A few days ago I received a call from a woman who was concerned that her son had gotten involved with HOP. She had been reading this blog, Debs blog, factnet, and other websites which expose the NTCC. She was able to conclude that HOP was no more than a branch of the NTCC. The HOP leadership has brainwashed her son into believing that his Mom is being used by the devil and as a result he very rarely goes to visit her. As usual he believes and tells her that she is quote, "not saved" or right with God, and that she essentially doesn't understand what Christianity is all about. This young guy believes that Denis is some kind of prophet. Needless to say the HOP has this young man quite mixed up and thoroughly confused. Of course he doesn't see it that way and it is such a shame. The Mom is quite heart broken over the whole situation and I don't blame her. This isn't the first time that I've received a call from a concerned Mom who's son has got all mixed up with either HOP or the NTCC. I see the two organizations as equally destructive, one being no better or worse than the other. If I could consider one organization worse I would definitely say it would be the NTCC because RWD molded and formed Denis and therefor RWD created HOP with his own wicked example.
This Concerned Mom didn't know which way to turn so she contacted me with the hope that I could provide her with some helpful information. The sad part is I don't know if I was able to help her at all? I was going to take a shot at talking to her Son but if I did that, the effects could potentially wind up far more negative than positive. The woman's son could possibly decide to thoroughly alienate his mom then, (more so than he already has) because of course he would know that she gave me his phone number. I can't really divulge much more of the conversation we had because if I did, I would risk revealing his moms identity and consequently risk doing more damage to an already shaky relationship between the Mom and her Son.
Churches like this are so destructive, but it's seems apparent that the majority of them are here to stay. Many cults have been around for a long time and I'm sure they've done as much damage to good loving families as the NTCC or HOP. I know this blog has helped folks see the light and I may never see the doors of the NTCC shut but I can surely reduce the traffic that goes in those doors while causing an increase to the number of people who walk out of those doors never to return.
I hope this mom's son will see the light sooner than later and leave HOP for good.
Jeff
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteI think you did the right thing by not talking to her son right now. I know that's hard to say and hear -- we like to be pro-actively doing something -- but I'm going off of how I would look at something like that when I was 'in' ntcc; and make no mistake, my (ex, deceased) husband and I were in hook, line, and sinker. Not many fellas worked on r.w. davis's building crew and we had 21 years combined time in the borg. The loyalty tests were high. yada, yada, yada -- you know how it was in ntcc. And yet at the end of the day, davis basically told Eric to go hang himself! Glad to be free.
Concerned Mom,
It's great you are seeking for yourself what is really going on in ntcc. Prayer is crucial. Don't be afraid to ask your friends or contact prayer lines. Let them know ntcc is a very dangerous cult in that they give lip service to the gospel, but in practice the leaders are hypocrites (from someone who was there). Sounds like you've done your homework so you know the specific examples abound on the innernet.
Just continue to love your son and pray God will protect him from the more destructive policies (like the vasectomy doctrine etc.) and that God will open a door of escape and healing. He has to come to himself on his own though. I think it's best that he knows you love him and will always be there for him.
If you can stand to listen to the ntcc drivel, you may ask your son why he loves it there. I'm sure he is more in love with Jesus and blinded by that love accepts these men at face value based on their testimony that they are 'men of God'. That's what I did. Blinded by love for the Lord into ignoring the obvious. But God had mercy on me and opened my eyes to the truth.
But perhaps by listening to him it will open the door later for him to listen to you. And perhaps by him talking about ntcc, some of the false teachings and phony lifestyles of the leaders will begin to appear in his own mind and heart. The info is right there, hidden behind words of love coming from the mouths of leaders who do not demonstrate that love.
We can not force him to believe anything. The ntcc is subtle and experienced at what they do. Every 'argument' you might bring to him has already been covered by their indoctrination strategies.
I again say to be willing to listen, hard as that is. Perhaps you will learn of specific individuals he admires, such as denis, and can use that info in your prayers for God to gently open his eyes and steer him to a relationship where Christ is always first, where the sinful ways of the ntcc men are too obvious to ignore.
Looking back at my own experience I now see countless times where God had shown me in the scripture what His heart was and how ntcc through policy and practice had violated God's will. But it took time and prayer and (for me) pain to get me out of ntcc. They do look for loyal people and exploit them. But God knows how to deliver the righteous who trust in Jesus.
And for your heart I pray that God will give you the grace to understand you are doing your part as a loving mother and God will respond and do His part as a gracious Heavenly Father. He truly does see and know our hearts. There is great comfort in that!
Angela
Concerned Mom,
ReplyDeleteI will tell a true story. On how my Mom handled our situation.
I first started going to a servicemen's home environment Church. I got pulled in really fast. Military folks tend to get pulled in quick. You go into a home setting,a woman is cooking home cooked meals,you can sit on a couch and visit. Feels so much like home!
well I started going. and my other friends went to the wayside. My mom got anxious about some change's I was putting in place. I love country music,out it went,TV was gone. She asked,so are you going to stop cutting your hair,wear only dresses. She knew the penticostle's from her childhood. Which are also a cult.
So I go on for a month or two. Then bamb I am engaged and all hell broke loose! My Mom freaked out! Thought I was joining a David Curush cult. Besides the killing of it's members. Ntcc does have alot of destructive,controlling factors like all the other cults.
She tosses out the accusation that I am in a cult. I denied it,and denied it. Thought how could this be a cult. I was going to Church wasn't I. I was out inviting folks to Church. Reaching out to the lost. All we were doing was recuiting and taking even more military members out of the military!!
What she ends up doing is laying it low on talking about calling ntcc a cult. She just starts talking,calling and visiting. She didn't change her mind. But it took me many years to realize she was RIGHT!
So concerned mom. Pushing it on your son that this is a cult,there of the devil... It may just push him totally away. keep that line of communication open. So when that fog does lift and pray that it does like it did for many of us. You will be there.
Three years ago,I called my Mom told her. You were right,she was a bit suprised. I then shared so much that I never told her before. Stuff that I tried to pretend were not happening. Because we were doing Gods will,right! No,we were doing rw's will! and now Mike K. will!
it took me upteen years to get out of the cult. Pray that your son gets out much sooner. The sooner the better. Then that brainwashing fog will lift. And he will weep,and apologize if he is anything like I was. I have been making amends ever since!
CM
CM:
ReplyDeleteGreat advice to the Concerned Mom. My family (both sides) did the same thing. They laid off of the overt concerns about the church and instead, just called and visited and LOVED. Unconditionally....which will always win out. Because while in NTCC, we didn't know about unconditional love or concern....everything was tied to our salvation and whether we are pleasing God or not....we were walking a tightrope and as it ends up....our family was our safety net when we made the very difficult move to stop walking the narrow, impossible way laid out by wicked and perverse and greedy men and women.
My heart is with you Mom.
Tracy
Tracy! Good to hear from her.
ReplyDeleteI was wondering if she'd gotten tired of it all. Welcome back!
But getting back to what you posted Jeff about this mom and her anguish about her son, as a parent, I can relate to what she is going through. Specially when it is a son, because men are just not all that open with a mom, yes, you can have a good relationship with a man child but it is different than a girl. You will always be seen as the person that tries to nag at him, in that respect I can just tell her to not say or refute anything he says and just let him talk. If there are things that you know are wrong just keep your lips sealed, and this is so hard to do but as long as you keep the line of communication open you'll do fine. Be the loving mother that he needs right now, otherwise he will see you as the enemy and will not trust you at all. Just remember that there is a special bond since he was in your womb and nobody can destroy that. Will be praying for this mother that God will give her the wisdom to bring her son back.
xo
Jeff, I read your post, and it is very sad what this mother is going through. It is sad when an organization will try to make you cut ties with those that brought you to this world.
ReplyDeleteI'm reminded of how in many services in graham, they preached about how abraham left his land to follow god and then they would get into jesus when he told the disciples "who is my mother and brethren but those that do the will of god" I'm just paraphrasing but you get the drift but my point is that with this kind of preaching you are more eager to reject your family because you think that you are following god. I can go on and on about the many times that I heard it preached about not being close to anybody, and we were not. We were always apart from one another, because there was always permission to ask, although I heard that some of the things have changed. I don't know.
The last time I heard rwd preach, he said "I don't have best friends"
He stopped and looked all around and there was silence, because alot of those people thought that they had that special friend they went to bible school or got saved in the servicemen's home or whatever, but with this statement
he was saying that you should only trust in the organization and nobody else. All the conferences were about,"we are the right organization and if you don't think so then you are not of God."
All the preachers in ntcc think that they are the last chance a sinner will have to be saved.
One time mck said that he didn't think ntcc was the only church that has the truth but he added, "there are others out there, but they look like us and believe like us" implying that if they are not like ntcc they must not be right.
blovd
Concerned Mom,
ReplyDeleteGod will send Christians from other churches your sons way. Hopefully he will be good friends with a male Christian he looks up to.
For now, you can be there for him when he hopefully leaves.
Anon!
Hey Tracy! I hope everything has been going well with you and the family. I was on Deb and Greg's blog and I saw that you found your way there. We are still working on keeping the heat on the NTCC and in this case the HOP and any assistance that you can provide with posting would be greatly appreciated. You've already done so much and I will always respect you as a pioneer at exposing the NTCC during a time when the NTCC had been so effective at suppressing the flow of information. I enjoyed your post and I know that you've experienced the horrors of the NTCC as much as anyone.
ReplyDeleteGood to hear from you, take care and I wish you the best.
Sincerely,
Jeff
blovd wrote...
ReplyDeleteJeff, I read your post, and it is very sad what this mother is going through.
Jeff said...
blovd, you are quite right. It is sad, and the NTCC has put so many other families through the same horrible treatment. Breaking up marriages and separating mothers from their children is about as bad as it gets. Especially when the NTCC and HOP are no more than real-estate holding companies that practice and promote double standards which are full of abusive hypocrites like RWD and Denis.
It's so ironic to me how the NTCC called the HOP "the devil", and HOP called the NTCC "the devil", while they are both so destructive and verifiably full of hypocrisy, double standards and bogus, man-made rules that have nothing to do with Christianity.
What's amazing is what Denis said about the NTCC was true. Denis knew that the Kekels were given special treatment and they constantly broke the rules that everyone else had to abide by. Practically everything bad that Denis said about the NTCC was true. Now on the flip side what the NTCC leadership said about Denis was also true. Denis did some scandalous, crooked deeds before and during the split and those crooked deeds were verified by witness that I know. I was told of those deeds by folks who left the NTCC with Denis and then left Denis and the HOP shortly after the split because they saw how much of a crook that Denis really was.
So the NTCC leadership and Denis are both right. Denis said that the NTCC leadership is a bunch of devils and the NTCC leadership said that Denis is a devil and they are both right which verifies the saying, "it takes a crook to know one".
Jeff Collins
"....everything was tied to our salvation and whether we are pleasing God or not...."
ReplyDeleteExcept that in NTCC "pleasing God" means something different than what it means in the bible...just replace 'God' with 'Rodger W. Davis' and you'll see what I mean.
Vic wrote...
ReplyDeleteExcept that in NTCC "pleasing God" means something different than what it means in the bible...just replace 'God' with 'Rodger W. Davis' and you'll see what I mean.
Jeff said...
Isn't that the truth. In the NTCC it is not about pleasing God. It's about sucking up to the Kekel's and pleasing RWD, period. It's about cleaning Kekel's house. It's about ratting on your friends to RWD to try and gain cheese points. It's about sitting by idly while RWD verbally dogs women to include your wife while you keep your mouth shut.
It's about money and numbers which has been clearly stated (openly in conference) by RWD himself.
As usual Vic, you hit the nail on the head; BING, BING!
Jeff
I should have put p.s. on my post but I forgot:
ReplyDeletep.s.
Give yourself some credit Jeff.
I thing that you did in fact help this lady, just by being there to hear her and by giving her the time,I for one would have liked to have somebody like that that would just listen to what I was thinking.
Many times people just want to vent and say the things that they are thinking and I'm glad that you have this blog for the people to come and say what they are feeling.
Thanks again Jeff.
blovd
blovd said...
ReplyDeleteThanks again Jeff.
blovd
Jeff said...
Thank you. This blog wouldn't have any success if people like yourself didn't post. I'm just another contributor. I'm only free from the NTCCs grips because of guys like Vic and Casey who early on helped me understand what the NTCC is all about.
The early contributors on Factnet and Tracy's blog had more success then they could have ever imagined I'm sure. These blogs and forums get the word out because otherwise the NTCC leadership has had non-impeded effectiveness at stifling the flow of information. The NTCC leaders thrive on secrecy because that is the only way they can save face while keeping a decent image and reputation. RWD absolutely despises the idea of people having the freedom of speech, (unless of course he is entitled such freedom). The NTCC has too many bones in the closet that they don't want let out and that is where we come in. If people know the truth and aren't afraid to admit it, they will depart the NTCC or never join in the first place.
It's nice to be appreciated but once again this blog ain't jack without contributors like yourself blovd.
Have a good one,
Jeff
Jeff said...
ReplyDeleteThe NTCC has too many bones in the closet that they don't want let out and that is where we come in.
Jeff said...
Everyone has bones in their closet so that in itself is not the issue. When you dig up the NTCC leadership's bones their true intentions are revealed. You learn why they are so mean spirited and abusive. You learn that their drive for new converts has little if anything to do with holiness but rather the expansion of their own private agenda driven by greed and the unquenchable desire to control the lives of others. You learn that their so called church is ran far more like a concentration camp / destructive cult then a healthy, loving Christian church. The stories on this blog, Deb's blog and others attest to their cruel ways. Just read the first few threads on Deb's blog. You call that loving Christianity? I call that being a cruel task master / money hungry control monger. That is what's revealed when dig up the bones of the NTCC leadership. It's flat out sickening.
Jeff
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteI wrote many letters to my Mom and Dad and it pains me to write this.
Thankfully my Dad saw through the BS (and I don't mean Bible School either!) and wrote me back stating that the most important thing I have is my family, and he is so right on.
Time and years have healed those wounds. My Dad thought I was throwing my money away (He was right) that I was in a cult (He was right) but they both realized that ultimately I would have to make the decision to leave.
Take Care,
Like Superman says, "I am always around!!"
Bro Johnson
Watch the following on you tube its a blessing
ReplyDeleteJay Cameron's The Church Mafia Interview 1-4
Cult Tactics & Mind Control - BITE
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletePREACH!
ReplyDeleteAMEN!
ReplyDeleteCT was that joe olson in the white shirt and suspenders behind Darth (against THE WALL) in your audio clip video?
ReplyDeleteCan't touch THAT!!
But you should have warned me about the curse words in your Web page! You know I don't like that!
In fact, Darth's dancing seems a bit LASCIVIOUS to me; but I guess if tight football pants are o.k. now then nobody will complain, right?
(Unless Al's Gal is still sniffin around...)
Well, if she is, we'll just remind her:
CAN'T TOUCH THIS!!
HammerTime..
Zeek aka Shaky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76S8Kndnvs0
ReplyDeleteI like this one better- its is shorter and very to the point - The Ministry Machine!
Loved into Obedience To a Cult -- Phase One...
ReplyDelete"I first started going to a servicemen's home environment Church. I got pulled in really fast. Military folks tend to get pulled in quick. You go into a home setting,a woman is cooking home cooked meals,you can sit on a couch and visit. Feels so much like home!" -- CM
The front-line workers in ntcc like Miss Deborah and others who dedicated themselves to reaching the lost really do love God and therefore love souls. These ntcc workers put their all into a sacrificial life of caring for and ministering to others. God sees. He will reward them in a good way.
Unfortunately, the 'leaders' of ntcc are different. They preach "Where's the sacrifice!" while making sure they live luxuriously. They mock the poor brothers and sisters who work for the ntcc and drive "klunkers" and "oil pukers" but make sure that the ntcc founders the davis's buy a new Cadillac when the odometer on the one they own now hits 50,000 miles; or verna gets tired of last season's paint color -- whatever comes first.
The ntcc demands that the workers give every minute of every day to the ministry, while the 'leaders' tool around unaccountable to anyone taking grant k. on vacations to Disney, visiting davis's family in St. Louis and Arkansas, going to Bluegrass Festivals, watching grant play football at his private ($$) academy, Charles Wright Academy.
Meanwhile the busy workers have no time to see or think about this obvious disparity. They're bogged down living in slums like Gasconade because olson on ntcc's board insists that they move into this ntcc property even though a six year old girl was raped on the school bus; maybe the very bus that worker's little girl will now be riding thanks to the loving thoughtfulness of another greedy ntcc slumlord.
Anyway, the workers just love God and don't want to let anyone down.
For the most part ntcc's got them on such a tight schedule, they don't have time to see all this or think about all this.
In the meantime the lost souls of the world who are looking for Christ (whether they know it or not) get pulled into the ntcc. They are bombarded with love at the initial phase.
Just like CM observed about a Servicemen's Home, it feels like home.
But that is only phase one. Over time the hook will be set. If you've ever fished, you know you don't jerk up on the line at the first nibble; you wait for the fish to take a big bite and then WHAM jerk up on the line to set the hook deep. OUCH.
That's how ntcc operates.
to be continued...
Sassy
Loved into Obedience To a Cult -- Phase two and three...
ReplyDeleteThat is how ntcc operates:
Come out to church. Come as you are. Want to stay for cookies? Why don't you come back on Monday night. Sister cooks dinner for us guys at the Home...
So the front line workers love these new folks in. Then phase two starts. If you are a real Christian...
Now the new convert loves God and will do anything for the Lord. They see what the front-line sisters and brothers do. They want to show their love for God. They don't usually know the bible and are constantly told to obey 'the man of God'.
Soon they are doing everything the ntcc teaches them without ever questioning if it is really something that God wants. Their love is turned into a blind obedience to a man who has declared himself to be a 'man of God'...
This is where the convert adopts every ntcc policy as gospel and makes every effort to conform and live up to every demand placed on him / her even though most of those demands have nothing to do with God but with building an empire for greedy men.
Phase three: If you really love God, you belong in the ministry. There is no higher calling (jargon). Time to buy the ten white shirts, wingtip shoes and head off to the B(ible) S(chool) where you will learn the Mormons are a cult -- ha ha -- just look at them on their bikes in their white shirts and ties. ??? Not too different from a B.S. student... but loyalty to ntcc trumps common sense.
And on it goes. A steady stream of fresh recruits supplied by willing workers too busy to realize that their love of God has blinded them to the obvious hypocrisy lived by the 'leaders' of the "organization" --
It's not even a church! Just an "organization" established to make a few families rich and powerful off the sacrifices made by the masses.
Cult. Cult. Cult.
Sassy, BTDT
Ministry Machine... ntcc IS that machine ...
ReplyDeletedouble-D that video pretty much nailed it when it comes to ntcc.
I'll be checking out more of Jay's videos like the Church Mafia one's Learning Grace recommended!
I know it was short and sweet and to the point, DD, but maybe you liked it cause it is titled MM?
JJust KKidding!
Ange
Oh, boy, Now I sound like K.K.K.K.Kenny L.L.L.L.L.L.Loggins singing F.F.FootLoose.... ;~}
You know Jeff, I was wondering if Ange can post her own story from the beginning. I've read tidbits of her story here and there, and sometimes is kind of hard to really follow her story because it is really involved and the way she writes is just so passionate as should be because she really went thru hell. I don't think a person should have to go through what she went through. It pains me to read about how that rwd said for her husband to go hang himself! It is just terrible for a so call man of God to even say something like that! You don't say something like that even to you worst enemy!
ReplyDeleteFor some reason I don't remember her or her husband even though they were up there in the ladder of people that are around the davises, even taking care of the campground!
I mean, you kind of have this idea that is taught in the beginning that to work for rwd is a privilege and you see these people rubbing elbows with the overseers and the board members as some kind of special. Sadly to know, working for rwd is not what is seems to be.
Anyways Ange, I really appreciate
your courage to even come here and make your story known. You have a special place in my heart. I say this with sincerity and it is just not words.
blovd
blovd, thanks for the concern and support -- Love...
ReplyDeleteMy story is one of many that will come out over time. Healing takes time and discussing these things is still quite something for me. I really appreciate all who post because I know the sharing or writing process can be quite a challenge.
Everyone has a story. The more we share, the more healing that comes and the more that others are encouraged to take their step of faith in discussing what ntcc did to them. Hopefully first time visitors to the sites will learn from us not to be entangled in the ntcc web of lies and deceit.
I thank God for the pioneers as Jeff called them in one place; those who started discussions on factnet, ntccXposed, Tracy's blog, Jeff's blog, Phonton's blog, and now Miss Deborah's blog. (Hope I didn't forget anyone!) And I don't mean just the blog owners, but those who post and read.
Information IS power.
It's time to give the power back to the people where it belongs.
Again, blovd, thanks. I also value your posts for the balance and thoughtfulness you bring to the discussions. And I'm not just saying that either. :)
Ange
A Little Tidbit Of Information About Mike Kekel's blog is active again and has some posts waiting in the queue for moderator approval (it's still under comment moderation). ;-)
ReplyDelete"I then shared so much that I never told her before. Stuff that I tried to pretend were not happening." -- CM
ReplyDeleteSassy says,
I think Tracy on her blog described this as the pink elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about. It's right there; but nobody says anything.
"Because we were doing Gods will,right! No,we were doing rw's will! and now Mike K. will!" -- CM
Sassy says,
And that, little children, is how cults work. Replace God's will with the will of a man.
That man becomes your God. You have just denied God His rightful place as Sovereign Lord of your life by willingly submitting to a man who says with his mouth he is a 'man of God'; but with his life he is just a 'man of the flesh' who promotes his agenda to make himself and his family rich. Period.
The lust of the eyes, The lust of the flesh, and the PRIDE OF LIFE DRIVE HIS EVERY DECISION.
If you touch his god's of money or power you will be gone. They will lie about you; and call you a reprobate who just wants sin blah, blah, blah...
But look at the leaders' lives, how materialistic and worldly they are. How they focus constantly on money. That is what they teach about. That is why they don't want you to give your money to the poor or bring poor people to 'their' church (organization).
They only use God to abuse people and promote their selfish agendas.
Sounds satanic to me.
Sassy
Serve God Not Man and definitely not satanic liars...
ReplyDeleteCM said on the thread titled The Case Of The Cursed Spring, comment [# 80]...
"If they truly,really loved Gods children. They would not lie about his children! Kinson lied about friends of mine. That I know for a FACT,heard it from his lips and then I learned the truth.
All the horrible place's they put there ministers in to live. The slums,not taking care of the missionaries,where many of us have lived here in the US. trying to eek out a work on OUR OWN! Love to spout off,we are a team. You leave for a work,you go SOLO!
No,all ntcc does is abuse Gods children! Hurt them and then toss them into a ditch. Could case less if we lived or died!" -- CM
Sassy says,
See. That's what I'm talking about here (in the previous post). And we've all seen it. But those who are in ntcc choose to live in denial and assume that the 'leaders' are telling the truth. But the bible teaches us:
That at the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established.
But ntcc 'preachers' can falsely accuse anyone they want from the pulpit and the people are just sucking it up. They either don't know it's a lie (which I doubt since the Holy Ghost is so real) or they choose to believe the lie.
Either way it is wrong. There has to be more than one witness. And I don't mean two people saying the same thing just because one person told them the same lie. See? You know what I mean?
ntcc loves those little white lies. They love deceiving people. And they do so to build their empire.
davis has gesang lie to the Pierce County building inspectors on so many (maybe all) of the projects that ntcc builds.
davis had gesang lie to the Fire Marshall who inspects the buildings for safe seating capacity signs.
Why would anyone be surprised that davis would lie about them?
davis is a liar. Period.
The bible teaches a faithful witness will not utter a lie.
These men have repeatedly demonstrated a persistent pattern of lying to officials (like the Korean Government regarding Visas and Letters of Support).
That tells me they are not faithful witnesses.
That tells me they are not 'men of God'.
Jesus described such men as being of their father, the devil; because he was a liar and the father of all lies.
Serving davis and ntcc is serving the devil, the father of all lies.
Whom do you serve? Why?
Jesus bought you with His blood.
Will you discard that and trample underfoot the Precious Blood of CHRIST to please a man?
Or will you be a man or leader and disassociate from these liars???
God commands us to withdraw from such. You are disobeying the Lord by staying in ntcc.
The proof is available. Now that you know you will be held accountable for enabling these liars to destroy more souls if you continue to be a partaker in their sins.
I counsel you to leave the ntcc.
Seek God. He's there. Right where you left Him to do a man's will instead of God's will. I know. I did it too. It cost me dearly. You've seen my Sassy profile. And that's only what I lost when I joined ntcc. There were more losses for being 'in' ntcc!
Thank God He had mercy on me to get me out of that cult.
Won't you allow Him to lead you?
Sassy
There were more losses for being 'in' ntcc!
ReplyDeleteSaSSY said.
So true. We left ntcc. But it takes a long time for the brainwashing thoughts,Jargon to leave our brains. I remember after leaving and going to Church or a Bible study. I was afraid to answer a question. Not sure if what came out of my mouth was Biblically correct. or just false teaching I recieved while being in the ntcc cult! for the most part I kept mum. Then I prayed for God to wipe my brain clean of ntcc's teachings. And start from scratch. I would much rather start over. Then try and weed through all the junk to find any grain of biblical truth from ntcc's teachings!
I just bought a new Bible. A NKJV,chronolgoically. I got my joy to read the Bible back!!!
What happens when you get to BS. You are told,your REQUIRED to attend Church,your REQUIRED to read your Bible. DUH!! Why else would I be in BS if I did not enjoy doing those two things. For some reason,making me do them. Took the JOY out of those activities. Where it became a huge relief if I or my child was sick.I could skip on church or on the so called soul-winning.
it has taken a few years. But the enjoyment is coming back!!
Oh and back to even when you leave ntcc,the after affects are still there. My marriage was almost broke up due to junk,tramua from ntcc!
CM
I just bought a new Bible. A NKJV,chronolgoically. I got my joy to read the Bible back!!! & But the enjoyment is coming back!! CM
ReplyDeleteCool!
Gesang Enterprises should be called
ReplyDeleteGesang Fabrications...
eli gesang runs the ntcc's building crew through a shell company called Gesang Enterprises. It has one customer: the ntcc; whose boss is r.w. davis.
davis has gesang lie to the Pierce County building inspectors on so many (maybe all) of the projects that ntcc builds.
davis had gesang lie to the Fire Marshall who inspects the buildings for safe seating capacity signs.
eli should rename his company. It should not be called
Gesang Enterprises;
it should be called
Gesang Fabrications!
Fabrication: noun 1) act of fabricating; manufacture; 2) fabricated article; 3) untruthful statement. Synonyms: untruth, falsehood, fiction, invention [see
LIE
]--The New Scribner-Bantam English Dictionary.
Sassy
ntcc separates families...
ReplyDeleteblovd wrote an excellent comment that I have copied some main points from. I'll put my short comments in brackets [like this]. Or for large comments I'll just break out the old Ange says or blovd says:
blovd says,
Jeff, I read your post, and it is very sad what this mother is going through. It is sad when an organization will try to make you cut ties with those that brought you to this world. [...]
with this kind of preaching [in ntcc] you are more eager to reject your family because you think that you are following god.
Ange says,
This is a very sad reality in the ntcc. The ntcc does separate families to preserve the borg by having more workers who are not, in ntcc jargon,
"hindering the work of God" by:
(a) having children
(b) visiting relatives
(c) caring for infirm relatives
(d) sending tithe money to relatives
(e) you name it: If it takes you or your money away from the borg AT ALL it is OFF LIMITS:
YOU ARE HINDERING THE WORK OF GOD!
Personal Example 1:
My own husband did not attend my father's funeral. Wouldn't want to "hinder the work of God" by missing a day or two of church activities. Besides, where would he get the money for the plane ticket?
Personal Example 2:
In 1993, after we'd been married for ~18 months my husband got a vasectomy so we would not, yup,
"hinder the work of God"
by having children.
Folks, ntcc is a cult!
Ange / Angela (Barden)
to be continued . . .
Permission required...
ReplyDeleteblovd said,
I can go on and on about the many times that I heard it preached about not being close to anybody, and we were not. We were always apart from one another, because there was always permission to ask,
[...]
Ange says,
During my nine years in ntcc grown men and women would ask the ntcc 'leaders' for permission to go visit family etc. and were generally discouraged from doing so!
There were also 'special rules' for Bible School students regarding dating--only allowed if davis or kekel approved of the match and only "on the wall" in the fellowship hall.
I was there the night George Keys proposed to Tanya Wright, ON THE WALL.
Eric proposed to me too, ON THE WALL.
So romantic. Not. Both marriages failed.
[This permissions topic could be it's own thread.]
Ange
to be continued
Isolation facilitates further control and dependency on the cult...
ReplyDeleteblovd said,
The last time I heard rwd preach, he said "I don't have best friends"
He stopped and looked all around and there was silence, because alot of those people thought that they had that special friend they went to bible school or got saved in the servicemen's home or whatever, but with this statement
he was saying that you should only trust in the organization and nobody else.--blovd
Ange says
Wow! That is quite the comment, blovd. There's just so much TRUTH in it.
Cults isolate members from everyone and everything dear to them so that the member will depend on the cult.
Isolation is enhanced by threatening members that bad things will happen if they ever leave the cult.
Look at what r.w. davis said:
No best friends.
Trust only the borg.
CULT CULT CULT
Ange
"...my husband got a vasectomy..."
ReplyDeleteI was thinking we should make a list of how many of us went under the knife, but it seems like it would be quicker and easier to make a list of those who DIDN'T! I guess Mike might have a few companions, but the Big V was all the vogue (for the commoners) pre-Grant.
After we left, I had mine undone. We were past the age of having more kids, but I just wanted to regain everything I could that I lost to that bunch of manipulators.
Wow Ange you are pretty good at bringing the savor to a comment.
ReplyDeleteLike when you add that special ingredient to a dish and makes is taste extra good.
I liked those brackets. It read more clearer.
I'm not the best writer and my sentences come out a little funny but I didn't have the $20k school education that the son of mck is getting. I was too busy funding his own schooling while my children were going to the worst schools or being homeschooled. Going here and there without ever putting roots in just one place.
Oh! Am I sorry for this. I could just slap myself.
blovd
And HOPE maketh not ashamed...
ReplyDeleteblovd,
Thank You for the compliment. But seriously, I couldn't write it without what you said. I needed your comment to help me see the forest through the trees. Everything you wrote had so much weight to it in one sentence. It's like, as I'm reading I'm nodding my head and going, "Oh, yeah. That reminds me of..."
It's like that for so many things on this blog. You read somebody else's heartbreaking story and it reminds you of stuff you've seen.
Everybody brings their own story to the blog!
Your comment about, let's see:
"I didn't have the $20k school education that the son of mck is getting." -- blovd
Wow, that had me crackin' up. I almost did the soda - out - the - nose thing; it was so funny.
But then you really brought your point home with these sobering statements:
"I was too busy funding his own schooling while my children were going to the worst schools or being homeschooled. Going here and there without ever putting roots in just one place.
Oh! Am I sorry for this. I could just slap myself." -- blovd
Ouch. I think we all struggle with guilt for having been part of ntcc! I like the song "Lost Without You Jesus" by Priscilla Miller. Here's a YouTube video for it that is really outstanding:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=606gipOVzRM
I cried the first time I heard it. But I brought it up here because she has this one line it:
"I've walked on the path of the truly unworthy."
I thought about that. To some I guess that would mean "a life of sin"; whatever they think the worst sin is:
Maybe, for a woman, being an unmarried mom who is a drug addict and leaves her hungry child crying, wet, and uncared for while she sells her body to make a score, not to take care of her baby, but to get a fix, to get high again.
Or maybe it's the man in a third world country like Cambodia who sells his four year old daughter to sex-slave traders to pay off his gambling debt.
Or maybe it's the piranhas who feed off such desperate souls who are "the truly unworthy" to the writer and singer of this song.
But as I thought about it, to me, I am "the truly unworthy" for having been in the ntcc for so long; for having sold their ideas to others; for helping more people get messed up in this destructive and twisted cult. That made me "the truly unworthy".
So I can relate in some small way to your anguish as a mother for having been a part of ntcc.
May God have mercy on our souls; and may He keep helping us to warn others to avoid or leave ntcc. That is true 'soul-winning'!
Ange
Just to add some hope to all this:
Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost. (Romans_15v13).
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: (Romans_5v1)
By whom also we have acess by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. (Romans_5v2)
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. (Romans_5v5)
HOPE IN GOD!
I can truly say. I did not sway anyone to join ntcc. We did bring a few folks out. But,were never the gung-ho soul-winners. Those that would bring five-six people for each service.
ReplyDeleteDeep down without acknowleding it. Our concious knew we could not bring others to this cult. We were trapped. others did not need to get involved with it.
Got sent out on a work. We door-knocked and put out flyers All the time. But nobody truly showed much interest. Probably took one look at the way we looked and ran in the other direction.
I do believe God had his hand in ALl of it. From not having people come and join our church. To financial set backs after set backs!
We also did not push the ntcc false teachings on our DD. She had the no pants,long hair. But had no idea why. For some reason we kept putting it off. Telling her why. She never went around calling complete strangers,SINNERS! Children did that in ntcc. And the parents throught it was CUTE!
CM
You know CM, your comment about parents thinking that it was cute when their children would call people sinners: I remember when this same people wouldn't let their children play with others in the org because they thought that they were not "fit" to be friends with. I heard it from one mother saying that she wouldn't let her children associate with so and so because they were not good examples, huh? These were kids for goodness sake! What do kids know about anything except what their kooky parents believe. I remember rwd saying that he knew what the parents were up to, he only needed to spend a few moments with the kids and the kids would rat on their parents. How true!
ReplyDeleteI also remember that comment about spending a moment with our kids and they would rat us out.
ReplyDeleteMy DD was afraid of rw and would never go near him. Didn't have to worry about her ratting us out to him. But to other cult friend members at the time. Yeah,she could have blabbed to them. But never did!
yes,after leaving WA and getting out from under the brainwashing fog they keep you in. We did particpate in life and recreational fun(movie's,parks,race's) and gasp watched TV on our computer!
Rw also said,he could spend a few moments in conversation with an adult. And know the condition of there heart! AS IF! His own heart is BLACK,and EVIL!
Funny,I never kept my DD from playing with kids in her school,where we lived. I was watchful as any parent would be. But she went to sleepovers with kids we lived around and she went to school with. that I am so thankful we did that. She was much less sheltered then MANY kids in ntcc are! Which is why some girls just get married and stay. They are AFRAID of the world and what is OUT there! So they play it safe. Get married to a man in ntcc. and never venture to far away from the controls ntcc has on people's live's!
CM
Considering ntcc, consider this -- Your little girl's life in the ntcc...
ReplyDeleteCM, which stands for Christian Mom wrote something about her daughter's life being less sheltered than the life of a typical ntcc youngster. Here's some of what she wrote; I've added a few things in [brackets]:
"Funny,I never kept my DD [Dear Daughter] from playing with kids in her school,where we lived."
[Most ntcc parents are afraid to allow their kids to interact with children if those children's parents don't attend ntcc. Cult isolation mentality.] -- Ange
"I was watchful as any parent would be. But she went to sleepovers with kids we lived around and she went to school with." -- CM
[This allowed CM's DD to see that even though they don't go to ntcc, people can still be Christians or nice people. Also CM's DD would be able to watch TV or play video games; something kids in ntcc were NOT ALLOWED to do. Of course, the ntcc rulers, the kekel's son got a free pass on all these rules when he was growing up. He watched DVD movies on his computer and played sports in school -- something members' children were NOT ALLOWED to do. Cult double standards and hypocrisy.] -- Ange
to be continued...
Part two of considering you little girl's life in ntcc...
ReplyDeleteCM said,
"that I am so thankful we did that. She was much less sheltered then MANY kids in ntcc are! Which is why some girls just get married and stay. They are AFRAID of the world and what is OUT there! So they play it safe. Get married to a man in ntcc. and never venture to far away from the controls ntcc has on people's live's!" -- CM
Ange says,
This fear is a reality in the lives of all members in the ntcc. They are afraid to break the rules that the rulers make (but the rulers don't keep those rules for themselves or for their children.) But the members are brow-beaten into obedience and publicly humiliated for any infraction or even perceived breaking of the rules.
Many members live in communities where most everyone else is a ntcc member. There is a definite spy network in effect. If little Johnny or Joanie does or says something, the ntcc rulers will hear about it and swift action will be taken.
Yes the fear is real. -- Ange
to be continued...
Part three of considering your little girl's life in ntcc...
ReplyDeleteAnge says,
So these girls do seek ntcc spouses. They are taught every day of their lives that all other people "outside" ntcc (cult loaded jargon creating an us vs. them mentality) are "not right with God". They are taught not to marry unbelievers (partly true but with too broad an application on 'unbelievers' meaning anyone not in ntcc...) Anyone freakishly lucky enough to marry someone "outside" of ntcc will be expected to get their spouse "in" ntcc; or pressure will be put on them to leave their spouse in order to stay in the ntcc.
Also any girl physically able to have children is considered fair game on the dating market, regardless of her age or the age of the man interested. The founder's daughter was being dated and pawed by the current ntcc president when she was between 14-16 years old and he was 23-25 years old. In a normal environment she would be seen as a minor and he as an
adult; and his actions would land him on the sex offender's registry. In ntcc it was ok. In fact, he got promoted to be the ntcc President. Sick.
to be continued...
Ange
Part four in considering your daughter's life in thee ntcc...
ReplyDeleteThe REAL REASON FOR THE VASECTOMY POLICY...
In my opinion the next generation of ntcc children WILL be lining up to have sex with the ntcc president. They are already taught to fear him more than God. They are already taught "it is a privilege to take care of the man of God" and they currently line up to do every other domestic duty for the president (cleaning his house, doing his shopping, ironing his clothes, doing his laudry, fetching his dry cleaning etc).
Plus the men are encouraged to get vasectomies so they won't "hinder the work of the Lord" by having children. So it would be a short step to take for the president to declare he decided to "bless" the daughters in ntcc by "allowing them the privilege" of having sex with him and having his child...
Stranger things have happened and the environment in ntcc is perfect for just such a wacky thing to occur.
Does that sound like an healthy environment for your little girl?
I didn't think so either.
Good post, CM!
Ange
P.S. In case you missed it the first time, it's just an opinion; but it sure does look bad for the ntcc, the way things have been going. They are one step away from such deviant behavior. IMO
BTW, all you ntcc loyalists can get as mad at me as you want. Or you can open your eyes and hearts and realize the ntcc is not godly. Ange
ReplyDeleteWow,Ange.
ReplyDeleteAwesome job at taking my post. breaking it down and adding more to it. The more folks hear from us that are out. That do know what we are talking about. The better.
Folks like one lady I talked to .is afraid to come on here. She knows everything does not add up. But she feels she has the conviction from God,doing what God wants her to be doing. So nothing else matters. if she came on here. Read Deb's stories and what so many have come on and shared what they went through.
She would have to swallow a big girls pill. And accept that ntcc is corrupt.
If it was a corrupt corporation. people would be fleeing as fast as they could.
but because they think this is of God. There doing Gods will. Then they should stay. Doesn't matter that Gods is not even in ntcc. If God ever was,he has left!!!
Rules and policies only CHANGE when Grant stage of childhood stage.
I saw a picture of casey cardenus's son on FB. He NEVER wore football pants when we were in. But look at the CHANGE that has happened. Only because Grant is wearing them. Before it was karate was popular for the kids to join. becauser Grant was taking Karate. the old TV commercial Mikey like's it. Well if Grant like's it,then other ntcc are allowed to like it.
So watch out Cardenus's and others. Grant will be graduating HS. And the rules may all CHANGE back. Because they know like everyone else. Rules have gone back and forth on many subjects over the years.
Folks like him and other suck ups. Stay because they want to be in the inner circle with mike k. and Tanya.
Saw a picture of Crystal Ripka wearing a denium skirt. GASP<being just like the penticostle's. Rw said NOT to go out in public in denium skirts or pants! Saw a longtime minister in deium jeans. Just amazing the changes that have happened since nobody hears from rw anymore!
CM
Reading all these posts brings back so many memories of all the stupid stuff we had to go through. I am so thankful that I got my wife and kids out of there and that now they can lead NORMAL lives!! My kids have flourished since leaving ntcc and have a wonderful future ahead of them. You cannot imagine the relief and happiness I feel that my daughter will NOT marry some stupid ntcc preacher, be brainwashed like I was, and have to go through life in poverty while the church leaders live like kings.
ReplyDeleteI was smiling while reading about "the Wall", because I was fortunate enough to bypass it. I met my beautiful wife after I graduated bs, and there was NO way I was going to ask for permission to date her. So we met without the church's knowledge. (I know, I must be a rebel or something! LOL). We've been married for 20 years, so everything worked out for the best.
In ntcc you have to ask permission for EVERYTHING! I remember people who were 60 or 70 years old having to stand in line to ask Davis or Kekel for PERMISSION!! Permission to get a ride to church, or permission to have someone over their home! Why? Because NTCC is a cult that's why. I hated the line so much that I just stopped asking for permission.
I did get the big V, but after my kids we born. If it weren't for the ntcc manipulating us all to do it, I wouldn't have done it. And like all cults, they pressure you to do things, without outright telling you to do it. BUT, everyone in the church knows that you'd better do it, or else. Like saying, "If you loved God you'd do it", or "You don't want to hinder the work of God do you?" It's so sinister.
AXP (another ex-preacher)
AXP,
ReplyDeleteI also avoided that HORRIBLE,embarrasing wall. For those that don't know what the Wall is. You have to wait for RW to be "in town". Can only ask HIM for permission to talk to someone on the wall. There are chairs set up,facing each other. While everyone else has a side show to watch during so called "fellowship". Which really is a time to stuff your face,and pretend you have interesting things to talk about. In reality,you don't want to go home and do what? Read a book,read the Bible and pretend your so spiritual. So you go to the fellowship hall. Buy gross,really fattening foods. Drink cheap cola. And watch folks trying to have a conversation on the wall. how HUMILATING and DEGRADING!
I got married before getting to WA. I would voice it and think,how thankful I was that I did not have to sit on that stupid wall.
I like you AXP. Stopped getting in that dreaded line to ask another adult if I could have company over,or go shopping with a friend... How STUPID that is!
I sometimes did not stop doing things,I just stopped asking another adult if I could do them!! Gasp,I broke a rule. That should have never been a rule in the first place.
Most college's have rules to behave,do your stuidies,take care of what is around you. Not who you can have over to your home,what games you can play or not play,How long your Skirt is going to be,even how LONG A short SLeeve shirt is going to be worn!!
And ntcc is not controlling! AS IF!
CM