the Benny Hinn's of the modern church world. The charismatic movement, etc. Much of it is the fabricating of the miraculous."
Minister, there is no need to think of BH when RW comes more readily to mind. We lapped up the "apostle's" tales of: God's visible glory and audible voice, numerous angelic visitations, gifts of healing sufficient to open the ears of a boy born deaf and to instantly restore compound fractures, gasoline supernaturally multiplied in the tank as he drove his car to an evangelistic campaign, personal and threatening encounters with the Devil himself (as if he was so important in the world to require such attention), curses and terminal illness descending on the enemies of his "ministry,"...the list goes on and on. We sat on the edges of our seats raptly absorbing his yarns of titanic exploits and Devil fighting ways. Because we wanted more than the typical American church experience, which appears so anemic next to the miracles chronicled in Acts and the gospels, we were easy marks for such a master manipulator. A combination of youthful zeal and naivety made us putty in his hands.
As we examine the fruit of his ministry in retrospect, however, these accounts ring hollow. Now I am skeptical that he has ever been anything but a narcissistic con artist. At least I hope that is the case, because otherwise, it means that he has sunk to the level he now occupies. Better to have never known it than to have forsaken the right way.
Minister, do you believe all these stories? I'm not the only one that heard them right from the horse's mouth.
I do unnderstand what you are saying concerning people being called to Bible College. My personal belief is not everyone is called to go to Bible School, sometimes God just wants you to be faithful in the community where you reside. Sometimes he wants to you to be an Elijah, John, or Jonah where you are at.
I'm not knocking education( I almost had a degree in Theoolgy..but I changed my major not trying to brag just fyi. BTW an NTCC Pastor was more than happy to tell me my education was worthless, even though I had an internship and earned college credits through a major Pentacostal University),however; I don't think everyone needs to go to school just to preach. To actually Pastor someone I think you do need a license for sake of accountabily and gravatas.
The Book of the Bible says many are called, but few are chosen. The key word in that phrase is chosen.
rats.. my above post is full of grammatical and spelling errors...I think I need more sleep LOL.
Vic.. I have seen with my own eyes healings in NTCC. I saw a Pastor in the serviceman's home bless a Sister with oil and God healed her of her malady(it wasn't a headache either.)
I didn't say no one has ever been healed in NTCC. I said I am skeptical of RW Davis' over the top claims regarding his own ministry, and the fact that someone may have been healed in an NTCC service doesn't change that.
I woke up this morning, alive. Many hundreds of folks died in their sleep and did not wake up.
I drove around with my kids and wife to the Mall and back safely. 35,000 people die each year on the roads here in America - yet I arrived back safely, another miracle!
I was just wondering. With all of R'Dubs wondrous signs and Miracles are there ANY eyewitness reports? I don't mean someone from within the organization, But an independent eyewitness source.
Every time we get on this subject about him I always go back to the fact of how much of an Idiot I was back then. I can't believe that I actually allowed them to have so much control over my life. Some of what happened I am willing to take the responsibility for but not all of it. Not by a long shot.
Also, as long as there is breath in my lungs I will not allow Mike Kekel to rewrite history about NTCC. He can go and blow smoke up someone elses Butt because with me, That Dog just won't hunt.
That is a very good question. One I would have to feel that I know the answer to as well. Maybe Grant will have a conscience? Just Maybe he won't want to get rich off of a bunch of struggling church members? Unless MC disowns him, (which won't happen) I don't think he will have much choice. He is the heir to RWDs estate no matter how you look at it. Grant is set for life. He's got the silver spoon baby.
With Tanya being RWDs only child, and Grant being Kekels only child, the wheels have been set in motion.
All your tithes, all your labor and everything else you put into the NTCC will ultimately become Grants when all is said and done. Whether you realize it or not all you NTCC folks are ultimately working for Grant. The NTCC is a Corporation and someones name has to go on it as the years continue to go by. Whether you like the guy or not, RWD is far too smart to allow all his stuff, to wind up in someones pocket other than family. It will be interesting to see how all this play's out. I suspect that some of the old timers are going to get their feelings hurt.
It really upsets me that the leaders in NTCC are trying to tell us that NTCC hasn't changed. I hear it over and over that the things I was taught were not from the leaders but from the individual pastors, etc. Hog wash! We heard it at conference also! If it wasn't what they wanted us to believe they would have said so. I'm tired of being lied to. Just tell the truth about changing the beliefs don't act like it's been like this all these years. I've been around too long to not know the truth. Never Harm
There is NO calling to go to Bible School, there is a desire. Nowhere in Scripture do you read of a calling to School. The calling to the ministry is what is, and always should be, first and foremost in a persons mind.
I desired to go to school to learn about the Bible so that I could find my place in the work of God. Be it active ministry, laity, help, whatever. Bible College to me was a starting place - a means to an end if you will, and not an end in and of itself.
You fail to remember that our Doctrinal Statement says Ordained Ministers must first show a definite calling on their life. Most students graduate, get licensed and go no further. They work, love God, help, but don't necessarily show the tell tale signs of a called minister of the Gospel. And therefore never get recognized in ordination.
Why do you folks willingly neglect to mention that? Oh, well I guess its because many of you never went in the first place. And those that did never thought about it before going. If you went because someone "made" you do it you fall into the category of a "manpleasure". You condem yourself before you open your mouth.
I love the absurdity of your blog Jeff. You mention everything and say nothing. You discredit your own points and your too blinded by your own self love to see it. You think you have arrived - your Cheif after all. Smarter than all... do you know the church I attend has a Phd in it? 3 or 4 people with Master's degrees. THree School Teachers. Are these folks blinded? Un-learned? Less intellegent than yourself?
You tout your experiences yet you forget that you stayed for 20 years. Whose the dumb one now? Who was the fraud? Who lived the lie? I can't listen to a man that sits back and decries all of the injustices that he saw for such a long period of time and didn't have the back bone to do something sooner. Why didn't you? Because there was nothing to do! You're gripes came as you grew big in your own eyes.
Why not tell the truth, that's what led to your departure. You saw a new pastor that you thought you could push around. You dropped hints here and there about how long you had been around, and what pastor's you had been under, and how much you knew trying to keep the man subservent to your will. And when it failed, and he got up and said he was going to have to get rude.. you didn't like that he would use your own tactic on you.
Getting back to the Call of God it is on the profession of the individual and the recommendation of the pastor. If they met the criteria and show a reality they are allowed to go. DO you have a litmus test that would determine if the person is a suck up, cheese eating, person trying to make others think them to be something or a true child of GOd with a heart for His work? Because if you have one I would love to hear it.
funny thing. right after Dennis split the Org. The next conference there was a huge amount of minister's "ordained". We were not able to make that one. But minister's works that were worse off then ours was at the time. Got ordained!
Having a degree does not make you immune to falling for the fake love line. ntcc is the last hope for the world line. We got holiness,"reality".
Most folks still hanging around are suck-ups,brown noser's,two faced brainwashed cult members!
Same Ole'same ole' lets try and smear there name. Folks got on Tracy's blog and tried to do the EXACT samething!!!!
To bad your scared! Ntcc is losing numbers,graduation classes are shrinking. But ntcc is winning!!yeah right! CM
OH NOW! No jealous over not getting the nod from the big so called leader,rw.
Just amazing how right after dennis splits the church. Men that supposedly had proven themselve's. I know one of those men had no tithe payers. Big litmus test by rw. Sunday AM and a Bible study with hardly anyone coming . And he was Ordained? As if they have some kind of proving themselve's before getting Ordained. It is just for looks. The bible school certificate is just for looks. Useful anywhere else,no!
Your church may be growing. While many of the other's care closing there doors. ANd as other folks get out from under the fog. Realize the policies that were SINS. Rules changing just because Mike K. wants to live a NORMAL life. Like us that have escaped do EVERYDAY! More will jump ship,Lord willing!
You tout your experiences yet you forget that you stayed for 20 years. Whose the dumb one now?
Jeff said...
When did I ever say I had been in the NTCC for 20 years? Never. Now who is the dumb one? Assumptions are the mother of all screw ups which you have just proven to very good at. Not only did I not say that I was with the NTCC for 20 years, I wasn't with the NTCC for even close to 20 years. I questioned every one of the last three pastors that I had. I was with one for about 20 months and left his church. I thought that there was just something wrong with that guy and the leadership just couldn't see it so I went to another NTCC church. That pastor didn't stay around long, moved to start a new church and was replaced. To make a long story short, I figured out after the third one that they were all messed up and I took my family out of the NTCC for good with no objections from my wife.
Once again I never said that I was in the NTCC for 20 years. Mr. Smarty pants, you read into what I wrote and you read into it WRONG. You guys and or gals that come on this blog to jump all over me always get your facts all messed up and in the process, make yourselves look like the foolish ones.
Anonymous wrote...
You're gripes came as you grew big in your own eyes.
Why not tell the truth, that's what led to your departure. You saw a new pastor that you thought you could push around. You dropped hints here and there about how long you had been around, and what pastor's you had been under, and how much you knew trying to keep the man subservient to your will. And when it failed, and he got up and said he was going to have to get rude.. you didn't like that he would use your own tactic on you.
Jeff said...
My gripes grew as I became big in my own eyes? That was an absolutely stupid statement, and once again totally wrong. My gripes grew as I became very aware that these so called, "called" NTCC ministers were a bunch of fakes. They gave the most bogus explanations to questions, that I have ever heard in my entire life. One of them didn't even know the bible basics, the other was a thorough yes man who "wouldn't" think on his own, and the other was probably the sorriest NTCC leader/preacher that I have ever met.
Keep a pastor subservient to my will? Once again a stupid statement. I never tried to keep him subservient to my will but when I realized that he had no leadership skills I certainly wasn't going to be subservient to his will. I don't follow a follower who can't think logically on his own. I don't listen to someone who tries to teach the bible but it is obvious that he doesn't know it himself. I don't follow someone who listens to someone tell him to become rude just because he had taken a church of about 80 and turned it into a church of about 9 and as a result he became desperate. Now the guy is a pastor again. What a joke.
Your analysis of me is thoroughly warped by your inability to think on your own just like the three pastors that I had.
Lastly you said that I didn't like that he would use my own tactics on me.
None of them to include the last one was capable of using my tactics because none of them could think on their own. They all believed the NTCCs twisted slant on Christianity and as a result weren't capable of using any tactics, other than the NTCCs tactics which were certainly not my tactics. That is why I questioned their bogus practices, (which were the NTCC bogus practices) as much as I did.
So I have concluded that you have completely mis-characterized me because you have no clue what in the world you are talking about which is par for the course where most NTCC people are concerned.
Some steady hits are coming from around the Houston area for quite a few days now. We must have some new fans. Something tells me they are anything but "fans". Of course it wouldn't take a genius to figure that out. Hopefully I'm wrong and they are fans. No matter.
So tell me Cheif, were you or were you not in Kileen back in the 80's? DO that math.
Jeff said...
Like I already said; assumptions are the mother of all screw ups. Your math is skewed because you don't know the whole equation. And guess what? Being that I don't answer to you and I am confident of who you are, I won't explain how your "math" got "totally" botched up. Know this, you math is botched up because you "don't" know the whole equation. Your math is about 10 years off. Go figure Mr. Mathematics major. Are you taking any classes in math? Are you attending a secular College? I figured I would ask you, (before I made assumptions like you do) so that I can get my facts straight.
Briggs: Your church (the NTCC) is totally corrupt and you are a control monger and you're abusive"!!! "Repent of your abusive, controlling ways and learn to talk to people in a respectable manner and get off your high horse for you are just like a pharisee, because the NTCC has you blind as a bat".
I've never seen an Anonymous who has the ability to write so much, But yet say so little.
So you say that you heard a voice that was so close to audible that you could hear the vibrations? I'm not going to dispute you, But why stop there? R'Dub doesn't.
Jeff, Its interesting that in NTCC when church members were complaining about abusive Pastors in the org. the "voice of God" was strangely silent. The "vibrations" of silence were deafening (and blinding too).
"Pastor Davis and a few faithful associates gave of their own lives and livelihoods to walk the jungle trails of Southeast Asia during a volatile era, while America was at war abroad, before many of us ere born. they hazarded the risks of hostile territory that had at one time been the exclusive property of Satan, going hungry and doing without on a shoestring budget in order to preach the gospel to American fighting men far from home and farther still from safety"
And you know what? He has more than been compensated for the 4 years that he spent in the Philippines. He is a Millionaire many, many times over and all of this being done on the backs of Servicemen like myself and others at different points and time.
He'll get no sympathy from me. I want to make that crystal clear.
He has had many,many more times of good than he has ever had bad since then and it has been on the Servicemens dime.
"We lapped up the "apostle's" tales of: ☺ [we sure do/did, great tales]...
...God's visible glory ☺ [don't remember this one, although Pop used to talk and preach about God's visible glory so often, maybe this memory was diluted]...
...and audible voice ☺ [heard this one many times],...
...numerous angelic visitations ☺ [heard this one many times--plus, Rev. LD Jones tells his own personal tale(s) of this],...
...gifts of healing sufficient to open the ears of a boy born deaf ☺ [heard this one many times]...
...and to instantly restore compound fractures ☺ [don't remember this one, but Pastor Davis always says so much good about himself, and has so much good said about him, that I don't ever recall it all in one sitting],...
...gasoline supernaturally multiplied in the tank as he drove his car to an evangelistic campaign ☺ [heard this one the second most often],...
...personal and threatening encounters with the Devil himself (as if he was so important in the world to require such attention) ☺ [don't remember this one, but there is always so much talk about the devil fighting, by NTCCers, that this memory may have been diluted also],...
...curses and terminal illness descending on the enemies of his "ministry," ☺ [Heard this one ad nauseam; from Pastor Davis, the other ruling families, many other ministers, wives, and church members--at each conference, each fellowship meeting, most Bible College classes, most home visits, always at the restaurant...anytime we got together someone would bring up past judgments, and/or who the latest victims of God's post-NTCC wrath were. This is the most pervasive oral tradition in NTCC, along with the below paragraphs.]...
We all hear (over and over and over and over and over and over again, from Pastor Davis) how Pastor Davis has never missed God; all he does is by the Holy Ghost; he can't remember the last time he sinned; he hasn't sinned since he became a Christian over 50 years ago; he was here first; what have we ever done for God, et cetera...
Rev. Olson frequently emphatically states, “Pastor Davis is NTCC.” Rev. Olson is very rarely as emphatic as when praising Pastor Davis.
Rev. Jordan makes public claims (on Pastor Davis behalf, and in Pastor Davis presence) of Pastor Davis modern day Apostleship, comparable to the original 12; that he is first up before the throne; may be one of the 24 elders; God hides things from Pastor Davis; et cetera…
It has been reported, public comparisons have been made between Moses and Pastor Davis (in his presence).
It is understandable that outside observers would suspect purely financial motives in the systematic, worldwide outreach to United States servicemen, but only if certain essential points of context are entirely removed from the picture. Pastor Davis and a few faithful associates gave of their own lives and livelihoods to walk the jungle trails of Southeast Asia during a volatile era, while America was at war abroad, before many of us ere born. they hazarded the risks of hostile territory that had at one time been the exclusive property of Satan, going hungry and doing without on a shoestring budget in order to preach the gospel to American fighting men far from home and farther still from safety. Concurrently, these men were reaching the lost indigenous people of Vietnam and the Islands of the Philippines (at this juncture, allow me to insert, for the benefit of anyone who cannot follow a train of thought, that the question is not one of worthiness as established by good works, but rather of motives as established by track record). Proceeding-It seems to me to be deliberately otuse (in reality, all of the misgivings represented by former ministers contain an element of unwillingness to see things as they are, to forgive, or to extend simple Christian grace) to suggest carnal motivations on the part of one so obviously devoted to the spiritual welfare of those whose lives are forfeit for the sake of their nation's security. the incomes of servicemen may be reliable, but they are also reliably minuscule. as to their ability to contribute steadily to the spiritual enterprise, they tend to be relocated with considerable frequency.
Well, my church is growing go figure! Are you a little jealous you didn't get the nod?
ANON, in retrospect, your church may be growing.
The last graduating class of NTCC 09 slashed gang signs in their pictures (of the world)
Kekel pays $20,000 a year off the backs of tithepayers so that his son Grant can play football in naughty football tighties (in the world). You cannot tell me that he makes that much off of his secular income (whatever he does) alone.
Kekel cancels 4Th of July Services (a monstrosity by Davis' standards) so that folks could "Hang" with him at his place (of the world). Like Kekel stated, "We had a BLAST"
Kekel states that once were NTCC rules are options and that it is ok to listen to country music (of the world)
Kekel attends Bluegrass festivals until it starts JUMPING too much (of the world).
Your church is growing because the leadership has compromised. They are of the world, and the wordly love their own.
The leadership is desperate. Desperate times call for desperate measures. If they do not change then NTCC die.
They may have had a walk with God 40years ago, but God and the leadership split ways a long time ago.
..gasoline supernaturally multiplied in the tank as he drove his car to an evangelistic campaign ☺ [heard this one the second most often],...
PDQ, now that one really pulled my leg! That never happened to me during my ten years of faithful service to NTCC.
I guess I was not at that spirtual level yet, just a yellowbelt, Kemosabi! I had to pray for taxis to show up out of nowhere in the pouring rain to take me and my contacts to the church service!!
Much learning of Holy Ghost ways, I see I must do, Komrad Jeff!!
...personal and threatening encounters with the Devil himself (as if he was so important in the world to require such attention) ☺ [don't remember this one, but there is always so much talk about the devil fighting, by NTCCers, that this memory may have been diluted also],...
PDQ, yes, I heard this little yarn too! It goes like this,
Rev Davis is walking somewhere and suddenly the devil appears to him in human form. The devil points to him and states "You will serve me". Davis is engaged in a titanic stuggle between good and evil. Davis' body starts shaking violently. He cannot help but move toward satan. Finally, he yells out the name above all names, "JE-SUS SAVE ME" and the devil vanishes.
Or the time Davis and a preacher were walking in a city and he heard a demon yell, "GET OUUTTTTTTTTT", "GET OUUTTTTTTTTTT" That the demon knows those who have the Holy Spirit.
NTCC Preachers and members, heed the advice of the demon:
going hungry and doing without on a shoestring budget in order to preach the gospel to American fighting men far from home and farther still from safety.
Anon, I went physically hungry for almost a week due to paying money so my NTCC preacher and his wife could fly to Amerika and go to conference. (In order for them to preach the gospel).
It is quite humbling when your living on change when you give your all to the house of God.
It is equally humbling when you have to dig through trash to find morsels of food to eat.
At least my preacher and his wife were feed good and had a good time at conference. We have to take care of the Man of God at our expense, right???
First why did you delete all the other posts? COuldn't hang with the statments?
You CHeif said Your interpretation of the near audible voice was, "This is where i want you."
Hate to burst your bubble but that was Brian Pelfrey that wrote taht on factnet in 2004.
DO I atten secular college, not anymore Got my degree 2 years ago, in Psychology no less.
Off by about 10 years, well I know I've been around 20 years and you were in church with people that came before me so do tell when DID you come around and why did you stay so long.
Big in your own eyes is a dumb statement you say? WHy not talk to God because that's exactly what he said to Saul.
Slow to learn or understand; obtuse. Tending to make poor decisions or careless mistakes. Marked by a lack of intelligence or care; foolish or careless: a stupid mistake.
Old Briggs, the pastor in Houston Tx has come on board with a bang. Because Mr. Briggs has the uncontrolable desire to debate exNTCCers both previously on factnet and now here on this blog, I figured that I would set the record straight.
Briggs the abuser / control monger, is the NTCC pastor who felt it necessary to have an armed brother in his church because he was afraid of an exNTCCer who he kicked out of his church. Briggs is also the guy who told me that Kekel said that God told Kekel it was ok to listen to country music. You probably remember this from a previous thread.
Now Mr. Briggs is coming on here and posting statements that Brian Pelfery wrote previously. Brian Pelfery hasn't so much as posted one word on this Blog to my knowledge, so if you want to post statements Briggs; post your own. I sincerely respect Brain Pelfery but I am not Brian and he is not me.
What you are trying to do Mr. Briggs is take Brian's statements and use them against exNTCCers on this blog and if Brian was the moderator here your craftiness might be prove to be effective. However Brian is not the moderator here I am, and all of his views are not necessarily mine. So if you continue to post Brian's statements, I will delete them. Post your own.
Oh by the way; you are calling me a "dork" now. You called me "asinine" and a "dodo" on the phone and now you are calling me a dork. Mr. Briggs: You are the sorriest excuse of a pastor that I have ever talked to. You have no business behind a pulpit. Your attitude and abusive character is exactly why so many folks have left the NTCC. You possess so few of the fruits of the Spirit chronicled in Galatians. You are a poor pastor at best, and you have no business serving is a Christian Minister. You are better equipped to serve in a league of street thugs.
Since when do Christian Pastors brag about how many people they are baptizing? Are the people in your church like hunting trophies that you hang up on your wall? I truly feel sorry for every last person in your church.
Since when did NTCC "pastors" start going to secular colleges while they are supposed to be full time pastors? You are the second one that I know of. So much for all that soul winning that RWD talked about. While you were supposed to be out soul winning and visiting folks, you were apparently doing your homework. Briggs you are a complete fake and so is the entire NTCC organization.
Rev. Briggs is an example of why I want out of this org. I'm sick of supposed Christians that look down their spiritual nose at people who aren't in NTCC. Get a life! Let God get ahold of you and save you from pride. Funny how most people in NTCC think that if you leave you're not saved anymore. Rev. Davis left one org. to start another. If God can tell him to leave a church then God can certainly tell someone-else to leave NTCC and go to another church. After all, He always told us in school that God can talk to us just like he speaks to him. Never Harm
Rev. Briggs is an example of why I want out of this org. I'm sick of supposed Christians that look down their spiritual nose at people who aren't in NTCC. Get a life! Let God get ahold of you and save you from pride. Funny how most people in NTCC think that if you leave you're not saved anymore. Rev. Davis left one org. to start another. If God can tell him to leave a church then God can certainly tell someone-else to leave NTCC and go to another church. After all, He always told us in school that God can talk to us just like he speaks to him. Never Harm
this needs to be posted AGAIN! Hit the the target with this statement! So true!
"..gasoline supernaturally multiplied in the tank as he drove his car to an evangelistic campaign ☺ [heard this one the second most often],..."
Yeah, it was ostensibly just like the widow and her pot of oil. But God isn't multiplying any gas for the poor suckers that run the wheels off their cars in service of RW's little cash generating empire. As we know, the money flows only one direction in NTCC--toward the leadership. Any aberrations in this pattern are rare, and consist of the occasional bone thrown to some poor, broke sucker. These incidents are loudly trumpeted as evidence of RW's peerless compassion, even though he biblical rule when it comes to alms is that the left hand isn't to know what the right hand does.
RW is really an inverse Robin Hood, taking from the poor to increase the coffers of the rich. He's just another scammer, living in a five thousand square foot one bedroom palace protected by alarms, fences, and guards. But nothing can protect him from the One he has wronged the most.
Mr. Briggs: You are the sorriest excuse of a pastor that I have ever talked to. You have no business behind a pulpit.
Well Jeff, I Beg to differ with you on this one.(Tongue planted FIRMLY in Cheek) Keep in mind that we are talking about NTCC here, and not a Church where true "Holiness" really means something.
The Holiness at NTCC is what I would call a Pseudo type Holiness because they tend to focus on the outward, and not the inward. I'm not saying that there are not people there who truly are Christians, But I think that NTCC is a living example of the fact that you can have all the rules that you want, as well as attempt to legislate righteousness and Holiness and in the end you have neither. I'm reminded of R'Dubs escapades at the Church in Chrondelet, Mo. as well as the revolving Marriages and divorce rate, as well as other Sins of the Flesh that go on there as we speak.
I understand Mark. I've talked to many pastors in the NTCC and I really feel that Briggs is the worst and these are the reasons why.
He is as abusive or more so than any NTCC Minister that I have ever talked to. He makes a habit of name calling. I've read an email that he sent to someone where he called them names as well. He challenges people to confrontation in a threatening manner. He did it to me and he did it in the email that I read which he wrote. He shows every attribute of a narcissist who feels that he must be in control people that he deals with. He is worse than RWD or any other NTCC pastor that I have talked with in terms of being a control monger. He not only shows no temperance but he clearly doesn't even try to. He shows no meekness and does not display kindness. He is simply a nasty guy who has no business as a pastor of any church.
That is how I see it. He is "the" classic example of why the NTCC is so thoroughly messed up. The NTCC just loves abusive, control mongers who are just like him. Guys like Briggs are the exact reason that blogs like this one have ever existed.
JEFF SAID: Now Mr. Briggs is coming on here and posting statements that Brian Pelfery wrote previously. Brian Pelfery hasn't so much as posted one word on this Blog to my knowledge, so if you want to post statements Briggs; post your own I SAY: You quote Brian and Tracy and how they were attacked on their blog, I show you why…. You want to quote them….so quote all of it and stop being selective in what you want people to know about the information they read from your peanut gallery.
JEFF SAID: What you are trying to do Mr. Briggs is take Brian's statements and use them against exNTCCers on this blog and if Brian was the moderator here your craftiness might be prove to be effective.
I SAY: No, your wrong. See I worked for Brain for a couple of years and had many, many personal conversations with him which he does not want out and which I will not air. I tried to engage him on Factnet many times and he dodged me. His wife tried her best but he would not so no, he wouldn’t do any better then you.
JEFF SIAD: Oh by the way; you are calling me a "dork" now. You called me "asinine" and a "dodo" on the phone and now you are calling me a dork. Mr. Briggs: You are the sorriest excuse of a pastor that I have ever talked to. You have no business behind a pulpit. Your attitude and abusive character is exactly why so many folks have left the NTCC. I SAY: Yes, I called you Asinine and your lack of understanding of the English language reveals this fact yet again. The dictionary say: as⋅i⋅nine–adjective 1. foolish, unintelligent, or silly; stupid: It is surprising that supposedly intelligent people can make such asinine statements.
This definition fits equally well in our conversation then as it does now. Dodo isdefined as: defined several ways,
any of several clumsy, flightless, extinct birds of the genera Raphus and Pezophaps, related to pigeons but about the size of a turkey, formerly inhabiting the islands of Mauritius, Réunion, and Rodriguez. 2. Slang. a dull-witted, slow-reacting person.
In case, if your wondering, definition 2 fits you best (thought I would help you figure that out cuz I know your not so sharp.
JEFF SAID : You possess so few of the fruits of the Spirit chronicled in Galatians.
I SAY: What are those fruits Love…. Well lets see I think my defense of my flock, my friends, my family, and my leaders shows love. And my almost 5 years of personally dealing with your buddy shows I love as well as reinforcing my longsufferingness. Joy… I love my life, my work.. so I guess I’m full of joy. Peace … I am at complete peace… my failures are my failures not someone or something else (you folks are the ones in need of peace). Longsuffering… I’ve already addressed this. Gentle….. Gentle doesn’t mean push over or weak. You called me to harass me, and then when I give you more than you bargained for you cry foul. You fairy. Meekness – Moses was the meekest man on the face of the earth but meekness is not wimpyness as dumb donald (aka Johnson) thinks. Temperence…. I’ve never called any of you people. I stoped writing and dealing with your trash talk 5 years ago btu your still at it. Seems I show more temperance than you folks do. JEFF SAID: You are a poor pastor at best, and you have no business serving is a Christian Minister. I SAY Don’t tell that to the 225 we had not long ago.. they wouldn’t buy it.
JEFF SAID: Since when did NTCC "pastors" start going to secular colleges while they are supposed to be full time pastors? I SAY: Since the advent of the Online Class. JEFF SAID: You are the second one that I know of. So much for all that soul winning that RWD talked about. While you were supposed to be out soul winning and visiting folks, you were apparently doing your homework. I SAY: No, actually I never had to study much at all and I ended up on the Deans list with a 3.9 GPA. College is WAY overrated. And, the over 25 new converts show activity on my part. Do they come out of thin air? All by themselves?
JEFF SAID: Briggs you are a complete fake and so is the entire NTCC organization. I SAY: My little bugger bear, you seem so cross at me. Why golly, you can tell I’m a fake from a phone conversation that you initiated to harass me and defame my friends and I’m the fake. You spend OVER 20 Years (I confirmed it this a.m. with a mutual acquaintance that was in church with you back then) apparently dissatisfied, angry, abused… in short, you were the fake. I’ve been the same for over 20 years. And I have documented proof of that from my online postings in 2004-5 and now. You on the other hand change as your little panties get in a wad. You’re a fool…… Tell me, why did your last Pastor state he had to be “Rude” was it for no reason at all or was something going on that he finally had to change tactics and approach the problem differently? My experience tells me that if someone says “I’m going to HAVE TO” its because what I’ve already tried has not worked.
Oh, and for the RECORD I was the person he talked to. Not RWD, Not Rev. Kekel, not Rev. Kinson. Little old me. So stop tooting your horn about “THE ORGANIZATIONAL LEADERSHIP TOLD HIM TO SAY THAT TO ME”. I am a friend of his that recognized he was too nice for his own good for your sake as you’ve already testified you had problems with your last 3 or 4 pastors and pulled your family in and out like a rubber band. Which, I realized last night as I drifted off to my peaceful slumber, shows you’re a mean, manipulative, abusive control freak that makes the decisions ALL for your wife regardless of what she wants. If you “Pulled” her out of church it tells me that she was resisting. Why else would you choose that particular mode of speech. I would think that if you were the gentle loving man you try to say you are you would have “LEAD” her, or agreed with her it was time to go. But no, you PULLED HER…. Sound like you view your wife more as a tooth than a partner.
Never Harm said... Rev. Briggs is an example of why I want out of this org. I'm sick of supposed Christians that look down their spiritual nose at people who aren't in NTCC. Get a life! I SAY: Ha ha, so you can look down your spiritual schnozzle at us and it’s ok. But when we point out the blaringly obvious we are “wrong”. Get out if you want (which you know you already have done and are simply trying to fain a searching soul that is on the verge of departure. I think the scriptures call that dissimulation and it my utterly lost friend, is a sin. NEVER HARM SAID: Let God get ahold of you and save you from pride. Funny how most people in NTCC think that if you leave you're not saved anymore. I SAY: When Did I say that? I think there are people that have left. But those people don’t sit around and cry to a world wide population to try to get a listening ear. They go do what they feel God separated us from them to do. Point in case Rev. Moses. NEVER HARM SAID Rev. Davis left one org. to start another. I SAY: Did he employ your Gestapo tactics? Did he tell you the name of that organization or did your loser friends? Did he mention names of the people he separated from and tell you his beef’s with them? No, all of the things you know, short of the fact that he felt God wanted him to start another organization, came from your gossip buddies.
NEVER HARM” If God can tell him to leave a church then God can certainly tell someone-else to leave NTCC and go to another church. After all, He always told us in school that God can talk to us just like he speaks to him. I SAY: Go to another church that’s fine. But spending 5 years of continual harangue is a little bit excessive. And, even if in my personal estimation your wrong why should that make you spend all of your time trying to get me to agree? In my phych classes they called it transference.
NEVER HARM” If God can tell him to leave a church then God can certainly tell someone-else to leave NTCC and go to another church. After all, He always told us in school that God can talk to us just like he speaks to him.
I SAY: So there you have it reader. Confirmation that all of this hullabaloo about Rev. Davis setting himself above everyone else is disannulled by Never-Harm because she (you must be a woman the way you write) says
After all, He always told us in school that God can talk to us just like he speaks to him.
And on the money issue...when I worked for Brian's company I made between 5 - 6 K per WEEK (as Brian can testify) when I left. If I wanted money, I would never have left that position.
You spend OVER 20 Years (I confirmed it this a.m. with a mutual acquaintance that was in church with you back then) apparently dissatisfied, angry, abused… in short, you were the fake.
Jeff said...
Once again, you are not only wrong but so was acquittance, David Bright unless you simply couldn't listen to what he told you. He obviously left out a key part of the equation or you just failed to listen. Once again you are about 10 years off. You see there you go again coming on here with completely erroneous information. I keep telling you that you are way off with your math.
I was very real. Unlike you I tried to actually practice what I preached. You are just a hypocrite who can't seem to stay away from the devilnet as your master RWD so called it. You were right about me being dissatisfied. I wasn't angry though so you were wrong about that also Briggs.
Jeff.. oN the issue of the emails you read... shall I post the emails your buddy wrote to a 10 and 12 year old? Because I have them. Or how about the ones where he went around writing Crum, Hase, and others trying to "Dig up some dirt" on me? Because I have them....
WHy not tell them that he hijacked a church newsletter email address and tried to plead with people that Had no idea of what was going on forcing me to completely out him for all of the debaste perverse vile things he had become... That's fair game right....
Names have a purpose don't you know, they lable a thing a thing. They are descriptives that clarify a point. You know exactly what I think of your cowardly, unmanly, psychopathic crusade.
And they can not be tricked by people like these folks who spread distortions of truths to confuse the unlearned.
Folks,that feel stuck in ntcc. Know the TRUTH and the TRUTH will set you Free. Find out the truth how Mike K. had land deeded to him from the Church? Find out the truth how Grant is afford a education that cost 20,000 a year. Who paid for that? Know where your money is going. A printed report from the office!
We are not distorting anything. You briggs are under the ntcc fog. You swallow hook line and sinker. As all of us did for years. But we are FREE! Free moral agents. Are you? Do you rely totally on God. Or someone else!
this blog is for the TRUE story. And that is what people will get. When they can now google and learn and decide on there own. Know the TRUTH before ever set foot in a ntcc building,or hotel room. You may have 25 people know that just got baptised. Say in six months,wonder how many of those folks will still be attending your service's. What is the sticking around time for folks in yours or any ntcc small church? Not long!
So CM... why did you prented to be a current member you liar.
And, if we are so small and the attrition is so fast why not let things take care of themselves for they surely will... Unless of course God has a hand in it then it will never GO AWAY... but you will won't you? Evntually, inevitably you will. As someone already pointed out some of you are in your 50's now. Just about the time your poor health habits are going to manifest themselves (ask Jeffy's friend about that). And the work will go on.
post the emails your buddy wrote to a 10 and 12 year old? Because I have them. Or how about the ones where he went around writing Crum, Hase, and others trying to "Dig up some dirt" on me? Because I have them....
What does something a friend of Jeffs have anything to do with sharing our TRUE stories. This is not TP blog. Where everyone just LOVED to argue. We are here to share what we went through and the mental anguish some are still going through. Healing can take a while after escaping a CULT!
Folks that come on here to learn more about ntcc. This is what they LOVE to do. Smear you,try to ridicule you,if your a woman put you in your place. Pretend that we are idiots and they are so much smarter then the average joe,call name's! If you start attending one of there"churches" Stop and find a real Church. Where they will care about you wether you attend there service's or not. Because once you stop attending ntcc,they will drop you like a hot COAL! Smear your name,tell lie's. It is done OVER AND OVER AGAIN! THIS IS A FACT and can be PROVEN!!
CM SAID If you start attending one of there"churches" Stop and find a real Church. Where they will care about you wether you attend there service's or not. Because once you stop attending ntcc,they will drop you like a hot COAL! Smear your name,tell lie's. It is done OVER AND OVER AGAIN! THIS IS A FACT and can be PROVEN!!
Please do show me one of our Smear sites? Where we go to smear all of the people that left. Oh, your right when you go on the attack we come out the defend but that is a natural reaction.
Show me where you folks are talkign about healing in any of these posts and I can show you page after page where you do nothing but hate. CM tell your husband to rub your back and sit in a tub full of calgon because you need an emotional rest.
Please my poor confused anon. What are you talking about. I pretended to be a member. I have escaped ntcc. I can thank my DH for that.
I am not in my fifties. Thankfully I did not wait that long to leave the cult. Poor eating habits,not me. I can now afford to buy groceries without using coupons. And not stand in line at a good bank,like we HAD to while barely surviving while stuck in ntcc.
Let nature take its course. No way. If I can stop someone from making the same mistake I did. By attending ONE ntcc service. I will toss them the life pererver and stop them from being brainwashed,CONTROLLED,lost and on there way to hell. Being in the ntcc cult is not helping them reach Heaven. rw is aiding the devil,not God!
What does something a friend of Jeffs have anything to do with sharing our TRUE stories. -CM
Ask Jeff, he's the one that keeps wanting to site a private conversation about a mutual acquaintance as proof positive that he can, over the phone, without ever meeting me, seeing me, hearing my preaching, sitting in this church, etc etc. that he knows I am a fake because of what his "Friend" Showed him.
Jump him if you must jump someone for bringing up superfluous issues.
CM tell your husband to rub your back and sit in a tub full of calgon because you need an emotional rest
TOLD YOU FOLKS> Belitting right there. To the woman. I don't need any emotional rest. After leaving ntcc. I never realized how much stress I was under. Live up to the perfect PW image. Folks in ntcc think oh this is the best life. Your living a Fake life. Got out and met real Christians. Who do walk the walk. And don't hide behind I am a Christian and we can't be friends line!
oh dear confused ntcc cult member. I do not need a midol. Not like the ntcc longtime minister's wive's that are addicted to depression medicine and anti-anxiety medicine. Because they know deep down what they and there husbands have done to people's live's. The damage they have caused can not be reversed!!
Folks ntcc has nothing to offer you. Except ranting and raving behind a pulpit. Tell them your personal information. Watch out when they find the right opportunity. They will use it! I am so glad I got out and stayed out of the radar of rw and mk. Less they know about you the better.
they get your respect. As long as if there married they stay at home. If there married and out working on a job. Do they get your respect? If they speak up and question you. Do they get your respect? Or is a pat on the head,be a good little wify and do as your told respect. We all know that is rw opinion of woman.Listen to how he goes on about his own wife over the pulpit. don't like it WOMAN ,then hit the road!
I could really care less about your personal e-mails between you and Jeff. I don't come on here because I always agreee with Jeff,pdq,ect.. I come on to share my personal TRUE accounts while stuck in ntcc. So other woman do not have to go through what I did. It was all fine and DANDY while I was in a local Church. I got to Washington. And rw blasts away. Making sure woman feel knee high to a grasshopper. Keep us in our spot. So we do not really share our OPINIONS. because lady that is all it is,your opinion(rw words)! I could go on and on how he bashes women over the pulpit. And there are more then two or three witness that will agree with me!!!
I hope for your sake you do not bash people over the pulpit. And share personal information. And berate them and make people feel guilty over what you consider a sin. Judgement!!!
Hey Briggs: What is with all the names that you come up with like dumb donald, dweebs, dodo dork, and fool? Do you just like calling folks names? Boy that makes you a great pastor. I'm impressed.
Wow Briggs, you actually had 225 people in church? That is almost have the number that Denis in one service. Ha, ha, ha. LOL. Everyone that I talked to said Denis is a devil so what does that make you? Almost half the devil? Are we supposed to be impressed with you numbers? The Pharisees had at least tens of thousands and the Catholics have millions. So do the Jehovah's witness and the Mormons. For that matter so do the Muslims. Having 225 people in your church only means that there are 225 seriously deceived folks that live in or around Houston.
I wonder how they feel about having a pastor who is no more than a big name caller?
Briggs said...
"You quote Brian and Tracy and how they were attacked on their blog"
Jeff said...
I have never quoted Brian or Tracy as being attacked on the blog not even one time. There you go with another lie Briggs.
I hope none of the people in you church trust you because you as a pastor just put out all of you ex-church members business all over the internet. Some of the stuff that you wrote according to him is not accurate. I figure the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. He says that he never smeared poopy anywhere on your building. He also says that neither you or anyone else has any proof of him inappropriately touching children. If he was inappropriately touching children, you should have had him arrested. So either you don't possess good judgment by letting him walk or he is right and you have no proof. And you have a police officer in your church but you still didn't see to it that charges were pressed against a potential child molester? You are sorry Briggs. If what you are saying is right, you are just as guilty as he is for not taking action.
You say the guy lied on numerous occasions? You have lied on numerous occasions right on this blog by continuing to tell me that I was in the NTCC for 20 years when I was only in about 10 or slightly less. You lied when you said that "I" quoted Tracy and Brian as being attacked. Someone else may have but it wasn't me.
Briggs; you are nothing but a name calling, abusive, control freak and it is evidenced by the things you write. The same way you write to me is the same way you deal with folks in the church. I can just hear you being a big blow hard behind the pulpit blasting folks constantly. As far as a pastor goes, you are nothing but a joke.
Oh and by the way; you were just dying to get out of church so you could write me back. You must have had a really great message today? Thank God I didn't have to listen to your big mouth.
Oh,concerning the Smear site's. This is not a smear site. This is TRUE stories. If you don't like the truth getting out. To bad!
I know lies were said about us. Got it from the horse's mouth(mk) I know for a fact lies were said about a couple that left ntcc. Said they left for money,be near family,left Gods calling. Far from it! Still working in a ministry. They are not rich by RW standards how he live's!!!
There are more TRUE stories folks can share. That smearing has and still goes on to this day!
For the record: The guy that you refer to as my friend is not. I haven't talked to the guy in years and years prior to you kicking him out of your church. He contact me because a mutual acquaintance gave him my phone number. Unless he calls me I don't plan to talk to him again.
What does something a friend of Jeffs have anything to do with sharing our TRUE stories. -CM
Briggs said...
Ask Jeff, he's the one that keeps wanting to site a private conversation about a mutual acquaintance as proof positive that he can, over the phone, without ever meeting me, seeing me, hearing my preaching, sitting in this church, etc etc. that he knows I am a fake because of what his "Friend" Showed him.
Jeff said...
Like I already said, the guy you are referring to is not my friend. Briggs keeps saying he is my friend but he is not. The reason I say that Briggs is a fake is because of the conversation that Briggs and I had with each other. When Briggs called me asinine and a dodo and started ranting and raving, I knew he was a fake. A "REAL" Christian Pastor wouldn't act like that. I also knew he was fake when he kept trying to defend Kekel and all the NTCC so called policies and the fact that Kekel went to a blue grass festivel, and Kekel listened to Kenny Rogers,(The Gambler) with Gods approval. Briggs is a fake and now he is totally and intentionally trying to distort the truth right here on this blog.
Like trying to suggest that one of his ex-churchmembers / ex-NTCC ministers is my friend because the guy is not.
The reason that Briggs is trying to associate his ex church member with me is to try an smear my credibility by association. Well guess what. I don't let exNTCCers willfully lie on this blog and I won't let Briggs do it either.
Tell me, why did your last Pastor state he had to be “Rude” was it for no reason at all or was something going on that he finally had to change tactics and approach the problem differently? My experience tells me that if someone says “I’m going to HAVE TO” its because what I’ve already tried has not worked.
Oh, and for the RECORD I was the person he talked to. Not RWD, Not Rev. Kekel, not Rev. Kinson. Little old me. So stop tooting your horn about “THE ORGANIZATIONAL LEADERSHIP TOLD HIM TO SAY THAT TO ME”.
Jeff said...
Boy isn't that a case of the blind leading the blind. No wonder Oberhauser was so ate up. He was taking advise from you. Well I guess I owe you some thanks Briggs. Oberhauser making that statement was the last straw with me and my wife. Isn't it funny how God works in mysterious way to help folks like me get out of a cult like the one that you are in.
Briggs,your smearing RIGHT NOW. Folks got on factnet to smear ex-ntccer's. As if we are one big group. Like ya'll are. ntcc clique!
RW smears people after leaving. Kinson does and I know Mike K. makes up lie's! Your all full of crap!
It is turn though. The wheels of judgment do turn slowly,but they do turn. Judgement is coming for ntcc. Oh why,oh why is folks leaving,churches are closing up,graduation numbers are dwindling. Your all trying to look and act like the world. (COMPROMISE) so you can stop the negative flow of people leaving! Not going to work. Your women still look like they belong on little house and the prairie. I always refer folks to how ya'll look to the latest cult in Texas. Out dated!! So much for not being the first one in style and the last one out of style. Ntcc with those Hawaiin shirts,women with silk blouse's,scarfs,matching shoes and purse. VERY OUTDATED!!
"I am a friend of his that recognized he was too nice for his own good for your sake as you’ve already testified you had problems with your last 3 or 4 pastors and pulled your family in and out like a rubber band. Which, I realized last night as I drifted off to my peaceful slumber, shows you’re a mean, manipulative, abusive control freak that makes the decisions ALL for your wife regardless of what she wants. If you “Pulled” her out of church it tells me that she was resisting. Why else would you choose that particular mode of speech. I would think that if you were the gentle loving man you try to say you are you would have “LEAD” her, or agreed with her it was time to go. But no, you PULLED HER…. Sound like you view your wife more as a tooth than a partner."
Jeff's wife says....
Mr. Briggs you really need to stick to speaking about what you know and stop dreaming up lies in your "peaceful slumber". I thank God and my husband for the day he finally decided to call NTCC quits. He no more pulled me out of church than you received a valid degree/license to preach from NTCS. Once Jeff shared his feelings about departing, WE agreed to tell the Oberhauser's immediately. Your telling Oberhauser that he needed to be rude is shameful. Your bragging about it is repulsive. You should have been advising him on how not to preach 50 minutes on a 10 minute subject and how to be genuinely interested in your congregation. I know why you didn't or couldn't; because you are just like Davis and Kekel. You think abusing the flock is your duty and right as a so-called preacher. So whatever terminology Jeff used: pulled, pushed, drug, or otherwise, I was glad to be going.
I hope your congregation is reading this blog. Hopefully they'll see your true colors and the advice you give your fellow so-called preachers. Keep blogging Mr. Briggs.
There you have it Mr. Briggs. Straight from my wife. She has posted on this blog maybe twice that I know of; ever.
Doesn't look like I had to drag her out of the NTCC now does it? I guess you deciding to capitalize on my terminology didn't quite work out the way you had planned. Well as you see she saw fit to set the record straight. Did it sound like she was a big fan of the NTCC? I didn't think so.
Hopefully you have a nice peaceful slumber this evening just as you did the last. Maybe your peaceful slumber won't result in another mis-characterization of someone else's wife.
Like my wife said, keep blogging because you have certainly helped our cause here. You're so smart, you have outsmarted yourself this time.
Like my wife said, keep blogging because you have certainly helped our cause here. You're so smart, you have outsmarted yourself this time.
Ha ha... Your the one that used the term "Pulled" and I am the one that mischaracterized ha ha.. doesn't the Bible say out of the abundance of the heart... Sister your husband thinks your a dog that he can pull back at will... you better run before he yanks your chain again.
This is the finest NTCC has to offer folks just read how this pastor has such command of the English language. What a wonderful man of God. I wonder if he knows the greatest commandment of all. Does anyone think this pastor of a NTCC loves anyone but himself? WOW Dude they make medication for what you have. Rev. Big says (yes I know his real name but its fitting)
Your a dork,asinine,dodo,My little bugger bear,you dweebs, loser friends,need for midol and much more.
I have contacted Rev Kekel though the means I normally contact him and informed him of your adventures on this blog.
You should be hearing from him shortly.
Man, the internet is amazing, isn't it???
I will give Kekel credit where credit is due: He does respond.
May you sleep peacefully in your chambers tonight as well!!!
Bro Johnson
Your a dork... do you think I don't talk to Rev. Kekel? Do you think that he's going to call me and tell me to back off? Do you think I will? Ha ha your so stupid your funny. You can't take me, so you run for protection but it won't come. I AM MY OWN MAN always have been and alwasy will be. Your sissy self spent years of your life trying to be someone else only to come to what I new all along you cant so you ran.
Do you realize how weak and pathetic you sound "I told your daddy on you. You better leave me alone" Do you need a bottle for that whine of yours?
Gee,Mr. Briggs I think it was your master rw davis that told everyone to stay off TP blog. So I would assume that he would want you to stay off Jeff's blog as well. rw knows that you guys get on here and make you and ntcc look so stupid. You show what a farse you are as a REAL Christian. You show so much LACK of love it is not even funny!
Someone gets on here and ruffles your feather's. You start calling names as if you a child on the playground. But that is how your treated from your master rw or is it now Mike K. is now the new master.
What a laugh. Your own man. No man in ntcc is there own man. The church you work at is not yours it is ntcc. Those folks your reaching are not yours,there ntcc's. You send your own tithe and then the churches tithe and many pledges on top of that. Way to keep the empire going. You belittle woman. Call men names.
Guess why folks? Because he has NO COME BACKS. While I was stuck in ntcc. Folks would bring up questions. I would say,it is in the Bible. I had nothing to back up there so called sins,oh that's right there POLICIES!
Stay on here Mr. Briggs. You are helping the cause. Show folks what idiots are leading the Churches for ntcc.
Your a dork... do you think I don't talk to Rev. Kekel? Do you think that he's going to call me and tell me to back off? Do you think I will? Ha ha your so stupid your funny. You can't take me, so you run for protection but it won't come. I AM MY OWN MAN always have been and alwasy will be. Your sissy self spent years of your life trying to be someone else only to come to what I new all along you cant so you ran.
Do you realize how weak and pathetic you sound "I told your daddy on you. You better leave me alone" Do you need a bottle for that whine of yours? ******************* I think NTCC has a loose cannon on their hands... This guy is weird.
4/01/2009 A Little Tidbit Of Information ....Mike Kekel created his blog as a direct equalizer / counter to Brian Pelfrey's blog which is named ntccXposed. The only difference between Brian and Mike is; Brian did not try to hide his true intentions when he created his website but Mike did. Brian Pelfrey’s clearly stated intention when he created his website was to attack the NTCC's practices and expose the NTCC for what it truly is and that is evidenced by not only what he named his website but it is also evidenced by what he named his Unform Resource Locator (URL). The true name Brian Pelfrey gave his Uniform Resource Locator (URL) is displayed when you go to ntccXposed. You have to dig just a little bit to find out what name Mike gave to his blogs Uniform Resource Locator (URL).
This is the name that Mr. Pelfrey gave his URL: http://www.ntccxposed.com/
This is the name that Mr. Kekel gave his URL that he didn't want people to see: http://exntccrsxposed.blogspot.com/
Posted by Jeff Collins at 4/01/2009 12:30:00 PM 18 comments
Oh please briggs. You defend you friends ONLY IF THERE IN NTCC. If that friend was to leave ntcc. You would smear them,and not defend them to your master's!!
Tracy's blog is gone due to family illness. Not that you care. Jeff's blog started before tracy's blog was taken off.
I hope when Tracy is able to come back on-line. To do so. And get another blog going. The more to battle the EVIL of ntcc and these crazy men they got running around calling themselve's minister's. Guess what world. NO ONE BUT NTCC reconizes them as a minister. There license is useless ANYWHERE else!
Jeff,please be careful what is said on here. We don't want wierdo's coming on. Trying to get your or others riled up. Briggs has never come on here before. Only coming now to mess with us. Get everyone riled up.
But what he is really doing is showing ntcc True colors. Thanks again wierdo. Like to call names. Sure many of us that have escaped ntcc have a few for control freaks still in ntcc!!!
why would it bother you briggs that your called a name. Since you have come on here. That is all you have done is call names. Your sooo mature! NOT!!!!
Many folks that join ntcc stop maturing once they get in. Because the "leaders" take over for them!
ooh,please go back to sleep. Stop leading people astray. Twisting scripture. Preaching as your policies are sins. And many of what your teaching as a sin is not a sin. Leading people into bondage they don't need to be in.
Jeff why do you keep skippng the question about 1985. Did David lie? Did your buddy BEal lie? Were you not in the church in 1985... how is it less than 23 years by the common calander?
Jeff said...
Beal is not my buddy and you keep lying by continuing to insist that I was in the NTCC more than 10 years longer than I really was.
Your common calendar doesn't work without the right figures which you obviously don't have.
this minister who is flexing his literal muscles, also did it on factnet. he wrote about how he went to the gym and lifted weights and so on. he was doing the same thing there that he does here, you know the "I dare you to knock this chip off my shoulder', but he is literal. funny, of all the things he posted, this is how I remember him.
Sorry, Rev. Briggs but I am who I said I was. I'm a minister's wife in NTCC. I never said YOU said anything. I was referring to a large majority of people in our org. Think back to a conference not too far in the past. Rev. Kekel is the one who said that a lot of people in our org. look down their spiritual noses at others who are not in NTCC. I couldn't agree with him more. So, if you have a problem with what he said you better talk to him about it. As far as the pride issue goes, it doesn't take a much to see pride in someone. You come across as a big bully. Not the kind of leader I would want to follow. You said I sound like a woman. Hum, it seems as if my saying I was a minister's WIFE would have let everyone know that I am a woman more than the way I sound. LOL Yes, I am a person searching for the truth and wanting to get out because of all the things that were once wrong and are now okay. Excuse me, have always been okay. No, they were not! If they were okay they would not have been preached about at conferences also. I have taken psycholoy in college also. Yes, I went to college before going to seminary. I was on the dean's list. Big deal. That doesn't make me or you better than anyone-else. I have known a few people who were highly intelligent but had no common sense. One person couldn't even find they way around town without getting lost all the time. I would rather have common sense thank you. LOL About your saying I have been posting things for 5 years I think you need to check again. I just started to read this blog. I have only been commenting for a couple of days. Maybe you should check your facts first before you accuse me, and whoever CM is, of things. A leader finds out the facts first before he storms ahead. Weren't we taught that we should prepare before we do anything? Never Harm
I was saying that I was also on the deans list, not just commenting about Rev. Briggs saying that he was. I wanted to clear that up because I thought that he was going to see that and say I was jealous because I didn't make it on the list. Just trying to stop another nasty comment from him. LOL
Rev. Briggs, Your telling us of how many people you had in servie sounds way to much like when the Dennis' were still around. It was all, "We had this many in service, etc." Sounds like too much bragging. It brings back bad memories.
aNON Rev. Briggs, Your telling us of how many people you had in servie sounds way to much like when the Dennis' were still around. It was all, "We had this many in service, etc." Sounds like too much bragging. It brings back bad memories.
I SAY your groups continued harping about our dwindling numbers sounds way to much like bragging as well. My mention of numbers was for those who say our churches are ALL dwindling. Some do, others don't. ONe man quits, another starts. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Simple as that. Your cast of clowns told me that I had a handful. Of them in this group that actually entered a ministry I would venture a guess that not one of them EVER had a privildge of having that many attend their pastorates. Right! God is not, has not, and will not leave us as we stay faithful.
Well, I'll give you this much Credit. At least you will come out here and make an attempt to address some of the things that have been said out here. More than I can say for Les Contreras.
Part of the problem with many of the Ministers at NTCC is the fact that behind the Pulpit they are 10 ft. tall and Bulletproof and their power (What little bit of it they have) Begins and ends with NTCC.
Enough with the Ministers!!! Let's get Kekel,or Olson, or Davis out here and see what happens.
I will make a promise here and now. If any 1 of the above mentioned were to come out here.(Of course it would have to be verified it was them) I will keep my mouth shut, wait my turn, and not be rude to any one of them.
And Johnson.... if the Holy Ghost annoints their ministry... waht does that say about their fellowship? They choose to stay? How can two walk together unless they agree?
Jeff, why oh why did you allow this message to stay up. The one where he is advertisting the cult.
Folks with questions. research all about cults. Ntcc fits so many catagories it is scary!
Do not go to there so called service's. It is a love fest. Oh we love you. Come and be with us. There love is condition. If you " Get in" you will hear that. Or "get on Board",be a "member of the team". ntcc has so many sayinggs,jargon. Isn't this the best life,God is great!
Watch EVERYTHING they say. Look it up,study,and if you dare ask questions. ntcc and there ministers pride trips. Hate there authority questioned. As if a church member knows more then the,"man of GAWD! Your entering into the twiglt zone. the woman dress out of date styles,hair duo's that are so ugle,ratty hair. That most of them now wear hairpiece's,fake nail's,fake eyelashes. NTCC IS A FAKE!!
Briggs, you want questions. Why the Compromise? Why did Mike K. CANCEL Gods service. Take time for themselve's and rob God of there time?? Why are kids playing sports and games with TIGHT fitting pants. Like Grant wears! Why is one child in ntcc attended a school where tutition is 20,000. But ntcc says they can not help ANY pioneer works start out???? Mike K. himself could have funded many pioneer churches. Instead of taking money he got from the hard work of other ministers to send his privilaged child to another religions school!!! I bet he never soul-winned from that richy-rich crowd! And now,he did not get from hard work himself. He married into the family,POOR!! He got it all from rw and ntcc! And then he gets 39 acre's deeded to him From the church!!
lETS SEE,why is it OK for Mike K. to listen to country music. That is WORLDY music. My own my,what a slippery slope Mike K. is going down. Blue grass festivals,country music listening(devil music) watches DVD. I would say he has a TV behind a panel in his bedroom!
Students doing Gangster signs at a BIBLE SCHOOL graduation. Such a serious undertaking. And they are making jokes,funny face's. Such a somber time. COMPROMISE is in the mist!
But then ya'll have the gall to say NOTHING HAS CHANGED! We all know it has changed. Many of us have notes taken when rw was going on a tirade at conference's.... There is {PROOF. And Mike K. can not sweep it all under the rug. And the Kiss ups like yourself. Can't pretend that life is grand,all bussiness as usual.
I know your all loving it. A bit of normal life. That so many of us get to enjoy. Enjoy it while it lasts. You know ntcc loves to give and then take back. FLip-FLOP!!!
Gee,Briggs what is wrong with the OLD WAY? You like the compromise going on in this day in age. MIKE K. ERA! the old man is getting to old to controlling everyone. So your all getting your way. Compromise. Why did you stay in ntcc if the old ways were not Gods way. It is either my way or there is the door(rw words) Gee-,I think you were sticking around under the old man stepped down. You knew Mike K. would make it so much nicer. And POPULAR. Yeah,folks will come into ntcc now. You all are having fun,recreation is allowed,kids can play sports,family events are encouraged,members have POOLS,country music is fine. Sure that will changed as time goes on. Soon it will be soul music is OK,R@B..... DVD's are fine,TV shows are OK. If you HEAR Gods voice telling you what to watch and how much time to spend on the TV!
NTCC has not changed. In one sense. Your still a cult.
Briggs get a grip. Posting your church information is not a threat. I am sure your paranoid like your master rw is. Huge gate's,tv screen security,guards. That man is petrified. He knows what he has done to people and there damage done to there souls! I am sure he is haunted and nightmare's all the time! judgement will get him. if he doesn't committ sucide to get away from the horrible demons that chase him!!!
Is that happening to you! Sounds like your in the begginng stage's!
Why are kids playing sports and games with TIGHT fitting pants. Like Grant wears!
Because the parents make the choice for themselves. It's that simple. My daughter is in Karate that is MY DECISSION. But see, I will not allow her, though beautiful, sweet and tender to be a victim to anyone.
Oh and Briggs. I know for a fact that Never harm is a minister's wife. And a VERY devoted one! She tries to stay in subjection to her hubby! She has not tried to fight with her husband about leaving. She has stayed to save her marriage. LIKE SO MANY OTHER WOMAN. They are stuck in ntcc. I was stuck for many years myself! Thank God he used financial ruins to get us out of the ntcc cult. Without that happening we would still be in the cult,funding ntcc evil empire!
Oh and women in ntcc. Stop being your husbands door matt. Being in subjection does not mean he can TELL YOU WHAT to do. OR what TO WEAR. HOW MUCH MONEY you spend. As if he can spend what he wants,but makes sure he knows why you need money,as if!! Have the friends you want,he can not CONTROL your life! Oh and JUST because you may check out another church. DOES not give him grounds for a divorce. If he does,GET ALIMONY. He wanted you as a Stay at home wife or mother! GET All the child support you can. They want to get out and get another sucker wife to clean,cook,make sure lots of sex. Make sure you get what is DUE TO YOU!!
Why is one child in ntcc attended a school where tutition is 20,000.
Becasue his parents can afford it. Rev. Kekel pastor a large church, is a president of a large organization, is the Dean of a Bible COllege, runs the music, etc. etc. But don't fool yourself into believing that a man as smart as Rev. Kekel is not smart enought to invest wisely.
I've never known a CEO that was expected to work for nothing until I came here. Church people always scream about the need for quality in the pulpit and then they expect for the person to surrender everythin while they give miniscule. It doesn't work that way. He earns every dime he is payed in our organization, and suppliments with investments to make up the rest. Why is that wrong? More men should support their families that way but so many choose to play
Your Daughter is in Karate. Five years ago. I was in ntcc. Wanted my daughter in Karate. I would have been BASHED over the pulpit. Without naming name's. But folks would have known who there talking about.
Your own personal decision. That is good. How it really should be. BUT NTCC HAS CHANGED!! You know it,and I know it!
Gee,why doesn't Mike K. SACRIFICE and help out those Pioneer Churches. He has SO MUCH. THose that have so much are the ones that should help. Isn't that in the Bible!!
Where did his money FIRST COME FROM. Got married,he was dirt poor. Got a house didn't he! NEVER Pioneered a Church. The WA Church was BUILT for him. Local Churches were ordered to give up church members. With all the soul-winning that goes on up there. Most of the conregation is not made up of Church folks from the community!!
He did none of the work to get those students. What Work does he really do? All those [postions he got from MARRYING TANYA K. He did not get there on his own merit!
But then ya'll have the gall to say NOTHING HAS CHANGED!
First of all Ya'll does not include me. Things have changed and In some ways I have helped brings some changes but I choose to make my observations in a private forum verses public. I also know how to take no for an answer and follow orders when necessary. Things have changed but the standards have not.
You seem to forget that things like DVD's, Internet, etc. are brand new technologies that were not fully understood at the time. Pastor had a hands off attitude because he didn't fully understand them. Others took the time to research them, explain them, demonstrate them and another side of them was seen. He still doesn't like them but they are not going away.
I would add that none of the people on this blog completely understands the ramifications of this "technology" either. They freely research people, find out morsels and try to stir bru-ha-ha but it just might turn again and rend them someday.
Anti-Christian site. GIVE ME A BREAK! Many of us come on here to share our TRUE STORIES. Those of you still under ntcc fog HATE the truth. Because we are no longer Silent. In the past,folks left ntcc and had no way to tell the world about this cult. And warn others! Now there is a place.And SOO many folks now google and research on-LINE! Folks can now Flea ya'll like the do the JW and Mormons,and Amish. Ya'll have so many qualities shared by those three ORganization. Your all CULTS!
Gee,wonder why Mike K. will not update ntcc web site. Since the internet could help ya'll. We all know why,can't put up the policies that were SINS.
standards. Like the kids at the 4th july blast wearing hats on backwards. Minister's wearing tee-shirts! Country music is now allowed. Bluegrass festivals are now allowed.
No Way. your standards are falling under COMPROMISE AS WELL!!
Others took the time to research them, explain them, demonstrate them and another side of them was seen. He still doesn't like them but they are not going away.
Some call it research...others call it compromise...hmmm.
I didn't know NTCC had a "holiness" beta testing personnel There is a difference between not understanding something, and calling something sin that sends someone to hell.
Gee,Briggs what is wrong with the OLD WAY? You like the compromise going on in this day in age. MIKE K. ERA! the old man is getting to old to controlling everyone. So your all getting your way. Compromise. Why did you stay in ntcc if the old ways were not Gods way. It is either my way or there is the door(rw words) Gee-,I think you were sticking around under the old man stepped down. You knew Mike K. would make it so much nicer. And POPULAR. Yeah,folks will come into ntcc now. You all are having fun,recreation is allowed,kids can play sports,family events are encouraged,members have POOLS,country music is fine. Sure that will changed as time goes on. Soon it will be soul music is OK,R@B..... DVD's are fine,TV shows are OK. If you HEAR Gods voice telling you what to watch and how much time to spend on the TV!
NTCC has not changed. In one sense. Your still a cult.
August 17, 2009 12:36 PM
You are crying that we have changed the landmarks and compromised so you must want the old path?
You say we have compromised but DVD's, VCR, Cable TV, Internet wasn't even around in the 60's and 70's. They are new. all within a 20 year time frame.
Why don't you through of the shackles of the whole CHrsitian religion since it is one of continual change, modification, redirection, etc. Every age has had to deal with some new idea, battlefront, or whatever. And every generation has had to answer the questions where do we stand in regard to this? What will tomorrow bring? Don't know but the PT class notes taught "Never be the first in (fashion) and out of (fashion). And in some cases it applies equally as well in technological issues. Some things that people did in Vic's day we in mine could not... why doesn't the old ones in your crowed talk of that?
Fellowship used to be in the 70's they way it is now... so have we compromised if we went back to the original?
The need for permission used to be minimal at best in the early days and it is that agian so is that a compromise?
We still do not allow our preachers to go to Movies, own TV's, but should we put a limit on the size of a man's monitor? My kids have a Wii is that sin?
Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. You see compromsie yet I see advancement, progress, Life not death and stagnation as some try to assert.
Jesus once said
Luk 7:32 They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.
Luk 7:33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
Luk 7:34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!
No matter which way we go people will never be satisfied.
Which is why I tell folks that are still in ntcc. ENJOY it while it last's. Watch out it will FLIP-FLOP back. Because if fellowship was different in the 70's. Why did it change. And why is less permission required now. Then a few years ago. None of us were unruly,bad influence's to be around. We followed rw word to the TEE!
Just trying to catch up with the time's!! Still got another Thirty years to go!
There is a difference between not understanding something, and calling something sin that sends someone to hell
PASTOR NEVER said the DVD would send someone to Hell.
He Never said the Internet would.
He said Why would a Chrsitian WANT to watch them, or use it.
Young, unlearned, inexperienced preachers went around preaching as sin, something they thought they understood. That was wrong. I took psychology classes so that I could be a better PASTOR. I wanted to be able to give good Scriptural advice as well as wound Psychological advice. I wanted to learn real skills as a councellor so that I did not have to refer people to outside sources when they would not listen to the Bible. THAT IS ME that is my heart. Some choose to council from their head alone. I feel for them, I hurt for their people, but I do not answer for their CHOICE. I answer for mine. I follow the adivce of my elders and read, and read to increase understanding. I have had discussions with Pastor in person, and Rev. Kekel where we talk of subjects that we each had differences of opinon about and I never got blasted for it. Or Shot from the pulpit. But I approached them with respect and talked with respect.
There are right ways and wrong ways to do everything. You can be ever so right and ever so wrong all at the same time. ANd this method of reasearching web sites as Jeff does to scoure for "evidence" is wrong even. It is GESTAPO at worst and Bully at best.
rw ways are NEVER WRONG. His way or the highway. He can't remember when he last SINNED! AS IF!
Ntcc in today's era. is you can listen to God and he will guide your life. Five years ago. Before ntcc lost alot of folks. Something they thought would never leave! Like the Rickerts,Shunks..... Now it is DAMAGE CONTROL time. We are a much kinder,gentler ORganization. We really care about folks. We are not going to SHUN you if you leave ntcc. Come as you are,members can WATCH TV! DVD's are fine.
How many conference's I came out of. Where rw BASHED AND BASHED computer's.DVD's. Yes,he knew very little about them. But said,what did you need a computer for. So if the MASTER had no need for one. Of course we need to emulate our live's after the master. He took no vacations,so why should I. He bashed people over the pulpit,so should I...... Took folks out of the military. That have no brain,used to following orders. Molding clay for rw and now mk. He is rewriting history now. And your all lapping it up. Like nice little brainwashed puppies!
Never Harm, Do not e-mail this dude. You know what you will get. Double talk,we love you,don't leave. if you leave,the enemey of your soul will get you. why would you want to leave ntcc. Nothing but worldy sin out there for you. And a world full of compromised Churches.
Please bro. Briggs stop posting. I know that it makes you feel so good having such a crowd on sundays but it is not because of you, I know that you've heard pastor preach that it is up to the leader to reach higher and higher and so on and so forth but you need to remember that it is God who is allowing you to have people. Don't get that attitude that you are the reason these people come, because that place is not "your church" it is God's church. You are just a vessel. Just remember that Joel Osteen is Houston and he is not even preaching what you consider the truth and he is packing them into a stadium, so what does that tell you? I don't think is right as a pastor to be talking nonsense and calling people names, I know that it makes you feel good to vent with the people you consider the enemies of the Lord but just look at Jesus as our example when he asked his father to forgive those that were harming him because they didn't know what they were doing. Stop it brother and go pray or spend time with your family. Go and do something constructive that will further the kingdom of God. p.w.
NTCC Minister: I posted your message two threads back so it would coincide and correspond with the previous statements on that particular thread.
ReplyDeleteI didn't delete your message, I just moved it. I really don't want this fear topic to continue across each thread. You are entitled to your point which is why I reposted it, but I don't want that one particular topic to take total control of this blog because of course there are others who participate.
Please understand.
Respectfully,
Jeff
More about Giraffe's. We just took the kids to the Zoo. Great Zoo. The Giraffe's were so close. Could almost reach out and touch them. Was awesome!
ReplyDeleteMaking Memories! What are folks doing in ntcc doing? Do they even try and make memories with there kids? Or just shuffle them from church event to church event. Make them stay in children ministry until past 9 PM when a minister starts to ramble!
Go to babysitters for so called prayer meetings.
Do you spend quality time with your kids?
CM
When I look back on how my time was stolen, yes stolen, I see how although I was only 1 day's drive from home, I only visited once. When my relatives came to visit all I could think of was hair and pants on the women! My mind was not my own! I really said some things I now regret.
ReplyDeleteBut you're right- we could not have much "fun". We did not enjoy life- we saw it all through their "foggy glasses". They are very critical of people, not trusting them at all! They have a spy network that's faster than anything!
I really "feel" for those yet trapped within the borg. I thought I had a Biblical education- when I got out I was so embarrassed at what I did not know! They could not teach it- for they were riding "hobby horses" that they used to speak against at one time.
Hello Everyone....
ReplyDeleteIt's just my opinion, But I really think that the days of NTCC are truly numbered. Dwindling attendance, Churches being closed down left and right. I know that the Top Brass will make their Money, But I really think that the days of the Money Cow are numbered.
My Heart and sympathy's go out to the average person, Many of them who truly are Christians and love God.
I'm planning a visit up to the State of Washington next month and have thought about just anonymously going in to Church service and just see what happens.
Go MarkG Go!
ReplyDeleteYou know I would check it out in a heartbeat if I had a chance!
MLJ
Jeff I hope you don't mind.. But I've had some people from NTCC threatening me and posting over on my blog... I left them a nice little note on my blog now I am going to share it here. FYI NTCCers your moronic posts were all deleted and now you can't comment at all.. HOW DO YOU LIKE ME NOW???
ReplyDeleteAngie said....Because people within NTCC have decided to take aim at me (since I post Jeffs blog) and start posting rude things on my blog....I have shut off the ability for people to leave comments. My blog is in no way affiliated with NTCC. Had I wanted to have a blog like Jeff's I would have made one. But I don't. My blog is just supposed to be for me to post random thoughts, feelings, etc. This is not a blog to bash NTCC but you are NOT making yourself look good by posting rude comments on my blog. Lucky for you I have deleted them. But I WILL NOT put up with it. DO NOT think you can come to my blog and harass me because I WILL NOT allow it. SIMPLE AS THAT!
When you childish people grow up and stop attacking those who decide to stand up for themselves by posting their experiences and warning others about NTCC. And then go to our personal blogs and attack us... Then I will allow comments again on my blog. Until then you can find someone else to tear apart. And treat like crap. Don't even think I will put up with it because I won't. I am not an exer you want to mess with. I will not be bullied. And I will fight back. Try me if you must. But I am warning you now. If you attack me your playing with fire! STAY OFF MY BLOG IT IS NOT A PLACE FOR YOU WHO ARE GOING TO ATTACK ME TO POST. IF YOU WANT TO ATTACK SOMEONE GO ATTACK KEKEL OR DAVIS AND ASK THEM WHY YOUR LIFE IS SO CRAPPY, WHY YOU FEEL SO BAD ABOUT YOURSELF THAT YOU HAVE TO GO AFTER THOSE OF US WHO HAVE MADE IT OUT OF NTCC AND HAVE OUR LIVES BACK. Don't attack us because you are jealous. It isn't our fault your life sucks!
Again my blog is NOT for you NTCCers to post on. You are not welcome there and you are not allowed to post there if you are going to be rude. If you don't like it tough! Jeff's blog is where you need to post if you have a problem.
AGAIN MY BLOG IS NOT AFFILIATED WITH NTCC OR EXNTCCERS! Don't even think for a minute when I allow posting again that I am going to make it easy for you to post.
Compare me to Kekel (those of you who complain that he sensors his blog) all you want. But just remember one thing. My Blog is not in support of NTCC and it is not against NTCC. It is just a place for ME to post MY feelings, EXPERIENCES, ETC. I will not allow you to come on my blog and treat me like a second class citizen because you do not agree with what I am saying if you don't like it too bad! GO complain to GOD because I really do NOT CARE!
ALSO MY BLOG IS A PLACE FOR MY FAMILY TO BE ABLE TO SEE WHAT IS GOING ON.. YOU POSTING RUDE COMMENTS ON MY BLOG IS NOT COOL. YOU NOT ONLY TICKED ME OFF BUT YOU TICKED OFF MY FAMILY MEMBERS. Your lucky you did not say those comments to my face because I can tell you what I got family members that want your blood right now. It's all I can do to calm them down. I didn't even know I had the rude comments on my blog until my COUSIN called me! How RUDE and VERY IMMATURE OF YOU! Call yourselves christians and then you go attacking people like that.. NTCCers that are defending NTCC...grow up! Be the adult you supposidly claim to be!
Not using your heads are you?
In all fairness to MCKekel,
ReplyDeleteMaybe, just maybe he saw the error of Davis' ways and is trying to change what he thinks does not work for a 21ST Century Church.
Don't get me wrong, I am not justifiying what he does, but the guy IS smart in what he does. He appeases to the masses so that he may win over a few. I can see through the smoke and mirrors.
Mike may actually think that he is justified in what he does, in or out of church and that he is actually right.
I came to this conclusion while doing some rational thinking the other day, as a leader you have to look at all sides of a situation prior to making a decison.
I notice that it is easy to get caught up and being cynical with it all, but, make no mistake. Mike Kekel needs your prayers.
I think he wants to change NTCC for what he believes is the better. Again, I do not condone what he does, just a little surprised that Davis has allowed him to do what he has already done with the Org.
Bro Johnson
Mike Kekel needs your prayers.
ReplyDeleteSo True. He needs them whether he thinks he does or not.
Charles Spurgeon once made the comment that the greatest thing that a person could ever do for him was to Pray for him.
Something that has been on my Heart has been the Persecuted Church. I read a magazine called "The Voice of the Martyrs". The Gentleman who started that Magazine was in and out of Romanian Prisons for 14 years. At one stretch he was in solitary confinement for 3 years underground in shackles in Darkness so great that his eyes could not adjust to it and with no Human companionship. Something that he said that has stayed with me and that is....
Faith that can be destroyed is not Faith.
That just blows me away. I've wondered many,many times if I have what it takes. Maybe I'll never know this side of Heaven, But, Then again.....Only God knows.
Bro Johnson,
ReplyDeleteI don't believe MK is seeing the errors of his way. He went right along with it all. But on the side he has been listening to country music,going to Bluegrass festivals and who knows what else. He is only know feeling brave enough to do it out in the open.
Members still stuck in ntcc are lapping it up. tired of there ho-hum live's. Doing NOTHING but door knocking. What a life. Now MIke has made it Ok for kids to play sports. It is now Ok to listen to Country music. It is Ok to get DVD's to watch movie's.
No,he has not seen the light. He is seeing rw getting old. And he can get away with getting his way and Tanya's way. Sure this is how she has wanted it for sometime!
CM
CM,
ReplyDeleteSo, would you say that Kekel has transformed NTCC into a mainstream church?
After all, he is appealing to what we think a regular church should be.
I think he is a two facer. He blends in to whatever suits his fancy.
Bro Johnson
So, would you say that Kekel has transformed NTCC into a mainstream church?
ReplyDeleteProbably what he wants people on the outside to THINK. But, All of us who have had contact with NTCC aren't fooled by his Diversion.
Look, We're just like all the other Churches. Nothing to fear from us.
(That is, Until we get our Meat hooks in you)
NTCCers, and NTCC's ruling families, point toward other churches and say:
ReplyDelete"Look at other churches, we are not like them."
Then they get uncomfortable (predictably, and right on schedule) from the light of their own testimony being shined too long upon them, so they point toward other churches and say:
"Look at other churches, we are just like them."
pdq
Angie.....
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry to hear about all of the Problems that you have been having on your Blogsite with the NTCC Clan.
I don't know. Maybe they feel that because you are a Woman that you would make an easy target. I hope that you won't keep your comments section down for long but I understand where you are coming from.
What a bunch of Bullies. Just like a pack of wild Dogs or something. Can't do it on this Blogsite so they go for what they consider to be an easy target.
Let's see, the year was 1973, RW comes to preach in Tillicum. Subject matter- somebody is using too much toilet paper when they wipe- its abusing the Lord's house and resources. The world is dying and going to hell. Do they go door to door then and win them? Noooo. Do they preach on base or where the lost gather? Noooo. On the strre corners? Noooo! What is going on? Recruiting for Bible School to build an organization. "If you love God you would answer God's call and go to Bible School." Let's see... all other churches are compromised now. The PCOG has gone worldly. God's gonna raise up some who will never "compromise". There will never be any "politics" in NTCG. From the East, West, North and South, they will come.
ReplyDeleteWho did RW win to the Lord? Oh yeah- Sister Mitchell's husband was his project. He guaranteed that he was going to be "his buddy so close that he would have to accept Christ". Or was it soon-to-be Sis Apolinaro's future- to be ex? Oh yeah- that didn't pan out either. But the young kids in their 20's could be whipped into shape, yes! Intimidate by long harangues of speech and bellow blasts on the pulpit- oh yes, that's an anointing! Now that we've passed into our 50's we have maturity and can spot manipulation and the one behind the curtain who is just a man- called by God like we are! We are God's anointed- yet he "touched" us. Whazzup wit dat?
Hey Jeff,
ReplyDeleteI'm back from vacation we had a wonderful time. I took the family water skiing what a blast. I took my son fishing and we caught a bunch of rainbow trout. I'm thankful I have enough money to take my family on vacations. I'll admit I had to work some long hours at my shop but it paid off. It doesn't hurt anyone to work a little overtime.
I was at a National Cemetary this evening, scouting out a place that I will be in charge of rendering full military honors for a fallen LTC.
ReplyDeleteI recalled in conversations past that RW Davis bought a cemetary plot just for him, I believe it was around 20,000 dollars, which is what Kekel pays per year for Grant to attend school.
How can the poor, scraping by NTCC on fire for God preacher afford a $20,000 funeral lot?
There is hope! If you were in the military at one point in time and were honorably discharged, you are entitled to FULL military honors for free at a cemetary of your choice.
I highly advised you military veterans contact the local Fort national cemetary and see how much it will cost to be buried.
National cemetarys are actually very beautiful and are generally kept very well and have a high upkeep.
The one I saw near Fort Jackson was a National Cemetary. It was a beautiful setting, over open skies and very peaceful.
One thing is for certain: NTCC preachers, NTCC is NOT going to pay for your funeral. Starting preparing now!!!
Bro Johnson
Hey L. Travis: I'm glad you had a great time. You are right. It doesn't hurt anyone to work some overtime. At least not unless you are in the NTCC. You will often get blasted across the pulpit. The NTCC doesn't mind if you work overtime for them. It's always been that way with few exceptions.
ReplyDeleteAll the same, I'm glad you had a great time. My family and I went to a real nice lake in northern Georgia and stayed in a resort motel. It was a nice change. We spent a bunch of money quite quickly but it was worth it. It's nice to get away and show the kids a good time. That's something we didn't do much of while in the NTCC. I'll be doing more of it now.
Jeff
double-D,
ReplyDeleteAl (the barber at NTCC's Institute/College/Seminary) has been Pastor Davis most recent project for about the last 20 years. We are all given strict instructions not to 'soul win' Al, as Pastor Davis didn't want us to mess up all the 'work' he had put into him.
Al hasn't panned out either.
pdq
PDQ,
ReplyDeleteTwenty years to soul win someone. Imagine how that would fly at a soul winning meeting with the normal Joe.
Both Mike K and Tanya K. are chamelons. They will change to whatever setting that is going on. They will talk out the side's of there mouth. And then say something totally different to another person. How they never get caught is amazing. Folks know something is fishy,but are to afraid to say anything. Or else,THERE IS THE DOOR!
ReplyDeleteMMMM. Mike K. is like Obama. He wants to CHANGE ntcc. All he is doing is trying to cover up all the hurt ntcc has caused,the horrible past. Thankfully we are here. And he is not going to get away with trying to brush it all under the rug as if it never happened. It did,and the world will now.
Folks coming on here to check out what ntcc is all about. If your in the military or a civilian. FLEE!!! And NEVER WALK THROUGH THE DOORS OF A ntcc BuILDING!! Once you get in. Oh look there so nice,they love and care about me. All just a farse and for show! Once your in,then the rules start,you will start dressing different,styling your hair after the minister and his wife. Stop listening to "wordly music" All though Mike K. listens to "worldly music". You will cut off ties to your family,or they are tense.
Go find another Church. One that is not FAKE and a CULT!!!
CM
We are all given strict instructions not to 'soul win' Al, as Pastor Davis didn't want us to mess up all the 'work' he had put into him.
ReplyDeleteMay I assume that no one has tried to "Soul Win" on Al so R'Dub can't beg out on a Technicality with this one.
rw works with ONE person for 20 years. And FAILS. So when he gets up and screams. So who have you won to the Lord. Right back at you big guy! So if he has not won anyone to the lord,in 20 years. he is a FAILURE and not a LEADER!
ReplyDelete"Oh look there so nice,they love and care about me. All just a farse and for show!"
ReplyDeleteYes, Yes. They do like to "Love Bomb" people who come through the doors. Some of it may be the fact that there are not that many "Newbies" coming in because of the Internet and Blogsites where people can now freely access and make up their own minds about them.
It will be interesting to see what the future holds for NTCC. The Internet is their worst nightmare. I feel quite certain that they would love to wave a wand and make it all go away. Peace to all.
You know I just remember something about soul-winning. The pastor of this particular church would always use the graham church as the model of everything that was perfect, and every other day in his preaching he would use the
ReplyDelete"God has given us a beautiful church with over 1000 people every sunday morning" but he continued to say the same thing year after year and he probably is sayng this now, his comment never changed. He probably is saying this but if God was moving so mightily how can't they have more?
One time somebody from graham stopped by and the pastor asked him how many people or teams go out and soul-win and he said that well over 30 teams! If you can have so many people go out like that and you don't see people get in there is something wrong with the leader, that is what I heard rwd teach in the conferences I was in. Why can he blast the pastors that are out there wasting their lives away paying for the org. churches when kekel hasn't really brought that much harvest either?
It is sad when I would see so many pastors being told that they are not saved, or doing what god told them to do, that they were liars because they haven't won that city they were in for God. While these pastors would give every single cent to pay for the mortgage and still pay their tithe and escrow.
It just doesn't make sense to me how would they pay, pay, pay to belong to an organization and
when everything is set and done
the org doesn't give a rats tail when these pastors would be in need. Why can people be so blinded?
My prayer everyday is to pray for these pastors and their wives to have clarity of mind and see that they are living a lie and leave.
LOL! Probably why rw bashed,preached against the computer and the sinful internet. We were ALL going on the internet to gamble or look at porn. If we needed to look up some information. Then we should just go get a book and read. Folks now,read entire books on-line! He tried to squelch it for many years. Once they knew that they could not stop it! They put up a LAME web site. No Real information on the site. Oh ,look we are up with the time's. we have a web site,we blog. More Cover-Up!
ReplyDeleteIf you are going into a ntcc blding. these days. It is not the real deal. Sports for kids,country music,watching movie's,going on vacations. I predict it will last for a short time. then back to there evil,controlling ways. Do not be tricked!
CM
Maybe Al tried to soul win and win Davis to the Lord and failed!!
ReplyDeleteI would love to hear from Al's point of view, you all know that the Barber knows EVERYTHING!!!!
Bro Johnson
Hey can someone explain why NTCCers never take vacations? Is it not allowed? No money to pay for it? combo of both?
ReplyDeleteCM said....
ReplyDeleteI predict it will last for a short time. then back to there evil,controlling ways. Do not be tricked!
Jeff said...
I think you might be wrong on that one CM. I truly believe that the changing is really getting ready to start. We are just seeing the ground work being laid by K&K. Kinson and Kekel are the future.
Kekel and Kinson are just waiting for RWD to get out of the way altogether, ie die. When that happens, the NTCC will really change. Olson is not an issue. He will follow anyone. Olson is a follower not a leader. Olson would follow Grant Kekel if it came down to it. I am just interested to see if someone with some backbone stands up and preaches against K&K. Maybe Ashmore? He is a big showman so I doubt it. Jones? He is a yes man so I doubt it also. Johnson? He is too old and his family is too involved.
The NTCC is heading mainstream for sure. They are basically already there other than a few dresses and some long hair and no beards for ministers. The women have been dabbling around with jewelry in the form of broaches, extra engagement rings, serious designer watches, and shoes and clothing with every color of gem stone imaginable.
Mayers told my wife in a women's bible study that jewelry wasn't jewelry unless it was worn on the "skin". He also said that it had to be real gold and real gems. He said the fake stuff in broaches was not considered jewelry and therefor permissible to wear. He said broaches weren't jewelry because they were worn on the clothing. What a joke. Jewelry is jewelry and I don't care where you wear it. Ladies with two engagement rings who wear both at the same time? White nail polish can be worn now on the fingers and toes. Pants can be worn by women as long as they are exercising. A pastors wife told my wife that. I had two NTCC pastors who's wives wore pants to exercise.
K&K are basically sick of sneaking around so if they can get everyone else on board with their agenda, they won't have to worry about being called hypocrites anymore. Not only that it will ease their conscience. No CM. The NTCC has already gone past the point of no return. I'm sure about that. The old timers that remain will die hypocrites who perpetuated a double standard.
If I had to choose between religious hypocrite or outright sinner, I would rather die an outright sinner for sure. If we are going to be judged by God I wouldn't want to stand before God having played games with him and his sheep. If nothing else the NTCC just needs to come clean and admit to the double standard and claim that RWD was wrong all along.
Jeff
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteHey can someone explain why NTCCers never take vacations? Is it not allowed? No money to pay for it? combo of both?
Jeff said...
That used to be the case, at least as far as we knew. It's not that way anymore. Ministers are taking vacations now. They post pictures of their trips on the internet. The wife of one minister posted pictures of her at a college football game just last football season. There were pictures of another minister and his wife at Disney world. These ministers are getting wise to the NTCC trickery and many of them are simply doing their own thing now. Haunted houses, bowling, sporting events, Disney. There are more than one doing these kinds of things for sure. I know of four and I am not even in the NTCC any longer. For what ever reason these folks like to post pictures of their fun trips and events on the internet.
For that matter Sister Davis told the other sisters of a time where she and Tanya went traveling to keep up with Grant on a particular occasion. I think they said they went to Canada to catch up with Grant on some kind of field trip.
Sister Davis told of that trip during fellowship while in the Columbus Ga serviceman's home. If there are still NTCC folks who aren't going on vacations they are the ones loosing out because there are plenty who are and well they should be.
Jeff
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteI agree, NTCC has changed, and there will be no turning back.
This is a good thing though. All the 'old timers' (I consider anyone who has been in NTCC over 5 years to be an 'old timer', since there is such a high turnover rate) now have a 'valid' reason to leave...NTCC has 'compromised'.
Hopefully they are not too old to reverse the decades of deprivation.
Soon NTCC will become completely like every other church they aggressively preached against for the last 40 years. The sooner Pastor Davis dies, the quicker this will happen. The new folks will have it better.
K & K (Rev. Kekel and Rev. Kinson) can do the same thing to Pastor Davis (after he is dead) that Pastor Davis did to Pop after he died...ever so subtly slander Pop's memory.
They can act as if they tolerated Pastor Davis 'ways' because he was old, and set in his ways, and he was there first, etc. Blaming everything on the dead guy happens quite often. This is why it was so important to get all this information out about NTCC before Pastor Davis dies.
I would not be surprised if Rev. Ashmore is quietly seething at the way things are turning out...he has been so loyal, and has been reaching for the brass ring for so many years.
NTCC will shrink some more. Five years ago there was well over 100 'soul winning' teams which went out each Saturday from Graham, ten years ago graduating classes were about 60 strong.
Maybe they can close up shop. What's to stop this? The ruling families already have their 'nest egg'. All that needs happen for NTCC to cease to exist is for the board to decide this (the membership is never consulted, plus read the by-laws), and liquidate everything into other non-profits.
Grant can have Pastor Davis' home as a 'starter' home. He can stay there when he is on break from Yale University.
Your In Him,
pdq
pdq wrote...
ReplyDeleteGrant can have Pastor Davis' home as a 'starter' home. He can stay there when he is on break from Yale University.
Jeff asked...
In all seriousness: Does anyone know for "certain", where Grant is going to attend college?
If anyone knows for sure, please answer.
Jeff
Yep, Pretty much what I've been saying. Of course they are not going to admit to anything(We are winning....Right?) But I truly believe that they are in the fight for their lives as far as the Church goes. Just do the math. The numbers just don't match with what they are saying and you can only beat the church members for so long and then resentment sets in. Been there,Done that, Got the T-shirt to prove it. Later
ReplyDelete"Al (the barber at NTCC's Institute/College/Seminary) has been Pastor Davis most recent project for about the last 20 years. We are all given strict instructions not to 'soul win' Al, as Pastor Davis didn't want us to mess up all the 'work' he had put into him.
ReplyDeleteAl hasn't panned out either."
...nor did Lou Ricketts, Al's precursor back in St. Louis. He died an unbeliever, according to RW. I never could discover anyone the "apostle" personally converted, definitely not during the time I was around.
Not one.
"K & K (Rev. Kekel and Rev. Kinson) can do the same thing to Pastor Davis (after he is dead) that Pastor Davis did to Pop after he died...ever so subtly slander Pop's memory."
ReplyDeleteThey're not even waiting until he's dead to flaunt their disdain for his stodgier ways. They are tired of waiting for some degree of normality, and they know that their agenda is popular with the masses. RW is 80 and supposedly retired from active ministry, and he knows that K&K have the resources and talent to bust loose and do better on their own if he gets too heavy handed about their compromising ways. He's riding off into the sunset with a fat bank account, and they're getting ready to get even richer than he is, once they get rid of all the weirdness that drives people off.
It's a good development for the peoples' sake, but quite cynical in truth. Until there is some acknowledgment by these new leaders (because it will never come from RW) of the tremendous damage NTCC has done to people over many years, they will demonstrate that the change is only cosmetic. And even should they do so, it won't remove their guilt for being complicit in abusing the sheep.
I was chatting(Via e-mail) with a friend that is still in ntcc.
ReplyDeleteShe had this question. Why if we are disssatified with ntcc. Why not just leave and let bygone's be bygone's. Instead of the trash and hate talk.
That is what she considered it.Not me. I see it as folks finally have a voice. Where rw squeleched our voice's. With his stern looks,intimidation,fear,control. For me as a female. I am getting my voice back and feeling like a equal to men. And not below them. As if I should walk five steps behind the man and make sure my head was lower then his!!! NO JOKE!
This friend,does not understand that some of us. Do not want others to fall into ntcc trap. Become insnared and stuck for life. Or give up way to many years to a SCAM!
CM
if ntcc was such a great move of God, why would God deliver me from it?
ReplyDeleteas said before people confuse God with the location instead of His Word. Yes they preach the Bible and God will bless because of His Word, not because of NTCC.
Did not Paul say some preach Christ of envy and strife ? Yet He rejoices that the word is preached.
Also, how can it be trash and hate talk when it is the truth ?
How come no one called it trash and hate talk when Jesus pointed out hypocrisies and evil intentions ?
Why is it hate talk when Kekel hides and lies and preaches against things that he himself is doing ?
Why is it trash talk when Rev. Davis allows this to go on because of family instead of standing up to what he believes is truth and not allow the "compromise" to go on ?
will someone in NTCC please answer these questions ?
How is it not hypocrisy when it is preached DVDS and watching movies will send one to hell as well as shows one is not right with God and behindthe curtain they are doing these things ?
What doublespeak and lies has ntcc fed ya'll to where you accept what they said were only policies ?
"pdq wrote...
ReplyDeleteGrant can have Pastor Davis' home as a 'starter' home. He can stay there when he is on break from Yale University.
Jeff asked...
In all seriousness: Does anyone know for "certain", where Grant is going to attend college?
If anyone knows for sure, please answer.
Jeff"1
Hey, since when are kids up for discussion... shall we talk about yours? Use some decency why don't you
"Hey, since when are kids up for discussion... shall we talk about yours? Use some decency why don't you"
ReplyDeleteNobody's criticizing Grant at all. But folks are interested in the contrast between the upper crust life he's been handed and the struggles endured by the children of the proletariat. You can bet they'll try to keep his college plans a big secret, but one thing is nearly certain--his alma mater won't be NTCC.
CM quoted...
ReplyDelete"Why not just leave and let bygone's be bygone's. Instead of the trash and hate talk."
Jeff said...
Here is what gets me. When we write and talk about the NTCCs hypocrisy and double standards (which are both sin), many NTCC folks call it "hate talk". They don't call it hate talk when their comrades smear the name of virtually everyone who leaves the NTCC. NTCC folks just call that exposing their sin. NTCC folks don't call it hate when an NTCC pastor puts their church members personal business out across the pulpit and sometimes directly in front of a bunch of people but once again, NTCC folks don't seem to have a problem with that either.
They don't call it hate when Ashmore and half the other NTCC ministers talk about every church in the nation but when their church gets talked about they call it hate. I will tell you about hate! I "HATE" the NTCC's double standards!
The real reason so many NTCC folks refer to what we are doing as hate is because now, it is directed at them for a change, and they don't like it! It's not hate. We are simply exposing the NTCC just like the NTCC has been attempting to expose everyone in the whole entire world other then themselves. I have heard many, many NTCC ministers talk about every single Christian denomination imaginable but once again, they never manage to take a good look at themselves. NTCC ministers preach at everybody in the whole world and we are preaching at them, plain and simple. And guess what; they don't like it. Get a dose of your own medicine you bunch of hypocrites.
Jeff
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteHey, since when are kids up for discussion... shall we talk about yours? Use some decency why don't you.
Jeff said...
What child of an NTCC family hasn't been the topic of discussion? I've heard RWD talk about folks children and you didn't tell him that he lacked decency. When a young NTCC adult decided not to go to the NTCCs school of rules, they would regularly get talked about and the parents would get talked about also. The NTCC leadership has always openly considered the parents a failure, if their child didn't go the NTCCs school of rules. I have heard such subjects spoke of during conference openly and across the pulpit.
So why do we lack decency, you hypocrite? Just because we are interested in seeing what Grant Kekel is going to do? RWD has talked about many other NTCC children and questioned whether or not they were going to attend the NTCCs school, so why should we be any different? Oh, it's ok for NTCC ministers and RWD to talk about folks kids, but it's not ok for us to do the same? Is this yet another one of NTCCs double standards / do as I say but not as I do? NO DOUBT. All we are doing is what the NTCC has been doing all along and you can't deny it. We are just using a different platform. The only problem the NTCC has is that they can't shut us up any longer and they hate that they have lost control.
Jeff
Hey, since when are kids up for discussion... shall we talk about yours? Use some decency why don't you
ReplyDeleteGrant is not a kid, he is 17 - 18 years old, having his education paid for by NTCC tithe payers.
Sorry, dude, he is fair game. Any Preacher that spends 20,000 K of tithe payer tithes and offerings to send his son to go to a Private school to wear tight briches to play football which Davis clearly stated was sin opens himself up to ridicule.
You can talk about my kids all you want. It does not bother me, nor do I care, I know I am a good father to my kids, and they know that I love them all the same. I am paying anything and everything to get them the best education possible. I cannot afford 20,000, that is 2 followed by FOUR ZEROS after it, but I give the best I can. Also, they go to a Public School and I pay for them to go to summer enrichment programs.
My kids already have been taught how to pray, we have home service every so often. My kids can pray prayers that would put YOU, all seeing, all knowing concerned minister, to shame.
And they are only 6, 4, and 3 years old.
From the mouths of babes (my children) Jesus has perfect praise.
Bro Johnson
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteYour getting repeat hits from China. I am wondering out loud who it could be!!!
Bro Johnson
I'm sworn to secrecy on this one. I have the knowledge about the blogger who's hits are of oriental origin.
ReplyDeleteTop secret.
Jeff
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteIt is another comrade ha!
Ya, another comrade Vladimir Traviski.
ReplyDeleteJ. Stollins
maybe instead of all christians give in tithes in offerings kekel will have some of the brothers do this
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJefsQZ_gng
oh, i guess they are on tour,
ReplyDeletemaybe if they visit ntcc i'll go see them .
NOT!
not stepping in any ntcc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwfMMN71xUw
here's something for ntcc'ers who say women cant teach but tanya kekel teaches.
ReplyDeletepastor worship taught by a woman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvLIScwg7-s
Well, I'll watch and wait and see what happens after Grant Graduates from High School. But, If he doesn't go to Seminary at NTCC my question will be this.....
ReplyDeleteWhy is NTCC Seminary good enough for everyone else but Grant?
hmmm, maybe that is why all the changes.
ReplyDeletegrant has seen / experienced a different christianity from the rest of us.
so if he does attend the ntcc seminary, they are going to have to make it different.
makes me think now what did kekel tell grant when grant was in those services preaching against video games, dvd's, movies and such .
I would say Mike K. was telling Grant,those policies are just for the minister's. Not you son. Or that is just for the minister's kids not you. As if Grant is so much more special then my child or anyone else's child.
ReplyDeleteSame with the so called policies that are just for minister's. They are no different then the church members. We all go to Heaven the same way. So why live by different rules while here on Earth.
Just Rw way of keeping folks in BONDAGE!!!
CM
Actually,
ReplyDeleteIf Grant is not called to preach, that is fine. He has his own life to live and give account to God for his decisions.
As Kekel is a Multimillionare, he will sent Grant to the best school in the Area.
Hey Kekel, Harvard costs about 50 - 80K per year, where are you going to find the tithe money to pay for his education????
Bro Johnson
"We all go to Heaven the same way. So why live by different rules while here on Earth".
ReplyDeleteThere is a way that seemth right unto a man, but the end therof is the ways of death.
MLJ
"If Grant is not called to preach, that is fine."
ReplyDeleteI remember being Preached at, Talked to, and everything else when I was in St.Louis for not going to Bible School. I knew that just because everyone else felt called to go to Bible School didn't mean I felt called. But you couldn't tell that to them, though.
I feel quite certain that Grant probably won't feel any pressure if he decides NOT to go to Bible School.
Bro J. said...
ReplyDeleteIf Grant is not called to preach, that is fine.
Jeff asked...
The question is, how many people in the NTCC have ever been called to preach? Any? I wonder if any people in the NTCC have ever actually heard God speak? The real deal. Or a burning bush for example or did they just simply feel "compelled". I feel compelled to do a lot of things but it is not God.
NTCC folks get so spiritual. Ha! You ask them how they know they were "called" and their answer is almost always, "well the devil wouldn't put such a desire in your heart so it must be God". Well Jeff Collins is saying that "I'm not so certain". With as much damage as all these NTCC ministers have done it seems likely that the devil put his hand in the cookie jar at some point in time. The question is was it right from the beginning?
Called to preach? I would imagine the devil would have all kinds of fun when so many of these unwise NTCC ministers run so many folks away from God with all their unwise ranting and raving. Especially when they get up behind the pulpit and talk about everything but God. I remember Jones deciding to throw politics into his message one evening in Columbus. I guess God wasn't interest in winning many Democrats that particular evening because Jones would have certainly ran them all off.
I've heard Mayers preach about cats and life insurance. I heard another NTCC minister preach about reasons that we shouldn't love "Animals" and that people who are animal lovers are nuts. Called to preach? I have my doubts for sure. The question isn't whether or not Grant is called to preach; the question is if any NTCC ministers have ever been genuinely called to preach?
I'm not taking about a "feeling". I'm talking about the real deal. I'm talking about an experience like Paul had. Bright light, burning bushes, a loud voice, a real vision, an angelic appearance like the ones we read about in the bible. I'm not talking about feelings or emotions.
Jeff
Was Timothy or Epaphrodites called to preach?
ReplyDeleteNTCC Minister B.S., M.A.
You know I post these questions to generate real thought. The kind of though that would have prevented many of use from buying off on the NTCCs agenda before we spent so many years with an org that we now feel is quite corrupt.
ReplyDeleteYou see this is what happens. The NTCC teaches their people very early that "when" anything negative about the NTCC crosses your mind, (which it will) that those thoughts come from none other than the devil. They train their people not to even consider anything negative concerning the NTCC.
So what happens? We never gave questions such as the ones I posted any consideration at all because the NTCC leaders had manipulatively trained us so well. They are only copying what they've heard done by RWD, the master manipulator. That my friend is "exactly" how a "CULT" trains their people. To under no circumstances "ever" think anything bad about the organization / cult. And that is exactly why, (no matter how Kekel and Kinson transform the NTCC) it will always remain a cult. Because few if any of these NTCC ministers promote objective thinking.
They (the NTCC leadership) thoroughly suppress any negative thoughts about their church. Well folks, the NTCC had temporarily kidnapped my brain, but it escaped from it captors and now it is free to think logically and rationally once again.
Don't let the NTCC completely shut down your brain folks because they have certainly shut down the brains of at least 90% of their ministers and church members. The other estimated, revolving 10% wind up leaving the NTCC.
Jeff
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteI think your statistics are in accurate. The attrition rate is higher than 10%. That would seem low for any church group.
NTCC Minister B.S., M.A.
NTCC Minister asked...
ReplyDeleteWas Timothy or Epaphrodites called to preach?
Jeff asked a responding question...
What does Timothy have to do with NTCC ministers? If Timothy was genuinely called to preach does that guarantee that NTCC folks were called? Of course not! So your question had no relevance.
This blog isn't about Timothy. It's about the NTCC, and I strongly suggest that a whole bunch of NTCC ministers never heard God do so much as tell them to go the the NTCC at all, say no less preach.
Hey, I will take someones word for it. I'm asking any NTCC minister to testify that they heard an audible voice or saw a burning bush, or saw an angel or something tangible at all. Are there any takers, or did all of you simply get a good "feeling" about preaching, that you attributed to coming from God?
It's not wrong to "think" NTCC ministers. Don't get convicted, it's all right. You won't get struck down by a bolt of lightning. It's ok to think, I promise. Questions are ok. Questions are "good" not "bad". Trust me, you can actually answer questions. Big bad Kekel is not listening, it's ok.
Now concentrate, burning bush, loud voice, angelic being, dew on the fleece but not the ground. Did any of those things happen or did the NTCC convince you that you were called with no tangible evidence from God.
Jeff
NTCC Minister said...
ReplyDeleteI think your statistics are in accurate. The attrition rate is higher than 10%. That would seem low for any church group.
Jeff said...
The key word that you missed NTCC minister was, "revolving". The NTCC has a pretty good body of faithfuls that probably on any given day make up "about", 90% of all people in church. Either way, it doesn't matter. You understood my point.
Jeff
As an old timer, I remember that the pk's were considered property of ntcc and if they left to pursue their own agenda, like going to college or other thing like that, then it was said that they were
ReplyDelete"running from God"
I was in a service where this thing was preached.
"why would these pk's go on and try to get education and try to better themselves?
It was just of the devil because when they go out of the security of ntcc they for sure want the world and the devil would just so mess up their minds with all that junk that is taught in the schools they would lose up with God."
I wonder if this type of sentiment is going on in the ntcc now with the old timers that are still in.
I wonder if these old timers want to change their ways for the sake of continuing with ntcc?
I've once heard a wife of a board member disparage the son of pastor who wanted to go to bible school and then decided to get married and then he had a child and couldn't go, then he was preparing to go again and the wife got pregnant again, so the last time I found out he, this pk, was just attending his father's church, but the thing was that this young man was just "running from the call of God" that is what this board member's wife said about him.
I wonder if this same label would be put on grant when he goes on to college.
You're right. My husband, before we left NTCC, vehemently rejected my desire for our daughter to attend college or some kind of trade school after high school. His plan for her was to go to NTCS and get a preacher brother for a husband. That was his sum total for her future plans. He felt that her going to a seculiar school was tantamount to giving her to the devil. Needless to say, this was one of our biggest disagreements while in NTCC. Understand that I too desire a wholesome life for our daughter and would be delighted to see her attend a Christian college that happens to offer a real degree that can be used for real employment. NTCS was and has always been a joke to me. My point is that my husband somewhere along the line had bought into the notion that seculiar schools were of the devil and NTCS was the only way to go.
ReplyDeleteYou'd better believe that everyone in and out of NTCC is waiting with baited breath to know of Grant's post high school plans. They're just too afraid to ask. Well the moment should be now or soon since most colleges begin their Fall semester shortly.
BTW. Nice diversion tactic on accusing Jeff of indecency by bringing up a kid (Grant Kekel). Didn't work. Better luck next time. Now back to the question. What is Grant Kekel going to do?. Inquiring minds want to know where their tithes are going.
Olive-G
Grant was a senior last year. He should be starting school somewhere soon.
ReplyDeleteJeff,
ReplyDeleteI received my 'call' to preach about 5 years before I ever started attending (or heard of) NTCC.
It was not via an audible voice, burning bush, etc. It was a voice in my head telling me, "I want you to preach." Don't ask me to explain how I new it was God, I just knew. This was the first, and last, time I ever heard these instructions, but why do I need to be told twice?
I had no desire to preach before this incident, and none for a while after this. But, I knew what God wanted me to do, so started moving in that direction. No one had ever put a 'bug' in my ear. The desire has come and gone over the past 25 years (currently the desire is there, and getting stronger) but the instruction has always remained, and I preach regardless of how I 'feel'.
So, I started preaching, but wanted a formal 'preachers' education, so I also started also looking for a Bible College. The ones I looked at were either too expensive for me at the time, and/or I did not agree with their doctrine.
NTCC's Bible College fit the bill...cheap, and I agreed with their doctrine. Although, I did not know anything about accreditation at the time.
I am still 'called' to preach, but I am also 'called' to take care of my family. NTCC would not allow me to do the latter, but I still get to do the former when the opportunity presents itself.
Having my cake and eating it too,
pdq
Fair enough pdq.
ReplyDeleteJeff
Good testimony PDQ.
ReplyDeleteI felt like Jeff's criteria was a little zealous when I read it.
All Christians have a call to service. Some are gifted and inclined towards preaching or teaching. I tried looking for Spurgeon's "Lectures to My Students" online to post some quotes from it but had a difficult time finding it. I think I have it in paperback somewhere. Anyway, he makes some good points about people being called. It is not all lights and voices, in fact I would say it rarely is. The church, the body of Christ, plays a significant role in recognizing peoples gifts and ordaining them towards that path of service. Remember Paul and Barnabas at the Antioch church and Timothy's gift recognition as well. Not to mention the criteria given to the church in Timothy and Titus for selecting leadership.
I will say this NTCC has a low view of the ministry and as such they accept and license people who I do not believe would qualify for service by the Titus/Timothy standards.
NTCC Minister B.S., M.A.
NTCC Minister B.S., M.A. said...
ReplyDeleteI will say this NTCC has a low view of the ministry and as such they accept and license people who I do not believe would qualify for service by the Titus/Timothy standards.
******************
LTravis said...
The reason for the lack of qualification is because some ministers push people into the ministry that should not be there.
I remember Pop Gaylord told a young solider that Bible School was not for everyone. The problem with pushing everyone into ministry is it could be disastrous.
NTCC Minister: As you know, I have become quite cynical where callings and gifts of God are concerned. I have met so many fakes that I now look for stronger evidence for such spiritual matters.
ReplyDeleteOne reason is because there are so many documented cases of miraculous events that are in fact chronicled in the bible. Not only in the Old but in the New Testament. Not only in the Gospels but also in the book of Acts. My criteria may be zealous according to your standards, (which I understand) but certainly not zealous according to Bible standards.
Look at the miraculous divine intervention that took place all throughout the book of Acts alone. We won't even talk about the "old testament" because the occurance of miracles were non-stop throughout a very good portion of it.
Does God only give folks indiscribable "feelings" anymore? Or do people interpret that these indiscribable "feelings" are coming from God when they are actually not? Who knows but I do know that you will know a tree by the fruit that it bears and I have met an awful lot of fakes in the NTCC and I don't believe they were "divinely" called to do anything.
Just because one of these phony NTCC leaders calls you to be a church leader does in fact not mean that God called you to be a church leader. That is a fact.
RWD called Denis and look what happened. That fact alone allows me to rest my case. One minute Denis was the best thing since swiss cheese and the next minute he was a "dis-fellowshipped, excommunicated devil according to every NTCC leader. If I would have questioned Denis prior to the split I would have been black listed and everyone knows it for sure, without doubt. RWD, Olson, Johnson would have sworn that Denis was the "MAN OF GAWD", "CALLED AND CHOSEN".
So you mean to tell me that I am supposed to believe that all these ministers who are in the NTCC were called by God? Just like Denis and all the other ministers who left with Denis during the split and they were all dis-fellowshipped by the NTCC. Saints one day and all devils the next. Called one day and cast away the next. Please, I have no problem saying that I am way smarter than that.
Lay hands suddenly on no man. 1Tim 5:22. The NTCC is terrible about that.
Those are some of the many reasons that I need more proof before I believe again in anyone who was supposedly called by God.
Jeff
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteI don't want to minimize the miraculous or the omnipotence and sovereignty of God but I think it is inappropiate to project the Acts experience as normative for the church today.
Let me explain. Acts transpired over a period of several decades. If my memory serves me correctly, approximately 25 years. (Maybe longer, someone correct me if you have a better timeline.) It chronicles the inception and spread of the church. God characteristically moved in special ways at the begining of something new. i.e. Israel leaving Egypt, Israel entering the promise land, the dedication of Solomon's temple, etc. He will also move in a special way at the end of this current dispensation / epoch of time.
So in Acts we have highlights of the Apostles (in the sense of being sent by the earthly Jesus)ministries, a unique position in the history of the Church. We have highlights of God's intervention in the establishing of his church. We have decades worth of miracles transpiring over large geographical areas all being recorded in a very concise record. This allows for the appearance of miracles to seem more normative than they are.
The desire for the miraculous is the source for much of the chenanigans you claim to despise. Think of the Benny Hinn's of the modern church world. The charismatic movement, etc. Much of it is the fabricating of the miraculous.
I believe God has, does and will continue to perform miracles but I choose to leave that to his discretion. To expect such prior to believing or receiving truth kind of puts us in the place of doubting Thomas.
NTCC Minister B.S., M.A.
NTCC Minister said...
ReplyDeleteI don't want to minimize the miraculous or the omnipotence and sovereignty of God but I think it is inappropriate to project the Acts experience as normative for the church today.
Jeff said...
I understand your point. I really do. I don't like the shenanigans and you are right about that. I also don't think it is good to assume that God will no longer do miraculous things. When churches like the NTCC assume that, they quite often decide to do their own miraculous things, while claiming they are of God when they are actually not.
Like the "callings" of God for example. The Bible says that God is not a man that he should lie neither the son of man that he should repent. These men in the church can't take the place of God to call people to different spiritual offices if God hasn't so directed.
Then when someone like Denis says that the NTCC is corrupt and he takes a bunch of ministers with him, the NTCC says he is a devil. Did God repent, or was Denis never called, or did the NTCC become more corrupt and that fact was recognized by a devil like Denis who was actually never called to start with?
What you are doing NTCC Minister is settling for a whole lot less than what God is capable of. I've concluded that because many other NTCC folks have settled for the same, the result has been a whole bunch of shenanigans to take the place of the "real deal".
Not only that, lets draw a whole different angle on this subject. Look at Judas Iscariot. He was certainly called by Christ. He also certainly became quite confused and misled by satan. Just because Judas was in fact called, would you have kept following him to betray or when he betrayed Christ? Many of us see many NTCC leaders as Judas's but the question is, (as it pertains to this subject) were they ever called to start with. I guess there is no way for any of us to know for certain but even if they were called, I won't follow the likes of Kekel no more than a Christian should follow Judas Iscariot.
Kekel insulted all of us when he referred to all of RWDs "mandated rules" as merely "optional policies". That was totally insincere and disingenuous and a willful lie. The rules may have been only optional policies for Kekel, (because RWD is his Dad) but for the rest of us, RWD's rules were mandates and certainly not optional, but said by RWD himself to be punishable by eternal damnation if violated. The fact is Kekel has been around the NTCC enough to know this so therefor he has lied and can no longer be trusted.
Was Kekel called? Who knows but I have serious doubts, and even if he was, he has become a Judas in my book and many others.
Jeff
I believe that God can, and does preform Miracles, But they are the EXCEPTION, and NOT THE RULE!
ReplyDeleteMark G.
ReplyDeleteI would agree. So the way I see it the NTCC should stop trying to turn something into a miracle that is not.
Jeff
I will say this NTCC has a low view of the ministry and as such they accept and license people who I do not believe would qualify for service by the Titus/Timothy standards.
ReplyDeleteNTCC Minister B.S., M.A.
NTCC Minister,
Well, that comment, although a thoughtful and cadid observation, blew me away.
Go Retro back 10 years ago. I had been told by Rev Macdonald at the time that he would NOT recommend me for Bible College. This is when I was stationed in Korea.
So I keep on extending my one year tour to up to six years in Korea, and what do you know? Rev MacDonald states that he would have no problem giving me a letter of Recommendation to attend NTCC Bible College.
The only reason why I stayed in Korea was that, I thought he had the heart of God and my best interests in mind. I thought if said I was doing a good job that I had God's stamp of approval. I acutally thought that God through the Holy Ghost spoke through him.
Then, I marry a Sister in the Org, she first sees the evil of NTCC's ways, then I do, then we leave NTCC gradually over a period of years.
So what your telling me is, folks like Gandy are recommending people to go to Bible College who are not even called like Dave and his wife? (Junction City, KS).
I think I will call Gandy and have him explain that to me, I want him to explain what happened to his "recommendations to Bible College students". That also includes a proud nut named Bro. Daughtery. Have not heard from him either.
Bro Johnson
"The desire for the miraculous is the source for much of the chenanigans you claim to despise. Think of the Benny Hinn's of the modern church world. The charismatic movement, etc. Much of it is the fabricating of the miraculous."
ReplyDeleteMinister, there is no need to think of BH when RW comes more readily to mind. We lapped up the "apostle's" tales of: God's visible glory and audible voice, numerous angelic visitations, gifts of healing sufficient to open the ears of a boy born deaf and to instantly restore compound fractures, gasoline supernaturally multiplied in the tank as he drove his car to an evangelistic campaign, personal and threatening encounters with the Devil himself (as if he was so important in the world to require such attention), curses and terminal illness descending on the enemies of his "ministry,"...the list goes on and on. We sat on the edges of our seats raptly absorbing his yarns of titanic exploits and Devil fighting ways. Because we wanted more than the typical American church experience, which appears so anemic next to the miracles chronicled in Acts and the gospels, we were easy marks for such a master manipulator. A combination of youthful zeal and naivety made us putty in his hands.
As we examine the fruit of his ministry in retrospect, however, these accounts ring hollow. Now I am skeptical that he has ever been anything but a narcissistic con artist. At least I hope that is the case, because otherwise, it means that he has sunk to the level he now occupies. Better to have never known it than to have forsaken the right way.
Minister, do you believe all these stories? I'm not the only one that heard them right from the horse's mouth.
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteI do unnderstand what you are saying concerning people being called to Bible College. My personal belief is not everyone is called to go to Bible School, sometimes God just wants you to be faithful in the community where you reside. Sometimes he wants to you to be an Elijah, John, or Jonah where you are at.
I'm not knocking education( I almost had a degree in Theoolgy..but I changed my major not trying to brag just fyi. BTW an NTCC Pastor was more than happy to tell me my education was worthless, even though I had an internship and earned college credits through a major Pentacostal University),however; I don't think everyone needs to go to school just to preach. To actually Pastor someone I think you do need a license for sake of accountabily and gravatas.
The Book of the Bible says many are called, but few are chosen. The key word in that phrase is chosen.
Nellashara
rats.. my above post is full of grammatical and spelling errors...I think I need more sleep LOL.
ReplyDeleteVic..
I have seen with my own eyes healings in NTCC. I saw a Pastor in the serviceman's home bless a Sister with oil and God healed her of her malady(it wasn't a headache either.)
It all depends on God's watch...not man's.
Nellashara
"I have seen with my own eyes healings in NTCC."
ReplyDeleteI didn't say no one has ever been healed in NTCC. I said I am skeptical of RW Davis' over the top claims regarding his own ministry, and the fact that someone may have been healed in an NTCC service doesn't change that.
You want a miracle?
ReplyDeleteI give you a few.
I woke up this morning, alive. Many hundreds of folks died in their sleep and did not wake up.
I drove around with my kids and wife to the Mall and back safely.
35,000 people die each year on the roads here in America - yet I arrived back safely, another miracle!
Need I continue on??
Bro Johnson
I was just wondering. With all of R'Dubs wondrous signs and Miracles are there ANY eyewitness reports? I don't mean someone from within the organization, But an independent eyewitness source.
ReplyDeleteEvery time we get on this subject about him I always go back to the fact of how much of an Idiot I was back then. I can't believe that I actually allowed them to have so much control over my life. Some of what happened I am willing to take the responsibility for but not all of it. Not by a long shot.
Also, as long as there is breath in my lungs I will not allow Mike Kekel to rewrite history about NTCC. He can go and blow smoke up someone elses Butt because with me, That Dog just won't hunt.
"What is Grant Kekel going to do?. Inquiring minds want to know where their tithes are going."
ReplyDelete...why would Grant give up the family business?
Anon!
Anonymous asked...
ReplyDelete...why would Grant give up the family business?
Jeff said...
That is a very good question. One I would have to feel that I know the answer to as well. Maybe Grant will have a conscience? Just Maybe he won't want to get rich off of a bunch of struggling church members? Unless MC disowns him, (which won't happen) I don't think he will have much choice. He is the heir to RWDs estate no matter how you look at it. Grant is set for life. He's got the silver spoon baby.
With Tanya being RWDs only child, and Grant being Kekels only child, the wheels have been set in motion.
All your tithes, all your labor and everything else you put into the NTCC will ultimately become Grants when all is said and done. Whether you realize it or not all you NTCC folks are ultimately working for Grant. The NTCC is a Corporation and someones name has to go on it as the years continue to go by. Whether you like the guy or not, RWD is far too smart to allow all his stuff, to wind up in someones pocket other than family. It will be interesting to see how all this play's out. I suspect that some of the old timers are going to get their feelings hurt.
Jeff
It really upsets me that the leaders in NTCC are trying to tell us that NTCC hasn't changed. I hear it over and over that the things I was taught were not from the leaders but from the individual pastors, etc. Hog wash! We heard it at conference also! If it wasn't what they wanted us to believe they would have said so. I'm tired of being lied to. Just tell the truth about changing the beliefs don't act like it's been like this all these years. I've been around too long to not know the truth. Never Harm
ReplyDeleteThere is NO calling to go to Bible School, there is a desire. Nowhere in Scripture do you read of a calling to School. The calling to the ministry is what is, and always should be, first and foremost in a persons mind.
ReplyDeleteI desired to go to school to learn about the Bible so that I could find my place in the work of God. Be it active ministry, laity, help, whatever. Bible College to me was a starting place - a means to an end if you will, and not an end in and of itself.
You fail to remember that our Doctrinal Statement says Ordained Ministers must first show a definite calling on their life. Most students graduate, get licensed and go no further. They work, love God, help, but don't necessarily show the tell tale signs of a called minister of the Gospel. And therefore never get recognized in ordination.
Why do you folks willingly neglect to mention that? Oh, well I guess its because many of you never went in the first place. And those that did never thought about it before going. If you went because someone "made" you do it you fall into the category of a "manpleasure". You condem yourself before you open your mouth.
I love the absurdity of your blog Jeff. You mention everything and say nothing. You discredit your own points and your too blinded by your own self love to see it. You think you have arrived - your Cheif after all. Smarter than all... do you know the church I attend has a Phd in it? 3 or 4 people with Master's degrees. THree School Teachers. Are these folks blinded? Un-learned? Less intellegent than yourself?
You tout your experiences yet you forget that you stayed for 20 years. Whose the dumb one now? Who was the fraud? Who lived the lie? I can't listen to a man that sits back and decries all of the injustices that he saw for such a long period of time and didn't have the back bone to do something sooner. Why didn't you? Because there was nothing to do! You're gripes came as you grew big in your own eyes.
Why not tell the truth, that's what led to your departure. You saw a new pastor that you thought you could push around. You dropped hints here and there about how long you had been around, and what pastor's you had been under, and how much you knew trying to keep the man subservent to your will. And when it failed, and he got up and said he was going to have to get rude.. you didn't like that he would use your own tactic on you.
Getting back to the Call of God it is on the profession of the individual and the recommendation of the pastor. If they met the criteria and show a reality they are allowed to go. DO you have a litmus test that would determine if the person is a suck up, cheese eating, person trying to make others think them to be something or a true child of GOd with a heart for His work? Because if you have one I would love to hear it.
funny thing. right after Dennis split the Org.
ReplyDeleteThe next conference there was a huge amount of minister's "ordained". We were not able to make that one. But minister's works that were worse off then ours was at the time. Got ordained!
Having a degree does not make you immune to falling for the fake love line. ntcc is the last hope for the world line. We got holiness,"reality".
Most folks still hanging around are suck-ups,brown noser's,two faced brainwashed cult members!
Same Ole'same ole' lets try and smear there name. Folks got on Tracy's blog and tried to do the EXACT samething!!!!
To bad your scared! Ntcc is losing numbers,graduation classes are shrinking. But ntcc is winning!!yeah right!
CM
Well, my church is growing go figure! Are you a little jealous you didn't get the nod?
ReplyDeleteOH NOW! No jealous over not getting the nod from the big so called leader,rw.
ReplyDeleteJust amazing how right after dennis splits the church. Men that supposedly had proven themselve's. I know one of those men had no tithe payers. Big litmus test by rw. Sunday AM and a Bible study with hardly anyone coming . And he was Ordained?
As if they have some kind of proving themselve's before getting Ordained. It is just for looks. The bible school certificate is just for looks. Useful anywhere else,no!
Your church may be growing. While many of the other's care closing there doors. ANd as other folks get out from under the fog. Realize the policies that were SINS. Rules changing just because Mike K. wants to live a NORMAL life. Like us that have escaped do EVERYDAY!
More will jump ship,Lord willing!
CM
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteYou tout your experiences yet you forget that you stayed for 20 years. Whose the dumb one now?
Jeff said...
When did I ever say I had been in the NTCC for 20 years? Never. Now who is the dumb one? Assumptions are the mother of all screw ups which you have just proven to very good at. Not only did I not say that I was with the NTCC for 20 years, I wasn't with the NTCC for even close to 20 years. I questioned every one of the last three pastors that I had. I was with one for about 20 months and left his church. I thought that there was just something wrong with that guy and the leadership just couldn't see it so I went to another NTCC church. That pastor didn't stay around long, moved to start a new church and was replaced. To make a long story short, I figured out after the third one that they were all messed up and I took my family out of the NTCC for good with no objections from my wife.
Once again I never said that I was in the NTCC for 20 years. Mr. Smarty pants, you read into what I wrote and you read into it WRONG. You guys and or gals that come on this blog to jump all over me always get your facts all messed up and in the process, make yourselves look like the foolish ones.
Anonymous wrote...
You're gripes came as you grew big in your own eyes.
Why not tell the truth, that's what led to your departure. You saw a new pastor that you thought you could push around. You dropped hints here and there about how long you had been around, and what pastor's you had been under, and how much you knew trying to keep the man subservient to your will. And when it failed, and he got up and said he was going to have to get rude.. you didn't like that he would use your own tactic on you.
Jeff said...
My gripes grew as I became big in my own eyes? That was an absolutely stupid statement, and once again totally wrong. My gripes grew as I became very aware that these so called, "called" NTCC ministers were a bunch of fakes. They gave the most bogus explanations to questions, that I have ever heard in my entire life. One of them didn't even know the bible basics, the other was a thorough yes man who "wouldn't" think on his own, and the other was probably the sorriest NTCC leader/preacher that I have ever met.
Keep a pastor subservient to my will? Once again a stupid statement. I never tried to keep him subservient to my will but when I realized that he had no leadership skills I certainly wasn't going to be subservient to his will. I don't follow a follower who can't think logically on his own. I don't listen to someone who tries to teach the bible but it is obvious that he doesn't know it himself. I don't follow someone who listens to someone tell him to become rude just because he had taken a church of about 80 and turned it into a church of about 9 and as a result he became desperate. Now the guy is a pastor again. What a joke.
Your analysis of me is thoroughly warped by your inability to think on your own just like the three pastors that I had.
Lastly you said that I didn't like that he would use my own tactics on me.
None of them to include the last one was capable of using my tactics because none of them could think on their own. They all believed the NTCCs twisted slant on Christianity and as a result weren't capable of using any tactics, other than the NTCCs tactics which were certainly not my tactics. That is why I questioned their bogus practices, (which were the NTCC bogus practices) as much as I did.
So I have concluded that you have completely mis-characterized me because you have no clue what in the world you are talking about which is par for the course where most NTCC people are concerned.
Chief
Some steady hits are coming from around the Houston area for quite a few days now. We must have some new fans. Something tells me they are anything but "fans". Of course it wouldn't take a genius to figure that out. Hopefully I'm wrong and they are fans. No matter.
ReplyDeleteChief
Anonymous Briggs from Houston Tx said...
ReplyDeleteSo tell me Cheif, were you or were you not in Kileen back in the 80's? DO that math.
Jeff said...
Like I already said; assumptions are the mother of all screw ups. Your math is skewed because you don't know the whole equation. And guess what? Being that I don't answer to you and I am confident of who you are, I won't explain how your "math" got "totally" botched up. Know this, you math is botched up because you "don't" know the whole equation. Your math is about 10 years off. Go figure Mr. Mathematics major. Are you taking any classes in math? Are you attending a secular College? I figured I would ask you, (before I made assumptions like you do) so that I can get my facts straight.
Briggs: Your church (the NTCC) is totally corrupt and you are a control monger and you're abusive"!!! "Repent of your abusive, controlling ways and learn to talk to people in a respectable manner and get off your high horse for you are just like a pharisee, because the NTCC has you blind as a bat".
Jeff
I've never seen an Anonymous who has the ability to write so much, But yet say so little.
ReplyDeleteSo you say that you heard a voice that was so close to audible that you could hear the vibrations? I'm not going to dispute you, But why stop there? R'Dub doesn't.
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteIts interesting that in NTCC when church members were complaining about abusive Pastors in the org. the "voice of God" was strangely silent. The "vibrations" of silence were deafening (and blinding too).
Anon!
"Pastor Davis and a few faithful associates gave of their own lives and livelihoods to walk the jungle trails of Southeast Asia during a volatile era, while America was at war abroad, before many of us ere born. they hazarded the risks of hostile territory that had at one time been the exclusive property of Satan, going hungry and doing without on a shoestring budget in order to preach the gospel to American fighting men far from home and farther still from safety"
ReplyDeleteAnd you know what? He has more than been compensated for the 4 years that he spent in the Philippines. He is a Millionaire many, many times over and all of this being done on the backs of Servicemen like myself and others at different points and time.
He'll get no sympathy from me. I want to make that crystal clear.
He has had many,many more times of good than he has ever had bad since then and it has been on the Servicemens dime.
Vic,
ReplyDelete"We lapped up the "apostle's" tales of: ☺ [we sure do/did, great tales]...
...God's visible glory ☺ [don't remember this one, although Pop used to talk and preach about God's visible glory so often, maybe this memory was diluted]...
...and audible voice ☺ [heard this one many times],...
...numerous angelic visitations ☺ [heard this one many times--plus, Rev. LD Jones tells his own personal tale(s) of this],...
...gifts of healing sufficient to open the ears of a boy born deaf ☺ [heard this one many times]...
...and to instantly restore compound fractures ☺ [don't remember this one, but Pastor Davis always says so much good about himself, and has so much good said about him, that I don't ever recall it all in one sitting],...
...gasoline supernaturally multiplied in the tank as he drove his car to an evangelistic campaign ☺ [heard this one the second most often],...
...personal and threatening encounters with the Devil himself (as if he was so important in the world to require such attention) ☺ [don't remember this one, but there is always so much talk about the devil fighting, by NTCCers, that this memory may have been diluted also],...
...curses and terminal illness descending on the enemies of his "ministry," ☺ [Heard this one ad nauseam; from Pastor Davis, the other ruling families, many other ministers, wives, and church members--at each conference, each fellowship meeting, most Bible College classes, most home visits, always at the restaurant...anytime we got together someone would bring up past judgments, and/or who the latest victims of God's post-NTCC wrath were. This is the most pervasive oral tradition in NTCC, along with the below paragraphs.]...
We all hear (over and over and over and over and over and over again, from Pastor Davis) how Pastor Davis has never missed God; all he does is by the Holy Ghost; he can't remember the last time he sinned; he hasn't sinned since he became a Christian over 50 years ago; he was here first; what have we ever done for God, et cetera...
Rev. Olson frequently emphatically states, “Pastor Davis is NTCC.” Rev. Olson is very rarely as emphatic as when praising Pastor Davis.
Rev. Jordan makes public claims (on Pastor Davis behalf, and in Pastor Davis presence) of Pastor Davis modern day Apostleship, comparable to the original 12; that he is first up before the throne; may be one of the 24 elders; God hides things from Pastor Davis; et cetera…
It has been reported, public comparisons have been made between Moses and Pastor Davis (in his presence).
Et cetera…
Thanks Vic,
pdq ☺
It is understandable that outside observers would suspect purely financial motives in the systematic, worldwide outreach to United States servicemen, but only if certain essential points of context are entirely removed from the picture. Pastor Davis and a few faithful associates gave of their own lives and livelihoods to walk the jungle trails of Southeast Asia during a volatile era, while America was at war abroad, before many of us ere born. they hazarded the risks of hostile territory that had at one time been the exclusive property of Satan, going hungry and doing without on a shoestring budget in order to preach the gospel to American fighting men far from home and farther still from safety. Concurrently, these men were reaching the lost indigenous people of Vietnam and the Islands of the Philippines (at this juncture, allow me to insert, for the benefit of anyone who cannot follow a train of thought, that the question is not one of worthiness as established by good works, but rather of motives as established by track record). Proceeding-It seems to me to be deliberately otuse (in reality, all of the misgivings represented by former ministers contain an element of unwillingness to see things as they are, to forgive, or to extend simple Christian grace) to suggest carnal motivations on the part of one so obviously devoted to the spiritual welfare of those whose lives are forfeit for the sake of their nation's security. the incomes of servicemen may be reliable, but they are also reliably minuscule. as to their ability to contribute steadily to the spiritual enterprise, they tend to be relocated with considerable frequency.
ReplyDeleteWould you like to know who said all of that and so, so much more? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
ReplyDelete"Would you like to know who said all of that and so, so much more? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm"
ReplyDeleteGo to www.ntccxposed.com and find some more interesting work by the same author, Brian Pelfrey.
Well, my church is growing go figure! Are you a little jealous you didn't get the nod?
ReplyDeleteANON, in retrospect, your church may be growing.
The last graduating class of NTCC 09
slashed gang signs in their pictures (of the world)
Kekel pays $20,000 a year off the backs of tithepayers so that his son Grant can play football in naughty football tighties (in the world). You cannot tell me that he makes that much off of his secular income (whatever he does) alone.
Kekel cancels 4Th of July Services (a monstrosity by Davis' standards) so that folks could "Hang" with him at his place (of the world). Like Kekel stated, "We had a BLAST"
Kekel states that once were NTCC rules are options and that it is ok to listen to country music (of the world)
Kekel attends Bluegrass festivals until it starts JUMPING too much (of the world).
Your church is growing because the leadership has compromised. They are of the world, and the wordly love their own.
The leadership is desperate. Desperate times call for desperate measures. If they do not change then NTCC die.
They may have had a walk with God 40years ago, but God and the leadership split ways a long time ago.
Bro Johnson
..gasoline supernaturally multiplied in the tank as he drove his car to an evangelistic campaign ☺ [heard this one the second most often],...
ReplyDeletePDQ, now that one really pulled my leg! That never happened to me during my ten years of faithful service to NTCC.
I guess I was not at that spirtual level yet, just a yellowbelt, Kemosabi! I had to pray for taxis to show up out of nowhere in the pouring rain to take me and my contacts to the church service!!
Much learning of Holy Ghost ways, I see I must do, Komrad Jeff!!
Bro Johnson
...personal and threatening encounters with the Devil himself (as if he was so important in the world to require such attention) ☺ [don't remember this one, but there is always so much talk about the devil fighting, by NTCCers, that this memory may have been diluted also],...
ReplyDeletePDQ, yes, I heard this little yarn too! It goes like this,
Rev Davis is walking somewhere and suddenly the devil appears to him in human form. The devil points to him and states "You will serve me". Davis is engaged in a titanic stuggle between good and evil. Davis' body starts shaking violently. He cannot help but move toward satan. Finally, he yells out the name above all names, "JE-SUS SAVE ME" and the devil vanishes.
Or the time Davis and a preacher were walking in a city and he heard a demon yell, "GET OUUTTTTTTTTT", "GET OUUTTTTTTTTTT" That the demon knows those who have the Holy Spirit.
NTCC Preachers and members, heed the advice of the demon:
GET OUUTTTTTTTTT! GET OUUTTTTTTTTTTT!
Bro Johnson
going hungry and doing without on a shoestring budget in order to preach the gospel to American fighting men far from home and farther still from safety.
ReplyDeleteAnon, I went physically hungry for almost a week due to paying money so my NTCC preacher and his wife could fly to Amerika and go to conference. (In order for them to preach the gospel).
It is quite humbling when your living on change when you give your all to the house of God.
It is equally humbling when you have to dig through trash to find morsels of food to eat.
At least my preacher and his wife were feed good and had a good time at conference. We have to take care of the Man of God at our expense, right???
Bro Johnson
First why did you delete all the other posts? COuldn't hang with the statments?
ReplyDeleteYou CHeif said Your interpretation of the near audible voice was, "This is where i want you."
Hate to burst your bubble but that was Brian Pelfrey that wrote taht on factnet in 2004.
DO I atten secular college, not anymore Got my degree 2 years ago, in Psychology no less.
Off by about 10 years, well I know I've been around 20 years and you were in church with people that came before me so do tell when DID you come around and why did you stay so long.
Big in your own eyes is a dumb statement you say? WHy not talk to God because that's exactly what he said to Saul.
Your a dork
Oh, and for the record I am in Houston
Gotta go, I have a baptism to perform this mornign 25 people go figure... should be days before we wither up and blow away.. ha ha ha
ReplyDeleteLooks like religous mud slinging from sissified wimps from NTCC
ReplyDeleteONCE AGAIN!!!!
Go back you non-believing Preacher and baptise your non-beliving members!
AND let the blind led the blind, the dead bury their dead, wandering stars...well, you get the drift!!!
Hooah!
Bro Johnson
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteDO I atten secular college, not anymore Got my degree 2 years ago, in Psychology no less.
"Your a dork"
Are you kidding me? You claim to have a degree in psychology and you’re a minister then you call someone a dork?
I don't care how many degrees a person obtains sometimes you just can't fix stupid.
ReplyDeletestu·pid (stōō'pĭd, styōō'-)
adj. stu·pid·er, stu·pid·est
Slow to learn or understand; obtuse.
Tending to make poor decisions or careless mistakes.
Marked by a lack of intelligence or care; foolish or careless: a stupid mistake.
Old Briggs, the pastor in Houston Tx has come on board with a bang. Because Mr. Briggs has the uncontrolable desire to debate exNTCCers both previously on factnet and now here on this blog, I figured that I would set the record straight.
ReplyDeleteBriggs the abuser / control monger, is the NTCC pastor who felt it necessary to have an armed brother in his church because he was afraid of an exNTCCer who he kicked out of his church. Briggs is also the guy who told me that Kekel said that God told Kekel it was ok to listen to country music. You probably remember this from a previous thread.
Now Mr. Briggs is coming on here and posting statements that Brian Pelfery wrote previously. Brian Pelfery hasn't so much as posted one word on this Blog to my knowledge, so if you want to post statements Briggs; post your own. I sincerely respect Brain Pelfery but I am not Brian and he is not me.
What you are trying to do Mr. Briggs is take Brian's statements and use them against exNTCCers on this blog and if Brian was the moderator here your craftiness might be prove to be effective. However Brian is not the moderator here I am, and all of his views are not necessarily mine. So if you continue to post Brian's statements, I will delete them. Post your own.
Oh by the way; you are calling me a "dork" now. You called me "asinine" and a "dodo" on the phone and now you are calling me a dork. Mr. Briggs: You are the sorriest excuse of a pastor that I have ever talked to. You have no business behind a pulpit. Your attitude and abusive character is exactly why so many folks have left the NTCC. You possess so few of the fruits of the Spirit chronicled in Galatians. You are a poor pastor at best, and you have no business serving is a Christian Minister. You are better equipped to serve in a league of street thugs.
Since when do Christian Pastors brag about how many people they are baptizing? Are the people in your church like hunting trophies that you hang up on your wall? I truly feel sorry for every last person in your church.
Since when did NTCC "pastors" start going to secular colleges while they are supposed to be full time pastors? You are the second one that I know of. So much for all that soul winning that RWD talked about. While you were supposed to be out soul winning and visiting folks, you were apparently doing your homework. Briggs you are a complete fake and so is the entire NTCC organization.
Jeff
Rev. Briggs is an example of why I want out of this org. I'm sick of supposed Christians that look down their spiritual nose at people who aren't in NTCC. Get a life! Let God get ahold of you and save you from pride. Funny how most people in NTCC think that if you leave you're not saved anymore. Rev. Davis left one org. to start another. If God can tell him to leave a church then God can certainly tell someone-else to leave NTCC and go to another church. After all, He always told us in school that God can talk to us just like he speaks to him.
ReplyDeleteNever Harm
Rev. Briggs is an example of why I want out of this org. I'm sick of supposed Christians that look down their spiritual nose at people who aren't in NTCC. Get a life! Let God get ahold of you and save you from pride. Funny how most people in NTCC think that if you leave you're not saved anymore. Rev. Davis left one org. to start another. If God can tell him to leave a church then God can certainly tell someone-else to leave NTCC and go to another church. After all, He always told us in school that God can talk to us just like he speaks to him.
ReplyDeleteNever Harm
this needs to be posted AGAIN! Hit the the target with this statement! So true!
CM
"..gasoline supernaturally multiplied in the tank as he drove his car to an evangelistic campaign ☺ [heard this one the second most often],..."
ReplyDeleteYeah, it was ostensibly just like the widow and her pot of oil. But God isn't multiplying any gas for the poor suckers that run the wheels off their cars in service of RW's little cash generating empire. As we know, the money flows only one direction in NTCC--toward the leadership. Any aberrations in this pattern are rare, and consist of the occasional bone thrown to some poor, broke sucker. These incidents are loudly trumpeted as evidence of RW's peerless compassion, even though he biblical rule when it comes to alms is that the left hand isn't to know what the right hand does.
RW is really an inverse Robin Hood, taking from the poor to increase the coffers of the rich. He's just another scammer, living in a five thousand square foot one bedroom palace protected by alarms, fences, and guards. But nothing can protect him from the One he has wronged the most.
Mr. Briggs: You are the sorriest excuse of a pastor that I have ever talked to. You have no business behind a pulpit.
ReplyDeleteWell Jeff, I Beg to differ with you on this one.(Tongue planted FIRMLY in Cheek) Keep in mind that we are talking about NTCC here, and not a Church where true "Holiness" really means something.
The Holiness at NTCC is what I would call a Pseudo type Holiness because they tend to focus on the outward, and not the inward. I'm not saying that there are not people there who truly are Christians, But I think that NTCC is a living example of the fact that you can have all the rules that you want, as well as attempt to legislate righteousness and Holiness and in the end you have neither. I'm reminded of R'Dubs escapades at the Church in Chrondelet, Mo. as well as the revolving Marriages and divorce rate, as well as other Sins of the Flesh that go on there as we speak.
I understand Mark. I've talked to many pastors in the NTCC and I really feel that Briggs is the worst and these are the reasons why.
ReplyDeleteHe is as abusive or more so than any NTCC Minister that I have ever talked to. He makes a habit of name calling. I've read an email that he sent to someone where he called them names as well. He challenges people to confrontation in a threatening manner. He did it to me and he did it in the email that I read which he wrote. He shows every attribute of a narcissist who feels that he must be in control people that he deals with. He is worse than RWD or any other NTCC pastor that I have talked with in terms of being a control monger. He not only shows no temperance but he clearly doesn't even try to. He shows no meekness and does not display kindness. He is simply a nasty guy who has no business as a pastor of any church.
That is how I see it. He is "the" classic example of why the NTCC is so thoroughly messed up. The NTCC just loves abusive, control mongers who are just like him. Guys like Briggs are the exact reason that blogs like this one have ever existed.
Jeff
JEFF SAID:
ReplyDeleteBriggs the abuser / control monger
I say: So much nicer than Dork
JEFF SAID:
ReplyDeleteNow Mr. Briggs is coming on here and posting statements that Brian Pelfery wrote previously. Brian Pelfery hasn't so much as posted one word on this Blog to my knowledge, so if you want to post statements Briggs; post your own
I SAY:
You quote Brian and Tracy and how they were attacked on their blog, I show you why…. You want to quote them….so quote all of it and stop being selective in what you want people to know about the information they read from your peanut gallery.
JEFF SAID: What you are trying to do Mr. Briggs is take Brian's statements and use them against exNTCCers on this blog and if Brian was the moderator here your craftiness might be prove to be effective.
I SAY:
No, your wrong. See I worked for Brain for a couple of years and had many, many personal conversations with him which he does not want out and which I will not air. I tried to engage him on Factnet many times and he dodged me. His wife tried her best but he would not so no, he wouldn’t do any better then you.
JEFF SIAD:
ReplyDeleteOh by the way; you are calling me a "dork" now. You called me "asinine" and a "dodo" on the phone and now you are calling me a dork. Mr. Briggs: You are the sorriest excuse of a pastor that I have ever talked to. You have no business behind a pulpit. Your attitude and abusive character is exactly why so many folks have left the NTCC.
I SAY:
Yes, I called you Asinine and your lack of understanding of the English language reveals this fact yet again. The dictionary say: as⋅i⋅nine–adjective
1. foolish, unintelligent, or silly; stupid: It is surprising that supposedly intelligent people can make such asinine statements.
This definition fits equally well in our conversation then as it does now.
Dodo isdefined as: defined several ways,
any of several clumsy, flightless, extinct birds of the genera Raphus and Pezophaps, related to pigeons but about the size of a turkey, formerly inhabiting the islands of Mauritius, Réunion, and Rodriguez.
2. Slang. a dull-witted, slow-reacting person.
In case, if your wondering, definition 2 fits you best (thought I would help you figure that out cuz I know your not so sharp.
JEFF SAID :
ReplyDeleteYou possess so few of the fruits of the Spirit chronicled in Galatians.
I SAY:
What are those fruits
Love…. Well lets see I think my defense of my flock, my friends, my family, and my leaders shows love. And my almost 5 years of personally dealing with your buddy shows I love as well as reinforcing my longsufferingness.
Joy… I love my life, my work.. so I guess I’m full of joy.
Peace … I am at complete peace… my failures are my failures not someone or something else (you folks are the ones in need of peace).
Longsuffering… I’ve already addressed this.
Gentle….. Gentle doesn’t mean push over or weak. You called me to harass me, and then when I give you more than you bargained for you cry foul. You fairy.
Meekness – Moses was the meekest man on the face of the earth but meekness is not wimpyness as dumb donald (aka Johnson) thinks.
Temperence…. I’ve never called any of you people. I stoped writing and dealing with your trash talk 5 years ago btu your still at it. Seems I show more temperance than you folks do.
JEFF SAID:
You are a poor pastor at best, and you have no business serving is a Christian Minister.
I SAY Don’t tell that to the 225 we had not long ago.. they wouldn’t buy it.
JEFF SAID:
ReplyDeleteSince when did NTCC "pastors" start going to secular colleges while they are supposed to be full time pastors?
I SAY: Since the advent of the Online Class.
JEFF SAID:
You are the second one that I know of. So much for all that soul winning that RWD talked about. While you were supposed to be out soul winning and visiting folks, you were apparently doing your homework.
I SAY: No, actually I never had to study much at all and I ended up on the Deans list with a 3.9 GPA. College is WAY overrated. And, the over 25 new converts show activity on my part. Do they come out of thin air? All by themselves?
JEFF SAID: Briggs you are a complete fake and so is the entire NTCC organization.
ReplyDeleteI SAY: My little bugger bear, you seem so cross at me. Why golly, you can tell I’m a fake from a phone conversation that you initiated to harass me and defame my friends and I’m the fake. You spend OVER 20 Years (I confirmed it this a.m. with a mutual acquaintance that was in church with you back then) apparently dissatisfied, angry, abused… in short, you were the fake. I’ve been the same for over 20 years. And I have documented proof of that from my online postings in 2004-5 and now. You on the other hand change as your little panties get in a wad. You’re a fool…… Tell me, why did your last Pastor state he had to be “Rude” was it for no reason at all or was something going on that he finally had to change tactics and approach the problem differently? My experience tells me that if someone says “I’m going to HAVE TO” its because what I’ve already tried has not worked.
Oh, and for the RECORD I was the person he talked to. Not RWD, Not Rev. Kekel, not Rev. Kinson. Little old me. So stop tooting your horn about “THE ORGANIZATIONAL LEADERSHIP TOLD HIM TO SAY THAT TO ME”. I am a friend of his that recognized he was too nice for his own good for your sake as you’ve already testified you had problems with your last 3 or 4 pastors and pulled your family in and out like a rubber band. Which, I realized last night as I drifted off to my peaceful slumber, shows you’re a mean, manipulative, abusive control freak that makes the decisions ALL for your wife regardless of what she wants. If you “Pulled” her out of church it tells me that she was resisting. Why else would you choose that particular mode of speech. I would think that if you were the gentle loving man you try to say you are you would have “LEAD” her, or agreed with her it was time to go. But no, you PULLED HER…. Sound like you view your wife more as a tooth than a partner.
Never Harm said...
ReplyDeleteRev. Briggs is an example of why I want out of this org. I'm sick of supposed Christians that look down their spiritual nose at people who aren't in NTCC. Get a life!
I SAY: Ha ha, so you can look down your spiritual schnozzle at us and it’s ok. But when we point out the blaringly obvious we are “wrong”. Get out if you want (which you know you already have done and are simply trying to fain a searching soul that is on the verge of departure. I think the scriptures call that dissimulation and it my utterly lost friend, is a sin.
NEVER HARM SAID:
Let God get ahold of you and save you from pride. Funny how most people in NTCC think that if you leave you're not saved anymore.
I SAY:
When Did I say that? I think there are people that have left. But those people don’t sit around and cry to a world wide population to try to get a listening ear. They go do what they feel God separated us from them to do. Point in case Rev. Moses.
NEVER HARM SAID
Rev. Davis left one org. to start another.
I SAY:
Did he employ your Gestapo tactics? Did he tell you the name of that organization or did your loser friends? Did he mention names of the people he separated from and tell you his beef’s with them? No, all of the things you know, short of the fact that he felt God wanted him to start another organization, came from your gossip buddies.
NEVER HARM”
If God can tell him to leave a church then God can certainly tell someone-else to leave NTCC and go to another church. After all, He always told us in school that God can talk to us just like he speaks to him.
I SAY:
Go to another church that’s fine. But spending 5 years of continual harangue is a little bit excessive. And, even if in my personal estimation your wrong why should that make you spend all of your time trying to get me to agree? In my phych classes they called it transference.
And one last thing
ReplyDeleteNEVER HARM”
If God can tell him to leave a church then God can certainly tell someone-else to leave NTCC and go to another church. After all, He always told us in school that God can talk to us just like he speaks to him.
I SAY: So there you have it reader. Confirmation that all of this hullabaloo about Rev. Davis setting himself above everyone else is disannulled by Never-Harm because she (you must be a woman the way you write) says
After all, He always told us in school that God can talk to us just like he speaks to him.
Thanks... the defense rests.
And on the money issue...when I worked for Brian's company I made between 5 - 6 K per WEEK (as Brian can testify) when I left. If I wanted money, I would never have left that position.
ReplyDeleteBriggs the abuser said...
ReplyDeleteYou spend OVER 20 Years (I confirmed it this a.m. with a mutual acquaintance that was in church with you back then) apparently dissatisfied, angry, abused… in short, you were the fake.
Jeff said...
Once again, you are not only wrong but so was acquittance, David Bright unless you simply couldn't listen to what he told you. He obviously left out a key part of the equation or you just failed to listen. Once again you are about 10 years off. You see there you go again coming on here with completely erroneous information. I keep telling you that you are way off with your math.
I was very real. Unlike you I tried to actually practice what I preached. You are just a hypocrite who can't seem to stay away from the devilnet as your master RWD so called it. You were right about me being dissatisfied. I wasn't angry though so you were wrong about that also Briggs.
Jeff
Jeff.. oN the issue of the emails you read... shall I post the emails your buddy wrote to a 10 and 12 year old? Because I have them. Or how about the ones where he went around writing Crum, Hase, and others trying to "Dig up some dirt" on me? Because I have them....
ReplyDeleteWHy not tell them that he hijacked a church newsletter email address and tried to plead with people that Had no idea of what was going on forcing me to completely out him for all of the debaste perverse vile things he had become... That's fair game right....
Names have a purpose don't you know, they lable a thing a thing. They are descriptives that clarify a point. You know exactly what I think of your cowardly, unmanly, psychopathic crusade.
And they can not be tricked by people like these folks who spread distortions of truths to confuse the unlearned.
ReplyDeleteFolks,that feel stuck in ntcc. Know the TRUTH and the TRUTH will set you Free.
Find out the truth how Mike K. had land deeded to him from the Church? Find out the truth how Grant is afford a education that cost 20,000 a year. Who paid for that? Know where your money is going. A printed report from the office!
We are not distorting anything. You briggs are under the ntcc fog. You swallow hook line and sinker. As all of us did for years. But we are FREE! Free moral agents. Are you? Do you rely totally on God. Or someone else!
this blog is for the TRUE story. And that is what people will get. When they can now google and learn and decide on there own. Know the TRUTH before ever set foot in a ntcc building,or hotel room.
You may have 25 people know that just got baptised. Say in six months,wonder how many of those folks will still be attending your service's. What is the sticking around time for folks in yours or any ntcc small church? Not long!
CM
So CM... why did you prented to be a current member you liar.
ReplyDeleteAnd, if we are so small and the attrition is so fast why not let things take care of themselves for they surely will... Unless of course God has a hand in it then it will never GO AWAY... but you will won't you? Evntually, inevitably you will. As someone already pointed out some of you are in your 50's now. Just about the time your poor health habits are going to manifest themselves (ask Jeffy's friend about that). And the work will go on.
post the emails your buddy wrote to a 10 and 12 year old? Because I have them. Or how about the ones where he went around writing Crum, Hase, and others trying to "Dig up some dirt" on me? Because I have them....
ReplyDeleteWhat does something a friend of Jeffs have anything to do with sharing our TRUE stories. This is not TP blog. Where everyone just LOVED to argue. We are here to share what we went through and the mental anguish some are still going through. Healing can take a while after escaping a CULT!
Folks that come on here to learn more about ntcc. This is what they LOVE to do. Smear you,try to ridicule you,if your a woman put you in your place. Pretend that we are idiots and they are so much smarter then the average joe,call name's!
If you start attending one of there"churches" Stop and find a real Church. Where they will care about you wether you attend there service's or not. Because once you stop attending ntcc,they will drop you like a hot COAL! Smear your name,tell lie's. It is done OVER AND OVER AGAIN! THIS IS A FACT and can be PROVEN!!
CM
Oops... CM your not NEver Harm as far as I can tell so your not the Liar... sorry for what it's worth
ReplyDeleteCM SAID If you start attending one of there"churches" Stop and find a real Church. Where they will care about you wether you attend there service's or not. Because once you stop attending ntcc,they will drop you like a hot COAL! Smear your name,tell lie's. It is done OVER AND OVER AGAIN! THIS IS A FACT and can be PROVEN!!
ReplyDeletePlease do show me one of our Smear sites? Where we go to smear all of the people that left. Oh, your right when you go on the attack we come out the defend but that is a natural reaction.
Show me where you folks are talkign about healing in any of these posts and I can show you page after page where you do nothing but hate. CM tell your husband to rub your back and sit in a tub full of calgon because you need an emotional rest.
Please my poor confused anon. What are you talking about. I pretended to be a member. I have escaped ntcc. I can thank my DH for that.
ReplyDeleteI am not in my fifties. Thankfully I did not wait that long to leave the cult. Poor eating habits,not me. I can now afford to buy groceries without using coupons. And not stand in line at a good bank,like we HAD to while barely surviving while stuck in ntcc.
Let nature take its course. No way. If I can stop someone from making the same mistake I did. By attending ONE ntcc service. I will toss them the life pererver and stop them from being brainwashed,CONTROLLED,lost and on there way to hell. Being in the ntcc cult is not helping them reach Heaven. rw is aiding the devil,not God!
CM
What does something a friend of Jeffs have anything to do with sharing our TRUE stories. -CM
ReplyDeleteAsk Jeff, he's the one that keeps wanting to site a private conversation about a mutual acquaintance as proof positive that he can, over the phone, without ever meeting me, seeing me, hearing my preaching, sitting in this church, etc etc. that he knows I am a fake because of what his "Friend" Showed him.
Jump him if you must jump someone for bringing up superfluous issues.
CM... your too funny..... I think you mistook a need for deliverence with a need for midol
ReplyDeleteCM tell your husband to rub your back and sit in a tub full of calgon because you need an emotional rest
ReplyDeleteTOLD YOU FOLKS> Belitting right there. To the woman. I don't need any emotional rest. After leaving ntcc. I never realized how much stress I was under. Live up to the perfect PW image. Folks in ntcc think oh this is the best life. Your living a Fake life. Got out and met real Christians. Who do walk the walk. And don't hide behind I am a Christian and we can't be friends line!
Oh isn't life great!!
CM
oh dear confused ntcc cult member. I do not need a midol. Not like the ntcc longtime minister's wive's that are addicted to depression medicine and anti-anxiety medicine. Because they know deep down what they and there husbands have done to people's live's. The damage they have caused can not be reversed!!
ReplyDeleteCM
Folks ntcc has nothing to offer you. Except ranting and raving behind a pulpit. Tell them your personal information. Watch out when they find the right opportunity. They will use it! I am so glad I got out and stayed out of the radar of rw and mk. Less they know about you the better.
ReplyDeleteCM
they get your respect. As long as if there married they stay at home. If there married and out working on a job. Do they get your respect?
ReplyDeleteIf they speak up and question you. Do they get your respect? Or is a pat on the head,be a good little wify and do as your told respect. We all know that is rw opinion of woman.Listen to how he goes on about his own wife over the pulpit. don't like it WOMAN ,then hit the road!
I could really care less about your personal e-mails between you and Jeff. I don't come on here because I always agreee with Jeff,pdq,ect.. I come on to share my personal TRUE accounts while stuck in ntcc. So other woman do not have to go through what I did. It was all fine and DANDY while I was in a local Church. I got to Washington. And rw blasts away. Making sure woman feel knee high to a grasshopper. Keep us in our spot. So we do not really share our OPINIONS. because lady that is all it is,your opinion(rw words)! I could go on and on how he bashes women over the pulpit. And there are more then two or three witness that will agree with me!!!
I hope for your sake you do not bash people over the pulpit. And share personal information. And berate them and make people feel guilty over what you consider a sin.
Judgement!!!
CM
Hey Briggs: What is with all the names that you come up with like dumb donald, dweebs, dodo dork, and fool? Do you just like calling folks names? Boy that makes you a great pastor. I'm impressed.
ReplyDeleteWow Briggs, you actually had 225 people in church? That is almost have the number that Denis in one service. Ha, ha, ha. LOL. Everyone that I talked to said Denis is a devil so what does that make you? Almost half the devil? Are we supposed to be impressed with you numbers? The Pharisees had at least tens of thousands and the Catholics have millions. So do the Jehovah's witness and the Mormons. For that matter so do the Muslims. Having 225 people in your church only means that there are 225 seriously deceived folks that live in or around Houston.
I wonder how they feel about having a pastor who is no more than a big name caller?
Briggs said...
"You quote Brian and Tracy and how they were attacked on their blog"
Jeff said...
I have never quoted Brian or Tracy as being attacked on the blog not even one time. There you go with another lie Briggs.
I hope none of the people in you church trust you because you as a pastor just put out all of you ex-church members business all over the internet. Some of the stuff that you wrote according to him is not accurate. I figure the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. He says that he never smeared poopy anywhere on your building. He also says that neither you or anyone else has any proof of him inappropriately touching children. If he was inappropriately touching children, you should have had him arrested. So either you don't possess good judgment by letting him walk or he is right and you have no proof. And you have a police officer in your church but you still didn't see to it that charges were pressed against a potential child molester? You are sorry Briggs. If what you are saying is right, you are just as guilty as he is for not taking action.
You say the guy lied on numerous occasions? You have lied on numerous occasions right on this blog by continuing to tell me that I was in the NTCC for 20 years when I was only in about 10 or slightly less. You lied when you said that "I" quoted Tracy and Brian as being attacked. Someone else may have but it wasn't me.
Briggs; you are nothing but a name calling, abusive, control freak and it is evidenced by the things you write. The same way you write to me is the same way you deal with folks in the church. I can just hear you being a big blow hard behind the pulpit blasting folks constantly. As far as a pastor goes, you are nothing but a joke.
Oh and by the way; you were just dying to get out of church so you could write me back. You must have had a really great message today? Thank God I didn't have to listen to your big mouth.
Jeff
Oh,concerning the Smear site's. This is not a smear site. This is TRUE stories. If you don't like the truth getting out. To bad!
ReplyDeleteI know lies were said about us. Got it from the horse's mouth(mk) I know for a fact lies were said about a couple that left ntcc. Said they left for money,be near family,left Gods calling. Far from it! Still working in a ministry. They are not rich by RW standards how he live's!!!
There are more TRUE stories folks can share. That smearing has and still goes on to this day!
CM
For the record: The guy that you refer to as my friend is not. I haven't talked to the guy in years and years prior to you kicking him out of your church. He contact me because a mutual acquaintance gave him my phone number. Unless he calls me I don't plan to talk to him again.
ReplyDeleteJeff
CM said...
ReplyDeleteWhat does something a friend of Jeffs have anything to do with sharing our TRUE stories. -CM
Briggs said...
Ask Jeff, he's the one that keeps wanting to site a private conversation about a mutual acquaintance as proof positive that he can, over the phone, without ever meeting me, seeing me, hearing my preaching, sitting in this church, etc etc. that he knows I am a fake because of what his "Friend" Showed him.
Jeff said...
Like I already said, the guy you are referring to is not my friend. Briggs keeps saying he is my friend but he is not. The reason I say that Briggs is a fake is because of the conversation that Briggs and I had with each other. When Briggs called me asinine and a dodo and started ranting and raving, I knew he was a fake. A "REAL" Christian Pastor wouldn't act like that. I also knew he was fake when he kept trying to defend Kekel and all the NTCC so called policies and the fact that Kekel went to a blue grass festivel, and Kekel listened to Kenny Rogers,(The Gambler) with Gods approval. Briggs is a fake and now he is totally and intentionally trying to distort the truth right here on this blog.
Like trying to suggest that one of his ex-churchmembers / ex-NTCC ministers is my friend because the guy is not.
The reason that Briggs is trying to associate his ex church member with me is to try an smear my credibility by association. Well guess what. I don't let exNTCCers willfully lie on this blog and I won't let Briggs do it either.
Jeff
Briggs said...
ReplyDeleteTell me, why did your last Pastor state he had to be “Rude” was it for no reason at all or was something going on that he finally had to change tactics and approach the problem differently? My experience tells me that if someone says “I’m going to HAVE TO” its because what I’ve already tried has not worked.
Oh, and for the RECORD I was the person he talked to. Not RWD, Not Rev. Kekel, not Rev. Kinson. Little old me. So stop tooting your horn about “THE ORGANIZATIONAL LEADERSHIP TOLD HIM TO SAY THAT TO ME”.
Jeff said...
Boy isn't that a case of the blind leading the blind. No wonder Oberhauser was so ate up. He was taking advise from you. Well I guess I owe you some thanks Briggs. Oberhauser making that statement was the last straw with me and my wife. Isn't it funny how God works in mysterious way to help folks like me get out of a cult like the one that you are in.
Jeff
Briggs,your smearing RIGHT NOW. Folks got on factnet to smear ex-ntccer's. As if we are one big group. Like ya'll are. ntcc clique!
ReplyDeleteRW smears people after leaving. Kinson does and I know Mike K. makes up lie's! Your all full of crap!
It is turn though. The wheels of judgment do turn slowly,but they do turn. Judgement is coming for ntcc. Oh why,oh why is folks leaving,churches are closing up,graduation numbers are dwindling. Your all trying to look and act like the world. (COMPROMISE) so you can stop the negative flow of people leaving! Not going to work. Your women still look like they belong on little house and the prairie. I always refer folks to how ya'll look to the latest cult in Texas. Out dated!! So much for not being the first one in style and the last one out of style. Ntcc with those Hawaiin shirts,women with silk blouse's,scarfs,matching shoes and purse. VERY OUTDATED!!
Your true colors will shine through. CULT!!!
Briggs said...
ReplyDelete"I am a friend of his that recognized he was too nice for his own good for your sake as you’ve already testified you had problems with your last 3 or 4 pastors and pulled your family in and out like a rubber band. Which, I realized last night as I drifted off to my peaceful slumber, shows you’re a mean, manipulative, abusive control freak that makes the decisions ALL for your wife regardless of what she wants. If you “Pulled” her out of church it tells me that she was resisting. Why else would you choose that particular mode of speech. I would think that if you were the gentle loving man you try to say you are you would have “LEAD” her, or agreed with her it was time to go. But no, you PULLED HER…. Sound like you view your wife more as a tooth than a partner."
Jeff's wife says....
Mr. Briggs you really need to stick to speaking about what you know and stop dreaming up lies in your "peaceful slumber". I thank God and my husband for the day he finally decided to call NTCC quits. He no more pulled me out of church than you received a valid degree/license to preach from NTCS. Once Jeff shared his feelings about departing, WE agreed to tell the Oberhauser's immediately. Your telling Oberhauser that he needed to be rude is shameful. Your bragging about it is repulsive. You should have been advising him on how not to preach 50 minutes on a 10 minute subject and how to be genuinely interested in your congregation. I know why you didn't or couldn't; because you are just like Davis and Kekel. You think abusing the flock is your duty and right as a so-called preacher. So whatever terminology Jeff used: pulled, pushed, drug, or otherwise, I was glad to be going.
I hope your congregation is reading this blog. Hopefully they'll see your true colors and the advice you give your fellow so-called preachers. Keep blogging Mr. Briggs.
Jeff's Wife
Mr. Briggs,
ReplyDeleteIsaiah Chapter 59 pretty much describes you to a tee:
59:2 But your iniquities have seperated between you and God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
59:3 For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness.
Briggs, You can read the rest of the chapter yourself. Pull out your Dake and read it!!!
By the way, Briggs, as you can see, it is not just Jeff that has issues with NTCC, we ALL do.
I am not coming to Jeff's defense, he can take care of himself.
But what right is right, and wrong is still wrong, and you, son of Man, have left the mountain of God and have gone the ways of Belial.
Peace. Out.
Bro Johnson
Bro Johnson
Mr. Briggs,
ReplyDeleteI have contacted Rev Kekel though the means I normally contact him and informed him of your adventures on this blog.
You should be hearing from him shortly.
Man, the internet is amazing, isn't it???
I will give Kekel credit where credit is due: He does respond.
May you sleep peacefully in your chambers tonight as well!!!
Bro Johnson
There you have it Mr. Briggs. Straight from my wife. She has posted on this blog maybe twice that I know of; ever.
ReplyDeleteDoesn't look like I had to drag her out of the NTCC now does it? I guess you deciding to capitalize on my terminology didn't quite work out the way you had planned. Well as you see she saw fit to set the record straight. Did it sound like she was a big fan of the NTCC? I didn't think so.
Hopefully you have a nice peaceful slumber this evening just as you did the last. Maybe your peaceful slumber won't result in another mis-characterization of someone else's wife.
Like my wife said, keep blogging because you have certainly helped our cause here. You're so smart, you have outsmarted yourself this time.
Jeff
Briggs; you are nothing but a name calling, abusive, control freak
ReplyDeleteOh, so those aren't names? ha ha
Oh and jeff, dork, dodo, asinine are all adjectives. Last time I checked a name is a noun. I describe your actions, now DUmb Donald that is a name :>
ReplyDeleteLike my wife said, keep blogging because you have certainly helped our cause here. You're so smart, you have outsmarted yourself this time.
ReplyDeleteHa ha... Your the one that used the term "Pulled" and I am the one that mischaracterized ha ha.. doesn't the Bible say out of the abundance of the heart... Sister your husband thinks your a dog that he can pull back at will... you better run before he yanks your chain again.
This is the finest NTCC has to offer folks just read how this pastor has such command of the English language. What a wonderful man of God. I wonder if he knows the greatest commandment of all. Does anyone think this pastor of a NTCC loves anyone but himself? WOW Dude they make medication for what you have.
ReplyDeleteRev. Big says (yes I know his real name but its fitting)
Your a dork,asinine,dodo,My little bugger bear,you dweebs, loser friends,need for midol and much more.
Mr. Briggs,
ReplyDeleteI have contacted Rev Kekel though the means I normally contact him and informed him of your adventures on this blog.
You should be hearing from him shortly.
Man, the internet is amazing, isn't it???
I will give Kekel credit where credit is due: He does respond.
May you sleep peacefully in your chambers tonight as well!!!
Bro Johnson
Your a dork... do you think I don't talk to Rev. Kekel? Do you think that he's going to call me and tell me to back off? Do you think I will? Ha ha your so stupid your funny. You can't take me, so you run for protection but it won't come. I AM MY OWN MAN always have been and alwasy will be. Your sissy self spent years of your life trying to be someone else only to come to what I new all along you cant so you ran.
Do you realize how weak and pathetic you sound "I told your daddy on you. You better leave me alone" Do you need a bottle for that whine of yours?
Gee,Mr. Briggs I think it was your master rw davis that told everyone to stay off TP blog. So I would assume that he would want you to stay off Jeff's blog as well. rw knows that you guys get on here and make you and ntcc look so stupid. You show what a farse you are as a REAL Christian. You show so much LACK of love it is not even funny!
ReplyDeleteSomeone gets on here and ruffles your feather's. You start calling names as if you a child on the playground. But that is how your treated from your master rw or is it now Mike K. is now the new master.
What a laugh. Your own man. No man in ntcc is there own man. The church you work at is not yours it is ntcc. Those folks your reaching are not yours,there ntcc's. You send your own tithe and then the churches tithe and many pledges on top of that. Way to keep the empire going.
You belittle woman. Call men names.
Guess why folks? Because he has NO COME BACKS. While I was stuck in ntcc. Folks would bring up questions. I would say,it is in the Bible. I had nothing to back up there so called sins,oh that's right there POLICIES!
Stay on here Mr. Briggs. You are helping the cause. Show folks what idiots are leading the Churches for ntcc.
Thanks for your help!!!
Briggs said...
ReplyDeleteYour a dork... do you think I don't talk to Rev. Kekel? Do you think that he's going to call me and tell me to back off? Do you think I will? Ha ha your so stupid your funny. You can't take me, so you run for protection but it won't come. I AM MY OWN MAN always have been and alwasy will be. Your sissy self spent years of your life trying to be someone else only to come to what I new all along you cant so you ran.
Do you realize how weak and pathetic you sound "I told your daddy on you. You better leave me alone" Do you need a bottle for that whine of yours?
*******************
I think NTCC has a loose cannon on their hands... This guy is weird.
4/01/2009
ReplyDeleteA Little Tidbit Of Information ....Mike Kekel created his blog as a direct equalizer / counter to Brian Pelfrey's blog which is named ntccXposed. The only difference between Brian and Mike is; Brian did not try to hide his true intentions when he created his website but Mike did. Brian Pelfrey’s clearly stated intention when he created his website was to attack the NTCC's practices and expose the NTCC for what it truly is and that is evidenced by not only what he named his website but it is also evidenced by what he named his Unform Resource Locator (URL). The true name Brian Pelfrey gave his Uniform Resource Locator (URL) is displayed when you go to ntccXposed. You have to dig just a little bit to find out what name Mike gave to his blogs Uniform Resource Locator (URL).
This is the name that Mr. Pelfrey gave his URL: http://www.ntccxposed.com/
This is the name that Mr. Kekel gave his URL that he didn't want people to see: http://exntccrsxposed.blogspot.com/
Posted by Jeff Collins at 4/01/2009 12:30:00 PM 18 comments
There's one time you quoted Brian
Your a dork,asinine,dodo,My little bugger bear,you dweebs, loser friends,need for midol and much more
ReplyDeleteSo tell me, what are your epethets? GO look it up
Oh please briggs. You defend you friends ONLY IF THERE IN NTCC. If that friend was to leave ntcc. You would smear them,and not defend them to your master's!!
ReplyDeleteSpell it correctly you moron.
ReplyDeleteI was using this noun as an example of how you are treating people.
FB said...
ReplyDeleteBriggs said...
So tell me, what are your epethets? GO look it up.
Spell it correctly you moron.
August 17, 2009 1:23 AM
ooooooo they called me a name....
Tracy's blog is gone due to family illness. Not that you care.
ReplyDeleteJeff's blog started before tracy's blog was taken off.
I hope when Tracy is able to come back on-line. To do so. And get another blog going. The more to battle the EVIL of ntcc and these crazy men they got running around calling themselve's minister's. Guess what world. NO ONE BUT NTCC reconizes them as a minister. There license is useless ANYWHERE else!
Jeff,please be careful what is said on here. We don't want wierdo's coming on. Trying to get your or others riled up. Briggs has never come on here before. Only coming now to mess with us. Get everyone riled up.
But what he is really doing is showing ntcc True colors. Thanks again wierdo. Like to call names. Sure many of us that have escaped ntcc have a few for control freaks still in ntcc!!!
why would it bother you briggs that your called a name. Since you have come on here. That is all you have done is call names. Your sooo mature! NOT!!!!
ReplyDeleteMany folks that join ntcc stop maturing once they get in. Because the "leaders" take over for them!
No FB not treating people, treating JEFF. He's the one Called of God to Blog for the Lord...
ReplyDeleteSo you come on this blog to take our your frustration! How pathetic and immature you are!
ReplyDeleteooh,please go back to sleep. Stop leading people astray. Twisting scripture. Preaching as your policies are sins. And many of what your teaching as a sin is not a sin.
ReplyDeleteLeading people into bondage they don't need to be in.
Go and take a long,long sleep.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteNo FB not treating people, treating JEFF. He's the one Called of God to Blog for the Lord...
FB said..
I think this guy treats everyone he meets this way and at the very least he has anger issues.
I bet this guy is Kekels worst nightmare. I'm sure Briggs didn't receive an RSVP for the 4th of July blast.
ReplyDeleteBriggs said...
ReplyDeleteJeff why do you keep skippng the question about 1985. Did David lie? Did your buddy BEal lie? Were you not in the church in 1985... how is it less than 23 years by the common calander?
Jeff said...
Beal is not my buddy and you keep lying by continuing to insist that I was in the NTCC more than 10 years longer than I really was.
Your common calendar doesn't work without the right figures which you obviously don't have.
Jeff
briggs,
ReplyDeletethe bible says men of God are not brawlers
this minister who is flexing his literal muscles, also did it on factnet. he wrote about how he went to the gym and lifted weights and so on. he was doing the same thing there that he does here, you know the "I dare you to knock this chip off my shoulder', but he is literal.
ReplyDeletefunny, of all the things he posted, this is how I remember him.
no one, I repeat, no one is their own man ( or woman, for that matter), in ntcc. ever.
ReplyDeletewell, okay, maybe if you are closely related to the upper teir.
Sorry, Rev. Briggs but I am who I said I was. I'm a minister's wife in NTCC. I never said YOU said anything. I was referring to a large majority of people in our org. Think back to a conference not too far in the past. Rev. Kekel is the one who said that a lot of people in our org. look down their spiritual noses at others who are not in NTCC. I couldn't agree with him more. So, if you have a problem with what he said you better talk to him about it.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the pride issue goes, it doesn't take a much to see pride in someone. You come across as a big bully. Not the kind of leader I would want to follow.
You said I sound like a woman. Hum, it seems as if my saying I was a minister's WIFE would have let everyone know that I am a woman more than the way I sound. LOL
Yes, I am a person searching for the truth and wanting to get out because of all the things that were once wrong and are now okay. Excuse me, have always been okay. No, they were not! If they were okay they would not have been preached about at conferences also.
I have taken psycholoy in college also. Yes, I went to college before going to seminary. I was on the dean's list. Big deal. That doesn't make me or you better than anyone-else. I have known a few people who were highly intelligent but had no common sense. One person couldn't even find they way around town without getting lost all the time. I would rather have common sense thank you. LOL
About your saying I have been posting things for 5 years I think you need to check again. I just started to read this blog. I have only been commenting for a couple of days. Maybe you should check your facts first before you accuse me, and whoever CM is, of things. A leader finds out the facts first before he storms ahead. Weren't we taught that we should prepare before we do anything?
Never Harm
I was saying that I was also on the deans list, not just commenting about Rev. Briggs saying that he was. I wanted to clear that up because I thought that he was going to see that and say I was jealous because I didn't make it on the list. Just trying to stop another nasty comment from him. LOL
ReplyDeleteNever Harm
Briggs:
ReplyDeleteBy the Power invested in me in all things that are right and good I hereby
DISFELLOWSHIP
you from this blog!
Bro Johnson
Rev. Briggs,
ReplyDeleteYour telling us of how many people you had in servie sounds way to much like when the Dennis' were still around. It was all, "We had this many in service, etc." Sounds like too much bragging. It brings back bad memories.
aNON Rev. Briggs,
ReplyDeleteYour telling us of how many people you had in servie sounds way to much like when the Dennis' were still around. It was all, "We had this many in service, etc." Sounds like too much bragging. It brings back bad memories.
I SAY your groups continued harping about our dwindling numbers sounds way to much like bragging as well. My mention of numbers was for those who say our churches are ALL dwindling. Some do, others don't. ONe man quits, another starts. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Simple as that. Your cast of clowns told me that I had a handful. Of them in this group that actually entered a ministry I would venture a guess that not one of them EVER had a privildge of having that many attend their pastorates. Right! God is not, has not, and will not leave us as we stay faithful.
Briggs: Question: Since you have never met me, how can you form a logical opinion of me?
ReplyDeleteI SAY: The same way you come to a logical opinion of me without meeting me....doh didn't see that coming did ya
Thanks for the ignorant compliment though
ReplyDeleteWell, I'll give you this much Credit. At least you will come out here and make an attempt to address some of the things that have been said out here. More than I can say for Les Contreras.
ReplyDeletePart of the problem with many of the Ministers at NTCC is the fact that behind the Pulpit they are 10 ft. tall and Bulletproof and their power (What little bit of it they have) Begins and ends with NTCC.
Enough with the Ministers!!! Let's get Kekel,or Olson, or Davis out here and see what happens.
I will make a promise here and now. If any 1 of the above mentioned were to come out here.(Of course it would have to be verified it was them) I will keep my mouth shut, wait my turn, and not be rude to any one of them.
Oh, and I pastored Scrivens wife and I even think I was the one that signed her application for Bible School.
ReplyDeleteAnd Johnson.... if the Holy Ghost annoints their ministry... waht does that say about their fellowship? They choose to stay? How can two walk together unless they agree?
ReplyDeleteJeff,
ReplyDeletewhy oh why did you allow this message to stay up. The one where he is advertisting the cult.
Folks with questions. research all about cults. Ntcc fits so many catagories it is scary!
Do not go to there so called service's. It is a love fest. Oh we love you. Come and be with us. There love is condition. If you " Get in" you will hear that. Or "get on Board",be a "member of the team". ntcc has so many sayinggs,jargon. Isn't this the best life,God is great!
Watch EVERYTHING they say. Look it up,study,and if you dare ask questions. ntcc and there ministers pride trips. Hate there authority questioned. As if a church member knows more then the,"man of GAWD! Your entering into the twiglt zone. the woman dress out of date styles,hair duo's that are so ugle,ratty hair. That most of them now wear hairpiece's,fake nail's,fake eyelashes. NTCC IS A FAKE!!
RUN!!!!!
Briggs,
ReplyDeleteyou want questions. Why the Compromise? Why did Mike K. CANCEL Gods service. Take time for themselve's and rob God of there time??
Why are kids playing sports and games with TIGHT fitting pants. Like Grant wears! Why is one child in ntcc attended a school where tutition is 20,000. But ntcc says they can not help ANY pioneer works start out???? Mike K. himself could have funded many pioneer churches. Instead of taking money he got from the hard work of other ministers to send his privilaged child to another religions school!!! I bet he never soul-winned from that richy-rich crowd!
And now,he did not get from hard work himself. He married into the family,POOR!! He got it all from rw and ntcc! And then he gets 39 acre's deeded to him From the church!!
lETS SEE,why is it OK for Mike K. to listen to country music. That is WORLDY music. My own my,what a slippery slope Mike K. is going down. Blue grass festivals,country music listening(devil music) watches DVD. I would say he has a TV behind a panel in his bedroom!
Students doing Gangster signs at a BIBLE SCHOOL graduation. Such a serious undertaking. And they are making jokes,funny face's. Such a somber time. COMPROMISE is in the mist!
But then ya'll have the gall to say NOTHING HAS CHANGED! We all know it has changed. Many of us have notes taken when rw was going on a tirade at conference's.... There is {PROOF. And Mike K. can not sweep it all under the rug. And the Kiss ups like yourself. Can't pretend that life is grand,all bussiness as usual.
I know your all loving it. A bit of normal life. That so many of us get to enjoy. Enjoy it while it lasts. You know ntcc loves to give and then take back. FLip-FLOP!!!
CM
Gee,Briggs what is wrong with the OLD WAY? You like the compromise going on in this day in age. MIKE K. ERA! the old man is getting to old to controlling everyone. So your all getting your way. Compromise.
ReplyDeleteWhy did you stay in ntcc if the old ways were not Gods way. It is either my way or there is the door(rw words) Gee-,I think you were sticking around under the old man stepped down. You knew Mike K. would make it so much nicer. And POPULAR. Yeah,folks will come into ntcc now. You all are having fun,recreation is allowed,kids can play sports,family events are encouraged,members have POOLS,country music is fine. Sure that will changed as time goes on. Soon it will be soul music is OK,R@B..... DVD's are fine,TV shows are OK. If you HEAR Gods voice telling you what to watch and how much time to spend on the TV!
NTCC has not changed. In one sense. Your still a cult.
Briggs get a grip. Posting your church information is not a threat. I am sure your paranoid like your master rw is. Huge gate's,tv screen security,guards. That man is petrified. He knows what he has done to people and there damage done to there souls! I am sure he is haunted and nightmare's all the time!
ReplyDeletejudgement will get him. if he doesn't committ sucide to get away from the horrible demons that chase him!!!
Is that happening to you! Sounds like your in the begginng stage's!
Why are kids playing sports and games with TIGHT fitting pants. Like Grant wears!
ReplyDeleteBecause the parents make the choice for themselves. It's that simple. My daughter is in Karate that is MY DECISSION. But see, I will not allow her, though beautiful, sweet and tender to be a victim to anyone.
Oh and Briggs. I know for a fact that Never harm is a minister's wife. And a VERY devoted one! She tries to stay in subjection to her hubby!
ReplyDeleteShe has not tried to fight with her husband about leaving. She has stayed to save her marriage. LIKE SO MANY OTHER WOMAN. They are stuck in ntcc. I was stuck for many years myself! Thank God he used financial ruins to get us out of the ntcc cult. Without that happening we would still be in the cult,funding ntcc evil empire!
Oh and women in ntcc. Stop being your husbands door matt. Being in subjection does not mean he can TELL YOU WHAT to do. OR what TO WEAR. HOW MUCH MONEY you spend. As if he can spend what he wants,but makes sure he knows why you need money,as if!! Have the friends you want,he can not CONTROL your life!
Oh and JUST because you may check out another church. DOES not give him grounds for a divorce. If he does,GET ALIMONY. He wanted you as a Stay at home wife or mother! GET All the child support you can. They want to get out and get another sucker wife to clean,cook,make sure lots of sex. Make sure you get what is DUE TO YOU!!
Why is one child in ntcc attended a school where tutition is 20,000.
ReplyDeleteBecasue his parents can afford it. Rev. Kekel pastor a large church, is a president of a large organization, is the Dean of a Bible COllege, runs the music, etc. etc. But don't fool yourself into believing that a man as smart as Rev. Kekel is not smart enought to invest wisely.
I've never known a CEO that was expected to work for nothing until I came here. Church people always scream about the need for quality in the pulpit and then they expect for the person to surrender everythin while they give miniscule. It doesn't work that way. He earns every dime he is payed in our organization, and suppliments with investments to make up the rest. Why is that wrong? More men should support their families that way but so many choose to play
Your Daughter is in Karate. Five years ago. I was in ntcc. Wanted my daughter in Karate. I would have been BASHED over the pulpit. Without naming name's. But folks would have known who there talking about.
ReplyDeleteYour own personal decision. That is good. How it really should be. BUT NTCC HAS CHANGED!! You know it,and I know it!
CM
Gee,why doesn't Mike K. SACRIFICE and help out those Pioneer Churches. He has SO MUCH. THose that have so much are the ones that should help. Isn't that in the Bible!!
ReplyDeleteWhere did his money FIRST COME FROM. Got married,he was dirt poor. Got a house didn't he! NEVER Pioneered a Church. The WA Church was BUILT for him. Local Churches were ordered to give up church members. With all the soul-winning that goes on up there. Most of the conregation is not made up of Church folks from the community!!
ReplyDeleteHe did none of the work to get those students. What Work does he really do?
All those [postions he got from MARRYING TANYA K. He did not get there on his own merit!
But then ya'll have the gall to say NOTHING HAS CHANGED!
ReplyDeleteFirst of all Ya'll does not include me. Things have changed and In some ways I have helped brings some changes but I choose to make my observations in a private forum verses public. I also know how to take no for an answer and follow orders when necessary. Things have changed but the standards have not.
You seem to forget that things like DVD's, Internet, etc. are brand new technologies that were not fully understood at the time. Pastor had a hands off attitude because he didn't fully understand them. Others took the time to research them, explain them, demonstrate them and another side of them was seen. He still doesn't like them but they are not going away.
I would add that none of the people on this blog completely understands the ramifications of this "technology" either. They freely research people, find out morsels and try to stir bru-ha-ha but it just might turn again and rend them someday.
Anti-Christian site. GIVE ME A BREAK! Many of us come on here to share our TRUE STORIES. Those of you still under ntcc fog HATE the truth. Because we are no longer Silent. In the past,folks left ntcc and had no way to tell the world about this cult. And warn others! Now there is a place.And SOO many folks now google and research on-LINE! Folks can now Flea ya'll like the do the JW and Mormons,and Amish. Ya'll have so many qualities shared by those three ORganization. Your all CULTS!
ReplyDeleteGee,wonder why Mike K. will not update ntcc web site. Since the internet could help ya'll. We all know why,can't put up the policies that were SINS.
standards. Like the kids at the 4th july blast wearing hats on backwards. Minister's wearing tee-shirts!
ReplyDeleteCountry music is now allowed. Bluegrass festivals are now allowed.
No Way. your standards are falling under COMPROMISE AS WELL!!
how did you come on here Briggs. To smear Jeff. We will not take up for you. Your evil and in the cult.
ReplyDeletehard to be nice to someone that is brainwashed!
the ramifications of this blog. Is to Keep people away from ntcc! Stay out of the cult. Once they get you,it is hard to leave!!
ReplyDeleteOthers took the time to research them, explain them, demonstrate them and another side of them was seen. He still doesn't like them but they are not going away.
ReplyDeleteSome call it research...others call it compromise...hmmm.
I didn't know NTCC had a "holiness" beta testing personnel
There is a difference between not understanding something, and calling something sin that sends someone to hell.
Someone in NTCC please explain.
Now this post is a choice one
ReplyDeleteGee,Briggs what is wrong with the OLD WAY? You like the compromise going on in this day in age. MIKE K. ERA! the old man is getting to old to controlling everyone. So your all getting your way. Compromise.
Why did you stay in ntcc if the old ways were not Gods way. It is either my way or there is the door(rw words) Gee-,I think you were sticking around under the old man stepped down. You knew Mike K. would make it so much nicer. And POPULAR. Yeah,folks will come into ntcc now. You all are having fun,recreation is allowed,kids can play sports,family events are encouraged,members have POOLS,country music is fine. Sure that will changed as time goes on. Soon it will be soul music is OK,R@B..... DVD's are fine,TV shows are OK. If you HEAR Gods voice telling you what to watch and how much time to spend on the TV!
NTCC has not changed. In one sense. Your still a cult.
August 17, 2009 12:36 PM
You are crying that we have changed the landmarks and compromised so you must want the old path?
You say we have compromised but DVD's, VCR, Cable TV, Internet wasn't even around in the 60's and 70's. They are new. all within a 20 year time frame.
Why don't you through of the shackles of the whole CHrsitian religion since it is one of continual change, modification, redirection, etc. Every age has had to deal with some new idea, battlefront, or whatever. And every generation has had to answer the questions where do we stand in regard to this? What will tomorrow bring? Don't know but the PT class notes taught "Never be the first in (fashion) and out of (fashion). And in some cases it applies equally as well in technological issues. Some things that people did in Vic's day we in mine could not... why doesn't the old ones in your crowed talk of that?
Fellowship used to be in the 70's they way it is now... so have we compromised if we went back to the original?
The need for permission used to be minimal at best in the early days and it is that agian so is that a compromise?
We still do not allow our preachers to go to Movies, own TV's, but should we put a limit on the size of a man's monitor? My kids have a Wii is that sin?
Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. You see compromsie yet I see advancement, progress, Life not death and stagnation as some try to assert.
Jesus once said
Luk 7:32 They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.
Luk 7:33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
Luk 7:34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!
No matter which way we go people will never be satisfied.
Can anyone say,FLIP-FLOP!!
ReplyDeleteWhich is why I tell folks that are still in ntcc. ENJOY it while it last's. Watch out it will FLIP-FLOP back. Because if fellowship was different in the 70's. Why did it change. And why is less permission required now. Then a few years ago. None of us were unruly,bad influence's to be around. We followed rw word to the TEE!
Just trying to catch up with the time's!! Still got another Thirty years to go!
There is a difference between not understanding something, and calling something sin that sends someone to hell
ReplyDeletePASTOR NEVER said the DVD would send someone to Hell.
He Never said the Internet would.
He said Why would a Chrsitian WANT to watch them, or use it.
Young, unlearned, inexperienced preachers went around preaching as sin, something they thought they understood. That was wrong. I took psychology classes so that I could be a better PASTOR. I wanted to be able to give good Scriptural advice as well as wound Psychological advice. I wanted to learn real skills as a councellor so that I did not have to refer people to outside sources when they would not listen to the Bible. THAT IS ME that is my heart. Some choose to council from their head alone. I feel for them, I hurt for their people, but I do not answer for their CHOICE. I answer for mine. I follow the adivce of my elders and read, and read to increase understanding. I have had discussions with Pastor in person, and Rev. Kekel where we talk of subjects that we each had differences of opinon about and I never got blasted for it. Or Shot from the pulpit. But I approached them with respect and talked with respect.
There are right ways and wrong ways to do everything. You can be ever so right and ever so wrong all at the same time. ANd this method of reasearching web sites as Jeff does to scoure for "evidence" is wrong even. It is GESTAPO at worst and Bully at best.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteOh and Briggs. I know for a fact that Never harm is a minister's wife
Have her email me in private my email is
alwaysntcc@live.net (or com I always forget)
rw ways are NEVER WRONG. His way or the highway. He can't remember when he last SINNED! AS IF!
ReplyDeleteNtcc in today's era. is you can listen to God and he will guide your life. Five years ago. Before ntcc lost alot of folks. Something they thought would never leave! Like the Rickerts,Shunks..... Now it is DAMAGE CONTROL time. We are a much kinder,gentler ORganization. We really care about folks. We are not going to SHUN you if you leave ntcc. Come as you are,members can WATCH TV! DVD's are fine.
How many conference's I came out of. Where rw BASHED AND BASHED computer's.DVD's. Yes,he knew very little about them. But said,what did you need a computer for. So if the MASTER had no need for one. Of course we need to emulate our live's after the master. He took no vacations,so why should I. He bashed people over the pulpit,so should I...... Took folks out of the military. That have no brain,used to following orders. Molding clay for rw and now mk. He is rewriting history now. And your all lapping it up. Like nice little brainwashed puppies!
Never Harm,
ReplyDeleteDo not e-mail this dude. You know what you will get. Double talk,we love you,don't leave. if you leave,the enemey of your soul will get you. why would you want to leave ntcc. Nothing but worldy sin out there for you. And a world full of compromised Churches.
That is the bunch of hogwash you will get.
Please bro. Briggs stop posting.
ReplyDeleteI know that it makes you feel so good having such a crowd on sundays but it is not because of you, I know that you've heard pastor preach that it is up to the leader to reach higher and higher and so on and so forth but you need to remember that it is God who is allowing you to have people.
Don't get that attitude that you are the reason these people come, because that place is not "your church" it is God's church. You are just a vessel. Just remember that Joel Osteen is Houston and he is not even preaching what you consider the truth and he is packing them into a stadium, so what does that tell you?
I don't think is right as a pastor to be talking nonsense and calling people names, I know that it makes you feel good to vent with the people you consider the enemies of the Lord but just look at
Jesus as our example when he asked his father to forgive those that were harming him because they didn't know what they were doing.
Stop it brother and go pray or spend time with your family.
Go and do something constructive that will further the kingdom of God.
p.w.