Helen Ashmore posted a testimony on her blog from an NTCCer who spoke about being essentially broke just two weeks prior to conference. According to the written testimony, this person prayed not only to receive enough money for conference but also to have enough money for a flight rather than (I would assume) to drive. This whole mindset comes from thorough brainwashing resulting in someone thinking it's normal to act like a BEGGAR. Let's analyze this situation for a moment. The reason I said the person was essentially broke is because in my book, if you don't have the money for airfare to attend an event just two weeks out, you are in deed broke. There is no reason that you should even consider attending such an event if you can't afford to get there with (listen to this) YOUR VERY OWN MONEY THAT YOU HAVE EARNED WORKING ON A JOB! If this person didn't have the money just two weeks out then someone had to give them, or loan them, the money. I'm not going to beg, borrow or take a handout to go on vacation because no doubt that is exactly what happened. I can just see it now. "Oh I sure do wish I could take a flight to conference sister, but it's just two weeks out and we still don't have the money". Then the whole time at conference, "Boy we sure would like to go out to eat and fellowship but we just don' have the cash. Oh thank you so much for the money; you sure are a blessing".
You're not being a blessing; you just enabled a beggar looking for a handout or a loan, who has not yet learned to create their own wealth and savings. There is nothing wrong with helping out a brother or a sister but chances are this person is broke because they spend too much time in church trying to follow the NTCC system, and not enough time working at a decent job. The Bible says if a man doesn't work he ought not to eat. Don't get mad at me, I didn't write it. I'll take it a step further. If you are working and you are still broke, you either have the wrong job, or you are not working enough, or you didn't get a good enough education (like Grant Kekel is getting) to get a good enough job. I don't blame the Kekels a bit. Yeah it's a double standard but at least he is setting it up so his son doesn't have to run around broke and he'll have the skills to earn "enough" of his own money.
Back to the original topic.
Back to the original topic.
Then next thing you know people are feeling sorry for them because they've been running around poor mouthing everybody and people start paying for their dinner. If you don't clearly have the extra money factored in your budget TWO MONTHS out (say no less two weeks out) to attend conference, than you have no business planning to go you bum. You see the NTCC teaches this stinking way of thinking. Why can I say that positively? Because Helen Ashmore posted this testimony like it's some kind of badge of honor to have to pray to attend conference just two weeks out from the event because you are essentially broke. You've got no business going to conference. The only conference this broke person should be attending is a conference on how to get a job that allows them to earn enough money and save enough money so they don't have to look for a handout every time their church conference comes around.
I wouldn't even want that testimony posted nor would I want to give it. Knowing and understanding what I know now, I'd be ashamed. And not only that I wouldn't want or even take a handout so that I could go on vacation or to conference or whatever you want to call it. The problem here is that the NTCC teaches that there is nothing wrong with being broke and in fact, historically it's been encouraged that people quit their jobs so that they could attend conference. RWD spoke of it openly one conference that I attended and I heard him plainly. That is what RWD said but I say, "If you are a minister and you are too broke to go to conference than you need to spend less time in church and more time at work with a real job." If you are a church member the same applies. Stop hoping and praying for a handout, or for money to fall from the sky, and spend more time looking and searching for a better job.
I hate this mentality that so many NTCCers possess. It's the free loading, poor-man looking for a handout mentality, and it stinks. The wife of an NTCC overseer (namely Helen Ashmore) is clearly promoting this mentality just like RWD has all along. Once again, there is nothing wrong with helping out a brother or sister, but if they are too broke to attend conference using their own money, then they need to spend conference time looking for a better job or working at the job they have.
Jeff
70 comments:
Jeff,
Im going to say some things which is going to ruffle some feathers, but here goes.
When I was in Korea, the minister at the time, John MacDonald was pitching or promoting the idea of starting a new church in Seoul. He pretty much stated that you had to give big. I gave a $1,000 pledge which I did not have. I had to take out a loan to give seed money to so called START the church. Another brother Avilles did the same. This equals me being broke paying money that I did not have, then having to pay off the loan.
Another time I gave John MacDonald and his wife money to attend conference, they were experts at asking and making you feel bad for not giving, and I was just as gullible. I gave $250.00 to each one to help them to attend conference. They came back all happy and glowing, stating that conference WAS SUCH A BLESSING. Yea, buddy, I'm sure it was a blessing swindling me out of my hard earned cash. They even went out on a limb and stated that conference is also a blessing to those who do not attend as the Minister and his wife "bring home the fruits of conference". Now that is stretching it a little bit.
During Christmas one year, Me, having almost no extra money at the time was just getting by when Sister MacDonald got upset that no one had gotten her husband a GIFT for Christmas and she personally came and told me about it, like it was my fault that I had not gathered up money to give to the pastor since I was the "elder brother" so she guilt trips me into soliciting all available brothers and sisters into giving money for a gift for the pastor.
While I was in Korea I gave ALL I had to the church at one point and then had a problem with my ATM card. "God will BLESS YOU brother!!" Here I am, in hunger for days, eating disgarded food out of the trash can just to subsist. I did what I had to do, am not ashamed of it but endured it and got through it, all the while the Pastor and his wife ate good daily. So I have personally experienced poverty at a personal level due to giving when it hurts at NTCC.
I gave THOUSANDS. I am still waiting for MC Kekel to pay me back.
I even gave DOUBLE TITHE just to be a blessing to the work of God. All the while John MacDonald talks about me in a demeaning manner behind my back, laughing at me all the way to the bank.
Bro Johnson
Jeff,
Here are the Korean Chronicles, Part II
Yea, I can personally testify that some, not all brothers and sisters are MOOCHERS and free loaders.
I, being married at the time, let another brother USE MY CAR while I was gone doing training and created a hardship for my wife "It is for the Work of God, and God will bless Me"
So I get back, you can only imagine how mad my new wife was, that I had another brother but not her use the car, just so the other brother could pick some folks up for church.
The brother trashed my car. He did not top it off with gas. He also broke a component of the inside of the car off.
This is how NTCC started to piss me off which planted the seeds to leave.
I was so brainwashed, so indoctrinated into the work that it was a real miracle to get me to see myself that I could not see at the time.
My wife and I noticed a double standard also at Fort Riley, Kansas. The so called sisters at the church had their little cliques and treated my wife like an outsider.
When my daughter was born, we left NTCC for good, and never looked back.
I still long for a good, old fashioned Holy Ghost service, but maybe that is now a fairy tale??
I totally understand Bro Johnson. Many NTCC ministers are free loading bums. Yeah the Bible talks about ministers of the Gospel having their carnal needs taken care of but it also says that if they have food and raiment they should be content. Thats food and clothing baby and if the dudes wife is as big as a house and it takes the whole store to feed her thats not my problem. Anything above and beyond that is on them in my book. I'm not financing a fat house and trips to conference and nice cars and 20,000 a year for grade school for their kids. If they want all that extra stuff then they can get a real job and stop trying to free load off their church members all the time always asking for a hand out.
NTCC ministers are notorious for always looking for a handout but for that matter so are a lot of other ministers from other churches. Let those blow hards go out and get a real job and stop staying up all night and sleeping late because Olson kept them up with late night phone calls. That is another story in itself.
Don't call me up at 2:00 AM unless you want to get told off. It better be an emergency and finding out how many people you had in church and how much money you have isn't an emergency. Olson is also a bum. These guys that call people all night long don't have any decency and neither do these ministers who are always free loading looking for a handout.
Jeff
1 Tim 6:8. Food and raiment. Thats all they should get if they don't have a job. They don't like that verse in the Bible. They want fat houses and nice cars and they want to free load in the process. NTCC ministers don't like 1 Tim chapter 6 because it speaks against them having riches. It shoots down this whole capitalism get rich off your church members stuff that RWD teaches.
Jeff
Bro. Johnson,
Rev. MacDonald used to brag about all the stuff he was able to get you to do.
Jeff,
Good points. Another thing I thought was odd was she was only able to cite four 'godly women she knows', and they were all leadership women.
NEWS FLASH: Sis. Kekel is a 'Proverbs 31 woman'!
Gregory
I still long for a good, old fashioned Holy Ghost service, but maybe that is now a fairy tale??
said by Johnson.
I wonder have you ever heard that saying,holy Ghost service? Before you attended a ntcc service. A saying you will hear in UPC,penticostle churches and ntcc. which all have very cult controlling tactics. that is there Jargon talk!
Since leaving ntcc been to other churches. No there is no jumping,shouting. they do raise a hand when THEY feel like doing that in there own worship. Go to church with a OPEN mind. And not stuck in the Holy Ghost service box! It has helped me to see and learn alot more then I ever did while in ntcc! Back to enjoying going to church. Instead of going to church is a chore. SOmething I HAVE to do to go to Heaven!
April
"Bro. Johnson,
Rev. MacDonald used to brag about all the stuff he was able to get you to do".
Gregory, it is funny how NTCC orchastrates the whole submission thing. In short, it is Genius.
I used to haul 5 gallon water jugs up the side of a mountain to give the Pastor and his wife water to drink in the inital Seoul Serviceman's home.
I just bent over backwards to help the work in Seoul any way I could. Even though I was used and abused for the wrong reasons, I know that God has and will continue to bless me for my efforts
Military bretheren are less likely to question those over them, and are more likely to be YES MEN like I used to be. Brother, can you take out the trash? YES SIR!! Man me and another brother used to talk about how God would bless us for taking out the pastor's trash, spit shining his wingtip shoes or doing ANYTHING for the Pastor, being a blessing to the Pastor and his wife. We were programmed to do anything for the preacher and his wife. Where in the world can you get that kind of devotion? Not in the military! It is one thing to serve, it is another thing to be devoted.
We were living and fullfilling the NTCC pastor's and RWD's dream.
Bro Johnson
Don't call me up at 2:00 AM unless you want to get told off.
Jeff, Rev Olson may change his tactics if Church members called his house at 2 AM wanting to talk about their problems!!!
Military folks don't even do that unless they have an ALERT, and the last time I checked, the NTCC has never deployed!!!
Bro Johnson
That sounds familiar. If you had enough faith, you would never miss a conference, fellowship meeting, church service, bible study, prayer meeting or soul winning event. We were judged by how "faithful" we attended functions.
I really believed that conferences were mandatory. It didn't matter how broke I was or if my leave got disapproved or what the circumstances were, I was going to conference. I never had money to attend a conference, but always had to work it out on "faith", which usually meant you loaded up your car full of brethren that were dumb enough to go along and hoped they all would pay for the gas. Wrong answer. Many times I'd charge the whole affair on a credit card or borrow money which had to be paid back.
One year I went AWOL to attend a conference. My leave was originally approved but then verbally revoked. It was a good thing that they forgot to pull my leave form out of the file at PAC or else I would have gotten in severe trouble. I had to call the IG at Ft. Gordon and get them involved after I was ordered back to Ft. Bragg and threatened with UCMJ actions. There have been times that 1SG's have screamed at the top of their lungs inches from my face because I would not take no for an answer.
None of this is unusual for the ntcc. It's all planned brainwashing. They have to keep you broke and willing to do anything for the cause. They keep you busy, broke and brainwashed. The more you give to them the more they require. They had mastered the art of receiving but had no idea what giving was all about.
Never once did I hear an ntcc pastor say, let's get in our cars and go do something to help the poor or to contribute anything to the community. It was always network marketing for souls. Let's harvest more souls that will give without hesitation and will succumb to our every whim.
The ntcc are a bunch of prima donna's that would love nothing more than to have a bunch of servants cleaning their houses, shining their shoes and taking out their garbage for them. This is the Gospel of servitude that they preach and practice. The longer you stay and comply the more they will use you until you wake up one day and realize that they have encouraged you to waste a good majority of your life.
Don and Ange
If Soldiers were committed to the Army like brainwashed GIs are committed to NTCC we would have one h.e. double hockysticks of an Army!!!
The Servicemen's homes are also a joke.
Pay $150 to live there, now your committed. Not to say that they are shabby, for many that I have been in were very nice. Still, that is $150.00 a month out of a Soldier's pocket.
Pay another $75.00 for food, and that is only what the Sister makes for you.
Breakfast for me consisted of Cereal. CEREAL!!! I buy my children cereal.
Eric Hannah got mad at the brethren for "mooching" food out of the fridge during the night one night, my God Soldiers get hungry!! He proceeded to lecture the Brothers living in the home that if you don't pay, you don't eat.
So we are held to a standard that they are not yet promote.
Wow, I'm sorry. I'm already paying $150.00 a month to live there. That was an eye opener. Now I have to pay extra to eat the food. I used that Army meal card pretty liberally. I had to eat something!!
If you lived at the home, you had to adhere to THEIR schedule, unless duty dictated otherwise. Another way of NTCC wrapping their love love tentacles around unsuspecting GIs.
I know understand why the Sergeant Majors and First Sergeants were so adament against NTCC and against NTCC soul winning. They were right all along. NTCC was wrong.
Being inside NTCC, we the brothers felt like we were indestructable. It was US against THEM. All Soldiers and leaders who showed resistence were of the devil, or the devil was behind it, or the devil was fighting, rejoice brother!!!
Then those who left the home were considered reprobates and lost, no sugar coating it. They were considered running from God, they never were saved, or they just need to get saved, they were fighting God.
Come to find out they were more saved than the brothers living IN THE HOME!!!
As someone who was in NTCC as a minister for a long, long time-- I cannot begin to tell the stories of hardship, poverty and suffering (both mentally and materially) caused by the years of having to attend a stupid conference in Missouri!! It was NOT optional-- you either went Or suffered the consequences-- which were Davis saying he would take away your fake ministers license; being talked bad about by the leaders; being thought bad about by other ministers; on and on. There isn't time to tell of all the people (me included) who lost jobs, couldn't pay the rent, couldn't buy food for the family, whose cars broke down; were preached against, and suffered severe emotional pressure-- all to attend a mandatory conference where Davis would get behind the pulpit and tell us all what a bunch of losers we were and how we were doing and giving enough to his church! It was a vicious cycle-- and I've seen alot of good people destroyed because of a conference.
AXP
Jeff said,
"Thats food and clothing baby and if the dudes wife is as big as a house and it takes the whole store to feed her thats not my problem."
Don and Ange said,
Amen!!!! That's too funny. Not only did we provide food and clothing (many times quad XL size) but they ate and shopped like Kings, lived large off of our salaries and preached at us and manipulated us like we were pawns on a chessboard. I remember back in the day when we were told that if the brethren loved God that they would buy the man of God a 7 diamond 2 carrot ring. There were at least 2 ministers in the org that I knew of whose members got together and bought them $1,000 + diamond rings.
Looking back on the days and years gone by, it's unbelievable the things that the ntcc did in the name of God and how blindly we followed.
That was really good Jeff. The bible does say that "They shall be fat and flourishing". We got them that way and they continue to grow like Leviathan. They will never be satisfied and that is the whole point. It is impossible to reach perfection and you can try your entire life. You will never reach that pinnacle in this life try as you may. One day I hope they wake up and see that it's all vanity. Until y'all wake up NTCC, you can depend on us to call you out on your excess lifestyles and riotous living.
Don and Ange
I remember back in the day when we were told that if the brethren loved God that they would buy the man of God a 7 diamond 2 carrot ring.
Yea, Davis did the same thing. He bragged that the brethern pooled together funds to buy him a Cadillac.
The Preacher life is the way to go!!!
Bro Johnson
Hah, I remember the diamond pinky ring fad! RW got one, and next thing you know Dorsie bought one for Ashmore, and Blumenthal had one too. They were all pimped out, with pinky rings and ugly Cadillacs. It was truly a Thugnificent display!
As far as conferences, we all knew they were mandatory. We spent thousands of dollars traveling from Alaska a couple times a year to attend those vain brainwashing sessions, wasting money we should have been using to buy the things we habitually went without (things which most people consider essentials).
There was nothing the Tightwad Gazette could possibly teach us about frugal living, and if that periodical had a centerfold, my wife would have undoubtedly been on it. I mean, washing saran wrap for reuse and making sanitary napkins out of rags certainly qualify one as a working class hero.
The idle rich in NTCC don't lift a finger to help the ones they bind in poverty, but exploit them even more for free labor. The whole system is one of the creepiest phenomena I've ever seen. I am happy to reiterate how much better life is now, beginning the moment I shook the dust of NTCC off my feet. Leaving is highly recommended by all that have done so, who quickly discover the dire curses pronounced upon them by the corrupt org leadership never materialize, but the blessings accrue continually.
Vic said,
"They were all pimped out, with pinky rings and ugly Cadillacs. It was truly a Thugnificent display!"
Don and Ange said,
But God forbid that a minister, his wife or a church member should volunteer some of their time to help out at an orphanage or a soup kitchen. That's time that could be more productively spent soul winning so we can create more mind numbed robots to pay tithe and improve the lifestyle of the elite in Graham.
Hah, I remember the diamond pinky ring fad! RW got one, and next thing you know Dorsie bought one for Ashmore, and Blumenthal had one too. They were all pimped out, with pinky rings
Pinky Rings are Gay, Point Blank, no way around it!!!
I remember in High school many people considered it gay for a guy to have an ear ring in his left ear although many considered either ear having an ear ring was gay. Pinky rings were definitely out of the question for a guy. For an organization that preaches condemnation, and hell to all who wear jewelry they need to remember one thing. "For every finger they point at the congregation, there are 4 pointing back at themselves". Ok really it's really 3 because one of them is a thumb, but we wouldn't want to misquote the ntcc, now would we?
I sure hope that's not copyrighted material; wouldn't want Briggs coming after me.
I'd give ANY NTCC Miniter 100 bucks to wear an earring!!
Seriously, folks, the reality is NTCC is changing to mainstream. Do not be surprised if you see an NTCC minister sporting earrings.
As RWD use to, and now Kekel goes, so does NTCC!!
Bro Johnson
Minister, I meant to say Minister!!! Ha Ha looks like I said Minator!!!
Bro Johnson
I figured it out. In 13 years, I probably spent somewhere in the neighborhood of $30,000.00 because of conferences. If you figure in the gas, wear and tear on your oil puking junker, food, money it costs to sleep in a bunkhouse at the campground or a motel in Graham or wherever, Nightly offerings and whatever special offerings where taken up for world missions or building programs. That may be a very conservative figure.
I didn't know anyone who went that could afford to go. Everyone was totally strapped for cash because the pastor had soaked us for his fare in gas and motels. We all had to go on faith back then or maybe it was stupidity. Not sure how many times we came back and told the brethren that couldn't go how much of a "blessing" conference was. It took much of the next 6 months to financially recover so by the time the next conference rolled around we were giving in offerings to help the next pastor pay his way and we in turn would be broke again and had to go by "faith" again. Having never missed a conference in 13 years, it's no wonder I was always broke.
Don and Ange
Having never missed a conference in 13 years, it's no wonder I was always broke.
Then RWD has the gall to state during one conference, "Make sure you tip the local resturants and leave a good testimony!!!"
Yea, just another smokescreen to cover his backside!!
Bro Johnson
Waiting for Tanya to be so bold as to wear make-up and dazzle herself up. with all kinds of jewlery. Sure she is biting at the bit to wear it. I am going to guess she already has the items. Waiting when the TIMING is right. Ntcc has put these changes in place. ONLY when the timing is right. When they know there Suckers will not say a Peep. Nor will they leave because of the CHANGES or COMPROMISE being put in place.
Pants on women,jewlery,makeup,earings,oh and Cut hair. All will change. or else Mikey will not have the money flowing in like he wants it to. He wants to be like Joel Olsteen! If he could go on TV,he would JUMP at it! Ntcc is NOT and never has been the last chance for mankind for a true church. The truth is,ntcc is not a church. They are FALSE TEACHERS and pretending to be preachers to look good. And get there tax free status!
April
April,
NTCC may be closer to compromise than you think. Kekel writes in one of his email responses, and I quote:
"I have removed lots of the Seminary rules too. God gave the world His word, and there's plenty who don't regard it, and none of us are perfect in following it. So, I feel that no rule can make anyone do what's right".
You saw correctly. Kekel himself has removed lots of NTCC Seminary Rules, with or without Davis' permission, which shows you his influence over the Org. If Davis really cared about Holiness HE WOULD HAVE SQUASHED KEKEL WHICH SHOWS YOU THAT DAVIS WAS A CON MAN THE WHOLE TIME!!!!
The funny thing is, Kekel also states on his website that,
"Neither am I in charge of decision making in regard to its policies and doctrines. It is not within the scope of my authority to change them, so there's no need to ask me about them"
Ok, he just stated he could not change policies, yet you plainly see in the earlier statement that Kekel is THE MAN as he HAS REMOVED LOTS OF SEMINARY rules, even though he claims that he cannot.
What you have is a wishy washing Leader, but it is clear within and without the Org that Kekel is in charge. The funny thing is, I would have done the same thing!!
By the way, I bet you a wet noodle that Tanya wears Makeup in her Mansion!!!
By the way, a chameleon is a lizard that changes its colors to blend in with the environment!!
Bro Johnson
Mike is not wishy washy. He is a Politican. He can be whoever he needs to be. Chameleon is exactly what Mike and Tanya are. Smile and talk nice to you. Then turn around and knife you in the back. Two faced fake Christian!
April
Bro. Johnson said,
"By the way, a chameleon is a lizard that changes its colors to blend in with the environment!!"
Hunter Orange said,
"I resemble that remark!!"
April said,
"Chameleon is exactly what Mike and Tanya are."
Hunter Orange said,
They wish they were as smart, beautiful, and honest as our SEXY species!
April said,
"Chameleon is exactly what Mike and Tanya are."
Red said,
April, please do not INSULT our species! hmpf!
Hunter O and Red,
You just opened up a can of worms.
If you were offended by my chameleon comments I apologize. I initiated it, not April. If you read the blog archives you will know where I am coming from on this.
Hunter O, you embeddied the word "Sexy" in your blog. When I clicked on it, it redirects me to the World of Witchcraft, I mean Warcraft, You tube video "I'm to Sexy" song.
Buddy, thanks for the comic relief. I never laughed so hard in my lie! Ha Ha Ha!
By the way NTCC policy is if you play World of Witchcraft or Warcraft your dying on your way to hell for playing with the devil and experimenting with satantic rituals and devices.
I never got into that stuff. In my days we were scared enough not to play with a Ouigi Board to communicate with Ghosts.
I'm not joking here. I'm laughing but I'm serious.
Warcraft is considered a demonic Cult, but so is attending NTCC, so, from one Cult to another,
This Cult's For you!!!
Bro Johnson
Bro. Johnson said,
"By the way NTCC policy is if you play World of Witchcraft or Warcraft your dying on your way to hell for playing with the devil and experimenting with satantic rituals and devices."
Red said,
"Who cares what NTCC policy says, that doesn't apply to lizards anyway. Lizards don't practice witchcraft or war craft anyway we just enjoy the music. Besides, it's not the music that will send you to hell it's your rebellious attitude. You're going to do what you want anyway, right?
this red person. talking as if he is a lizard. Is just a bit coo coo. Very strange indeed!
Lizard Man, Lizard Man, Friendly Neighborhood Lizard Man!
Watch him close, his colors change, camo is the name of the game,
Watchout! Watchout for the Lizard Mannnnn!
this anonymous lizard. talking as if he is a person. Is just a bit coo coo. Very strange indeed!
Anon said... "Watch him close, his colors change, camo is the name of the game,"
Zeek says,
Sounds like you have first-hand experience at being a reptile.
Zeek,
Your going down a road you don't want to go down...
You state on your blog,
I love peace and safety. Unfortunately for me, I get neither. Look at me here (picture of a lizard). I'm holdin' on for Dear Life!"
Dude, get over your lizard reptile fetish!!
ANON!!
Red, or Red-Green,
You state on your blog that you are
"First of a ten-egg-hatch, my folks told me I should know better. Guess now I do."
Ok, I get it now. You and Zeek are PRETENDING that you are both lizards. You have both set up blogs and have placed a picture of either your pet lizard or one you wish you had on your blog.
As if the lizard wrote the blogs himself. You have given the lizard human qualities. Brillant!
Ha! Ha! Ha! THAT, my friends is what makes show buisness so great.
I still do not see how you can like lizards to a point that you give them names, etc. Down that road your gonna stumble into borderline beastiality.
Bro Johnson (Pet free from lizards my whole life)
Brother Anonymous Johnson,
Don't be scared of us. Come and hang out with us. We promise, nothing weird.
Lizard Gizzard,
Cool! Those lizards do look pretty neat, just as with any hobby, once your in, your in hook, line, and sinker.
I enjoy Metal Detecting, that's my vice. And a little Powerball.
Peace!
Bro Johnson
Bro Jeff,
Guess what? Now the Graham Church is singing Christmas Carols, you heard it from me first from my inside connection.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv0i1rfXgo8&feature=player_embedded#!
In case that does not work, just go to You Tube and type in "New Testament Christian Church Graham Caroling". You will recognize some faces you have not seen in a long time.
Not that I think there is anything wrong with this, but according to NTCC as we know it, Christians do not have time to sing Christmas songs AT A MALL which Rev Kinson stated was "OFF LIMITS" during his interview to Bruce Smith at the Dispatch.
Souls are dying on the way to Hell, we don't have time to have fun, according to RW Davis.
And this was the GRAHAM CHURCH, sanctioned by MC Kekel.
Here is another Spin on this: If the Internet was not around, we would have never known about this and the NTCC Overlord Preachers would have not said a darn thing about it!!!
More NTCC double standards!!! Do as I say and not as I do.
I guarantee you that if NTCC current church members ask their pastors if they can do this, many will say NO!!!
Bro Johnson
Typical NTCC double standard and double speak who would make Clinton proud:
Can somebody get a hold of Bruce Smith at the Dispatch??
"But we don't do malls," said Kinson, with a chuckle. "We respect the privacy of business owners."
Well, Kinson, You DO DO MALLS!! You sent your legion of brainwashed laymen and laywomen NTCCers singing Christmas Songs at the Mall. They you have the audacity to post it on You Tube.
Does RW Davis approve of this?
Kinson, are you so desperate for new members that you resort to doing things you said you would not do?
Blasphemy Kinson! NTCC used to preach against this AND I GOT chastised by your boy Demonshire for SOUL WINNING AT THE LOCAL MALL near Kansas State U at Fort Riley, KS.
I get it, Do as I say and not as I do.
This horror show was done by the good boys and girls at the Graham Church which Kekel is in charge of.
Then they scared the old folks at the Retirement Home nearby spreading their filth covered in Christmas Songs.
It really just makes me sick. If I could not do this when I was in NTCC, what makes the current generation so special??
I think I am going to call Kekel on this one, this really touched a nerve with me.
I always wanted to talk to a Millionaire!!!
Bro Johnson
Bro J. wrote...
Guess what? Now the Graham Church is singing Christmas Carols, you heard it from me first from my inside connection.
Jeff said...
That's no surprise. It's no longer the church that we knew. We'd been preached into hell for 99% of this stuff. All this stuff would have been considered a waste of the time that God has given us on this earth. Guys like you and I got abused, used, and mistreated just for everything to change. Once again I can't stand the NTCC because of everything they did to people for years. Folks really had their lives messed up by that cult.
Jeff
Has NTCC gone mainstream yet? Or is everyone just waiting until RW Davis croaks?
Man Im still peeved about the caroling. Im not going to contact Kekel. The best I can do on my end is observe and report!!
Bro Johnson
EXPOSED:
Rev Briggs is hosting a Children's Christmas Concert. Wait a minute! I thought souls were lost, dying, on their way to Hell. We don't have time to spend energy on this, do we Rev Briggs?
I do not think that this is very Manly. The Man of God does not partake in such foolishness!
AND
A Christmas Pagent, I say again a CHRISTMAS PAGENT!! That one is going to be pretty hard to do, since one of the requirments in most pagents is that you WEAR A SWIMSUIT!!!
Rev Briggs, this also is not very Manly. In fact, your church is acting like a SISSY!!! Sissys host Christmas Pagents in churches. "Man, Sister REALLY looks GOOD!!!" Must we subject a tender brother to such temptation???
I think you have too much time on your hands, you would be better getting paid $300.00 a month to start a work somewhere - say Korea or Puerto Rico.
Sissys put together Christmas Choirs, go to Malls and sing songs, we do not have time for this nonsense!
You are suppose to be the Last Great Hope on the Earth for Mankind!! We are running out of time for Souls!!
NTCC used to preach that if other churches were preaching Christ, NTCC would not be here.
What is more important? Reaching Souls for Christ or singing Kum Ba Ya? What happened to Holy Ghost Power?
Ichabod is written on NTCC's doorstep. They have all gone a WHORING after false idols and gods.
The Blasphamies of NTCC continue!!!
Bro Johnson
A Christmas Pagent, I say again a CHRISTMAS PAGENT!! That one is going to be pretty hard to do, since one of the requirments in most pagents is that you WEAR A SWIMSUIT!!!
how on earth did you make E-7 johnson?
I look at those hypocrites caroling. And cry for the time I wasted in ntcc. I love helping and being involved in my community. I ached to get out and do things besides church,church,church. Now look there going to retirement homes,the MALL. a place that rw davis codemned. Said why sisters spent more time at the mall then out door knocking. I look at many of the faces on the You Tube. And see folks that started in ntcc almost the exact sametime as we did. So they lived under the same RULES and what was considered SINS and not policies. They are the HYPOCRITES!
But on a postive note. The public is seeing what ntcc women look like. The same they did five years ago. Hair down to there butts,pasty white skin,Same ole,same ole! Not going to win any souls to there soul winning program by doing these DAMAGE CONTROL events. To make them appear,hype,mainstream,look we are not hiding down in Graham folks!
Look back folks when did all the changes occur. After the split,and the EXODUS of folks like me and many others that have jumped ship. They had to do something like appear mainstream "church"
All should go on You tube and leave comments. All can leave comments there. It is not controlled by the Mighty Mike K.!
April
I have always wondered why so many have stayed in the cult. When they acknowledged to us they had thought of leaving. But there still there. A theory,as Mike K. watched as many of his Young cult members leave ntcc. Either with the HOP split or after alot of us left. Many that I am sure ntcc had counted on as there core. Then the Butlers left!! He had to do something to keep folks like the Cardenus,Connors,Chave's,Winters,ect. Suckers that have stuck around. You look at the ones that have stayed. How did they usually act around Mike K and rw davis. They were the SUCKS UPS. Doing whatever it took to be sitting at Davis table,cleaning Tanya's house,shining Mike K. shoes,on and on. I watched as they brown nosed and kissed up. And made me SICK! No way could I ever become like that. Thought I did try. I cleaned Tanya's house,while I rushed to do notes,clean my own home,get a babysitter. just to clean another woman's house.
These folks have stayed. Theory,Mike K. secretly shared with them. That changes were going to start happening. If they would just sick around. There kids would be able to play sports,more trips to see family,a More Normal live would be afforded to them. IF THEY WOULD STICK AROUND. Keep paying your tithes,put in offerrings. Support the "work of God" ntcc loves you,we are there for you,yadda,yadda! They swallowed it up and stayed. Now there looking more mainstream church then EVER before.
But the women's hair will always stop people from coming!!! Always be more men in ntcc then women!
April
how on earth did you make E-7 johnson?
How on earth did you become a preacher Briggs?
First in the morning with the old people and then in the afternoon at the mall. So there SOUL WINNING took up the entire day of this "chor". Folks were of course taking pictures. Proof of the cult that is in graham!lol Look at these Amish looking people. Lets take a picture and show it to folks. Hopefully the more they show,the more that stay away.
Hey,Mike your damage control can go either way. If you show the public what ntccers(women) especially look like. The more folks will stay away. And won't havew to worry about them ever visiting a ntcc church! Praise the Lord if that was to happen! Less people to walk through the cults doors. So they can ensnare you and Lie to you and share there FALSE teachings. As they lead themselves and others to Hell!
April
how on earth did you make E-7 johnson?
Well, gosh, I don't know. Ask God. Promotion cometh from the Lord, that is what my Bible tells me. The King James Version.
I did not attend Church Christmas Pagents.
I did not attend Church Children Specials or plays.
I did not partake in promoting NTCC on You Tube.
I did not partake in promoting NTCC on TV.
I did not sing Christmas Carols at the Mall or old folks home.
I did not have a TV in my home, I still do not to this day.
I soul winned my tail off. I was blitzing before that word became mainstream in NTCC. In fact, I soul winned every day. I would have put most church goers and preachers to shame, and I am not bragging.
I did not attend Wintergreen Concerts.
I did not spend $20,000 a year of money that was not mine to send my son to a private school.
I did not drive fancy sports cars
nor did I allow any brother to buy me a Cadillac.
I believed that if one does not work, he does not eat!!
I paid DOUBLE tithe to the church.
I did not date 15 year old girls when I was 23 years of age. I never engaged in pre-marital sex prior to marriage. In fact, the first time I kissed my wife was when I stated, "I do" at the alter.
I did not cheeze up to the Pastor.
I worked out my Salvation with fear and trembling.
All night personal prayer meetings was normal for me. I cannot begin to even count how many of these I have done. Pray all night, go do PT and go to work, that was my life.
I gave Thousands of Dollars to NTCC in dnations which has yet to be returned to me by MC Kekel.
I endured abuse by the hands of NTCC preachers. The most painful thing was watching my wife miscarriage knowing I could have been a Man and stopped it and faced the abusers.
When you work for God, even if the organization is corrupt, God remembers and does not forget your good works.
Don't be jealous that I'm E7 and your not (soon to be E8, thank you!!). Trust me, I have EARNED the stripes!!
Bro Johnson
My testimony is not unique. I speak for many who were what you could call ULTRA Christians. Folks that go that extra mile on everything and pour our heart and soul into it. We were the Unstopables.
Isn't it funny how, in order to best serve God we are all no longer in NTCC?
I believe the God we served has allowed Him to be served by us a more excellent way, NOT the NTCC way.
By the way I am back from my one year Sabbatical.
Thanks for keeping the Faith, Jeff!!
Hooah!!!
Bro Johnson
the office worker butlers left ? i'd like to get in touch....
are they still in WA ?
the office worker butlers left ? i'd like to get in touch....
If it was the same Butlers I knew, the wife was Korean, it was Devonshire's great hope that Sister Butler would befriend my wife who was Korean. I even talked it up but someone forgot to tell Sister Butler she was so stuck up and did not really take time to befriend my wife who was also Korean, like she was better than my wife because she was a minister's wife.
Also, Karl Malone is on Facebook. He attends Graham church, did not Kekel forbid Facebook?
The Korean Overseas Pastors of NTCC also are on Facebook, minus JC Macdonald's wife
Bro Johnson
last I knew Laura Rogers,Debbie Perez,Pam Mayers,Casey Cardenus is on facebook.
There leader demanded that they take off any exers off there facebook. Not sure if he was making them get off altogether. Proably some mumbo jumbo brainwashing junk like,I would not be on Facebook. But you can do what you want. AS IF!!! Like rw davis said,I would not have a computer. But you go ahead and do what you think is best. All along this man acts as if he is on the right hand of God. So your going to make your OWN decisions,AS IF!!!
I am seeing more and more NTCC Pastors on Facebook with dozens of friends.
This is encouraging to see because it basically means they are making decisions regardless of what Graham, WA states.
Maybe change in NTCC is a good thing?!?
Regardless, a NTCC minister that knows me declined my friend request. GEE I WONDER WHY HA HA HA!!
Bro Johnson
folks still in the cult that accept folks that our EXERS. Only accept the one's that don't talk about ntcc at all. Noticed that some of my "friends" in ntcc took me off. But keep others on. That are much milder in there voicing of there disagreement and horrible treatment while in ntcc as myself and others.
April
To bad those cult longtime followers did not wake up and realize how much life is out there. Your still only getting the pieces that Mike gives you. Tosses these little gifts. ex.kids play sports,choir singing in public,vacations,Fourth of July party at Mike's house. These tidbits make folks in ntcc think. Oh,look it is getting better. We now have a "life" besides constant church. In reality,it is little treats to keep you staying around
Those that have been in ntcc for many years. Know that the preaching that goes on is not right. It is not biblical correct. BUT,they think that is where God wants them. Why would God want you follow false teachers? Why would God want you funding these men to live wasteful lifestyles. While your just making it by!
Take the BIG step. Leave ntcc and you will be amazed at how much God will open your eyes to!
"Regardless, a NTCC minister that knows me declined my friend request. GEE I WONDER WHY HA HA HA!!"
Bro Johnson
Make that now 3 NTCC Ministers! Double standards, I know. "A Pastor never becomes overfamilar with his flock"
However, if you are no longer under their Ministry, should you not count as a friend anyway (on Facebook)
An NTCC Minster would have much to gain by friending EXERs. Let's pretend that I am a sinner. Would you not care for my Final Destination? Oh, wait I forgot that was a horror movie!!
Just once again goes to show you the double standards of NTCC. The Ministers and wifes who choose to use Facebook only use it to communicate amongst themselves.
Not everybody has access to a General!! Only his cheese eating Captains!
Bo Johnson
There are lots of ntcc ministers and X-ministers that are afraid to talk. Not quite sure what an X-er would be scared of but they sometimes act like they are still affiliated with the borg, or that one day they will be welcomed back with open arms by the ntcc.
The problem with crawling back to the ntcc is that in addition to the open ridicule that they would receive, the public humiliation they would have to endure they would also have to break ties with all of the normal people that they have associated themselves with.
For some reason many X-ers have the same blinders on that ntcc'rs are wearing. I maintain that the ntcc is a cult that you do not have to be ashamed of leaving. We also need not be afraid of leaving them because they do not stand for the same things that Jesus stood for. Imagine RWD walking by a homeless person; he'd be holding tightly to his wallet. What would Jesus do? I would venture to say that He would reach out in love to that person to help them. I've never seen an ntcc minister reach out to the poor and helpless.
The only interaction we've ever been instructed to give to a "bum" as the ntcc would call them is not to help them because they are only going to buy booze and do drugs. The preachers of the ntcc have only one target audience and that is the "gullible" and those that have money they are willing to give. Never seen any outreaches to the sick or needy in the ntcc.
Hey MCK, what's up with the gowns that the carolers are wearing? They kind of look like dresses. I guess gowns are acceptable for men to wear for graduations and caroling and what not, but then again if you are trying to abstain from the very appearance of evil we must have missed that teaching. Wearing that which pertains to a woman? As for me, I'll stick with britches.
Don and Ange
Hey MCK, what's up with the gowns that the carolers are wearing? They kind of look like dresses.
Holy Cw!! I totally missed that one, since I am used to seeing it at the church I attend.
NTCC has desensitized me, there is no new thing under the sun!!
Your right, guys wearing dresses is wrong!!
Jesus wore a robe, as well as the priests of the OT Covenant, and I'll have a really nice one in heaven
Mr. Kekel,
OK, fair enough. Then why don't you start wearing a priestly robe now? Would it make you look like your Catholic?
Why does not your beloved Church Choir wear robes now? Maybe you will win some converts.
I challenge you, Rev Malone, and the Choir effective immediately to start wearing robes to church. I will not laugh. Promise!!
If Jesus wore a robe, and you tarry till he comes, then why not greet the Master with the same garb on?
You might just get a Mansion in Heaven! Oh, wait, you already have a earthly mansion and over $350,000 of free land gifted to you by RW Davis. Sorry!!
This is typical NTCC logic. Do as I say, and not as I do. Expressing a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof.
NTCC is like serfdom. The few elite enjoy the labors of the masses of poor.
You really have got everyone fooled, Mr. Kekel! But God showed me a more excellent way. Your not fooling God, and your not fooling me anymore.
Bro Johnson, Concerned Brother of the Faith
Since Factnet shut down, I just wandered over to this site and it’s nice to see people are still spreading the good news about NTCC. I also like this thread and will add my two cents about NTCC keeping people as paupers. While stationed in San Antonio, TX we had a building fund to get the parking lot paved and black topped. The pastor at the time was Rev Rodriguez. He called a company to come out and give us an estimate; it would cost $16K to get it done. So we started the building fund. He got up Sunday morning to proclaim the project and how much it would cost. We gave and gave and gave and finally met our goal. With in a few months of meeting our goal God (????) called Rev Rodriguez back to Panama. The new Pastor Rev Espinoza continued the building fund, but there was never another word about when the project would get started. This was back in 2001, so I moved on and came back to San Antonio about 4 years later (2005) and there were still no improvements to the parking lot. As far as I know Rev Espinoza is still the pastor and I bet 2011 there is still no parking lot. I know for a fact the $16K was raised and more so where did the money go????? Offerings at every service 4 nights a week, Sunday night budget offering, world missions, building fund pledges and I forgot to add camp ground pledges. I’m sure we were giving well over 2K a month to the church. SMH
Faactnet.org is still up. The link goes to a page full of links to discussions about ntcc. Once you open it you can bookmark or save it as a favorite for easy access to it in the future.
Or you can type Factnet.org into your URL / address line and click enter. Then search for
New Testament Christian Church ntcc
That will get you the same results.
Thanks for the Factnet info, I will have to check it out. SMH
Did anyone ever pay tithe to there old church because they PCS'd and there wasn't and NTCC near them? Boy I sure did and the pastor excepted every check and didn't mention anything about paying tithe somewhere else. He also recommended that I didn't attend any other churches so I wouldn't get messed up. SMH
I saw my post on another blog and I I'm just re-posting here to keep things in order. RB the money to get the San Antonio parking lot paved was collected and I know it was over $16K. I don't deny what you said was the truth, but the real truth is money was taken up for the parking lot and a parking lot was never built. I want my money back!!!
Anonymous said,
"Anonymous said...
Did anyone ever pay tithe to there old church because they PCS'd and there wasn't and NTCC near them? Boy I sure did and the pastor excepted every check and didn't mention anything about paying tithe somewhere else. He also recommended that I didn't attend any other churches so I wouldn't get messed up. SMH
FEBRUARY 28, 2011 2:46 PM"
Yes, anonymous SMH, lots of people in ntcc who PCS'd were expected to keep paying their tithe to the ntcc even if there was no ntcc church near them. So many of them did that. They were not being fed at ntcc; but they were paying the tithe anyhow. Many also paid the servicemen's home rent and food fees even though they were not living in the home.
Can anyone say cha-ching?
As far as not getting "messed up" by going to another church... ntcc "messes up" people far worse than any other church I've ever encountered. Even those who figure out what a scam ntcc is and leave need time to reprogram their thinking and get rid of false doctrine that ntcc drilled into them.
Jeff said on another thread he'd take Adolf Hitler over the ntcc because with Adolf you knew where you stood but ntcc are sneaky racists. hmmn. Guess you could say they are money hungry too.
Anonymous said,
"I saw my post on another blog and I I'm just re-posting here to keep things in order. RB the money to get the San Antonio parking lot paved was collected and I know it was over $16K. I don't deny what you said was the truth, but the real truth is money was taken up for the parking lot and a parking lot was never built. I want my money back!!!
March 10, 2011 9:34 AM"
If ntcc wants to claim it is a business, it should abide by the rules that all other businesses abide by. ntcc should have to pay back your money because they failed to render the service purchased. No goods, no cash. It's that simple.
Get a lawyer and sue 'em. He or she will work for free until he or she wins the case and takes his or her fees from the winning settlement. It's called working for a contingency (They don't get paid unless they win or contingent upon them winning. That keeps them motivated.)
$16,000 is alot of dough to steal.
Wouldn't want a penny to keep you out of heaven, huh? What a bunch of liars and crooks run ntcc! Don't worry about taking them to court either. The bible only admonishes against believer against believer. ntcc crooks are not believers. If they were believers they would not lie and steal. I say sue.
Lady Justice wrote...
$16,000 is a lot of dough to steal.
Jeff said...
Not to the NTCC. They scoop up $10,000 here as reported by one NTCC pastor, $20,000 there as reported by a different NTCC pastor, $38,000 from another place as reported by yet a different NTCC pastor and this $16,000. These are just figures right off the top of my head that I've been told of by people who served as NTCC pastors.
A pastor also said that he took up large world missions offering which never went to it's intended destination because it's intended destination never even happened. He found out after the fact and he left the NTCC. These guys are crooks. All they are is a money pit. It is crooked to even take tithe from someone who is not in your church. It's crooked to accept rent from someone who doesn't even live in your building. The NTCC leaders have no scruples.
Jeff
See here is the attitude of the NTCC leadership. They feel that all money that comes into their church is theirs to do with whatever they want. They don't feel it's there duty to restore money to it's contributors when it's not going to be used for it's original intended purpose.
Basically their attitude is this: Once you give your money to us, we reserve the God given right to use it for what we want. It's no longer your money, it's Gods money, so don't concern yourself with what happens to it. PERIOD!!!!!
No accountability. They are crooks.
Jeff
Now I see it Jeff, just because they decided not to pave the parking lot it’s no big deal. They can use the money however they choice with not explanation to the people. If that’s not a lie I don’t know what one is. I really didn’t want my money back it was just a figure of speech. But now I see how common things are. Those involved will have to answer to God one day for taking money from the people and not using it for what it was suppose to be. I guess some of the money went to get Tanya’s hair done.
Post a Comment