The number 1 stumbling block for many who desire to leave the NTCC is "fear". For decades NTCC leaders have taught that if you leave their church you will be cursed and judged. In doing so they have equated leaving their church to leaving God. NTCC leaders have even gone as far as saying that "if you leave the NTCC you've left God". Through time they have used a few isolated examples highlighting someone's misfortune (which circumstantially happened after the individual left the NTCC) in an attempt to prove their hypothesis.
Understand that this a typical cult tactic used by many different cults in an attempt to prevent members from leaving their church. Experts have stated that one of the main signs in identifying a cult is when a church leader equates leaving their church to leaving God. That makes perfect sense because it's obvious that the Creator of the universe, AKA God, is a whole lot bigger than any particular church group. Leaving RWD is not leaving God regardless of what that crook RWD teaches. Leaving the NTCC is not leaving God regardless of what many NTCC yes men have taught, and I've personally heard them teach that mess.
The fact is the vast majority of people who have left the NTCC live far more productive lives than they ever lived while they were a part of the NTCCs organization. A good friend recommended that I start this thread and he suggested that I ask participators and readers of this blog to give specific examples of how your life has improved since you've left the NTCC. I will begin with examples of my own.
For the record, I've heard various NTCC pastors openly state that If you leave the NTCC, you are leaving God. It was relayed to me by a Brother who also left the NTCC that Oberhauser told him that my family would be cursed because we left the NTCC. Here is a brief break down of my life during and after involvement with the NTCC.
With the NTCC, hardly any family time. After the NTCC, more and quality family time. With the NTCC, tight on money. After the NTCC, more available cash flow without doubt. With the NTCC hardly any vacations or time away other than conference where I could go to hear RWD say, "if you don't like it here there is the door" while stating that "he was there first." We are preparing to go visit my Mom in New York and this past summer we took a vacation at a lake resort which would have certainly resulted in a guilt triping / blasting by many NTCC pastors. It was ok however for the Mayers to leave their church so they could go on a vacation to Disney World / Universal Studios. Hypocrites. Since we left the NTCC, my children have a much, much better quality of life just like Grant Kekel has had all along. Friendships with people no longer hing upon us having to remain a part of their church. To sum it up, life has been much better without the rigorous rules that were mandated by crooked NTCC pastors. Rules which have obviously not been followed by the Kekels and many other NTCC pastors. Information on the internet has proved all this.
Yes life is much better and far more enjoyable since we've left the NTCC so if that is a curse I'll take it. I'm no longer interested in following double standard, abusive hypocrites like RWD and Olson and there ain't no way that my wife is going to be used to clean the Kekels house.
Jeff
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteGreat article! To many who never experienced ntcc, the fear factor is obvious. To those in ntcc, they still feel the fear. And to some contemplating leaving or blogging, the first step seems huge.
Look to Jesus, and like Peter, you too can step out of the boat in safety into the watchful and loving arms of the One who bought you with His Own Blood.
How has my life improved since leaving the ntcc?
I would say that by far the biggest improvement was in my walk with God. By going and visiting many other churches and seeing how Christians from other denominations can and do maintain fellowship one with another I was able to learn from all of them.
I must say, GOD is SO HUGE and the experiences awaiting a true seeker are so much more wonderful than the limited, God-in-a-box version proffered by ntcc. I see some of rdub's teachings as borderline blasphemous the way he speaks of other Holy Ghost filled Christians.
I think his paranoia and sick desire to control all things have really limited God in not only rdub's life, but in the lives of all who hear and receive his false teachings.
I think just being away from ntcc there is so much more FREEDOM. Freedom to think for yourself and choose your own destiny as you are led by the Holy Spirit without rdub's ever present scowl and condemnation limiting you from experiencing all God has to offer.
OH TASTE AND SEE THAT THE LORD IS GOOD!
Angela
Ange,
ReplyDelete"I see some of rdub's teachings as borderline blasphemous the way he speaks of other Holy Ghost filled Christians."
Some of the statements are blasphemous! I remember one time a brother who left the NTCC was being bashed. Another brother "defended" him and said that's not true at all, he is doing this and that. "He is going to this one church faithfully and we fellowship in the field etc." Man oh man the Pastor had a field day with him. Of course the blessings of brother that had left the church was attributed to the Devil. The Pastor said the brother was confused. We all know who is the author of confusion.
NTCCers, I know this may be hard! I am about to drop some heavy theology here...if the Pastor is lying about someone who left, its a sin! It is wrong to attribute the things of God and give credit to the Devil. Phrases like "oh he just wanted the world", he was confused, etc are all giving credit to the Devil. I am not saying everyone has the perfect right intentions, but you should give them the benefit of the doubt, lest you be caught up in your own sin.
Anon!
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteI don't have time to tell alot right now, but I want the folks in ntcc to realize that leaving them was the BEST thing I could have ever done for myself and my family. I was in ntcc for 20+ years, mostly as a minister. In the end, I was broke financially, spiritually and emotionally. Those of you still in ntcc may think it was because I had spiritual problems, but it was not. It was because ntcc is a constant atmosphere of stress, pressure, never making enough money, never having any free time, and never allowing us to really follow God. When I left ntcc I WAS afraid of God's judgement. BUT, I LOVED God, why would He judge me? I wasn't leaving Him, but I couldn't stand to be in ntcc any longer. And I have to tell you that the thing that pushed me over the edge to leave was the indifferent attitude Davis and Kekel had to those of us who gave our all for the work of God, but ended up poorer because of it. They live in luxury and ease, and have absolutely NO concern for you or your family struggling for their church organization.
It took me about 6 months of researching things to finally realize that we had been subjected to CULT TACTICS and ABUSIVE church tactics for my entire time in ntcc. It was hard to accept, but it was true and did help bring some closure.
I have to say, after leaving ntcc life got 1000% better fast. First of all, I felt like 1000lb was lifted off of me. I felt so happy that I could now do what I felt God wanted me to do, without having to run it by some preacher first. Doors opened left and right just raining blessings on us in alot of different ways. I started making a whole lot more money. My health improved. My marriage got alot better, and we began to do things as a family. Even something as simple as going on a little trip was fun, because we didn't have to rush back for some church event. But the best, to me, was seeing my kids flourish. Opportunities were opening for them also, and they have been doing great. I can't believe I didn't leave years ago.
If you're still in ntcc and wondering about leaving-- DO IT! God will still be waiting for you, with loving arms, and you will no longer be oppressed by the ntcc slave-driver preachers.
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteLove the picture you chose for this article!
It shows how ntcc proclaims death to those who leave their exclusively hallowed halls.
ntcc so talks out of both sides of their mouths!
If pressed, rdub admits there are 'other Christians' 'out there'. How cultish, the phrase 'out there'--outside of ntcc.
Then why proclaim death and eternal damnation on those who leave ntcc?
Double-minded forked-tongue liar.
Why does ntcc lie and say that brothers and sisters who leave ntcc
"Just want sin."
Maybe they
"Just want Jesus!"
Jesus without rdub's man-made rules that rdub and his don't even keep themselves==hypocrites.
Jesus without lies about people who leave ntcc.
Jesus without self-serving manipulation.
Jesus without hypocrisy.
Jesus without threats.
Jesus without fear.
REAL JESUS. GOD IS LOVE JESUS.
PERFECT LOVE CASTETH OUT FEAR JESUS. GOOD SHEPHERD LEADING FROM THE FRONT JESUS. MY SHEEP KNOW MY VOICE JESUS. AND THE VOICE OF another (rdub) THEY DO NOT FOLLOW--JESUS.
rdub, you really do remind me of hitler and his claims to be god.
There's really no difference between that and your impudent and insolent treatment of Christians who choose to forego your self-serving and selfish advice; instead these real Christians choose to follow the inner whispers of the Holy Ghost for themselves without your self-serving spin put on everything.
Like someone else said, There is ONE mediator between God and man.
And you, rdub, are not the one.
Get out of the way and let God's people serve HIM!
Angela
Angie wrote...
ReplyDeleteJeff,
Love the picture you chose for this article!
Jeff said...
Thanks, I thought it was quite applicable. Of course that is the grim reaper who's coming after you because you've left the NTCC. Ha,ha. What a bunch of psychological cult trash. Leaving the NTCC equates to leaving an abusive, controlling bunch of narcissists, not leaving God.
Jeff
I left NTCC fifteen years ago, after spending about that many years 'in.' It was like getting born again all over again! The moment I told that scoundrel RW to his frowning face that I was out of there, peace, joy, and love like I hadn't experienced in years flooded my being. There was no question about the rightness of my action at that moment, which was a relief after all the fear and guilt I had been brainwashed with for years. When our family drove away, we were literally laughing with joy and happiness, and that was just the beginning of good things.
ReplyDeleteDon't heed the wives tales they spin about judgment awaiting those who leave NTCC. Blessings await, and I and many others can testify to that. Things for us got immediately better, and now when I look back on my poverty stricken, narrow, and pinched NTCC life, I have to wonder how I ever had the fortitude to stick it out so long. It's a sad thing that there are hundreds still enmeshed just like we were, guilty and fearful of even entertaining thoughts of leaving. I'd like to encourage them all to avail themselves of true liberty from the bondage of man.
Let me help you who are on the fence: that still small voice you hear within, telling you that things aren't the way they should be in the org--it's not the devil. It's God and the good sense he gave you. Don't second guess the obvious. If something smells, looks, and tastes rotten, it is. These bullies will try to intimidate you from the pulpit with tales of woe and calamity that supposedly befell some who left, but do yourself a favor and look some of us up and take your own poll.
If you want to see some divine judgment, keep watching RW and his inner circle. God is very patient, but they've been storing up wrath against themselves for quite some time.
Jeff and others,
ReplyDeleteThis is exactly why rw,mike K. and the rest of the cohorts do not like the blogs,web site's. The voices that have left and are sharing there experience's while in ntcc. But we are also sharing the joy,happiness,and how blessed we have been since LEAVING ntcc.
The Anon that said a weight was lifted. Has it absolutely correct. When my hubby decided to step down as the minister for ntcc. We were both in disbelief. That we were actually leaving ntcc. Inside I was having a party! No more pretending to be that perfect ntcc minister's wife. That NO WIFE can accomplish. But push themselve's to try and become a barbie perfect minister's wife. Guess what ladies. There is NO SUCH THING! Your attaining to be something that is not even attainable! For one,your never going to be perfect. So how can you strive to be that perfect PW? Just setting yourself up to be a failure. Which is where rw davis,mike K. want you. Kicking yourself,thinking your a failure. That your NEED these leaders to guide your life. Because they have sacrficed so much,they are so wise,they love us. ON AND ON the trash that is fed you.
It was not even six months after we had left ntcc. That the lie's began.
You know I was gone about a year or more. I wrote a few e-mails to friends still in ntcc. They were in shock,didn't know I had left. We have all had that nagging thoughts. We know such and such has left. But we are to afraid to ask. So we keep quiet and ACT all shocked when we find out they are actually gone.
God has blessed us so much more since leaving. The stress level went down 100%! My kids are now enjoying there childhood. As well as any hobbies me and my DH want t enjoy. We can without a guilt trip. I can no choose to work or not work to help my family. Funny thing,it was so wierd knowing we can choose where we want to LIVE!! Before rw knew more then we did on where God wanted to send us. AS IF!
He set up many of us to fail. Why did he give helpers to those that did not deserve helpers(ntcc standards) and no helpers for those with the same exact numbers . So they would suceed and we would not!!
MARK 9:38-40 read it NTCC! But you like 1 John 2:19 better. It gives you a good feeling, huh, NTCC? You tell outright lies on those who leave. Eli Gesang: "makes me feel bad- that there are no other churches in the NW but us" 1982. Oh yeah, he said it! 'cause that's what they teach! It blasphemy, I tell ya, against the blood and Body of Christ!
ReplyDeleteVic said...
ReplyDeleteIf you want to see some divine judgment, keep watching RW and his inner circle. God is very patient, but they've been storing up wrath against themselves for quite some time.
Amen.
And whoooo. Wouldn't want to be around them when the judgment falls!
double-D said,
ReplyDeleteMARK 9:38-40
Ange says,
double-D, that is straight up the Holy Ghost / Word of the Lord!!!!
I was just reading it last night, pondering why the Lord brought it my way. Now I know. See, God confirms the words of His messengers. Feels so good to know who are His just by His endorsing what they say!!
Grace and Peace to you my brothers and to the true Israel of God. =D
Ange
Anon! said,
ReplyDeleteSome of the statements are blasphemous! I remember one time a brother who left the NTCC was being bashed. Another brother "defended" him and said that's not true at all, he is doing this and that. "He is going to this one church faithfully and we fellowship in the field etc." Man oh man the Pastor had a field day with him.--Anon!
Right. More cult intimidation practices. That brother who stood up to defend the other man who left get's an A+ from me!
In the past ntcc got away with such blatant lies because people were too scared to stay in touch and there were no cell phones, no computers.
Information is power. And ntcc's lies and misinformation had a powerful effect keeping brothers separated. God hates those who sow discord among brothers.
Now ntcc will try to say that we are sowing discord. I disagree. We are sharing the truth. And the truth makes you free. =D Good post Anon!
Angela
Anonymous said,
ReplyDelete" ntcc is a constant atmosphere of stress, pressure, never making enough money, never having any free time, and never allowing us to really follow God. When I left ntcc I WAS afraid of God's judgement. BUT, I LOVED God, why would He judge me? I wasn't leaving Him, ..."--Anonymous
And if you are in ntcc and want to leave ntcc, FEEL FREE! GOD LOVES YOU! LEAVING A CHURCH DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE LEAVING GOD OR HIS WILL FOR YOU. IT'S PROBABLY HIM TELLING YOU THROUGH AWFUL CIRCUMSTANCES TO LEAVE ntcc....PRAY ABOUT IT. ASK FOR AN ANSWOER ONLY GOD COULD GIVE. HE'S BEEN THERE FOR YOU YOUR WHOLE LIFE BEFORE YOU KNEW HIM. HE CAN GIVE YOU A SECRET ANSWER LIKE NOBODY ELSE CAN!
ASK HIM TO MAKE IT PERSONAL BUT PLAIN.
HE'S GOD. HE CAN DO THAT! :-) ASK HIM TO SHUT THE WRONG DOORS AND OPEN THE RIGHT DOORS. ASK HIM TO BE YOUR GOD, YOUR DIRECTOR, YOUR EVERYTHING. ASK HIM TO HELP YOU DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THE 'VOICE' OF MAN AND HIS VOICE DIRECTING YOU. DON'T ALLOW FEAR OF A MAN SNARE YOU INTO ALLOWING THAT MAN TO BECOME YOUR god. KEEP JESUS AS YOUR KING!
Angela
Proverbs 29v25&26:
The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the LORD shall be safe.
Many seek the ruler's favour; but 'every' mans judgment 'cometh' from the LORD.
Don't be snared by fear of kekel or davis or olson. Put your trust in the Lord. You will be safe.
Many seek kekel's, davis's, and olson's favour; but God is the One Who will be our Judge. Look to Him! Seek God's 'favour'.
Anonymous said,
ReplyDelete"the thing that pushed me over the edge to leave was the indifferent attitude Davis and Kekel had to those of us who gave our all for the work of God, but ended up poorer because of it. They live in luxury and ease, and have absolutely NO concern for you or your family struggling for their church organization."--Anonymous
THAT IS 100% TRUE.
I personally have experienced it.
And I have seen it happen to others who gave their all and yet in their hour of need ntcc was not there for them. In fact, ntcc tried to further take advantage of and exploit them making demands for them to sell property to the borg at less than market value. And when the man had the good horse sense to say no, God sent somebody else to buy it.
And then davis allowing the Hampton family to be homeless while pastoring the ntcc church in Mexico, Missouri which is only 15 miles from ntcc's national campground which has hundreds of empty beds.
And there's the Lodge owned by davis/ntcc. It has six bedrooms with queen size beds and two and a half baths in the common areas. There is also a private master suite that has a parlour, bedroom with king or queen size bed and full bathroom.
The Lodge is huge. It is pattered after ski lodges with a large open downstairs and balcony upstairs for the bedroom access. There's a huge fireplace, a laundry room, two living room areas, a huge conference table, a huge kitchen...
But davis allows the Hamptons with four kids to live out of a garage?
Then davis has the nerve to lie to their face and tell them he loves them? What a liar!
That's the truth about ntcc.
They will bleed you dry and hang you out to dry like a used dishrag!
Don't wait to you've got nothing left.
Leave ntcc.
Angela
Anonymous said,
ReplyDelete"It took me about 6 months of researching things to finally realize that we had been subjected to CULT TACTICS and ABUSIVE church tactics for my entire time in ntcc. It was hard to accept, but it was true and did help bring some closure."--Anon
Research cults and you will see ntcc.
ntcc is a textbook cult in the way they abuse members.
Don't take our word for it.
STUDY FOR YOURSELF. AND SEE WHAT GOD SHOWS YOU. It's not a sin to learn how cults work. God might use it to deliver you or someone you love.
Angela
I remember being so afraid of RWD, MCK, etc. for YEARS after I left! Then with the help of others, I realized that they have absolutely NO control over me. WHO CARES what they think of me?!! They are wimpy dogs who try to show off their big teeth to seem like they're vicious, but they don't have any bite. There is absolutely NOTHING they can do to me!!
ReplyDeleteWhat helped me to realize this is seeing how vile they are, loving money more than souls. If this wasn't true, the missionaries wouldn't be starving to death while they live in the lap of luxury. Look around, people!! The only reason you feel they 'deserve' it is because they TOLD you they do, and that you'd go to Hell if you didn't think so!!!
I feel better. lol
Linda (Lamblin)
Children afraid of r.w.davis
ReplyDeleteWhile staying at the Lodge one time I witnessed something I won't ever forget. It was a brief scene, but one that has doubtless happened thousands of times to kids in ntcc.
The Bradeens were spending the night at the Lodge, I think they were en route to the Philippines.
I was headed up the stairs and noticed r.w. call the then-time very young Jenny Bradeen over to talk to him where he was seated.
Of course she ran closer at the beck and call of the 'man-of-God'... But what happened next so stunned me-- She froze about 8 feet away from him and came to rigid attention! Her whole body language was one of absolute terror.
Today I would not allow a child to go through that alone! I would walk over and put my around her for support.
But how peculiar. Children were never, never, never afraid of Jesus! They wanted to be near Him. And He took them up in His arms and blessed them. Love.
But the way rdub uses fear and absolute terror to rule, Jenny's response was quite natural--self preservation, not only from rdub, but from any repercussions that would fall if rdub called her mom or Arlen out on the carpet if Jenny happened to displease the so-called mog.
Folks. Listen to your kids! They are REAL! Don't teach them to over-ride that wonderful inner voice God has given us all as a means to protect ourselves from wolves in sheeps clothing and other predatory animals.
Kids are great coz they don't know how to be phony. They have to learn that from parents saying, "Oh, no, honey, it's not really like that."
Yes it is really like that! It is exactly like what you saw! He is mean! You should be afraid! Because your parents have given all their power to him and he controls your lives when he should not!
The thing to do in that situation is LEAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ask God to forgive you for subjecting your family to such megalomaniacal control freaks who promote themselves through your sacrifice so they can attain their selfish agendas.
Jenny, sorry I let you go through that alone.
Sincerely,
Angela
Here's a funny: Why do they feel they must degrade you in front of all those who remain- (politics of personal destruction) after you go...? In my last conversation with RW- I told him - I did not call you a devil- my wife did. He's said- well, that's what I heard- he hugged me and prayed with sadness- "its such a shame you had such talent". I did not know he was going to after that - lie on me in front of NTCC. I thought we had patched things up- even though I never character-asassinated him... why must he.. us?
ReplyDeleteFunny part- (oh yeah- he had blasted me/us from the pulpit and was sneaking out of town) - I called him and made him meet with me first. I asked what's going on here? (Whazzup).. he's not so bold when not in the pulpit blastin ya in front of the drones.... I wish I could have told him the truth about what God told me about him- but - in my meekness I could / would not. I let him play the part of sad overseer weeping for a lost sheep. With JLJ in tow, too. If any of his "yes" men ever dare to tell him- maybe he will be shocked!
Here is a list of people I know who have gone on and lived happy lives after NTCC. I don’t know all the details, but I do know that all of these former ministers are doing well and are living happy lives since leaving NTCC.
ReplyDelete*Mark Perez—has been a successful insurance salesman, owns a nice home and done very good for himself.
*Seth Fener—last I heard was going to be a helicopter pilot for the California State Troopers. Happy.
*Doug Allen & wife—both doing very well. Wife just became a registered nurse.
*Brian Pelfrey—Doing good and happily driving a semi across America.
*Matt Crowell- Happily married. Owns a beautiful home. In college to be an Engineer.
*Damion Jacobs—Happy and doing well.
*Vic Johanson—Very happy. Owns his own house. Runs the computer dept for a large hospital.
*Casey Hayes—Very happy and doing well.
*Craig Dobyns—Happy and working as a civil engineer I believe.
*The Hagans-- Last I heard the father and both sons had joined the military.
*The Ettls—out of ntcc and happy. Don’t know details.
*Both Rickard brothers—doing well, and as far as I know, ministers in another church.
*Robert Derrick—heard he was studying to be a policeman.
*Curt Waltemeyer—Very happy and doing well.
*Eric Hannah—Happy and doing well.
Please feel free to add your success story.
Cool. Thanks for the list.
ReplyDeleteAlso out and happy:
ReplyDeleteStClairs (younger)
Mahalick (sp?)
Corbetts
Below is a list of friends of mine in NTCC who I wish would leave. I don't know why you guys haven't left yet, seeing that you've all seen and experienced abuse yourself for years. You've seen the double-standards, the indifference of the leaders to care about you and your family. NTCC is just using you and will throw you away in the end. I'm asking you to pray about leaving NTCC while you still have time to rebuild your lives. God has so much more waiting for you outside ntcc.
ReplyDeleteCurtis Annis
Reginald Terry
Tony Grey
Mark Noel & family
Diana Hampton
Frank Acosta
Tim Hasty & family
Phil Mahalik & family
"*Vic Johanson—Very happy. Owns his own house. Runs the computer dept for a large hospital."
ReplyDeleteWell, I work in the IT department, but I'm not running it. We do own our house, though, and we're also very happy. Much happier than we ever were in NTCC.
Everyone I've ever known after they left org is happier, and you will be too, my brothers and sisters still in captivity. Jump in, the water's fine!
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteSince leaving, I have had opportunity to actually have a closer relationship with my Lord and Savior. I was a Christian going into NTCC, and after leaving realized that I was more of a Christian, albeit a damaged one in some ways.
I have a wife, a family, a stable career that virtually called me to it; and am involved in a good Christian congregation, involved in ministry with them through supportive activities within.
I thank God I left NTCC, with His leading.
Having married a man not belonging to NTCC means thatc we can go on vacations as a family. We own property in Southern Washington, and have access to his dad's cabin in Eastern Washington. Both places are excellent and inexpensive get-aways. Had I stayed in the church, my time every weekend would be so consumed by NTCC that I would barely get any time with my husband. I'm very happy to be able to have that time together when we can just relax, not have any real responsibilities to anyone but ourselves and our family, and really connect with eachother. My parents didn't seem to get a lot of that when I was growing up, although I hear they are finding the time for that a lot more these days, which I'm happy about for them. I think spending time with one's spouse is crucial to the marital and familial relationship.
ReplyDeleteThe eldest Hagan boy is still in - he's in St. Louis where my parents are - that's how I know :)
ReplyDeleteAlso, I'm wondering - is Crowell the one who has a son named Adam? If so, I wonder if his leaving had anything to do with his wife remarrying. I saw her and Adam in Graham quite a while back, and she gave me a different last name.
Bellman's in SK. Doing wonderful.
ReplyDeleteBrowns in Indy,Blessed with two wonderful kids.
John Shaub ,also loving life with his animals,no not his kids. actual animals!lol
Tracy Pelfry,being with her family.
Bobbie Fears,working at the federal blging. enjoying time with her kiddo's.
Purdue's settling in WA.
Michalik is in the Army,doing well. kids are enjoying a childhood.
As I hear of the change's going on in the milder,gentler ntcc. I am in shock of the compromise and loopholes they are now doing.
ReplyDeleteI keep waiting for the hammer to come back down on them. It usually does. Give and then take. Give and then take. Make folks stay,just to wait for that Carrot to be given again.
mmm.sister Olson once told me of that carrot trick they used on there DD. Who did not graduate from a HS. But took her GED. They hung a carrot(incentive) to get her to graduate. This is what she told me. It was not that important for there DD to go to college,get much of an education. So she could get married off to a minister who would take care of her! Sounds like the 1920's!
So with the changes,going to the Grand Ole Opry(Gandy),bluegrass festivals(Kekle,football team(Grant)even ministers going to Disney parks,minister's own TV's,jewlery being worn by sister's(necklace's),on and on.
I have complied a list of things I have enjoyed since leaving ntcc. that are NOT SINS. But were shunned by ntcc leadership in the past. Those that have recently left can tell us. If now these items are allowed. And if more compromise has gone on.
Pool Table in my home
Rollerskating rink time
playing UNO or a card game
pampering with nail polish,or light make-up.
Having friends from all walks of life. And not just to get them to Church!
Go to a Church I enjoy going to!
attending a women's Bible study with ladies from other Churches.
Taking my kids to Awana's.
Or a Summer camp.
Move where we can pray and decide where to live!
Dance lessons for DD
Karate lessons for my DD and DS.
Own a Horse(RW once bashed a sister for wanting to ride out into Graham to pet and feed a horse. That husband is now DEAD!)
Go Green without feeling guilty and being called a Tree hugger.
Have friends over to play Board Game's. Talking is NOT the only form of fellowship Rw davis!
Go once,or how many times I decide to attend Church in a week.
Go to a Family Gym(gasp has men and women not oggling each other. But guess what they are doing,WORKING OUT!!)
Swimming at a beach or a pool. That is not hidden behind a eight foot fence(on ntcc property there is a pool)!!!
Me,join a sports adult team.
Hubby plays the sport he now enjoys.
So is ntcc folks doing any of these things. ALL WERE NOT ALLOWED when I was in ntcc!
CM
"Also, I'm wondering - is Crowell the one who has a son named Adam?"
ReplyDeleteI think it's Adham, and if I'm remembering correctly, he's Matt's stepson and may have a different last name. The Crowell's divorce was another org-inspired breakup, and the way Matt was treated really sucked, but shouldn't shock any of us who have observed the NTCC leadership's behavior patterns over the years. It's just another tragic example in the sad and voluminous history of the gulag.
NTCC destroyed Matt Crowell's first marriage-- and Matt Crowell. RW and Olson really did alot of lying and manipulating. Adam was his stepson. However, he told me personally that God gave him another wife who treats him 1000% better than his first, and they are both very, very happy.
ReplyDeleteAXP (another ex-preacher)
Rick, sounds like you're doing good. ntcc does damage and harm people-- hence these blogs to eXpose them. But maybe in time God will cause even our scars to make us stronger. Just like the weld on metal. That joint, though burned into existence, is stronger than the metal without a weld. And perhaps the wounds we received will also cause us to be more compassionate with other souls. Who knows what good God will bring out of our pain? Only God truly knows.
ReplyDeleteI liked what you wrote about having a wife, family, and stable career now. I think one of the biggest things missing from ntcc is stability. Everything is so hectic and off-balance. It speaks of confusion; and where there is confusion there is every evil work. God has called us to peace; and there remaineth yet a rest unto the children of God. Not the phony deceitful appearance of rest you see in ntcc--like a volcano posing as a mountain but inside seething and waiting to erupt; but a true peace like the deep in the ocean; where there may be huge powerful waves; but the depth behind them is so strong; it is unshakable.
Glad you took time to post here.
Angela
Anonymous (February 09, 2010 3:12 PM) said,
ReplyDeleteIt was because ntcc is a constant atmosphere of ... never allowing us to really follow God. ... after leaving ntcc ... I felt so happy that I could now do what I felt God wanted me to do, without having to run it by some preacher first.--Anon
Ange says,
I have really edited out some things in that statement because I want to emphasise that one MAJOR point:
In ntcc a system is in place to control every action of the folks in ntcc. This system of rules and required permissions is most prevalent at the Bible Seminary; but folks who go there are so indoctrinated that when they leave, they take the system of rules and permissions with them and foist them off on unsuspecting folks in the ntcc churches. I've seen it. Others have seen it and testified about it.
Systems of rules and permissions create legalistic environments that quench God's Holy Spirit. He still lovingly guides and teaches; but too often the people who have been subjected to legalism quench or override the Still Small Voice of God.
Because they have allowed a man and his rules to subtly replace God as the Guiding or Sovereign Deity that He should be in their lives. Now these people love God. But they have been so immersed in a systematic legalistic cult culture that they truly have to pray and seek God to allow God to once again be their focus and Guide.
If you are in ntcc, I pray you will read your Bible and ask God to help you understand what He is saying TO YOU. Try not to accept any teaching until you prove or test it by searching the scriptures for yourselves (as the more noble Jews of Berea did--Acts ch.17v10&11)
KNOWING THIS FIRST, THAT NO PROPHECY OF THE SCRIPTURE IS OF ANY PRIVATE INTERPRETATION.--II_Peter 1v20.
If anyone is teaching something that contradicts the Word (Who is Christ), walk away. Allow God to lead you. Don't worry about what a man says, no matter what title he has given himself.
Fear God. Not man.
Angela
Check this out:
ReplyDeletehttp://books.google.com/books?id=fw00AAAACAAJ&source=gbs_ViewAPI
There is a book entitled "Saints in Chains" by Rodger W. Davis, published in 1997 by Northwest Pub. I've not been able to find a source or review of this book, so I have no idea if it's by NTCC's RWD. But he would be perfectly suited to write such a treatise, since he has proven expertly capable of laying chains on God's children.
You know Jeff, it is true that many people will manipulate you into thinking that you need them but it is also these same people who want to be so needy of others.
ReplyDeleteI remember the ladies that were forming a line at the conference tod try and say goodbye to ms kekel. It was just too much for me.
I hope that you put the shoe on the other side the blame on those that make these people such manipulators.
apw
....
She lay bloodied and bruised on the ground in front of her man.
His punches had knocked her down. She quivered as he screamed:
LOOK WHAT YOU MADE ME DO!!!
Check this out:
ReplyDeletehttp://books.google.com/books?id=fw00AAAACAAJ&source=gbs_ViewAPI
There is a book entitled "Saints in Chains" by Rodger W. Davis, published in 1997 by Northwest Pub. I've not been able to find a source or review of this book, so I have no idea if it's by NTCC's RWD. But he would be perfectly suited to write such a treatise, since he has proven expertly capable of laying chains on God's children.--Vic
..
Vic, that was a funny way to describe a sad reality! ntcc's saints are in chains to rdub and his minions.
If that was rdub's book I wonder who he plagiarised it from? He has a proven past of plagiarising others' works.
Remember the DISPENSATIONS material?
Wasn't that Dake's work?
Then r.w. davis had people copy the DISPENSATION CHART. But I think after awhile people put 2+2 together and came up with Plagiarism=theft. After that rdub still had them paint a copy of the dispensation chart, but he kept their charts when they handed them in for a grade. Sounds to me like trying to destroy the evidence.
WHAT A SCAM!
In my opinion rdub is both shameless and shameful.
Angela
VERNA THE NAG...
ReplyDeleteVic, if that is rdub's book, then all the years of verna nagging rdub to write a book have "paid off"....
"Remember the DISPENSATIONS material?
ReplyDeleteWasn't that Dake's work?"
Originally, students had to copy Dake's chart for Dispensations. But when I was in, John Rodriguez had painted his own version, which is what we were to duplicate. Which was a lot more difficult, since we had to go to the classroom to copy it, and they would only open it when it suited them. I still have that thing moldering around here someplace; it's on an 18 foot piece of canvas. A monument to my wasted youth.
Rev. Kekel made a point of telling us he painted it (and he wasn't even the teacher, Rev. Gesang was). This was around 1995, when I took the class (were you still teaching then, Vic...I was a student in your Romans class in 1994). Maybe it was a different chart.
ReplyDeleteGregory
This must be the same chart they were using for Rev. class. They hung it across the felloship hall. We didn't have to make one but Rev. Kekel said it was his.
ReplyDelete"Rev. Kekel made a point of telling us he painted it (and he wasn't even the teacher, Rev. Gesang was). This was around 1995, when I took the class (were you still teaching then, Vic...I was a student in your Romans class in 1994). Maybe it was a different chart."
ReplyDeleteThe one in Graham was Mike's. We were BS roommates, and did ours at the same time. We copied John Rodriguez' original, which is probably still in St. Louis someplace. I did teach in 1995; I think we left in the summer of that year.