To the left is a picture of a woman with a JOB!!! Something that apparently Tanya Kekel knows all about.
On the previous thread Double Ugh, (D.U.) wrote...
A recent conversation got me thinking about how much better my husband and I are doing since leaving the NTCC. I have a good paying job...which I never would have had if we stayed.
Before we left, we spent much time in the Word reading and talking about whether a woman can work on a job or not. We came to the conclusion that it is not against the Bible for a woman to work on a job.
When I talked to Tanya Kekel about the fact that my husband and I decided to leave the organization, she of course wanted to know why, and I gave her some explanation. I told her that I had decided to work.
I was amazed at what came out of her mouth next! She said it's okay if I have a job and that there are many women in the NTCC that work.
I told her that my understanding was that it is looked down upon and preached against.
She said it is not preached against! Then she asked me when was the last time I heard Kekel preach against it.
I told her I can't remember, but I know it has been. She almost made me feel stupid...but we all know better. I told her that I don't want to get preached at for having a job.
Now, I know I did not just imagine that the NTCC preaches and teaches against women working! Kekel even wrote in his blog that it is against the Bible!!! So, did she flat out lie to me?!?
Chief said....
Imagine that and the answer is YES; she flat out lied to you. She knows better. Nothing about the NTCC leadership surprises me anymore. Flip flopping, double standard hypocrites. That's all you have with the NTCC leadership and Tanya is no exception. Look at Tanya's response: "Then she asked me when was the last time I heard Kekel preach against it."
So they've flip flopped on that one now also!!! I guess Kekel doesn't preach on that anymore, do you think? Who knows with the NTCC leadership. Who knows what they believe and what they don't. I know one thing they believe along with so many other crooked churches: "All Christians pay tithe and give in the offering". "You can't out give Gawd". They won't ever flip flop on that part.
This tells me that the ntcc is getting desperate. We all know that the ntcc hierarchy has always preached against women having jobs. That's why so many ministers wives have not worked in decades. They are losing. Losing good people because people like the Ughs are waking up and realizing that it's all a big scam. The blogs are helping people to re-engage their brains. It's a wonderful thing.
ReplyDeleteTanya knows very well what her Father's stance has been on women working. The only reason this is changing is because they can no longer maintain the illusions that we expose on the internet. Chief, this is a topic that you have brought up on many occasions and anyone with a brain realizes that it's stupid and non-biblical to say that women can't work.
Great stuff, Double Ugh! This is definitely a good sign and I think it shows how phony the Kekels are. Hopefully people continue to wake up and leave the ntcc.
That was a real good article Double Ugh. So Tanya could care less where her money comes from as long as the tithe trail remains endless. You know she's got those shopping sprees to go on. That's a big house to fill. The Kekel's and Davis' are a bunch of con artists. No more no less.
ReplyDeleteChief said "That's a big house to fill. The Kekel's and Davis' are a bunch of con artists. No more no less".
ReplyDeleteNow wait a minute Chief. The Kekel's downsized when they moved in their new home. It's was a real sacrifice for them to have move right next door to pops!!!
mdr
Silly me.
ReplyDeleteApparently the new house next to Dad is nicer and bigger than the last one, even though Grant does not live at home anymore...Let's talk about the fact that women should not cut their hair, in the bible it says women should not have shorn hair, shorn is shaven, is it not? I remember asking Mrs Davis, "why can I not cut the split ends off of the ends of my hair", she replied "in the bible it says women should not cut their hair" So I went around with hair that I had trouble combing out when it was wet, I am caucasian by the way, but I remember thinking, this is ridicualous, this is some 7 years ago, thankfully, I am long gone...
ReplyDeleteOh, more good news. Yesterday, I talked to my friend who left the NTCC a few years ago and became a Commissioned Officer. His wife is getting a commission also so they are both going to be Officers in the Army. Get some of that income. You call that cursed? Serving your nation is being cursed? The people who fit the definition of "cursed", at least financially are the majority of people who make up the NTCC.
ReplyDeleteRiding around in old broken unreliable automobiles, sitting on second hand furniture, wearing second clothes. Y'all NTCCers need to wake up and another thing. Just because the NTCC leadership may decide that it's ok for women to work doesn't mean you should give your money to the Kekels/NTCCC. Many of us have left the NTCC and we don't give a dime to the NTCC but yet we are doing great financially. So there is more evidence to prove that the people who stop giving their money to the NTCC will be blessed financially then the other way around.
The NTCC has y'all brainwashed. They say if you don't pay tithe to the NTCC you'll be cursed financially. Well I say that all of us who've left the NTCC proves that if you don't pay tithe to the NTCC you'll be blessed financially. Every single one of us who has left the NTCC are doing good and in most cases we are doing great!!!!
The problem is, when you give your money to the NTCC, you are not giving your money to God but you are giving your money to conn artist crooks. God expects you to be smarter than that and that is why so many of you ain't blessed. God may not be quote, "cursing" you but he is not helping you either and he is just letting you give all your money away to conn artists and that is why many of you are broke. Those of us who have left are well off because we are making smart decisions. Don't just shut me out, THINK ABOUT IT!!!!
Verna Davis wears wigs that look like they are cut/layered. RDub preached on numerous occasions against wigs that look like they are cut. Double standard!
ReplyDeleteTanya perms and teases and curls her hair so much, no wonder it is still so short...
That stuff is worse for the hair than trimming...it tears out so much hair. Double standard!
And let's not forget, Tanya works a job.
On another note, the last time I saw Tanya, here hair is substantially longer, so either she uses some new "vitamins" for her hair, or she was trimming it, how can a woman be in the NTCC and have the same length of hair for years and years. It just doesn't happen, if any caucasian woman does not cut here hair, eventually it will be down to at least your waist. I always wondered why Tanya's hair never seemed to "grow", and it has nothing to do with being half Phillipino, if anything that should mean her hair is definately capable of being knee length, I can't think of any Asian women in the NTCC that have short hair, barely touching her shoulders. She cut it, I know it and most other people in the NTCC should know it too. I think this is such a small issue in the scope of things, but as a woman, it was VERY frustrating to not be able to cut my hair, I always looked awful. Long hair with no style is not attractive, it just looks old and frumpy. Just my two cents worth....
ReplyDeletePrior to this conversation I had with Tanya, my husband had talked with MCK...
ReplyDeleteIn the conversation, my husband told him that we were leaving the org and Kekel had to explain about all that he's been through and all his sacrifice and tried to tell us that things would get better...
Once he realized my husband wouldn't budge, he asked this exact question,
"You are not going to go back into sin and put your wife on a job, are you?"
My husband responded that, no, we are not going back into sin.
I wish I had remembered that when Tanya and I had talked and she put me on the spot. Oh, well...it just proves over and over how messed up they are.
Regarding the Cult policy on women working; here is a quote from Senior Pastor Kekel's Blog: "One of the biggest enemies of aging Ministers is their fear that they won’t be taken care of in their old age. This fear causes them to resort to secular education and employment, abandoning the call of God; but the key is taking care of their old age, in their youth. Then, the wives go on jobs too, which is against the bible, and they find that the same spending habits that got them into the mess, rob them of happiness, even with a double income."
ReplyDeleteAgain, this was a a quote from a recent post by him on his Blog. Senior Pastor Kekel posted it on 4 February 2011 in a preaching message post titled "Fight or Flight."
Whether Senior Pastor Kekel is preaching this or not doesn't matter, because we can't know what he preaches if we are not there. But, reading what he writes, and quoting it is another matter altogether.
Although, Senior Pastor Kekel shares in the referenced post that he has preached this.
Gregory
Kekel asked...
ReplyDelete"You are not going to go back into sin and put your wife on a job, are you?"
Chief would answer...
None of your dog gone business you double standard hypocrite, flip, flopping, know it all. You ain't my daddy you diabolical, dastardly dork. Not only that you huckster, your wife has been on the job since I've known her. Being a stayer at home (according to your false interpretation of the scripture) doesn't mean you get to work at the NTCS you fork tongued copper head.
That's what Kekel the conniver would get out of me. People need to stop feeling that they have to answer to that pompous clown. Oberhauser tried to make me and my wife tell him who in the church knew we were leaving and we told him straight out that we weren't going to tell him. Then he got mad and said that because he was the pastor of the church, we had to tell him and we replied with a resounding "NO".
And that is how to treat Kekel the creep. Let that clown try to chew me out or question my intentions. I'd give him a few choice phrases that I won't post on this blog.
Cheif said,
ReplyDelete"Oberhauser tried to make me and my wife tell him who in the church knew we were leaving and we told him straight out that we weren't going to tell him. Then he got mad and said that because he was the pastor of the church, we had to tell him..."
That is all part of the "controlling" side of NTCC. What does it matter who knew that you guys were leaving? They would all find out soon enough when you did leave. Or was it so he can do "damage control"?
Probably.
Oberhauser's wife is pretty nosey too, from my experience with her. Maybe if she was allowed to get on a job, she wouldn't have so much time to be in other people's business...and she would have the money she needs to get the things she needs.
D.U. said...
ReplyDeleteOberhauser's wife is pretty nosy too, from my experience with her. Maybe if she was allowed to get on a job, she wouldn't have so much time to be in other people's business.
Chief said...
Amen to that one. She is nosy. Her husband had her run around and ask the few ladies in the church who knew we were leaving. The sister who had an idea admitted that she knew we were thinking about leaving because my wife told her. The very next service Oberhauser blasted the sister and ran her off. The Sister was about 60 years old. This is the same sister that they tried to get to leave her husband and go to the NTCS. They also tried to get her interested in an older brother in the church while she was married to her husband. She is still married to her husband. You call that Christianity? That kind of nonsense is Cult 101!!!
Oberhauser and his wife were really a couple poor excuses for church leaders. Mayers and his wife were about the same. Just a different style of the same nonsense.
Oberhauser doesn't know the first thing about Christianity and neither does his wife.
ReplyDeleteOberhauser doesn't know the first thing about friendship and treating people right. He's too caught up in that NTCC garbage. He is a blind follower; a real yes man.
ReplyDeleteKekel is a Chippy, Cheat, Swindler and Huckster. He is also a Pilfering, Purloining, Sidewinding, Double-headed, quadruple tongued, Copperhead.
ReplyDeleteCongrats, MDR, the Patriots were unstoppable tonight and Tom Brady was rock steady. My team waited too long to show up and then fumbled when they should have scored. Tough luck for me.
ReplyDeleteThere you go Don. I don't have to blast you this time. You got it right. You were just a little of with the quadruple part but you got the first part right and that's the most important part. Pretty soon I'll be singing your praises like RWD used to praise Denis and Barnes.
ReplyDeleteJust don't double cross me and take my blog members like they took Davis' church members and ministers. Yeah they were the greatest, hey RWD?
Don & Ange said "Congrats, MDR, the Patriots were unstoppable tonight..."
ReplyDeleteHey, Don, the Pats do look pretty good right now. 256 rushing yds. and 200 yds. on the ground last week...who would have thunk that when talking about the Pats? On that last possession when Peyton was driving them down the field, I thought, Oh no, here we go again. Peyton is good but, Brady is better. Brady is 8-4 against Peyton. What more needs to be said!?!
The Pats come to our house next weekend and in the words of Michael Jackson... "I'llll be there, I'll be thereeee! sound pretty good, don't I? :0)
You take my friend!
So, as a member in Graham for some 13 years, I worked up until I had my first child, all the while paying tithe, never did they say that I was "sinning" for working on a job. This stuff just makes me mad to this day. I guess in the end, they thought this sister is sinning but we will cash her check anyway. Disgusting....
ReplyDeleteThey don't preach against women working??!! What kind of crack do they think we're smoking that we don't remember the hundreds of rebukes that rained down upon us regarding the subject of women working. If that's not the case now, it represents total compromise, yet Mike will aver that "nothing has changed."
ReplyDeleteThese guys could teach Orwell a few lessons.
I know Vic. Tanya Kekel is also a conn artist or at least she certainly tries to be. The Davis' and the Kekel are anything but sincere. It's like they sit around and say, "I wonder what we can get these dummies to buy off on next?"
ReplyDeleteChief said:
ReplyDelete"Pretty soon I'll be singing your praises like RWD used to praise Denis and Barnes.
Just don't double cross me and take my blog members like they took Davis' church members and ministers. Yeah they were the greatest, hey RWD?"
DnA Said:
I gotta get a piece of the pie for myself, Chief. You have a pretty big following, and I wanna be more like you. I might go around to all of your blog members and see if I can drive some wedges. Even if I could convince 20% of your blog members to become our blog members, that would be a good start. By the way is there any money in this? Oh, I forgot, you aren't getting rich off of your blog. You can keep your blog members because most of them do not pay tithe or give in offerings, and I can't get rich off of them. Shucks!
DnA
MDR said:
ReplyDelete"Brady is 8-4 against Peyton. What more needs to be said!?!"
DnA says,
The only thing I might be able to add to this is, "Every dog has his day".
Statistics will show that Peyton is better than Brady in just about every category except the one that truly matters and that is Brady's ability to win big games, like Playoffs, and Superbowls. Many think that Montana was the best QB ever because he won four Superbowls, but like Terry Bradshaw, he had a very good supporting cast. Brady has been a part of a very efficient system and has had the benefit of being on a team that is coached very well. Manning has carried his team into the playoffs and willed them to win in many cases, but also has lost a lot of playoff games. When He got injured his team went from 12 straight seasons making the playoffs to having a 3 win and 13 loss season. When Brady got injured, Matt Cassel stepped in and helped NE to a pretty good season.
Brady is brilliant and I'm not taking anything away from him, just saying that it helps to be surrounded by good players. Elway carried his team for his entire career, but it wasn't until he was given a supporting cast, that he was able to bring the Lombardi trophy to Denver.
Peyton threw his 408th TD pass during this game while Brady threw his 308th. Brady is 2 years behind Peyton, so those numbers will probably be closer when they retire, but both QB's will go down in history as all time greats. I wouldn't be too surprised if Eli, ends up catching them both. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Take care, It's always a pleasure.
Don
D&A said...
ReplyDeleteYou can keep your blog members because most of them do not pay tithe or give in offerings, and I can't get rich off of them. Shucks!
Chief said....
What? All blog members pay tithe and give in the offering. If you don't like it, there is the door. It takes electricity to keep my computer on just like it takes electricity to keep the lights on in the church. I want everyone to start sending me 10% of their gross income. "Gross" means before you pay your taxes. That's bible and I'm going to use the same verse the NTCC uses: 1 Cor 16-2. Notice the NTCC threw in that verse last in their doctrinal statement. (1 Cor:2 was for the suckers who don't check or are too brainwashed to admit what it really means).
10% Y'all and don't steel my blog members when I start getting the 10% like Barnes and Denis did. Don and Ange are the greatest because they got money and numbers and that's what it's all about. Money and numbers. I'm making Don my Blogermans home director like Davis made Denis the Servicemans home director because Don's got money and numbers. Just don't steal my blog members Don.
Wow, I've been promoted to bloggerman's home director, so now who want's the privilege of shining my wingtips and taking my suits and white shirts to the cleaners? Now you can call me sir from now on and buy my dinners when we go out for un-fellowship.
ReplyDeleteDon't you want to be a servant of all like me? After all you can't out give God, which reminds me that we will be taking up a special offering after our next blog post to defray the expenses that we are incurring. We have been operating in red lately. We have $279,000 in our escrow but we can't touch that so we need to take up offerings and have more blog posts every week.
Chief, if you are not bringing in enough money, you need to have more blog posts every week and stop inviting poor people to your blog. You can't build a blog that way. If you don't like it at McDonald's you can always go to Burger king. Gripers and complainers can go to Don and Ange's blog.
You were here before we were and you have blogged about everything under the sun, You've never missed the glob and everything you do is by the glob. I can't remember the last time I sinned against the blogs.
DnA
Oh yeah, I almost forgot something else in that conversation with Tanya.
ReplyDeleteI had specifically asked her, "Don't you guys believe that if a married woman works, that she is condemned to hell?"
All she could say was, "I can only tell you what the Bible says."
I was in shock and awe...I couldn't even hardly sleep that night because of how badly she dealt with that. I mean, come on, I was being very open with her, she could have given me the same respect...but no.
Chief,
ReplyDeleteWe have been operating in the red lately and need to have an un-conference, so we can require everyone to get in their oil puking junkers and drive across the country, so we can jack them up for not being leaders. We could also share a little bit of Kekel's wisdom with them while we are at it. Did you know that if we sacrifice, we will have people, and more people means we will have the finances we need. And then after we share that with them, we can tell them that our organization owes them nothing so don't expect a grant from us. We can throw the I Cor. 9 scripture at them and tell them to stop finding fault with others and comparing themselves with each other. They will be so busy asking God to forgive them for their own sins, that they will not even question our leadership and they will overlook our hypocrisy also. We Can do what ever we want and they will revere us as super apostles. They will think that we are sacrificing because they will believe our un-conference is something we are doing for them at our expense.
That's how we'll brainwash them Chief. We will tell them not to make the great Corinthian mistake by Comparing their sacrifice with the sacrifices of others, and then out of the other side of our mouths we will tell them how that we have been sacrificing before they ever came along. If we make them feel stupid while we jack them up, they will definitely overlook our hypocrisy, and we can offer them empty promises like, "God will bless you, just like us if you continue to sacrifice".
You see, Chief, there has to be a balance. Keep them afraid of you, but offer them some crumbs from your spiritual table every once in a while.
DnA
This topic reminded me of a book that jordan wrote I can't remember the title but it was something like the pilgrim progress.
ReplyDeleteI remember this book beccause somebody let me read it and there he talked about women that stayed home and were "keepers at home"
I can't remember but he went into detail about why she shouldn't work, or have a job outside the home and quoted the bible.
The tiemans gave such book to a lady and her husband read it and got so mad and turmoil in their lives that it destroyed their marriage and who knows what happened to them.
I remembered this because she was such a nice lady and she had a good job and all of the sudden she stops working and the husband couldn't understand.
Maybe somebody still has a copy of this book.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteGood point about the "20th Century Pilgrims Progress" book.
The section you are referencing is on Page 83, and is Chapter 53, and is titled "Mrs.Career Woman."
I am going to add this reference to a new article I am writing about all the married women who work in NTCC, and the Cults long standing, well known and documented stand against it.
Thanks for the idea,
Gregory
DnA wrote...
ReplyDeleteWow, I've been promoted to bloggerman's home director, so now who want's the privilege of shining my wingtips and taking my suits and white shirts to the cleaners?
Chief wrote...
ROFLOL!!! You guys are too much. That post was funny. I was laughing all the way through it. Man that was funny when you wrote: "After all you can't out give God". LOL. The funniest part is how true it all is. Boy we were stupid but now I can laugh about it. Especially with these crazy posts you guys write. DnA, I love your sense of humor. That stuff was hilarious.
Funny, funny, funny: We have been operating in the red lately and need to have an un-conference, so we can require everyone to get in their oil puking junkers and drive across the country, so we can jack them up for not being leaders.
ROFLOL!!!!!!! I'm laughing right now!!! I can't read no more of your stuff. My stomach is starting to hurt for real. I just ate. Later you knuckleheads. Boy I got a good laugh.
DnA wrote....
ReplyDeleteThat's how we'll brainwash them Chief.
Chief wrote...
Ha, ha, ha! Thats how we'll do it. I just promoted you from Blogermans home director to General Blogerseer. I want you to be like Olson acting all humble and all and everyone will believe everything you tell them. You can be boring like Olson and everyone will still think you are the greatest blogster that ever walked. Sounds like a great plan. When are we going to have our first annual blogsters conference?
We'll take up our first World Bloggings offering and pass slips of paper so everyone can make pledges and announce everyones name who gave. I'll be the first one to give with a donation of $3000 (which of course will go back to myself because I have control of everything anyway). I'll use it to buy land so I can build a non-profit non-taxable house on our bloggermans property. Then we'll buy some blogster RVs to be driven around in and tell everyone how Gawd has blessed us while saying "Look at me in The Big Blogster RV"!!! We got it all figured out Don and Ange because the NTCC taught us how it's done. Then when everyone else is broke because they've given us all their extra money, we can be like Kekel and preach about them all being stupid and it's their fault that they are broke because they didn't follow our Master Money Making Blogster Plan.
What do you say Don??? We'll be rich. Do you think my brainwashing techniques will work? They work for RWD and Kekel???
Olson IS boring, and working with him was HORRIBLE!!! He keeps putting things off because he is "so busy". He is almost NEVER clear about what he is talking about and usually adds a, "You know what I'm saying brother".
ReplyDelete...but you really don't know what he is saying.
Up until the very end, when we were leaving the org, he wanted us to get as much out of the church memebers as we could. He wasn't happy with the small amount of money we sold the furnishings for (even though we had to do it in a rush) and he persuaded us to sell back something to a church member that the church member had bought! (Well, the church member had just bought something to make it better, and we felt so guilty to make him pay for the whole thing.)
I feel sorry for anyone who has to work with Olson.
We eventually apologized to this church member for selling that back to him...the NTCC will make you do crazy things!
Don said "I wouldn't be too surprised if Eli, ends up catching them both. That's my story and I'm sticking to it."
ReplyDeleteNah! Eli is mediocre/good at best. I refer to him as the luckiest quarterback in the game. It'll take him years to even think about touching Peyton and Brady's records/stats.
DU said...
ReplyDeleteHe wasn't happy with the small amount of money we sold the furnishings for (even though we had to do it in a rush) and he persuaded us to sell back something to a church member that the church member had bought!
Chief said...
Wow. Olson is dirty. What a scoundrel. Olson is a piece of crap. Olson belongs behind bars.
MDR said...
ReplyDeleteNah! Eli is mediocre/good at best. I refer to him as the luckiest quarterback in the game. It'll take him years to even think about touching Peyton and Brady's records/stats.
Chief said...
Maybe, but he's beat Brady both times they've faced each other in the Super Bowl. If I'm Eli, I'll take those two Super Bowls over the stats. Yes I know Brady has won three but those two against Eli, he lost. You can't take anything from Eli. Marino has stats but never won a Super Bowl. I'd take Eli's two wins over Marino's stats.
You know I got to stick up for my Giants MDR. Having said that, your Pats are looking real good this year.
So, I was a married woman that worked and I was condemned to hell, BUT, they still cashed my tithe check every two weeks. If they where really concerned about my soul, why didn't they tell me I was sinning by working on a job... I feel really duped. Silly me. What a joke....
ReplyDeleteThat's how the NTCC operates. It's all about the money. Money and numbers; that's what RWD said in conference.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteChief said "You know I got to stick up for my Giants MDR. Having said that, your Pats are looking real good this year."
ReplyDeleteI know! That's my way of sticking up for Brady. I'll Take super bowl wins any day over stats. I just don't like Eli cause he's beat my team, twice at that!
Have a good one chief, I'm off to work. mdr
That was quite the gracious reply MDR. I think you are getting a little soft in your old age. That's ok Bro. To everything there is a season. Again, your Patriots are looking good. Too bad the Jets lost last night. I was pulling for them. It was a close game. Mark Sanchez couldn't stop getting his passes deflected.
ReplyDelete20th Century Pilgrim's Progress--what a blast from the past! I've still got my copy, and it's full of Pastor-worshipping BS. The whole thing is a giant suck-up to RW. They had it printed in the Philippines at some cut rate and sold them for $5 a pop. Mine fell apart in about two days (but I still have all the pieces!). I'm sure John Bunyan turned over in his grave when that load of crap was published.
ReplyDeleteVic said " I'm sure John Bunyan turned over in his grave when that load of crap was published."
ReplyDeleteVic, that is so funny! Jordan is the biggest suck-up of them all. I've wanted to gag a couple of times when I heard him salivate over Davis. the whole thing is really sick! He'll probably get so emotional at Davis' funeral, that he'll prophecy, like he did at the Phoenix "Davis rally"... who knows!
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteLast year on this blog I called it, saying Denver needed to hand things over to Tebow. When they did he took them to the playoffs. Hopefully the Jets won't wait any longer; because The Numbers Don't Lie
ReplyDeleteVideo Link Here or copy and paste this URL in your Web Browser:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyupdbzmieA
And remember, it's all about the numbers! That's what rdub says!
MDR, So Rex Ryan's sideline temper tantrums remind you of rwd-bag scowling over the congregation? DUDE!!! That had me ROTFLOL!
ReplyDeleteAnge said she's never seen RR but NOW she knows what he looks like when he's throwing a 'hissy fit'! LOL!
It's true! When I saw him getting mad the first thing I thought about was Davis looking over the congregation with that scowl of his.
ReplyDeleteIt's true what you said about Tebow. In that game Sunday night they turned the ball over to him and he marched the team into the red zone...Sanchez comes back in and the first play throws an interception. If it works why change it?
Jeff said,
ReplyDelete"So they've flip flopped on that one now also!!!"
this ain't new ! depending on who you were or geographical locale a woman could work a job. we knew of a married sister who was allowed to reenlist in the military by the establishment. if your hubby made 5.15 an hour get in the SOL line. your job was coupons, calling family, or the nearby church food giveaway.
You better believe that the NTCC took advantage of the "nearby church food giveaway"! They tried to get more than food; they also went for money. The NTCC is so pathetic.
ReplyDeleteOberhauser's wife used to take this sister in the church around to other churches in an attempt to get the sister handouts. That is so sick. Using other churches because the church you are a part of is too greedy take care of their own!!! They probably made the sister pay tithe on the handouts also. The NTCC is sick.
Memorandum from the general bloggerseer: Make sure you have your blogster reports in by Sunday. I will be calling all blog ministers at 3am to verify that this is done. Anyone caught leaving anonymous comments will be jacked up at the next blogger un-conference. Bring your footballs, frisbees and your wallets and be ready to preach, pray or die.
ReplyDeleteMake sure you have my favorite brand of coffee too; or you will become pulpit-fodder in the next semi-annual-unconference-meeting. And remember: I only like pork, "the 'other' white meat"! I'm really big on white meat -- if you know what I mean. Now all you N***ers, don't get offended; remember they that love the borg, nothing shall offend them! So pray thru and send in your tithe and offerings (cash or money orders only) along with your blogster reports. If your numbers are good, we might let you join the Massah at the plantation house where he will regale you with more N***er jokes and punch you HARD and laugh at you for turning 'purple' while you grin and bow your head saying to yourself, "Aw. shucks, Masssh loves me" when deep down in your soul you want to knock him clear down back to Arkansas for playing you for a chump.
ReplyDeleteOh yes, it's un-conference time again at the Ole Plantation. Come one, come all, we'll bring the football.
If you're reading this; and you think, "This is really wicked." You're right; it is really wicked! Remember,we are only talking about what they are doing in the NTCC; we are only recording how they conduct themselves in the highest levels of the NTCC. Have a good day y'all, and think about it!
ReplyDeleteIn case anyone is wondering, Don and Ange were giving examples of the language that was freely tossed around by certain leaders in the NTCC. The "N" word was tossed around like a football and if someone had a problem with it, the NTCC leadership said they were the problem. Don and Ange quoted the scripture they would use.
ReplyDeleteSo the practice was to deliberately make offensive statements or tell offensive racist jokes and if someone was bothered by the statements, the NTCC leadership would say they were wrong for being offended. It was a mind game, brainwash, set up, plain and simple. It was a way to humiliate people while breaking their spirit to even think.
Well, call my wife or son the "N" word (you bunch of NTCC punk jerks) and see how that goes. I'll make a big enough scene that I won't have to do anything. Some Black man in the area will gladly punch you right straight in your fat nose and then I'll testify against you in court rightfully showing that some racist NTCC jerk incited the whole encounter.
R.W. Davis and Mikey Kekel have a history of tossing around the "N" word. They are both a couple jerks.
off topic but what are yalls thoughts on bankruptcy? if I already filed many years a ago... does that have to be paid back to be right with God or not? I have seen both sides of the argument but wanted to ask you ask here?
ReplyDeleteI filed back in 2005 not due to laziness but had a car payment that was too much (it was taught you should only go into debt for a house and a car) among other debts put into investing due to pressure of needing tp go out and build a church. on top of all that I had to keep quitting good paying jobs to meet the ntcc job requirements so as a result you end up with low paying jobs.
I hope you can find the time sometime to study it out and get back to me either here or via email.
thanks for reading.
dexterkimmy@gmail.com
The NTCC will try to guilt trip anyone to meet financial obligations that fit their agenda both financially and psychologically. Not only that, being right with God isn't about you making it to heaven or going to hell because you followed someones interpretation concerning the matter of paying back a bankruptcy. Sure you try to do right, (unlike the NTCC leadership) but you are right with God because of what Jesus did, not because of someones interpretation concerning the subject of Bankruptcy.
ReplyDeleteWas it a Chapter 7 or 13? One is a liquidation and the other is not. Do your best to pay your bills and sleep well at night and try not to make the same mistake twice. That is the best advise anyone can give the way I see it. You want to be right with God according to the Bible? Have faith in Jesus and love thy neighbor as thyself.
Unfortunately I think you spent too much time in the NTCC. The NTCCs legalistic approach about everything has you living in self condemnation. If your question was sincere, (which I have no reason to doubt) you have to get the NTCC out of your head because their legalistic ways which were pounded into your brain, motivated you to ask that question the way I see it.
it was a ch. 7
ReplyDeleteWell then by law, you are not obligated to pay back anything. The same laws that give the church a break on taxes gave you a break on your debts. Of course your credit score got slammed but 10 years after the BK that drops off your 3 credit bureaus. You don't own anyone anything and that is the law. If some self righteous person says you do, then every "non" profit church should pay taxes like the rest of us. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and Caesar says under chapter 7, you're free and clear. Don't let some crooked church leader who says he is not for profit but really is, guilt trip you into thinking otherwise.
ReplyDeleteThat's awesome!
DeleteNTCC, as usual, is full of crap. Bankruptcy is based on the biblical doctrine of the "year of release," when debts were forgiven every seven years. It was part of Moses' law. Society has deemed it desirable to enable folks to get a fresh start. Only a legalist like RW would enslave people to debt for life--we don't even see that in the old testament. So much for him being a "modern day Moses."
ReplyDeleteReal good point Vic and great observation. These church leaders like to apply the Old Testament when it makes their wallets fatter in the case of paying tithe but the example you gave they conveniently overlook.
ReplyDeleteGood Morning all, Way to break that down Chief. I'm not sure you intended that to be funny but we got a really good laugh out of it.
ReplyDelete"The same laws that give the church a break on taxes gave you a break on your debts."
I wonder if they are convicted about all of the cash rent payments, tithe, offerings they took and never reported to the IRS. My guess is no. Super Apostle Kekel, or SAK, is a lying SAK. They have used every loop hole they could find to get out of paying taxes and they have a lot of nerve teaching that people have to pay back their bankruptcies if they want to be "right with God".
These guys are tax evading crooks and scoundrels. They have played the IRS like a fidel and openly stolen from them for years. The ntcc is just a vehicle that SAK and RWD use to accumulate wealth. If you are in the ntcc, you have been used and you are being used. They really don't care about you. If you think they do, then try asking them to be transparent with their finances and see where that gets you. They will think nothing about running you off or blasting you from behind the pulpit. They are spending your tithe dollars frivolously and wastefully right in front of your eyes. These people are really sick and this has nothing to do with heaven or hell or the souls that they deceive. They are in it for the money, PERIOD.
DnA
Well, the Pats are in town. I'm off to have lunch with Brady and then it's game time! Wish y-all could be here. See you then!!! (a little Filipino lingo there for ya)! ;0)
ReplyDeleteHope you have a great time, Matt. I'm pulling for the Pats this week. One of these days, we'll probably go to a Broncos game if they play an away game close to where we live. If they ever play the Jets in New Jersey, we might make the trip and we'll probably wear our Denver Broncos Tebow Jerseys. Those Jerseys might be worth a pretty penny some day, who knows.
ReplyDeleteDon and Ange said "Those Jerseys might be worth a pretty penny some day, who knows".
ReplyDeleteBIG TIME BUCKAROOS!! If you ever do get to see the Broncos play you'll have a blast. Being there live and hearing the crowd get into it is crazy fun, especially here in Seattle! These fans are nuts! Aaron Rogers got sacked Eight times in the first half when the Packers played the Hawks, and this place was rock-in!
So pray for me Don, because it's going to be so hard going to see the Pats play the Hawks instead of going down to Graham and listen to that "Punk of Punks" Schmekel scream and yell at everybody.
Don said...
ReplyDeleteThose Jerseys might be worth a pretty penny some day, who knows.
Chief said...
They might be Don. We should find out a little more soon because I suspect that Tebow is going to have a chance to prove himself again as Sanchez is playing poorly. It's hard to say because I just don't know if Tebow is ever going to be a "full time" starting Quarterback. For whatever reason these coaches don't seem to have too much confidence in him. I'm not saying the guy doesn't have talent but that is just the reality that seems to exist. We'll see.
MDR said...
ReplyDeleteSo pray for me Don, because it's going to be so hard going to see the Pats play the Hawks instead of going down to Graham and listen to that "Punk of Punks" Schmekel scream and yell at everybody.
Chief said...
I don't know how you'll be able to live with yourself MDR. I know you are going to miss Conniving Kekel a lot but please don't start crying at the ball game. Those football fans will think you are soft and I won't be able to respond to you anymore on this blog because they'll think I'm soft too!!! Look, just make it easy on both of us. Go see Schmekel first, listen to him scream at everyone and tell everyone how sorry they are and then, (even if you are late for the game) go to the game and if you can stomach it, listen to the fans scream and yell.
I know that can't compare to listening to Schmekel bloviate, but at least you'll be able to make it through the game if you go see Kekel and Tanya first. Not only that, your wife will get a chance to learn about how to keep a job as a woman if she spends some time around Tap Dancing Tanya. You can kill three birds with one stone. Listen to Conniving Kekel, learn from Tap Dancing Tanya, and go to the game???!!! And still be right with GAWD!!!
Oh, that was four things. Let me count and make sure I got it right.
ReplyDelete1. Listen to Conniving Kekel the schmuck.
2. Go see Tanya Tap Dance about the subject of women working on a job away from the home.
3. Go to the game and listen to the fans scream and yell: (That will be the hard one to deal with just so you know MDR).
And 4. Stay right with GAWD thanks to the NTCC!!!
There, I got it right that time. It was 4 not 3. Kill 4 birds with one stone. I'm pretty smart, AIN'T I???
I have a question for Chief or anyone else here. I was a member in Graham for some 12 years, I was not in seminary so I did not see all that Tanya was involved in with her Dad's church. So, what are her duties in Graham? I heard she teaches, but what else? and of course the question still remains, so she may not have gotten a paycheck from her duties but, it seems she worked within the NTCC. Why didn't I wake up and see this, wow, I was naive, I did work though, my husband did not tell me I should stop working because I was in the NTCC. I do see the double standard that they set up and then never seemed to justify it. It sickens me to think I was so duped by the NTCC. I of course, need to fault myself too, I made the choice to attend this so called "Christian" church.
ReplyDeleteAnon said "...so she may not have gotten a paycheck from her duties but,"
ReplyDeleteAnon she may have not gotton a paycheck but, you better believe she got,(gets) paid!! Schmekel might act like he's in charge but, everybody knows who the "head-cheese" is in that family.
I wouldn't know what her "official" duties were in Graham. I know she was an instructor in the NTCS and she was pretty good at brainwashing people. Shopping a lot and spending everyone elses money was one of her duties. That much I know for sure. Looking other women up and down to see how they dressed was one of her duties. Watching over NTCC women while they cleaned her house was one of her duties and she was real good at that one. Picking out and diligently searching for abnormally fancy furniture for her houses was one of her duties. Singing was one of her duties. Have I forgotten any?
ReplyDeleteOh yes. Being spoiled rotten was one of her duties. There, that last one covered them all.
By the way and for the record and what I'm about to write I mean sincerely.
ReplyDeleteIf any of us were the son or daughter of RWD, chances are, we wouldn't be any different than Tanya. Having that knowledge doesn't result in me thinking more highly of her but come on people; If everything was handed to me on a silver platter do you think I'd turn it away? Not likely. Big giant houses, nice cars, fancy furniture? Yeah she might be a big hypocrite who uses other women to clean her house but I'm not so certain that I'd be any different if I were in her shoes.
Knowing what I know now, (having been a leader in the Army) I wouldn't have my subordinates come to clean my house for pay or no pay but Tanya has never been a "real" leader. She doesn't know the first thing about being a real leader. All she knows is the NTCC's style of leadership and their style of leadership is all about using and taking advantage of people and that is all she knows. Think about it. That woman has been living in a fairyland her entire life!!!!!!!! I mean really!!!!
Tanya doesn't have a clue what real life is all about. She has never had a real job, she has never had to worry about money, she has never had to worry about having a house, she has never had to worry about her child being well taken care of. She wouldn't even let Grant go on a high school field trip without her and Verna following him and spying on him to make sure he was alright. Not only is Tanya very far from normal, her version of Christianity is extremely warped, crooked, twisted and often quite evil.
Tanya is a very complex spoiled individual who will not forsake her excessive lifestyle and frankly I'm not so sure I would either if I was in her shoes. Just being real. Food for thought. Nevertheless she is still a hypocrite / tap dancer, and that's all she knows and has been taught.
Anonymous wrote..."So, what are her duties in Graham?"
ReplyDeleteShopping, decorating her home, visiting her parents, supervising the cleaning crew for her mansion, getting to the fellowship hall first to get the best of the pies and bread for her family. And there is probably a lot more she does.
Gregory
In a normal world stores do give their 'day old' bread and baked goods to churches; because they think that nonprofit will give the food to the poor. What they don't know is that in the ntcc EVERYONE not on the board is poor. It is the bible school students who are poor. The ntcc has no outreach to the poor of the local community like a normal church would. Instead ntcc has a system of rules designed to impoverish the members while making the board mebers filthy rich. Tanya kekel getting free bread is like Donald Trump standing in a soup line to save a buck or two. I thought her daddy taught against welfare and a giverment mentality? Oh, right, I forgot; tanya is exempt from the rules; because "It's different when it's your kid."
DeleteJeff,
ReplyDeleteI don't know about Tanya being complex...since she is just a big fish in a very small pond, and only because she is Senior Pastor Davis adopted daughter.
She has never been challenged in any significant way, because at the end of the Day she was still a Davis, and could have confidence that any trial was only very temporary, and everything would turn out for her benefit.
No long term ministry challenges, no long term financial challenges...no lack, no want where she could not see the light at the end of a very short tunnel.
Senior Pastor Kekel talks about how they sacrificed to get where they are (and to have all they have), citing all the times they went home to eat a sandwich before going out to fellowship at a restaurant.
But, they were eating in a home they owned, and going out to eat in a newer Cadillac they owned, and coming home to a son who was in private school (or destined for it), and was involved in sports, etc. Plus, there was a good chance someone would pay for food/dessert for them at the restaurant. Just like we all did for Pastor Davis and company.
It is a lot different giving a months pay when you already have all these things, plus a steady job, and stable place to live for decades on end with no chance of moving, and a bank account that wasn't always on "E," than giving all your pay for the work of the Lord for those same decades of involvement, with no light at the end of a very long tunnel.
No comparison, not even close. But, Deb has nothing to complain about because she doesn't have a mansion like Tanya does. But, maybe we would be different if we had the Kekel's wealth. We would like to try, so we are. So far we are still the same people (minus the stinking Cult thinking), and I like the way things have turned out.
Leave your Cult before it is too late.
Gregory
I should have wrote: "...than giving all your pay EVERY MONTH for the work of the Lord for those same decades of involvement, with no light at the end of a very long tunnel."
ReplyDeleteGregory
Sorry Jeff,
ReplyDeleteI only read the last paragraph of your last post before I commented. Now I see you wrote the same things I did.
Gregory
"Was it a Chapter 7 or 13?"
ReplyDeleteis permitted to file banruptcy to get into the will pastors.dumping real estae, getting wife off job, downsizing are good reasons
Greg wrote...
ReplyDeleteShopping, decorating her home, visiting her parents, supervising the cleaning crew for her mansion, getting to the fellowship hall first to get the best of the pies and bread for her family. And there is probably a lot more she does.
Chief previously wrote...
Shopping a lot and spending everyone elses money was one of her duties. Looking other women up and down to see how they dressed was one of her duties. Watching over NTCC women while they cleaned her house was one of her duties and she was real good at that one. Picking out and diligently searching for abnormally fancy furniture for her houses was one of her duties
Chief said...
I think both Greg and I pretty well covered her duties and the descriptions we both gave were quite similar. Those are Tanya's duties.
Here is a contrast to the other "NTCC woman".
Tanya: Has other NTCC women clean her house.
Other NTCC women: Clean their own house.
Tanya: Buys very expensive and the most exotic furniture whenever she wants.
Other NTCC women: Buys used second hand furniture or cheap new furniture only with their husbands approval.
Tanya: Has a son who plays sports and goes to expensive private schools and attends a catholic college.
Other NTCC women: Forget about sports for their kids. Attends public schools and their children better attend the NTCS.
Tanya: Drives really nice cars.
Other NTCC women: With few exceptions doesn't have their own car at all and if they do it's usually a piece of junk.
Tanya: Has a couple FAT houses that are really large and she never has to move.
Other NTCC women: With few exceptions, lives in a crappy run down apartment or a servicesmans home and if they do own a house it's likely a small little shack. These women move all over the place and don't know the meaning of "stability". I know, I've seen where some of these people live.
Tanya: Never has to worry about money!!!
Other NTCC woman: Always have to worry about money so that Tanya doesn't have to.
Tanya: Not a care in the world other than her closet not being big enough to fit all her clothes.
Other NTCC women: Every care in the world to include needing new clothing to replace the used junk they bought at good-will so they can have something to put in their small puny little closet which is good enough for them.
Tanya: Spoiled rotten.
Other NTCC women: Anything but spoiled with few exceptions.
Chief said...
That is the Bible way right? I find all kinds of examples of people like Tanya mentioned in the Bible. Specifically read the Old Testament. I can think of one specific wife of a Hebrew King who very closely resembles Tanya. Any ideas who I might be refering to?
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteJeff wrote: "Tanya: Has a couple FAT houses that are really large and she never has to move."
ReplyDeleteI know you are thoroughly old school (don't ever change), but the way you use it, it is spelled Phat nowadays.
Gregory
Anon asked, "So, what are her duties in Graham? I heard she teaches, but what else? and of course the question still remains, so she may not have gotten a paycheck from her duties but, it seems she worked within the NTCC..."
ReplyDeleteD.U. said,
About the teaching...it is true that it is Biblical that the older women teach the younger women, but Tanya actually teaches a class full of women and men...soon to be preachers, pastors, etc.
We all know that she gets paid for it...though maybe not in the form of an actual paycheck...just like my husband: he was a pastor in NTCC, and his $150 pay per week was never in the form of a pay check...so what's the difference?
She also had to take time out of her responsibilities at home to prepare for her job, while other ladies were helping her "keep" her home...(while I'm sure their own homes needing keeping).
The issue is not so much whether she was on a pay roll or not. Many BS students babysit for pay, tailor clothes, teach piano, etc for pay. Why can't they work a job for pay? RWD says it is prostituting your wife...but what about the single BS students that are required to work...if that is not prostituting, then it is a double standard and makes their explanation for married women obselete.
I have done more for my household by working and making over $100 a day, than I ever did driving all over town to save $5 at a grocery store with coupons while wasting my husband's hard earned money on gas.
The ladies are allowed to be out all day at birthday parties, baby showers, volleyball games, trips to Seattle, grocery shopping, cleaning Tanya's house, thrift-store shopping, going to clinical research trials (to make a few bucks)...why not let them work?
D.U. said...
ReplyDeleteAbout the teaching...it is true that it is Biblical that the older women teach the younger women, but Tanya actually teaches a class full of women and men...soon to be preachers, pastors, etc.
Chief said...
Tanya has been teaching since she was younger and that scripture is relative. I understand your point though. The question is, what age is considered younger and what age older? There are sisters who are older than Tanya who don't teach. Not trying to split hairs but does that mean that a 21 year old lady teaches a 16 year old lady? A 30 year old lady teaches a 25 year old lady? A 40 year old lady teaches 30 year old? How about 50 year old teaching 46 year old? Is Tanya qualified to teach women older than her if they happened to attend the NTCS? Should the older women teach Tanya?
Once again, not splitting hairs but that scripture is very relative? I'm not sure what age is considered older but I am sure that Tanya has been teaching for quite a few years and was she "always" considered to be an "older" woman?
And yes, you made a good point! She also teaches men which is not biblical.
1 Tim 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
So the NTCC has totally broken New Testament standards on that one but they teach that it's a Sin to work on the Job outside the home. Double standards, plain and simple.
D.U. asked...
ReplyDeleteThe ladies are allowed to be out all day at birthday parties, baby showers, volleyball games, trips to Seattle, grocery shopping, cleaning Tanya's house, thrift-store shopping, going to clinical research trials (to make a few bucks)...why not let them work?
Chief said...
Because the NTCC leadership practices double standards and RWD is a male chauvinist PIG and so is Kekel. And the fact is, three threads back, I proved that the scripture "keepers at home" legitimately means something totally different than what the NTCC teaches. Because Tanya doesn't keep her own house and she has other women do it for her, she and SchmeKekel are totally violating that scripture. It's pick and chose with the NTCC leadership. I can't stand them double standard crooks.
It looks like all of your New York teams won today, Chief. Sorry, Matt, I was thinking that you would be enjoying life today, half way through the 4th quarter. I know you probably got pretty wet today, I hope you had a good time in spite of the Patriots losing. I'd rather watch my team lose, than to be sitting in Graham listening to Super Apostle Kekel, The Administrator of antagonistic insults, tell me how to live while he gets rich off of my money.
ReplyDeleteMy team plays tomorrow and does not have a very good track record against the Chargers, but we'll see what Manning and the boys do. Take care, ya'll.
DnA
Thanks Don. I'm playing in a football pool and I was doing fine until the Cardinals missed a 30 yard field goal with five seconds left, the Seahawks made that long touchdown pass, and RG3 ran a 70 yard touchdown and all three plays happend at almost "EXACTLY" the same moment time. I know because I have NFL Redzone and I was watching all three games simultaneously. I about had a heart attack, LOL. And the worst part was, my little boy had picked two of the teams who beat my picks (He picked the Bills and Redskins) was sitting right next to me laughing. Got to love it. He was all fat-lipped until those plays and he got real happy real quick.
ReplyDeleteNothing like sitting next to your Son on the couch and watching the NFL. Win or lose, it doesn't get much better than that. Neither one of us wanted the Seahawks to win. I'm not a Patriots fan but I can't stand the Seahawks and neither can my Son. That little dude knows football. He'll call the penalties before the Refs do and he'll get em right pretty often.
I didn't want your Pats to lose either MDR. Still better than listening to Shmekel bloviate.
So let me get thid straight. You have a devil vision that is so big that it splits the screen into four smaller devil visions? You are a sinner and you need to repent.
ReplyDeleteI guess as long as you are using it as a computer monitor, you'll be okay.
DeleteChief said,
ReplyDelete"I'm not sure what age is considered older but I am sure that Tanya has been teaching for quite a few years and was she "always" considered to be an "older" woman?"
D.U. responds,
I also think about older as in wisdom or knowledge of the Lord. Someone can accept the Lord at 20 and by the time they are 30, they have ten years experience and may be able to teach an older (in age) woman who, lets say is 50, but just learned about the Lord.
But, even with all that, the verse probably is talking about age, because in Titus 2:3, it says "aged women" but it says to be "teachers of good things...and to teach the young women..."
But...it doesn't say to teach them and their husbands in Bible school!
It says to teach the young women to love their husbands and children...
How many of you did she teach that? Not me.
So, they may use that to justify what she does, but they still cannot, by the Bible, justify why a married woman cannot work on a job.
ReplyDeleteAnd, haven't I read somewhere on this blog that the Kekel's own some business that does not even pertain to NTCC?
Is that true and does she have any part in the "work" of that business
Don said "Sorry, Matt, I was thinking that you would be enjoying life today, half way through the 4th quarter. I know you probably got pretty wet today, I hope you had a good time in spite of the Patriots losing."
ReplyDeleteI had an awesome time! Wow! Wow! Wow! What a game. This place has super crazy fans. The House was Rock-in! We had a hoot of a time. Don, I was not in the rain, our seats were mid way up in the stadium and that portion is under cover. That was the best game I have ever been to. I'm not as disappointed as you would think, cause I really like the Hawks too. And I know Brady is the come back kid. So, pray for me because I'll be right back there in a couple of weeks rooting for the Hawks when Minnesota comes to town. Have a great week everybody! Oh, and did I mention, Schmekel is a punk!
mdr
Double Ugh said:
ReplyDelete"And, haven't I read somewhere on this blog that the Kekel's own some business that does not even pertain to NTCC?
Is that true and does she have any part in the "work" of that business"
DnA said:
Not sure if Tanya conducts any of the day to day real estate mogul activities, but her name was on the deed. TK and VD both were listed on a deed for some prime real estate, in Graham. VD's name was only on the deed for one day, before it was taken off, but Tanya's name remained on it. Super Apostle Kekel, got much of his experience as an Administrator, by administrating real estate transactions. They both have moved from one mansion to another bigger mansion to another and so-on.
Maybe her name was on the deed to make her feel important, or to draw attention away from her scum bag husband; not sure, but real estate is what keeps them from operating in the red. If it were not for all of the real estate proceeds and the money that is raked in associated with all of this property, there would not be enough money to sustain it all.
TK and MuCK both are set for life no matter what happens. If every cult member would wake up and realize they were in a cult and stop supporting it with their tithe dollars, the Kekels would be filthy rich. If they consolidated all of their money that was tied up in real estate, they would have millions and millions. Not sure if their not for profit status would go unchecked in such a situation.
DnA
Man forget about the Seahawks MDR!!! I can't stand em. Stick with your Patriots BRU.... Any team that beats your Patriots you are supposed to despise!!!
ReplyDeleteI'm going to delete the word "Seahawk" anytime it shows up on this blog and replace it with "Suckhawk". That word is polluting this blog, LOL. Them and Tampa Bay. Can't stand either one of them. I will route for "ANY" team who plays against either the Suckhawks or Tampon Bay. Dude, they beat your Patroiots!!! Where is your Patriotism BRU? You are still my buddy MDR. Just wanted you to know that.
Next thing you know, the NTCC will start trying to have brainwashing services in CenturyLink Field. Folks are going to get brainwashed if you keep supporting the Suckhawks MDR. You are still my buddy though.
That's too funny Chili Cheese Dog, but, I'm going to have to bust you out just a little bit. True fans have a team that they love, and they stick with come hell or high water. There are teams that I hate and there are teams that I like. I like the Pats even though they slaughtered my beloved Broncos. But you, Chili Cheese Dog need to choose you this day, which team you support. You can't have three teams, just one. Thus saith the football gods. Having three teams allows you to be a fair-weather fan, and gives you a higher percentage of gloating opportunities.
ReplyDeleteI have been a Broncos fan since I was 7 years old. I have supported them through the good times and the bad times. If my wife would allow me to, I'd paint my house orange. I was greatly rewarded for my faithfulness in the late 90's when Denver won two Superbowls. I got to enjoy them because I had just left the borg and my TV privileges were restored.
Saying all that, I also agree with you on some points that you made. I also like the Seahawks, but they are lower on the pecking order of teams liked and disliked. The Tampa Bay Suckeneers are pretty neutral to me. However, I do agree that it is okay to hate certain teams. I hate the Dallas Cryboys and the Pittsburgh Squealers.
Matt, I'm glad you had a great time. I think I would have enjoyed myself up to the 4th quarter and then I would have lost the victory, but I also would cherish the memories. I wouldn't trade an opportunity like that for anything that the ntcc has to offer.
Don
Rev. Kekel said…
ReplyDeleteA Favor
Michael Kekel [mckekel@hotmail.com]
Sat 10/13/2012 1:53 AM
Hi,
I wonder if I could ask one favor; I realize you don't owe me anything and forgive me for bothering you with another email. Since they're plastering my first email to you all over the place to smear me again, could you at least post the rest of it, so that readers can see that we settled the matter peaceably? Tumioli is using it too, I understand. I'm trying to keep all those issues off my blog, as it's not for that. I appreciate it, thanks.
Bro. Bellamy said…
I posted a couple of weeks ago that I would not respond to Rev. Kekel’s email and that I would try not to post anything else, but Rev Kekel has requested that I post his last email to me. Therefore I have decided to post MOST of his last email. I will not post accusation by him against other people. But I will comment on both of his emails and set the record straight on his false assumptions and inaccuracies.
His email and my responses will take several weeks as I said previously.
To those that would try to say that I am double-minded. That is far from the truth. I am not doing this out of anger. I have forgiven NTCC’s leadership. I am doing this because Rev. Kekel requested it. He did not request that I comment on what he said, but I refuse to post what he has said without making my intentions clear and show the blatant contradictions and misleading statements that he has made.
Bro. Bellamy
Rev. Kekel said…
ReplyDeleteThe answer, as you say, is NOT "we are told to leave"
Bro. Bellamy said…
This statement is not true. Anytime Pastor Davis would give a new rule or reiterated an old rule, he would follow it up by “if you don’t like it then leave.” He would also say that “if you get saved then you would love it.” Everyone in NTCC know this to be true!!!
One Example of Many: When Pastor Davis would ask for questions, the kids in school sports issue came up several times. Pastor Davis related how he was at a Servicemen’s Home, and he was asked to move his motor home so they could play basketball. He then outlawed the playing of sports in Servicemen's Homes. He also shared (and it WAS a rule) that there could be NO board games played in the Servicemen’s Home. He said that we should be Soul Winning. He also related to what the kids had to wear in school sports as not being Christian attire. At the end of his answer to the question, he would say if you don’t like it… leave and if you get saved then you would like it.
Anyone that says that I am lying IS A LIAR. I have it on tape. I have several conferences on tape that were given to me when I was the Servicemen’s Home Director in Germany. Rev. L.D. Jones or Rev. Annis gave them to me; I don’t remember which one.
Pastor Davis is saying that he is the Man of God and nothing that he does should be questioned. He would always make the statement, “There is the right way and there is my way.”
Rev. Kekel stated in Spring 2010 conference that it was never a rule that children could not play school sports. I asked Rev. Olson why Rev. Kekel would make this false statement and his answer to me was that maybe Rev. Kekel did not know that it was a rule.
You mean to tell me that the CEO of the organization, and President of the Bible Seminary didn’t know it was a rule?
Bro. Bellamy
Rev. Kekel said…
ReplyDeleteThe answer is YES, if you love the brethren, no matter how you feel you move forward, suffer wrong, and others lovingly suffer YOUR wrongs.
Bro. Bellamy said…
I agree with Rev. Kekel that others have suffered the same wrongs that I have. That means NTCC have wronged many other people and they just want us to take it. Just because they have done wrong to others does not justify it!!!
They really believe that if you love God then you would allow them to do you wrong. I say this because Rev. Olson told me the same thing.
NTCC leaders will also preach that you are listening to the devil when you acknowledge the wrongs that are done to you. But this blog and others like it show that it is not the devil, but NTCC that are really doing people wrong. And when others read these blogs they see that it is not the devil but the church leaders doing wrong to the its members…
Bro. Bellamy
Rev. Kekel said…
ReplyDeleteNTCC is not God, and doesn't claim to be, and you know it.
Bro. Bellamy said…
The way that NTCC tries to control and individual’s life shows the NTCC is trying to be god. Only God should have the type of control NTCC DEMANDS.
Examples of NTCC becoming a Lord over God’s heritage…
You can only wear white shirts to preach.
You must wear a belt when leaving your house.
You cannot have facial hair.
You must ask permission to fellowship, call, or do anything with anyone.
You cannot get gas or go to the store after your seminary class.
You cannot refuse to leave where you live and buy a house without being rebuked from the pulpit and being told that you love your house more than God.
Seminary students have to ask for permission to date someone and can only have any contact with them during fellowship in a seat against a wall, and if Pastor Davis is out of town or decided no one can talk that evening then you cannot until he decides you can.
Wife cannot work on a job.
Preachers cannot fellowship with members.
A preacher should not go to secular college, because he is neglecting his ministry.
And there are many other rules that are so stupid and degrading to an adult.
Children hinder the work of God
You cannot ask another preacher to see if they can come and be a helper with you at your church without being rebuked openly from the pulpit at conference.
God has not given NTCC or any other church or person that type of control over ANYONE’S life!!!
Bro. Bellamy
Kekel asking a favor is like a snake flicking it's forked tongue before sinking its fangs in and releasing its deadly venom.
ReplyDeleteA word of testimony:
ReplyDeleteMy name is Veronica Medina, I was in NTCG later called NTCC for 13 years. My family and I left approximately 27 years ago. My husband and children have accomplished great things since leaving. My son attended the Air Force Academy, left as a Captain and now works for the Department of Defensive (he is a literally a rocket scientist) and recently completed his Master's degree, you can only imagine what his salary is. My daughter did a tour in the Navy, has traveled the world and is working on her Master's degree while making about 88 thousand a year for a government contractor.My husbnad has continuously climbed in station and status at his job. I am currently working for the University of Colorado- Denver in Addiction Research and Treatment Services. I have recently began a "Spiritual Caregiving Course for Clergy" in my church to help the church recognize and help families of addiction. The point I am making is this: We have as much or more (because we gained it through honor) than any NTCC leader has. and we all did it Giving all the Glory to God as well as continuing to serve Him.
Jesus Rocks!
Don wrote...
ReplyDeleteI also like the Seahawks.
Chief wrote...
If you don't like it here there is the door. They are the Suckhawks and don't forget it. My delete button finger is getting real itchy to delete that BAD, BAD word you typed on this blog. I was here first, I can't remember the last time I sinned, everything I do is by the direction of the LAWD and if you don't like it here, there is the door and don't let it hit you in the butt when you close your browser and put your mouse down.
I've promoted you General Bloggerseer Don Ho, so don't forget; that the SUCKHAWKS. Now, go pray through and get right with God because I'm one of the twenty four blog elders and you are just the General Bloggerseer so know your role Jabroni. (Just a little "The Rock" rhetoric for good measure). You are lucky the Suckhawks don't have to play your Broncos because then we'd see if you like them or not!
I'm only a fan of two teams not three Don Ho. The Giants and the Jets. That's it. I'm not breaking the football fan rules. Don't get all NTCC on me and say I'm breaking the rules. You are the General Bloggerseer. I make the rules. New rule. You can be the fan of every football team except one and my one is the Suckhawks. Go Broncos, Go Patriots and if you don't like it, there are two exit signs on this blog. The red X on the upper right and the plug on the wall. Don't let it shock you when you pull it out!!!
I'm learning how to be just like Old RW Dastardly Davis. All blogsters pay blog fees and give in the thread offering.
Veronica wrote...
ReplyDeleteA word of testimony:
Chief wrote...
And that was a very good testimony and proof that success outside the NTCC is absolutely achievable and honorable. You are also doing things to help others and regardless of their situation or how they got there, Christ died for everyone.
Christ didn't just die for people who have money to put in the offering and the NTCC leadership teaches that you should only reach out to people who have money to put it in the offering.
Take care Veronica and thanks for the good testimony.
hi all, thanks for the replies and insights on my BK Ch. 7 question....
ReplyDeleteEd, i ran into a bible school student a few months ago and it is ok now to go to a secular school. Imagine that one... now that my GI Bill has gone to waste.
About the bankruptcy, my back and forth comes from the verse that says the wicked borrow and pay not again.
I agree with chief and vic, yet, if a current law is against Gods word, would that mean God still doesn't recognize it ? Like gay marriage... it may be a law, but still wrong in Gods eyes....
so declaring BK is a legit law but could it still be wrong in Gods eyes ?
Just looking for other thoughts on the matter and i thank you for taking the time out for that topic.
lastly, off topic:
There is an event called "Tough Mudder" that looks like a lot of fun and challenging. It was designed by british SAS....
anyways, they are in nearly every state to have an event.
Ed, if i were with you in Ohio, that'd be a lot of fun to sign up and go through with you.
Chief, you'd probably get a kick out of it, i'm guessing,
talk to ya'll later !
Tough Mudder
"About the bankruptcy, my back and forth comes from the verse that says the wicked borrow and pay not again."
ReplyDeleteI think the distinction needs to be made with regard to intent. The wicked borrow without intending to pay back, and they don't. But the rain falls on the just and the unjust, and there are life circumstances that are insurmountable. Are people wicked if they have catastrophic medical events that put them a million dollars in debt, requiring them to file bankruptcy so they can obey the command to provide for their own household? A little common sense is useful, and the bible gives clear precedence for the concept of debt forgiveness. Look up all the references in the pentateuch regarding jubilee and the year of release, and you'll have peace of mind. Don't let false guilt keep you down if you've filed bankruptcy, and if you have a legitimate need to do so, you need not worry about God condemning you for it. He's the one that invented it!
One time they had me preach at the BS and I used the text "I am debtor" in a message I called "Spiritual Bankruptcy." RW didn't like the fact that I explained bankruptcy with the same rationale I've used here, and jumped up afterward to do a little damage control lest anyone think it was a viable strategy. His attitude sucks, and he's a hypocrite to boot, since he told
Curry to file bankruptcy himself.
I worked in collections for ten years and have attended numerous bankruptcy proceedings in court. There's a huge difference between a deadbeat and someone who's unintentionally in over his head. Even the old testament isn't as legalistic as NTCC.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteUnder the Old Testament law of God, Both David and Bathsheba should have been stoned to death for their act of adultery. But God had mercy and spared both their lives after David confessed to his sin. It's important to remember that the bible says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9
and
"And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more." Heb 10:17
We are after all living in the New Testament. When God forgives us we should forgive ourselves and continue on with our lives. There is no way we could ever pay back all of our debts and make everything right. If we could do it all through works or sacrifice there would be no need for a savior. Thank God for grace!
Chief I know that you have promised me a position in your cabinet, but let's be real here. The Seattle Suckhawks?It's going to take more than your delete key to get rid of me. You are going to have to hold down the control and alt keys and then hit the delete key, if you want me to go away. Besides I redeemed my self by coining the phrase, "Tampa Bay Suckeneers".
ReplyDeleteI'm trying my best here Chief, the least you can do is hold out an olive branch toward me. Come on man! Can't you see that I've been trying to work my way up to CEO of the NTCBOA? (New Testament Christian Blogsters of America) I want to be a figure head. I want to be like Mike.
I've heard of the Tough Mudder contest. In fact I work with a guy who is a retired 1SG who participated in the Tough Mudder contest. I'm familiar with it. Having said that I agree with Vic without reservation. Somehow I don't think grace is all about God condemning each and everyone of us for infractions or moral violations of the law or violations of understood moral Christian standards. If God doesn't give us a break, we are all going to hell because I haven't met a perfect man yet or for that matter anyone even remotely close. That is where grace and the blood comes in. I don't know who is going to hell and who isn't. R.W. Davis and his judgmental clowns claim to know but if I were to judge everyone by "THEIR" standards, every NTCC preacher I've ever met would be going to hell. Davis and Kekel are both crooks but I wouldn't begin to say that either one of them are "going to hell". That's for God to decide, not me. Thats one thing that I no longer, for any circumstances get caught up in, because it's way above my pay-grade.
ReplyDeleteNow if you feel that you've "stolen" money as a result of your Bankruptcy, and you have a guilty conscience, then by all means to what you can to pay it back. Dude that one is on you. I'll guarantee you've done worse that there's no way you can ever fix. I don't know the circumstances surrounding your Bankruptcy and it's none of my business and I don't want to know. All I know is sometimes folks need relief and the government makes provisions for such relief and so did the Bible specifically as it was mentioned during Old Testament times. I don't know a single church that doesn't somewhere in their teachings use the Old Testament as a model for current behavior.
The Bible shows, that from time to time, God does practice forgiveness and in some cases so does our federal government, and one of those cases is chapter 7. The fact is you have to live by your own conscience, not me. I live by mine and I sleep good at night. Have a good one.
Don asked...
ReplyDeleteI'm trying my best here Chief, the least you can do is hold out an olive branch toward me. Come on man! Can't you see that I've been trying to work my way up to CEO of the NTCBOA? (New Testament Christian Blogsters of America)
The Chief said...
BRO!!! Here is the deal. Before you, there were many blogsters who were once with us but they've departed, and no doubt would have remained with us had they been of us but they were made manifest in that they were not. So Bro, by default, just as it happened to L.D. Jones who would have not become an overseer had Denis not departed, you now are being promoted to CEO (New Testament Christian Blogsters of America). And the crowd said, hoorah.
Don't double cross me Bro, like Denis, and Barnes did RWD by taking my blog members and stealing half my blog tithes and offerings!!! You need to be like Olson and suck up to me all the time. Forget about your family. They better come to the blog conferences and I don't care if they are half dead. It's all about your testimony Bro. Just buy them a plane ticket and do it lovingly.
Now that I've promoted you to CEO of the blogesphere, I'm going to retire. You are to follow the example of Revved up Olson and call people no earlier than 2:30am for the weekly blog report so you can tell me how much money we have!!!!! You have to create the impression that you are soooooo busy that there is no way you could have called them earlier. Don't worry about them or the fact that their family most certainly is trying to sleep. They are "full time" bloggers and they can sleep all day.
Also, don't forget to insult everyone's intelligence and treat everyone like they are dumb and stupid. They are nothing but a bunch of "knot heads" anyway. Isn't that what Mike Kekel calls them? It's their fault they are broke.
They should have saved the 5 cents they had left over every two weeks after they paid me rent money (in cash), settled their world bloggings pledge, funded their escrow account that "YOU" will control, sent a decent percentage of there money up here to the Blogesphere HQ, payed rent on the blog building that "I" own, payed tithes and gave in the offering and bought all those clothes from goodwill and sorted out all those coupons.
ReplyDeleteThey should be rich by now but they are not because they must have sin in their life in that they haven't been faithful to the "Program of Blog".
Make sure you tell them Bro, if they don't like it, there is the Ctrl - Alt - Delete. Don't let their keyboard stick them in the butt on the way out.
Don said..." I want to be like Mike."
ReplyDeleteDon, you don't want to be a "little mikey schmekel punk face" do you? Cause that's exactly what that JERK is!
Let me get this straight, if you lived on the church ground in Graham {a minister only, of course}, then you where required to pay your rent in cash only. No checks for the NTCC, is that because of the "paper trail" why did the renters not make a issue with that? it is unsafe to carry around 650.00 around in your wallet. This is so strange, what did Davis say to justify such a strange request?
ReplyDeleteDavis claimed that he didn't want to deal with "bounced checks" so it was payment in cash only. He talked about it at conference one time. Davis talked about a lot at conference. In Graham, you could only pay tithe in cash. It doesn't matter what Davis said. All cash meant no paper trail. Everyone was supposed to trust Davis but Davis didn't trust anyone so he said which is why he claimed they could only pay him or his church in cash.
ReplyDeleteCongrats, Don on that spectacular performance of Peyton Manning and the Denver Broncos. Thats what I'm talkin-bout!
ReplyDeleteThanks Matt. I almost couldn't watch the second half, because Denver did so bad in the first half. I mean it was painful to watch. But in the back of my mind, I knew there was a chance that they could come back. The second half was awesome and great to watch. We just bought a 42 inch devil-vision and hooked it up just in time for the game and watched it in HD. I hope God will forgive us for watching this sinful football game. I guess if I was in the ntcc I could have gave that money to world missions and Kekel would probably have ended up with a 42 inch devil vision in his living room, (of course Kekel would have to hook his up to his computer). We had a really great time and what a game it was.
ReplyDeleteDnA
Rev. Kekel said...
ReplyDeleteDid you know, that Pastor (behind the scenes) felt that KC was going to pull out of NTCC when he got to Gainesville? That Pastor paid for his moving expenses (about 3k) anyway? Did you know that Pastor effectively disarmed both KC and RD when he told them to either purchase the Motorhomes or turn them in, because of their actions on the field? I think you ought to know these things for YOUR sake, not mine, not to stir you up, but just so you KNOW. THAT is the only reason I'm even bothering you, forgive me if it angers you or you don't believe me, but God knows. I'm not just 'saying stuff' or trying to slander anyone.
They weren't "done wrong", it was the fruit of their actions.
Rev. Kekel also said...
Pastor wanted both KC and RD off the field, because Denis wasn't the only one reportedly making subversive comments to preachers on the field. Therefore, Denis' office was limited from Ser. Dir, to one Divisional Overseer office. Remember Pastor telling people at Conf., "don't call him, (Denis) unless you are in his division?" That's why. KC ceased to be WMD and was going to start a church now.
Bro. Bellamy said...
I would like everyone that is currently in NTCC and was around during the Denis split to carefully read Rev. Kekel's statement above. If you were around during the split then you know that Pastor Davis said he knew nothing of what Denis was trying to do. He and Rev. Kekel were very angry that NO ONE told Pastor Davis what Denis was doing. They devoted an entire conference to this LIE (February 2004 Arizona). Now Rev. Kekel says that it was reported that Denis and others were "making subversive comments to preachers on the field." And that Pastor Davis wanted them off the field because of it. Someone is lying or both are lying; YOU DECIDE.
They sound like John Kerry. "We didn't know before we knew that we didn't know."
I can see why Pastor Davis never wanted the services recorded or to respond to those that make known what is really going on in NTCC.
Every time Rev. Kekel opens his mouth and try to defend himself he reveals the lies that he and others have told.
Bro. Bellamy
You are so right, Bro. It seems like mass confusion and contradictions come to the surface when they are in damage control mode.
ReplyDeleteTwo versions of every scandal in the ntcc exist. What actually happens, and what Kekel, Davis or Olson conjure up to gloss over the cold hard facts. I assume that KC is Curry and RD is Denis. Can you share what WMD is? If not, that's cool, We respect privacy of KC.
The ntcc can't just let people depart in peace. In normal healthy churches folks leave as they are led to do so, and many times it is with the pastor's blessing. In the ntcc when people leave, their names have to be drug through the dirt and they have to be publicly discredited and demonized so nobody will listen to them. Many people leave without ever saying an unkind word but Kekel or Davis will say that they were looking at porn or having an affair. The ntcc leadership is not worthy of the good people that they have run off. They will accuse us of smearing them when they are afforded plenty of opportunities to defend themselves but their actions are indefensible. They have a bully pulpit and their own blogs, yet they can not keep people from leaving. This is because they are trying to force the doctrine of works and giving enforced by fear and public rebuke.
Some of us may seem ultra critical and extreme, but that is because we are tired of sitting back and watching the ntcc leaders lie and abuse people. I have no patience for them and even though it may seem like we go to far, it is important that people stand up to these fake, money grubbing liars. They need to be called out for what they are.
DnA
I figured it out WMD = World Missions Director.
ReplyDeleteDon said....
ReplyDeleteI hope God will forgive us for watching this sinful football game.
Chief said...
If he doesn't forgive you, the Kekels are in trouble also because their son played football throughout high school. No difference and I don't care what those double standard hypocrites say. Not only that, Kekel the Conn Artist said the rules against sports only applied to B.S. (B**L S**T) students and you don't fall in that category Don so watch away. I shut the game off at the half it was so painful. I got up this morning to check the score and was pleasantly amazed. Congrats my friend.
Kekel wrote...
ReplyDeleteDid you know that Pastor effectively disarmed both KC and RD when he told them to either purchase the Motorhomes or turn them in, because of their actions on the field?
Chief said...
I knew that and in fact I've written about it right here on this blog. All that move did was piss off Denis even more. Denis told us about the motorhome deal while he was in Columbus. Davis didn't accomplish anything but make matters even worse with that move because it showed partiality concerning the distribution of motorhomes.
If Davis really wanted to accomplish something, he would have revealed the clown but that would have been like the pot calling the kettle black. Not only that Denis had to much dirt on Davis so Davis had to tread "lightly" on Denis. Oh, wow, I'm taking my RV back, Wooooo, Whoppie. A lot that did.
And by the way, the reason Kekel is still writing about the split 9 years after the fact is for one reason and one reason only and it's always the same; DAMAGE CONTROL. Boy isn't that something, the NTCC is still taking a lick because of that split or Kekel wouldn't be writing about it. And that's why I still keep writing about it and have continued to for quite some time.
ReplyDeleteDavis' judgment sucked because all Davis cared about was who could make him money. The only thing Davis did was promote folks just like him; CROOKS. Birds of a feather flock together. The NTCC is full of crooks and that's a fact.
Kekel said:
ReplyDelete" Did you know that Pastor effectively disarmed both KC and RD when he told them to either purchase the Motorhomes or turn them in, because of their actions on the field?"
DnA said:
Effectively disarmed them? Of what, their motor homes? Why don't they just call them Recreational Vehicles, because that's exactly what they are. Did they have loaded guns they were carrying around? Or perhaps they were defanged. They were effectively moved to other leadership roles where they could not be allowed to spread "lies".
Paying KC 3k was a bargain to get him away from the ministers that listened to him. We are going to punish you by taking away your recreational vehicle and we are going to give you 3 grande to leave the church so you can't influence anyone else to leave our cult.
Kekel should be asking you to not publish anything else, but the more he says, the more he damages the already tarnished reputation of the ntcc.
If they were spreading discord then why weren't they removed instead of being the assistant to overseers of 1/3 of the churches? That doesn't sound like a demotion. I spent a lot of time around them after the split and have never heard that until now.
ReplyDeleteBro. Bellamy said:
ReplyDelete"They sound like John Kerry. "We didn't know before we knew that we didn't know."
DnA said:
That is one of the best descriptions I have ever heard that describe the damage control that is taking place in the ntcc.
The issue really isn't about Curry or Denis. The issue is the way NTCC leadership has treated people over the years. Their "I didn't know" answer just further alienated many. If they had just said "I messed up, we have overlooked abuse by so many for years and are going to fix it" many would have forgiven it and went on. They instead chose to continue to cycle long after they all left.
ReplyDeleteRev. Kekel said…
ReplyDeleteSACRIFICE
Show me where I wrote that you (the brethren in general in the sense you are stating this) don't know about sacrifice? I'll admit that I don't, because we Americans don't know about sacrifice. All that I have given, is not enough. It pales next to the sacrifices of others who have died for their causes. We haven't suffered yet unto blood, and have no right to allow our hands to hang down and our knees to be feeble. (Heb 12) We have no excuse for fainting when we are rebuked. All of us are blessed and well supplied, including you. But I can plainly see that you have no clue about me; you judge me by what grumblers have said about me. Are you aware of what my Mom and I went through, making it through the 60's?
You really don't seem to know anything about sacrifice of time, or money, judging by your statements. I never got in debt, because I didn't WANT to. No one HAS to go into debt, no matter what is expected of them. I sacrificed to save; I sacrificed to GIVE, sometimes a month or two's wages, for missions and other church causes. I have spent all kinds of time and money to develop, pioneer, research, etc., over many years, that the work of God may grow and be better; that brethren may have better work environments; I work in His work on my OWN time, in addition to HIS time.
Bro. Bellamy said…
Rev. Kekel is deliberately trying to skew what I asked him. The “sacrifice” that I stated was in response to him saying on his blog that preachers did not sacrifice in their youth for their old age… AND HE KNOWS THIS. I showed how most preachers in NTCC give their very last for the work of God. They move from place to place every few years. The money that they do tend to save goes to them making it to conference, so in the end they wind up with NOTHING IN THEIR OLD AGE!!! They are not the ones living in new mansions and driving new cars every few years.
Bro. Bellamy (This too large for one post so it will continue in the next...)
Bro. Bellamy continued from last post...
ReplyDeleteHe then tries to make it seem like everyone is jealous of him. That is far from the truth. The problem is that he stands in the pulpit and preach and rebuke others for things that he has NOT done and do NOT do. He can’t say that he has pioneered a successful church. He can’t say that he went to a church that was failing and brought the attendance up. Even now the organization has a lot LESS people in it now than it has in a long time and this includes Graham. I didn’t get this from listening to anyone. You were berating us in your preaching and it made me think, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE? I then realized that you have done NOTHING other than what you were set up to do. PERIOD. You say all these things work, but you have NEVER worked them. (Pastor Davis preached that if you haven’t experienced it then you can’t preach about it.)
In the last conference that I attended, Pastor Davis made the statement that, “he would go where God wanted him to go if he had the money or not.”
Rev. Kekel said that I personally didn’t know about sacrifice so I want to share a little personal information…
When I was a kid for several years I lived with my Grandmother and so did another 20 grandkids and she had 2 young kids of her own(Yes, I have an aunt that is only 1 year older than I am.) This is a total of 22 kids. We lived 3 miles in the woods in a 4 bedroom house on a graveled road in Southern Illinois. Usually the only time we had breakfast and lunch was at school. Dinner was a half piece of chicken and about a cup of beans. That was it. We went to bed hungry and we woke up hungry. (Bro. Brill knows this story and that is where the save some chicken for me comment came from.) We had no running water and our heat and cooking source was a wood cast iron stove. We used an outhouse for a toilet and the only time we bathe (we used rain water that we caught in barrels) was Saturday night to be ready for church on Sunday morning. My mother eventually got a job working as a cook and we moved into a one room shack that my mother’s boyfriend built behind her house. One time the owner that my mom worked for told her that she didn’t have the money to pay her so my mother went for the first time and last time in her life to apply for welfare, because we had nothing to eat. The welfare agency turned her down saying she made too much money the month before. My mother vowed never to ask the government for anything again. When I entered the US Army, I gained 10lbs, because I had never eaten that much in my life. I couldn’t believe people were complaining. I was just glad to be able to eat.
I only mentioned this and I am somewhat embarrassed by it, because I grew up with next to nothing and that is why it was so easy to live off next to nothing while in the NTCC and give everything I had to the church believing that I was giving it to God.
So you see Rev. kekel I don’t feel a since of entitlement for anything. I work for what I have: I was raised that way. I have the ability at this moment since leaving NTCC to save $1,500 a month, because I am not giving all my money to NTCC or any church for that matter. I now have 2 SUVs. I have plans in the works to buy my second house. I take vacations and I still love God. I am far from perfect, but I am so much better being out of NTCC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bro. Bellamy
DnA said...
ReplyDeleteMany people leave without ever saying an unkind word but Kekel or Davis will say that they were looking at porn or having an affair...
Bro. Bellamy said...
Even if this is the case. The NTCC leadership cannot help anyone. I went to Rev. Olson with my problem and begging for help. He ignored me and when I called him on it he threatened to expose me.
DnA also said...
This is because they are trying to force the doctrine of works and giving enforced by fear and public rebuke.
Bro. Bellamy said...
They have NO love for anyone and the only thing that they can do is rebuke you. They NEVER stop and take time for anyone. When you can't be used any longer they are done with you.
Bro. Bellamy
Rev. Kekel said...
ReplyDeleteBTW, I never go to Jeff's blog because I'm a Christian.
Rev. Kekel also said...
I wonder if I could ask one favor; I realize you don't owe me anything and forgive me for bothering you with another email. Since they're plastering my first email to you all over the place to smear me again, could you at least post the rest of it, so that readers can see that we settled the matter peaceably?
Bro. Bellamy said...
Rev. Kekel first tells me that he doesn't go to Jeff's blog, because he is a Christian, but then he says that "they" are plastering his last email all over the place.
So someone told him that his email was on the blogs. Did he rebuke them and say that they are not a Christian for reading the blog? And if he is asking me to post on Jeff's blog and Christians don't do that then is he a partaker in other means sins by asking me to do so?
Another CONTRADICTION!!!
Bro. Bellamy
Mike Kekel wrote...
ReplyDeleteTherefore, Denis' office was limited from Ser. Dir, to one Divisional Overseer office.
Chief wrote...
Lets assume that Mike Kekel is telling the truth here and for the record, there is nothing wrong in this case with making that assumption. Then the NTCC has and even more serious leadership problem than I even thought!!
If they really had an idea that Denis was being subversive, there had to be a reason that the NTCC leadership didn't just FLAT OUT PUT A STOP TO IT!!!
Now please listen folks, I'm not the smartest (and that's not false humility either) but I'm no dummy. If the NTCC leadership knew this was going on and didn't completely remove Denis, they had to have something to lose by allowing him to stay around and I know what that was because Denis told me. Denis told me about the Davis removing his RV privileges and Denis also said that he had too much dirt on Davis for Davis to do anything about his actions. Now I've been writing this all along and this information isn't anything new but with Kekel's own statement now in existence, my previous assertions have been totally corroborated.
And that also explains why Sister Olson openly corrected Rev Olson when Rev Olson said, "God kept this all from Pastor Davis" and sister Olson replied, "That's not true, Pastor knew about this".
The NTCC leadership had an idea what was going on but they also had too many bones of their own hidden in the closet to legitimately take any real actions against Denis. Plainly put, Denis had them by the Balls plain and simple. Yes RWD took the RV from Denis and Denis told us about that openly during fellowship in Columbus right after church. Pastor Hunt was right there with me and therein lies the second problem.
Davis has created such an environment of fear throughout his organization, guys like Hunt were afraid to talk. And that goes back to one of Davis' notorious statements that he made openly in conference: "If you have a problem with one of my pastors, you have a problem with me and if you have a problem with me you have a problem with God"!!!
So with statements like that being made by RWD, how many folks do you think were really going to tell on Denis???!!! Hell, I told on Mayers and all that accomplished was almost getting me and my family expelled from the NTCC!!! Kinson shot me down and so did everyone else I complained to. All Kinson did was blow hot air. To sum it up, the NTCC leadership has a history of NOT TAKING RESPONSIBILITY for their actions and the actions of their pastors!!! Period. And the other problem is that the NTCS is not a REAL school and therefor NTCC pastors never receive real accredited, certified training and consequently they are often running renegade as leaders of churches. From a leadership standpoint, (other than the real estate purchases) the NTCC is one seriously dysfunctional organization.
Mike Kekel said...
ReplyDelete"BTW, I never go to Jeff's blog because I'm a Christian."
This is something RWD said in Graham when the Factnet was popular.
Kekel may be telling the truth, however a notable ex-minister told me that he would update Kekel on what was said on these type of blogs. So technically HE may not read it himself but there are those who update him.
By the way, didn't he go back and forth with you guys under the name "whirlwind"?
Double standards and that is only part of the reason why we left.
Chief - Thank you for keeping this blog active, keep up the good work.
Kekel said...
ReplyDeleteBTW, I never go to Jeff's blog because I'm a Christian.
Chief said...
To the contrary. Kekel doesn't come to the this blog because he is anything but a Christian. Real Christians don't just find faults in everyone else, (like Kekel does) they search for faults within themselves. Kekel doesn't like this blog because it makes him look at himself and Kekel hates to admit what he truly is; a spin doctor conn artist and a double standard hypocrite. Anyone with a functional brain can see this, especially when Kekel insults people by suggesting that it's always been ok in the NTCC to be involved with sports when we know damn good and well that it wasn't.
Kekel only says this nonsense to justify his own double standards where his son's sports involvement was concerned. In his own written words, Kekel even tried to justify boys and men wearing shorts when we all know good and well that it was never an acceptable practice in the NTCC. Kekel wrote that there is no difference between a woman wearing a mid length skirt and a man wearing mid length shorts. Well that's all fine and good other than the fact that the NTCC leadership has NEVER taught anything of the sort and I spent enough time around the NTCC to know.
And this is why Kekel doesn't like coming to this blog. Because he doesn't like reading about how much of a double stand hypocrite he is and frankly I don't blame him but it has nothing to do with him being a Christian because he is anything but.
D.U's Husband wrote...
ReplyDeleteBy the way, didn't he go back and forth with you guys under the name "whirlwind"?
Double standards and that is only part of the reason why we left.
Chief - Thank you for keeping this blog active, keep up the good work.
Chief wrote...
Thanks for the kind words and you are welcome. Yes, he did post as "whirlwind" but never on this blog using that screen name. Only on Factnet. It's quite possible that he's posted here anonymously but I have no categorical evidence proving such assertions.
And again as I've written previously. Kekel is anything but a Christian so his reason for not posting coming here is not valid.
BTW, I never go to an NTCC Church because I am a Christian.
ReplyDeleteGregory
I haven't gone thru and read all of the post's on this string yet but I have to say all I can think about is Proverbs 31 . . . . . NTCC says women don't work, stay home - b/c of this for almost 15 years I was there I lived in poverty and couldn't live comfortably. I saved and was as thrifty as possible but it's not easy when the husband is more worried about looking good in front of fellow hipocrits and Rdub instead of working enough hours to make it happen. Sorry - I still have a hard time with my feelings since leaving NTCC. BUT my point - Proverbs 31 - she worked . . . . this is all about the WORKING woman and being virtuous, making sure the family is taken care of. She also had servants. So if I work and I'm too busy to clean but I hire someone to help such as a weekly hose keeper (which I don't do as it's a single home now without a husband) but IF I DID, would I be sinning . . . . . NO NTCC I wouldn't be if my <3 were right with God, my family were being provide for, If I were doing all God called me to do - but then again, what do I know right - that's what Kekel would say - what do I know. Well I know a thing or two about what the bible says. They need to read and re-read Proverbs 31 until it sinks in. Then they need to read the rest of the bible again, and again and get what God says and not what they want it to say. . . . . I'm just sayin!
ReplyDeleteA few weeks ago I sat down with my oldest son to talk to him as we've been going thru a lot. I've had a lot of healing mentally & spiritually. My children still want nothing to do with church and God. . . . well 1 is opening up and occasionally prays but any way. As I was talking to my oldest, I told him I felt he might have ADHD or some disorder and I wished he would consider it and get tested. It was hard for me to say but I'm glad now I did. He has been so closed, short with me, rude, etc. He said to me with a painful response - I told you that years ago mom but you wouldn't hear of it. I broke down in tears. I remembered entertaining the thought years ago but the pastor I was under at that time thought of it as an excuse so I dismissed it. I didn't put my child's needs first! I thank God that God helped me to see and get out of there! I apologized to my son and we had an excellent talk and I know God used this for more healing. My son has had a much better attitude since! He talks to me with respect again, he listens to me again. We have easy conversations again. NTCC DESTROYS families! But God is helping me to rebuild. Thank you Jesus!
ReplyDeleteBTW, I never go to an NTCC Church because God loves me.
ReplyDeleteGregory
Rev. Kekel said…
ReplyDelete“We waited until we were married 8 years, and my ministry was established before making that CHOICE. God called me to Administrative work, it was not my choice, and only he that doeth the will of God will abide forever.”
Rev. Kekel also said…
I am in the work of God, and in His will for me.
All the Assoc. Pastors were talking in a meeting one day (KC, PAK, HV, TPJ) and I told them that the rednecks in Orting were never going to receive a black man in a leather jacket knocking on the door at night, and that it shouldn't be done that way. Some were actually doing this. Everyone knew it was about soul winning strategy, not race. I was not stereotyping, but I was saying that the people in Orting would stereotype. I was not only the Pastor, but the President of the Org at the time, and KC spun around and got in my face point blank saying with a loud voice, "well they'll just have to get used to it!"
Bro. Bellamy said…
I brought this part of the email up, because Rev. Kekel said that his calling was Administrative work. An Administrator is a Secretary, so why did he accept and get promoted to the position of Pastor of the Church in Graham? I bring this up because he rebuked me for saying I sacrificed in Servicemen’s work.
Another question is why is he the CEO if he is called to be an Administrator? CEOs hire Administrators, Administrators don’t become CEOs.
BTW Rev. Kekel it is none of your business what anyone wears. This is just another example of you all trying to control every part of everyone’s life. KC always dressed very well and took a lot of pride in his attire. He probably got angry, because he was tired of you butting your nose in everyone’s life. God NEVER gave any of you that type of authority. You all are just a bunch of tyrants.
I think I am done for now.
Jeff and DnA, I don't know how you do it? Just posting for the last couple of days has made me disgusted and weary.
Bro. Bellamy
ReplyDeleteI remember when people that knew the bellamy's would say mean things about them, that they were just all lovey lovey with rwd and the rest so they could be promoted.
Well, now we know the rest of the story.
I always remember them to be very sensitive and caring.
Getting back to the subject of tk and how she is giving "pastoral counseling" to the women in graham,
For many years and years rwd always preached and taught in the conferences that the woman was just there and in no uncertain terms was she to give advice or counsel to anybody in her husband's church.
How many times rwd said that she was there to "bake the cookie"
and "be a flower"
We were told over and over that the woman was to have no dealings with anything pastoral.
But like mdr said, we know who runs the show in graham.
I have personally seen TK - shall we say disagree - with MK in front of people and him say ok well whatever she says do - there was a group of us getting ready to do a presentation for one of the conferences to be held in Graham. . . . TK was rather, um, in charge.
ReplyDeleteEdward please check your Facebook messages
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI remember when people that knew the bellamy's would say mean things about them, that they were just all lovey lovey with rwd and the rest so they could be promoted.
Well, now we know the rest of the story.
I always remember them to be very sensitive and caring.
Bro. Bellamy said...
Now that is funny! I am still laughing. I never felt worthy to even be a preacher or pastor. I definitely did not think I would be promoted.
I have always been a hard worker even though Rev. Kekel said that I wasn't. I really believed that I was working for God. And I have always been sincere sometimes too sincere. I just believed what they said and found out they were just using me like they have so many others.
Bro. Bellamy
I will have to check them when I get home. Facebook is one of the few website that we are not allowed to use while at work.
ReplyDeleteBro. Bellamy
Edward wrote...
ReplyDeleteJeff and DnA, I don't know how you do it? Just posting for the last couple of days has made me disgusted and weary.
Jeff wrote...
I don't get weary very often. I do get disgusted but I'm getting kind or numb to it. I generally get disgusted when I read something new and alarming. Doesn't happen very often as I've heard it all for the most part.
Well, whatever privations Mike endured in Flint are unlikely to hold a candle to Edward's. I grew up in the middle class, and only learned about poverty in NTCC. It's a miracle we have anything today, but Edward is right--after being relieved of all of NTCC's manmade burdens, which we carried without complaint for years, everything is easy now. It's like running downhill with the wind at our backs.
ReplyDeleteTalking about how curry reacted when mck told the rest of associate pastors in graham that they have to use wisdom on how to dress in that area, well, for the longest time they preached about using leather jackets because of this and that, what about boots for women? this was discussed in a class in bs and on and on, but what I think mck was doing is getting curry's feathers ruffled,
ReplyDeleteand later say how he was disrespected and rw would be on the side of mck.
On a side note I heard that the best soulwinner in graham is archibald n he is black and he wears black leather jackets, so I don't think it was the jacket that curry wore, it was that mck wanted curry out of the way and bingo he found curry's sore spot!
If you don't click with the kekels you are out my friend.
BTW, I never go to an NTCC Church because it’s too expensive.
ReplyDeleteGregory
Gregory wrote...
ReplyDeleteBTW, I never go to an NTCC Church because I am a Christian.
BTW, I never go to an NTCC Church because God loves me.
BTW, I never go to an NTCC Church because it’s too expensive.
Chief laughed...
ROFLOL!!!! My wife and I both got a good laugh out of that one. Thanks Greg, I really got a good chuckle from all that. The first one was funny, the second one was really funny but the third combined with the other two was hilarious.
I have about 6 more I will post from time to time.
ReplyDeleteGregory
I have one that I personally think is the best, but that I will probably post last.
ReplyDeleteGregory
why is kekel concerned about ending peaceably if people that aren't in NTCC are considered his enemies
ReplyDeleteWe have only met your wife, and really like her based on her one visit to us when we were in GA.
ReplyDeleteGlad you guys escaped.
Gregory
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteSenior Pastor Kekel is concerned about everything except what he should be concerned about.
Gregory
My wife kicked it off with your wife pretty well during that visit. They are both very musically inclined and of course they had that in common. Your wife is a nice lady Greg. Very easy to get along with. Thanks for the kind words.
ReplyDeleteDeb is great. Hopefully we can visit someday...or you can visit us.
ReplyDeleteGregory
That would be nice Bro.
ReplyDeleteyes, bellamy is telling the truth. i was in the service where davis was all sad saying he had no idea what denis was doing.
ReplyDeleteVic said...
ReplyDelete"I grew up in the middle class, and only learned about poverty in NTCC. It's a miracle we have anything today"
Vic, I couldn't agree with you more. I wasn't perfect with my finances but was better off before we went to bible school with all the mandatory conferences. ntcc is very demanding on the pocket book that is for sure.
The Archibald's may be thought to be the best soul winners because they've brought the most people to church and won soul winning competitions and won free flights to conference and free stays in the lodge...
ReplyDeleteBut how many of those people actually got saved? Is soul winning how many people u can bring to church? To NTCC it is.
They don't win souls--they trap them.
ReplyDeleteD.U. asked...
ReplyDeleteBut how many of those people actually got saved?
Chief responded...
I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here so I would request that no one get offended with my response to that question. OK?
The NTCCs brand of salvation is so far from what the Bible teaches that I'm not sure if any of us "actually got saved" while we were in the NTCC.
Loving thy neighbor? How many of us truly did that while we were in the NTCC? I'm just saying.
Mandating that people pay tithe and when they do, that is evidence of them getting "saved". Really? Where does it say that in the New Testament? Where does it even imply that? Where does it imply in the Old Testament that tithe is supposed to directly result in someone getting uncommonly rich like Kekel or Davis? That is what salvation is all about?
Going door to door every Saturday and getting people involved in the same mess that you ignorantly are involved with yourself is evidence that you're "saved"? Raising your hands in church like every other misguided NTCC person does is proof of salvation? How about going to church five days a week? Proof of salvation when the church services are so often abusive in nature with personal opinions constantly being spewed across the pulpit? Here is one? Is going to the Kekel's house and cleaning it from top to bottom proof that you are saved when Tanya Kekel should be cleaning her own damn house and being the same "keeper at home" that every other NTCC women is expected to be?
Jesus never acted like the Pharisees were godly? Are NTCCers godly? Were we really that different than the folks we write about? We perpetuated the same mess that they still do! Just maybe not in the exact same way. Were we saved or seriously misguided or maybe some strange combination of the two? Can you be an abusive jerk while saying Jesus died for our sins and be saved? The Catholics profess that Jesus died for our sins; are they saved? So do the Baptists and the Lutherans and the Methodists and most every other Christian denomination. Is everyone saved who says they are a Christian and who says that Christ died for our sins?
Loving thy neighbor as thyself might be more substantial proof that you are saved but the NTCC doesn't display that kind of behavior. I don't know D.U.? The NTCC is so thoroughly screwed up, I'm not sure if any of us were quote, "saved". This is one time I'm compelled to use one of Davis' sayings. "Saved from what"?
Just food for thought. I can honestly say that I meant well while I was in the NTCC but as the NTCC leadership so rightly proclaimed: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions". What did Jesus say? Not everyone that saith unto me Lord, Lord shall enter the kingdom of heaven but he that doeth the will of my Father.
Were any of us really doing the will of the Father while we were all so thoroughly twisted in our minds with the NTCCs false doctrines? My answer would be "no" for what it's worth. But guess what? That's for God to decide, not me.
Wow, Jeff, I guess if there are no takers, here goes. Iwould say that there are people got saved in the ntcc, and I also believe that there are folks just as saved in other churches. God's plan of salvation was never supposed to be so difficult or convoluted. I agree that the ntcc has a twisted version of maintaining your salvation, but what is really sick about them is that they use God's basic simple plan found in the bible to get people saved. Then once a person has been truly changed in their heart, they begin to introduce them to their own version of salvation that they have concocted to serve their own purpose which is to use people to accumulate power and wealth. This is why Jesus dedicated so much time to exposing hypocrites. My opinion is that the church world is so corrupt that they have effectively hidden true Christianity which is supposed to be simple to understand, by complicating it with man made rules and diverse doctrines.
ReplyDeleteThe basics are simple. They are taught by many churches. I truly believe that myself and many others got genuinely saved in the ntcc. For me, what happened in my heart was real and not just some emotional experience conjured up by man. This reality carried me through many years of nonsense and ultimately opened my eyes to teach me one very important truth.
HOW NOT TO BE A CHRISTIAN
That is the single most important thing I have learned from the ntcc. If you want to learn how to be a hypocrite or how to use people or how to get rich off of people, than follow the ntcc's model. If you want to learn how to love and help people and live a Christian life, the only advice I can give for what it is worth is to follow the example of Christ in the bible.
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ReplyDeleteJeff,
ReplyDeleteDon't be so cynical about what faith and God can do in someone's life. God can save anyone in a bar or corporation.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteDon't be so cynical about what faith and God can do in someone's life. God can save anyone in a bar or corporation.
Chief said...
I wasn't being cynical, I was being real. There is a difference. I have a question. So once you get quote "saved", you can act however you want, treat people however you want, use and take advantage of people, be completely inconsiderate, mean spirited and break up marriages just because one of the married parties has no interest in having any part of the NTCC?
If that is what "salvation" is all about, I genuinely want no part of it. If that is what Christianity is all about, I don't want any part of it. We didn't all just dream up these NTCC HORROR stories that are plastered throughout this entire blog. This stuff is real and really took place.
The average everyday person who doesn't know the first thing about the bible is often a far better addition to humanity than someone like Olson who could care less if his own son in law is almost dead as long his own stinking testimony isn't affected because his son in law didn't attend conference sick as a dog.
I am not exaggerating one bit. The people who make up the current NTCC leadership are some of the most inconsiderate, abusive, judgmental, non-caring, narcisistic, greedy people who I've ever met in my entire life and once again I'm not exaggerating one single bit!! I could give example after example substantiating my assertion.
Sure, at one time in their life they may very well have accepted Christ into their heart, repented of their sins and become "born again". I got that. But what does the scripture say?
Mark 4:18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
You can "believe" and then after fall away, the Bible says that.
And there your have Kekel, Olson, Davis, Ashmore and all the rest of those crooks. They don't care about whats right or wrong anymore if they ever did, because guys like Davis and Kekel have a seriously sketchy history which has been chronicled quite often not only on this blog but quite a few other forums as well and we ain't all bearing false witness. I'd venture to say that very few if any of us are bearing false witness. We are reporting what we remember to the best of our ability.
So yes, because most of us were faithfully following the NTCC leadership, I wonder how long we went before all of us didn't allow the word to get quote, "choked" out in our lives that it was no longer fruitful and I'm not being cynical, I'm asking a sincere question and I'm being real.
If I truly believe that the NTCC is a harmful destructive cult, (which I do) then what was I getting people involved with when I was out quote "soul winning"? It doesn't matter if I thought I was leading folks to Christ if in reality I was really leading them to an abusive manipulating cult being lead by a bunch of greedy conn artists and conniving crooks. Sure they may or may not have got "saved" because the fact is, ONLY GOD KNOWS! But what I do know is that the NTCC brand of Christianity is one seriously warped system of stupid obsessive rules and mandates that aren't even Bible not the least of which is the teaching that it's a sin for a married woman to work on a job away from the home. IT'S SIMPLY NOT BIBLICAL and a lot of NTCC families are unnecessarily living in poverty because of it. They are opposing Proverbs 31 and these women are not virtuous as they suppose. And all this is done while Tanya works on a job and teaches men contrary to the bible?
Continued below:
Just because someone chooses to ignore all that, does that mean they are still "saved"? I can't say for certain but I have my doubts.
ReplyDeleteHey, I've accepted what I was the majority of time I was in the NTCC. An overbearing, judgmental jerk, Pharisee acting dude like the rest of them trying to impose a bunch of burdensome rules on everyone who was interested in being quote, "IN". I don't claim to be any better than the rest of them, I just claim to be out and no longer a part of that mess.
Chief said, "...judgmental jerk..."
ReplyDeleteI second that one! That was one of my major concerns just before we left the crooked org...
We had become so judgmental of others! We were taking after our first pastor and his wife, our examples in Graham like Kekel and those we spent time with. We were tired of being critical...that is what the NTCC lifestyle promotes.
M C Kekel said ""BTW, I never go to Jeff's blog because I'm a Christian."
ReplyDeleteKekel doesn't have to come on this blog,(not that I believe that) because his Fat, Wondering, Beady-eye wife comes on here. She tells him, and daddy(RWD), everything they need to know. M C kekel and R W Davis are professional liars. And one day they will be chaff that the wind blows away!
Is Tanya fat now?
ReplyDeleteI remember Mike saying over the pulpit in so many words that his wife was not going out to pioneer a church. In other words, she said that she aint going!!!
ReplyDeleteOf course she ain't going. She wouldn't have it and neither would RWD and for that matter, Mike wouldn't have it either. Thats for the peeons.
ReplyDeleteThe Kekels pioneer a church, it will never, I repeat, NEVER happen. They are going to stay in Graham in their swanky house next to Dad and take over when he dies. Plain and simple, and on another note, in all the 14 years we paid tithe, we never, I repeat, NEVER paid with cash. Paying tithe in cash is a new tidbit of information I read on this blog tonight. I did not know that the NTCC preferred cash for tithe, yeah, like I want to carry around 600.00 cash. Not likely. This is another ludicrous rule I had no idea even existed, but I guess being a member, I was exempt from such dealings. I as a member really was naive.
ReplyDeleteOh, Honey with the Money, It's not so much that you were naive; but you were really sheltered by the folks receiving your tithe. If you were paying $600 in tithe, they were not going to risk ruffling the feathers of the goose that lays the golden egg!
Delete"Is Tanya fat now"?
ReplyDeleteI'll put it to you this way, She aint been on no diet! And she's ugly too!
BTW, I never go to an NTCC Church because my wife works.
ReplyDeleteGregory
BTW, I never go to an NTCC church because my wife has a brain and it's ok for her to use it for things other than cooking, cleaning and having sex. Ooops!
ReplyDeleteMy wife is a virtuous woman. Proverbs 31 baby. She has a job! That was one of the qualifications for a woman to have if she was to be considered "Virtious" according to Proverbs 31.
ReplyDeleteDoes your wife have a job like my wife and Tanya Kekel? Ooops again.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAnon said "I'll put it to you this way, She aint been on no diet! And she's ugly too"!
ReplyDeleteAnon, you better watch out! "Little mikey" might get upset and have to take it out on the Graham congregation! Whats left of it! I hear he's real tough when he can hide behind his bully pulpit. He loves to try an intimidate women. He is such a wussy, dweeb!
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeletewhy is kekel concerned about ending peaceably if people that aren't in NTCC are considered his enemies
Bro. Bellamy said...
Rev. Kekel was trying to manipulate me into posting all the "dirt" he emailed me about other people.
I saw right through his plan and was not going to allow his lies to go unchecked. He thought I would just post his email to me without comment. He went into this long speech trying to show how other people were wrong, but in doing so he revealed a BIG LIE that he and Pastor Davis had perpetrated.
It is amazing how they always try to show themselves as the "victim" when they are actually the PERPETRATORS!
Bro. Bellamy
Alright more recent comments Reed I've left a couple of these whenever you get one haha write me at kindredaustin@yahoo.com
ReplyDeleteBro. Bellamy said:
ReplyDelete"Rev. Kekel was trying to manipulate me into posting all the "dirt" he emailed me about other people."
DnA said:
That sounds like something Kekel would do. I'm sure much of the "dirt" he has was personal and shared with him in confidence.
This shows what a manipulative creep Kekel is and that he was hoping you would make his entire letter public before you even posted much of the letter on line. He just didn't count on you being wiser than he was. Kekel assumes that he can manipulate people even after they have left his cult. In the ntcc, if they have "dirt" on someone, they use it to keep people under their control.
What they don't realize is that people that are out of the ntcc do not fall under his realm of control and brainwashing. Most everyone in the X-er community knows what Kekel is all about. I'm sure there is a lot of "dirt" in his own life. Anyway, he probably will find a way to get his message across. Kekel is too much of a wimp to post that stuff on his own, he has to manipulate someone to do it for him.
I'm sure Kekel would prefer to manipulate somebody else to publicly share his "dirt". If you are in the ntcc and you go to Kekel or any of the Pastors with personal matters, they might end up on the blogs. That's what you get for confessing your sins to a bunch of gossiping hypocrites.
DnA
Well I think Davis should be put in a burning brimstone seat. After we recived news of a brother & a close friend Killed in Action November 25, 2006. M. Reed calls Davis & wakes him from his holy nap gets his panties in a bunch then calls Reed back at 0300 hrs... what in the sam jhonson did that sack of bones do in his life to be so obscured & rude about a Soldier we know dying in combat. Pffff what a piece of work.
ReplyDeleteEdward wrote...
ReplyDeleteRev. Kekel was trying to manipulate me into posting all the "dirt" he emailed me about other people.
Chief said...
I thought about that and concluded that I post a lot of dirt on the NTCC leadership but I also realized there is a difference.
When the NTCC leadership puts out dirt on other people, it's almost always for the purpose of justifying themselves in an attempt to divert the attention away from their own dirt.
When I put out dirt on the NTCC leadership, it is always for the purpose of letting others know that they are wasting their time and money on that crooked organization. It's also to provide proof that people in the NTCC are following a bunch of conniving hypocrites. With me it's like providing a warning that a burglar has prepared to break into their house. A more appropriate comparison would be I'm warning people that the family member who lives in their house is the person who keeps stealing from them.
I'm not putting out their dirt to justify my actions. I'm not the one claiming be the answer for a "lost and dying world". The NTCC is anything but the answer to a "lost and dying world". If everyone in the world followed Kekel, Davis and Olson, the whole world would be lost. And that is precisely why their dirt needs to be made known. This is an attempt to protect people.
Anon said...
ReplyDeleteM. Reed calls Davis & wakes him from his holy nap.
Chief said...
That's good training for Old RWD. If Old Inconsiderate Olson can call everyone up a 2:30am for no more than a stinking report, then certainly calling to provide notification of someone's death is justified. Just saying.
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed your comment posted 10/17/12 @ 6:06pm.
The idea of spiritually dying on the vine is very apt to what becomes of the faithful who "get in" NTCC.
Eventually, the org itself takes the place of God in the lives of those who commit themselves to perpetuating the Kingdom of Davis.
The whole thing just breaks your heart when you finally see it for what it is!
My only hope is that we can be like Noah (not in building something) and each find grace in the eyes of God through Jesus - Who is The Building!
Just making an Observation.
Anonymous said..
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed your comment posted 10/17/12 @ 6:06pm.
Jeff said...
Thanks. It's good to know. I do a lot of typing and I'm not the most grammatically correct dude there is, that's for certain.
All pastors with & that have left ntcc are wrong in all means & better make sure the people they bullied are appologized to cus alot was thrown in their face that nowthey go back on haha cmon panzies
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteAll pastors with & that have left ntcc are wrong in all means & better make sure the people they bullied are appologized to cus alot was thrown in their face that nowthey go back on haha cmon panzies
Not to be insulting to you, but don't you think we all realized what we've said and done to those we've pastored in the name of NTCC! That's the first thing that comes to mind when you leave, and I'm sure it haunts each pastor, after their departure.
Deborah
Deborah,
ReplyDeleteThe pastors are not alone. I was around the NTCC long enough to fall in the same category; just in a different capacity. What haunts me the most is how I acted toward my family. Sure I could be a real judgmental jerk toward others, (which was the case) but I can't ever make up for the way I acted around my family. I'm sure I was no fun to be around. I was so full of the NTCCs CRAP that I wouldn't even watch Jeopardy with my Mom when I went to visit my parents at their house. I have eternal regrets about so much where my family is concerned. I'll never get over the guilt.
Don't misunderstand, I'm no basket case who's become psychologically unstable as a result but the guilt never goes away. I hate the way I treated my Mom and Dad. Unlike Grant Kekel, my Daughter lost years of her childhood because I was not a hypocrite and I actually did my best to follow the NTCC guidelines unlike Mike and Tanya Kekel. I still have letters from two or three different NTCC pastors which stated that it was against our religious beliefs for our daughter to participated in Gym class because she couldn't do what the other kids did while wearing a dress!!! Makes me sick especially when now, I really know that Deu 22:5 actually means and it absolutely doesn't mean that a woman can't wear pants.
It means that a woman shall not wear a "weapon or armour", 1) implement (of hunting or war) that pertains to a "Strong man or warrior". "unto a man" means, (strong man, warrior (emphasising strength or ability to fight). LOOK IT UP. I just copied and pasted it it directly from the Strongs Concordance Hebrew Lexicon.
The NTCC has it ALL WRONG and because RWD and Olson and Ashmore were all to sorry to admit they were wrong, young children like my daughter missed out on what could have been some real fun times during her childhood and I accept responsibly for it and there will ALWAYS be guilt and I can't stand the NTCC leadership. They must have figured out what Deu 22:5 really mean long before I did but Davis is a male chauvinist PIG.
Now I've been posting this for a couple years now but yet still I see NTCC women right here in Columbus Georgia running around in dresses because they think it's a sin not to. If you want to wear a dress then FINE but don't teach that it's a sin for a woman to wear pants when you know damn good and well that it's not because I've proved it time and time again. And that is what burns me up!!!!
NTCC people read this blog and I know it because I have one bad hit counter hid on this blog that tells me a whole lot more than many folks know. I don't even check the hit counter now but when I used to, I got hits from towns and cities where there were NTCC churches and sometimes the same URL would show over and over and then someone would post and I knew it came from that URL and sometimes for a variety of reasons I could somewhat logically conclude who the person probably was who was either posting or clicked links on this blog. One click from someone on a thread would leave me evidence especially if they posted a message.
Having said that, it's probably been close to 1 year since I've even looked at the data on my hidden hit counter. I have two hit counters linked to this blog. One you can see which doesn't provide "much" data (unless I paid extra money) and one that does provide "much" data, and with that one I don't even have to pay any extra money.
Bottom line is, NTCC people are reading this blog and the NTCC leadership is smart enough to know that they've got Deu 22:5 WRONG and Tts 2:5 WRONG and they know it. So what is the end result? You WOMEN are getting screwed, (no pun intended). And your young daughters are missing out on some real fun activities because you are making them run around in a dog gone DRESS.
Try gymnastics wearing a DRESS? Try running around in a dress when it's flying up all the time and the little girl is showing her panties!!! And if she is wearing leggings underneath, the NTCC, specifically Mayers taught that was a sin also. My wife had some on under her dress working in the yard one time and Mayers let her have it on that one.
ReplyDeleteYou NTCC leaders SUCK and you don't have enough "Christianity" or "Godliness" or backbone to go up to RWD, Olson or Kekel and tell them to their face that they have Deu 22.5 and Tts 2.5 all wrong!!! So the women keep getting screwed because you guys are too dog gone WEAK!!!! If I wouldn't have been so blindly "obedient" I wouldn't have ever follow their stinking guidance and my wife would have had a job long before she did and my daughter would have enjoyed gym class and other activities.
But you know what? It all worked out!!! If Mayers wouldn't have been abusive and misguided I would have never moved to Columbus and if I never moved to Columbus, I wouldn't not be in this absolute great situation that I'm in right now. So it all worked together for the good cause Brother my life is great and I'd never be enjoying what I'm enjoying right now had I still been in Atlanta. Thank God for Mayers abusiveness and I mean that with all my heart.
It really does seem sometimes that God "may" have worked it all out. I stood up to a tyrant and as a result I am REALLY Blessed and you can interpret that however you want.
Edward said "It is amazing how they always try to show themselves as the "victim" when they are actually the PERPETRATORS"!
ReplyDeleteHey Edward, target,target, cease fire!! It's amazing seeing these guys for what they really are...a bunch of conniving HYPOCRITES!!
mdr
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteI also have a "hit counter" that only I can see (probably the same one you use). It tells me how many page views, and traffic sources. I'm amazed what people are Google-ing that brings them to Deb's Blog...e.g. specific search parameters...people are seeking "by name" targeted information about the Cult's leadership, etc.
These are searches by people that know our Cult, or that are very new and seeking information (I assume this is to see if they want to get involved).
We also get about 6 first time ever visitors per day to Deb's Blog. Almost all of our hits come from areas that have an NTCC church.
We don't get a lot of comments, and we don't get as much traffic as you do, but the traffic we do get is just the type of traffic I want...from people still trapped, and people looking for information about our Cult.
Many of our visitors also look at the archived pages of stuff that Senior Pastor Kekel deleted off of his Blog.
People are reading the Blogs and that is all I want. People are getting the information they need to make their own decision, and this is something the Cult would never allow its captives to do if they could stop it.
The autonomous decision we have all made to archive things, share information, and keep holding the Cult accountable for their words and deeds has been the absolute right decision these past 8 years.
We are winning. We are not winning by lying, spreading partial truths, by masking our true selves, and hiding in the darkness...but by sticking to the facts of what we have all personally experienced, by what is verifiable, and that is substantiated by a multitude of witnesses both inside and outside of the Cult.
Gregory
It might be the same one. I can see what town or village someone is clicking from. It even shows street but that's not accurate because it gets my street wrong but it doesn't get the area wrong. Well, when you have an NTCC church basically out in the middle of no-where and I get frequent hits from that area, it becomes pretty obvious who's checking the blog. Especially when they post something that only someone who's been around for a while would have any knowledge of. Especially when it's a lady and she's disgruntled. Can you spell, "pastor's wife"?
ReplyDeleteAt one point, MDR, Don, and myself had pretty much narrowed it down to one pastor's wife who seemed to be the most logical person who would be on this blog from that particular area where the reoccurring hits were coming from. Who knows but at that time when I was checking my hit counter stats almost daily, it seemed apparent that quite a few people from the NTCC were on this blog. All you had to know is where the NTCC churches were at and there were the hits.
Then one time during conference, the majority of hits were concentrated around the middle Missouri area. Go figure. No doubt Gregory, the word is getting out.
I for one regret all the years I spent running around uncomfortable in a skirt, {I don't care for dresses} I remember being cold, always uncomfortable and always longing to feel comfortable. Wearing a skirt every day is not comfortable in the least. If women say it is they are lying. I did this for some 14 years, man do I regret all that time spent trying to "look" like a Christian, how ignorant I was...running shoes and skirts, flats and skirts,high heels and skirts. Hated it.....yes, I am a little bitter. Oh well.
ReplyDeleteI'm not so certain what you are feeling is "bitterness". I think its anger and rightly so. Jesus was angry with the money changers in the temple and he started flipping tables. Jesus got upset with the Pharisees / (NTCCers) of his day and stated calling them names like "whited sepulchres", "generation of vipers" and hypocrites. Jesus was not bitter. He was mad, upset and angry with those hypocrites and I'd be upset with the NTCC hypocrite leadership also if I ran around uncomfortable in skirts for 14 years while the Bible clearly doesn't mandate any such practice.
ReplyDeleteNo need to feel guilty about that one and I don't think you are carrying around bitterness. I think you are upset with those crooks just like me.
Attention all Blogsters,
ReplyDeleteIt has come to my attention that some of you are not happy about being woke up at 3:00 in the morning to give me your Blogster report. Many have expressed some discontent in the past about receiving calls late at night.
I get my marching orders from the Head Chili Cheese Dog. Now people are questioning the dress rule and other rules.
I never denied it at all
I'll say it again; THERE WERE RULES AGAINST SOME OF THESE THINGS. I DO acknowledge that, but do NOT acknowledge any mistakes, because I didn't make any.
I have three jobs 24/7 CEO, General Bloggerseer, and Dean of the Blogger school. Recently people have been griping and complaining about me not acknowledging my past mistakes. sports, tv, internet, video games..... and said, "instead of repenting you lied to yourself and said these were always ok."
There's something that everyone needs to understand:
I do not make the rules, and have only recently had opportunity to affect them. In the past I have only been in the unfortunate position of having to enforce them. That doesn't mean I agreed with them. If so be they were mistakes, they weren't mine.
So put that in your pipe and smoke it. After all, they were only policies, not rules.
And y'all know what ole R-dub says. You people make the rules. So all you fault finders out there, I know you probably mean well, but don't be angry with me. I "ain't misbehavin' " (the title of a Jazz classic I believe). I sincerely hope that you will now apologize since I take you for complete fools and idiots because you spoke without knowing the situation, but that's up to you.
Sincerely,
Blogster Extraordinaire
So you admit THEY WERE RULES, not policies!
Deletei regret mistreated my spouse, children, and fellow christians from other churches.
ReplyDeleteDon and Ange wrote...
ReplyDeleteAttention all Blogsters
Chili Cheese Dog wrote...
ROFLOL, LOL, LOL, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!!! That was great. You guys make my day!!!! You want to know the sick twisted part? This is actually stuff that Kekel has written. Good grief I don't know how folks can still follow that dude. Don and Ange, you guys are the greatest as you always give me a good laugh. I hope you both have a great weekend and enjoy the football.
Your friend,
Jeff
Anon said... "Well I think Davis should be put in a burning brimstone seat. After we received news of a brother & a close friend Killed in Action November 25, 2006. M. Reed calls Davis & wakes him from his holy nap gets his panties in a bunch then calls Reed back at 0300 hrs... what in the sam jhonson did that sack of bones do in his life to be so obscured & rude about a Soldier we know dying in combat. Pffff what a piece of work".
ReplyDeleteAnon, as Davis put it, he wanted me to "let that man die." Well, that's not going to happen. We have kept in contact with Daniel's mother and we are flying her in to WA next month for a few days and going to give her the "Seattle treatment"! We are all so excited! For those of you who don't know, her son, Daniel Marshall Morris gave the ultimate sacrifice on Nov. 25, 2006, in Iraq out on a combat patrol. He was a fine Christian man and a good father to his daughter, and his commander said at his memorial service, "Daniel is now in heaven enjoying his eternal life."
He was a huge Peyton Manning/Colts fan, so you can imagine our "back and forth" about the Pats and Colts. We thank God for SSGT Morris and the sacrifice he made for the Iraqi people and our great nation.
Doing our part to keep the memory alive! mdr
Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete"Alright more recent comments Reed I've left a couple of these whenever you get one haha write me at..."
Hey Austin, I wrote to you and titled it "test run" in the subject line. It's good to hear from you. E-mail me and we can exchange phone numbers.