Seeking The Truth

Thread #54 In the previous thread Concerned Minister wrote...

"I believe there is a problem with abuse among some of the pastors in the field. I am looking for possible sources for it and trying to get a deeper understanding of its causes and effects. It goes deeper than "they learned it from Pastor Davis."

Jeff said...

For those of you who don't know, Concerned Minister says that he is an active NTCC minister. Based upon his written statements I think it is quite likely. The reason I say this is because he has deservedly elected not to reveal his name so as a result we don't truly know who he is. He does regularly go by his screen name which I wish others would do more often as well. Some who only post "anonymously" or "anonymous" have no credibility with anyone on this blog. Concerned Minister seeks to be the voice of reason with exNTCCers on this blog and he often seeks to perpetuate a different point of view that often favors the views of the NTCC. I have no problem with that despite the fact that I don't agree with him quite often. Open dialogue is very good nevertheless open dialogue is something that RWD generally does not allow under any circumstances. It is either his way or the highway and he has stated that in many different ways.

Jeff then replied to Concerned Ministers original statement...

I thought about this whole abuse thing again and your statement that I quoted above. You are actually right; it does go deeper. Right before my family left the NTCC for good pastor Oberhauser made two notable statements during church service. He said "some of you won't allow me to pastor you." Then he said and I quote, "someone told me that I am too nice and I need to be more rude."

Jeff said...

First thing: Who ever told him he needed to be more rude had to a leader senior to him. NTCC pastors generally don't receive pastoral advice that they are willing to implement if it does not come from a senior leader. This guidance that Oberhauser was given had to come from an overseer or Kekel or Olson or RWD or a senior pastor such as Kinson. Which ever the case Oberhauser was effectively told to become abusive because that is exactly what being "rude" is.

I don't allow people to be "rude" to me and my family and continue to put up with it if I have any other choice. And guess what? That is exactly what Oberhauser did but the more proper description of the metamorphosis that he displayed was turning from someone who was nice into an abusive jerk. The way he treated Sis Haynes was totally unacceptable. Concerned Minister: He was told to act that way by someone in the NTCC leadership.

It was definitely taught and I have seen the same thing take place before with 5 other NTCC pastors and I witnessed the occurrence with my own two eyes. The only difference is that some of these guys didn't go through a metamorphosis. They showed a consistent pattern of being abusive jerks all alone.

Concerned Minister: Someone does not have to give you a verbal directive for you to be taught something even though that was the case with Oberhauser. You are being taught something every time someone suggests that you follow the "example" of other leaders. That is regularly taught in the NTCC. Everybody wants to be like RWD or Kinson or Jones or Olson and so on.

The reason there are "so many" abusive ministers in the NTCC is because it is a common occurrence and therefor "copied by many."
Everything I have written is a "FACT" Concerned Minister and can not be disputed.

Jeff

How To Spot An Abusive Church

Thread #53 An Anonymous writer posted this information two threads back. I thought it was so good I quite rapidly decided to make it a headline. This is excellent information that very accurately represents the NTCC.

Anonymous wrote...

How to Spot an Abusive Church

Thousands of Christians have given up on going to church because of the spiritual abuse they have suffered as part of another congregation, says a pastor who offers warning signs that a pastor may be too controlling.

In "Exposing Spiritual Abuse," Mike Fehlauer says that the problem is "rampant and more widespread than we have wanted to believe," and relates several horror stories of the way some pastors have exercised inappropriate power and control over their church members.

In his Charisma House book, Fehlauer tells of a West Coast family told off by their pastor after going on a vacation without first getting his permission. The rest of the congregation was ordered not to talk to the family for a period of time, during which the children were not allowed to play with other youngsters in the church.

In another church, a young woman was told that she should not date her boyfriend because he attended a different church, and a man was told that his wife had not been accepted for the worship team because she was too fat and did not meet the unspoken " 5-7-9 " rule, referring to the dress sizes acceptable for singers.

Such stories are "much more typical than any of us would like to admit," Fehlauer writes. "The sad truth is that many churches today struggle with varying degrees of control, which can lead to devastating abuse if not corrected."

That abuse has resulted in "untold thousands of wounded and disillusioned Christians who believe they've been burned by the one institution that was supposed to help them." Many turn their back on the church for good, he adds.

The pastor of Tree of Life Church in New Braunfels, Texas, Fehlauer outlines the key warning signs of an abusive church, including "power positioning" where the pastor starts to take the place of Christ in people's lives, the demand for unquestioned authority, and an atmosphere of secrecy.

Other "red lights" include an elitist attitude that discourages members from attending other churches, an emphasis on "performance," motivating members by fear, and difficulty in leaving on good terms.

Anonymous

PS: We have three good threads in a row so please feel free to continue with any one of them.

Be Careful When You Say, "God Told Me..."

Thread #50 Written below in quotations, is a statement that Diana Taylor posted about four threads back. It is definitely information that I believe should be headlined. For all who don't know Diana Taylor; she was in the NTCC for about 25 years. While in the NTCC, Diana traveled all over the United States with her husband who pastored various churches and serviceman's homes for decades. In 1985, I lived in a serviceman's home that was run by the Taylor's. L. Taylor, Diana's husband, was the first pastor that I ever had while I was with the NTCC. The point I'm making is that Diana Taylor knows about as much about the NTCC as "ANYONE" with the exception of a select few. The Taylors went to the the NTCC's seminary in the 1970's. I don't at all mind some opposing dialogue on this one, but please don't directly attack Diana. Thank you.

Diana Taylor wrote...

"In the New and Improved NTCC I would like to start a list of don't do's...Be careful when you say, “God told me…”

I want to share an incident that happened to me and my family not long before we decided that we were no longer going to attend NTCC. We had come back to the home church for reasons that I don’t wish to discuss, but in that time I began to notice how different things were in the home church.

My son had gone to talk to some of the teens after service while waiting for us to finish fellowshipping with other ministers and their wives. We went home as we normally did, only to get home and receive a phone call from Rev. R.W. Davis saying that he wanted to speak to Andrew. I said sure and handed him the phone. I heard some of the conversation from my son’s response and began to wonder what was up. Andrew hung up the phone and came up to me with this question. “Does God lie?” To which my immediate response was, “NO!” I asked him why he asked. His response to me has stuck with me to this day...He said, Mom, Rev. Davis said that God told him I said this and did that.” I said did you admit to it? He said No because I did not do it. I told him don’t ever admit to something that you did not do, even if someone says God told me.

I left this organization not long after this incident. Many might ask why you would leave after belonging to this organization for 25 years. My reply is simple…If you as a minister of God missed what God was really trying to tell you in something so small, how can I trust your judgment with my life? There is no way in Hell that you can tell me anything from this point on. The Shepherd is supposed to watch after the flock."

Jeff wrote...

That incident is a pure shame. For a change I have nothing else to say.

Written by Diana Taylor and posted by Jeff Collins

What's Up Homeboy?

Thread #49 Here’s the story folk’s. This picture was posted on Mike Kekel's blog. What interesting about these pictures is that they show a pattern developing within the NTCCs hierarchy. With RWD being quite old now, Kekel has become the new captain of the ship. Kekel is perpetuating a new notion of a new kinder gentler NTCC than was previously taught by RWD. This picture shows an image of a young NTCS graduate acting like one of the homeboy’s back on the block. Is that actually a big deal? No of course it is not. The guys are having a little fun and they should be, after all they went through at the NTCC school of rules. The problem is RWD would not have previously advocated that type of conduct. The guy's cap is tipped backwards while he throws up the old sign with his lips clenched. He reminds me of one of the homeboy's from the hood. RWD and his ministers have always taught that is creating the appearance of evil. Is there actually a problem with the guy having fun? No, of course not, but why did Mike Kekel choose to post "that" picture when RWD has never approved of such conduct? Because Mike is trying to show NTCC folks what the standard is, while creating the impression that things have been like that all along. We all know they haven't. RWD never ever advocated or condoned someone acting like one of the homeboy's and he certainly wouldn't have allowed it to be posted on the internet.

There is another picture on Kekel's blog showing a group of young kids playing an innocent game of foosball. This is a game you find in a bowling alley or arcade. Sounds like fun. The boy in the rear right corner of the picture behind and to the left of the tall guy has his hat flipped around backwards. Once again RWD wouldn't have condoned that. The NTCC always wanted us to create a certain kind of impression to the public. I understand the kid turned his hat around to more effectively see the table but RWD would have told the parent to have the kid turn it back around or take it off, and then he would have preached at the parent during the next service. Instead Kekel posted the picture for all to see. I'm assuming this is the inside of Kekels house? Boy Kekel is loaded. That is all the good old NTCC money hard at work. A game room while ministers are running around broke? Kekel is sucking you guys dry. Boy he is living high on the hog. I'm really disappointed that I sacrificed one dime toward the NTCC. I see where my hard earned money went. For all the money that I gave to the NTCC my family could have had a game room. We have a very nice house but no game room. I want one. Maybe I will get a game room one day. It will take me longer than Kekel because I am not getting money from everybody else. Plus I'm having to play catch up since I left the NTCC because they sucked up every dime they could get out of me. NTCC folks have the nerve to say I'm greedy? Kekel's house is proof of his greed and it came to him at the expense of all his broke ministers. Who else in the NTCC has a house like Kekel's? Other then RWD show me one person. Something is wrong with that picture.

Jeff

Overcoming Post Traumatic NTCC Disorder By LaQueshia Jeffries

Thread #48 First admit that you have a problem.

Speaking from personal experience, after deciding to leave NTCC, my first instinct was to frantically look for churches that met the NTCC mold. I had maintained some ‘friendships’ with people still in the organization, and I did not want to appear unsaved in their eyes. So I knew I needed to find a new church quick. Many of the places I attended were either just as misinformed or manipulative as the NTCC. And the ones that weren't, I picked apart with my judgments and criticism.

It took me quite a while to get it in my head that I had left the organization for a reason. And the reason was that I had erred by continuing to attend even after the little angel on my shoulder screamed that I should get out of dodge. Yes, I had messed up, and I had to tell myself that it was okay to step back, take a breath, and admit a profound mistake. After that, the pressure to appease that NTCC voice in the back of my head began to relent.

Seek Help.

Although my family was happy to ‘have me back’, I still did not want to delve into all the lies, abuse, mischaracterizations, and hurt I felt about having attended the church. However, it is through sites like Fact Net and Jeff’s blog that allow one to decompress and move on. (Fasten your seatbelt, we’re about to plunge deep.)

Molestation is a terrible thing so I do not use this example lightly, but it is worthy of a comparison. For years I suppressed the memory of my own molestation and chose not to deal with it. Only God knows how that has affected my personal relationships and approach to life. After years of trying to move past NTCC and feeling guilty and nervous with every visit to my mother (since I always ran into members and former friends), it finally came to a head when I called Jeff. I had always wanted to believe that the leaders were just misguided and had no clue the damage they caused people. Even after Rev. Parr castigated me for withdrawing and attending fewer services, while pregnant, and after having lost my son’s twin, I was angry but chalked it up to his inexperience as a leader.

But I always knew in the back of my head that the Elders were intimately involved in every aspect of a given church, especially a servicemen’s work. Anyway, Jeff told me of the land transfer between the NTCC and Kekel, and I became sick to my stomach. I abruptly ended our call and cried my heart out. Some 3 years after leaving the organization, I finally realized they were completely wrong. NTCC was not the voice of God, but instead the brainchild of Davis. Talking to others and allowing yourself to grieve with quicken the much needed healing process. Suppressing your feelings will not.

Apologize.

Depending on how ‘zealous’ you were you may need to sign many “I’m sorry!” letters. I had to apologize to my mother for acting in a disrespectful and smug way to her. To my sisters, who sat with me after one of my miscarriages, (something no pastor ever did, since I miscarried a few days before conference), even though I told them they were sinners and barely maintained contact with them. Finally, I had to forgive myself for being a jerk and for being prideful and dumb, at the same time. During my time in NTCC I thought I was so superior to others, that I had the answers, when I truly did not. Forgiving oneself for ‘wasting time’ is one of the hardest things to do. But ultimately, the time is already gone, it cannot be retrieved.

Stop wishing and start living again. If you do not know how to begin, simply start by emulating someone who is happy, helpful, and honest. It will become easier over time to discern genuine and legit people. As a matter of fact, those few honest and lovely people you met in NTCC may have actually left by now. See if you can find them. The woman who invited me was always so sweet and forthright, even while in the org. She left approximately a year after I did. We are still great friends to this day.

Written By LaQueshia Jeffries and posted by Jeff Collins

The Damage Control And Smear Campaign

Thread #47 Last night we received a phone call from a couple who had been with the Columbus. Georgia NTCC under the Oberhausers. We all were in the church together for quite some time. A couple years or so. Of course we knew them fairly well. They were still in the church when my family left and they witnessed the smear campaign. In addition to their witness, was another person to whom I have talked.

They told us Oberhauser said that everyone who had left his church (NTCC), "God will destroy". How is it that a minister feels that he has the power to bring a curse of God upon people who leave his church? How can you say you love people when you want to see your own prophesy of God's destruction brought upon their lives simply because they left your church. No one slashed your tires, they didn't slap your wife or even kick your dog; they just left your church because you had become abusive just like your counterparts.

In the same manner that people preached loyalty to "Davis and the NTCC" after the Denis split, Oberhauser was said to have preached for about two months on loyalty to himself and the NTCC. This is also what the brother told us.

Oberhauser would also say to the church that "no one had voted him in and no one was going to vote him out." Ironically he actually did get voted out when the NTCC leadership replaced him with Hunt: the very man whom Oberhauser had replaced previously. Here is the funny part. A few years earlier, Hunt had left the church in Columbus and was replaced by Oberhauser because Hunt said that God never called him to be in Columbus in the first place. Hunt said God had called him to Montgomery Alabama. Hunt said that Denis had tricked him into coming to Columbus and that is why he hadn't followed the call of God directing him to Montgomery. Then guess what happens just a few years later? Oberhauser runs the church into the dirt and apparently God changes his mind about Hunt being needed in Montgomery because Hunt came right back to Columbus to replace Oberhauser. I guess God couldn't figure out what to do with Hunt or Oberhauser for that matter. I know the NTCC leadership will say that Oberhausers time was up in Columbus anyway. That is garbage because Oberhauser was a failure in Columbus and the NTCC leadership knows it. Didn't Oberhauser go back to Graham? That is what the church members were told. The NTCC is a joke. I posted information on FACTNet a while back concerning the complete debacle that existed within the Southeastern NTCC church region. Here is the link.

http://www.factnet.org/vbforum/showthread.php?t=12458

Back to the smear campaign. Oberhauser told this married couple that my marriage was in shambles. He also told them that I loved my house more than I loved God, and that is why my family left his church. Oberhauser told this couple that I was quote "greedy". Do yourself a favor NTCC folks. At all costs, avoid telling your NTCC pastor any of your personal or marriage buisness because all they will ever do is use it against you. The NTCC pastor will blab it to every church member he has, if you ever leave his church. He will do that to discredit you and your spouse. Lets get something straight here. My wife and I had plenty of very serious disagreements while we were in the NTCC. She was absolutely opposed to going to the NTCCs school of rules AKA bible school, and as time went on she fought me every step of the way and I thank God. You can best believe this subject in itself caused many problems between us. I thank God we never did leave to go the the NTCC school of ridiculous rules and abuse, and I give my wife much credit for that very fact.

Since Oberhauser had lost and or ran off about 85% of his church, money problems plagued him. He had to get a job as a result. He preached / blasted this husband about buying his wife gifts vs giving more money to the church. As you all know NTCCs tactic is to divide and conquer if they suspect that a spouse is straddling the fence. Oberhauser would suggest that this mans wife should come secondary to the church and as a result undo stress was placed on their marriage.

Jeff

Oberhauser’s Bully Pulpit Antics

Thread #46 My wife posted this on FACTNet over a year ago in responce to a post that I had written about the Oberhausers. It is relivent to the previous thread as it also relates to the Oberhauser family.

My wife wrote...

My husband Jeff is way too nice Bro. Oberhauser, I agree that you owe your wife an apology. (Bear with me as I give more details)

HERE’S THE REST OF THE STORY. The beggars were a man, two women and a baby. Church was over and everyone was outside. While Sis. Oberhauser was inside the church with the young woman, the man and the older woman were out sitting in the car joking and laughing. Bro. Oberhauser, my family and everyone else standing outside saw this plainly. My family was already in our van getting ready to drive away. Sis. Oberhauser got the van keys and started heading for their van. At that point, my husband beckoned for Bro. Oberhauser who came over and explained that he was not going to give the people money, but was sending his wife to follow them to the gas station to pay for $5 in gas. (WHAT?) My husband at that point said he did not like this situation and told Bro. Oberhauser that we would follow his wife if it was okay with him. Bro. Oberhauser stayed back at the church.

Once at the station, Sis. Oberhauser seemingly was about to pull up beside the beggars at the pump and Jeff quickly motioned for her to park directly in front of the store. We pulled up beside her and he either vocally or through hand gestures told her to just go on inside and pay for the gas. When she came out, Jeff told her (and I can’t remember his exact words) that she just needed to leave at this point.

One Week Later. I went to the Sunday night service alone because my husband was staying home with our son. Bro. Oberhauser was standing outside and stopped me before I walked in by saying something like “You can just get on down the road now”. I looked at him puzzled and asked him what did he say. He repeated similarly “You can just go on and hit the road now”. At my second puzzled expression he began to explain that those words or something similar had been spoken by Jeff to his wife. He asked me if I remember Jeff saying those things. I told him I didn’t remember exactly what Jeff had said to Sis. Oberhauser and that he needed to ask Jeff. Bro. Oberhauser then went on to tell me (in a very clipped tone) that he didn’t talk to his wife like that and don’t allow others to speak to her in that manner. He asked if Jeff talks to me that way. He indicated that perhaps the change he was noticing in me was due to problems with my husband. He asked if Jeff was abusive, etc. I answered no and that any changes he might perceive had nothing to do with my family life. He called his wife over, who was talking to someone in the parking lot, to verify what he was saying. Bro. Oberhauser then told me that he would talk to Jeff about this face to face and did not want me to mention it to him. I foolishly agreed to do that. To Jeff: I apologize.

Well Bro. Oberhauser, I kept my word but you didn’t. I waited everyday for Jeff to say something about your promised face-to-face discussion, but it didn’t happen. About two weeks later, Jeff got his face-to-face discussion in a Sunday Morning sermon. Imagine that! As I sat there listening to Oberhauser go on and on about how you should talk to people and not offending people with your words, I never saw any alarm register on my husband’s face. On the way home, I asked my husband if Oberhauser had talked to him about the above mentioned situation. He said no. I then told Jeff about my conversation with the Oberhausers and that I felt this morning’s “introductory message” was for him.

To date, Bro. Oberhauser has yet to “defend his wife’s honor”. Firstly Bro. Oberhauser, you owe your wife an apology for sending her into that situation alone. A policeman friend and brother here in the city can give you countless situations of good Samaritans being victimized all the time by scam artists. The handful (literally) of people standing outside of the church was more important to you than the safety of your wife. Where were your priorities? Can you spell
B-A-D J-U-D-G-M-E-N-T ?

Secondly, you made my husband the ogre in the whole situation. He was only trying look out for YOUR WIFE, something you failed to do. So what if he spoke with urgency to her during a time when a seemingly innocent situation could turn bad in a moment. Then to add insult to injury, you nailed him from the pulpit. Maybe you had taken the time to see your fault in the matter and wanted to avoid having Jeff enlighten you on your bad judgment. Who knows?

Thirdly, you confronted me when I was alone about a displeasure you had with my husband. You vented your anger towards Jeff to me. You attempted to villainize Jeff in our marital relationship under the disguise of giving me pastoral counseling. If that wasn’t enough, you requested that I betray my husband and not tell him about any of it because you wanted to talk to him “face to face”. As I said before, I foolishly agreed to that. Maybe I was so uncomfortable at that point, I would agree to anything to end the conversation. Nevertheless, I was wrong. Bro. Oberhauser you pitted me against my husband at that point and THAT WAS WRONG!

Admitting wrong when it’s plainly before your face is a bit much for many NTCC ministers. How truly sad it is. And that’s the rest of the story. Good day. (ph)

Mrs Collins

True Stories To Come From Ex Columbus Georgia NTCC Church Members

Thread #45 ********NEW INFORMATION WRITTEN AT THE BOTTOM************

I received a call last night from a couple who left the Columbus GA NTCC quite a few months back. Boy did they have some horrible stories to tell. As it turns out the Oberhausers proved to be just as abusive as so many other NTCC ministers that I had the displeasure of becoming acquainted with. This thread could turn out to be quite lengthy because Oberhauser did much damage as the church pastor. Whats new? Oberhauser fell way behind his contemporaries as an effective preacher / orator, but he made up much ground in other areas such as thoroughly incorporating all the abusive practices that NTCC preachers have become quite well known for.

I know what you are thinking. Mild mannered Oberhauser? Surely not. The NTCC can take the most mild mannered person and turn them into a real monster which is exactly what happened with Oberhauser. Just like so many wives of abusive pastors, Mrs. Oberhauser faithfully stood by his side and cheered him on while he raked his church members across the coals. My wife and I have totally lost respect for both of them. The way they treated their church members was totally uncalled for. I will be very careful to write exactly what I was told, and there were more than one or two witness. There were three which is just the way the NTCC likes it. You know; biblical and all.

You may be asking? Why would Jeff want expose the Oberhausers and how is that possibly the right thing to do? You need to ask Oberhauser the same question before you judge me, because quite apparently Oberhauser did everything in his power to smear, discredit, and assassinate the character of me and my wife after our departure from his church. We were told of such things by three different people who stayed in his church after we left. If everything works out, I will give the explicit and accurate details later this evening so stay tuned.

Here is one thing Oberhauser said. My friend asked Oberhauser about the Kekel land deal. Oberhauser told my friend that RWD had bought the land and that "he" RWD had given it to Kekel. Oberhauser also told my friend that RWD didn't want anyone else to get the land such as another family member in the event that RWD died. Oberhauser said as a result RWD gave it to Kekel in order to alleviate that possibility.

Now I asked my friend for clarification and my friend firmly affirmed that his recollection of Oberhausers explanation about the land deal was accurate. I was also told the same thing by yet another person who is still in the Columbus church. First thing; Oberhausers explanation was totally false. RWD did in fact NOT give the land to Kekel. The land was already in the NTCC's name so it was given to Kekel by the NTCC INC. as a gift. It was not given by RWD. Olson signed his name approving the land gift to Kekel donated by the New Testament Christian Churches of America Incorporated, NOT RWD. The statutory warranty deed proves what I have said. Here is a link. http://www.scribd.com/doc/11648899/Mc-Kekels-Land-Gift-From-Ntcc

Secondly, with that being factually the case, Oberhauser was also wrong with his expansion about RWD not wanting his family to get the land. They couldn't have gotten it because it was already in the corporations name and consequently corporate property. That explanation was bogus to say the least. Oberhausers entire explanation was bogus. These NTCC ministers can not be trusted at all.

Jeff

NTCC Pastors Taking Their Liberties With Another Man's Family Members

Thread #44 The point of Diana's post was two fold: 1: Be careful when an NTCC preacher says that God told him something. That occurrence most likely never happened. 2: Don't let an NTCC pastor take or assume authority over your family. The husband is the head of the family not the NTCC pastor. NTCC pastors have no business ordering around other men's wives or calling their children to question them. These NTCC pastors have totally overstepped their bounds.

My wife just reminded me of a perfect example. When we were in the church in Atlanta, my wife and I used to simultaneously drive both of our vehicles all over Atlanta to pick folks up for church services. The vast majority of members in the Atlanta church at that time didn't even own a vehicle, or if they did it was constantly breaking down which was the case with two brothers that come to mind. So as a result, the pastor wanted me to run my two vehicles into the ground so to speak. We were spending an extensive amount of money just getting folks back and forth to church because Atlanta was a big city and in addition to that, we lived about 25 min from the church before we even left to pick up the first soul. My family frequently traveled to church separately with my wife picking up people in thug infested ghettos. I decided to put a stop to the two vehicle church delivery business.

I called pastor Mayers and explained to him that I was intending to discontinue the practice of driving two separate vehicles to church at the same time. He got upset to say the least. (Just for information, at that time Mayers rarely if ever used his van to pick folks up for church but he had no problem with me using both of my vehicles.) I proceeded to tell him that I was the one who paid for the insurance, registration, and cost of upkeep and it was my responsibility to balance my budget and assets. I also told him that I had heard RWD preach about financial management and as a result I determined that I was not effectively managing my finances and assets if I allowed that practice to continue. Boy did he get mad. Mayers had gotten in the habit of giving my wife instructions without consulting me first. Then I put the icing on the cake. I told him that if he wanted my wife to pick folks up for church he was to consult me first. I gave my wife the same instructions. I had decided that to allow another man to order my wife around was no longer an option and it was going to stop for two reasons: the man was abusive like too many other NTCC pastors, and she was my wife not his.

So later on my wife was in one of his Sunday school meetings. Mayers had asked my wife if she would agree to teach Sunday school full time while taking his wife, the other minister's wife, and the other ministers off the roster completely because they were tired of teaching Sunday school. My wife refused to give him an answer before she consulted me which was the "RIGHT ANSWER". Mayers then proceeded to grill my wife for an answer on at least three more occasions during the meeting. Once again Mayers got extremely upset about my wife refusing to give him an answer. On the way home she informed me of what had happened. Once at home, I called Mayers to inform him that my wife was no longer going to teach Sunday school at all. For the next three services he blasted my wife across the pulpit. While preaching he said things like, "just because you wear a dress and play the piano doesn't mean you're saved" and "some people here think they are too good to teach Sunday school" and "some folks don't want anything to do with those snotty nose kids" and "if you don't want to do it I don't need you because I have other people who can" and "thank you sister so and so for answering the call of God because some folks don't want to"!!!!! I should have left his church for good in the middle of the first blasting which would have prevented the subsequent ones from ever taking place. I have great regrets in that regard. Believe it or not I have forgiven Mayers but I WILL never forget and I firmly realize that he has no business remaining as a pastor over anyone.

So the moral of the story is don't let some sorry NTCC minister like RWD or Kekel or Mayers or any of the rest of them tell your wives or family members a single solitary thing unless you are present. And husbands, if you don't agree with what the pastors have to say to your family, then shut them down because it is highly improbable that their directives came from God in the first place.

Jeff