I've addressed this topic many times before and I remain amazed that not one person has been able to even remotely, effectively defend the NTCCs interpretation of Tts 2:5 and specifically the portion of that verse of scripture that reads "keepers at home".
Directly in front of me I have a Strong's Concordance of the Bible; specifically the "Abingdon" Strong's Concordance, copyright 1890 by James Strong. I want people to know where I'm quoting my facts from. Anyway; a New Testament Christian Church pastor suggested that I get this Strong's Concordance and that is exactly what I did, so don't expect me not to use it.
The phrase, "keepers at home" originally was not three separate words as we see written in the King James version of the Bible but in the Greek language prior to being translated into the English language it was one word, "oikoupos". The word "oikoupos" literally translated means to be domestically inclined, a good house keeper, one who takes care of household affairs, or a stayer at home. It is not translated into meaning that a woman can't have a job outside the home. If someone wants to take the one definition "STAYER AT HOME" literally and to be absolute meaning that a woman must "stay at home", then that would mean that a woman literally couldn't lawfully leave her home for any reason. That interpretation would be nonsense and absurd and it would be in direct conflict with the lifestyles that current and past NTCC women have lived all along. She couldn't leave for soul winning, she certainly couldn't leave to clean the Kekel's house or to clean the church or to go shopping for church supplies or she couldn't even leave her "HOME" to attend church service. Once again none of the definitions found in the Strong's Concordance for "keepers at home" states that a woman can't have a job outside the home. It simply does not say that, imply that, or suggest that. What it does mean is that "young" women are to be taught to take care of the household affairs, be a good house keeper and be "inclined" to spend time around her home i.e. "domestically inclined" as it is literally translated.
My wife "stays" around our home when she is not shopping or going to appointments or teaching 1st grade at the local school. That is no different than Tanya Kekel because Tanya is not "staying at home" when she is teaching at the NTCS and my wife is not "staying at home" when she is teaching 1st grade. Oh I forgot, all school teachers should be guys, right RWD? Right Kekel? Wrong and that notion would be complete nonsense. I wouldn't want my kids to attend a school where all the teachers were men. Oh I suppose that all female school teachers should either stay single or quit their teaching job as soon as they get married? That would be stupid because it's not Gods rule, it's the NTCCs rule. For every 100 male teachers you'd be lucky to have 1 woman teacher if you follow that stupid rule. What nonsense and the Bible doesn't teach that in Tts 2:5 or anywhere else. My wife doesn't have her students come over to clean our house either like Mike and Tanya. You call that getting a blessing because you clean the Kekel's house? It's sucking up, eating cheese and being used and God knows it!!!!! You ain't being blessed, you're being cursed and being used and being played like a fiddle!!!! God knows and so do I.
Now, we do want our wives to be virtuous women like we see mentioned in Proverbs 31 don't we? Of course we do if we believe the Bible. And correct me if I'm wrong but we don't believe that God contradicts himself do we? Of course not? So if women can't lawfully keep a job outside the home or work for pay outside the home, (or she will go to hell if she does) and that is what God was trying to say in Titus 2:5, then why did God (in Proverbs 31) state that a "virtuous woman" was known for doing things like and I quote Pro 31:24: "She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant"?
Selling fine linen is making money and delivering girdles to the merchant is not only making money but doing it outside the home. This is a Biblical example of a woman having a job and being considered virtuous in the process; she was hardly being considered a SINNER. The scripture said that she "delivereth". That means that she had to go outside the home, make a delivery to the merchant, and do so for money. One attribute that qualified a woman to be considered "virtuous" according to Proverbs 31 was that she did in fact make money OUTSIDE THE HOME by working on a JOB!!!!! Now this isn't just some Jeff Collins fancy play on words people, it's real and it's the Bible. I didn't write it so don't get mad a me New Testament Christian Church folks. If you have a problem with the Bible get mad a God not me, and tell God that his Bible doesn't line up with your New Testament Christian Church women not working doctrine, and you don't believe that a virtuous woman should leave her home to make money by selling merchandise and making delivery's to the merchants. Not only that but you need to tell God to change Titus 2:5 to read differently because it is supposed to read that a woman can not lawfully work outside the home for pay.
New Testament Christian Church people: RWD has taught you wrong so just admit it. If I'm wrong come on this blog or call me and prove it with the type of evidence that I just provided. Hey if you don't think a woman should have a job outside the home that's fine but don't make it a matter of heaven or hell and then try to back up your false assertion with Titus 2:5 because that dog don't hunt. Prove me wrong. The reason RWD would rather not have woman working is because having control over woman to a "Chauvinist" is way more important than having a piece of the extra money that she would make. The fact is, according to the Bible, RWD is dead wrong on this one. Prove me wrong. I challenge all you New Testament Christian Church so called scholars to prove me wrong and show me where in the bible that is says that a woman can't have a job outside the home.
Now don't misunderstand me people. There are benefits to a woman staying at home to raise non school age children. Huge benefits!!!! I have no problem with that at all and in fact I think it's great. I have no problem with women not working at all and I know that a woman not working outside the home can be a very good thing depending on the circumstances but don't make it a matter of heaven and hell with scriptures that don't support your false assertions. Especially when there are other scriptures like Proverbs 31:24 which clearly and undeniably show the exact opposite of what your church teaches. A man absolutely should work and provide for his family but that does not mean nor does it suggest anywhere in the Bible that his wife can't help him and work also "OUTSIDE" the home for pay. If you say that a woman must lawfully STAY AT HOME then this ain't Burger King and you can't have it your way when you want her to go soul winning, clean the church or Kekel's house. According to your interpretation she must STAY AT HOME and that means her own home, not Kekel's. And that would also mean that Tanya Kekel has no business teaching in your non accredited bible school because according to your interpretation she must "STAY AT HOME" literally. If a woman can lawfully go outside her home to soul win, clean the church or help clean the serviceman's home, pick up church supplies, clean the Kekel's house, then she can lawfully get a real job outside the home for pay like we see in Proverbs 31. Which way is it going to be NTCC folks? Prove me wrong, I challenge you.
False Doctrine the New Testament Christian Church way. RWD's way; control, control, control.
16 comments:
Some New Testament Christian Church people will say that Jeff is wrong because you can't take one verse of scripture like Pr 31:24 to effectively formulate an argument or develop a doctrine. They will say that Pro 31:24 in itself doesn't prove that a woman can lawfully have a job outside the home where she earns money.
Jeff says ok, if you take that stance then how did the NTCC manage to take one verse of scripture and only one, specifically Deu 22:5 to create a doctrine which mandates that women must wear dresses and men wear long pants? The NTCC used only one verse of scripture to support that rule/law? Show me another? Not only that but there are a whole lot more scriptures in the Bible that show and portray a woman working on a job outside the home. You can't have it both ways NTCC people. If you want to have a virtuous woman as seen illustrated in Pro 31, then she needs to get the selling, trading, and delivering started.
Don't tell me that means she can do it all on the internet either because when Proverbs was written there was no "internet" and not only that, RWD and his henchman used to call the internet the "SINNERNET" and "DEVILNET" and forbid that their people even use it.
It can't be a sin one day and then the next day you say that the internet is the only means that an NTCC woman can use to lawfully make money! You are creating your own false doctrines in an attempt to justify the NTCCs misinterpretation of scripture.
Do you want to be a truly virtuous woman according to the Bible? Then go get a job ladies. If you don't have kids, and all you do is spend time around your home, your not being virtuous according to the Bible, so don't be surprised when you become overweight. Look I'm being real. I didn't write Proverbs chapter 31 so don't get mad at me. Get mad at God.
Jeff
Guys,
Check out Kekel's new blog post- it is directed at me, "T"
I am honored that he is that offended by me that he feels the need to write on the topic.
For the record: I do believe very strongly in respect for elders and positions of authority.
The problem is that Kekel has disqualified himself from any respect because of his greed, selfishness and abuse of God's people.
Once again, The Bible is very clear- the hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who use and abuse God's sheep.
If Mike Kekel were a real man of character he would address the issue of the 40 acres that were given to him illegally.
Or perhaps he would do a "self-audit" to show all his brain-washed foolowers (oops) how he maintains such a luxuriant, high lifestyle while avoiding any questions regarding his earnings. ( I know, he invested in stocks-riiiiiggghhhttttt)
People- please begin looking at your lifestyle contrasted with the Kekel's lifestyle!!
Is he being honest? Is he just "blessed"? or is it something more?
Kekel is no doubt an intelligent guy, the problem is he has justified his lifestyle by allowing the idea that he is better than you all to permeate his thinking
He has adapted the Narcisistic personality disorder of his father in law....it is really very sad
I do not hate Mike Kekel and would certainly show him the respect due any man if he were not a huge part of the problem at NTCC
thanks,
T
Old Kekel is interesting, isn't he T? He wants to talk about respect? Most NTCC pastors don't know a thing about respect to include "KEKEL". They've openly called women in their congregations "Jezebel" and "Whore" and "Fat". They've deliberately publicly humiliated and attacked church members, men and women alike for nonsense that is not even wrong such as a woman working on a paid job or a woman wearing tights underneath her dress because she was working in the yard. I've personally witnessed so many NTCC pastors show absolutely no respect to new visitors and regular church members that it makes me literally sick to my stomach.
We are supposed to show those "CLOWNS" respect by addressing them formally with titles such as "Sir" or "Mr" or "Pastor"? You've got to be kidding me. If Kekel and his wife had one ounce of respect for NTCCers you would see them cleaning the Kekel's house under the pretense that Tanya is too busy. That is using and abusing people and an utter lack of competent leadership on Kekels part.
NTCC pastors for the most part don't know a thing about respect. The respect they show is all fake with all this "yes sir" "no sir" garbage which they throw out right after they deliberately belittle, humiliate and attack church members during service for no good reason what so ever. Mike Kekel can't tell me JACK about respect. Too many of his pastors are no more than psychological bullies who don't get their messages from God and "Mike" knows it.
And by the way, who is Mike Kekel supposed to be? He puts his pants on just like everyone else does to include some of these NTCC women who are NTCC pastors wives and like wearing tights to the gym!!! If Kekel would act like a real Pastor by realizing that he is using NTCC folks by allowing them to clean his dirty laundry and his house he might get more respect out of more people.
I wouldn't even dream of letting my subordinates come and clean my laundry and house. I wouldn't allow it. That is poor sorry leadership at it's worst.
"Bro Collins I would like to be a blessing and come and clean your house"
Jeff's response. "Hey thanks a lot for the offer but be a blessing to yourself and your family and take that time to take care of your own affairs. My wife and I have our house pretty straight but thanks again for the offer. I've got a better idea Brother; I was thinking about throwing some burgers on the grill. Maybe you and your family would like to come over and get some grub and you can help me clean the grill or something like that when are finished eating?"
Stop using your people "KEKEL".
Jeff
That's what i'm talkin bout!!!!!
Go on Jeff
T
On Kekel's blog Victoria Davis wrote...
People nowadays are painfully rude!!! Everybody wants to be so tough.
Jeff said...
Victoria Davis just described virtually every NTCC pastor that I've ever known. RUDE, RUDE, RUDE. They are so tough and rude when they are behind the pulpit. They are often rude when they are not behind the pulpit. They seem to believe that they have the right to say anything to you that they want just because they are supposed to be a "pastor".
I've heard NTCC pastors call people all kinds of names non of which included their first name, last name, brother, sister, sir or ma'am. NTCC pastors regularly get down right ugly and it's uncalled for. What a bunch of hypocrites. I'd rather be called by my first name any day rather than be called a "knot head", "a whore", "Jezebel", "fat", "a retard". That's right, NTCC pastors have used all those names to refer to folks.
I listened to Oberhauser refer to a whole bunch of exNTCCers (many whom were exNTCC ministers) as "retards". Mayers called a sister a "Jezebel" just because she had on pants. Another NTCC pastor told a little girl that she was going to grow up to be "fat" just like her mother. The dad should have punched that sorry dude right in the face. Another NTCC pastor called a lady a "whore" right in church and a testimony of this travesty is written right here on this blog. I think it was some dude named Boles. Look through the blog, you can find it.
Respect? You've got to be kidding me Mike. I've watched Ramirez go absolutely berserk on his entire congregation because he didn't have enough money coming in to cover the bills. NTCC ministers calling folks up and waking them up at 2:00am just to find out why someone wasn't in church. These clowns don't know a thing about common decency and respect and consideration for others.
They get no respect from me because they've distinguished themselves as no more than a bunch of jerks. T, you barked up my tree with that topic. About the only respect many of these NTCC ministers know is "yes sir, no sir". They can keep that garbage and learn some real respect, consideration for others and common decency because many of them have left all that stuff out.
Mr. Kekel, I'll give you more respect than half the NTCC pastors ever showed their church members: OK MIKE!!! There you go because that is as good as it gets.
Jeff.
Call me Jeff. Call me Collins. Call me Chief. Don't patronize me by calling me Sir. Be real and be like Mordecai because I'm going to be. I didn't see him calling Haman Sir or bowing down!!! Haman didn't like Mordecai and Mordecai didn't like Haman. I don't like these NTCC crooks and I don't expect them to like me. Victoria can bow down to Mike all she wants and so can all the rest of those suck-ups and cheese eaters but I'm not the one and neither was Mordecai. He could see right through Haman and I can see right through Mike and Olson.
Esther 3:2 And all the king's servants, that were in the king's gate, bowed, and reverenced Haman: for the king had so commanded concerning him. But Mordecai bowed not, nor did him reverence.
Haman didn't deserve any reverence and neither does Kekel or Olson. They are both like Haman.
Jeff
Courtesy? Mike has got to be kidding. He needs to teach the meaning of that word to at least 50% of the New Testament Christian Church pastor population because they don't know a thing about it. They've watched RWD bark out orders for so many years that they don't even know how to talk to people any more other than this fake "yes sir, no sir".
I was with an NTCC pastor who jumped all over an "Office Max" female store clerk because "Office Max" got the church cards wrong. He wasn't courteous at all with his approach. It was outright embarrassing for me to even witness this pastors rude, uppity, arrogant, approach. He was down right rude and I had to watch the circus/mobster act performed by this pastor who verbally slammed this hapless store clerk for no good reason at all. When he finished the brow beating and he walked away, the clerk told me she would never step foot in his church and she couldn't believe the way he acted and I couldn't believe it either. He was a FLAT OUT Jerk with a capital "J".
New Testament Christian Church pastors are so worried about comprising their big bad, "I'm the leader in charge status" that they will keep one of their church members standing outside the door of their house in the cold or in the heat or rain, and not let them come inside because they are worried about what the church member might see.
NTCC pastors don't know jack about courtesy with few exceptions. It's absolutely true. They think they've been given some God given right to jump all over people in church every time they get a wild hair up their butt. Courtesy? Who in the world is Mike to even attempt to instruct about the need to act "courteous"? When he has a whole pack of wild dog pastors running around who don't know the first thing about being courteous? Please. It's an absolute joke.
Jeff
I always write Rev. Kekel (sometimes Pastor Kekel). He calls me Shunk or Greg or whatever else he wants (just as he did when I was one of NTCC's Ordained Ministers). I have never given him permission to do this. I always write the NTCC leadership's title on these Blogs, followed by their last name, for 2 reasons...
1. I know how sensitive they (and their followers) are by their routine demanding they be addressed by their titles...
and b. because I don't want anyone distracted by non-essentials.
Addressing NTCC leadership with their self-bestowed title(s) of choice is a small concession to make to ensure a greater chance of people regarding the truth about this 501(c)(3).
Even calling any of the leadership Brother is forbidden. Do you disagree? Start calling all of them (or any of them) Brother (even most local Pastors) and report back how long it takes for them to put the Kibosh on this from the pulpit, or in another public setting.
Gregory
"IF" the church follows the example given to us by our minister to the Gentiles, "Paul" then "demanding to be refered to by a title" GOES OUT THE WINDOW. Paul wrote many letters to the churches. He either had the letters written as he spoke or he wrote them himself. These letters were going to be read before many churches past, present, and future. Not ONE time to you EVER read of him refering to himself as "reverend" or reproving someone for calling him "Paul." Yes that was the name God gave him.
Jesus reproved the Pharisees because they loved to be called of men, "rabbi, rabbi." Jesus went on to say that there is only ONE MASTER around here and that is ME and the rest of you are brethren. There is no "disrespect" or "persecution" going on when you are called by your name and if you really want to be the greatest be the servant of all.
Anonymous wrote...
Jesus reproved the Pharisees because they loved to be called of men, "rabbi, rabbi."
Jeff wrote...
Great example. That is exactly right. With Kekel it's not about respect or courtesy; it's about pride just like the Pharisees. Greg made a great point as well. NTCC ministers are quick to call you by your first or last name if you aren't considered by them to qualify as a "Brother" or "Sister". Once again, just another example of hypocrisy, high-mindedness, and haughtiness NTCC style. Reverend is not a biblical term anyway. Certainly not for a title. You can only find the term one time in the entire Bible in Psalms if I'm not mistaken.
NTCC preachers are often simply all puffed up about titles because they act just like the Pharisees.
Jeff
Concerning the topic of the post: Women being keepers at home:
Rev Kekel has been asked about this doctrine several times and he has yet to provide scriptural evidence that forbids a married woman from working on a job.
The fact is, over the years, more than one lady who married a Bible school student or minister was allowed to remain in the military, working and reporting for duty in BDU's (pants) so as to fulfill her contract and simultaneously providing a substantial amount of tithe to be paid directly to the Bible school office.
These facts prove that no one in the NTCC leadership roles really believe that the scriptures condemn a married woman to hell if she works to earn money or even wears pants.
Sincerely,
The Voice of One
To The Voice Of One:
Excellent post. That tells it all right there. It's fine if a married couple decides that the wife doesn't work. I'm thankful that my wife didn't work before my Son started school. Shortly after my Son did start school, my wife started subbing and then teaching full time, (always at the school that my Son attended). She takes my Son to school and brings him home. He has never been in her class and we made sure of that. It has been great no only having the extra income but being in a situation where my wife doesn't have to stay couped up in this house as much. She likes teaching and I'm happy for her and that is not a sin. Not even close. I'm not insecure about my wife being away from our home.
That is a problem for a lot of NTCC pastors I'm sure. They are insecure and afraid that someone else is going to run off with their wife so they don't want her working. If my wife goes to work and leaves with someone else then she wasn't mine to start with. I don't have time to worry about that kind of stuff.
Being a school teacher is an honorable profession. We will go out to eat or go to the store and occasionally some of my wives former students or parents will walk up and say, "Hi Mrs. Collins". It's rewarding to know that you've contributed to a child's development in a positive way, and you are appreciated for it within the community.
I've met some wives of NTCC pastors who were down right snobby and all high and mighty. Not all or even close but too many for sure. Ladies like that are not making a positive contribution to their community. "My husband is pastor so and so". Whoopee, you want a medal lady? I'm impressed.
It's like that in conference all the time. "What church are you a part of sister?" "Oh your husband is not a minister?" "Oh your one of pastor so and so's church members."
Jeff says...
I'm not pastor so and so's property!! My name is Jeff. Everyone wants to know who is who. It's like a big dog and pony show. I'm pastor so and so's wife and we are in this city or that city. Ra, Ra, Shish Boom Ba.
My wife never liked that stuff when we went to conferences. She always looked at many of these ladies as no more than busy bodies. I could see how so many ladies could get like that when they hang around the house all day being idle and gossiping. You can only do so much cleaning and cooking. Not unless you have about five kids.
1Tim 5:13 And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.
A full time job will end much of that idle time I promise you. Get up at 0545 get ready for work and don't get back home until 1630. Then cook and clean and make sure the kids are squared away. Not much idle time there!!!!!!!!
The NTCC has got that whole women not working thing all wrong. Not only that but what is the woman to do if her husband dies and she has no job skill what so ever? Kekel thinks that question is unlearned and a joke but it is hardly that. It's being real and living on this earth which is hardly the life that the Kekels live. They've had everything handed to them on a platter. I'm sure Kekel is a smart guy with some good skills but that doesn't change that fact that he has what he has to include the positions that he has because of who his wife is, BOTTOM LINE.
The point I'm making is that someone who was handed a silver spoon is hardly qualified to instruct folks on how to get ahead in life or whether or not their wife should work on a job.
Jeff
"It's rewarding to know that you've contributed to a child's development in a positive way, and you are appreciated for it within the community."
It's very rewarding. My wife's daughter in law home-schools her 4 children. They have elected for her to stay at home and do that and fore-go the extra Income at least for the time being and you can tell the difference in the children.
An investment in young peoples lives. I suppose if you want to leave some kind of legacy, Let it be something like that.
Mark, no doubt home schooling is a good thing. My kids are in such good schools that in our case we didn't see home schooling as necessary. Plus my wife knows the teachers so she has been able to request that my son have certain home room teachers over the last few years. It has absolutely worked out great. The school that my son has been in for the last three years was ranked as one of the top 12 schools in the entire state. Had there been problems, my son my very have been home schooled.
I truly don't believe that we could provide my son home schooling that would be nearly as good as what he is receiving right now. His school is immaculate and clean. The play grounds are top notch. The teachers are great and somewhat conservative. Academic standards are also very good and high. It's just been such a wonderful environment and because my wife teaches there, my boy gets a ride to and from school. For my daughter home schooling would not even be an option because we don't know the curriculum, bottom line. All the advanced math and science is out of our league. She is older than my son and obviously taking far more advanced classes.
We asked about the school district before we bought our house. It didn't just happen by chance that our kids wound up in good schools. The county we live in is notorious for good schools. We live in the country and the mentality is noticeably different than in the city and it reflects in the schools.
For the record and so there is no misunderstanding, I'm not saying there are not good schools in cities. I'm sure there are. Having said that I've lived in big cities to include Atlanta and I see a differance in the schools and I make no apologies for stating that fact.
Personally I'll take country living over city living any day. It's a personal preference. I have a close friend who feels differently. He likes to be near a lot of activity and I like to "live" away from it. I can walk right out my garage, go straight into the woods and go hunting if I want. I like it quiet and peaceful. I don't like the sound of sirens and traffic noise and commotion. I had that in Atlanta and the people who don't mind it or like it can have it.
My wife does however help out with my Son's academic advancement at home. Not only is she a teacher but it comes natural to her. It's a wonderful profession and it is hardly a sin for her to practice it professionally at the school where she works. She obviously gets paid for her services rendered and she certainly should. NTCC women baby sit all the time and get paid for it. What in the world is the difference? It's a double standard and the NTCC leadership makes up their own rules (outside the Bible) to suit their own hypocritical, double standard, sexist, chauvinistic agenda.
Jeff
My wife just told me that for the most part) high-schoolers don't really get home schooled any way because all these home schooling networks have been created. The parent can't possibly know all the advanced sciences and maths so home schooling networks are created where children can leave the home, go to prearranged places where subject matter experts in fields such as (biology) can teach groups of home schooled students.
When it's time for college, of course all the home schooling ends. If we lived in a really bad district with crime, excessive drug use and large numbers of severely out of control children, my children would have probably been home schooled also. Thank God that we had, and could afford other options.
Notice I said "when it's time for college". NTCC parents would be out of their minds if they didn't send their children to real colleges now. Having observed the Kekel's example you'd be nut if you didn't follow their example and help your children get ahead in life by affording them options for advanced academics past grade school.
As much as I'm not a fan of the Mr. and Mrs. Kekel, they are no dummies and they want the best for Grant, and they understand that the NTCS won't offer that. It's just such a travesty that so many New Testament Christian Church parents before the Kekels have waisted away so many opportunities for their children.
Jeff
many homeschoolers use online schooling. So yes,they are homeschooled. As many parents get involved and do not leave it just for the kids to do it all alone. They learn right along with there children.
Homeschooling is not always picked because of the horrible public school they are surrounded by. So they can be with there children. Instead of shipping them off to a classroom for eight hours a day.
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