Reasons for a Minister's resignation from New Testament Christian Churches of America, Inc.
In the past weeks I have been struggling to move on with my life and with God’s grace He is helping me. For people I have been associated with for almost my entire adult life I can’t simply walk away from. I am writing this letter to be as much for myself as for others. Rev Olson asked me to explain my resignation, and in answer, I replied that I rather not talk about it. I was in a quandary as far as what to say, so I said nothing. He asked me if he did anything to harm me, and I said he had not, but on the contrary, Rev Olson has been a blessing to me and my family as much as he could.
The Bible tells us that if we have ought against a brother, go to them and attempt to reconcile. What if, you have ought against an institution? Against an organization? Well below I listed the reasons for resigning from New Testament Christian Churches of America, Inc.:
Debt Teaching: The Bible teaches that we should owe no man anything. The teaching I have received in NTCC is to make exceptions to this teaching, for houses and cars. A teaching against the word of God?! I understand mortgages and “agreements” to drive a car, but to teach it from the pulpit? To understand it, does not condone or encourage it. How many slaves to the bank continue today?
Business of the church: When Jesus said that He was to be about His Father’s business, was a 12 year old telling his parents that he must pursue God’s will. Was he talking about bank deposits and balancing books? Hardly. The Bible does tell us that a bishop is a manager of sorts, but taking a verse out of context is clearly unhelpful. A church is a place of healing and a springboard to launch people into their own ministry.
Pursuit of Real Estate: Where in the New Testament did Christians seek to own property? Never, and the only reference is the man who couldn't come to the feast because of his land purchase. Empire building? Where is that in the plan of God? Many other churches rent buildings and prosper, without compromising their message. They can focus on other things, the more needful things.
Emphasis on church numbers: Never taught in the New Testament and David was condemned for counting the people in the Old Testament. True, numbers of converts were noted in the Book of Acts, but was it the measure of success? If numbers are the standard for success then Noah is failure as is our Lord, ending His earthly ministry with only a handful? Far from it. I am not doing away with goals and striving for the mastery, but I have been taught there is not an alternative for success. At least, from NTCC, but from the Bible tells me otherwise.
Lack of Fellowship: Where are the fellowship meetings? The reason given was because of the crazy things being preached at the monthly gatherings. So we cannot trust a seminary-trained, licensed minister to feed us spiritually? Really?
Stove-piped churches: The admonition to not be nosy into what other churches are doing is fine, but somehow a paranoia seems to have been built up. Few call each other and fellowship among brethren suffers. Yes, we should be careful, but encouraging ministers to fellowship even through phone at least at a limited amount would be that harmful? Among brothers? Ministers? What are we? Christians? Ministers?
Children – The organization is simply not friendly to children. Perhaps this came from the Serviceman's Home ministry. I cannot be an effective minister with kids? That is impression I get.
Pharisaical Teaching: The Bible says modest apparel. What is the difference between Rabbis dictating what is “work” on the Sabbath and regulations on what exactly to wear? No, I am not, writing this point so my wife can wear pants. She is still wearing skirts and will continue to do so because of personal example.
Fasting: God gave us the fast, noted in Isaiah, Jesus fasted, AFTER being baptized in the Holy Spirit, Jesus said, “When” you fast and the church leaders did it in the Book of Acts. So, teaching that fasting is no longer needed is clearly not Biblical. If God gave fasting to us, your teaching takes it away?
Prosperity Gospel: If you are rich, be rich in good works. Right? Where in the New Testament will God make you rich? Persecution is certainly promised and is a mansion in heaven to the Christian. Are most of the members in the organization disobedient to God and the fruit of that is their middle-class or below status? I don't care how much someone has, as long as they have enough to feed themselves.
Forgetting the poor: Paul was mindful of the poor, as was the church in Jerusalem. I am only one person, but I can make a small difference. Yes, Jesus said you have the poor with you always and I agree, but He was teaching on priority, not exclusion. Priority is God, in all things, but what does James say about pure religion? Visit the widow? And to extend help? Tell them be warmed and fed? On a personal note, I have been the recipient of gifts from individuals in the past, of which I am grateful. The system on the other hand is not Biblical.
Shunning: The Bible clearly states cases for shunning: covetous, fornication, etc. So, which of these am I guilty of? The Bible says for those of you that are spiritual; restore a brother found in a fault. Where is the restoration, or at least the attempt? Is anyone spiritual?
I wrote Rev Olson a letter just before I resigned, on my frustration on the lack of growth at the church I was pastoring. Mind you, this is the context of: only big numbers mean success. I want people saved, and serving God. I am still working for God reaching the lost. What finally pushed me to decide to resign was a sad thing. In frustration, wanting to be loyal, I reach for the Bible school notes for solace and aid. I read, that the reason the church was not bigger was because of me, after all I am the preacher. What could I have done better? I could, as all of us, squeezed out an extra 10%, maybe. It wasn't because I didn't give, I gave all, and only God and my wife know the extent of it. People left the church because they moved away, or got jobs or hate the Bible, so which is one should I shoulder?
So here I was, I had gave all, and a failure, according to NTCC standards. There has to be something better. There is. God’s grace is sufficient.
I told Rev Olson I would not burn any bridges, in reference to my exit. I no longer know what that means. I am not bitter and I earnestly want my brethren to prosper, but can the institution? God has blessed my family financially also during the time of my resignation, so I know God provides.
193 comments:
Welcome Bro. Rendla,
On this side of the "ntcc wall" we will not throw you under the bus. We will not discourage you or say that it's your fault because you were the preacher. We will not tell you to pray through and get the victory but we will encourage you to continue in God, in freedom and liberty.
Do all the things you couldn't do in the ntcc that you wanted to do for God. Help the poor. Find a place of worship where people love one another and offer more than lip service. Pet a dog, go to the zoo, take a vacation when you can afford it. Life is not meant to be a bunch of do's and don'ts. Christianity is not meant to be a stale religion where only one out of 10,000 get saved and stay saved. If the ntcc told you not to have children and you are not too old, they are a blessing, and we recommend that you fill your quiver full of them if you can provide for them. Live life to the fullest. Do good to your neighbor, help those who can't help themselves. Do fun things with your family. Treat yourself to a steak. Ditch the wing tips and white shirts unless you really like them. Follow peace with all men, visit other churches as the Lord directs you. Take in a concert or two, if the music you like is performed live. Pray, read and study but have fun doing it. Visit all your relatives and let them know that you still love them. Re-establish old friendships, get a facebook account if you want one. There are many people on facebook that will support you. If you really want freedom, express yourself on this blog and others like it. Share your feelings as you have done by posting this letter.
We can't tell you how much this letter will help others. There are so many people that want to live a normal Christian life who are scared but they have the same concerns and feelings you have. Your willingness to share will embolden others to do the same. Be proud of your self for stepping out and helping those that need it the most.
Isaiah 51:2
"Look unto Abraham, your father and unto Sarah, that bare you: For I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him.
He went out as a man with just his wife, and God made him great. Why would it be any different for us? Jesus Christ the same yesterday today and forever.
Don and Ange
This is very, very sad to read. Hope the leadership takes note.
Congratulations Bro. Rendla,
You will certainly be blessed now that God has lead you out!
TB
"This is very, very sad to read."
I'm happy to read that another has escaped from under the thumb, but the experiences leading up to it are always pretty sad.
Wow Jeff,
We should get together and have a Fellowship Meeting at your house in GA. We don't have to ask permission.
List of things to bring to Fellowship Meeting at Jeff's place:
1. Fireworks
2. Football
3. Volleyball and Net
4. Flip Flops
5. Sun Glasses
6. Hawaiian Shirt
7. Chewing Gum
8. Children
9. Pets (cats and hamsters ok)
10. Contemporary Christian Music CDs (CD - Compact Disk-- Not Certificates of Deposit. To clear up any confusion, we know that the ntcc frequents these blogs as much as anyone)
11. Girls in Cowboy Boots
12. Puerto Ricans
13. Homeless People
14. Bows in hair (for girls only)
15. Relatives
16. Friends
17. Board games
18. Cards and Chips
19. NIV Bible
20. Mobile devices, ie. smart phones, net books and other blogging instruments to stay current on the latest departures from the ntcc.
Jeff will supply the grill, hotdogs and beverages. All contraband will be checked in at the front gate. This is a non-tithing event so leave your checkbooks at home. Feel free to bring your bible if you want, but God is able to keep you for one day if you choose to leave it at home.
Don and Ange
I'm in except there are a few rules. You can only have two kids. Anymore and you have to ask permission. No more than two cars in the driveway. You must ask me permission to bring your relatives. No homeless people cause they don't have any money. Only the Kekels Son can play football, you knew that silly rabbit. Flip Flops? I'll have to see if God changed his mind about that one. Of course no CATS! They are evil because they don't have round pupils. If you bring a cat to my house, I'm leaving, right before I shoot the cat. I don't want to be cursed by the cat.
Have you forgot I haven't been out of the NTCC that long. I still have rules and I haven't forgot what I was taught at the NTCC.
Now on a serious note. I'd gladly host a BBQ. The reality is, we are spread out all across the USA. I know L. Travis goes camping and some ExNTCCers have been able to enjoy going along with him. The list of rules that Don and Ange wrote are a testimony to how ridiculous the NTCC leadership really is. They've created their own version of the law. More to follow. I have to fix my son's breakfast. It's Saturday and I'm off for the weekend. Thank God for the best job on the planet.
Jeff
Colossians 2:21
"'Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle'"
Many people think that they are spiritual because they follow taboos. They don't smoke cigars and they don't go with the girls who do! No Christian in his right mind ought to do this, but it is no proof that we are spiritual Christians.
This verse sets forth three negatives. These negatives give the impression that if we are going to heaven, we must give up pleasure in life. Pseudo spirituality revels in rules.
----------
"Do not touch"
"Touch" means to fasten oneself to. The idea is more than an inadvertent touch. It means to cling to. Under the ceremonial law touching a dead body and anything offered to an idol was wrong.
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"do not taste"
To taste forbidden food was sinful in Colosse. Today certain religious types would have us live on lettuce leaves! We cannot live a spiritual life without denial of food. There are many food taboos today.
----------
"do not handle"
"Handle" means to handle in a superficial way. Certain religious people want us to take great care with the ornaments of religious ceremony.
PRINCIPLE: Christianity is not a religion of rules.
APPLICATION: We can be as carnal as the Devil himself and not smoke cigars. If gossip is part of our lives, we are clearly carnal. We must get out of thinking of spirituality in negative terms, "I can't do this. I can't do that."
The genuine is more precious than the imitation. A real diamond is better than a glass diamond. Most people live their entire Christian lives with glass diamonds. They know little of dynamic spiritual life. Many live in the glass diamonds of legalism. Refraining from certain practices do not give us an "in" with God.
The Devil always tries to get us on tangents. We put emphasis on the negative and give our young people the impression that Christianity is a religion of reaction. That is why we lose them when they get to High School. They see Christianity as a religious straitjacket from which they must escape if they are to have any fun. If only we could keep the wonder of fellowship with Jesus Christ before our young people!
The religious regulation approach to Christianity is all wrong: "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!" This shows us that we do not understand our death with Christ. To revert to legalism is to return to childlike behavior -- thinking that God will be pleased by our negative approach to life.
********************************
I remember I had to recite the 13th chapter of Corinthians in "BS" I will never forget the verse that says "When I became a man I put away childish things. If you are really honest with yourself the NTCC is full of child-like behavior. I'm not condemning just clarifying, as a grown man you can't make any real or long term decisions for you or your family.
I'm so free and for the first time growing in the grace and knowledge of my Lord Jesus Christ.
Spending time with my treasure, my redeemer lives!!!
I pray that you would run as fast and as far as you can from the NTCC. Tom Wright you are wrong on so many different levels where do we begin and David Ransom I'm so sorry that I got you involved with this mess; I want you to know that you can have a real and meaningful relationship with Jesus outside those prison walls. David if you’re reading this please contact me.
I hope and pray that we may all discover the riches of God's amazing grace.
Hey Jeff,
I enjoyed our conversation the other day, take care my friend…
Larry Travis “The Hawaiian bunch” 1979-81
Don and Ange said, "List of things to bring to Fellowship Meeting at Jeff's place:"
That list is hilarious! Thanks for sharing.
L Travis, great post. Wow!
Hello, Brother Rendla. Welcome to the land of the living. Living free under the Grace of Almighty God that is! You and your family will soon see that the more distance that you put between you and that "cult", the happier you'll be.
You said in your post that you had called Rev. Olson and "He asked me if he did anything to harm me, and I said he had not, but on the contrary, Rev Olson has been a blessing to me and my family as much as he could."
The conversation that I had with him when I left was similar. As I thought about it, the answer to his question is, Yes, you have! You have harmed us all because you have known and seen the abuses of that sociopath, RWD, and never stood up for the brethren and said enough is enough. Instead you have condoned it and defended it all these years. Shame on you, Rev. Olson! You and every other so-called leader in that crooked org. of yours is guilty of the abuses. Judgment is coming and you, right along with your demagogue, will be there answering for all of the lives that you have caused harm to.
I'm out!
mdr
Frank Rendla wrote...
Where are the fellowship meetings? The reason given was because of the crazy things being preached at the monthly gatherings. So we cannot trust a seminary-trained, licensed minister to feed us spiritually? Really?
Jeff said...
That people, is very telling. I've been saying it all along. The NTCC leadership does not trust New Testament Christian Church Pastors. They expect you to trust them. It's the same thing with the escrow accounts. They expect you to trust that they won't misuse the money but they don't trust you with the money.
Well as far as the fellowship meetings go, I hadn't heard it put like that before. I believe they meant that they don't trust the pastors but I'm sure there is more to it. They want to keep down dialogue between churches. Cut off fellowship meetings and you accomplish exactly that. They don't want stories like Frank Rendla's to get out by word of mouth. They can control the pastors but they can't control these blogs. The ironic part is that the NTCC leadership, i.e. Double Standard Davis and Conniving Kekel has done more damage behind the pulpit than all their pastors put together. They don't trust what NTCC pastors preach? Did you get that NTCC Pastors? Did you read what Bro. Rendla wrote?
You want to talk about "crazy things" being preached? Just go to conference and listen to Kekel and Davis for a while and you'll hear more craziness than you can find in a mental ward. Good grief, if that ain't the pot calling the kettle black. I've heard Olson say some off the wall stuff also.
NTCC Pastors: The leadership just wants to control everything you guys do and they don't trust you a bit, hence Bro Rendla's testimony about fellowship meetings. NTCC pastors are like puppy dogs on a leash. You NTCC pastors really ought to consider this part of Bro Rendla's statement. Bro Rendla was right on the money with that one.
Jeff
MDR said,
"Welcome to the land of the living. Living free under the Grace of Almighty God that is!"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=11BQQvVy8LI
We had the power all along to live under grace!
This message is for any NTCC Leader and Pastor.
Bro. Rendla, the Reeds, myself and many others that I know have given the same reasons for leaving.
AND IT IS NOT TO LIVE IN SIN!!!
1. Love, grace, and mercy has been completely ignored in the process of building a big church.
2. We give our all to the work of the Lord and you still say it isn't good enough and that we are failures. While many of you have never gone out and done what you are asking us to do. Try doing it without helpers and see how far you get.
3. No fellowship. We need friends!!! Friends that we see more than twice a year.
If you expect to repent as an organization and I hope that you do then you must Love people and show God's grace.
As I stated in an earlier post, when someone begins to depend on God's grace then they will realize that NTCC and they do not agree.
Bro. Rendla and I were in NTCS during the same time and he was deployed to Bosnia with my wife in the mid 90's.
Email me Frank at ebb702@yahoo.com and I will give you my phone number.
God Bless you and your family during this time of transistion. I DON'T regret it for a second, but it is nice to talk to someone that is exactly where you are in the transition.
Bro. Bellamy
3. No fellowship. We need friends!!! Friends that we see more than twice a year.
A HUGE step you can make while in one of the ntcc "works" is joining A group,activity that does not have the ntcc in it. I first joined a Homeschool Christian co-op,a ministers wives yahoo group(not ntcc),then I joined a Moms club for my children. OUTSIDERS! Begin to make friends outside of ntcc. You will find there not the big bad boogieman that ntcc tries to portray folks that are outside of ntcc as SINNERS! I had No one when we were in MN!Once I started to make friends,it helped my sanity out!
I once told a sister that is still in ntcc that I had joined the Moms club. I got silence on the other end. Thinking I had done something wrong. I asked sister Kinson if a book club is wrong,or the moms club. She said,is it a SIN? I said no. Her reply,then all is good! Even going bowling is not a sin or eating at applebee's on a friday night,gasp!!Good grief the things that Mike K. comes up with. To bring on FALSE convictions. So you think you have to feel bad about doing activities that bring you enjoyment! Start living YOUR OWN LIFE! And that fog will lift,trust me!
April
if anyone needs some encouragment or needs some focus
here's a wonderful song
http://youtu.be/Pxy8dVPUjq0
A common theme has reoccurred quite often here lately. People who leave the NTCC seem to unanimously say that they now have really learned what Gods grace is all about. They speak of finding comfort with God and having a far better understanding of his grace. Each person is saying that.
I mainly talk about how much better your "LIFE" will be when you leave the NTCC but lately most everyone has been writing about how much better their relationship with God has become now that they've left the NTCC. It seems like a no brainer to me. I will guarantee that your life will become more enjoyable when you leave the NTCC. I have better friends by far, a better job by far, more money, my kids are prospering and doing absolutely great in school. Many other people have reported having a far better relationship with God.
Knowing all this, what is the point of continuing to put up with all that garbage? Other than my boss at work, (who I have no problem with) I'm my own man. I don't have to follow a bunch of man made rules which get broke all the time by the very NTCC leaders who dreamed the rules up. I don't have some hypocrite trying to guilt trip me because taking care of my family is as important as taking care of their church sign. The NTCC is not going to take care of me or my family so why in the world should I waste my time trying to take care of them? Davis has more money then I'll ever dream of and I'm supposed to give my hard earned money to maintain his church building? Let him spend his own money on a church sign and pews.
The days of lining the pockets of the two millionaires Davis and Kekel are over. I'm taking care of my family now cause once again, the NTCC ain't going to do it. Bro Rendla was pioneering a church and I'll guarantee he was struggling financially when he quit his job to go full time. He was probably struggling before his quit his job. He didn't tell me this but I strongly suspect the NTCC provided little or no monetary help. So that is what being a church going Christian is all about? Lining the pockets of the rich while you get yet more poverty stricken? Are you kidding me? Really? Not according to the Bible I read. Davis and Kekel have their ministers hoodwinked. If you can't see that you are blind. You better start taking care of your own family. I'm going to use an NTCC line on this one. If you are not taking care of your family you aren't even saved. If you let the NTCC convince you to quit jobs and not work when you should be, and you are broke? You aren't even saved.
1 Tim 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
You ain't even saved according to the Bible. You are worse than an infidel. I'm just quoting the Bible, I didn't write it. When the NTCC leadership tells you to quit your job, or move when you can't afford to, or pioneer a church at your own expense while sending all kinds of money to Graham which makes you more broke, they are making you SIN!!!! The Bible says you are worse than an infidel. I'm not talking about being rich but if you don't know how you are going to keep the lights on. or how you are going to get to conference, then you are too broke and you are not "providing for your own".
STOP LETTING THE NTCC LEADERSHIP COMPEL YOU TO NEGLECT YOUR OWN FAMILY WHILE YOU DO NO MORE THAN WORK TO PURCHASE R.W. DAVIS YET ANOTHER CHURCH BUILDING THAT YOU WILL NEVER OWN.
I've been writing this for years now but people have to learn the hard way. You better wake up people before you waste another 2, 5, or 10 years doing nothing that will ever benefit you, your family or God. Flee the NTCC.
Jeff
Well it doesn't look like Grant will have much of a kingdom to inherent once he graduates from college!
Operation Expose NTCC is a go! God bless you Bro. Rendla
Don and Ange, loved the list for fellowship meeting, you have to add baseball too.
We use to have so much fun during our picnics. Even sinners use to comment how much fun they had being around Christians.
Matt,
When Greg and I were on the phone with Rev. Olson. I felt insulted when he told me to remember the song I sang at the Phoenix Conference to Rev. Davis. I thought to myself, what does this have to do with my future? I sang the song as unto the Lord, but not to worship the man. Yes, the Lord used him to help shape my life. But it seemed to Rev. Olson that I owed the man my life. I felt that he was
telling me, I was singing a lie if I left the church. I agree with you 100% that he shares the blame of helping to destroy innocent lives. He's been an enabler, certainly not at all like Pop Gaylord who stood up for ministers. Rev. Davis use to get upset with Pop, when he would go to bat for a minister. Pop use to tell us things, that he didn't agree with some of the rules.
I don't think I've met you Bro. Rendla. I'm so glad that the Lord brought you out, and you were able to see for yourself what we have all been through. As Greg would say "still living the dream".
God bless everyone!
Deborah Shunk aka Sis Blumenthal
Deb said:
"Don and Ange, loved the list for fellowship meeting, you have to add baseball too."
Don and Ange said:
21. Baseball - Just don't put your baseball diamond in close proximity to Jeff's House or Car.
In the early 80's we used to have a really fun time at fellowship meetings. One time we were all playing volleyball and guess who pulled up in their motor home? None other than the real estate mogul himself. We all thought, wow, look at the really cool Motor Home, Rev. Davis must be really be cool he likes to go camping and have fun. He quickly put an end to the game just as we were beginning to enjoy ourselves. How hypocritical is that? Drive up in a recreational vehicle that costs more than the double wide trailer that we were living in called a Christian Servicemen's home like the grinch who stole Christmas and tell us that volleyball is worldly. We ought to be reading our bibles and fellowshipping.
We ended up sitting around in the living room in silence hoping rwd would say something, so we could hang on his every word, but he never said much of anything.
Believe it or not folks, back in the early 80's this was a cult tactic. They didn't want to see us having fun. They remind me of my step father when I was groing up. I'd be watching Star Trek at 4pm and thoroughly enjoying my teenage life and you'd hear him pull in the garage. You would dread the sound of each step coming up the stairwell and into the kitchen. When he got into the living room he would walk straight over to the TV and switch it to the news. What a buzz kill. The ntcc is the same way. They wanted us to endure our salvation. There is no justification for this stuff.
Don and Ange
Don and Ange said "We ended up sitting around in the living room in silence hoping rwd would say something, so we could hang on his every word, but he never said much of anything. "
Thanks for sharing that. I always thought I was missing out on something when they banished the women to another room to talk about recipes and cleaning. You couldn't talk much about your children because the ones without kids treated you like a compromiser. I was made to feel like they were "Super Christians" because they didn't have children to take away their commitment to the church. So now I know that there was a bunch of hot air being blown in both rooms.
F.E. Rendla said "She is still wearing skirts and will continue to do so because of personal example. "
To Mrs. Rendla (or Sis. Rendla):
I'm not sure how you like to be addressed since NTCC is so funny about who you call brother and sister once you leave. I found out that my wearing a floor length skirt with socks and gym shoes made me look like a dork. People told me so. I still dress modestly, but not to NTCC's standards. I've had more people ask me where I go to church and be interested in worshipping where I worship simply because of my conversation and the way I carry myself. It seems that my "puritan" way of dressing did more to drive people away than to attract them. I was told this face to face by two people. I'm by no means suggesting you become a Victoria Secrets model. I just wanted to share my post-NTCC clothing experience with you. Just do what makes you feel happy and pretty.
Anon posted
www.youtube.com/watch?v=11BQQvVy8LI
"We had the power all along to live under grace!"
Hey, folks! This is so fitting to use a video clip of the Wizard of Oz to demonstrate a point. I've have often thought of Rdub as the wizard. He has this outward appearance of someone great, but when you look behind the curtain you see him for what he really is and that is a very, very small person.
Hey Deb. In one respect or another, R.W. Davis shaped all over our lives. If not directly (which I'm sure would have been the case in your life), through his pastors. There was some good and that I can't deny. The problem is, the bad far outweighed the good. For every sin I was compelled to repent of while in the NTCC, the NTCC leadership created an attitude in me which contained twice that many sins. They molded in me a lifestyle which contained another big group of sins.
Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
That is what the NTCC does to you and you don't even know it. We were judgmental, inconsiderate, often rude, lacking compassion, practicing some notable false doctrines and placing those same burdens on our converts. We often neglected our families, we didn't even consider the fatherless, the widow or the poor. We were basically of little or no good whatsoever to society. Please everyone consider what I'm saying here.
The nastiest, most inconsiderate, judgmental people I've ever met in my life have been certain NTCC pastors! Quite a few I might add and I am dead serious. Some of these guys aren't nice guys at all. Whatever niceness they show is fake to the max. They are like spoiled children who when they don't get their way, can get really nasty behind the pulpit and carry that same attitude right into the church. Looking at you all mean and mad, not wanting to even talk to you and often blasting you just because "YOU DIDN'T DO WHAT THEY WANTED YOU TO"!!! Like they were your mother or something.
And guess what the result would be. We periodically found ourselves acting the same way and it wasn't nice, loving, or even decent. The NTCC made most of us inconsiderate jerks who lacked common decency. And to top it all off, many, or most of us became company/yes men who didn't or wouldn't think for ourselves and couldn't even be used by God because of our blind loyalty to Old Double Standard Davis and his henchmen.
Think about that for a while.
Deb, I appreciate the article. Please say Hi to Greg.
Sincerely,
Jeff
Anon said....
I've have often thought of Rdub as the wizard.
Jeff said...
Boy, ain't that the truth. You are exactly right on the money with that one. Let me add to it. RDUB is a cross between the wizard on the Wizard of Oz and the Greedy Sheriff of Nottingham in the Robin Hood Story, where he took all the poor peoples money and oppressed them.
Jeff
The NTCC missed the most important Christian virtue, loving one another.
The two greatest commands is love.
Hey LT! It's good to see you; (so to speak). You know what I'm saying. It was great talking to you the other day. Thanks for the advise and guidance. Larry Travis gave me some of the best "Spiritual Guidance" I've had in a while. The dude ain't some judgmental jerk. He love the Lord and he wants to share it with others but he ain't trying to cram it down their throat. I wish the best for him and I hope he walks the streets of gold. I hope the same for old RWD but unless the bible is wrong, he might want to start caring for someone other than himself or his immediate family. Caring for people involves more than just preaching judgment on everyone while teaching them how to make money off of everyone else.
For a change, RWD ought to try a little compassion, common decency, brotherly love, acting like he cares for people other than his immediate family, act like people other than his immediate family are his friends, try talking to people without feeling that he needs to be the Center of everyone's conversation while thinking that everyone should want his advise and if they don't, he takes it personally. RWD is just a jerk, so if he is heading for heaven, a lot of us shouldn't have any problem gettin there.
Love the Lord thy God:
RDUB love two things, control and money.
Love thy neighbor:
RDUB only loves his neighbor's money and if you don't like it there is the doors. He said it himself. His church is a business that revolves around money and numbers. Don't soul win poor folks, they can't bring anything to the table. Heaven is only going to be inhabited by people, who on this earth have ready access to money.
If RDUB wants to get saved, he might want to take some of Larry Travis' advice. LOVE is what it's all about Baby.
Jeff
"Thanks for sharing that. I always thought I was missing out on something when they banished the women to another room to talk about recipes and cleaning."
Hah, you weren't missing a thing; I'd rather get a recipe any day than listen to the Great Bloviator. I spent enough time hanging on his vapid monologue up at that "special" table in the fellowship hall to know. Most everything he said revolved around either politics or business, with the occasional preacher war story and dirty joke thrown in for variety.
Don, I know what you mean about that grinch persona too. He invited us "up to the big house" once, right after I got to BS. I was excited to be in the presence of this alleged great man of God, and tried to engage him in some normal conversation sitting in his living room. I said something like, "So, you're from North Carolina! My parents are living there, blah blah blah." Just normal small talk that ordinary people engage in when they're trying to get to know one another. I didn't understand that he doesn't want his marks to know him. He didn't even respond to me. I sat there like a fool, looking at him expectantly, and all he did was roll his eyes to the ceiling, stick a bored look on his mug, and start whistling.
Real apostolic behavior. He was always playing headgames like that, trying either intimidate people, or else run them off (since he'd rather those who refuse to be controlled not stick around at all).
Vic said:
"Real apostolic behavior. He was always playing headgames like that, trying either intimidate people, or else run them off (since he'd rather those who refuse to be controlled not stick around at all)."
Don and Ange said:
He was all about head games. We used to have staring contests. Not a word was said. It was extremely weird and uncomfortable. I felt if I didn't look rwd in the eye that he'd think there was something wrong with me. He'd stare and hold his gaze like he was trying to look inside you but it really was just a mind game. I always returned stared back and sometimes I'd win and other times he'd win. I'm not sure what other people thought but it sure did seem out of place and uncomfortable. People might suggest that I was convicted and that's why I felt uncomfortable, but I have to say during those staring matches where not a word was said, I was prayed up. I was doing everything the ntcc way and if I had sinned, I had long since repented.
The maddest I think I had ever seen rwd was in the Servicemen's home in Colorado Springs. My co-worker who had just started coming to church said something to him that made us all cringe and wait for lightning bolts to come down out of heaven. When rwd refused a piece of cake that was offered to him, she laughed and asked, Are you trying to watch your girlish figure? His face turned three shades of red and you could tell he was fuming inside. I felt like melting into the walls and others felt the same I'm sure. I think he really had to pray through on that one because this person had just started coming out to church.
This man we revered as an extension of God Himself. This was what he craved. Undying loyalty and trust. It was a one-way street. There wasn't any loyalty or trust ever returned to us. I wish I could go back in time and really ask rwd some pointed questions and give him a piece of my mind. I wonder if anyone has ever jacked rwd up in his life. At this point in his life it wouldn't do him any good.
Don and Ange
Don and Ange wrote...
When rwd refused a piece of cake that was offered to him, she laughed and asked, Are you trying to watch your girlish figure?
Jeff said...
Good training for the old grouch.
Jeff
"When rwd refused a piece of cake that was offered to him, she laughed and asked, Are you trying to watch your girlish figure?"
Well, didn't you brief her first? Everyone knows that RW doesn't like cake-he likes PIE! This was drilled into us so that we'd never make that faux pas.
I'd like to give him a pie in the face.
Don said "When rwd refused a piece of cake that was offered to him,"
Ange says,
I love how God works. I had just been thinking about this incident the other day; but I never said anything to Don about it. =D
I too remember that incident. rdub did not simply refuse a piece of cake that day. He growled and snapped and scowled. My weak attempt at levity to lighten the situation instead turned the wrath of kahn from nichelle tieman onto myself. It was rw's brusque and surly beastly mannerism up to and including this incident that told me he was mean and someone not worth having in your life.
As I said before, davis' demeanor from the time he arrived in Colorado Springs was mean and rude. I knew he was there to deal with nichelle's adulterous affair with Don. Yet I could not understand his approach. In retrospect, I believe I was correct. davis' truly did not help the Tieman's one iota. He preached condemnation, "What's in Your Books?" without forgiveness. And yet davis in the past was forced at gunpoint into a church, onto his knees, and told "You better pray!"; but years later davis was preaching condemnation in Colorado Springs, overriding the Holy Ghost's query, "What's in YOUR books???"
No wonder there was no real repentance, no change in the relationship between david (sr.) and nichelle tieman. They got no marital counsel. No pastoral compassion.
Instead they got the wrath of davis, glaring over a pubic hair on his plate. Perhaps God was reminding davis of rdub's sin???
(Incidentally, at the time, I was blissfully unaware of the pubic hair on the plate. Wouldn't common sense dictate alerting others so they would not partake of the pubic cake? But noooo davis just gives me a look that would kill [the classic gassy-puss at its worst] and let's everyone else eat the you know what! Ewww. Gross!)
Meanwhile tieaman's get moved, the merciful rumor being circulated that kids are no longer allowed in the servicemens' homes; (but they were as was evident with the Bradeens and Taylors and others)... and life goes on unchanged for the tiemans. No help. No repentance. Just a future of jones-ing for a board membership (accomplished) while nichelle is saying how bad david (sr.) was in bed... ahem.
This ugly story truly shows how davis loves surrounding himself with people that he has the dirt on. Of course, now that the story is pub(l)ic, davis really can't hold it over their heads anymore. The tieman's are free to repent without fear. It would be wise. It might even affect some humility. No more need to act like they know more than anyone else. No more need to look down on others. Welcome to the ranks of the sinners and, at your discretion, the forgiven.
Ange
RWD likes this, RWD likes that. He likes to be waited on hand and foot. He is a spoiled brat. Tell him to fix his coffee himself and get his own pie. I'm beginning to believe that is the best way to describe RDUB. Spoiled Brat!!! The Kekels are spoiled also. Hence having so many people come over to clean their house.
These kind of people are of the lowest character.
Jeff
Pubic hair on a plate...Sound like Nichelle had some foreplay before the blowout meeting with RWD...Should have saved it for DNA evidence...
Don said..."And yet davis in the past was forced at gunpoint into a church, onto his knees, and told "You better pray!""
Do you have a timeframe and location for when this happened? I know Durek mentioned something about there being a meeting in St. Louis about this but it would be great to get some dates, times, places, and names.
Thanks for sharing that. I always thought I was missing out on something when they banished the women to another room to talk about recipes and cleaning. You couldn't talk much about your children because the ones without kids treated you like a compromiser. I was made to feel like they were "Super Christians" because they didn't have children to take away their commitment to the church. So now I know that there was a bunch of hot air being blown in both rooms.
Flashback! I used to be so sick of the foo,foo conversation the ladies in ntcc carried on. The lastest pleated dress sale at the Bon,did you get that coupon out of the paper,oh what a deal I got,see you at the next thrift store sale,what did you cook for supper,share your recipe,yadda,yadda! No nonsense,fluff talk. I grew up with talk around the table was world events. I knew who was running for president when Reagan and Bush ran! I NEVER talked about the stuff we talked about in ntcc. And if you tried to bring up the news with another sister. You would get that glassed over look. Oh,I am to busy to read a newspaper or listen to the radio. That is the ONLY outlets we had. Unless like us,we did have the internet back in 99,2000!GASP!
I am so,so,so thankful to be out of that horrible atmosphere. I can talk deeper subjects and not PRETEND to be a ninny with no brain! Women in ntcc are to become weak female's. We can't do anything on our own!
Then there was those single ladies. Thought they were the super Christian wives's. Doing Gods work,not having kids. When Most of them deep down wanted to have a baby. Look at the butlers,having a baby much older! there ONE income was not stretched as far as those of us that had kids.See them with there nice purse and yucky matching shoes(everthing has to match) It NEVER made me wish I never had my children. I knew they were the one's missing out on the joys of being a parent.
April
Anon said, "Pubic hair on a plate."
Don and Ange say,
Maybe we should call the pubic hair on a plate incident pubie-gate?
On another note:
It wasn't until Ange was in bible school that she heard the rest of that hairy story. Of course names were not mentioned; but rw was ranting about someone serving him a piece of cake with a pubic hair on the plate and someone asking him if he was trying to watch his girlish figure...
Unless there is someone else out there who dared ask davis such a thing, we feel that this links the pubic hair to the incident described earlier.
By the way, hair falls out. It is not hard to imagine a random hair falling onto the floor, getting swept up in a breeze and landing on a cake pan in a bottom drawer of an oven. Add a crazy busy servicemen's home schedule, carelessly overlooking a random hair on a plate is conceivable.
But davis has gone up to numerous ntcc men and imitated plucking out some pubic hair, waving it under the distressed church member's nose while warning, "Women will try to get you with this". It is a bizarre way for a so-called holiness preacher to warn against the typical lust of the flesh battles that all believers will face. We do think it would be just like God to, so to speak, put that pubic hair back in davis' face.
Honestly, the whole situation was, in our opinion, handled without one shred of tact or mercy and was a completely unsuccessful mission from a pastoral perspective. Frankly, davis did more harm than good. If Pop Gaylord had come to town, tieman's probably would have repented then and there, Don would have married Ange in the nineties, and at least one of us would have maintained our military career. Instead, proud davis showed up and really made a mess of everything.
We gotta say, our lives would have been much better had we never met r w davis. Truly we are better off without him!
Don and Ange
Anonymous asked...
Do you have a time frame and location for when this happened? I know Durek mentioned something about there being a meeting in St. Louis about this but it would be great to get some dates, times, places, and names.
Jeff said...
A while back Durek mentioned something about Davis being advised by some of his pears to get out of town until the smoke cleared. He said there had been allegations of adultery and things were getting pretty hairy for Davis during that time. He didn't go into specifics about the situation other than the allegations had come for about "THREE" different women. These things took place over three decades ago.
Having said that, it would take a bunch of digging around and frankly, this late in the game, it's of little significance. One lady in the church wrote a letter claiming that RWD was messing with her when she was married and she said that RWD would give her money and they would have sex. I specifically read the letter myself and I know the ladies name and her story seems quite credible. Her letter was posted on a public/private forum and hundreds of people read it. She included her full name, her husbands name and she gave "details".
The point being is that RWD has a history of allegations of sexual impropriety imposed against him. We don't know, but he might even be Tanya's real dad? Some have "speculated as such" saying they look alike. Verna certainly ain't Tanya's real mom as Tanya is Filipino. Once again I don't think much of that matters. I personally could care less what the guy did in that regard. None of that effected me directly.
What did effect me were certain NTCC doctrines and rules which have been proven to be false such as the NTCC's mandate that women don't work. Keepers at home means to be a "good house keeper". I doesn't mean a woman can't work outside the home like the lady in Pro 31 did! Saying that my daughter couldn't participate in gym class while Hunt's wife was going to Smith gym on Ft. Benning wearing booty hugger spandex tights. That also effected me and more specifically my family because I was stupid enough to follow their stupid rules. Traveling all over creation to attend a one hour church service once a month on Saturday just to have them cancel the whole fellowship meeting thing altogether because they don't trust their pastors and they want to keep down talk!!!
Yep, Davis could have all the affairs he wanted as far as I'm concerned and that is between him and the Lord. So far, no one who has left the NTCC has cited RWD's shady history as their reason for leaving. The lack of real love, compassion, and caring seems to be the main reason people leave and the other reason most often cited is the shady business and money practices. Davis is one seriously shady crook and everyone at this point should be able to see that clearly.
Jeff
Jeff said..."Her letter was posted on a public/private forum and hundreds of people read it. She included her full name, her husbands name and she gave "details"."
Unless it was FactNet, which public or private forum do you mean? Nothing you could redact and put on Slideshare?
Jeff said, "The lack of real love, compassion, and caring seems to be the main reason people leave..."
Bingo. That was the point why davis' adultery was brought up here. Too hypocritical to ride the tiemans while having skeletons in his own closet.
Rendla first put it all on NTCC, but when it rolled up snake eyes he had to go. When you're with the NTCC, the house always wins...
Anonymous said...
Unless it was FactNet, which public or private forum do you mean? Nothing you could redact and put on Slideshare?
Jeff said...
It wasn't factnet and I'm not at liberty to share anymore details so there is no need to ask. If you had access to this forum, (which lots of people did) you would have been able to read the letter because it was posted for all to see.
Jeff
Anonymous said,
"Nothing you could redact and put on Slideshare?"
Sounds like the very public comment made here, sans (without) names.
Well there you have it.
Jeff
Jeff said..."It wasn't factnet and I'm not at liberty to share anymore details so there is no need to ask. If you had access to this forum, (which lots of people did) you would have been able to read the letter because it was posted for all to see."
I understand not wanting to share any details of the person involved but I guess this was a forum that was invitation only. Never saw that document so I guess I'm not part of the "in crowd". Can you at least give out the Forum Name?
Don linked to the comment made on his blog and it had "...my husband was employed by davis and so he knew where he was at all times"
So this was a woman that knew Davis as a teenager, had advances towards her at that time, got married and her husband either worked in the Building Crew/Maintenance/Office for NTCC and RWD came over at those times that her husband was away. When she told Olson it was swept under the rug and she was told to leave.
There you have it and I won't divulge anymore info unless you call me and then we'll see. I don't even know who you are? You read what I read so it would appear that your analysis is how it reads. You seem to understand it the same way I do based on what was written.
Jeff
Can anyone confirm anymore recent departures? Also, Jeff you had mentioned that you had a story from someone and you were waiting for them to put stuff together. I know that June has been an action packed month with this blog and people learned about the Bellamy's, Reed's, and Rendla's leaving. They eached mentioned the reasons for their leaving and some details about what they found out and how they were treated.
Don And Ange said,
"Instead they got the wrath of davis, glaring over a pubic hair on his plate.
How unoriginal. he got that idea from clarence thomas!
Anon asked...
Also, Jeff you had mentioned that you had a story from someone and you were waiting for them to put stuff together.
Jeff said...
Yes I'm still waiting on an email on that one. It should be coming but I'm not sure when. I also don't know of anymore recent departures. I've heard rumors, but I don't like to go on those. When they are wrong, they make this blog less credible.
Jeff
"Also, Jeff you had mentioned that you had a story from someone and you were waiting for them to put stuff together."
Good Grief Anonymous! You're like a kid bugging a parent "But you said I could go to the park. When are we going? Huh? Huh? Huh? When?" Jeff might not be bothered by your constant pestering about this person's information, but it's beginning to drive me nuts.
"Can the institution prosper?"
Although I'm sure this is a rhetorical question....I'd like to answer anyway.....No it can't!
People are walking away from NTCC for pretty much the same reasons, lack of; Grace, Love, Freedom etc. (the "lack of" list is extremely long, b-t-w)
How can God bless this?
Brother & Sis Rendla,
David & I wish you well on your new journey, relaxing in the grace of God is the best!
God Bless You Both
Sooo Rendla,
Let's analyze some things here. A year ago you quit your job and went full time for NTCC. Your church even throws you a party. A year later, you still have the same incomplete schedule of services and no extra church members to show for your full-time status. You talk to the people whose brilliant, last-ditch effort, totally sell-out idea this was and they give you that "thousand mile stare". How dare they treat you that way when you were doing this all for them? Sooo, you come up with all these issues you have with the church, knowing full well they have no acceptable answer. Ah ha! You've found a way out of this mess you've made for yourself. You get to go back to work to take care of your family again and don't lose face by doing so while still an NTCC minister. Is that about right? Me thinks so.
Ununeemus
"A year later, you still have the same incomplete schedule of services..."
So he's a failure because he didn't want to load church members down with more plate-passing, time-robbing, soul-sucking "church" services? Maybe the saner schedule gave him enough time to think through the fact that he was being exploited by a bunch of Pharisees.
It's always the same: failure to meet RW's definition of success is always because one just didn't "work it." That's baloney. It's his system that's broken. Think about it: if you have a business that's losing money, working the same system harder will only cause it to decline faster. There is no lack of effort; these guys are just sick of spinning their wheels trying to "make it happen."
The harder these preachers try to stay afloat, the heavier they get. The best solution is to get out of the water and stop struggling to hold up NTCC's sinking ship before it sucks you down with it.
Yep Vic,
The ntcc's system is just like quicksand. The harder you struggle to save yourself and the ones you love, the deeper you sink into the muck and the mire.
Hey, I got a plan. Let's blame ourselves for this mess. That way we can not only absolve the ntcc from any wrong doing but we can live in condemnation for the rest of our lives.
This is what the ntcc leadership wants and expects. This agenda of blaming individuals for the broken system is not working any more. Leadership starts at the top. Ununeemus and the leaders of the ntcc want to blame the individual pastors for thier own failure to lead by example. Until the ntcc leadership takes personal responsibility for their own gross negligence and double standards they have created, they will continue to set people up for failure and then laugh at them and blame them when they fail.
Don and Ange
Anonymous said...
Sooo Rendla,
Let's analyze some things here. A year ago you quit your job and went full time for NTCC. Your church even throws you a party. A year later, you still have the same incomplete schedule of services and no extra church members to show for your full-time status. You talk to the people whose brilliant, last-ditch effort, totally sell-out idea this was and they give you that "thousand mile stare". How dare they treat you that way when you were doing this all for them? Sooo, you come up with all these issues you have with the church, knowing full well they have no acceptable answer. Ah ha! You've found a way out of this mess you've made for yourself. You get to go back to work to take care of your family again and don't lose face by doing so while still an NTCC minister. Is that about right? Me thinks so.
Bro. Bellamy says...
Lets analyze what you have said anonymous...
"A year ago you quit your job and went full time for NTCC. Your church even throws you a party. A year later, you still have the same incomplete schedule of services and no extra church members to show for your full-time status."
-In my quest to find another church, I have found that most churches have only 2 none more than 3 services a week and that includes Bible Study. All of the Pastors are full-time.
-If you want to measure success by the increasing numbers then why was Fall Conference 2010 only half full on the men's side? There were more women and kids than there were of men.
Why is it that so many people have left NTCC in the last few years to include relatives of the Board members?
Why are there those that are in NTCC now because they have been in so long, but acknowledge all of the double standards and false teachings? Some have called me and said they agree with me and have thought many times of leaving themselves.
"You talk to the people whose brilliant, last-ditch effort, totally sell-out idea this was and they give you that "thousand mile stare". How dare they treat you that way when you were doing this all for them?"
-I don't know who 'they' are, but how many times have NTCC preachers been rebuked for loving a job or house more than they love God and the ministry?
-Who is a sell out? Is it a preacher that wanted to give his best for the church? Or is it NTCC that has sold out their preachers and have them give their all to the work of God, pay tithe to Graham, supplement the churches income to pay the bills, pay to go to conference, sacrifice having children, sacrifice their relationship with their spouse, break ties with their family, move around like Gypsies, and then no help from the NTCC leadership who flip flop worse than John Kerry or Bill Clinton?
(It wasn't a rule before it was a rule- How do you define rule?)
"Sooo, you come up with all these issues you have with the church, knowing full well they have no acceptable answer."
-He didn't have to come up with issues for the church, the church already had these issues, and their only answer is you are in a battle or the devil is lieing to you. (The devil must be lieing to hundreds of people and all are listening)
"Ah ha! You've found a way out of this mess you've made for yourself. You get to go back to work to take care of your family again and don't lose face by doing so while still an NTCC minister. Is that about right? Me thinks so."
-The mess that he has found a way out of is NTCC.
Why is it that the preachers and pastors always get blamed and not the NTCC leaders?
How can a board member come to a preacher's house and find that he doesn't have furniture and not enough money even to invite the board member to dinner and go back with to Graham and not demand policies to be changed? (This just happened to the man that replaced me here in Cleveland.)
As I have said before the NTCC leadership does not care about its preachers.
Bro. Bellamy
The NTCC systems SUCKS. RWD SUCKS.
Me thinks so. Me knows so.
Jeff
Bro Bellamy said...
-Who is a sell out? Is it a preacher that wanted to give his best for the church? Or is it NTCC that has sold out their preachers and have them give their all to the work of God, pay tithe to Graham, supplement the churches income to pay the bills, pay to go to conference, sacrifice having children, sacrifice their relationship with their spouse, break ties with their family, move around like Gypsies, and then no help from the NTCC leadership who flip flop worse than John Kerry or Bill Clinton?
Jeff Collins said...
PREACH BROTHER!!!!! PREACH!!! I would like to see one person come on this blog and say that Bro Bellamy is lying. Know the truth and the truth shall set you free. Every last word that man wrote is the truth and EVERYONE knows it. And the Church said... AMEN!!!!
Jeff
Bro Bellamy said...
As I have said before the NTCC leadership does not care about its preachers.
Jeff said...
Thats right. I've been saying that for years now and nothing has changed. It's a sad state of affairs in the NTCC.
Jeff
It's funny when you do a Google search for the made up name or word "Ununeemus" it suggests Unanimous. Those that have left the NTCC are in full agreement about these things that Bellamy and others have said on this blog. Ununeemus needs to get his head out of the sand and quit using his little knowledge about what Rendla went through against him. Ununeemus is probably someone in his fellowship group or maybe even a errand boy for MCK. If he was such a Christian, then why did he never try to help his brother? Another example of NTCC fakeness...
Bro Rendla
Ununeemus,
A year ago you quit your job and went full time for NTCC. I did it for God and He provided for me and my family, so much so, that we could devote a whole blog to the glorious testimonies of His deliverance.
A year later, you still have the same incomplete schedule of services and no extra church members to show for your full-time status. Not quite true, we had above 450 guests in four years, but getting anyone to stay, well, appears to be a universal problem. Schedule: The org website is broken and has been out of date for months, so it was not showing the last full schedule we had. Of course, that didn’t show the soul-winning and prayer meetings, both of which we had more than one of each a week.
How dare they treat you that way when you were doing this all for them? “they” didn’t treat me anything but good. I noted that several individuals gave us gifts and we are thankful for all. Also, I did nothing for “them”, but for God. I take issue only with doctrine and the system. Much of it is unbiblical.
Sooo, you come up with all these issues you have with the church, knowing full well they have no acceptable answer. Ah ha! You've found a way out of this mess you've made for yourself.
Mess? Hardly. God has blessed me with time in prayer and scripture and time to think. Every church, made of imperfect people, will not perfectly mirror the perfect God. I am very much included in that. Thank God He made us useful, despite ourselves! When, seeing discrepancies in system versus the scripture, some things you could shrug off, others, it is grounds for separation.
You get to go back to work to take care of your family again and don't lose face by doing so while still an NTCC minister. I would be and am making the same money working a full-time job regardless. I am simply getting ready for the next great adventure God for me, and since His Son gave His blood for me, giving every dime to Him, and every drop of sweat for Him is no big deal.
I posted here because of the doctrinal issues I have, like Martin Luther, right? We all have to be true to our conscience and do what we feel God leads us to. I sincerely hope for reformation. There are hundreds of devoted Christians in NTCC and I hope they worship in the same freedom that Christ purchased for us.
Ununeemus, call or email me if you like. I don’t bite. Not to sound “super-spiritual”, but I am praying for you. I ask you to do the same for me. This is my first and last comment on this blog. God bless all of you. All know how to reach me.
Frank Rendla
"Ununneemus", thank you for sharing all you did. This is a great example of the disgusting attitude leadership and others who have attained show toward ministers laboring around the world in NTCC, not only when they leave, but while they are still in. You get a gold star. If you're not already an overseer or in leadership, I'd say you're well on your way.
LD
"If you're not already an overseer or in leadership, I'd say you're well on your way."
Maybe someplace other than NTCC. They don't want real leaders who ask hard questions, but yes men with rubber stamps and brown noses.
"not that I am trying to be super-spiritual"....
You know, that "super-spiritual" jargon is typically used by church leaders who are intimidated by a mere lay person, it is a bunch of crap. Leaders should welcome men and women who possess gifts given to each one as the HS purposed. Church leaders feel that they must be the ones with all the gifts and it is not biblical in the least. Mr Rendla, I appreciate your true humility and spirituality. May God bless you!
TB
I don't see Rendla in the same light as some here. He said "they" didn't treat me anything but good. I noted that several individuals gave us gifts and we are thankful for all. Also, I did nothing for “them”, but for God. I take issue only with doctrine and the system.
Well that is a little odd being that in his original article he expressed having a problem with "shunning" and he referred to himself. The system and the doctrine didn't shun him. People did. He gives me the impression that he is trying to take the high road but in another sentence he tells a different story. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. They either treated him bad or they didn't. He can't ever please the ntcc leaders so why not stick to your guns and tell it like it is?
Then he writes, This is my first and last comment on this blog. God bless all of you. What is he trying to prove with that statement? That he is more spiritual or better than others on this blog who post all the time? That is the impression that I get and before anyone comes to rebuke me that's my opinion and I'm not double minded. Yeah it's great that he left the ntcc and that he had the guts to post his story but to me it still seems like he has the ntcc mentality.
He spoke of having so much time that he was able to devote a whole blog to God but in the process he puts down this blog by making it clear that he won't post here again. Seems a good bit self righteous to me. I would say this blog has been used by God to help many people.
Now that Rendla has left the ntcc he needs to get the ntcc mentality out of his head. This whole full time minister thing is overrated anyway. Ununeemus actually made a valid point on that one. Rendla went from trying to be full time minister back to having a full time job. I'm sure he didn't flip a coin to make that decision. Especially when he previously said he had a problem with the ntcc placing so much focus on numbers. 450 visitors in 4 years isn't exactly the kind of numbers the ntcc is looking for and I'm sure the ntcc made mention of it which is why he has a problem with the numbers game. Lets get real here.
You will never please these ntcc people Rendla so you might as well tell it like it is. They subtly pushed and pushed for you to go full time when it all didn't add up. There was mention made of that on Rendla's own blog. Mention of there not being evidence that his church could provide for him and his family. His wife wrote it. He never should have tried to be a full time minister in the first place. And when it all didn't work out, they considered him a failure I'm sure. And that is why he has a problem with the shunning, the numbers, and the business of the church.
Rendla was right about those things but he was wrong with this super spiritual attitude like he doesn't have a problem with the ntcc leaders. They are the ones who came up with the numbers thing the false doctrine and the shunning. If you have a problem with all that, which you should, you have a problem with them.
GYO
It is so easy sitting in a classroom shouting, “if you don't like it leave!” Bible school students never stop to think of what that actually means. I can now tell you exactly what that means. It means that if you notice something that isn't quite right your concerns will be ignored and if you persist you can leave. So, did the leadership of NTCC ever really care about us? We were given the answer in Bible School; we just didn't listen.
Marie-Anne Rendla
GYO,
Relax, let God do a work in his life!
TB
Sister Rendla: My wife just read your statement and her immediate response was, "Right on Sister". You hit the nail right on the head. The NTCC leadership didn't really care about you. One of your husbands concerns was right on the money also and I've been saying this for years. What the NTCC leadership cares about is money and as your husband wrote, "numbers".
RWD said that in conference quite plainly. You were only as good to the NTCC as the money and numbers you brought in. I appreciate your insight.
Jeff
"Rendla was right about those things but he was wrong with this super spiritual attitude like he doesn't have a problem with the ntcc leaders."
I can relate. Leaving NTCC is a process. Like April says, you have to get out of it first, and then it will gradually get out of you as "the fog" lifts. I did the whole "high road" dance for years myself, making excuses for these exploiters and framing my departure as mostly a doctrinal dispute. It's a defense mechanism, because it's hard to emotionally handle the truth--that we were the victims of rapacious spiritual thugs who cared nothing for our souls, but duped us into thinking that if anything didn't add up, we were the ones with the problem. They squeezed us hard and pumped us dry, and when we had nothing left, they threw us under the bus. That's the truth, and it's painful.
It was the advent of internet communication that caused me to stop sugar coating NTCC's leadership. Once I heard the hundreds of other tales of abuse and manipulation, it became impossible to maintain any kind of favorable opinion regarding that hierarchy. The magnitude of their criminality is staggering, and the fact that it's largely hidden is testimony to their conniving ways. Joe Olson seems all benign and milk-toasty, but he's done more to prop up the false apostle and persuade others to esteem him than anyone. These NTCC big wheels have seen RW up close and ugly, and they're fine with it, because they know who butters their bread. Isn't it interesting that not a single one of them has left? What work could they find to sustain the lifestyle of ease and comfort to which they're accustomed? They just keep taking the money and keeping their guilty mouths shut.
Be patient with Bro. Rendla. It will all eventually sink in. Maybe someday he'll come back and help warn the next generation of suckers.
Brother Bellamy said,
"Who is a sell out? Is it a preacher that wanted to give his best for the church? Or is it NTCC that has sold out their preachers and have them give their all to the work of God, pay tithe to Graham, supplement the churches income to pay the bills, pay to go to conference, sacrifice having children, sacrifice their relationship with their spouse, break ties with their family, move around like Gypsies, and then no help from the NTCC leadership who flip flop worse than John Kerry or Bill Clinton?
Brother Bellamy, you are the man! Preach on, my brother!!
Let me add...what's worse is coming back to Graham and hearing that brat, Michael, get up behind the pulpit and say, Waj-ya-do with your 90%? The reason you're not blessed like me is because you didn't invest your money like pastor taught.
Puh-leeze! Spare me!
mdr
Hey, Vic, great post! You ought to write a book and title it "Rapacious Thuggery, as Demonstrated by RWD and his Sycophant Followers".
I like your style of writing my brother.
Take care!
mdr
How can a board member come to a preacher's house and find that he doesn't have furniture and not enough money even to invite the board member to dinner and go back with to Graham and not demand policies to be changed?
================================
the answer is because davis,kekel and whomever else don't want to use the profits to help someone.
they will tell that preacher if he needs money that he needs to get people in the church.
This is davis' way of lighting his salesmen for the NTCC MLM (i meant preachers) to get more money so kekel can buy off limit video games for grant.
and so davis and buy a houses and more real estate for the ntcc real estate company.
i was with the guy replacing you ed. he seems like a smart cookie. it leaves me very surprised he is still putting up with this baloney in ntcc.
doug hardy
"Hey, Vic, great post!"
Thanks--it's quite an effective form of therapy, and an excellent way to move on. After swallowing their bilge for so long, it's refreshing to dish up the truth about this counterfeit church and its corrupt leadership.
"You ought to write a book..."
We could each write a dozen books about our experiences with NTCC and not even begin to scratch the surface. For years now one wave after another has emerged on FACTnet and the various blogs, people spilling their guts and telling the world how they were spiritually raped by these users. Even though a big chunk of it has vanished from cyberspace by now, so much remains that it still almost reads like the Gulag Archipelago--a depressing litany of outrages and humiliations perpetrated on the saints by the very ones charged to love and care for them.
Now it appears they just want to change and be normal and pretend they aren't vampires--a benign-sounding chuckle maybe, and some slick talk about the need to "forgive" or "move on" and eschew "bitterness." But until they come clean, they won't be clean, and there is no reason to think they've changed no matter how they've rearranged the furniture.
Vic said....
and there is no reason to think they've changed no matter how they've rearranged the furniture.
Jeff said....
They haven't changed. Too many people who've left recently have reported the exact same types of abuse I experienced years ago when I was still with the NTCC. They may have changed some of their rules but it doesn't appear that they've changed any of their tactics. They still run preachers into the ground while saying they are failures. They still talk down to people. They still try and openly embarrass people. The Reeds testified to the way that RWD talked to Matt and Kekel talked to Debbie. Verbal abuse and deliberate psychological manipulation are still resounding practices within the NTCC.
And yes, in response to an earlier comment made by Vic; leaving the NTCC is a process. It does take some time get the NTCC out of your head. It sure would be a sad state of affairs to see someone leave the NTCC and continue to act the same as the NTCC leadership. Denis seemed to do it; he just changed the church name. HOP is no different than the NTCC. Two different peas from the same pod. Some good dialogue here lately. Hopefully it opens some eyes. I strongly suspect that it will. I perodically like to quote a famous catch phrase made by J. Olson.
"We're Winning".
Jeff
hey vic or anyone,
i used the wayback machine and found some info some of you may want to download / print and keep
http://web.archive.org/web/20090202064358/http://ntccxposed.com/
here's the wayback machine
http://www.archive.org/web/web.php
"hey vic or anyone,
i used the wayback machine and found some info..."
Looks like the link is truncated; can you repost it? Or at least the last part of it.
Is it the old ntccxposed page? I see that's there.
NTCCXPOSED.com is a "Blast from the Past" - Meaning, something or someone that returns after a period of obscurity or absence. It is normally applied to things that that were thought fondly of previously and are making a welcome return - particularly pop songs.
Wow, Bellamy tore up Ununeemus with his comments. Ununeemus must be some kind of third-tier preacher (explanations later), that lives outside of Graham and is a suck-up and RWD wannabe.
I can see him around some table as his wife gets RWD his Maxwell House and a piece of cherry pie. RWD slouches back in his chair with his hands across his stomach and looks down his nose at those gathered around the table. "Yes sir, he just wanted to go back to a full time job" - "Yes sir, he never really wanted to have the right schedule" - "Yes sir, he never wanted to go soulwinning". He thinks he knows why Rendla did what he did and he probably heard half of it second hand from others in his fellowship group. Ununeemus is just a SUCK-UP SUCKA.
Ununeemus - You GOT SERVED by Bellamy
Anon said "Yes sir, he just wanted to go back to a full time job" - "Yes sir, he never really wanted to have the right schedule" - "Yes sir, he never wanted to go soulwinning". He thinks he knows why Rendla did what he did and he probably heard half of it second hand"
And it's a broken record that's been playing for years. And while you're wrinkling your brow with concern, nodding your head in agreement, all the while you're thinking, I wish I could escape myself.
This is God's heirarchy for the church. If you don't think so, just call RWD and he'll tell you...
First Tier - RWD, MCK + Olson the Enabler
Second Tier - Johnsons, Kinsons, Ashmores, Tiemans etc. (e.g. General Board)
Third Tier - sycophantic ministers and wives who try to court favor of and fawn over the First and Second Tiers and who's greatest wish is to teach in the Bible School, work in "The Office" or scrub a toilet
Fourth Tier - ministers and wives in works outside of Graham
Fifth Tier - church members who are being groomed by the Fourth Tier for their greatest wish of being "in the ministry"
and going to Bible School. Maybe really the greatest wish of the Fourth Tier to have someone to send to Bible School in order to finally show progress to First and Second Tiers
Sixth Tier - local church members who are deemed faithful (i.e. paying tithe and attending at least 1 service a week) by the Fourth Tier and accepted as brothers or sisters by the Fifth Tier
Seventh Tier - people that visit local churches, look at the Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Tier and wonder why they even listen to anyone that shows up from the Second Tier and who may or may not come back the next week unless the aforementioned Tiers coerce, conjole and heap condemnation upon them
Eighth Tier - former members or ministers who warn, work or wait to move on from having been involved with this group
Ninth Tier - family members of the Second through Seventh Tiers who are not involved with this church at all and who try to warn of the actions of this group
Ninth Tier here...and proud!!
TB
"Ununeemus" should be "ur an anus"
Tenth Tier - People working together in a coordinated effort creating blogs to expose the NTCC daily while periodically talking amongst each other to discuss ways to deliver the trapped who remain in the corrupt org. A slightly more motivated version of Tier Eight.
Tier Ten are the Tier Eight Special Ops.
Jeff
Tier Ten Chain of Command.
Vic the Learned, Greg the Genius, Don and Ange the Diligent, Larry the Loving One, Jeff the Juggernaut, Bro Bellamy the Bold One, MDR the Master of Organizational Knowledge, April the Assiduous, Deb Shunk the Dear One, Deb Reed the Delightful One, TB the Tireless, Double D the One with Discernment, Kris the Knowledgeable, and Mark G the Gallant.
These are the proud exers, who boldly go where no man has gone before. Straight at RWD. The one who pretty much guaranteed immediate judgment against anyone who had a single word to say against him. We ain't scared. RWD, otherwise known as RDUB, AKA "Double Standard Davis" is a flat out abusive, hypocritical, money hungry control monger. There you have it. Remain in his org if you want to and you also can have a 99% chance of going out to pioneer a church only to stay broke and be considered a failure by the NTCC leadership.
Jeff
wow. Good self-image Jeff!
a massive inexorable force, campaign, movement, or object that crushes whatever is in its path: Juggernaut Journalist smashes ntcc opponent in blogosphere and proclaims
21 second video link
Jeff - Tenth Tier is awesome like Chuck Norris in Delta Force, Charles Bronson in Death Wish, Clint Eastwood in Dirty Harry, and Bruce Willis in Die Hard. Yippee ki-yay NTCC!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sycophancy
Some good word illustrations of people in that Third Tier.
Anonymous said...
wow. Good self-image Jeff!
Jeff said....
Yeah thats right, that's me. About 150 LBS lighter. That is a big dude.
Jeff
"Ununeemus - You GOT SERVED by Bellamy"
Well, well now. Bellamy did well to come to his brother's aid, albeit weak. Furthermore, old Frank's rebuttal was even weaker. Who can make sense of Rendla's rambling, incoherent, and embarrassing statements? 450 guests in 4 years is laughable. If he preaches anything like his reply, then that says it all doesn't it? Me thinks so.
Ununeemus
"450 guests in 4 years is laughable."
Really? Well, Eli Gesang preached that in a year or two, Graham had about 800. That would be with a massive soul winning team blitzing the community, state of the art facilities, live music, and the very best preaching NTCC could muster. Do the math to calculate who achieved better results per capita and you will see that our friend Rendla smoked Graham like a cheap cigar.
Eli's point was that of those 800, only about three kept coming (and I think even they have left by now; Dan Fowler was one of them, and he's living up here in Fairbanks, NTCC-free). Now THAT is truly laughable. Of course the spin was that "they didn't want God." Yet we were supposed to go out naked and alone and set the world on fire with the same methodology and corrupted gospel they were using to achieve their non-results. But back then we really didn't want to think about that too closely.
It's not that people "don't want God." People really just don't want NTCC's god--Rodger Wilson Davis. People aren't interested in having their lives micromanaged by a group of narcissists and pride trippers. The near wholesale rejection of the NTCC model should have been a wakeup call all along, but instead of self examination and reflection, the leadership just blamed the people for "not wanting God," ignoring their own failure. Then they turn around and judge others who have actually achieved more than they have, on a relative scale.
NTCC--quit blaming others and tell RW to take his own advice: if the church isn't growing, look in the mirror.
April the Assiduous: Showing great care and perseverance: "she was assiduous in pointing out every feature".
We all used to be good soldiers for ntcc. Put our heads down and do what was expected of us. We kept trudging along. Pushing forward. Thinking that if we keep going along it HAS to get better. Five,ten,fifteen years go by. And Nothing changes. We still only have a handful of people in the church services. Until one day we Have to acknowlwedge that this is NOT of God. And we have to escape and get out of Dodge! After we make the decision to leave. There is a HUGE let down,feel of failure. We put all that work,time,money into a Organization that just spits us out.
Even after we leave ntcc. It can take some of us year,or more to get ntcc out of us. For me,I went on Tracy's Blog and ntccXposed.com and then factnet.com. All of them combined. Helped for the fog to lift. Then we can slowly become our OWN person. Where you rely just on God! Your husband has no say so in what you wear,how you do your hair,makeup,ect. It is ALL between you and God. Being in subjection biblically is NOT having a man lording it over you. Why would God want a man and woman to be joined together. If Both were not going to be happy in that union! And believe me,being under ntcc subjection rules is NOT fun for the woman!
I am very happy that more folks are jumping ship and coming on the blog. We are that life preserver! Myself and others offer our help as you try and step out of that boat. Get your sea legs of relying on Just God. It is overwhelming at first. You have ALOT of the stinking thing still in your. As I call it the ntcc jargon,super spirtual,can't go to compromising churches,is that a holiness church,ect.. When I first left and went to a mutli-church ladies bible study. I was afraid to open my mouth. I did not want to repeat anything that ntcc and taught me. So I prayed to God to wipe my slate clean. Instead of trying to pick through the correct teaching and the false teaching.I would Rather start fresh and let God teach me! Has been working and coming along fine! I take baby steps and go at my own speed in my walk and spiritual growth. No pressure to GET IN!
I might not be the best speaker/writer on here. But I speak the truth. Friends know me as being very truthful and blunt. What I write on this blog or when I wrote on Tracy's blog. Is 100 percent the truth! I am proud to be able to use my voice to help others out of ntcc or prevent them from even making one step inside one of there buildings. Better to not even going to one of there services. Safe you a WORLD of pain and suffering!
April
Ununeemus even when I was still in NTCC I was man enough to use my real name. But I know you do not want anyone to know who you are, especially those NTCC leaders that follow this blog. But I understand WHY ntcc LEADERSHIP DO NOT WANT ANY OF YOU TO COMMENT ON THIS BLOG; YOU PROVE OUR POINT OVER AND OVER ABOUT ntcc. The attitude that you just showed comes straight from the top. Always working to prove that you are good enough and always forgetting about God's grace, mercy, and love.
Why don't you ask NTCC leadership how many visitors that they personally got to come to church and then ask of those that they have got to come, if any, actually still come. They can't even keep preachers that are called of God. They tell the pastors to send them to bible school because if they don't then they will leave. Looks like to me they leave just as fast in bible school and beyond.
Ask them how many pastor's have left in the last 6 months?
Ask them when was the last time they really sacrificed for God?
Ask them why does most of their preachers live in poverty trying to keep the churches going and they live like kings?
Ask them if the CEO ever pastored a church other than Graham?
Ask them where does all the money for world missions go? The only missionary work they had for over 15 years was Philippines! I was a servicemen's home director in Germany for 4 years so I know the money wasn't coming to us.
Ask them how many doors did they knock on?
Ask them How many times they used their last dime to pay the church bills and when was the last time?
Ask them how many times have they moved at their own expense because they loved God more than their house, family, and job?
You can say what we have done isn't much if you would like, but I can guarantee that you are not man/woman enough to take a real look at what the NTCC leaders have done. Don't look at what others have done and they reaped the benefits, look at what they have done.
I told Rev. Olson that I had started paying my personal tithe from my job to the local church instead of paying them to Graham and he told me that if I wanted his and pastor Davis help then I needed to continue to pay my tithe to Graham. You see their help, which I am still trying to figure out what it was, would only be given if I paid tithe.
You say that my coming to the aid of Bro. Rendla was weak, and I really don't care, but WHO HAS ntcc LEADERS COME TO THE AID OF?
Bro. Bellamy
Was just on the ntcc web site. Checking to see who was was where. I am very thankful that Minnesota is not back up on there list. With one of there so called works. It was a hard place to live while in ntcc. But The people are wonderful up there. Helped us when ntcc could not be bothered!!! And to think,I can remember the day when we moved to MN to start a work. I was so happy,full of pride to see the Minnesota Flag up on the campground. Now I am even more thankful that flag is not hanging in that building.
April
April,
As of a few years ago they didn't update the flags (along with their website) either. Once a flag is up, it's up.
Gregory
Yeah, ntcc is good at flying flags alright. It's all a facade. Time to take down the flags boys!
The only flag they're entitled to fly is the Jolly Ro(d)ger, seeing now much they love to spoil and plunder. Can't you see RW with an eye patch, a peg leg, a hook, and a parrot?: "Avast ye, scurvy dogs, and bring the tithe-booty to my storehouse or ye'll be walkin' the plank to Davy Jones' locker. And if ye don't like it, thar's the hatch!"
Vic, you and Jeff are so funny!! I'm over here about to fall off my chair laughing.
mdr
Bro Bellamy said "They can't even keep preachers that are called of God."
Vic said "The near wholesale rejection of the NTCC model should have been a wakeup call all along, but instead of self examination and reflection, the leadership just blamed the people for "not wanting God," ignoring their own failure. Then they turn around and judge others who have actually achieved more than they have, on a relative scale."
Both Vic and Edward are spot on with their post. Michael is the equivalent of a brutish little wind bag who has had everything handed to him from the "head cheese" himself. If Roger hadn't moved the Parkland, Tacoma and Puyallup congregations to Graham, Graham would be even smaller than it already is. And that's the model church? If I were a betting man, I would be willing to lay a wager that Michael can't name 25 people that he himself has reached and gotten saved in 35 years of so- called ministry. Hmmmmm?! Me thinks so, Michael!
Brother Rendla, I think getting 450 people to visit your church in 4 years of pioneering, and of all places, in Las Vegas NV, is quite an accomplishment. I would have loved to have you as a soul-winner with me any day of the week and on Monday too.
Good job, my brother!
mdr
P.S. I wonder if Pastor Michael has even invited 450 people to church in 35 yrs! Hmmmmmm?!
"P.S. I wonder if Pastor Michael has even invited 450 people to church in 35 yrs! Hmmmmmm?!"
You can be sure RW hasn't. He was always telling us war stories about his soul-trapping prowess, but all we ever saw were his feeble and ineffectual efforts with Lou Ricketts or Al the barber. He had us adopt Jack Hyles' methodology, but somehow he overlooked the part where Jack emphasized that the pastor of a church should be soul winner #1, and how that he resolved never to let a day pass without talking to at least one person about Jesus.
In sixteen years, I never saw nor heard of one single individual (oops, I mean person; individuals aren't welcome) in NTCC who was personally evangelized by him or any other board member bigshot, except maybe for Pop Gaylord. RW didn't mind sending us out to knock on strangers' doors and look like cult zombies, but he sure wasn't going to get down in the trenches with us himself.
Bro. Bellamy said...
I told Rev. Olson that I had started paying my personal tithe from my job to the local church instead of paying them to Graham and he told me that if I wanted his and pastor Davis help then I needed to continue to pay my tithe to Graham.
Jeff said...
What a joke. That's all I can say. It's no more than a big scheme. I'm positive that's why RWD has so many people come back to Graham. The more people at Graham, the more tithe that comes directly to Graham and the more money they directly control. There is nothing biblical about that whole plan. RDUB is like the mob boss who gets a cut from all the deals concocted by his wise guys.
Olson is at the very bottom of my list. Believe it or not, I actually have more respect for RWD than Olson. Olson is like a leech who's attached himself to RWD's rear-end and he keeps sucking and he won't let go. Where ever RWD goes, Olson goes. Whatever RWD says, Olson regurgitates. I'd rather report or answer to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad than Olson. At least you'd get a straight answer out of Mahmoud.
The more people who tell me or write about Olson, the less respect I have for him, (which wasn't much to begin with) so the respect level is in the negative exponents. Olson is like the hit man for the mob boss. Olson does all RWD's dirty work.
Jeff
Jeff said:
"Olson is like a leech who's attached himself to RWD's rear-end and he keeps sucking and he won't let go."
Don and Ange said:
Too funny! Olson has always made his living being a parasite. The ultimate cheese eating, enabling yes man that will follow Rwd to the gates of hell with his entire congregation. His job is to deflect any accusations of impropriety and to discredit the source. The three witness rule had to be put into place because so many people had dirt on him. Olson the PR man would discredit people to protect his host.
Rwd has surrounded himself with people that will latch on to him like leaches. He is the Borg leader and his board members are all part of his collective. Their biological distinctiveness has been absorbed and they are now drones. Rwd is the mob boss and Olson is the hit man. Which one will get more time if they go to jail, probably Olson, because he pulled the trigger. Olson knows every secret and every sin. He sold out God so that he could attach himself to rwd's butt and become the biggest parasite of all.
The ntcc scheme is all about attaching yourself to the host. Its not about serving God its about eating cheese and kissing butts. Jesus never told the apostles to go forth and preach their own gospel so they can have followers of themselves and be worshiped as god. This is what happens when it's all about money. This is the kind of crime syndicate that is created when you use God to build a personal empire.
Don and Ange
Don and Ange wrote...
This is the kind of crime syndicate that is created when you use God to build a personal empire.
Jeff said...
If I didn't know better I'd say you have some experience with the mob. Hey, if you and I went to RDUB for some guidance, we could make the Mafia seem like a rookie team in the minor leagues. Ha, ha. RDUB could get us pointed in the right direction and we'd be the big leaguers. First I'd have to figure out how to get rid of my conscience. I'm sure RWD could tell us how to do that also.
Jeff
All my uncles play the violin ;-)
We are both Italian.....
You're Italian Bro? You're in. Get rid of your conscience, and we can be millionaires. All we have to do is set up a whole bunch of churches directly outside every Military installation in the US. Convince a bunch of young GI's that our church is the only "Real" Christian church in the world. Tell them their family is the devil and convince them to run around the installation inviting people to church. Then we will knock the ball out the park when we convince everyone to send about 40 percent of all their revenue directly to "OUR" church headquarters. We'll be rich Bro.
Have you figured out how to get rid of your conscience yet? That is the only part I haven't figured out. Call your Italian Pizzo's and see if we can get an appointment with Old Double Standard Davis. He knows the answer. We'll be rich.
Jeff
"We'll be rich." And the best part is we won't do a lick of work ourselves, we can use the church 'mission' outposts as excuses to travel the world, have the church pay all our expenses, buy our Recreational Vehicles, and pay us inordinately high salaries. Oh, and let's not forget the best perk, it's all TAX FREE!! "Praise gawd, brother!"
Hahaha. Jokes on the suckas we get to come out. Tell you what, Jeff; just for giggles and grins, let's tell them children hinder the work of gawd. Hahaha. They'll be running to get their pipes snipped. Then we can tell the single guys they can only date women in our churches. They will be falling over each other trying to get ladies out to church. It the women are hot, we can hire their husbands and hit on the ladies while ol' Joe is out working for us. We'll just tell 'em, "to the pure all things are pure" and give 'em some hush money to implicate them. Hahaha. This church business is a blast!
Ya, know, Jeff, I always thought Christians were stupid suckers; but this really proves it. These jokers are actually standing in line like orphans waiting to get a bowl of oatmeal, just so I can tell them, "no fellowship" tonight and send them all home to spit-shine their waterpumps. Hahaha. That curfew idea you had is working out great. Now we can hit-up the clubs without any bible school students catching us. If we see one, we will just act mad and kick them out of the school. This pulpit works great for lying about people. I really like how you got rid of that last holy roller by planting your latest copy of Playboy under his matress. Did you see how red his face got when you were interrogating him? Hahaha. He'll never figure out what hit him. He will probably blame some other slob in the dorm for it. Hahaha.
Tell you what, Jeff,
next week when we are in Switzerland making another deposit to those tax free Swiss bank accounts, lets meet over cocktails and discuss new ways to mess with the missionaries. I think we should give them letters for the foreign government, promising full financial support, and then welch out on it once they get over there. What are they gonna do? They can't even afford a phone to complain to anyone. Besides, we can just preach a bunch of junk about gawd judging murmurers in the wilderness, they'll be too scared to do anything like go to the foreign government and complain. Then we can tell everyone that working wives are just being prostituted but then force the missionaries wives to go work on jobs so they can feel like whores! Hahaha. I never knew serving gawd (as in gawd got served) could be so much fun!
All my uncles play the violin ;-)
all my uncles make special shoes!
Plus their husbands are going to feel like failures for not taking care of their wives. That will grease the wheels for hitting on the ladies. If they decide to stick it out, we will just wait until they are burnt out and decide to leave the borg. That way we don't have to pay them the monthly wage we promised them. That was a great clause you thought up to make them wait until they got back stateside before they could collect. It's so funny to see all this cash coming in for mission pledges and nobody but us has a clue that the missionaries don't get a dime of it. Hahaha. Oh, that reminds me, the escrow accounts scam is working out perfectly too. Build a bank account, get the old church building renovated by free slave labor, don't spend anything from the general fund, but keep double-dipping everyone by taking up more offerings and watching the dumb pastors give all their wages, then once the building is looking good, move the hard working sucka to another new work to have him do it all over again. In the mean time, the escrow account gets zeroed out, we take another trip to Switzerland to make some more deposits, move a dud into that new building so he can run off the congregation, then sell the empty but newly renovated building for five times what we paid for it... PROFIT... Ahhh. All this dreaming has made me hungry. Let's meet at the Space Needle for lunch. Those waitresses are fine, ya know what I'm saying? We can just send the ladies to the mall on a shopping spree so they don't salt our game. Yeah, I'm thinking MEAT for lunch.
all my uncles make special shoes!
boots-the kind ya pour concrete in!
Ya know, I'm thinking for next conference, we should send the wives and kid to Disney, while you and me drive the RV along the southern corridor.... Vegas here we come. Catch a couple shows, hook up with some call girls, try our luck at the tables, you know, 's'all good. opening that work there in the desert was the best idea you've had so far! It's the perfect front so we can stop and play. What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas! Hey, maybe we'll start sending the teen brides down there to get hitched. Why send 'em to Missouri when the Elvis chapel is so cheap and easy?
We have been out of ntcc for four years. You would think that flag would have been taken down. If it hasn't already. That would make sense why folks thought we hadn't even left. Even though I went on the ntcc yahoo group and gave a good description of why we stepped down. Even though Mikey tried to persuade me not to share why we left. Something about why air our dirty laundry. As if I cared what they thought of me. That is something he cares about,not me!
Mike if you have not done so. Take down the Minnesota Flag. Folks up there are to smart and know when to not get involved with a cult like ntcc!
April
They'd have to take down half their flags to be honest about their losses. It's just not gonna happen. They can't face the truth. They are bleeding out slow but sure. What was that saying? "The wheels of God turn slow, but sure?" hmmm
From what I understood, RW was told that a holiness church could not be built in the northwest. I think he has set out to prove otherwise.
coon_dinghy@yahoo.com
Would anyone know if Reggie Terry is still with the NTCC?
Thanks
Mark Breaux
It would seem Terry has relocated to Jackson, MS.
EC
Heard the same rumor through the grapevine. Terry replaced Barnes when he left.
No kidding? So did Barnes really leave? Do we know that for certain? There has been rumor floating around but nothing categorically confirmed.
I'll tell you what. If Barnes did leave, that is a big deal. To loose Reed, Barnes, Bellamy that close together? If Barnes did leave, I wonder if Ivory went along with him? Can we get any positive confirmation on this one.
Jeff
"Heard the same rumor through the grapevine. Terry replaced Barnes when he left."
Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
There is one thing absolutely for certain. If you google the "New Testament Christian Church, Jackson Mississippi" this is the phone number you come up with: 601-372-6137. If you go on NTCCs official website that is also the main phone number listed.
Well when you dial it, a message says that it has been disconnected. Here is the point. It has been that way for a good while now. So why doesn't the NTCC get their website updated? Surely they should want people to be able to get a hold of that church so they can get information about attending right? NOT SO.
Think about it like this... What if you, as an NTCC pastor changed your number and didn't call to give the new number to Graham so they could contact you? You'd get called every sanctified name in the book. He ain't right with God. He shouldn't be a pastor and he is unorganized. He needs to get prayed through. His heart ain't right. He needs to get saved. He is a knot-head. If he ever gets right with God he'll call and give us his phone number. Am I lying? Someone please answer and I don't care who it is, exer or NTCCer. Am I lying?
So why is it any different in this case with the number posted for Jackson Mississippi? Because the NTCC is not a trustworthy, upfront organization and they clearly practice double standards. They hold you to a different standard then they hold themselves. It's alright for them not to update their numbers but let you try it and you are not right with God.
I don't know for a fact that Barnes has really left but if he has and all these rumors are correct, that is exactly why the NTCC hasn't updated anything. Because they don't want people to know for certain that he is gone. They don't want people calling down to Jackson Mississippi causing trouble or digging up information to use against them. Now for the record. I DON'T KNOW FOR CERTAIN THAT BARNES HAS LEFT.
There has simply been some rumors floating around lately but no confirmed kills. I can't believe how big of a CULT the NTCC is. My goodness I just didn't see it some years ago but I know why. The NTCC leadership had mastered the art of hiding information but the Internet has changed all that.
Jeff
Matthew 12:25
And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
NTCC WILL NOT STAND...
When you leave the NTCC consider the 23rd chapter of PSALMS
1The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
3He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
4Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
5Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
6Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
"YOU DON'T NEED THE NTCC THEY NEED YOU"
If Barnes did leave, that's a HUGE blow to them.
Pat
Hi to Mark Breaux from Angela (Reggio, Barden) T. How you doing? You guys still in ntcc or out? Hope you're doing well wherever you're at. =D
My experience in life has been that rumors are true except when started by ntcc to discredit someone who leaves ntcc.
For example: At the local factory, a rumor is heard that so-n-so is pregnant. Time proves the rumor is truth.
In ntcc a rumor is circulated that a certain minister who just left ntcc is watching porn on the internet. Time proves this rumor is false; that certain minister does not even own a computer or go on the internet.
The point is that if ntcc starts the rumor, it is usually proven false in a matter of time.
Other rumors generally prove true, in my experinence.
Hey whats up Pat? Just so you know, Pat and I used to be in the same NTCC church in Columbus Ga. He is from Mississippi and so is my wife. As a result we've all been to Barnes church on quite a few occasions when we went to Mississippi. One time we saw Pat in Barnes church during service because we all, (unknowingly) went to Mississippi at the same time. Pat knows all about the NTCC cause he was in quite a few years as well. Pat and his family actually left the NTCC before my family and I did.
Pat had Snyder and Hunt as pastors and maybe more that I don't know about. NTCC pastors caused Pats marriage a lot of problems. Pats marriage was lucky to make it alive by the time he left the NTCC. Snyder never told Pats wife and another lady in the church that jewelry wasn't authorized. So they both show up to conference wearing jewelry only to get blasted by old Double Standard Davis right from the start during service. Pats wife never stepped foot back in the camp ground sanctuary again. It ain't no fun getting openly embarrassed in front of over 1000 people.
Snyder was an idiot and Davis was his own normal abusive self. And then back in Columbus the whole dress thing gets shoved down her throat only for some years to pass and Pats wife goings into Smith Gym on Ft. Bennning and sees Hunts wife in a public coed Army gym wearing spandex tights. Needless to say after everything Pats wife was put through, she was quite upset and pissed.
Thank God both of our families escaped that complete double standard mess. Now Pat is an E-7 on active duty soon to get a promotion. Pat and I get together for lunch every now and then and we are both quite pleased to be away from New Testament Cult Church.
Now you know Pat. Every now and then he'll pop up on the radar here and we might get together this weekend and go see the fireworks. Boy we are going to be some terrible sinners aren't we? Do you think God is going to send judgment at me and Pat with one of those firework missiles? Should we wear body armor? Anyway, so much for the sarcasm. I do that because RWD and his false prophet preachers have a history of regularly pronouncing judgment on any and everyone who ever leaves the NTCC.
Jeff
"To loose Reed, Barnes, Bellamy..."
Man, they've lost some of their best black preachers. I wish LD Jones would quit being an Uncle Tom and get out of NTCC too!
Holy Hannaka Tuesday Batman! Another Brother sees the reality of what we all struggled with in one way or the other.
My prayer is God will open doors for you and your family. I do not think you are a failure in God's eyes, for the fields are ripe until harvest.
Is is just me or are we witnessing a Second Split of NTCC?
The more one breaks the glass, the smaller are the fragments.
Bro Johnson
Bro Jeff,
Bro Bellamy has become a cancer in the sight of NTCC Eyes!
Continue to expose the truth Brother! You are singlehandedly by your witness opening up a portal for folks to get out of NTCC, more than we ever could. Your like a KGB Agent gone good LOL!!!
The Kingdom of Heaven suffereth Violence. And the Violent take it by Force.
Bro Johnson
The NTCC is one lying organization. I just went on the NTCC's "OFFICIAL" website and it still shows Bellamy and Rendla as pastors. If for no other reason than for the sake of truthfulness, they should update their website and put the proper pastors in their place.
I guess they will get around to it one day when being truthful starts to mean something to them. If the NTCC isn't going to have valid legitimate info on their website they ought to just take it down for good. I think they are deliberately dragging their feet so that everyone won't know for certain who has left. They probably don't' want to start a mass exodus.
Jeff
From what I understood, RW was told that a holiness church could not be built in the northwest. I think he has set out to prove otherwise.
rw davis is failing miserably at trying to build a church on his man made holiness standards. False teachers never make it!
Jeff said, "they should update their website and put the proper pastors in their place."
Hey, Jeff, if they updated their website every time someone left the org., they would have to hire a full-time webmaster just to keep up with all the changes. I agree with you in that they should do themselves a big service and take down the website. It's a laughable, feeble attempt at trying to look relevant.
Happy 4th of July everybody!
mdr
Hi Ange,
Hope you guys are doing well! I left the org in June 2004. Things are going well. We're moving forward. The info on here is interesting and some times mind blowing.
Thanks for the greeting!
Breaux
Jeff said:
"I guess they will get around to it one day when being truthful starts to mean something to them."
Don and Ange said:
Mck said he would get around to addressing our issues on judgement day. - a paraphrased quote found on the mUck blog comment instructions. (instructions were necessary to keep the "God bless you sir" comments rolling in and to filter out any of those pesky straight forward questions that may arise)
He also said "If there be any good report" in reference to the type of comments that he wanted his loyal subjects to leave. Obviously, these ministers leaving the ntcc does not constitute a good report so I guess we'll have to wait for that ominous day when we stand before mike to get our straight answer.
D&A
Don and Angie quoted MCK as saying "If there be any good report"
The only good report coming out of Ntcc is, well, those that are coming out of Ntcc.
Let's hear it for the good reports, the Reeds, the Barnes, the Bellamys, and guess what? There are more leaving very soon, a little bird told me the other day.
Why a person leaves ntcc tells a lot about them. Thankfully this person didn't leave because he spent 25 years in ntcc and still didn't have a position and lots of money like Davis. Then Davis went and personally wronged me, so we decided to leave.
Good for you Rendla.
Do we know for certain that Barnes has left the NTCC?
Jeff
Also...
Does anyone know for certain that Barnes has left the NTCC and does anyone know if Bro Ivory, his helper left also. Twice I was stationed with Bro Ivory while we were both in the military (Ft. Hood and Karlsruhe Germany) and he was a friend. Can anyone give me conclusive information regrading these questions? Thanks in advance and I'll appreciate any feedback.
Jeff
Breaux,
not sure if you are who i think you are.
did you teach some classes at the bible college for a while ?
Whose life resembles that of a Christ-follower?
RWD
Mother Teresa
Please explain your answer.
To Anonymous,
Yes, I was given the opportunity to teach a class at the bible school. It was a good experience.
Hope all is well with you!
Breaux
Bro. Breaux,
Was it Major Prophets?
Nicole said,
"Thankfully this person didn't leave because he spent 25 years in ntcc and still didn't have a position and lots of money like Davis."
Sounds like a good reason to resign from a corporation!
I remember Kekel saying to me after I left NTCC that I would soon become critical of the new church I was attending. He said it in a way like he KNEW that this would happen. Was this prophecy? was he judging my character perfectly? I did come to a place where I DID find some faults in that church. Was this because I had developed an evil critical fault-finding sprit?
I don't think so, but God only knows. NTCC does not really use the term "critical thinking" very much if ever in a positive light. Critical thinking is using your brain to analyze things "critically."
I guess the Apostle Paul must have had a "critical spirit" as NTCC says we have. It's funny. If you do a search for "critical spirit" in the KJV you come up with nothing. The word 'critical' is not even there.
Anyways, Paul criticized Peter himself of falling for the judaizers trick of ostracizing the Gentile Christian converts. He rebuked him OPENLY. He didn't ask Peter to talk to him privately because he didn't want to hurt the stability of the church which depended on the perfection of it's great Apostle. He stood up for what was right, not for WHO was the leader. Truth and principles are what Paul cared for. He even said in Galatians 2 that these men who SEEMED to be pillars... whatever they were it didn't MATTER to me (paraphrasing, but that's pretty much the gist of it as I interpret it. NTCC says "touch not the Lord's anointed," and interpret that to mean, "don't think critically about the leaders' actions. Paul openly rebuked Peter who it is believed was older than Paul. I think of Rev. Blumenthal standing for truth and principles when I think of Paul's example. Sis Shunk said he tried addressing some issues that were in the top tier clergy and got rebuked for it. The difference IN THE BIBLE is that Peter endorsed Paul's words as inspired in 2 Peter. He apparently repented as a HUMBLE leader should at a younger preacher's warranted rebuke.
Bro. Rendla,
I hope you read this. Don't post here if you don't want to. I respect your desire to just be quiet. I spent a lot of time reading posts when I left before I really felt the freedom to post without feeling convicted for it. But I hope you will at least read what others have said. I may not agree with every single thing that every person writes, but I think you will find like me that there are many times where you will say that someone hit the nail right on the head about something you had experienced but had developed a pattern of ignoring it for so long.
I fellowshipped with you a few times in NTCC, and every time I was around you, I thought you were a great person, and I considered you to be an asset to NTCC. I remember you and Bro. Wint were very faithful soul-winners even while you were in Bible School. You guys brought people to church and you were very diligent. That guy that posted on here saying you didn't work hard- I figure he didn't know you very well or at all. I know you have a wife and I remember you had a baby when I saw you at the rental car agency- I think it was my last conference. I have a baby now, and my wife can't just do anything anytime. She has to feed the baby and care for her. NTCC's policy of sending a pastor out with one or two helpers to a place where none of them knows anybody, and then telling them to just do cold door to door invitations has been proven time and time again that it does not work very well. The best example of this is Graham.
Love wins people. Good works causes people to glorify God, and I'm not talking about not smoking cigarettes and cursing. Good works. Doing things to help people like Jesus did who went about doing good to people.
Just imagine what kind of missionary works could be started if NTCC would take large percents of the money they take in from duped ministers and congregants and "invest" it in charitable missionary works. They may not make any profits, but maybe they would have some male PROPHETS, like apparently they are lacking in Mindanao and have to rely on the women to run outstations, which is taboo in the continental NTCC.
I will go a step further and say that in my opinion from what I saw of Bro. Rendla, he was a shining example of a dedicated NTCC minister. He was faithful in his soul-winning. I saw him and Bro. Wint repeatedly going soul-winning during my time in NTCC. The two of them were FAITFHUL soul-winners as far as I could tell. I was impressed by his testimony and often convicted by his dedication to the program.
IT IS A SAD DAY FOR NTCC TO BE LOSING SOMEONE SUCH AS BRO. RENDLA! If he never posts on here again, his one two posts already published already lay a heavy smack down on the NTCC. Others who are still in who probably did not measure up to Bro. Rendla's level of dedication ought to consider his departure seriously.
whoops... "his two posts" is what i meant.
The churches in the Philippines should have been like our children. We in the U.S. should have been giving to the leaders, but the money should have gone to our very poor brothers and sisters in P.I.
It aggravates me to think of the riches that Davis and Kekel and others close to them enjoy because of their positions in the org. while one girl was starving in the Philippines, and my ex-girlfriend was told to quit her job for holiness reasons and had to become a maid.
I hope that soon some of the filipinas would post on here about their experiences under McDonald and Rodrigues. I know some people don't like putting down anyone other than Kekel and Davis and the elites, but in my opinion these men are the elites as well. I sat down next to McDonald during the skit at Graham where Rumpf was preaching worldly and dancing worldly, and the Gesangs were throwing lingerie over the wall and there were noises like they were enjoying foreplay. I thought this is stupid, but John McDonald kept faithfully laughing at the parts that we as congregants were supposed to laugh at. A real holiness minister would have said this is uncalled for in a church building. It was right in the church building! In what is supposed to be the House of Prayer, the tabernacle for the Holy Spirit. I can guarantee if the Holy Spirit had not left years ago, He must have left that day.
And my ex-g.f. told me that she was eating well one week because she was eating the Pastor's food (Pastor Rodriguez).
See, there comes a time for a juvenile delinquent when he becomes a man and he can no longer be excused for his actions because of his upbringing. Eventually he is held accountable as an individual regardless of how his parents brought him up. If these two men don't take a stand for truth and principles, and quit stuffing their OWN bellies and getting fat off the poor- I will just leave it at that. God help them. I have very little respect for FAT missionaries who fill their bellies and get fat from money taken in from the poor in 3rd world countries.
SHAME ON YOU BOTH, RODRIGUES AND MCDONALD for just going along with what you were taught and never questioning it, and frankly enjoying it!
Kristofer Moore said...
"I remember Kekel saying to me after I left NTCC that I would soon become critical of the new church I was attending. He said it in a way like he KNEW that this would happen. Was this prophecy? was he judging my character perfectly? I did come to a place where I DID find some faults in that church. Was this because I had developed an evil critical fault-finding sprit?"
There is no perfect church. Churches just like people have had their skeletons in their closet. That is why we need God's Love, Grace, and Mercy.
What NTCC had convinced us is that they were a perfect church. So we so blindly followed all of their ridiculous rules, policies, and what they said was holiness. But after it was discovered that NTCC has just as many skeletons in its closet as everyone else, it made us begin to ask several questions that we had ignored, because we thought they couldn't be wrong.
Why take all the verbal abuse?
Why sacrifice my life and family for them?
And the biggest question of all is, does the Bible really teach it the way they are teaching us?
When I took my "skeleton" to them and they were no help at all is when God help me to realize that I needed to depend on him and not them, because they had left his grace and mercy and were making us depend on works, and works can never replace the soul cleansing, delivering blood of Jesus.
There are a lot of good churches out there and yes we will not agree with everything, but they are okay with that: NTCC is not.
It is NTCC's way or the highway, and many many many of us have chosen the highway.
THE HIGHWAY TO LIBERTY AND FREEDOM LIVING IN GOD'S GRACE.
Bro. Bellamy
Attention! Kristopher Moore, I no that you have a lot on your mind, but can you find a way to condense your comments. It's like reading a run-on sentence that just keeps going and going and going and going and going and going and going.
Thanks man!
Kris said...
I remember Kekel saying to me after I left NTCC that I would soon become critical of the new church I was attending.
Jeff said...
Hocus pocus. That is like me saying, "If you are still alive tomorrow you'll be breathing." Duh!!! After my go around with the NTCC you better believe I'm critical of other churches. It was bad enough that I let myself and my family get duped by the NTCC leadership but what kind of idiot would I be if I let it happen again? So yeah Mike the false prophet, you better believe that exNTCCers will be quote, "critical" of other churches. If there is one thing I learned from the NTCC leadership it's never trust someone just because they claim to be a Christian. They are the ones who will get you the worst because you think you can trust them and they use that against you. You let your guard down. There are few people in this world I would trust less than, Olson, Kekel and RWD and I'm dead serious.
Isn't that sad? I don't trust a single thing anyone of them says and I'm not kidding or exagerating. Trust Olson? Are you kidding me? I'd trust a snake before I'd trust Olson.
Jeff
Bro Bellamy said...
There is no perfect church.
Jeff said...
No doubt. The NTCC is just too far from it for me. I can take imperfection but I can't take the Pharisees and the NTCC leadership are the modern day Pharisees.
Jeff
Anonymous said...
"Attention! Kristopher Moore, I no that you have a lot on your mind, but can you find a way to condense your comments"
Kris said...
I agree. My posts are way too long. I should learn from Vic who is extremely succinct in his comments, but it will probably take me about 20 years to master the vocabulary he has.
One suggestion is when you see my name, just skim through what I said until you see certain key points that may interest you. If you don't see any, just skip my posts entirely! But I will work on trying to condense them, too.
Cool, no problem.
Now THAT was short!
No doubt. He, he.
I'm a persistent little bugger so let me try again. Does anyone know for certain that Pastor Barnes has stepped down as the pastor of the New Testament Christian Church in Jackson Mississippi? Various rumors have been floating around suggesting he has left but no conclusive confirmation. I don't like going full speed ahead with something until I know for sure that I have some facts. When that happens and we are wrong, it makes these blogs far less credible.
By the way, last night I took my son to the fireworks display on Ft. Benning and it was a good show. My daughter is very close to going away to college; a real college. Thank God she wasn't old enough while I was in the NTCC to wind up getting married to an NTCC minister. Now for the record so there is no misunderstanding; some NTCC ministers are some pretty nice guys who I'm sure make alright husbands. That is not what I'm talking about here.
The last thing I want for my daughter is to see her running all around the USA, broke, with an old beat up, broke down vehicle, trying to pioneer a church for old Double Standard Davis only to realize 15 years into it that the NTCC could care less about her.
She would be better off cleaning out toilets full time for a living. I can't think of a worse thing to find yourself doing than getting used in the name of the Lord. Tell me one occupation (religious or otherwise) that is worse? I can't think of one and I just tried for almost 3 straight minutes.
Jeff
Hi Jeff and all,
I have been following this blog and other blogs for some time. I am not ashamed to post my name, nor do I care what NTCC thinks of me. What matters most is what God thinks! I am going to work on posting my own blog, this is to share with you why I left. I have had some real good brothers and sisters try and ask me to go back to NTCC, but that won't happen! The reason is that GRACE does not abound in that place!!! When I hear the so called Man of God bringing out things about others past it really bugs me!!! CAN YOU TELL?
I see many familiar names on here...some of you I have had the pleasure of eating dinner with...I just want you to know that I love you all. Frank, it was great talking to you the other day!
Just for the record;I don't go seeking out any current member of NTCC to convince them to leave. Did not do it even to Jeff. I know he wondered why I would not talk to him while he was in. There is so much to be said with so little time, because I have to work.
Love you all, even those that have not left!
Diana Lopez aka Diana Taylor
gracemurc4u1@yahoo.com
Diana said...
Just for the record;I don't go seeking out any current member of NTCC to convince them to leave.
Jeff said...
Hello to you Diana. Yeah, we've had dinner together a time or two. Some pretty good dinners too. As far a what I've quoted above; I can't say the same. This blog would certainly qualify me as someone who makes a deliberate effort to convince people to leave the NTCC. I understand some people not wanting to do that but I also understand my reasons for doing it. I hate to see people wasting their entire lives with the NTCC because it is clearly a dead end. It's a fast route to nowhere and a whole lot of wasted years. I can't imagine myself at 50 or 60 years of age with no hope of retirement and that is where 99% of NTCC people will be if they stay in the org. If they stay with the org till they are 50 or near 50, there is little or no hope of retirement unless they've figured out some way to save a whole lot of money and for the majority that simply never happens. Change your name to Kekel and it might.
The NTCC doesn't give life, it ruins lives. If you are 50 or near 50 and you have no retirement you've basically reached a point of no return. You've really reached a point of no return if you've not significantly contributed to social security or saved a whole lot of money, one or the other. Life is real and if you can't draw a decent social security check combined with an already existing retirement, then chances are unless you inherit a bunch of money, you'll work till the day you die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What kind of life is that to live when you are old? Listen people and listen good. The NTCC is dead wrong about women not working. Being a "keeper at home" means to be a "good house keeper" or to be "domestically inclined". It does not mean that a woman can't work. Not only that the scripture applies to young women anyway. READ IT.
So here is the deal. For you older couples who've left the NTCC and need to get your live back moving forward: Unless you want to work on a job till the day you die, you better start saving money and the best way to start is for your wife to work also. There is no reason for her to be stuck in a house with no kids. My wife is a school teacher and her income helps tremendously111 Together we make real good money. REAL GOOD. We have a substantial household income. Clearly near 6 figures. I don't want to "HAVE" to work past the age of 62. Lord willing, I will start drawing social security then. I don't want to punch the clock till the VERY day I die. You people better start thinking about it because the NTCC has set you back a good long way and you need to wake up and realize it quick because it's true.
This life ain't no dream, it's real. So therefor to retire, your job is to figure out a way to get as much household income coming in as possible and that means your wife needs to get a job and according to Proverbs 31 that is not a sin!!!! She will be considered virtuous when she has a job. READ IT!!! PROVERBS 31!!!
You've let RWD trick you into going nowhere but that can stop completely. I don't want to have to struggle and count coins and coupons and food stamps. My wifes income has been a huge benefit and that is an understatement. You all better wake up and start bringing some real money into your house.
If you don't figure it out now you will, when you are gray haired and 75 years old and still punching a clock. That will be a sad day.
Jeff
Jeff said:
"By the way, last night I took my son to the fireworks display on Ft. Benning and it was a good show."
Don and Ange said:
Yesterday we went to an event called creation-fest. It was a Christian Contemporary music festival. We had a very good time and were around people that were ordinary folks that got together to enjoy a night of Christian music. The people that we were surrounded by were not a bunch of holier than thou super spiritual Christians. To me the whole thing was amazing. Being around a bunch of people that are Christians but they were just there to enjoy themselves. Can you imagine tens of thousands of ordinary Christians getting together just to enjoy themselves?
I can't remember a time in my ntcc life where Christianity was an enjoyable experience. There were times when I enjoyed my salvation, conferences were fun, usually, but just getting together with a whole bunch of people to enjoy a concert on this side of the ntcc was really fun. The difference in this event and a conference was that the people were not all uptight. They went there with the sole purpose of enjoying themselves. They could have all gone to a secular music concert or to the bars or somewhere else, but they chose to come to this event.
While in the ntcc, I would have looked at the people at this Music festival very critically and said that they were not really Christians because they were listening to something other than southern gospel. The people at this event showed more love than I have seen in the ntcc. They didn't care who you were or how much money you had to put in the offering bucket. For the most part, these people just were there to enjoy their salvation. We also seen a fireworks show afterward and then we camped out in a tent, cooked some bacon, eggs, and coffee on the Coleman grill for breakfast and drove home today.
Now if we tried to do this same thing while in the ntcc we would have no doubt been blasted for wasting God's time and money. Looking back on things, I truly believe that I have wasted more of God's time and money in the ntcc than I ever will if I live to be 100.
Don and Ange
Jeff said:
"Does anyone know for certain that Pastor Barnes has stepped down as the pastor of the New Testament Christian Church in Jackson Mississippi?"
Don said:
I have also heard rumors but don't expect more. I use the ntcc rule to help me decide about these things. Two or three witnesses and it's a done deal for me. I've heard more than three people discuss this issue and to expect anymore than that is a pipe dream at best. We would have to wait for this event to become well known throughout the ntcc and then someone would have to leave the ntcc and then that someone would have to be willing to spill their guts. I don't see this happening any time soon because information is suppressed in the ntcc. They aren't even allowed to have fellowship meetings any more, for crying out loud. If someone were to ask the leadership they would say, "If there be any good report, think on these things".
There are people in the ntcc that are discontent and maybe someone will leave soon that is from that area and knows the deal. If they are willing to share it, we will probably find out about it before 80% of the people that are still in the ntcc.
Don and Ange
Jeff,
I understand why you post this blog, so please don't misunderstand what I am saying. I am not finding fault with your blog. I said that to say this...At first I did not speak against NTCC just for the very reason that Teresa Jeter criticized the Reeds for. They are not disgruntled and misguided! She is very misguided if she does not wake up and smell the coffee!
NOW I am going to speak out against NTCC! Why? For the very reason that we have been accused of being disgruntled and misguided. Yes, I am very hurt by the leadership, because some of them stand back there with NO BACK BONE and let this bully RWD and MCK beat down good men and women!!!!
Hey MCK and RWD if there is anything of good report think on these things...
RWD, did you think about that as you sat in front of other ministers telling all about L. Taylor? Do you know MCK or RWD that Lee has not ever said anything bad about you? But yet you sat in that PI so called conference and tried to destroy Lee in those bretherens eyes! How dare you call yourself a man of God!!!!
This is for Teresa...Teresa you need to pray for your leaders, because they are very foolish!!!
My heart was really saddened by what I heard RWD saying about Lee. So as Kekel put it when they start attacking people I love guess what...you got that right...I am going to speak out against you...
I am working on my story as I add my comments to this blog...Teresa please read, because your head is about to spin...
BTW Teresa, I still love and care about you and your family! I am not trying to hurt you, but you really need to wake up!
Diana, I understand completely. I do understand people wanting to leave the NTCC and put it all in the past. I understand people not wanting to talk about the NTCC leadership.
We all have our reasons and we all go through different stages after we leave the NTCC. Some people will never get to the stage that I'm at and frankly they are probably better off for it. Not because I think what I'm doing is wrong but because of the time I invest in this whole thing. MANY HOURS! I'm fortunate to be a pretty good and fast typist. I'm convinced that someone needs to do what I do with these blogs and I'm convinced that I have to continue for now. No matter what I don't ever plan to take this blog down.
You and I have moved on with our lives and we are out of the NTCC and that is good but there are too many who haven't. The other problem is, there are too many people who just can't see how much of their life they are wasting with the NTCC and I'm trying to help in that regard and it's absolutely working.
Having said that, you and I are on the same sheet of music and it's always good to hear from you. Take care and I wish you the best.
Jeff
"I should learn from Vic who is extremely succinct in his comments..."
Well, I happen to be a DINFOS trained killer (I was an Army journalist, and went to AIT at the Defense Information School at Ft. Benjamin Harrison in Indianapolis, where they sold "DINFOS Trained Killer" coffee cups and similar tchochkes).
Nevertheless, I don't think there is anything wrong with your posts, and in my opinion you express yourself capably. Some thing just can't be said with a sound bite. If you check FACTnet, you'll find I was quite prolix early on. There are things which need to be deposited online, and some of them can't be explained in a sentence or two. Now that they're out there, I can afford brevity.
Hey Kris, please keep posting one way or the other. You make excellent points that make us all think. Please keep contributing!
I don't know if I should say thanks, because of course we don't post for approval from somebody, and it's kind of therapeutic for me. I don't mean in the sense of "venting," as some have called what they are doing, but really it is kind of reassuring when you recall all the instances that something was done that was just not right after hearing over and over that the people who leave left God.
It's kind of weird. What would I have done if NTCC had not "reached out to me?" That is the confusing thing about it. They preached such a straight gospel with such strict standards it makes it so hard to admit that there is something wrong. But you have to believe the Bible when it says, though I do all these things and have not charity ... and then you begin to see that obeying strict codes of conduct in order to fulfill the righteous requirements in God's word is just as pharisaical as the Jews who wrote volumes of books to describe how to fulfill the requirements of the law, yet they lacked compassion and justice.
Your skirt can be 50 feet long and you need 12 elves behind you holding it as you walk around, but if you lack love and compassion, it means nothing.
Kristofer said:
"It's kind of weird. What would I have done if NTCC had not "reached out to me?" That is the confusing thing about it."
Don and Ange said:
Pop Gaylord summed it up pretty good. In less than a year at Ft. Bragg we had gone from having 3 or 4 people living in the home to having 17 living in the home and over 50 attending service. The pastor of the church at that time preached almost as good as Ashmore, preaching holiness or hell. Many of us prayed for hours and hours day after day and people were getting saved. All this happened while this preacher was committing acts of homosexuality.
I asked Pop, how could this happen and he told me when Jesus is lifted up people get saved. Doesn't matter which church, how corrupt the pastor or if there is sin. The Cross is real. The gospel is real. People need Christ. That's what makes the ntcc so perverted and twisted. Rwd knows this. He knows that if the gospel is preached, people will get saved. He knows that people's hearts will change and that if he can create an illusion of perfection and get folks to believe that they are part of God's last move on earth and that he is God's apostle, people will follow him with unwavering loyalty.
The bottom line is that the ntcc leadership knows how to manipulate people. They take the best qualities that a person has and use those qualities to their advantage. And this is the part that people have a hard time understanding. They do it deceitfully. They do it knowing and not caring how bad they mess people up along the way. It's all (ALL) about money and power. Period.
Don and Ange
Don & Kris - I think that there is also an atmosphere of exclusivity and elitism created where the NTCC paints the picture that they are the ones with the truth and that others are compromisers. Many times
those in the military join to feel a part of something, a brotherhood, and to feel that esprit de corps. People reject you in the barracks, people make fun of you in your unit, staff NCOs and officers try to tell you what to do, and all the while you resist them with the intention of pleasing your pastor and telling the other "brethren" in the church how the devil is fighting.
I just heard that Anthony Johnson was back in Milwaukee to start a second church. Why is he back to start a second one? He didn’t have a big church the first time he was there and the current church it’s too big either. I wonder what old RWD is up too.
What's Anthony's first name? The church locator lists him as C. T. Johnson.
Charles Johnson is the current pastor, Anthony Johnson use to be the pastor before Charles, but word on the street he’s back to start a second church in the Milwaukee area.
Ya, Anonymous, I remember my Pastor telling me to get out of cleaning duties and get out of having to go to the field, get out of taking a course, get out of going on a trip, etc. Anything that interrupted their precious soul-snatching time he wanted me to get out of. My NCO was not even requiring me to clean anything once, just do my duty as an NCO and watch two subordinates clean after hours in the barracks. It was my turn. I was so loyal to my pastor that I kept going back and forth telling him what the NCO told me then he finally told me to tell him something like "I'm trying to get out of this." I told him that and I think his words were "go, Corporal Moore." So I left, and as I recall, he was mad at me for leaving. What a great "Christian" testimony to my fellow Marines- a slacker, a skater, trying to shirk my responsibilities.
If a man asks you to go with him a mile, tell him "No, I am trying to get out of this so I can go soul-snatching for my incorporation."
This is of course not what Jesus said.
"Ya, Anonymous, I remember my Pastor telling me to get out of cleaning duties and get out of having to go to the field, get out of taking a course, get out of going on a trip, etc."
The pastors in NTCC basically would try to get you to be negligent of your duties that you promised to uphold when you swore into the military. You were told to get out of going to the field, being on barracks duty, mess hall duties, and any other unit functions. Then you would stay up with him and others within the servicemen's home and be late for PT or formations. You would skip getting ready for an inspection or ironing your BDUs in order to stay out there. Your PFT takes a hit, your reputation among NCOs and Staff NCOs takes a hit, and you should have had been written up under an Article 15 or some UCMJ reprimand.
Yeah, the NTCC sucks. You'll be a whole lot better off sticking with the military and forsaking the NTCC. I'm not taking about forsaking God, just the NTCC because the NTCC is hardly a Godly organization. Military vs NTCC:
1. An organization that pays a retirement: Definitely the Military and certainly not the NTCC.
2. People who care about you and aren't interested in your money:
Definitely the Military and certainly not the NTCC.
3. An organization that provides health care:
Definitely the Military and certainly not the NTCC.
4. An organization that provides Dental:
Definitely the Military and certainly not the NTCC.
5. An organization that provides paid leave:
Definitely the Military and certainly not the NTCC.
6. An organization that provides great college opportunities:
Definitely the Military and certainly not the NTCC.
7. An organization that provides substantial tuition assistance:
Definitely the Military and certainly not the NTCC.
8. An organization that cares about your family with true family oriented programs:
Definitely the Military and certainly not the NTCC.
9. An organization with potential promotions for more than 5 people who aren't your family members:
Definitely the Military and certainly not the NTCC.
10. An organization that considers women of value for activities and positions other than cleaning, cooking, and having sex:
Definitely the Military and certainly not the NTCC. If you are a woman in the military you are considered to be someone with a brain who has the mental capacity to do things like vote and discuss elections. Try doing that with RWD ladies? I rest my case.
11. An organization where you can advance for reasons other than who you know:
Definitely the Military and certainly not the NTCC.
12. An organization where you can advance for reasons other than you being a brainless suck up.
Definitely the Military and certainly not the NTCC.
Does the NTCC offer anything? I used to think spiritual guidance but now I know that is not the case. I guess the NTCC doesn't offer anything.
Jeff Collins
"5. An organization that provides paid leave:
Definitely the Military and certainly not the NTCC."
Hah, that reminds me of a conference back in the '80s where RW made this big announcement that the overseers would be fanning out and relieving each pastor for a week (civilian churches) or two (servicemens' homes) so that the pastors could take a break and go on vacation. They were not to be allowed to stay at home, but had to go someplace (of course no one really ever explained where the coin for this unfunded mandate was going to come from; I know I didn't have the funds to go anyplace--including conferences, though I went anyway). Wow, it sounded amazing--a vacation!! We had all forgotten what that was like.
Well, I never heard another word about this program, and I never met anyone who was ever relieved for even one day to go on vacation. It was just RW stringing us along yet again. You can be sure he got his vacations--on our dime.
Vic said...
You can be sure he got his vacations--on our dime.
Jeff said...
Of that you can be certain.
Jeff
But didn't you know Vic, that is what Christianity is all about?
According to the NTCC it is. Take care of the "Man of GAWD". I'll be back in a bit, I got to go to the toilet and throw up.
Jeff
What's interesting is that their favorite company, Church Mutual (www.churchmutual.com) , doesn't offer any health or life products but if they switched to GuideOne (https://www.guideone.com/Churches/Insurance/life.htm) or similiar coverages that they could have a group coverage.
Why Bro. and Sis. Armer left the NTCC Church.
I came to God over 30 years ago, because of the vision, and love of Mom and Pop Gaylord, who saw lost G.I.'s at military posts around the world. I heard the stories of the great men, and woman of God, what they were doing, and what they had done, and I wanted to be used by God.
Through the years, I have been privileged to meet some of the finest people in the World. Men and Women of God, Holy, pure, and real. A holy radiance, once filled our churches.
I have one question, where did all those people go?
How many preachers were run off? Cut off, or Given the cold shoulder, Questioned regarding their commitment, their Salvation, or branded with the Scarlet Letter of excommunication?
I did not forfeit, or loose my Minister's license because of conduct un-becoming of a minister,
I chose not to renew it, and gave it up by default. Thank God there is no expiration date on my salvation! I got sick of hearing line upon line of LAW, and rules, instead of the Gospel.
The droning on, and on of a service, when the preaching was supposed to be limited to 30 minutes. I got sick of being held in suspicion. NTCC leadership encouraging a separation between my wife and I. I wasn't good enough, hadn't achieved enough, or I didn’t have enough money.
I threw in the towel, I quit the club, I wanted my name taken off the Graham attendance sheets.
I am praying for MY FORMER CHURCH, GOD'S FORMER CHURCH, the NTCC, THE CHURCH THAT USED TO BE.
I am praying for a revolution, a great awakening, that will shake that church to it's foundation, AND POUR OUT THE HOLY POWER OF GOD, and remove the corruption of the current leadership, the Yes men, and the Company men!
I pray that it returns to it's former glory, before it is too late.
Pastor Davis, often warned us of, “THAT MAN” who was on the other side of his desk. I feared him, and never really met him.
THAT man, and his cohorts, have taken over the church, and they have enriched themselves at the expense of the people. They have forgotten the love of God, the people who sacrificed their lives, and their fortunes, for God, and the simplicity of the gospel.
NTCC leaders repent, and publish a sincere apology to all present, and former members of Our Church, call for a restructuring, and a re-evaluation of the purpose and direction of The NTCC. Open the books to scrutiny. Give a full accounting, eliminate the financial Malfeasance,
and personal inurements.
Call for a open vote on board members, and leaders, We voted you in once before, In St. Louis, MO. at the Holly Hills Church, during a National Convention. Why don’t you trust the real people of God, and find out how the chips fall.
You told us in Bible College, most church organizations last 50 years, your time is nearly up.
Pastor, I wanted you to get this letter before you left this world. There will be a struggle for the direction of the Church once you die, if it continues on its present course, it will continue to falter, and fail.
I hope that you do something drastic to alter it’s course.
You once preached about a pilot who was off course by one degree, all seemed well, till he perished.
Call for a open convention. And let the Glory of God come back, to Graham, and to the NTCC.
If and when the glory returns, I hope that you are all there to let the power of God fall on you.
Sincerely your brother in Christ,
David B. Armer
davearmer@hotmail.com
ntcc doesn't need to open the book cuz we have seen where the money goes. from tonyas furniture, to the ntcc real estate biz.
they just need an outside company to monitor the money and/or a christian in charge.
Bro. Armer said:
"I am praying for MY FORMER CHURCH, GOD'S FORMER CHURCH, the NTCC, THE CHURCH THAT USED TO BE.
I am praying for a revolution, a great awakening, that will shake that church to it's foundation, AND POUR OUT THE HOLY POWER OF GOD, and remove the corruption of the current leadership, the Yes men, and the Company men!"
DnA said:
This is a letter written with passion and love towards many that at one time had something real. Having been to some of those conferences and heard some of those same messages I can relate. To Rev. Armer's plea for the church to examine it's leadership I would add that they all need to get saved. The direction they are going is not just 1 degree off course but they are way off.
We have to look at this for what it is and examine this in a realistic way. There are people in the ntcc that are saved and love God. Where the cross is preached people will be saved. There are people that assemble themselves together in many denominations all over America that are saved and love God. If you look at many of the cults that exist today there are probably many people inside those cults that love God and are saved.
The ntcc is wrong on so many levels. It's leadership is guilty of destroying lives on a very large scale. If people were to look at spiritual death in the exact same light as they look at physical death they would realize that many peoples lives have been severely altered and some may never recover. In the physical realm if you were to leave someone in a state of hopelessness by taking away all of their basic needs like food, shelter and clothing, and you were to take away all of their hope and all the things they lived for, you would end up with what they found in concentration camps across Europe. You would have dead people everywhere. You would have people that were starved and in total despair. You would have people that lost their mind and could never get it back.
I personally think that God has special grace for people that were a part of the ntcc. Those that once loved God but fell by the wayside because of false teachings and destructive examples are the ones I'm talking about. I think God will reach out to them again and save them like he did me or at least give them an opportunity to know that His burden was never intended to be so heavy.
I wish I could convey this to everyone. I was as deep in sin as a person could be when God gave me another chance. It was way easier than I ever thought it could be to come back to Jesus. When I did my eyes were instantly opened to what the ntcc was really all about. Why? Because God moved in my life contrary to what the leadership of the ntcc told me would never be possible. You all know this to be true. You live in fear of doing or saying anything against the ntcc. Many people that have left the ntcc and claim Christianity still live in fear of the ntcc. God's word says that, "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear, because fear has torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 1 John 4:18
David Armer is right about many things concerning the ntcc. I'm skeptical about trusting many of the leaders of the ntcc because there is loyalty to these men above that which is given to God. Many of these men have made a living off of running good people off and many have suffered lasting hurt and some have been destroyed. What these people need is to get saved. I doubt this will ever happen because they don't see themselves as wrong or lost. They see themselves as the oracles of God, untouchable and unaccountable to anyone. They have created a system that benefits themselves and they are not willing to step out of their comfort zones to change anything. Their lives are too enriched with the things of this world and they will not let go of the power and adoration they get from their followers.
DnA
Still bro Armer said "The droning on... I got sick of being held in suspicion. NTCC leadership encouraging a separation between my wife and I. I wasn't good enough, hadn't achieved enough, or I didn’t have enough money."
Hello, my brother! Amen, amen, and amen!!! What a great post! For the last few years, I've often had many of the same thoughts. You are so right on.
mdr
Bro Armer sounds pretty passionate about NTCC needing a revival and it must start with the top. Too many times we were made to feel that asking questions meant that we were rebelling against their authority (which they took upon themselves) and that to have a difference of opinion meant you were rebellious, crossed up with God and had a "heart problem". You got the "stink eye" from MCK, questioned by Olson, and had to report to the office to "meet the man". Bro Armer may sound pretty altruistic when it comes to thinking the NTCC leadership will repent, but I guess anything is possible. Maybe RWD will actually need a "deathbed repentence" when its all said and done...
Anonymous said,
"Maybe RWD will actually need a "deathbed repentence" when its all said and done..."
Probably Pharaoh would have a better chance at being resurrected!!
Let's look at Rwd for what he really is. He is a robber. He has robbed many of us of our hard earned money and the youthful years of our lives. This might sound like bitterness but hear me out. Check out Gregory's new post on tithe. It's a very extensive study, very deep and proves that there is absolutely no validity to the "All Christian's pay tithe" doctrine that is perpetuated by the ntcc.
We were a part of a huge scam. They saw us coming and devised a scheme to steal our money from us. You can argue that we gave our money freely to them but the ntcc is no different than Barry Madoff who literally convinced people to invest millions in a Ponzi scheme. He "made off" with millions of dollars and became rich by lying to people and stealing their money. We are talking about Rwd, the man that everyone fears and reveres. He took us for tens of thousands of dollars. He put us in fear that if we didn't pay tithe we would not go to heaven so we gave him our money. What did he do with it all? He didn't give it to the poor that's for sure.
DnA
Sheer professionalism and dedication
Copy of Resignation Letter
fog...or F.O.G.? Fear, Obligation, and Guilt...the Hallmark of every good NTCC sermon, doctrine, and regulation.
WOW! I am amazed at these comments! I am not an NTCC member, but my son is a NTCC Minister. Football??? My son and the brethren played football regularly with NTCC's blessing on "campus." Even on his wedding day NTCC surprised him with a half shaped football of his favorite team next to his wedding cake at the reception. I have visited Graham Seminary many times over the past 5 years a lengthy visits. Attended services. Personally spent time with the people mentioned here. I make "no comment" about the accusations of MC Kekel because only God and the women involved know. But, has anyone reported this abuse to the police? Where is the responsibility there??? I reported my own husband for inappropriate sexual behavior and he served prison time. I have been taught grace when true repentance occurs. My husband repented, I forgave, but the consequences of his sin will plague us until the day we die. It has been 25 years with no sexual offense on his part. That demonstrates God's work in a heinous sinful life. Many restrictions and court orders in place, but if what is said is true, then the police should be informed. What happens after that is between God and MC Kekel. So I am not defending or denying such horrific events happened. But the ultimate responsibility is on the ones who know to report it so that it can be stopped.
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