Kristofer Moore recently wrote of a story where he installed a garage door tension spring for the NTCC. Kristofer told how Gesang (who represented the NTCC leadership) cheated him out of an honest wage after the work had already been completed. The NTCC leadership has always spoke about people being cursed and the law of sowing and reaping.Well coincidentally Mike Kekel recently wrote on his blog that an NTCC overseer had been seriously injured while doing guess what? Working on a tension spring of a garage door. Now if someone who left the NTCC had been injured in such a fashion, an NTCC preacher would have proudly stood up behind the pulpit while proclaiming that God had judged and carried out a curse on such an individual. The NTCC leadership has a history of capitalizing on the calamities and misfortunes that occur to people who have left their church.
Ange, a former NTCCstress who posts here figured out that these two stories had a coincidental correlation. She wrote: "I wonder if this was the door Jim L. Johnson was working on when he got knocked off the ladder and broke his hip and arm? Perhaps Kristofer was already gone from ntcc when that happened to Johnson."
Jeff wrote...
Kristofer most certainly would have already been gone from the NTCC. Had the NTCC leadership not treated Kristofer so badly which resulted in him leaving the NTCC, he quite likely would have worked on the spring himself being a professional at such tasks. As a result the accident would have never occurred. Was the accident a direct result of a curse and Gods judgment? I seriously doubt it (even though according to the NTCC leadership such re-concurrences of GAWDs judgment do take place quite often). For sure the NTCC leadership mistreated and ran off Kristopher, (a professional with garage door springs) and had they not done so, and had they paid him an "HONEST" wage, he quite likely would have worked on and fixed the very garage door spring (referenced in the accident) which would have absolutely prevented the injury situation from ever occurring in the first place.
Just food for thought. Actually this thread has nothing to do with food for thought. I wrote this thread to deliberately get underneath the NTCC leaderships skin for all the years that they've proclaimed Gods judgment on everyone else who decided to leave the NTCC and who were later circumstantially affected by some kind of mishap which had nothing to do with Gods judgment, (contrary to the NTCC leaderships grand proclamations).
Jeff
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteI think your clip art is funny, the whole black-cat curse thing. And that must be even more unnerving to the ntcc folks who hate all cats.
I never would have made the correlation with Kristofer leaving in the way you did.
But if there is a law of sowing and reaping, then ntcc better watch out.
As much as I love the good that I saw in jim johnson, he had, in my opinion, a serious flaw. The flaw perhaps was not being man enough to tell rw davis when enough was enough. But the devestating effect this flaw caused was something else.
By being a Yes-Man to davis, johnson continually repeatedly put the men working for him at risk just to get a job done for rw. The building crew workers were required by johnson and davis to go up on the buildings with no safety gear.
This happened often in Missouri and also in Washington under gesang. ntcc was breaking the law. (OSHA)
God dealt with jim johnson and ntcc about this sin. It is a sin.
But now jim at least knows how serious a matter it is to fall and hit concrete. And he only fell 8-10 feet. The brothers he was slave-driving were placed in greater danger.
There's really so much more to this story. Too many places and people and occurrences.
But jim knows, if he remembers, some of what I'm talking about.
I guess it is between him and the Lord; but perhaps judgments do happen so ALL may receive instruction. If so, then people have to know why judgment came.
And I have no hard feelings as I type these things. You, jim, could acknowledge the truth of what I say; or you can choose to harden your heart AGAIN. It is your choice.
Angela
I really wish I didn't have to even think this way; but ntcc's actions really leave me no choice. Perhaps that is why God has chosen me to bring you this message. No malice.
And you, jim, who know the full story of why Eric left, know what a huge proclamation that is coming from me. But perhaps you are "past feeling" and perhaps you have had your "understanding darkened"...
This reminds me of the time when some brothers were working on the campground during a thunderstorm! A bolt of lightening struck the building and passed between two of the brothers. Later they shared how "God" had kept His hand on them. Wouldn't it have been easier to have used common sense to keep it's hand on you. I mean, even a chicken knows when to get out of the rain!
ReplyDeleteAXP
OSHA is no joke, they will bust ntcc big time. why doesn's someone in the area just keep an eye on the building projects and call osha, they usually respond the same day or the next day.
ReplyDeleteget them in trouble with the law!!! osha's fines are HUGE! you will be touching there "god" (money)
Some die-hard NTCC loyalist preacher will read this thread and angrily say,
ReplyDelete"THAT ACCIDENT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH GODS JUDGMENT. IT WAS JUST A COMMON ACCIDENT AND MISTAKES AND MISHAPS HAPPEN EVERY DAY!!!!!"
Well Jeff says...
Don't forget that you blow-hard the next time you decide to stand up behind a pulpit and proclaim that Gods judgment has been carried out against someone who has left your abusive church.
Jeff
"get them in trouble with the law!!! osha's fines are HUGE! you will be touching there "god" (money)
ReplyDeleteOSHA is no joke. However, I thought everyone that works on buildings are "independent contractors"
"OSHA is no joke. However, I thought everyone that works on buildings are "independent contractors""
ReplyDeleteYeah, that's the scam they use to avoid responsibility. I guess Gesang Enterprises has one customer--the org. Eli was reported to have stated that the company is his in name only, and that RW really calls all the shots. RW's an expert at figuring out ways to evade legal liability. OSHA wouldn't come down on him, just on his victims.
Whoever is carrying the building permit for the job...that could open up a whole nother can of worms!
ReplyDeleteon another note; i have noticed from FaceBook that women who leave ntcc grow in beauty exponentially! nice to see the before and after pictures of some of you ladies looking all worn and hagardly while in ntcc to very pretty with a nice haircut and nice make-up and most of all NORMAL clothing!
"on another note; i have noticed from FaceBook that women who leave ntcc grow in beauty exponentially!"
ReplyDeleteIndeed, the ladies have blossomed in beauty and in knowledge!!!!
It is nice that the internet gives us a true perspective of these women. Not the picture the church fed us of them being "painted up whores" working on the job!
Anon!
I doubt if the "faulty spring" was that of j.j's garage door. I bet moore is like, "hey, don't blame me."
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you started another point jeff, it was getting so long to read all the comments and then you have to go back to what people wrote and it seems that the train of thought gets lost in translation so to speak,
anyways, in deb's blog, I read a posting from dave armer, is he out or is he just coming to post while still in ntcc?
To me the law, OSHA, the money are not the point.
ReplyDeleteThe point is ntcc persistently puts people in danger.
They don't care about anything but money and power.
And woe to you if you get in the way of either one of their gods.
Ange
"I read a posting from dave armer, is he out or is he just coming to post while still in ntcc?"
ReplyDeleteHe and Connie have left. He stated to me that he didn't want to trash NTCC, but now that he's joined the "bad boys' and girls' club," maybe he'll share some of his experience. Dave was my first dorm mate in St. Louis, and he helped me get a job at Grace Sign, where he worked. Dave is one of the humblest and nicest guys I ever met; he always put others before himself. Guys like that are gold mines for the likes of RW, and they're usually the ones who stick it out the longest, just because they are so sincere and conscientious. I rejoiced to hear that the shackles were finally off of them. I know his life is vastly improved already, and it's no doubt getting better day by day, like it did for the rest of us.
I know for me. Since leaving ntcc. Have enjoyed finding my own style(hair,mild make-up) I see it as pampering,being a princess! Little girls get all dolled up. They are not doing it to become a Jezzebel. I don't do it to make myself pretty. But to do something special for me. Pedicure,manicure,fingernail polish.
ReplyDeleteNow my daughter is finding her own style. And not being made to have hair down past her but. Butt ugle hair in my opinion. I used to call my a lion's made. I hated my hair! Did I ever see it as a glory to God? NO WAY! I saw it as a prision sentence. To take care of it,try and do something with it. Stick hot sticks on my head. Just to be like everyone else. Curls all over.
So Glad I am now ME! and not a drone,clone of Tanya K.
CM
Hmmm... this explains why Gesang taught in his class about falling off a building and how God supposedly healed him as he lay in his waterbed in one night.
ReplyDeleteWhat else did I learn in Gesang's class? Super personal information about his first wife that I would rather have not known (if it was even true) and that Gesang could look at a wall plastered full of porn at a worksite and still be saved. Just like Davis could watch tv and be saved, but we were all too weak to do the same (he actually said this in one of the last classes I took).
They can keep their heaven and hell. I believe in karma.
...I can having sex with another man's wife and still be saved...
ReplyDelete...I can drink NyQuil to the point of inebriation and still be saved...
...I can lie to people and still be saved...
...I can break my word and still be saved...
...I can be a hypocrite and still be saved...
...I can tell dirty jokes and still be saved...
Ad infinitum.
Gregory
Nicole said:
ReplyDeleteHmmm... this explains why Gesang taught in his class about falling off a building and how God supposedly healed him as he lay in his waterbed in one night.--Nicole
God does require that which is past. But eli and ntcc will lie and say that was not a judgment. Well, it was. It was to instruct eli not to force people into harms way. But he won't learn. All he cares about is getting another worthless pat on the back from rdub. Don't you get it eli? All your works for ntcc are WORTHLESS in God's eyes because you don't love the brothers. Read I Cor. 13. Do you just memorize that stuff to get another Scooby Snack from rdub or do you want to apply the word to your life?
Worthless works.
You won't even be getting a aluminum foil crown for all your trouble. And based on your own confession that you felt you needed fireman's gear to teach the class about having an impenitent heart, you are really in danger!!!
Folks, here's a clue: If your preacher or teacher has a red face when they are blasting you, THEY ARE THE ONE'S WHO NEED TO PRAY AND REPENT!
But ntcc wants to pitchfork every message onto others, never apply it to themselves first. The husbandman must be the first partaker of the fruit; consider what I say. Has the Lord given you understanding only for you to once again harden your impenitent heart?
Don't want to be you on judgment day!
Angela
elliot gesang's wives need to speak up and share the truth.
ReplyDeleteNicole said...
What else did I learn in Gesang's
class? Super personal information about his first wife that I would rather have not known (if it was even true) and that Gesang could look at a wall plastered full of porn at a worksite and still be saved. Just like Davis could watch tv and be saved, but we were all too weak to do the same (he actually said this in one of the last classes I took).
.......
I wonder what his wives would have to tell us about eli if they only had the voice to do it. Wish they would all get on and let the truth out.
I've seen enough first-hand to see he is abusive. Sandy might disagree. She might feel betrayed, hurt, and angry that I would say such a thing. Abuse victims often do feel that way about their abusers.
Just because you aren't being punched doesn't mean you are not being abused. Abuse comes in many forms. And I've seen it.
I know you think I'm crazy. But you just need to experience for yourself a real love relationship where someone loves you for who you are, not for what you do for them.
I pray God will put the desire in your heart for that. I'm sure if you asked Him for that eli would be gone or have to change. I don't see that in your current relationship.
I see alot of demands and withheld approval like a man does to a disobedient dog and frankly Sandy you deserve way better than that. Remember the coffee cup? You deserve the best. You've always given your best. You deserve an equal love like what you give.
There are thousands of good guys out there who would kill for a chance to have a wife like Sandy. I've seen the care she gives to eli, only to get slapped down by his cruel disapproval. Sickening.
But I can't make that choice for you. All I can do is pray that God will set free the true Christians into good loving relationships free of agendas and strings and double-standards.
..
Back to ntcc
One of things you will see in ntcc is that preachers use the pulpit or
classroom platform to say whatever they want unhindered, unchallenged, unstoppable.
They are not held to the "at the mouth of two or three witnesses" standard that ntcc requires of all others except themselves.
As a result someone like eli can get up and say whatever he wants about Mary and she has no way to defend herself or put her side of the story out there. And ntcc thinks that is o.k. It is not o.k. Because God said at the mouth of two or three witnesses.
But they sure get mad if someone talks or writes about them. And there are way more than two or three witnesses testifying of their sinful ways.
Another hypocritical double standard
brought to you by the not true
Christians cult.
Angela
I have been asked by Steve Tyrer for the old sermons from the 1970's. As I listened to some parts of them- I perceived how cruel certain people were in the "preaching". Mean spirited! Some tried to preach positive- but eech! Gaylord's preaching was heart-felt, even if they overdid the outward holiness part. So much time spent on the outward! No time developing the HEART! JLJ- tried to be earnest, loving, but he was being groomed to be more thich-skinned.
ReplyDeleteYup- people Like Gold- Dave Armer, even Dorsie started out pure hearted. But in the environment of cruelty- what else could they become? Mean!
So I'm taking requests - I even have Espinoza on tape- high quality- direct from PA system... I get this feeling that the holiness they preached was tighter than now! I know Gaylord would preach against rich preachers most likely! We know he disagreed with RW on many points!
IF YOU ARE IN THE MILITARY, PLEASE READ THIS.
ReplyDeleteI've updated my profile to give people an idea what ntcc will want you to sacrifice to be part of the ntcc.
After you give them everything you've got they will cast you out.
I am not the only one saying this.
ntcc is a destructive cult.
Please view my profile.
And serve God as He directs you.
But avoid the cult ntcc.
Thanks!
Sassy
Hey Double-D
ReplyDeleteIt would be great if you could upload that audio of the 1970's preaching to your blog or youtube in an mp3 or something like that.
The world needs to hear what was said back then!
Thanks.
STAY IN ntcc OR ELSE
ReplyDeleteYOU NEED TO STAY IN ntcc; because if you don't:
Who will shine grant's shoes?
Who will buy grant's sports car?
Who will clean grant's pool?
Who will fund grant's education?
Who will scrub grant's floors?
Who will wipe grant's butt?
Who will kiss grant's butt?
Yes, folks, stay in ntcc.
They need you.
Why do you need them?
Angela
thanks vic, for the info about armer.
ReplyDeleteI always wondered when I would see him and his wife in conferences and they were the most sincere people in the org you ever met.
Always polite and looked to you in the eye when they talked to you and would just want to spend a little bit of time to say hi and how you were, never rushing to go and try to go to the restaurant where the rwd crowd would be in.
I guess a body would get all fed up with the way things are going in ntcc. I remember asking connie if she was homeschooling her kids and she would she, No! I don't know if they raised their boys with the same holiness standard that grant was bestowed upon,pardon my sarcarsm. I wish them well in their new found freedom.
blovd
I don't know but when people talk about one being cursed, it makes me think about witchcraft.
ReplyDeleteI don't know why people in ntcc would always think that if something bad would happen to somebody it was because he was being "cursed" by God.
I remember one time this brother was going to conference and he wasn't able to give his tithe envelope to the office before rushing on with the brothers on their way to conference. Guess what? When the brothers found this out they were laughing and going on about how if something happened on the way to conference it probably would be his fault because he had the tithe money with him. Even though they were just trying to be funny still the thought was there.
blovd
Nicole's comment on gesang brought to my recollection another memory when rwd was giving his class on self development. For some reason he went on a tangent and started talking about gesang and how he got married to sandy.
ReplyDeleterwd told everybody in attendance that she didn't really wanted to get married to gesang, and she went to talk to him (rwd) about how she felt that it wasn't the will of God to marry this man, because she felt she was being called to go out on the field and be a pastor's wife not a teacher's wife. She had been saved in a servicemen's home and she really wanted to go out and reach others.
rwd told her that by marrying gesang she was fulfilling the will of god in another way, by helping gesang out and reaching students through gesang.
Some people think they are being cursed by God because that is what is preached and taught there.
ReplyDeleteNot only is it said about people who leave ntcc and/or God, but it was also used against anyone who was struggling with mental issues.
Not only is there no compassion or support in ntcc for anyone dealing with a mental health issue, but I personally heard RW DAvis and Olsen preach and teach that mental illness is a curse from God for disobeying or leaving him.
To top this off, there was a church visitor who was a grandfather of a 5 yr old boy. I was in the 5yr old children's church so I knew the grandpa and the boy. One day I was informed that man committed suicide.
If anyone has a family member or friend who is attending ntcc and they are dealing with any mental health issues whatsoever... you might need to tell them to disregard anything ntcc says and help them get the real medical help they need.
I got into a very heated argument with my husband (who was still pro-ntcc at the time) about this whole issue. How cruel to say such a thing. I mean for crying out loud children can have mental health issues and a church is sick enough to blame it on the person and call it a spiritual problem?
They throw curses at the vulnerable.
Speaking of curses...
ReplyDeleteI remember reading about the King David who was cursed for numbering Israel.
Then I remember RWD saying in conferences:
"NUMBERS AREN'T EVERYTHING, NUMBERS ARE THE ONLY THING"
Then I wonder if the whole Ron Denis/HOP thing was a curse against NTCC for "Numbering the subjects of the Kingdom"
Who Knows......
"Not only is it said about people who leave ntcc and/or God, but it was also used against anyone who was struggling with mental issues."
ReplyDeleteNicole,
That is very sad. Two weeks before I was invited out to NTCC back 94. I was brutally physically/ sexually assaulted by a soldier/classmate at AIT. All the while I had to listen to my attacker's racial epitaphs(so who knows if it was racially motivated)
Anyways I went to church GOT SAVED,FILLED with the HOLY GHOST. My barracks roommates would complain about my sleeping habits (due to PTSD) such as yelling in my sleep, shaking, etc. Sometimes I would not go to sleep, just to keep from being found out. Remember this is while being saved....and totally faithful to the program of God. Still had symptom, even prayed about it.
Oh course I had to listen to NTCCs take on "mental illness" which was erroneous.It really didn't help o hear the liberal use of the N-word either. I often wondered if how they would have felt being called a N***** while someone's hand is around your neck. I would had been thrown out of the military had I went to the TMC. So I sought treatment at a civilian hospital on my own dime. I was doing good and the Drs treatments worked. The Drs treatment was that "helicopter"I had been praying for. However, My husband constantly went off on me , for getting treated. He was sure to tell me the assault was my fault, that I was being punished etc. Guess where he learned that from? The intimidation got so bad I dropped out of treatment. My PTSD symptoms came back with a vengeance. I suffered alone "IN"....let me emphasize "IN" NTCC. My suffering ended when a watchful VA doctor "caught on". Now I am on the right path. Treatment was so simple, I often kick myself for "wasted years".
I am not mad at the Pastors, but I wish they would have put themselves in my shoes. What if I was your daughter or your wife..or you? I'm not saying that God doesn't heal people, because he does. You should listen to your parishioners instead of dismissing them.
I don't want to bash my ex(or the church), because I have forgiven him. So I am signing as....
Waiting to Exhale
JHO- 1977 Conference- re: Missionaries- "God's missionaries don't have TV antenna on their roofs!" So this also implies - God's preachers don't have flat panel TV's/monitors today! Now how many leaders in NTCC do you think have a flat panel TV/"Monitor"??? hmm lets guess... then acc. to JHO- they ARE NOT GOD's MINISTERS. Their words come back to haunt them.
ReplyDeleteOh yes, Anon- I will email if you reveal your email address!
I have Ashmore's and beloved Gaylords and many others! JUst ask Steve Tyrer. I hesitate to release some- because in good faith- I find it difficult to pass on bad/inferior theology.
Yet a few had "knee-ology" which made up for wrong teaching. As could be said- bless their full hearts and empty heads.. well, part empty heads.... Listening to the old sermons of NTCC in the 1970's- one realizes, they had information- but little if any "revelation" of God's Word/Nature/Plans.
rwd told her that by marrying gesang she was fulfilling the will of god in another way, by helping gesang out and reaching students through gesang.--anon.
ReplyDeleteSounds like match-making to me.
Dear Waiting to Exhale,
ReplyDeleteI am so sorry ALL of that happened to you. You really deserve love and kindness. I'm so glad you did get help. Nobody should have to go through something like that without love and support. Thank God He healed you in the sense that you have been able to forgive your ex. I can definitely see how the ugly environment in ntcc would contribute to his actions.
I think you are truly amazing to have overcome these terrible things and remain strong in your faith.
Love, Angela
I little bit of a true story to share.
ReplyDeleteI also was sexually assaulted while I was in active duty military. Mine did not go into full blown rape. But I was assaulted and up until I screamed. He would have stayed! I saw other girls going through tramua. Going through it on there own. Because they were afraid to say anything. I had a good roommate. She went to a female in command. And told her what Happened. I was brought in and questioned. and he was taken care of.
While in WA,all we got shoved down our throat was give Sex to our husband. Or we were in sin. What did that do to me. Make me rebel. And not care for any of it. Which did cause strain in my marriage. I went so far as to put a note up on rw desk before a class.
Something along the line's. If a women was sexually assaulted. Is she sinning if she has trouble fulfilling that part of her marriage. He Ignored the question and crushed it up. Would not even answer it AT ALL!
Been married upteen years now. And it has taken me a long time to really get past that incident in my mind. I can still bring it right back up and remember every moment. From when the solider walked into my room. Pretending to be looking for my roommate.
Mental health is nothing to play around with. I have since leaving ntcc been diagnoised with PTD. I lived through an abusive relationship with my own PASTOR and the leadership that controlled my life in ntcc! i did deal with Depression. Once I stopped pretending I wasn't depressed or had anxiety attacks. I did take some meds. for a while,I did see a therapist. and Guess what it helped. I no longer need either of them. I do have tools to help me. I would have gotten no help if I had tried to tough it out,and suck it up myself!
Folks in or out of ntcc. Have kjust the slightest thought that you could use some help with mental health. Go and see a doctor,therapist. Sometimes all you need is someone to talk to!
CM
CM, That's quite a testimony. It is so terrible that you were assaulted!
ReplyDeleteI'm glad your roommate went to the commanding officer and that it was handled well. Sometimes what happens to a person after an assault is also very traumatic.
I'm beginning to wonder if r.w. has a history of sexual assault. He seems to be incapable of any compassion in this very sensitive area.
That is very ungodly. Christ is all about compassion.
And any sexual assault is so personal, so destructive.
It seems to me rdub's lack of compassion falls under what the bible describes as
"WITHOUT NATURAL AFFECTION"--
not a good place to be in the bible, II_Timothy, 3v1-9...
People who seem to be incapable of compassion remind me of those who kill small animals in front of children to terrify the children. Basically such people are murderers in the making. They get a thrill from other people's fear. Sick.
r.w. has a proven track record of being incapable of compassion. That does not bode well for him.
CM, I am glad you did not let others stop you from getting support. Nobody should go through such trauma without support and love.
It's like Waiting To Exhale wrote, What if that were your daughter or wife or sister?
Knowing what I do now, I doubt r.w. would care about the woman's personal suffering. I think he would only process something like that from a narcissistic point of view. It would only bother him because he would see it as an affront to his power or an attack on his image as the alpha dog. I really doubt he would care otherwise. He just seems so cold to others' suffering.
Just my two cents worth...
Angela
"Folks in or out of ntcc. Have kjust the slightest thought that you could use some help with mental health. Go and see a doctor,therapist. Sometimes all you need is someone to talk to!"
ReplyDeleteEven with medical issues, go to the Dr. Don't try to be a hero or save face with the Pastor by suffering through your injuries. God gave you one body, but because of its fallen state it still needs maintenance. Eat better,exercise, even with getting looks of disapproval!
Rw davis,mike K. and the rest have no comprehension on empathy. Feeling for others. All they got is MOUTH SERVICE. Oh we care for you. But when you really need them to care,for there help. They tell you to go and pray about it. and then exit stage right. No where in sight when it gets tough. When folks need a shoulder to lean on. NO EMPATHY for others at all!
ReplyDeleteGot a few relative's like that. You can be in pain right in front of them. No care on there face at all. Brush it aside. As if something is wrong with me for being in pain.
But then again,MIL has narcassistic characterstics as well!
rw and others do put on a good show. But when it all boils down to it. They are NOT THERE FOR YOU!
CM
Great leaders genuinely care for and love the people they lead more than they love leading itself. Leadership without love degenerates into self-serving manipulation. RICK WARREN
ReplyDeleteDoes this describe ntcc or what. they DO NOT genuinely care for the people in ntcc!! So what have they become leaders that are self seriving manipulation!
CM
Anon said,
ReplyDeleteOSHA is no joke, they will bust ntcc big time. why doesn's someone in the area just keep an eye on the building projects and call osha, they usually respond the same day or the next day.
get them in trouble with the law!!! osha's fines are HUGE! you will be touching there "god" (money)
February 25, 2010 9:21 AM--Anon
....
Angela says,
People in Washington probably did call OSHA because rw davis actually rebuked someone in class saying,
You don't call OSHA to get your boss in trouble!!!
That is how I remember. Maybe the words were different, but that is the sense of what rw was saying.
My husband Eric worked on the building crew. He told me that when OSHA would come out to inspect, elliot gesang would tell the brothers working on the building crew to pack it up. They would be gone before the inspector could do anything.
Face it, on the cultish ntcc campus an "outsider" or "strange" vehicle sticks out a mile away. Then the inspector probably has a clipboard and hardhat... All dead give-aways.
ntcc has a proven persistent pattern of abusing its workers and of putting them in harm's way.
God warns against shedding innocent blood through negligence or accidents: Deut. 22v8:
WHEN THOU BUILDEST A NEW HOUSE, THEN THOU SHALT MAKE A BATTLEMENT FOR THY ROOF, THAT THOU BRING NOT BLOOD UPON THINE HOUSE, IF ANY MAN FALL FROM THENCE.
That is a command from God. It is very specific. ntcc routinely broke this command during my nine years with the borg.
ntcc loves cliche sayings like, The Lord will protect you, brother.
Jesus rebuked satan saying, It is written again,
THOU SHALT NOT TEMPT THE LORD THY GOD.
That was a rebuke.
Get it straight ntcc.
Repent.
God sees.
And God requires that which is past.
These are not my words. Read Matthew chapter four verses 1-11 and Ecclesiastes 3v15 and Galatians 6v7 for yourself.
Don't be fooled. God is not mocked.
Angela
AXP observed,
ReplyDelete"This reminds me of the time when some brothers were working on the campground during a thunderstorm! A bolt of lightening struck the building and passed between two of the brothers. Later they shared how "God" had kept His hand on them. Wouldn't it have been easier to have used common sense to keep it's hand on you. I mean, even a chicken knows when to get out of the rain!"--AXP
Oh, AXP, that is so true! I've heard equally disturbing true stories from building crew members.
Tony Oloans stepped on sheet metal on the dining hall roof at the campground thinking it was secured; but it was not attached to anything.
You've seen how high that roof is. I'm thinking it's a 20 foot drop to concrete. Fortunately for Tony there was scaffolding inside the building that broke his fall!
Talk about tempting the Lord! Oloans and Polk and others at the campground did not have any safety gear. r.w. davis REFUSED to buy any for them FOR A LONG TIME.
Then God sent that "little" storm that squashed the new tabernacle they had been building...
Judgment. (No offense, Jeff.) But I'm SURE that WAS DEFINITELY JUDGMENT.
Why? Because my husband Eric called johnson. We were in Louisville, KY helping the Pettits pioneer a church there. Eric asked johnson on the phone how he was and jlj actually said,
"We've had a setback."--If you know the ntcc CULTure that was quite a confession from an overseer to say anything other than a glowing report of victory.
So jim johnson told Eric how the tabernacle had been destroyed by a storm--shocking--and jlj asked about Eric's news.
Well, E had been working for a roofing contractor doing buildings just like the ntcc campground's tabernacle. One of their workers was critically injured when he fell through a sheet metal roof after he stepped on some sheeting he thought was secured. Unfortunately for him it wasn't. He fell 20 feet to concrete. Massive internal injuries (ruptured spleen, swollen and bleeding organs) and multiple broken bones (multiple ribs, multiple leg fractures and crushed bones) etc. Devastating. I believe the only reason he lived was the mercy and miracles of God...
So ntcc's jim johnson asked what the worker's name was who had fallen like that. It was Jim Johnson.
Uhm, don't wait for the lightning bolt to hit you in the head, folks.
Or don't wait to fall off a ladder to figure this one out.
THE WORKER IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE WORK.
More to come.
Angela
For many years I found it so strange when rwd would begin his famous classes with a question:
ReplyDeleteHow many of you are ready to go with me to Hawaii right now, if I asked you to"
One brother put his hand up and we would just glare at him because we knew he was married and I don't think his wife would like to stay cooped up for an entire week while the husband was away having a good time with rwd.
Another time he asked:
"If I gave you 1000 dollars what would you do with it?"
This time he asked people randonmly and I remember ballard right away said that he would buy a money certificate in the bank.
But all these questions that he would ask the students and now that I look back it would almost seem that he was testing us to see who could be manipulated.
One time the wrights were talking about how the dennises used this same tactic with people. They were very good at this and the people would give and do anything they asked for. I don't know for a fact that this trait they learned from davis because where else would they come up with a thing like that? But it was very weird looking at people try to get close to rwd, it didn't matter what they would have to do to be with him and be in the "rwd circle of friends"
rwd has always had a way of "inviting" people to whatever is going on in the org. It's a way of making the person feel important. The person feels that:"wow the man of god wants me to go, so I'll go" no matter how much money they'll have to spend or how far away it would be. They'll be there because the "man of god" invited them.
In turn these people go around thinking that rwd is their friend, when just the opposite is taking place, they are being manipulated into doing things that they wouldn't do for a relative or x person.
Oh how mistaken we were. We were only jesters that would dance and laugh and sing, and go wherever they wanted us to go, no matter the cost.
blovd
Jesus never manipulates people. But r.w. davis does ALL THE TIME!!! xx
ReplyDelete...he was testing us to see who could be manipulated. blovd
...people go around thinking that rwd is their friend, when just the opposite is taking place, they are being manipulated into doing things that they wouldn't do for a relative or x person. blovd
God is love. God is NOT a manipulator of people!
"But all these questions that he would ask the students and now that I look back it would almost seem that he was testing us to see who could be manipulated."
ReplyDeleteYup. More head games. He was a master at confronting people with situations and then sitting back and observing their responses. It all went in his internal filing system, and he got a pretty good idea of how far he could go with different individuals. One time in St. Louis he announced that he was getting a flat top. Then he started asking others if they would too, and I was sitting up front behind the drums, and he asked me. Of course I said I would, even though getting a goofy '50s haircut was the last thing I wanted to do. But I would have done it for him. He left a message for me later that I didn't have to if I didn't want to. So I didn't. But now I think that was just another test; if I'd have done it anyway, he'd have known that I was putty in his hands. As it was, I was pretty malleable, but not a total pushover. He seemed to understand that to some degree, and I never was subjected to some of his more degrading humiliations. The total pushovers got those.
He might not do everything by the Holy Ghost, but he doesn't do anything by accident.
I remember my first class with mck and he went on a tangent as he always did. He started talking about how that as students in the seminary we should leave all our preconceived ideas behind and focus on bible school and learn. He used that old school song "50 ways to leave your lover."
ReplyDeleteWell, to those that are trying to exit ntcc, there will never be a fair way to exit, just do it,
"drop in the key, Lee. Get on the bus, Gus...no need to discuss much and set yourself free!
blovd
blovd, no need to discuss much--lol...
ReplyDeleteBldvd,
ReplyDeleteSo true about no need to dicuss. No matter what you do or say. LIES will be spread about you once you leave the ntcc cult.
You can sit there and explain everything. They will nod there head. PRETEND to understand. But as soon as you walk out that door. The knife they had hidden will come out. And STAB you in the BACK! So they can start there damage control.
Oh he wants to be of the world.
They are lusting after money.
They were never saved.
Oh they got one foot in the world and one foot out.
JUNK JARGON!!
So for those of you that want to leave. But are afraid to go up to Mikey or rw davis and tell them why your leaving. Don't waste your breath. 100% sure that they will LIE about you no matter what you say or do!
Why do I say this. It happened to me!
CM
Here's a version one of my fellow departees wrote:
ReplyDelete50 WAYS TO LEAVE R. DUBBER
The problem is all inside your head
He said to me
The answer is easy if you
Take it logically
I'd like to help you in your struggle
To be free
There must be fifty ways
To leave R. Dubber
He said it's really not my habit
To intrude
Furthermore, I hope my meaning
Won't be lost or misconstrued
But I'll repeat myself
At the risk of being crude
There must be fifty ways
To leave R. Dubber...
Fifty ways to leave R. Dubber
CHORUS:
You just make it real quick, MICK
Listen to this, CHRIS
You don't need to be slick, VIC
Just get yo-self free
Do what you must, BoGGUS
YOU DON'T NEED TO DUSCUSS MUCH!!!
Just follow ol' Keys, SEE
And get yourself free
He said it grieves me deeply
To see you in such pain
I wish there was something I could do
To make you smile again
I said I appreciate that
And would you please explain
About the fifty ways...
He said why don't we both
Just pray it through tonight
And I believe in the morning
You'll begin to see the light
So I uncorked my stifled brain
And I realized he was right
There must be fifty ways
To leave R. Dubber...
Fifty ways to leave R. Dubber
You just pack up and go, JOE
Take a long hike, MIKE
You don't answer to him, JIM
Just get yourself free
Just head for the hills, PHIL
FREEDOM IS SUCH A THRILL!!!!!
Make like fly, ELI
And say goodbye
Just follow ol' Keys, SEE
ReplyDeleteAnd get yourself free--Vic's songwriting friend...
Does that mean George Keys is out?
He was talking about the baldheaded Keys, who was in Hazzard, KY, Tulsa, OK, and the Philippines. Can't remember his first name (not that we were ever encouraged to use them). Wasn't George the officeworker?
ReplyDeleteVic, Thanks. That would be Ted and Jean and son Teddy Keys. Should hear his story about "Hesh Up, Preachah!"--Hazzard, KY...
ReplyDeleteDidn't know they worked in Tulsa, OK. Thought they left ntcc when they were living at the B.S. campus in Graham; but who knows? We were all told to "Hesh Up!"
Yes, George Keys worked in office...
Angela
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteVic said, [rdub] doesn't do anything by accident...
ReplyDeleteunless he doesn't make it to the
PRIVATE
bathroom on time...
Sassy
I'm done. You people are just so negative and bitter and hateful!!!
ReplyDeleteI'm not gonna read this blog anymore.
Grrr. And they say the world's "going to the dogs" like THAT'S a bad thing. We are more compassionate than you humans. Why, at least we dogs love unconditionally.
I can't understand why you people who blog here hate the ntcc. They're my kind of 'people'.
We hate cats!
Al's Gal
Yo, Al, Any new prospects yet? Man, that gal you're with now is so mean, she'd make me turn 'green'...
ReplyDeleteHunter O.
(Or should I say "MISTER" Orange? Wouldn't want to OFFEND anyone that loves the Lord!)--oh no, OH HO!
Somebody should sneak into those private bathrooms and lock those doors so nobody can use them!
ReplyDeleteI DARE YOU!
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://michaelbluejay.com/burningman/logo.jpg&imgrefurl=http://michaelbluejay.com/burningman/&usg=__dN56XxvdrHY-DtTfHueghrhgdhQ=&h=184&w=271&sz=10&hl=en&start=7&itbs=1&tbnid=DO_vA3CBxDRWWM:&tbnh=77&tbnw=113&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dporta%2Bpotties%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1
Whaddaya bet they put armed guards, I mean, ushers outside those PRIVATE bathrooms now?
ReplyDeleteMaybe they would look like this guy:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://brainstorming.typepad.com/photos/london/londonbg1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://brainstorming.typepad.com/photos/london/londonbg1.html&usg=__RZc8iLOcah10zlCs-gChEkyA0bc=&h=890&w=500&sz=66&hl=en&start=4&itbs=1&tbnid=2i2oy__96mZmfM:&tbnh=146&tbnw=82&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlondon%2Bguard%26hl%3Den%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1
Finker
Finker said...
ReplyDeleteWhaddaya bet they put armed guards, I mean, ushers outside those PRIVATE bathrooms now?
Maybe they would look like this guy:
xoxoxooxoxoxoxoxoxoxo
HA! HA! HA! I copied that URL and pasted it into the address box on a new tab! I about had an "ACCIDENT" myself, I was laughing so hard.
Hey, if you do make it past him, at least if there's no toilet paper you could always use his hat.
Come to think of it, even if you don't make it past him you could still USE his hat. HA! HA! HA!
GSHH OR GSYH, Whichever works for ya!
Stinker
Al's Gal,
ReplyDeleteYou will think we are bitter. Your still under ntcc FOG! So of course you will see what we write as bitter.
If you ever get out from under the brainwashing fog. You will realize we are Sharing our own personal stories,experience's. So if it sounds bitter. Then take a real long look at the ntcc that you THINK you love. We all we in your place.
we joined with such excitment. Thinking we are on FIRE for God. We are going Out and bring in car loads of people to the Lord. But you will find out. Many people can see Right through ntcc. And will not come or will not come after there first visit. Many come out of curiosity,but that is IT!
Pray you will come out from the fog someday! God will help set you Free!
CM
Where's Jeff at.
ReplyDeleteHe is just probably laughing at the things we post here.
Thanks Vic for the "translation" of the old song.
Now that I think about it mck had a way of weaving a thing of his past into what he was teaching or preaching.
I remember when I first met him, I was like, there is no way he belongs here in this org.
He always carried himself like he
was different than the others.
He was always ready to contradict what you said and look at you
to see what you would do.
He wanted to potray the good'ol boy image.
xo
I went to check the comments on the post titled "rw has the women reduced to this" and there is info about people that are still in ntcc.
ReplyDeleteAnge has made comments that are 100% true and typical of the
family in ntcc, specially those
that have been "in" for decades.
Some people may balk at ange for putting private info of others but this is what she witnessed first hand.
It is sad to know what the hamptons went through but it doesn't surprise me a bit.
If you have been in ntcc a little while you will be forced to do
what it takes to carry on
a face that says that everything is fine when you know everything is not
fine.
One story in particular that touches me was the rodrigues when they were starting
out in panama. Becky was saying
that john became so sick he was
just laying there all feverish in mattres on the floor! Remember folks, these
are your well seasoned workers,
faithful to ntcc for decades and
they are reduced to sleep in a
mattress on the floor, with no money to go see a doctor!
But ntcc is winning because the
Lord has opened a door in panama.
Finally the town's doctor who
probably is a "sinner" comes
to their aid and doesn't charge
them anything!
Now folks who is the good samaritan
in this story?
blovd
"Didn't know they worked in Tulsa, OK. Thought they left ntcc when they were living at the B.S."
ReplyDeleteYes, Ted Keys. I'm not sure of the timeline; they probably did leave NTCC when they left the campus. But I know that the Lloyd-Owens were their helpers at some point in Tulsa--actually, I do know that they were there during the McVeigh bombing, which was 1995 (the year we left).
Muppets doing Paul Simon's 50 Ways To Leave Your Lover!!
ReplyDeleteI love the Muppets! They rock!!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous asked...
ReplyDeleteWhere's Jeff at.
He is just probably laughing at the things we post here.
Jeff said...
I've been thinking of new threads to start. I've been pretty busy and I took a break while watching the Olympics and teaching myself more about computers. I've also been contemplating starting my own computer business called, Collins Custom Computers. Basically I would build, customize and sell computers to people who want a desktop which would be more specialized (but not necessarily more expensive) then what you can find in Best Buy or Walmart.
I recently had a computer built with which I've made major modifications and as a result I've found a new interest which has been taking up quite a bit of my time. I've studied the specs and hardware options of virtually every type of computer hardware imaginable. While I was on active duty, I went to the Army's computer analyst course and I was the senior instructor in advanced electronics and satellite fundamentals. Needless to say my background is communications and electronics and computers.
I plan to create and design a line of anti-NTCC blogging desktops to be used by all exNTCCers. Ha, ha, just a little humor but in all seriousness I am considering starting a custom computer business. I've found that I enjoy designing specialized computers quiet a bit so we'll see.
I've also been playing Halo 2 on my new gaming computer with my little boy and we've been having a ball fragging the enemy.
So that is what I've been up to and yes I have been enjoying reading all the comments here. I'll start a new thread soon.
Jeff
Great leaders genuinely care for and love the people they lead more than they love leading itself. Leadership without love degenerates into self-serving manipulation. RICK WARREN
ReplyDeleteDoes this describe ntcc or what. they DO NOT genuinely care for the people in ntcc!! So what have they become leaders that are self seriving manipulation!--CM
CM, that was a great comment!
Angela
super-apostle-status==self deception. I_John1v8. Matt. 5v27-28
ReplyDeleteNicole said...
"What else did I learn in Gesang's
class? Super personal information about his first wife that I would rather have not known (if it was even true) and that Gesang could look at a wall plastered full of porn at a worksite and still be saved. Just like Davis could watch tv and be saved, but we were all too weak to do the same (he actually said this in one of the last classes I took).
--------------
IF WE SAY THAT WE HAVE NO SIN, WE DECEIVE OURSELVES, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN US.
Let's repeat that: If YOU say YOU have no sin THE TRUTH IS NOT IN YOU. Jesus is the way the TRUTH... HELLO!
YE HAVE HEARD THAT IT WAS SAID BY THEM OF OLD TIME, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY: BUT I SAY UNTO YOU, THAT WHOSOEVER LOOKETH ON A WOMAN TO LUST AFTER HER HATH COMMITTED ADULTERY WITH HER ALREADY IN HIS HEART.
That was the Lord Jesus speaking, and I'm sure HE has NEVER missed the Holy Ghost!
Don't lie to yourself and the Holy Ghost about these things. We don't believe you. God knows the truth.
He is the truth. You don't have the truth. You don't have Jesus.
Not True Christians Cult
Angela
Dear Waiting to Exhale and CM and anyone else brutalized by another,
ReplyDeleteI am so sorry ALL of that happened to you. You really deserve love and kindness. I'm so glad you did get help. Nobody should have to go through something like that without love and support.--Ange
Just wanted to say:
Nobody should have to go through something like that "period"!!!
Angela
CM wrote:
ReplyDelete"Bldvd,
So true about no need to dicuss. No matter what you do or say. LIES will be spread about you once you leave the ntcc cult.
You can sit there and explain everything. They will nod there head. PRETEND to understand. But as soon as you walk out that door. The knife they had hidden will come out. And STAB you in the BACK! So they can start there damage control."--CM
That is so true. I don't know why, but I never looked at their lies as damage control; but that is EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE DOING--Trying to stop the bleeding before others wake up and leave. Hmm. So they lie and scare people into staying. BTDT.
Ange
Ange,
ReplyDeleteThanks I am doing well now. I listened to God,instead of man.
WTE
Check it out! I linked my fav song to my profile, hee hee.
ReplyDeletewow, jeff, I was worried for a little there when I didn't see you on your blog. I thought that maybe you were fighting the ntcc lawyers for so much info that has been coming to this blog, but you instead are playing computer games!
ReplyDeletethat is why I love kids, because they are so innocent and real and they would just give their all when you give them some attention and love.
No wonder jesus told us that to inherit the kingdom we needed to be like little children. Have a good weekend you'all
blovd
Jeff feel free to live a little- we who have an extra moment will keep the blog postings going- I see much activity everywhere. The truth seems to be getting out.
ReplyDeleteThey can call us fault-finders- BUT - if there is nothing to fault- there is nothing to find! We did not create the FAULT- we only found it! when there is a FAULT- it signifies- do not build your LIFE/HOME on it- sooner or later it will crash open! in a life-quake. Thank God many are building farther away from the fault-line! Hallelujah!
ntcc bullies vs. real leaders who have BTDT ...
ReplyDeleteFollowing are excerpts from Jeff's comment with a J in front to show Jeff is 'talking' or an A in front to show Ange is 'talking'. GO:
J:
Basically I would build, customize and sell computers to people who want a desktop which would be more specialized (but not necessarily more expensive) then what you can find in Best Buy or Walmart.
A:
Nice!
J:
I plan to create and design a line of anti-NTCC blogging desktops to be used by all exNTCCers. Ha, ha, just a little humor but in all seriousness I am considering starting a custom computer business. I've found that I enjoy designing specialized computers quiet a bit so we'll see.
A:
Ha-Ha! Sign me up for one!
J:
I've also been playing Halo 2 on my new gaming computer with my little boy and we've been having a ball fragging the enemy.
A:
Sweet! Now that's the GOOD STUFF!
And I'm sure kekel and his take all the time together that they want, going to ball games and bluegrass festivals and theme parks (disney, six flags...) getting grant trained in martial arts and who knows what else. Like you wrote, Jeff, Don't steal your child's childhood, kekel didn't steal his son's childhood.
J:
While I was on active duty, I went to the Army's computer analyst course and I was the senior instructor in advanced electronics and satellite fundamentals.
A:
See, people just don't realize how many good, intelligent, motivated people ntcc uses and throws away.
Here you've done all these great things and so did your wife, yet ntcc BUFFOON hirelings posing as pastors think nothing of you. They despise you (set you as nothing in their eyes). They want you being taxi drivers without pay or vehicle or gas provided. They want you to be their janitors and scrub their toilets without gloves or pay or even a "THANK YOU!" Instead they try to separate you and your wife so this so-called man can lash out at her, a woman who has accomplished far greater things than that pup ever has. And he thinks nothing of criticizing her, an experienced instructor and college graduate and major in the U.S. Army because he thinks he knows more than she does about teaching kids?!? Makes me mad! And disgusted.
It also makes me wonder what other abuse he is guilty of, if he is not afraid to rail on someone like your wife who has done all these great things. Maybe he beats his wife or kicks the dog or stuff like that when he thinks nobody is looking. guys like that are total cowards, preying on people they think are weak. But it is the abuser who is weak and knows that he's never accomplished anything. That's why he lashes out. Insecure, like davis.
People do need to know these things. Because that is how it is in the ntcc! So wrong.
I'm so glad we're out.
If you're in, you need to realize what you are a part of; and that every day you stay, you are a partaker in the sins of those men that you hide and allow to abuse others. Sick.
You can no longer claim ignorance and say, We didn't know. You know. And because you say you see, your sin remaineth. Sound familiar? Jesus dealt with the hypocrites in very plain terms. He wanted them to know that they were not fooling anyone. And neither are you. You are only deceiving yourselves. But your sin remains.
Hypocrites choosing to lie and die spiritual deaths. Dead men walking. Dead bones in burial urns. Ugly dead dried bones. Twice dead...
Sorry, Jeff. Started out just trying to say, Good For You! But you know how it is. Once you start thinking about ntcc, their abuses are so in-your-face it just begs a response, a harsh in-your-face response! (Shaking my head.)
Well, anyway, Jeff, Good For You!
Ange
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteIf you were still IN ntcc (and a leader there) you could start a computer business selling Commodore 64's to bible school students and ministers. Then when people complained that they were ancient and outdated and couldn't run todays software or videos-- you could guilt trip everybody into buying them by saying-- "Why do you want to buy sinner computers sold at Best Buy and Walmart instead of computers from a brother? You want sinners to make the profit instead of us? Besides, you don't need video cards and all that garbage-- you're just gonna look at porno anyway". (At least that the way I learned it from RW himself in NTCC).
AXP
PREACH!
ReplyDeleteblovd wrote...
ReplyDeletewow, jeff, I was worried for a little there when I didn't see you on your blog. I thought that maybe you were fighting the ntcc lawyers for so much info that has been coming to this blog, but you instead are playing computer games!
Jeff said...
This is something new to my little boy and yes he and I have been having fun. Like I said I've been spending quite a bit more time on computer hardware / review websites learning about the latest graphics cards, motherboards, processors, CPU fans, hard-drives, power-supplies, memory, and desktop cases. I couldn't even begin to tell you how many hours I've spent studying up on this stuff.
I find it quite interesting and I enjoy it. It's cool to know that you guys were checking up on me and the nice part about it is that it is real and not that same old, "wow brother; we missed you in church" NTCC rhetoric mumbo jumbo. I've also been spending time on Debs blog and her newest thread posted on 3/5/2010 is quite the eye opener. It's amazing that all of us, (obviously including Deb) stayed in the NTCC as long as we did given all the negative and poor treatment that we experienced and endured. Debs stories are clearly some of the most horrendous that I've read. If you haven't read her latest thread go check it out.
Thanks for thinking about me and you all take care.
Sincerely,
Jeff
AXP wrote...
ReplyDeleteWhy do you want to buy sinner computers sold at Best Buy and Walmart instead of computers from a brother?
Jeff wrote...
AXP that is so true. The NTCC leadership is notorious for extorting and using there church members for their own gain. RWD and his henchmen are such crooks and extortioners that it is beyond belief. They always have insisted that their members do things that would monetarily benefit them and they would guilt trip you if you didn't.
The NTCC is one seriously despicable organization. As bad as any that I've seen; on par with HOP. Oh, now that I've thought about it; my next thread will be about a conversation that I had with a mother who's son got caught up with HOP and all the damage that HOP had done to the Mother and her Son's relationship. I will not identify names or circumstances that will allow the HOP leadership and her son to ID her because she is seriously concerned about her relationship with her son becoming more damaged then it already is.
The HOP leadership, (who was well taught by the crooked NTCC leadership) is doing their best to convince her son to alienate her, unfortunately with a good amount of success. It's down right sickening and I despise both organizations (HOP and NTCC). The two are like a bad virus that is doing it's best to spread and infect others. RWD can take credit for creating the whole thing, HOP included. What; RWD created Denis so therefor he is just as responsible for the institution of HOP as Denis is. Believe it!!!!
Jeff
Yo, EZ, What up Big Guy?
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed your Muppet Mania on the Audio Clip. But the Ray Charles link on your web page, wowZEr! Can't get much smoother than that.
I'm gonna copy-cat ya, Big E, and add an old Right Fred Said song to my profile.
Later.
HO
You know Jeff, I was just thinking about this alienation that happens when you first join. I remember that I had a relative in the service and my husband was so adamant about me inviting him out to church, like deb was explaining in her blog about how her ex was always on her about telling her sister about coming to the bible school in st. louis, the same thing happened to me with this relative and finally my relative cut all ties with me because of this situation. I guess the last straw was when my husband himself got on the phone and read him the riot act, telling him that he needed to come to church, when was he going to put god first, etc, etc, and I believe that that is what rwd taught at one time to do but after this tactic failed to bring more converts they all went soft ala kinson. They now allow people to have tv's and come with make-up, you know like any regular church. It's kind of sad when our own families know what is going on but what can they do?
ReplyDeleteYou're talking about this woman with a son involed with hop and she can see what is transpiring with her son yet she can't do anything.
I sometimes wonder if any of the families of the major people in ntcc know of these blogs and what's been said here.
I can't imagine the feeling of some of these parents finding out that their son or daughter are never going to give them any grandkids because they sign up to work a servicemen's home!
Can you imagine if some of these parents knew that their son and daughter are cooped up in an organization doing only what the founder wants them to do? going where he sends them and building only what he wants them to build, with no care for their safety?
Being paid the minimum? I guess the only thing they can get from this is the recognition that they
"work for pastor davis"
blovd
Working for Pastor Davis will garner the highest praise.
ReplyDeleteWorking for Pastor Davis is the greatest of callings.
Gregory
Working for Pastor Davis will garner the highest praise.
ReplyDeleteWorking for Pastor Davis is the greatest of callings.
Gregory
+++
Don't even go there. What a lie!
That leech will bleed you dry and kick you when you're down! He's no pastor.
The Biggest Loser--
ReplyDeleteFor years r.w. davis has been going around teaching,
"Your wife calls you a loser because that is how she sees herself."
Well, I guess r.w. davis is the biggest loser of all, because he is the biggest abuser of all.
For years he has used the pulpit to mock, criticize, and taunt people. And his son-in-law m.c. kekel is a bigmouth just like him.
So by applying what r.w. davis teaches, we see that they hate you because they hate themselves. They know they are big losers, so they call you that.
They sit on their duffs and make fun of you who do the work.
tonya couldn't even hack it on the mission field. She went to the Philippines and was such a whiner they had to bring her back to mamma's bossom in Waahh. (Washington).
You dare make fun of the people doing the work, lining your pockets?
You suck.
Let me say that again.
You suck.
There are people who have overcome great traumas in their lives and given their all to you selfish lying hypocrites only to get backstabbed, lied about, and criticized by you liars who haven't gone anywhere or done anything.
Don't tell me what a great organization you've built!
The PEOPLE DID THE WORK.
All you are is a BIG MOUTH LOSER.
And you know it.
You know exactly what you are and what a lying conniving hypocrite you've always been.
That's why you NEED your Cadillacs and showy homes. You need to feel important because you know you've never helped anyone.
All you do is take advantage of people. You're an expert at using people. i hope God sends you people just like yourself. Oh, wait, you already had denis. Hmmnn. Guess you've got alot more coming though.
Child molestors. Cheaters. Thieves.
Enjoy the judgment.
Just like jimmy johnson lying on the concrete. Bet that hurt. But he didn't care if a brother was gonna fall off the tabernacle.
Or how about all those flat tires rich keener got after his evil 'dad' george spent the summer wishing flat tires onto everyone at the campground. Judgment!
God knows every evil work you've done. May He require every single one of them of you and yours.
Don't forget, these were God's children you've been abusing.
Tie a rope on. Put it around your neck. Isn't that what you said to eric barden? Ok. Your turn.
Angela
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteDon't even go there. What a lie!
Jeff said...
I think you've misread the statement Anonymous. I detect sarcasm in Greg's statement.
Jeff
Angela,
ReplyDeleteThis last post was awesome! Man,you nailed it on this one!
We are Gods children. ntcc love's to promote there children's church. Only reason they do that,is to appear fun,exciting place to be!
If they truly,really loved Gods children. They would not lie about his children! Kinson lied about friends of mine. That I know for a FACT,heard it from his lips and then I learned the truth.
All the horrible place's they put there ministers in to live. The slums,not taking care of the missionaries,where many of us have lived here in the US. trying to eek out a work on OUR OWN! Love to spout off,we are a team. You leave for a work,you go SOLO!
No,all ntcc does is abuse Gods children! Hurt them and then toss them into a ditch. Could case less if we lived or died!
Like Mike k. likes to say GSYH. Go soak your head. Sounds like a playground saying to me!!!
mmmm.because so many of the leaders are immature,full of pride,BULLIES!
CM
"so many of the leaders are immature,full of pride,BULLIES!" ... CM
ReplyDeleteTC says,
PREACH!
Lurch