NTCC churches have a history of being run like "prisoner of war camps".Thread #1 I am interested in having folks tell of specific instances where they have been unnecessarily, verbally abused by Pastors while attending church services with the NTCC. I am specifically looking for examples of abuse while church service was actually being conducted.
The reason that I am starting my blog with this particular topic is because I feel that the specific practice of "verbal abuse” is the most common mistreatment of church members inflicted by NTCC Pastors. The very practice incorporated by NTCC Pastors, of deliberately using their pulpit as a means to verbally attack their church members, is totally unacceptably. It is one of the primary reasons that my family left the NTCC permanently.
I will start this thread by giving my own personal testimony.
My wife was a Sunday school teacher in Atlanta Georgia while Mr. Mayers was the pastor. She was clearly the most faithful and organized of the few Sunday school teachers in the Atlanta so called "church". Mr. Mayers would hold evening meetings with the few Sunday school teachers regularly, and in the process of the meetings, he would consistently have grievances with the Sunday school teachers conduct. Now my wife has taught College ROTC and she has been a full time first Grade teacher having never been reprimanded by any her supervisors to my knowledge, but Mayers would constantly find something wrong with what she and all the other teachers were doing. Plainly put he was impossible to please.
He wouldn’t even allow me in the church building and I would have to stand outside, late in the evening and in the cold while the meetings were being conducted. He obviously didn’t want me to hear what was going on because I would take up for my wife and he didn’t like that one bit. My wife got sick and tired of his critiques to the degree that she no longer wanted to teach Sunday school in his church and I didn’t blame her. The other problem was that he had a married couple, who were both NTCC ministers, (the Cantrells) who would also teach, and the pastor would hold them to a different set of standards than he did my wife and the rest of the ladies.
This was a perfect example of an NTCC pastor who regularly used his pulpit to verbally abuse his church members who wouldn’t conform to his “double standards”. I look forward to reading your examples of the same type mistreatment. I'm sure mine is not an isolated incident.
Jeff
Original post 3/5/09
39 comments:
This experience is a classic example of what happens when you have a pastor who thinks he needs to "train" the workers he has working under him. He knows the person he is "training" has potential, but he doesn't quite know how to bring it out. There is some little problem with the person's personality/character, but he can't put his finger on it. He is not a trained psychologist, yet he feels he needs to do the job that would require him to be one. The result is a constant verbal beat down. This is totaly unacceptable and may go deeper than what I have explained here in brief.
At any rate, all of this is rooted in pride. The pastor wants to be able to point to the workers who come from his work and say: "They were trained under my ministry." This is wrongheaded thinking. The way the preacher needs to handle it, in my humble opinion, would be to pray and seek guidance from God to train the workers under him. He is to do what God leads him to do in training them and no more. If the workers accept the training and are bettered by it, well, but if they refuse the training, he has done his job.
The part where many pastors fail is when they do what God requires and it doesn't yield immediate results, so they get frustrated, and desireing to be spoken well of at conference, resort to verbally abusing their workers into compliance.
I would agree, maybe there are some who don't really value the members the way they should. It has been less of a care for their souls than for how they will look when they get to conference. The excuse they give when someone leaves is "they didn't want God anyway." A preacher must first examine himself when someone leaves, not just chalk another one up for not wanting God. A real pastor will consider the fact that he might be the one who is wrong. It's called humility.
I Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
Brother Jeff. I just sent you an email and I remember those sermons as clear as day, and my wife went through it right after you and your wife left. Abuse, abuse, abuse like I have never seen or heard in my life. People who do this behind the puplit need to spend a few days behind bars. It took my wife years to get over.
I sent you an email back. It is quiet a surprise to hear from you after all these years. If you feel comfortable in doing so give examples of what you went through. It is necessary for people to know.
We need to do all we can to keep people away from this church. It can become a devastating experience. Also under Name/URL come up with some kind of screen name so people have an idea who is posting even if it is not your real name. Call me at 404-405-7842. If you don't get me just leave a voice mail and I will call you back. I'm sure that my wife would like to talk to your wife.
Jeff.
Thanks for your message and I'll give you a call soon. To expound on my last post (and this will surely give me away, but I know who protects me) I was one of the only naval officers in the NTCC church so I was a rare breed. Basically, like most of the young GIs they scout out, I was at my lowest point and romanced into the church and got saved. I had no idea what their agenda was until about a year in. I was convinced this was the only way. My wife and I started attending NTCC in Georgia and that is where the real abuse happened. My wife was beaten almost every service from behind the pulpit about pride, and who does she think she is (b/c she's smart). We were hammered for ever being a few dollars shy on the almight TITHE and OFFERING! It was preached over, and over about how the woman was supposed to stay at home, and not work...That is until they found out what my wife made ($$$) and it all sudden became the exception to the rule for her to work. When my time to relocate for the military came, I was asked to leave my wife behind for 2 YEARS to continue to work and pay the TITHE and OFFERING while doing Sunday school. After I spent two years out at sea with my wife as my only support from home, and under the rule of an abusive and homosexual captain who hated Christians we returned to the US and bumped into an ex-NTCC minister, who I thought was a friend, that spread around that it looked like the devil got the best of both of us..I was protecting your right to collect the almighty TITHE and OFFERING while serving in a foreign country under a dictator rule much like my ex-NTCC pastor. At first when I left I was told by Mr. Abusive himself that if I left him I would be right back out in the world. That lasted all of 3 seconds before it solidified my belief that it is God who protects me while I go out into the world. My advice to any young people who join this organization is that if you are now saved, and free in Christ don't stay in a church that you cannot grow in. If you want happiness for you and your family while serving than join a Bible believing church that accepts and loves you for who you are, and has no AGENDA. These people do NOT care about you and eventually you will be TOLD from behind the pulpit that you are just a church member. Wait until you think you are really in, and head off to a conference. The ministers won't even converse much with you, and you will sit in another restaraunt...The same ones that call you brother so and so on your soul winning ventures. For those of NTCC who are reading this and now know who I am, well the devil didn't get the best of both of us. We are happily married, loving Christ, and we now have genuine friends that love and serve God. Yes it does happen outside NTCC. In Christ's Love,
Truly Free
I need to clarify one area on my above post. When we returned to the US, it was an NTCC minister we bumped into (as in current not ex) that was a typo on my part and a big difference.
TF
Speaking of pride in the pastors of the outlying churches... I don't want to give too much information lest I give away who I am (sorry, but I'm still working on a relationship with my parents who are still in).
When I was young, about 7 or 8, my dad was called to help a certain pastor in another state. We went and I was so excited because the pastor and his wife had a son in my age group. Younger by about 2 years, but a good playmate. Every once in a while, we would get in trouble together, such as fighting or whatnot, and the pastor would bring me to my parents as though it was all my fault. Once, this happened at my house, and my mother gave us both a firm reprimand "This is not how good little christians behave!" When the pastor heard about it, he was furious. He told my mother that she would "show respect to the son of the pastor!" I couldn't believe he had told my mother to show respect to a 5 year old! What was that all about?!
jm
Jeff,
Is there an email you can be contacted at? I'm not much of a phone person(anyone who knows me well knows I am not much of a phone person even though I do have a good plan on my phone LOL, my husband usually uses most of the minutes on our family plan though). Plus I'm pretty busy with school, church, kids school, etc. So I usually do not have time for long phone conversations (though I have been known to make time). Or would you prefer that I call you? And if so what times are best? I am on mountain time so please keep that in mind when giving me times to call. Pacific time is an hour behind me, Central time is an hour ahead of me, and eastern time is 2 hours ahead of me.
I just have a question for you. You may or may not be able to help me with. But I feel you are the person to talk to regarding this question.
Thanks,
Angie
Brother Jeff,
These are some good testimonies you have on your respective blog IAW the abuse suffered at the hands of these ministers.
I fear we only know and see the tip of the iceburg. The problem with iceburgs that makes them so dangerous is you only see 1/10 of how big it really is (out of the water). The remaining 9/10th is hidden and we may really never know the full extent of the damage caused by this organziation.
On the military side of the house, I was thinking, all it would take is one brother in the military who has been ripped off financially to invoke a Congressional on these NTCC folks to start a Federal investigation by their congressional man or woman that represents them on Capital Hill to get money back that they gave naively.
Thanks for your outreach / post!!
Bro Johnson
Bro Johnson said...
Thanks for your outreach / post!!
Jeff said...
Sir thanks for contributing. There is definitely a need. I have heard from so many people who have been hurt by the NTCC that it is becoming astounding.
Truthfully, I feel helpless when I think about it because so many lives have been messed up by the organization and I am not exaggerating. A young lady called today that told me stories of the abuse in the NTCC that would almost make you cry. It is sickening. I guess for now all that I can do is keep trying to get the word out and if we all work together we can do this far more effectively. Thanks for the help Bro Johnson.
Respectfully,
Jeff.
Angie said...
Jeff,
Is there an email you can be contacted at? I'm not much of a phone person
Jeff said...
What is funny is that I am not much of an email person but that is not a problem. Here it is.
jccfwc@yahoo.com
Let me know on the blog that you sent an email. I check this blog way more than the email.
Your posts are good. It is good for you to be here.
Jeff.
Jeff,
sent you an email. subject is "This is IdahoAngie"
Look forward to hearing from you.
God bless,
Angie
Jeff,
Sent you another email. Just letting you know here. Just to inform you of when I should be able to call.
No need for a fast response. I should be in bed BUTTTTTT... daughter has a swim class after school tomorrow with her after school program (they have tutoring but every wednesday they go for swim lessons which I think is neat) and she waited until the last minute to tell me (the second I said it was time for bed) she needed her swim suit washed. So up doing laundry LOL.
God bless,
Angie
Angie:
Thanks for the update. We will talk later. Time for me to hit the sack.
Jeff.
Jeff,
I have to take issue with what the first person responded on your thread. Your "pastor" is a classic example of someone who has absolutely NO business being in the ministry trying to be an NTCC minister. NTCC's so-called Bible college gives people very little real training in the either the Bible OR ministry. It is very superficial and does not train people to be ministers of God. What NTCC trains people to do is be cult leaders! Once "trained" (really brain washed), they go out and try to recruit (not pastor) men and women to NTCC. there is no Love, no Concern, No real care-- it's just "get with the NTCC program, or else!!.
You and I and everyone else know that Jesus would never act like these people. Jesus would have rebuked NTCC just like He rebuked the Pharisees.
Better training or praying to God is not the answer for these abusive preachers-- the answer is they need to stay away from the ministry and really get right with God the first place.
AXP (another ex-preacher).
OK, here is an abuse story that happened to me. There are a ton, but I'll start with this one. I had just gotten married. My wife had not been in the church very long (maybe 6-12 months). She was working on a job, and now had to quit it since she was now married (per ntcc teachings). I was only making $5/hr and she was making more than that. In typical ntcc fashion we were completely broke and just moved into a very small apartment with no furniture-- so we needed every dollar we could get for our new life together.
We had been married for about 2 days (with no honeymoon-- which is also typical ntcc). We went to church, I am sitting with my new bride, and the pastor (Rev. Blumenthal at the time) proceeds to rebuke me and my wife from the pulpit and tell us before the whole church that we were going to go to hell because my wife was still working on a job (even though she only had a week left)!!
We were in total shock and totally humiliated! I mean, WHY didn't he talk to us privately, but NO-- rebuked us before everyone. No sense alloowing us to actually enjoy our new marriage!! So typical NTCC. they're just evil people. I can't believe I didn't quit right then and there!
AXP
The fact is AXP, the NTCC can't prove (using the Bible) that it is unlawful for a woman to work anyway. As I've stated before, "keepers at home" means to be domestically inclined or a good house keeper.
Proverbs 31 is clear proof that it is lawful for a woman to work and keep a real job. The NTCC at the direction of RWD is chauvinistic and clearly wrong concerning that mandate. To be a good house keeper doesn't mean that you can't have a job. To be domestically inclined doesn't mean that you can have a job. To watch or keep the house also doesn't mean that you can't have a job. An NTCC woman isn't watching the house and keeping it when she is in church our out soul winning our cleaning the Kekel's house. Being "keepers at home" means that a woman should keep her "OWN" home, not the Kekel's or Davis's.
The NTCC has figured out every possible way to take a woman out of her home if it benefits the NTCCs program. But in an effort to keep women in check, bondage, to have control over them and every other chauvinistic reason, the NTCC says, "lady you can leave your house for every reason imaginable as long as it doesn't involve having a job".
The NTCC is seriously messed up and teaching false doctrine with this "women can't work business".
As AXP has also stated, NTCC pastors have a history of being seriously abusive as is evidenced by his and my testimony. I also don't agree with the first persons response to this topic. Mayers was simply abusive like many other NTCC pastors because they are control freaks. Plain and simple. A church member is not a "worker" under some control freak. The word "worker" implies servitude. A church member isn't there to "serve" some pastor like he is some kind of personal servant. That is how all this Kekel house cleaning business got started. Kekel and Tanya can jump off a bridge before my wife would clean one stitch of his dirty laundry or any other part of his house. I NEVER had one of my solders come to clean my house and I wouldn't have dreamed of it.
That is psychological misuse and abuse of power, plain and simple. Clean your own house you sorry control freaks. The NTCC is totally messed up and it is a poor, poor example of what's found in the New Testament. In the New Testament the church took of offerings to relieve the poor folks in the church, not to provide yet more monetary support for the likes of a control freak, Sheriff of Nottingham like RWD and Kekel. Take from the poor and give to the rich is the NTCCs motto and it makes me sick.
Jeff
I have been humilated while in the local church.
While in Oceanside,CA. while Mederano was the man in charge. I was sitting in the livingtoom. Was where Church was being held at the time. I was in a chair,close to the wall. And Mederano got on the topic of Lacviousness. And went on and on about it. I was trying to take notes. But I got mad and I did break my lead. Then I got humilated. I was the ONLY female in the room at the time. and the Only one wearing shorts(that came almost to my knee's)
I start bawling. And at the altar call cried even harder. I felt so embarassed. Sis. Mederano and her husband came over to my seat to try and comfort me. Why I know it was directed at me. She said,we all dresses wrong at one time. I was not wearing cloths to cause anyone to lust after me. Those that know me,know that is NOT me!
Then I had other humilating experiences. As a female Marine. Merderano did not want me showing up in my uniform at a soul winning event. One time due to SSrgt. playing games. I was later then usual. I show up at the home in my cook whites. What does he do. Takes my HUSBAND aside. Not ME! tells him,he has to take me home. How would it look if I the Only female willing to even go soul winning. Showed up in her Gasp,uniform! I was so humilated. The male brothers were just fine. Since they wore there uniforms to church if late,ect. They got to Wear there Pants!
As well as wear there pants on there own time. I had a big inspection coming up at the Chow Hall I was at. I was to come in my casual civie attire. I wondered what I was to wear. I made the stupid mistake of asking Mederano. He said,well since your saved now. I could not go in with pants on and destroy my testimony. So I showed up in a cotton black skirt. Which I thought was ok,it was my "cleaning" skirt. I was stuck on cleaning the fryers. a Disgusting job. And was not thought of well. Some chided me,saying I did it on purpose. To get out of work. Yeah,that made me look good in the eyes of my Fellow Marine's!
One thing that I do now have that I had to put behind me while in ntcc. Is my Pride in being a Marine. a Female Marine! Something only a few ever accomplish. And I am one of them. I know talk to other Marine's,can share my pride in my branch of service. When I joined the Marines I did become part of a UNIT. But I never lost my individuality. That is what ntcc will do to you. Takes away who YOU ARE! You start to look like everyone. All talk to about the same stuff,same lame jokes,same politics,music,dress,sales,coupons.
You begin to wonder where did who you ARe go? Do you wonder do I have a split personality thing going on. The REAL me,and the Me that ntcc wants me to become. I know,I lived that battle for 13 years! I am now ME. I no longer dress to look like Tanya or Verna or anyone else. I got my OWN taste's. The only time I got a compliment from Verna Davis was when I wore a bussiness women's two piecesuit. YUCK! Stuffy! Notice women still in ntcc. Still wearing those suits. And showing off there ROCKS in every picture they can. As if that needs to be shown!!PRIDE!
Sorry,got sidetracked. Those that of you that are in ntcc. And not leaving. At Least be YOURSELF. You can have your own style and still be holiness. You can let God direct your choices for music,sports,other topics. Mike K. lets God guide his choices!
April
Semper FI!
Bro Jeff,
I notice a simular trend. NTCC, while stressing marriage does not afford one time to ENJOY the marriage.
Your sitting in Bible study looking at your wife wishing you were somewhere else but you have to go to churh, Bible study; God's work MUST go on!!
True Story I got married while in NTCC. Went to church that night, did not even consumate the marriage until I got home late that night. Should have just slept in that night!!
They are all hypocrites, hook, line, and sinker; they have gone the way of Belial.
Now, when I go to Church, I sit WITH my wife and put my arm around her in support of her.
Bro Johnson
Bro,Johnson.
that is the one huge reason I was relieved we got married in the local church. and escaped the WALL! Which they probably do not even have now. Do away with the Torture tools they used in the past. And Pretend like all is just peachy. Act like it never happened. We are just Exers full of hate and we are so bitter. Making up lies to hurt Gods church. Sound about right. Sound like what Mike K. says probably EVERY service. To beat the brainwashing into your brains!
My MIL came to our wedding. Hubby took eleven days leave. And we spent it with family,or by ourselve's. Went shopping and got the essentials to start our household. did not partcipate in the soul winning,ect.
But I did fall for the. I had my baby. And was back in church just about the next day. thankfully we left one month after my DD was born. Then we get to Washington and the church is NOT open to the town folks. So no soul winning was going on. Shortly after it was opened up. So the soul winning started. By then my DD was three years old. Or else I would have been like so many women. Have there baby. Give there bodies NO TIME TO HEAL. And then back out there door knocking,sunday school "duties". Getting back "on fire" for God! Jargon!
All a farse to keep you busy,busy for God. When it is just to keep you worn out,tired. No time to do much of anything. No time to think,put it all together. And know that ntcc is MESSED up so called church. You get time to think,all those nagging thoughts that God is trying to get your attention. Would have time to connect and you would realize it is all a SHAME!
And LEAVE!
April,
I understand completely. My mind was so twisted with the desire to attend the NTCCs school of rules that I threw (almost) all common sense out the door. There were folks in the church that didn't even know that my wife and I were married.
The pastor wanted me and my wife to drive different cars so we could go different ways to pick people up different people for church. During church he wanted us to sit apart for his own selfish reasons and because of the NTCCs own twisted practices. Practices that he'd witnessed in Graham.
One day this lady who had been attending church for a good while asked me out for lunch after church. She had no idea that I was married. As I look back at that whole ordeal I am sickened by what I allowed. The only mental and psychological reprieve I afford myself is that I finally put a stop to all that mess and I left not only Atlanta but ultimately the entire the NTCC.
For the first time I just thought that I'm thankful for the church in Atlanta and for these abusive NTCC ministers because they showed me what the NTCC is really all about. It's good for my sake that some of these NTCC control freaks are unable to constrain themselves.
Anyway the NTCC is not a good church for fostering strong marriages.
Jeff
Wow Jeff! I remember when you were asked out. When I walked over to the car, the lady looked at me as if to say "three's a crowd sista." Can you say "awkward"? I have never understood why NTCC separates the sexes in church, fellowship, restaurants, and everywhere. There is no added spirituality in being separated from the opposite sex. It's probably just another method to control your conversations and happiness in your marriage. This is far-fetched, but sometimes I've thought Kekel would have had married people line up for permission to copulate if he thought he could get away with it.
Jeff's Wife
Expose,expose,expose ntcc the cult! The world is finding out what there All about. And it is not the fake facade they portray to the public. NOT AT ALL!
Folks are fleeing. I know more are getting ready to flee! folks that are even in ntcc don't really care if they stay or go. But since it all seems peachy now. They stay!
You get your free will back if you leave ntcc. You may think you got it,but you do not!
This is far-fetched, but sometimes I've thought Kekel would have had married people line up for permission to copulate if he thought he could get away with it.
Jeff's Wife
Now that is funny!
No doubt the girls who currently line up for the 'privilege' of cleaning kekel's house are considered likely candidates for 'other' privileges.
ntcc is one step away from Warren Jeff's 'privileged parenting' program.
Cult.
Ange
OK, here is an abuse story that happened to me. There are a ton, but I'll start with this one. I had just gotten married. My wife had not been in the church very long (maybe 6-12 months). She was working on a job, and now had to quit it since she was now married (per ntcc teachings). I was only making $5/hr and she was making more than that. In typical ntcc fashion we were completely broke and just moved into a very small apartment with no furniture-- so we needed every dollar we could get for our new life together.
We had been married for about 2 days (with no honeymoon-- which is also typical ntcc). -- AXP
Wow, AXP, what a bunch of flash-backs you gave me as I read this.
Eric and I were scheduled to get married on a Saturday. But on Friday night,during his class, davis asked Eric if we would be willing to get married at midnight (when the license waiting period was up). davis had an 'emergency' so he would not be there on Saturday...
Eric told him it was up to me and about 300 people turned around in their chairs to see my response. I said sure, fine.
I had to pray and carefully word my question to see if davis would "allow" the girls from the dorm to attend the ceremony. He said yes, grudgingly. Some of the men from Eric's dorm were present also since many of them worked for davis on the building crew or in the office. The kekel's and joe olson wre there too. Eric had asked davis to do the ceremony in the library since E had helped build it. That too was "allowed".
Because the ceremony was moved up a day, when we got to the hotel, our room was not available. As a wedding gift the men inthe Den had pooled their money and gotten us a honeymoon suite for one night. But, like I said, due to the ceremony being moved up, there was some confusion at the hotel. So Eric called the bible school to talk it over with the men. Of course eli gesang had to make a crude joke out of that phone call. You can well imagine what he said about a man making a call on his honeymoon. crude.
Eventually we got a room. But Eric was so exhausted after working all day he fell asleep.
The next night we had nowhere to go since the apartment wasn't ready for us. We stayed in a real flea-bag, roach-coach hotel on our very limited dime (Eric was working for the ntcc building crew). And even though he was trained as a General Contractor (construciton) (except he did not know or do plumbing) davis and kekel were only paying him $6 (six dollars) an hour for forty hours a week (even though he often worked far more hours than that) minus the tithe (of course) all off the books...
So the next day, Sunday we go to church. Mom Gaylord was quick to admonish me it wasn't over with the honeymoon by which she meant my hair wasnot properly curled to satisfy ntcc standards and just because I was married didn't mean I could stop trying to look pretty... Mom didn't know where we had stayed or how all our stuff was packed up in the pick-up truck, or she may have graciously said nothing, which is how I responded to her.
The next night our apartment was still not ready, so the landlord, another davis, 'let' us move into another apartment until ours was ready. This pattern of moving was to continue throughout our tenure in ntcc. In eight years we moved all of our property 25 times; (go anywhere do anything), I counted it one time. But davis would 'shoot fish in the barrel' and take pot shots at Eric from the pulpit saying, "I can't understand why that man never can put anything ($$$ money to move) together."
I'd like to see tanya and mike "put it together" the way bible school students and ministers in ntcc are forced to! I'd like to see them stick to the stupid $40 (forty dollar) a week grocery budget and other strictures put on bible school students and ministers in ntcc while I was in. But I digress.
to be continued
Angela
So that was our 'honeymoon' of sorts.
Then there was a conference coming up. Eric was going to be one of the guards in Washington while everyone else was in Missouri at the campground.
The gesangs graciously allowed us to stay at their house on the campus so Eric could pull the long shifts and not have to drive back and forth to our apartment.
This was also to be our honymoon since the work was less strenuous than a typical building crew day.
I remember how anxious and agitated eli was about this guard duty tour. He did not want Eric to let me ride in the truck with him because Mike Marshall had just left the ntcc and had been seen in Washington. OOOOooohhh??? What did they think he would do? Break out the windows of their houses? I don't know why but gesang was scared. I prayed and reminded the Lord of the scripture that where 2 or 3 are gathered together in His name, that He would be there in the midst. The Lord moved and eli said it would be alright for me to go along in the truck on guard duty. Honeymoon.
The apartment.
The apartment was a decent enough one bedroom on the Pacific Hwy in Spanaway. Lots of bible school folks lived there, since all of us wre strapped for cash. But we never talked with them, due to the "no fellowshipping without permission" rules.
I remember one time the heatingelement on our stove went out. The landlord sent Dave Noetzelman over to do the work since he was an electrician. David brought his wife, Amber Wright, with him, so we had to get permission from the b.s. (or else).
This fellowship was not expected. And I had the breakfast dishes to do, but was out of detergent. It was Saturday, so I had access to the truck, and once my 'guests' left, I was going to do the grocery shoppin (yup, all forty dollars worth). But Amber, being helpful, and perhaps due to the pressure of ntcc rules (never leave your home with a dirty dish or it would be thrown out (if you lived in the b.s. dorms)) wanted to to the dishes to help. I didn't want to tell her I didn't have any more detergent, lest I be accused of being a poor mouth or nag, and she didn't want to let me do them later, as I kept assuring her I would. So we proceeded to 'wash' and 'dry' them all and later I got home and did them all over again WITH DETERGENT! (kinda funny, but a needless bunch of stress and miscommunication due to the ntcc CULTure of fear and rules and people 'spying and repoerting on one another due to fear and rules... and I'm not saying that of Dave and Amber. Like I said, there were lots of ntcc folks there... Anyways...
to be continued
Ange
The apartment was decent enough by bible school standards. there was no microwave, no washer and dryer, and no dishwasher. But it was larger than the sutdios many b.s. married couples lived in and fairly reasonable rent, and after a while you hardly noticed the gun-fire in the alley. (I'm not joking either. It was that part of town.) Eric got mad at me because the first time I heard shots in the alley, I wanted to look out the window. Duh. Good way to get shot.
Anyway.
Not much money. No furniture except a huge desk Eric had while he was single. Eventually we got a bed that we put on the bedroom floor. What a blessing... And the brothers and sisters and the gesangs did help with some things like a toaster and a knife set and yada yada. Did have a good typewriter too from Eric's single days. Couldn't do b.s. without one!
Oh yeah, and Eric would not "allow" me to hang ONE picture. He didn't want to have to patch holes in the wall or lose the security deposit when we left to 'do a work for the Lord' -- even though patching holes in a wall for a general contractor is easier than screwing in a light bulb. Of course, I was in subjection / submission to him and never asked again and never hung a picture in that place. That was ugly. All white walls, puke green shag carpet. No vacuuum cleaner...
But when we did leave to 'do a work for the Lord' the landlord kept our security deposit anyway. The apartment was spotless and he himself said so as he showed it to the next tenant who was moving in the day we left. But he stole our security deposit money anyway. Like I said, he was a davis too!
Well, AXP, thanks for the honeymoon and first apartment flashbacks. The ntcc budget strictures and rules sure made that part of marriage an adventure to be remembered!
Angela
Angie, now you're giving me flashbacks--we lived there too, and bought some shelves from you and Eric when you moved away. Last night I looked over and saw the calculus textbook that you gave me, still sitting on the shelf (maybe one of these days I'll actually crack it open). Yeah, that apartment manager was something else; a real chiseler.
We got married at about 11PM in the Holly Hills church, right after Edna took her finals for the semester. I took her back to the $165/month tenement that was our new home, and went off to work the next day at my $5.50/hour job. We left for Fairbanks the very next month. It was insane. Miraculously, we're still together, no thanks to the borg.
Vic, it is miraculous indeed that your marriage survived ntcc. Kudos to you and Edna! kekel is such a liar when he says ntcc does not break up marriages! The blogs are full of proof from firsthand testimonies of people who have had tanya kekel or her mom verna davis pull them aside and try to get them to divorce their spouse who left ntcc. And there are so many stories of just the stress, financial pressures, time restrictions, inability to keep in touch with family "outside" ntcc, unrealistic demands and expectations put on one's children... etc. all these ntcc rules that lead to needless stress in marriages AND NO COUNSELING OR HELP but instead 'ministers' breaking confidences illegally blabbing peoples' prsonal stories from the pulpit to further manipulate them and others.
ntcc is a cult that destroys all that God intends to be a blessing in one's life.
Again, Vic, kudos to you and Edna.
Ange
Brother Jeff,
Were you the one that I re-introduced to Rev. Reed one year at a Conference near the aisle between the "men" and the "women's" side? I just looked at your picture in it's full size. You really look like the man that told me you were old friends with Rev. Reed. Then I pointed out Rev. Reed to you and the two of you talked for a really long time. Just curious. I guess it doesn't mean anything, either way. God bless you.
Kris
I guess "re-introduced" isn't really the word. It was more like I just pointed him out to you in the crowd of people and you instantly recognized him. Take care.
Kris
I understood what you were saying Kristofer. I think the term "reintroduced" was fine. Yes you were the one and you have a very good memory. The reason I know you were the one is because you had to be having such good recollection of the event. I remember the event as well.
Reed and I had been really good friends back in the day. We were in the serviceman's home together in 1985. Unfortunately I feel that Mr. Reed has fallen victim to the NTCCs thorough brainwashing. There have been stories told of Mr. Reed's abusive tactics, the likes of which so many of us have witnessed committed by NTCC many pastors.
You really do have a good memory Kristofer.
Jeff
Chuckle... Ya, but it's funny that I didn't realize it until just now... but as soon as I looked at your picture in the full-size view it just flashed before me in my mind when I was talking to you at that Conference. I enjoyed talking with you. We had a good talk together, but I think that was our first and last encounter until recently (online).
I had Reed for a pastor. He was very entertaining in the serviceman's home. Too bad he talked so much about the president at the time (Clinton) during fellowship. At the time I thought it was great to know so much about "what was going on in the world," and to be informed about such a corrupt president, but since that time I think pastors should stick to what they are supposed to: the Bible and prayer. After about 13 years of hearing so much about politics I started to wonder if the "church" is just a front. Their number one goal often seems to be to promote the conservative Republican party and U.S. nationalism. I love America, too, but there is a great big world out there besides America full of people who don't even know who Jesus is. I just don't read anywhere of Paul teaching about how the Roman government was so corrupt. He would have had to go on for days about that. They were beheading and persecuting Christians. Why bother? It's not the Church's mission to teach about politics. The government is gonna be corrupt. They are of the world. What are they trying to accomplish by almost 'requiring' ministers and members to sit in "fellowship" for HOURS and listen to a 'pastor' talk about politics? So, he didn't talk about it over the pulpit. Big deal. He still uses his position as a 'pastor' of a 'church' to do exactly that in what you could say is 'mandatory fellowship' that usually lasts longer than the message or the bible study.
It's unfair to have to listen to that for hours if you don't care to discuss politics and it's of no interest to you. I love talking for hours about God, the ministry, doctrines, missionary work, etc. I liked it under Reed, as a new Christian but I was sick of it by the time I was serving as a minister under Malsingh. He would literally change the subject (Malsingh) if someone brought up the subject of Jesus, but let someone bring up Obama, oh man, he'll talk your ear off. I would sit around RW Davis too during fellowship at Bible School. I heard from my pastor that at the Bible school people sit around him and listen to him teach. I hardly heard him say a word for years of just sitting there watching him eat popcorn and drink coffee as I recall.
What I don't like about NTCC is that critical analysis of the church is looked at as sinful, although the ones who criticized any other denomination OTHER than NTCC are looked at as heros (Martin Luther, John Huss, Paul). Only things "positive" are allowed in fellowship with the likes of MC Kekel- nothing critical. None of you underlings can be inspired by the Holy Spirit to correct us leaders- only the leaders themselves. Who in the green earth inspired the movements to revolt against the Catholic Church? The Pope? That reminds me: Tanya Kekel taught over and over in Church History that when the early church started making a sharp divide between the clergy and the congregation that was when they were making a mistake. I remember thinking, does she not think that exists in NTCC? We call ministers, Sir. Ministers fellowshipped with ministers, and not with congregants. Low-ranking ministers wash the cars, shine the shoes, and cut the grass of ministers in the upper echelons. Did Jesus accept that kind of service from his disciples?
This is the mark of the org that is not the true church, given to us by Jesus himself:
Mat 20:25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
I don't think NTCC is the only 'church' org that does not practice this, but there are many humble pastors who do. I found a church in the Philippines that they said has a pastor who spent so much time on his knees praying that he had bruises on them, awful looking sores, but no doubt beautiful in the eyes of God. That is service to your church. They also said he is paralyzed from all the time spent fasting. This may seem extreme, but I just think of what a contrast that is to the prayer meetings at NTCC hq's with Gandy fellowshipping and laughing and joking in the church while the handful of low-ranking ministers tried to pray. I remember when the prayer meetings had many high-ranking preachers, then over time, they seemed to take turns. There would be just one high-ranking minister in there at a time, if memory serves, and a handful of low-rankers.
http://michaelckekel.blogspot.com/p/april-michalick-files.html
Gee,I should feel so special. That Mike K. has no made a special link for me on his blog. Golly Gee! taking my personal e-mails to him. And posting them on his blog. Calling me a facebook agent. And where he gets that from. I contact three MOLES in Washington via Facebook. See how they were doing. THEY ASKED,how we were and why we were not ntcc. I gave them a general low down of how we have been and why we did leave ntcc.
He use a quote of how when we first left ntcc,I had thought to still attend a local church. Why was that. because you were programmed if you went anywhere else they were "not of God". Or if you left ntcc,you left God. I was freakin' scared if I went nowhere or anywhere else I was going to have God angry with me. NO JOKE!
It took me about six months of being OUT of the FOG of the ntcc brainwashing's influence. Before I finally let God back into my brain. And helped me connect it all together. That day when I first acknowledged that yes,ntcc could be a cult. I was really tenative.Afraid to say it outloud. To say it outloud would be admitting that I had went and joined a cult. Freak anyone out! Once I said,yes this was a bad controlling church to be in. And took a while to fulling understand what ntcc is all about. I learn more and more each day! As more folks come forth with there TRUE STORIES!
So for those of you that come on here. And think wow,they leave ntcc. And still look like they did in ntcc. And then six-eight months later they look so different. Don't jump to the ntcc conclusion. That would be,that the devil got a hold of them. Or they are tyring to be like the world. No,what happens is the FOG LIFTS! You really are in a deep fog and can only believe what is being fed to you. You get away from the influence,the control. And you allow God to get a hold of you. It is really an awakening,God opens your eyes,brains! it is a SHOCKING day. When I did that. First thing I did was call my Mom. Told her,Mom you were right. She told me in 1993 that ntcc was a cult. And I pishposhed it. Thought,oh no this can't be a cult. A cult is a freakish thing. These folks are nice,and like me. LISTEN to your PARENTS. OR others trying to warn you when you first get in ntcc. THEY ARE RIGHT!!
There is NOTHING good about ntcc. Nothing at all!!
April MICHALIK(notice Mike K. can not even spell my last name correctly)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Funny thing is,I don't talk about ntcc on my Facebook! So how am I a facebook agent I guess of the devil?? He is a funny,paranoid man. He will have a HUGE fence up around his house. And become afraid just like his Father in law!!
Look at these poor people! As is typical of the workers in ntcc, they are EXHAUSTED! No board member will be traveling there to relieve them for a week or two either (as Mom and Pop Gaylord used to do for ministers).
ntcc sucks the life out of people!
Rev and Sis Macdonald,
Where are you now? Greetings and Salutations in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
Are you still affilitated with NTCC?
Bro Johnson
Many of us attended "name" churches before we got stuck in the cult called ntcc. And since escaping ntcc many have attended other churches.
What I am getting at is. I could be attending a Church of God assembly down the road. Could have a good friend of mine. Say some negative comments about the church. Would I drop that person as my friend?NOPE!
Or you got another friend that was a believer and has become a athiest. And Blogs about there opinions on God,faith. Would I drop them as my friend?NOPE!
BUT you do have folks in ntcc that will drop you as there friend. If they know your talking negatively about ntcc and there experiences in ntcc. Why is that? Is it necessary for them to not be your friend. Because your views are not lining up on religion?
If there afraid that we will corrupt there minds. Then there faith must not be that stong in ntcc to begin with!
I see folks keeping exntccer's as there friends. ONLY if they are nice,friendly. And do not speak ill of ntcc publically!!!!!!!!!!!!!
April
My poor brother is sending his daughter to this worthless seminary. Right in the face of Grant Kekel going off to a semi-Ivy League school. They are the same age. I am pretty sure he is shipping off to Saint Louis University
http://www.slu.edu/x5416.xml
with Ryan Langford Kevin and Diane Smith's Son.
Ok Kekel, Prove me wrong you snake
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