The Bible Clearly Shows A Pattern Of The Church Providing Monetarily Relief For It's Poor. Virtually All NTCC Widows Fall In That Category.

Mike Kekel quoted:

1 Tim 5:16 If any man or woman that believeth have widows, let them relieve them, and let not the church be charged; that it may relieve them that are widows indeed.

Mike Kekel wrote:

"To date, we've had none that qualify by the Bible. I'm sorry if that presents for you or the Shunks an inconvenience, but God wrote it, not NTCC. People are taught this in Bible College, they cannot claim ignorance."

Chief quoted:

1Cor 16:1-2 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Chief wrote: Below is a copy of the portion of the NTCCs doctrinal statement concerning tithes.

Tithe

We recognize the scriptural duty of all people as well as ministers, to pay tithes unto the Lord. (Heb. 7:8) Tithes should be used for the support of the active ministry and for the propagation of the Gospel and the work of the Lord. It is not to be given to charity or used for other purposes. (Mal. 3:7–11; Heb. 7:2; 1 Cor. 9:7–11; 16:2)

Chief asked: So why did the NTCC include 1 Cor 16:2 if they are really so concerned about doctrinal purity as Mike wants to point out as I've illustrated above. In Strong's, look up the word "collection" which was taken up for the saints in 1Cor 16. It is word number 3048 in the Strong's numbering system. The word "collection" in 1Cor 16 means and I quote: "a collection of money gathered for the relief of the poor" end of quote. If there is any doubt about what I've written I've attached a hyperlink which you can click that verifies my absolute, concrete conclusion. Read it for yourself and click the link below and please keep an open mind. The word "gatherings" used in 1Cor 16:2 means the exact same thing. Strong's #3048. Click on the link.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3048&t=KJV

The point I'm making here is that the NTCC and Mike Kekel will use the Bible in a hot second, if it supports their desire to not provide financial support for a widow, (indeed or not) but they will plainly twist the scriptures (which I've proven they do) while misusing and deceitfully using the Bible to support their greedy desire to get financial support from you. 1Cor 16:2 has absolutely nothing to do with paying tithe but it does have to do with taking up a collection of money for the purpose of relieving the poor Saints in the church which any NTCC Widow falls in the category of whether or not she can be truly considered a "Widow indeed".

What is also interesting is that the NTCC uses 1Cor 16 in a feeble attempt to justify paying 10% of your income to the church however in their doctrinal statement they say that tithe can not be given to charity (which in complete contrast to their doctrinal statement) is exactly what the folks were in fact doing in 1Cor 16:2. I quote again, "a collection of money gathered for the relief of the poor" and more specifically a collection taken up to for the relief of the poor Saints in the Christian church as can be plainly seen in 1Cor 16:1. 

16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

² Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
³ And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.
⁴ And if it be meet that I go also, they shall go with me.
⁵ Now I will come unto you, when I shall pass through Macedonia: for I do pass through Macedonia.

Now look at the account of the same event found in Romans.

Rom 15:25 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints. 

26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.

Neither one of those two passages have JACK to do with paying tithe so why does the decieptful NTCC leadership include 1 Cor 16:2 in their doctrinal statement to justify the doctrine of compulsory tithing?  Because they are crooks and you NTCCers are dummies because you don't question them and you blindly buy off on this mess.  Whether or not you believe in tithing is not the issue here; that's entirely up to you.  The issue here is that your stinking sorry sad hypocritical NTCC leadership is willfully misusing the scriptures in this case and you NTCCers are too stupid and brainwashed to see and admit the obvious.  

So what we see here folks is a bunch of NTCC leaders who will use the Bible to justify them receiving and keeping your money but not giving it for the relief of the poor which I guarantee virtually all NTCC widows fall in the category of. Please study what I've written here folks.

Chief

What It Takes To Be A Con Artist

Attached to the left is the picture of a man reading from a book and raising his hand in the fashion of an orator or public speaker.  Orators can often be skilled public speakers who periodically possess strong powers of persuasion.  They can convince people to believe anything they want them to.  I heard someone make a statement on the radio just the other day that really caught my attention.   The person said, "People believe what they want to believe".  That really caught my attention and I'll tell you why.

No one wants to believe they are the victim of a con game perpetuated by a con artist.  You know why?   Because to come to that realization makes almost anyone feel stupid and gullible and who wants to believe that about themselves?   It's no fun to come to the realization that you in fact were a gullible sucker and easily manipulated.  It's no fun to realize that you were foolish enough to become the easy victim of a con artist.   I posted a message on the previous thread and I kind of liked what I posted so I figured I'd start a new thread with it.  

I previously wrote...

Who knows???  With the NTCC leadership anything is possible because they certainly are masters of the cover-up and deception and that is not speculation or a conspiracy theory, that is a fact.  So I'd put nothing past the NTCC leadership which is why I entertain all accusations levied against them.  Just when you think an accusation against the NTCC leadership is too far fetched, they prove you wrong every time.  I'm not kidding.

Nothing I hear about them surprises me anymore because I have personal knowledge of so many conniving acts they've committed.  I mean these guys are crooks to the max and real deal con artists.  We throw the term "con artist" around quite often but I don't think the average NTCCer realizes how accurately that term fits the description of the NTCC leadership?  They are con artists. 

Con Artist definitions:

1: A person adept at swindling by means of confidence games; a swindler.  

2:  One adept at persuasion, especially at dishonest or self-serving persuasion.   

3:  A person who cheats or tricks others by persuading them to believe something that is not true.

Now does that describe the NTCC leadership or what?  The first definition is outstanding.  That's the reason religious people make such good con artists.  They get you to trust them because who would doubt a soul winning Christian who teaches honesty?  Who would doubt a preacher right?  That's how they got me.  I trusted those con artist and that was the first and biggest mistake I made.  You have to gain the "confidence" of the people you con.  I know better than to trust the Kekel's or Olson but the average NTCCer trusts them blindly.  They appear to be one way but in reality they are the complete opposite.  

Christ described them best:   Mat 7:15  Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Listen to this people and listen good!!!  Mat 7:15 is the one scripture that NTCC people ignore and overlook THE MOST!!!

Chief

I Have A Legitimate And Sincere Question? Please Feel Free To Answer Anonymously.

In fact, I ask that everyone who responds does so anonymously.  I also ask that no one attempt to discredit anyones's answer.  I have  my reasons for this.  Additionally, I also started a thread below, so feel free to respond to that at anytime.  So here is my question?

What do you suppose will happen to you, if you are a Christian who is a tithe payer, or one who believes in paying tithe, and you completely stop paying tithe???   Or, what if you are a Christian tithe payer and suddenly, (for whatever reason) you no longer believe in paying tithe, and you completely stop paying tithe???  In either case what I'm asking is, will there be consequences?? Tangible consequences?? What will happen to you.  Legitimate question.  I'm curious to see as many responses as people are willing to leave and what people think and believe.  PLEASE POST ANONYMOUSLY.  Again, I have my reasons for making that request.  It will make this thread far more interesting.  

Also, feel free to give the reason for your answer to include scriptures if you think that's necessary.  Either way on that one. 

Chief

Out With Ashmore. Damage Control And The Smear

To the left, Mr. Kekel.  What more needs to be said.

I've received information regarding some statements which have been reportedly made by M. Kekel.  Now before I continue, please understand that this information is second hand which means that I didn't personally witness Kekel making these statements.  Having said that, I believe this information to be highly credible based on where I got it.  I will do my best to relay this information as closely as I possibly can to reflect what I heard.  

It's my understanding that during a service which Kekel was either a part of or actually holding himself, Kekel decided to start verbally discrediting someone who had left the New Testament Christian Chruch.  Apparently Kekel referred to this individual who left the NTCC as being "charismatic" or overly spiritual in nature and someone who believed in the gifts of the spirit.  At some point in Kekel's attempt to outwardly and openly smear this individual, Kekel said that "this person who used to be his (Kekel's) pastor, has now become his (Kekel's) enemy.  

Obviously there is only one person that Kekel could have been referring to; Ashmore.  So once again we see yet another instance where the NTCC leadership, (in this case Kekel) has elected to perform damage control while smearing the name of someone who decided to depart from the NTCC.   

Now let me speculate for a bit.  Very educated and informed speculation I might add.  Ashmore was sent to California to to pastor a church that was previously pastored by someone else. Ashmore had also previously been in a position of authority within the NTCC leadership holding what would be considered a higher position than a pastor.   So Ashmore gets sent to California to pastor, which if he continued in that position, would be considered a demotion by most accounts.  Why did Ashmore get sent to California?   I'm convinced I have the answer, and I'm quite confident that I'm very much on target with this one.  

For a long time, Davis was a strong supporter of Ashmore.  This is not speculation, but rather an absolute fact. I'm sure as time went on, that Davis knew that Kekel was anything but an advocate for Ashmore.  Kekel has proven that he has no problem voicing his feelings about someone, and that is also a fact.  I'm sure at some point, Kekel expressed his sentiments about Ashmore to Davis.  Well blood is thicker water which is self evident where the Davis, Kekel family was and is concerned and if you think otherwise you are extremely misguided.  Davis knew, (either because of his potentially soon approaching inevitable death or currently existing illness) that he would be out of the "NTCC leadership picture" and Kekel would take the reigns.  So for Kekel's sake, neither Davis or Kekel wanted Ashmore too close to Graham and they really wanted to move him out of the picture, so off to California Ashmore went.  Kekel was certainly jealous of the relationship Ashmore had with Davis and he wanted to eliminate any inevitable power struggles which he knew he'd have with Ashmore, so again, off to California Ashmore went.  

Kekel has always disliked and been intimated and jealous of anyone (who had risen to a position of authority) who Davis preferred, which definitely included Denis, because Kekel told me as much himself directly on the telephone.   Kekel told me directly, that he disliked Denis and I clearly understand why.  Davis liked Denis, and Kekel told me so, so it was obvious JEALOUSY, (on Kekel's part) bottom line.  If you think otherwise you are a straight up dummy.  

Ashmore and Denis both did something which Kekel has never done and Davis quite clearly recognized this.  They created a strong money stream due to their charisma and oratory skills, and they brought many more people into the NTCC than Kekel every could and Davis knew it, but again, blood is thicker than water.  So they had to get Ashmore out of the picture, and to make a long story short, they quite effectively "RAN HIM OFF".   The NTCC leadership is skilled at performing that task, as they are proven to be experts in the art of "RUNNING PEOPLE OFF"! They do this to people who they are either jealous of or intimidated by.  Who are they jealous of or intimidated by?  People who are more popular than they are.  

Well now, Ashmore is firing back, and though that may be a classic example of the "pot calling the kettle black", you can't blame Ashmore for defending himself even though for decades Ashmore has committed as many dastardly deeds as any other leader in the NTCC. Lastly, I strongly suspect that there is friction between Kekel and Olson and I have sound reasons for making this statement.  The NTCC is breaking apart at the seams.  If you have any sense at all, you'll get away from the NTCC while the gettin is good. If you're a pastor, (and you have a decent size church) you'll do well to take your church, forsake the NTCC name, and do your own thing.  If not, you'll eventually be left high and dry.  

The New Testament Christian Church Is A Real Estate Business, No More, No Less.

I Just found these comments on DnA's blog.  The answers to these questions are so obvious it's down right disgusting.  Additionally, you are blind as a bat if you can't figure out what the New Testament Christian Church leadership is doing.  Renting church buildings to the local churches is just another way for them to make money off the congregations and Pastors.  When are you all going to learn that the NTCC is nothing more than a real estate holding company?  We've been saying this for almost 10 years now.  We've written so many threads concerning this topic it's not even funny.   If you owned a house that you still had a mortgage on, would you tell the renters what the interest rate is or what the mortgage payment is?  Of course not.  The sooner you realize that the NTCC is not a church but a money making business, the better off you'll be.  

Real churches don't have a problem with full disclosure.  The NTCC leadership has ALWAYS had a problem with full disclosure and everyone knows that.  You are a dummy if you don't know that.  Stop giving your money to the NTCC!!!  With all this information readily available, I really, truly can't believe how gullible people can be.  Suckers; the real deal.  Anyway, written below are the comments I copied and pasted. 

Comment 1: My wife and I spent hours looking and looking we finally found something with a big area for a sanctuary and everything else that we were told to look for in a church building also a price we thought we could afford since our congregation was new and I knew we had to pay the mortgage. Next I contacted the leaders they came to check it out without me and decided they would buy it. I wasn't allow to be around for the buying process. I was told they might not want to sell it if I was there or want to use my credit and a whole bunch of other excuses. I had excellent credit at the time but I feared to argued because they taught to question the leaders was to disrespect God. So I wasn't present. J. Ashmore, J. Olsen, and another person that was on the board assured me that once the building was paid for it became that individual church's building and Graham would turn over the deed to the building to that church. I thought this is a good plan. The building needed painting and a few other things not anything major and it was listed for 76,000. Once everything was done I was contacted to go out to eat. I thought we were going to go over the paperwork but I was showed nothing. I was told your mortgage payment is 1300.00 a month. I about chocked on the food in my mouth that was nowhere near what I and my wife had planned for in payments. I said Oh there must be something I missed because I thought the payments would be a whole lot less. It was told me that there was more land that was not named on the paper I had, there was insurance, the yearly taxes, and so on. I said we can't afford this. I was then told, "Are you going to doubt like Peter or are you going to keep your eyes on Jesus and walk on water. Matthew 17:20 tells us " And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you." It is all about faith brother all about faith."

That was the last time my credit was excellent. We ended up losing the house we were renting and I had to move my wife and kids to a very tiny little apartment. My kids were so disappointed because the house had a big basement to play in at night after our long days and the last people had left the backyard set up for kids. My kids had so loved this house. It had made the move to a new place much easier. We were told that God wanted to teach us something that is why we were there. That sometimes God has got to take you to the desert to show you things.

Comment 2:  As a pastor in NTCC, I know one of many things that has really bothered me. I wouldn’t write it here if they would only answer our questions. When we bought our Church and thankfully NTCC put up the funds, I asked, What is the interest rate? They would not answer me. They never send us a statement. How will I know when this is paid off? We’ve been paying for years, what is our current status? Nothing. Then I figured out it was probably equivalent to a 6.5% interest rate @ 30 years. Which at the time was great! But now, interest rates are at 3.75% and for a 15 year its down to 3%. So I asked, Can we refinance this loan and pay it off sooner and that would help us go full time sooner. As well as take off the burden of a mortgage payment off of the back of the congregation. He just looked at me. No answer. I thought to myself, This is really weird. Shady, really. After I am dead and gone, who knows if they will just keep on charging this congregation & pastor for a mortgage or for renting this place. It doesn't make any sense to me. I don’t understand why there has to be so much secrecy? Why not a mortgage statement? Why not an Escrow statement? Or at least give it out once a year?

Comment 3:  When we were in Lakewook, the NTCC had bought the property there and we were paying the mortgage payments.  One day the man that had sold the property came to see that church that was now using the building and house.  He was talking to Ralph St. Clair who was the pastor at the time.  He shared how he had given NTCC a good deal since it was going to be used for a church site.  They talked back and forth which lead Ralph St. Clair to discover that the payment was double the real mortgage payment. When asking the leaders about i,t he was told it cost to have the privilege to use one of NTCC's buildings and we are doing you a favor, so what are you complaining about and if it wasn't for the NTCC, you would have nothing.  As I listened to this exchange between the leaders and Ralph St. Clair I thought, "we have nothing". 

Forsake Not!!!

Why does the NTCC leadership recommend having so many services a week?  
Under what circumstances will a traveling NTCC minister refuse to preach revival services at your church?  I know the answers to both questions because I got them straight from the horses mouth, pun intended. 

For years NTCC ministers have been hanging on to one piece of scripture to justify their stance on having several services per week. They'll toss out this same scripture to compel you to attend each and every "revival" service being held in your local area.  They'll even toss it out to compel you to travel to the NTCC's annual conferences.  Which scripture might this be?  Drum role please....  "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together".   Ding, ding, ding, you got the right answer, you win the prize if you guessed Heb 10:25.  Of course it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out because I'll bet I've heard NTCC ministers quote that very scripture at least 2000 times and that my friend is a very conservation estimate.   So why, (with so many different scriptures in the bible) do you suppose that NTCC preachers focus so much attention on that one scripture???  That scripture may very well be the most frequently and commonly quoted Bible verse by every minister in the entire NTCC.  Why so much emphasis?  I know why and I got the answer straight from the horses mouth.  All you have to do is open your ears, open your brain, and listen. 

These NTCC ministers like to preach so much that they quite often run their mouths and open their hearts more than they probably should.  The reason NTCC ministers have been taught to hold so many services has little or nothing to do with Heb 10:25 and R.W. Davis, (the founder of the NTCC) made that very plain during conference and L.D. Jones made that very plain also.

In conference, with me sitting right there carefully listening, R.W. Davis told his pastors not to call Graham to state they were short on money if they weren't holding a full schedule of services each week.  Davis also said that the reason Pastors were short on money was because they were afraid to ask the people for more.  He said if they would hold the recommended number of services each week, (Thursday, Saturday, 2x on Sunday) and take up a offering each service and teach the people to give in the offerings, they should not be short on money. He DIDN'T say to hold more services to get people saved, he said, hold more services to MAKE MORE MONEY.  He even suggested taking up more than one offering per service if necessary and my current pastor at the time took that bait hook line and sinker.  He started taking up two offerings per service.  

L.D. Jones stated that he left Mayers church in Atlanta early and did not continue with revival because of this reason...  The church in Atlanta and more specifically Mayers wouldn't support him monetarily while he was there.   I was sitting right there when L.D. Jones made that statement.  So revival wasn't about saving souls because if it was, he would have stayed, money or no money.  Jones preaching for that church was "CONDITIONAL" on him getting paid, bottom line, plain and simple.  Having "so many" services a week isn't for the purpose of  maintaining your good old "salvation".  It's to raise more money for the church and the desires of the pastor, bottom line, end of story, plain and simple and Davis made that quite plain in conference.   

I have a very legitimate question.  How many services a week does it take to keep you saved?  2, 3, 4, 5????  And where are you getting your answer from in the bible?  Hebrews 10?  So I can take Hebrews 10 and convince you to attend as many services as I want you to and because Hebrews 10 doesn't give a specific number you are supposed to blindly follow my guidance?  And that is why so many NTCCers are broke and living from one paycheck to the next.  What happens every conference.  A push to raise pledge money and I could care less what Kekel says about being in the red every conference.  You NTCCers are victims of a con game and it's just that simple.  Your purpose in the NTCC is to provide NTCC pastors the means not to work on a real job, bottom line.  

Stanley Mayers, the pastor in the Atlanta church made this statement in church, during service and I quote, "I'm not working on no stinking Job" end of quote.  At the time he felt he was too good to work on a "stinkin" job because that is what he was taught by old RWD but you church members better work on a stinking job so you can support guys like him and his family in the stinkin NTCC.   Well guess what, I'm not under any circumstances supporting some STINKIN NTCC pastor.   If they need money then they need to go get a real "stinkin" job.  Five services a week my "stinkin" butt!!!!  If it takes 5 stinkin services a week to keep you saved, then Jesus never saved you in the first place.  

Being Too Blind, Proud Or Simply Not Having Enough Courage To Admit You Were Wrong

You could potentially drown and waste your entire life with the New Testament Christian Church.  Have you considered that?  Read on.  

Many people in the NTCC will either delay their inevitable departure from the church, or they simply will never leave at all for one of three reasons.   They are either psychologically blind, too proud or cowards; one of the three.  

I know this to be true.  Now for some of the newer folks, this rule may not totally apply but for people who have been around the NTCC for at least 10 to 15 years or more, this rule totally applies. You dogmatically preached to your family and friends insisting that the NTCC was the last great hope for mankind, and now that you know that it's anything but, you don't have the courage and or you can't put down your pride long enough to admit that you were wrong all along.  You are still sticking around because you can't bear the thought of your family, (who you dogged in the past because of your new found religious beliefs) asking you too many questions and wanting an explanation as to why you left the NTCC.  Your pride won't let you admit to your family and friends that you were wrong about the NTCC when they tried to tell you that all along.  Tell me I'm off the mark.   For that matter, most of you don't even have the courage to come on this blog to defend yourselves and or your church in a well thought out intelligent manner.   You are worried about what Mike Kekel might say from the pulpit when he learns that quote "his people" are frequenting this "ungodly" blog.  

If the NTCC is what you've been told, explain to me why Mr. Barnes left your church?  He was chosen by Davis and or the General Board.  Barnes was bragged on openly in conference by Davis himself.  What, they didn't pray enough before selecting him to be a pastor.  They weren't close enough to God to know that Barnes and Ashmore would  eventually leave the NTCC and basically take their entire congregations with them?  What about Denis; they didn't pray enough about him either?  How about Reed or Shunk?  Never touched base with the Lord on them either?  See, and this goes back to my original statement.  NTCC people are not in touch with God and the truth is, neither are you, but you are too proud, blind, or you don't have enough courage to admit that to yourself, your family and your friends.  

So you say, "Denis was a crook".  Ok fair enough, so then who placed him in such a high position of power within the NTCC prior to his double crossing deeds?  Someone with no insight?  Someone who didn't "pray" long enough about the appointment prior to making it?   What about Barnes or Ashmore?  Same story?  And don't you think it's ironic and coincidental that Ashmore flew the coop shortly after Davis' death.  So was Davis Ashmore's God all along or is Kekel a sorry leader or a combination of the two?  

You see, I don't have a problem asking these questions but you NTCC old timers don't have the courage to do the same.  Either that or you've been brainwashed into believing that if you do ask these legitimate questions, that you are being tricked by the quote "Devil" and entertaining evil thoughts.   What a joke.  What a complete joke.  

Anyway, does even one current NTCCer have the courage to come on this blog and defend your church?  Are you brainwashed into believing that God will defend your church and straighten me out on this one also?  I've been blogging on here for about the last 6 years and I've called your NTCC leaders every name in the book and I just keep getting blessed more and more since I started.   Davis was a conniving double standard crook. Kekel is the biggest hypocrite I've ever met.  Olson is a sorry piece of garbage who was no more than the creep who did his best to cover up Davis and Kekel's con games, double standards and womanizing practices.  And Ashmore?  Are you kidding me?  If you leave to go with him, you are doing no more than jumping straight out of a boiling pot in into a steaming kettle.   Ashmore only left the NTCC because he knew he'd never get a piece of the pie $$$ or because Davis was his God, period, point blank end of story.   What, it took Ashmore about 40 YEARS to figure out the NTCC was quote, "legalistic".   Are you kidding me?

I wonder how the heir to the NTCC gold mine is doing at his Catholic college?  The same college that you would have been blasted about from the pulpit if you would have sent your children there.  Someone who is currently in the NTCC needs to have the guts to come on here and tell me I'm lying.  If you are following Mike and Tanya Kekel you are one seriously lost individual.