Attached below is a link that pdq posted within the previous thread. It is a link to a test entitled "$uper Apostle Detector". I think this test tells quite a bit about any church obviously including the NTCC. I'm not usually a fan or at all interested in these kind of tests but I actually thought this one was good. Just take the test and see what you come up with. It's not very long, and it should only take about 3 to 5 minutes. The key to this test is that you must be honest while answering all of the questions. I personally though all but a few of the questions were quite good. I'm interested in hearing some responses concerning your test results. The hyperlink is posted directly below, just click on it and the test should come right up.
Take care,
Jeff
I just took it and of course got the Super Apostle church, leave immediately. It's what I figured would happen. I answered this honestly.
ReplyDeleteJeff,
ReplyDeleteI took this test two years ago. I got half way through before the Super Apostle red flag went up. I wish I had taken that test 15 years ago!!!
WOW! Not so much the answer that I recieved as much as it was the questions that pointed to this type of controlling behaviour. NTCC is a cult, in it's purest form, and to deny otherwise, is just plain blind ignorance!
ReplyDeleteJeff, this is great!!!
ReplyDeleteBro J
Never Harm said...
ReplyDeleteI just took it and of course got the Super Apostle church, leave immediately. It's what I figured would happen. I answered this honestly.
LTravis said...
Yea what you said..
Yes the test should give most "honest" folks a wake up call. Let's face it; the NTCC isn't everything that it was cracked up to be. We were tricked big time and many still are. It's quite a messed up organization to say the least. Hopefully folks will consider. I'm certainly glad and thankful to be out of the old org for good.
ReplyDeleteJeff
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteWOW! Not so much the answer that I received as much as it was the questions that pointed to this type of controlling behavior.
Jeff said...
Exactly. Isn't that what I regularly say? I always refer to NTCC ministers as "Control Mongers". I'm not sure if many of them actually realize that they are so controlling? RWD, the overseers, the pastors are all control mongers. No doubt. Jesus was not a control monger. The apostles were not control mongers. The NTCC is all about two things and I've said this all along, (CONTROL AND MONEY).
It's not about holiness and it's not about salvation because if it was about those two, Kekel wouldn't have gotten away with so many liberal practices and RWD would have regularly given folks an open invitation to leave "HIS" church if they didn't like it there. So if it is not about holiness and salvation, (which it clearly isn't) it obviously must be about something else and all roads and clues point to (CONTROL and MONEY)! There is no other logical answer and the evidence is irrefutable.
The control aspect is multiplied 100 times where the NTCC women are concerned. That is why RWD and his henchmen don't want women to work. They loose control of the women when the women get a job because many of them would say, "forget the NTCC" and leave. The women can't do that when they are broke so consequently they have literally no choice but to rely on the men for all support. Control means more to RWD and his henchmen then the money does and that is why they would rather have the women figuratively barefoot and literally jobless and out soul winning and cleaning the church and Kekels house. They would rather have control of the women than get the extra money that their job would bring to the church.
It's not an uncommon psycho tendency for people to want control of other people. Power, authority and control mean more to a authoritarian narcissist than having more money which incidentally RWD doesn't need anyway. This is why he would rather keep the women in check and have control of them.
Everyone knows that RWD wants to be in control of everyone but especially the women. That explains all the rules. Stand against the wall, ask permission for everything, and never ever question RWD or one of his leaders. This tells it all right here and RWD said this openly in conference: "If you have a problem with one of my pastors you have a problem with me, and if you have a problem with me, you have a problem with GOD."
If he ain't a control monger freak than I don't know who is. Folks you need to run from the NTCC and salvage what life you have left. I'm trying to make up for a lot of lost money, opportunities and time. This test should be another real eye opener.
Jeff
To tell you the truth, chief, I don't need to go and take a test to find out what I have already know in my heart and what that little still voice tells me, it's called, common sense.
ReplyDeleteYou knew something was wrong when you were in the servicemen's home and olson or rwd or ashmore or whoever of those people came by to visit or preach and these pastors and wives were all over themselves trying to put on the dog for these people and cooking these elaborate meals that never in their minds would do for the servicemen. They were viewed of as God. One lady got it wrong when somebody told her that rwd prefered percolated coffee, oh boy was she ever so bummed out when rwd didn't want to drink her coffee that she had just prepared. He told her, "no thank you. I don't drink that kind of coffee"
Poor sister, but right away she sent one of the soldiers to buy the instant coffee he liked.
On and on I can go with examples of how that you knew something was wrong when this or that event happened, but thanks anyways pdq.
As for me, I don't need a test to know what is wrong and what is right. Just my opinion.
blovd
"I don't drink that kind of coffee...."
ReplyDeleteTry pulling that stunt at his house and see what happens.
The mere fact that RW prefers rotgut instant coffee speaks volumes about his sensibilities. Maybe he just wants the caffeine buzz. Or maybe it's just a mind game to see whose loyalty extends to rejecting good coffee for swill. He does that kind of thing a lot.
ReplyDeleteI know a lady in ntcc that did not get a dog. Just because rw did not like dogs. Since he visited there area. And he would not have gone to there home if they had a dog.
ReplyDeleteI can see a person if they had Allergies. But just because you don't like dogs!
MIND CONTROL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI know a lady in ntcc that did not get a dog. Just because rw did not like dogs. Since he visited there area. And he would not have gone to there home if they had a dog.
I can see a person if they had Allergies. But just because you don't like dogs!
MIND CONTROL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LTravis said...
I remember seeing a dog in his yard years ago. The problem is he makes all the rules and he can break all the rules. He can and has changed his mind on a number of topics. Do as I say not as I do.
yes,he had a dog YEARS ago. long before I even joined ntcc. And I was in upteen years. He did Flipflop on that so called policy. Have a pet,and you would not see rw davis at your home. And everyone wanted the "apostle" to there home! NOT ME! Never wanted MK or RW to my home! To much hoops to jump through. His coffee,his magazine's,his desert,what he will eat and that is it. Did anyone ask what Verna liked??? NO WAY! It was all about rw and his like's!
ReplyDeleteCM
I am going to take a break from this blog, face it folks we all need a break, even from exNTCC blogs.
ReplyDeleteTalk to you all in JAN 2010 sometime!
Bro Johnson
Just think how many folks that will come on between now and Jan 1010,Johnson!
ReplyDeleteALOT! Those folks need to hear the Truth! And the more True Stories that are shared. The more folks can read and FLEA and never grace those UGLE doors in WA or any of there small Churches! And then all the trapped folks in ntcc. That come on here. As the FOG begins to lift! All of us can help save these folks from getting trapped or get untrapped from this CULT!!
CM
CM said...
ReplyDeleteAll of us can help save these folks from getting trapped or get untrapped from this CULT!!
Jeff said...
Amen, however I do understand old Bro. J. Sometimes folks need to pull away from this blogging business. I may take a break periodically but this blog is going nowhere. The NTCC is as destructive as any group that I have ever known. They are very subtle and that is why they are so dangerous. If they were just killing folks they would be easier to spot but that is not what's happening. They slowly but thoroughly destroy, waist and ruin folks lives and that is what makes them so dangerous.
You don't see it coming until years later and then you've already wasted so much time and resources.
Jeff.
ntcc has killed people.
ReplyDeleteA man left ntcc and killed himself and his wife and child. thought his soul was ruined.
Ntcc kills people's souls,there beliefs,any self esteem they had is gone and hard to build it back up. Men leave and blame themselve's. When it was not there failure but the trust they put in these so called leaders. We thought so highly of. there JUST MEN! Very corrupt men and women out to ruin people's live's. All in the name of the almighty dollar. to get rich off other's hard work. I am sorry None of those men in ntcc know what hard labor is. Beside's Johnson and Gesang! the other men and women have soft hands,clean fingernails. Have no idea what real work is.
How many folks that have left ntcc are in therapy or need to be in therapy to move past what we all went through. the brainwashing,the control,how to make a decision again! ALOT!!
We may be physically alive. But for some it takes a while to get back into REAL LIFe!!
How many people "in" NTCC that are on antidepressants, speed(diet pills), or alcohol(Nyquil)?
ReplyDeleteAnon wrote...
ReplyDeleteHow many folks that have left ntcc are in therapy or need to be in therapy to move past what we all went through. the brainwashing,the control,how to make a decision again! ALOT!!
Jeff said...
That is true and a shame. Fortunately for me, one of the main problems that I had (with NTCC pastors) while I was in the NTCC is that I didn't stop making decisions for myself. They didn't like that one bit. They want you to be drones that snap to their every whim and when I didn't do it, boy would it make them mad. The NTCC does however mess up the lives of many people. I wish folks would wake up and see the NTCC for what it really is which is nothing but a big old scam.
Jeff
eventually people get tired and stop because they really didn't believe in what they were doing or they didn't have any vested interest in it. go ahead and go and live a good life and don't ever remember that you were in ntcc, or that you were a part of this group, don't even mention that you went out and tried and got others to join. just forget it and think of it as just a bad dream you had.
ReplyDeleteIf you can do this my friend, you were never really "in"
blovd
here's some encouragement too.
ReplyDeleteif you leave, your life wont be ruined. that is just ntcc lies and brainwashing. call to Jesus and He'll be there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pxy8dVPUjq0
http://www.the-fun-zone.com/free-christian-movies-online-home
Watch the stranger series episode called woman at the well
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteMy problem was I respected and admired minister's,pastors,clery! The one's I had as a child I looked up to and respected. Helped me alot through my growing up years. So when I got into ntcc. I carried that samething on. thinking these are the men and women to help guide and shape me. Into being the pastors wife that I should be. I am a people pleaser,another thing that did not help me in ntcc. Trying to please them is impossible!
What has happened to me after leaving ntcc. Is regaining my trust in a minister. I will never give it all over again. Alot of me will be held back. But it is getting better!
I can say they did kill my innocence and trust in minister's. Seeing them as the one to help guide and teach me. I do more reading on my own,which is good! I told my DH,I don't need Church anymore. But I do desire and enjoy the Church atmosphere and helping out!
CM
Von voyage mr. johnson.
ReplyDelete(melody taken from the kids chanting to obama)
ntcc is winning, hmm, hmm, hmm
ntcc is winning, hmm, hmm, hmm
Your saying ntcc is winning because Johnson is taking a break from blogging. Give me a break! talking about ntcc all the time gets SOO Boring. Since folks in ntcc have No live's,boring recreation(sitting around feeding there face's)!!
ReplyDeleteNope ntcc is not winning. Since we are leaving and more are on there way out. Jump ship folks. Life rafts are below!
Cm
Leaving it's easier said than done.
ReplyDeleteAs for me, I have my whole family in so I can't just up and leave.
I have put a lot of time in and sacrificed too much to just go on my way and never see my family and grandkids again.
I've seen how people that have left are treated by their own flesh and blood. I don't think I am ready to pay those consequences.
a.p.w.
a.p.w.: I am very sad to hear that. The NTCC can become a trap. I totally understand. You do what you have to do.
ReplyDeleteSincerely,
Jeff
a.p.w. said...
ReplyDeleteLeaving it's easier said than done.
As for me, I have my whole family in so I can't just up and leave.
I have put a lot of time in and sacrificed too much to just go on my way and never see my family and grandkids again.
I've seen how people that have left are treated by their own flesh and blood. I don't think I am ready to pay those consequences.
a.p.w.
Jeff said...
First off the initials a.p.w. stand for "another preachers or pastors wife". She is obviously the wife of a preacher and or pastor in the NTCC. My wife and I discussed a.p.w's statement this evening. It is totally sad. Why is it that the NTCC has folks so brainwashed that they will forsake their own family members for the sake of the NTCC? I could see forsaking your family for Jesus but the NTCC is not Jesus. NTCC pastors don't act like Jesus, talk like Jesus, have compassion like Jesus, or have common decency like Jesus. In fact based on my experiences with NTCC pastors, they are the total opposite of Jesus, (with few exceptions), and those are still brainwashed also.
The NTCC is such a manipulative cult that they actually promote family separations, divorces, and disownership of family members to include children and parents for the sake of maintaining loyalty to the NTCC and it's leaders. The NTCC is so thoroughly messed up that there should be a law that protects folks against such organizations. Just read the statement written by "another preachers wife" and draw your own conclusion. What she is writing is true and that can't be denied.
a.p.w., you are a strong women and guess what? I know this goes without saying but stick with your family because it's the only one you've got. I don't blame you a bit and if that means that you stay with the NTCC than so be it!!!!! Just love your family because the NTCC certainly won't. If there is anyway my family can ever help just call. 404-405-8742
Jeff
Brother, you just don't know what your message means to me. I am writing this with tears in my eyes.
ReplyDeleteYou are the first to ever tell me something like that, in all those years in ntcc!
I have never ever have heard those words from anybody in ntcc and that is why I'm crying.
You bet I will take your words for what they are, sincere and from your heart, from you and your family.
I remember when the cellular phones were first coming out.
There was a guy named blumenthal, and this guy was just something else.
He would do anything to be in the good graces with the higher uppers in ntcc. Well, he started a collection for rw's birthday. Blumenthal thought it would be a good idea to buy rw a cell phone so that rw could be in touch with olson or the office in graham when he was away from home. Well olson vetoed it along with the others in the board. The reason they gave was that pastor davis didn't need to be bothered by the organization more that he needed to be because as soon as the pastors and ministers knew his cell phone, they would be calling rw left and right with their petty things! I sure don't know the phone of rwd. If you need to talk to somebody you need to first call the office in graham. It is such a bother to have to tell those minions in the office that you want to speak to somebody. Then if olson is not available you will have to make an appointment and will have to wait days to just talk to somebody.
What does the this story have to do with anything? Well, because just a few people know rwd phone number. In one of the conferences he told everybody that he had just changed his number because there was a minister that was calling him to pester him about why it was rwd fault that his wife had left him! rwd told everybody that as of that day you wouldn't have his number unless olson would give it to you. And brother, you don't even know who I am and here you are, giving me your number, actually caring for an unknown!
Thank you and your family.
a.p.w.
a.p.w. said...
ReplyDeleteAnd brother, you don't even know who I am and here you are, giving me your number, actually caring for an unknown!
Thank you and your family.
a.p.w.
Jeff said...
But I do know who you are; not literally but figuratively. Your someone who has experienced the same hardship and abuse as my family and I, so I kind of see us as war veterans who served in the same unit. That really is the way I see it. I can relate with your stories because I've had the same experiences as you have. Then on top of that I realize that the NTCC certainly won't lend a helping hand, (other than trying to get you to 4 services a week or any other event that supports the building and growth of "their" church). RWD said it was "his" church because he was there first. It is certainly no body else's church because it is either RWD's way or the highway.
Unfortunately his way has often proved to be the wrong way, (as evidenced by the Denis debacle). RWD is anything but always right and nobody else is always right either. The difference is other people will listen to their subordinates and other leaders don't think they have all the answers. You can't tell most of the NTCC leadership squat because they are so full of themselves that they don't even consider the opinions of other people.
If Moses didn't consider the advise given by his father in law he would have continued to judge every last person in Israel. Unfortunately RWD and his henchmen never learned that Bible lesson. They may disperse duties but they don't take advise just like RWD wasn't interested in hearing that Denis was a double crosser who was full of himself so RWD had to find out the hard way. RWD's weak fellow leaders were too scared to really speak out about Denis because they know RWD wouldn't listen and they are the same why as RWD is because they won't listen to anyone else either. The fact is they are all just like Denis and visa versa.
You see I understand exactly just how destitute the NTCC can leave folks because I've witnessed it so the offer is a standing one. Thanks for the reply a.p.w.
Jeff
a.p.w.,
ReplyDeleteI've taken a break from the blogs lately, but I had to respond to your story. It's heartbreaking, and I felt intense sadness while reading it. I'm not even sure what I want to say, but here goes.
If you've been in ntcc any length of time you'll know who I am. We left ntcc around 3 years ago. It was the BEST decision I could have made. It was the RIGHT decision, and I am so thankful I did it. But, at the time, it an intensely hard decision. I had devoted 24 years of my life to that organization. I had been very faithful, obeyed all the rules to a tee (now optional I hear), lived a sincerely holy life, plus teaching at the school and playing in the band. Leaving ntcc meant I had to acknowledge that I had just WASTED 24 years of my life!! I had to admit to myself that it was all for Nothing! But for years I had lied to myself that ntcc was OK-- that it was a good church and that it was God's church. But, it wasn't. Even when it became painfully obvious that ntcc was really a sham (and that RWD was a sham), that they really could care less about me or my family, and that all the leaders cared about was Money and Power---- STILL, I didn't want to accept it. But, the day came when I couldn't lie to myself anymore. I had to admit it-- NTCC was a messed up church run by a bunch of selfish, self-centered preachers who cared more about money than they did about people. I didn't see Christ in their lives or actions.
Leaving was traumatic. I became very depressed, because I had LOST 24 years of my life that I could never get back. And at 40-something I had to start over from scratch. But through reaching out to friends who had left also (people I could talk to who really understood what I was going through),and also by posting on Factnet and blogs such as this one, I have been able to come to grips with it. And I was amazed at all the great opportunities that came our way.
The huge positive in all this is that me, my wife and my kids are now in CONTROL of our lives, and not some narcissistic blow-hard. Life outside of ntcc has been awesome. In a few short years we have enjoyed more in life than I ever did in 24 years of ntcc. I've made more money and been so much happier. And the best part is that my kids are flourishing and doing things they could never do in ntcc. Like skiing and sailing and hiking. Just enjoying their childhood-- a childhood denied them by ntcc (although GK was allowed to have his).
I cannot imagine the pain of being trapped in ntcc, because of my family. My heart really goes out to you. I pray you do well. But, as the time has gone by I really more and more just how ungodly a church ntcc is. Sure, they have an "outward" appearance of holiness. But, they continue to HURT good people, ruin lives, destroy families and good marriages, and promote men through the ranks who have no business in the ministry. I hope one day you'll get the opportunity to feel REAL freedom by leaving ntcc, and finally having the life you want, without having to get permission to do what you think God wants you to do. Take Care.
I have been to the beach 3 times in the last month with my family.
ReplyDeleteWhile I was in the NTCC for 10 years = ZERO
Nhojnos
Nhojnos said...
ReplyDeleteI have been to the beach 3 times in the last month with my family.
While I was in the NTCC for 10 years = ZERO
Jeff said...
There were a whole lot of other forms of recreation that we as NTCCers participated in "ZERO" times while we were with the NTCC.
That in itself wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the Kekel family (with the obvious approval of the Davis family) participating in recreational events consistently during the same time that the rest of us we abstaining from such practices. RWD and his henchman (through psychological pounding) robbed us of all kinds of fun and entertainment that the Kekels obviously enjoyed.
The NTCC leaders know this because I've also pounded this point home right here on this blog. These NTCC leaders are absolutely despicable, deplorable, disgusting, and destitute of common decency. Their disingenuous demonic dastardly deeds have resulted in the degradation of their dependents daily lives and as a result we have developed a disposition which demonstrates despise for their dogmatic declarations.
WOW!!! How did you like that display of "D" words?
How "D"elightful.
Jeff
You're right, Jeff.
ReplyDeleteNow with the holiday season approaching, never was able to go and spend my christmas or thanksviging with my parents.
Specially if you were in some kind of leadership position in the church, like sunday school teacher or the like. It seemed that the pastors would start preaching about how that you need to leave those things behind and that the real family is that of the church and on and on. I was told once when I went to visit a relative that was in ICU, that I was hindering the work of God, because they needed me in the church to do the things that I had done always like teach the kids, clean the church, go soul-winning, go visit during the week, attend prayers meetings. It's unbelievable to think that if I missed a few services, God was going to be stopped on doing what He has always done, with or without us.
blovd
blovd wrote...
ReplyDeleteI was told once when I went to visit a relative that was in ICU, that I was hindering the work of God, because they needed me in the church to do the things that I had done always like teach the kids, clean the church, go soul-winning, go visit during the week, attend prayers meetings.
Jeff wrote...
And that is the NTCCs favorite set of tricks. It's actually moderately complex. The reason NTCC pastors act like that is ultimately because of RWD. For years he has brought heat upon his pastors. The end result is whats known as "poop flowing downhill". Trick #1. RWD knows and has known for years that if he places enough heat under his pastors they will in turn put heat under their church members hence, "poop flowing downhill". All an NTCC pastor cares about is his report. If the pastor doesn't figure out how to boost the figures on his report, he won't last long or he won't remain a pastor long.
As the higher leadership puts heat under the pastors butt, the pastor puts heat on his congregation. If the money and numbers don't rise, the heat rises right under your butt. NTCC pastors generally don't care about your life and that fact has been proven time and time again. They could care less about your parents, children, aunts, uncles, etc. All they care about is money and numbers because that's what RWD has taught for years. Trick #2. RWD uses money and number as the litmus test. It's actually not a totally bad indicator except that RWD and his henchmen don't even care what means or methods a pastor uses to get the "money and numbers", hence Ron Denis!!!!!! RWD thought Denis was the greatest while the money and numbers were there, but the proof is in the pudding my friend and we know how the game ended. Strike Three, Your OUT!!!
If you going to see someone in ICU means less money or numbers for the pastor then the pastor will try to prevent you from going by using the method of "guilt tripping". Trick #3. They consistently try to make you feel like you are "neglecting God". And that my friends is TRICK #4!!!! This is the exact point where we all got brainwashed. It happened right at (Trick #4).
Generally NTCC pastors could care less about your quality of life as long as your life is totally given for the furtherance of their agenda. If your plans don't line up with their agenda then they routinely put the heat on you or RWD and Olson will put the heat on them!!! It's just that simple and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with Gods agenda. It's the truth.
Summery. Trick #1; poop flowing down hill (put the heat on). Trick #2; money, numbers and the (REPORT). Trick #3; guilt trip your church members. Trick #4; convince your church members they are neglecting GAWWWWWD in everything they do which goes right in line with trick #3. The Big Brainwash!!!!!!!
Jeff