A while back, Mike Kekel wrote an article on his blog called "Ain't Misbehaven". Yesterday, Don and I were talking on the phone, and we were both astounded that Mike would even publish and openly display such information. Approximately one year ago I posted an article referencing what Mike wrote titled "The Irony Of It All". Directly below is a link which will take you straight to that article. Anyway, I wanted to repost what M.C. Kekel wrote because I'm still amazed that he'd be so careless as to throw his father-in-law, RWD under the bus in such a fashion. Either that, or it's part of yet another New Testament Christian Church master plan to allow in what they've called "compromise" for decades.
M.C. Kekel wrote...
"I do not make the rules, and have only recently had opportunity to affect them. In the past I have only been in the unfortunate position of having to enforce them. That doesn't mean I agreed with them. If so be they were mistakes, they weren't mine. As for the church organization? I have nothing to do with policies and doctrines of the organization concerning things like TV (which ministers aren't to have if they carry license in NTCC- unless it is solely as a gaming monitor or something, and not connected to TV input) and couldn't change them if I wanted to. If that gets changed, Rev. Olson will have to do it by mandate or through board approval. I have no such power. Even in the Bible School realm I am limited."
"My influence on the bible school rules has only been to lighten them, not increase them. Further, since I wasn't a bible school student during that time, I was not UNDER those rules. The sports rule was not bible based to begin with, and was for bible school students. Not me."
Chief said...
These statements absolutely amaze me!!!!!! They're jaw dropping. I don't know how anyone in the New Testament Christian Church could ignore these statements if they have a conscience or any intelligence and common sense. Do you really trust the NTCC leadership with the task of guiding you to heaven? Really? There are two people who are key leaders in the NTCC; R.W. Davis and M.C. Kekel. These statements (written by one NTCC executive board member, namely M.C. Kekel) made a complete mockery of the Founder of the NTCC, namely R.W. Davis. Who do you think came up with all the rules and or endorsed every last one? RWD!!! Basically Mike wrote, (and of course I'm paraphrasing here) that he was the unlucky scapegoat who had the dubious distinction of having to enforce a bunch of bogus rules that he didn't agree with and had nothing to do with in the first place. Boy if that ain't throwing RWD, and the rest of the general board under the bus, I don't know what in the world is?
Listen here people and please listen good. Armed with this information, I'd have no reason to believe that God inspired one single rule that RWD ever spewed out of his big fat mouth. "Ask permission to go visit who"? "Ask permission to stop where"? "Ask permission to accept a job"? "Ask permission to date or talk to who"? "Stand against the wall just to talk to a woman"? "You said it's a sin for all women to work"? "Where is that rule found in the Bible, Proverbs 31"? "REALLY, ARE YOU SERIOUS, ARE YOU KIDDING ME"?
Obey them that have rule over you? When I know that they have a history of coming up with a bunch of stupid rules that Kekel doesn't even agree with, and he considers himself as being unfortunate for even having to enforce them? REALLY? Huh!! Never again. I'm a grown man with a family to look out for. You can follow a bunch of stupid rules and con artists if you want to but I'm not the one.
Cha Chief, Cha Chief, Cha Chief Chief Chief
P.S. I wouldn't follow M.C. Kekel or RWD to find a toilet (say no less as spiritual leaders) if I had diarrhea blowing out my butt like it was shot out with an air compressor at 200 PSI.
Jeff, I'm surprised that you haven't picked up on this yet. This is Known as "Good cop, Bad cop" in Psychology.
ReplyDeleteThis was/is an attempt of Kekel trying remove himself from Davis' cruel reign. Nonetheless he is not guiltless because he enforces that which he doesn't agree with. I would say he is an unscrupulous piece of work, not to mention a few other things.
For sure, and this is proof that these NTCC leaders aren't taking direction from the Lord. It's hit and miss. It's obvious that either Davis or Kekel is wrong, (no doubt both) and they certainly aren't making decisions based upon any guidance from the Lord. Would you want to follow guys like that and trust them to make decisions that affect your family? Would you trust them to do the right thing with the money you give the church? Not me baby, not me!
ReplyDeleteI don't see Davis or Kekel as "Men of God" and I've been saying that for years. They are just common con artists. What, is God all mixed up? If you trust Davis and Kekel, God would have to be all mixed up and Kekel's own statement is proof. For the record, God Ain't mixed up, they are.
Chief
Cha Chief said:
ReplyDelete"I wouldn't follow M.C. Kekel or RWD to find a toilet (say no less as spiritual leaders) if I had diarrhea blowing out my butt like it was shot out with an air compressor at 200 PSI."
DnA said:
Make sure you aim it toward Graham if that ever happens.
ROTFLOL
ReplyDeleteI can't remember the last time I laughed that hard. That was so funny.
ReplyDeleteDavis often spoke of an organization compromising after 50 years. He knew full well when he spoke this that his corrupt org. would change because of the "golden grandson" coming on the scene.
ReplyDeleteKekel can try to put distance between himself and the borg. leader, but everybody knows that this is nothing more than cleverness on display. He had to say that so he didn't look so much like the hypocrite that he and his wife are.
I remember a few years ago how the Kekels boasted of Grant not only being saved but filled with the Holy Ghost. Looks like they missed God on this one. Or could it be they had to change their story because if this was the case then Grant should, by their own standards, be in bible School right now. Can you say HYPOCRITES or just plain FAILURES at being an Godly example before their son so he would grow up and go to their BS school?
I remember Davis for years would rant in conferences about parents being failures before the Lord because their children didn't grow up and want to serve God or come to their BS school.
WOW, I guess that makes DAVIS and MICHEAL the biggest failures of them all.
Just remember they never miss God!
Jeff, you're right on as usual. It's always been "do as they say and not as they do" regarding the ntcc leadership and all their mandates.
ReplyDeleteIt's a pretty pathetic bunch who won't lead by example. And I was part of the following who believed every word and actually thought my leaders were living it too.
You have to be under a spirit of deception to preach and teach one way, live in complete opposition to that, and still think you are of God. It's a shame, a real shame.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteKekel can try to put distance between himself and the borg. leader, but everybody knows that this is nothing more than cleverness on display. He had to say that so he didn't look so much like the hypocrite that he and his wife are.
Chief said...
You are completely right but what gets me is that even armed with this indisputable knowledge, so many people still stay with the NTCC? So many pastors still stay with the NTCC. Don't they realize that when they send their people to the NTCS Davis and Kekel are in charge? Don't give R.W. Davis a break on this one either. It's his grandson, daughter and son-in-law and they are still in charge. Davis influenced so many others to forsake their family members so why doesn't he do the same?
I'll tell you why and I've also been saying this all along. Because with RWD it has never been about God. With him it's always been about family, money, business and control; PERIOD! R.W. Davis and Kekel are both double standard hypocrites.
Cha Chief i.e. Cha Ching i.e. you hit the jackpot
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteIt's always been "do as they say and not as they do" regarding the ntcc leadership and all their mandates.
Chief said...
They've always placed heavy burdens on everyone else but themselves. Kekel admitted that in his very statement. He said the rules weren't for him and the truth is they never were, even when he was in the "Bible School" i.e. school of rules. It's called nepotism. He was Tanya's man and the rules don't apply to Davis' family. They are so spiritual they didn't need the rules. Phooey.
Face it y'all, we all got duped, played, suckered, tricked, conned, pimped, bamboozled, hoodwinked, swindled, roped in, rooked, flimflamed, mislead. Did I miss anything?
Chief
Did everyone catch how he also craftily dismissed the "no TV rule"? He was basically saying he didn't agree with that one either. He flat out said it only applied to licensed ministers. So what, that makes it not a sin and just another bogus NTCC rule? You are out of your mind if you listen to these NTCC pastors and leaders anymore. They couldn't tell me a thing.
ReplyDeleteChief
Chief said:
ReplyDelete"Did I miss anything?"
DnA said:
Not much but I would add: victimized, swindled, rooked, goldbricked, nobbled, diddled, buncoed, defrauded, scamed, gyped, hornswoggled, short-changed and chiseled.
Ha, ha! I love some good humor. Thanks Don and Ange.
ReplyDeletekekel the hypocrite also said in your post that a monitor was ok as long as it was used for a gaming console.
ReplyDeleteBut wait !
There was a brother who got blasted and called out for playing video games.
Davis the scam artist also said how does someone have time for playng video games when they should be doing something for God ?
Yet, Grant Kekel sits up and plays video games ?
How does the math work out on that one ?
Can someone in NTCC explain that to me ?
Rush Limbaugh says liberalism is a mental disorder....
Remaining in NTCC with all this information is a mental disorder.
The passionate Anonymous asked...
ReplyDeleteCan someone in NTCC explain that to me?
Chief said...
I feel your pain and passion. Whoever you are, we think alike. They can't explain it, not in a million years. They explain it away is what they do.
Chief
Cheif said "Did everyone catch how he also craftily dismissed the "no TV rule"?... "He flat out said it only applied to licensed ministers."
ReplyDeleteI remember when I was in the PI, Dub came in for a so-called Asian conference. When he got to his room he looked over at the TV that I had turned around to face the wall, and said to me "Reed, what are ya doin' with the TV? Turn that thing around so I can look at the news".
My first thought was wow, all those people that got plowed up in previous conferences because it was said they wanted to stay at hotels so they could watch TV. He railed on that hard quite a few times, and he wasn't just talkin' to ministers either!
So remember all you NTCC'ers when you hear Dub preach and plow hard on something, it's probably because he is doing the same thing himself. You've all heard the saying "you are what you eat". Well, "Dub is what he preaches against".
RWD said...
ReplyDeleteTurn that thing around so I can look at the news.
Chief said...
Turn that thing around so I can watch a ball game like Kekel the con artist. I've seen cleavage on the news so what is the difference? These NTCC leaders are a bunch of hypocrites. I watched a college a college football game last night!!! Is that any different than Kekel the con artist going to his son's football games? If you think it is, you are a hypocrite also.
Cha Chief, Cha Chief, Cha Chief Chief Chief
MDR said:
ReplyDelete"I remember when I was in the PI, Dub came in for a so-called Asian conference. When he got to his room he looked over at the TV that I had turned around to face the wall, and said to me "Reed, what are ya doin' with the TV? Turn that thing around so I can look at the news".
DnA said:
Yeah, and I'm sure he watches the televangelists so he can get some preaching material for his next message, because he ain't getting it from God. That's for sure. R-dub and his fan club have lost all credibility. When you contradict God, the Bible and yourself over and over, and you do it in the name of God for personal greed and power, you open yourself up for this kind of criticism.
I think that when Mck threw Dub under the bus, Davis probably realized that Mck was doing necessary damage control. It's the same thing R-dub has done all his life. He probably commended Mck for doing it because the end result is more brainwashed, tithe paying drones to support his own lavish lifestyle.
If you are in the ntcc and you choose to stay after reading this one article, you are a complete brainwashed sucker, and you probably wont wake up until R-dub or Mck runs you off. Then your head will be spinning and you will have to look at the history that these users and abusers have.
Remember, if R-dub and company are 1% wrong, they might as well be 100% wrong. TV is a sin for you, but it's not a sin for the Ntcc leadership. You can have a gaming console, but you can not have a TV. Con artistry at it's pathetic best. The rules are for you, but not for Mck. He never had to follow rules because it's not about souls and it's not about being right with God. It never was. It's about controlling you and your finances so they can have the things that you never will have.
It's about conniving a bunch of people out of their money and their futures while they live contrary to everything they taught you. They have no conscience. They never apologize for what they do or what they are. If you leave they will find another sucker to take your place.
DnA
DnA said "I think that when Mck threw Dub under the bus, Davis probably realized that Mck was doing necessary damage control"
ReplyDeleteDon, I've heard Micheal get up and say that he doesn't do anything without first bringing it to dub's attention. So with that in mind I wouldn't doubt that Dub and Micheal probably talked this over and Micheal was instructed by Dub to write this. It's all about semantics with these pathetic crooks.
There is no telling with these guys. Which ever way, this is proof that they can't be trusted. Having this kind of information, I don't know why people would continue to stay in the NTCC and give the org their hard earned money. Yeah I know why. Because they are suckers just like we were.
ReplyDeleteChief
Thinking this out to a logical conclusion you almost have to look at it from a damage control perspective. At face value, there is no way anyone could get away with treating R-dub like Muck did in this blog post. In a million years, I would never have imagined anyone getting away with walking on R-dub like Muck does here. If that were to happen during the Eighties or early Nineties, Muck would have been squashed like a stink bug.
ReplyDeleteThe information highway has made damage control necessary, and what ever it takes to keep people blind and broke is priority. I'm sure every holiness doctrine that they ever preached will be done away with soon which is already being witnessed. Holiness is for conferences now as many ministers are compromising standards galore in their perspective localities. It starts out with the small things like TV commercials to advertise their church services and preachers wives and members wearing lascivious apparel to work out in at the gym. Many of the Pastor's wives are already wearing make- up. The only standard you will never see compromised is the tithe and offering doctrine.
DnA
DnA wrote...
ReplyDeleteI would never have imagined anyone getting away with walking on R-dub like Muck does here.
Chief said....
True but shocking nevertheless. Regardless of his reasons this is proof that neither he or RWD can be trusted. You can't believe in them or trust that what they say comes from God. If I can't trust that what they say comes from God, then why would I need them as pastors? I wouldn't! Life is better without them and I'm not going to pay a church tithe and offerings to follow pastors that I can't trust. If it's about going to heaven or hell, I would guess that heaven isn't full of tricksters like RWD and Kekel. Lets be real here; I could make it to hell on my own; I don't need to pay a couple tricksters in a church to help me get there.
Point being that even if this is damage control, it classifies as trickery one way or the other. If this is a plot by MCK and RWD to ease in compromise that is trickery. If those two are truly divided, that's also trickery because that means that one or both of them must be wrong. A house divided can't stand. It's either true division or a planned scheme neither of which is going to get anyone to heaven. I'm not paying someone to send me to hell; once again I could do that on my own.
Cha Chief
I left the Catholic Church because the Pope kept changing the rules - that is what convinced me that it was a "man's" religion.
ReplyDeleteAnd Sebring you best believe that the NTCC is a man made group with a man bunch of man made rules that also keep changing.
ReplyDeleteChief
Sebring 623 said:
ReplyDelete"I left the Catholic Church because the Pope kept changing the rules - that is what convinced me that it was a "man's" religion."
DnA said:
At least many of the Popes rules weren't enforced by gestapo Nazis. I know Catholics that live a much better life with morals and human decency. I'm not saying that any of them are or are not right with God; that's not for me to decide, but many of them treat their fellow human beings with dignity and respect. I'd much rather take my chances in a Catholic church if I had to, than with the ntcc. I know what they are all about.
The ntcc is all about enforcing man made rules that are almost impossible to live by while the same smug dictators that dreamed up these rules live opposite to what they require. The Catholics don't require much out of you, in fact you can pretty much live any way you want to. The ntcc demands absolute control over your life and finances with zero tolerance for mistakes. A mistake in the ntcc is equivalent to disobedience, disobedience and disrespect are one in the same and if you disagree you won't be around long in the ntcc.
DnA
Kekel said:
ReplyDelete""I do not make the rules, and have only recently had opportunity to affect them. In the past I have only been in the unfortunate position of having to enforce them. That doesn't mean I agreed with them. If so be they were mistakes, they weren't mine."
I agree with Jeff, that this has to be the biggest ntcc blunder of all time. It's worth revisiting many times over. Not only does Kekel undermine the fabric of which the ntcc was built upon, but he also demeans his Father in Law, the founder of ntcc and the one who made up the rules and spent 40 years using these rules to ruin peoples lives. Whether or not it was done intentionally as damage control or underhandedly without the knowledge of Davis, this single paragraph makes 40 years of so called "holiness" standards useless and demeans everyone who ever followed all the stupid rules that were contrived by Davis.
If you are in the ntcc and can read this one paragraph without getting mad and questioning the wasted years of your life, than you will probably follow this bunch to the edge of the world, only to find out that it was all a lie. Don't believe for a minute that the Davises and the Kekels aren't laughing at you and mocking you for being ignorant enough to give your life's earnings to them. You (ntcc'rs) and I are much alike. We both were caught up in one of the biggest scams of the century. The only difference is that I and others that leave comments here have had our eyes open. You have to be completely blind to read what Kekel wrote and to stay in the ntcc.
If you are a spouse of an ntcc minister or member; keep praying and work really hard to convince your loved one to leave this corrupt organization, before they get to your spouse and influence them to leave you.
I'll never encourage anyone to leave their spouse, but stay with them, love them and stand by them. Let them know what you know and what we know. You have a lot more to offer them than the ntcc. I'm saying this because there are many spouses that love their husbands or wives. One wants to leave while the other wants to stay. The ntcc will give you an ultimatum at some point if find out you want to leave. They will drive a wedge between you and encourage you to depart, splitting up your marriage and family. This is not of God. It's so far away from being godly it's not funny. It's sick and in the end, I believe your love will win out. Stay encouraged.
I felt compelled to share this because we have been contacted by more than one person in the past that has shared this with us anonymously through email and our blogs. We know that one of the most wicked and evil tactics that the ntcc will use against you is to split you and your family up.
We greatly admire your courage and persistence in this fight. If you ever think that the ntcc leadership actually loves you and is of God, Copy the paragraph written above that Kekel wrote and read it every day. Compare it to what you see and read every day in the bible. Stay true to your spouse and don't let these corrupter's of relationships and families destroy your's.
DnA
Can anyone in the ntcc give an account of one true act of real love by your leadership? I'm just asking for one.
ReplyDeleteL. Travis said:
ReplyDelete"Can anyone in the ntcc give an account of one true act of real love by your leadership? I'm just asking for one."
DnA said:
You know, Larry, I can't think of one. I can't really think of any that I have done while in the ntcc either. I can think of some gestures from the leadership like Medrano giving a homeless person a sandwich, but that was just to get rid of him. They never really tried to help the man. To the ntcc, help was equivalent to indoctrinating them into their cult. After all the only true help you could give someone was to lead them to Christ which to the ntcc, means to make them a cult member. Needless to say, this did not apply to the homeless.
L. Travis said:
ReplyDelete"Can anyone in the ntcc give an account of one true act of real love by your leadership? I'm just asking for one."
DnA said:
The homeless were beyond our help; only God could help them. Giving to them was a waste of money. Don't bring them to church. The homeless, were treated as dogs in the ntcc.
But we find that is not the case with Lasurus who was wanting a few crumbs from Davis's I mean the rich mans table. Lasurus ends up in a better place than the rich man. Lasurus will be shouting on the streets of gold and the rich man is going to be tormented forever. I would hate to be guilty of treating the homeless like the ntcc treats them.
Blessed are the poor!
DnA
I remember a message that mck preached one time. It had to do with Semper Fi.
ReplyDeleteThis message was about staying true to the org. no matter what.
It sounds to me that mck is not staying true to what he was preaching because in his blog he was trying to put the "old rules" and "old ways" that the org. had when it started, in a bad light.
In other words, he is washing his hands from the ntcc of old.
It's evident that the new generation of leaders is trying to reinvent NTCC without being perceived as doing so. I suggested to Mike a few years back that he use his influence to become an agent of change, and he disavowed that any change had occurred or was needed. He does want change, though, but not for the right reasons, and at that point, some things had already occurred. Any changes don't really affect his lifestyle anyway, because he's pretty much been exempted from/ignored any rules he didn't like. No, change is attractive now because the old ways aren't sufficient to furnish the kind of cash cow they could have if they'd just lighten up, since the cat is out of the bag about their soul-trapping ways and people are wary. But they can't be too obvious about it, because that would call their integrity into question, since they've promoted these rules and sent people to hell for violating them for years now. So it's a delicate balance, and having people on the internet calling them out on their hypocrisy isn't helping them pull it off.
ReplyDeleteWay to go, Chief!
Way to go Vic and everyone else who posts on these blogs! I'm sure it's working.
ReplyDeleteChief
Anonymous wrote...
ReplyDeleteThis message was about staying true to the org. no matter what.
Chief said...
I've heard that same kind of message preached by Hunt also. It's nothing but a bunch of brainwashing. They want you to shut off your brain while ignoring the obvious and blindly remain loyal to the NTCC no matter what they do. Hunt called it being a "company man" and I wrote an article about it. The latest thread that Kekel started on his blog had something to do with being a team player. Same garbage. What in the world has Mike Kekel or RWD done that warrants my loyalty? SQUAT!!! What has any NTCC leader done that warrants my loyalty? Nothing! Hunt and his Wife went above and beyond to look out for my family one time when my wife was sick and I appreciate it big time but that doesn't mean I'm supposed to be blind to the NTCCs double standards.
That also doesn't give the Hunts a get out of jail free pass. If they support Kekel and RWD, they are as much a part of the problem as anyone else and I'm calling it like it like I see it. I appreciate what they've done but they still need to wake up and realize that MCK and RWD are two con artists.
Chief
COMMON CHARACTERISTICS OF HOW THE CULTS OPERATE
ReplyDeleteFor abusive cults, the key word is CONTROL CONTROL CONTROL by Submitting to the Leadership - leaders tend to be the absolute end, looked to as prophets of God, as specially anointed apostles. Or they can be a strong, controlling, manipulative personality who demands submission even if he changes his views or conflicts occur in doctrine or behavior. sometimes they can be looked on as God Himself. Often to obey a leader and their teaching is equal to obeying God.
It can take time for them to gain power over the new convert, but it will eventually be there. Control is usually overwhelming and can cover most aspects of the followers' lives: Dress codes, activities, finances, time, possessions and relationships. They can dictate to the member who to see, what to do, what is the right thing to say, and how to say it. Various degrees of control can be experienced, from subtle manipulation to blatant ordering. They will expect Rigid obedience of the members time and activities - involving their followers in physically and emotionally draining activities leaving little time for privacy and reflection, or questioning their authority. Expecting one to show up when everyone else does, and everything is usually done in groups.
The methods of control which are used is usually FEAR of displeasing God the leader or both. Fear of rejection, punishment, losing ones salvation, missing the rapture, going to hell. Guilt, Fear, intimidation are Weapons used to maintain their loyalty and devotion to the group.
Intimidation and accusation are the most often used. For example, any questioning of authority is treated as rebellion, and not trusting. They suppress questions and conform to the groups behavior. They Discourage Critical or Rational Thought and Questions they will reply with comments like, "Satan is the cause of all doubt; he is keeping you from the Truth," or it will take time to understand the deep things of God. Critical thinking is discouraged being called prideful or sinful or rebellious. No independent thinking is encouraged.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteWhat a bunch of whiners you people are! Holy cow! Boo Hoo
You have all exchanged gods. Period. And all of your complaints make you feel justified.
I've been in NTCC close to twenty years now and I need God more now than ever before.
Anonymous said:
ReplyDelete"What a bunch of whiners you people are! Holy cow! Boo Hoo
You have all exchanged gods. Period."
DnA said:
You are right, We have exchanged Gods. We no longer serve Rwd, but we exchanged him for the only true God. You obviously have not.
By the way, "Holy cow" is a social curse word or Christian curse word according to your god Rwd, and the fact that you capitalized Holy is just about borderline blasphemy of the Holy Ghost according to your god. One person I know made a joke about the movie called St. Elmos fire, saying that he thought the Holy Ghost came down on a Catholic church. The super spiritual Rwd wannabe rebuked the brother and said that it was blasphemy of the Holy Ghost to say such a thing. Can you see how messed up this anonymous poster and the ntcc is?
DnA
"You have all exchanged gods. Period."
ReplyDeleteYou're right about that; we've forsaken manpleasing and pastor worship. You should try it; there's no living water issuing from the broken cisterns in your "leadership." Twenty years, huh? You must be pretty parched by now. Maybe you've forgotten what a real soul quenching feels like (although no doubt you're familiar with Spirit-quenching).
Do yourself a favor and come out from among them, my fearfully anonymous friend.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteWhat a bunch of whiners you people are! Holy cow! Boo Hoo
I've been in NTCC close to twenty years now and I need God more now than ever before.
Chief said...
What an idiot you are. You say you need God more than ever? Then why are you still with the NTCC? You want God and double standards? You want God and a bunch of bogus rules that Kekel the con artist said he was in the unfortunate position of having to enforce? Since when is God a part of all that mess? You are just a blind sucker who won't listen to common sense.
Go ahead and stay with the NTCC. It will do you good to waste even more of your life blindly following a bunch of con artist. Go be a good boy and pay some more tithes and offerings. Grant Kekel has expenses at his secular Catholic college that you need to help with, you sucker.
Chief
Hey, lets give anon a little credit here! He claims to need God now more than ever....that is true, all christians should feel that way! But, he/she probably needs God now more than ever because he is getting older, has been tithing and offering to a corrupt system, probably works side by side with illegal immigrants doing the same lowly labor job as them because he is not allowed to better himself because of ntcc. Also, his wife (if he is still married) is probably house bound and become as big as a house, which is really adds temptation to a man as he is out and about seeing all the woman who actually take care of themselves. He/she definitely needs God now more than ever!!! Or....maybe just needs an escape from the psychological hell hole called ntcc!
ReplyDeletesincerely,
a relative of the ntcc lost!
A relative of the NTCC lost wrote...
ReplyDeleteescape from the psychological hell hole called ntcc!
Jeff said...
I never quite heard it said that way but I wholeheartedly concur. If fact I don't know if I ever heard the NTCC described better. "The psychological hell hole". Hey everyone, that really sums it up. I might start a thread with that title. Great post Anonymous!
Chief
Yes, that is the statement of the day.
ReplyDeleteI recall the quote that dk said to one of the minister's wife: Next time I'm not marrying a preacher!
In other words she in a subliminal way was saying that being married to a "man of God" was not that great.
Maybe alot of the wives are overweight because of all the stress they are under.
Can you imagine Jeff being a woman in the ntcc and always having to rely on the man for everything.
What if the man is moved every 3 or 4 years? Never having stability, always wondering where they are going to go next and how are the needs going to be met year after year.
If you are a woman in the ntcc and you are having mental issues, you need to seek help because it is not the devil fighting you it is the realization that something is not right in the org. you know it.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteIf you are a woman in the ntcc and you are having mental issues, you need to seek help because it is not the devil fighting you it is the realization that something is not right in the org. you know it.
Jeff said...
You better believe it. And there are plenty of sick women in the NTCC. All kinds of NTCC women were and are physically and or mentally sick. And the NTCC false prophets say, "They need to trust God". Well that is not what God is looking for in this case. God needs them to do enough and make enough sound decisions so that they can take care of themselves. Proverbs 31 ladies. WILL YOU READ IT AND THINK ABOUT IT? That woman helped her husband take care of her. READ IT!!!!!! I'm not making it up? READ IT!!!!!
You woman are stressed out, overweight, moving around every so many years because you and your husband allow it to happen and it causes you to start to loose your mind because you are worried all the time and rightfully so!!!! I'd be worried to if I was married to a dude who never provided me with any real stability and we were constantly living from paycheck to paycheck and he was quiting jobs and starting over fresh every time you blinked. God doesn't want you to trust him in that situation. God wants you to get some sense and start making logical decisions and he'll pick up the slack, but when you are constantly making illogical decision you become a victim of your own idiocy.
Your husband gets a decent job and what does he do? Quit so he can become full time under the pretense that your church members are supposed to provide for you. Well then you become broke and you don't even know how you are going to pay your bills and then you look for a handout and badger your congregates for yet even more money then they already give which is too much to begin with. The NTCC plan is not only not biblical but it sucks and it results in a bunch of physically and mentally sick women and I've seen it.
Why are so many NTCC women sick? I could go down the list but it would be pointless. Don't make me start a list. Overseers wives, pastors wives, helpers wives, SICK one right after another. I was hardly ever around the overseers but when they did come around their wives always had some kind of physical problem that was notable and that included Olson's wife and my wife and I just thought of two others immediately. The wife of practically every NTCC pastor I ever had was stricken with some type of sickness or illness or they were over weight.
Buddy the NTCC is one SICK organization and it's lifestyle related. I truly feel bad for you NTCC women. The NTCC and your husbands are putting you through hell. The really sick part is if the NTCC is as messed up as I KNOW it is, your life could be a living hell on earth and then you could die and go to hell because the NTCC system has nothing to do with what true salvation is supposed to be all about.
Many of you NTCCers have denied the faith because you don't even take care of your family. You are worse than infidels. 1 Tim 5:8 READ IT!!! READ IT!!! READ IT!!! And women, you are supposed to be helping your husbands and that include more than cooking, cleaning and having sex!!! Proverbs 31. READ IT!!
Chief
Anon said "I've been in NTCC close to twenty years now and I need God more now than ever before."
ReplyDeleteAnon, what a statement. don't you realize the reality of your statement? Yes we all need God everyday, but you said "more than ever before". This is the place that ntcc has brought you to. You should be on here talking about how much closer to God you are after 20 years. Instead you come on here and reveal the truth about yourself, and that is that after 20 years of being part of that sycophant org. you have nothing to show for it.
You are like the church at Laodicea in the book of Revelation, you try to pretend that everything is fine. But you, and everybody on this blog know the real deal.
Rev. 3:17 Jesus said...and know not that you are wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Ver.(18) I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
I think you need to wake up and smell the coffee.
I've also thought that the church at Laodicea properly described the NTCC. I like the last part. I never really paid attention to the last part until you just posted it. "that thou mayest see."
ReplyDeleteThat is so true. The amazing ability of the NTCC leadership is to keep their people in the dark. They keep information hidden and then what's really amazing is when the information comes out the people still can't see! It's so plain but these people are so brainwashed that they just won't open their eyes to the obvious. Kekel's statement starting this thread should be a real eye opener. I see why Jesus said, "anoint thine eyes with eyesalve". This is something "they" have to do. You can give them all the information in the world but if they won't open their eyes, (mind) and perceive, the information is useless. It will be a real eye opener when some of them die to hear the Lord say, "I tried to warn you but you ignored all the information I sent your way".
Of course I can't predict that's what the Lord will say but it sure does line up with the train of thought found in some of the Gospels. Who knows what the Lord will say. Actually I know one thing he'll say because he said he'll say it. "Depart from me ye that work iniquity". We know he'll say that and these people in the NTCC better wake up and realize that they are partakers with guys like RWD and Kekel who work all kinds of iniquity.
Some of these pastors want to sit back and think they have nothing to do with Kekel and RWD and these pastors say, "I'm here at my church taking care of my own bean patch." They better think again. They send their money to Graham don't they? Is 20 thousand dollars a year for G. Kekel's high school and a secular college education where you money should go that was give by your congregation? Your people are getting used and you are knowingly a part of it. They send their people to the NTCC sorry school of rules which Kekel slammed in this very thread. You pastors better believe you are partakers in other mans sins. Better open your eyes or is your whole lot in life to do no more than accumulate wealth and make investments at the expense of your church members? What I've written is true and not one person can deny it.
Chief
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteChief said, (speaking of ntcc pastors):
ReplyDelete"I'm here at my church taking care of my own bean patch." They better think again. They send their money to Graham don't they?"
DnA said:
They don't even have their own bean patch. Every bit of work they do in "their own" bean patch is devoured by the ntcc locusts anyway. I don't care if they stay in a place for ten years which is highly unlikely. They have to send their converts to graham eventually along with their money. If they don't send anyone to the ntbs an overseer will stop by and try to figure out what is going on. When they move you to another work, your bean patch will be devoured by the next abusive jerk that rides in on his high horse to shake the coconuts out of the tree.
"Your church" is definitely not really your church, just as your money is really not your money. Your converts are not yours and for that matter they are not God's either. You might get some that are genuinely saved, but the longer they stay in, their salvation will rot away and they will become more like Muck and R-dub.
Jesus said to the Father, "those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition". I believe with all my heart that if the ntcc were of God they would be able to keep much more than 1% of the people they reach. Their numbers would be multiplying as they did in the early church. They are losing just about everyone and there isn't even any persecution taking place.
The difference is that the leaders of the ntcc have erred in the faith and followed their own greedy ways, desiring the praise of men and they have gone whoring after false gods, ie. money and power. The ntcc will tell you that the Xers are all son's of perdition but all we are doing is giving true accounts of the outright abusive behavior that we have witnessed.
I know what people will say. Look how evil we are for saying such horrible things about the ntcc leaders. We are full of bitterness and evil for saying such things, yet they say worse things about us and they do worse things than we do. We aren't out here encouraging people to sacrifice everything they have so a few greedy con artists can live like movie stars while the suckers that follow them are mostly impoverished all in the name of God. We aren't afraid of you ntcc'rs because you aren't even close to God. Even the devil is'nt fooled by the phony. Jesus I know, Paul I know but who are you?
DnA
That's funny DnA. The seven sons of Sceva. Ha, ha. Here they are.
ReplyDeleteRDUB, MUCK, Olson, Ashmore, Kinson, Jones and Defrancesco.
Chief
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
ReplyDeleteTake my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.~Jesus
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you more work than you can handle.
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am arrogant and mighty in heart: and ye shall find no rest unto your souls.
For my yoke is hard, and my burden is heavy.~RWD
You know chief, I think that when mck was writing that stuff about all those rules that had been put in place by the ntcc of old he was really trying to separate himself from the "old" team.
ReplyDeleteHe knows that when rwd passes away alot of people won't be loyal to him or olson so he must say things to dissociate him from the "old" to save face with the critics and those that for years stood faithful but knew in their hearts that not everything was right in the org.
There are people that have left because of the lack of wisdom on the part of the org. that is for sure and mck probably thinks that
too.
Who knows, maybe he thinks that those that left were just "friendly fire" incidents on part of the org.
We'll see if he is able to pull this out. I doubt very seriously that everybody is all gaga about the new and improved org.
Just remember his own wife called him paranoid in front of debbie reed.
It is quite the revelation when d.r. posted saying how tk addressed him in front of her, saying to him: "don't be so paranoid"
Can you imagine, mck's own wife rebuking him in front of debbie reed! Where's all the hoopla about rebuking elders?
It is quite the revelation and to think that rwd's rule of never correcting your husband in front of people, his own daughter, who should know better for she is a teacher herself in the bible school, forgets this rule.
But it doesn't matter one way or another.
We are not perfect either and we must not think that they are, for if we do, then we are making them as gods, but that is another subject.
Another great description of the NTCC and it's leaders. LT is right about RWD. Here is another of RWDs physiological hell hole well known brainwashing statements.
ReplyDeleteRWD... "The hardest thing you'll ever do is make the rapture of the church".
Here are a couple rhetorical questions. Where is that statment found in the bible and how does RWD know that? It's not and he doesn't. Why would RWD make that statement so often? Here is the obvious answer. Because RWD wanted to get as much work out of his slaves as he possibly could and he wanted his drones to feel that no matter how much they did, it was never enough. Hence, RWD placed a HEAVY BURDEN on everyone who he had effectively brainwashed. LT is exactly right and he didn't exagerate. Look at the contrast between RWD and Jesus.
RWD is full of it.
Chief
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI think that when mck was writing that stuff about all those rules that had been put in place by the ntcc of old he was really trying to separate himself from the "old" team.
Chief said...
You may very well be right. The problem is and we've said this probably 1000 times; RWD said that everything he did was by the Holy Ghost. The assumption was that if RWD said it, it was just like it had come from God. RWD said, if you had a problem with him you had a problem with God. Well RWD is full of garbage and or Mike Kekel was wrong and frankly I'm sure both scenarios apply.
MCK said the rules were bogus but yet he elected to enforce the bogus rules that he didn't even agree with. Both he and RWD are wrong and I can't follow a leader like that. Those guys are phony, fake, false prophets. Mike's very statement is proof. You NTCC people who give that church your money might as well throw your money in the trash. At least then a bum who really needs it might find it. If you are convinced you are obligated to pay tithe, send your money to me. 10% every month. You can't do that? Show me in the Bible what tithe is supposed to be used for once it's given by the tither? I ask that because I'll tell you what I'll do with it. Give it all back to you as a gift with interest. I'll also provide you with guidance just like Paul did for the Corinthians and I won't charge you a dime just like Paul didn't charge the Corinthians. Am I not qualified? What makes your pastors qualified, RWD? I rest my case. I have plenty of experience as a real leader and proven counselor with certificates to back up my qualifications. I'm not talking about some bogus degree that RWD claimed he has but won't ever show. I know the Bible and I'm not going to twist it like RWD has. The NTCS doesn't make anyone more qualified to be a pastor than I am. Mayers used to get the Bible so twisted up it was unbelievable. What, I'm less qualified than him? Oberhauser ran off almost his entire church and I'm less qualified as a leader than he is? I'm making a point people. I'm trying to get everyone to use their brains and think.
The NTCC won't give you your money back but I will. If you decide that you want to leave my church, I'll refund you every dime that you've ever given with interest. Sounds wild doesn't it? Well I'll guarantee that you are doing worse when you give you money to the NTCC then if you gave your money to me. I'll open an account for each tither and print out statements so they can look at the balance whenever they want.
What, that is not tithing? According to what Bible? Show me according to the Bible that the way you are tithing in the NTCC is biblically correct? RWDs doctrinal statement says tithe can't be used for charity. Show me in the bible where is says that? So if you allow RWD to make up a rule on how he uses the tithe money that you give, I can make a rule saying I will give it all back to you whenever you decide? Now if you want it to be used so I can buy land or a huge house or use it to pay for my kids expensive education then tell me and you'll know that is exactly how it got spent. Open books baby.
Do you all think this sounds crazy? No, what you are doing in the NTCC with your money is crazy. Think people, think, use your brains that God gave you.
Chief
Someone brought up women in the NTCC being overweight. Women in NTCC are overweight for 2 reasons.
ReplyDelete1. They are poor and can only afford cheap junk food and carbohydrates, they shop on tight budgets and at discount stores. None(ok most of them) are buying high quality fruits and veggies, that's for sure!
2. They have no control of their own lives they are told what to wear, how to act, and are subject to their husbands and a church. Eating is their only outlet.
And I am currently (unfortunately one of them)
Women are also overweight because they are hindered from getting proper exercise. Accusations of "lasciviousness" and admonitions that "bodily exercise profiteth little" do their part to discourage participation in a healthy lifestyle. Then, after the mission to turn them into fat cows has succeeded, RW cruelly mocks and taunts them from the pulpit. It's a sick trap.
ReplyDeleteA Sister wrote...
ReplyDeleteAnd I am currently (unfortunately one of them)
Chief asked...
I feel bad for you and I think I know who you are? Whether I'm right or wrong, I would not announce it. You may know my wife? Wow Sister, I don't even know you but I really feel for your situation.
Feel free to keep posting whenever you like. Contrary to the NTCC leadership, I can be trusted. Be careful what you write though. The NTCC detectives have a knack for putting little tidbits of information together to determine the identity of people who post on these blogs. I'm telling you Sister, if you don't want problems, don't give them much information on this blog. They go to extremes to figure out who is loyal to them and who is not. Change your writing style if you post again. Write like you are illiterate or something. Never refer to your past. Don't use words that only you would use. You women have it tough. You are like prisoners cause it's hard for you to get out.
If I had the money and means I'd start a rescue mission for traumatized NTCC women who just want out!!! If your husbands don't want you back under your terms then let the NTCC be full a bunch of single dudes. I'm not suggesting divorce, I'm suggesting escape, in the hopes that your husband will come to his senses. It's really starting to hit home with me about how trapped these women really are. Hang in their Sister. There is a pretty good group of support people who've gotten out if you ever need anyone to talk to who would truly understand plight.
Jeff
Feel the pain of that sister because I've been there.
ReplyDeleteI know of many others that at one time were happy and free but little by little they started to retreat into their own little world.
Yes, the detectives work pretty good. There are people that would be ready to point you out.
They'll know if you attend the prayer meetings and if you volunteer at the church or who you associate with, if they don't like what they see, you'll get preached to and people will ignore you and when you try to say hi to board members wives they'll turn their back to you and then they'll begin to tell everybody to not have any thing to do with you so that you'll prayed through and seeif this brings submission on your part. I know the stares and the looks all too well, but you have to pray hard and ask God to give you guidance so that your husband will see things for what they really are.
Just don't give up on yourself.
Anon said, "They'll know if you attend the prayer meetings and if you volunteer at the church or who you associate with, if they don't like what they see"
ReplyDeleteThey have their Pharisaical measuring sticks out are are analyzing every move and every word for any sign of disloyalty. They are all paranoid. And all the while not living what is being preached themselves.
I'm supposed to feel like a worm if I don't conform to their laws and commandments of manditory prayer meetings and such and all the while their own wives are are not in subjection according to their standards. Maybe that's why their preaching is so rough, the so called male leaders aren't really leaders at home because mama is bossing them around and the only place they have a chance to boss anybody around is from the pulpit.
Anonymous said:
ReplyDelete"They have their Pharisaical measuring sticks out are are analyzing every move and every word for any sign of disloyalty. They are all paranoid. And all the while not living what is being preached themselves."
DnA said:
Wow. You are so right and while you were writing this on Jeff's blog, I was writing the same thing on ours. Confirmation that we are winning.
I am so glad that people are realizing the double standards that exist in the ntcc. Rwd should clean up his own house before he tears down the houses of everyone else. Do you think Grant will ever be treated the way that we have? Will his relationships be manipulated and his life be looked at through a microscope?
The ntcc leaders are a bunch of hypocrites that lay heavy burdens on others that they are unwilling to bear themselves. They will not lift a finger to help you, but they make a living tearing you down. They openly disparage and disgrace people for doing what they have done all their lives.
DnA
I hate the ntcc and I am not ashamed to say this. We are no longer on the defense, but we are now on the offense. In the past I have been ever so careful not to offend anyone, and I've apologized to people for saying things that they felt were a little harsh, but I'm tired of giving the ntcc a pass. They are either right or wrong. There is no in between. They have wreaked havoc in our lives and we are supposed to be kind and meek. If we get upset, we are bitter. If we get angry, we are allowing hatred to foster in our hearts. Well, you might want to chug on over to mamby pamby land and get some self confidence for yourself because what I'm going to say will probably make some you think less of me, (if that's possible), but the truth is, in case you haven't noticed, I DON'T CARE.
ReplyDeleteWe love you all, ntcc'rs and Xer's alike. However, it's amazing how fearful people are on both sides. You leave the ntcc, but it never leaves you. So many people live in fear and they can't ever seem to shake the ntcc dust off of their feet. Its been shared, insinuated and implied that those that speak out against the ntcc are wrong for doing so and that we should exercise caution and walk on egg shells when breaching the subject of ntcc. This is exactly what the ntcc wants you to do. Don't stir up the pot. Don't cause any trouble, just be meek and lowly. Just sit back and watch them destroy peoples lives and God forbid you should say anything negative in retaliation.
Even Xer's pull out their ntcc measuring sticks and they hold on to the deeply rooted teachings of the ntcc that say it is wrong to defend yourself or to speak out against them. "Let God take care of them". Guess what? God uses people. Guess what? Right is right and wrong is still wrong. There are so many examples in the bible of the people of God being angry with righteous indignation towards people just like the ntcc. What we are doing is a drop in the bucket compared to some of the biblical examples. Jesus drove the hypocrites out of the temple because they were doing what? They were selling things in the house of God. Come to conference and while you are here you can subscribe to the trumpet. We'll sell you our bylaws for 5 bucks a pop. Rwd using the pulpit for an auctioneer's platform. He needs to be driven out. Why do people have such a hard time seeing the wickedness of the ntcc leadership?
DnA
Thanks for the encouragement ya'll. We are in an odd situation. My husband certainly doesn't see himself with NTCC forever (Thank GOD). But, we are there for now. I won't get into the details but, there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
ReplyDeleteWe are an organic/all natural house hold and my husband helps with the cleaning too:) We are looking into me getting a part time job soon. Mostly for me to get out of the house and have some conversations with someone over the age of 5! And of course some spending money for me. So glad we aren't in Washington where I'm sure we would be "spied on" Thankfully we are in a happy place surrounded by friends and family who aren't apart of NTCC.
I'm also thankful I am not currently at the "confrence" going on in MO right now... what a terrible way to spend time off from work!
Thanks again for encouragement and for keeping this blog and for all of you who share your testimonies. It helps get me through....
And Jeff, I would host a rescue for NTCC women in a heart beat. Sometimes I just want to walk up to some of them and ask them if they need help or want out? I've never seen or heard of anyone that I know being physically abused( I don't doubt it goes on either) but, I certainly see plenty of verbal and emotional abuse going on. It's just plain sad:(
ReplyDeleteSee, I told you! We are winning! Yehaw! People inside the ntcc, just waiting for the right opportunity to get out. Sounds like you are doing the right thing, anonymous. When the opportunity presents itself, escape for your lives! You'll be so much happier!
ReplyDeleteI remember dennis preaching to the women. He said that sometimes he didn't trust women because they were very perceptive.
ReplyDeleteAnd we are, and sometimes we see what our husbands don't because they are just in the "I wanna do what God wants me to do" mode and don't realize that they are just trying to please men.
I've been in teachings where the woman is put as the one who is at fault for bringing the husband's ministry down. I've heard it say that we women are too lazy to leave our husband that is why we stay with him even though we don't agree with the org.
I can't believe that just because we want a few things than we are materialistic!
I appreciate my husband so much for giving me all he can and for supporting me and he goes without for me to have and I've seen his sacrifice, that is why I stay loyal to him and pray that God will help him.
Thanks for this outlet.
Anonymous Sister said...
ReplyDeleteI've heard it said that we women are too lazy to leave our husband that is why we stay with him even though we don't agree with the org.
Chief said...
I believe they would say some garbage like that. I'll tell you why some of you don't leave; because you can't. Where are you going to go? With what car, what money, what job skills, what credit? Who are you going to stay with? The NTCC sets up women for complete failure. Sure you can look for a job but how are you going to get back and forth to work without your own car? You do have options but if your husband won't support you, all your options are limited. It's like being held captive. Someone reminded me of that in a previous thread I started.
RWD, the chauvinist pig has it set up that way for a reason. Because if he can control the women, he can control everything. Without complete control of the women he has no slaves to cook and clean and look after a bunch of brothers who occupy his serviceman's homes. If he teaches the truth and stops lying to women by telling them it's unlawful for them to work, his whole serviceman's home scheme falls completely apart. For his serviceman's home scheme to work, he must teach that women can't work. They don't have their own money, they don't have their own car in most cases, they have little or no independence what so ever and Proverbs 31 teaches the exact opposite. RWD has turned NTCC women into a bunch of slaves. Look what the Sister wrote...
"We are looking into me getting a part time job soon. Mostly for me to get out of the house and have some conversations with someone over the age of 5! And of course some spending money for me."
Jeff said...
Some spending money for her? What kind of mess it that? What is wrong with that system? If my wife wants something she buys it? I'm not talking about spending a million dollars here but come on! A women having spending money shouldn't even be an issue but in the NTCC it obviously is. Even if my wife didn't teach school, she has spending money. All our money goes in "OUR" accounts. My wife takes out money and I take out money. I don't even know half the time if and when my wife spends money. All I know is that she does unless I decide to check the statements from our various bank accounts. She can check them also. We have like 6 accounts we both have access to. Some are savings so we don't bother them "much" but two of our 4 checking accounts are like revolving doors. I don't have the desire or time to follow every place my wife spends money.
I happen to know that I waste more money than she does anyway. NO DOUBT! When I say waste, I mean buying things I don't even need. Point being, for a woman to have spending money in my family is like a natural part of life. Like putting your socks on each day. My daughter is in college. She is a full time student with a job on campus and we send her money. She is 18 years old and she has plenty of spending money. Why shouldn't she? Why else do I work? Just so I can spend all the money I make? Why else does she work? I don't even consider it spending money. It's just money, and what do you do with money anyway? Spend it and save some. Land of the free, home of the brave!!! In the US we should all have money. The land of opportunity. My little boy who is 8 years old has money in HIS wallet and a nice little bank account. That is HIS money, $400, $500 dollars or so? He spends, he saves. Should a grown woman be any different? You better believe Tanya Kekel wastes money on everything she can dream up.
Do you think there was ever a time that Grant Kekel didn't have money? Unlikely. Sisters, if you don't have at least have a couple thousand dollars at your immediate disposal that you don't have to ask for, there is a real problem. You should have a whole lot more than that.
Chief
Anon Sis said,
ReplyDelete"I remember dennis preaching to the women. He said that sometimes he didn't trust women because they were very perceptive."
DnA say,
HA! That just shows what a liar denis is and how afraid he is that the women are on to him. Guess what, d, you should be afraid. The women are smart and do know a fraud like you and davis! Be afraid. Be very afraid. Muhahaha!
Anon Sis said,
ReplyDelete"And we are [very perceptive], and sometimes we see what our husbands don't because they are just in the "I wanna do what God wants me to do" mode and don't realize that they are just trying to please men."
DnA say,
Ding Ding Ding DIng Ding! You get the prize again, Sister. The men are in that mode and thrash mode because the ntcc trains them to be that way and makes rules restricting their time. They don't have time to think and evaluate motives.
ntcc can't afford to allow the men to have time to think. Because once they do get that time, the men will become "very perceptive" truth detectors too. They will see how all the rules are made to shift everyone's loyalty from "Jesus first" to "pleasing men".
It is subtle "You please God by obeying the man of gawd. And since I have for years declared myself to be a man of gawd, you must obey me..." It's sad to see how many of us went from normal thoughtful Christ-first centered Christians down the slippery path of putting davis and his false doctrines before the will of God:
You don't do it consciously. You do it by degrees. The Holy Ghost whispers in your heart to pray for an injured man; but you delay and disobey God; because you remember the false doctrine of davis not to pray for that man because: "If you do and God doesn't heal him, you might destroy his faith."
What kind of a lie of the devil is that davis doctrine?
God said: Jhn 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Clearly God wants to heal people. How do we know? Because Jesus went about doing the will of the Father, healing the sick and raising the dead. So did the apostles. But davis hinders the work of God with his false doctrine.
And we slowly learn his pernicious ways. When the only thing we should really focus on is pleasing God. Just ask yourself:
IS THIS WHAT GOD WANTS ME TO DO? WOULD / DID JESUS DO THIS?
But in ntcc too many focus on pleasing davis and kekel. They have become men pleasers as the Sister pointed out. Very perceptive of you, Sister! =D
DnA
Anon Sis said,
ReplyDelete"I've been in teachings where the woman is put as the one who is at fault for bringing the husband's ministry down."
DnA say,
Oh, yeah, another ntcc doozie (sp?). This whopper of a lie is often used in ntcc. Most of the time it comes across in this one particular phrase:
"Lady, you are gonna have to answer to Gawd for ruining your husband's ministry."--The rest of the story being that davis is saying this woman will face the judgment or condemnation of God for "ruining her husband's ministry" by, [[drum roll please . . . yup, you guessed it]] by GETTING PREGNANT.
Uhm [long pause for effect], the last time I checked, pregnancy generally takes the man's "involvement" to get that baby rollin' {so to speak} !! H E L L O!!
What a bunch of manipulative hogwash too! Married women are SUPPOSED TO get pregnant! Children are an HERITAGE and a REWARD from God:
Psa 127:3 Lo, children [are] an heritage of the LORD: [and] the fruit of the womb [is his] reward.
It's okay to be married and have children! Don't let some maniac like dictator davis tell you otherwise!!!!!!!!
"ruining their husband's ministry" is just cult jargon.
cont'd below
DnA
continued from above --
ReplyDeleteWhen we were in the borg, ntcc didn't even 'let' men have a "ministry" until they were married! So ntcc trying to break up your marriage just means they know you are onto their schemes. They know you want out.
But they want to salvage and recycle one person from your family back into the ntcc. They don't care if it makes people adulterers. They don't care if your kids grow up without a mom or dad. They don't care about you "period".
They only see you as a skill set or a piece of property. They only see you for what they can get out of you. If you stop producing for them according to their standards, then you are gone.
They will grease the wheels to get you out. They will tell you "If you don't like it, there is the door." And they will tell your spouse "Just let them go."
It's called divide and conquer. Everyone knows how it works. That's what this "you are ruining your husband's ministry" nonsense is really all about. He didn't have an ntcc ministry before you came along, did he?
And if he would get wise and get out of ntcc, he would then be free from the false teachings of life-blood-sucking-leeches like davis and kekel. Then he could have a real ministry to the LORD without the phony garbage getting in the way. The bible says:
Pro 18:22 [Whoso] findeth a wife findeth a good [thing], and obtaineth favour of the LORD.
Men, don't let some parasite like davis and kekel or their busybody wives get all up in your ear or inside your heart talking smack about your wife. Love her. Cherish her. Thank God for her. Then you'll see what a real ministry is all about.
You've already obtained favour with God when He let you find her. Remember that is how God sees your union-as a thing of His favor, His blessing. You should too.
DnA
Uhm [long pause for effect], the last time I checked, pregnancy generally takes the man's "involvement" to get that baby rollin' {so to speak} !! H E L L O!!
ReplyDeleteShe didn't get herself pregnant! Duh! The dude got her pregnant! Now there is nothing wrong with that; but stop trying to blame her for her husband getting her in the family way!!!! First of all, it's natural. Second of all, it's a blessing. Third of all, it's none of your business! H E L L O!! Last time I checked, you don't pay their bills, they pay your bills. So shut up!
DnA wrote...
ReplyDeleteUhm [long pause for effect], the last time I checked, pregnancy generally takes the man's "involvement" to get that baby rollin' {so to speak} !! H E L L O!!
What a bunch of manipulative hogwash too! Married women are SUPPOSED TO get pregnant!
Jeff said...
Some great writing DnA. I love the way you put it. A bunch of manipulative hogwash. It takes two to make it happen. Just because RWD can't control himself doesn't make the women wrong. Manipulative hogwash from the crook himself. I'd love to sit in a church service and hear Davis say that junk now. I'd stand up right in the middle of service and boldly proclaim, "That a bunch of manipulative hogwash straight from the psychological cesspool, your big fat mouth.
RWD really needs to get a good chewing out. If that happened a few good times he learn to keep his big trap shut. Why do we talk like this you ask? Because RWD has been psychologically abusing people for entirely too long and it's time to fire back and let people know how we feel.
Chief
Seriously, folks, all you have to do is follow Christ and what His Word teaches. You don't need davis and kekel kontrolling every aspect of your lives. That is as unnatural as homosexuality and bestiality.
ReplyDeleteGod should be your God. The bible never shows people lining up to get a man's permission to talk to another person about courting and dating. Cults do that.
The bible never shows Jesus jacking-up the disciples for being married or having kids. Cults do that.
Set yourself free from the cult. Allow God to be your God, not some man who masquerades as a pastor but has rules in place to make himself your gawd. That is not what God intends for your life.
His Word says:
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him [be] glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
THAT is the plan God has for you. Stop seeking approval from demented men like davis and krazy kooks like kekel. Just focus on Jesus and see what He will do through you!
DnA
Anon Sis said,
ReplyDelete"I've heard it say that we women are too lazy to leave our husband that is why we stay with him even though we don't agree with the org."
DnA say,
What a load of bible school! Most women stay with their husband because they love him. They know how the org will try to break up their marriage, even though God commanded:
Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Mar 10:9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
davis and kekel and their wives continually disobey God and try to break up marriages just because one person no longer wants to be the property of the ntcc.
Calling the women "lazy" is just davis' and kekel's way of trying to make the woman look bad just because she wants to serve God in Spirit and Truth, free of the ntcc shackles.
Calling the women "lazy" is probably kekel and davis admitting that their own wives don't measure up to the ntcc standards.
Think about it. tanya kekel has all kinds of time and money to go to the malls in Seattle and shop to her heart's content. But she is what, too lazy or stupid that she can't even do her own grocery shopping at a store 5 minutes down the road from her house? She is too lazy or poor to clean her own house or to pay someone an honest wage to do it for her?
verna davis has all kinds of time and energy to stay up all night painting ugly roses and portraits that don't look like the people they are supposed to be; but she is what, too lazy or stupid to be able to do her own laundry or clean her ironing? Instead she takes advantage of others, manipulating them to do what she is supposed to do? Be domestically inclined?
Sounds like davis and kekel have issues with their wives not towing the line; so davis and kekel project their frustration with their own wives onto the congregation like bullies in the pulpit but at home they are whipped puppies. Ruff ruff. Whimper whimper. Yes dear. No dear. Right away dear.
DnA
Sisters, when I went on that rant about "spending money" my statements weren't directed toward the women in any shape from or fashion. They were directed at the NTCC leadership and their sorry system which keeps women in bondage. I understand that if money is tight a husband and or a wife may not have extra money that they can just liberally spend. I got that, so when there is a little excess, it is commonly referred to as "spending money". Money that you can spend on whatever you want that won't effect your ability to fulfill your financial obligations.
ReplyDeleteTo clarify, the problem I see is that very few NTCC women (if any other than Tanya Kekel) that I've ever known, have had unrestricted access to the married couples bank accounts, and I don't agree with that at all.
If there is money available, both parties in a marriage should have access to it and both parties should have some idea how much money is available to spend on whatever they want. That was the point I was making. It is the NTCC system which places these women in a situation where they don't just naturally have spending money most or all of the time. The NTCC system causes people not to have spending money.
So I do understand why the Sister would want to get a part time job so she would have some extra money to spend how she likes. Here are a few other solutions. Men, when you get a good job keep it and get promoted so you can get some pay raises and stop moving all around every time the NTCC leadership tells you to jump. Stop giving so much money to the church. It ain't like it's going toward saving souls. It's going toward a lavish lifestyle lived by the NTCC hierarchs. Expensive schools for the Kekels boy, giant RVs, a bunch of unnecessary building projects and the list goes on.
"Well I'm giving as unto the Lord". Oh really? Is that why your wife doesn't have spending money? The NTCC leadership has you believing that you are "giving as unto the Lord" but that is not really what is happening. You are giving the money away that God has blessed you with to a bunch of greedy rich crooks who have 50,000,000 times more money than you'll ever have. You ain't never going to have extra money if you simply "give it all away" and it's no surprise that God never really changes your financial status. You are just as broke as you were 10 years ago because every time God blesses you with money, you ignorantly give it away to a bunch of rich crooks.
Get a job and keep it, don't GIVE money away but to the needy and then remember your family is needy also, and stop moving around every couple years. Then you and your wife will always have spending money. I haven't moved in almost 5 years, no thanks to the NTCC. That was a decision I had to make with no regard for the NTCCs crooked leadership. Man, Kekel and Davis are laughing all the way to the bank every time you send your money to Graham.
Whatever, I'm getting tired and it's late. Think about it people.
Chief
I have to get up for work in the morning so me and my wife will have "PLENTY" of spending money. She has to get up for work also like the women in Proverbs 31 so she can be considered virtuous and that way, we will have even "MORE" spending money.
ReplyDeleteWe have a sporting event to go see this weekend called football, just like the sporting event that Grant Kekel played all through high school; football. The one that RWD and Kekel blessed off on. You know, the same kind of sporting event that Kekel says there is no biblically based rules against anyway and the ones the NTCC made up didn't apply to him. Well they dont' apply to me either. If Grant could play football, my family can go to a stadium and watch it.
Hey, if the Kekel family can live the good life, why can't my family? I got three tickets, one for my wife, me and my little boy. Row 6, almost center field. Maybe I can get the Kekels to come with us. They like football a lot you know. They must for Grant to play all those years.
Chief
Does anyone know Kelly Merz? He's allegedly connected with NTCC:
ReplyDeletehttp://themountainnewswa.net/2011/09/14/body-of-homicide-victim-found-in-a-shallow-grave-on-86th-ave-in-graham-identities-released/#more-3184
Vic said:
ReplyDelete"Does anyone know Kelly Merz? He's allegedly connected with NTCC"
DnA said:
Yes Vic, Kelly Merz, was an X member of the ntcc. He and his X wife were members of the Servicemen's Home in Ft. Bragg, NC. Kelly ended up in Graham, WA, where he has been living for some time.
Unfortunately, Merz at the age of 50 has confessed to and been charged with the first degree murder of his 33 year old female room mate.
We have been discussing how bad the ntcc messes people up, and here is another example of the damage that the ntcc cult has created in a persons life. Many people that have survived the ntcc cult experience have little value for life because they feel that no matter what they do, they are living under impending doom because the ntcc leadership teaches that those that leave the ntcc are hell-bound.
This is a very tragic, unfortunate story that has landed in the lap of the New Testament Christian Churches of America, in Graham Washington where the body of the murder victim was found in a shallow grave. Merz confessed to his ex-wife and later to the police that he shot his room mate in the head and buried her nearby in a field in Graham.
DnA
No doubt, the ntcc will be in damage control mode. This will be used as an example to keep people living in fear. The ntcc leadership and pastors will say, "this is what happens when you reject God".
ReplyDeleteyes, I remember that couple and to my knowledge they couldn't go to bible school because of their interracial marriage he is white and she is black.
ReplyDeleteI felt sorry for them because they were very much in love and wanted to go to bible school but you know the rules "back then" were different.
After some years I heard that they were allowed to go to graham, where they made life and ended up in a very lucrative real estate business, but no longer attended the church.
They are lucky he didn't go after someone in the ntcc. That kind of thing happens when you get mixed up with a cult like the ntcc. They drive you out of your mind.
ReplyDeleteThis dude took the life of a woman and now his life is done. In a different way, the NTCC takes the lives of women every single day by turning them into unpaid slaves. This lady being killed is a sad situation and unfortunately for her, there is nothing that can be done now. There is however still hope for the women trapped in the NTCC, (New Testament Christian Cult).
ReplyDeleteI think it's highly probable that the NTCC had something to do with this dude's head getting all screwed up. I really believe that because I've talked to people who've been all mentally twisted up by the NTCC. I could tell when I talked to them. Men and women who had their mind all warped by the NTCC. When you think screwy all the time for too many years, it's hard to get that junk out of your head. I'd love to see the NTCC outlawed.
These religious cults often turn people into psychopaths. Anyway back to my original train of thought. Ladies, this woman had her life stolen from her and you NTCC women are having your lives stolen from you also. Just in a different way.
Chief
Jeff, I can't believe what I am reading! I knew this couple from many, many years ago.
ReplyDeleteThis man was always very mild mannered and very quiet.
I know that they wanted to go to bible shool but in those years the org. still was adamnant about having people of opposite races pastoring or going to bible school because the theory was that people wouldn't accept this kind of situation.
The mertz were very good people and I was glad when I heard they finally had gone to the bible school and had done well for themselves, although they never went into a work, they stayed there in graham, to be a part of that church.
Many people that were attending the church in graham, worked for sis. mertz and she rented to many attending the bible school.
It is a sad situation, and you are right, I can't believe that this is what is has come to,
women are bound by what men has proclaimed to be the unfailling word of God, and women affraid that their every move must be right in order to be acceptable in the eyes of God.
It's incredible that I am writing this,in a free country, under the dispensation of Grace, for heaven's sake!
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI know that they wanted to go to bible shool but in those years the org. still was adamnant about having people of opposite races pastoring or going to bible school because the theory was that people wouldn't accept this kind of situation.
Jeff said...
At least that's what RWD said but that was just his way of explaining away his racism. Here is the reason I know that is true. If RWD was really worried about doing something that would run people off, he wouldn't have given people an open invitation to leave his org.
RWD... "I was here first, if you don't like it here, there is the door".
He would have stopped all that abuse committed not only by him but his pastors. So the point being, RWD ain't that worried about running people off and that wasn't his true motive for banning black/white marriages. RWD just didn't like blacks marrying whites and it's just that simple and he used that bogus explanation for an excuse. RWD runs people off one right after another and he leaves pastors in place who have a proven track record of failure but running people off needlessly. Snyder, Mayers etc. He watched Oberhauser run down the church in Columbus from about 80 to single digits, and I'm supposed to believe that RWD is really that worried about a black/white couple running people off? Mayers took a church of about 100 people and ran it down to practically no one. I'm supposed to believe that RWD is really that concerned about people being ran off from the NTCC. Am I supposed to be Sammy the Sausage Head or Willy foo-foo.
RWD is a male chauvinist, control monger, racist pig. RWD uses blacks for two reasons, because their money spends the same as whites and he sends them to cities that have a large population of blacks. Atlanta, Macon, Jackson etc. It's not like there are not whites in those cities. RWD simply has had good success with guys like Barnes and Denis, both of which have left the NTCC.
Anyone who trusts RWD is blind as a one eyed bat.
Chief
I had a ahah moment today. Those that have served will understand this. I have wondered why do I care so much about those that are still stuck in ntcc. I got OUT but there still IN! I used to see me blogging as tossing them a life preserver as they also needed. But really I cannot leave them behind. Because inside there dying! It is the Right thing to do!! I do not come on here because you think I am bitter or angry. I am not neither of those. I have much sadness for the life I led while in ntcc. It is not biblical and God was not pleased. Because eventually he used life as our way out!
ReplyDeleteFor some they may be angry,but that is how there dealing with the PTSD that there going through. We all have mental anguish! As for me,I can still attend Church,I still work on my relationship with God. You might think I am a rot gut sinner. But that is your opinion. I still love many of my friends(not the leaders) in ntcc!
And I will continue to be there for them! In hopes one day that FOG is lifted and they let there brain put it all together. The light bulb goes off and they let it all come to them. That day they will leave ntcc. Once they comprehend the truth,it all changes!
April
PS.I know this does no fit. But I had to share it!
There isn't anything wrong with that April. It fits as good as anything else. Just about all of us go in different directions around here from time to time and actually what you wrote did have relevance to much of what is written in this thread.
ReplyDeleteYou have a good one,
Chief
Wow,
ReplyDeleteYou said it, April.
By mixing a little truth with it, they had made their lie far stronger-CSLewis
ReplyDeleteI'm so happy to be free to serve the living God of the bible and not some dictator who twist the word of God into a lie. Thanks to the Grace of God freedom reigns and I'm free to love Jesus...
if anyone wants to visit kelly merz,here's the info...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.co.pierce.wa.us/cfapps/linx/calendar/GetBooking.cfm?booking_id=2011255053
it has the mailing address as well as visiting hours.... those out of state can write a letter.
ReplyDeleteI hope NTCC leaders don't go to visit him. They'll screw him up more than he already is if that is possible. For anyone who thinks I'm exaggerating or kidding I'm not one bit. Let a church who actually cares go to visit him. Let a church go to visit him who will try and do something rather than make him feel more guilty than he already does. NTCC folks will get his brain even more twisted up by making him feel like he should have never left the church. They don't care about the dude anyway. I wonder how many times they went to go visit him just to be friends after he left the NTCC? No doubt never! What he doesn't need is for someone to go and preach to him.
ReplyDeleteChief
There is a evil spirit that rules the ntcc and the people have been seduced by it.
ReplyDeleteChief, the tragedy of the year unfolding before our own eyes.
ReplyDeleteThis is not the only tragedy that has befallen an ex-member.
There was another man that was on the way up to become a something in the org. but he too was excommunicated from the org and later on he ended up in federal prison for shooting a police officer.
The sad part about all this is that many will try to link it with leaving God and the ntcc when in reality is has to do with the choices we make.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteThere was another man that was on the way up to become a something in the org.
LTravis said...
That's the problem it's an organization of some manmade religion. I will agree that we make our own choices but the ntcc doesn't help anyone but themselves.
The whole thing is sick and needs God's Grace that is the only hope for man.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteThe sad part about all this is that many will try to link it with leaving God and the ntcc when in reality is has to do with the choices we make.
Chief said...
Very true my friend but let me say this. I know for a fact that the NTCC leadership and involvement with the NTCC has psychologically messed up a good may people. How do I know? Because some people still in the NTCC and exNTCC people have been to see trained physicians and psychologists who have diagnosed them with verifiable psychological disorders that they determined were the direct result of the persons involvement with the NTCC. PTSD, anxiety attacks etc. I'm not kidding and I know the names of these people.
A couple of them were even admitted to psycho wards and advised to no longer have any involvement with the NTCC as continued involvement with the NTCC would most certainly intensify the problem. I've talked to NTCC people and exNTCC people who I could tell had some serious psychological issues. Men and women.
Mess around with the NTCC and you won't even recognize that your brain is messed up. Their whole logical thought pattern gets warped out of proportion. You think I'm exaggerating or kidding? I've got off the phone with some people both current and exNTCC, and all I could say is, "WOW, boy is this person messed up in the head", and I didnt' mean it as derogatory either. I knew the NTCC had messed them up.
Having said that I'm not suggesting that involvement with the NTCC directly and exclusively resulted in this dude murdering someone. Lets make that perfectly clear. I do however have no reservations about saying that his involvement with the NTCC directly resulted in his psychological makeup becoming unstable and irrational. The NTCC will mess you up, make no mistake. You don't even think normally or rationally any longer after you've been involved with the NTCC for some time. People who've been involved with the NTCC begin to make ridiculous decisions that make no sense what so ever and they get to a place where they won't even listen to or consider logic. They get brainwashed plain and simple. Quiting jobs, breaking up marriages, looking at everyone like they are beneath you, judging everyone you meet, being nasty toward people for no reason, thinking its normal to live far below the poverty level, driving around in old unreliable broke down cars, completely loosing interest in loved ones, Killing cats and dogs at the direct request of RWD and abandoning your children IS NOT NORMAL. It's sick, demented thinking that has no place in Christianity or any other religion.
Friends the NTCC will mess you up and you won't even know it. Keep messing around with that crooked crew if you want to but I'm not the one.
Chief
Chief said...
ReplyDeletePeople who've been involved with the NTCC begin to make ridiculous decisions that make no sense what so ever and they get to a place where they won't even listen to or consider logic.
LTravis said...
That's the truth,the whole truth and nothing but the truth period.
Chief said:
ReplyDelete"I hope NTCC leaders don't go to visit him. They'll screw him up more than he already is if that is possible. For anyone who thinks I'm exaggerating or kidding I'm not one bit. Let a church who actually cares go to visit him."
DnA said:
All the sudden the ntcc is going to get involved in prison ministry? In times past Rwd has said that prison ministry is not profitable. I'm sure that their prison ministry policy might change now that a former cult member has the ability to implicate the ntcc leadership in contributing to the mental condition that caused him to do this terrible deed. It wouldn't surprise me if they visited him every day trying to convince the dude to get saved so he could forgive them and not hold anything against them.
I guarantee you that this is one headache that the ntcc wishes that it didn't have to deal with. If the media catches wind that this guy was a former long time cult member, and decides to do a story on the long term psychological effects that a destructive cult like the ntcc has on people like Kelly Merz, it would bring a new meaning to the term damage control. The ntcc is probably scrambling right now to decide how to survive this ordeal that has tragically landed in their lap.
I'm so glad that we are no longer a part of this cult and that God has seen fit to heal our minds from the lasting damage that so many people have had inflicted on them. When you allow God to open your eyes to common sense and reason, and to replace the fear and chaos that was created by the ntcc in your mind, you will see them for what they really are.
DnA
You are right Jeff. many of us have done ridiculous stuff in the "name of God"
ReplyDeleteWhy would families be on a strange city and sleep in their vehicle because they just got there and don't have a place to stay!
Why leave a perfectly and stable job because you need to do the the "will of God"?
No wonder people get all kinds of mental disorders.
I wonder if Mr. Mertz has considered any of this as part of his defense.
ReplyDeleteTo all that post here, I am grateful for your input.
ReplyDeleteI think that we've turned this into an extreme Gospel.
If we don't sacrifice our family, our welfare our health, soulwinning in extreme weather, no matter the cost, than we are transgressors because we've learned and taught that God is gonna demand those souls that we fail to reach!
No doubt there are some people that are weaker in their mind and can't control their rational thinking, but we must not excuse the church or the leaders for putting such burden on the sheep either.
Who shot a police officer?
ReplyDeleteDid the officer die?
When did this happen?
i remember davis talking about a guy who robbed a bank but was caught.
ReplyDeleteim sure he did it purely out of the motive of needing money so he could go out and start a church for the
new testament christian real estate program founded by davis and kekel
Bruce Smith doing a story on the connection between Merz and the ntcc. He is looking for information from people that knew the Merzes and have accurate info that they would be willing to share.
ReplyDeleteBruce can be contacted at:
BruceSmith@rainierconnect.com
We hope folks will put aside their fear and participate in this. It is very important for the ntcc to get public scrutiny on this issue. Up to this point, the ntcc has avoided much publicity, but this story is going to be unavoidable for them. Sharing details with Bruce Smith will help educate the public in Graham and surrounding areas of the dangers associated with attending the ntcs and could very possibly prevent another tragedy like this from happening in the future.
Some questions would be helpful to Bruce are:
1. Does anyone have any knowledge of the apartments that K. Merz lived in and rented out?
2. How was the relationship between Kelly and Cherylyn?
3. When, how or why did they divorce?
4. Does anyone have any knowledge of their military service?
5. How were they treated by the ntcc leadership?
6. Did their inter-racial marriage cause any problems for them in the ntcc?
The small details are probably more important than you think. What kind of person was he? Was he angry, quiet, kind or strange? Any thing noticed about his personality that can be attributed to the demands that the ntcc placed on him and his family would be helpful also. Also please include the time-frame of when you knew them.
DnA
Bruce Smith doing a story on the connection between Merz and the ntcc. He is looking for information from people that knew the Merzes and have accurate info that they would be willing to share.
ReplyDeleteget a life!
I'll tell you who needs to get a life. These NTCC leaders who aren't doing anything for mankind but psychologically messing people up.
ReplyDeleteChief
my wife said maybe something like this is needed (the merz ntcc connection) so davis, kekel, etc may wake up and humble themselves.
ReplyDeleteI haven't read all the comments yet, but did want to reply to the one just above this one.
ReplyDeleteI like how you think.
Unfortunately, ntcc did not repent when Moreno killed his pregnant wife, 5 year-old son, and himself.
If that did not wake them up, I doubt this recent tragedy will either.
Public exposure may help warn others from being trapped though.
Bruce Smith has done a second article on the Kelly Merz murder of Cori Lewis:
ReplyDeleteUpdate
Anon said "Unfortunately, ntcc did not repent when Moreno killed his pregnant wife, 5 year-old son, and himself.
ReplyDeleteIf that did not wake them up, I doubt this recent tragedy will either.
Do you think there's a connection between Moreno's crazy actions and Kinsen committing adultery and tring to cover it up? Humm Ntcc?
Your sin will find you out!
ReplyDeleteKinsen adultery? Phil or Chris?
ReplyDeleteJeff said,
ReplyDelete"WOW! So RWD had some sort of business involvement with Merz ex wife?"
How is it RWD endorsed someone who left the church? We need a new thread.
Anon said "Kinsen adultery? Phil or Chris?
ReplyDeletePhil Kinsen! It was going on while he was in Japan. He had left his wallet in the whole house and took Moreno with him to retrieve it. He didn't count on Moreno knowing what kind of place they were at. And now Phil's a great leader in the Borg. You see Davis can make a leader out of people that he has "dirt" on.
What a laughable bunch of retards you folks are
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said, "What a laughable bunch of retards you folks are
ReplyDeleteSeptember 18, 2011 4:55 PM"
Don and Ange say,
Who is this cowardly anonymous poster who is making fun of developmentally disabled individuals? It really shows how Christ-less the ntcc supporters are!
Wow! So phil kinson left his wallet in the whore house??
ReplyDeleteAnonymous was right, "Your sin WILL find YOU out!"
phil kinson going to the whore house sheds new light on his nickname, "Feel Good phil"
ReplyDeletewhat and when did this happen with moreno ? and why ?
ReplyDeletewhat is it that happened with phil ?
are the two related.
please explain.
thanks.
WOW! So RWD had some sort of business involvement with Merz ex wife? Was she still sending tithe to the church even after she left? Sounds like she wanted a tax break and tenants in return for the tithe she was paying? Can you spell quid pro quo? Boy is the NTCC corrupt.
ReplyDeleteChief
Here's a link explaining the
ReplyDeleteMoreno Tragedy
There is a comment explaining the possible link between phil kinson's alleged adultery and the Moreno murders-suicide.
so briefly looking into it,
ReplyDeletemaybe it is because moreno wanted to be a servicemans work pastor but couldn't because of davis rule of kids.
here's an exceprt from an article
Co-workers said Maria Moreno never talked about family problems, but mentioned her husband had bought a gun when she told them she was pregnant.
here's the article
http://www.texnews.com/1998/2003/texas/texas_Police_se925.html
So the NTCC sick pup leadership teaches that a women destroys her husbands ministry when she gets pregnant and look what happens. They drove that dude nuts so he kills his family. I'm telling you the NTCC leadership drives people nuts. How many more people have to die before someone puts a stop to all this psychological brainwashing.
ReplyDeletethat's why the police don't know the motive why moreno did it. but we all know the motive. maybe bruce smith can write up this one as well.
ReplyDeleteemail the police down there and explain about this cult and why moreno did it.
Anon said "that's why the police don't know the motive why moreno did it. but we all know the motive."
ReplyDeleteI'll guarantee you that Phil Kinsen knows why Rolland Moreno clocked out on his family. I don't see how that piece trash lives with himself.
how dare him point that crooked finger of his from behind the lectern and tell people that they need to get right with God. Stinkin' hypocrite!
The N.T.C.C. leaders and those they appoint to dominant positions are the same ones who teach the little guys that when you sin it effects more than you, and they can't even see and will never admit that their adulteries and other sins have effected the lives of many innocent lambs.
ReplyDeleteCommit adultery and you may get promoted, sick but true. There is even more than is printed here.
And it's been known by many what really happened to the Moreno family. If you are unfortunate enough to find out about a chosen one's sin, the campaign begins to push you out to keep the sin of the chosen one covered. It's happened again and again, but things can stay covered for only so long.
Some of the biggest devils wear suits and ties or have long hair and wear dresses, and are judging you because you don't look like them. Don't tell me to get a life while you're telling everyone how to live and committing and covering up bigger sins than the average Christian would ever dream of. Pharisees and hypocrites.
And anybody who leaves are devils, but you think you are sovereign and are the biggest sinners of all. I'm not a sinner because I left. I'm just not hoodwinked anymore. The blood of innocents is on their hands period.
I made the rules and I can change them. So what if there was a bylaw that if you are in the ministry and commit adultery, I'll expose your sin and pull your minister's license. So what if I change that and decide cover for them. God forgives so why can't we? What's a bylaw anyway?
ReplyDeleteMCK says that the sports rules was "not Bible based to begin with." I would just add that many of NTCC's rules are not Bible based . . . unless of course you take verses from the Bible out of context and run with them. The problem with that methodology is that anyone can snatch a verse from a portion of the Bible and use it to manipulate others (Jim Jones, Father Divine, polygamists, etc.). Those exra-biblical rules were put in place by NTCC solely for control and domination purposes. The bottom line is that NTCC needs to get rid of the Pharisee theology, pulpit bullying, and sanctimonious disposition with respect to other churches in the body of Christ.
ReplyDeleteStephen G.
"What's a bylaw anyway"?
ReplyDeletebylaw: some can get by certain laws why others cannot.
Bylaw: some can get by the law!
ReplyDeleteLOL ROTFL LMDO
Laughing out loud
rolling on the floor laughing
laughing my dentures out
Sig-o-mo-sigh, let those bylaws pass me on by, while I laugh at fools who try to keep those stupid controlling rules
Anonymous wrote...
ReplyDeleteAnd it's been known by many what really happened to the Moreno family. If you are unfortunate enough to find out about a chosen one's sin, the campaign begins to push you out to keep the sin of the chosen one covered.
Chief said...
Some people here have touched on it briefly but what really did happen? Who was the chosen one? Post anonymously like you've been. I have no means of knowing the identify of people who post anonymously unless they really give it away with an obvious writing style that I've only seen used by someone who previously didn't post anonymously.
If you know more we are interested. That is what this blog is all about and I don't make any apologies for it. We expose these NTCC hypocrites for what they are. Double standard crooks.
Chief
The pastor mentioned before brought Roland to a house of ill repute to retrieve his wallet. Did he think Roland didn't know what the place was? People know where those places are in any town. Was the pastor in a state of panic and only thinking of his wallet? God only knows why. I sure don't, but after Roland reported this man it was the beginning of the end for Roland but not the adulterer. He carried it on his heart, saw the pastor get away with it and then him go on to get a position.
ReplyDeleteTo say the Morenos were pushed out could be strong words because everyone gets it in ntcc. At a conference in MO they were made fun of from the pulpit because they stopped to look at some horses or because she liked horses. They should have had their minds on God instead and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
It might be a stretch to say ntcc caused Roland and his family deaths, but wouldn't the things he saw as a young Christian influence his thought processes throughout the rest of his life? So was it okay for a spiritual leader to commit adultery? What is all this church stuff about any way? Ntcc proclaims itself as such a holy example of Christian living, while straining at gnats and swallowing camels.
to anon: I think I understand now what you were saying.
ReplyDeleteI don't know how it was that kinson forgets his wallet in that whore house.
I wonder what explanation he gave to moreno, nevertheless, apparently kinson thought that moreno was trustworthy enough to take him and retrieve the wallet.
But now there are questions that come to mind like, why didn't kinson took his wife?
I remember rwd, saying that a minister must go everywhere with his wife, so to avoid any confusion or the appareance of evil.
Only moreno knows all those answers but he is gone.
The only person that knows what was going through the mind of moreno is jake espinosa but he is very faithful to the org. and somebody said that he (espinosa) has been tapped to preach in very important events happening in the ntcc, for whatever reason.
So much for the saying: it seemed good to the Holy Ghost.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI sure don't, but after Roland reported Kinson, it was the beginning of the end for Roland but not for Kinson the adulterer. He carried it on his heart, saw Kinson get away with it and then him go on to get a position.
Chief said...
That is a pretty serious allegation. Sounds like you know what you are talking about.
Chief
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteIt might be a stretch to say ntcc caused Roland and his family deaths, but wouldn't the things he saw as a young Christian influence his thought processes throughout the rest of his life?
Cha Chief said...
You better believe it Bro. That is a sad story. These NTCC leaders are such crooks it's unbelievable.
Chief
Boy these guys have so much dirt it's unbelievable. It's amazing how much info comes out on these blogs. I try not to be too judgmental of current NTCCers but I'm going to change my tune for a minute and tell you this. If I had this information while I was in the NTCC, the NTCC leadership would really be getting a piece of my mind. I left the NTCC for a whole lot less then what I'm reading on this blog lately.
ReplyDeleteThese NTCC guys can't tell me anything anymore. None of them. The whole crew is crooked and fake. I know for a fact they read this blog, many of them, and the word must get around. They aren't sincere about Christ. It's all about making a buck now. Why else would you stay with the NTCC knowing all this stuff? Land deals, whore houses, divorces, child abuse, business deals with exNTCC women. You name it the NTCC leadership is involved with it. You call that a holiness church? I call that a "den of thieves".
Chief
hypocrites in high places! want to point fingers at those who have fled the org? enjoy laughing at their so-called folly?you use pulpits to spread rumors and lies. at least on this blog you can defend yourself. lying bunch of dogs!why praise a god you do not even believe in? dogs!
ReplyDeleteChief said, I left the NTCC for a whole lot less then what I'm reading on this blog lately.
ReplyDeleteAint that the truth. Even giving that man the benefit of the doubt that what is written here is lies, and I don't believe it's a lie, most people if they went on what they experienced personally and followed their conscience would have enough of a legitimate reason to leave that group without any additional information about its inner workings. But they're too scared. You can only treat people like they do for so long and people start to wise up that maybe a lot of them are not really like Jesus after all.
MDR here. After reading the latest posts, I decided it was time to chime in. First let me say that I never wanted to go public with this, but evidently it's already out there and I didn't realize how many others know about it too.
ReplyDeleteAfter I became Roland's pastor, he told me he needed to talk to me because something was heavy on his heart. Let me just say that what you've read here is almost exactly what he shared with me.
I carried this for years and finally took it to RWD in 2005, and told him I had a problem with his leadership. I pointed to the adulterer and told RWD I couldn't understand how that he exalted that man to an overseer position.
RWD had previously gotten up in conferences and made it abundantly clear if you committed adultery as a minister in his organization, that you would have your license taken from you, he would expose your sin to your wife, and you would never be a leader in his organization.
It bothered me because it was clear to me at that point that RWD would change the rules to fit his own agenda. After I approached RWD about this, his treatment toward me definitely changed.
NTCC resembles the church of Laodicea in every respect. It is filled with adulterers, adulteresses, and money-hungry thieves.
I can say this one thing: Thank God we are free and we rejoice in this fact every day, that we can serve God under His wonderful grace and not under the bondage of their manmade laws.
mdr
LOL LOL LOL
ReplyDeleteThis is what the NTCC leaders are as well as the other NTCC hypocrites.... (members who ignore these facts)
The True Face of the NTCC
those of you who think God won't have you if you leave NTCC, that's only a kekel davis, devil lie.
ReplyDeleteThe Blood says you can.
Song
Satan tells you it's hopeless, that you can't go back home again but the Father is waiting with arms open wide and the Blood says you can.
Wow! So there it is. mdr willing to publicly admit that Moreno spoke of phil kinson retrieving his wallet from the whore house! Wonder if debbie kinson knows about it? I really believe Moreno was telling the truth and ol' feel-good phil was purchasing services. How sad that Moreno couldn't process the fact that ntcc is run by hypocrites who lie, so who cares what they say.
ReplyDeleteWe all want acceptance and approval. But now we know it is God's approval that matters; not the approval of some hypocrite.
I'm not so certain that Phil was retrieving his wallet. He may have said he was going to retrieve his wallet after he'd already been seen leaving the whore house. I believe this was initially his excuse for being there in the first place.
ReplyDeleteAfter what mdr shared, I started thinking about what debbie kinson said one time, that she would never marry a preacher if she had the chance to get married again.
ReplyDeleteNow we know why she said this.
It's obvious that the espinosas know more than they let on, since moreno committed suicide while attending jake's church.
It's kind of eerie to think that jake's own younger brother would die almost in the same way years later.
Anonymous Said:
ReplyDelete"It's kind of eerie to think that jake's own younger brother would die almost in the same way years later."
DnA said:
Can you or someone who knows the details elaborate on that a little more?
I heard the same story from somebody close to the espinosas.
ReplyDeleteApparently their younger brother suffered from some type of mental illness and had a shoot out with the washington police.
He tried to kill his girlfriend and baby, but she was able to get away and call the police. I'm not sure if he killed himself or the police killed him.
Maybe you can find more factual info in the archives of the news there in puyallup because I wasn't around when that happened. I think the year was 07 or 08.
This is some hard reading.
ReplyDeleteGo to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.
Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten.
Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.
Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.
Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.
Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.
The ntcc leaders have much to consider. Jesus will have the last word.
It's monkey see, monkey do in the ntcc. The actions of Phil Kinson were learned behavior. Feel good Phil was no doubt privy to many details of his master's adulterous affairs and he knew before he even committed adultery that he would get away with it. Rwd did numerous times. This is the way it works in the ntcc. Adultery is overlooked and sins like disrespect and questioning authority are offenses that can get you expelled from the ntcc.
ReplyDeleteIf you get caught by a church member frequenting a cat house in Japan, you climb a couple more rungs up the ntcc ladder and get promoted. After all, you double bagged it so it really wasn't adultery. When your wife catches wind of this, Phil, you can just tell her to shut up and get back in the kitchen.
The ntcc has no business telling people how to live their lives and they are the last people on planet earth that I would want to entrust with my spiritual well being. They have taken it upon themselves to involve themselves with every aspect of a persons life. They tell you what to wear, what to do with your money, who you can talk to, who can ride in your car, who can visit your house and they will judge you if you let them. The unqualified busy body ntcc leaders are the most untrustworthy bunch of people I have ever met. Why I listened to them for 13 years is beyond me.
If you were looking for financial advise would you go to Bernie Madoff's jail cell? Contrary to what the ntcc has taught you, there are many churches and Pastors outside of the ntcc that are far more qualified and better equipped to point you in the direction of heaven than the ntcc is. I would rather ask a Walmart greeter for spiritual advise than to ask an ntcc board member. At least a Walmart greeter is taught to be pleasant.
If you want to succeed in the ntcc follow the examples of Davis, Kekel and Kinson. Do as they do, not as they say. Be a monkey for the Lord and imitate the actions of your leaders. Climb all over others to get to the place you want to be. Don't show mercy, its a sign of weakness. Seek wealth and preach against everyone that questions you. Cover it all up with white shirts and wingtips, and keep the women in their place. All that have ever succeeded in the ntcc have been just like monkeys. When Rwd scratches his butt, they scratch theirs. The ntcc is a cesspool of hypocrisy.
DnA
If you want to stop being an ntcc hypocrite and become a Christian, it's very simple. Just ask, "What would Jesus do?" Read the books of the bible that have the red letters. Take a look at what the ntcc wants you to do and see if Jesus taught those things. Did Jesus ever teach you to practice living double standards. Did Jesus ever tell the disciples that children hinder the work of God? Did he ever once mention who they could date or manipulate their relationships? Did he ever tell them that you can't build a church with homeless people? Did he tell them that all Christians pay tithe and give in offerings? Did Jesus tell them they couldn't have a dog or a cat? You could go on and on until the cows come home. Did Jesus ever tell people that having facial hair was wrong, did He say that if you wear jewelry or make up that you will go to hell, did he even care about the outward appearance of a man or Woman?
ReplyDeleteIf you are searching for truth and honesty, don't look to the ntcc. If you want to be a Christian, don't go to the bottom of the slop bucket where the ntcc will reach in and grab you a "good biscuit". Go find a church that is actively involved in loving others and caring about their fellow human beings. Find a church where grace and mercy are actually shown to all and people are not looked down upon and mocked because they can not meet the requirements of the modern day Pharisees.
DnA
L. Travis said "...The ntcc leaders have much to consider. Jesus will have the last word."
ReplyDeleteLarry, you are right on the money with James chapter 5. I was driving down the road yesterday and the Lord laid that portion of Scripture on my heart. How many people have they used in building their empire? They squeeze the life blood out young men and women and then cast them to side of the road when they are finished with them, as if they are some kind of dirty dish rag. They live in wantonness while others around them suffer.
micheal kekel has the gall to say that we left because of money and that we wanted a position. What a weasel!
Let me tell you, micheal -- and everybody else for that matter -- we left for one reason and one reason only, and that was because of the abuses/corruption perpetrated by you and your father-in-law dub-face. The only reason I stayed around as long as I did is because I was loyal and faithful to you and your stupid org. But I came to the conclusion that I was loyal to a fault. Good-bye, you corrupt little weasel.
DNA,
ReplyDeletethat's a good title for the book / ebook about ntcc
"White Shirts and WingTips"
LOL
DnA said "When your wife catches wind of this, Phil, you can just tell her to shut up and get back in the kitchen."
ReplyDeleteI mean after all, according to Davis's teaching, it's got to be the woman's fault anyway when a man commits adultery. NOT!
That's what a faithful Christian woman got from her preacher husband. What a horrible shame he is.
I have been on here less and less. NOT because I don't believe in helping those still stuck in the cult. But my PTSD has become so obvious to me. That I am headed to the VA to get help. I have tried to brush it off. And Marine up and try and push past the mental trauma! But it is not happening. Between the cult and being raped while in the Marines. It has messed my mind up for good! I am going to reach out and get help!
ReplyDeleteI am going to take a break from posting at all on the blogs. It just brings up alot!Rw davis once said publically I was using my rape as a crutch not to satisfy my man! I can not get the brainwashing out of my head on how rw see's women. Thought my MAN never treated me that way. But you had to keep hearing it day in and day out. How he wanted us to be inferior to men.
So for those that say why don't you just move on and not blog or just get over it. Your no longer in ntcc. Why does it matter to you. Well here you go,I got the last effects from the FALSE teachings that we all got fed to us. The mental mind games that rw davis and Mike K. put us through on a daily basis. Mike mocked me when I told him via e-mail that I got PTSD from ntcc. Said only those that have been through combat get PTSD. Guess what Mike,your WRONG!!
I will be off working on myself. I have never focused on myself and just me! Something new! It is affecting my life,my kids and hubbys life! I want to get back to MYSELF. or as close to that as possible!
Y'all that stay on here. And keep the good fight exposing this cult. They cannot get away with there so called changes. It is ALL just for looks. People cannot walk through there doors and get stuck with there fake love and God is good campaign. There a bunch of FALSE teachers. Even if you live a good life,your following FALSE teachers!! Peace out!!lol
April Michalik
NOT a AGENT of FB(devil)
April quoted little-mike kekel as saying "Mike mocked me when I told him via e-mail that I got PTSD from ntcc. Said only those that have been through combat get PTSD. Guess what Mike,your WRONG!!"
ReplyDeleteApril, little-mike is wrong. You have a suffered a PTSD being in ntcc. Because they put you and everybody else through a "mental combat"
I wish you the best in your recovery process, and you will recover.
mdr
The ntcc is a creeped out bunch of weirded out sickos. April, you have our respect and we absolutely think you are doing the right thing. There is no reason why you or anyone should have to go through what you did in a church. You have been honest and Rwd was a complete abusive jerk for publicly blasting you the way he did.
ReplyDeleteHe has made a living off of treating people like garbage and everyday he gets shorter of breath and one day closer to death. Take as much time as you need, you are a good friend and you know how to get a hold of us if you need to. You got more courage than anyone I ever knew in the ntcc. I learned shortly after leaving the ntcc that you have to take care of yourself, or you are no good to anyone else.
DnA
RWD takes new converts back to Mt Sinai and places them under the law, that my friends is why sin abounds in the ntcc and it is also why the ntcc is falling apart you are not winning your just miserable. God will lead you back to Mt. Zion where you can be free in His Grace, but you have to be willing. I tell you the truth Grace sets us free from sin. RWD wants to be your master and tell you how to live under (his) law. I do not harbor unforgiveness against anyone including RWD because I have been forgiven, with that said I pray and hope that everyone in this abusive organization of legalism would return to Mt.Zion and live in Christ’s finished work. I hope you always remember this (For by Grace are you saved). God is waiting for your return. I would also like to say I have been blessed to find a new friend and brother in the Lord his name is Matthew Reed. The reason I bring this up is God does restore and repair that which was stolen by the ntcc, even though I never knew the Reeds before, God has placed them in my life and what a blessing they are. There are many awesome believers in the ntcc and God wants to set you free from the organization, if you choose to stay it can only lead to misery and failure because they are fallen from grace. I’m not a gifted writer like most but I know how to pray and ask God for help to convey His love for you, the best thing you can do for yourself and family is just leave.
ReplyDelete"Legalism takes the individual back to Mt Sinai, where the law was given. Every man or woman will be judged based on one of two bases. Either they will be judged by the law or by grace; by their works or by Christ’s work; by the provisions of Sinai or by the provisions of Mt. Zion."
LTravis
Ltravis,do you realize you started your message with the zion thing and ended it with zion thing. Sorry,flashback to rw davis teaching how to preach a sermon. As if he KNOWS how to preach!!
ReplyDeleteChief, that guy that came to the graham church with a sword, still is attending the church, although he seems very sedated because he is taking some kind of medicine.
ReplyDeleteHis wife attends too.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteLtravis,do you realize you started your message with the zion thing and ended it with zion thing. Sorry,flashback to rw davis teaching how to preach a sermon. As if he KNOWS how to preach!!
Anonymous,
I'm sorry that it reminded you of RWD.
I just wanted to share what God has revealed to me about the destructive ways of this organization. The ntcc has cloaked itself with religion and it is a pride based group. They are just like the Pharisees; they are greedy, lovers of money more than lovers of God. They are clever little devils, but they’re not hiding anything from God.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteChief, that guy that came to the graham church with a sword, still is attending the church, although he seems very sedated because he is taking some kind of medicine.
His wife attends too.
Chief said...
You see, there is what you got. And I can't tell you how many times I've heard stuff like, "Let God heal you". So this guy is on meds galore and who knows what is going to happen next. They are just soaking this dude for his tithes I suspect. Crazy. Next thing you know the dude will wind up in Seminary. If you think that is far fetched it's not.
I've personally known a few dudes who went to their seminary who had some real mental issues. Whatever. The only reason that guy is even still with the NTCC is because they want to act like they are taking the high ground and tithes. Come on, the dude walked in there with a sword for crying out loud. I'm just being real. Would you want your kids around a dude like that? I wouldn't mind it as long as I had a gun just in case he pulled out a sword. Can I get an Amen?
Chief
Amen on the gun.
ReplyDelete"Next thing you know the dude will wind up in Seminary."
ReplyDeleteHe's been there and done that, Chief and was in the ministry for a period of time already.
Vic said...
ReplyDeleteHe was already in the ministry.
Chief said...
I rest my case. I did not know that. Did the NTCC make him loose it or was he already that way? I remember some of the stuff he would write. He was definitely out there with all that satanic stuff. I'm not just saying this to sound more like J. Edgar Hoover but it really does seem to me that the NTCC drives a significant number of people crazy. Some of these people are out there before they ever even go to the seminary, but like I've said before, why in the world would you make them ministers? It doesn't make good sense.
If the ministry is so important, why doesn't the NTCC treat it as such? Would you take someone with down syndrome and try to make them an Air Force Pilot? You'd have people crashing into buildings and that is what you've got in the NTCC. Crash and burn.
Chief
"I rest my case. I did not know that. Did the NTCC make him loose it or was he already that way?"
ReplyDeleteHe was a student in some BS classes I taught back in the early nineties. Of course, my personal knowledge of him was limited by the strict ministerial separation policy--fraternization with students was scowled upon. But he was pretty normal outwardly, anyway. I heard he had some kind of meltdown when he was ministering over in Korea, but I don't know what comprised that. NTCC had him committed to Western State, after he severely denounced them, and apparently once back on his meds has been persuaded to return to the fold (those must be some powerful chemicals!).
He might have been disturbed, but not everything he said was wrong. He did have pretty good insight into the fact that the org is given over to corruption and decadence. It seemed like he was under the delusion that revival might spring up and judgment be averted. But there are no signs of any revival yet, and the slow wheels of justice are still grinding on. The ark will be captured bye and bye.
If these rules were only for the students. I'll always wonder why Rev. Guyer*not sure if I spelled this right* took it upon himself to tell my parents that we shouldnt play school sports. I also wonder that if these rules were for the students then why did every pastor that came through the church in Leesville|Ft Polk take it upon themselves to shout them from the pulpit. But hey maybe my lack of understanding is just the effect of still being young. Maybe I'll become wise to these facts in my later years.:)
ReplyDeleteThe stupid rules overflowed onto everyone. RW would get up and holler about how if he had to live it to get to heaven, so did everyone else. We were scolded for not bringing people to conferences because we were afraid they would be scorched by the kind of preaching we were afraid to deliver ourselves. Preachers were so afraid of being branded "compromisers," that they not only didn't pull any punches, but tried their hardest to imitate RW's fire breathing, field plowing methodology.
ReplyDeleteWe were all under RW's big fat thumb.
The pieces of the puzzle now seem to fit, I always wondered why I always got the cold shoulder from the wives of preachers, their husbands where usually a bit friendlier but never inappropriately so. Now I know. The NTCC does not preach love for your brothers and sisters in the lord. As members we are second class, if your not called to preach or your not married to a preacher you are not saved, how sad this mentality is. Talk about sewing seeds of discord. This is what the seminary does to these poor individuals that enter bible college, I feel sorry for them now. Am I wrong?, is this what they teach in seminary?. No wonder I never could fit in at NTCC, I truly thought, is it me? Now I know. I feel sorry for these young and older brainwashed individuals, they need to read the bible again.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteif your not called to preach
Jeff said...
Yeah, by their pastor or RWD or because they took interest in reading the Bible five times. "Called to preach"? How about called to "run people off". Called to "verbally abuse your congregation". Called to "tell fat jokes about overweight women" who shouldn't even be that way but they are because of the NTCC false doctrine, keep women as slaves system. Called to "make money on real estate". Called to "suck up to RWD". Called to "only advance in the NTCC chain of command if you are a family member of Davis, Defrancesco, Johnson, Ashmore or you are the one Black Man that Davis decides to make a token because the last one left"!!!!!
Those are the callings I see in the NTCC.
Chief
Let me tell you what God is calling you to do. LEAVE THE NTCC so you can really serve him. God is calling you to LEAVE the double standards. God is calling you to THINK FOR YOURSELVES and do what is right and stop doing what is wrong just because that is what you were taught by the NTCC. God is calling you to stop being a man pleaser and be a God pleaser. God is calling you to stop abusing your wives and stop treating them like your personal slave. God is calling you to provide for YOUR family, not the Kekels.
ReplyDeleteChief
I am already out, I could not go back knowing what I know now, I just feel like I was blind, blind to what was going on, but I really think members are blind to what is going on with the preachers and the seminary . They just go to church, bible study and pay their tithe and then leave, they do not know of all the other goings on and that my friends is sad. Luckily this blog is opening up some eyes to the truth. Again, I am done with the NTCC, I am not done with God, far from it.
ReplyDeleteI want to be guiltless on judgement day. Church made me do it will not suffice. Sow into corruption you will reap also.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI am done with the NTCC
Chief said...
That is good news. We're winning!
Chief
Leave NTCC? Why? So you can over ride the conviction of the Holy Ghost....
ReplyDeleteAnon said "Why? So you can over ride the conviction of the Holy Ghost...."
ReplyDeleteNo! So we can over ride the cruel treatment of your Pharaoh! Now go make some bricks!
mdr
So you can override the guilt trips which have nothing to do with the Lord.
ReplyDeleteChief
Anonymous said:
ReplyDelete"Leave NTCC? Why? So you can over ride the conviction of the Holy Ghost...."
DnA said:
This is what the ntcc teaches and this is what makes the ntcc a cult. If you leave the ntcc cult it is equal to over riding the the conviction of the Holy Ghost. People that leave the ntcc are no longer welcome; nor are they associated with by active members. If you chose to attend another church you are no longer welcome in their little cult. If you disagree with the ntcc leadership you are over riding the conviction of the Holy Ghost.
This fallacy is a very ignorant and cruel way to get rid of those who offend. Would you get rid of a brother or sister from your family because they disagreed with you or because they wanted to have their own individuality? Would your disown your own child and kick them out of your own house and tell them never to come back again? Would you tell all of your child's friends and and other family members to "leave him alone?" Would you tell your child, "If you walk out that door, you are not welcome in this house again"?
Guess what. God is not going to do this to his own children. The Holy Ghost is not going to be over ridden because someone does not want to partake of this madness. The ntcc is about as twisted as you can get. I would say that most people in the ntcc are over riding the conviction of the Holy Ghost when they join themselves with people that hate their neighbors and reject the ones that God loves.
DnA
"Leave NTCC? Why? So you can over ride the conviction of the Holy Ghost...."
ReplyDeleteYour discernment may be faulty concerning the origin of these impressions.
Anonymous MDR said...
ReplyDeleteAnon said "Why? So you can over ride the conviction of the Holy Ghost...."
No! So we can over ride the cruel treatment of your Pharaoh! Now go make some bricks!
mdr
Matt I loved your comment! It was a nice ending to my day LOL!!!
I was cleaning my 9mil last night and when I assembled it I put the spring in upside down and couldn't disassemble it to fix it. I thought about checking the internet to see if anyone else had made that same mistake, but then I thought no one else would make that mistake. I spent another hour trying to fix the problem. I went to my wife to see if she had a suggestion. She said look it up on the internet. I messed with it another 10 minutes and then decided to look it up and you guessed it several other people had made the same mistake. They explained how to fix it and it took about 15 seconds and I was back in business.
ReplyDeleteSome may ask, why are you sharing this? The reason is because if no one would have taken their time to explain their mistake and how to fix it then I would have thought all was lost and their was no hope of fixing it, or I would have had to take it to a gunsmith and had it fixed. Their willingness to share what they had learned saved me time and money.
I was so thankful that I wanted to make sure that I registered for that website and thank them personally.
Thanks to all who care enough to warn others.
Bro. Bellamy
Living Free said "Matt I loved your comment! It was a nice ending to my day LOL!!!"
ReplyDeleteThanks! My wife lost it when she read it too.
There are lot of similarities the way Pharaoh treated the Jews and the way dub-face treats his preachers and their wives.
Have a good one!
mdr
off topic:
ReplyDeleteif you liked the movie fireproof, another christian movie by the same people comes out friday...
it's called courageous
Courageous Trailer
There is another that comes out in limited areas during october, you'd have to check the main website for the locations.
It's based on the true story of ex biker / druggie becoming a Christian, and desiring the help the children in Sudan who are kidnapped and forced in the army or are killed.
Machine gun preacher trailer
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteif you liked the movie fireproof, another christian movie by the same people comes out friday...
Chief said...
You sinner. Didn't you know it's a sin to watch movies unless you are Grant Kekel and you watch them on your computer? That is not a sin. DVD drives in computers connected to monitors are different than DVD players connected to TV's. One is a sin, the other is not. NTCC 101. You need to get saved.
Thou shalt not writest about movies on this blog as thou shalt be in danger of hell fire. Thou shalt only winnest souls for the NTCC real-estate machine so the Kekels can buy and sell houses. Thou shalt by no means buy and sell houses as this God given right hast been reserved for Bishop Kekel and his master Tanya.
Thou shalt be poor, (as there will always be poor with you) and you shalt give thine money to the NTCC so the Kekels cans't be rich. This way Bishop Kekel canst by DVDs for his heir Grant so that he canst livest in purity but thou shalt not post movie info on this blog for thou hast sinned and transgressed against the NTCC rules and thou shalt surely die in thine iniquities.
Cardinal Chief
Chekc your spam folder Jeff.
ReplyDeleteI don't know what the deal is. There were no messages in the spam folder.
ReplyDeleteThanks Cardinal Chief for starting off my day with a good laugh. Thou didst make my day!! Thou hast caused my stomach to knot up from laughing so hard. The ntcc needs to read this so they can discover their folly.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous, thanks for those trailers, we seen the Courages one already but are very interested in the Machine Gun Preacher movie. We might even see if we can get a special exception to policy and ask Chief Cardinal's permission to go see this movie in a theater. Is it Okay, Chief Cardinal if I take my wife out on a date to see a Christian movie in a movie theater? I know there will probably be sinners there and there might be a few inappropriate scenes but we promise to put on our spiritual blinders so that we are not corrupted by the world. Please can we go?
DnA wrote...
ReplyDeleteThanks Cardinal Chief for starting off my day with a good laugh.
Chief...
I got a kick out of it also. Even after I wrote it. The sad part is, if you pay attention to it carefully, it's true. That is essentially what the NTCC taught. I remember them trying to justify watching DVDs on a computer while maintaining it was a sin to watch a movie in a VCR connected to a TV. They said something crazy like the reason it was wrong to have a "TV" because it could be hooked up to a cable outlet but a computer couldn't. What a bunch of double standard hypocrites. I watched the ball game on my computer last night (ESPN) because I couldn't pick up the game on my TV.
The NTCC is full of it. They've always made the rules to suit their fancy.
Chief
An interesting thought occurred to me after reading all about P. Kinson. Remember in Genesis when we went over the life of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? Lo and behold, along with the good, the sons showed the same failures and sins of their father's. Not that any of those I mentioned were involved with adultery, but they did their share of deceitfulness in order to sustain their life and calling. I am afraid that there is only more of the same ahead for unrepentant NTCC leaders. The sowing and reaping part of the Bible is a Spiritual Law and as powerful as the physical law of gravity.
ReplyDelete"They said something crazy like the reason it was wrong to have a "TV" because it could be hooked up to a cable outlet but a computer couldn't."
ReplyDeleteYou can get adapters to hook cable up to a PC. You can also surf porn on the internet with no cable tv at all, so their reasoning is bizarre.
Forgive me Cardinal for i have sinned.
ReplyDeleteI should have realized that posting a movie trailer about a preacher taking up arms against an enemy that destroys his orphange which keeps kids safe is a sin.
He must be disgruntled and bitter and not right with God. If he were right with God, he would just let those armies destroy his orphanage and continue to kill and steal those kids.
Cardinal, in the same fashion of the above mentioned person, you are disgruntled and not right with God as well because you are exposing and shining the light on the hypocrisies of NTCC. You should let them continue to harm people and take their money for their personal use and real estate business.
Cardinal, I just realized Jesus must not be right with God either, because he called people hypocrites and pointed out their false behaviors as well.
When I go see those movies, i'll try not to waste my money on the popcorn or drink, so I can put it into the NTCC offerings and tithe so they can help one of the missonaries out on the field....
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteForgive me Cardinal for i have sinned.
Chief said...
You are absolved my son. Hmmmmmmmm, Hmmmmmmmm. You still have to do penance. You must go soul winning till your feet bleed. At least 100 doors on Saturday. You must write out your soul winning report by hand twice immediately after door knocking. If you won't do that you are rebellious and you need to get saved. If you have a problem with my program, you have a problem with Cardinal Chief, and if you have a problem with Cardinal Chief, you have a problem with GAWD.
I got that from RWD.
Cardinal Chief
Once again today, I came into a good chunk of extra money. It was about $1500 this time, totally unexpected. Money just keeps rolling in. I went out to buy my wife something nice today and guess what she said? "Just keep the money, I can think of better ways to spend $200". Imagine that? Since we left the NTCC, doors have been opening. I mean it doesn't even make any sense. I've never seen anything like it. Life ain't all about MONEY but you better believe having it makes life a whole lot easier. I don't use people, I'm not greedy. Other people don't just give me handouts. Stuff happens like I'll get bonus money from my job that I didn't even expect. I'll get a substantial pay raise or something. It just keeps happening over and over and over again with me. Opportunities are just falling in my lap and I'm not exaggerating. And on top of that, I'm not giving a plug nickel to the NTCC and I speak against the NTCC daily. It seams like the more I speak against the NTCC, the more things work out for me.
ReplyDeleteI'm convinced that if you leave the NTCC, your life will get better. I never had it this good while I was in the NTCC. My son got selected as student of the week for his grade today and I was so proud of him and he was proud of himself and he couldn't wait to tell me. Also, his childhood isn't being ruined by spending every waking moment in church and missing sleep because we get home late in the evening on Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday. Where in the Bible does it say that is a qualification for salvation?
Forsake not the assembling? So if I start a church and hold seven services a week that means you are sinning if you don't make ever last one? The Bible says, "By grace are you saved by faith". It doesn't say, "By the number of church services you attend are you saved by works". The NTCC is running you into the dirt while my family is prospering daily. What I do think is that you people in the NTCC are being cursed as a result of your own stupidity. You want to keep giving your money to the Kekels, then just keep on struggling. That is exactly what you are doing when you give your money to the NTCC.
You know when the last time was that my family had this much money? Since before we started attending the NTCC. Leave the NTCC and let the blessings begin. I usually like to buy things for myself but this time I can't think of anything I want to buy? Life sure is good not being with the NTCC. I bought my son some professional diving fins and diving boots, a wet suit and an underwater camera to take pictures of him diving. The little dude is like a fish. I might take him to the scuba center to do some diving tomorrow.
Grant Kekel got to do all kinds of stuff like that, why shouldn't my son? Mike Kekel is the CEO of the NTCC. Why should your kids have any less than Grant Kekel? Has Mike Kekel brainwashed you into believing that his family is better than yours and your kids don't deserve the same things his kid got when he was growing up? Oh, you don't have the money? Why? I do. God can bless me and I'm out of the NTCC but he can't bless you and you are in the NTCC? Something is wrong with that picture. Maybe God has blessed you but out of stupidity, you keep giving your money to the NTCC and as a result the main kid who got blessed was Grant Kekel.
My little boy and I were doing some snorkeling at St. Thomas, U.S. Virgin Islands and we swam right over the top of a Barracuda. Well the Barracuda was a cool dude and he was just kind of curious about us. Well my little boy thought it was a shark and he headed for the shore faster than lightning. Well once I told him it wasn't a shark he wasn't quite so frightened. Point being, these are times I'll always remember spending with my wonderful loving little boy. Mike Kekel didn't steal his boy's childhood and I'm not stealing my boy's either. Think about it parents.
Chief
Chief said
ReplyDelete"Well my little boy thought it was a shark and he headed for the shore faster than lightning. "
LOLLOlOLoL!! Smart little guy!
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteLOLLOlOLoL!! Smart little guy!
Chief said...
Thanks for the compliment. He is a smart little guy. Thanks again. The little dude had lots of fun, (at least once he knew it wasn't a shark). We went back out and swam with the Barracuda for about 2 or 3 minutes after that. That fish was a real cool character. It just swam around nice and easy. It never made any sharp movements even when I tried to touch it. It would just ease off real slowly keeping about 1 foot between me and him. We road paddle boats, a jet ski and a Kayak. My little boy loved riding the jet ski. I love showing my little boy a good time.
And by the way for all the critics. If Mike Kekel's son wasn't lascivious wearing a tight football uniform, neither was my son while wearing a wet suit. If Mike Kekel's son wasn't lascivious wearing basketball shorts neither was my son wearing long knee length swim trunks. I just figured I'd throw that out there. I know how NTCC people think or at least how they used to think. I don't know how they think now that Kekel has dismissed the rules saying they weren't biblical in the first place. People should be enjoying life a little more. I know I'm enjoying it a lot more now that I'm not with the NTCC. My kids certainly are. Thank God!!!
Chief
Back to the subject at hand. A complete lack of wisdom is what you have in the ntcc. I was part of the same system, just like many of you still are. You wanna know how brainwashed I was? A couple weeks before I left the ntcc, I was contemplating leaving. I was considering leaving the ntcc for good. I thought that it was the devil speaking to me, so you know what I did? I prayed and asked God to kill me if I ever left the ntcc. At that time I thought leaving the ntcc to be the most destructive thing a person could do. I told God that I didn't want to be the cause of others dying and going to hell. You talk about a complete lack of wisdom. This is one of the worse prayers that a person could pray.
ReplyDeleteWhy would I think this way? I was made to believe that if I left the ntcc, I would give everyone I ever knew and whose lives I'd touched a reason to blaspheme God. A couple weeks later I left ntcc. I had already left God, years earlier and was just going through the motions of being a good ntcc Christian. I am so thankful that God never answered my prayer and that not only did God not kill me, He gave me another chance at life and forgave me of a Multitude of sins and I mean many grievous sins. When this forgiveness took place in my life, I immediately realized that the ntcc was a huge cult and that many of their actions and their teachings were false. I look back on it now and ask myself the question, "How brainwashed was I that I would ask God to kill me for leaving an organization?"
Why would someone think this way? I'll tell you why. Because every time without exception that a person left the ntcc, we were told that that person was crossed up with God and that they were on their way to hell. What a messed up way to instill fear into the hearts of Christians. This is supposed to be a Christian church and look what they are the cause of. Look at all the people that leave and think they have no hope whatsoever, to ever come back to Christ.
In spite of everything, I have found that many of the people that have left have contacted me and some, like me, were rescued from destruction by God's mercy, and others never left God they just left the ntcc. One thing that I've noticed in folks like Larry Travis and MDR and other friends that have continued in God or found their way back to God is that they are now living for God freely of their own accord and they are discovering how great and wonderful God is when you get rid of all the ntcc garbage that has been polluting your life.
I've noticed that the focus of many post ntcc Christians is no longer that of judging others and trying to tare them down, but they enjoy the freedom God intended for us to have. It's no longer about the do's and the don'ts.
DnA
That being said, we don't feel right just sitting back and watching people be abused for power, greed and money. We hold the ntcc leadership to a higher standard because they have used their positions to disperse judgement on others and they do so for the love of money and power. They destroy lives. We are not just a bunch of disgruntled God haters, but we have something in common here. Our eyes have been opened to the cruelty of the ntcc masters and the cunning trickery that they have used to keep people in fear of leaving their cult.
ReplyDeleteDo we rejoice in the iniquity of the ntcc leadership? Absolutely not. But if people in the ntcc know about the double standards that they are living under, they might wake up. The same people that are requiring you to make bricks without straw are the ones that are living in luxury off of your dime and they are in many cases committing far worse sins than you are. Are they truly repentant or are they just sorry they got caught? The ntcc leadership should be required to write a "This is I" paper and post it on the entrance of their church so that when they preach to you, and tell you that you are going to die and go to hell for being lascivious and wearing shorts or men having facial hair or women wearing make up or jewelry or what ever garbage they try to feed you, you will see in writing what they are all about.
"Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?" Romans 2:22
Why would you impose all these constrictive rules in peoples lives when many of you are guilty of a lot worse? Kinson went to a whorehouse and cheated on his wife. Big deal, am I his judge? No way. But we aren't sinning by shining light on these facts. Should an adulterer be allowed to tell others that if they go to a public swimming pool that they are going to die and go to hell? Should they be allowed preach that if people don't attend every church function every day that they don't have a burden for souls? The only people I find fault with are the hypocrites that make up all these stupid rules and impose them on others, WHEN THEY THEMSELVES ARE GUILTY OF FAR WORSE.
A complete lack of wisdom.
Don and Ange
New blog:
ReplyDeletelink 1: Emerge: Home Page
link 2: Emerge: The Order of Things
Don and Ange, I don't know you but I feel like I do, I feel like you are so right. As a former member I feel douped, I come to this blog and I do understand the reasons that after you left, sometimes years later, you still feel the need to be heard. I think it is not only to warn others but also a way to heal. I an certainly understand that. I too struggle with some of the brainwashing I have had over the years. I just accepted it all, I thought it and lived it. I still serve God, but not with the restraints that the NTCC placed on me. This blog is important for ppeople who have left to say what is on their mind. I see the need for it now, because here I am leaving my two cents worth. Keep it up.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI see the need for it now, because here I am leaving my two cents worth.
Chief said...
We all need to keep it up. I know a lot of people read this blog because I check the hit counter. Of course there aren't a lot of people who post. I understand the reasons why. One way or the other the word is getting out.
Chief
Anonymous said:
ReplyDelete"I think it is not only to warn others but also a way to heal."
DnA said:
That's very true. The blogs are definitely a great place to heal. It helps so much to be able to express your self among others that have experienced the same thing. You can't talk about this stuff to people that you work with or other friends because they don't understand. The ntcc disowns everyone that leaves and you are left to work everything out on your own. I honestly don't think there are too many trained professionals that are equipped to deal with problems that many X-cult members are experiencing.
I'm sure there are different degrees of damage that people go through after they leave the ntcc, and I'm thankful that God has given me a sound mind, but we have all had large portions of our lives destroyed or ruined. We will never get those years back.
For some of us we just try to make the most out of the years we have ahead of us. Blogging is a great source of healing for me because when you share this stuff with others that understand, it helps you cope and gives you an outlet to vent or be heard.
It is our prayer and hearts desire that others that are still in the ntcc will realize that they are also being used and that the longer they stay in the more damage they will sustain. We also want the general public to be able to learn about our experiences. When people google the ntcc we want them to find out that they are a destructive organization that has nothing to do with the love, mercy and grace of God, but that they are a bunch of money grubbing fanatics whose sole purpose is to control your life so you will support their insatiable appetite for wealth.
We are always encouraged to see people post here and the more people set aside their fear and come to the realization that we were victims of a controlling group whose intentions were corrupt to begin with, the quicker the healing will begin.
DnA
You know chief, the people in ntcc that read this blog are very scared about others finding them out. Like reed said, you better not say anything to anybody because right away you are gonna be targeted.
ReplyDeleteOf course, there are others that come to read just so that they can report back to the leaders of what you guys are writing.
It amazes me that when I talk to people they will go to great extremes to hide that they come and read.
But the word is out and more and more people are staying in graham to do their own thing and the new generation of ntccer's are not as stupid as us that we would jump and shout when they said to do it.
I like to read the posts that DnA writes because she really goes to the nitty gritty of what the mind goes through when one is thinking of leaving the org.
Bless you all.
Hey leaders of the ntcc...
ReplyDelete"You don't get to decide who God is."~F.Chan
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteYou know chief, the people in ntcc that read this blog are very scared about others finding them out.
Chief said...
Yeah I understand. That is sad. You should never have to be scared of the leaders of a church. If the church leaders don't have anything to hide, what difference should it make whether someone reads this blog or not? They have a lot to hide and that is why blogs like this are they only way you will learn what these crooks are really all about. They tried their best to hide their dirt but too many people knew and now they are coming forward.
Anyway good post. The more, the merrier.
Chief
This women has an absolutely beautiful blog I wanted to share it I hope it is a blessing an an encouragement to others.
ReplyDeletehttp://anointedforthefuture.blogspot.com/2011/01/worship-vs-praise-whats-difference.html
Shonda
Anon said,
ReplyDelete"I like to read the posts that DnA writes because she really goes to the nitty gritty of what the mind goes through when one is thinking of leaving the org."
DnA say,
Thank you. You also said, "It amazes me that when I talk to people they will go to great extremes to hide that they come and read."
I used to be so afraid to click into the blogs just to read. But that fear is not of God.
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
kekel actually threatened bible school students, saying he had a list of IP addresses of those people who went on these blogs. Aside from being illegal, his threat was designed to instill fear to keep people away from the truth about the ntcc.
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Whenever someone is trying to hide something from you, ask yourself why and then be sure to investigate even more fully. You may not like what you see; but it will make you free!
DnA
Hey, here's a great quote I ran across today which should provide some food for thought by those entangled in the NTCC:
ReplyDelete"If you think you're free, there's no chance of escape!"