On the Reeds blog, Theresa Jeter wrote...This is truly sad and hurtful. I admire people who leave NTCC and never say a negative word about the church or its leaders. But no, most of you have to leave, hook up with other disgruntled people and run their mouth. There is no excuse for that and it effects innocent people like L.C. who does not know our leaders to know any better. I am shocked, hurt and ashamed of you for what your doing.
Sis. Jeter
Jeff said...
The fact that Sis Jeter made the comment was truly a shame and it was laden with yet more NTCC style double standards. I wonder how many times Sis Jeter wrote RWD, Kekel, Olson or any other NTCC pastor a letter condemning them for smearing and discrediting countless people who have left the NTCC? Do you think she has ever written RWD even once? Fat chance. Well I've been in some of the same conferences that she has and RWD has certainly said quote "NEGATIVE" things about people who have left the NTCC. I specifically remember what RWD said the very conference following the Taylor's departure. "They loved their house more than they loved God". Well what kind of crap is that? Did you ever hear RWD or all the other NTCC pastors smear the names of countless people who've left the NTCC? Have you? Well I certainly have more times than I care to remember so what in the world is the difference.
I'll tell you the difference!!! HYPOCRISY!!! It's perfectly fine for the NTCC leadership to smear the names of people who've left the org, but as soon as someone who's left has one thing to say about Old Double Standard Davis, Conniving Kekel, or the NTCC ORG, all of a sudden it's quote "sad and hurtful". I didn't see Sis Jeter or any other people who like to judge us, stand up in conference to give Old Double Standard Davis a piece of their mind while RDUB was smearing folks who left the NTCC? Not only that, the thread where Sis Jeter posted her rebuking, wasn't anything like you find on this blog and I'm not making any apologies. The NTCC leadership can smear the names of everyone who leaves the NTCC and I can call them a bunch of double standard hypocrites and there ain't no difference; hypocrite.
Not only that, she said that she "admired people who left the NTCC and "NEVER" say a negative word about the church or it's leaders? ARE YOU SERIOUS? REALLY? ARE YOU KIDDING? Typical NTCC garbage. NTCC pastors can air everyone's dirty laundry anytime they want but God forbid someone do it to them. The NTCC is so messed up it's unbelievable. The NTCC has more double standards than Mike Tyson has punches. The Kekels son is attending a Catholic Secular College and the Kekels are still in charge even after Old Double Standard Davis stood up in conference saying that if your kid didn't attend the NTCS you were a failure as a Christian parent? He talked about how great is was that someone's kid was attending the NTCS and there is no telling how many times he dogged out the Catholic church, and his own grandson not only ISN'T attending the NTCS but he is attending a Catholic College? Are you serious? Shocked, hurt and ashamed? I'm shocked, hurt and ashamed that I was ever associated with the New Testament Church Cult period and I'm also ashamed that I was ever associated with RWD, the abusive, double standard, hypocrite jerk.
So it's ok for the NTCC leadership to get a free pass to talk and preach about people who leave their cult but it's not ok for us to do the same about them after we leave? Stop being a bunch of judgmental hypocrites and maybe well stop quote, "hooking up with other disgruntled people and running our mouths" like you just did Sis Jeter. It is what it is. If you don't want to play with the big dogs you better stay on the porch. You see how I just talked/wrote? That is exactly how RWD and his pastors talk about people who leave the NTCC; real hard and strong and they don't make any apologies regarding their approach and I'm not making any either. The days of me getting rebuked by people in the NTCC are done. Jesus let the Pharisees have it and I let the NTCC Pharisees have it also.
Additionally, I think this blog is the place to hash this kind of thing out. The Reeds are trying to keep this kind of thing down on their blog which is why I didn't attempt to post my response there. So there you have it. The Reeds were expected to just quietly leave the NTCC and "keep their mouths shut" like good little boys and girls. Don't rock the boat little Johnnie and be a good little boy. NOT!
Jeff
Jeff, you're right on the mark. I told my wife this morning as we were on our way to church that Theresa Jeter really opened herself up with that foolish and, well, flat out dumb rebuke of my wife and I.
ReplyDeleteI completely understand where she is coming from because I used to be there myself. When you're on that side of the fence, you really can't see how Pharisaical you are. Thank God for His deliverance. I can't tell you how much more wonderful life is now, out from underneath that bondage and man-made condemnation.
As I pondered the other day about all of the years with Ntcc, I realized that my wife and I were part of a 25-year ponzi scheme and we got burned.
I have heard RWD many times say, "I marvel at how dumb preachers are". The last time I heard that was when we went to one of those so-called conferences in the PI. There were no day services, and the women were cut loose to go shopping. All of the preachers were sitting in the hotel foyer listing to the same old diatribe of RWD. He actually said these words: "Preachers are dumb. They have bought into the idea that they can spend their money for the work of the Lord and He'll take care of them when they're old". I was sitting there thinking, Oh my God, is anybody else hearing what I'm hearing? He's talking about us!
I really think that he realized that I was affected by what he was saying because the very next day, in the hotel foyer, he undid everything he said the previous day. He said, "You brethren have sacrificed and God remembers and He will take care of you in your old age. So cast you bread upon the water", yada, yada, yada.
My thought was, yeah, he's right, we're dumb because we have followed him all of these years and what do we really have to show for it, and all the while he's become a millionaire. Yep, we were dumb, but not anymore.
It is very interesting that no one from NTCC ever shows or proves what is being said is a lie. They may say it is a lie, but never give evidence to the contrary. They tell us to keep our mouths shut or tell us that we are filled with bitterness, but they never say here is proof.
ReplyDeleteThose of you that remain in NTCC should ask yourself a few questions.
Who are you more afraid of asking a question; the Lord Jesus or Pastor Davis or Rev. Kekel?
(Be Honest!)
Then ask youreself the question; should it be that way?
Another question to ask; Am I working and sacrificing for God or is it really because I don't want to be considered a failure by NTCC leaders?
Is my sacrifice a freewill offering to God or is it because I have heard others rebuked during conferences for loving a house, job, or family more than I love God or that they are lazy?
When I stand before God is he going to say how many people did I invite to church or is he going to say did I love him and my neighbor?
Am I saved by my works or am I really saved by grace?
Read, study, and pray about Acts chapter 15.
Many of us that post on this blog have forgiven any wrong we received from NTCC. But I am beginning to undersatand that forgiveness does not mean keeping our mouths shut.
I was praying the other day and I told God that I was angry, but I was going to work out that anger then and there. I told God that much of what I was angry about was difficult to put in words and he helped me.
I was angry that I allowed NTCC to teach me to distance myself from my family, I was angry because I left God's grace and love and replaced it with works, I was angry because I have found it so hard to relate to others because I had become a Pharisee, and many other things.
But now there is no anger. God is opening doors. I am shocked by all the love I am receiving from other churches. They are not the compromising devils that we have been led to believe. Many support missionaries, many have invited to take us to dinner; they want to give of themselves for others and not take. They have food banks and just want to help people and are not asking for anything in return. They volunteer and enjoy doing so. No one is telling them that they are not saved if they don't; they just love people.
One last question and I will close for now. The Bible said for us to give hoping nothing in return. Why is it that when you soul win you think of what can these people do for my church; can they pay tithe, can they become soul winners? Why are you not taught to look at each individual as a soul that may die and go to hell if they don't accept Christ?
We know how you think, because we use to be you.
Bro. Bellamy
no one is disgruntled jeter. many are just sharing their experiences and telling their stories.
ReplyDeletethey even spread lies about me and i wasn't even a big fish. they said i left for a business which is so far from the truth it's ridiculous.
i left for many reasons, some of which I can't exactly remember but I believe some of it to be their hypocrisy, lies, their real estate business, and church financial behavior.
I was on my way as Jeff said to be punching a clock at 90 years old. Not that I mind working till 90 if that is what God wants, but if he doesn't then i'm not going to do it. NTCC makes it difficult to find a good job and keep it. As a result, you're stuck with low paying jobs.
Then, you try to do a business like R...W...D-D-D-Davis-Davis (some max headroom for ya)
talks about doing and other ministers do and you get your case jumped on and preached at.
i never thought it was right for church "A" to send the money it received to church "B". Church A and the money it receives should be used for all of Church A's purposes.
Now that i'm out of ntcc, perhaps I can get back to Jesus and living for Him like I was before the NTCC (way before bible school as well as during) sucked it out of me and caused me to live by rules and methods which God would never have anyone to do.
Question: How is it judgmental to say Kekel is a hypocrite if we were all taught certain things are wrong, yet he does them himself in the darkness of night ? An undercover hypocrite I guess you could call him.... Jesus said be sure your sin will find you out.
That's in your King James Bible. (no, KJV isn't bad, i still read it as well as other versions).
When I first started looking at some factnet stuff, i thought "No, i won't read this. it's lies and disgruntled people." Just like a good slave, i didn't want my massas disappointed or angry wit me.
But dat ol God dere dun tol' me (ok, i'll write in english).
But the reason why I read it is because God, by His Holy Spirit who said He will lead and guide us into all truth said that some of the stuff on factnet is true.
So i continued to read and lo and behold, it was true !
Even during a few services when I started working a job on nights and kekel was trying to preach at me, it had no effect, because each time he did it, I felt Gods Spirit comforting me. So I continued to go because I was enjoying the preaching.
Now I go to a church, (same one as MDR), and the pastor says sometimes what no one in ntcc will ever say:
It doesn't matter who your pastor is, what group you belong to, or who you know, all that matters is your relationship with Him !
well, i'll be shuffling along for now. Please give an answer to the above question as well. Perhaps I am just missing something.
God gave you NTCC leaders space and time to repent but you laughed and said no one will find out. No one will know.
Luke 12:
Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.
For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.
Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.
douglas hardy
Theresa Jeter said "There is no excuse for that and it effects innocent people like L.C. who does not know our leaders to know any better. I am shocked, hurt and ashamed of you for what your doing."
ReplyDeleteHey peeps, it sounds to me like what Theresa Jeter is really saying in her post is this; "I know our leaders suck, but LC doesn't, so we shouldn't tell her"!
Theresa, Theresa, you need to lay off some-a-dat-dare Kool-aid! Me's tink you might be a little drunk.
Theresa Jeter said:
ReplyDelete"I admire people who leave NTCC and never say a negative word about the church or its leaders. But no, most of you have to leave, hook up with other disgruntled people and run their mouth."
Don said:
I admire people who stay in the NTCC and never say a negative word about those who have left. But no, most of you have to stay and hook up with other bitter ntcc'rs and run your mouth.
How childish is that? That is basically an argument that a four year old would participate in. This statement proves why our existence is working. This statement by Theresa also makes the ntcc look worse than ever. Theresa Jeter, I know you are just a pawn on a chessboard being moved around until you are no longer needed. We were the same. We are the voices of those you once loved. People are asking you ntcc'rs to think and ask yourselves some serious questions. It's your life you are wasting, nobody else's. You can't relive it. Not only are you destroying your own life but the lives of all those you invite to church.
My question to Teresa is this...We left Teresa, why does the leadership of NTCC decide that it is their duty to tell all about the ones that have left in order to destroy their character in the eyes of those that have not left? Yes Teresa, it is truly sad that these disgruntled and misguided so called ministers of God would rather try to and destroy the character of some further than do what the bible says and be ye humbled before God least ye fall! Teresa, don't be SO CRITICAL!!!! I am not disgruntled, but I do have several bones to pick with NTCC! This is only the beginning...
ReplyDeleteMy thought was, yeah, he's right, we're dumb because we have followed him all of these years and what do we really have to show for it, and all the while he's become a millionaire. Yep, we were dumb, but not anymore.
ReplyDeleteUm.....Actually he's a Multi-Millionaire.
Diana Taylor wrote, "why does the leadership of NTCC decide that it is their duty to tell all about the ones that have left in order to destroy their character in the eyes of those that have not left?"
ReplyDeleteThat's a good question, Diana. I was in the PI and RWD was there for a so-called conference. Out of nowhere, he blindsided us with details of what happened to my first pastor, Lee Taylor. I remember the impact it had on me. My thought was, why did he feel the need to tell me this? I guess RWD felt he needed to spread some manure around. Whether what he told me was true or not, I was devastated emotionally. The point of this is, yes, RWD does talk trash about people when they leave.
Just before we left, he shared some things about the Pelfreys and you could tell he was gloating in their misfortune. Then he put a disclaimer at the end, "but I don't rejoice in the downfall of people". Oh, YES, you do, you liar.
He enjoys sharing negative reports about people who leave, in the spirit of character assassination, because then he is justified in his own mind. I've listened to him for years, eating people up and spitting them out, like they were a bad chew.
Personally, RWD needed to destroy Lee Taylor's character to me, so that he could prop himself up in my eyes. It goes back to that idea that all must have allegiance to RWD, and to him only.
MDR
Here is how it works. RWD knows everything about everyone because of who he is. People tell him everything. Well RWD doesn't expect anyone to know anything about him because he is the head honcho and he doesn't expect people to talk about him either. RWD has threatened Gods judgment against anyone who might have a word to say against him and I say that's bologna.
ReplyDeleteWell we are learning things about RWD and we are talking about him just like he talks about everyone else. The difference is he is trying keep people loyal to him and in the NTCC and I am trying to show people how much of a crook RWD is so they can get out of the NTCC and get on with their life.
Jeff
I don't know what L. Taylor was ever involved with and it wouldn't matter to me if I did know. I guarantee it's no worse than anything that RWD has done since he was so called "saved". RWD is as much of a so called "sinner" as anyone I've ever met. He's abusive, hypocritical, regularly practice double standards, money hungry, a swindler and according to more than one witness an adulterer, a backbiter and there is no need to elaborate on anymore.
ReplyDeleteFor RWD to talk about L. Taylor was no more than the pot calling the kettle black. RWD knew that people thought highly of L. Taylor so RDUB had to discredit Taylor so that people wouldn't think that Taylor had valid reasons for leaving the NTCC.
RDUB always says the same things, "They don't want GAWD", "They want Sin", "They love the world more than they love God", "They love their house more than they love God", "They need to get saved", "They need to pray through", "They need to get a hold of GAWD for a change". RWD is an idiot. He doesn't need to do any of the above. All those things are way beyond where he is at. He needs to just get some COMMON decency and learn how to exercise some consideration for others and all that other stuff could then possibly follow.
How can I say all this? Because too may ministers have all said the same things about RWD and it's clearly true.
RWD is not a nice guy and he ain't right and I'm not talking about being right with God either. That dude just ain't right. He is a jerk and that is the best way I can describe him.
Jeff
Jeff said "That dude just ain't right. He is a jerk and that is the best way I can describe him."
ReplyDeleteJeff, I think what your saying about RWD can be summed up in one word.
RWD is a Sociopath!
mdr
who's to say LC doesn't know? Just saying.... I have a relationship with God, I've got the Holy Spirit... I have a brain. No one has or had to tell me anything about anyone.
ReplyDeleteTruth of the matter is I knew before I was even in it.....
More to come from me;)
LC
Jeff, what's your email?
ReplyDeleteIn addition I encourage you to read Debbie's original post.
ReplyDeleteNothing about that post was negative in my eyes she didn't mention NTCC once. (I had to go back and read, trying to figure out why TJ would attack Debbie?)
Honestly, on Debbie's blog she always posts what is on my heart.... How can this be? I don't have conversations with her other than an email here or there and "liking" things on each other's FB pages. Hmmm? Maybe it's the Holy Spirit?
LC
Sorry, but who is LC?
ReplyDeletewouldn't everyone like to know...
ReplyDeleteI will tell soon, if you haven't figured me out already;)
-LC
I thought Barnes' initials were CL. Is Rev. Barnes, LC Barnes or CL Barnes? ?
ReplyDeleteOh wow! It's LC Barnes!
ReplyDeleteKristofer whether LC is male/female we don't know. At this time we'll just have to wait til they tell us who they are. LC has been following the blogs and Theresa Jeter is upset because they're listening to all the true things being said about Theresa's leaders.
ReplyDeleteDeborah Shunk
Do you think he/ she is Pastor Barnes? He/she even said "if you haven't figured me out already." I guess this is how the rumor has started then, because he/she has not said yet who ... ah forget it HE IS!
ReplyDeleteThis is off subject... sorry for that, but the mansion in Arizona is not IN Grant's name now. His name is on the BENEFICIARY deed. It means it's his when Verna and Rodger both die.
ReplyDeleteStill wondering how they got the Nunez's to give them that grandiose house with very impressive features for only 10 dollars. Anyone know?
Also as far as "LC" goes. It may be L.C. Barnes but you never know on these blogs so I certainly wouldn't jump to any conclusions.
ReplyDeleteI've been guilty of jumping to conclusions around here before and it's bit me in the butt a few times.
Only time will tell.
Jeff
Kristofer said:
ReplyDelete"Still wondering how they got the Nunez's to give them that grandiose house with very impressive features for only 10 dollars. Anyone know?"
Don and Ange said:
10 bucks is nothing more than a loophole so they don't have to pay gift tax on the property.
MDR said:
ReplyDelete"I realized that my wife and I were part of a 25-year ponzi scheme and we got burned.
I have heard RWD many times say, "I marvel at how dumb preachers are".
Don and Ange said:
This is why we have absolutely no reservation about blasting the ntcc, rwd or his tightly knit group of loyal suck-ups that he surrounds himself with. The dude has no conscience. Not only has he made himself and his cohorts rich off of us but he mocks good people openly for being dumb enough to fall for his bag of gags.
And then you get ntcc'rs like TJ who is nothing more than a peon in the grand scheme of things as far as these abusive hypocrites are concerned, coming out in their defense. Meanwhile the grand poobah himself sits up there in Graham laughing at TJ and everyone like her. They are living in the lap of luxury. They are a bunch of FAT CAT's enjoying a gluttonous feast and reveling in excess while the people they laugh at sacrifice their futures and the stability of their families. They hang on every word that flies across the pulpit. The leadership of the ntcc beats them down with insults and snide remarks, slandering and humiliating them while they fight over who gets to polish rwd's shoes and who gets to clean kekels house. This is a sickening bunch of downright scoundrels that have no regard for their fellow human beings. They are the lowest of the low, the filthiest of the filthy, and we will call continue to call them out.
Don and Ange
Kristofer said:
ReplyDelete"Still wondering how they got the Nunez's to give them that grandiose house with very impressive features for only 10 dollars. Anyone know?"
Don and Ange said:
We can imagine how that conversation went:
Nunez: We love you more than anyone on this planet and we would like to give you our mansion.
rwd: Instead of saying thank you, he says, make sure you sell it to me for 10 bucks so we don't have to pay gift taxes on it. I wouldn't be surprised if he conned them into paying all the closing costs also.
You better believe it Don and Ange. RWD called his preachers "DUMB". I've been saying this all along. From a common sense stand point, RWD is far wiser than his preachers.
ReplyDeleteThey spend their own money on this whole NTCC pioneer church building business and RWD just sits back and laughs at them. But here is the real sick part. RWD never puts a stop to it. If I was an NTCC pastor and I read what Matt Reed wrote, I'd resign the same day. RWD just uses people and that is so clear given Matt Reed's testimony. It's not like it's the first time I've heard that kind of stuff but that just confirms it even more.
So NTCCers, how many more witnesses do you need? The Bible says three and there have been about 300 on this blog. RWD is using you. Whatever. Hopefully for your sake and the sake of your family, (if you have one) you figure it out sooner than later.
Jeff
Don and Ange said..."And then you get ntcc'rs like TJ who is nothing more than a peon in the grand scheme of things as far as these abusive hypocrites are concerned, coming out in their defense."
ReplyDeleteThe said thing is that RWD will say underhanded comments about her husband, mock the places that Theresa shops at, and will later direct them to the next NTCC duty station. The Jeter's are in Austin, TX and probably had fellowship meetings with Fort Hood. Maybe Jeter's also upset about not getting included in the gift presentation (playing Pomp and Circumstance and they carry the gun in) by MDR. Maybe they're the bitter ones.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteRev Jeter didn't make out very well in Atlanta either. The result was the typical recall back to Graham for retraining and to pump up Graham's tithe base. Same old song and dance. Rev Jeter probably has the right mentality to be in Texas. Strong Republican, good old boy, truck driving type. He'll probably run off some animal lovers because he acts like he hates animals just like RWD. He has a history of extensively preaching against animal lovers.
Rev Jeter is kind of extreme if the truth be known. He is borderline psychotic and he is certainly an extremist. He is also very outspoken. No doubt that is where his wife gets it from. Hopefully he will come to his senses and get out of the NTCC.
She has too much time on her hands. They're just meeting in a conference room now and have 3 services. Better step it up Jeter and get it together before conference so you can tell Olson that you are "Winning". Outspoken in NTCC is code for being a blowhard or a loudmouth gossip, lacking substance and making lots of noise. Teresa..."Bless me RWD for I have sinned and not spoken against exNTCCers for so long.." RWD..."Say 3 hail Rogers, defriend your Facebook friends, and get me some Maxwell House and cherry pie woman"
ReplyDeletecherry pie? No, no, no! That would be chocolate or coconut cream pie thank you very much!
ReplyDeleteWhat's Anthony's first name? The church locator lists him as C. T. Johnson.
ReplyDeleteThats a scary lookin picture Jeff! Now that girl could use a little make up or maybe draw some hot bath water mixed with soju.
ReplyDeleteIt looks like the man (Nunez) owns a Concrete contracting business in Glendale. I ran a search on the name. I read also it is estimated they make annually 1-2.5 million a year.
ReplyDeleteThis is copied and pasted from Manta:
Nunez Contracting Inc in Glendale, AZ is a private company categorized under Concrete Contractors. Our records show it was established in 1993 and incorporated in Arizona. Current estimates show this company has an annual revenue of $1 to 2.5 million and employs a staff of approximately 5 to 9. Companies like Nunez Contracting Inc usually offer: Advanced Concrete Construction, Concrete Contractor, Concrete Install, Concrete Work and Curing Concrete.
Also when you go to the link on Deb and Greg's site (there are three)- the one with the aerial photo of the house- it says the house is FOR SALE. Looks like they want to turn a profit for it? Or they want to get rid of the evidence.
ReplyDeleteMaybe Deb and Greg can change the title on the link to Rodger Davis' mansion in Arizona, because as the deed states, it is only Grant's when the two of them die, and from the Glendale church member's own testimony, Davis regularly goes to that house and stays there in Pheonix frequently. She said, "he has a winter home" in Arizona. He is definitely enjoying it and living in it from time to time and it is in HIS and Verna's name.
I was relaying this to someone last night, how selfish it is of Davis to fly like a bird to Arizona in the winter and require all those preachers to stay there and endure the cold. I hated the winters in Washington. So cold and miserable. I remember his secret departures. We all knew it was like secret intelligence and it was taboo to ask where he went. We could wind up getting him killed or thwart the program of God if too many people knew where he was, of course (so we thought). Who knows how many other mansions he has acquired over the years. I know that he came to Hawaii with the Kekels one year and showed up one time then we didn't even see them until they were getting ready to leave. Sis Kekel was talking to the people in the service like she was sad she had to go and hoped to return. They hadn't even been in a service that week. I was thinking, what are you talking about? These people probably don't even know who you are. You didn't spend any time with the church. We don't even know where you have been all week! Wish I could have just taken off for a week and not tell anybody where I was going when I was in the ministry! Oh wait, I didn't have any money to do that!
ReplyDeleteKekel went to Hawaii not too long ago to preach a so called revival. Now I see what it's all about. These revivals are a front. Whenever Kekel or Davis want to go on vacation they fly off to the most beautiful places while their wives spend all kinds of money on shopping sprees.
ReplyDeleteThen in the process they advocate the church offerings being used to cover some or all their expenses. Hawaii, here we come. Europe, here we come. It's clearer now than it's ever been.
Now I know why Mayers would always announce his own revivals that he would preach. One time Mayers was having financial troubles, specifically paying the church bills. First he preaching about the offerings because I guess that money went into the general fund to cover the church bills. Then he started taking up extra offerings per service. While he was doing that he openly announced (and I remember this specifically) that the church bills were not being covered which meant that he would have to take up a special offering so the money didn't have to come out of his pocket. What he was really saying is that he didn't want to use any of the tithe money to cover the church bills because the money for the church bills was supposed to come from the offering money and there wasn't enough money coming in from the offering to cover the rent. So what did he do? Announced two revivals that he would preach and because there would be church every day, there would be more offerings and he would bring in more money.
Then when the problem didn't get much better, Olson came to preach another revival and Olson announced at the begginning of service that the money that would normally go to him, (because he was a travailing minister and they were supposed to get the offering), would stay in the church because Mayers had told him the church had a need. So basically to make a long story short, Mayers used each and every revival, and I remember three that took place in a short period of time. Two that Mayers preached and one that Olson preached, all to raise extra money to pay for the church bills because Mayers didn't want to pay out of what was supposed to be his money and Mayers SAID IT HIMSELF. Good God, we got took to the cleaners. Actually there was a forth revival that took place because Olson came back after my wife and I left Mayers church. Mayers must have really been hurting for money then. Later on I was told that Mayers had to leave his full time status and go out and get a job.
So the revivals are nothing but another big scam. They are set up to raise extra money and give guys like Kekel and RWD a chance to go to Hawaii whenever they feel like going on vacation and they give their spoiled wives an opportunity to shop and spend more of our money.
As my wife and I discussed this last night, and thought about the things that Mayers would say prior to these revivals it all became clear. More services, more money, less money that would come out of quote "his pocket". Mayers even said it one night as he announced why he was taking up special offerings. He said it wasn't his job to pay the church bills out of his pocket so he would be taking up extra offerings. Now that I think about it there was enough money coming in from tithe to pay the church bills 4 times over.
Knowing this, you're an idiot if you give the NTCC extra money during revivals and for that matter you're an idiot if you give the NTCC any money at all. I'm sure your wife who shops at the bargain village would like to go on a shopping spree. Why in the world are you going to support yet another shopping spree for the millionaires, Mrs. Kekel and Davis.
The real funny part was L.D. Jones saying one time that he left Mayers church early and he wasn't planning on going back because Mayers didn't want to foot his bill. Wow. WHAT A CIRCUS. Holy Moley.
Jeff
"They are set up to raise extra money and give guys like Kekel and RWD a chance to go to Hawaii whenever they feel like going on vacation..."
ReplyDeleteAnd RW was deep undercover, telling everyone how that he's the "world's worst vacationer." Yeah, right. He came up to Fairbanks once, and asked what there was to see. I rattled off a few local sights, and then didn't give it any more though, seeing how I thought, based on his own statements, that he hated sightseeing. But the next day he started pestering me to go do some! My critical thinking skills at the time were paralyzed or I would have realized instantly what a phony he is.
I just realized that I have been away from NTCC for almost 7 years! Man time flies when you DONT go soul winning every winking minute!
ReplyDeleteBro Johnson
So here is the moral of the story. The revivals have nothing to do with the souls or spiritual revitalization. Listen and listen good.....
ReplyDeleteJones wasn't going to preach if his bills weren't taken care of and Mayers wasn't going to keep him there if the money wouldn't stay in his church. People, this is a categorical fact because these are the facts that I was told.
So it had nothing to do with the souls, it only had to do with who was going to get the money that was raised in offerings as a result of the revival.
If anyone thinks what I'm saying is false, please call me and see if you can detect one morsel of insincerity in my voice as I affirm what I've just written.
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Boy oh boy, I see more clearly every day and it get worse and worse by the minute.
Jeff
Vic,
ReplyDeletePastor Davis was the same way in Korea and the Philippines, always wanting to go see things. I have pictures of him walking around the Mall (SM - Shoe Mart) in PI, with all us Ministers in tow. He is quiet the shopper (and it wasn't because Verna dragged him there, she didn't come most trips). He wore me out.
Gregory
Typical dude. I like toys and so does RWD. I can't fault him for that. The difference is I get my toys with money I earned by working a real job.
ReplyDeleteI didn't get rich by investing others peoples money while the majority of them stayed broke. That is RWD's way, not mine. That is taking advantage of people. That is not Gods way either. Show me one place where that happened in the New Testament? Do you know why it's called the "New" Testament? Because under Grace, that's God new covenant and his new way of doing things from a spiritual standpoint. Old things are passed away, behold all things are become new.
So let me ask again? Show me one place in the New Testament where a few "Christian" men got filthy rich from investing and accumulating everyone elses money? I didn't think so. I also read the New Testament and it simply ain't there. That is not Gods system, that is a money hungry, greedy crook system. What makes RWD money hungry?
When you can sit back and get rich, while watching your son in law and daughter get rich, while simultaneously watching so many other people in your church remain broke while they give what little extra money they have to help you get even richer, YOU'RE GREEDY AND MONEY HUNGRY!!!
Jeff
Nothing wrong with getting rich, but when you do it at everyone elses expense which often results in their financial demise, you are greedy and money hungry. That might be considered normal for a loan shark or high interest loan officer but not cool for the leader of a so called Christian church.
ReplyDeleteJeff
I was talking to a brother who left today and he confirmed to me what I was wondering, namely if the Rev. Butler who left was the one who lived right next door to Rev. Olson. I guess it was exactly the same Rev. Butler. His departure is old news now but worth revisiting. The things you are talking about, Jeff, he must have been more privy to than all of us combined. I wish he would come on here and tell us what he knows. I wonder if he has been threatened in some way to keep his mouth shut. I know that when I spoke last with Kekel on the phone, he told me twice in one conversation, Deborah Shunk "better hope nobody goes digging around in her trash can." He must have been talking about himself coz shortly after he wrote his attempted slam on her character. I found nothing wrong with her in his entry, even though he tried portraying her as some bad wife, saying "Greg got the job." Real classy of him to say that about a Christian lady.
ReplyDeleteSo they like using blackmail, apparently.
Jeff, these last few comments of yours with everyone's responses need to be a topic or thread of their own!
ReplyDeleteKris, somebody shared that kekel made an announcement when Butler left to let them go/leave them alone. Does somebody else remember that? Anyway, when I learned of that, I thought WOW kekel is scared what Butler will do or reveal about ntcc!
ReplyDeleteKris wrote about kekel trying to defame Deborah Shunk, "he tried portraying her as some bad wife, saying "Greg got the job." Real classy of him to say that about a Christian lady."
ReplyDeleteIn St. Louis in 1978 r w davis was trying to defame Deborah Shunk's mother, also a Christian lady who is still in the ministry.
Seems the nut [kekel] doesn't fall far from the bitter-root tree [davis].
"even though he tried portraying her as some bad wife, saying "Greg got the job." Real classy of him to say that about a Christian lady."
ReplyDeleteKekel has enough to worry about with that so called "Wife" of his without worrying or talking about the wife of another Man.
In other words, "you that are spiritual let them go to hell."
ReplyDeleteMark G said "Kekel has enough to worry about with that so called "Wife" of his without worrying or talking about the wife of another Man."
ReplyDeleteHe sure does. I've watched and seen the way she moves around the brethren with her lascivious, flirtatious ways. She better be right, because God's keepin' record and He knows how she is.
"Kris, somebody shared that kekel made an announcement when Butler left to let them go/leave them alone."
ReplyDeleteThe story was that MCK responded to inquiries about the Butlers by advising that Darrin had decided to pursue a secular college education, as if it were no big deal at all and not contrary to decades of NTCC doctrine. Maybe they were softeneing people up for Grant's academic trajectory. However, some of us remember how Joe Rose was sent to hell for going to a community college after he graduated BS. So it's part of the kinder, gentler image to act like long term church staff members leaving is no big deal at all. But Mike claims nothing has changed. Huh. Don't think about that too hard, or your head may explode.
I remember when a B.S. student left the org, Kekel announced that he just went back to the military. I worked for the same company as him. He was still working there for a long time and not going to church. I don't know if he ever went back to the military.
ReplyDeleteMaybe this is his way of not causing any alarm. Like you said before, Vic- "Nothing to see here. Move along!"
I also remember Tieman's son falling down on stage at Graham and Kekel saying he mixed medicines or something... then I went over Rev. Tieman's house and he said that was not what happened. How can you work with people who apparently will just say anything?
Just clicked a link on Deb and Greg's blog to one of Kekel's regime propaganda blogs.
ReplyDeleteHere are some great quotes reflecting his gestapo personality:
Brother Kekel said:
"The story was told of the Customer Support representative who, when one caller complained, said “I tried to tell them, but they won’t listen to me”. He was not faithful to his team and his company, but was cowardly, disloyal, selfish, and sold out the team to save face with the caller; he broke the code. He chose to show sympathy to the caller, and separate himself from association with the company.
Many people are afraid to stand true to their team, and say things that dissociate them from their team to save face with critics. They express things they ‘disagree with’ and also ‘dislike’, and in doing so, they break the code of the Christian brotherhood. They leave their brother or sister for dead."
Kris said:
Ya, Paul was just like that customer service agent when he told Peter he should be ashamed of himself for not sitting with the Gentiles. According to Kekel he should have looked the other way and said it is the Gentiles' fault, not Peter's fault. Maybe the Gentiles did something wrong. Maybe they had all sinned. But don't stand up for the little people!
He is using an example of how inappropriate behavior at work applies to a church. It doesn't, unless your "church" is also a business for the owners to make money off it's customers (church members). I would rather be loyal to God then men. Jesus stood up for the little people and rebuked the pharisees right in front of everybody!
Then Kekel said:
"People tear themselves from the brotherhood of the body of Christ, to join another church saying it is part of the body of Christ also. Ephesians teaches us that there is one body, one faith."
This is classic NTCC exclusivity doctrine. NTCC is the last hope for mankind. The entire world is dying and going to hell minus maybe 100 or so little conservative pentecostal holiness churches scattered like a handful of dust across the globe.
Hahahah! Check this out! On the same blog, Kekel says we should go to our leaders if we have a problem with them:
ReplyDeleteFirst he says:
"They won’t walk up to Pastor and say “Sir, I just don’t agree with you” as a man would do, they get “third party ears” and say what they really want to say."
Then he says we should shut our mouth if we are criticizing them:
"...you should keep your mouth closed about what someone else does, especially if the person you’re talking to knows who you’re criticizing."
UNREAL! No wonder people are so confused in that organization! We didn't know whether to take our problems to them or "keep our mouth closed"!!!
He has the same attitude as his father-in-law! (i.e. My ministry is off-limits to your criticism. Don't criticize me.) But he says you should come to us and talk to us man to man, but if you do, I will tell you to shut your mouth! Huh?
ReplyDeleteThere goes Kris again boggin' up the blog! Come on Kris, If you really want to have a conversation with yourself, please just go to the mirror and start talkin', but please quit boggin' up the blog!!!
ReplyDeleteThanks!
If you don't like the comments by Kris, just don't read them.
ReplyDeletedont change your posting style kris.
ReplyDeleteit's just fine.
doug hardy
lol, i was remembering the day you saw me at the laundromat before u left.
"There goes Kris again boggin' up the blog! Come on Kris, If you really want to have a conversation with yourself, please just go to the mirror and start talkin', but please quit boggin' up the blog!!!"
ReplyDeleteI don't think Kris is talking to himself as much as trying to put something out there and think it through. With the real estate, look at the links that were left on some previous blog entry comments. There are 2 houses - 1 in NTCC's name and 1 in RWD/VMD's name with Grant as the beneficiary. One paid a premium price and the other it was paid at whole after an investor got it at a foreclosure auction.
Jeff said:
ReplyDelete"Later on I was told that Mayers had to leave his full time status and go out and get a job."
Don and Ange said:
If they could convince enough suckers to give enough money, they would become "full time" ministers. The criteria for becoming a full time minister was not having enough members, but soaking the few they had for as much as they were willing to give. There is no reason whatsoever that any minister with less than 50 to 100 faithful giving members should be a full time work.
The only reason this takes place is laziness on the part of the preacher and this is the expectation that is placed on them by their leaders. If you evenly distribute the Load in the back of a tractor trailer it will have a much better chance of making it to its destination in tact. If you put to much weight in one area there are many dangerous things that can happen. Worse case when you round a corner you can flip the whole rig and you, your freight and any innocent bystanders will not make it to their intended destinations.
This happens all the time in the ntcc. They find the biggest suckers with the fattest wallets that are willing to give way more than they should and they soak them for all they are worth so they can be a "full time" minister. But when that horse is broken and no longer has the energy or the spirit to go on, they shoot it in the head and then they have to find another sucker or try to make others compensate for the difference.
This is a really sick bunch. A sick church with sick leaders. The ntcc is pulling too much weight they are running out of suckers to replace the ones that are leaving. The ntcc is an accident waiting to happen.
D&A
D&A
Anonymous said:
ReplyDelete"There goes Kris again boggin' up the blog! Come on Kris, If you really want to have a conversation with yourself, please just go to the mirror and start talkin', but please quit boggin' up the blog!!!"
Don and Ange said:
Who cares what you have to say, Anonymous? What are your contributions to this blog. Have you invested anything? Why would you even care what Kris or anyone has to say? It's a free world and nobody around here lives under the cultish laws of the ntcc any longer. Its wonderful that people are not afraid to say what's on their minds without repercussion. So unless you have paid for the space on this blog, why don't you just skip over his comments and lighten up a little bit? Or at least tell us what it is that is bothering you specifically.
This is Jeff's blog and he has made it clear what this blog is all about. Get with the program. This is not a controlling group and it's always been a place where Xers are free to speak their minds. Hope you find peace.
D&A
"cast your bread upon the waters..."
ReplyDeleteYet another RWD twisted scripture taken out of context to get you to give in a sacrificial way. Some people take the literal meaning of this meaning taking grain to many ports and some will bring success or spreading seed upon shallow marshy areas of a river and it will take root and bring a harvest. That would almost sounds like how they plant rice. Solomon is talking about being generous and you will prosper even in times of disaster even if you do not understand it. This is why the Jews left part of their harvest for the poor to glean their fields. In the NT you have Galatians 6:9 and many scriptures that talk about taking care of and actions towards the poor, even if it doesn't match the bottomline.
However you want to take it, Ecclesiastes 11:1 doesn't mean give everything you have for your life and at the end of it you might get blessed by NTCC.
Don & Ange said..."This happens all the time in the ntcc. They find the biggest suckers with the fattest wallets that are willing to give way more than they should and they soak them for all they are worth so they can be a "full time" minister."
ReplyDeleteBasically their ministers are taught to say "All Christians pay tithe and give in an offering" (psychological manipulation - you're not a Christian unless...) and train the people through repetition, having Bible studies on tithes and offerings, and going directly to members if they have been there for any length of time.
If the member comes to them, they use the same logic as potential BS students "So, did the devil make you think about paying your tithe?". The also try to pinpoint those who have "the most going for them" and want someone who has a home, car and full time job. In the military, they would love to get their hands into a Staff NCO or an Officer (especially Field Grade) and in a civilian church, a small business owner, executive or someone that is relatively successful in the community.
Not only is this a source of pride for them, but also can be an avenue of being introduced to their peers and as tool to tell others that "we have so-and-so coming to our church so you should come too." They have more to offer(ing) the church and if they can't get it by coercion, they extort it by guilt and threats. That is why they should be reported to everyone from the BBB, your state's Attorney General, and your military base command.
"He was not faithful to his team and his company, but was cowardly, disloyal, selfish, and sold out the team to save face with the caller; he broke the code."
ReplyDeleteWell, I guess NTCC is more of a "company" or "team" (although teams are usually more cohesive) instead of a church. I've worked in customer support myself, and I know that all complaining customers aren't wrong, and that sometimes they have legitimate complaints that aren't being addressed. Mike things that the "team player" thing to do is keep the "code" by backing the unjust company and kick the customer to the curb. Right and wrong don't enter this equation, just loyalty to the "team." It's like a Mafioso who wreaks all manner of havoc and then expect others to cover for his misdeeds to stay "faithful to his team."
I could see davis and Nunez tossing down a few martinis at the country club.
ReplyDeletedavis: If you give me a receipt for 10 bucks for the purchase of my winter home so I don't have to pay gift tax, I will give you a receipt for a charitable contribution so you can have a huge tax write off.
Maybe it didn't go down quite this way but who knows? There is no accountability.
D&A
It looks like some people have Kris's back around here. That is a novel concept. I'm sure Kris didn't find that too often in the NTCC. Maybe never? Stick up for someone who RWD just jumped on and see where that gets you? Here is where that will get you: "If you don't like it there's the door"!
ReplyDeleteKris should be feeling a little bit of love around here right about now. I like it. People in the NTCC need to try that more often. The next time Kekel the Conniver or Double Standard Davis start bloviating from behind the pulpit blasting someone, people in the church need to stand up, reach down, get some b**ls and tell those creeps to knock it off. They need to act just like the people did who just stood up for Kris.
I know that most people in the NTCC have never tried this but it feels good to stick up for yourself every now and then. Don't let the NTCC steal your will.
Jeff
Another way of looking at "cast your bread upon the waters..." is we must absolutely trust God with our entire being. We must trust Him at His Word with our goods, properties, finances and all that we steward over. Jesus is the Bread of Life and we need to distribute Him to all. He is our Daily Bread. RWD would quote Matthew 26:11 and use it as a way to say that there will always be poor people, so move on to someone else. The thing is that Bible principles carry over from the OT to the NT. You read Deuteronomy 15:14 and Proverbs 11:25 and see the same in the NT in Jesus' ministry and in Galatians 2:10 and James 2.
ReplyDelete"RWD would quote Matthew 26:11 and use it as a way to say that there will always be poor people..."
ReplyDeleteAs long as there are exploiters like him on the face of the earth, there will be poor people.
And in the process, RWD is certainly going to add to the problem. RWD likes poor people. He's never been able to control rich people. They know they don't need him. He takes poor people and makes them broke people and in the process he exercises control over these people.
ReplyDeleteMost of the people RWD has problems with are the people who either don't want to stay poor or broke. Everyone can't get a piece of the pie in RDUB's organization. They may get a piece but it's a very small sliver. He breaks you off just enough to keep you dangling for about 20 or 30 years. Even the ones who wind up making some money sooner or later come to their senses and realize they should be entitled to a whole lot more.
Jeff
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteSince you all have mentioned Pastor Kekel's latest post on his Blog. Here was my immediate thought upon starting to read it:
ReplyDeleteBut, the coach and his staff are not team players, and have no team spirit.
His latest post reeks of desperation.
Gregory
I think it's hilarious that Mike has the chutzpah to quote Beverly Carradine on his blog. If he were alive today, Carradine would be dismantling NTCC point by point. He took his "holiness" seriously, unlike the chameleons in the org.
ReplyDeleteMost people don't leave NTCC quietly with no regrets and no issues. Most people leave NTCC because they are not pleased with the way it is or was. There are problems within NTCC, and while it does seem to be changing, slowly, that does not negate the fact that there are still a lot of problems within the leadership, the very things taught over the pulpit, and the things taught at the seminary. The Bible teaches that when we see an injustice, and do nothing to help or correct it, then we are no better than those who do the injustices. We owe it to our fellow man to let them know when something is terribly wrong with the church they attend. It isn't running off at the mouth, it's exposing the truth. The only people disgruntled with the truth are those that benefit from the lies.
ReplyDelete"I also remember Tieman's son falling down on stage at Graham and Kekel saying he mixed medicines or something... then I went over Rev. Tieman's house and he said that was not what happened. How can you work with people who apparently will just say anything?"
ReplyDeleteDavid was very sick during that incident, and it's not really fair to bring him up in this... he's a good man, just a bit misguided. He fought in the war and came home wounded... please don't dishonor him.
From Mike's new 12 (whatever happened to 3?) point message:
ReplyDelete"“There is a big difference between a former Marine and an ex-Marine,” one brother said. “A former marine has served his time faithfully in all aspects. He may have been a knuckle head and messed up from time to time, but he was still faithful and finished his course honorably. An ‘ex-marine’ is one who has QUIT. Both started, but only one finished."
Well, it seems he's trying draw a parallel here, between the ignominious "ex" marine and those of us who are "ex" NTCC. It's a spurious comparison, but whatever; let's focus on the elusive and never-sighted "former" org members. I've never heard of anyone leaving NTCC on good terms, and you haven't either, because it isn't possible to gently and amicably depart. No, Mike already tipped his hand long ago when he stated that he regarded everyone who has ever left as an "enemy."
The minute you take Rodger up on his invitation to use that door, you are an "exer." It doesn't matter what you did, how much you worked, gave, and sacrificed, or even how and why you chose to leave; now you are a despised "exer" and an ENEMY. This is a clear sign that something is amiss. Any church who practices a Hotel California policy with its members is telegraphing the fact that they are controlling and abusive.
A church isn't the Mob, and when one starts acting like it, maybe it's a sign that it really isn't a church.
"He fought in the war and came home wounded... please don't dishonor him."
ReplyDeleteNo one here has dishonored him, but it sounds like Mike did.
"C. J. Pauler | March 4, 2011 at 7:51 am | Reply
ReplyDeleteAmen again and again to that, Reverend. Often it seems we need to realize to stop bad thoughts, and corruption from entering our sub-consciouses in the first place; how much trouble it would defeat! “As a man thinketh so is he”- N. Hill: Good stuff, sir."
I found this comment on one of Mike's messages on Wordpress. It would be hilarious, if it wasn't so sad, that this person (who, based on the usage of initials, is probably a minister) is so enamored with NTCC-style secular positive thinking that he misattributes a bible quote to Napoleon Hill. In the first place, the book by that title was written by James Allen, not Napoleon Hill. But the main thing is that the title consists of a passage directly from Proverbs 23:7. Hey, who has time for Solomon and the bible when we can feast our minds on guys like Napoleon Hill or Zig Ziglar?
It tells you where peoples' minds and hearts are when they automatically associate a well known bible verse with something other than the bible. Maybe it's time to ditch the fluff and crack the Book.
"No one here has dishonored him, but it sounds like Mike did."
ReplyDeleteHe did have a medical condition and he was on a lot of different medications. It is possible that they combined and created issues for him.
Ok I have to stop right at the,Former Marines and Ex Marine crap! Both those terms are not even right at all. As a Marine I know this for a fact! Once a Marines ALWAYS a Marine. So no matter how you served,when you served you are a Marine forever! After saying that,this illustration makes no sense trying to use a Marine in the equation!
ReplyDeleteI am not a former Marine or a Ex Marine!
Semper Fi
April
I went on Mikey's blog and just wrote to him. Explained to him he is very flawed in the information he is trying to use. No SUCH THING as EX or Former Marine.
ReplyDeleteApril
i just wasted some bandwidth reading kekels stuff about teamwork.
ReplyDeletehe's twisting it to meet his needs of course to convey that those that want to be on the NTCC team won't speak with those who disagree, etc,etc.
That those who disagree aren't part of the christian team.
Where in the Bible can this be supported ? it can't. There were many disagreements by christians in the bible yet they reached agreements together.
on the more secular note: a team member doesn't blindly do what the team leader says. They can state their disagreements and other line of thought, but in the end, they follow and respect the team leaders decision. At least in the military....
Kekel you're just trying to keep people in the bondage of ntcc so you'll have income and won't have to go out and get a job.
if ya'll were smart, you invested alot of that money. if you spent it all, well, you better find new ways to get people in church.
all you need to do is hold a couple of christian concerts and you'll get alot of people.
oh.... that won't work because you'll have to put out some money for the band to be able to play...
unless you sell tickets and people buy up front.
i've been to a few free christian concerts that were wonderful.
1. Darlene Zschech
2. Hillsongs London
Maybe you should go to one without your critical spirit and see what God may do for you.
doug hardy
"There are problems within NTCC, and while it does seem to be changing, slowly, that does not negate the fact that there are still a lot of problems within the leadership..."
ReplyDeletethe apostles raised questions to Jesus about His ministry.no recollection of him getting mad and saying there's the door.
Doug hardy said...
ReplyDeleteif ya'll were smart, you invested a lot of that money.
Jeff said...
I am sure he did invest a LOT of that money. Kekel doesn't "need" the money that comes into the NTCC. He'd make out perfectly fine without it. He "wants" the money that comes into the NTCC. He and Tanya are two spoiled brats and with them, enough is never enough. The truth is, it's that way with most people. We always want more. That in itself is not really a problem morally unless it's at everyone elses expense. In the NTCC's case and in Kekel's case, it always comes at everyone elses expense. He gets richer and they stay poor and Kekel the Conniver had the nerve to say that NTCC ministers were broke because they bought too many toys.
Bro Bellamy heard him say it and Bro Bellamy quoted Kekel as having said it. Mike Kekel has more toys than almost every NTCC minister all put together and I'll guarantee it. This will certainly hold true as long as you take just a few out of the equation like maybe Kinson, Gezang and Johnson. There are just a few who have a good bit but all the rest all put together don't have as many toys as Kekel. The difference is Kekel has an endless pot of money flowing in and RWD set it up that way.
It ain't no mystery. If you ain't part of the family, you ain't jack and you don't have jack with very, very, very few exceptions. It's not because everyone is foolish with their money, it's just the way the NTCC is set up. If you don't believe it your are blind and stupid and ignorant.
Jeff
Wow! There are a lot of good comments! Yes, Jeff.... I agree. There are some really nice people on this blog, and I do feel the love, and appreciate it. Sometimes I don't feel right saying thanks for things. I guess it's because whenever a preacher said something nice about Pastor Davis or Rev. Kekel they would just sit their with a stoic look on their face, no humility or appreciation. It just seemed like they despised the person for saying something nice about them. I thought it was because they didn't want people to worship them so they didn't want to encourage praise to men. I think this is silly though because saying nice things about someone is a longshot from worshipping them, and we can say thank you for someone saying something nice without it meaning that we want to be worshipped. So, thank you guys for sticking up for me! :) And sorry to the one (I think I have a pretty good idea who it is) who said the not so nice things about me, if I have wronged you. I owe Rev. Briggs an apology for the way I treated him before, and if he is the one I can understand him still being bitter at me.
ReplyDeleteApril, you are right dead on the money. Once a Marine, always a Marine. I was a Marine, too. And although I don't think of myself as a Marine now, that is the motto. I never heard Marines speak on those terms ex-Marine, former Marine. That is not following the esprit de corps. I think I initially thought the same thing, but then got lost in his "12-point sermon." (not sure if that was the correct number, but it was LONG!).
ReplyDeleteAt the top of the blog page it says that these are just OUTLINES, and you will have to "flesh out" the rest on your own. THERE IS SUPPOSED TO BE MORE? Flesh is right. It is quite a fleshy message full of a lot of worldly metaphors and business analogies. Looks like one of the main reasons I left was a good one: Rev. Davis saying the church IS a business. This pretense leads to sermons like this one and sets the stage for minions to accept the worldly analogies to God's kingdom hook, line, AND SINKER!
Kekel is really promoting this sermon. He wants his minions to really take note of the points and read it "carefully." This is no simple Sunday sermon.
ReplyDeleteOn Kekel's other blog his promotion of this his propaganda message/ sermon is at the top of the page right now.
It reads...
Team Spirit
I have posted a new sermon outline on my "Sermons, Lessons and Other Stuff" blog. This sermon will also appear in the recent issue of our periodical 'The Trumpet'. Read it carefully, including the scriptures, as it explains many things. It's a compilation of messages I preached in Graham, WA, over 4 or 5 services. God bless you, enjoy!
M. C. Kekel
http://mckekel.wordpress.com/2011/07/02/team-spirit/
So this will be the new attitude in NTCC- don't take sides with the little man and his issues. Always follow the "code" of loyalty to the leaders whether it makes sense or not. Can you imagine if that was the opinion of Luther, Huss, Wycliffe? How about the Lollards? the Waldenses? or the Donatists who split from the Roman Catholics when Constantine was trying to make Rome act like the head honcho of all the churches, and didn't think that the Church should be accepting gifts from the government? We would all be Roman Catholics today, if they had read Kekel's Company loyalty sermon and read the loyalty book Davis assigned. One brother told me when he was still in and Davis assigned that book, he didn't read it. At least one person could see through the stupidity of it.
By the way, thanks for all the links, Greg! It is good after reading sound Biblically-based literature to go back and read something that they have written recently. Once you get your head out of the sand and wipe your eyes clean from all the dirt, you can see clearly and you won't want to go back. Keep seeking the truth if you have left. There is a true Christian faith, and it does include holiness and righteousness, but I don't want to work to build Davis' kingdom in Graham. I want to work to build GOD'S kingdom on earth.
ReplyDeleteOk, sorry, whoever you are. That's my last one for tonight.
Hahahah! Sorry, whoever you are... one more thing!!
ReplyDeleteRev. Kekel is quoting T.D. Jakes now! Looks like he can quote worldly preachers if they agree with his attitude of not caring if anyone leaves the church. He has a long quote from him on his other blog.
"He did have a medical condition and he was on a lot of different medications. It is possible that they combined and created issues for him."
ReplyDeleteSo, if that was so, it was Kekel's place to broadcast that to the entire congregation?
Why not just say, pray for him that he will be ok? Why was it anyone's business whether he had taken medications? You are the one now, Anonymous, spreading his "issues" online. I was only mentioning what I had seen as Kekel saying things that Rev. Tieman categorically dismissed as false, and I think Rev. Tieman would know about his own son more than Kekel. Until you mentioned what you said, I didn't even know his son had any medical issues.
You obviously care more about defending Kekel's theory than about keeping David's private life private.
ReplyDeleteSorry, again, whoever you are.
Kris, come on now. You posted 7 comments in a row. I know you have good things to say but 7 comments in a row? Do one or two and then let someone respond. I know this is an open blog but when one person posts 7 comments in a row, people get really disinterested and the blog looses it's effectiveness.
ReplyDeleteI'm not bagging on Kris here. Jeff, if you want the blog to be most effective the same person shouldn't post so many comments in a row. That goes for you too Jeff. Sometimes you get a little long winded. Please don't take this wrong but I'm just trying to help.
Really Anonymous? Your promoting rules for others to post on this Blog? Just based on your name, you have posted more than anyone on this article. 29 times by my count.
ReplyDeleteIt's Jeff's Blog, and Jeff lets us do whatever we want in his sandbox. I skim posts I don't want to read. You could start your own Blog.
Gregory
Hey Greg, you are absolutely right and I clearly understand your point and agree. This is an open Blog.
ReplyDeleteNow the disclaimer. Having said that, and to be a fair broker, I do occasionally get quote, "long winded" and 7 back to back remarks can create "some" disinterest. I often miss the "old" FACTnet setup. Every time you posted a message, that topic went directly to the top which in my opinion, evoked more participation.
Once again I do understand your point and concur, but to be fair, my statements can get long with some serious run on sentences and occassionally Kris seems to have the same propensity. See I just did it right there. Look how long that sentence was and that was totally unintentional.
Jeff
Kris, you have a lot of good things to say.... maybe you should start your own blog... just a thought.
ReplyDeleteNot trying to be rude about that at all. I really do think you have a lot of insight and relevant things to say. But, your posts are cumbersome. Honestly I usually just skim through them unless something catches my eye or someone refers back to what you said.
FYI this isn't the same anon that has been complaining about your posts.
Vic said..."I think it's hilarious that Mike has the chutzpah to quote Beverly Carradine on his blog. If he were alive today, Carradine would be dismantling NTCC point by point. He took his "holiness" seriously, unlike the chameleons in the org."
ReplyDeleteInteresting fact, Beverly Carradine was the grandfather of Kung-Fu /Kill Bill actor David Carradine. I think Beverly Carradine would give Kekel and RWD a "boot to the head" for the NTCC version of holiness.
good that you pointed out kris made 7 posts in a row. God likes the number 7.
ReplyDelete;)
anyways, in this day of age of internet reading laziness, people have trouble reading long written posts and articles. they want "sound bites".
As michael savage would say:
I don't care what you think !
Kris' posts are fine. it says his name at the beginning, you can skim his posts or read them, your choice. It's still a free country.
Perhaps you should start a blog and limit the post counts to 20 characters.
doug hardy
Thanks Kris and thankyou for your time in the Marines. I went many years while in ntcc pretending I wasn't a Marine. Since it did not fit there weak female image I had to PRETEND to portray. Being out,the Marine in me comes out a little at a time! It is a Huge part of me. Which I am glad I can embrace once again.
ReplyDeleteWhen I see that junk that Mike put up as his main argument for his so called sermon. I could not read anymore. He started it out all wrong! I told Mike that he did not do his research very well. He could have asked Rev. Mederano or John Cardenus who is right there in Washington. There Both Marines. There reading this crap that he wrote. But will be to afraid to correct the man of GAWD! So I did it for them!
April
Once a Marine Always a Marine!
"Kris' posts are fine. it says his name at the beginning, you can skim his posts or read them, your choice. It's still a free country."
ReplyDeleteI like Kris' posts. It's not his fault that NTCC's misdeeds are so voluminous that the world couldn't contain all the books should they be written down. And I believe Kris already has his own blog, which is dedicated to a different purpose than this one.
We live in an age of diminished attention spans and lack of appetite for real substance. Maybe some people should check out War and Peace or Les Miserables from the library and brush up on their reading skills (and learn what long-winded really means).
This is for all the fruit inspectors in the NTCC...When is the last time you or your leaders loved their neighbor? I think it's more important to love (love is an action) than to run around condemning your neighbor because they don't believe like you. Here is an awesome way to show the gospel, love thy neighbor.
ReplyDeleteI'm not condeming I'm just clarifying what the gospel is and is not.
I be guilty of dat too. I agree with Vic in that once you get going there is so much to say about the wrong doings of the ntcc that you could write volumes. You could literally write a book about any topic that's covered in this blog, with real life testimonies, witnesses, illustrations, pictures and you'd need a lexicon at the end so people could understand the terminology used. There, hows dat fo a smawl post?
ReplyDeleteD&A
That's what I'm talking about Bru.
ReplyDeleteSeriously though, I do understand the points being made from both sides of this topic and please believe me. I'm not just being a politician on this one. There is a lot to write about, and when certain topics come up I never feel like I've said enough and I really mean that. The problem is people including myself quite often don't have a very good attention span. The risk people run into and I'm afraid I do this myself, is to write so much that people just stop reading what was written.
Then when you make a great point that should be read, people just go right over it to the next comment. People generally ignore the guy that talks all the time but they pay attention to the dude who only has something to say every now and then. Vic hadn't posted for a while but when his comments did come up I was like Wow, let me see what Vic has to say. Same with Greg and Deb Shunk and MDR and Double D. Someone who doesn't post all the time gets a lot of attention when they do. Same with Dawn. Dawn's comments always spark my interest because she just doesn't post that often.
Now obviously I like to see people post and certainly that includes people who post a lot like me, Kris and Don and Ange. Bro Johnson goes through periods where he posts a lot as well. So anyway, I do see both sides on this one but by no means am I suggesting that people not write if they want to and all they want to. I'm just saying, I truly can understand both sides of this issue.
Jeff
NTCC sucks. THE END. Short enough?
ReplyDeleteHa, ha, ha. That was good. NO! That was too short. The NTCC really sucks. Big time. RDUB is a crook. Kekel is a conniver. Olson is an enabler. There, that's my short version.
ReplyDeleteJeff
What even qualifies Kekel to talk about the Marines? He hears something second hand from some impressionable suckered Jarhead and wants to put together a "12 point message" ,as Kris puts it, and create this dogmatic series of messages about Teamwork. Teamwork is not ever being able to voice your opinion or having a disagreement with how something is done. He needs to read a book that RWD touted that a brother recommended to him while in conference called "The 17 Indisputable Laws of Teamwork" by John Maxwell. How can a narciccist discuss teamwork? Also what was his military service like? Oh, he went down to Panama and spent time in the jungle? Hardly, it was probably more like getting liberty to hang out with the senioritas and help with his "foreign relations".
ReplyDeleteJeff, speaking of good names to give the folks in NTCC (ex. Double Standard Davis), check out this website -
ReplyDeletehttp://gangstaname.com/names/mafia
This is the names it came up with:
Michael Kekel - Double Barrell Nicky
Roger Davis - Butt Ugly Donato
Joseph Olson - Bruno Moonshine
Also check out:
http://www.namepistol.com/mafia-name-generator.html
Ha, ha, ha. That was good. Some humor is good every now and then. I still like "Old Double Standard Davis". "Kekel the Conniver" or "Kekel the Con Man". "Davis the Deceiver". Here is a new one and applicable, "Olson the Ostracizer". "Don't rock the Boat L.D. Jones". Here's one, "Ash(More)the Magician". "Tanya the Terrible". Ha, ha. I had to laugh at that one to myself. "Roughshod Ramirez". "Madrano the Meanie". "Old Shady Snyder". HA!! "Wright the Relationship Wrecker".
ReplyDeleteHey this guy is a pretty good dude who I've known for a quite a few years and he's never been married. I'm guessing he hasn't had a woman for at least 15 years. "Old Blue Balls Brother Bentley".
LOL.
Jeff
Jeff said..."Hey this guy is a pretty good dude who I've known for a quite a few years and he's never been married. I'm guessing he hasn't had a woman for at least 15 years. "Old Blue Balls Brother Bentley"."
ReplyDeleteForget the NTCC whiners like "Jeter the Pumpkin Eater". I think you need to do a contest for names of everyone on the General Board and some of the more prominent ministers and their wives. For example - "Buffet Buster Gandy" - "Rotten Redhead Ripka" - "Ignorant Imp Infausto" - "Mac and Cheese McDonald" and so on...
Kris.. it's not me.
ReplyDeleteOk, sorry. And sorry for all the disrespect towards you.
ReplyDeleteAnd sorry for the long comments. I am in a different time zone. By the time I usually start posting I think you all are in bed. I do end up having a lengthy conversation I guess with myself, but it is meant for you to read the next day when you wake up. But I will not be so selfish and respect others who may not think my comments are as interesting as I fancy them to be.
ReplyDeleteNo problem.. no harm done! It makes me a better man in the long run!
ReplyDeleteKris, please do not censor your posts! We enjoy reading them. Those who do not are free to skip them. It is still a free country, right?
ReplyDeleteWe were really intrigued by your true account of the conference where you fasted, proclaimed God's Word, and got restrained by that sheriff who was out of his jurisdiction... We'd like to see that account again.
Jeff, to be honest with you, I used to skip alot of your posts when you were commenting on Tracy's blog. It was simply a matter of not enough time at the library to get everything done. Now, however, I read as much as possible. =D
ReplyDeleteAnge
I think Gregory already covered this, but I also wanted to chime in on anonymous' demand to Kris to stop posting so much:
ReplyDeleteWHO ASKED YOU?
Get your own blog and make the rules. But not here! We're sick of man-made rules designed to control everyone for selfish agendas! Anon, you must be high, or seriously "Confused and Misguided"!!!
Jeff, thanks for an open blog!
Ange
I was fasting for 3 days and Malsingh told me he didn't think I should have done that. I went to Conference and prayed for God to use me. I had a g.f. who had been told by McDonald she should quit her job for holiness reasons coz they were selling dirty magazines in her store. Rodrigues did the same thing when she had trouble with her boss' family. He just told her to quit, then gave her a job pulling weeds for like 5 dollars a day. You can survive on that in the Philippines if you just want to eat mostly rice. Contrary to popular belief, you can't "live like a king" with a hundred bucks in the Philippines. From talking to her it sounded like many women there under Mickey D's worked as maids for just a few dollars a day.
ReplyDeleteSo I sent her money to go to the dr., money to go to the dentist, money to buy shoes, dresses, etc.
Once in a while the church fronted a meal for them after the evening service.
Then at the conference Mickey D's preached about a girl that he asked if she was going to eat dinner and go to church. She said she had only enough for one meal and she was going to use it to pick people up for church. That tells me she had probably the equivalent of a dollar or 2 for jeepney fare for a few people. He said that it wasn't the first time she did that and they had almost lost her once.
I mentioned the part about my gf so you would see that this was not an isolated case. Sorry, it's lengthy, but if you are analytically minded, maybe you will pick up on the reasons for the details. If I get any more flack I think I'll just go write a book, and say forget about it.
I didn't interrupt McDonald, but at the end when Davis started the altar call, I prayed in my seat kneeling down and turned around. I was in the far back of the church. There were like maybe 3 rows in front of me of hardly any people and many rows behind me with barely anyone. There was like a large circle of room around me with no one there as I recall. But Brother Ryan Burt was right next to me. I prayed for the Holy Ghost to MAKE me do something if He wanted me to interrupt the service. Just then, I punched the back of the chair. I stood up and picked up the chair and slammed it, it clanged loud, and the music was distorted and Tanya couldn't really sing. I said, "SHOULD NOT THE RICH FEED THE POOR! SHOULD NOT THOSE WHO LIVE IN MANSIONS TAKE CARE OF THE POOR FILIPINA WORKERS? FEED YOUR CHILDREN! and I left and the black man chased me down to the dorm. I tried packing my bag to leave since I didn't want to talk to Davis. I had rebuked him, and didn't want him to try to "help me." I think he needed help, and he needed to think about what just happened. But he put his hands on me and pushed me against the wall and said he was a police officer. I'll just stop there.
G'nite!
RB said...
ReplyDeleteNo problem.. no harm done! It makes me a better man in the long run!
Jeff said...
Hey RB. I hope you and your family are doing fine. Best wishes.
Jeff
Kris, isn't it always funny all of these different people come out of the woodwork (no offense RB) to "defend the man of GAWD". You were taught in the Servicemen's Home that if someone acted up during Q/A time to send them home and if someone charged the pulpit all the brothers in the church were to "take him down". You and the other brothers in the Servicemen's Home relished in the idea and you were groomed to come to their defense. Then you go into BS and stand in awe of their General Board and RWD. You defended them to your friends, family, co-workers and the random person during your door knocking. They talk about loyalty, but how are they loyal to their followers when they can't even be transparent in their finances? How are they loyal to those in NTCC when they cut a person down in front of their family in an attempt to blur family ties and divide family loyalties between a husband and wife? They want an automoton that is blindly loyal and dispenses cash. Sounds like an ATM to me.
ReplyDeleteKris, they wanted you to protect them, but really you needed to be protected from them.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteSounds like an ATM to me.
Jeff said...
Amen to everything you just wrote. I never quite thought about it like that. You'll defend those guys in a minute but all you'll get is the door. Yep that's what we were. A bunch of ATMs.
Jeff
Kris,
ReplyDeletePlease keep writing what's on your heart and don't allow anyone to discourage you. People need to know what you know. The reason someone is trying to get you to be silent is because your comments are having an impact. If you feel led to post twenty comments in a row do it. Don't worry about what a person that is too insecure to reveal their identity thinks about you. We got your back.
D&A
Don & Kris, keep doing what you're doing. To quote J-HO, "We are winning..." As Don said, someone is trying to either keep you quiet or quench the Spirit from opening eyes to the deeds of this group. For anyone that ever knew Kris, he was one of the most humble guys that you would ever meet in NTCC. He probably would be cutting MCK's lawn and washing his car if he didn't feel the need to go out to a church in NTCC and try to reach people with the gospel. RWD and MCK can huff, puff and growl behind the pulpit, but when the humble are pushed into a corner by the corruption and misdeeds of men, a tiger is unleashed.
ReplyDeleteKristofer Moore wrote, "I said, "SHOULD NOT THE RICH FEED THE POOR! SHOULD NOT THOSE WHO LIVE IN MANSIONS TAKE CARE OF THE POOR FILIPINA WORKERS? FEED YOUR CHILDREN!"
ReplyDeleteCharity, in its truest sense, does not exist in NTCC. It would seem their missionaries and ministers are not always treated in a Christlike manner, let alone nationals in missionary works.
How can you expect people in a third-world country to want your Jesus when you don't even make an attempt to meet their physical needs? And to add that these faithful girls who needed basics of life to survive who KM spoken of, were already showing their faithfulness, and they couldn't get help from the missionary? It's unbelievable any church would be set up like that.
LD
Kris said...
ReplyDeleteBut he put his hands on me and pushed me against the wall and said he was a police officer.
Jeff said...
He had no business doing that. That is a bunch of garbage. He probably had no jurisdiction anyway. He's lucky me and Pat my Ranger buddy weren't there with you. A good team beat down is necessary occasionally. Being that he felt justified with putting his hands on you and putting you against the wall I would have felt "VERY" justified with putting his head through the wall while Pat held his legs.
Big dudes can get taken down also. Every time I read that story I get infuriated. That dude should have just let you leave the building and go about your business. The NTCC is like a gang of thugs. They can get hostile while saying all kinds of stuff from the pulpit but as soon as you fire back, they want to "JUMP" on you, literally!!!
A good brawl and a law suit would take care of all that mess. The NTCC attorneys would say, "He should have never yelled out in a church and slammed a chair, and the church members attorney would say, "Ok great, but a bunch of "EX MILITARY PERSONNEL" shouldn't have all jumped on him while throwing him out on his head"!
I'm telling you. Say one thing to an NTCC preacher and suddenly salvation goes out the window, and a bunch of angry mob thug NTCC folks want to jump all over someone. It's a sick organization.
Jeff
Teresa Jeter said "I admire people who leave NTCC"
ReplyDeleteSo do I.
I think secretly Teresa Jeter wishes that she could leave NTCC, but has an unreal expectation that people will not reflect on how they were treated and warn others. She has been trained by the leadership, her former pastors and BS teachers, and her husband to just "keep quiet" and to take her place like a good little wallflower. She seems so urgent about warning others about the Reeds saying something against the leadership that will never acknowledge anything that you have done for God and if she and her husband were to leave would not bat an eye. Teresa needs to wake up and smell the Maxwell House...
ReplyDeleteTeresa said..."There is no excuse for that and it effects innocent people like L.C. who does not know our leaders to know any better."
ReplyDeleteHas anyone confirmed who this L.C. character might be? These are Barnes first initials, but he has been around the leadership of NTCC long enough to "know any better". He has been touted as this example of having so much experience that he didn't need to go to the BS, while there have been others that have warned about his emulating RWD. If he has awakened from the spiritual slumber, then this is a indictment against the leadership of NTCC.
Anon: "Has anyone confirmed who this L.C. character might be? These are Barnes first initials, but he has been around the leadership of NTCC long enough to "know any better"."
ReplyDeleteNot Barnes then, but my question would be: what is TJ's connection to LC that got her so fired up? Hmm?
Jeff, there is a new comment on your Happy Memorial Day thread.
ReplyDeleteTheresa Jeter said "There is no excuse for that and it effects innocent people like L.C. who does not know our leaders to know any better."
ReplyDeleteDnA say,
Sadly, it is Theresa who does not know her leaders. She may think she knows them; but truly she only knows what they want her to know. Ask Theresa if she would allow a 23-24 year old man to 'date', kiss, and grope Tara when Tara was only 14-15 years old! I doubt it. Ask her why davis allowed kekel to do so to his adopted daughter tanya at those ages. Does character matter? Do the laws of the land matter? Would such behavior be condoned outside of ntcc?
davis has set himself up as an idol. Will you continue to bow to a man? OR will you be like Mordecai and STAND FOR JESUS!
Ange (Barden)
Don, good eye for the comment in the thread from last month. It's sad that she came from another country and her husband is acting that way towards her. It would be interesting to find out how her and her husband met and if it was through the military or after her coming to the US. It's doubly sad how the NTCC treats people from other countries and does more to burden those who do not have the means to support themselves or are trying to attain this materialistic and Americanized version of Christianity. As Bro Johnson how much they like Korean women. They talk about the churches in the Philippines and will not help them and every other overseas work is to proselyte the servicemen in those countries. If they can get them to marry a native of those countries, then they get an inroad to those families and have more of a grip into those communities.
ReplyDeleteAnon said, "If they can get them to marry a native of those countries,"
ReplyDeleteMy opinion is that the ntcc sees the native women as targets of opportunity as future brides. In the ntcc "women are less equal than men" mentality, women are expected to be flowers: Look pretty and smell nice. They are to have no more authority than that. ntcc perhaps views women from third world countries as more likely to "OBEY" the men than women from America or even Europe. Also, with poverty prevalent in places like the Philippines and Korea, these women are less likely to rock the boat when expected to "make it happen" on $40 dollars a week groceries and a stack of coupons. They are also isolated from family and support networks so more likely to abide in the ntcc subservient role for women. Doesn't it strike you as being odd that a woman in ntcc pays the same tuition, does the same work, meets the same demands as the man in bible school, yet when she graduates she is expected to be only a preacher's or worker's wife? She is not issued a minister's license as are her male classmates. ??? Why have her pay and do the work but refuse to recognize and reward it?
Ange
That was a good find. I hadn't even noticed it. That is so sad. The NTCC is such a messed up cult. I really feel sorry for this lady. Well by now the NTCC has figured out who this lady is and they've warned the husband. You can be just about certain he's admonished her to say off of this blog. It's so sad.
ReplyDeleteThis lady loves her husband and chances are all she is to him is a piece of property. The NTCC is sick and such a menace to society on a world wide level. This lady is absolutely right with her assessment of the NTCC. She hit the nail on the head.
Jeff
Teresa Jeter said "I admire people who leave NTCC"
ReplyDeleteT. Jeter, yes, I admire myself too.
THANKS!
Bro Johnson
Thanks Jeff all is well with me and the family. Thanks for asking
ReplyDeleteKris, thanks for putting this story about conference back on the blogs. It is very telling how the ntcc bullies people, even ministers. The ntcc is not afraid of breaking laws. They are a law unto themselves. If the man was black who restrained you with force without a cause, he was way out of his jurisdiction and without the law. That part of Missouri is thick with KKK-so no black peace officers in that neck of the woods. And Jeff covered the illegal use of force in previous discussions. It is amazing that people in ntcc don't see this for what it is and how wrong it is.
ReplyDeleteHello ALL!! I've been gone for a while trying to build by blog, repair my family and finish school.
ReplyDeleteI spoke to (Rev.) Bellamy (not sure what to call him now) on FB the other day and he mentioned he had left NTCC.
Well, it shocked the hell outta me and made be think of Jeff and Bro. Johnson (Hi, Bro J., tell wife and kids "hi" for me).
Anyway, I read his comment about the anger. The anger at time lost/wasted/abused/gone.
And I'm so glad its finally abating. I still have some regret, but the hardcore anger has left.
I am so glad people are still leaving, even if it's one by one. The important thing is that they're leaving. I recently spoke with someone still inside, and she feels quite alone.
Whenever I think about her my heart aches, because you don't fully realize the damage done until you leave. I know I may not be pissed any longer, but I am still hurt.
And am dealing with so many trust issue because of my time in NTCC.
So, I say all that to say, Thank you. Thank you Jeff for starting this blog and being willing to take time out to talk with those of us stilling reeling from the NTCC experience.
Thank you for creating a safe place to vent. For establishing a community that we missed when we left. A health, honest family.
The value of this place is immeasurable. And the house of cards that is NTCC will fall. Because in the end, what is done in the dark will come to light.
(and Rev. Bellamy, you inspired my post on my blog today. Thank you for telling me you left. :o)
Anon: "Has anyone confirmed who this L.C. character might be? These are Barnes first initials, but he has been around the leadership of NTCC long enough to "know any better"."
ReplyDeleteNot Barnes then, but my question would be: what is TJ's connection to LC that got her so fired up? Hmm?
Well....
The Helpers in Austin with the Jeters ..... Courage Maybe The C in LC stands for Courage?
for those of you who take the time (hopefully) to download and save old internet data such as ntccexposed and such.....
ReplyDeletei was reading dons blog and saw the post about tanya kekel and the furniture. i clicked on the link and the message boards were closed.
a cache version is still available to save to your computer so it can be posted online where no one can remove it.
here's the link
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:S8uQs3cVmVwJ:www.furninfo.com/forum/message_view.asp%3FTID%3D24516+furniture+world+magazine+forum+360-893&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com
doug hardy
let me know if there is any other info one may be looking for
possible new post:
ReplyDeletedoes anyone know anything about the following ?
Kekel Enterprises ????
scroll down to the k's and you'll see it
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:naBfNGHnjvkJ:www.pagelink.com/list/US/WA/Graham/realtor+360-893-5355&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com
i am assuming it's his real estate arm of whatever he's got going on. it has the po box 629 and the 360-893-5355 phone number.
this is getting interesting.
kekel, the innocent preacher...... now it's starting to come out....
for those of you who save info to your hard drives here is the tanya kekel furniture world forum cached link.
ReplyDeletethe direct link says the forum is closed. so you'd need to download the cache or print it out or something.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:S8uQs3cVmVwJ:www.furninfo.com/forum/message_view.asp%3FTID%3D24516+furniture+world+magazine+forum+360-893&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com
KEKEL ENTERPRISES!!!!!?????????
ReplyDeleteWHAT????????????????????????????
I finally got around to checking into Jeff's blog tonite. Wow! Lot of stuff going on. This place is HOPPIN'!
ReplyDeleteKekel Enterprises? I wonder if Jeff is considering a new thread right about now? I don't know, just seems like front page news to me.
Thanks a bunch to you Don and Ange, and also Doug, and Vic, and others. This blog as Lequeshia said is great for good moral support. Thanks to you also, Jeff, for keeping it going. We all do our part to help each other see clearly now we have our heads out of the sand. I am just trying to do my small part.
Guess I'll check out Kekel's "enterprise." This should be good.
LD said...
ReplyDelete"It would seem their missionaries and ministers are not always treated in a Christlike manner, let alone nationals in missionary works.
How can you expect people in a third-world country to want your Jesus when you don't even make an attempt to meet their physical needs?"
Exactly, LD. That's what upsets me the most. We struggled in NTCC. If we were included in Davis', Kekel's and Gesang's enterprises, maybe we would all be doing a little better for ourselves and could have had a little extra to chip in and buy some of those poor girls a new pair of shoes or a nice dress, or gee, Ronald McDonald, maybe a sandwich for a girl who has only enough money for ONE MEAL UNDER YOUR WATCH, WHILE YOUR SO BIG YOU LIMP WHEN YOU WALK! Remind me of Eli, the FAT priest. If I ever set foot in a church and they have a FAT pastor as big as "Eli" McDonald I'm leaving!
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteSorry if you are pleasantly plump. Fat people are beautiful. I have often wished I could gain more weight because I know I don't want my wife to be as skinny as me. Fat people can be beautiful people. I am just talking about a leader who is supposed to be a spiritual leader and his congregation looks like they fast every day (out of obligation) and he looks like a house. That's all.
ReplyDeleteFor those of u who don't think Tanya Kekel is an EXTREME shopper, check this out. Looks like she was going bonkers over some collectible furniture item on a website that is no longer available to view, but this comes up in the google search result for her phone number:
ReplyDeleteDrexel Heritage Heirloom Collection - Furniture World Magazine
www.furninfo.com/forum/message_view.asp?TID=24516 - Cached
I am extremely interested in your secretary, my phone# 360-893=5355 or my email, tanyakekel@hotmail.com. Thanks, Tanya. Reply from elle ...
if anyone wants the link for that post about tanya kekels furniture purchase. email me at realc4ever@gmail.com
ReplyDeleteor jeff, can i post it here ?
http://furniturebrands.typepad.com/drexel_heritage/2010/10/isnt-it-romantic.html
ReplyDeletea more recent shopping spree
so you go here
ReplyDeletehttp://hartweb.co.pierce.wa.us/search.asp?cabinet=opr
and type in kekel, lots of stuff pops up.
I'll have to check that out, Anonymous. Hey does anybody know what is going on with Gesang's business? I had just assumed that he was really building for NTCC, but under the name of Gesang Enterprises.
ReplyDeleteNow he has this cute little website and it's like he's advertising his business to everyone who wants to build a home. So he got trained how to build stuff not to build churches but to just make his own money? So I paid tithes to Graham all these years to pay his wages and the building crew so he could just take all that training and start his own contractor business?
Or maybe it's just a front. They want to appear to be advertising to everyone, when they are just working together (Gesang and Davis) to build more and more houses to turn a profit by renting them to Grahamites and they don't want it to be connected to the non-profit org. After all, Gesang owes Davis for his training, and he probably doesn't mind splitting the profits with Davis for the steady work.
Here's the link:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.gesanginc.com/
That looks like some luxurious and expensive furniture Anonymous! Maybe Tanya likes the idea of laying in it all day and eating breakfast and dinner in bed, too.
ReplyDeleteLooks like New Testament Church of God granted a large lot to Tanya and Verna back in the 80's.
ReplyDeleteThis large lot was granted to all four in 1984.
ReplyDeleteI just copied and pasted the title info:
Grantors
NEW TESTAMENT CHURCH OF GOD
Grantees
DAVIS RODGER W VERNA M
KEKEL MICHAEL C TANYA
I'm really sorry for taking up so much space.
Good info Kris. Would you provide a link to the 1984 land grant so I can put the document on Deb's Blog?
ReplyDeleteNow I wonder if Sis. Gesang runs the lizard business?
Also, I finally got around to responding to you over there.
Gregory
Tanya is a shopoholic. It's clear that all she thinks about all day is shopping. Actually I have no problem with that in itself if weren't for the fact that she is spending a bunch of money donated by poor struggling church members and ministers.
ReplyDeleteYou NTCC folks are really being used. You give your last dime so that Tanya shop for the most useless elaborate furniture on the planet. How blind can you NTCC people be? Please people look at this for what it is. The Kekels are swindlers. What they are doing has nothing to do with Christianity and why can't you see that? While you are being guilt tripped into thinking about nothing but souls all day, Tanya is thinkning about nothing but a Drexel Secretary useless piece of furniture.
Tanya Kekel may be the most spoiled women I've ever heard of in my life. Her mentality is as close to that of Jezebel as any woman I've ever known. She has power, she's spoiled, she thinks she is entitled to everything, you can't tell her anything, she has had everything handed to her on a platter, she has people waiting on her hand and foot and she is kin to the King. Can you spell Jezebel? If anyone thinks I'm kidding or being sarcastic or exaggerating you better think again. I'm being completely serious.
Think about it. She is the epitome of a spoiled rotten child. She's never had to work for anything, even at a young age she's had everything handed to her on a platter, she has been treated like a queen and she is in charge of everyone to include men. She is the only woman in the NTCC who is in charge of men. Now I don't have a problem with a women being in charge of men but in the NTCC that is unheard of. In the military it's common. Jezebel all the way.
Jeff
these are some slick willie dudes i'll tell ya.
ReplyDeletein the pierce county link above for public records , i typed in new testament christian churches
I saw one document called a memo of agreement.
It had gesangs name on it as the addressee, olson signed off on it.
Difrancesco signed off as the notary public.
Davis just uses everyone if he can get it for free. Even if something was done underhanded, he can just get Difran to sign off on it notarized.
Crazy....
Instead, you NTCCers are all cogs in the NTCC Real Estate Business.
When will you wake up and face the truth ?
the reason why gesang has a business is so davis could get building done on the cheap.
ReplyDeleteThen, when you get sincere brothers who want to do something for God, you get free manual labor.
What could be better than free labor ?
Slaves in the NTCC and we didn't even know it.
another 200,000 dollar (with interest) that NTCC received ?
ReplyDeletei don't understand all the terms and legalese but it did say that there was a payment for 200,000 (with interest).
10011 patterson street, tacoma, is the address for the transaction
About Gesang Incorporated
ReplyDelete"...a home is a deeply personal expression of the homeowner."
Gesang Incorporated's mission is to help homeowners like yourself realize their dreams. I understand that a home is a deeply personal expression of the homeowner. Now that you're ready to make some changes to your home I'd like to put my 29 years building experience to work for you.
"...we offer a personal approach."
Consider Gesang Incorporated the reliable, affordable solution to your building and remodeling needs. We offer a personal approach by taking the time to walk with you through every step of the process, molding your ideas into floorplans, blueprints, and the completed construction.
When necessary, we can coordinate with city and county building authorities, and also liaison with your real estate and/or mortgage brokers. This helps to ensure the entire process runs smoothly and relieves you of the burden of coordinating with multiple contractors and agencies.
My company's team of highly skilled full-time employees has many years of experience in the building trades.
Watch your dream become reality by allowing Gesang Incorporated to work for you.
Elliot Gesang, CEO
General Contractor
ok, well, tons of info there at the OPR (offical public records) of ntcc.
ReplyDeleteI saw they bought some land in lakewood from some asian people.
paid them 235,750 .
they can do that, but they can't spend 1.00 to buy a missionary a sandwich.
that shows you where NTCCs heart is.
I even saw Johnsons name in the mix there. He often seemed the quiet one.
We need to get bruce smith to write up some more articles for the newspaper.
So, I guess with the different people involved, to outsiders it all looks like normal business when in reality davis is playing the ol' shuffle game with the paperwork.
oops....sorry, i meant shell game
ReplyDeletehere's how davis does it
http://youtu.be/NeGRbfN-_08
so, putting in davis,rodger w in the OPR you see the whole start of the biz in 1984.
ReplyDeletei see blumenthal on there. does anyone know what happened to him ?
i heard davis preach that he loved his family more than God. Now that I know how they lie, i am thinking it was probably something else
anyone know a nathan stricker ?
ReplyDeletei see he's the electrician arm of the biz.
He uses the address of po box 930,graham which is an ntcc address.
Gesang Incorporated's mission is to help homeowners like yourself realize their dreams. I understand that a home is a deeply personal expression of the homeowner. Now that you're ready to make some changes to your home I'd like to put my 29 years building experience to work for you.
ReplyDeleteTalk about some changes WOW!
So many changes from the days of old... The NTCC has nothing to do with your salvation so why do you equate the two. God is concerned first and foremost about your relationship with Him. I know that ministry and works always take a back seat when it comes to your relationship with Jesus Christ. I would invite all current and past (prisoners) I mean uh members to take time and seek God’s true grace like in Ephesians 2:8-9.
RB,
I don’t know you but I would like to encourage you to take a one month sabbatical and seek God about what you’re doing in the NTCC. He calls us first to relationship, then everything else second. God’s grace is enough and you would be doing more for the kingdom of God if you loved your neighbor and gave food to the poor than giving your time and money to the NTCC. I really mean what I say and I pray that folks would find God’s grace more than anything else and then change will come.
LT said,
ReplyDeleteGod’s grace is enough and you would be doing more for the kingdom of God if you loved your neighbor and gave food to the poor than giving your time and money to the NTCC
RB has given a hand to people in his local church area.
Could you make that a little more general, please?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous, you sound ridiculous. Please don't even try to make your church pastor sound charitable, unless you can name some legitimate charitable deeds that COST MONEY! Money talks, the rest walks. Help costs money. The point was that NTCC spends hundreds of thousands of dollars on buying buildings, while the church is not made up of buildings but people, yet they won't spend a dime to help the lower echelons in the org. They lavish themselves in luxury if they are in the top tier sector, but everyone else has to struggle to make ends meet, ESPECIALLY if they are in a 3rd world country! God, I wish some of those women from the Philippines would find time to get online for 10 minutes and find this website, but they don't have enough money to own a laptop.
ReplyDeleteIf there was money being made in the org that affords Tanya to be able to buy a bunch of expensive junk, and Gesang a Mercedes, and so on, they could have distributed this money around to ALL hard-working pastors and they wouldn't have to front the money out of pocket to pay church bills, Kekel and Gesang and others could drive in Chevy's and everyone could take some of their extra spending cash and take up some collections for the very poorest among us, namely the filipinas.
Greg,
ReplyDeleteHere's the link:
http://hartweb.co.pierce.wa.us/docdetail.asp?id=DQwNw%3D%3DZ1%03%13OwobmkE!WDE1MeAI!zA1M&ms=0&cabinet=opr&pg=&id2=y81LKT9nv%03%0FN3X8vmp9oDQ%3DdW!ghzE5O
Also, if you just go to the same link Anonymous posted, you can view many documents about Kekel and land and NTCC.
When you go to
http://hartweb.co.pierce.wa.us/search.asp?cabinet=opr
then you just type, Kekel, in for the name and click search, and it takes you to a large list. You can click on the numbers to the far left, and it opens them up.
Then there may be another link at the bottom (numbers underlined). Click that and you may see xeroxed documents as well. You just have to click on the "image" link and then choose .pdf or .tiff for the image. In this particular case, the document shows exact coordinates. One time I was able to find the pinpointed location of Kekel's recent land grant on Google earth, but I think it may be because there were more modern features on the website for a recent grant of land. It showed it was between Davis' house and the Graham chapel in the woods.
The NTCC ain't nothing but a front. These guys don't care about salvation. It's all about their business ventures and guess what funds them all? Your all mighty tithe dollar. Houses in AZ, big business in WA, all kinds of accounts everywhere, Kekel enterprises, Gesang enterprises. Come on people? Are you all this blind? While you are running around trying to win souls for Christ, these guys are working on ever business venture you can dream of.
ReplyDeleteHaving all this information, you are absolutely out of your mind if you are giving one dime to the NTCC. NTCC INC is not a church, it's a front for all their real estate ventures and the NTCCers are the slaves. They provide the labor and the money. Mike Kekel may even wind up a Billionaire, and you NTCCers are trying to scrape up enough money to go to conference so they can take up another offering that will amount to about $200,000. NTCCers are the biggest suckers that I've ever known in my entire life. It's true.
That may have not been the case years ago but it is now because all this information is available. The NTCC leadership molds so many people to become manual construction labor dudes and then they either get free or dirt cheap labor for everything the leadership wants built. Then when everyone leaves the NTCC, the NTCC has this massive build up of real estate accumulated. So the average NTCCer works his whole life for nothing and Kekel becomes a billionaire. I'm past this whole millionaire thing because the NTCC is a whole lot bigger than I ever dreamed. There is no limit to what the NTCC can do and do you know why? Because they have an endless flow of money with which to work with. $200,000 is nothing to these guys. Drop in the bucket. How many of you NTCCers can say that? And you are going to give them more of your money like you are giving as unto the Lord? Are you kidding me?
You NTCC guys are stone cold blind. Go ahead and just keep giving your money away and when you wind up in hell because you were willfully affiliated with double standard hypocrites, you will have not only threw away your life here on this earth but you'll have done the same for efferently. Your NTCC leaders aren't even saved because they are using you so if the blind is leading the blind, both of you are going to fall in the ditch.
The NTCC ain't nothing but a real estate business and it's so clear its blinding.
Jeff
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteLT said,
God’s grace is enough and you would be doing more for the kingdom of God if you loved your neighbor and gave food to the poor than giving your time and money to the NTCC
RB has given a hand to people in his local church area.
LTravis said…
Anonymous,
The point I was trying to make is anyone can do more for the Kingdom of God outside the NTCC...I do not know RB and maybe he does feed the poor, I hope he does. I’m convinced if he is called to be a pastor he could do more for the advancement of the Kingdom elsewhere. I also know that if he chooses to leave he would experience freedom like never before. I’m only trying to help RB not to harm or discredit the man.
Hey Doug:
ReplyDeleteI found a couple of your messages along with one of mind sitting in the spam folder. I published them. If anyone ever writes a message and it suddenly disappears, it automatically went to the span folder and there is nothing I can do to stop that from happening. I check the spam folder "about" once a day or so and when I find messages just sitting their I post them. I have no problem with someone calling me to say, "Hey Jeff, I posted this message and it disappeared so it's probably sitting in your spam folder." At that point I'll go find it and check the box saying that it ain't spam and it will get posted mediately.
Your messages are up now Doug and by the way; it's great to see you around here. I don't know if we ever met but have a good one.
Jeff
to reiterate what Jeff said and as olson said
ReplyDeleterepetition is a good teacher.
with all of the evidence in front of you here that you can look up yourself to see and you don't have to believe us hateful exer's
you're stupid to keep giving money to ntcc.
you should at least ask for some kind of profit sharing if you are going to keep putting in money
Doug Hardy,
ReplyDeleteThanks for digging up the cache version. We've updated the link on the Drexel Furniture story about tanya's shopping.
imagine, none of these blogs would exist and they'd still have their deeds in secret had we kept to the belief that internet is sinful
ReplyDeletewas not the ntcc founded on the principles of quitting another organization?
ReplyDeleteKris, they wanted you to protect them, but really you needed to be protected from them.
ReplyDeleteYep, no wonder their conference is held way out in the sticks. Can you just imagine that big black dude chasing me in the streets of Seattle?
Then when the police stop him and ask him why he chased me and assaulted me, he tries to say, nah man, i'm a cop too ... uh... but not here though.
was not the ntcc founded on the principles of quitting another organization?
ReplyDeleteDavis even bragged about saying if his org made him the pastor he was going to be in charge, and no one would tell him anything, and the leaders were like, ok, Bro. Davis. I remember him talking on and on in a class about how he was in charge of like 2 or 3 bible colleges, and all these churches that he was the overseer over. Does anyone else remember that class or remember him talking about all the clout he had in a former org?
It really substantiates the claims of wrong-doing when he was so secretive about names of organizations, and if people ask him questions about his past, he just ignores them like they are not even in the room. So strange. Just before I left, a brother asked him how long he was in the service. He ignored him. He asked again. He ignored him again. And answered a question of mine that I had asked like maybe 10 minutes ago.
Gregory said,
ReplyDelete"Now I wonder if Sis. Gesang runs the lizard business"
DnA say,
That's a fact, jack. gesang admitted as much on his chameleons northwest site when he described how they got started. Plus gesang gets only six hours of sleep a night. Every other waking minute is devoted to the borg. If sandy decides to bolt, she's got a financial jump on many ntcc women.
Kris said..."Here's the link:
ReplyDeletehttp://hartweb.co.pierce.wa.us/docdetail.asp?id=DQwNw%3D%3DZ1%03%13OwobmkE!WDE1MeAI!zA1M&ms=0&cabinet=opr&pg=&id2=y81LKT9nv%03%0FN3X8vmp9oDQ%3DdW!ghzE5O
This is the house that is next to Olson's current house and it actually in his name at this time. It was originally given to the Kekels as a wedding gift and probably later was sold to Olson. Incidently, Olson's and Johnson's houses are in their names.
Gesang Inc and Kekel Enterprises can be found here if you do a search for their last names. You can also find "Chameleons Northwest" at this same site as well. You will also want to do a search for "Willard Properties" -
ReplyDeletehttp://dor.wa.gov/content/doingbusiness/registermybusiness/brd/
Specific to Kris' and others question -
Kekel Enterprises
Opened 1/1/07
Tax ID # 602174088
DBA: Kekel Enterprises
Mailing Address: PO Box 1226, Graham, WA 98338-1226
Business Location: 22026 131st Ave E, Graham, WA 98338
What is interesting is that the NAICS code (http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/sssd/naics/naicsrch) for this business type is for Interior Design and Decorating Services. TK is trying to be a designer?
Washington State Dept of Licensing:
https://fortress.wa.gov/dol/dolprod/bpdLicenseQuery/
https://fortress.wa.gov/dol/dolprod/bpdLicenseQuery/lqsLicenseDetail.aspx?RefID=556406
Kekel also has a business called "Willard Properties"
https://fortress.wa.gov/dol/dolprod/bpdLicenseQuery/lqsLicenseDetail.aspx?RefID=1854036
http://www.sos.wa.gov/corps/search_results.aspx?search_type=simple&criteria=all&name_type=contains&name=&ubi=602821129
We all know that Gesang is the "head of the building crew" but he has been flipping / rehabbing properties there in Washington as well for some time. It used to be where a crew would construct or renovate churches within NTCC, but this must be more lucractive. He probably helped to negotiate the deal in Pheonix for RWD because of his knowledge of bank owned properties. He can get people who are willing to be a part of something that they believe is for the "work of the Lord". Many of them have worked for companies like Meridian Electric, received their journeyman's license in electricity or are certified in HVAC maintenance and repair and have framed and insulated houses. He uses his different business contacts and resourecs to come in below budget.
Permit Search
http://www.co.pierce.wa.us/cfapps/dcis/Permitsearch.cfm
Also on the website - www.gesanginc.com shows the information that is registered here:
http://whois.domaintools.com/gesanginc.com
Great, the dude is an entrepreneur. Like I always say, the NTCC is a real estate business and Gesang found his way in a good while back, and he's been able to capitalize on that. Even though RWD is a crook, I can't blame Gesang for wanting and getting a "good" piece of the pie. He is one of the few. Flipping houses is a pretty good deal and quite a good business. Gesang is a smart guy who was in the right place at the right time.
ReplyDeleteI'd rather be in Gesang's shoes than run all around the U.S. spending my own money trying to get a church off the ground only to ultimately remain broke. Of course I wouldn't know how much time Gesang has spent soul winning and pioneering churches? Based on Kristofer's testimony, on that occasion Gesang conducted himself like a swindling crook just like RWD and I believe the testimony, but that is only one. The fact is I don't blame Gesang for getting ahead. It's a whole lot better than being broke. If he is a hypocrite, (and notice I said "if") I'd rather be a rich hypocrite than a broke hypocrite.
Just my two cents.
Jeff
With the NTCC, it was never about the souls and their salvation. It was the coercion and manipulation to help pay for the building of an empire. It's great that Gesang is getting ahead, but it was your tithe money that went to paying the building crew and you paid for him to be licensed, bonded, and insured. For those like Eric Barden, they looked at being a part of the building crew as helping to build the kingdom of God. Sure he went out and did the flipping in between getting sent on RWD's errands, but he has benefitted from his and MCK's activities (Willard Properties).
ReplyDeleteKekel has Willard Properties and it is a "for profit" LLC and MCK and TK are managers within it:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.sos.wa.gov/corps/search_detail.aspx?ubi=602821129
He probably just registered with Washington state and doesn't have a federal tax ID, but probably pays taxes to the Washington State Department of Revenue. What's interesting is the NAIC code is invalid for the type of business, but it can be assumed that it has to do with developing properties.
Kekel Enterprises is a sole proprietorship (probably TK's) that is for the interior design business.
What's really interesting when you got building permits being applied for in NTCC's name and Gesang is the owner.
http://www.co.pierce.wa.us/cfapps/dcis/Permitsearch.cfm
http://epip.co.pierce.wa.us/cfapps/atr/epip/summary.cfm?parcel=0419207011
The place that Willard Properties is registered to is Kekel's new place -
ReplyDelete22026 131st Avenue East
Graham, WA 98338
http://epip.co.pierce.wa.us/cfapps/atr/ePIP/summary.cfm?parcel=0418118005
Bing is outdated, but Google Maps / Earth has a pretty good photo -
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=22026+131st+Ave+E,+Graham,+WA+98338&hl=en&ll=47.054394,-122.25646&spn=0.001358,0.00236&gl=us&t=f&z=19&ecpose=47.05340811,-122.25646019,343.43,0,44.997,0
Anonymous said,
ReplyDelete" For those like Eric Barden, they looked at being a part of the building crew as helping to build the kingdom of God. Sure he went out and did the flipping in between getting sent on RWD's errands, but he has benefitted from his and MCK's activities (Willard Properties)."--July 12, 2011 2:56 PM
Ange says,
Anon, could you please clear something up for me? Just wondering who you meant when you said "he benefitted from his and MCK's activities." I'm personally sure it was not my late ex, Eric Barden, benefiting. During our (lifelong) 8 year marriage I don't recall Eric working on anything with the building crew other than ntcc projects; in other words, I don't recall Eric doing any flipping of houses for ntcc during '91-'99. Just wondering if you meant gesang benefited? Thanks.
Ange
well at least the page mentions willard properties is a for profit entity
ReplyDeletehttp://wa.14thstory.com/willard-properties-llc.html
Ange said..."Anon, could you please clear something up for me? Just wondering who you meant when you said "he benefitted from his and MCK's activities." I'm personally sure it was not my late ex, Eric Barden, benefiting."
ReplyDeleteNo, definitely not saying Eric personally benefitted from Gesang's activities. Gesang is the beneficiary of the flipping and also NTCC (aka the tithe payers) was paying for his general contractor licenses, insurance, bonding, permits and organizational dues. The only reference to Eric was to say how different men like him went with the offer to be on the building crew because of the lure of helping "build the kingdom of God". During those times you had the building crew actually going out to churches and Servicemen's Homes and performing work on NTCC properties or facilities rented by NTCC. Now its about flipping houses and what Gesang can get for himself while the getting is good. He is a Karma Chameleon...
Kristofer Moore,
ReplyDeleteI think you and I were in the Servicemen's home together in Hawaii.
I want to apologize to you for being angry with you the last time we saw each other in Hawaii. There was no excuse for what I said to you.
Harold Lee
wanolwen@yahoo.com