Pastor Kekel wrote on the bottom of his blog that people have the right to copy anything they want from his blog. If he really means it, that is a step in the right direction. If you don't feel you are writing anything wrong than what is there to hide? Trying to hide information is a classic cult practice. Just imagine Peter, Paul, John and James forbidding people to make copies of their material. There'd be no Bibles. If your really believe that what you are writing is good news, what difference should it make if someone copies it? Whether or not is really is good news is a whole different matter but if your intent is right concerning what you write, who cares if someone copies it.You can copy this whole blog if you want. I write what I mean and I mean what I write. I got nothing to hide. I fix grammar and spelling mistakes but for the most part (by far) I don't regret what I write. I think Pastor Kekel will try to make even more changes within the NTCC when old RDub kicks the bucket. Hopefully he starts by discontinuing the requirement that NTCC people ask permission for just about everything. It's crazy that people have to send an email to Pastor Kekel requesting permission to stay with someone around Graham during the upcoming conference. That is a classic cult tactic and the NTCC would do good to discontinue that garbage.
Jeff
Not sure how many policies that were once preached as obstacles that would keep you out of heaven, will be changed when RWD is gone. I hope for the sakes of the people that are still being brainwashed that policies will change. The more that policies change, the more people will realize that they have been duped and will be able to see that they are in a cult. If the requirement to ask permission is done away with that would be a huge step in becoming a regular church. People would have freedom for a change. What a concept.
ReplyDeleteDon and Ange
I didn't understand NTCC. RW Davis taught against the internet in your house, then they said they were going to use it in the org. And the reasoning I remember they had for, not only allowing it, but for promoting it was that it was going to be a blessing, and the enemy was using it so they should defend themselves, and that we (those of us in the congregation) were already using it anyways. That was kind of surprising to hear that people were using the internet when it was not acceptable yet.
ReplyDeleteI also remember bible school students having multiple brother fellowship at a time when I am quite sure it was not ok yet. When I told a brother we should check on it before we do the same, the answer from RW Davis was we could have 2 brothers.
What I see then is an org that has rules and socially 'unacceptable' practices (that are taught to them to be as such, anyways), but the rules are broken and then the rules are done away with and the 'unacceptable' practices become totally acceptable and good policies, and the ones who obeyed the rules and did not do the 'unacceptable' conduct are looked at as being stupid, and not using your brain. Well, if we were supposed to use our brains the whole time and not just obey, then I just decided to use my brain and not only did I stop following the policy, but I decided if I will not follow the policies, why should I stay in the policy-producing org? Perhaps if people did not rebel and start doing their own thing and having whoever they wanted over their house, then the rest of the obedient ones would still be obligated to asking for permission. Perhaps if some independent-minded thinkers had not said, I don't care what RW Davis says. I am going to use the internet if I want to... then the rest of the obedient ones would be confined to receiving their understanding of the Bible and the world they live in from whatever biased opinions they could get from their NTCC pastors, who tend to just mimick the likes of RW Davis and Rev. Ashemore. If you were lucky, then maybe your pastor had taken the initiative and bought a (gasp!) Dake Bible!! OOooohhh... how theological! This seems to be the only NTCC-approved Bible commentary, even though we were taught that if you will read a commentary, you should read 3 commentaries and compare them. Ok, which ones are approved to compare Dake to?
This brings up the point now about reading. One other practice that seems to be frowned upon is becoming educated about the Bible beyond what comes from RW Davis. I sat around that man for years hoping to learn something from him night after night at fellowship after church. He hardly said a word for years, although occasionally he would talk to those who were privileged to be seated at his table which was obviously exclusive.
One thing that I learned about by not following the 'acceptable' practice of only believing what was approved by the org, was what I think is a more accurate teaching on evangelism. I spent years thinking an evangelist is a single guy who maybe got a divorce so he can't be a pastor, driving around going from church to church preaching revivals.
Then I left NTCC, got some commentaries and read some books and found out that an evangelist is someone who brings the gospel to people, and teaches the Gospel. Evangelists were considered men who took the Gospel to people who had not known Jesus yet.
While in NTCC, the example I saw of missionary work was different American white guys leading a bunch of filipina women.
Then I took a course where they really taught missionary work according to the Bible and I found out that when you go somewhere to plant the Gospel to a people, you are supposed to find elders there to lead their own people, and then back off of them, giving them space to learn to stand on their own, and commend them to God and to the Word which is able to keep them from falling.
It's refreshing to hear that you can copy anything from pastor Kekle's blog. Especially after hearing pastor Brigg's angry threat of taking Greg Shunk to court if Greg did not stop publishing something from pastor Brigg's blog.
ReplyDeleteSis Ashmore has a blog with a copyright that prohibits any of her material from being copied. Apparently she has something to hide or it's just more of the typical cult tactics.
ReplyDeleteThere is a place in this world for copyrights but they are usually used to prevent people from making money off of your material.
Jeff
its a new day and age with the internet. a person can copy what they want and post it where ever they like.
ReplyDeleteit is the responsibility of the original writer to find copyrighted material posted elsewhere that they want removed from another website.
yet that's like trying to put out a forest fire with a bucket. especially one something spreads and goes viral.
people download the things to their computers, upload it, it gets taken down, people re-upload it. it never stops.
be sure what you put out on the web is something you want to stick forever.
i didn't know mrs ash had a blog. i did a search and found it. on the right she has links to other ntcc blogs.
ReplyDeletefrom one blog i found a crazy video briggs i think did.
he thinks he is slick since it is unlisted meaning that no one can see it unless they have the link.
so be sure to download the vid to your computer in case he decides to remove it. You can use www.keepvid.com to download it.
Here's the URL:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cry4dRBjfaU
Let's get ready to RUMBLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
this is so crazy. the battle of the brethren. i guess it goes to show what his mind state is in. Jesus was focused on saving people. Helping them and loving them. He wasn't focused on a fight with those who were against Him.
ReplyDeletei guess the video maker and maybe even ntcc feels there is a battle going on. i can see davis and kekel and the rest making it like this to keep people unified.
I didn't understand NTCC. RW Davis taught against the internet in your house, then they said they were going to use it in the org. And the reasoning I remember they had for, not only allowing it, but for promoting it was that it was going to be a blessing, and the enemy was using it so they should defend themselves, and that we (those of us in the congregation) were already using it anyways. That was kind of surprising to hear that people were using the internet when it was not acceptable yet. I also remember bible school students having multiple brother fellowship at a time when I am quite sure it was not ok yet. When I told a brother we should check on it before we do the same, the answer from RW Davis was we could have 2 brothers. What I see then is an org that has rules and socially 'unacceptable' practices (that are taught to them to be as such, anyways), but the rules are broken and then the rules are done away with and the 'unacceptable' practices become totally acceptable and good policies, and the ones who obeyed the rules and did not do the 'unacceptable' conduct are looked at as being stupid, and not using your brain. Well, if we were supposed to use our brains the whole time and not just obey, then I just decided to use my brain and not only did I stop following the policy, but I decided if I will not follow the policies, why should I stay in the policy-producing org? Perhaps if people did not rebel and start doing their own thing and having whoever they wanted over their house, then the rest of the obedient ones would still be obligated to asking for permission. Perhaps if some independent-minded thinkers had not said, I don't care what RW Davis says. I am going to use the internet if I want to... then the rest of the obedient ones would be confined to receiving their understanding of the Bible and the world they live in from whatever biased opinions they could get from their NTCC pastors, who tend to just mimick the likes of RW Davis and Rev. Ashemore. If you were lucky, then maybe your pastor had taken the initiative and bought a (gasp!) Dake Bible!! OOooohhh... how theological! This seems to be the only NTCC-approved Bible commentary, even though we were taught that if you will read a commentary, you should read 3 commentaries and compare them. Ok, which ones are approved to compare Dake to? This brings up the point now about reading. One other practice that seems to be frowned upon is becoming educated about the Bible beyond what comes from RW Davis. I sat around that man for years hoping to learn something from him night after night at fellowship after church. He hardly said a word for years, although occasionally he would talk to those who were privileged to be seated at his table which was obviously exclusive. One thing that I learned about by not following the 'acceptable' practice of only believing what was approved by the org, was what I think is a more accurate teaching on evangelism. I spent years thinking an evangelist is a single guy who maybe got a divorce so he can't be a pastor, driving around going from church to church preaching revivals. Then I left NTCC, got some commentaries and read some books and found out that an evangelist is someone who brings the gospel to people, and teaches the Gospel. Evangelists were considered men who took the Gospel to people who had not known Jesus yet. While in NTCC, the example I saw of missionary work was different American white guys leading a bunch of filipina women. Then I took a course where they really taught missionary work according to the Bible and I found out that when you go somewhere to plant the Gospel to a people, you are supposed to find elders there to lead their own people, and then back off of them, giving them space to learn to stand on their own, and commend them to God and to the Word which is able to keep them from falling.
ReplyDeletehi kris, this is doug. you can email me at realc4ever@gmail.com. i know you are skeptical, but i'd really like to catch up and talk more.
ReplyDeleteanyways, the only reason things have changed was not because a change of heart but because they were caught. if it had been a change of heart, they would have openly stated some policies or whatever they call it were changing instead of them doing things in secret.
since they were exposed / caught doing things in secret do they now have a change of mind.
no real repentance. no real change. just fake christians.
kekel, stop being afraid of the big bad wolf davis. the only power that comes is from God not a man.
The Internet is the single best thing that has ever happened to expose the fake known as NTCC.
ReplyDeleteWhat they labeled "The Devil" ended up exposing countless Devils.
Bro Johnson
Isn't that the truth. The NTCC called everything "the devil". The devilvision. The devilnet. People who left the NTCC, "the devil". Other denominations, "the devil". If they didn't call it the devil they called it self. Anything that you did that didn't directly benefit the NTCC was considered all about "self". Self car. Goinging on vacation was about self. Certainly owning a motorcycle was considered all about self. I never heard RWDs mansion called a self mansion. It was all about self unless RWD or Kekel owned it and then it was "a blessing come from GAWD".
ReplyDeleteAccording to them, God blessed RWD and Kekel but I say they blessed themselves just like they say a rich sinner blesses him or herself.
Jeff
The battle of the brethren. lol. I should make a video using that song "Should I stay or Should I go".
ReplyDeletei'd have to find some ntcc pics though.
we can have video wars i guess.
lol.
hey jeff, put that video up on your front page so people will see it.
ReplyDeleteKekel now wants to JAM/CONTROL/TAKE MONEY with/of/from you, from his updated blog in reference Graham Conference:
ReplyDeleteJust want to get together and jam on some Christian music, fellowship and perform our songs for a few hours or so? Be at the fellowship hall Monday morning with your favorite instrument, and lets make joyful noises together!
If you haven't made your own arrangements with anyone here, and you wish to stay with someone but no one has invited you, or you don't know who to stay with, send me your name and I'll add you to the list.
Sandwiches and snacks will be available for purchase.
Ha Ha Ha!! Milk the Turnip, That's What's Up!!!
Bro Johnson
God's blessing upon you,
ReplyDeleteM C Kekel
This should REALLY read as follows: satan's CURSING upon you, MC Lite Kekel
You know what's interesting is that some of what Pastor Kekel wrote actually is some decent stuff. Free lunches? The NTCC has the money. That ain't bad. Folks getting together to extend hospitality so that people can stay at their homes? Sounds like "Christianity" for a change. Folks, I try to be fair. I know the NTCC has been a cult for decades and no doubt it still is, but there are some good changes taking place. Maybe some people are reading these blogs and listening?
ReplyDeleteThe real shame here is all the junk that NTCC leaders put us all through for so many years. Needless to say I've got to give credit where credit is due and there are some improvements taking place within the NTCC.
Jeff Collins
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteAs leaders do, we have to constantly think outside the box.
I was just thinking that Kekel might have been the best thing to ever happen to NTCC.
Look at how NTCC was before he married Tonya. Now look at the changes. The organization has changed. Ministers do what they want to do and decide their schedule.
Would it be fair to say that NTCC is at a crossroads?
Bro Johnson
The ntcc are Hypocrites with a capitol H. They have based all of their teachings on years and years of Hypocritical, double standards, strict policies and the belittling of people to make themselves look better.
ReplyDeleteYou are right Jeff. Some of the changes that ntcc is going through now are decent and should have been in place from the beginning. The only problem is that every time these Hypocrites change their policies and find easier ways to make it into heaven, they draw attention to their double standards. They show a glimpse into the heart of kekel and rwd whom we have in the past followed to our own destruction. These guys have always been compromisers in that they believe in the elite living in luxury and enjoying worldly pleasures while the enslaved cult members that labor with blood, sweat and tears to produce the finances that make it all possible. All the while they have left a wake of carnage worse than Jim Jones and many other cult leaders have left.
Does this sound far fetched and radical? Look at the souls that have been damaged beyond repair. Death is death and spiritual death in the end has the same taste as physical death. These hypocrites are changing for what reason? Attendance is down, money is not flowing like it used to or maybe they are just wanting to liven things up a bit, but for whatever reason they are changing it makes them all look bad and brings out their true nature. Preachers that have spent their entire ministries preaching against compromise are now participating in this new revolution of hypocrisy and its like spitting in the faces of all of those that they have discarded.
I wonder to what degree of change kekel will take them. He can have a mega-church if he continues down this path. They are letting worldliness infiltrate the ntcc a little by little. They can't saturate the church with worldliness all at once. They have to introduce ideas and concepts one at a time.
Worldliness and Compromise are words that we use to describe the ntcc, because these are the words that they used to destroy us. By their own standards, I am worldly because I have facial hair sometimes. By their own standards, I am a compromiser because I listen to Christian music that has a beat. Now they are beginning to do the same things that others have done all along, but they continue to point us out as the devil and make excuses for their own compromise and worldliness.
I've got a fresh news release from the scrapheaps of discarded souls and tortured hearts. God is alive. We are X-ers and we can't be kept silent. Salvation and Christianity are for all, no matter how weak and depraved, hurt and bereaved, tortured and left destitute we may be. There will always be a remnant and we are grateful to God that we can do our part.
Don and Ange
Don and Ange wrote...
ReplyDeleteThese hypocrites are changing for what reason?
Jeff wrote...
I understand you completely. The NTCC has shown a pattern of change only to suit their agenda (which has not been Godly) and I certainly understand that. Having said that, offering free lunches and promoting hospitality (regardless of the reason) is a step in the right direction. I've come to the conclusion that the NTCC isn't likely to go away and people who should have left will stay regardless of what they hear or read. Right is right and wrong is wrong and I have no problem with calling a spade a spade but just maybe the NTCC leadership has the capacity for showing some compassion, decency and brotherly love and of that I'm an advocate regardless of their motives. It sure beats the former where people were getting dogged and used up while always sacrificing and hardly receiving anything in return. The NTCC has a lot of money and it's about time for them to start giving something back. A little is better than nothing. Maybe I'm getting soft folks, who knows.
There is one thing for sure. I've written a lot here that reflects quite negativity toward the NTCC. I meant every bit that I wrote and it ain't coming down. I just think that there are people in the NTCC who are at least trying to make some positive changes and if their motives are all crooked then thats on them.
If I were in prison and getting beat and starved every day and then suddenly they started feeding me and stopped beating me I could probable care less what their motives were if the truth be known. NTCC people need a break because they certainly haven't had one for years. Like I said, they could always leave but for many its obvious thats not going to happen.
Don and Ange, I do understand and agree you guys as well as anyone.
Y'all take care now, ya hear.
Your friend,
Jeff
Jeff said,
ReplyDelete"If I were in prison and getting beat and starved every day and then suddenly they started feeding me and stopped beating me I could probably care less what their motives were if the truth be known."
I hear you my friend; a little relief is better than none. It's a shame, that these people are in a spiritual prison and we are rejoicing that the warden is giving them some crackers and water.
I try really hard to take a softer approach but then I keep thinking about how wicked these people really are. I try to forgive and forget that 27 years of my life were destroyed because of ntcc, and I can forgive but forgetting is not easy. I can pray for them but I know that the organization is built on the endless servitude of many and fraudulent excess of a few. Satisfaction for me will come only when they repent and change into real Christians that responsibly preach the Gospel and nurture the souls of the weak, helping those in need instead of stepping all over them to get what they want.
Some of the changes that have come about are due to our blogs and specifically your blog which is read and visited by many more than ours or Greg's, albeit Greg's blog is extremely effective and informative. What makes people believe us is the sharp contrast that is presented between what is real and what is phony and hypocritical. The one thing that is very hard to do is to convince someone that is thoroughly brainwashed that they are in a cult. However, there are many that are seeing all of the changes and are on the precipice of leaving because everything they once stood for has been abolished.
I think the same harshness that the ntcc uses so effectively to brainwash innocent victims is necessary on our part to make people see that they are in a cult. They fight hard to convince people that they are the only church that will get people to heaven and they are very effective at doing what they do. We need to fight even harder to help people realize that ntcc will suck every drop of life out of them and will leave them bereft of worth as the years of their lives melt away.
To us it's all or nothing. We were either brainwashed cult members and our lives were ruined or we were spiritual giants following the only leaders on the planet who proclaim to be God's chosen caretaker's of the truth. If we are wrong and God is with the ntcc and all that they have stood for the past 40+ years than God's word will mean nothing because the greatest commandment of all is Love. All of the law and all of the do's and don'ts can be narrowed down to Loving God and Loving thy neighbor as thyself. This I have not seen in the ntcc.
Don and Ange
Don and Ange wrote...
ReplyDeleteI hear you my friend; a little relief is better than none. It's a shame, that these people are in a spiritual prison and we are rejoicing that the warden is giving them some crackers and water.
Jeff said...
That may have been the best statement that I've read on any NTCC blog or forum dating back to Factnet. I just started laughing when I read that. You may be right. I'm glad you guys are around.
Jeff
Don and Ange wrote...
ReplyDeleteI can forgive but forgetting is not easy.
Jeff said...
Oh I'll never forget. Over the years the NTCC has wrecked lives and left them in shambles. Pastors Kekel and Briggs must know that. In fact I'm sure they know that. Cults can do a lot of damage in the lives of many people. I guess if the cult is not going away at least it can change and in the end hopefully for the better. That would seem to be the case these days. Time will tell all.
Jeff
Don and Ange wrote...
ReplyDeleteSome of the changes that have come about are due to our blogs and specifically your blog which is read and visited by many more than ours or Greg's, albeit Greg's blog is extremely effective and informative.
Jeff wrote...
This blog wouldn't even get read if it weren't for folks like you guys, Greg, Bro Johnson and many others. Nevertheless I believe we are collectively doing some good. In fact I know we are. There are not many of us left. It does get tiresome after a while but I know there is a need. Messed up church organizations will always exist and that is the sad part. Factnet is huge and yet cults still thrive in America. If people wanted to know the rest of the story they could find it, but many people don't. Some people simply can't and won't face the reality that they've been deceived for years. They just can't bear the truth so they deliberately live in denial.
Well I live in the country where it's very peaceful and quite and the most important thing to me is to live in peace. I didn't have peace while I was with the NTCC. Not even close. In fact it was totally the opposite. I was at home all day with my little boy and it was so peaceful.
Christianity is about more than a pastor picking apart every inch of someones life. Salvation by grace is about more than judgment and constantly living in fear of eternal damnation because some judgmental pastor who can't even quote "live right" himself said you stepped the wrong way.
I can't stand the NTCC I was a part of and I never want to be part of a group like that again. I don't plan to either.
Jeff
Don and Ange wrote...
ReplyDeleteAll of the law and all of the do's and don'ts can be narrowed down to Loving God and Loving thy neighbor as thyself. This I have not seen in the ntcc.
Jeff said...
Amen to that with no ifs ands or buts.
Jeff
When has ntcc EVER given something out for Free?? Free Sandwiches,free room. Mike is doing anything and everything that he can to get folks to come to Washington. Bring there wallets to keep his empire going. Now he has changed Gods commands. God Did not tell rw davis anything now did he. All seminary rules have been done away with. Why is that. There were there for your protection,right? So no asking for permission on having folks over to your own home? Going on that stupid wall,done away with. Students can now play board games like Uno and games with dice? how about those standards for dress,has that been done away with? Have as many kids as you want over for a birthday party? On and on. can anyone say,COMPROMISE
ReplyDelete!
Ntcc is a SHAM AND A SCAM! They treated so many of us like dirt. Used us up and then tossed us away. We are using our voice and let the world know what ntcc is all about. They know they can not survive staying the same. IF we EXPOSE them. Cover up,and Damage control is there mode these days!
Make ntcc look like a Mainstream church. Bring in folks that have no idea what they are like and have been like.
Folks didn't you know it was all a mistake. Rw davis was clueless and never heard from God. because if there changing the rules. Then God must have been confused,right!
Not all of us are stupid Mike. We know what your up to!
April
Digusting. What a love fest going on with Jeff and Mike on his blog. Make me want to puke!
ReplyDeleteCome on now, Jeff has done as much or more than any of us to expose ntcc, rwd and kekel. Sometimes folks try to see the best in a bad situation. It's hard to show mercy where none was given or to choose kind words. It would do us all good to have a soft spot in our heart in spite of how hateful they have treated us. While it is important to call a spade a spade, there will come a time when we need God's mercy in our lives.
ReplyDeleteSaying all that, my own personal belief is that ntcc needs to be attacked relentlessly, because they are relentless. People in ntcc need a glimpse of real Christianity and the love of god. Like kekel once said, the X-men all have their gifts and special abilities, but what he forgot to mention is that the X-ers are the good guys. Not sure what our gift is but we are working hard to find it.
Don and Ange
Anonymous wrote...
ReplyDeleteDisgusting. What a love fest going on with Jeff and Mike on his blog. Make me want to puke!
Jeff said...
I understand why you would feel that way. Don't forget; for every one good word I've said toward Pastors Kekel or Briggs or the NTCC, I've said 10,000 words highlighting their hypocrisy. If it weren't for this blog, Don and Ange's, The Pelfrey's, the Shunk's and Factnet, the NTCC wouldn't have changed much at all. What happened is a lot of people read all these forums and started complaining and or leaving altogether and change became necessary. Not only that I believe that certain NTCC ministers started to really recognize just how messed up the NTCC has truly been and they probably started getting more of a conscience.
I've not made apologies for my stance concerning the NTCCs double standards, abusive pastors, greedy business ways, money hording and extorting practices, conniving brainwashing tactics that have resulted in a hoard of women cleaning the Kekel's house. I also don't plan to make apologies for the words that I've written to Pastor Kekel. To everything there is a season. There is a time to slam a crooked organization and a time to acknowledge when someone is doing something good. There is definitely time to show respect to one another, and Pastor Kekel showed me respect by posting my first message and responding to it and consequently, I rightfully returned such respect toward him.
It's amazing that he showed me such or any respect at all considering how thoroughly I've blasted him, his family and his organization which he of course is the CEO of. In doing that Pastor Kekel has shown a spirit of forgiveness that I've hardly ever seen in my life, cause buddy had he written the things about me and my family that I've written about him and his, we'd be going back and forth to this day.
I can't stand the way he has promoted the cleaning of his house by NTCC women. I detest that as much as any practice the NTCC has ever committed. I've called him a pimp and his wife a pimpstress yet he still has shown me respect. I've written about the 39 acre land deal extensively and dogged everyone in the NTCC leadership and yet he has still shown me respect. I've extensively highlighted the double standards where his son has been given privileges that virtually all the other NTCC children have been denied and their parents placed in hell for even considering to allow and yet once again, he has still shown me respect. Why?
Maybe because through it all, Pastor Kekel has a little more Christianity in him than many of us have suspected despite all the deeds that I've highlighted. People can change and people can forgive and despite all the abuse that I and my family endured while we were with the NTCC, I can forgive them and the best way for me to do that is by showing one of their leaders respect who has showed me the same. A whole lot of folks could learn a lesson in "loving thy neighbor" for the way Pastor Kekel has treated me, because whether or not the things that I wrote were correct, (which I'm convinced they were) they were very dogmatic toward Pastor Kekel and his family. The average person would be wanting to fight me, not hardly respect me. Buddy I've been going at the guy for about three years now constantly and full force. Have you? And if so did you start a blog, post your name and picture to it and place your phone number on it so there was no doubt who was doing all the blasting? If your are not Greg Shunk, Don or Ange or one of the Pelfrey's than no you haven't.
continued below:
I've placed my phone number on this blog and my phone has gotten blown up over the last couple years with some folks who've appreciated the content of this blog and some seriously agitated NTCCers called wanting to know if I had a life. So before you bark up the love fest tree between me and Pastor Kekel you might want to consider all the facts. You catch more bees with honey than with salt. If you endeavor to live life like the Bible shows a Christian should, you might consider once again reading Ecclesiastes Chapter 3 cause there is a time to do something other than blast the same guy and his family day in and day out. Christianity or no Christianity, to a degree, I try and live a decent and peaceful live.
ReplyDeleteThat doesn't mean I can't share the real story about the NTCC with people which I have. I can truly forgive, and Pastor Kekel would be welcome at my house for dinner. I don't know about his Son because he might kick my butt or at least try. I'm still not an advocate of the NTCC and this blog ain't going anywhere. Just because you can't stand a Church organization doesn't mean you can't love your neighbor and Pastor Kekel falls in the category the last time I checked.
Jeff
that is where we differ. Ntcc is NOT a CHURCh organization. There a cult. A cult once ,always a cult!
ReplyDeleteMike K. Can change himself to any situation. I have seen him smile at folks. Turn around and get his dead serious stare. Trying to come off as the big bad Big man of ntcc. Sorry,whatever he says is not to be trusted. Come on sweet just like a loving cult leader. Look we love you. Come on back,we are so much more hype and with it these days. those rules come and the go. Boy there so much better then other churches,NOT! Folks are going to fall for this junk. There pretending,so get folks back in. And who knows,it may go right back to the nasty way it has always been.
ReplyDeleteChameleon in a suit. Don't trust any of those men any farther then I can throw them!
If Mike really wants to get a Heart. And acknowledge the mess they made in people's lives.
April
i don't think they will ever get the backbone to acknowledge what they were doing was wrong.
ReplyDeleteof preaching against things while they themselves did those things and the only reason they changed them was because they were caught... not because they had a change in mind or heart.
can you acknowledge these things ntcc ? that is real change and real repentance.
doug hardy
Anonymous wrote...
ReplyDeletethat is where we differ. Ntcc is NOT a CHURCh organization. There a cult. A cult once ,always a cult!
Jeff said...
No, where we differ is that you haven't read the things I've written as effectively as you should have. Have you not read where I've referred to the NTCC as a "cult" probably 50,000 times?
That has nothing to do with showing one another respect like Pastor Kekel and I have during our most recent interchange of messages. If people expect me to do nothing other than jump down Pastor Kekel's throat continually they have misread my way of doing things. If the man shows me respect it's only right to return the same and I will not apologize for that.
This has nothing to do with Christianity but rather common decency which many NTCC pastors and leaders have shown very little of over the years. In fact they've shown just the opposite. If you are expecting me to conduct myself like they have you are sadly mistaken. I've blasted them for approximately 3 consecutive years now and I will recognize their positive attributes as well as their negative ones.
Read my profile. I quote myself here as having written: "Hello, my name is Jeff Collins. I spent many years as a member of the New Testament Christian Church, NTCC. Unfortunately (while with the NTCC), the negative experiences severely outweighed the positive and consequently my wife and I decided to leave the NTCC once and for all.
Notice I wrote that the negative experiences severely outweighed the positive. Did that mean there was no positive. Not enough to keep me around for sure but there was some positive. Yes the NTCC is a text book cult hence qualifying them as being categorized as a genuine cult. I was also quite mixed and messed up while I was with the NTCC as well, but I didn't have bad intent. I also don't believe that everyone in the NTCC has bad intent. I think they've been brainwashed to the degree that they are unable to recognize right from wrong. Well now I think that some of them are starting to recognize the difference and I think some of them are starting to do something about it and Pastor Kekel might just be one of those people and if I'm wrong than so be it. If the man acts with decency toward me (regardless of his intent)I will return the same because I'd rather have peace than conflict and that is who I am and if anyone expects me to apologize for that they can forget it.
Jeff
rw davis is famouse for saying,folks down crying there hearts out to God at the altar. Are you really sorry for the sins and wanting forgiveness? Or are you just sad because you were caught?
ReplyDeletehow old is this cult organization? And there just NOW got this change of heart. taking away "seminar" rules. Letting kids play sports,go on family vacations,kids tossing down gang finger signs.allowing ntcc kids to attend secular college,Not required to attend a c onference without the threat of losing your ministers license,women wearing pants in some situations,some women in ntcc have jobs. And why are these changings going on NOW???
Because the cat was caught with the mouse in his mouth. We have exposed them to the world. The newspaper articles,internet,blogs. Folks stuck in the cult. Know have resources to reach out and talk to others that have come out from under there brainwashing fog. More folks are putting two and two together. And are jumping ship more and more. And control freaks can not have that happen. So to stop folks from leaving. Lets make it all cushy and nice. Why would you ever want to leave ntcc when you can have a LIFE! and a man is not breathing down your back!
The snake is Mike K. and there going to do anything to keep there momey machine pumping in money! Act like none of this is any different. Oh we can make folks act like Line he is trying to pull. If that was the case. Then why nmake these changes NOW! Think about that folks that are still in ntcc. Stop funding there lifestyle. And REALLY Live your life for God!
April
those papers that I and others got after the Fake Bible school. Are nothing but ink on a paper.
ReplyDeleteMike K. Is not a preacher. Rw davis is not an apostle! It is all a facade.
Ntcc is not a church. That is there to reach lost souls. I know there are a few genuine folks in ntcc. When they start out!! Not many stay genuine after five,ten years in the ntcc so called ministry.. Slowly you do lose your indenity. Happens to everyone!
April
April said...
ReplyDeleteNot many stay genuine after five, ten years in the ntcc.
Very true. Not many at all, and it's been my experience that the ones who do eventually leave.
Jeff
April your hatred is blocking your view the big picture
ReplyDeletesorry anon that hides behind the Anon. Got not hatred for ntcc. I got sympathy for all of the innocent folks that are like how I was. Innocent. Thinking this "church" is good to try out.Worst thing to happen was to walk through ntcc doors.
ReplyDeleteSo if you know that I have hatred shading my view. Then you must know why Mike is doing this "changes" now and not five,ten years ago. When rw davis was in Full control of this cult? It all seems very convient that this is all happening know. we all know everything changes in ntcc for a reason! So what is the reason?
I am a people watcher. while in ntcc I watched rw davis,I watched Mike K,tanya. all there actions. These folks have made there riches off the backs of others hard work. There losing those hard backs. As they lost that free labor after the civil war. and who loves using history in there messages!!!
No,it is not being hard. It is being realistic. Something that I was not when I first got swindled into this organization. the Truth has set me free. And the worldx needs to know before they make that wrong step I made. Ntcc is not Godly Organization. If they were. They know about being repentive and asking for forgiveness! But there Pride will stop them from ever doing that. IF,a big IF that ever happens. I can put some of that hope that there being genuine. Until then,there just in damage control.
So to this ANON,try opening your eyes. Come out from under the brainwashed fog. and learn the truth! You will be surprised what ntcc is all about.
April
Anonymous said,
ReplyDelete"April your hatred is blocking your view the big picture"
Don and Ange said,
We don't see it that way. We have all been through living hell with the ntcc. Everybody reacts differently and everybody responds differently.
Who really knows what the big picture is? To me the big picture is still the 27 years of my life that were lost. Am I ever going to get over it? It's happening right now as we speak and blog. This is very therapeutic.
To April it could be many years of her life and her families that they wasted in the ntcc. Jeff has been through a lot and has fought for years against the ntcc and definitely has earned his right to have an opinion. Only God knows how this is going to play out and it might just surprise us all.
We are all different and have our own unique perspective on what the big picture is. What makes this really cool is that we get to have our own opinions and have the liberty to present them as we please.
In my opinion, the ntcc is due for another split. The next one will be huge. Obviously rdub is out of the picture and no longer has control over the ntcc or the "compromise" that now exists would never be stood for. From 1969 until a few years ago it was cut and dry, black and white, my way or the high-way. Now all of the sudden, normal main stream things are beginning to happen in the ntcc at an alarming rate. Consider the following:
Would rdub have allowed skits and workshops in a conference?
Would rdub have a 4th of July picnic with volleyball, basketball and dozens of people in his back yard?
Would rdub allow sports and secular schooling for anybody except his own grandson?
Would rdub allow bluegrass festivals, dog shows, Football pants, TV commercials, and the list goes on and on and on....
Can we agree that kekel is now in control of the ntcc? Does anybody think that when rwd is gone that kekel will continue any of the strict policies that rdub instituted other than tithe and offerings?
My opinion is that when rdub is completely out of the picture and kekel is completely in charge that holiness will be thrown out the window. What are the preachers that have been preaching holiness for the past 40+ years going to do when this happens? They will have a decision to make. Many will see as we already have that they have wasted the majority of their lives and will leave the ntcc.
This of course is my opinion and could be right or wrong. Maybe kekel will convince the rest of the organization that his new and improved religion is just as good as rdubs. If it is possible, I would hope that whatever transition takes place that it will cause the least amount of destruction to the unknowing and blinded cult members in which many have good hearts but they are just mislead.
Until then we will continue to blog.
We breathe, therefore we blog.
Don and Ange
Hey Jeff,
ReplyDeleteWhen you get a chance, can you check your spam folder? Tks
whether you consider ntcc godly or not. they do at least preach Jesus and the need for Him for salvation.
ReplyDeletePaul said some preach Christ of envy , some preach Christ for strife, for the wrong reasons, yet he will rejoice because Christ is preached.
NTCC isn't perfect. This does not excuse their hypocrisy. Whether the changes are sincere or only on the surface God knows. God will make things known as well if they continue to try to hide things instead of being open and honest as a basic Christian would.
doug hardy
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteSomehow, we lost a long comment in the sea of forgetfulness(quoted from the book of Hezekiah), thought it might have ended up in your spam folder.
Don and Ange
There you go Don and Ange, there were three messages in the spam folder. I need to check it more often.
ReplyDeleteJeff
preaching about Christ does not do away with that there a cult. other church organizations are a cult. They preach about Christ. Once a cult always a cult.
ReplyDeleteI understand April.
ReplyDeleteIt is like this, NTCC has changed peoples lives. It is kind of like they make an honest bride out of you and then they start abusing you once your there wife. Then you feel obligated to make it last for better or for worst. You make excuses for the abuse. You tell others, but he/they love me. I see it like they can get someone to here the power of the Bible along with other stuff mixed in there. They make sure to be careful with you when your new and they teach the other workers/faithful church members to love you, hug you, woe you in. Once you have been convinced that there is "no turning back into the world", because your now changed, you are more likely to stay a long time under the oppression. There is love, some of it enforced. There is the power of the scripture to help enfluence a change in morals/ make honest wives, and clean up some people from there "wicked ways" sometimes. There is control, great fear, confusion, and more. There is also the thought that it is a military style organization, so you might compare it to a soldier getting his life together by joining the military only the military gives back in return for your sacrifice. Alot of People go to church because they have in mind to do better anyways, but when people enter NTCC they didn't know what they were in for. When people join the military there are not many surprises, they train for the military sometimes. For me I was furtunate to have had good experiences as often as bad experiences in NTCC, but thank God I am free. There are people with good intentions in NTCC, they didn't intend on being involved in the abuse it just happened.
ReplyDeleteIn an earlier thread dated 06-05-09 entitled "Life after the NTCC and NTCC friendships" Anonymous made this recent comment:
ReplyDelete"Anonymous said...
ntcc church pastor of oki japan broke my family apart,but that okay we had to go on with are life and the hurt,pain a child without her daddy because of this church but our blood is on that pastor and wifes hands so they have to stand before god for that i wish i could just see them one last time, cause i wish i could remember his name .i got a few things to say"
Don and Ange said,
We are sorry to hear another story of a family that has been split apart by the ntcc. You are right about this pastor and wife having to answer to God for what they have done.
This is how the ntcc splits up marriages and what usually happens in the aftermath. The smart spouse recognizes that the ntcc is a cult and is not willing to sell his or her soul to the ntcc so the other spouse is brainwashed into thinking that the ntcc is the only vehicle which will take them to heaven. They convince the weaker of the two, to depart from the other.
Now they either have a Tithe paying husband that is separated from the wife or they have a wife that can be matched up with a husband by the ntcc match making machine. Whatever the case may be, they have one person that they can manipulate for years until they become wise and start thinking for themselves. Most of the time they end up leaving after everything in their live has been destroyed.
April said it best in her recent post on this thread. The ntcc is just like an abusive husband. The wife thinks the husband will change and stop beating her or that she can change the husband by staying with him. Whatever the case may be, out of fear or some warped sense of love, the abused wife keeps returning for more abuse. We were all like this. We knew things were not right but kept holding on to the hope that the ntcc was a pure organization with good intentions. We were all used up and thrown away just like used toilet paper.
Can't you just see the bitterness dripping off of me? Yes, I am bitter at the thought of not just what happened to me, but what about the thousands of other people like this anonymous poster who has been separated from his family or from a future free from cult teachings and manipulations?
We forgive you ntcc, and hope that Jesus will do the same, however, we will not stop warning others about the tactics that you use to destroy peoples lives. As for my bitterness; it is being swallowed up in hope for a brighter future and God and time heals all wounds.
Don and Ange
kekel deleted his smear-campaign lies and damage-control posts from his public blog (and has probaly moved them to a private blog that does not have his name attached to it). So "kekel wrote on the bottom of his public blog that people have the right to copy anything they want from his blog"...??? That just does not impress us.
ReplyDeleteWhat should jump out at people is the fact that kekel feels the need to "give permission" for people to copy his "feel-good" balogna blog. Once a cult leader always a cult leader.
Doesn't kekel realize that normal churches don't place such heavy burdens on people like ntcc does? And isn't it obvious what a hypocrite kekel is putting heavy burdens on people that he himself is not willing to touch with one of his fingers? (Well, he probably raises only his middle finger to all those rules he expects YOU to keep while he just breaks those rules and does what he wants to do anyway...)
Once kekel's double standards were eXposed he started smear campaigns and damage control on blogs that have been deleted.
He really has a lot to hide and probably continues his lies in a less public forum. After all, as a cult leader kekel has to control information to keep his followers in line. If they get too much freedom and truth they will wake up and realize the ntcc is a controlling cult (as kekel's "permission" to copy his blog statement proves)!
People in ntcc just need to step back and acknowledge the truth abot the ntcc. Then they won't want to read or copy any more of kekel's lies.
Don and Ange
I lived in the same room with Mike and regarded him as my friend. He seemed to regard me as his friend too, and I hate to thing it was ALL fake. Like everyone, he is complex, and whatever his flaws, he's not 100% evil. I hope real change is at least possible.
ReplyDeleteIt is good that NTCC's policies are lightening up; those people need relief from the staple barren lifestyle we endured. But as for motives, I have to believe at this point that it's merely damage control. The only way what they do going forward will have any real credibility is if they openly acknowledge the things we discuss on these blogs and admit their past wrongdoing. Otherwise it's just eyewash and smoke and mirrors.
The new crop of leadership is well aware that they could achieve megachurch status (=even more wealth!) if they'd just be more normal. I think that once RW goes on to his reward, the morphing will get underway in earnest.
But if they don't come clean, they'll still be phonies.
Hi all. My name is David Dyal. I spent 4 years living in the Fort Bragg Christian Service'mans Home. I got there about a month after Don Hummel left. I was there during the problems with Rudy, Beja, Medrano, and Bob Simpson. I'm not posting this to bash the people, as I have heard all of them preach and have seen with my own eyes, the accomplishments that GOD, not the men, accomplished during the preaching, Bible Studies, soul-winning, and fellowship. Nor am I here to uphold the NTCC. It is my opinion that, at one point, most of these men were in tune with God, because I just can't believe that God would use such devout heathens and sinners in the way He used them at one point or another. I watched Rudy and Beja start out on fire for God, and it was seen in the services, and God accomplishing great things. At one time, there were probably ten teams of two people, out walking the streets of Fort Bragg soul winning, all because they loved God, and wanted to share Jesus. Under Medrano's regime at the home, he destroyed so many people that Fort Bragg was almost shut down. I also watched these men slowly fall from grace, and it was seen in their preaching and teaching, as it turned from God's grace and mercy, and His ability to save, heal, forgive sin, and deliver from bondage, to hard, conform or leave, NTCC way, or no way, my way or the highway, type preaching that was more NTCC rules and regulations than the Holy Bible. We were doing our best at one point and Mom Gaylord made the comment to me "This place should be full." At that point, I, along with many others, were so tired of being condemned for doing our best that I made up my mind to leave, but couldn't because I saw real, sincere people wanting something from God being destroyed, and I was doing my best to at least get them not to leave God, even if they left NTCC. I was happy when I PCSed to Alaska, where I met Chris Kinson and Vic Johansen. I still consider them some of my closest friends. They preached Jesus more so than NTCC, and yes, at that time, both of them tried to keep me going to NTCC, because they felt that was best for me. I don't fault them for that. Even then, they knew of people being hurt by the Organization. In my opinion, NTCC towards the military started out good...take a young naive GI out of the barracks, surround him with love and Jesus, keep his time occupied serving God, and he won't be tempted to get into the mischief surrounding military towns. On the other hand, all it had to be was Jesus, not all of these NTCC rules, regulation, and by-laws that eventually took the place of the Bible, and the Pastors word taking precedence over God's. I pray for NTCC, that they will see the light, and for the many, many people I have seen destroyed by NTCC, that they are still in touch with God somewhere.
ReplyDeleteThanks for that, Dave. It's comforting to know that in the middle of all the NTCC-inspired bungling around I was doing, that someone derived benefit. I guess people realized that I did mean them well. At the time, I regarded myself as an abject failure, but now I'm glad for every soul I failed to influence into the org. Glad you're still alive and well.
ReplyDelete