Hey everyone: The Reeds have a blog that is open for posting. Their blog was not established for the same reason as this one and that, I totally understand and respect. Their blog is not about the NTCC. It's about the Reeds, the Lord, and what they are doing for the Lord. That is not to say the NTCC won't ever come up, but that is not why their blog still exists. I'm sure they'd appreciate some visitors and I'm also sure they'd appreciate knowing that the friendships they established over the last 25 years haven't vanished just because they've decided to attend a different church. The Reeds didn't suggest or ask me to post this. With very few exceptions I work independently however if the Reeds asked me to take down this thread I'd have no problem doing so. My association with M. Reed is pretty much limited to the time that we both lived in the same serviceman's home back in 1985. We've talked since but certainly not often. Having said that, we definitely were good friends back in 1985 when we were both in the Military stationed together at Ft. Hood. I just thought that folks might be interested in going to visit their blog. Below is a link and I've placed a link on my sidebar as well.
http://onelessstone.blogspot.com/
Jeff
317 comments:
1 – 200 of 317 Newer› Newest»What a very nice blog. It was good to see the blessings that God bestowed upon the people of Guam through his willing servants Bro. and Sis. Reed. I hope that they will be able to pastor again someday as they have been a great influence on many lives.
I thank God that one can still live holiness, as is the characteristic of the Holy Spirit, and not be bound by abuse. Jesus came to set us free.
The things that have gone on in the group for the past 20 years and the changes that have taken place have caused many to be torn and confused. May the Lord help those to find His direction in their life and to go with the peace and grace of God, fulfilling His will in their life that they may reach others.
Blessings.
what is holiness. Ntcc version of holiness is not biblical!
what is holiness. Ntcc version of holiness is not biblical!
wow! you just ruined the whole spirit of mr. knolls comment!
whooptie do. So many are still stuck in the ntcc "holiness" thinking! Stuck in the mud!
I would like to just send a friend request to any NTCC former ministers. Here is my facebook link (if you don't mind me posting it, Jeff)
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1383588902
Some of you may not be too internet savvy due to former internet restrictions in the borg, but just copy and paste the link into your browser.
I hope to be able to connect with you to discuss continuing the ministry after life in NTCC. Add me! God bless you!
No I don't mind at all Bro.
Jeff
Thanks. It means a lot to me, and thanks for making this blog so people can re-connect after making their departures!
I know people criticize it sometimes and say, it's the same ol' 6 and 7 people, but that is by far not true. I see, yes, the same few people posting REGULARLY, but over time a lot of people have come on here. Just because they don't STAY here doesn't mean that you don't influence a lot of people.
Hey Jeff,
Wow, I sure have missed a lot during my absence (I have been off the Blogs for about 1 month). Good to see the fire is still burning, people are still engaged, and the Reed's have left.
NTCC is winning,
Gregory
No doubt Greg. How is everything going? Did you get what you were working for? Yeah it has been pretty busy. Lot of activity. Take care Greg.
Jeff
Jeff,
Things are going great. Still working on it. It's good to see the renewed commitment in exposing NTCC. I'll try to call you in the next few months (along with some of my other exer friends).
Gregory
So...Kris is back? Really? What about his reason(s) for having me delete all his posts from Deborah's Blog a few months ago...moving on, wanting to go to heaven, wanting to be right with God, etc? He's posting the same type of stuff all over again...once again.
Not that I think there has been anything wrong with all he has posted (even on Deborah's Blog). He provides insight, and adds to the discussion. He is not averse to bumping heads with people. It's just, well...he seems to not be able to make up his mind.
Gregory
The NTCC has made a lot of us somewhat indecisive at times in our life. I understand Kris. He is just trying to find a balance between exposing the NTCC while continuing to act somewhat decent in the process. There can be a fine line that sometimes we find ourselves crossing in the wrong direction.
Kris has a conscience and I can respect that. Having said that I've told him that there shouldn't be a problem calling a spade a spade and that is not something to feel guilty about. Take RWD for example. The guy is a jerk and I don't have any problem saying so and I'll sleep real good at night.
Jeff
Hey Greg, what's going on? Glad you are safe. Deb's story on you all's blog (a little TX lingo there) really touched our hearts, because a lot of what she shared, we witnessed ourselves. Her personal testimony brought us to tears. But we serve a God who can put it all back together. Thank God He is so real, especially since we've left. For so many years we were made to believe that God did not move outside of that one group.
We had a wonderful weekend of worship and the Word. The healing power of God is incredible. We are excited about our new path that the Lord is leading us down. God bless you, my man!
M.D.Reed
Let's see who is able to determine this thing.
"Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pail of water, Jack fell down and broke his crown and Jill came tumbling after."
What is holiness anonymous? The characteristic of the Holy Ghost. Know Him and ye shall know Holiness.
Hope this helps. :)
Jeff said...
Yeah, I hear you Bixby. Unfortunately I heard the same thing from a bunch of NTCC leaders who've been about as "holy" as a piece of swiss cheese. They have a few nostrils, a big mouth and little ears, but that is about the extent of it. Everyone claims to know the Holy Ghost but so few people show the goods. Claiming to know the Holy Ghost is quite intangible.
There is little or no proof. Denis used to speak in tongues and the NTCC leadership claims that he is the devil, so their proof can't be quantified. How do you tell the fake tongues from the real tongues? No answer necessary because that question was rhetorical. You can't. Everyone says they "have" the Holy Ghost but so few if any can prove it and speaking in tongues alone doesn't get it anymore in my book. I've known too many obvious crooks who've gone, "ealaqro leamandae, shoto ealara latabaci". I'm sorry but I'll need a little more proof than that. Every minister who's ever left the NTCC did that, and equally all the crooks that remain, so what does that prove?
Once again Denis prayed in tongues about as much as anyone, (that I ever heard) and the NTCC leadership unanimously says he is the devil so what did speaking in tongues prove! Hey, I'm just being real here and certainly not disrespecting the Holy Ghost. It's just the NTCC teaches that you have to speak in tongues and that solidifies your experience in God and your salvation and it's evidence that you've received the Holy Ghost. The problem is, all these ministers who've left the NTCC, who the NTCC claims are no longer saved, spoke in tongues. The most abusive NTCC ministers I've met who the NTCC leadership has admitted are misguided, all supposedly received the Holy Ghost.
The NTCC places so much emphasis on "praying" in tongues as the final seal. 90% of the people who pray in tongues leave the NTCC never to come back and of that 90%, 99% are said to be devils by the NTCC leadership. So much for the proof of praying in tongues.
You will know them by their fruits hey? Only when you are with them. They act very holy sometimes but if you stick around them long enough you find out they are fake. RWD, Olson, Ashmore, Kinson, Kekel and Jones are fake, every last one of them. If you've followed RWD for long enough you can't help but be fake because RWD is fake and if I can see it, so can all the guys that I've named. If they can't see it they are blind, and that is just as bad as being fake. The blind leading the blind baby.
So who knows the Holy Ghost? I don't expect much proof to be forthcoming because probably a quarter of the U.S. Christian population claims they know the Holy Ghost. I wonder how many really do and I wonder what proof they'd give to support their claim?
Jeff
Jeff said,
"Claiming to know the Holy Ghost is quite intangible."
Anonymous said,
" I haven't seen any real healings in Ntcc."
Cynicism despairingly drips from said statements.Understandable,but does not exactly inspire any hope. Surely God can reign outside of 4 walls!?
Healing takes place where ever prayer is mixed with faith regardless whether in or out of any given group.
I have witnessed healings in and out of the church at ntcc. They may not be considered "real" healings to some, but to the people that were healed they mean a lot and glory was given to God.
I have seen both saved and unsaved healed under the mighty power of God which is a gift of the Holy Ghost and not a gift of man, but to man and for man.
The Holy Spirit is eager to glorify Christ in the lives of both sinner and saint and has and always will regardless of ones opinion and or perception.
I guess the question comes down to what one regards as a "real" healing. I have witnessed them for myself and to God Be The Glory, not man, nor organization.
I can respect that and appreciate that.
No buts.
Jeff
M.D.Reed,
What's up man? Yes, Deborah does have a compelling testimony (as we all do). NTCC often carps about a second witness, but the whole organization is a second witness to all we testify of, since we all experienced the same things.
Hopefully many more will see NTCC for what it really is, and take appropriate action. The internet, and our testimonies, do most of this needful work.
Take care,
Gregory
Bixby Knolls said...
What is holiness anonymous?
Sounds like a meeting of former legalists to me.
God said:
"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:"
Anonymous said:
"Sounds like a meeting of former legalists to me".
Interesting parallel isn't it?
DS or GS said,
Deborah does have a compelling testimony (as we all do).
All kinds of accounts showing a pattern of abuse, but they are all lies, yeah right. :-)
romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
holiness is a fruit from being saved and obedient to God.
someone may have been saved as well as have the Holy Ghost but that doesn't prevent them from sinning or doing evil or wrong.
it's like saying, so and so is a christian and they sinned....
does that mean you ignore being a christian because another christian sinned ?
Anonymous quoted a question and answer posted by mck:
Hello Sir,
Will we be able to videotape or record any of the workshops? I only ask because my husband will not be able to attend and the PA system workshop would truly be a blessing to him.
Thank you!
Saturday, March 19, 2011
mck said...
Sure, you can videotape it as long as you aren't hanging from the chandelier by your toenails.
Sunday, March 20, 2011
----------------
You may record the workshops; BUT DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT during the REAL BARN-BURNER evening services. That's when the ntcc claws and fangs come out, ripping to shreds innocent people who aren't able to defend themselves. The slander will fly from the pulpit with no second or third witness to prove what is said. No recording devices will be ALOUD. Except the brains of people listening to the "good reports"! Which "end" do they want us to listen to? (see profile pic)
No.... you are wrong. They were never homeless.... at the time he moved there... most of those places were not even up yet.
They did not have rest rooms and they had no running water... we did even have heat.... in those days....NOW every room has a bath,heat, and is cheaper than staying in one of the area motels.... and much cleaner too.... now when you tell this.... be sure you tell it right..... no one has ever been made to stay on the camp.... it was their choice.... still is.... and there is a waiting line to stay at the camp....
With your pay, your land, your retirement and everything else you have, I still have more than you, have more blessing than you, and I still give offerings and pay my tithe, therefore... like it or not....I am blessed better than you!
OM-NTCC
OM - how do you know you are blessed better than another ?
anyway, not staying on the campground folks were made to feel guilty for not doing so. and yes, no one was forced to stay on the grounds.
but put out all the facts, not only the ones that support your position.
davis would talk down and poorly about those who would stay off the campground.
No, he talked about giving to sinners and being subjected to sinner conduct and attitudes and activities, when you could have a better place, and no country sinner stuff going on. I stayed in both places and I made that choice and as soon as I could get my self in, I did.
Rich Hampton has a nice house, if fact he owns 2-3 in the area where he lives.
OM-NTCC
To those of you that have been side tracked. This thread is supposed to be about the Reeds. Take your disputing to private emails please.
We're trying to keep things spiritual here instead of debate and arguments.
Jeff - If I'm wrong, then please correct me on this one. Enough of the bickering already.
you are wrong, and I want debate, nor will i bother you again....
Bixby said...
Jeff - If I'm wrong, then please correct me on this one. Enough of the bickering already.
Jeff said...
I previously preferred to stay on topic and that was certainly my original intent with this blog. As time passed I came to the conclusion that it was virtually impossible to stay on topic so I stop trying. So yes, you are right about the Reeds being the original topic but there is no sense hoping to stay on topic because believe me it's not going to happen.
Ultimately I want people to feel free to post whatever they want and I rarely ever moderate this blog so at this point (even though I can relate with you) it no longer matters to me if people stay on topic.
Jeff
OM NTCC
like it or not....I am blessed better than you!
Jeff said...
Na, na, na-na, na,
Not as long as you're still in the NTCC. Freedom is probably the best blessing that God has ever offered, and if you are still in the NTCC you don't have it. Either that or according to the NTCC's standards you are a compromiser.
Jeff
OM-NTCC said:
"With your pay, your land, your retirement and everything else you have, I still have more than you, have more blessing than you, and I still give offerings and pay my tithe, therefore... like it or not....I am blessed better than you!"
Don and Ange said,
Can you see the hypocrisy dripping off of this one? Sounds like a Pharisee. "I pay my tithes and give in offerings, I'm blessed more than you, look at me!!! I'm better than you because I respect and follow my cult leaders."
We hope one day that you will realize that your attitude is not healthy and if you would take a step back and look at your words and take a minute to process them, you might realize that true Christianity has very little to do with the works that you claim to have done. I hear many ntcc'rs talk about how they don't drink or smoke and they dress holy and they do this and do that. "I am not like this sinner here, I pay my tithes and give in offerings". Mean while the sinner who prayed, "God, forgive me" went to his house justified.
This is a call to all ntcc'rs to wake up. Christianity is not based on your great works. It's not what you do or don't do. It's, do you really know Him? To know Him is to love Him. To love Him is to Love His people. I know that you think that you are the only bunch that is going to heaven but time is not working in your favor. While people are dying and lost without Christ, you are spending your precious minutes reproving the true believers and very little is being done in your organization to save the lost. Turning people into drones doesn't count. Converting people into tithe paying machines will not purchase you a ticket to glory.
Our mission; and we have chose to accept it, is to help people that are in the ntcc realize that they are in a cult. We also try to help people whose lives have been devastated by the ntcc to straighten out the mess that was created in their mind by the ntcc. In addition we hope that people will realize that there is hope outside of the ntcc while there is very little hope for the believer or unbeliever in this critical thinking, hate-filled organization, we realize there are people like you that are crying out for help and attention. We know you are here against the borg leaders wishes and you are searching for answers.
We hope that you find answers and we also would encourage you to pray and study God's Word also and seek Him first above all else. God will open your eyes through time as many of us can attest that he has with us.
Don and Ange
Anonymous said...
when you could have a better place, and no country sinner stuff going on.
Jeff said...
Wow. I'd much rather be around the people you call "sinners" than RWD and Olson who may very well be the biggest sinners of all. "No country sinner stuff"? What is country sinner stuff anyway? Is it a special type of sin that people commit who live in the country? "Country sinner stuff"!!!
Boy does the NTCC have some people seriously brainwashed. Folks it is absolutely amazing!!! Think about it. "Country sinner stuff". It takes some serious indoctrination to get someone to think like that. "Country sinner stuff". Once again, wow!
Jeff
That is what he said, like the country loud music, the shabby dress women, the drunks in the parking lots, yep, that is country sinner stuff.
And for you SS folks Psa. 1:1. (Super Spiritual)
Twanger
OM,
I fully understand that you do not realize what you are saying. You are clearly bellowing out the opinions and nonsense preached in your organization.
You coming to this site, tells me that you are curious about our past experiences in the NTCC and that is perfectly wonderful!! I pray that God will remove the veil of gullibility from your eyes as he has for so many others!
Some of the comments posted in regards to your “country sinner” post may seem as if they are ridiculing you, but just stop and really THINK about what they are saying and most important, what you said!
Next to God and the disciples, who was it that Christ spent most of his time with? Was it not the “country [and every other] sinner?” Was He not attending their weddings, providing feasts, having lunch with them, healing them, and most of all having compassion on them rather than bigoted judgment??
I am from Texas and was a “country sinner!!” Thank God, Jesus didn’t feel too haughty to accept me in to His family. I was not looking for Him, but He was diligently looking for me, the “country sinner!”
*Jeff-
Thank you for providing this outlet and support for us! Your small contribution of uncovering the misdeeds of NTCC has helped more people than you can count! Thanks for taking the time out of your day to continue this resource!
K Crum
Country sinner! southern gospel is about a country as it gets!
Methinks the founder was a country sinner at one time, was he not?
country sinner. Oh you mean like your leader Mike K. Who listens to country music. goes to bluegrass festivals. Plays what rw davis calls Hillbilly music.
Holds a conference in the middle of "country".
Oh and rw davis BASHES folks for staying at hotels. Saying quote that you would only stay there to watch that devilvision!!!
I said the choice was mine to make and I would rather be around christian folks and their fellowship, than country sinners and their booze and their life style.
Seems like I have offered you hope in my writing here. Well, I will dash that hope because I plan to write no more!
... I said the choice was mine to make and I would rather be around christian folks and their fellowship, than country sinners and their booze and their life style.
Some boozers are pretty friendly. They would be a lot more fun to be around than Rev Davis who does no more than pick you apart every chance he gets. Them fault finding Christians aren't much fun to be around. They pick you apart, find fault with you and then preach at you the very next service.
I'll take the country sinner boozers and their "life style". I'm sure Jesus would rather be around them as well. Jesus never liked the Pharisees too much and they are the same as the NTCC.
Hey, at least the "boozers" are honest enough not to hide behind a Nyquil bottle.
Hey Vic,
Thanks for your honesty....you boozer.
Anonymous said,
"Anonymous said...I said the choice was mine to make and I would rather be around christian folks and their fellowship, than country sinners and their booze and their life style. Seems like I have offered you hope in my writing here. Well, I will dash that hope because I plan to write no more!"
Don and Ange said:
We also would rather be around Christian folks than to be around those who are phony. I think going to a bar would be more spiritual than attending some ntcc churches. When I was a sinner, I would go to the bar and drink and people would be brutally honest about their current state of affairs. Not so with the ntcc.
Many in the ntcc would have you believe that loyalty to an organization or to a man is God's primary requirement and they expect you to live accordingly. I think that the sinner in the bar has a better chance of making it to heaven because at least he knows he is lost. The first step to becoming a Christian is to realize that you are lost.
Boozing sinners are a step ahead of you anonymous because they know the difference between a sinner and a Christian. You seem to think that this bunch that you hang around is going to lead you to heaven because they look down their noses at everybody and outwardly appear to Christians? That's not what serving God is all about. The ntcc leadership and general board members are a bunch of back-sliders that have left the principles that they once stood for and compromised their standards for financial gain. None of the board members had the backbone to take a stand against this hypocrisy and now they spend most of their time defending their changing hearts and performing damage control.
I am so glad that God brought me out of that mess and has given me a sound mind. I hope and pray others will see the writing on the wall and escape for their lives.
Don and Ange
If you're glad Don, then we're glad.
Vic,
I have heard tell of the excessive amount of empty NyQuil bottles in his trash. What is the possibility this is true? It sounds like something Pastor Davis would do. Based on all the other stuff we all personally know about him.
Gregory
"Thanks for your honesty....you boozer."
Yeah, I guess I've been guilty of being "one sip drunk," according to the absurd traditions of the NTCC elders. By that reasoning, they themselves are guilty of being "one bite gluttonous" (although judging by the girth of some of them, they didn't stop at one bite).
"I have heard tell of the excessive amount of empty NyQuil bottles in his trash. What is the possibility this is true? It sounds like something Pastor Davis would do. Based on all the other stuff we all personally know about him."
An office worker formerly tasked with taking out RW's trash told me that he hauled the empties out by the bagful. I guess medicinal drunkenness is different.
I guess he drinks to forget...
Remember that story r w davis used to tell? rdub said, "I asked the man why he drank [now that he was no longer a Christian.] He said, I drink to forget. [God]" -- long pause with gassy-puss.
What other stories did r w davis tell to keep everyone in fear? He said one man refused to go to church or give his heart to God. But his wife was a Christian. This lady constantly refused to go to the movies with her husband based on her religion's holiness doctrine. Finally one night he got her to yield, promising to come to church with her if she went to just one movie. When she finally agreed, he instead went and blew his brains out because he lost hope in God since she wouldn't keep her vow not to go to movies.
But we all know grant kekel, davis' grandson watching DVDs now makes it okay to watch movies. Guess r w davis needs a new story to scare folks into submission.
Maybe that's why he drinks so much NyQuil -for creativity? But we think it is just that he wants to forget what is coming.
The mUckRakers
Ask your little wife, she was quite the NQ junkie in HI.....as I remember....
the mUcks said,
"When she finally agreed, he instead went and blew his brains out because he lost hope in God since she wouldn't keep her vow not to go to movies."
guess he killed himself for nothing. he should have waited 5 min for the church to change.
It's a sick system which fosters an environment where people drink NyQuil as a means to get intoxicated.
That is so demented it's unbelievable. Just drink the real thing; it's not like your fooling God. It's legalism that promotes that kind of ridiculous mentality. It's called splitting hairs. I'll go to hell if I drink a wine cooler but not if I drink 5 bottles of Nyquil just a little spread out."
That is so absolutely stupid that I'm ashamed to have ever been a part of the NTCC. I remember something spoke of in conference where Nyquil consumption was actually addressed. Folks, the NTCC is an absolute joke. So many of these NTCC guys are so far off the mark that they can’t be found on the entire target.
So this is what Christianity is all about? NOT! You can keep that mess.
Jeff
Vic,
Maybe the 'RW Davis holy ghost Cocktail' could be the new church drink (along with 3 sisters wine, etc.)
Recipe for one 'RW Davis holy ghost Cocktail'...
Take one high ball glass.
Fill with ice.
Fill half full with NyQuil.
Top off with 7Up.
Add one Maraschino cherry (pun intended)
Repeat as necessary. Speak in tongues if you like.
Attribute any hangover to the 'devil' fighting.
Gregory
I drink Nyquil on the rocks
for when you're feeling sick, but sociable
Seems like I have offered you hope in my writing here. Well, I will dash that hope because I plan to write no more!
BUT we know your on here reading what others are saying. Your pride can't keep you away. Have to know what us Exers are saying about mr good two shoes. Who thinks he is high and holy. And all you are is a CULT member! Nothing better then any country sinner folks. Since you still a sinner right now. getting saved does not take away that your still a sinner!
You may not comment back. But enjoy reading the TRUTH about your cult!
whoever said that folks in ntcc are Christian folk. Just because they say they are does not make it so. You kind sir are so blinded that this is what you want to believe. We were all there. This has to be Gods will. So this can't be a cult,right??
The fog will lift and you will realize your in a cult. and alot of those folks that you think are Christians will stab you in the back so fast! It happens time and time again.
God is not in ntcc. Because the folks running ntcc do not have any God in them. It is all a money making empire scam!!
"whoever said that folks in ntcc are Christian folk. Just because they say they are does not make it so."
Its a pretty harsh judgment to say those who attend one organization or another are not Christian.
That is true Anon -
When you have gone so spiritually postal, as some here have, it's easy to be very reckless in criticism.
I understand that not everyone who posts here fits that caliber, therefore it would not be fair to say that everyone who posts here is not saved and or everyone out of NTCC is not a child of God.
It works both ways.
When you leave this group, one thing that some have had a hard time wrapping their arms around is the act of keeping their heart right with God.
There are some who will say that they lost their children, their life, etc and these are valid points. But as we look to the attitudes of men and women in other parts of the world who have experienced physical persecution of arms, legs and life for the gospel's sake, or suffered physical persecution and wrong doing, they have the same attitude Christ did which is "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."
It takes a real, strong and spiritual Christian to have gone through what they did in this group and come out with this Christ-like attitude.
We must not allow this group or anyone to stand between us and God because we have allowed bitterness, hatred and hard feelings to bind us up again.
Just something to think about.
If they are not physically worthy of your presence in the group, remember that they should not be worthy of your spiritual attention outside of the group either.
Let love reign in our hearts always.
"Let love reign in our hearts always."
...especially toward those who may be unwittingly enticed into this destructive group. Love motivates us to warn them of the potential consequences. NTCC's leadership isn't an object of my hatred, but their ways are.
It sounds like you are advocating they have long promoted--leave, but don't "fight the work of God" by talking about what they're doing. They don't care who leaves, as long as they refrain from exposing the pernicious ways of the org. As soon as one does, the smear tactics kick in all over again.
You are right--they are not worth our spiritual attention whatsoever. However, their potential victims are, and shedding light on what they strive to keep hidden is the right thing to do.
I love Vic. He has a great way of saying things.
that's not what he is saying. he is saying don't deal out the same unjust judgment.when you say someone is not Christian its like calling God a liar.
Acts of Jeffs blog 26:28... Then the NTCCer said unto Vic, Almost thou persuadest me to be an exNTCCer.
26:29 And Vic said, I would to God, that not only thou, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am, except for all the abuse I endured whilest I wast with the NTCC.
TBC
Bixby Knolls said, "If they are not physically worthy of your presence in the group, remember that they should not be worthy of your spiritual attention outside of the group either."
Don and Ange say,
Bixby, please: Christ did not subscribe to the Pharisees religion; because through their vain traditions they made the Word of God of none effect. By binding heavy burdens on men, they stopped people from entering the kingdom. The bible records that the power of God was present to heal them; but they would not. The Pharisees did not allow God to heal them; because in their self-righteousness they refused to see that they were sick.
The ntcc is just like the Pharisees. You have acknowledged the truth of people loosing children and suffering on account of wasted years in the destructive group called ntcc; but you think people should physically leave without saying anything about what happened? That is just like someone leaving a burning building without warning others in the building or about to enter the building that THERE IS DANGER THERE OF BEING BURNT / SUFFERING DEATH.
Nobody loves more than Jesus does. Yet He harshly rebuked the scribes, Pharisees and hypocrites, proclaiming woe on them and defining their actions. It's all in Matthew 23. We ask you to read that chapter. You will immediately see that the ntcc top 'leaders' are EXACTLY like the hypocrites Jesus rebuked.
Jesus wanted to heal them; but they wouldn't let Him. It was bad enough that they wouldn't allow Him to heal them. But He rebuked them; because they were stopping others from entering the kingdom. We would be remiss if we too did not rebuke ntcc and warn others of their hypocrisy.
Please, think about THAT.
Don and Ange
TBC - THAT WAS SO FUNNY!
Thanks
TBC
www.free-christian-movies.com
rw davis thought he knew if a person was saved or not saved. He is a BIG LIAR! He can not look at a person and know if there saved or not saved. Nor can he know just by talking to him. ALL of which he has said for a FACT!
esus wanted to heal them; but they wouldn't let Him. It was bad enough that they wouldn't allow Him to heal them. But He rebuked them; because they were stopping others from entering the kingdom. We would be remiss if we too did not rebuke ntcc and warn others of their hypocrisy.
by don and ange
This needs to be shared over and over again. Many of us are not bitter,angry people. We care deeply for those still stuck in ntcc. You are stuck. from day one when we arrived in Washington. You gut reaction was right. You know something is not right with this group. And you should leave. But I am doing Gods will right. This is where God wants me right??? No he does not want you in a cult,just to line other mens pockets. While yours has more lint then money in them! Leave ntcc and you will realize what so many of us say is true. And the twisted gargle that comes out of mIke K. mouth is sugar coated lies. To make you feel good that your doing Gods will. But in reality he keeps getting more rich while the minion works for ntcc stay in there station in life!! Never going any higher then they want you to go!!
Another letter from the past. Click the name above...
Testing, testing, this is only a test. Is there anyone alive in the House of Collins? Ok, It's official. NTCC'rs are no longer allowed on the blogs. Any NTCC'rs caught participating in these terrible blogs will be executed without trial (Spiritual Execution that is). They will be blasted and run off for good.
We are winning!
I'm alive. Of course I don't have to be worried about being blasted for frequenting the house of Collins. I'd blast them right back. It would make my day to have one of those NTCC creeps try to tell me a single thing about this blog.
The only thing that would happen would be two grown men going back and forth because I wouldn't put up with their garbage for one second.
Jeff
Jeff said:
"I'm alive. Of course I don't have to be worried about being blasted for frequenting the house of Collins."
Don and Ange said:
Freedom is a wonderful thing. People in the ntcc make those hit and run anonymous drive by postings because many are scared to be who they are. I've heard them say they don't use their names because they don't want their names drug through the mud but their names and the names of their friends and brothers get drug through the mud in public from behind the pulpit all the time.
I don't have a problem with them posting anonymously but I think it is an outright lie when they use excuses like this to explain away the reason they don't post under their real identity. Rev. Briggs is one of the few that speaks his mind and is not afraid to sign his name to his words. The real reason people from the ntcc post anonymously is because they do not want their peers or mainly their superiors knowing who it is that posted. They live in fear when they visit the House of Collins.
This is one of the things I hate about the ntcc, is that it is so hard to be yourself around them, many end up living an outright lie. If I've seen it once, I've seen it a million times. Folks act one way when in the presence of their pompous leaders but when they get in their motor homes and leave, they let down their hair and act like normal people. Anytime the borg leaders were scheduled for a visit everyone worked themselves into a frenzy trying to clean up the Servicemen's home and make everything perfect so the "inspectors" could be impressed. Then when they got there, everyone walked around like they had corn cobs stuck up their butts. "It's such a blessing to see you, sir". "Would you like to look at our books, sir"? "We have someone coming to fix that leak, sir". "We took up an offering for you in advance, sir". And so on, and so on...
Get real, already. When R-dub and his deputies come to town, you should be who you are, and if that isn't good enough for them, tell them to crawl back into that hole that they came out of. They put their pants on the same way you do everyday. When they grace you with their presence and start looking to find fault with everything you do, give them a taste of their own medicine, and jack them up. Ask them why they have compromised the standards they once kept. Ask them why they no longer preach the doctrines and policies they once revered. They are so quick to disperse judgement and very slow to forgive. And then they come online and say that we are the ones that are hateful.
Don and Ange
P.S. Pick up the slack and don't look back!!!
Is this a true edict!?
-House of Atreides
I don't know that much about Dune.
Jeff
Don, you have a point. However, many who have been the warning pieces to others from the "burning building" have been consumed by the flames their self.
I could name some major players in this sport of warning people of NTCC , who they their self and their families have fallen prey to the burning flames, but I will not do that here.
Jesus said Father forgive them for they know not what they do. Are we loving our enemies? How about those that we felt despitefully have used us. How did Christ say to treat them?
Jesting about NyQuil bottles is a show of immaturity on the part of those who are supposed to be loving Christians. Maybe we expect to much of men, when we think they should be responding differently than what Christ taught.
If we truely have and know the love of Christ, then please show those (ntcc) who know it not, that they may be won for the kingdom as well.
Jesus didn't hate the Pharisees, but hated their works and their fault finding spirit. Beware lest you be consumed of the same worldly flames that you claim to be warning others from.
Just saying......
BK.
Bixby said...
Jesting about NyQuil bottles is a show of immaturity on the part of those who are supposed to be loving Christians.
Jeff said...
Who said any of us are supposed to be loving Christians? This blog ain't about being a loving Christian. The NYPD ain't about being loving Christians. For those who want to be a loving Christian that is fine but that is not what this blog is all about.
NTCC folks are anything but loving Christians with few exceptions. They are judgmental, holier than thou, stuck up, money grubbers, and so crazy that a few of them drink NyQuil because you don't buy it in a liquor store. That is a joke and it's worth joking about. What kind of crazy christian organization has people who abstain from beer, wine and liquor but drink NyQuil as a substitute?
Now that is childish and immature, not the people who joke about it. It is a joke.
Jeff
Bixby said...
Beware lest you be consumed of the same worldly flames that you claim to be warning others from.
Jeff said...
Once again you've got it all wrong. I'm not standing behind a pulpit while rounding up a bunch of NTCCers to cram this stuff down their throat in the name of Jesus. You can't find any Christian symbols adorning the background on this blog. I don't claim to have started this blog on Jesus's behalf even though that has crossed my mind. The crooked NTCC makes such claims, not me. This blog was created specifically for the reason contained in the title. This is a place where people can come to get the real story about the NTCC. The side that the crooked NTCC leadership doesn't want you to know.
I'm not warning people of any worldly flames. I'm warning people of the NTCC's true agenda. They are not the holy group that they claim to be. They are interested in your money and time and they want complete control of your life. They will place demands on you that their own leadership doesn't abide by. They will eat up your time, money, opportunities in life, and then kick you to the curb when you are no longer interested in their control tactics. To put it plainly, if you want to waste a huge portion of your life, stick around the NTCC for a few decades and you'll be telling stories like so many others on this blog.
Jeff
Blowhard Bixby said,
"blah, blah, blah"
Try taking your own advice Bixby you blowhard!
"Jesting about NyQuil bottles is a show of immaturity on the part of those who are supposed to be loving Christians."
It's not a jesting matter when legalistic overlords condemn people for things they are secretly doing themselves. In the first place, their entire teetotaling premise is unscriptural, as anyone who actually reads the bible for comprehension understands.
I would certainly offer Jesus a cold brew if he stopped my my house (unless I didn't happen to have any on hand, in which case perhaps he could do the honors and transmute some of my well water). Then we could chill out and discuss the zany things people do in his name. Like drink Nyquil while they pretend to be abstainers.
Spot on, Jeff! Couldn't have said it better myself! BTW, who made Bixby Knolls the thought police anyway? If you can't take the heat,(truth) then get out da kitchen!
I'm out!
Bixby said,
"Jesus said Father forgive them for they know not what they do. Are we loving our enemies?"
Don and Ange said,
"Yes Jesus did ask the Father to forgive those that nailed him to the cross. He also had some pretty interesting things to say to the Pharisees who were the ntcc leaders of the day. You know the ones that outwardly appeared holy but inside were like dead man's bones. The ones He called vipers and hypocrites. He warned them of everlasting flames and of judgement. To the woman that was caught in the very act of adultery, He told the hypocrites that made an outward show of holiness, "let him that is without sin, cast the first stone".
I can't for the life of me understand why people defend the ntcc. Do you think they care about you Bixby? What would you say to someone who was a victim of repeated child molestation? Would you approach the child molesters and gently let them know you loved them and were praying for them? What if it were your child that was being molested would you sit back and let the child molesters tell you that you were wrong for accusing them. Would you let them continue to molest other children while you "prayed for you enemies"?
We will continue to warn people of the abusive and destructive ways of the ntcc. If you want to pray for them, it couldn't hurt but if you think you can persuade us to sit back on our lazy seat of do nothing and watch good people get manipulated and burned it's not going to happen.
We know too much. We have seen too much. There are too many of us who have been extremely hurt by this group of liars and users. Our voices will be heard. I also believe that you are warning the wrong side about the flames. You must be a spiritual person to know which way to direct God's judgement. Maybe you can grab some stones and throw them at the Xers since you seem to know who the objects of God's wrath are.
Saying all that, we actually hope your eyes will be opened and that you will see for yourself how messed up these people are. Our prayers are for those whose lives are being wasted. We hope they will escape for their lives and take a loved one with them. The best thing anyone can do is to warn people to stay away from the ntcc. Leave and don't look back.
Don and Ange
Why do ntccers come here? Are they hooked on gossip or know something isn't right and this is there confirmation?
Why are we told not to come here? Because its gossip or maybe some people want the truth in hiding.
Anonymous said...
"Why do ntccers come here? Are they hooked on gossip or know something isn't right and this is there confirmation?"
to get both sides of the story smdh
D&A said...
"I can't for the life of me understand why people defend the ntcc. Do you think they care about you Bixby? What would you say to someone who was a victim of repeated child molestation?"
no where did he write a defense for them. when biblical correction is offered an attack ensues from the blog pulpit. sounds controling!
Anonymous said...
no where did he write a defense for them. when biblical correction is offered an attack ensues from the blog pulpit
Jeff said...
There is certainly some validity to your point. You've got to understand though. We've been preached to by the likes of RWD and his henchmen for so many years, we no longer are very receptive to such dogma. When Bixby sends quote "warnings" it reminds me of the NTCC false prophets who warned us all not to leave their church.
I no longer take very well to the type of preaching and warnings perpetuated by the NTCC and in this case, Bixby kind of went down the same path. Some people say that us blogging exNTCCers don't act quote "Christian like". Well neither do many current NTCCers but the difference is I'm not trying to. I'm not trying to be all spiritual and sanctified here. That is not what this blog is all about and not only that, I think that many NTCCers have it all wrong anyway. When Jesus called the religious folks of his day "vipers" current sanctimonious NTCCers would have said he wasn't acting very Christian like.
There is nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade and I won't be apologizing for doing it. So yes, guys and gals like me are somewhat sensitive to self-righteous sanctimonious preaching. I've called RWD a crook probably 1000 times on this blog and for the 1001st time, he is still an abusive, control monger, money hungry, manipulative, big mouth crook.
Was that Christian like? I don't care if it was of if it wasn't but my approach won't be swayed by someone's preaching. I'm not the one running around Military installations targeting young impressionable GI's who have money while totally ignoring and turning my nose up at poor folks in the ghetto. I can't stand the NTCC and if I have my way, this blog will continue till the day I die. I plan to find someone to take it over when that happens. The NTCC drew first blood.
Jeff
Why does Bixby want to spend so much time defending child molesters like kekel and that bunch in graham, wa?
reminds me of the homosexual agenda. disagree and get labeled a homophobe.
why didn't Bixby stand up and be a man and defend the pregnant women that r w davis made cry when he blasted them from the pulpit for, in davis' words, "ruining their husbands' ministry!"
Bixby, that is not Christ-like love. Let's get things straight.
Christ rebuked the hypocrites. We rebuke the hypocrite davis who adopted his daughter tanya kekel and then spent the next 40 years bashing pregnant women from the pulpit, causing them to cry and fear.
davis' bashing of pregnant women carried over and was picked up by his preachers who called pregnant ladies "lazy" for not soul-winning to their bogus standards. Women have testified to the fear and to puking out the car door while on these so-called soul-winning missions. And others have testified to miscarrying because they were out walking 'soul-winning' being slave driven to the point of losing their baby!!!
Jesus would have plenty to say about such hypocritical cruelty.
Wake up Bixby and other ntcc defenders. You are serving a demonic man who drives God's flock with force and cruelty.
Don and Ange
From the cross Jesus prayed, Father forgive them they know not what they do. But when addressing the hypocrites Jesus told them, You say you see, therefore your sin remaineth.
Fact is the hypocrites knew they were wrong but they refused to repent. Just like the ntcc.
by the way Bixby, nice profile pic. Too bad you use your voice to defend the hypocritical child molesters running the ntcc.
I can tell that there are some half truths on this forum as some of the posts have me labeled totally wrong in their accusations. Sounding authoritative, doesn't mean that you are.
For the record, I am defending the gospel and no other, and by the grace of God will continue to. I preach Christ and Him alone, and not a man, nor an organization.
The biblical words I spoke are true, did Christ cast His pearls before swine here also? Those who have ears to hear, let them hear.
Quoting the word of God makes one a blowhard? If they are the words of God, then who is the blowhard accusation really toward?
Something to think about.
Let's "get one thing straight" Don. You have sadly mistaken me for someone else.
BK
"Why does Bixby want to spend so much time defending child molesters like kekel and that bunch in graham, wa?"
Why is Bixby Knolls named after a community in Long Beach? Or is he, like most NTCC apologists, hiding behind an alias?
To be fair, if I were still in the org, I'd be afraid to use my real name here too. Even Mike Kekel made his FACTnet debut as "The Whirlwind." Are they afraid to be real? At least we know who's talking when it's Robert Briggs.
Don and Ange said...
"by the way Bixby, nice profile pic. Too bad you use your voice to defend the hypocritical child molesters running the ntcc.'
you probably were bullies in ntcc too.figures!twisted this man's words because you don't like what he said. real courageous! at least jeff doesn't do that. if jeff let you you would rip rb every chance you get? thne 0 ntccers on this blog for comments. ure like denis!
Don Denis and Ange Davis!
Don -
Surprised that Jeff allows false accusations here. Defending child molesters? Not Christlike and not coming from me at all.
Again, I'll teach you and hope you get it this time - My Defense Is Of The Gospel.
What's yours?
BK
chaos and anarchy eventually destroys itself!
Agreed Anon!
Keep a watch out.
BK
Anarchy might be better than as Don and Ange said, serving a demonic man who drives God's flock with force and cruelty. Thats a hard way to live,j ust my opinion.
doesn't give them the right to LIE by putting words in people's mouth!
I don't think Bixby is defending the NTCC. I think he is just stating his own personal views which in some cases happen to line up with the NTCCs. Bixby ain't that bad. As far as me allowing false accusations? I allow all kinds of stuff on this blog because it's an open blog and of course I wouldn't always know the legitimacy of all actuations.
If someone is falsely accused they are certainly free to defend themselves and set the record straight. With few exceptions people are free to post whatever they want here. If their posts are pro NTCC, they should expect to have them refuted around here. That should come as no surprise. Sure this blog is one sided. That should also come as no surprise. I am against the NTCC. Totally. I firmly believe that I have irrefutable evidence proving that the NTCC leadership is a bunch of crooked hypocrites who devour the lives of many good hearted people. I also believe that the NTCC leadership turns the hearts of good hearted people into the hearts of crooked people.
That is the way I see it.
Jeff
"Anarchy might be better than as Don and Ange said, serving a demonic man who drives God's flock with force and cruelty. Thats a hard way to live,j ust my opinion."
living life without a spiritual or moral compass is even worse!
BK said:
"Let's "get one thing straight" Don. You have sadly mistaken me for someone else."
Don and Ange said:
It seems like you are taking all of this personally, Bixby Knolls (anonymous, same difference). I have not mistaken you for anyone. Nor have I falsely accused you. When you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one that yelps the loudest is the one that got hit and you seem to be doing some yelping.
I wouldn't begin to imagine who you are but I do think that you have some of us pegged wrong. We speak freely here which is a luxury we never had while in the ntcc. Many of us have suffered greatly by the malicious and manipulative practices of the ntcc. We have a voice now and we are using it to bring light to people that are being deceived in a cult that claims to be a Christian church.
Our goal in life is not to tear people down and make a bunch of unsubstantiated accusations against the ntcc or you. There's not much we can say directly to an ntcc'r that would influence them to leave. These blogs are a witness against their practices and bring to light many things that have been done in darkness. People come here and learn things they never knew about the ntcc. We hold the ntcc to the same cut and dry standards that they held us to. For years we were the object of their hate and many were destroyed by words. We witnessed these things and sadly were a part of them. If the ntcc can call people out and publicly humiliate them in church, why are we demonized for doing the same to them? This is our platform and this is our pulpit. We will use it to seek freedom for those that have no rights. We are not trying to influence anyone to leave God, but we do attest to the truth that there is real freedom in Christ outside of the ntcc and guess what? God exists outside of the ntcc.
We call them out for acts of impropriety and we are considered to be rakers of mUck, that's ok. Go ahead and lift up the name of Jesus and glorify Him, but don't come after us in the next breath say we need to love our enemies. You do not know me or Ange. We pray for people like you every day. We pray for people like you not to heap coals of fire on your head but that you and others would understand that the ntcc is a very divisive group that hurts people every day. We take it personally when someone like the Reeds who have shown nothing but unwavering loyalty to the ntcc and it's leaders, are treated like common criminals. The Reeds always were true friends to me in a time in my life when that was what I needed. We all were misled into believing a lie and now that we know it is a lie, we are not going to sugarcoat our words. There is a time to pray for them that despitefully use us and sometimes loving them means openly rebuking them so that their evil ways can be made manifest.
Don and Ange
Don said -
"but we do attest to the truth that there is real freedom in Christ outside of the ntcc and guess what? God exists outside of the ntcc. "
I'm not here to fight with you Don and I appreciate passion in every sense of it. I am glad you NOW realize the truth of the statement that you have made above. Many of us have known that for a long time.
My concern, being my brother's keeper and not a self appointed thought police person, is I have seen too many who have championed others with truths about this group and have been trail blazers of warning, only to be consumed of the flames their self.
Many are not serving God now (Not talking about NTCC standards, so please don't go there because I am not) and some are even self proclaimed atheists.
This is a real burden for me. One thing that I have done through all of this is kept my heart right with God. It is very easy to allow past experiences and hurts to consume the real love of God and light of truth in the heart of an individual.
All I was really stating, was in all of one's warning of the "burning building", not to be consumed yourself and I tried to provide scripture and tools that have helped me to stay right and keep peace with God and the Holy Ghost, in hopes that sharing that with others, would salvage them from castaway status.
No offense was intended.
That's all.
BK
Bk said:
"Again, I'll teach you and hope you get it this time - My Defense Is Of The Gospel.
What's yours?"
Don and Ange said:
I'm glad you think that you are called to teach me, Bixby Knolls. That's flattering that God has placed a special calling on your life to put me in my place.
I'm also happy that you are a defender of the Gospel. There are many gospels and messages and I need to hear from folks like you from time to time to help bring things into perspective. In the ntcc we heard the gospel according to rwd which was that you had to get his permission to do things that normal Christian adults do all the time without asking permission from a man. He also preached the gospel of celibacy, maybe not with his voice but in his actions he manipulated many people away from marriages that he didn't approve of. He also preached the gospel of vasectomies which destroyed the hopes of many to have families which is an evil thing to do to people. He also preached the gospel of tithe, which was used to determine if a person was saved. He also taught the gospel of what he called "holiness" which was used to determine who was loyal to loyal to him and his cause.
Which gospel are you defending? Oh yeah, the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Be careful how you defend it. It's easy to say, "I love God" or "I defend the Gospel of Jesus Christ", but in defending it you sometimes come across as offending the true believers of Christ. We take no offense but realize that many people who leave the borg. at first spend much of their time and words trying to convince others that they are still Christians. I did this myself as you can see in earlier postings. The only One that you have to convince is God. If this applies to you, good. If not, pitchfork it over to someone else. There comes a time when you have to get brutally honest with people because they think they have a monopoly on Christianity.
Don and Ange
There is a time to pray for them that despitefully use us and sometimes loving them means openly rebuking them so that their evil ways can be made manifest.
Shared by Don
I had to repost this statement. Said it so well. What so many of us are doing. When we are accused of being bitter,angry Exers. When all we are is concerned people that do have names. Not lump us into a group. we do not all think the same,feel the same,or heal the same. We are finally individuals out of the cult. trying to help others from not falling for the traps we fell for!
April
BK,
Some folks that left ntcc have left God. And many of us have not. But we do not fall into the cookie cutter Christianity that you still may think that is way it is supposed to be. Like we all were the Exact same in ntcc. Not anymore. We can find out own path and our own relationship with God.
April
I get your point Bixby, and I understand where you are coming from now. We all have passion in our own ways, and sometimes it might rub others the wrong way. You sound like someone who has seen a lot and have been out for a while. I can appreciate your admonitions about the burning building and what you have seen in the past. Personally, my efforts are to warn people that the ntcc path is a burning building. I can't let what others have done or not done influence what I feel is right and what God has placed a burden in my heart to do. This is my calling and this is my passion. Jeff does it far better than I do and so do many others. But if we can contribute anything to the cause of helping people see that the ntcc is using them and perverting their Christian desires to live for God, then we will do our best to warn others.
I appreciate your concern for us and we take no offense. We also are concerned about you and wish the best.
Don and Ange
April said
Some folks that left ntcc have left God. And many of us have not. But we do not fall into the cookie cutter Christianity
BINGO!
BK said...
Many are not serving God now
Jeff said...
In my opinion (and of course this statement can't be quantified), they weren't serving God when they were in the NTCC either, and I'm also not talking about NTCC standards. By the way BK, I'm confident I know you i.e. we've talked. I trust everything is going fine. Take care. I also understand where you are coming from. You're a good man Charlie Brown.
Jeff
Does that mean BK is CB now?
Jeff- I know this is off topic but I need to get it off my chest
I was completely robbed of any type of normal childhood because of NTCC. I get angry even to this day when I think about the abuse I suffered.
I don’t know if everyone was like this, but the “children should be seen and not heard” was practiced in my family. It’s like women and children don’t even exist.
In my opinion, NTCC treats women like they are inferior to men; they are not allowed to express their opinions. They are supposed to stand in the background and look pretty, agree with and do whatever their husband says. If you ask me, it’s complete nonsense and just another way to control people.
After my parents finished Bible school, they were assigned to various states to try and start up churches. Eventually, we were sent to Rhode Island to help another minister with his church. We were there for maybe a year, and then we were told we would be moving. NTCC told us go to Washington State to attend conference. We left Rhode Island and drove to Washington State. The back of our truck was loaded with all of our possessions. We had car problems along the way, and we had to empty half of our belongings on the side of the road. Talk about your worst nightmare. I have HORRIBLE memories from NTCC!!!!!
It’s complete brainwashing! I hated the fire and brimstone preaching!!! I guess they figured the louder they screamed the more anointed they were!?!
Shine on,
Sarah Goodwin
Wow Sarah, I'm so sorry to hear that. Stuck on the side of the road hey? Sounds familiar. That is typical in the NTCC. I feel so sorry for you because of what you had to endure. You never saw Grant Kekel getting treated like that. Feel free to post here anytime. Are you out of the NTCC now? If you are I'm sure everything will work out for you. The bottom line is there is life after the NTCC. You may have lost your childhood but you don't have to loose you whole life.
I'm sure your parents were just trying to do what they thought was right. Don't hold it against them. We were all brainwashed. Hopefully they get over it. Take care and I wish you the best. Very sad but a good testimony. It's what I've been saying the whole time. The NTCC sucks and it sucks the life out of people.
Jeff
Sarah,
Just want to add a great big "Ditto!" to everything Jeff said to you. That was horrible. You and your family deserve way better than the ntcc treatment!
Sarah would it be alright with you if we put your comment on our blog?
Don and Ange
ntcc Xer blog
Yes, I'm very thankful to be out of the NTCC. I'm doing good. I recently decided to go back to college and I'm working on getting my degree.
Your exactly right, the Kekel's son was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. It's such a double standard.
Sarah
Don and Ange,
Sure I don't mind at all if you post my comment on your blog.
Thank you for your kind words. It really means a lot.
Sarah
Sarah, Don and Ange,
I now incorporated Sarah's comment into an old post on Deborah's Blog, and moved it up to the top. Good stuff, and it fit nicely into the old post.
Gregory
Good Morning,
Hope all are well. It's a great morning to be alive. We thank God for everyone in this community who is taking a stand for God and fighting against tyranny. It's a fight worth fighting and we are winning! When people like Sarah share their stories and realize that there is hope after all that they have been through. What a testimony.
We are enjoying our freedom and this life that God has given us. Every day brings new challenges and we are highly encouraged when we hear from folks that are going on for God outside of the ntcc.
We look back on the dark times when we lived in fear and tried to make the best of things. There were good times and bad times but through it all we finally made it to a place where we have true freedom and liberty in our lives and are able to enjoy our salvation.
We also have re-established many lasting friendships with folks who have shared in the same suffering. We feel that with everything we know and have been through that love is a more excellent way and a better approach to reaching out to people. While we speak out vehemently against the ntcc, we are do our very best to show the utmost compassion towards those that have been hurt deeply by the ntcc.
We use the same tactics against the leadership of the ntcc that they use to brainwash us and manipulate people without cause. We demand of them answers for how they have mistreated many people for many years and why they keep forcing their non-biblical principles on people. They created a hostile environment with their abusive ways and we in turn confront them in the same way they confronted us. They had very little tolerance for a persons independence and freedom; we in turn, have very little tolerance for their unnecessary displays of cruelty.
At the same time we believe that there are more souls that have received lasting damage inside and we have no judgmental words for them. These are the very ones that Christ died for and we hope that He brings healing into the hearts of all that have been harmed.
It's very encouraging when others make it through the ntcc gauntlet and find peace in their lives. We live in the hope that many others that live in fear would realize that we no longer have to. There are many people who have overcome and we look at them as inspiration to keep going and finish this race. Again we thank everyone here for your willingness to look at both sides and have the courage to think for yourselves and seek out the truth.
Don and Ange
Amen Don and Ange.
a comment from mck's blog,
"if they are right, and have been done wrong, they still should not run, because that takes away the chance for them to prove they were right.
Sometimes decisions are incorrect and reports given can also be incorrect, so if a person runs, they can never change the fact they were right and the report/decision incorrect."
This person is not living in REALITY!
Anonymous quoting from mck blog:
""if they are right, and have been done wrong, they still should not run, because that takes away the chance for them to prove they were right.
Sometimes decisions are incorrect and reports given can also be incorrect, so if a person runs, they can never change the fact they were right and the report/decision incorrect."
Don and Ange said,
Well doesn't that justify mistreating and spiritually abusing someone? My suggestion to those that are right that are treated wrong is to run for your life if you are in a cult. If you are involved in an abusive situation and you no longer wish to be abused, run or walk away or confront them face to face, but don't stay in that abusive situation. The best thing you can do is leave. That is what I did and it's working out great for me.
Those that misuse their office and mistreat others for financial gain or power always reflect the blame off of themselves and try to make others look guilty for their actions. They are probably talking about the Reeds or folks like them that have faithfully served the organization (Cult) with loyalty for decades. If you don't cower down to them they will absolutely throw you out with the garbage. They don't have any use for folks that don't follow their every whim with unwavering loyalty.
They have the audacity to accuse them of running. We say, who cares? Now they are free from the ntcc and they can live for God according to God's word instead of following a bunch of stupid policies that are in place only to control them. That's right. They are a bunch of control mungers and that is why they have so many rules that have nothing to do with God. Their purpose is not to teach you to follow God but it is to teach you to follow them. If they wanted you to follow God they would trust you to do so out of your own free will and according to the dictates of your conscience.
The ntcc has a system of controls in place for one purpose and one purpose only. If they can keep you "busy for God" and obedient to the "man of God" you will not have the time or the will power to think things out for yourself. If they can make you think you are giving everything to God they will allow you to give all you have to them. The problem is, God doesn't get any of it because God is not there. If God were there they would not have anything to hide. If things were done "decently and in order" there would be no question where the money goes.
It's called transparency. The reason there is no transparency is because they do not want you to know where the money goes. If you knew where the money went they would lose many of you and your contributions to their slush funds. This is why things are done under the table and why people are kept in the dark. When you do things correctly there is no reason to hide. Who is the coward? Who is in the dark?
If there were transparency, people would know that the majority of their money goes into the pockets of the rich and select few in Graham, Washington.
to be continued.....
....Continued from above:
Then they have the nerve to accuse people of "running" and saying that if they were right they should stay and prove they were right. Why sit down and have a Dr. Pepper with the devil?
Which brings us to the act of disobedience.
When someone leaves the borg and there is no scandal involved it is always attributed to the sin of disobedience. Many are run off or cut off from the ntcc because if they disagree and were allowed to stay, then others would disagree. The act of disagreement is then considered an act of disobedience.
Before you worry about being disobedient or about being judged in eternal flames, first you need to decide if you are getting your information from a cult or from the word of God. Can you find any examples in the Bible where Grown men and women had to ask permission to the pastor to have someone over to their house? Can you find anywhere in the Bible where it says that if you Pastor a church you can not have a Dog or even a cat? Try owning one and see how that works out for you. Is it written in the Bible somewhere that you should be encouraged by the founder of an organization to get a vasectomy? Or that you should cut ties with your brethren if they leave your church because they want some freedom in their lives? Many of them are not wanting to go into sin, they are just wanting to escape from tyranny.
Oh that evil couple wants to attend a Chris Tomlin concert or a Heavenfest event. They want to worship God differently than what we taught them was acceptable.
I'm sorry, but I take offense to that because it's not biblical. I was reading today that there was a number of saints that no man could number Worshiping God. In another place there were ten thousand times ten thousand and thousands of thousands. Thats over one hundred million if my math is correct. Where is God going to find all of these saints if the ntcc is the only voice of truth and the last hope on earth?
I'm sorry but the more I look at this group of control freaks, the more I see a big cesspool of hypocrites that are in it for the money and not to get folks to heaven.
Don't worry about them accusing you of running, they have done far worse. Don't worry about them dis-fellowshipping you or talking bad about you after you leave. There is only one that you have to please and they are not the ones sitting up in Graham living in the lap of luxury.
Don and Ange
Run. walk. crawl. Whatever. If God is leading someone out, do what you have to and be set free. You will not regret it. You will only kick yourself you stayed so long as you did.
The ntcc manipulate every situation to their advantage all in the name of the Lord. If you get tired of the controlling treatment or just disagree with anything and make that known, you can never be right because they are never wrong. Talk to anyone in leadership when you have a problem and see what happens, and definitely don't tell them anything in confidence. That's a joke. Your words will be twisted and things will be covered up and brushed over. You will be told you are just listening to lies of the devil. That's the answer for every thing. This is my own experience.
How can you get away with such wrongs toward people and hide behind the gospel of Jesus Christ all the while? In the end you can't. It's good to know a day is coming when everything will be revealed.I feel sorry for them and I'd rather be in my own shoes than some of theirs.
from mcks blog
""if they are right, and have been done wrong, they still should not run, because that takes away the chance for them to prove they were right.""
Whose trying to prove right or wrong anyway? Most who leave have had it up to their eyeballs with the trash treatment and don't care to prove they are right about anything. ntcc is always trying to prove how right they are, thats all.
Stick around nttc or run as mck says, and it don't change anything. Get real, this is not written to those who left but its for those who remain in ntcc and is classic mind manipulation of the sheeple. Thats all.
The loudest voice who determines right or wrong in NTCC.
Anonymous said:
"Whose trying to prove right or wrong anyway? Most who leave have had it up to their eyeballs with the trash treatment and don't care to prove they are right about anything. ntcc is always trying to prove how right they are, thats all."
Don and Ange said:
We definitely agree with your assessment of the ntcc. mck is like a little kid that gets beat up by his older brother all the time. Every time someone leaves they take a chunk out of his wallet, and then he lashes out with his mouth. "If they were right, they would have stayed and faced us so they could prove they were right". Then others see how futile his approach toward winning friends and influencing people is so they leave and take another chunk out of his wallet.
Maybe you are no longer winning and you should take a different approach. Maybe people are leaving because they are beginning to see the hypocrisy in the lives of those who are supposed to be examples. Why is it that they have become so quickly removed from the gospel they once preached? Is it possible that it has something to do with money?
You are right Anonymous, people have had it up to their eyeballs with the ntcc. We see peoples blogs and facebook pages and we know they got one foot in the ntcc and another pointed in the direction that God wants them to go, and that is out the door. There are people in the ntcc that really are not there. Their hearts have been gone for a long time. They are not contemplating their relationship with God they are wondering how to leave without wasting so many years of their lives.
People find themselves in a dilemma. They want to leave but they have no credentials that translate into Pastoring a church outside of the ntcc. They are probably more qualified than your average Joe, but the ntcc made sure to make it difficult on them if they ever left. How twisted are they? Not only are they unaccredited but they try to discredit everyone that leaves.
My advise for what it's worth is to just leave and God will work out the rest. Take as many with you as you can so that their dreams are not destroyed and their lives are not wasted. If you want to be a Pastor of a church, God will work it out for you. It might be easier than you think. I am amazed at how many things worked out in my life. There are so many avenues that can lead to your objective and God is faithful to open doors. The ntcc made salvation seem next to impossible and it was never intended to be difficult.
I believe that God wants every one of us to be the best we can and if we seek Him first, things will happen. The best thing a person can do is leave the ntcc and if any one asks you why, don't be afraid to tell them. And when it's all said and done you will find peace, and that more abundant than you ever imagined.
Don and Ange
The ntcc made salvation seem next to impossible and it was never intended to be difficult.
from Don Ange
Quote from rw davis. " the hardest thing you will ever do is make the rapture of the church". Living for God is made difficult in ntcc. It HAS to be a sacrifice for the work of God. WHY,or else the way you are made to live makes no sense!!!
April
April said, It HAS to be a sacrifice for the work of God. WHY,or else the way you are made to live makes no sense!!!
Thats deep.
I think April is saying that Jesus made the sacrifice when he shed his blood on the cross. I understand that we should be a "living sacrifice" which is our reasonable service but that does not take the place of what Jesus did.
Heaven can not be entered as a result of our work. You'll make it to heaven because of what Jesus did. When RWD says, "the hardest thing you'll ever do is make the rapture of the church" he is putting the burden solely on our shoulders and taking Jesus out of the equation.
The NTCC tries to base your salvation on your own works, successes and failures. It's true, that is what they do. I can't tell you how many times I've heard an NTCC preacher say, "because you did this or didn't do that, you're not saved". If you don't feel like going to church on Thursday, "you're not saved", if you got mad at your wife, "you're not saved", if you don't want to soul win every Saturday, "you're not saved", if you don't want to run across the whole city to pick someone up for church, "you're not saved"!!!! The list goes on and on. That is what April is talking about. The NTCC has salvation all backwards but not really. I think they really know but the NTCC leadership has been controlling people for so long and getting their way, that they've always resorted to guilt tripping people into doing more work and giving more money by telling them, "you're not saved".
The NTCC sucks. They NTCC leadership is manipulative, abusive and a bunch of control freak mongers.
Jeff
They make it a chore, burden and based upon your performance. What ever happened to "resting in Christ" - (Hebrews 4)? They say that there is no rest for the wicked, but there doesn't seem to be any for the NTCCer either. "Striving for the Mastery" sounds more like striving to be liked by your master...
Jeff said,
NTCC preacher say, "because you did this or didn't do that, you're not saved". If you don't feel like going to church on Thursday, "you're not saved"
Christ's suffering and death reduced to a list of do's and don'ts. Shockingly this negates the need for Him.
rw davis was always pushing that we had to sacrifice for the work of the lord. That is what I was getting at. If folks didn't think what there doing is worth something to God. Then how there made to live,staying POOR. It would not make sense.
got it now?
April
No, what you wrote made little or no sense. Not only did it not make sense but it was hard to read. You put periods where you should have put commas. If you want to continue a sentence, put a comma not a period.
Example: You wrote... "If folks didn't think what there doing is worth something to God. Then how there made to live,staying POOR."
I'm not sure what you were trying to say but here is an idea of how you should have written it.... If folks don't think what they're doing is worth something to God "comma", than why are they made to live in poverty?
You wrote "there" where you should have put "they're" which means "they are". At least I'm guessing that is what you were trying to say?
Your writing is not the easiest to read April and honestly, I'm really not sure what you were trying to say.
Please understand that I'm not picking at you but your writing is hard to decipher.
"Please understand that I'm not picking at you but your writing is hard to decipher. "
Anon grammar police!
Anon (grammar police) said,
I'm not sure what you were trying to say but here is an idea of how you should have written it.... If folks don't think what they're doing is worth something to God "comma", than why are they made to live in poverty?
Dear Mr. Grammar Police,
Your command of grammar isn't that great either. Maybe you should look up the proper usage of "then" and "than".
Sincerely,
Your Fifth Grade English Teacher
Please forgive me. Maybe you are Miss, Ms. or Mrs. Grammar Police. ;-)
Here come the judge, here come the judge. Grammar police or no grammar police "comma", April's writing is hard to decipher.
Anon the grammar police
Before you correct me, I deliberately wrote the word "come" rather "than" "comes". Here come the judge, here come the judge. Get it? Laugh, laugh, laugh, funny, funny, funny.
I don't claim to have the greatest grammar but April needs some help, Miss, Ms, Mrs or Mr Fifth Grade Teacher.
If you you judge another and are guilty of the same thing yourself, that is a sad way to live. Doesn't it show a very poor spirit within? I believe the Pharisees were like that.
Whatever. April needs to take a little more time before she posts a comment. I know I'm not the only one who finds it hard to read what she writes. Who made you the judge?
Good Morning all!!! I couldn't help noticing that the topic has changed from the Reeds to Aprils grammar. It happens all the time and it's one reason I like Jeff's blog. Just when you think it dies, it comes back to life. Freedom is awesome.
We love you April and understood your point. I think we are all on the same side here, I hope anyway.
This morning while reading the end of the "book", I noticed this scripture in the last chapter of the bible: "And if any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:" And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life..." Rev. 22:19
I already knew this scripture was there, but repetition is a great teacher or so we've been taught. My wife who knows the bible much better than I quoted it a day or two ago and it came up again this morning. It seems to me that it's already hard enough to make it into heaven, without some bible thumping hypocrite making up his own doctrines of vasectomies, celibacy, encouragement of adultery, splitting up families and so on.
April brought up a very good point in quoting rwd's famous words about making the rapture. It may be hard to make it but that is exactly why God sent His only Son; to make a way for us. I'm not saying that grace gives us a license to sin, but Grace is a very awesome and powerful gift. Debbie Reed posted a very inspiring piece called "A breath of fresh Grace". It did my soul a lot of good to read it.
Grace allows us to enjoy this life that God has given us. It gives us the freedom to enjoy the simple pleasures in life that God intended for us to enjoy. It goes hand in hand with Love. We don't have to live in fear any more because of God's grace. Jesus paid the price for us. All of this we have heard and seen in the ntcc; we have witnessed much talk about grace by the ntcc but have seen very little in actions to substantiate their words.
Policies of control were instituted to make us more critical of others and we were told that if we adhered to them that we would be special above all people on the earth. We worked and we worked and we worked and tried to find peace in God's grace but there was something missing. We dedicated years of our lives and lived in what we considered Godly fear so that we could "make the rapture". But after years of working and years of doing our best and never measuring up to the greatness expected of us we found ourselves like a turtle on his back, not going anywhere.
We were missing Grace in our lives. The ntcc wants you to work your way to heaven. It makes them feel exclusive. The harder they work and the more they do; they compare their works to the works of others and say, "Look how great we are in comparison". They add doctrines to the Word of truth and say if you love God you will do these things. Where is Grace? Why was the all-time greatest gift of Jesus done away with in the ntcc?
If you are in the ntcc and find yourself spinning you wheels and wondering where the last few decades of your life have gone, try taking the plunge into Grace. We're not encouraging you to go to the Bars and strip clubs and other places of ill-repute. We aren't asking you to leave God or change your life or routine. The ntcc has added doctrines and taken away God's Grace from you and when you find it you truly will enjoy the freedom God has intended all along for you to enjoy.
Don and Ange
We said,
"But after years of working and years of doing our best and never measuring up to the greatness expected of us we found ourselves like a turtle on his back, not going anywhere."
We reply:
We bought a futon for our living room and when we sit in it we sometimes feel like turtles that can't get up. You sink down into it and have to fight gravity and age and calories to get out of it. We are soon going to replace it with a couch.
But the point I was making was that after years of working and going along with the ntcc scam, you find yourself no closer to God then you were when you started out. In fact, you were probably much better off when you first believed than you are after being brainwashed by false doctrines and ntcc policies. With the ntcc, you go nowhere like the turtle on his or her (not discriminating) back. The work that you do is not allowed to grow. The souls that you have harvested are blown away with the chaff by the winds of the ntcc cemetery, I mean seminary. All the work that you do comes to naught because there is very little grace in the ntcc.
Don and Ange
Amonymouse,
If aperson are able to understand a post enough to corect the punctuations a also grammers too...than they underesteemed the post so want’s THE point of the pubic correction too instrunct other's too instrunct the righter Too shownoff or too find faults.
This is comon on these blog's A person’s can refer and argregates’ of testimony but they have also too approve of something...so they connect grammers and punctuations.
I now I am not the best righter but I try my beast on peoples (or persons, or personals) seems to understrand me so I must be doing somethings right communications IS AN inactact extrusion of the breast, if underestimating can be accomplished than this are all this can be expatriation (in my humble esteem).
I also haves many dribbles (again in my humble esteem).
Jump my too sense,
Also Anomalous (a.l.a. Gregory)
Greg, that was easier to understand. You should give April some grammar lessons. I just guessed at what she was trying to say. If I was right, it was pure luck. It's good that you guys are taking up for her. If NTCC people stuck together this well we might be better off.
The Grammar Policeman (My new screen name)
Grammar fault finders and knitpickers in NTCC...It was only until recently that getting a secular education was acceptable for ministers, their children and congregants. I guess they figured more education means better jobs, which means more tithe and offerings. With the advent of more online schooling, it has become easier than ever to get a degree or advanced training in whatever field you desire. Then they want you to stay just as busy running around visiting people and getting to church, all the while affecting your performance in school and making you feel guilty. GK doesn't have that problem...
For those of you who can't admit that you are getting robbed in NTCC. Check out the following on Bing (cool rotate) and Google Maps (little newer on maps) -
MCK (New) - 22026 131st St E
Graham, WA 98338
MCK (Old) - 22515 145th Avenue East, Graham, WA 98338
RWD - 22022 131st Ave E
Graham, WA 98338
Start at 20921 133rd Ave E Graham WA 98338 and look around the area. Travel down Orting Kapowsin for 39 acres and you'll see a bunch of little houses.
Old news to some, but here is a link to look atproperty info in Pierce County, Washington and start doing the math -
http://epip.co.pierce.wa.us/cfapps/atr/epip/search.cfm
Permit Search:
http://www.co.pierce.wa.us/cfapps/dcis/Permitsearch.cfm
Good job EG - Its always Goshen for the NTCC:
http://www.sos.wa.gov/corps/search_results.aspx?search_type=simple&criteria=all&name_type=starts_with&name=Goshen+Property&ubi=
https://fortress.wa.gov/lni/bbip/Detail.aspx?License=GESANE*044CF
Briggs - Pasadena, TX
http://www.hctax.net/asp/propertytax/current/2010statement.asp?Account=0610860000087
Go to this webpage and use Account# 0610860000087
http://www.hcad.org/records/Real.asp?search=acct
Anon -
What's the point with the Briggs info? Looks like some sweet property to me.
As far as the MCK robbing the members. I would promote that if I had some real proof. Can you pull some bank records to make the point? Transaction documentation? Save the land gift from NTCC , I've already got a copy of that in my bag.
BK.
I posted the former because accusations are fine as long as you have some proof. Otherwise, one is just blowin' and goin'.
Show us the records, not just the fruit thereof. I save my money and I haven't robbed anyone that I know of. Would you accuse me of the same thing? Fine, but show me the proof on paper, not just Pierce County records.
That's all...
BK.
BK said,
"I posted the former because accusations are fine as long as you have some proof. Otherwise, one is just blowin' and goin'."
Impossible to prove!
Ok... what's the point with the property tax informaiton on our church? BTW it's is far below what we paid for it 6 years ago.
Your point is what? That your stupid?
Anonymous said...
Impossible to prove!
Jeff said...
Bologna!!! Here is all the proof I need.
A young serviceman named Mike Kekel gets out of the Military with no more money than any other GI who got out. He goes to the NTCS, meets the founder's daughter, does a little hanky panky with her when she is a young teenager and marries her. Winds up in Graham Washington pastoring the largest church because he is the husband of the founder's daughter. While the other NTCC pastors are running all over creation struggling and pioneering churches, Mike Kekel is staying put and accumulating money rapidly. His wife Tanya is teaching in the NTCS and being anything other than a keeper at home while other women are being told it's a sin to work. They pay about $20,000 dollars a year just to send Grant to high school while other families are struggling and holding their kids back a year because they are moving so often. RWD tells everyone in conference that NTCC Christian parents are a complete failure if their children don't attend the NTCS only to watch Grant sent off to attend a secular college.
In the process the NTCC donates Mike and Tanya a gift of 39 acres of property which as of 2008 was valued at about $373.000 smackeroos. Need I say more?
How much proof do you need? The NTCC is about making money and investing in real-estate if you happen to be one of the fortunate ones like Mike Kekel who gets it all handed to him on a platter while everyone else sacrifices and works their butt off for next to nothing.
You call that Christianity? Well I don't want it!!!!!!! The NTCC is a family run business! No more no less. If you can't see it, a document trail of paperwork the size of the White House could hit you in the head and you'd still need more proof.
You NTCCs who read this stuff and blindly ignore it are getting taken to the cleaners and frankly at this stage you deserve it. I don't need any more proof. Olson, Davis, Kekel, Kinson and Ashmore a bunch of crooks.
Jeff
There, my grammar is messed up also as usual. Olson, RWD, Kinson, Kekel and Ashmore "are" a bunch of crooks.
I would like just one person to come on here and refute a single point that I just made. All I stated was known facts. Mike Kekel wasn't a millionaire when he left for Bible School. FACT, and if I'm wrong, PROVE IT. Ha, ha. Mike Married the founders daughter. FACT. Mike was given the Graham Church. FACT. Many others moved all over the place and struggled while Mike and Tanya didn't. FACT. RWD said that an NTCC parent was a failure if their children didn't attend the NTCS. FACT. Grant Kekel is attending a secular college. FACT. Tonya Kekel works at the NTCS. FACT. NTCC women are taught that is it a sin to work outside the house. FACT. The Kekels were given 39 acres of land as a gift by the New Testament Christian Churches of America INC. FACT. RWD and the NTCC never gave anyone else 39 acres of land as a gift. FACT. If they did prove it! Ha, ha.
Grant Kekel attended Charles Wright Academy at a cost of nearly $20,000 a year. FACT. Most all other NTCC parents couldn't even dream of affording a school like that for their children but they could have if they'd married Tanya. FACT.
I don't need to provide proof. Prove me wrong!
Jeff
I state known facts. FACT. LOL, ha, ha, ha.
Jeff
Good synopsis Jeff!
"Impossible to prove!"
with God and webcams, all things are possible ha ha ha
Jeff -
I understand your frustration and what you have typed has truth, but you still have failed to prove that MCK is taking monies that do not belong to him, nor have you proven the investments he's made to bring about the fruit which you see.
Can you show bank statements and proof that the accusations that have been bought forth can be proven. Show us.
BK
Bixby Knolls said...
I understand your frustration and what you have typed has truth, but you still have failed to prove that MCK is taking monies that do not belong to him, nor have you proven the investments he's made to bring about the fruit which you see.
Jeff said...
What I've typed doesn't "have" truth, it "is" truth. Mike Kekel has what the NTCC has given him. Mike Kekel couldn't invest anything if he didn't have money to invest and the stability to use the money for what he wants rather than pioneering works and moving around all the time. That is what you don't get or you choose not to. Did the NTCC gift you 39 acres of land valued at approx $350,00 to $400,000 dollars? Unless you are Mike Kekel, NO!
Do you know what the word nepotism means? Nepotism doesn't line up with the Bible. Nepotism is partiality. What, I can't prove that Grant Kekel is attending a secular college? Yes I can. What, I can't prove that RWD said you are a failure as a parent if your child doesn't attend the NTCS? Yes I can; I listened to RWD speak in conference and I heard what he said. Mike and Tanya get preferential treatment and that is unrighteous. RWD wouldn't let most others get preferential treatment. He wouldn't even let Matt Reed pastor in Washington because his wife had family their but the Kekels get land, special privileges and you call that righteous? 5 years ago RWD would have jumped down my throat if my daughter would have attended a secular college. I have letters from two NTCC pastors addressed to my daughters school forbidding her from participating in gym but Grant got to wear shorts and tight football pants in a school that cost about $20,000 a year?
Tuition costs are posted on Charles Wright Academy's website. And all that money is spent while the majority of us are struggling while funding every endeavor the NTCC could dream up? Stop with all this proof garbage. I don't have to prove what I know. The NTCC is a family business.
If I was given the fattest church with all kinds of money coming in and 39 acres of land I'd make investments also. That ain't no mystery. You act like Mike Kekel did it all on his own. Send him around to pioneer new churches and take over failing churches every couple years and see if he'd be sitting so fat and happy. I don't need proof to use common sense. Prove me wrong.
Jeff
BK asked....
Can you show bank statements?
Jeff said...
What kind of ridiculous question is that? Does Mike Kekel have access to my bank statements? Why would you even aske that question. That is no more than an NTCC tactic used to try and bait someone into answering a question that the person who asked it already knew the answer to. I don't need bank statements to recognize partiality and nepotism. I don't need bank statements to see NTCC ministers with an old car broke down on the side of the road with their family while the Kekels sit fat and happy in Graham for no other reason than Tanya being RWDs daughter.
Why do I need bank statements to see that? I don't need bank statements to recognize double standards, hypocrisy, partiality, abuse and a control monger minister who misuses his pulpit while letting his daughter and son in law get away with what he's preached against for about 4 decades.
Wake up Bixby. You know what I'm saying is true. You and I have probably discussed these things. Mike and Tanya have gotten special treatment and I'll never need a bank statement to prove that. We all know it and if you don't you are blind.
Jeff
Jeff said,
"Mike Kekel has what the NTCC has given him. Mike Kekel couldn't invest anything if he didn't have money to invest and the stability to use the money for what he wants rather than pioneering works and moving around all the time."
The market grew by leaps and bounds during the 80's. What's in your wallet?
So RWD gave a $3000 draw every now and then. That is chump change. That is like dangling a carrot in front of a rabbit. Not long after the rabbit eats it he needs another just to sustain himself.
Mike Kekel didn't get carrots and you can best believe that. He got the whole field. Plants everywhere. Yeah the NTCC leadership and more specifically RWD can give NTCC money to whoever he wants but that doesn't make it right especially when so many have given their last dollar just to watch Grant Kekel live a life that their kids could have only dreamed of.
You can send your money to Graham but they won't get another dime from me. I also have children who I love who need my money and attention. I'd watch the Kekels sit on the side of the road with a broke down car just like they've watched so many of their brethren. The NTCC uses people and I'd rather throw my money in the trash than give it to the NTCC if I knew that one dime of it was going toward Grant Kekel's secular college education.
Anyone who's child goes without in the NTCC is a poor parent. They've placed the NTCCs money making business before the welfare of their own child. That is sorry. You brought your child into this world so stop funding the Kekel's endeavors and start taking better care of you own children. I know one thing. My little boy won't be accusing me of giving the NTCC all my time and money at his expense. Thank God that I got out of the NTCC when I did so that won't be one more bit of guilt that I have to live with. I live with plent others as the result of my involvenment with the NTCC.
Jeff
to bad those stuck in ntcc did not watch tv. there is a show the Extreme preacher wives coupon habits could land them a spot on TLC's new show. Extreme couponing. These ladies on the show put sister Mederano to shame. just watched one lady save 1,000 on ONE shopping trip.
Anonymous said...
The market grew by leaps and bounds during the 80's. What's in your wallet?
Jeff said...
None of your business but I'll tell you what is not in my wallet. Money from a bunch of struggling Christians who've I've told will be failures if their children don't attend the NTCS. I'll tell you what else isn't in my wallet. Money that should have been spent on a full time maid but instead I saved my money while brainwashing women from my church to come over and clean my house. I'll tell you what other money isn't in my wallet. Money from a $15,000 donation for a parking lot that didn't get paved or a $20,000 pledge for a mission work that never happened.
The NTCC is a corporation. If it is in the NTCC's name that is the same as it being in RWD's wallet. That is why the NTCC could take 39 acres of land which was being held in the NTCC name and give it to the Kekels as a gift. Everything in the NTCCs name could very easily wind up in the Kekels wallet just like the 39 acres did.
Jeff
Pastor Davis never allowed us all to use the Stock Market. Savings Bonds only...then buy property when you had enough.
Gregory
Jeff said...
None of your business but I'll tell you what is not in my wallet. Money from a bunch of struggling Christians
Can you prove they stole the money? Don't get me wrong, it is something how RWD and MCK seem to be the only ones living the way they do, but can you show us on paper that what you say is true. If not, then it's assumptions based on what you see.
BK
The only way you could prove it is when the IRS and FBI drop the hammer on them and they have their assets seized. Then the real spotlight will come to the church behind the fence.
Investing in the stock market was considered gambling in the NTCC. RWD always recommended savings bonds in his classes. Real estate was mentioned but who could put that together and a down payment while living pay check to pay check?
"WINNING" - Charlie Sheen
I know I will receive a verbal slam job for this, but RWD also taught them to save 10% as well.
BK.
Yeah Bixby, "Richest Man in Babylon" by George Clason. So take care of your family first or you are worse than an infidel. Then pay your tithe or you'll be cursed with a curse because you don't want to rob God and then everything will be unicorns and rainbows.
The last job the MCK worked for was for something like $9 an hour. If he worked 40 hours a week for 52 weeks that would gross at $18,720. Factor in there taxes, food, clothes and rent and you don't see room for much else. So he preached as an evangelist and got a little gas money? You also know he went to conferences, so let's get real NTCCers.
(FACT) Back in 1986, the house that is next to Olson's current house was a wedding gift. Now it is in Olson's name and is probably a rental property for him. This is Pierce County parcel 0418115024.
(FACT) The Bonco Compound land was purchased for $650,000 (plus fees) and they have multiplied their investment 7 times over with developing and building houses. So how much could that 39 acres Skim a little equity off the top for yourself and commit others to paying off the mortgage for you. That is the tax free way of "paying yourself first". RWD personally gave the purchase money to NTCC and is being reimbursed by them for it. You missed that in your conference notes.
http://hartweb.co.pierce.wa.us/imgcache/etax1043544-1-3.pdf
or
http://hartweb.co.pierce.wa.us/search.asp?cabinet=etax
Instrument # 1043544
So did they really make all of their money with run down houses in the ghettos of St Louis, Missouri that are either gone or barely uninhabitable? Did they invest it in the bull market of the 90s? Did they invest it in gold or some other commodity? Do they have some kind of internet marketing millionaire business we don't know about? No, No, and no, so I guess that just means that the only logical conclusion is they made it off of the backs of young GIs, ministers and members that have pledged, given tithe and offerings, and paid for their lifestyle.
"The market grew by leaps and bounds during the 80's. What's in your wallet?"
Well, if you obeyed RW, you wouldn't even be thinking of "the market," participation in which RW roundly condemned. I attended the "Advanced School of Theology," which consisted mostly of harangues about money. I also sat in on plenty of RW's classes on the subject, which were numerous. It was like a cruel joke; he gave us all these pie in the sky methods to amass wealth (chief among them was developing a knack for using "OPM"--"Other Peoples' Money") that we could never put into play because we were kept broke by a massive parasitic drain on our lives.
I actually instituted the "Richest Man in Babylon" plan before bailing out of the org; we saved some money but only by extreme and inhuman frugality the like of which these elites claim to have experienced, but who really knows? Either way, leaving was like getting a giant raise, and the plan became workable without family deprivation. I have things today in spite of NTCC, and suspect I'd have a lot more if I'd never heard of them.
Some attack grammar. Because they know what the truth is. And the truth hurts. To bad!
those of you that are still in ntcc that come on this blog. We that blog to expose ntcc do it for YOU and others that might get hooked into this cult. if your like many of us. We came to the school on fire for God. thought we are doing Gods will,going to reach lost souls. That is not the ntcc hidden agenda.
Do what many of us didn't do. Listen to that nagging voice that tells you that something is not right. While your standing in line to get permission to do something with another ADULT. Do not push that voice down that is telling you that something is NOT RIGHT! Because,you think this is where God wants me,right???
You have something that many of us did not have. You can go online and read our true stories. Read our experience and what happened to us. And either NOT even go into one of there buildings to begin with. OR leave ASAP! What is shared is not to smear ntcc. We are sharing our TRUE stories!
he less you associate with some people, the more your life will improve.
Any time you tolerate mediocrity in others, it increases your mediocrity. An
important attribute in successful people is their impatience with negative
thinking and negative acting people. As you grow, your associates will
change. Some of your friends will not want you to go on. They will want you
to stay where they are. Friends that don't help you climb will want you to
crawl. Your friends will stretch your vision or choke your dream. Those that
don't increase you will eventually decrease you.
on mister Mike's blog
Some can read this and think,oh he really cares for me and my well being. Or for those of us not under that ntcc brainwashed fog. Can read this and know it is just a control tactic that has been used for YEARS! Keep you around just ntcc folks. Because you are led to believe there the only ones we can associate with. And even then,only one's that have good numbers in there local churches. Those that we ask, so how is it going at your "church". and all you got is very low numbers. In there eyes,your a LOSER! And they should not hang out with you. You will just bring you down to there level!
Ntcc keeps folks grouped together who they want to hang out with each other.
Another thing to think on. Why does Mike K. not like folks to call him by his first name. It is not because he wants to stay stuck in old fashion social grace's!!!! If you call him Mike. He will lose his lofty postion of high and mighty know it all minister. The curtains will be drawn back and EXPOSE him. He has no more knowledge then you!! So that means he is no better then any other minister in ntcc!!!!!!
I can't see why they can't see past the cold hard facts of numbers and what is happening around them. Here are some interesting articles on "private inurement", which is what happened when the NTCC gave that land away.
http://www.boardsource.org/Knowledge.asp?ID=3.165
http://charitylawyerblog.com/2009/11/18/nonprofit-law-jargon-buster-private-inurement-v-private-benefit/
They mention in their bylaws about not doing things based on "any business for pecuniary profit" (NTCC Purposes - Paragraph 9), but get real NTCCers. They get credit cards from the organization, vehicles and insurance and paid vacation and probably a salary from the organization. I hope they have their non-profit status revoked and get investigated by the IRS and FBI.
"While your standing in line to get permission to do something with another ADULT."
What are you talking about? People don't need permission to talk to other adults.
Please explain this one.
BK
Bixby, did you ever spend any time in the NTCC as a minister? Some were specific to Bible School students and ministers, while others were standard procedures. Generally, you had to ask permission to talk to a girl at fellowship after church in Graham (probably in St Louis for the old-timers) on the infamous "Wall". You needed permission for calling people long distance. You needed permission to go shopping with another brother or sister. You needed permission to have another kid over for a birthday party. That was weird because you could only have just 1 other kid there and they discouraged having them at all. You needed permission to sell a car, house or other property to another minister and you weren't supposed to buy anything from a church member. You needed permission to quit a job (you needed to have one while in school). You needed permission to visit other NTCC churches on the way to conference. You needed permission to visit family if you were assigned to a church. You get the point or are you playing ignorant?
If RWD was on a trip, you couldn't talk to your girl friend until next week. You weren't supposed to talk in the parking lot, on the phone, in the grocery store or wherever. That was particular to Bible School students, but ministers could ask for a church members number in Graham or someone elses and at least communicate.
Bixby Said:
"I know I will receive a verbal slam job for this, but RWD also taught them to save 10% as well."
Don and Ange said:
"10% of nothing is still nothing. By the time you:
**pay ntcc 10%~15% plus give in offerings, plus building pledges, mission pledges, Sunday night budget offerings, children's church supplies, church maintenance and cleaning supplies, upcoming revival offerings, etc....
**pay Uncle Sam ~22% income taxes plus state and local income taxes, and for the church rent, property taxes, insurance, utilities, escrow, etc., etc., etc....
**then pay for your family's rent, utilities, groceries, vehicle maintenance, gas, insurance, registration, and taxes....
**then pay to travel to conference twice a year, child care during conference, time lost at work, including possibly losing a job to attend the conference...
**money to pack everything you own in your old used car, and move your family (again) to another run-down ntcc church building that they expect you to fix up so they can move you at the next conference, close the work and sell the renovated building for a profit with nobody but them knowing where that money went along with all the offerings that the congregation pledged for a better or new building (like Vic Johanson and Doug Allen testified happened in Fairbanks, Alaska - poof that money disappeared into the ntcc black hole of (offshore or Swiss?) ntcc bank accounts... ahem
**Meanwhile you, the average ntcc minister, are struggling digging out a new pioneer work or renovating another ntcc "fixer-upper" so the ntcc can flip that property too or rent it out to another sucker at a higher rent...
**And the vicious cycle of you "giving 'til it hurts" repeats itself while you pray and wonder what you are doing wrong and why you never have anything... Uhm....
Well, the average bear can see that all your giving to ntcc LEAVES NOTHING FOR SAVINGS!
Guess what, people, YOU are not the one with the problem. Your "spending habits" did not make you broke. Your selfish 'leaders' demanding more of you than is reasonably humanly possible and taking advantage of your innocence is what got you broke, broken, busted and disgusted.
Don't worry. Just free yourself of the ntcc parasites and leeches and see how God will bless you then! He is just waiting to see you shake off those blood sucking maggots before He really pours out the blessings on you.
Just ask Jeff and others who "gave 'til it hurt" and see what they tell you.
Oh wait, Jeff already did that thread... =D
Don and Ange
These ntcc ministers who put this together year after year, often from minimum wage jobs, deserve respect and accountability from the 'leaders' who take their tithes and offerings.
Instead, ntcc 'leaders' mock these ministers from the pulpit for driving "oil pukers" "junkers" and "klunkers"
and kekel blows and goes from the pulpit and on his smog blog saying they are fearful and running from the call of God when they wake up and realize old age is coming and they have literally nothing to show for all the work they have done and all that they have given to the ntcc... kekel is such a big-mouth who never went anywhere or did anything that he criticizes others for not doing to his liking. SHOW US or SHUT UP kekel. Not everyone can marry the founder's adopted daughter and live with a silver spoon in their mouth as you have done. Show some respect before you demand it mUck you go-nowhere, do-nothing but spend other people's money big-mouth braggart!
The only thing they have to show for God is buildings and lands. How many people are in their organization, maybe 5000? How many lives have they really made a difference in, both physically and spiritually? The bylaws talk about creating ("inaugurating") charitable institutions, retired ministers housing but it is really just cleverly written as an example of what they MIGHT do for charity. Follow Jesus' example...
Even back in the 50s and 60s, Billy Graham talked to more people in 1 service (in stadium and TV) than NTCC ever will have in any of its churches for 100 years. He has done more for God...
Bixby, did you ever spend any time in the NTCC as a minister?
Some rules trickled down to the regular churches.
"kekel blows and goes from the pulpit ... kekel is such a big-mouth who never went anywhere or did anything that he criticizes others for not doing to his liking. SHOW US or SHUT UP kekel. Not everyone can marry the founder's adopted daughter and live with a silver spoon in their mouth as you have done. Show some respect before you demand it mUck you go-nowhere, do-nothing but spend other people's money big-mouth braggart!"
......
Hey, Don and Ange, don't hold back! Tell us what you REALLY think. lol
I'd Rather Have Jesus - Rhea Miller
I’d rather have Jesus than silver or gold;
I’d rather be His than have riches untold;
I’d rather have Jesus than houses or lands;
I’d rather be led by His nail-pierced hand
Refrain:
Than to be the king of a vast domain
And be held in sin’s dread sway;
I’d rather have Jesus than anything
This world affords today.
I’d rather have Jesus than men’s applause;
I’d rather be faithful to His dear cause;
I’d rather have Jesus than worldwide fame;
I’d rather be true to His holy name
He’s fairer than lilies of rarest bloom;
He’s sweeter than honey from out the comb;
He’s all that my hungering spirit needs;
I’d rather have Jesus and let Him lead
That was a poem by her, but George Beverly Shea wrote the melody and sang it. He sang for Billy Graham some time later and he's done more to bless people during those crusades than many realize. When I'd hear him sing that or "Just as I Am" it has a way of taking you back to when you first met Jesus.
Knowing how Matthew is, I knew something pretty huge must have happened to break his attachment to Davis.
Everyone should listen to their words as to what broke the camels back.
I think it is really funny that Deb Reed said they photoshopped the dish off the house when they used that picture in the Trumpet. They are still trying to portray tv as evil when they have always watched it.
Davis even told me in class that he can watch tv but we don't have the super spirituality he has to watch it. Jerk.
I took all these people yelling at me all these years and then everybody finally sees how they are and leaves too. I'm so glad I was told that spending any time with my husband when I first married him was taking him away from his calling to God. Have fun kicking it in Guam together.
Sounds like the "Enquirer" They said, she said......etc.
Nicole b "said"
Deb Reed said they photo shopped the dish off the house when they used that picture in the Trumpet. They are still trying to portray tv as evil when they have always watched it.
Who's they? And can you prove "they" have a dish/ tv?
Someone help me with my "investigation".
Thanks BK.
BK has never been a minister, plays ignorant and then defends practices of the NTCC without knowing their original intent and what was forced upon people. BK, you can't have it your way, right away...
Don and Ange said -
"These ntcc ministers who put this together year after year, often from minimum wage jobs, deserve respect and accountability from the 'leaders' who take their tithes and offerings."
AGREED! There should be accountability in some form or another and there is not. But if you ask about it, then you have a problem with money, etc etc.
People have a right to know why gifts were given, etc. The "official" response we got was just legal jargon. Especially after they were told, "If you give something to the church, it belongs to the church".
Good point.
BK.
I think that church members would quit coming if they found out about NTCC churches being on their own. There are groups where their churches may be autonomous but at least they band together for some support at different times. in the secular world, companies and even the military will pay moving expenses for a person and their family. In the NTCC, you have to ask permission to talk to the minister you're going to be releaving, but you should have been talking months before that in order to line up a job, place to live (how will you do that without a job?) and many things related to your family.
For all the time I spent in New Testament Christian Churches and the 4 to 5 years I spent in Graham in the ever changing Seminary/ Bible School how ever you want to name it, I get called the Enquirer.
A first hand witness is not the enquirer and you obviously never had Davis in a pastor's class. They = Davis Olsen etc. They = the leadership of ntcc. Duh.
I'd like Matthew Reed to name one person in Junction City Kansas he soulwinned, brought to church, and got saved.
Because a whole lot of people got screamed at about this to pump up his church numbers and marriages got destroyed.
Matthew Reed wanted to emulate his leaders to the max and that is letting the flock soul win new members while he got the credit for it and profited from it.
The best question to ask is for a list of names of all the people Kekel, Davis, Olsen, Reed soulwinned completely themselves, won to God, drove to church, got saved.
What a short invisible list that would be indeed.
Nicole -
So you're saying (which was my point) that davis, olson have a tv? I don't think so.
My question, concerning your dish tv comment, it who has one?
BK
Will any of the couples who had their marriages destroyed because it was against NTCC policy for them to spend an ounce of time together ever get an apology from those who lead these churches for 25 years?
From those who enforced this policy? Or do they happily skip along and say there was no such drama? All of that doesn't count? Those people didn't and don't matter?
I guess I must have missed all that you all have been talking about.
I have not been robbed.
I have not been cheated.
Everyone was told what to do to have things and get things, so we prayed, loved the Lord, gave offerings and paid tithe and the Lord blessed us.
So, what we have, we have and we do not feel bad about being blessed.
NANB
TV is such a trivial topic compared to the well being of a person.
It takes a marriage on the brink of divorce to get one week off of the intense serviceman's home schedule. I saw this happen with a couple in Junction City.
Marriage in ntcc is about anything but marriage. It is about recruiting people and bringing in more money.
Time with a spouse is the last thing allowed. I'll be honest, it really angers me that someone can promote this cult like behavior for 25 years and walk away as if no wrong was done.
It's tore up from the floor up.
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