9/20/2018

Proof: The New Testament Christian Church Got This One All Wrong. Their Chauvinistic Ways And Mindless Mistakes / Deliberate Dereliction Is Costing You A Lot Of Money, Prosperity And Stability.

In the KJV, Titus 2:4-5 reads: "That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, keepers at home…that the word of God be not blasphemed."

   Oikourgos is a compound based on the word oikos, "house" and ergos "to work" (associated, by folk etymology, with ouros "to guard"). It is translated as if it was a noun (many Greek nouns end in -os). However, the -os noun ending is masculine. Since in this context it is referring to women, the masculine ending would not be correct. Therefore we know that the word is not a noun. Instead, the ending is actually a different suffix: -os in its usage as an adjective-forming verbal suffix. This may seem like much ado about nothing, but it significantly alters the meaning, as you will see.
  The KJV translators saw the word oikourgos as a noun, and since it was describing a person, they took it to mean a certain type of person. Since oikos means "house" and urgos (a form of ouros) comes from a root meaning "to keep", they translated it in the KJV as "keepers at home".

   Later translators confused the meaning even further, believing that the lexical meaning of "keep" in that sense was that of "to stay". 

  So what does the phrase translated "keeper at home" really mean? I’ll get to that in a moment. First, we must consider the ramifications of the mistranslation.

  Hundreds of thousands of Christians, reading the KJV and some newer versions, have taken the misrendered phrase "keeper at home" to be equivalent to the modern word "homemaker." Dozens if not hundreds of Christian books, weblogs, articles, radio interviews, etc. have used the phrase "keeper at home" in their titles. They often misunderstand the verse to mean that all Christian women should be "homemakers". The Conservative Mennonite church has actually made a doctrine out of the mistranslation; they teach that married women (even those who do not have children) should not work "outside the home" or "off the farm". They claim to have "found" this doctrine in Titus 2:5, in the phrase "keepers at home".

  So, first, what oikourgos does not mean: It does not mean "homemaker" or "housewife" in the modern sense, as some mistakenly believe it does. 

  Nor does it mean "stayer at home". It does not mean that women should "stay at home" and must not be involved in external matters or take any work out of the home.
 Now that you know what oikourgos does NOT mean, we are free to discuss what it does mean. As stated above, the word is a descriptive word, not a noun.

  Oiko-, as you should remember from the above explanation, means house. The form -urgos, a form of ouros, means "to keep". In the case of compound words, it means "taking care to keep something (in good condition)".

  The entire word, oikourgos, then means "mindful (or careful) to keep their houses in good condition". Why? "That the word of God be not blasphemed!" The verse is saying that keeping your house clean, orderly, and in repair is a good witness for the Gospel. 

  So you see,  this admonition means something totally different than many Christians believe it does. It has absolutely nothing to do with home economic roles, and everything to do with "public relations" for the Gospel. A disorderly, poorly kept home conveys a lowlife feeling, and speaks poorly for the faith. 

  The oikourgos misrendering ("keepers at home") seems primarily confined to the English language. In Spanish, the SBRV version (which is to Spanish what the KJV is to English) renders the Greek word as que tengan cuidado de la casa ("that they care about the state of the house"), a translation far more accurate than the KJV’s "keepers at home".

  There is no Biblical support whatsoever for the doctrine, held by Conservative Mennonites and certain others, that women must stay at home or on the farm, and not work outside the so-called "domestic sphere". The virtuous woman, in Proverbs 31, is described as doing eleven things "outside the home". She is involved in agriculture and business, and is even politically active (in Hebrew idiom, the "gates" are a synecdoche for political affairs).
   So now you know…the REST of the story.

138 comments:

Anonymous said...

I worked for many years while in the NTCC in Washington, married, and they cashed my tithe check, my husband never got the nudge, "brother, your wife should not be working" So I guess you could say, they liked my tithe check and thought in their minds that she is sinning, but I will cash her check anyway". I always thought that this practice was strange that they would preach over the pulpit women should not work and then cash my check, whatever.....Money, money, money, it's all about the money...

Chief said...

You better believe it's all about the money and at this point, anyone who thinks otherwise is a dummy. RWD said it himself, "All that matters is money and numbers". That is a direct quote from RWD. Sure he gave it his best attempt to justify the statement but his statement was exactly what he meant, no more no less. If you can't give money to that dudes organization, you are no good to him, and a guy like that can take his money hungry, control freak ways and stick them where the sun don't shine. I've lost all respect for him because now I see him for exactly what his is. A money grubbing, double standard, control freak, blow hard, haughty taughty, conniving, non caring, nepotistic, inconsiderate, abusive, chippy cheat swindler and huckster.

Did I forget anything? And those are his good qualities. NO RESPECT for that guy.

Chief said...

I can't stand someone who lives for nothing more than to take advantage of his quote, "brothers and sisters". RWD, Kekel and Olson are at the bottom of the bucket in my book. I'm sure it doesn't matter to them how I feel and I wouldn't expect it to, but that is the way I feel about those con artists. I disrespect them openly to show people that they have no need to fear those creeps. I've been doing it for almost five years now and my life just gets better every day. So it seems that the more I disrespect RWD, Kekel and Olson, the more blessed I get.

Chief said...

Without getting into details, yesterday was one of the greatest days of my life without doubt. I've been so blessed since I left the NTCC, words can't even describe. Bud, if this is what being curse is all about, then give me all I can get and you can have that NTCC mess because I want no part of it. By the grace of God, this weekend should be a great one. I figured I'd give God a little glory on this one because good grief, my life has been good for the last few years. Way better than it ever was while I was in the NTCC. No comparison. If you care to know more details, just call me. At least in some areas, I don't like posting my personal information on this blog.

DS or GS said...

Glad to hear it Chief...I may give you a call (but, I may not). I always like hearing one more good report, and there are always plenty of them out there.

Greg

Chief said...

I left a post on your blog Greg. Did it go to your spam maybe?

Chief said...

Greg said...

I may give you a call (but, I may not).

Chief said...

I guess both possibilities exist. I may be watching football if you decide to or elect not to call, (but, I may not). LOL.

DS or GS said...

Jeff,

I don't know what the problem is. I know to check the spam folder. As you can see on Deb's Blog, one of your messages got through, and other people have posted. I just checked my settings again, and other than me moderating everything, everything else is allowed.

Gregory

Chief said...

Greg, I don't know either but I've attempted to post 3 responses to your "infidel" question and another test and none of them made it. These were responses that took some time to type. When there is no comment moderation present, there is no wondering or guessing because it pops up immediately and if it doesn't, there is no doubt in anyone's mind, (if they've ever moderated one of these Google blogs) that it more than likely went to the spam folder. Seeing your post pop right up is immediate conformation that, (yeah, what I typed is there) not, (I wonder how long this will take to post, or will it ever). Just my thoughts Greg.

DS or GS said...

I understand. Sorry about your comments. They have not been going into my spam folder. Guaranteed they are not making it to my blog.

I get email notifications when someone posts a comment, and I check my email a few times per day, so everything gets posted in a timely manner.

Comment moderation will remain on, because sometimes people post comments about all the women Pastor Davis has had affairs with, naming names, by pulling these personal testimonies off of the NTCC Support Group

Not sure why your Blog doesn't have this problem, but Deb's does.

Our Blog was even hacked a few days ago, and I had to reconstitute it, thus the different appearance from what it was.

Again sorry, especially since I am always interested in what you have to say.

In view of the above, do you think I should disable comment moderation?

Gregory

DS or GS said...

Jeff,

FYI, I don't know if you noticed, but one of your test comments made it to the Blog and was posted. Don't know if this helps.

Gregory

DS or GS said...

I took off comment moderation on Deb's Blog.

Gregory

Chief said...

Cool, I appreciate you giving that some consideration Greg.

DS or GS said...

Yeah, I guess your worth 1.75 hours of consideration. Plus, I don't have to check the blog as much now. Thanks for your input, and for everything else you do for us all.

Gregory

Chief said...

Greg said...

Yeah, I guess your worth 1.75 hours of consideration.

Chief said...

LOL!!! Man I didn't think I was worth that much. Maybe .075 hours of consideration if any at all. That's alright though because botta boom botta bing I was able to put a few comments on your blog just like that. I like your setup also and the way you can respond to a particular comment vs just the entire thread. Take it easy. Time to watch some college football. Doesn't get much better than that.

Chief

Anonymous said...

So, Davis said " all that matters is money and numbers" surely this was in bible school or just to ministers, he certainly would not have said it over the pulpit. That would resonate to the congregation, hey, the NTCC ain't about God, its about money and how many people we can bring in. Wow, that is something to hear, I wish I had know he said that some 16 years ago when I first joined this cult/church.

Chief said...

Davis said that openly in conference, while preaching in front of at least 1000 people. Sure he did his best to justify the statement talking about church bills, buildings, expansion, etc, but it's a crazy statement for a preacher to make. "All that matters is money and numbers".

Sure that's all that matters when your daughter is spoiled rotten needing a new $650,000 house because the $500,000 wasn't good enough. Also at the time Davis made the statement, his grandson was somewhere near the start of high school at the cost of approx $20,000 a year for four years. Yeah the only thing that matters is money when your house and your daughters house is like a museum inside and BMWs and Cadillacs are the standard.

The only thing that ever mattered to Davis was money and he also openly stated (and I heard him with my own ears) that he prayed to be a millionaire so that's clearly where his heart has been at all along. R.W. Davis is nothing but a money grubber who cons folks out of their money and the proof is him always tossing out innuendos about the new Rolex he would like or the Gun he would like or the Cuckoo clock he would like or the knife or sword he would like and he always expects someone else to buy if for him.

He's made a practice of conning people out of their money for about 50 years now and he is the lowest of the low down. R.W. Davis is scum, dirt, sorry, and a con artist and I ain't tired yet. With all the information about the NTCC leadership on this blog, Don and Anges, and Greg and Deb Shunk's blog, you got to be a blind idiot if you are still giving your money to the NTCC. But guess what, that's not my problem. A sucker is born everyday and people love to give their money away to some church leader con artist. Not me.

Double Ugh said...

I remember when they were building that house.

"Sure that's all that matters when your daughter is spoiled rotten needing a new $650,000 house because the $500,000 wasn't good enough."

It's funny...I remember Tanya saying that she is going to have a smaller kitchen now and less cabinet space...as if she is downgrading!!!

Was that supposed to make me feel better? "Well, they are building a new house, but going smaller..."

Right...and then she talked about the amazing granite countertops and shower walls! Do you have any idea how much granite is?

And they still have the nerve to take up special offerings for a "missionary's vehicle" or a "trip" from the church member's pockets...all the while keeping their pockets lined for their lavish lifestyle.

I wonder if they have heated floors too like the Gesang's.

Anonymous said...

Anon said "So, Davis said all that matters is money and numbers".

Just about every conference R W Davis would get up and say I can judge whats going on in your by just looking at your books,(General fund ledgers). He would assess the spirituality of your church by how much finances were coming in. Forget the fact that somebody really gave their life to God or that God really healed someone. Which, btw, is more than what goes on in the "Elite Graham church" these days. Which is under the control of the most righteous, sovereign, holy, the greatest man of gawd there ever was, M C Kekel!

Chief said...

Anonymous said...

or that God really healed someone

Chief said...

I'm not sure when that's happened in the NTCC. I'm not sure about any spirituality existing in the NTCC. The system is broke and the members are (knowingly or not) a part of that system. Anymore I'm very skeptical of any spirituality existing in the NTCC and I'll tell you why. With healings basically non existent in the NTCC, I'm supposed to believe that God gave everyone the gift of tongues? I don't buy it and I don't think God is in favor of hundreds of people faking a spiritual give whether they are doing it knowingly or not.

Chief said...

Someone went on Robert Briggs fund raising website and claimed that Robert was healed of cancer the very night before he died. I personally read their statement. Whoever it was made a big claim about Robert being healed the day before he died. That my friends is called being fake and I'm telling it just like it is. So therefor I have serious doubts about any spiritual gifts existing in the NTCC and once again I"m just being real. I'm not living in a fantasy world anymore. Life is real and If I'm to trust a Christian leader they better be real also. They can stand there and go, "Eashabime, shalabazon, bo-shubi shalabaree" all they want but that doesn't translate into spirituality in my book because the NTCC has proven to me that they are full of false prophets and that can be proven. If someone would have healed Robert Briggs, that could have been proven also, but Ashmore was nowhere to be found but I'll guarantee you could have found him out there praying in "tongues" somewhere.

If you ever find yourself real sick and in need a divine healing, you better look outside the NTCC to find a real man of God or get a real good doctor, one or the other. The other option is to pray to God yourself and what happens, happens because I'm sure Robert Briggs did his share of praying. Folks, WAKE UP!!!

Now that's being real.

Anonymous said...

Chief, we all know that Briggs and his family where praying probably constantly, as would most people even people who don't know God pray when they have been given a Terminal illness diagnosis. So, the fact that not one minister went down there to whatever state he was in tells me something, they did not care about this man either. SO SAD.

Anonymous said...

Chief, I also remember a relatively young woman getting a terminal breast cancer dx, married to one of the licensed ministers in Graham, I remember they never mentioned her in services, I though this odd, this is maybe 5 years ago, she has since passed on sadly and I just felt like they kind of didn't mention her situation and prayer never went forth regarding her. I remember seeing her in service with NO HAIR, after her chemo and thought, why don't they say lets pray for this sister. She was a very sweet lady too.

Don and Ange said...

New Testament Christian Churches of America, Inc. 2013 Seminary Curriculum:

Cook the Books 101 - DiFrancesco BS

How to make others do something you've never done yourself 101 - M.C. Kekel BS

How to win friends and influence people through public humiliation 101 -M.C. Kekel BS

House Cleaning and Interior Decorating 101 - Tanya Kekel BS (This class will only be taught to special chosen and faithful tithe payers with Strong Backs and Weak Minds on site at the Kekel Mansion).

How to conduct yourself when in the presence of a Millionaire 101 - JO (Joe Olson) BS

How to trim the split ends on your favorite wig 101 - Verna Davis BS

How to sucker people out of their life earnings 101 - Rodger Davis DDS, PHD, BS

How to spend OPM (Other People's Money) right under their noses without them objecting 101 - Rodger Davis DDS, PHD, BS

How to snag a teen bride 101 - M.C. Kekel BS, Assistant instructor - Phil Kinson BS

How to turn a Not for Profit religious organization into a multi-million dollar real estate empire using OSM (Other Sucker's Money) 101 - Rodger Davis DDS, PHD, BS

Chief said...

There you go again Don and Ange, Ha, ha, ha, ha. That's a good one. LOL.

Ashmore 101: How to heal a headache and menstrual cramps but avoid attempting to heal cancer.

Oberhauser 101: How to get rid of folks who aren't interested in your sorry leadership.

Mayers 101: How to treat women in your church like complete crap. How to be a bully pulpiteer.

Kekel 101: How to learn to think that you are better than everyone else and dog your fellow ministers.

Tanya 101: How to spend up all the money in the world on useless furniture.

The Kekel's 101: How to use your fellow ministers and church members by having their wives come to clean your house pay or no pay.

RWD 101: How to tell tall tales about spiritual experiences and how to be a fake.

Ashmore 101: How to be a charismatic creep.

Olson 101: How to run around with your nose up someones butt, (specifically RWD's) How to be a kiss up and a suck up and a man pleaser. How to be a boring preacher and how to put people to sleep during church service.

L.D. Jones 101: How to do everything your are told without rocking the boat just so you can advance and be a yes man. How to turn a blind eye to your fellow black brothers being called the "N" word while being racially insulted in many other ways as well. Bro Bellamy wrote all about it and he is not the first one.

Kekel 101: How to lie and say that certain rules didn't exist when everyone knows they did and then change your tune and write, "Ain't Misbehaven" and admit that some of them did exist while throwing your father in law under the bus.

Are you NTCC people actually still naive enough (with all this information) to believe that your organization is even remotely spiritual? Boy there are suckers in this world.

Chief said...

Anonymous said....

So, the fact that not one minister went down there to whatever state he was in tells me something, they did not care about this man either.

Chief said...

Of course I don't know who when down there and who didn't but with all these supposed "Men of God" in the NTCC, you mean to tell me that not one has the gift of healing? And that has been my whole point. They are fake and you are right Anonymous, they don't care because they certainly don't show it by their actions. Oh, I'm sorry, I'm wrong, they care. They'll try to find another husband for Robert Briggs wife and it might even be one of his so called friends.

And folks can't say that is far fetched because the NTCC has a history of doing that kind of stuff.

Chief said...

Just face it NTCC folks. Were all got took. We may have had good hearts and good intentions but when you follow a con artist, you simply got took. Many of us thought RWD was God's man and I'm now convinced that nothing could be further from the truth. So if you are still part of the NTCC, you better think again if you think you are doing something for the Lord. Based on the evidence that I have, you are not. You might just as well be part of any other club or in this case any other cult. There is too much evidence to deny it. Some folks like being a part of a cult and that's their prerogative but it's sad when kids are required to be involved.

The NTCCs system is not Gods system so therefor you are serving man not God in the NTCC. I'm convinced that's the case.

Anonymous said...

Wow, I did not even think of that, if they marry off this widow quickly then they will not need to look at this poor widow struggling, because at this time, I am sure she cannot work she just lost her husband to cancer and she most likely hasn't worked for years. This should be a wake up call to all women married to men in the NTCC, if they get sick or worse yet die, you will be in financial ruin and the only people you can count on will be family, which you most likely have cut ties with, do you see the vicious circle you are in with this church. Sick sick sick...

Chief said...

Just because you think you are serving God doesn't mean that's the case. Jehovah Witness folks "think" they are serving God, Catholics, Seventh Day Adventist, and the list goes on. So do Muslims and they are convinced. So what makes the NTCC any different? When you are following money hungry crooks like Kekel and Davis, you are not serving God. When you follow someone who is a male chauvinist pig like RWD who misinterprets scriptures, you are not serving God. Kekel says it's a sin for women to work and I categorically proved him wrong because he categorically has Titus 2 wrong. If all these other religions can be wrong, so can you NTCC people, and you are too proud and haughty if you think otherwise.

Don and Ange said...

Somebody said, "They'll try to find another husband for Robert Briggs wife...."

DNA say,

Oh, you KNOW that is true. The really sick part is that they were already scouting while the man was still fighting for his life.

Look what they did to Devonshire, standing him up in conference for all the ladies to look at just because his wife took off for a while because she wanted to break the vasectomy rule and have a child.

GOOD FOR HER! It worked! She kept her husband and has a son.

But davis was doing his all to break-up that marriage, parading Devonshire around like a piece of meat while he was still married.

What do you think they did about the wives of both Hasty and Briggs? They've been working out their schemes to match make these ladies BECAUSE THE ntcc DOES NOT WANT TO BECOME FINANCIALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY WIDOWS.

The borg leaders are sick, sick, sick.

And they are also looking at the kids, specifically Briggs' young daughter. davis likes 'em young and has made the moves on more than one young girl with no father to defend her. It's a ntcc pattern. olson looks the other way as he shuffles the papers on his desk, pushes the glasses up his nose and says, "You need to find another church."

ntcc is more worldly and fleshly than a bar or brothel. They dress their sin in robes of religion and "hide behind the pulpit".

Anonymous said...

Who is Mr Hasty? I understand he has passed away, {from this blog}is his widow married again? please tell me about this situation. I don't remember ever hearing about this man. So let me understand this, the NTCC was trying to find a new wife for this man since his wife left him.

Anonymous said...

Chief, they dress their sin in the robes of "matronly clothing for women and suits only men". The look is everything for the NTCC, it isn't about the heart, it's about "the look".

Chief said...

Anonymous asked...

Who is Mr Hasty? I understand he has passed away, is his widow married again? please tell me about this situation.

Chief wrote...

None of here would fully know about his situation. I don't think any of us can truthfully say they know for a "fact" that the NTCC leadership has made an attempt to find a mate for his wife "since he died" so that she can remarry. What we can say for a fact is that the NTCC leadership has a long history of trying to get people remarried who have lost their spouse (for whatever reason) in the NTCC.

Parading Devonshire around like a piece of meat for all the woman to see was one seriously sick display of mismanaged matchmaking NTCC style. That was an absolutely stupid thing to do and whoever did it is a stupid idiot and a seriously insensitive jerk prick to Devonshire's wife. I don't blame the woman one bit for not wanting to deal with the NTCCs dickheaded ways.

Anonymous said...

They probably "parade" the women around in Graham too, except they all look so frumpy, but, the younger the better.....

DS or GS said...

Remarriage is the only option for a divorced NTCC woman with kids, or a widowed NTCC mother that is destitute upon the death of her husband.

This is another cruel NTCC policy. These woman don't have a choice, and in the case of the widow, they don't even have time to grieve. What a disservice to the memory of the dearly departed.

I can't imagine wanting to get remarried if Deb died. At least not for a long time (if ever).

Gregory the Foolish and Unlearned

Chief said...

Greg you need to get saved and pray through. Whatever it takes for the program of GAWD and it that means you get married three weeks after your spouse dies to your wifes best friend, then glory be to GAWD. Praise the Lawd, give Gawd the glory and lift up your hands.

That was a foolish and unlearned statement Greg. I don't care if you have to remarry one day after your spouse dies. It's all for the program of GAWD. Them servicemen got to get fed or they'll stop giving their money; don't you know that Greg? The NTCC leadership will be planning who your wife's replacement will be during your wifes funeral. Praise Gawd.

Anonymous said...

Somehow, they never managed to marry off Mrs. Espinoza, the nicest lady by the way, she is still widowed and working at Walmart, so they don't always succeed. Can't say I know for sure they tried, but, I wouldn't be surprised, she has a large family of people in the NTCC, she is in Graham.

Chief said...

Anonymous said...

Somehow, they never managed to marry off Mrs. Espinoza, the nicest lady by the way, she is still widowed and working at Walmart.

Chief said...

Of course. She is an upper middle aged woman which certainly hinders her marketability. Hey, I'm just being real so don't come on here and get all offended. Not only that, what kind of shape is she in? Big, small? If she is not married yet, and she is still part of the NTCC, and she even wants to get married, there just ain't no hard up brother who is that interested in her and she has lost much of her appeal and once again I'm just being real. Some of those brothers are so hard up it's unbelievable and I've witnessed it first hand and not only that, again, she may not want to get married.

You best believe this; if she did wanted to get married and she had any appeal whatsoever, there is a frustrated brother for her, I can promise you that. She probably just doesn't want to get married or she might be a little bit too far up there in years.

Anonymous said...

Out of all the "men of gawd" that has been mentioned...I hardly hear about Malone. He is an enabler too and Kekel's "do boy".
Kekel has called him out in front of everybody and he still does whatever Kekel says.

He seems so fake when he opens up service and preaches...and teaches. Anyone else know about Malone?

Edward said...

As most of you know, I have not posted to this blog in almost a year. I had decided if they leave me alone then I would leave them alone; I would try to recover and make my way in God. All would be forgiven and I would let sleeping dogs lay. But for some reason out of the blue Rev. Kekel sent me an email YESTERDAY! Almost a year after not hearing anything from him. I will post his email and my response below.

This is very long and I will have to break it up into smaller segments

If anyone remaining in NTCC read this post and my future posts, (and there will be many future posts) understand that Rev. Kekel stirred all this up. I had decided to leave it alone. I am not the devil that they will try to make me out to be. He instigated this with his email.

Bro. Bellamy

Edward said...

Rev. Kekel wrote...

Hi,

I wasn't really going to reply but, no offense, you are so mixed up, I thought you should know the truth wether you accept it or not.

Here was your last email:

Rev. Kekel, I just wanted to give you another email address. I can still receive emails at the other one, but since you were having so much trouble I will give you another one. (I took my email from this post, because it is my work email, but the rest of this is exactly what he wrote.) I did not intend to give you another email address, because I was beginning to move on, but I read this message and wanted to give you a chance to answer some of the questions. I don’t understand why some of your emails got through and others did not.
Also, it seems in this message what you are saying is that regardless of how someone feels that they should still continue to be a part of NTCC. But how can anyone continue to be a part of an organization that tells you IF YOU DON’T LIKE IT LEAVE? But please do not get side tracked with that question, because the answer is, we are told to leave. So we are not cowards as you have said. (I ask you to be brave enough to leave Graham and pioneer a church.) This also shows that you think that becaused someone leaves NTCC that they have left God. Sir, NTCC is NOT God; NTCC has just as many problems in it as any other church. I am closer to God now than I have been in years without the spiritual bondage and pressure to work to show that I am saved that has come from NTCC. And this is not compromising santification.
Another place you wrote that we do not know about sacrifice. You are the one that does not know about sacrifice. How many years have we been out in the work of God and given our last to pay the bills of the church? How many years have you done that? We sarcificed having kids to be in servicemen’s work. Did you? We sacrificed time to be with our wives to go soul winning only to be told in conference that we were not working hard enough and smart enough.
Again I do not want to get too side tracked from my original questions about why you specifically pointed out Rev. Curry as going with Denis when you knew he did not and he was told he could go to Gainesville to start a church by Pastor Davis? Also, why Rev. Jones was treated so bad; this is straight from his lips to me at my house. Why Rev. DeBlanc has been treated so bad in the past. He also came to my house and stated this and so many others share the same story. You preached in that conference in February 2004 in Arizona that Rev. Curry needed to apologize. You have not apologized to him for accusing him falsely, and I know this because I just spent a few days at his house in Florida.

It is understandable that you would be confused given your influences, so if, as you say, you truly want to sort it out and get answers, here they are. Paragraph 1 of your email was introductory and needs no comment. So lets take paragraph 2.

The answer, as you say, is NOT "we are told to leave". The answer is YES, if you love the brethren, no matter how you feel you move forward, suffer wrong, and others lovingly suffer YOUR wrongs. Gripers and complainers are told that they can leave, in reply to their critical attitude. NTCC is not God, and doesn't claim to be, and you know it. Either way, just because you don't agree with something, or someone doesn't meet your efficiency requirements, it doesn't give anyone the right to go around like Israelites complaining and infecting others. If you don't like something? Well if you don't like the food at McDonalds, go to Burger King, it's that simple. No one is just out of the blue saying "leave!". "We don't want anyone here, we want you to leave!" That would be crazy, and anyone who takes it that way is super-sensitive. Like the Hoppers; they tried to say they were "forced out" and that's FAR from the truth. They simply wanted to seize power, and God smacked them down.

Edward said...

Rev. Kekel wrote (continued)...

NTCC neither teaches nor holds:
*That NTCC is God
*That leaving NTCC is to leave God
*That NTCC has no problems or is perfect
*That you are saved by WORKS

Don't even go there, and use these buzz-words and cliches to justify yourself; because you know we don't teach such things. You say that because of resentment. Expecting you to work and do what is the DUTY of your office, is not about salvation, it's about fulfilling responsibility and the calling you claim to have. So you are going to tell me that now, you have quit working and you are thus fulfilling your call? Real workers, pressure themselves, and don't need supervision to motivate them. Only lazy, entitled people resent being told 'get to work'. Workers tell themselves, "I don't work enough!" This is basic leadership 101.

It is not an NTCC teaching, but a simple and biblical fact, that if you were right, you wouldn't have to depart from among us, even though opinions differ. When and if one's departure is followed by actions that are not according to Godly love, and include collaboration and affiliation with known enemies of the church and haters of the people you said were your friends? Then you have left God, the proof is in the pudding."He that doeth not righteousness is not of God" (I John). It's not that people are "with us" it's what they DO that proves their spiritual disposition.

The biggest problem with NTCC, is people, and all churches, have people. But no way does NTCC have as much baggage as the worldly churches that are out there. If you were close to God, you wouldn't have gone on Jeff's hate-blog and reviled us. That is not consistent with walking in the steps of Jesus, as Peter said. (I Peter 2:22-23) It is not suffering wrong, if so be that you were done wrong in some way; which by me, you weren't. I don't believe you were done wrong by anyone. If you were closer to God, you would despise Collins' blog and the ungodly filth that is put on there.

Edward said...

Rev. Kekel wrote (continued)...

SACRIFICE
Show me where I wrote that you (the brethren in general in the sense you are stating this) don't know about sacrifice? I'll admit that I don't, because we Americans don't know about sacrifice. All that I have given, is not enough. It pales next to the sacrifices of others who have died for their causes. We haven't suffered yet unto blood, and have no right to allow our hands to hang down and our knees to be feeble. (Heb 12) We have no excuse for fainting when we are rebuked. All of us are blessed and well supplied, including you. But I can plainly see that you have no clue about me; you judge me by what grumblers have said about me. Are you aware of what my Mom and I went through, making it through the 60's? Where were you when I DID give my last dollars for the work of God? Tell me. This was before Curry and Denis, and definitely before you. There was no Graham back then, and I have dutifully gone everywhere God has asked me to go and have been successful. To try to say I don't know about sacrifice, is a testimony of your ignorance.

As for Servicemen's work
You didn't have to go into Servicemen's work, it was your CHOICE to forbear raising a family. If it was God, why would you complain? And yes, I fully followed the teachings of Pastor regarding that. He taught that if you ever PLAN to go into that work, you couldn't with kids. And, that you should know that your ministry was established before you made the decision; he never made it for us, or pressured us about having or not having kids. He didn't teach that you should have a vasectomy, Debbie Shunk's first husband promoted that; some silly preachers made vasectomies out to be some kind of "noble deed", not Pastor.

We waited until we were married 8 years, and my ministry was established before making that CHOICE. God called me to Administrative work, it was not my choice, and only he that doeth the will of God will abide forever. Curry's daughter helped the Hoppers, perpetuating the lie that I only had my job because of who I married. Sadly, sadly mistaken.

So you sacrificed time with your wife in Servicemen's work? I thought such sacrifice would be for God, not for comparing your sacrifice with someone else's sacrifice. How much soul winning did you do in Germany? Wasn't she with you? If you had no time for her, then you were soul winning at least 40 hours a week. Are you telling me you were so busy that you had no down time there? I have 3 jobs, 24/7, and you want to say that I don't sacrifice any time? What are you thinking? I gave almost a month's pay to start the first work in Germany. And Hawaii, and Panama, etc. How is your World Missions record?

Even in my sometimes unbearable, extremely high-pressure schedule, I always find time for my family; no I don't find it, I MAKE it, and I don't resent the time consumed for God. Ministry has to be your LIFE, not an invasion of your privacy and a thief of your time. Otherwise, it isn't really ministry (service) it is drudgery in which you shall faint.

Edward said...

You really don't seem to know anything about sacrifice of time, or money, judging by your statements. I never got in debt, because I didn't WANT to. No one HAS to go into debt, no matter what is expected of them. I sacrificed to save; I sacrificed to GIVE, sometimes a month or two's wages, for missions and other church causes. I have spent all kinds of time and money to develop, pioneer, research, etc., over many years, that the work of God may grow and be better; that brethren may have better work environments; I work in His work on my OWN time, in addition to HIS time. If you had sacrificed so much time in Germany or Ohio, you would have had people, and people mean a Pastor has the finances he needs. This is the most basic principle of church finance; I Cor. 9 or any kind of finance for that matter. The Organization owes us nothing, we owe it to God to build it knowing He is in this great work, and that we eat from the flock we feed, not grants from headquarters. (I Cor. 9) If we haven't reaped, then we haven't sown.

I am in the work of God, and in His will for me. According to I Cor. 12, He places us in the church as is pleasing to Him. All the Hoppers and their buddies make the great Corinthian mistake; disdaining others because they ARE not or DO not, the same as they do. It lends a sense of spiritual pride, that makes people to defraud, yea hate, their brethren. "Well, he hasn't done this or that, so I have become greater; I am above that person now." Paul called them babies and carnal. These have racial issues; pride issues; work issues; social status issues; class envy. Now tell me that these types will go to God's heaven...?

NEXT
The truth about paragraph 4

Edward said...

The above post was also made by Rev. Kekel. I forgot to put Rev. Kekel wrote...

Bro. Bellamy's reply to Rev. Kekel...

Rev. Kekel,

I wish I could say that it is good to hear from you, but it is not. I really do not know why you have waited almost an entire year to respond to my email. I say respond to the email, because you have not really answer any questions that I had, you just decided to degrade me like you did to most preachers in the past during your preaching, and you also decided to give some history of what you have done. I asked you not to get side tracked with those things and answer the other questions, but you have not. I say that it is not good to hear from you, because I had already prayed and forgiven any wrongs that were done to me by NTCC as a whole. I also prayed and asked God to forgive me if I took any incorrect actions on Jeff’s blog. I have not posted anything on Jeff’ blog in almost a year. Here I am trying to restore my relationship with God and be what he wants me to be and you send me this JUNK. Sir, you were NOT motivated by God. You should have just left me alone. I have not scratched the surface on what has happened to me. But you will find out… If you care to read my response to this email then go to Jeff’s blog, because you have awakened something that you should have left alone. Maybe that was your purpose. I have seen that NTCC always needs an enemy to continue to stir up the “faithful.” You do not know what you have done!!! You will probably tell them how much of a devil I am, but it is you that have caused this. I had left you all alone and you should have done the same to me. Don’t lie on me and say that I am being motivated by the devil. I AM BEING MOTIVATED BY YOU!!!

It would have been better for you to have just responded that we agree to disagree and you hope to see us in heaven, but this shows really what you are all about, and it is not a care and concern for others. It is your pride and ego!!!

Much, much, much more to follow...

Bro. Bellamy "so mixed up"

Chief said...

Kekel said...

If you were closer to God, you would despise Collins' blog and the ungodly filth that is put on there.

Chief said...

Anyone who is close to God would despise Kekel and his abusive and manipulating ways not the least of which is having other men's wives clean his stinking house while his spoiled wife points out all the places to clean. Kekel doesn't know the first thing about God. He is a user and he doesn't know the first thing about solid sound leadership. He knows how to manipulate people and he knows how to use people. No good leader on this planet would advocate having their "business" subordinates cleaning their house for pay or not pay. The NTCC wants to call their organization a business when it's convenient but treat their organization like a "plantation" rather than a business when its convenient. Kekel is not man of God. Kekel is a man of himself and he is selfish.

Chief

Chief said...

Kekel the con artist creep abusive manipulative jerk wrote...

We have no excuse for fainting when we are rebuked.

Chief wrote...

Neither I or anyone else has any reason to put up with or even listen to a rebuking from some self appointed blow hard con artist who is a hypocrite and a deceiver who has no business being in charge of anyone say no less a church. That includes Kekel, RWD, Olson, Jones, Ashmore, Wright, Kinson and all the rest of the NTCC leadership. Try to rebuke me and I'll tell you to stick your rebuking where the sun don't shine and I'll call you a "generation of vipers" and a "hypoctite" because the NTCC leadership is not different than the Scribes and Pharisees who Jesus reviled in his day.

Edward said...

I have a lot to say regarding many of the questions that have been asked on this blog. I have alot of answers that I didn't want to bring up or reveal, but now Rev. Kekel has provoked me. I tried to just to stay out of it.

For those of you who were wondering about Rev. and Sister Brill, (yes, this is Rev. Olson's daughter and son-in-law.) They left NTCC a month before I did; approximately March 2011. This is the story behind his leaving.

When Rev. Brill was in the Army, he was diagnosed with cancer. They did surgery and he was medically discharged, but he has been very sick through out the years. They have now found out that the procedure that was used to remove his cancer will eventually take his life. It makes even getting a common cold life threatening. He had become very sick while Pastoring in Amarillo, Texas. The doctors told him that he needed to stop most activities if he wanted to live. This was around conference time and the doctor also told him that he could get worse if he traveled. He told Pastor Davis that he was not coming to conference, because he was sick. They called him and chewed him out, saying, because Sister. Brill was Rev. Olson's daughter that it would be a bad testimony if they missed conference. So Rev. Brill went back to the doctor and the doctor strongly advised him not to go. So Rev. Brill sent Sister Brill to conference and he stayed hom. During conference they called him and chewed him out. So he got on a plane and came to conference.. And just like the doctor predicted he became very sick. He then realized, like all of us, is they DO NOT care about anyone, but themselves,their pride, and their ego. They put his life in danger for show.

Much, much, much more to follow...

Rev. Kekel, you never know what someone knows, so it would have been better to kept your mouth closed.

Bro. Bellamy "so mixed up"

Chief said...

Bro Bellamy wrote...

I also prayed and asked God to forgive me if I took any incorrect actions on Jeff’s blog.

Jeff wrote...

Bro Bellamy,

I am not double minded about the stance that I take concerning the NTCC. I said that because (respectfully) I don't think you should be either. Jesus didn't hesitate to verbally slam the Scribes and Pharisees (who were just like the NTCC leaders currently are) and Jesus saw fit to have his statements concerning the Scribes and Pharisees chronicled for trillions of people to read. So did Jesus ask God to forgive him for highlighting the Pharisees hypocrisy? Of course not Bro Bellamy and I'm being real. There is nothing fake or manipulative about what I'm writing.

I have witnessed and read or heard the witness of hundreds and hundreds of people identifying the blatant abuses and double standards that clearly exist within the NTCC. Kekel the con artist can't deny that his son is attending a Catholic college and you know good an well based on all the things that I've heard RWD teach that it is a double standard. Kekel attending a music festival and admitting to it was a double standard. Grant wearing shorts to play basketball and tight pants for football was a double standard and Mike Kekels excuses for all that stink. Olson's explanation for the land deal was a flat out insult. The feeble and simple minded may buy off on Kekel's explanation for all that stuff but I don't because I spent enough time around the NTCC to know better. The whole class system / nepotism in the NTCC is a mockery to Christianity. Kekel is nothing but a con artist hypocrite plain and simple and he is "ANYTHING" but a man of God. His ministry / job ain't been directed by God, it was directed by his father in law RWD and RWD is an abusive money hungry hypocrite who uses people to buy him guns, knives and cars and everything else he can dream up.

Chief said...

I'd like to redirect the Bro Brill testimony to the front page and I'll title it, "The Plot Thickens". I'd also request that you'd allow me to edit for spelling and grammar as it is clear that you typed in haste. LOL. I understand; been there done that.

Chief

Edward said...

I understand what you are saying and the reasons for it. At the end of the day. I just wanted to make sure that my hands/soul was clean. Remember I was responding to him for something I wrote to him almost a year ago. It has ticked me off that he has waited so long... If he cared why wait until now? I know they do not care, but it is just another example. He told us to move on, but he has not. I have not contacted him or anyone else in almost a year. I just want any current NTCC members reading this blog to know that he is the one that has contacted me and started this. It was not me.

Bro. Bellamy

Edward said...

I will try to call you when I get off work. And yes you can redirect what I posted to the front page. I have been typing in haste and didn't look up some words and think about the grammar, because I use to be so particular while in NTCC that I got everything right that it was a burden.

BTW, I am a part of this now. He started it. He should have just left me alone, but I will be another voice that will expose them for what they are. They are adding more nails to their own coffin.

Bro. Bellamy

Chief said...

Edward,

I make all kinds of mistakes when I type on this blog. I've changed my posts sometimes 4, 5 times just to try to make it sound right and I still messed up. Go figure.

You've posted some serious information with this whole Bro Brill situation. I mean just think about it for a moment, (which is what I do, and unfortunately for them, too many people don't).

If Olson's own son in law and daughter got the old "NTCC shaft", why should anyone else think they are exempt? The only ones who are totally exempt are the Kekels and it's apparent that the Kinsons get a break also. Maybe Johnson is more of a man than Olson (which is certain) and maybe he simply won't allow it, but either way, for certain Kinson gets a break also in the NTCC. When I say a break, I mean that he's clearly not been held to the same standard as the average NTCC minion, which also clearly Bro Brill fell into the category of.

I've been writing the words "double standard" for years now and they still ring true with the NTCC leadership. If the NTCC leadership road roughshod on Mr. Brill, then dog gone it, you better get your butt out of bed and get your sick self to conference or you are going to get blasted and the NTCC leadership ain't taking no excuses and Bro Brill found that out the hard way.

If you read this message and you are still part of the NTCC, you are out of your ever loving mind if you still want to remain part of that crooked, sick, twisted, sadistic, conniving, sorry, sad excuse of a "Christian Organization". R.W. Davis, Olson, and Kekel don't know the first thing about common decency or how to love their neighbors the same way they love their sorry selves and Bro Brill is stone cold proof!!!!

Edward said...

I have known this and much more information that I had not revealed. Which in the next few months, and yes it will take that long, I will explain much of what you all do not know. It won't surprise you, but it will be new information. I will also respond daily to all the junk Rev. Kekel emailed to me. The information that I share is straight from the individuals themselves not what someone else told me.

Bro. Bellamy

DS or GS said...

Bro. Bellamy,

Senior Pastor Kekel has written in at least 2 places that I know of (on his Blog, and in the email to you) that he is called by God to be an administrator.

So the question that begs to be asked is why has he ever been the Pastor in Graham, or taught in the Bible College?

Why hasn't his "God appointed me" place been beside Rev. Olson and Rev. DiFrancesco only?

Gregory the Foolish and Unlearned

Don and Ange said...

Wow!

Appolyon said...

RWD had no power over you except what you freely gave him. His power is still over you if you fight him in your mind by wasting energy bashing him. It is not Scriptural to be blessed from grudges and hate...that's toxic thinking in its own right. What you submitted yourself to was by your own doing and on your own free will. Quit being a victim and own up to the fact it was your fault. Yes, they are false teachers. Yes, they will pay for their actions. But you will pay for yours too and 5 years is way too long to play this over in your head.

Appolyon said...

RWD had no power over you except what you freely gave him. His power is still over you if you fight him in your mind by wasting energy bashing him. It is not Scriptural to be blessed from grudges and hate...that's toxic thinking in its own right. What you submitted yourself to was by your own doing and on your own free will. Quit being a victim and own up to the fact it was your fault. Yes, they are false teachers. Yes, they will pay for their actions. But you will pay for yours too and 5 years is way too long to play this over in your head.

Don and Ange said...

The forked tongued copperhead said:

"When and if one's departure is followed by actions that are not according to Godly love, and include collaboration and affiliation with known enemies of the church and haters of the people you said were your friends?"

DnA said:

These words were spewed out in the next paragraph after the forked tongued copperhead said these words:

"NTCC neither teaches nor holds:
*That NTCC is God
*That leaving NTCC is to leave God
*That NTCC has no problems or is perfect
*That you are saved by WORKS

Kekel has proclaimed that we are God haters and enemies of "the church". This is a great example of a person talking out of both sides of their mouth. If we are enemies, we were made enemies by Kekel. Your trashy organization makes the rules that tells people who they can or can't affiliate or collaborate with. Make up your double mind Kekel, because you can't have it both ways. Why did you feel such a need to justify yourself Kekel? If Bro. Bellamy was collaborating with God haters and enemies of the church, (and you clearly have said Bellamy left God because he left the ntcc); Why are you writing a letter a year later trying to justify your actions? Aren't there souls that need saving?

I guess all of the preachers in the ntcc that have small congregations, which is just about all of them, are lazy and entitled. Kekel, is insulting 90% of you ministers. You give him your life and this is what he thinks about you. What a pompous and arrogant loser. If you read this blog and chose to follow the likes of Davis and Kekel, you are wasting your life. It's never been about God. People like Kekel make others hate the church and religion. They make Christianity a reproach by their actions and their deeds.

DnA

Don and Ange said...

Wasn't Appolyon the voice of the devil in Pilgrims Progress? If you wan't to identify yourself as the mouth of Satan, have at it, bud. Incredible! No arguments here. Maybe your sidekick, Legions, will get on here later and have a few choice words for us X-ers later.

Don and Ange said...

Greg and Deb,

I have tried to leave comments on your blog, but when I submit them they just disappear from the text box. Yesterday I tried to preview a comment and it disappeared and this morning I tried to publish one and it disappeared. This might be why there are no new comments on your blog.

Anonymous said...

hey "showtime at apollo". evil is allowed to reign not confronted.

Anonymous said...

DnA...I am not sure why your posts disappear. They are not in the spam folder either. I tested the posting function out, and it works fine.

Gregory

Don and Ange said...

Okay. Thanks. We will try again.

Anonymous said...

D n A said Kekel, is insulting 90% of you ministers. You give him your life and this is what he thinks about you. What a pompous and arrogant loser.

Mr. Kekel is showing his stripes as usual. He is a blind Pharisee. His very words prove what a real piece of work he is. God, help that man and other leaders in that group to see themselves and repent, if it's even possible at this point in their lives.

Anonymous said...

MCKEKEL's words to EBELLAMY:
You really don't seem to know anything about sacrifice of time, or money, judging by your statements. I never got in debt, because I didn't WANT to. No one HAS to go into debt, no matter what is expected of them.

Yes, the most righteous Michael and his industrious and frugal wife Tanya went on a missionary journey to Europe where they sacrificially were able to buy crystal from Czechoslovakia while deriding the clerk in the store, and shopping the flea markets in Paris for antique andirons that cost more than I make in a week. That is a real missionary journey and so glad they could add so much to the work of God by their sacrifices.

And all the while the peons are told they don't know anything about sacrificing. Truly, the Kekels have given of their abundance and the widow with her two mites...well, you should all know that story. Peace out.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Little mikey said "Are you aware of what my Mom and I went through, making it through the 60's?"

Yeah, we're aware of it all right! Are you aware that we remember how you got up and made fun of your mother's cracked toilet seat?

You pathetic bastard!

Why didn't you carry your sorry self down to Wal-Mart and buy her a new seat? I guess that was too much of a sacrifice. Huh? It was easier to just rail on her to the congregation in Graham than to help her, right?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Edward said to Kekel "Don’t lie on me and say that I am being motivated by the devil. I AM BEING MOTIVATED BY YOU!!!

One in the same Edward!

Anonymous said...

Edward said "Rev. Kekel, you never know what someone knows, so it would have been better to kept your mouth closed."

He's a big mouth punk and one of these days, hopefully sooner than later, he's gonna run that big trap of his to the "right" person and that person is gonna shove his fist down that punk's throat. Grant it Jesus!

Anonymous said...

Hey,code name Appolyon! If I'm correct, there's a pond not to far from you house. Do us all a favor...go jump in it!

Anonymous said...

From Mike Kekel: No one is just out of the blue saying "leave!". "We don't want anyone here, we want you to leave!" That would be crazy, and anyone who takes it that way is super-sensitive.

Why say it at all? You kick a dog enough times and guess what? There is no humility or gentleness, no meekness or lowliness among you, The way "men of God" treat others is absolutely reprehensible. This latest example is another confirmation of the degenerate state of leadership, and repeated failure to admit any wrongdoing in any matter.

Where is the love of God and wisdom of the Holy Ghost? I feel sorry for people who can't even see what Pharisees they have become. We suffered wrong of you and others silently for so many years,thinking cruelty and high-mindedness was what we should accept from those over us. The disdain you have for the people that God has supposedly given you charge over was evident for many years, and we suffered wrong of those we later found are hypocrites and Pharisees. Many live not to serve, but to be served, and this seems to be the outlook of many in leadership positions.

The Spirit of God had been prodding us for a few years about the condition of the church we were involved with and what God really wanted from us. When God Himself finally gave us the go-ahead to leave, we were able to separate ourselves. In the end, the voice of God was louder than our efforts to stay and we were no longer able to block out all that was so unlike God within the system. And truly whom the Son sets free is free indeed.

DSR

DS or GS said...

Well said DSR. Thanks.

Gregory

Anonymous said...

does anyone know anything about rev curry i know shortly after the split he left hopcc and denis talked bad about him..i hope they are doing ok.

Chief said...

Last I knew he was helping to pastor a church in Florida. Eric Hanna was there with him in the same area I think periodically attending the same church.

Anonymous said...

I spoke to him recently. He's ministering in a Methodist Church. He felt lead to help the ministry in this particular church because they helped him while he was in Europe.

Anonymous said...

Curry is not part of Hop either. Dennis did him just like Davis does people...WRONG!

Chief said...

Yep, that the size of it. Dennis is a crook just like Davis. Hanna and Curry both left Denis because when they got close enough to him, they saw right through him. I'm telling you; you have a couple really bad and conniving organizations with the NTCC and HOP. These two churches are the bottom of the bucket. Dennis personally told me that at the time of the split that he learned a lot from Davis and that was the one good thing he took from the NTCC. One crook learns from another.

Davis taught Dennis how to effectively con people and Dennis ran with it and that is the absolute truth.

Anonymous said...

you got that right..cons nothing but the absolute truth

Anonymous said...

i remember when they left wish we would have followed suit..would have been much better off!
I know denis did him wrong he did us wrong!

Anonymous said...

:-/ It is what it is. Can't change it. Now we know better.

Anonymous said...

amen to that!

Anonymous said...

WOW I'm just wow'ed. I left a few years back. I was with NTCC for about 12 years (Graham church). I have kids who are older and that are very, very bitter. I have found a new, wonderful CHURCH home, not one that abuses. I have healed mentally and physically since I left but having been married to one of their "Ministers" who was just so true to the word/title (NOT - more like abusive hypocrite) anyway, my children have such problem with opening up to accepting God now b/c of all of this. Anyone have ideas? I'm loving them, I'm living the example of forgiving, healing, and moving on. I really try not to bash all the negative we went thru b/c I want to be an example but I think they need to get it out. I just pray for them to get it out of their system since so much of their life was so awful and the leaders of NTCC turned their eye to it, and that they learn that there are healthy relationships in churches and with Christ. I hope NTCC will be stopped before they can allow more people to end up so hurt!

Don and Ange said...

Anonymous said:

"I have healed mentally and physically since I left but having been married to one of their "Ministers" who was just so true to the word/title (NOT - more like abusive hypocrite) anyway, my children have such problem with opening up to accepting God now b/c of all of this. Anyone have ideas? "

DnA said:

Just keep loving them and being an example, but be real with them about the experiences you went through. Being honest and truthful and having an open dialogue with them is not a bad thing. It does not make you bitter or angry but you will find that discussing these things is very therapeutic. Part of the brainwashing that took place in all of our lives was to convince us that if we ever said anything bad about them, that makes us bitter and full of hate. Jesus never backed down from the Pharisees and there is no reason we should back down from these hypocrites either.

Some might tell you to forget about them and get on with your life, but sometimes it helps to confront these lying con artists and see them for exactly what they are.

DnA

Anonymous said...

DnA - thank you!! I needed that! =)

Don and Ange said...

You're welcome. Glad to help!

Dion Jones said...

Is this Bellamy from Baumholder Germany? If so...how are you other than all this? This is Jones from Vilseck! Just reading all the terrible testimonies from NTCC. Such a shame:(

Anonymous said...

James 3:6-8 says, "The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell. No man can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison."
Romans 1:29-30 describes the lives of unbelievers who have shunned God: "They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed, and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents." Gossip and slander belong to unbelievers who have rejected God. When we gossip, we talk like people who have rejected Christ.
Ephesians 4:25 says, "Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body." When we gossip, facts are distorted. Lies are spoken as truth. Half-truths are heralded as gospel. Gossip may have an ounce of truth to it. But gossip is usually combined with a ton of lies. People often have the attitude, "Don't bother me with the facts. My mind is already made up."
Proverbs 16:28 says, "A perverse man stirs up dissension, and a gossip separates close friends." In a few seconds gossip can ruin a friendship that took years to build. Not only does gossip ruin friendships. Gossip can do great harm to a church.
Proverbs 17:9 says, "He who covers over an offense promotes love, but whoever repeats the matter separates close friends." Overlooking an offense is an act of love and friendship. It is also a sign of Christian maturity. Christians can be too thin skinned. We can wear our feelings on our shoulders. We need to develop rhinoceros thick skin.
Proverbs 20:19 tells us, "A gossip betrays a confidence; so avoid a man who talks too much." Did you hear that verse? Don't listen to gossipers and their gossip. God's word says, avoid the gossiper. When someone begins to gossip to you, tell them plainly, "I don't want to hear any gossip. We don't want gossip hurting our church." Don't worry about offending them by telling them you don't want to hear any gossip. Gossipers need to be put in their place.
Ephesians 4:29 says, "Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen." Watch your tongue. If your words tear people down rather than building them up, keep quiet. As my mother used to tell me, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."

Vic Johanson said...

Blah blah blah...you're not "say[ing] anything nice" about those you characterize as "gossipers," when in reality they're warning potential victims about the false prophets run amok within NTCC. The true gossipers are the corrupt leadership of NTCC, who mobilize a network of snitches and whisperers to destroy anyone they perceive as a threat (which, given their legendary paranoia, might be anyone).

Sorry to bother you with the facts, when it appears your mind is made up.

Anonymous said...

Chief,

Here is some more on women working:

https://newtestamentchristianchurchdebswtnss.blogspot.com/2012/10/working-women-senior-pastor-kekel.html


Gregory

Chief said...

Hey there Gregory. How are you and the wife. Long time. Hope you have a Merry Christmas.

Jeff

Unknown said...

http://www.hopcc.com/tune-in-for-breaking-news-story-on-hopcc-monday-1000-p-m/

Chief said...

I just listened to the news report. Not a whole lot said. Not a whole lot there. They'll keep flying under the radar.

Vic Johanson said...

Yeah, if this is the beginning of a series, it's pretty weak...they need to dig deeper. Think about it--Scientology still persists even after they've been repeatedly busted for criminal behavior and outed ad nauseum in the media. HOP and NTCC, as abusive and evil as they are, don't even hold a candle to the scientologists and their tactics. It's almost impossible to shut down a "religion" in this country.

Unknown said...

I was called to stay after the service. I was going for about 5 months.. the pastor told me I didn't know what tithing was insisting I take my cash out of the basket and write the amount I put in the basket in envelope and called his two Reverend's too witnesses that I get the money out and I felt like I was being shaken down for money.. I went to the church because I was lost in life.. I felt better after a while and then they did this to me.. I was afraid and left never to return.

Anonymous said...

Good choice! Leaving them was the best decision. If you felt or feel lost, don't wworry, Jesus is still in the saving business! He said,


For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost. (Luke 19:10)

Anonymous said...

Something is really strange to me...

I see the HOPP folks have Xer's (former members) and some are rabid in their desire to expose them. Videos, yelling and screaming at the members before and after service...

Why do I see nothing on the NTCC side of this? Same basic church. Same basic fraud.

Just wondering

Vic Johanson said...

I got the tithing lecture too. I was already paying, but would just throw it in the basket, to not let the left hand know what the right hand is doing when it comes to giving--like the bible says. But that wasn't good enough; I had to stick it in an envelope and make it "official." It became clearer once I went to the NTCC brainwashing institute; founder RW Davis taught us that the "tithing report" is the most important information a pastor has, and that we needed to watch it closely to determine who was really in the boat. They want to know who they're successful in shaking down, and who they can run off without affecting the bottom line.

Vic Johanson said...

HOP is kind of like NTCC on steroids, and Denis has ratcheted up the cult tactics to the point that it creates more opposition. RW liked to fly under the radar, but Denis is far more confrontational, so reaction to him is stronger. Twofold more the child of hell than his mentor.

Edward said...

Hello everyone it has been several years since I commented and many of you do not know me. Bro. Ed Bellamy. I'm commenting because I thought of something today. If success in the ministry us a big church can anyone name 25 people the Davis Ikson or Kekel have reached in the ministry?

Edward said...

Davis Olson Or Kekel. Auto spellcheck is never so great

Edward said...

And for all you newbies I was with NTCC in 1991 and there was no one that was saved then because of their ministry

Vic Johanson said...

Yeah, that was the elephant in the room; they'd teach us from Jack Hyle's crap that the pastor was to be the chief "soul winner," but RW and the gang never won anyone. RW always had some projects, like Lou Ricketts in St. Louis, or Al the barber in Graham (who was placed off-limits to any witnessing by others), but never seemed to be able to close. They're just hypocrites and blowhards.

Anonymous said...

I feel sorry for you... hope some day you will andget saved right with God. Read your Bible , if you were right with God, you would have just gone to another church and prayed For Him.oh yes keep you options to your self.

Anonymous said...

After all these years, why do you still keep commenting on NTCC.
Have you read the Bible we're it said, if this is not of God it will passway.its 50years and still going. Hasn't passed away yet..

Chief said...

50 years and still going? So much for that logic. I've personally listened to more NTCC messages about the Catholic Church than I care to recall. And how many years have they been at it? Well let me look it up on Google.

The first known use of the phrase "the catholic church" (καθολικὴ ἐκκλησία he katholike ekklesia) occurred in the letter written about 110 AD from Saint Ignatius of Antioch to the Smyrnaeans.

So much for your logic. 50 years of cultism, false doctrine, abuse (both psychological and sexual), and money laundering doesn't even light a candle to almost 2000 years of much of the same from the Catholic Church. The NTCC is nothing more then an organization ran by control freak liars and hypocrites, for the express purpose of laundering as much money as humanly possible and the accumulation of property and wealth on the backs of a bunch of suckers who I was certainly once a member of.

Assuming you are still a member of this divisive cult, don't feel sorry for me, I feel sorry for you because you are the one blindly trapped by your own ignorance and unwillingness to open your brain and see the NTCC cult for exactly what it is. You are the sucker that Olson and the Kekel's are profiting from not me. Read your Bible and read the part where it says For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some (Davis and Kekel) coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Show me one example in the NEW TESTAMENT of one single Apostle or Prophet getting filthy rich of the backs of an entire organization. And explain to me why for decades the NTCC leadership used 1 Cor 16:2 in their very own doctrinal statement to justify compulsory tithing when it has absolutely NOTHING to do with tithing at all but rather taking up a collection for the poor saints in Jerusalem? Explain that one Mr. "Read your Bible" wannabe theologian. Man I've probably forgot more about the bible than you'll ever learn following the NTCC false doctrines. And by the way, Mr. Read your Bible, is the NTCC still teaching that "Keepers at home". means that a woman can't have a job outside the home? Keepers at home means to keep your house clean but that's right, you haven't read your bible enough to figure that one out along with the rest of the crooked preachers in the NTCC that willfully ignore the facts in an effort to keep their own cultist doctorine pure.

Chief said...

Oh another question? Are women in the NTCC still running around in dresses all the time? Might want to recheck that scripture also. Deu 22:5 is talking about a women not wearing the battle gear worn by a "Strong" man fit for battle. You never read that part in your Strong's Concordance did you? I did't think so because you ain't spent enough time in your Bible looking for the true meaning of scriptures rather than following a bunch of false doctrine and liars blindly.

Vic Johanson said...

Why do I still comment on NTCC? Mostly in the hope that someone on the fence won't fall over the wrong side and become a brainwashed lackey like you, sucking up to fake prophets and throwing their lives away to help millionaires get richer, jumping through ridiculous hoops and enduring cruel mind games. And also because it's highly therapeutic to stand up and call bullshit on the bullshitters after being manipulated and intimidated by those clowns for so many years of my life. They're losers and bullies that need exposing. If you read your own bible and believe what it says (rather than the spin you're getting spoonfed by your overlords) you'll find that they're charlatans and deceivers. Grow a spine and ditch NTCC.

Stivaro said...

Hey Vic. Good to see you're still fighting the good fight. Every now and then I check in to see if this corrupt organization has crumbled yet. Saddened to see that they are still pilfering the masses and destroying lives.

Vic Johanson said...

Haha yeah I'll never cease telling the truth about the soul-stealers at NTCC. It's a public service! There's a sucker born every minute, so fodder is everywhere, but the deceived can be undeceived after they've tasted the bitterness of being under the thumb for awhile.

Anonymous said...

It's fascinating that HOPCC has group that posts you tube content and does protests at the church. I've never seen that at any of the churches at NTCC.

I'm wondering how much worse is HOP...

Did the energy to expose NTCC die with Davis. Ashmore left, Curry left...

Seems like the church was going to fall by the wayside yet still they remain.

Chief said...

Ah, it is what it is. The problem with the equation is the ability to continually brainwash human beings. By nature, large percentages of human being are easily conned and manipulated. That's what I've come to realize. Doesn't matter how much evidence, doesn't matter how plain the fact are, NTCC people are suckers by nature. They are easy to take advantage of. And that is not going to change. For ever sucker who's eyes we miraculously open, there are 20 more waiting to be gullible as humanly possible.

NTCC people don't want to know the truth and that is the truth. That says it all. So if someone has no interest in the truth, why waste your time writing it. That's what I've concluded. Davis died a crook, Kekel is a crook, Olson is a crook and the list goes on. These aren't good people, they are simply straight con men.

We have posted so much documented evidence over the years, that a blind man with any common sense could see right through the NTCC easily. But they don't. Why? It's the nature of a gullible sucker. They fall for anything and it never stops. Human being in general are very easily conned. Hitler figured it out, the democrats have figured it out, Trump has figured it out and the NTCC has definitely figured it out. The NTCC leaders can tell their congregants anything and they are ready and willing to clean the Kekel's house without even blinking an eye. Gullible suckers never cease to exist. It's life. Look at the Catholics. People love to have someone lead them even if it means leading them into a ditch. It's just the nature of humans. They are easy to take advance of.

Vic Johanson said...

Conditioning is a powerful tool, and denial is strong among the brainwashed. But at some point, an honest person will begin to notice the incongruity between what comes out of the mouths of NTCC "leadership" and the plainly observable details of their corrupt lives. If that never happens, it's an indicator of at least some degree of willful ignorance, and those pathetic specimens deserve their fate.

Don't be a loser--man up and ditch the cult! Get out from under the thumb of your taskmasters; your suffering is of no consequence to them--they only care about what they can extort. Escape before you die old and broke, like Ralph St. Clair, who stuck around even though they treated him like a piece of garbage.

As far as HOP, yes, Rony Denis has definitely exceeded his mentor's abusiveness, and I suppose that would make his escapees more militant.

Chief said...

Hey Vic. How have you been? Good to hear from you. Who knows. Just maybe some current NTCCer will come across this blog and get a good dose of reality. It's still up and has been over 10 years now. I know that some people have left the NTCC because of this blog but as you know, for the most part, they continue to be blind as a bat. Like you said... An honest person will begin to notice just as you and I did. The whole thing is amazing. The power that some humans have over others is simply amazing. I know, I've been there.

Vic Johanson said...

Hey Chief, life is good, especially since I don't have any millionaire overlords plaguing me with their egotism and control freak ways. This blog is a resource that stands as a perpetual witness to the bullshit that is NTCC. Bondage to fear is a way of life for those who won't shake the dust off their feet and depart the cult. All the while they're whistling past the graveyard, pretending they're happy and free. What a scam!

Anonymous said...

100% agree, what was that book we all had to read? Who moved my cheese?

Vic Johanson said...

"The Go-Getter" was another towering spiritual classic that was required reading.

Anonymous said...

Lol...that book justified the mind games prevelent in NTCC and perpetusted the idea that mundane and routine tasks might be testing for positions of responsibility. Instead of fetching a blue vase, it might be cleanung the Kekels home or shining the Pastors shoes.

Work hard at developing a marketble skill or building something of value. That is how you get ahead and get promoted. "By the holy pink toed prophet and his twelve ragged apostles."

Eric

Vic Johanson said...

Right, and it also justified cutting corners and breaking the law just to achieve a goal. (which isn't surprising, because another book prominent on the NTCC reading list was "The Prince" by Niccolò Machiavelli, another of RWD's influences).

Chief said...

RWD was a master manipulator. The whole military thing played right into his plan perfectly. We were conditioned to be blindly "obedient". "Yes Sir" no questions asked. Especially the young Soldiers we NTCCers were primarily taught to target. Then, the NTCC scheme came into play and an already obedient soldier was conditioned even further to a degree that we would no longer even thing for ourselves and trained to ignore all logic and reason. That's where the whole faith and obedience part of the NTCCs training came in. No logical man on this planet would allow their wife to go clean another man's house just because he was so quote, "great man of GAWD". The Kekel and Davis families were and are some of the most despicable users and manipulators on earth. Straight scum of the earth. Kekel is nothing but a jerk wad con man and his sorry wife is spoiled rotten piece of trash.

They are just scum. Same with Olson and all the rest of the leaders in the NTCC. No exceptions.

Vic Johanson said...

Chief, I think you're holding back--tell us how you really feel ; -) .

Unknown said...

Hey vic is me curt. Glad to see you going strong, i was able to read so much more then i already experienced myself, and i encourage all of us Ex'ers to add more of the abuse and i mean abuse about such leadership, i'm glad to know i was not the only one expose to to so much! May God Bless each of you and heal all the mental twisted techniques thru scriptures we all had a taste of.

Anonymous said...

Which Curt? Whichever, glad to know you're thriving, like people do when they escape the NTCC gulag. We're free! I see now the anti-internet NTCC is holding services on...the internet! I took a trip down bad memory lane and watched a few minutes of my old roommates Mike and Phil working their scam, but couldn't take much more than that. What happened to the good old days, when RW reamed me from the pulpit just because I had a modem? How they change! I remember Mike railing on broadcasting NTCC services, saying it was just a trick of the devil to appeal to his pride. What a phony.

Anonymous said...

Would anyone be willing to share some of the cultish thing they've seen in the church? I've recently found out some things are know definitely are true, and am curious about others experiences.

Anonymous said...

So did Davis recognize what Papa Gaylord was trying to do with his vision for the military? Who saw the military as a breeding ground for limitless victims? People seem to still love Papa Gaylord but didn't he have something to do with this?

Anonymous said...

Anon,

I saw a lot of what would go on in a Pentecostal Church... I more or less saw a great deal of hypocrisy. You shouldn't sin, yet so many women were the size of a bus, they were broke, they had spousal problems, on and on and on. No one was really all that happy and when they left they felt guilty for years (me included).

One cultish thing that was very observable was pastor worship... Ashmore and Davis were seen as second fiddle to Jesus.

Anonymous said...

Is it true you guys had to ask permission to hang out with one another outside of church?

Anonymous said...

Yes. Grown men standing in a line to ask permission to have a friend over for coffee.

How about it being a scandel when a student was caught playing an arcade game at a restraunt.

What kind of human, much less Christian, wants that kind of control over other people? NTCC is a very sick place.

Eric

Vic Johanson said...

For awhile there was a vasectomy fad, fueled by admonitions to not have kids in order to "give yourself to the ministry." At least a dozen got snipped (but of course none in the royal lineage).

We had to get permission to do everything. Have someone over. Borrow a cup of sugar. One "brother" refused to jump start another's car because there was no permission. A "sister" refused to lend a toilet plunger for the same reason. The really culty stuff was reserved for the ministry and for bible school students. They even had to get permission to quit a secular job at one point (the rules were changing all the time). Students of the opposite sex weren't allowed to speak to one another, and if a guy had an interest, he had to ask permission and then could only talk to her in the fellowship hall where all gathered after services. There was no one on one unchaperoned dating, and all the talking had to be done on "the wall," which had a row of desks set up in front of it for that purpose. Earlier on we we did go out collectively from time to time, but always under the watchful eye, and the wall eventually replaced that practice. The only time I spent alone with my future wife was when we were permitted to go unsupervised to pick up our marriage license. Teenaged girls are a hot commodity and were routinely married off as soon as possible to the twentysomethings they'd been dating since 13-14. Plus we had all the typical ultra-"holiness" crap to deal with--stupid clothing and hair rules, and any secular entertainment was condemned (who knew bowling alleys were such dens of iniquity!). The internet was demonized as "the sinnernet," but not forbidden like TV. I got rebuked from the pulpit for having a modem. Even classical music was banned in the dorms. It was a demented circus.

Not sure what's going on now, but that's how it was in the '80s and '90s. It's all compromised in comparison now. Even though they pretend they're still following "the old paths," anyone who's been there awhile knows it's gone the way old RW said it would--the way of "the world." Not sure it even made the 50 years he was always citing. Now it's just another sorry two bit church whose dynamic leader died and left an organization that's now desperately trying to reinvent itself to stop from withering away, but until the old baggage is dealt with, it's not likely to work. None of the hacks in charge now have the same force of personality that RW employed so successfully to deceive and manipulate, although they do have some of the mechanics of it down. It's not helping either that there are sites like this one littered around the internet yanking the blankets off the charlatan's game that is NTCC

Been awhile since I've denounced it online; feels good!

Dion Jones said...

Damn theses churches still exist? The name of the game is they'll get em when they're young but if they love God or even have common sense...They will get the hell outta that religious BS asap!

Vic said...

There's a sucker born every minute, and plenty of charlatans to exploit them. Some never do escape.

Anonymous said...

I left NTCC back in 2013. And yes I got saved while I was there, but..NTCC almost ruined my life and it was a highly, highly controlling and manipulating organization. They used what God has done in my life and even in other people’s lives …for their own glory and their own benefit. Really you’re nothing but asset to the NTCC organization. Even after I left I was harassed/ shunned badly for leaving even when I left in peace. I saw this recent video on YouTube of a woman sharing her testimony about her time in NTCC. https://youtu.be/C7RsN0GX6rM

Soli Deo Gloria said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Was recently black listed from NTCC. I’m trying to get what NTCC is doing and the heavily negative impact they have public. If anyone wants to give me their testimony of how things went in the Org for them let me know. Names can be omitted.

Anonymous said...

Hi Anonymous,

Start reading this and other blogs. Lots of YouTube videos of NTCC church services, Bible Studies & survivor's personal testimonies. There were many articles published in a small newspaper local to NTCC's Headquarters (with an online version that searchable) called the "The Dispatch."

Then maybe you could present your findings to us. What say you?

Gregory

Anonymous said...

I’m definitely ok with that. I have been trying to do a bunch of research after the stuff I have found. I can share what I do already know. I do know without a doubt the being sterilized for Jesus was a thing. Where ministers were either getting vasectomies or their tubes tied. The Pastor I was under. His wife told me that is why they separated for like a year. But he eventually had his reversed once they got back together . I heard that they used to kill cats because David said they were of the devil. I have a friend who is quite older than me, her dad was a minister when she was a kid in ntcc and he was illiterate. Davis essentially swindled him out of his home and had him sign papers not knowing what they were, that Davis was just supposed to be keeping the house for safety until he got back. They sent the man to Arizona and when he got back to stl, Davis had sold the man’s home. Also the This is I paper? Are any of you guys familiar with that, when I asked about it I was told they don’t write that paper in Bible college anymore but I heard it’s a paper where they have you essentially write down every sun you ever done and turn it in. And once it’s turned in it gets shared with the board. Even though students are told it gets burned after. I never went to Bible College after finding out certain things and seeing how Bible College almost like changed the people that went there I very quickly changed my mind. Has the Kekel’s always made you guys refer to them as dorm daddy and dorm mommy? I also heard the Sis Tieman came onto a brother and he rejected her and so she tried to pair him up quickly with another single lady but the single lady and him both spoke up on what happened and they were the ones excommunicated. I will continue to do research and present what I find. I guess I’m just looking for clarification on things true and things not true. These blogs were actually what made me start questioning a lot of things, there is quite a lot of you guys and I know NTCC says that everything said on the blogs are lies but I just can’t logically believe allll of you would be lying. Well and now I’m black listed so I’m seeking truth because I want to know.

Anonymous said...

So you already have a good overview going back decades. Read further what else is online to fill in more gaps.

Ciao,

Gregory

Anonymous said...

Though a Blog may be slow or dormant it's important as a legal record of eyewitness experiences and observations. 20 years from now there will be few left. Only when the Cult's old guard are dead (from Kekel on up) will this information be unimportant. NTCC will then be so deluted no vestige of it's enourmous untapped past potential will be evident.

Gregory

Vic said...

Jeff if you see this, email me at squarepegman at gmail dot com--will be back east in a couple weeks and might be able to swing through Savannah and visit (if you're still there).

Vic Johanson