Nicole wrote in a previous thread..."In one of the classes that Davis taught, two sisters were bickering or mad at each other for something, so one tattled on the other that she had started going to Curves. Davis got very angry and told our whole class that if we have money to attend Curves, he was going to raise our tuition. "
Jeff said...
This is as usual a totally startling revelation. I really wonder what it will take so that NTCC folks will wake up and forsake old RWD and the NTCC. Does everyone understand what Davis was saying????? He was saying that people would spend THEIR money the way he, (RWD) saw fit or he would create a institutional financial requirement that would totally effect the amount of money that his students had to spend. He would create a situation that would require them to spend money which would go to the NTCC so they wouldn't have enough money left to spend on what they wanted. The mentality that RWD possesses is so sick, controlling, conniving, and crooked that it is almost beyond understanding.
Who is RWD to dictate how grown folks spend their money? Not only that but do all the readers here have any idea how many NTCC woman currently attend fitness centers such as curves? LOTS. It's all over the internet because that is a good percentage of what NTCC women talk about; hence my last thread. So what kind of double standard garbage is that? It's called using a school to indoctrinate your psychologically manipulated slaves and minions. That was proof that RWD was after their MONEY. More importantly and more accurately than that, it is proof that RWD truly feels deep down inside that HE, (RWD) should have control of YOUR MONEY, PERIOD. Additionally, it is also obvious that if he thought you were spending your money on something other than HIS CHURCH, he would create a church requirement that would result in you not having any money left to spend elsewhere. That is sick and RWD is a complete con artist and I have no problem or fear of writing it or saying it.
Jeff Collins
P.S. How long will some folks let the likes of RWD and Kekel control their entire life, because it is not God who is doing it. God doesn't say that he will raise the tuition of a non accredited bologna school because you spent money to try to stay in some kind of physical shape. I didn't see RWD telling Tanya and Mike to stop spending money when they were spending about $20,000 a year on Grants school, which included Grant playing football and basketball and who knows how many other physically related activities. Can't you NTCC folks see and understand what I'm saying? I'm not against you, I'm trying to point out some things that you may not be aware of because that is the purpose of this blog. I have no control of how Kekel and RWD spend their money and I'd be an idiot if I allowed them to control how I spend mine, primarily and especially because of what I know about them now. Such a double standard and such crookedness and it is plain to see. What, God holds the Kekel family to a different standard? Has God become partial? No but RWD is partial, and anyone who can't see that after reading this blog is blind. We are not making this stuff up. I have better things to do.
101 comments:
One thing I do notice in common on Facebook amongst ministers wives is they are all 'fans' of Jillian Michaels, The Biggest Loser, SparkPeople, Weight Watchers, and Curves.
Nothing wrong with those things, but many of these ladies, do not need to be dieting and counting calories in the first place. They aren't heavy or obese at all.
Maybe it's just a mentality thing for them? I don't know. You know, when one sister does something, it usually has a ripple effect.
Ladies don't let the fear of calories rob you of enjoying the small pleasures in life (a bowl of ice cream, a brownie, a piece of cake, a slice of banana bread...) every now and then.
Nicole ~
Wow..that's crazy!
Last time I checked, he isn't married to any of those ladies, so he has no authority to tell them what they can and can not do with their time / money.
That's between the hubby and wife, not hubby, wife, and a creepy control freak preacher.
I wish some sisters would have been brave enough in that class to stand up to him. I mean, nicely, ya know. Yeah, he probably would have pointed to the door and told them to leave, but at least someone would have had a voice.
Sorry for rambling. :)
Dawn said...
I wish some sisters would have been brave enough in that class to stand up to him. I mean, nicely, ya know. Yeah, he probably would have pointed to the door and told them to leave, but at least someone would have had a voice.
Jeff said...
I totally agree other than the "nicely part". I understand that many Christians feel that they need to always be nice but that is not always the theme that we see with Jesus in the Bible. On one occasion we find Jesus flipping tables and getting quite upset at the folks in the temple.
I think the ladies should have stood up and quite forcefully told old grumpy, nasty RWD where he could get off at and let him know that he didn't have to worry about pointing to the door because they were already heading in that direction and by the way; they would go to any fitness center that they wanted to. Oh and before they left let him know that he didn't have to worry about raising the tuition because they wouldn't be paying it any longer because they were out of there FOR GOOD.
That would have been the right answer for that creep RWD and I really believe that. RWD could use a good dose of what he has been dishing out for all these years. I wouldn't mind running into him because I would take joy in giving him a good peace of my mind.
Jeff
Jeff said...
I totally agree other than the "nicely part". I understand that many Christians feel that they need to always be nice but that is not always the theme that we see with Jesus in the Bible. On one occasion we find Jesus flipping tables and getting quite upset at the folks in the temple.
I think the ladies should have stood up and quite forcefully told old grumpy, nasty RWD where he could get off at and let him know that he didn't have to worry about pointing to the door because they were already heading in that direction and by the way; they would go to any fitness center that they wanted to. Oh and before they left let him know that he didn't have to worry about raising the tuition because they wouldn't be paying it any longer because they were out of there FOR GOOD.
That would have been the right answer for that creep RWD and I really believe that. RWD could use a good dose of what he has been dishing out for all these years. I wouldn't mind running into him because I would take joy in giving him a good peace of my mind.
Jeff
January 15, 2010 6:20 AM
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
BitG said: PREACH!
Hey, Dawn, now how's that for some repetition for ya?
BitG
B.S. STUDENTS NO MORE MON. NIGHTS OFF--TOO MANY HITS ON THE TRUE STORIES OF LIFE IN THE ntcc BLOG
That's my title of this post.
But if rw davis can and has made more work for B.S. students just because some brothers were tossing around a football, well kekel could and probably will follow in the old man's footsteps and make more work for B.S. students on Monday nights. You know why?
Monday is the busiest day on this blog.
7-9 p.m are the two busiest hours.
Better hang your heads you students of B.S. Mikey is gonna get you (an ifn he don't that mean ol' icky-sticky-vicki will).....
BitG
I remember the time the olsons came by to visit and ms. olson was always telling us how that she didn't spend more than she had and making little comments on how that she had to be very careful on not going over the budget and getting lots of things for her grandaugher at the thrift shop. I was just so dissapointed that even she had to skimp in things and she was married to the top man. I don't know if she did this so that we won't think that she was living high on the hog, while we were barely scrapping a living.
xo
Sorry Dawn but the majority of woman and men in NTCC are grossly obese! The majority of the men that I know are pushing 300 pounds, and the sisters are really out of shape, that is why they have so many health issues! But you will hear them make jokes like "the fat belongs to the Lord HA HA HA!!!" or Tanya Kekel will have the nerve to say "It used to be the fashionable thing for woman to be rotund." It use to be the fashionable thing to drive a model T Ford but how many of those do you see. The point is the people of NTCC will justify everything they do.... You mean to tell me that God intended people to be obese? I highly doubt it! The people of NTCC are guilty of the sin of gluttony/overeating, and destroying their bodies with the way they eat! What is the difference between smoking, and drinking alcohol or eating so much fried food that you are 50-100lbs overweight??? The woman and the men of NTCC need to count calories, because frankly I do not want to hear what some fat butt has to say about the Bible when they cant even walk a flight of stairs without being winded!
Former Lay Pastor
This occurred about 6 years ago. Outside of what people post here, I have no idea what Graham is like now.
I'm a little confused about so much focus on this one incident though.
I could ask the same question why not a single preacher man ever stood up to Davis. They heard plenty worse than raising the tuition price.
A wife of an ntcc preacher is normally not employed, has next to no credit record, no referrences to get a job, no money in savings, no family nearby, etc etc. If she were to lose her husband because she appeared to be not loyal to ntcc, not only would she lose someone she loves, she would also be in a place of hurt.
I think where the disconnect is here is between those who attended the church and seminary in Graham and those who did not. Also there were major differences between women who were married to a pastor and those who were not.
I hope you won't take offense to this post Jeff, because I've obviously still have had some things to get off my chest and you have been kind enough to post my ramblings. When and if I disagree it is respectfully so.
I miss the Pelfrey's and I have no idea how much of what I wrote is floating around where. Or how much of what they wrote is floating around. But they always understood me.
I don't know how much more I can emphasize this... and maybe I can go into more detail on other things later... but ntcc can and will break up a marriage. It's not about being nice. It's about Rev Olsen having private meetings with your husband (without you) about the status of your marriage and who is going to whisper in your spouses ear that they would be better off without you.
It's not a game up there. When you lose, you lose everything.
I have a memory of Sis Olsen I have always wanted to share. I once saw the Olsens pull up to church and park in their special spot. Rev Olsen got out and started walking up to the church. Sis Olsen was behind him and walking slowly, almost as if in pain.
Not one time did Rev Olsen stop to check on his wife or help her. Two teenage girls saw the difficulty she was having and ran to her side. Each held an arm and helped her in.
Not one single time while in ntcc did I ever see Rev Olsen be nice to his wife.
Jeff said...
Former Lay Pastor: PREACH!!!!!
Yet another double standard to justify the NTCCs lifestyle. If I heard "the fat belongs to the Lord" once, I've heard it twenty times. The NTCC loves to use that phrase to make light of their failure to maintain average physical conditioning. This is a direct result of the lifestyle they live which has been mandated by RWD. Always on the go but with little tangible exercise. The NTCC theme and primary objective. Women not working and the men being "full time" neither of which leads to a healthy lifestyle.
When you don't really work on a job that results in you truly burning calories, stay up till all hours of the night and wait for Olson's inconsiderate phone calls at 0 dark thirty, and sleep late often, you physically get what you get. Once again I understand that metabolism has a lot to do with it but the percentage of NTCC people running after the newest diet does not reflect in the NTCCs favor as it is a direct reflection of the percentage of overweight people in the NTCC.
Do you think, Former Lay Pastor? I think you would know better than I would.
Jeff
Nicole: As far as I can recall, (correct me if I'm wrong) I've never had a problem with any of your posts. Please feel free to post whenever and whatever you desire. That goes with everyone. If it weren't for the fact that some people are trying to post inappropriate material on this blog I wouldn't even moderated it. I would rather not if I had my choice.
The testimony that you wrote and I just posted is very good information and speaks volumes about Olson's character. The previous one that I referenced that I reposed resulting in this thread speaks volumes about RWD's character.
I've seen Olson's wife in pain also and his phony healing services never seemed to heal her and I'm telling it like it is. Why is it that she didn't come to the front to get healed when God supposedly directed Olson to call people to come up for healing? It doesn't make sense and I'm no longer buying off on the NTCC leaders lame explanations. If God told me to bring folks up to get healed you can best believe that if my own Wife had a physical ailment she would be the first one I would have to come up.
When people came to Jesus for a healing it was a regular occurrence for them to come on behalf of their family member. Why should Olson be any different? I'll tell you why. Because I believe that God didn't direct Olson to do jack say no less legitimately call folks up for a "REAL" healing and that is why his wife didn't come and that is why he didn't push the issue and that is why she left in the same condition that she came.
Like I said. If God himself directed me to bring folks up for a healing and my wife needed one, I would go get her whether she came up on her own or not, and it is just that simple. I don't guess that God does that kind of thing very often so I would take full advantage of it when he did.
Didn't the people do the same when Jesus came to town? If you read the same Bible that I did that's what happened. They came around in multitudes to get something from the master.
Great post Nicole and I mean that, and thanks for what you do here. I can not do it alone nor do I expect to. There is power in numbers and that is a fact and I don't like RWD but that is one thing that he and I both understand very well. People need to read testimonies such as the one that you wrote. I didn't experience what you did.
Jeff
Nicole ~
Sis. Olson...she is the sweetest thing ever!
I remember many times her and her hubby coming through the area and her just plopping down in the pew and begin talking to ya as if she knew you her whole life. :)
She also had a good memory because I remember she would come up to me at conferences and give me a hug and here I though she didn't remember me at all.
I hope she is doing well. :)
Nothing wrong with those things, but many of these ladies, do not need to be dieting and counting calories in the first place. They aren't heavy or obese at all.
Maybe it's just a mentality thing for them? I don't know. You know, when one sister does something, it usually has a ripple effect.
Dawn said this.
Folks have looked at me. Told me,oh your not fat. Yes I know I am overweight.
Dresses HIDE a MULTITUDE OF BLUBBER!(ntcc women) If they took there BMI test. Most of the women in ntcc are obese. They live a Very SEDATED lifestyle. A one income family causes there diet to consist of very unhealthy processed foods. USE those COUPONS!
Oh and the mentality thing. For many years women in ntcc have had to sit there,with a FAKE SMILE. While rw davis shared FAT JOKES,actually FAT SLAMS. About women! Men sometimes,but the magority of the time it was directed towards women. Fat jokes,Blonde jokes,and Bible college student jokes. NO,they were not meant in jest. But ways that rw davis got his jabs in. Hiding behind the pulpit as usual! tearing down even more women's self esteem! So they stay in there PLACE! Barefoot and pregnant mentality! Woman that is JUST a ring,Woman your opinion is just that,an opinion that the man does not HAVE to listen to. Since he is the one that will be making the decisions! Way to make a women feel helpless!
Ladies don't let the fear of calories rob you of enjoying the small pleasures in life (a bowl of ice cream, a brownie, a piece of cake, a slice of banana bread...) every now and then.
DAWN said.
Oh they will enjoy those things. Doing the only recreation that ntcc allows. FELLOWSHIPPing at other folks home's. WOW,that is such excitment. To go to someone's home and EAT!!
CM
I wish some sisters would have been brave enough in that class to stand up to him. I mean, nicely, ya know. Yeah, he probably would have pointed to the door and told them to leave, but at least someone would have had a voice.
DAWN said.
It is absolutely correct. Church members do have that FALSE sense of bravery. I am my own person. I don't have to follow the rules if I don't want to. Go to Bible school and that ALL changes. Mike K. has been QUOTED,he does not preaches the so call holiness standards to Church members anymore. his words,it is NOT BIBLICAL. But become a minister and all of those POLICIES apply to him and his family.
You live in FEAR. FEAR of being late to any event. Or you would LOSE a SEMESTER. Fear of asking a question,because you would have been asked to leave. Don't like it,there is the door! That was NOT A JOKE. Rw really,really meant that!
What would have happened to that lady if she had left. Tanya and Verna would have put a wedge inbetween her and her husband. He would divorce her. And she would be kicked out of the church. And in her mind,ntcc is the ONLY church. So she leaves ntcc,she elaves GOD!
Dawn,you think a lady that is bashed ALL the time. ridiculed,belittled. And she is going to be brave enough to stand up to rw davis. This same man ,that makes women stand up in his classes and he ridicules there hair styles,there cloths look horrible,why are you wearing that bow lady,that perm looks like a rats nest. All of these words have come out of rw davis mouth.
I would have loved to see Dawn,try and stand up and still be nice about it. Sorry,that is living in a fairyland. Not the life I lived in ntcc. the life I lived in was fear. Which is why I stayed in ntcc for ten more years then I would have. I stayed to keep my marriage in tack. I stayed so my child had a two parent homelife. I stayed because I feared even getting a job,and making it on my own.
Many of those fears are gone. So much Stress that I lived under is GONE! But I know many women that still live under that stress. Put on that fake smile and put up with the treatment they get.
Another reason women are fat in ntcc. is STRESS. it will make it REALLY hard to LOSE weight. Makes the metabolism go out of wack. Women are out walking and walking and walking. And not much fat is coming off. That stress of the life they live in the cult is still there!
CM
DIVORCE RATES HIGHER IN THIS CULT THAN IN THE GENERAL POPULATION:
Why? Because that's what ntcc teaches and practices. What your wife didn't have dinner ready? She's living in rebellion. Here's a card for my divorce lawyer...BitG
Nicole made some good points:
A wife of an ntcc preacher is normally not employed, has next to no credit record, no referrences to get a job, no money in savings, no family nearby, etc etc. If she were to lose her husband because she appeared to be not loyal to ntcc, not only would she lose someone she loves, she would also be in a place of hurt.
It's not a game up there. When you lose, you lose everything.
[...]
I don't know how much more I can emphasize this... and maybe I can go into more detail on other things later... but ntcc can and will break up a marriage. It's not about being nice. It's about Rev Olsen having private meetings with your husband (without you) about the status of your marriage and who is going to whisper in your spouses ear that they would be better off without you.--Nicole.
++++++++++++
BitG says there is so much packed in there. PLEASE THINK ABOUT IT!
If your spouse disappears when you're at the fellowship hall or you
learn they are talking to olson, or other board members or overseers without you there: RED FLAG! WATCH OUT.
And I'm not joking. They do hand out divorce lawyer's business cards.
There's no marriage counseling, no prayer, no discussion, no checking to see if there is a biblical grounds for divorce like fornication... And even then one should really hit the prayer closet. Wouldn't you rather restore your spouse through forgiveness than condemn them to a life of adultery or no remarriage?
This topic is huge.
ntcc has broken up so many marriages through their man-made false doctrines that add stress and through their false teachings that if your spouse leaves ntcc you can get a divorce.
That's not what the bible says!
Just because your spouse is tired of ntcc's lies and manmade doctirnes and leaves a cult, that does not mean they are unbelieving; or that they have left God.
Some of you re-married PREACHERS in ntcc are living in ADULTERY; and you have committed fornication, giving your spouse who left ntcc the green light in God's eyes to seek a godly spouse!
ntcc is sick and twisted and devilsh and demonic in their practice of breaking up homes and marriages.
BitG
Dawn said...
Sis. Olson...she is the sweetest thing ever!
I remember many times her and her hubby coming through the area and her just plopping down in the pew and begin talking to ya as if she knew you her whole life. :)
She also had a good memory because I remember she would come up to me at conferences and give me a hug and here I though she didn't remember me at all.
Jeff wrote...
Mr. Olson is one of the most fake, double crossing, suck up to RWD dudes that I've ever met in my life. His wife hugs everyone so I'm not trying to burst your bubble Dawn but I wouldn't allow that to make you feel too special. These folks, (like Mrs. Olson) have been taught to recognize people, (like yourself Dawn) who act like they feel so special when hugged or recognized by an overseer or his wife. They capitalize on that, and they make a fake show of caring and concern to try and win you to "THEIR" church, and often it works.
Has Sister Olson called you on at least 5 occasions to see what you've been up to? Has she called you on one occasion to see what you've been up to? You are just a number to her. You are just a $ sign to the NTCC leadership. They could care less about you or anyone else. They care about two things where you and everyone else is concerned and only these two things. Here they are.
#1. That you faithfully pay your tithes and then some.
#2. That you blindly follow and obey each and everyone of their whims. PERIOD end of story!
They will make some exceptions to the second as long as you are totally faithful to the first. If you are not totally faithful to the first they will blast you over and over until you do get faithful to the first or they run you off and you better believe it.
The Olson's had you hoodwinked Dawn plain and simple. If Mrs. Olson was such a good women she would leave the NTCC whether her husband did or not and why do I say this. Because she knows about the dead dirty bones in both RWDs and her husbands closet and of that fact, I have no doubt. Olson doesn't have me fooled one single bit. He is a dirt bag. He is a wolf in lambs clothing. The stories that I've been told about Olson by NTCC pastors and ministers makes my blood boil. He does whatever RWD directs and he has no care or concern about who it hurts.
You wouldn't believe some of the things that Olson has covered up about RWD and the NTCC. I'm sure that his wife knew about some of it and probably a whole lot more. Dawn what I'm saying I'm saying respectfully, but you weren't involved with the NTCC enough to ever get a good understanding of how folks like the Olson's and Davis's really are.
Your recollection of these NTCC ministers dramatically differs from a lot of other people. And having said all that, that is perfectly fine and I mean that also. Just understand and accept that many folks, (especially on this blog) will contend with your analysis where the NTCC and their personnel are concerned. Please don't think that it is strange.
As you see I post each and every one of your messages just like the others but I would be remiss if I didn't remind our readers that the Olson's are a major part of the major problem that has existed within the NTCC. Olson is one of the very worst and his wife is his wife and she knows about much of his dirt so she doesn't get a bi around here.
Jeff
MK Taking a shot...
Don't Believe Everything You Read...
We live in an era of too much information; an era wherein anyone/everyone can post whatever they want to post on the Internet—unchecked, unverified, unaccountable, unhindered, and unstoppable. Rumors, gossip, baseless accusations, outright lies, fear-mongering, hate rhetoric, hoaxes, slander/libel, and false information now litter the Internet. So today's word of advise from me to all of you is: BE CAREFUL!!!
Most tragic is how so-called "Christians" are contributing to this proliferation of misinformation and disinformation throughout cyberspace. It's almost beyond belief that individuals supposedly indwelt by the Holy Spirit could be partakers of such activity. But the facts show that a significant number of "Christian" blogs & websites have indeed become dedicated to attacking others; more specifically, dedicated to attacking other Christians!
And such attacks are not just limited to simple assaults on other points of view, but penetrate into the realm of questioning another person's Christianity, misrepresenting the faith of others, and deliberately seeking to destroy the reputation of various public figures (i.e., fellow believers). These persons have actually formed a new "cult" of sorts. This "cult," which I have termed the "Cult of Online Discernment Ministries (ODMs)," has demonstrated that its real mission/ministry is the destruction of fellow Christians with whom they disagree. Ironically, they do it under the guise of defending the faith against cults and false doctrine via apologetics/discernment. This has caused great division within the church—unnecessary division because their attacks are based on things that have NOTHING to do with doctrinal teachings or whether or not a person is in the church. They base their attacks on:
- political views,
- methods of preaching,
- preferred styles of music/dress,
- different perspectives on various non-essentials of the faith,
- positions on eschatology,
- public friendships/associations they enjoy with certain believers/unbelievers
- certain verbiage used to communicate biblical truths
The targets of these Online Discernment Ministries (ODMs) are summarily labeled heretics, false teachers, deceivers, conspiratorial players in some Antichrist scenario, apostates, fake brethren who lead fake churches, compromisers, New Age sympathizers—the list goes on and on. Unfortunately, the way these people/ministries make their charges stick is by use of:
- half-truths,
- false information,
- outright lies,
- faulty reasoning,
- unsubstantiated assumptions,
- quotes taken out of context, and
- manipulation of facts
Truths...
Matthew 23
1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
4For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
5But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
I think this scripture describes what goes on at ntcc better than any other. This is what I call hitting the nail on the head.
"I read about an Eskimo hunter who asked the local missionary priest, 'If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to Hell?' 'No,' said the priest, 'not if you did not know.' 'Then why,' asked the Eskimo earnestly, 'did you tell me?' " ~ Annie Dillard, Pilgrim at Tinker Creek,1974
When I was about 22 years old, a "pioneer pastor" told me I could never get married and be right with God. He based this judgement on accusations he accused me of without any proof and without asking me anything.
He went all the way to Davis trying to prevent me from getting married. I'm 22. Obviously he failed because I married my husband.
He told me that because I claimed to be saved in ntcc and "had crossed the blood line" whatever that is... I had to be single and alone for the rest of my life.
This is one of the biggest lies ntcc will tell people. Because you have been saved in ntcc, your life will never be the same. Kekel, Davis, Olsen all use this, this young crazy preacher just didn't apply it in the way they wanted.
A few months before my husband and I left ntcc, Olsen started approaching my husband. He was asking him strange questions about our marriage (he did this while I was in children's church). My husband actually had to tell Olsen, no my wife hasn't stopped going to church and no we don't have any marriage problems; she's just in children's church right now.
You tell me why a holiness precher CEO of a church would approach someone like that and imply such things.
You have to fight for those you love.
In my opinion NTCC really wants to leave its church members, and preachers broke, unhealthy, and uneducated. It makes you dependant to Roger Davis. When you have no money to buy a nice home, and Davis offers you a spot in a rental in the Bonco you seemingly move up, but are ultimately dependant upon him. He has even more control over your life, once you live there. He tells you what to do, corrects your kids, knows who is at your house etc.... Everyone that lives there is afraid to even let their lawn grow to much out of fear of being corrected! The funny thing is you will even see the wives dressed up out doing lawn work. I can remember seeing Jennifer Connor in a long dress, and leather jacket, looking all spiffy doing yard work. It was ridiculous! But she was so concerned with what RW would say that she went to this extreme. NTCC wants you unhealthy, and uneducated. Educated people tend to think for themselves, and question individuals like Davis. Healthy, and in shape people tend to have more self confidence, and a higher level of self esteem then do out of shape and fat people. Davis wants you dependant upon him! So that when you are so broke, a crumb from his table seems to be an abundant blessing! So that when he spews his cultish jargon about being the elite of God and all others are compromisers, you will have a boost of self esteem, and confidence even though you are flat broke, dumb as a hillbilly, and grossly overweight!
"We have the right Organization, we have the right church!!!" "We have the right Pastor???" How many times have you heard guest speakers spew this brainwashing trash to the congregation, in order to emphasize your need for them? I am a firm believer that a lot of people that remain in NTCC do so because they lack self esteem! They would rather have bad attention, and a negative experience, then to have no attention at all! That was one of the reasons I left that cult was because I got tired of Mike Kekel, and Roger Davis, and the elitist attitude of a bunch of people, who really have done nothing with their lives but hold themselves up on some type of superior pedal stool! I remember fellowshipping with T.P. Jordan when I was a lay pastor, and he was an associate pastor. He made this comment...."I believe in taking care of the man of God, because I believe in trickle down blessings... If you bless Pastor Davis then the blessings will trickle down." Thats right Paul, they will trickle down. God knows how to make them POUR OUT!, and a cult leader knows how to make them TRICKLE DOWN! Thats why you are staring at 50 here soon, and you are broke, unhealthy, and uneducated. He has to stay with NTCC what else can he do? My question to all that read my posts is this... WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO?
Sincerely;
A Former Lay Pastor
1999-2005
Sometimes it is not a matter of how long you were in ntcc. But if you left ntcc. And still want to keep this rosey image of the people and the Org. in your mind.
I am kind of curious why did Dawn even leave ntcc. She seems to still believe there "holiness" way of living. Does she think the changes are Actual compromising Gods word? She stays in touch with her "friends' in ntcc. Most folks that talk to you while still in ntcc. Use it as ammuniation against you. Soon as they get off the phone with you,get right back on it with Tanya. And do what,GOSSIP./ I know this for a fact. It has happened to me. When we first left. I did still call Tanya,e-mail friends still in. It all got twisted on me,lies have been said. You can tell them the entire story why you are leaving. Hold nothing out. But in the end,lies will still be said about ANYONE that leave ntcc!
Dawn has shared that now women in ntcc lead exercise classes,are in charge of kids troops. WOW,that is a sxciting life they lead. If there are so many wonderful changes. Ntcc is catching up with mainstream Churches. Why stay out of ntcc? who not go back and join them? Must be some reason your Out of ntcc and why you stay out!
Took me about half a year before the FOG began to lift. I no longer lived in that fear. Living under the bondage of ntcc FALSE biblical teachings. I went on ntccXposed,factnet. And started reading and and allowing my Brain to THINK and not be guided by ntcc brainwashing jargon teaching.
I am led to believe Dawn is still under some of that fog. Wants to keep a rosey picture of ntcc in her mind. Lets not bash ntcc so much. I still have my friends in ntcc. They still love me,right!
Concerning Mrs. olson hugging you. Nothing Special for them to hug Anyone. They love to hug,and show there "love" for everyone. Keep everyone with the warm fuzzy feelings. So they don't even think twice about the JUNK and Lies that are being shared! I for one did not fall for there false caring. I would often try and talk and get help from Tanya or Verna. Get about three minutes of there time. And they would just start walking away and moving on. There Time was SOOOO precious. Everyone wanted to talk to them. Got to spread there time around to all there SERVANTS!You were just a money sourse to them. Nothing else!!
CM
MK wrote...
Unfortunately, the way these people/ministries make their charges stick is by use of:
- half-truths,
- false information,
- outright lies,
- faulty reasoning,
- unsubstantiated assumptions,
- quotes taken out of context, and
- manipulation of facts
Jeff wrote...
I'm not totally sure where MK is coming from however I have a pretty good idea. I wonder if MK is Mike Kekel? Who knows. If I'm interpreting his or her message correctly, I believe the list that I re-posted is directed in part at this blog. Assuming that I'm correct, let me refute the list posted above. Before I start I don't ever make a practice of posting in some kind of grammatical code that requires someone to interpret what it is that I've written. I write plainly and what I write, and the message contained can be very clearly understood. This is hardly the case with the post that I'm referencing.
The message writer used the terms in order:
Half truths: I can assure you that I've done my best to reference whole truths as it relates to the stories that I've written about NTCC and it's leadership. I've done my homework and I've had enough personal experiences to know quite a bit about the NTCC.
False information: I've not written false information and I'm quite sure that the clear majority of statements written by other exNTCCers on this blog are not false either. I've nothing to hide which is why I offer my phone number to anyone who is interested in calling me if they have any question about anything that I've written. It's the NTCC leadership who can't stand the truth and the NTCC pastors regularly hide behind their pulpits and they will not entertain direct questions.
Outright lies: Not by me on this blog; PERIOD. I don't believe that to be the case with the other posters here either. That is just another example of what I call garbage.
Faulty reasoning: Periodically possible, and I don't deny that. I have rarely but periodically stated speculation but I've made that known in the past. On the occasions that I have incorporated speculation, the speculation was derived from a whole bunch of known facts. That is how you figure out an equation. You take the known facts, put them together, and draw your "logical" conclusion. For the record, I don't speculate often but when I do, I make a point to emphasize that I know that is exactly what I've done. Faulty reasoning exists in virtually everyone's daily life from time to time.
Unsubstantiated assumptions: I've been around the NTCC long enough and I know enough about the NTCC leadership to know that none of my assumptions have been unsubstantiated. Possibility incorrect but not unsubstantiated. Example: 1+1=2. Not an unsubstantiated conclusion but wrong if you assume the equation is mathematical because in this case I was thinking of a man and a woman coming together and making 1 baby which does not equal 2. Once again I have always incorporated a great body of facts before I've made assumptions and as a result most of the time they were no longer assumptions and if they were assumptions I've made that clear.
Quotes taken out of context: That is relative. The person making the quote can always claim he meant it differently but repetition is a good teacher concerning someones character and the true meaning of their statements.
Continued below...
Jeff
A continuation from above...
And lastly Manipulation of facts: That is also relative. One could say that I manipulated the facts and I could say they manipulated the facts but once again, repetition is a good teacher. RWD and his pastors regularly pointed to the Door if they felt that someone wasn't happy with their church. I say they did that because they just flat out didn't care, and if you didn't allow them to control your life then they would rather not have you around. Because I've heard the same offer made by RWD and his ministers over and over. I've determined that my conclusion is neither unsubstantiated, manipulated facts, outright lies, or quotes taken out of context.
I was a military leader long enough to recognize a control monger and that is also a fact. In military terms someone like that is called an Authoritarian. So I happen to know that when RWD and his ministers pointed to the door, they simply could no longer deal with you not letting them control your life and as a result they would rather not have you in their church if you didn't conform to their whims. They also couldn't stand you questioning them because they are also insecure leaders so as a result they would rather have you gone. That is fact and I know it regardless of what someone else suggests. That was just an example and guess what else. Why do I feel that I understand these NTCC leaders and their intentions as well as I do? Because it takes one to know one and I was also, "IN THE NTCC" and I understand the way they think because in "SOME" respects "not ALL", I used to think the same way. These NTCC leaders aren't fooling anyone who has been around for a while except those who want to be fooled because they can't deal with the truth.
Jeff
MK-mikey kekel?-SHOOTS HIMSELF IN THE FOOT... PART 1
Someone left an anonymous post with this header:
Anonymous said...
MK Taking a shot...
-----------------------------------
BitG says,
It was very long. I will copy it and use it to describe the ntcc cult to you using mk's post with only a few words changed and with specific examples added. The new things I add will be in ALL CAPS and will be my opinion:
BitG
P.S. mk thanks for doing such a good job describing the cult (In My Opinion--IMO--:-) called new testament christian church (ntcc) with headquarters in Graham, Washington and its (IMO) abusive environment and techniques which mikey kekel, roger wilson davis, and their cult (IMO) cronies employ:
THUS:
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Anonymous said...
MK Taking a shot...
mike kekel SHOOTS OFF HIS MOUTH
Don't Believe Everything You Read...
-AMEN! PREACH IT!
-AND WRIGHT BACK AT YA!
-DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU HEAR...
We live in an era of too much information;
-WE LIVE IN AN ERA OF TOO MUCH SO-CALLED PREACHING FROM CULT PULPITS;
-AN ERA WITH SO MUCH INFORMATION THAT DESPITE mike's and roger's BEST MEGLOMANICAL ATTEMPTS TO DO DAMAGE CONTROL, THE TRUTH IS STILL COMING OUT ON THE SINNERNET AND OVER *@#*ING (BLEEPING) CELLPHONES;
an era wherein anyone/everyone can post whatever they want to post on the Internet—unchecked, unverified, unaccountable, unhindered, and unstoppable.
-AN ERA WHEREIN ANYONE WHO SAYS THEY ARE A PREACHER WITH A DEGREE THAT NOBODY HAS SEEN OR PROVEN TO EXIST CAN SAY WHATEVER THEY WANT TO SAY FROM THE PULPIT-UNCHECKED, UNVERIFIED, UNACCOUNTABLE, UNHINDERED, AND UNSTOPPABLE.
(EVEN THOUGH ntcc HAS PAID COUNTLE$$ DOLLAR$ TO THEIR BE$T LAWYER$ TO TRY AND STOP THE TRUTH, THE TRUTH KEEPS COMING OUT ON THE INNERNET AND OVER CELLPHONES.)
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
TO BE CONTINUED IN ANOTHER POST--
BitG
HAVE A NICE DAY OR GSYH
MK-mikey kekel?-SHOOTS HIMSELF IN THE FOOT... PART 2
Someone left an anonymous post with this header:
Anonymous said...
MK Taking a shot...
-----------------------------------
BitG says,
It was very long. I will copy it and use it to describe the ntcc cult to you using mk's post with only a few words changed and with specific examples added. The new things I add will be in ALL CAPS and will be my opinion:
BitG
P.S. mk thanks for doing such a good job describing the cult (In My Opinion--IMO--:-) called new testament christian church (ntcc) with headquarters in Graham, Washington and its (IMO) abusive environment and techniques which mikey kekel, roger wilson davis, and their cult (IMO) cronies employ:
THUS:
CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST:
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Anonymous said...
MK Taking a shot...
mike kekel SHOOTS OFF HIS MOUTH
...
Rumors,
RUMORS, STARTED (IMO) BY PREACHERS WHO BREAK RULES OF CONFIDENTIALITY AND TELL PEOPLE WHO DON'T NEED TO KNOW THINGS THAT WERE TOLD TO SAID PREACHERS IN CONFIDENCE:
EXAMPLE: roger wilson davis DID TELL A MAN AND A ROOM FULL OF PEOPLE "YOUR WIFE WAS TALKING TO A PSYCHIATRIST-OH YOU DIDN'T KNOW? I THOUGHT YOU KNEW..."
BUT rw davis DID KNOW THOSE OTHER PEOPLE THERE DID NOT KNOW AND DID NOT NEED TO KNOW. BUT HE SURE BROKE THAT CONFIDENCE AND / OR SLANDERED? THAT WOMAN...
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
TO BE CONTINUED IN ANOTHER POST--
BitG
HAVE A NICE DAY OR GSYH
MK-mikey kekel?-SHOOTS HIMSELF IN THE FOOT... PART 3
Someone left an anonymous post with this header:
Anonymous said...
MK Taking a shot...
-----------------------------------
BitG says,
It was very long. I will copy it and use it to describe the ntcc cult to you using mk's post with only a few words changed and with specific examples added. The new things I add will be in ALL CAPS and will be my opinion:
BitG
P.S. mk thanks for doing such a good job describing the cult (In My Opinion--IMO--:-) called new testament christian church (ntcc) with headquarters in Graham, Washington and its (IMO) abusive environment and techniques which mikey kekel, roger wilson davis, and their cult (IMO) cronies employ:
THUS:
CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST:
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Anonymous said...
MK Taking a shot...
mike kekel SHOOTS OFF HIS MOUTH
...
gossip,
mikey and rw davis and other ntcc board members ROUTINELY TELL THEIR (IMO) GOSSIPING WIVES AND DAUGHTERS INFORMATION THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO KNOW IN ORDER TO HAVE THOSE WOMEN HELP SPREAD RUMORS (LIKE SO MUCH MANURE AND COW DUNG) BY GOING AROUND TO OTHERS AND DROPPING BOMBS OF POISONOUS INFORMATION SUCH AS "THEY WILL GO AFTER THE KIDS" AND OTHER THINGS LIKE "I DON'T THINK THEY ARE SAVED"
IN FACT rw davis OPENLY ADMITTED TO A CLASS OF ABOUT 300 PEOPLE THAT HE HAD PURPOSELY TOLD ONE BOARD MEMBER'S DAUGHTER SOMETHING SO THAT SHE WOULD SPREAD THE INFO AROUND: (based on memory):
--rw davis: 'I told so-n-so such-n-such. My wife (vicki) was aghast and asked, 'Do you think that was wise?' because she will tell everyone.'--THEN rw DROPS THE BOMB, SO TO SPEAK--'I did it on purpose!' IN OTHER WORDS HE WANTED HER TO TELL EVERYONE...
'I did it because I know she will tell everyone.'--LONG PAUSE WITH THE RAISED-EYEBROW GASSY-PUSS LOOK...
NOW ASK YOURSELF, HOW SICK AND MANIPULATIVE IS THAT?
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
TO BE CONTINUED IN ANOTHER POST--
BitG
HAVE A NICE DAY OR GSYH
MK-mikey kekel?-SHOOTS HIMSELF IN THE FOOT... PART 4
Someone left an anonymous post with this header:
Anonymous said...
MK Taking a shot...
-----------------------------------
BitG says,
It was very long. I will copy it and use it to describe the ntcc cult to you using mk's post with only a few words changed and with specific examples added. The new things I add will be in ALL CAPS and will be my opinion:
BitG
P.S. mk thanks for doing such a good job describing the cult (In My Opinion--IMO--:-) called new testament christian church (ntcc) with headquarters in Graham, Washington and its (IMO) abusive environment and techniques which mikey kekel, roger wilson davis, and their cult (IMO) cronies employ:
THUS:
CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST:
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Anonymous said...
MK Taking a shot...
mike kekel SHOOTS OFF HIS MOUTH
...
baseless accusations,
BASELESS ACCUSATIONS LIKE CALLING BIBLE SCHOOL STUDENTS LIARS BECAUSE THEY DID NOT RAISE THEIR HANDS WHEN mikey kekel WAS SOWING DISCORD AMONG BRETHREN BY SAYING, "RAISE YOUR HAND IF YOU WERE PREJUDICE BEFORE YOU GOT SAVED; O.K. NOW FOR ALL YOU LIARS WHO DIDN'T RAISE YOUR HANDS..."-mk
BASELESS ACCUSATIONS LIKE, "Why do you want to go home and visit your sinner family for the holidays. It's going to rub-off on you."
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
TO BE CONTINUED IN ANOTHER POST--
BitG
HAVE A NICE DAY OR GSYH
MK-mikey kekel?-SHOOTS HIMSELF IN THE FOOT... PART 5
Someone left an anonymous post with this header:
Anonymous said...
MK Taking a shot...
-----------------------------------
BitG says,
It was very long. I will copy it and use it to describe the ntcc cult to you using mk's post with only a few words changed and with specific examples added. The new things I add will be in ALL CAPS and will be my opinion:
BitG
P.S. mk thanks for doing such a good job describing the cult (In My Opinion--IMO--:-) called new testament christian church (ntcc) with headquarters in Graham, Washington and its (IMO) abusive environment and techniques which mikey kekel, roger wilson davis, and their cult (IMO) cronies employ:
THUS:
CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST:
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Anonymous said...
MK Taking a shot...
mike kekel SHOOTS OFF HIS MOUTH
...
outright lies,
OUTRIGHT LIES LIKE HIDING THE GUN COLLECTION AT THE YOUTH CAMP / CAMPGROUND IN SANTA FE, MISSOURI SO THE INSURANCE APPRAISER WOULD NOT RAISE THE INSURANCE PREMIUM ACCORDINGLY...
OUTRIGHT LIES LIKE WAITING UNTIL AFTER THE FIRE MARSHALL INSPECTS AND PASSES THEIR CHAPEL WITH THE GLOBE ON THE END OF IT IN GRAHAM, WA AND THEN HAVING eli PUT A SECOND PHONY PLACARD THAT LISTS A FALSE "SAFE SEATING CAPACITY" NUMBER THAT IS HIGHER THAN THE ACTUAL SAFE NUMBER ALLOWED BY LAW.
THEY JUST LIED TO THAT FIRE MARSHALL; AND HE WOULD BE THE ONE TO PAY IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG IN THAT BUILDING SINCE HE PASSED IT; RIGHT? OR MAYBE eli WOULD BE FOUND OUT AND TAKE THE FALL FOR ntcc...
EVERYTHING IN ntcc IS ABOUT SAVING MONEY EVEN IF IT MEANS LYING AND JEOPARDIZING THE SAFETY OF OTHERS.
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
TO BE CONTINUED IN ANOTHER POST--
BitG
HAVE A NICE DAY OR GSYH
MK-mikey kekel?-SHOOTS HIMSELF IN THE FOOT... PART 6
Someone left an anonymous post with this header:
Anonymous said...
MK Taking a shot...
-----------------------------------
BitG says,
It was very long. I will copy it and use it to describe the ntcc cult to you using mk's post with only a few words changed and with specific examples added. The new things I add will be in ALL CAPS and will be my opinion:
BitG
P.S. mk thanks for doing such a good job describing the cult (In My Opinion--IMO--:-) called new testament christian church (ntcc) with headquarters in Graham, Washington and its (IMO) abusive environment and techniques which mikey kekel, roger wilson davis, and their cult (IMO) cronies employ:
THUS:
CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST:
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Anonymous said...
MK Taking a shot...
mike kekel SHOOTS OFF HIS MOUTH
...
fear-mongering,
-FEAR-MONGERING LIKE mike kekel TELLING BIBLE SCHOOL STUDENTS THEY WERE FORBIDDEN TO GO ON THE INNERNET AND READ ntccXposed AND TRACY'S BLOG and FACTNET--A SITE DEDICATED TO EXPOSING CULTS...
BUT SINCE SOME PEOPLE HAD GONE TO THOSE SITES mikey kekel GOT ONE OF HIS CULT-CRONIE-MINION/LACKEYS TO COMPILE A LIST OF IP ADDRESSES OF THOSE WHO HAD VISITED THOSE BLOGS!
THEN FROM THE PULPIT mikey kekel THREATENS (FEAR-MONGERING):
"I HAVE A LIST OF IP ADDRESSES... YOU CAN JUST HEAR THE HEARTS BEATING..." IN FEAR...
-FEAR-MONGERING LIKE rw davis REPEATEDLY SAYING, "IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, THERE'S THE DOOR. I CAN GET SOMEONE ELSE. I WAS HERE BEFORE YOU."
-FEAR-MONGERING LIKE rw davis TELLING BIBLE SCHOOL STUDENTS:
"If you have money to join CURVES, I am going to rasie the tuition."
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
TO BE CONTINUED IN ANOTHER POST--
BitG
HAVE A NICE DAY OR GSYH
MK-mikey kekel?-SHOOTS HIMSELF IN THE FOOT... PART 7
Someone left an anonymous post with this header:
Anonymous said...
MK Taking a shot...
-----------------------------------
BitG says,
It was very long. I will copy it and use it to describe the ntcc cult to you using mk's post with only a few words changed and with specific examples added. The new things I add will be in ALL CAPS and will be my opinion:
BitG
P.S. mk thanks for doing such a good job describing the cult (In My Opinion--IMO--:-) called new testament christian church (ntcc) with headquarters in Graham, Washington and its (IMO) abusive environment and techniques which mikey kekel, roger wilson davis, and their cult (IMO) cronies employ:
THUS:
CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST:
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Anonymous said...
MK Taking a shot...
mike kekel SHOOTS OFF HIS MOUTH
...
hate rhetoric,
HATE RHETORIC LIKE rw davis SAYING:
"YOU N*GGER!"
"THOSE LAZY ITALIANS!"
-HATE RHETORIC LIKE mikey kekel saying:
"YOU SLUG!"
"THOSE MEALY-MOUTHED, WISHY-WASHY..."
hoaxes,
LIKE mikey kekel SAYING HE WOULD NO LONGER PREACH HOLINESS OR THAT rw davis WAS ONLY GIVING GUIDELINES ABOUT NOT PLAYING SPORTS BUT THEN JACKING UP STUDENTS FOR TOSSING AROUND A FOOTBALL AND INCREASING THEIR WORKLOAD SPECIFICALLY SO THEY WOULD NOT HAVE TIME FOR SPORTS...
(THAT IS ALSO AN EXAMPLE OF ntcc LYING ABOUT SPORTS BEING A SIN, OH BUT NOW IT'S O.K. BECAUSE grant rw davis's GRANDSON LIKES MARTIAL ARTS AND FOOTBALL AND BASKETBALL.)
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
TO BE CONTINUED IN ANOTHER POST--
BitG
HAVE A NICE DAY OR GSYH
MK-mikey kekel?-SHOOTS HIMSELF IN THE FOOT... PART 8
Someone left an anonymous post with this header:
Anonymous said...
MK Taking a shot...
-----------------------------------
BitG says,
It was very long. I will copy it and use it to describe the ntcc cult to you using mk's post with only a few words changed and with specific examples added. The new things I add will be in ALL CAPS and will be my opinion:
BitG
P.S. mk thanks for doing such a good job describing the cult (In My Opinion--IMO--:-) called new testament christian church (ntcc) with headquarters in Graham, Washington and its (IMO) abusive environment and techniques which mikey kekel, roger wilson davis, and their cult (IMO) cronies employ:
THUS:
CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST:
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Anonymous said...
MK Taking a shot...
mike kekel SHOOTS OFF HIS MOUTH
...
slander/libel,
SLANDER LIKE WHAT THEY SAID FROM THE PULPIT ABOUT THE PELFREY'S WHEN THEY LEFT ntcc...
LIBEL LIKE WHAT mikey kekel POSTED ON FACTNET ABOUT VIC JOHANSON'S DAUGHTER'S CHILD...
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
TO BE CONTINUED IN ANOTHER POST--
BitG
HAVE A NICE DAY OR GSYH
MK-mikey kekel?-SHOOTS HIMSELF IN THE FOOT... PART 9
Someone left an anonymous post with this header:
Anonymous said...
MK Taking a shot...
-----------------------------------
BitG says,
It was very long. I will copy it and use it to describe the ntcc cult to you using mk's post with only a few words changed and with specific examples added. The new things I add will be in ALL CAPS and will be my opinion:
BitG
P.S. mk thanks for doing such a good job describing the cult (In My Opinion--IMO--:-) called new testament christian church (ntcc) with headquarters in Graham, Washington and its (IMO) abusive environment and techniques which mikey kekel, roger wilson davis, and their cult (IMO) cronies employ:
THUS:
CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST:
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Anonymous said...
MK Taking a shot...
mike kekel SHOOTS OFF HIS MOUTH
...
and false information
now litter the Internet.
AND COUNTLESS OTHER FALSE ACCUSATIONS THAT POLLUTE THE PULPIT WHENEVER mikey OR rw WANT TO MALIGN SOMEONE'S CHARACTER OR MAKE FUN OF ALL OTHER DENOMINATIONS OR CHURCHES THAT ARE NOT ntcc ETC., ETC., ETC. ...
So today's word of advise from me to all of you is: BE CAREFUL!!!--mk
SO YOU HAVE ENOUGH COMMONE SENSE TO SEE THAT IF mikey kekel AND rw davis DO THESE HORRIBLE THINGS TO OTHERS, OF COURSE THEY WILL DO THE SAME THING TO YOU... WATCH OUT!
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
TO BE CONTINUED IN ANOTHER POST--
BitG
HAVE A NICE DAY OR GSYH
PBK--POT, KETTLE, BLACK--ANONYMOUS/MK'S WHOLE POST
January 16, 2010 1:42 PM
IS JUST THE BLACKEST POT IN THE WORLD CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK!
BG
A Former Lay Pastor said...
"In my opinion NTCC really wants to leave its church members, and preachers broke, unhealthy, and uneducated."
Jeff's Wife said...
I have never seen or heard the NTCC's motives summed up so clearly. The part that speaks so loudly is the "uneducated" piece. Lack of knowledge and education has enabled entire countries to maintain control of the people.
I have a bachelor's degree and was a Major in the Army before I resigned my commission. My status was always either ignored, down-played, or attacked by the pastors and their wives. They, (for a time) kept me "humble" by always accusing me of being prideful. I am just now, after being out for 2 years, starting to realize that there is nothing wrong with having an education, position, and desire to do more for my self-esteem.
When I mentioned my plans to go back to school and work on my Masters to a current NTCC wife, she scoffed at me and asked why would I want to do something like that. I feel sorry for her. The women are liked caged birds with the door wide-open. It's amazing the things we'll convince ourselves of to keep peace in the church.
Jeff's Wife
Wow, my wife decided to post. I found it waiting in the queue. She doesn't post here very often so our readers (in my opinion) could consider this message a rare jewel.
I do. Of course I should; it's my wife.
For all who don't know, my wife was really given quite the hard time by an NTCC pastor. Another tried to give her a hard time somewhat unsuccessfully. She had learned from the first. I regret allowing it for even one second. I eventually put a stop to it but she endured quite a bit until that time came.
Jeff
..Educated Black- Women...of course they felt threatened!
BitG,
I noticed you said Eli Gesang labeled the seating capacity illegally.
My husband did a little work for them and they also have the dorms inspected before they split them into rooms. So the capacity and build is higher and different from what the inspector knows.
I wonder if an inspector went through all the buildings now, what violations he would find.
And in addition to the hate rhetoric you can add:
"I've never seen a homosexual get saved"
"I've never seen a Puerto Rican get saved"
"Mental illness is a judgement by God. Somewhere you left God and he judged you."
BitG I share your indignation.
BREAKING THE LAW, THE ntcc-WAY
Nicole shared,
My husband did a little work for them and they also have the dorms inspected before they split them into rooms. So the capacity and build is higher and different from what the inspector knows.--Nicole
SOUNDS ILLEGAL TO ME!
BitG
Jeff's Wife:
Thanks for posting. It never ceases to amaze me how responsive people can be to the Holy Spirit.
I was wondering the other day when I spoke with Jeff on the phone if you read or participated in this blog. See how quickly God provided an answer?
You made some excellent points about women in the ntcc being like caged birds and convincing themselves of amazing things.
I was thinking about how shocked Jeff was by the testimony of Nicole that started this thread.
And I realized how numb all of us in the ntcc had become to the blatant, rampant, ongoing abuse.
There's a medical term used for evaluating peoples' mental health and personality called: BASELINE.
Someone who is typically manic would be described as BASELINE MANIC.
I guess the ntcc esp. at their Graham campus could be described as BASELINE ABUSIVE or even BASELINE PSYCHOPATHIC--not an healthy environment.
And Former Lay Pastor was right about ntcc wanting to keep people broke, unhealthy, and uneducated. Just as you noted, it is a control technique.
ntcc wants people to be completely dependent on ntcc for everything: tell me whom I may/may not talk to
tell me when to sleep/wake
tell me whom to marry/divorce
tell me what city to work in
tell me how to spend the money I earned
And after I've gone and done all you asked, and have given until there is nothing left--even for me to simply exist, then tell me it is time for me to go...
And tell my friends I just didn't want God.
Buddy, if that is how your god treats people, I don't want any of that!!!
JUST GIVE ME JESUS!!!
BitG
Nicole quoted rw davis saying--"I've never seen a homosexual get saved"--rw davis
BitG says,
Thanks, Nicole for reminding me of that. I'd heard rw make the comment so many times. And I know that the ntcc teaches that homosexuality is synonymous with 'unclean'.
So as I read the Bible and took note how often it shared that the LORD cast out unclean spirits; and all the unclean spirits came out of them, and so on...
And as I read that Jesus Christ the same, yesterday, to day, and for ever...
Well, I just could not reconcile the bible Truth's with rw davis's statements...
Perhaps rw never wanted to see somebody who was homosexual get saved.
Maybe in rw's mind homosexuality is a bigger sin than God can forgive???
Jesus paid for every sin on the cross. He took all sin on Him and He paid the price.
I wish rw davis would get out of the way and let God do His job of saving people and keeping people saved.
In my opinion rw is very loose with souls and considers them to be entirely too much his property to be used, abused, and disposed of according to fulfill rw's lusts...
I can not change rw.
I hope, though, to help people to escape the ntcc trap.
BitG
Roger, maybe if you could remember the last time you sinned, you would be more like Jesus; Who though He never sinned, was gracious, compassionate, and forgiving.
Olive
When I mentioned my plans to go back to school and work on my Masters to a current NTCC wife, she scoffed at me and asked why would I want to do something like that. I feel sorry for her. The women are liked caged birds with the door wide-open. It's amazing the things we'll convince ourselves of to keep peace in the church.
From Jeff's wife.
This is what I love about this blog. other folks can remember something and then it jogs a memory. A good tid bit to share that can help shed light on ntcc and expose them.
When Jeff's wife mentioned about the women in ntcc being caged with the door open. It made me remember rw even using an elaphant in his sermon illistration. Something along the lines about putting up a glass wall to stop the elephant from crossing over. After a period of time the elaphant got tired of always trying to break through and gave up. Then the wall was removed. Even though there was no wall,the elaphant did not even try and go free!
Right from the day you walk into a ntcc church blding. The brainwashing control will begin. First stage is the gushy fake love. Second faze,you need to do this or that if your saved. it is for your own good.
men pretend to preach about going to Bible school, Over and Over and OVer. Until men THINK there called to preach. So they head to WA for the precious BS. Then the rules,polices and the Hooks really dig in!
We all can walk away. But after getting "IN" ntcc. Thinking this is where God must want us. Ntcc says they are doing the will of God. And if we want to do Gods will,we should ONLY stay in ntcc. The wall they use is with words.
Even now,as ntcc changes. Folks do not even try and leave. They are so brainwashed. They don't know how to leave. Just like the elaphant gave us. Folks that have been in ntcc as a minister and wife. They Give up. Go with the FLO!
CM
CM, GREAT ILLUSTRATION!
Jeff,
It is interesting NTCC point of view on morality.
First of all the broad brush of accusing anyone that has a story to tell about NTCC of lying and gossiping.
Now they are trying to cop out and say don't believe everything you read on the internet!
One of the most compelling stories I have read on this blog was the story about D. Taylor and her son.
For those of you who don't remember, the sinless Pastor Davis got on the phone with her under-aged son and accused him of an infraction.
Does anyone know why this story(and many others) would fall under lies and gossip? Does anyone from NTCC have any evidence to refute what happened. Oh let me guess, "it happened a long time ago." This is another excuse NTCC uses when confronted with specific incidences of their shortcomings.
Jeff,
While we are on the subject of integrity, here is another issue that is a problem in NTCC. Maybe you guys disagree with me.
I think it lacks serious integrity for a church to have members collecting handouts(government or other-wise), when all they have to do is have the wife work. If you have child-care issues, or whatever that is understandable.
Number two, it is wrong for a family to file bankruptcy when all the husband(or wife) has to do is work on weekends or during some church services.
Number three it is wrong to marry a woman deeply in debt then have everything charged-off when she stops working.
Lastly holiness women, if you remarry but don't have custody of your children...it is wrong for you not to pay child support.
Anon!
It took me a number of years to regain good health after the long regimen of crappy food/lack of exercise/major stress imposed by NTCC. They laugh and joke about being fat and ridicule responsible eating and working out, but they'll continue to drop like sick flies. Oh, they'll preach at you for working out, but don't expect to hear much about gluttony.
Thank God I have the liberty now to attend to my own health. Maybe that's possible in the new kinder, gentler, NTCC, but no one in leadership will admit things have changed, or that they ever were wrong. My advice: flee without hesitation and learn the truth for yourself.
Angela Reggio (Barden) said...
Angela, were you married to Eric Barden? I understand he died last year. For a long time I felt guilty for helping draw him into the org, and rejoiced the day I learned he left. I wish I would have tracked him down and apologized before he died.
If it is you, I still have some calculus textbooks you gave me when you were going out on the field. Hope you're doing OK.
"--rw davis: 'I told so-n-so such-n-such. My wife (vicki) was aghast..."
Actually, it's Verna.
Vic said...
Thank God I have the liberty now to attend to my own health.
Jeff said...
I'm with you Vic. Thank God I have the liberty now to attend to anything (other than NTCC functions). There were times while I was in the NTCC, especially while in Atlanta and in a few of the serviceman's homes, that I didn't have time to attend to anything say no less my health.
I don't know about the newer, kinder, gentler NTCC, (even though I have a few good ideas) but the old NTCC didn't want to allow you the time to take care of anything. Let me tell you of one of the NTCC schedules that I had to endure while in Atlanta.
Monday: Meeting at the church, or occasionally soul winning with my wife.
Tuesday: Pick people up, Bible study, (if that is what you want to call it?) and then clean up the church when either me or my wife were on the cleanup schedule which was constantly, then take people home.
Wednesday: Another meeting at the church or more soul winning.
Thursday: Pick people up, service and then clean up the church, (when either me or my wife were on the cleanup schedule which was constantly) and then take people home.
Friday: Pick people up, prayer meeting and then some other kind of meeting such as Sunday Schools teachers meeting and then clean up the church and at some point in time take people home.
Saturday: Prayer, soul winning meeting, soul winning, followed by choir practice, pick people up, follow by church service, (having had no time to go home between functions) and then clean up the church, (when either me or my wife were on the cleanup schedule which was constantly) and at some point in time take people home.
Sunday: Pick people up for church by running all over Atlanta, service (if that is what you want to call it), take the same people home by running all over Atlanta often needing to make a second trip back to the church to pick up more people, clean the church, evening service, and then clean up the church, (when either me or my wife were on the cleanup schedule which was constantly) and it wasn't uncommon for the pastor after that to hold some kind of meeting for one reason or another and at some point in time take people home. Mayers was huge on meetings and it was quite common for him to hold three or even four meetings a week for one reason or another.
Looking back on that whole situation reminds me of just how absurd the whole schedule was. It really makes me sick thinking about it because I was the idiot who allowed it. I can't stand the NTCC and the way they use people just to run them off when all is said and done, (if the people won't continue to allow the NTCC leadership to manipulate them).
I can truly say without reservation that the biggest creeps that I've ever met in my life have been pastors and or leaders in the NTCC. These guys can be ruthless and heartless.
Their only agenda is numbers and money and you either totally give yourself over to (their) agenda or they will make your life a living hell and they have no problem doing it. They live for and in the hopes of having their name favorably mentioned by RWD during the next conference or in next addition of the trumpet.
I'm convinced that many of these NTCC pastors have evolved into some seriously sick dudes who don't even realize it because RWD and his henchmen have them so brainwashed.
Jeff
NO RESPECT BEGETS NO RESPECT
Vic,
No worries. Feel free to do whatever with the calculus books.
As for Eric, well, he is in the Lord's hands now. But you should really hear what ntcc did to him. They are such shameful hypocrites. But I will write about that at another time.
And actually, it is victoria; for whom I have no respect and will call her vicki or grandma or any other low-level annoying thing I can think of to convey that point.
her family calls her verna. Maybe her mamma named her veronica; but vicki wants to be a queen so I think she appointed herself the name victoria. ysch. blech. barf.
I hate the phoniness of ntcc that demands respect without earning it.
I don't even know Jeff's wife, but I've got respect for her because she was an Army Major; and who knows what other great things she's done: teaching school, completing college, being a mom.
I saved the best accomplishment for last, since that is a truly wonderful thing.
It annoys me to no end to read of the abuse she suffered at the hands of moronic ntcc preachers who are no more than cookie-cutter bullies patterned after rw davis and mc kekel.
Probably not one of them, or even all six of them put together for that matter, have accomplished anything as fine as she has.
I would happily call Jeff's Wife Ma'am.
She has certainly earned it!
But as for these ntcc bullies who always demand respect but never give it... That is another story.
ntcc 'leaders' are so phony. Why call someone 'Sir' or 'Ma'am' if you don't really mean it? Right, mikey?--Oh, I mean "Mr."--(in keeping with another lost American Tradition or whatever that phony garbage was you tried to peddle off on "Dear Mrs. Machalic" right before you accused her of not being a Christian right after you just got done saying you were not implying that she was not a Christian??? A double minded man is unstable in all his ways....)--ergo "Mr." Girlywind...
Get it now, Vic?
Angela
HOW WILL THE ntcc TREAT ME? THEY WILL TAKE ALL YOU GIVE UNTIL YOU BURN OUT. THEN THEY WILL THROW YOU AWAY AND TELL PEOPLE YOU JUST DIDN'T WANT GOD.
Folks, am I lying here?? Or has that also been your experience as it was for Eric Barden and me?--Angela
Jeff,
Your comment with the ntcc schedule could be a thread!
Just reading it reminded me of so much. I'm amazed what people have given to ntcc only to be dumped on and betrayed by ntcc!
Angela
A kinder, more gentle NTCC? Is there such an animal?
What gets me is the fact that the leadership at NTCC is unwilling to admit to any wrongdoing, or any problems that were so relevant in the past. The only thing I can think of is possibly they are afraid of opening themselves up to some kind of lawsuit possibly. All the people out here want (I believe) is just an apology for the way that they were treated. But, you won't even get that. Let's just pretend that none of this exists and these people will just go away never to bother us.
My understanding is that the numbers are dwindling, and that Church's are closing down. I hope I live to see the day when the Church in Graham is boarded up.
Jeff,
I can't believe we all kept that same kind of schedule. I hate to admit it, but sometimes I volunteered to go to the field(Army) just to get some relief! I got alot more praying and Bible reading done out there!
Anon!
Angela, shame about Eric. Yeah, I get it. Post me at squarepegman at gmail dot com. Anyone else feel free too.
Jeff,
I had stomach troubles in WA. Probably due to stress. But many times I would not go to Church. Due to my stomach. I could have pushed on and gone. But I said I was sick,and I had to stay home.
Rw used to love to bash anyone that HE THOUGHT was pretending to be sick. That we USED our kids to Miss Church. I never faked being sick. BUT, I was happy inside. That I could stay home. Not have to stick those gawd awful curlers in my hair,pull on the icky nylons,put the fake smile on. And head out the door to do what,WORSHIP God!
When I was in the local Church. The man that said he was my pastor. Got up behind the pulpit and BASHEED me and another lady. Said we were LAZY,using our pregnancy to get out of helping,soul-winning,ect. HAD me in TEARS! I felt like the SCUM of the earth. I know the Brothers felt bad for me. All of us were close in this Church.
I am actually healthier now,after leaving ntcc. No God did not strike me with some illness because we left the CULT! The first six months after leaving. I felt a HUGE load was lifted off my shoulders. No longer did we HAVE to support the church and our family. And now we can afford to attend to our medical needs as they may arise. And even gasp...preventive doctors appointments(check-ups,dentist cleanings,ladies wellness checks)
Guess what RW davis,your Wrong. God is outside of ntcc. And God is HAPPY we are not being controlled by a man anymore!
CM
BUS-Y-NESS IS THE BEST SMOKESCREEN--
Anon! said:
sometimes I volunteered to go to the field(Army) just to get some relief!--Anon!
Angela says:
That is so funny! I'm a vet; so I can totally relate! My unit had five duty rosters for lower enlisted G.I.s back in garrison.
Going to the field was the only way to get a break! =D
On a more serious note, though, I believe the ntcc kept us all on such a busy schedule for so many reasons:
1--Inviting people keep$ number$$ up.
2--Busy workers are tired workers who can't do too much thinking or asking questions.
3--Busy workers can't keep an eye on their not-so-busy-'leaders'; so the leaders don't have to worry so much about being caught.
4--Busy workers are easy to control.
Face it folks, if you were a worker in ntcc, you were kept busy on purpose. I believe the 'leaders' had multiple ulterior motives for keeping everyone so busy.
I'll give an illustration from my Army experience:
At one of my duty stations, a male Lieutenant Colonel would hit on his male duty drivers for sexual favors.
Since this was in the days before the infamous, "Don't ask; don't tell" policy, the Lt. Col. would pay $!,000 'hush' money to those who did not appreciate the Lt. Col.'s 'advances'...
Nevertheless, the word was starting to get around. So he then implemented a smokescreen policy: He commanded the CQ (Charge of Quarters) guards in the barracks to inspect ten rooms per building per night with one guard stationed outside watching the windows and the other guard entering the rooms to make sure nobody was 'shacking up'...
It was a crazy policy. And two of the ten rooms had to be females' rooms. I couldn't get any sleep! Strangers busting in the room every night; and you never knew what time they would come in; or who it would be trying to catch a sneak peek that night...
Needless to say the IG (Inspector's General) soon found out about and put an end to that mess and that guy's career.
But it taught me some things.
1--Guilty people try to hide their guilt by accusing others of their own fault: The cheating husband accuses his wife of cheating...
2--People who are sneaking around doing things they should not be doing like to keep everyone else off balance and busy; so they don't have time or energy to suspect what is really going on.
And that sounds just like ntcc and some ntcc preachers I know!--Names withheld to protect the family members.
Angela
Jeff,
A a new topic to discuss.
ntcc Jargon sayings that are so BOGUS!
Ex. You will never be the same once you leave ntcc. Once you heard the word of God preached while in ntcc. You will never be the same.
I know this one is BOGUS! All they taught me,God has wiped clean. Start Fresh and truly learn the word of God. In one aspect,we will never be the same. From the brainwashing that we lived through. The Fear,and control that led our live's. The mental anquish many are still living with. From marriages being broken up,illigal sexual experience's,financial ruin...
We can heal and move onto have a more normal life. But the damage they did,will Never leave a person..
Another saying,With God ALL things are possible.
So you live in the cult. Thinking I can do ALL things as long as I have God. ntcc sends you to a pioneer work. No help whats so ever! The work may never suceed. So you think,what is wrong with me. Isn't anything possible if I have God. So God MUST not be with me!
If you do put this up as a thread. Sure others can think of alot more junk that was told to us over and over and over! Until we thought we believed it. Was just there brainswashing technique's!
CM
CM said:
"... we were LAZY,using our
pregnancy to get out of helping,soul-winning,ect. HAD me in TEARS"
My Pastor did the same thing, even though some of us had morning sickness so bad, we had to pull over to throw up! It was insane!
I never understood how Pastors could get up behind the pulpit, and "bear false witness" against people. I remember one couple the husband had left the org(while his wife stayed) because Rev Davis said something about them that was blatantly untrue. Of course the husband that left was made to look like he was crossed up! When the wife was asked about what Rev. Davis said, she replied "Yeah it was untrue, but God knows."
CM,
I thought of the elephant story Davis told about too. When people want to break an elephant's spirit, they take it away from its parents while its still a baby and tie it up. Elephants are extremely social creatures and the damage this does is permanent.
One of the weirdest things I ever heard Davis say is in a class right after some people split to form HOP. He said it didn't affect him at all. I don't know exactly what his point was other to feed into his self made image that he could be lifted into heaven by angels at any given moment.
Life affects people and the worst thing in the world to see is someone who is permanently broken.
To act like it doesn't reminds me of the creepy Stepford wife story. It is not normal to not be allowed to show emotion and talk about how you really feel.
I completely understand CM and Angela, especially Angela's points about the lessons we learn from ntcc and how they use psychological ways to cover their own tracks.
My favorite memories of ntcc was the road trips and traveleing. I loved being free out on the open road away from it all.
Dawn has been writing the way she felt she was treated by olson and she has a just good things to say because that is what she experienced. I know for a fact that others were not that lucky.
As for BitG, he is on a roll.
For all that I saw and experienced, I still believe that there are good people, although far and few, that want to help people. Thank God dawn never was in the shoes of angela and others.
What BitG wrote is true, because things are said when you have the overseers to the church and while talking you find things out about other preachers and how they relate to each other. They might say something about somebody and you get the idea that they are doing it so that maybe you won't be that friendly with that person.
It is amazing how much info you can gather. Just ask some of the wives a question:How is so and so? and you will find things out that maybe it wasn't your business knowing.
I know that I'm being long but like nicole, we all have experienced different things and have been around different people.
Some may be more ruthless than others, everyone has a different personality.
I'm glad that Jeff has put up with us writing sometimes things that maybe may not have anything to do with what he has posted.
I guess it is just a way of venting our thoughts and making us feel that we are still human beings,in a free country and can decide to stay in ntcc or leave if that is what a person desires without any retrobutions.
blovd
blovd wrote...
As for BitG, he is on a roll.
Jeff said...
Just so you know BitG is a woman. Her name is Angela. She disclosed that recently on the blog.
I understand the way Dawn feels. Most church members never would have a problem with Olson. I happen to be an exception for a few reasons that I've previous discussed. blovd you have never been someone that I've had to quote "put up with". You've always been kind and thoughtful. I'm the one with the tendency to be a hot head. I try to tone it down, but sometimes I'm like Popeye. "I've had all that I can stand and I can't stand no more". Ha, ha. Everyone gets off topic around here certainly to include me.
blovd, having folks who vent here is what keeps this blog going and it also keeps people informed. I know the NTCC is a harmful organization and that's almost the only reason this blog exists. I'm learning that it is a good forum for people to vent and that is a good thing.
Later on blovd,
Jeff
CM wrote...
A a new topic to discuss.
ntcc Jargon sayings that are so BOGUS!
Ex. You will never be the same once you leave ntcc. Once you heard the word of God preached while in ntcc. You will never be the same.
Jeff said...
That is a great idea. I will certainly make that the next thread. We should have fun with that one.
Jeff
Jeff,
My least favorite NTCC jargon is the phrase "gettin' in". The phrase is never directed at a persons true spiritual growth.
For instance: "Look at that Sister read her Bible; she is really gettin in!"
The correct NTCC wikki would say: "Look at that Sister's dress; she is really gettin' in!"
The phrase always made me cringe, because it sounds so cultish!
Anon!
It is amazing how much info you can gather. Just ask some of the wives a question:How is so and so? and you will find things out that maybe it wasn't your business knowing.
Blvd wrote.
I was one of those that shared information that should have been kept between me and the other sister.
In my defense the atmosphere and the preaching. To help your brother out. I remember one instance. A sister shared to be,she felt like she was in a dark depression. Negative talking,not feeling like she was doing anything for God,ect..
I did get on the phone and call Tanya. I had just lost a sister from the Org. That is what it felt like. When a person left ntcc. It felt to me like they had DIED. I could not talk to them,see them. Wiped out of my life!
So when this lady started talking like she was. I thought she was going to leave ntcc. And I was going to lose another really good friend.
MANUPLIATION! Is used ALL the time in ntcc. I thought I was being helpful by ratting out my friend to the leaders wife. In reality i was Gossiping and sharing info. That was between me and that lady.
CM
CM wrote...
I was one of those that shared information that should have been kept between me and the other sister.
Jeff said...
The NTCC promotes dissemination of information. They want it all. During service one time, I heard RWD say, "If you don't want me to preach about something and you don't want to hear it come across the pulpit then just don't tell me".
At the time it sounded like a novel concept but having giving it further thought I realize that you shouldn't have to worry about the pastor blabbing something across the pulpit that was told him in confidence.
NTCC pastors are notorious for that kind of conduct. Their pulpits truly are, "bully pulpits" in most cases. On another occasion during service I heard Kinson say, "I like preaching because when I talk you have to listen".
Basically he was saying that he could say anything to you he wanted and there was nothing you could do about it and you couldn't talk back.
If that isn't a control monger mentality what is? With few exceptions, those NTCC guys are all the same and that is why they stick around.
Jeff
CLASS-ACTION LAWSUIT FOR MENTAL ANGUISH INFLICTED BY ntcc ON MEMBERS:
Any takers?
CM used that phrase "mental anguish" in her Jan. 20 post.
that got me thinking about lawsuits where people are awarded money for the grief they have suffered do someone elses:
MALICE
NEGLIGENCE
THOUGHTLESSNESS
FAILURE TO DO THEIR JOB
and ad infinitum
Think about it. davis and kekel and olson allowing dorsie to keep a minister's license when they know dorsie is going around slapping other people's kids in the face?
So-called pastors using their pulpit to verbally abuse pregnant women to the point where the women are in tears' and as a direct result they do more physical activity than they should, endangering both their health and the babie's lives?
And all this because roger thinks he can tell anyone anything with impunity????
Where's a good lawyer when you need one?
Angela
TO THOSE OF YOU SITTING ON THE FENCE: Telling the truths we know about ntcc, is not fighting God.
We are following the example of Jesus who sharlply rebuked the religious leaders of His day, the scribes and Pharisees, who could 'preach' all day about Moses and the law; but they never lived for God.
Saying is one thing. Doing is another.
JESUS LED BY EXAMPLE FROM THE FRONT LIVING A CRUCIFIED LIFE.
davis DRIVES FROM THE REAR WITH A WHIP AND LIVES IN OPPULENCE.
Jesus would sharply rebuke davis and those who behave as davis and kekel do.
Taking a stand against the hypocrisy in ntcc is not fighting God or God's church.
Naming hypocrisy and condemning it actually defends the true and living churh of God; and lets peopole know God is real.
Jesus didn't die for your sins so you could be the whipping boy in davis's cult.
Jesus paid for your sins so you could be free to worship God, not worship some men who claim to be men of God with their mouths but live lives that Jesus would condemn.
Christ taught that to be great in God's Kingdom one must be the servant of all.
davis teaches you must serve him.
See how idolatrous that is?
STAND UP FOR JESUS AND WALK OUT OF THE ntcc organization.
Your Friend, Angela
Angela said...
CLASS-ACTION LAWSUIT FOR MENTAL ANGUISH INFLICTED BY ntcc ON MEMBERS:
Any takers?
Jeff said...
I think it is a great idea. Of course we could use someone to get the ball rolling. All we would need is a good, highly motivated lawyer who realizes just how crooked and abusive churches like the NTCC can be. Look what happened to the Catholics. It would certainly take a combined effort and someone to head it up.
It is true that a lot of people have been brutally psychologically terrorized by NTCC pastors. That is a fact.
Jeff
"At the time it sounded like a novel concept but having giving it further thought I realize that you shouldn't have to worry about the pastor blabbing something across the pulpit that was told him in confidence. "
He explicitly stated over the pulpit that we were not to ever tell him anything with the expectation of confidentiality; he reserved the right to tell anything to anybody anytime he decided to do it. Well, at least he was upfront, but I have the feeling that he'd been routinely betraying peoples' privacy for years before making that announcement.
Step 3 according to the co-founder of factnet.
"Get real angry and sue your abuser."
Angela,
I was never one that cared to shout out Amen. As if on command. But your post about why we come out and expose ntcc. Gets a loud AMEN!! You put it into words how I have felt since finally leaving ntcc.
Folks,when you leave the Org. Some folks still do not LEAVE ntcc. It took me about six months to actually Leave ntcc. Rid my life of there false teachings. No longer lived in fear of them finding out,seeing me,ect.
Angela and Jeff,
I would be on board with the class action lawsuit! I was one of the pregnant one's pushed to do more then I should have been doing in my condition. There was someone that posted. There wife actually miscarried due to the stress put on her. Not sure if that could get a manslaughter charge.
Many,many of us that left ntcc have been to some sort of therapy. And no it is not because we are twisted up with GOD,Directed at Mike K. I went to therapy to sort everything out. I was diagnoised with PTS!!!!
All the anguish of losing a loved one. Due to ntcc breaking up marriage's.
Then putting that man up in front of the entire Conference, As if a slave on stage for bidding! Look ladies come and get this man for your husband. He is available. While he was STILL MARRIED to Sister Devonshire!
I think we got alot against ntcc to use in a class action suit. If anything,they would get some bad press! And EXPOSE them in the papers!
CM
CM--I think it was M.L. Johnson, Bro Johnson who posted about his wife's tragic miscarriage. It really grieved me to read that.
One of my friend's at an ntcc church lost a baby. She told me about it some time after she and her husband had gone through this.
And I felt so overwhelmed. I did not know what to say. All I could do was hug her; you know? And neither one of us were the huggy-kind.
Now I look back and wonder if the crazy ntcc schedule had anything to do with it.
And her fourth baby she had at home--couldn't afford a doctor or hospital. And I believe that was due to demands by ntcc zealots to have them in every service so the brother lost a great paying job. Paid their tithes though. God what a mess.
They did leave ntcc. But what destruction ntcc did to them.
I'm so sorry I was a part of ntcc for so long. But you know, love is blind. And when you love God and think you're really doing things "as unto the Lord" you can really get suckered into alot.
It took God, time, and pain to get me out of ntcc.
Now it is taking God and time to get pain and ntcc out of me.
But God won't relent! He wants His rightful throne clean and clear of ntcc and their garbage.
Sometimes just reading all that's happened to people is so overwhelming I have to listen to some good God music. Some Don Potter or Third Day or anything that won't evoke images of ntcc.
It's like taking a spiritual shower, soaking in God's presence.
Think I'll crank up some YouTube and do just that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydw2pRNGjU
Angela
Oops. Sorry about the bad YouTube link. Let's try that again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydwy2pRNGjU&feature=PlayList&p=0CA980E92B3CED0F&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=10
Angela
Nicole, that step 3 comment really cracked me up! And you know, at first, I was only kidding. A little tongue-in-cheek to stir the pot. But as I was typing, things just kept coming to mind. ntcc left a rich field to plow when it comes to lawsuit worthy abuses.
Hmmnn.
In the army I had a platoon sergeant (E-6) who was replacing an E-7 whom some of the guys wanted to get rid of; so they turned him in for selling MAYONNAISE to the Koreans on the black market. No lie. Mayonnaise was a black market item.
I couldn't quite get the new platoon sergeant's leniency with those guys who had basically fragged the last platoon sergeant.
Well, he taught me a few things, patiently explaining to this naive Private that some guys just won't change. The only way they will learn to curb certain undesirable behaviour is to
HIT THEM WHERE IT HURTS
These guys, one in particular, loved their free time, their money, and their security clearances which they planned on marketing back in the States once their hitch was up.
But they just couldn't stop being ... jerks? So the one guy lost his free time, his money and his security clearance.
BIG OUCH
Wonder what is precious to ntcc that God will take from them to instruct them that He is God?
Angela
Wow some serious acussations there about the building code inspections. A lot that goes on and now I wonder if with these new facts there will be somebody that will start the ball rolling. I wonder what the ministers that used to come in this blog would say about these things. Who knows maybe this will start something.
I am so sorry for that man that died, I never heard of him but it is so typical in ntcc not to know people because we were taught to stay by ourselves, unless the overseers would come and tell us something. You would never know when the people would be moved to, even if you were close to somebody.
As soon as rwd would say: "don't say anything about your move" that was it. I remember going to a conference and finding out my "close friend" was somewhere else. I was a little dissapointed because I thought she would at least confide in me but no, she had been told by the upper level not to say anything.
That told me right then and there that I had no close friends, not even in those that supposedly loved me.
Why would they want all the secrecy in the first place? So they are moving, so what!
blovd
Somebody related the following that happened not log ago, about a preacher that stood and yelled right in front of all the congregation in a conference.
McDonald preached about how when he was in the phillipines there was a native young woman that was so faithful, she wouldn't eat, just to spend the money in bringing people to the mission there im mindanao. One day he saw her coming from her job, all weak and very skinny but she was going to bring people to church. He was making the point that she was not eating right but she was on fire for God. That was love for God, giving the last cent she had for God. When the altar call was going on, this preacher was so mad that he yelled at mcdonald: WHY DIDN'T YOU GAVE HER SOMETHING TO EAT!
I don't know if this story is true maybe somebody out there can verify this.
I know that that is just so gross to think, a person not eating, but comitting suicide for God.
Jeff,
I'm just sitting here having a pepsi with the devil wondering what the clip art picture is next to this thread topic.
My 4 yr old said one day, "Money doesn't talk". (He looks at the world very literally). I said no, sweetie, money does talk.
People used to preach at me the verse, "Where your heart is, there is your treasure." Well if you take tithes and real estate away from ntcc, what do you have left?
Blovd said:
"Why would they want all the secrecy in the first place? So they are moving, so what!"
NTCC doesn't want anyone to have any real friends in the org or outside of it!
Nicole said:
"Well if you take tithes and real estate away from ntcc, what do you have left?"
DeaD mens bones and whited walls.
"And actually, it is victoria; for whom I have no respect and will call her vicki or grandma or any other low-level annoying thing I can think of to convey that point."
How 'bout Vampirella?
Vampirella? oh, Vic, we must be kind! How about ... "Image of the beast" ? ha ha
I really don't have anything to say about ms davis. I was never one to be smooching to anybody so if she said hi to me or not I didn't care. The only time that I would talk to her would be in conferences and she was the one to control the conversation. It was just about how she was doing this project and how his grandson was in this recital, or how he was excelling in this or that or how her daughter was such a go getter etc, etc. I envisioned a woman of that stature to come and tell me:
"Sis. God loves cares for you and no matter what you are going through, He will see you thru...."
You know something along those lines, a little encouragement, since she was the mother of the org. but no, she was into the material things of this world and at that time, I wasn't in the mood to hear how she was travelling around and buying antiques so that her house would look like a victorian museum. So much for the expectations we have when we are in the need of a word of encouragement. All I know is that she preferred to sit in the front and talk to the ministers wives whose husband are "really" working for God.
blovd
Vic, and double-D, you are both wrong! It is not Vampirella or
image of the Beast.
it is
CRUELla DeVil
;-o
And I can not take credit for that. Heard it somewhere else.
But it is so fitting.
Cruella killing and skinning innocent puppies for their hides to make fur coats for herself.
Hmmnnn
Bible version: Joel 1v7 & Zeph 3v1-4 & Micah 3v1-3
Very sobering because very true.
Angela
Anon said,
NTCC doesn't want anyone to have any real friends in the org or outside of it!
January 23, 2010 2:01 AM--Anon
Step # 1 in the Abuser's Handbook:
ISOLATE THE VICTIM
Nicole wrote,
Life affects people and the worst thing in the world to see is someone who is permanently broken.
Ange says,
Ezek. 37
My prayer for those damaged by ntcc is that God would restore, comfort, establish, heal and bless them as only He can.
Do not give up hope.
ntcc is a corrupt cult of men.
God is all powerful and merciful.
SURELY HE HATH BORNE OUR GRIEFS, AND CARRIED OUR SORROWS: YET WE DID ESTEEM HIM STRICKEN, SMITTEN OF GOD, AND AFFLICTED.
BUT HE WAS WOUNDED FOR OUR TRANSGRESSIONS, HE WAS BRUISED FOR OUR INIQUITIES: THE CHASTISEMENT OF OUR PEACE WAS UPON HIM; AND WITH HIS STRIPES WE ARE HEALED.
--If God suffered for the ungodly, how much more will He restore and heal His children abused by the ntcc cult of satan?
God knows. He sees. He will require it of them and give peace to those left in the wake of ntcc's destructive ways.
Angela
WE'RE HOT, YOU'RE NOT, JUST SEE WHAT WE'VE GOT; US BORG BOTS...
Blovd, I've read so many of your posts. And they resonate with me. Right now I am truly sad and grieved to see how ntcc wears down happy excited Chirstians...
My opinion is that verna has very low self-esteem. Couple that with rw davis's abuse and the result IS a materialistic worldly organization built around hollow people relying on THINGS to bolster their low self-image.
ntcc turned their back on God a very long time ago.
They can still shout slogans; but it is just as empty as the Israelites' shout when the ark came into the camp just prior to their defeat when God judged the house of Eli (I Sam ch. 1-4, e.g. ch 4v5).
With ntcc everything is superficial, not God oriented at all.
And how can verna advise you that God will bring you through, when all her trust is in material wealth and public perception?
You have to own something before you can give it away.
I'm glad you post here.
Angela
to Angela:
thanks for the previous post.
so true. yet we forget sometimes.
polaris
Polaris-- ;-]
"They can still shout slogans; but it is just as empty as the Israelites' shout when the ark came into the camp just prior to their defeat when God judged the house of Eli"
The house of Eli...it's amazing how many parallels there are. It didn't go so well with him, and these modern counterparts will surely come to a similar end for the same reasons.
One of the faults cited against the house of Eli was that of causing people to abhor the offering of the Lord:
"Also before they burnt the fat, the priest's servant came, and said to the man that sacrificed, Give flesh to roast for the priest; for he will not have sodden flesh of thee, but raw. And if any man said unto him, Let them not fail to burn the fat presently, and then take as much as thy soul desireth; then he would answer him, Nay; but thou shalt give it me now: and if not, I will take it by force.
It's still going on!:
"Also, before they took the collection, the pastor's officeworker came, and said unto the man that donated, Give money for the pastor to spend; for he will not have a check of thee, but cold, hard, untraceable cash. And if any man said unto him, Let them not fail to give me a receipt forthwith, and then he may spend as his soul desireth; then he would answer him, Nay; but thou shalt give it me now: and if not, behold, there's the door."
Can I get a witness?
Vic asked...
Can I get a witness?
And Jeff said with a loud voice...
Amen Brother, preach!!! Ha, ha.
Jeff
Vic spun this gem--Give money for the pastor to spend; for he will not have a check of thee, but cold, hard, untraceable cash.--Vic
PREACH!
That is too funny!
The funny part to me is that of all the gyms you can go to, Curves is the only one I know of that is for women ONLY, and the windows are all one-way mirrors, so noone could look in. As much as the women were blasted for being "fat lazy slobs" (his words, not mine) I would have thought he'd applaud those doing so in an environment they didn't have to be immodest around men in. Guess that's not so.
I went to Curves while in ntcc. I brought cloths to change into. And then changed before I left.
Crazy hoops I jumped through THEN. I know go to a gym. Wear my gym cloths to the gym.
"Also, before they took the collection, the pastor's officeworker came, and said unto the man that donated, Give money for the pastor to spend; for he will not have a check of thee, but cold, hard, untraceable cash. And if any man said unto him, Let them not fail to give me a receipt forthwith, and then he may spend as his soul desireth; then he would answer him, Nay; but thou shalt give it me now: and if not, behold, there's the door."
This just had me rolling with laughter - it's so true!!! Thanks for putting it so vividly! lol
"This just had me rolling with laughter - it's so true!!!"
It is true--when I came back from Fairbanks to Graham, I paid my tithes with a check, as usual. Not so, I was told by my old dorm roommate, office drone Paul Jordan, who proceeded to explain that cash was the only acceptable medium of exchange for those who weren't mailing payment. I was dumbfounded, but like a loyal robot I took my check back and shelled out the green.
What about this "your envelope is your receipt" crap? An empty envelope scrawled with an amount isn't a proper receipt at all; they could always claim that they never even saw that envelope. We were such dupes! How about a real receipt with a number on it and someone's signature? Since they claim the church is a business, they should be the first to adopt ethical business standards and practices.
How about some fiscal transparency? Where did all the money go? Oh, we see some buildings and such. But we also see luxurious trappings and large living for the elites, who should be avoiding the appearance of evil by providing full accounting for the money to the people. I know plenty of money was bled from me, and have reason to think my experience was typical; by extrapolation, a LOT of money is involved. How much? They don't say. Where did it all go? We have no way of knowing. But we do know this: it doesn't smell right.
I thought this was an interesting article so chew on it slowly...
Coercion is defined by the American Heritage Dictionary as:
To force to act or think in a certain manner
To dominate, restrain, or control by force
To bring about by force.
Coercive psychological systems are behavioral change programs which use psychological force in a coercive way to cause the learning and adoption of an ideology or designated set of beliefs, ideas, attitudes, or behaviors. The essential strategy used by the operators of these programs is to systematically select, sequence and coordinate many different types of coercive influence, anxiety and stress-producing tactics over continuous periods of time.
In such a program the subject is forced to adapt in a series of tiny "invisible" steps. Each tiny step is designed to be sufficiently small so the subjects will not notice the changes in themselves or identify the coercive nature of the processes being used. The subjects of these tactics do not become aware of the hidden organizational purpose of the coercive psychological program until much later, if ever. These tactics are usually applied in a group setting by well intentioned but deceived "friends and allies" of the victim. This keeps the victim from putting up the ego defenses we normally maintain in known adversarial situations.
The coercive psychological influence of these programs aim to overcome the individual's critical thinking abilities and free will - apart from any appeal to informed judgment. Victims gradually lose their ability to make independent decisions and exercise informed consent. Their critical thinking, defenses, cognitive processes, values, ideas, attitudes, conduct and ability to reason are undermined by a technological process rather than by meaningful free choice, rationality, or the inherent merit or value of the ideas or propositions being presented.
Continued...
How Do They Work?
The tactics used to create undue psychological and social influence, often by means involving anxiety and stress, fall into seven main categories.
TACTIC 1
Increase suggestibility and "soften up" the individual through specific hypnotic or other suggestibility-increasing techniques such as:Extended audio, visual, verbal, or tactile fixation drills, Excessive exact repetition of routine activities, Sleep restriction and/or Nutritional restriction.
TACTIC 2
Establish control over the person's social environment, time and sources of social support by a system of often-excessive rewards and punishments. Social isolation is promoted. Contact with family and friends is abridged, as is contact with persons who do not share group-approved attitudes. Economic and other dependence on the group is fostered.
TACTIC 3
Prohibit disconfirming information and non supporting opinions in group communication. Rules exist about permissible topics to discuss with outsiders. Communication is highly controlled. An "in-group" language is usually constructed.
TACTIC 4
Make the person re-evaluate the most central aspects of his or her experience of self and prior conduct in negative ways. Efforts are designed to destabilize and undermine the subject's basic consciousness, reality awareness, world view, emotional control and defense mechanisms. The subject is guided to reinterpret his or her life's history and adopt a new version of causality.
TACTIC 5
Create a sense of powerlessness by subjecting the person to intense and frequent actions and situations which undermine the person's confidence in himself and his judgment.
TACTIC 6
Create strong aversive emotional arousals in the subject by use of nonphysical punishments such as intense humiliation, loss of privilege, social isolation, social status changes, intense guilt, anxiety, manipulation and other techniques.
TACTIC 7
Intimidate the person with the force of group-sanctioned secular psychological threats. For example, it may be suggested or implied that failure to adopt the approved attitude, belief or consequent behavior will lead to severe punishment or dire consequences such as physical or mental illness, the reappearance of a prior physical illness, drug dependence, economic collapse, social failure, divorce, disintegration, failure to find a mate, etc.
Can anyone in the ntcc tell me why world missions and childrens ministries are still under construction on you churches web page after all the years?
One would think that world missions and children would be more important than the trumpet magazine.
MONEY COMING IN MORE IMPORTANT THAN REACHING SOULS IN ntcc
LTravis said...
Can anyone in the ntcc tell me why world missions and childrens ministries are still under construction on you churches web page after all the years?
One would think that world missions and children would be more important than the trumpet magazine. January 30, 2010 4:28 PM
Ange says,
It's elementary Watson. Anyone who knows ntcc knows they care first and foremost about
MAKING A BUCK.
Angela
Ange says,
It's elementary Watson. Anyone who knows ntcc knows they care first and foremost about
MAKING A BUCK.
----------------------
Well thanks Sherlock I should have known all along. LOL
THIS IS LAME. YOU ARE LAME. YOU S-CK. KEKEL'S BLOG.
In one of many excellent articles written by Casey Hayes on fact net, he discusses limiting people's choices. That's what kekel does on his blog. What a joke. He wouldn't even have a blog if Tracy hadn't started her blog and if ntccXposed had not existed.
kekel is a wannabe.
he started out in ntcc as a wannabe rock star. But he didn't have the talent of Sammy Hagar or the good looks of Eddie Van Halen so he chose the davis route: Religious con-artist.
Religious con-artists are the oldest cons in the world. Just ask Cain and Abel. Religious cons are older than prostitution!
So kekel and davis have perfected their art. Plying themselves as shameless hussies. Which is actually a biblical concept. In Bible speak:
THEY HAVE A WHORE'S FOREHEAD, REFUSING TO BE ASHAMED.
No matter. God sees everything and requires that which is past.
Angela
Jeff,
Was just reading where Angela was quoting from Casey H. Article on Factnet. Which has a wealth of information on there. Exposing ntcc for what they are. A cult!
An idea. Why not go on factnet. Copy and paste. Some goodies on the blog. For ex. use it as a thread.
Factnet really messed themselve's up. When they changed there forum around. Lack of funding.....
But the information that has already been shared is still there. I am sure there are folks on here that may have not read what is on factnet.
Tedious going on there and reading old post?
One thing folks said about Tracy taking down her blog. So much was shared on her blog. Folks that are either stuck in ntcc or even thinking of going to ONE of there service's. Is helpful for them to read. Research for themselve's. And come to the realization. Do not step foot in ANY ntcc church. Even the Mild one's! Because ntcc switches ministers at local churches All the time. So you get a mild minister,then you could get a WACKO minister,then back to a somewhat mild minister. All in a matter of three years!
CM
L Travis / Wastson--LOL too!--Sherlock
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