While in Columbus Georgia, Pastor J. Hunt stood up in the beginning of service proudly proclaiming his allegiance to the New Testament Christian Church and more accurately to R.W. Davis. He boldly stated and I quote, "I'm A Company Man". He then reaffirmed, "That's right, I"m A Company Man and Proud of it." At the time, his statement didn't quite register with me even though it did seem rather strange that he would make such a bold proclamation and it did stick with me. Certain statements that NTCC pastors made over the years did stick with me and that was one of them. It was right after the split and at that time, Hunt wanted everyone under the sound of his voice to clearly understand where his allegiance lay. Well now, I clearly understand where their allegiance doesn't lay... With God!!!
You see it's impossible for someone who not only to swears allegiance to a corporation/church but to a man, to remain loyal to God and able to listen and heed to Godly convictions. You just can't do it. At some time a church will fail, (which the New Testament Christian Church has done quite miserably) and man will fail (as did RWD so miserably). So what you have a person (like J Hunt) and other pastors in the NTCC who I won't mention, who turn a blind eye to all the double standards, hypocrisy and treachery perpetuated by the NTCC and why? Because they are no longer loyal to God, (if they ever were) but they are loyal to a corporation and a corporate owner who in this case is the New Testament Christian Church / R.W. Davis and they proudly proclaim their loyalty by saying, "I'm A Company Man." I thought they were supposed to be God's man but they are not because you best believe that the NTCC isn't God's church.
This is why guys like Hunt and Kinson get so upset when you say a single word against RWD. Guys like this no longer possess the ability to think logically. They really don't. RWD could murder someone right in front of them and they would somehow figure out a way in their mind to justify his actions. This is how they justify all the double standards which so obviously and clearly exist within the NTCC.
I told Hunt and his wife exactly what I thought about the NTCC not too long ago right in the main lobby of the Main PX at Ft. Benning. I told them how RWD and the NTCC has wrecked the lives of so many young children and adults by insisting that they attend the NTCS while simultaneously condemning secular college attendance. I said that RWD and Kekel were hypocrites in that Grant Kekel was attending a secular Catholic college when previously that kind of stuff was openly condemned. Do you know what Hunt's wife said? She said, "Pastor Davis has admitted that he made mistakes and he openly apologized to everyone during the last conference". Really? Are you serious? So that makes it all better? Are you kidding me?
You wreck the lives of countless people depriving them of any chance of a real education and in some cases even promoting that they quit high school and write it all off as "Pastor Davis has admitted that he made mistakes"? Are you serious? People like this are Company Men and a Company Women and they aren't even close to being saved according to the King James Bible that we all read. If you are a company man or a company woman, there is one thing for sure that you are not!!!! God's man or woman.
Jeff
149 comments:
Keep your story right, don't mix up the two events. Pastor has never stated anything about the college where Grant goes.
And when was the "other day" I do not know when "the other day" is/was? This year, last year? 3 years ago, when? Who was with you? Who heard you tell all this, "the other day"??
A Company man. Did not like that did you. Well, ok here it it is again, I AM A COMPANY MAN!!
Does Ms. Pelfrey write your stuff? You study her real well, I can tell from your writing. You are not that that...
Anonymous said:
"You are not that that..."
Can we get somebody that is literate to take sides with the ntcc? Or can they provide someone that can write a meaningful sentence? I know the ntcc is full of literate, licensed, authoritarian, unaccredited, theological hot shots and 'know it alls'; but can one of you anonymous types that knows how to complete sentences give this uneducated anonymous poster a little help?
By the way, if this is J. Hunt posting this, you are really showing your ignorance.
Anonymous said...
Keep your story right, don't mix up the two events. Pastor has never stated anything about the college where Grant goes.
Jeff said...
That is a lie and I'm not mixing two events. If you or Hunt, or whoever you are weren't a "company man", you wouldn't turn a blind eye to the fact that Grant Kekel is attending a secular Catholic college. And your sorry pastor (RWD) has said all kinds of things about the college that Grant attends. He said something about it every time he condemned secular college attendance, (because Grant's college falls in that catagory) and every time he condemned the catholics (because Grant's college falls in that catagory). There, you are wrong again and you'll be wrong every day until you depart the NTCC. And here is another reason that I'm not mixing up two events. When I mentioned the whole college deal to the Hunts it was Hunt's wife who said that your sorry pastor made all these apologies. So Einstein, these two events are very closely connected. Next....
Anonymous asked...
And when was the "other day" I do not know when "the other day" is/was?
Jeff said...
It doesn't matter when the other day was. How do you like that? If it wasn't today, (which it wasn't) then it was the other day. Ha, ha. All I'll tell you, (because I don't answer to NTCCers anymore) is that in relative terms, it wasn't that long ago so therefor it was "the other day" and even if it was three years ago (which it wasn't) it was still, "the other day". LOL. I can also tell from your writing that you are a brainwashed, yes man, NTCCer, company man, and I can clearly tell that you are not God's man or woman.
Jeff
who in the world would want to be a "company man' even folks that work in actual companies are not brainwashed robots. That no matter what changes occur. Do they keep there mouth shut and never say a word in disagreement to there Boss? Folks in ntcc are afraid to disagree with Mike,RW. I can remember a minor thing,mIke's tie was flipped over his shoulder while preaching. He left it that way. Just to see if anyone would dare to say anything to him. of course no on said a peep to the mighty man of gawd!
Folks in ntcc are not actual company men or women. There brainwashed cult members!
To all the NTCS graduates past, present, and future. My son’s kindergarten diploma is worth more than your Bible College so called diploma. NTCS isn’t even accredited so how can you compare that diploma to any other diploma. It’s a joke! That’s why MC Kekel and Grant went to a real college and got a diploma that’s worth something. Meanwhile you have your NTCS diploma on your wall next to a picture of RWD and you think you got something. LOL
"Pastor Davis has admitted that he made mistakes and he openly apologized to everyone during the last conference".
If she's referring to the half-hearted apology he made some years back in Graham, after some soft-spoken white minister with a funny accent preached a message, then it was in my opinion, not a real apology. Even MC Kekel taught us that if you apologize to someone you should say I'm sorry for (and state what you did that made you such a sorry dog).
That year when he apologized it was something like this:
I'm sorry if I offended you or if I did something wrong- BUT I HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING WRONG!
What kind of apology is that? First of all, our pre-programmed minds from NTCC tell us that if anything someone does offends us, Psa 119:165 kicks in and we believe that it is OUR FAULT that we allowed ourselves to get offended. So if you are black and someone calls you n----- it's YOUR fault for not loving the law of the Lord. Then he negates the second part by saying he hasn't done anything anyway! Why apologize if we are not supposed to get offended, and you haven't DONE anything wrong?
I heard him apologize at one conference probably around 2006. He's probably apologized during several conferences but that doesn't bring back someone's childhood. That also doesn't bring back decades of lost opportunities and careers which were completely thrown away.
If he really wants to apologize he'd offer monetary compensation to all the people he's connived. That would show true attrition. What did Jesus say? Sell all that you have and give to the poor. A hollow apology don't mean jack. He should foot the bill so that all his ministers are able to attend a real college like Grant.
Then I'd believe that he is truly sorry. Chances are, hell will freeze over before anything even close to that ever happens.
Jeff
Then I'd believe that he is truly sorry. Chances are, hell will freeze over before anything even close to that ever happens.
Jeff
Ha. More like Hell will freeze over and Satan will be giving free sleigh rides.
8) And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.
You could apply this to our situation and say it would show attrition on his part if he said something like:
"If I have conned others into giving all their money to make my organization "successful" while I used my own money to make myself and my own family rich, I restore to them fourfold."
Good example Kris and very funny Mark G. LOL. RDUB is such a con man that he would probably figure out a way to get satan to charge for the sleigh rides and give RDUB the money. Ha, ha. If there is any possible way for RDUB to get your money he's going to figure it out.
Next thing you know, he'll buy a fleet of vehicles and rent them out to the church members and ministers in Graham. Of course you will only be able to pay your car rent in CASH.
Jeff
Jeff said:
"RDUB is such a con man that he would probably figure out a way to get satan to charge for the sleigh rides and give RDUB the money."
Don and Ange said:
R-dub has a sleigh, it's called a Motor Home. He cons people into paying for it and the diesel fuel that powers it, but they don't get to ride in it. They get to ride in their own sleighs known as oil puking junkers, because that is all they can afford after paying for R-dub's sleigh. And when he comes to town there is no Jolly laugh, handing out presents to kids and the only jingling you will hear is the bs students putting their two mites into the offering plate. The only other sound you'll hear is the cracking of a whip, his elf's crying and people scrambling to make sure everything is just right. Yes sir, Yes sir three bags full, God bless you sir, and you'll know that the grinch is in town.
Ha, ha. ROFLOL. I like this whole sleigh topic. I might start a thread with it. Ha, ha, ha. I'm giggling right now. RDUB has the biggest sleigh of all. His RV. Ha, ha. ha, ha. LOL.
That was real good Don and Ange. That is the best laugh I've had in a while.
Jeff
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!!!!! Now I'm coughing. I just read the rest of it after I posted my last message. Boy was that funny. That may have been the funniest post I've ever read. Don and Ange, that one was great. Cracking his whip. Ha, ha, ha, ha!!!!! LOL. ROFLOL.
Too funny.
Jeff
I decided not to finish my thought, and I still will not.
Ok great. And?
Jeff
Thanks Jeff, we are glad we could brighten your day.
And you did.
Jeff
Anonymous takes his ball and leaves saying...
"I decided not to finish my thought, and I still will not."
He's a poet.
And doesn't know it.
I decided you are a nerd.
And still think u are.
One error of NTCC is that of infallibility. I attended a strange service the other night- at a friend's request. They had a "rabbi" and ministerial hierarchy. They had a unique language. They had unique dances, doctrines. I observed they were "schismatic" and created an us v. them mentality. They boldly proclaimed they were the hope of the NW. Is it any wonder why the devil keeps using the same ploys on the Church? because they still work.
God never set up one infallibile POPE anywhere. Jesus is the Head of the Church. People who refuse to search the scriptures for themselves and leave it someone else to interpret to them- open themselves to the spirit of error. One defense against the spirit of error is humility and repenting of PRIDE. NTCC forgot this. The leadership long ago became abusive. Folks, you should do a serious study of CULTS. Study Jim Jones. Study the life of John A. Dowie.
God never put salvation in any man but the one MAN, Christ Jesus. Once a person is deceived by the spirit of pride, several other demons come in. The spirit of error is evidence by the way a person deals with people. No mercy? No grace? No kindness? Bad fruit? No gifts no graces? A bunch of mindless zombies? I could say so much more- but you all are doing quite well without my occasional sporadic diatribes...
Props, Kudos to Jeff, Don & Angie et al., oh even Ms Pelfrey who laid a good foundation for this here years gone by. You can do nothing against the truth but for the truth ultimately.
I forgot to say- there's a whole lot of LIFE outside NTCC.. oh yeah!
In the Name of The Lord
Well, it is "DD" these days. I remember you. You are the one that started the restrictions of dating. Others were also involved, but you were the one that caused it to be changed.
That year there was 8-10 that got hitched and the hitching is still good except for 2 maybe 3.
A Friend From 2170....
I started or caused the restrictions of dating? Oops! sorry! We have learned a lot since those old days. God is for me. I am for God. No man can hurt me now. God is my Defense, Shield, Savior, Teacher. There is so much LIFE in the body of Jesus Christ. The way up is the way down. Lose to gain, become a fool to become wise. How I wished I made friends in the NTCC but it was a business not a family, not a body. The trumpet gave an uncertain sound- no one was able to prepare himself to battle.
Anonymous said...
"I remember you. You are the one that started the restrictions of dating."
Woah! I'm blowin' the whistle on that one!
Not so fast, Anonymous! You are just a clone of Davis, repeating his jargon, saying that some individuals STARTED a bunch of rules! You need only to look at the one you look up to to find the one who STARTED all those rules. Davis starts them and blames individuals for the laws/ restrictions on certain inalienable rights granted to every one by our Creator.
Freedom of speech, freedom to lead about a wife, a sister, freedom to worship as you see fit (i.e. how many songs your congregation can sing, etc.) these are stripped away at his own pleasure. You want to dig up someone's past and discredit them? Why not dig up some of your own leaders' past histories, and family histories, and mistakes? Is that the worst dirt you can find on him? What? He asked a church member to go on a date, or something? so RW decided to make every person who passed through his school feel the punishment of his wrath for generations? And it's all Mr. Durek's fault, huh? Keep drinkin' that Kool-Aid.
I am not going into details. They were, as us students. I still would like to consider him a friend. And we all have changed since 2170.
That's great. I hope you two are friends, too. Sorry to jump in there, but I just think friends should not blame friends for something RW Davis did. My fault, though.
We were told that the reason we had to ask permission to say more than "God bless you, Ma'am" (and only in church service could you even say "God bless you Ma'am") was because ONE person asked a lady who had just come to church for her first time out on a date. I don't think this happened as far back as 2170 Forrest Ave., because I seem to remember another minister who went through school before me (but I doubt it was as far back as Forrest Ave.) saying that there were no such restrictions. You could freely talk to women without permission. Can anyone verify this? Does anyone know how long this was a rule in NTCC? That you couldn't just walk up to a sister and say, "Hi Mary! How are you doing?"
Correction: The one who related the event that caused the rule to come into place, said that the gentleman asked the woman to MARRY HIM!
The white shirt and tie rule was made apparently because someone wore an orange tie with a shirt that didn't match. I guess that is why we had to look like Mormons every single church service.
The 2 brother (look like a couple of homos on a date) fellowship rule was apparently because a bunch of brothers went out to eat (I think at Denny's) and started mouthing off and someone cracked a ketchup bottle over one of their heads.
Rev. Gesang claimed that he is to blame for a lot of the rules.
But as Davis says, you can't legislate righteousness.
"Can anyone verify this? Does anyone know how long this was a rule in NTCC?"
It was a rule by the time I arrived at 2170 Forest Ave in June 1980. DD was married by then, and taught several of my classes (as did his wife).
"The white shirt and tie rule was made apparently because someone wore an orange tie with a shirt that didn't match."
I think RW said it was Joe Rose. Because of that stupid unfunded mandate, I had to go out and spend money I didn't have to spare on new shirts.
Let me make it clear by my "friends" statement.
I am not going to tell all I know and trash him out... but in reality, I am not his real friend.
Not he who slanders my Pastor, my church group, who thinks I am in a cult, who blast holiness, no I really am not his friend, but I am not going to tell what I have knowledge of either.... just for the record.
Still a company man
Company man is correct. I am not writing any more either. And I maybe the last of the NTCC reader/writers
A Company Man 2
Thanks for the answer, Vic. Do you know if the rule was suspended at some point? because I am pretty sure that Rev. Malsingh told me that they didn't have that rule when he went through.
Anonymous NTCC enthusiast said first ...
I still would like to consider him a friend.
Kris said...
This was written in an endearing and sincere way.
Then apparently the schizophrenic same Anonymous posted...
"but in reality, I am not his real friend."
Kris said...
This apparently is an NTCCer. Let's examine his personality as representative of his group.
I was working on a garage door one day. My customer had 2 little daughters. The one younger daughter was playing in a toy car. The older girl came into the garage and gave a little smile and a little fake laugh, and tried to make a deal with the younger sister that they could both sit together in the car, but the younger sister didn't want to play with her older sister. The older one then made another smile and a fake sounding laugh and leaned over to her and said, "I'm not really your friend." It was kind of evil sounding. Much like this Anonymous ntccer, her fake show of friendliness was disturbing.
I am so sick of the fake friendliness of some religious people. I was right about you to begin with, Anonymous. You're no friend. Who cares if you don't post here anymore? What insight did you bring to the table anyways?
Anonymous said...
"And I maybe the last of the NTCC reader/writers"
Kris said...
Don't bank on it. You weren't the first, and I don't think you will be the last.
A Company Man 2 said:
"Company man is correct. I am not writing any more either. And I maybe the last of the NTCC reader/writers
Don and Ange said:
Thank you for gracing us with your presence. I wouldn't be surprised it you were not only the last of the NTCC reader/writers because so many people are leaving your cult you might be one of the few members left.
Double-D is probably still one of the best friends you have because he is willing to tell you the truth. The ntcc Leaders will lie to you because that's what they do. We talk bad about your pastor because he has shown himself to be an abuser of his office and in using his position to tear people down in public humiliation making himself nothing more than an enemy of the faith.
We are so sad that you are not writing any more. We were checking the blog every 30 seconds in hopes that you might have more wisdom to bestow upon us. That's okay, I'm sure you might have a faithful group of 3 or 4 cult members who will still listen to you. If you ever decide to leave your cult we will be here to congratulate you on your escape and we will be a friend and a brother after the pastor you love so much jacks you up and runs you off like he has so many others.
We also will be a friend to folks still in the ntcc. We will listen and commiserate, some of us will pray for you and others will try to get you to see how blind you are. In the end our goal is to help people realize that life is much better when you follow God instead of man. Life outside of the ntcc is 100 times better than what it was on the inside and the taste of freedom will help you realize that we were never intended to be controlled and manipulated.
Don and Ange
"Vic. Do you know if the rule was suspended at some point?"
I know it wasn't suspended before I left St. Louis in September of 1983. However, it should also be noted that the "dating rules" for which DD is allegedly responsible, never did apply to Mike and Tanya, who had their own secret arrangement thanks to RW the nepotist.
"That’s why MC Kekel and Grant went to a real college"
MCK has mentioned about different computer classes that he has taken or certifications that he once had, but can anyone verify if he attended a secular college in order to get something like an Associates or Bachelors in IT? He was probably taking classes all the while condemning them for others that aren't as spiritual or able to withstand worldly ambition like he is.
The company man wrote...
Not he who slanders my Pastor, my church group, who thinks I am in a cult, who blast holiness, no I really am not his friend, but I am not going to tell what I have knowledge of either.... just for the record.
Still a company man.
Company man is correct. I am not writing any more either. And I maybe the last of the NTCC reader/writers
A Company Man 2
Jeff said...
There you have it people. That is what NTCC pastors have been reduced to. Company men. What an idiot. So you going to take your toys and play somewhere else? Good. The game was a lot more fun without you.
This is someone who is absolutely not "Jesus" man because he is a company man. With this kind of information out there, I don't know why anyone would follow someone like this?
Jeff
The company man wrote...
Not he who slanders my Pastor, my church group, who thinks I am in a cult, who blast holiness, no I really am not his friend, but I am not going to tell what I have knowledge of either.... just for the record.
Still a company man.
Company man is correct. I am not writing any more either. And I maybe the last of the NTCC reader/writers
A Company Man 2
Jeff said...
There you have it people. That is what NTCC pastors have been reduced to. Company men. What an idiot. So you going to take your toys and play somewhere else? Good. The game was a lot more fun without you.
This is someone who is absolutely not "Jesus" man because he is a company man. With this kind of information out there, I don't know why anyone would follow someone like this?
Jeff
Being a "company man" sounds like someone that's in a union or that has worked in or for one business all of his life. Will they give you a pension? Do you have any benefits like medical, dental or life insurance? Do you get any incentive when you retire? Will they cover you under any group insurance plan when you are with the company? The answer to all of these is NO. That doesn't sound like any company that I'd want to stick around.
"Company Man" - a man who always sides with his employers. example: Bob's a company man—he'll always take management's side.
A male worker more loyal to management than to his fellow workers; also, one who informs on fellow employees. For example, He'll never join in a strike; he's a company man. Dating from the 1920s, a period of considerable labor unrest, this term uses company in the sense of "a business concern" and was often applied as a criticism by supporters of labor unions.
Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/idioms/company+man
Also check the following:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/company+man
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cfxnxY619g
Anonymous wrote...
A male worker more loyal to management than to his fellow workers; also, one who informs on fellow employees. For example, He'll never join in a strike; he's a company man.
Jeff said...
Exactly!!! A suck up, cheese eating, yes man who can in no way be loyal to God. You hit the nail on the head. And that is the NTCC and that is what the NTCC has always been all about.
Jeff
Anonymous wrote...
Will they give you a pension? Do you have any benefits like medical, dental or life insurance? Do you get any incentive when you retire? Will they cover you under any group insurance plan when you are with the company? The answer to all of these is NO.
Jeff said...
Unless it is Kekel which it may very well be. It's a long shot but you never know.
Jeff
"Keep your story right, don't mix up the two events. Pastor has never stated anything about the college where Grant goes."
Did he or did he not say that he was running from God and that he would rather learn about business than learn about God?
"Keep your story right, don't mix up the two events. Pastor has never stated anything about the college where Grant goes."
Yeah, he also won't state over the pulpit 1% of what has been found out through this and other blogs. You would never have know about all of the real estate deals, homosexual pastors, treachery and broken families unless someone came forward to say something on these blogs. I guess if it doesn't come across the pulpit in NTCC then it never happened? Probably another NTCC revisionist that wants to explain away what has happened...
Anonymous said..
"Did he or did he not say that he was running from God and that he would rather learn about business than learn about God?"
I remember RW Davis saying that someone was getting a degree in computers and he was falling for the trick of the devil.
I later heard that Kekel had gotten a degree in IT or computer science. I am pretty sure it was IT.
I verified this with Olson and also the land deal, and he didn't deny that either one of them was true.
So I guess Davis said something negative about Grant getting an education, so they still teach that you are running from God if you go to college. This seems like their way to keep people stuck in neutral. We don't know what they think about anything. On the one hand, Kekel the President of the Seminary has gone to college and so has his son now. Davis has a degree in psychology (why do you need that to preach the Gospel?) but you are Jonah if you do it.
"Davis has a degree in psychology..."
No, Davis SAYS he has a degree in psychology. Apparently no one but him has seen the diploma, though.
Anonymous said...
"And I maybe the last of the NTCC reader/writers"
Now that's funny!
Vic said..."No, Davis SAYS he has a degree in psychology."
Right, just because you put a bunch of letters by your name doesn't mean that you have the credentials for it. It's like someone saying that they have a doctorate in a field, but where is the thesis and doctoral dissertation? Which seminary was this in or is this one of these honorary degrees that get passed on to people because of who they know in a denomination?
"And I maybe the last of the NTCC reader/writers"
TOOO FUNNY! So does this mean that NTCC is closing it's doors? Most likely not. This must mean that Kekel/Davis has issued another "there's the door" warning to all who are caught canvassing the blogs. Silly rabbit. The only way you can keep people off this blog is to poke out their eyes and cut off their hands. Maybe you are all about to move out to Washington and live on the compound like they did in Waco. Either way, there would have to be some drastic measures taken to keep NTCCer's off this and other blogs.
It is noted and known that NTCC leadership engaged in gossip, lies about me upon leaving NTCC as they do others.... Why did they feel the need to demean me in sight of all those that remained? Why is there a persistent need in NTCC to rule by intimidation and FEAR. These things are not signs of holiness. I cannot argue the WORD with those who do not understand nor reverence it. The fear of man brings a snare!
Awake while there is time! Depart ye from NTCC!
he would have to be a pastor first before he could be slandered. he does not take care of his sheep. He actually fleeces them,bashes them,treats most way below his level. A true pastor would be caring for his flock. He is more out what the flock can do for him. shine his shoes,mow his lawn,buy him watches,suits,ect..
ntcc holiness is NOT BIBLICAL TRUTH! They are FALSE TEACHERS! learn your bible and you will know that.
BTW, nothing I ever did caused a change in the dating policies- I'm sure I would have remembered. Too bad for my "friend at 2170F". But I have observed all the violations of "touch not mine anointed". That verse was speaking of Israel. The NT equivalence would be "God's people" the born-again ones, all who are "saved". So therefore, the gossip you all entertained to destroy my reputation - was a real SIN! Did anyone apologize for the gossip to me/about me? No!
Did anyone ever try to restore ME? NO! The Bible says you SPIRITUAL ones have to! (I speak this to your shame).
There is a saying, "It's what you learn AFTER you 'know-it-all' that counts!" I would revise that to be "It's what you learn AFTER you leave NTCC that counts". NTCC's teachings leave a void and vacuum that cannot be hidden by loud, boisterous, cold, heartless, controlling, conniving, so-called "preaching".
No friend would betray a trust. Friends do not destroy friends. If Jesus is my Friend why are you my enemy? Love covers and washes away sins, never goes beyond the BLOOD line of Jesus. Never never never. But NTCC has done it to "slime" people. And think ye not that they will turn on you? Ah yes, they shall! If ye bite and devour each other take heed that YE be not consumed of EACH OTHER. YEA!
Sigamo Si - pass him on by!
double-D said, Did anyone ever try to restore ME? NO! The Bible says you SPIRITUAL ones have to! (I speak this to your shame).
Does leadership in ntcc try to restore anyone? I'm not sure, but nobody made any attempt to find out why I left, not a phone call, nuthin. This seemed to be a sign how much they really cared.
See, unions keep people from working. I can do the job just as good, but cheaper because I control my spending. Most union people do not. There for I am a Company Man Also.
Volente
Anonymous said:
"I'm not sure, but nobody made any attempt to find out why I left, not a phone call, nuthin. This seemed to be a sign how much they really cared."
Don and Ange said:
The ntcc has to treat you as a reprobate so they can sleep well at night. When you leave they say you made a decision. You are free to make decisions like that, you are just not free to make any decisions that govern your life while you are in. "As long as you live under our roof, you will follow our rules". If they came after you they would have to listen to the reasons for your departure, and then they would have to over-ride conviction because in just about every instance they are dead wrong.
If they let you go, they can just reason within themselves that you left because you wanted sin, and they are more righteous than you are because they are going to hold out till the end. After all, it is a straight and narrow path isn't it? Few will find it. They will say that you have chosen the broad path that leads to destruction, and they will convince themselves that they are on the narrow path. Does the narrow path allow them to not restore a brother or sister that has fallen? I'm using their tactics against them. Many people that are leaving now have not sinned they just are tired of living in communistic style rule.
People that come out of that group take years to recover from the severe brainwashing that took place on the inside. I've talked to former members of this destructive cult that fight inward battles about trivial things years after departing. The best thing you can do is to separate the stupid stuff from the stuff that makes sense and do the opposite. For example, if they taught you to get a vasectomy, then go out and get a vasectomy reversal. If they taught you not to go to secular college, go out and get a degree. If they taught you that you can not be saved if you have facial hair, read your bible and grow a beard 4 feet long if you want. If it sounds ridiculously stupid, it probably is.
Step outside your cult experience and look at how stupid this bunch of hypocrites looks to the outside world and do the opposite. I'm not talking about going against personal conviction in your own personal walk, but just look at the ntcc for what it really is: stupid. I'm not saying that the majority of the people are stupid, because we all were in that boat. We all fell for the same deception. I will say that I was very stupid staying with them as long as I did, knowing what I know now. They could have told us that it was a bad testimony have a pen with blue ink and we would have obeyed. They could have told us that we all were to wear girdles of camelskin and eat locust and honey on the 1st day of each month and we probably would have done it. We look at the rules after we have departed and we clearly realize that these rules and policies are not found in the bible. Do you think there is a reason for that? If they are going to add to or take away from God's word, they might as well flush the whole bible down the toilet because they are just playing church. R-dub says you make the rules. How asinine is that? Double-d made the dating rule? I doubt it very seriously. These rules were put in place to keep you in your place.
Don and Ange
DD said,
"Love covers and washes away sins, never goes beyond the BLOOD line of Jesus. Never never never. But NTCC has done it to "slime" people. And think ye not that they will turn on you?"
preach it!
"Does leadership in ntcc try to restore anyone?"
It appears not, although I did hear that RW searched for Rick Blumenthal in St. Louis after he blew out. But Rick was a producer; your garden variety struggling NTCC pastor is routinely discarded. One of the more shocking aspects of leaving for me was the realization that RW wasn't the least bit interested in even discussing it. He didn't even ask why! It was like he just reached out and flushed the toilet on sixteen years of faithful servitude. After seeing his attitude, all questions about leaving vanished in an instant, and I was thrilled to be out from under his evil thumb.
"...I control my spending. Most union people do not."
How would you know about the spending habits of "most union people?" Oh, I know--you're in NTCC, so you just stereotype them. Maybe you're like RW, who can just read people like a book and know the innermost motives of their hearts.
Maybe you need to control the inflated opinion you have of yourself.
Volente said..."See, unions keep people from working. I can do the job just as good, but cheaper because I control my spending. Most union people do not. There for I am a Company Man Also."
Volente we're not talking about your small business versus a union, but the attitude that it takes to be called that - Company Man. Sure unions like the UAW has done its share to hurt the domestic auto industry and go talk to your favorite talking head pundits about. There was a time where unions were needed to ensure fair wages, work conditions, etc. When an NTCC says "I'm a Company Man" what they are in essence saying is that I put the dictates, mandates and opinions of the leadership of this organization over everything else in my life. This they will do to their detriment and folly as they blindly follow out of a perverted sense of loyalty.
When an NTCCer says "I'm a Company Man"
Here are some quotes from the Grinch [RWD]...hahaha
"That's what it's all about, isn't it? That's what it's always been *about*. Gifts, gifts... gifts, gifts, gifts, gifts, gifts. You wanna know what happens to your gifts? They all come to me[RWD]..."
"The avarice never ends! "I want golf clubs. I want diamonds...."
Christmas carolers singing:
The Twelve Days of Christmas
On the first day of Christmas,
My true love gave to [RWD]:
A partridge in a pear tree.
On the second day of Christmas,
My true love gave to [RWD]:
Two turtle doves,
and a partridge in a pear tree.
On the third day of Christmas,
My true love gave to [RWD]:
Three french hens,
Two turtle doves,
and a partridge in a pear tree.
On the fourth day of Christmas,
My true love gave to [RWD]:
Four calling birds,
Three french hens,
Two turtle doves,
and a partridge in a pear tree.
On the fifth day of Christmas,
My true love gave to [RWD]:
Five golden rings!
Four calling birds,
Three french hens,
Two turtle doves,
and a partridge in a pear tree.
On the sixth day of Christmas,
My true love gave to [RWD]:
Six geese a-laying,
Five golden rings!
Four calling birds,
Three french hens,
Two turtle doves,
and a partridge in a pear tree.
On the seventh day of Christmas,
My true love gave to [RWD]:
Seven swans a-swimming,
Six geese a-laying,
Five golden rings!
Four calling birds,
Three french hens,
Two turtle doves,
and a partridge in a pear tree.
On the eighth day of Christmas,
My true love gave to [RWD]:
Eight maids a-milking,
Seven swans a-swimming,
Six geese a-laying,
Five golden rings!
Four calling birds,
Three french hens,
Two turtle doves,
and a partridge in a pear tree.
On the ninth day of Christmas,
My true love gave to [RWD]:
Nine ladies dancing,
Eight maids a-milking,
Seven swans a-swimming,
Six geese a-laying,
Five golden rings!
Four calling birds,
Three french hens,
Two turtle doves,
and a partridge in a pear tree.
On the tenth day of Christmas,
My true love gave to [RWD]:
Ten lords a-leaping,
Nine ladies dancing,
Eight maids a-milking,
Seven swans a-swimming,
Six geese a-laying,
Five golden rings!
Four calling birds,
Three french hens,
Two turtle doves,
and a partridge in a pear tree.
On the eleventh day of Christmas,
My true love gave to [RWD]:
Eleven pipers piping,
Ten lords a-leaping,
Nine ladies dancing,
Eight maids a-milking,
Seven swans a-swimming,
Six geese a-laying,
Five golden rings!
Four calling birds,
Three french hens,
Two turtle doves,
and a partridge in a pear tree.
On the twelfth day of Christmas,
My true love gave to [RWD]:
Twelve drummers drumming,
Eleven pipers piping,
Ten lords a-leaping,
Nine ladies dancing,
Eight maids a-milking,
Seven swans a-swimming,
Six geese a-laying,
Five golden rings!
Four calling birds,
Three french hens,
Two turtle doves,
and a partridge in a pear tree.
Yeah, RWD stole your kids Christmas gifts because they used to preach against Christmas trees until GK came around. Now it's OK to have that pagan altar in your living room. Then you were too strapped for cash to be able get them anything good for Christmas or you had to fake a Christmas by getting clothes second hand or join with someone else to be able to share a meal together. God forbid you spend it with your "sinner family" or a friend outside of NTCC...
This blog IS like the worker's union for the COMPANY of NTCC to monitor and curb the owners' abuses of the little people. It's like the Ronald Reagan to Mr. Gorbachev (Davis) telling him to "TEAR DOWN THIS (courting) WALL!" This blog is like Galatians ch.2 to all NTCC ministers who follow Davis in fear. Paul rebuked Peter for giving in to pressures from the judaizers. The real problem was the judaizers, but Peter was giving in to them saying that the gentiles had to follow the law of Moses. NTCC ministers need to stand up for what is right according to the BIBLE and quit living in fear of a man!
Cream of the Crop said,
On the twelfth day of Christmas,
My true love gave to [RWD]:
Twelve drummers drumming,
Eleven pipers piping,
Ten lords a-leaping,
Nine ladies dancing,
Eight maids a-milking,
Seven swans a-swimming,
Six geese a-laying,
Five golden rings!
Four calling birds,
Three french hens,
Two turtle doves,
and a partridge in a pear tree.
Don and Ange think the ntcc (per)version of this song should go something like this:
On the twelfth day of Christmas,
My true love gave to [rwd]
Twelve gum-chewers gumming
coz a Fu11-time ministry's coming
coz 10 tithe-payers are tithing
while 9 sisters are jumping to be the
8 unpaid-maids a-cleaning tk's mansion and
7 sons a-giving to be the
6 brothers paying for rw's
5 pinky rings
4 couples on the wall
3 recycled wives
2 dead German Shepherds, and
1 under-age-bride-to-be
Add your own...
Don and Ange
Double D said, "One defense against the spirit of error is humility and repenting of PRIDE. NTCC forgot this."
The Pharisees of Jesus' day thought they were right too, and there is no shortage of the same types today. There's a pride in holiness and works, pride that shows in preaching and teaching, and all the while pride is spoken against. Pride has caused a blindness that has overtaken many.
The only thing we have to be proud of is that Jesus took our sins and washed us in His blood.
LD
Pastor has openly stated over the pulpit in a conference that Grant is away at college and "choosing to live a life of sin." So yes, he has talked about that. And yes, he did give an open apology a few conferences back, but it was very generic and something to the affect of "if I have offended anyone, I'm sorry" and that was it. Not much of an apology if you ask me.
"Pastor has openly stated over the pulpit in a conference that Grant is away at college and "choosing to live a life of sin.""
Has he also excoriated Grant's parents for being enablers by financing his "sinner" education? If it were anyone else, they would be encouraged to cut him off and shun him.
I bet as soon as Grant finish school, he will all of a sudden get saved and come back to Graham. RWD will receive him with open arms and give him a position next to his daddy.
grant is just another puppet on a string. he will never be his own man. granpappy and granma have him neutered just like every other ntcc male. he may think he's goin' his own way. davis may want others to think that. Regardless, the boi's whole life has been planned for him. Even tanya was just an incubator, mike a sperm donor, grant the product for r w davis to hand his empire off to an heir. Everyone else in ntcc has just been used to help davis make a bad name for himself. Wonder if the "d" in grant's middle name stands for davis???
You may notice the name kekel does not appear in the previous comment. I truly believe davis wants that name kekel to disappear so that the name of rdub can live on infinitely. I can just see mike getting caught in some sin and davis running him out of town on a rail (lots of practice) and verna convincing grant-o to drop the kekel and just be a davis...
Why did davis adopt tanya anyway? Was she his through an illicit affair? When she's pudgy she looks sooo much like rdub. Remember the WhoDat photo with rdub's face photoshopped on top of tanya's? Dead ringers. Spittin' image. If she's not rdub's, why did he adopt tanya then spend the next 40 something years screaming "Children hinder the work of gawd!" Doesn't sound like he cherishes her. Perhaps his only use for her was to later on gain an heir. Or cover-up some adulterous scandal. Or, an added bonus, be able to purchase land in the Philippines. You gotta wonder what's goin' on in that squirrely rdub brain to adopt a kid and later scream at pregnant women telling them "Gawd is going to judge you for ruining your husband's ministry." Is that how davis felt about picking up tany down in Cagayan De Oro, Philippines? If so, maybe he has only used her to get an heir and carry on the davis dynasty. Maybe that is his legacy.
Oh, btw, you can feel free to hate me all you want for writing these terrible suppositions. But just look at davis and how he conducts himself and think about who the despicable one really is... Just saying. GSYH
Jeff, you really hit the nail on the head with this post. Company men are idolaters. They will forsake Christ to please davis, kekel, and kompany every time. That's why olson lies so casually. That's why kekel fumes and foams at the mouth when he's in the pulpit. Does that look like the fruit of the Spirit? How about tom wright swindling ntcc ministers out of money or taking away their minister's license when the refuse to allow him to extort them into fixing defective ntcc rental properties that they got bamboozeled into renting. These ntcc board members think nothing of sinning against God by lying, railing, and stealing so long as they can, in the words of Kris Moore, "get a Scooby snack" from r w davis.
God said He would not share His glory with another. ntcc Company Idolaters have made a bad choice for their ga[r]wd.
I wonder if Potiphar's wife was telling the truth when she accused Joseph of raping her.
I wonder if some women lie about a man out of spite or damaged pride.
I wonder if Joseph was in prison all those years for a crime that he had committed?
Did Joseph ever rail against Potiphar for what had been done to him?
Maybe anonymous should go to ntcs to get answers to his troubled mind's questions.
Anonymous Vic Johanson said...
"Davis has a degree in psychology..."
No, Davis SAYS he has a degree in psychology. Apparently no one but him has seen the diploma, though.
All the talk about his "so called" degree? It's all a bunch of BS. (Baloney Sandwiches, of course. or Bible School, take your choice)
I had the opportunity to sit down with Mike Kekel and his wife Tanya Kekel (If Mike is the Head of the household, then she must be the NECK that turns the head. That is one subject that we went round and round and round and round on to the point of nausea. Finally I got tired of his spinning and spinning and her talking and talking and not really saying anything and just said ....
"OK! We're going round and round on this." "I can't get a direct answers out of either on of you, so let's just bottom line this.....Okay!!"
The fact of the matter is, That neither one of you know whether he has a degree or not, Right!!!
Both in unison.....RIGHT!!!
As I said before in one of my earlier posts, The meeting was SUPPOSE to be with just Mike, NOT TANYA!!!!!!! She shows up unannounced,(Oh, she did bring cookies) and literally tries to take over the conversation. Oh, and she made a big "To do" about Jeff, and some of the things that he has said about her, and the fact that (In her own words) "He's never even met me!!
Well Tanya, I've met you,and believe me when I tell you this. My thoughts, as well as what I have to say about you is FAR WORSE THAN ANYTHING JEFF COLLINS COULD EVER SAY ABOUT YOU!!! You were there for 1 reason and 1 reason only, and that was to try and sally to the rescue of you beleaguered Dad.
You are, without doubt, a true
B%^$H!!!!!!!
Anonymous Anonymous said...
See, unions keep people from working. I can do the job just as good, but cheaper because I control my spending. Most union people do not. There for I am a Company Man Also.
Volente
You don't know much about Unions, Do you? I'll trust a Union any day of the week, (for the most part) than I will a "Company Man" who doesn't give a Rat's Tu-Tu about whether I have a job, or not. Unions aren't perfect. And you know why? Because they are made up of people, who are imperfect. Do you think "Corporate America" cares about you? All they care about are their Stock Holders, and their profit margin. If they had their way you would work for peanuts. Just like the people who work for R'Dub. I've heard about some of HIS working conditions.
Would you like to address this?
I do know. We were locked in to making 21 parts a day, we had 18 made by lunch, so we could loaf the rest of the day. They told me that the more we made, the more they would require. I still did my work, sent it down the roller belt, so they had to work. They then moved me to another place, wonder why? I put micro arms on micro switches. Ran out of switches, the material handler was off, so they said no work for you. At break I went and moved the parts, they were just across the room. I got a letter and 2 verbal chewings for working outside my job assingment.... so yes I know.
Volente
Also I have not worked for Pastor, so I have no comment to make.
Volente
Has what you are saying ever happened? Probably. So that makes all Unions the same? Go ahead and address what I said about Corporate America. You want to talk about corrupt? Let's talk about Corporate America.
Volente,
Have you been attending the new version of NTCC 2.0? Last I remember it was a union-friendly NTCC.
A minister was explaining to me that RW davi
s spoke in a positive way about people working for the unions. Also I tried taking a stand against unions once and the pastor of that church where I was a helper warned me not to let the people think my church org shared my views. And what's so crazy about it is I was telling him that I told the union leader that it was against my religious belief to sign their contract because it said "I will pledge my most sacred devotion" to their stupid carpenter's union. Pastor Malsingh tried to tell me not to say "it is against my religious beliefs" because he didn't want NTCC's name involved in anything negative being said about the union. Whatever Rev. Davis said, I guess ministers thought unions were ok now after he said it. Malsingh tried telling me to say, it was my PERSONAL belief instead of my RELIGIOUS belief. Sorry Sookdeo, but I will say it's my religious belief if I want to because I have freedom of religion AND freedom of speech, and you couldn't change that no matter how much of a COMPANY (or union) man you are, because I am neither, but a JESUS MAN I AM!
Volt, you remind me of Rev. McDonald still trying desperately to hang on to the old NTCC. he was trying to convince me that Davis was still against the internet when Mr. Davis had written a letter in the Trumpet letting us know the internet was just alright with him now. See, Volt, my friend, you have to look at the NTCC AS A COMPANY, RIGHT? well, just think of all the tithes they can bring in from union workers making 20 or 30 dollars an hour? You don't expect the COMPANY to give up all thaose profits do you? So much for standing for principles, right? So don't be alarmed if you get corrected by your "company man" pastor the next time you put down unions in front of him and his faithful tithe-paying congregants. Give it a shot and let us know what happens. It's about the money. They are union men just as much as they are company men. Whether they are God men is highly disputed. So just understand that to be a COMPANY MAN now in NTCC you should be a union man, too. Got it?
anon said "Did Joseph ever rail against Potiphar for what had been done to him?"
Anon, that is soooooooooooo weak!!
As far as being a "Union Man" or a "Company Man", I resent even the very idea of a so called "Church" being thought of as a "Corporation" or a "Company".
I'm also surprised that R'Dub would have ANYTHING good to say about Unions, for that matter. I guess it makes sense though, If you think about it from a perspective of money, which seems to be the only language that he understands at the end of the day.
There are good things to be said about Unions, and there are bad things to be said. But I stand behind what I said earlier that I would come much closer trusting the Unions than I would "Corporate America" and I have stories of having gone through contract negotiations dealing with scoundrels that would sell their own Mothers into Prostitution before they would do anything for you in a positive way.
Union Man gets promoted because of seniority.
Company Man sucks up to boss and gets promoted.
Union Man files grievance against individuals so his or her voice can be heard.
Company Man stays silent because he does not want to rock the boat.
Union Man pays union dues and is expected to strike for better working conditions, benefits, pay, etc.
Company Man has no choice, no voice, no dues and can be fired or laid off easily when he has outlived his usefulness.
I personally don't care for unions and have no use for company men. Where I work there are company men that always have their noses in other peoples business if they are not in the boss's butt. What is great about this country is that you can be your own boss if you want to or you can choose a job or an employer that doesn't require you to kiss their butt all the time.
I like what Don and Ange just said about company men. The description was right on. Think about it people. That is the NTCC. An organization full of company men.
Jeff
MSNBC has hired a documentary team to do a series on groups like ntcc.
They have asked for participants, especially those who have left the group within the last year, to share their experience.
Please consider contacting them at
CLPdocumentry@gmail.com
We recommend including "ntcc" and your intials or "anon" in the subject line of your correspondence. Thanks.
Click name for more info.
Volente, you're talking about something that happened to you at your job. It doesn't sound like it had anything to do with the union, but the people you worked for. I know plenty of people who work in the union under VERY different conditions than the ones you described. It sounds like your employers were pretty trashy. I wonder why someone would make the choice to work for trash?
Thank you anonymous , your comments bear repeating.
I wonder if Potiphar's wife was telling the truth when she accused Joseph of raping her.
I wonder if some women lie about a man out of spite or damaged pride.
I wonder if Joseph was in prison all those years for a crime that he had committed?
Did Joseph EVER rail against Potiphar for what had been done to him?
(It's obvious Joseph had a different spirit)
Test question.
Who has demonstrated more of a Christ-like spirit like Joseph
#1 The Company Men
#2 The Indomitable Railers
(Final score to be revealed at the last trump)
1Cor 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to KEEP COMPANY, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a RAILER, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
M Riley,
You should probably study the scriptures and test ALL things and hold to that which is GOOD...
Obviously your just grabbing onto Ntcc jargon
Lets look at what "railer" really means:
rail
2 /reɪl/ Show Spelled[reyl] Show IPA
–verb (used without object)
1.
to utter bitter complaint or vehement denunciation (often followed by at or against ): to rail at fate.
I am sure you would agree that this definition is as close as you can get to an ntcc preacher, in fact that is what they do for work, they rail on everyone and every other christian who does not hold to their peculiar belief system
Agreed fellow exers?
TB
Riley, learn to think for yourself and stop being such a follower, come out from among them, be ye separate and set apart!
Don't follow in their pernicious ways, why sacrifice eternity for a life of thievery and treachery like Davis, Ohlson and Kekel, these men probably at one time felt they were sincere believers but somewhere along the line they chose to turn and worship mammon, I have seen it thousands of times, they chose to take advantage of God's innocent sheep and use them for gain, and look how they have ravaged the flock of God....can you not see? follow the blind and you to will end up in the DITCH!!
TB
Riley said "RAILER, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat."
Hey, Riley! From your own post will I judge you. Based on what you said in your post, you'd better never sit at a table with them bunch of crooks again, because that's exactly what they are and more!!!!!
Umm, Bye! Bye!
"Test question.
Who has demonstrated more of a Christ-like spirit like Joseph
#1 The Company Men
#2 The Indomitable Railers"
Well, the "Railers" as you erroneously term us, are following in the great tradition Jesus set forth for us in his dealings with NTCC's ancient counterparts, the Pharisees. We feel it's incumbent on us to follow Jesus' example, and to show the same spirit towards vipers and hypocrites that he did. If we're railers, Jesus was a bigger one. And rather than a Christ-like spirit, the "Company Men" you extol merely continue the Pharisaical tradition of legalistic condemnation and self righteousness.
You and your fellow whited sepulchres might want to switch sides.
TB said...
I am sure you would agree that this definition is as close as you can get to an ntcc preacher, in fact that is what they do for work, they rail on everyone and every other christian who does not hold to their peculiar belief system
Agreed fellow exers?
Jeff said...
You better believe it. NTCC preachers have always railed on every church other than the NTCC since the beginning. They've railed on countless people who've left their church. So now the shoe is on the other foot and guys like Riley don't like it and they are too hypocritical to admit that his organization has been doing the same thing for years. I've never tried to deny it. This is pay back and it's a forum used to open the eyes of people who've been duped by the NTCC leadership for decades.
Jeff
TB said:
I am sure you would agree that this definition is as close as you can get to an ntcc preacher, in fact that is what they do for work, they rail on everyone and every other christian who does not hold to their peculiar belief system
Fred says:
Nope. I don't agree.
TB writes as if he has heard and listened to every message preached by every NTCC preacher throughout the history of NTCC.
TB revealed he is the brother of an NTCC minister, yet has never been an NTCC minister. TB claims to be a minister of religion in some other church system.
TB, Read this verse carefully and you would do well to prayerfully study it--- It may apply to you, if you will receive it:
Jud 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
Jud 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
Jud 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
Jud 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
Just for the record, I know you Collins-ites will twist this scripture also and try to redefine NTCC as the bad guy in this one also. You will impress no one by doing so.
Did Joseph EVER rail against Potiphar for what had been done to him?
so it is ok to rail against the church of christ, upc, or preboloopians?
The e-mail address in the ntcc on MSNBC comment doesn't work.
It should be:
CLPdocumentary@gmail.com
Just a thought for all of ya'll... heard this from Francis Chan (look him up on you tube)He was talking about Exo-Jesus and Iso-Jesus. Exo-Jesus means you read the bible and say what does this mean. Iso-Jesus means you start with an idea and then pull scriptures to study or support the idea. He was talking about JW's and Mormons and how he had had encounters with both where he said if you sat down alone with no outside force or teaching and just read the bible would you really come up with your doctrine. Then he challenged his church on the same point... If we were on an island alone with just a bible would we come up with the same things we believe today. So, just a challenge to you all. B/c we all can go back and forth for days/months/years about doctrine and NTCC and this church group and that church group but, in the end is it worth it? I mean really? I challenge everyone Exers and NTCC members alike... go read your bibles and try to get the voice of others out of your head and just listen to the voice of the Holy Spirit. If you want to hear Francis Chan's whole message it's on You Tube it's the one titled "Is this really church."
And in this same thought...... it seems all NTCC does is takes "key" scriptures that support their ideals and ways and repeat them over and over again from the pulpit and since all the preachers have been to Bible School and heard the same phrases and scriptures over and over again that is all they do from the pulpit... don't get me wrong I have heard some God honest words of truth from some preachers and I believe that there are some great people in this organization who's hearts are genuine towards God and his word but, when you have had things repeated and repeated to you, then you will believe them as truths. And when you do pick up that Bible to read it you will hear the voice of those who have repeated and repeated so, seriously pray and read and ask the Holy Spirit to show you.... get the voice of men and I dare say the devil out of your head.
Hope some of you really take this to heart...
LC
Anonymous Said:
"And I maybe the last of the NTCC reader/writers"
Don and Ange Said:
"Not while Riley still has a pulse"
Fred said:
"Just for the record, I know you Collins-ites will twist this scripture also and try to redefine NTCC as the bad guy in this one also. You will impress no one by doing so."
Don and Ange said:
Thanks, you can call us all Collins-ites if you wish. That's actually a compliment. Jeff is a stand-up guy. TB's pretty cool also. Jeff I know, TB I know but who are you, Fred? Flinstone perhaps? Where's Barney and Dino.
We have heard many ministers in the ntcc preach and it's all pretty much the same. They do all try to imitate rwd and they rail on just about anyone or any group they feel like whenever they please. Do you want a list by name of each minister that rides a hobby horse in the ntcc? I can name them and instances where they have railed against others.
TB has a right to speak out against this group just as much as we do. In case you haven't realized this yet, we are no longer controlled by the rules and policies of the ntcc. They have no jurisdiction over any of us and we can say anything we want about them. The reason we exercise this freedom is because they exercised their unbridled belligerence towards us without any caution of who they might hurt or destroy. We therefore have no reservation about expressing our beliefs and we really don't care if people whine and cry like little girls because they can't make us play their game. So please don't try to rebuke folks for exposing the ntcc. That's what we do here.
Thanks for sharing Fred.
Don and Ange
Fred,
You need to learn to take the scriptures and make sense of them, anyone can grab a few verses and say "this is you" it is a weak argument and really does not even make sense
explain yourself better, don't just use scripture as a pretext. What is the context of your passage? Who is Jude addressing? Does it actually apply, apart from personal bias to the situation your claiming? Come on, even though your in ntcc and not educated in the Bible, you have a mind and can use it. Purchase a book or two on hermeneutics(the study of the interpretation of scripture) and learn to think for yourself apart from your task masters
TB
Fred,
I took a closer look at the scriptures you posted and would like to take a quick look at them, lets do that together...
Jud 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
Jud 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
Jud 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
Jud 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
Ok, lets see...In verse sixteen we notice that this person/people has a motivation of being admired by others so they will be given position. How would that apply to me? perhaps you have "preached" in a manner in which you wanted to be noticed by your leadership? It's ok, don't feel condemned, there are other attributes that you would need to have to qualify.
Vs. 18, Seeing as your applying these verses specifically to me, can you be straight forward in announcing what my "ungodly lusts" are??
Vs 19- We see that one of the distinguishing characteristics is that they separate themselves from other true Christians....hmmmmmm....sound familiar.
And finally, the dead give away- "having not the spirit" RWD DEFINED!! perfect!!! We know that RWD cannot have the spirit of God, how do we know??? because he exhibits the utmost in pride, which is the antithesis to true christianity. He "cannot remember the last time he sinned"...so he has no conviction by the HS and would thus qualify as a non-christian man.
rebuttal?
Vic said:
"Well, the "Railers" as you erroneously term us, are following in the great tradition Jesus set forth for us in his dealings with NTCC's ancient counterparts, the Pharisees."
Don and Ange said:
From Barnes notes on the bible:
railer - A reproachful man; a man of coarse, harsh, and bitter words; a man whose characteristic it was to abuse others; to vilify their character, and wound their feelings. It is needless to say how much this is contrary to the spirit of Christianity, and to the example of the Master, "who when he was reviled, reviled not again.
Who comes to mind when we read this definition of railers? Vic points out that we are following the example Jesus left for us when He dealt with the hypocrites of His day. The true railers are the pharisees of today which can be found in great number at the ntcc.
Riley, you are a railer. The leaders you worship are railers. The pot calling the kettle black is an understatement here. You are going to stand in judgement of us? How can you if No Railers are allowed in heaven? If railers are not going to heaven, than hoards of ministers from the ntcc will be the first to split hell wide open. I think that many do it in ignorance because they have been brainwashed by the chief Railer, rwd. There are many classes that are taught in the ntcs but one class that rwd teaches with his life is called Railing 101. If you hang around him enough you will get the advanced course also.
Fred said....
Just for the record, I know you Collins-ites will twist this scripture also and try to redefine NTCC as the bad guy in this one also. You will impress no one by doing so.
Jeff said...
For the record, the vast majority of us, if not ALL us Colliins-ites (as you put it) write for reasons other than to impress people. The only one who you could possibly (from any kind of logical stand point) lump in that category is Vic, however also for the record, Vic owes no one any apologies because he happens to have a better vocabulary than you or I. He does well to use it. Brush up on your dictionary.
All of us to include Vic write messages here because the NTCC is full of crooks who've tried their best for decades to keep the information contained on this blog private and out of the public eye.
Fred also wrote...
TB writes as if he has heard and listened to every message preached by every NTCC preacher throughout the history of NTCC.
Jeff said...
Now as far as TB goes. He doesn't need to have listened to every message that all NTCC preachers have ever preached. Of course no one has so that is a moot point. It doesn't matter whether or not you agree with TB. I have listed to countless NTCC preachers which were far greater in number than I even care to remember. TB knows enough about the NTCC that he didn't have to hear more than one NTCC blowhard preach his message. One would have been enough, in fact too much.
NTCC ministers constantly rail on people. Prespeloopian, Bapticostal, LDS, Catholic this and Catholic that and on and on and on. In addition to bashing virtually every Christian denomination in existence, NTCC ministers rail on people for every supposed infraction of biblical standards that they can dream up. They think they can read everyone's mind. Your lifted up with pride about this, your covetous about that, your envious about this, your bitter about that, your jealous about this, your lustful about that. Fred, you are full of it. NTCC ministers are the biggest railers I've ever met in my entire live. Who gave NTCC ministers a license to think they have a right to judge ladi dadi and everybody? The NTCS? I'd get more of a license out of a cracker jack box.
There, did I impress anyone? I hope not but I do hope I opened up the eyes of yet one more person who will leave the NTCC.
Jeff
*NTCCers* - Riley is a RWD runner boy that would do whatever it takes to win the acceptance of people that actually despise him. Riley and Fred just got schooled by a Calvary Chapel trained elder, truck driver and an organically grown Alaskan. They took them apart and went through Jude 1:16-19 and 1 Corinthians 5:11 on them. Don mentioned Barnes Notes and here is a footnote from Jude 1:16...
Having men's persons in admiration - Showing great respect to certain persons, particularly the rich and the great. The idea is, that they were not "just" in the esteem which they had for others, or that they did not appreciate them according to their real worth, but paid special attention to one class in order to promote their selfish ends.
Because of advantage - Because they hoped to derive some benefit to themselves.
I pray that they (Riley and Fred) do not face the judgment of Psalm 101:5 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10...
Incidently Fred and Riley, TB has access to his brother (current NTCC minister) and has probably been told many things through the years. I wouldn't be surprised if he was given preaching tapes or some other material (ie. Trumpets) to look through from his brother. He has just as much insight as anyone else on this blog, can be a 100x more objective than any current NTCCer, and also brings to the table foundational Bible knowledge.
Don and Ange wrote...
So please don't try to rebuke folks for exposing the ntcc. That's what we do here.
Thanks for sharing Fred.
Jeff wrote...
Duh. Ha, ha. You guys are starting to make me laugh quite often. "That is what we do here". LOL. I guess Fred hasn't figured that out yet. And so what if I am "railing" on the NTCC. I have no moral reservations with that one. The last time I checked, real Judges rail on all kinds of people. Crooks, thieves, con artists. So if I rail on the NTCC what is the difference? None in my book. Who made me a judge? The same person who made every NTCC minister a judge. I did. I'm self governing at least where this blog is concerned. If it's ok for NTCCers to rail on every other church it's ok for me to rail on them. As you sow, so shall you reap.
Jeff
Riley and Fred,
In my previous posts I may have come across as sharp or harsh. Please do not take it personally, My heart breaks for those trapped in ntcc. The leadership MUST be condemned for their practices, the Bible is very clear on the state of false teachers, both now and in eternity. Our job is to press, plead with, beg you to escape from these greedy deceivers.
As for you who are in ntcc in a non-leadership role we love you enough to spend the time and energy to spark a thought process in your minds.
The way that deceivers work is they distort your thought process, simply put, it is referred to as 'brain-washing', I feel this term cheapens the victim and makes the victim appear to be somewhat mentally dull, nothing could be further from the truth, it has nothing to do with intelligence. Essentially it is a 'brain trap' creating mental images that constantly permeate the mind every time key terms are used(the key terms are dependent on the cult in view).
Understand that we have nothing against you, but desire to create in you the ability to use critical thinking skills that will free you of the trap. Obviously, blogs like this are working. None of us are professional counselors or psychologists, we simply speak what we have experienced and learned.
For the record: I have listened to dozens of preaching tapes by many notables such as: Blumenthal, Kekel, Ashmore, Kinson.
I have spoken and debated countless hours with a man I consider to be a best friend, my brother. He may still hold to ntcc doctrine, yet he is mature enough to accept me as a brother in the Lord despite my dogged tenacity against this corrupt organization.
One more thing- You will find that many people leave ntcc after 10-20 years, you eventually get to a point of mid-life in which you realize "these men care nothing about me, and will NEVER do anything for me(unless you marry the right blood), I thought we were a team, a body a family...I have been deceived! I have been nothing to them but a pawn to bring in dollars for the hierarchy"
Ask around and you will see....we are begging you to let that realization take hold now before you find yourself a middle aged man with no future, no prospects, not real education and potentially kids that hate you and a former wife.
sincerely,
TB
Go message TB. Very caring. You did a much better job than I do. Hopefully your words take hold. I'm sure they will even if it's only for one or two.
Jeff
Thanks Jeff, what these guys don't realize is that this takes time and we have better things to do.
I just wanted to clarify my feelings, I think at times I am writing to quick and come across as harsh or against all ntcc'ers,nothing could be further from the truth, I love all Christians and HATE to see people taken advantage of.
Oh, one more thing, for the record: When I first got saved I went out to Graham and spent a week with my brother when he was in BS, I met all the higher ups and from the first second I met Davis I knew intuitively that he was a crook. I remember thinking "why do they speak so highly of this guy? he is a mean spirited, proud, scoundrel" When I saw people doing his yard work and taking out his trash for him it simply solidified what I knew to be true. I had been running a fairly large roofing crew for six years at that time, I knew what it what like to work hard and have all the responsibility on your shoulders. I knew that true leaders are servants and hard workers who would prefer to help someone else than take advantage of others.
again, sincerely,
TB
TB wrote...
I think at times I am writing to quick and come across as harsh or against all ntcc'ers
Jeff said...
I feel the same way. Even though I know I'm doing this for the right reasons, sometimes my right reasons are tainted. Example. I put up with a lot of crap from quite a few NTCC pastors. So over the years my tolerance for NTCC rhetoric spewed out by loyal NTCCers has become zero. Now I know I don't have to put up with it and I'm no longer worried about God striking me with lightning the minute I give an NTCCer a piece of my mind. This includes every NTCC pastor all the way up to RWD.
So the end result is I often come across quite harshly. Sometimes I do it deliberately with intent but other times I don't. The reason I do it deliberately, (and I know this works) is so current NTCCers will take notice and see that they don't have to fear the wrath God as a result of them openly acknowledging or discussing the NTCCs double standards. My approach often emboldens them. In some cases it also drives them away from this blog which is not the desired outcome. So it's a fine line that I'm sure I don't always effectively balance.
I do put up with some garbage for the sake of the readers and to be a fair moderator however sometimes I draw the line when their rhetoric becomes too reminiscent of the garbage I put up with from too many NTCC abusive pastors. Many of these NTCC pastors are ruthless and I no longer have any tolerance for their tactics. I would take great pleasure in giving some of these guys a piece of my mind. You see they are accustomed to walking all over people and they just can't deal with someone firing back at them. They are bullies who need to be stopped.
People have no reason to be scared of old Double Standard Davis, Ostracizing Olson, Kekel the Conniver, Ashmore the Abuser, Wright the Family Wrecker, L.D. Don't Rock the Boat Jones, and Kinson the Chameleon.
Jeff
TB said,
"One more thing- You will find that many people leave ntcc after 10-20 years, you eventually get to a point of mid-life in which you realize "these men care nothing about me, and will NEVER do anything for me(unless you marry the right blood), I thought we were a team, a body a family...I have been deceived!"
It is rare that I post on this blog, but the above statement needs to be repeated.
This is something that I have asked one of the board members. Why would someone spend 20 years of their life with NTCC or any other church and then decide to leave? What would it take for such a drastic action? If it was only a few then you could understand that maybe they had a problem, but you must ask yourself the questions, why so many leave after 10 to 20 years? What have they seen and been through? Is it really a lie of the devil, are they really in a battle, do they all want sin, or is what is being said the truth?
I had been with NTCC for 20 years and like so many others I begin to really look at what was being done and what was being said. You begin to see how certain ones are set up for success and others are left on their on to do everything themself. You look and see that you have given your all to build a church, that Jesus said he would build by-the-way, and then you are still called lazy and not doing it right during conferences. You see all the time, money, and energy that you have given and find out that it is still not enough. Then God begins to deal with you about his grace, mercy, and love. And when that happens and you compare it to what you have been taught for years, your eyes are then opened. You may not know exactly what is going on, but you know that God loves you and salvation is by his grace and not of works. Understand I am not talking about going back to sin, but all the things you are told that you will do IF you are saved; all the rules... Too much of anything will hurt you physically as well as spiritually.
What does facial hair have to do with being saved and serving God?
What does video games have to do with being saved and serving God?
What does being at conference have to do with being saved; most of us have supplemented the churches income to pay bills and really can't afford it?
What does being in church 5 times a week have to do with being saved? Other than to keep you working to be saved and tired so you don't think.
What does soul winning at every free waking moment have to do with being saved? Also keeping you working to be saved and tired so you don't think.
These have been rules even though it has been recently said that they were or are not; all of us that have been with NTCC more than a few years know the truth.
I know that we will do some of those things sometimes, but God NEVER mandated them for salvation or being right with God. Works are freewill and not mandated for salvation and being right with God. Even sanctification, which NTCC calls holiness, is on an individual bases; it is not mandated or legislated. It is between God and that individual.
I left NTCC (not God) about 3 weeks ago and I do not regret it. I really don't regret most of the time I spent with NTCC other than giving so much money to the church that I neglected my own future, but it was as unto the Lord, and neglecting my family which I am making up for now.
I have been called by many that have thought about leaving NTCC or that have already left in the last few weeks. God has dealt with them about his grace, mercy, and love and when that happens it will not be long until they also will say that they and NTCC no longer agree.
I was a big defender of NTCC like so many others here, but after the years begin to pass you see what is going on.
There is a reason why they tell them not to read blogs like this. They realize that if others share what is going on in their life then they can no longer say that it is a lie of the devil or the person is just in a battle. There are TOO many witnesses.
Bro. Bellamy
There is a reason why they tell them not to read blogs like this. They realize that if others share what is going on in their life then they can no longer say that it is a lie of the devil or the person is just in a battle. There are TOO many witnesses.
Bro. Bellamy
Bro Johnson said........PREACH!!!
To M Riley:
Dude, your pic looks funny. What are you smirking / looking at? When you take a pic, look INTO the Camera.
It would show you being more authentic than a fraud.
Bro Johnson
Brother Johnson said,
"To M Riley:
Dude, your pic looks funny. What are you smirking / looking at? When you take a pic, look INTO the Camera.
It would show you being more authentic than a fraud."
What does the man's picture have to do with the issues?
Brother Bellamy, you are spot on and we concur with everything you said and say amen, amen and amen.
mdr
TB wrote...
"One more thing- You will find that many people leave ntcc after 10-20 years, you eventually get to a point of mid-life in which you realize "these men care nothing about me, and will NEVER do anything for me(unless you marry the right blood), I thought we were a team, a body a family...I have been deceived!"
Jeff said...
I realized that they didn't care a thing about me also. I was no more than a tithe check. The only one who really seemed to care was Pastor Hunt. We may have our differences but I really think he cared. Here is the deal and the important part.
I don't go to a church just because one person cares. My family cares, friends that don't even go to church care. Caring is just a byproduct. If the church is a cult, I could care less if one person cares or 100 people care. The church is still a cult. Having said that I happen to know that many people in the NTCC DON'T care to include RWD. They only care about two things. Blind loyalty and tithe. Start questioning the NTCC leadership and stop paying tithe and you'll find out real quick just how much they care.
Come on people. Do you really believe that God's main concern is that you pay tithe? Jesus refereed to the weightier matters of the law one of which was mercy. Tithe was not at the top of the list and not only that, it was a matter of the "LAW". Notice he said, "matters of the "LAW". He was talking to the Jews who were at that time supposed to follow every letter of the law. Where tithe is concerned, the NTCC wants to maintain the "LAW", but why doesn't the NTCC leadership show mercy along with requiring people to pay tithe? "If you don't like it there is the door" every time someone disagrees with you? Is that mercy? Not in my book.
The NTCC leadership teaches not to care about people. Jam 2:15. If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body
That people is the NTCC all day. All they care about is whether or not you pay tithe. When is the only time NTCC people visit people with few exceptions? When they miss church. "Brother we missed you in church". That is so fake it's unbelievable. They don't care if you are broke, without food, car broke down, can't pay your rent, wife leaving you, husband leaving you. They don't care about any of that. I'll be praying for you is all they say. That excuses them of any real responsibility. Here is what they care about. Brother we missed you in church and you didn't pay your tithe. As long as they see you in service 5 times a week and as long as that tithe check keeps rolling in, you are transparent to them.
People, the NTCC leadership does not care about you. You are a warm butt and a tithe check (unless they require cash), no more, no less. They will tell you and I've heard them say, "It doesn't matter if you can't pay your rent and you are going to be evicted, you better pay your tithe." That is all they care about.
Jeff
Jeff said:
"You are a warm butt and a tithe check (unless they require cash), no more, no less."
Don said:
Jeff, you probably know the bible much better than I do, but I noticed that there are three derivatives of the word tithe in the KJV bible. Tithe, tithing and tithes. They were used a combined 35 times, sometimes together in the same verse.
There are two major derivatives for money and they are money and silver. These are used a combined 405 times. You can find mites and pennies also mentioned a few times in the bible but nowhere can you find tithe and money or tithe and silver mentioned in the same verse. You can find corn and tithe, or wine and tithe or first fruits of the land and tithe but nowhere in the entire KJV bible do you find money and tithe. You can find money dating all the way back to Abraham in Genesis 13.
Is tithe just a big hoax or are there actually scriptures that specifically state that you have to pay tithe like an electric bill or something on a continuous basis and that it has to be paid in money? I know that nowhere in the New Testament can you find tithe as a mandate. What about the Old Testament? I guess I'm asking you because I'm to lazy to search it out and you might be able to pull it up out of your brain faster than I could. So my question is, Jeff does the bible specifically say anywhere in the Old or New Testaments that tithe is to be payed in money on a regular basis if you expect to make heaven your home? And does that tithe have to be paid to some crooked cult leader that misappropriates it and feels no obligation to be honest about where it goes?
I remember the ntcc leaders that I was a slave to emphasizing tithe AND OFFERINGS as being part of the equation that eventually places you in hell if you don't go along with it. When you look at the original text tithe and offerings is translated as a tenth but I can't find where it's commanded that money is considered tithe. Abraham wasn't commanded to bring tithe of everything he did it freely and was an example. Every single mention of tithe I can find in the old testament regarding tithe or (in the Levites case tithe on tithe) as a commandment refers to tithe of the land, seed, cattle, sheep, produce never money specifically. The primary purpose seemed to be for the Levites because their lot was to minister to God and also for the stranger so that he could eat.
Anyway, that's my take on it. I think tithe would be a good thing if it was done out of free will and not as an ultimatum. In the ntcc it is definitely an ultimatum and is the Number one indicator of salvation. There is nothing that comes close. If a person fails to pay tithe, he is a God robber and is warned of spending eternity in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone. I would think that anyone who issues out such a threat would have more to worry about than somebody who gives what they can when they can. What thinkest thou?
Don and Ange
Other than Malachi, every scripture is a stretch that the NTCC uses in it's doctrinal statement to support tithing. Certain ones such as 1 Cor 16:2 are just flat out bogus and have nothing to do with tithing. It's deceitful. Of course we've discussed this one at length in previous threads but once again I see no scriptures from the New Testament that justify someone claiming tithing as a heaven or hell mandate. It simply doesn't exist and in fact there are scriptures that clearly suggest otherwise not the least of which is 2 Cor 9:7.
I have no problem with someone feeling that it is their duty to pay tithe but now that I've studied the scriptures more thoroughly, (without the outside influence of a bunch of conniving manipulators) I have a huge problem with people who make it a matter of heaven or hell. That is no more than a scare tactic and the NTCC has used it quite well. That is my take.
Jeff
Jeff said:
"Other than Malachi, every scripture is a stretch that the NTCC uses in it's doctrinal statement to support tithing. Certain ones such as 1 Cor 16:2 are just flat out bogus and have nothing to do with tithing. It's deceitful."
Don said:
I guess we were all taken for a ride. I had a 14 year gap in my life where I never even opened the bible one time but since then just looking at it surface deep it seems like tithe was a huge hoax. I'll probably study it out thoroughly at some point. Now that we have tools like the Blue Letter Bible and Biblos you can look things up pretty quick. I did take a look at Malachi not to mention how many times that scripture was rammed down our throats. Still doesn't say anything about money, seems like the only time money is mentioned is in free will offerings. Plus when you look at the OT being fulfilled by the ultimate sacrifice it really is a week argument that tithe = 10% of your paycheck before taxes and not paying it places you in hell.
Thanks for your two cents. I know we have covered this a lot but taking a closer look at it today got me a little fired up. When you give thousands and find out that you were had it sticks in your craw. It's just like being part of some marketing scheme where you invest a bunch of money and time only to find out that you've been lied to and the thieves are gone with your money. What makes it worse is that the thieves are living it up in Graham right in front of everyone, with no shame or remorse.
We were deceived by those we loved and trusted the most. While we made them fat with all of our finances they were sticking a dagger in our backs. And when we call them out on this we now are accused of hatred and bitterness. Now because of these crooks, everyone I do business with gets scrutinized, because if you can't trust someone who is supposed to be a brother or a Christian leader, who can you trust? It used to be that a man was as good as his word and a handshake was good as gold. It turns out that the worst thieves and liars are those you allowed yourself to love and trust. And they used Christ as an avenue to steal our money and ruin our lives so they could be fat and happy. How sick is that?
Don and Ange
I hear you Bro. Just to be clear and once again. I have no problem with people who feel it's their duty to pay tithe. I paid tithe consistently while I was in the NTCC and I never missed a beat. The biggest problem I have with the whole thing is that we were told that certain practices were sinful just to find out that my tithe money was used so that Grant Kekel could be involved with those same practices that the NTCC has made rules against and my kids didn't participate in.
Would you give your tithe money to a murderer or a violent rapist who happened to be a pastor? I would hope not. So why should it be any different with giving your tithe money to a hypocritical, deceitful crook who uses it so that his kid can be involved in the very activities that his church has taught was sin for decades? Would you pay tithe to the devil? Would you pay tithe to a bank robber? So why should we be expected to pay tithe to a deceitful hypocrite? Mike Kekel says there were never rules against organized sports participation, or wearing shorts, or wearing lascivious athletic clothing but that is a lie and he knows it.
Not only were there rules against such things but it was taught that it was outright sin. Wear some shorts to the campground like Grant Kekel wore to play basketball and see where that would get you. It's just a campground, whats wrong with shorts? Jesus wore a robe. A preacher came to the campground with a beard and RWD said he looked like the taliban. I remember and I quite clearly heard RWD make that statement. Did Jesus look like the taliban with his beard? One day some deceitful person like Kekel will claim that there was never a rule against wearing a beard in the NTCC.
So I'm supposed to pay tithe to folks like that? I'd be just as well off giving tithe to a Catholic Priest who likes to drink alcohol. He is getting it anyway every time the Kekels help Grant with his college expenses at the Catholic college he attends. At least I'd know where my money was going and for all it's worth, the Catholic church is involved with contributing to a lot of charitable organizations.
I guarantee that knowing what I know now, there is one organization that I wouldn't give tithe to. The New Testament Christian Church. I'd take it and give it to the nearest rescue mission. God doesn't expect us to be foolish with the money he's blessed us with.
Jeff
Ange was telling me that the Chapel in Graham during the nineties had signs with the picture of a burglar with a mask pointing large guns straight at the people that walked out the door, one on each side and possibly four total signs with the inscription, "Will a man rob God"? This is in a church founded by a man that would not have a cross anywhere on the platform. This is how my wife remembers it, if anyone else remembers it feel free to chime in.
I had to dig a little deeper and if you look at Malachi in context he is rebuking the priests of Isreal. They were offering polluted bread on God's altar. They were profaning His table by polluting it with meat that is contemptible. They were bringing that which was lame and torn and sick as an offering contrary to the LAW of Moses. They practiced hypocrisy weeping and crying in insincerity.
Mal 3:8 "Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings". This word tithe is translated in the Strong's concordance #4643 and is talking about the tithe that the Levitical priesthood which was tithe on tithe. God was mad at the Religious leaders for not doing what was commanded them in the LAW. This had absolutely nothing to do with money. Even the offerings that were mentioned were translated Strong's #8641 fruits of the field and Heave shoulder offerings.
The more I study this the more I realize that we and all ntcc members past and present have been totally duped and lied to. I also think it's great if people want to pay their tithe to support the work of God. If people do it cheerfully and not out of obligation I believe they will receive a greater blessing. But when these self appointed unaccredited apostles teach that you are robbing God if you do not pay your tithe, and they in turn spend your money on the most frivolous things money can buy while you eat ramen dinners and ride a bicycle to work they are the God robbers, not you.
I'm so glad not to be a part of this bunch of crooks and deceivers. If you are an ntcc'r don't take our word for it, study it out for yourself. Don't try to justify it by twisting scriptures like others that have come to this blog have done, but study it out for yourself. We're not saying don't pay tithe, we are just saying give it to someone who will use it for the work of God. Jesus told that rich man to sell all he had and give to the poor. He didn't say pay tithe on it to the religious hypocrites.
Don and Ange
I think that about sums it up, Jeff. I agree in giving to a real Christian church or even giving your money to do your own independent evangelistic outreach. If the church you give to is transparent and you can see that they do great things with the money you give, then that is great. My personal thoughts are that if NTCC was helping their poor church members and the leaders weren't getting filthy rich I would probably give more than 10 per cent after reading in the book of Acts of how the church gave to help their poor members. I would give to support a real pastor too if he was in need of support. I see no reason to support RW Davis and MC Kekel any more though. They are already WELL taken care of. If they are ever hurting, I am pretty sure they could just sell off a small per cent of their assets and be just fine, better than most of us I am pretty sure.
People have given in the Old Testament when there was a need in the OT and the NT and they gave large amounts, because they believed in the cause. When Moses told the people to give what they had for the work of the tabernacle, they gave TOO much. The people in the early church in Acts 2, gave what they had if they owned property so that the poor did not go without. Judas was the one that held the bag in Jesus' ministry. Peter said that he and others had given all that they had to follow Jesus, but Jesus said He didn't even have a place to lay His head down.
I just don't like giving to a so-called church that has zero transparency on where your money goes, and does not believe in using the money to do charitable acts. They have pastors like MDR spending their hard-earned paychecks to keep the work afloat that they are not really pastoring, because Davis is the real pastor, yet Davis doesn't really offer financial support to those church managers underneath him. They don't have the right to do anything without his permission, but they sure are expected to flip the bill when the church needs something. I don't want to give money to a headquarters that doesn't give back to the church itself. I believe a real Christian church would pool the money together from all churches, big and large, and evenly distribute it to help meet the financial needs of ALL the churches, not just to build up the headquarters into some DISNEYLAND church while the rest of them struggle to get by!
Great points from both Kris and Don and Ange.
I'm not giving to any church that doesn't show financial transparency. I hate to say this but the fact is, you couldn't necessarily trust one who did. They could always fudge the books. How do you give to God? By giving to your neighbor. Like the good Samaritan. I'll guarantee you'd be more pleasing to God giving like that then giving to a non-transparent tithe scheme like the one the NTCC promotes.
Jesus didn't say, "sell all you have and give the church 10%." He said, "sell all you have and give to the poor and follow him". Every example you see of giving in the New Testament is an example of giving to the poor. Look at why God recognized Cornelius... Because of his alms deeds. It wasn't because he gave 10% to a couple rich crooks like RWD and Kekel who ran a church.
The NTCCs plan for giving is give to them so they can get yet more filthy rich. Show me one example of that kind of giving taking place in the New Testament. And then we are supposed to be so blind that we shouldn't even know where the money goes? When Paul took up an offering he announced that it would go the the poor saints in Jerusalem. When Peter advocated people selling their goods it was so that everyone would have an ample amount and no one would go without.
The NTCC teaches that Peter messed that whole thing up but the Bible doesn't not say that. In fact the Bible shows an example of God's judgment on a couple who didn't disclose all their earnings as a result of what they'd sold. Once again, another example of taking care of the less fortunate. Certainly not the NTCC way. The NTCC way is to make the rich richer while watching the poor struggle and telling them that it is their fault that they are struggling while at the same time the struggling poor give what little money they have to the rich.
I've said this a bunch of times and I don't know if many people caught it but it's just like the story of Robin Hood. I mean it's so close, it's unbelievable. RWD is the Sheriff of Nottingham, Kekel is like Guy of Gisbourne, Olson is the crooked Bishop and all the poor towns people are the NTCC church members and struggling ministers.
Jeff
TB - Go Bruins!
Kristofer said:
"When Moses told the people to give what they had for the work of the tabernacle, they gave TOO much."
Don said:
Yeah, and when they had brought too much they were told to stop bringing. Could you imagine rwd or mck doing that? They would find an excuse to not use it for building the Tabernacle and misappropriate the money for another purpose like the purchase of a new motor home or a grant for Grant's Catholic college. That's what these people are all about. They bring polluted offerings to God under false pretenses. While their ministers struggle and can't even afford clothing that will fit them according to the holiness standards they observe, they are taking trips to Disney Land and Europe. They are living a double standard right there in Graham in front of the very students they are teaching. Living lavish life- styles in the open for the world to see while keeping the bs students under the poverty line.
What they need is some good old fashioned scrutiny. An IRS audit and an investigation into all the crooked dealings they have been involved in. If this mess that they have created were to be put in the spotlight and given national attention, there would be an outcry and enormous pressure for full disclosure and transparency. Loved ones of cult members would in turn realize that their sons and daughters were in a cult. People aren't even aware that cults like this exist. The members all say that they are Christians but they themselves practice, observe and follow the cult leaders teachings unknowingly. It's pretty sick when you think about it.
You are introduced to God by your cult leader. He shows you everything you need to see in the bible to get saved. He creates blind zeal in your life so you will follow him and his leaders and their teachings. And then they begin to introduce false teachings that involve fear for breaking rules and policies. These rules and policies are not even found in the bible, so they use scriptures, like obey them that have the rule over you and they say things like God will reveal this to you in time. The only reason they introduce these rules and policies into a new Christian's life is to have more control over them. If they can keep you in fear and always worrying about messing up, they got you right where they want you. Sure you feel God every day, why shouldn't you, your living above and beyond God's requirements. But when you do this year after year and you are kept from reaching your potential as a Christian you will wear down just like everyone else. You can see it in the pictures of those that have served for decades. They have that tired glossed over fake smile look. The reason they are tired and worn out and follow their leaders oblivious to the double-standards that exist right in front of them is because they have gotten away from God's simple plan of New Testament Christianity, where we don't have to work our way into heaven any more. His yoke is supposed to be easy and his burden light. And it is.
Don and Ange
Don and Ange wrote...
Yeah, and when they had brought too much they were told to stop bringing. Could you imagine rwd or mck doing that?
Jeff said...
Let me see how many ways I can answer. No, not even, notta, under no circumstances, NOT, I don't think so, not in a million years, please are you kidding, get real!!! Do I need to go on? Double Standard Davis and Kekel the conniver are going to bleed you for every dime they can get while doing their best to convince you that, "GOD USED YOU TO BLESS THEM".
What a crock.
Jeff
Kristofer said:
"When Moses told the people to give what they had for the work of the tabernacle, they gave TOO much."
Don said:
Yeah, and when they had brought too much they were told to stop bringing. Could you imagine rwd or mck doing that?
Don and Ange say,
davis and mc kekel would keep everything and demand more. How do we know?
When Matt Reed took over the work in Killeen, TX he testified that he discovered $279,000.00 dollars in the escrow account. But when he petitioned davis to use the escrow for its intended purpose of building maintenance, davis stonewalled him, jacking up Reed saying, "That's not your money!"
DUH! It's not YOUR money EITHER, davis!
That money belongs to the congregation in Killeen, TX and should only be spent there and only for the intended purpose under which it was collected from the congregation.
The congregation gave all that money to have a nice place to worship God. But what does davis do? davis hoardes it and orders Matt Reed to milk the congregation for more money: "Take up an offering."
davis is greedy and with no financial disclosure showing where the money goes, how much there is, what it is spent on, it looks like davis is dealing in dirt. Our opinion is that davis is a crook!
LET'S SEE ALL THE FINANCIAL RECORDS!!!
"When Moses told the people to give what they had for the work of the tabernacle, they gave TOO much.
Jeff said....
Everyone in the NTCC gave too much. When $20,000 a year was spent in GKs high school education everyone gave too much. With $279,000 sitting in escrow in Killeen, and Davis saying it was not the pastor to spend, everyone gave too much. Giving to the church doesn't equate to making someone rich at the expense of everyone else.
Show me one place in the New Testament where that happened? I didn't think so. If you give the NTCC one more dollar, you've given too much. There ain't no way one more penny of my money will go toward GKs secular catholic college education after the NTCC not only preached against Catholics but secular college attendance for at least the last 35 years. I heard it preached too many times.
Jeff
In the past RWD, JHO and MCK made it sound like they have some kind of CPA that audits their books for them at that they're in IRS compliance. With that being said, does anyone know how to initiate an IRS audit of a non-profit or how we could get that started on the NTCC? I'm thinking here -
http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=106778,00.html
They definitely don't like scrutiny and do not like their authority questioned.
What's interesting is you can't find them listed on the Missouri or Washington Attorney General's Charity websites -
http://ago.mo.gov/checkacharity/
http://www.sos.wa.gov/charities/search.aspx
Jeff said,
"Everyone in the NTCC gave too much. When $20,000 a year was spent in GKs high school education everyone gave too much. With $279,000 sitting in escrow in Killeen, and Davis saying it was not the pastor to spend, everyone gave too much. Giving to the church doesn't equate to making someone rich at the expense of everyone else."
Al says,
I like burying a few bones in the backyard myself. But if I had 279,000 of them, I don't think I'd be looking to score some more. Talk about Milk Bones and Gravy Train!
Al
That was good Alfalfa. I enjoy your humor. Well all you have to do is become an NTCC pastor, learn all the tricks of the trade, and then break away like Denis did to do your own thing and you can have all the gravy train you'll ever want.
There is only one reason that Denis broke away. It had little or nothing to do with compromise even though there was plenty of that and Denis rightfully identified it. Denis broke away because he wanted to control his own destiny and money and he knew that would never happen as long as he was part of the NTCC. He told me (after he left) that he learned a lot from RWD. He learned the art of suckering young GI's who were easy to con out of their money. And that fact my friends is why Denis patterned his organization explicitly after the NTCC with the network of serviceman's homes.
Denis may be a crook just like RWD but he is no dummy. While he was still with the NTCC he openly expressed his grievance with the way the NTCC leadership handled the money in a one sided fashion. Basically what he was saying is that he knew he would never get his fair share of the pie. He also had a problem with the way the whole RV system operated.
He said these things openly in front of me, pastor Hunt and everybody. Hunt was too scared to tell Davis anything. I was amazed to hear Denis say these things but I soon learned that he was not only telling the truth but he also quite obviously had an agenda. The split. He wanted me to go along because he knew I was a faithful tithe payer who had a pretty good income. He joked with Hunt about Mayers loosing a big tithe payer from his church when I left Atlanta. Hunt laughed about it.
Denis was right on the money people. He knew that he wasn't part of a real Christian organization anyway so why continue to spin his wheels? If he was willfully partnered up with crooks (which he knew he was) why not break away and be in control of the whole pie just like RWD? We are not talking righteousness here, were talking common sense. Basically Denis did the same thing that Davis did years ago. Read Deb Shunks blog. Years ago Davis basically did the same thing. He just used different tactics.
Why do you think Davis didn't take legal action against Denis? Because Denis and all his followers had too much dirt on the NTCC and Davis with all his shady practices and Davis knew it. Denis gambled that Davis wouldn't take legal action against him because Davis had more to loose than Denis did, and Denis was right on the money, pun intended. Denis essentially blackmaled Davis. Denis talked to me and my wife on the phone one day while I was at work. He'd called my house and my wife put me through on a three way conversation with Denis. Denis backed Davis up against a wall and Denis said that Davis started crying.
The only reason that I didn't leave with Denis is because that would have been like jumping out of the pot and into the kettle. Plus at that time I thought that Hunt was a pretty good guy and he was my pastor. Davis wouldn't blow the whitle on Denis. If you were a drug dealer and someone stole your drugs, would you go to the police? You'd be an idiot and Davis knew that he had too many bones in the closet that Denis knew about. So Davis acted like he was taking the high road when in reality he was only covering his back. That is why he let Denis get away with all that money and property such as furniture that Denis took out of a serviceman's home.
Davis would have brought down the NTCC if he tried to take Denis down. Denis got away with a lot of money from the NTCC that he kept to get HOP off the ground. You people in the NTCC have no clue what your leader R.W. Davis is really all about. Either that or you are simply too weak to leave. It happens. Davis has a history of promoting people like Denis because Davis only looks at one thing. How much money someone can bring in. God looks at the heart and Davis looks at the almighty dollar. Bottom line.
Jeff
Jeff said.."He said these things openly in front of me, pastor Hunt and everybody. Hunt was too scared to tell Davis anything."
That is quite eye opening and the fact that RWD/NTCC never pursued legal action - criminal or civil against Denis is weird. You would think hearing them talk about it that he and his cohorts embezzled money and stole equipment and furniture straight out of places. What other corporation or business would not pursue something? Denis used the same tactics of saying something and gauging your reaction just like RWD in order to see where your stood. Denis also knew where all of the bodies were buried. Denis also tried to appeal to alot of the black ministers in NTCC and if it wasn't for some of their blind devotion to RWD they would have left. I bet there were alot of black ministers that didn't say anything and probably even secretly wished they had the guts to break away and "get there's" too. After all of that went down, RWD began telling some story about how much he loves black people and that he was basically suckled by a black nurse/nanna when he was younger and that she had more than enough milk to go around because of two big (motions with his hands)... Anyhow, I feel sorry for blacks in NTCC...
Anonymous said....
That is quite eye opening and the fact that RWD/NTCC never pursued legal action - criminal or civil against Denis is weird.
Jeff said...
It's not weird to me even though I understand your point. As I've already stated, Davis had a whole lot more to loose than Denis did and Denis knew too much or certainly enough to be dangerous. It's just that simple. Different NTCC ministers said that they didn't understand why RWD didn't take legal action against Denis. That is because they are naive. It's just as plain as the nose and ears on my face which happen to be pretty big. Davis wasn't taking the high road. He was covering his back by alleviating the whole situation by simply doing nothing. In the process he could convince all the suckers that he was being forgiving and merciful.
The split should be a very telling event pointing directly to the true nature of RWD and the NTCC. First it's proof that RWD is a terrible judge of character. Secondly it shows that RWD and the NTCC had something to hide or he would have definitely taken Denis to court. Denis was skimming money off the top of a bunch of different churches. This was not hidden but reported to RWD and the general board by witnesses who didn't go along with the split. Hannah's helper blew the whistle and told all about it. I can't remember the guys name. He was in Georgia with Hannah. Davis is dirty and it's just that simple.
Jeff
the loser in this game? the soldier that diligently paid tithe and offering.
Anon said,
"the loser in this game? the soldier that diligently paid tithe and offering."
You got that right Bub!
Yeah, the soldier is not likely to win that one. I don't know though. It certainly seems that God has a way of taking care of people. Every time I turn around things seem to go my way. It often appears that God opens up doors for me but there is no telling. Of course I couldn't say for certain but man do I find good jobs with little or no effort. The job that I have right now is better than I could have possibly ever dreamed of. If you just looked purely at the job I have and the things I have you would say, "that guy is blessed". Who knows though. There are a lot of people with good jobs and nice things. Kekel and RWD are two such people and I'd say they are crooks. Non Christians can get nice things and have good jobs also so who knows.
Nevertheless I'm thankful.
Jeff
Jeff said..."He was covering his back by alleviating the whole situation by simply doing nothing."
That is probably the best thing that Olson and RWD are good at. If they don't do anything, then you can't see their reaction to it and see how it truly affected them. They act like they already knew something or say stuff like "God is in control" all the while they are scrambling (going through their Rolodex) to find the next sucker to take that church. Also, as far as jobs most of the time it seemed like NTCC ministers had to settle for some construction job or doing insulation.
ve said this a bunch of times and I don't know if many people caught it but it's just like the story of Robin Hood. I mean it's so close, it's unbelievable. RWD is the Sheriff of Nottingham, Kekel is like Guy of Gisbourne, Olson is the crooked Bishop and all the poor towns people are the NTCC church members and struggling ministers. \
From Jeff
And we have to be Robin Hood. Stealing or exposing them so folks leave. So they LOSE money from there greedy little hands!
April
Exactly April.
Jeff
A friend? Ok. But don't spread lies, or threaten to. They lie so much about people who leave.
Now, in 2015, Ashmore agrees with me, ntcc promotes cruelty, beating the sheep.
I believe RWD is in Hell.
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