Original thread posted on 3/27/09 Thread #9 Believe it or not I gave this sensitive issue some thought before I decided to to highlight some recent information that was posted concerning the CEO / leader of the NTCC. Specifically Mr. Mike Kekel who is the NTCC CEO. That title classifies him as someone who "should" be considered a leader. Mr. Kekel has recently decided to attack a few people in writing, and as a result someone decided to pull the proverbial plug on him and post some alarming information.
For starters, I didn't know that the NTCC condoned such behavior as a 24 year old man physically playing with the body of a 15 year old girl. For that matter they shouldn't be condoning 23 or 24 year old men even dating 14 or 15 year old girls. Well these are the kind of things that come to the forefront when you back a cat up against a wall. Most cats come out fighting and that is what you will find, if you read Vic Johanson's statement in one of the earlier threads. Below is a portion of what Vic wrote. Sometimes it's a good idea to be careful who's daughter you attack in writing because they may decide to flip the script on you Mr. Kekel. Vic should know; he was quite close to Mike back then. Early in this thread Vic made a correction concerning the age estimates so I made a correction here as well. According to Vic, Tanya was about 15 years old and Mike was about 24 years old when Mike mentioned to Vic and others that Mike and Tanya had been getting very CLOSE to each other physically, i.e. touching and fondling and such.
Most Fathers would go to the door with a shotgun to meet a 24 year old man if such a 24 year old came a calling on his 15 year old daughter. My daughter is a teen and she needs to be focused on school work, not 24 year old men or any other men for that matter. My daughter needs to learn to take care of herself because a dude won't necessarily always be around as is evidenced by the NTCC's divorce rate. Also, some men die, so where does that put your daughter? Struggling and destitute and Mike wrote that it's not the NTCC's biblical responsibility to take care of her if she has ANY family members still living because in such cases she wouldn't be considered "a widow in deed". The NTCC leadership doesn't care about a girls academic progress because they are only interested in marrying their young daughters off to grown men with the hope that he will always be there to take care of her. This has quite often proven not to be the case throughout the NTCC's history. Typical evidence of a CULT. At the time it didn't seem to bother old RWD that his 14 or 15 year old daughter was dating a 23 or 24 year old man, but a guilty conscience often dictates the decisions of men.
Vic wrote...
"Bro Johnson, maybe you could ask Mike about the premarital grope sessions he had with Tanya in the church office when she was about 15 and he was in his 20s, since he seems to be so concerned about the immoral behavior of others. It happened, and not only did he boastfully admit it to me and his other dorm mates, he also justified it when we expressed our consternation. What a piece of work. Of course, when a concerned brother went to RW over it, nothing happened. I guess the "apostle" could relate to that kind of behavior."
Now you have the rest of the story. Holy, Schmoly. You wonder why I left the NTCC? I got tired of following a bunch of fake, abusive, hypocrites. Just more lies of the devil I suppose? You decide. Let Mike tell it and he will say that the things we write are no more than a bunch of lies. Mike said "they didn't go there" before they were married. Didn't go where? That was a good duck and dodge response if I've ever saw one. A complete idiot could see right through that response. I have no reason to doubt these testimonies for one second after all the garbage that I experienced in the NTCC. I got jumped all over by an NTCC pastor for talking to a GROWN woman on the phone. I should have told that pastor to kiss my forth point of contact. In Airborne terms that would be your rear end. That is supposed to be the forth point of your body that makes contact with the ground during your landing or (PLF), after you jump out of an airplane with a parachute.
Jeff
42 comments:
I should note that she was more like 15 and he 24 when the groping was confirmed; still jail bait, though. Their relatioship started when she was around 13, and I don't know how quickly it got physical. The thing that was disturbing wasn't so much that he had given in to his passions; that's human and quite forgiveable. What was troubling at the time was that not only did he boast of these escapades, he also defiantly proclaimed that he had no intentions of repenting. When Mike found out that the other brother's conscience had led him to unburden himself to RW, he went ranting and raving "There goes my ministry!" But he needn't have worried; there was just some mild admonition to quit playing footsies at the restaurant or some other such nonsense, and that was it. Anyone else would have been publicly ridiculed and kicked out of the BS for it, but we know that the rules are bent when it suits the "apostle."
The anonymous Whirlwind postings reveal Mike Kekel's cowardly disposition. No one with any character says the things he said without standing behind his words. He never came forward; Brian Pelfrey outed him and he finally admitted it himself. This is the kind of person representative of NTCC's leadership: a conniving and two-faced Machiavellian wannabe. Now he's trying to reinvent himself and NTCC, but it won't wash with those who know their history.
If even the publicans and harlots go into the Kingdom before the Pharisees, then my daughter (who is certainly no harlot) is far ahead of him in line. A bit of well-earned cursing hardly compares to the wholesale abuse Mike has dished out on others for years.
Victor:
I am glad that you gave clarification here. Even though legally 13 and 15 year old girls are both considered minors, there is a difference if it amounts to nothing other than age.
What bothers me is that Mike Kekel is constantly refering to folks who have left the NTCC as people who are being controlled by the "evil one" and folks just can't seem to get right and on and on and on. His underlying sentiment about us exNTCCers is that we just all need to "get right with God" and he is already there. Well buddy whether the girl was 13 or 15 when he started feeling her up is of little consequence. It is evidence that at times Mike Kekel has been no different than what he classifies as a common sinner and he even tried to justify it.
I was in Germany and pastor Ramirez jumped all over me because I talked to a "WOMAN" on the phone who was attending the NTCC church that I attended in Germany. She was a grown woman in the military and she had recently accepted Christ. "She definitely wasn't 13 or 15 years old." Anyway, Ramirez would send me to pick her up for church in a completely different town than the church and as a result we were alone with each other until we got to church and Ramirez knew it when he sent me on the mission to pick her up. We never so much as even held hands with each other but Ramirez went through the roof when he found out from another sister in the church that we had talked on the phone with each other. She also had given me a thank you card for me going WAY out of my way to pick her up for church. Ramirez went nuts. Ramirez actually told me that he wouldn't recommend that I attend the NTCC Bible school because of this insignificant incident.
Talking of the phone to another grown Military member of the opposite sex was a problem? It wasn't a problem for Mike Kekel to remain in the NTCC bible school after he played with RWD's young daughter. I don't care if she was 18!! I got jumped all over for a phone call to a grown sister and we never even touched each other. You've got to be kidding me but guess what; I didn't know it at the time but Ramirez saved me from unwittingly leaving the military and going to a sorry bible school where I no doubt would here stories of grown men like Kekel groping a 15 year old girl and getting away with it because she was RWD's daughter.
Once again can you say double standard? Kekel got away with that but I got jumped all over and refused admission to a sorry bible school because I called a grown woman on the phone who was in the service just like I was.
Jeff Collins
ALL,
Good Blessings to you!! Lets see how Kekel responds to this mess, read below, I left out names but If I get slammed for wanting to date an attractive sister in NTCC and "forgeting" to ask permission, Mr. Kekel is without excuse!!
Bro Johnson
Mr Kekel,
Good Morning!
Can you please clear up or set the record straight on another question:
Did you have an illegitimate affair with your wife when she was 15 and you were 24?
Your dorm mate(s) at Bible School at the time are posting alarming information:
"Bro Johnson, maybe you could ask Mike about the premarital grope sessions he had with Tanya in the church office when she was about 13 and he was in his 20s, since he seems to be so concerned about the immoral behavior of others. It happened, and not only did he boastfully admit it to me and his other dorm mates, he also justified it when we expressed our consternation. What a piece of work. Of course, when a concerned brother went to RW over it, nothing happened. I guess the "apostle" could relate to that kind of behavior".
"I didn't know that the NTCC condoned such behavior as a 20+ year old man physically playing with the body of a 15 year old girl".
"I should note that she was more like 15 and he 24 when the groping was confirmed; still jail bait, though. Their relationship started when she was around 13, and I don't know how quickly it got physical. The thing that was disturbing wasn't so much that he had given in to his passions; that's human and quite forgivable. What was troubling at the time was that not only did he boast of these escapades, he also defiantly proclaimed that he had no intentions of repenting. When Mike found out that the other brother's conscience had led him to unburden himself to RW, he went ranting and raving "There goes my ministry!" But he needn't have worried; there was just some mild admonition to quit playing footsies at the restaurant or some other such nonsense, and that was it. Anyone else would have been publicly ridiculed and kicked out of the BS for it, but we know that the rules are bent when it suits the "apostle."
I just wanted to bring this to your attention.
Bro Johnson
ALL -
From MC Kekel:
To MLJ:
Hi; Well, thanks for that. I was not trying to arouse his wrath, only set the record straight on WW with you because you referred to it and only had their take. My he's so defensive. Remember, I was on the defense of my Pastor, not scrutinizing Vic's moral standing nor attacking his daughter to begin with. I'm not sure why you passed on the correspondence, but you must have a good reason and that's okay I guess. But to answer; absolutely not, that is ridiculous. We didn't 'go there' until Oct. 8, 1983 (the wedding date).
Well Vic: Someone is lying here... Let me spell it out because I like to be very specific and I am not trying to sound condescending however there is a method to my madness.
I have talked with Vic on the phone about this and Vic has also posted this allegation about Mike Kekel. The first time Vic told me of this episode was about a year ago when we talked with each other on the phone. Mike categorically denies that Vic’s allegation is true. Someone is "DEFINITELY LYING" because there is no middle ground here.
If Vic is lying; what you have here is just another lie of the devil made by as they say yet another bitter exNTCCer. If Mike is lying what you have is a serious breakdown in trust that "must" exist between Mike Kekel and the ENTIRE New Testament Christian Church. Mike holds 3 very prominent positions in the NTCC so this should be taken very seriously.
I have one question and some serious food for thought. Why would Victor originally state that Tanya was "About" 13 years old when it happened and then come back to give clarification by stating for the record that Tanya was more like 15. Why would he even waist his time with clarification if it was all just a lie? People; someone lying would have no reason to go and think about it and then return to set the record straight. There would be no point in doing that if it was all just a lie. Vic would have left the original statement standing with Tanya being "ABOUT 13" and that would have been the end of it.
Read all of Victor’s statements and look at the level headed approach that Victor consistently uses when making a statement and he has done that all along. Mikes statements however are consistently full of loop holes, and as I have previously highlighted and proven, Mike’s statements are also full of falsehoods.
All you have to do is read Mike’s statements and see for yourself how he regularly denies having knowledge and or involvement with all the junk that we know takes place in the NTCC.
It should come as no mystery that “I” would conclude with the verdict that to the best of my sincere judgment, I believe that Mike Kekel has willfully and deliberately not told the truth in response to Vic’s allegation.
Jeff.
Jeff Collins said...
Well Vic: Someone is lying here...
I agree that someone is lying. If you read Kekel's response he didn't exactly address the allegation.
Mike said...
"We didn't 'go there' until Oct. 8, 1983 (the wedding date)."
The response I was looking for should have been I never touched her in any way shape or form and Vic is a bold face liar.
Having said that I'm not saying Kekel is lying but it should be interesting how this unfolds.
Mike should have defined "go there"
According to what I pulled up on the internet Tanya Kekel is currently 42 years old and Mike Kekel is currently 51. I am not sure how accurate the internet age search was. I do know it has to be close because I just talked to Vic. So depending of her date of birth she was around 17 or had just turned 17 when she was married being that Mike said that their wedding date was Oct 8, 1983. So she was definitely 16 or probably younger when they started having interest in each other. Is 15 unreasonable? Absolutely not; in fact it is quite reasonable and probable and quite likely that she was even younger than that. Vic just told me she was younger than 15 when they started having interest in each other.
It is certainly a cultic practice to marry young girls off to older men.
This basic mathematical conclusion gives even more credibility to Victors statement. Who in the world hasn't previously touched the girl that they had interest in marrying? Come on; that certainly isn't uncommon for anyone to do and for certain it is not uncommon for Christians either you holier than thou folks.
Now that I have done the math I don't doubt what Vic wrote for one second. The question is what was RWD doing allowing his 15 year old daughter to take interest in a 24 year old man. Nothing wrong with being 9 years older than your wife but what about a 22 year old being interested in a 13 year old and specifically that being allowed by RWD or a 24 year old being interested in a 15 year old and that being allowed by RWD because that fact can not be denied.
Jeff
Vic Johnanson said...
"But to answer; absolutely not, that is ridiculous. We didn't 'go there' until Oct. 8, 1983 (the wedding date)."
Weasel Words (from Wikipedia):
Weasel words is an informal term for words that are ambiguous and not supported by facts. They are typically used to create an illusion of clear, direct communication.
Weasel words are usually expressed with deliberate imprecision with the intention to mislead the listeners or readers into believing statements for which sources are not readily available....
The expression weasel word derives from the egg-eating habits of weasels. An egg that a weasel has sucked will look intact to the casual observer, while actually being empty. Similarly, words or claims that turn out to be empty upon analysis are known as "weasel words". The expression first appeared in Stewart Chaplin's short story Stained Glass Political Platform (published in 1900 in The Century Magazine),[1] in which they were referred to as "words that suck the life out of the words next to them, just as a weasel sucks the egg and leaves the shell."
In the political sphere, this type of language is used to "spin" or alter the public's perception of an issue. In 1916, Theodore Roosevelt argued that "one of our defects as a nation is a tendency to use ...'weasel words'; when one 'weasel word' is used ... after another there is nothing left."
Perhaps Mike takes semantic issue with regard to my use of the word "grope." Fair enough; he didn't actually use that term when describing his cleandestine actions with the "apostle's" daughter. Perhaps he said "making out," or one of the more modern and less graphic terms. He did, however describe in titillating detail the overpowering physical sensations which coursed through his body while they were doing whatever it is he wants to call it--something about how this uncontrollable passion would literally take possession of him (or something similar; it was 25 years ago and I didn't have a tape recorder with me, but you get the gist; it made enough of an impression that I haven't been able to forget it).
The bottom line is that he hasn't denied the substance of what I have shared; he's merely using his spinmeister tactics to make it look that way. Weasel words. Whether you say groping, making out, petting, kissing, or necking, what they were doing was definitely forbidden by NTCC rules, if not the bible itself. And again, the behavior itself isn't nearly as troubling as the defiant attitude he had about it then (or his present attempts at coverup).
"Remember, I was on the defense of my Pastor, not scrutinizing Vic's moral standing nor attacking his daughter to begin with."
I fail to see how spreading false and malicious gossip about my daughter doesn't constitute an attack, and what relevence it could possibly have in defending RW.
The reason this coward posted anonymously as The_Whirlwind was that he didn't have enough character to be a man about it. When one accuses another of conduct he has engaged in himself, he can't really be too public about it.
In other words, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Hmm.. I had one friend get married at 16 - started dating at just shy of 15. One friend got married at 18 - started dating at 16. An 18 year old friend of mine married a 16 year old. Hmmm... garners questions, huh?
jm
Forgot to mention - the 16 year old girl's husband was 7 years her senior, the 18 year old girl's husband was 10 years her senior.
jm
JM, are you a mormon?
t
Jeff, after thinking about it, jm may have just been kidding around
i have a 15 year old daughter and if a 24 yr old started 'harassing' her i would introduce him to my 2 friends "smith" and "wesson"
: )
but on a serious note, it reveals the perverted perception of rw to allow his daughter to get so involved with a man that old and then not deal with him after being told about the "groping sessions"
he wouldn't be doing that to my daughter!!!
then of all things bragging about it, like she is some kind of two bit whore, he obviously had no respect for her or rw and has used them to gain wealth only
i don't know who is worse rw or kekel, at least rw was straight up in a way
t
I think that JM is saying he or she had friends in NTCC that were married off as adolescents to older men, and that this garners questions about the org. Sounds to me like confirmation of what we're discussing here: the exploitation of young girls by a corrupt and degenerate religious group. It's common practice there, just like in other abusive groups like the fundamental Mormons.
Am I right, JM?
Vic
on the other hand, maybe jm is from West Virginia!!!
"then of all things bragging about it, like she is some kind of two bit whore, he obviously had no respect for her or rw and has used them to gain wealth only"
When it happened, it did remind me of some kind of frat-boy locker room dialogue, and I'm sure Tanya would have been mortified to know he was boasting to us like she was just another conquest. Maybe he was lying then, trying to look like Joe Stud, and now he's telling the truth. The truth is complex and malleable when in the hands of an expert NTCC prevaricator. Either way, he either flat-out lied about it back then, or else he's creatively managing the truth now.
one thing is for certain: Tanya knows the truth and when she reads this thread she is going to be mortified either way.......probably won't be to much "groping" for a while after this
Vic posted: "…ask Mike about the premarital grope sessions he had with Tanya in the church office when she was about 13 and he was in his 20s, since he seems to be so concerned about the immoral behavior of others. It happened, and not only did he boastfully admit it to me and his other dorm mates, he also justified it when we expressed our consternation. What a piece of work. Of course, when a concerned brother went to RW over it, nothing happened. I guess the "apostle" could relate to that kind of behavior"."
Vic also posted: “I should note that she was more like 15 and he 24 when the groping was confirmed; still jail bait, though. Their relationship started when she was around 13, and I don't know how quickly it got physical. The thing that was disturbing wasn't so much that he had given in to his passions; that's human and quite forgivable. What was troubling at the time was that not only did he boast of these escapades, he also defiantly proclaimed that he had no intentions of repenting.”
Do we still have to always add the caveat 'if this happened' when commenting on every new allegation? New allegations almost 6 years after NTCC’s September 2003 debut on FACTNet? Though, what does it matter, if Rev. Kekel did it, it need not be questioned. Plus, Pastor Davis put his stamp of full approval on every aspect of Rev. and Sis. Kekel’s relationship, as is evidenced by the fact Pastor Davis allowed them to marry (they had to get legal parental permission to marry, because of Sis. Kekel’s age, not because Rev. Kekel was 10 years her senior). This specific established ‘fact’ of Organizational approval of ‘questionable’ behaviors/motives/desires/etc.’ directed toward children is not new, though the fact Rev. Kekel is now identified as ‘one’ of the partakers of this not forbidden ‘fruit’ is.
It is amazing the volume of verifiable and well corroborated condemnatory witness there is against NTCC. What is equally amazing is the paucity of refutation (and any substantive volume of positive testimony regarding NTCC) emanating from within its’ ranks. To date, the majority of positive things said about NTCC have come from those without, and commenting on NTCC’s culture and customs…the NTCC labeled ‘enemies’ of this Organization. When at least one other person weighs in with a corroboration of Rev. Kekel’s ‘alleged’ normal behavior towards a very young (barely post pubescent) girl, it will be a Biblically established fact. NTCC’s long standing requirement of a witness being ‘of equal or greater character’ can be met by anyone in human society, because, as we have seen, and continue to observe unraveling, NTCC has set the bar quite low regarding integrity, character, morality, etc…in this NTCC is completely assailable by the common unregenerated man, and therefore truly the church for the common unregenerated man. As NTCC likes to proclaim, “Come as you are”…you will be accepted, you don’t have to inwardly change, as is modeled by NTCC’s most senior leadership.
How Rev. Kekel reacted when he found out he was 'outed' to Pastor Davis shows Rev. Kekel ignorantly ‘thought’ what he was doing was wrong (both morally and legally…Dake was prosecuted and found guilty of this same behavior; what an injustice), and should have disqualified him for the ministry…again, in his own erroneous opinion. The fact that he boasted about this further shows he had/has no shame (Why should he?) for fellowshipping with (some would say molesting) a barely pubescent Tanya, and even reveled in his education (some would say corruption), and honoring (some would say degrading), of this young girl, and her family, and ‘teaching’ others to do the same by his example…i.e. teaching anyone (other than Pastor Davis who already knows, and who has always shown he is wise beyond his years regarding what is acceptable behavior) who would have rightfully accepted his behavior. The haters of God may say, if Tanya had been smitten with a quality boy, she ‘may’ have become a different (some would say better) woman. I say ‘may’ because Pastor Davis is her only other male role model, albeit an ‘adult’ one.
As we have seen (by observing who is talking to whom on the 'wall') this normal/acceptable behavior of twenty something men courting (some would say preying upon) young teenage girls, goes on to this day, with the approval (even encouragement) of Pastor Davis, and the parents of these legally (not all laws are just) underage girls. I have also been privy to twenty something men boasting of their desire to ‘corrupt’ a young girl/girls within NTCC. At the time, this elicited a look of disgust and the statement (from me), of “That’s disgusting!” or words to that effect, before I walk away. To which the perpetrator usually responds (usually to my back) with the roll call of others who have previously gone down this same perfectly normal path. Interestingly, Rev. Kekel’s name never came up. I never reported these instances because this perverted (what I thought at the time) behavior is well known, and accepted, by the leadership of NTCC…and if I had known Rev. Kekel had also been a partaker of this previously forbidden (at least in my mind) ‘fruit’ I would not have been so critical. I apologize for my reaction in this regard. If anyone is interested I (and others) can enumerate other marriages (within NTCC) that are the by-product of a normal, and healthy, relationship between a young girl and a man…many (most) of them even younger than Tanya’s 16 years.
So, Rev. Kekel was one of the (or the) trailblazers of the acceptance of this behavior within NTCC? Who would have thunk it? Again, there is now no need to ‘report’ this to Pastor Davis as this behavior has long been well entrenched in NTCC’s ‘child bride’ (some would say ‘child abuse’) culture. Since Rev. Kekel has done it, his behavior should be a normal part of any healthy church; someone should get the word out…maybe on NTCC’s official web site? Maybe current law could be changed, given enough activism from within God’s church (NTCC)? Pastor Davis routinely says, “You make the rules!”…Maybe Rev. Kekel is the reason NTCC has the ‘wall?’
Rev. Kekel stated to MLJ, by way of explanation/justification, “But to answer; absolutely not, that is ridiculous. We didn't 'go there' until Oct. 8, 1983 (the wedding date).” Though, Vic never stated or intimated Rev. and Sister Kekel had intercourse, or ‘go there’ as Rev. Kekel states (some would say sophomorically states) before they were legally married, the fact that Rev. Kekel provided any answer, irrelevant though it is in some peoples eyes, is enough for me. Vic should be ashamed. I now envy Rev. Kekel and “…the overpowering physical sensations which coursed through his body while they were doing whatever it is he wants to call it,” and “…this uncontrollable passion would literally take possession of him (or something similar…). My wife and I ignorantly never so much as held hands until our wedding day/night, even though we were both in our 30’s. Maybe uncontrollable pre-marital sexual enthusiasm is something only young girls can generate in a man in his mid-to-late 20’s, as my wife and I had no problem keeping our hands to ourselves before marriage. Also, the fact that Rev. Kekel slandered Vic’s daughter is Biblically acceptable (I’m surprised Vic doesn’t know this) as it was in defense of Pastor Davis, just as Rev. Kekel shares. This makes perfect sense, yet Vic’s hate for NTCC makes him blind to the great mass of unassailable logic which emanates from the leadership of NTCC, which completely/satisfactorily explains/justifies NTCC’s conduct for the past four decades.
I can only hope Rev. Kekel keeps the explanations coming, as he has the enemies of NTCC (and therefore the enemies of God) in full retreat, due to the incontrovertible power of his explanations on his weblog and his emails to honest seekers, as any God loving Christian can see.
It may be of interest to note Sister Kekel was 16, and Rev. Kekel 26, when Rev. Kekel ‘went there.’ Their October 8, 1983 wedding date may have some significance, as it was right before Sis. Kekel’s birthday. Maybe Pastor Davis wanted to emphasize the ‘rightness’ of their age difference, and therefore their relationship, by having the wedding a scant 2 weeks before her 17th birthday. Again, years ago, I would have thought this disgusting, but no more, as I have seen the light. I am obviously old fashioned and not as sophisticated/worldly-wise/modern as Rev. Kekel and Tanya’s parents. The only reason the haters of God point this stuff out about Rev. Kekel, and company, is they are jealous; just as he always tells us. He should keep doing whatever he wants (some would say get away with), as he is accountable to no man, regardless of what the Bible is misinterpreted as saying.
As NTCC teaches us by its example…Pedophilia is such a subjective, and abused/overused, term. There is even an organization called N.A.M.B.L.A.; though this is more obviously wrong, as it involves homosexual behavior. Wikipedia tells us N.A.M.B.L.A. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAMBLA) is the largest organization in the umbrella group I.P.C.E. (http://wikisposure.com/IPCE).
Since Wikipedia has been brought up…Don’t forget to regularly check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTCC for informative updates on all things NTCC. No vandalism, please.
In His Service,
pdq
It should also be noted that Davis is from the hills of North Carolina, and his wife from Arkansas-- where they marry their cousins at 14. I'm sure this influenced their decision for Tanya. ;)
So much for the pure in heart comment that ashmore wrote about.
What father is going to allow a 14 year old girl get involved with a 21 year old? especially when this guy comes from the military and don't tell me that the military sinner guys are saints because as I recall kekel got saved in panama.
rwd apparently didn't want tanya around his house anymore that is why he let this older guy play with her. At this young age these girls are very impressionable and oh well you know the rest of the story.
So much for the history of the next in line to the nttc empire.
pdq:
How have you been. I hope everything is going fine. That was a deep post my friend. I had to put a little thought into that one. Tough to figure. Good to see you around these parts and take care.
Jeff.
Woah, guys, back up a bit. I had like 2 seconds to post, but obviously should have chosen a few better words! Never have I thought it okay for someone in their twenties (no matter early twenties or late twenties) to be messing around with a minor. I was pointing out that so many of my friends ended up marrying so young, to such older men. These were all girls and men in the NTCC. All though the question of whether or not I was mormon made me laugh - no, never was, but NTCC is close enough to it in their practice of marrying off young girls. Even at 18, I was not ready to get married. I was not mature enough to handle any kind of responsibility for myself, let alone the responsibility of carrying for a husband and subsequent children. Maybe these girls were ready or not, but regardless, the fact is that someone should start questioning pastors who encourage men to even look at young teens, let alone ask to be alone with them. I can tell you that if we have a daughter in the future, my husband will certainly not be agreeing to let any 24 year old anywhere near our 15 year old daughter, for ANY reason, interest in marriage or not. And he certainly wouldn't be allowing them any alone time together. Things happen when a couple are alone, and if he were to lay a hand on her, it would be molestation and sexual abuse - ever heard of statutory?
Sorry I came across as condoning this practice of 15 year olds and 20 something year olds ever dating let alone marrying at that age. That was definitely not my intent.
JM
I have a question. Can anyone please explain to me the fascination of a young girl still in the throws of puberty to an older man in his mid twenties? Do I have to be mentally ill to see why this makes sense? My uncle was at the store a while back, and there was a "woman" in front of him facing his way. He happened to be looking down, so when he saw her, his eyes went from the floor upwards. He liked what he saw, then saw her face. He about threw up when he realized she was a young teen, probably 14 or 15. Shouldn't this be a normal reaction? Shouldn't older men be sickened by the thought of a girl that age engaging in any kind of sexual activity? My husband and I have a close friend with a 13 year old. She just recently met a boy at school, and they are now in puppy-love stage. My husband has told our friend to forbid her to see this boy (who is only 1 year older by the way) because it totally weirds us all out that she could be even feeling anything resembling sexuality, let alone acting on it! How is this not the normal reaction? Raise of hands. How many of you 20 somethings want to marry and seduce a young teenager? Do I hear a round of "ewww" and "gross"
I shudder in disgust
JM
Hey JM.
Please forgive me because I totally misread that one. I understand now where you were coming from and without elaborating I found something in your post that I didn't realize or understand at all. Now I see things in a totally different light regarding your statements.
Take care and good to hear from you.
Sincerely,
Jeff
JM, at the risk of sounding like a pervert, I think it's natural for a man to be physically attracted to a voluptuous young woman, whether she's 15 or 30. Sorry; we're wired that way. And unfortunately these days, 15 year-olds are often trying to dress and act like they are 30. So that part doesn't trouble me so much; what troubles me is that someone would ignore their better judgment and pursue such a relationship regardless of the fact that such a girl is still basically a child. Girls like that are flattered and excited by the attention of older men; they don't realize that they're being exploited.
Men with character restrain their passions and refrain from succumbing to temptation, and fathers with character guard the virtue of their young daughters, instead of functioning as the enablers of their spoliation.
I have a friend that found out that his girl a 17 year old was talking to a 28 year old guy. His reaction was to go confront this guy for talking to this girl in the first place.
I guess as a father of girls, that is the only healthy reaction that you would get.
Another question was why were tanya and mike alone at the office and why would her father would allow that? Maybe the holy ghost told rwd that it was alright for tanya and mike to be alone in that office.
I can understand initial attraction. I can find handsomeness in teen boys, but I'm not interested in pursuing either the line of thought or anything else. It's the pursuing of said attraction when you know the person is in their mid-teens that disgusts me.
JM
I hope that my female point of view doesn't get in the way but as a young girl I used to be attracted to older males. It was a girlie thing I guess. In High School we talked about about how cute the math teacher was but it was just having a good time between girls, in the end we stuck with the guys that were our own age better. Maybe tk wanted somebody more mature because she was always around older people.
Who knows what transpired in her head to choose such an older man.
He said that he chose her because she was cute.
blovd
blovd,
The choice is not the child's, but the adult's to say no, and discourage all advances.
But, once again, maybe we just don't understand, and the laws of the land, and the Bible, are wrong.
Gregory
I agree with Greg. If you asked 10,000 fathers if they would allow their 14 or 15 year old daughter to date a 23 or 24 year old man, 9999 of them would give a resounding NO!!!! I'll guarantee it. RWD is in that .0001 percentile. I doesn't matter if a 14 girl is fascinated with a much older guy. She can be fascinated all she wants but this Daddy ain't going for it. It's not up to the child, and a 13 - 15 year old girl is a child. I have a daughter and I know how she thinks. At 13 to 15 she thinks like a child. NO DOUBT. It's not up to her, it's up to the parent. The child has no say in the matter concerning her dating a guy 9 years older than she when she is only a minor. RWD's thinking was warped when he allowed his young daughter to date a man that was about nine years older than she was.
In the United States, 14 year old girls don't date 23 year old men. If the proper authorities knew, a parent could get locked up for allowing such a thing. I didn't write the laws of the land but the Bible says we are supposed to follow them. Tanya was somewhere between 13 and 15 when she started taking a serious interest in Mike and RWD allowed it and Mike went full speed ahead with the idea. There is something definitely wrong with that whole picture.
Let a 23 year old man come to my house looking for my daughter when she is only 14 YEARS OLD!!!! Number one I would think that the dude was totally out of his mind to assume that I would allow it. I'll guarantee when I finished, he wouldn't come back at least if he knew I was around. I would probably ask the dude if he knew my daughters age and if he said 13, 14, 15, 16 or 17 and he was nine years older? I would probably just call the police on him and officially end the deal. If that didn't end the deal my shotgun being point in his general direction probably would. The next thing I would do is have a serious talk with my daughter and ask her what I did that made her believe that I would allow her to date a dude 9 years older than her when she was only 13, 14 or 15!!!
The fact is I wouldn't want her dating anyone at that age to include someone her own age. I'm not so naive as to believe that YOUNG teenagers don't find interest in the opposite sex. Of course they do and it is natural. I'm just simply as a responsible father not going to promote it and especially not with a grown man, 9 years older when she is only 14. Give me a break.
Kids are going to be kids and a 14 year old could find a way to have sex with a 16 year old just the same as she could with a 23 year old. I understand that but a 14 my daughter is going to be STRONGLY ENCOURAGED to get other things on her mind. I'm certainly not going to promote it. I'm not trying to marry my daughter off at 16 or 17 years old!!!!! Are you kidding me? That is what cult leaders do. Girls are considered to be more like possessions than humans in cults and the NTCC is just the same.
Ask 10,000 men and see what answer you get? Just ask 5 or 10. Do it every day for week or a month. I rest my case. RWD is a creep for promoting that stuff with his own daughter. A straight up creep.
Jeff
Jeff said, " I'm certainly not going to promote it."
Sassy says,
I'm certainly not going to promote it OR HIM!!!!
How did kekel become the C.E.O. of the O.R.G.?
Sounds more like an ORGy to me.
Sassy
RWD is a creep for promoting that stuff with his own daughter. A straight up creep.
Jeff, had it not been for this blog, I would have never known that Davis HAD a daughter. I recall him talking about his grandson Grant, but never a duder, I mean, daughter!
Bro Johnson
Does this really supprise anyone. For the 13 years I spent with ntcc in servicemen's homes, ntcc was a cesspool of sexual impropriety. The environment created at ntcc is one that is very condusive to sexual misconduct. First of all, 70% of the org is young men, mostly servicemen, that are not allowed to talk to members of the opposite sex without permission from the so called "pastor". What are they afraid of? That their church members would do the same thing that they would if they were in that position? The ones that are guilty of a particular sin are usually adamently against it. Why does kekel enforce such strict rules for his flock of bs students? What would happen if a single brother walked up to a single sister and asked her to go to Sonic with him for a burger and a shake? He would be cast out of ntcc bs faster than a gnats gocart going around a greased bb. Is this God? So you got the ntcc matchmaking service dictating who gets a wife and who that wife will be. Many ntcc relationships are a disaster before they even get started. Many ntcc members never get the privilege of having a wife. "Must not be God's will for that brother to get married". I was told by more than one pastor on more than one occasion that I could not talk to single sisters because they were earmarked for ntcc bs. I was separated from the woman that I shared mutual feelings of love with because after 2 months of being a church member, she was "called" to go to ntcc bs so she could be a glorified housewife. 3 years of ntcc bs and what is a woman allowed to do in the church? Wash dishes and cook. What are her credentials good for? They put themselves through 3 years of spiritual torment so they can be a slave to a super spiritual hypocrite. Boy am I feeling bitter today!!! Ok, this probably doesn't apply to every single couple in the borg, but it does apply to an alarming high percentage of couples. Look at the turn-over rate in ntcc, or the rate of divorce in ntcc, or to get back on topic the rate of sexual misconduct in ntcc. Gee whiz (oops please excuse the social curse word; I'm sure that's a worse sin than what goes on every day in your average ntcc church), isn't it amazing that when the fondling of a young girl by a 20+ year old future heir to the ntcc apostolic throne goes unnoticed and unpunished by the girls father rwd? I thought the sinful world we lived in was sick.
NTCC hypocrites, your days are numbered. Your abuse of the innocent is uncalled for and there will be a day of reckoning. Its very sad to see what has become of ntcc and the direction they have chosen to go. NTCC members, if any of this raises a red flag in your heart, seach your heart and get out while you can.
Amen. Don and Ange speak the truth.
As guys, as men, you are right in saying that you wouldn't allow your little girls to establish such a relationship with an older male. These pre-pubecent girls can't be sure what they want at such a tender age.
For all we know maybe rw wanted to marry her right away. Who knows?
All I know is that if you are familiar with mk, in his preaching he would make comments about his family life and it wasn't that good. He was practically fatherless and he didn't have a father figure in his life, I think mk was good molding material for rw.
Why get a guy that is very much involved with a "wordly" family outside the org?
blovd
blovd said...
For all we know maybe rw wanted to marry her right away.
Jeff said...
There is no doubt that RWD wanted to marry her right away. That is pretty much standard in the NTCC. RWD just pushed the envelope quite a bit where his daughter was concerned. He got Tanya started bright and early with an older man.
Jeff
This is entirely speculation but it makes a lot of sense. It definitely looks like mk has some serious dirt on rwd. I can't picture rwd sitting still while mk allows all of this new compromise to infiltrate ntcc. I imagine as soon as rwd kicks the bucket ntcc will dive completely into worldliness. mk probably has dirt on the others to or some of them would have left when the kekel kid started wearing lascivious football pants. When I was in the org a kid and his parents would have been blasted for having so much spare time on their hands to allow their kids to be involved in any type of sporting event. The teenage groping sessions are very sleazy but seem to fit the bill for what is practiced by the ntcc leadership in allowing their teen girls to marry older men. They cover up their imperfections and outwardly project an pure life, while expecting others to be perfect, and not apologizing when they change the standards to accommodate their own compromise.
Don
I don't know but it is really telling when a young immature girl lets herself be used by an older male that just came out of the army, specially when you are supposedly in a holiness church where you have been taught to have respect for God and your body which is the temple of God
blovd
Jeff,
When are you going to get a facebook and join in on the conversations over there?
I never thought about it. I hadn't considered getting a facebook for whatever reason. This may sound strange but I really don't know anything about facebook.
Is there a lot going on with facebook concerning these NTCC topics? Are NTCCers involved much? They certainly are not involved with these blogs anymore. I think Kekel ran them off with his bully pulpiteering.
Give me some info on it if you don't mind.
Jeff
There are a lot of people in ntcc, and who left, who are on fb. It's just another way to connect with people.
Personally I'm thinking about adding my paper notes I printed years ago from ntccXposed on my page since the site was hacked.
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