Apparently Pastor and Sis Cyrius were recently in a serious automobile accent which ripped the roof off their BMW700 series automobile. I don't know the extent of their injuries but it's my understanding that both of their faces were messed up to one degree or another. That is an unfortunate occurrence and I wish them no ill-will and I hope they have a speedy and complete recovery. These things can happen to anyone and it's just circumstance. The Bible proves this.Ecclesiastes 7:14 In the day of prosperity be joyful, but in the day of adversity consider: God also hath set the one over against the other, to the end that man should find nothing after him. 15 All things have I seen in the days of my vanity: there is a just man that perisheth in his righteousness, and there is a wicked man that prolongeth his life in his wickedness.
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
So what is my point? If I were to get into a car accident and the roof got ripped off because I hit a horse who was in the road, and I was driving 80mph, what do you suppose you'd hear come across some NTCC pulpits? "Did you here what happened to J. Collins? God judged him because he mocked the man of God on his blog!!! That's right; God used a horse to judge Collins. God had that horse stand right in the middle of the road and that horse was more obedient than Collins, and now because of his sin and disrespect toward the man of God, Collins is laid up in a hospital with his face all messed up and plenty of time to think about his mockery toward the man of God. But even God is merciful because Collins could be dead but God is giving him such a time as this to repent of his disrespect but God might not be so merciful next time. You see this is what happens when you mock R.W. Davis who is the man of GAWD!"
Sharp contrast to what you might of read on Mike Kekels blog about the Cyrius accident, hey? Well my point is that this kind of occurrence can happen to anyone and you NTCCers need to stop being so superstitious. I almost hit a dear just the other day but I managed to avoid it, barely. The Cyrius couple wasn't so fortunate but I don't see it as Gods judgment; I simply see it as circumstance that can happen to anyone, plain and simple. The purpose of this article isn't to capitalize on the Cyrius calamity (as I wish them no harm) but rather to highlight the NTCC leadership's hypocrisy which is so glaringly prevalent. I'd bet my last dollar that if something like that had happened to me, it would get blasted across the pulpit in conference as "judgment" so that people would think I'd got slammed by God and be scared to come anywhere near this blog. I know that for certain because I've heard RWD and his pastors highlight the calamity of folks who've left the NTCC say no less folks who've left and opposed the NTCC leadership.
Well for the record, life has been a million times better in every regard, since I left the NTCC then it ever was while I was with the NTCC and much of that is not circumstance. How do I know? Because some crook, unqualified New Testament Christian Church counselor isn't making decisions that affect me anymore, I make decisions that impact me and my family and if the good Lord has helped me, (which based on known evidence appears possible if not probable) I appreciate it. If the Lord hasn't directed and guided my success, then I'm a very fortunate dude, because believe me, things have certainly been going my way for quite some time. No matter how you look at it, God has been very good to me up to this point because tomorrow that could end. I take the good with the bad because I can't imagine that my extra ordinarily great success can last for too long. If I wrote my story on this blog, people would certainly wonder with some degree of amazement about how I could continually and inexplicably remain so fortunate, time after time after time these last few years since I left the NTCC. Don knows, because I tell him of all the things that happen to me and for a few years now even to this very day, they just don't seem to stop. I just don't like sticking too much of my business here on this blog.
Chief
151 comments:
First off Chief, I hope these idividuals make a full recovery. Secondly, I really hope they have health insurance, if not their bill will be HUGE. I have heard many persons in the NTCC minstry say they do not have insurance through the NTCC. I hope they do.
I read Kekels blog, I don't believe that he wrote what he proclaimed regarding this accident and I will tell you why. In all the years I have heard Kekel preach I have never heard him speak with a sincere caring for others, even his own congregation. His outpouring of empathy and concern is not who he is. He did not write that, that is probably Tanyas words. Just my opinion but I believe I am spot on.
Did you read where Kekel said they were probably better off because they were driving 80 mph? Since when would a police officer say, "Ah, good thing you were going 80 mph". It's like Kekel is praising the practice of speeding. Most people speed and I know it but I'm not going to write that someone was better off because they were going 15 or 20 miles over the speed limit and that speeding probably saved their lives. I think Kekel was probably trying to justify them speeding because maybe he drives all over the place like a bat out of hell. Either that or he wants to lesson the amount of natural judgment that people will place on them for driving 80 mph and hitting a horse. Not easy to avoid a horse when you are driving 80 but things happen and I get that. Kekel is an idiot.
What is the big deal anyway up in Washington for ministers to drive the biggest fattest car they can afford? If you are in the ntcc, I guess there shouldn't be any doubt where your money is going. Must be nice to run around in a big fat luxury car at everyone elses expense. These guys are running around in a 745 BMW? That is what Kekel wrote. Notice he said pray for them. How about go to the hospital to see them or lets take an offering to help them.
And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
That is the same as saying, pray for them but not doing anything substantial to help them. If Kekel did suggest taking up an offering to help them he sure didn't post it on his blog. It's good they did have all those airbags but most people in the ntcc can't afford a 745 BMW. Kekel's message was strange. He had somthing up his sleeve with that one. Kekel the spin doctor.
did u see the bbq pit at the campgrounds ?
anyway... why was he going 80mph is my question. I don't think it was because he just liked to drive fast.
those of us in ntcc know of the pressures and stuff of not being on time, being late and such.
I'm not sure, but my guess is if he wasn't somewhere on time, the old preacher from cotton mill hill would have had something to say about it.
This is edison carter..Live and Direct from network 23.
I'm not going to judge the guy for driving 80. That is not uncommon this day and age with the speed limits being so high. I agree with Anonymous in saying that Kekel tried to put a spin on the guys speed by suggesting that it was good that the guy was speeding. I'm sure he did that to alleviate questions. So what is the answer? Should we all drive 80 just in case a horse steps in our path? Once again I'm not judging the guy for going 80 but rather highlighting the stupidity of Kekel's statement. I don't think its a good practice to advocate breaking the law just because out of pure circumstance it's presumed that breaking the law worked to your benefit.
For every person who survives a crash going 80, there are one-hundred people who die as a direct result of crashing at such speed. As usual, Kekel's statement was reckless, no pun intended.
Chief
Jeff said " I'd bet my last dollar that if something like that had happened to me, it would get blasted across the pulpit in conference as "judgment".
Jeff, Not only would Dub-face get up and say it was the judgement of God, He would relish in that fact in his private circles. Believe me, I've seen him do this many times.
Last November my wife and I were on our way up to the State of Washington to visit family and friends. I was on I-5 going North, and it was about 2:00am. I believe that we were either in Northern California or Southern Oregon. At any rate I was going about 80 miles per hour, give or take a few miles either way. A deer had wandered out in the middle of the freeway and in order for me to have any hope of avoiding him I went into a power skid. Luckily we missed the deer but if we would have totaled the car, which was a rental, or either one of us would have had any kind of harm done to us bodily we would have been covered with very little out of pocket expense, Plus the car would have been taken car of. I hope that Ducarmel and Alice have some kind of coverage that will help replace their car, and take care of them physically. Perhaps R'Dub or Kekel will feel some twinge of sympathy and pony up on whatever they are lacking, be it financial, or just having someone clean up around the house, or help them in some way physically. I might get some criticism for this part of what I'm going to say, But I hope they don't take up ANOTHER congregational offering. That is so LAME, and those people have enough offerings during the week without having another to deal with yet another. They have been faithful for many years. Don't take up a stupid offering, R'Dub or Kekel, Just pony up from your own accounts, and if people want to give, let it be on their own, in private. My prayers go out to them for a speedy recovery.
i wasn't judging him because he was going 80. i of all people love to drive fast.
My main thing was thinking that he was going 80 because he was under some kind of pressure via NTCC to be somewhere on time.
They always point you out and talk about you across the pulpit if you are late.
Pastor, I had a flat tire. So what. that's no excuse brother.
etc,etc,etc
network23
The ntcc is a religious organization, the kind of group that Jesus warned people about. Dub-face is the pope of the ntcc, a Pharisee of Pharisees. The best things that you can learn from Dub-face and the ntcc are what not to be like. The organization is a big religious cess-pool. They follow their own laws and they own the blueprints on how to be phony and religious. The best way to freedom is to escape from the ntcc and ditch religion. Jesus was against the religious hypocrites. His opposition came from the Pharisees and the Sadducees who were busy trying to impose a bunch of rules and policies of control on the people. Thank God for grace, mercy and love. The greatest of these is love. Everything else falls into it's proper place.
DnA
Network 23 wrote...
My main thing was thinking that he was going 80 because he was under some kind of pressure via NTCC to be somewhere on time.
Chief said...
Yeah, you are right on with that one. Old Double Standard Dubster has a history of pressuring people. That crook lives life however he wants but God forbid that someone in his crooked organization is late for anything. They are a bunch of control freaks. I see what you are saying Network23. Have a good one.
Chief
I think it's out of habit. The ntcc is in a big hurry to go no where. I used to drive fast, eat my food fast, do everything fast to optimize every second of time because of all the lost souls we needed to reach. Most people in the ntcc drive like maniacs. Another church service to get to, another soul to check on and another conference to get to. If judgment were part of the equation than the ntcc has received more than it's share. Personally, I agree that it rains on the just and unjust, and the ntcc has lots of mishaps because they are in a constant state of urgency, but they are going nowhere fast.
DnA
You can best believe that Davis and Kekel won't take money from their escrow accounts to help this couple. What they may do is take up a offering. MAYBE, however, judging from their past way in which they deal with tragedies, they will most likely tell people "Just Pray" for them. But when the hospital bills come in, then what, the NTCC is not going to help these people. This is a sad situation. When Mrs Espinozas husband died, did they help this widow, I understand that they did not, last time I checked she is still working at the Walmart in Washington. I remember hearing over the pulpit, it is up to the husband to make sure his wife is taken care of, "with what money, Davis and Kekel" is it going to fall from Heaven. These folks dedicate their lives to God and the NTCC and this is what happens when bad things happen, don't look to the NTCC for help, you won't get any. Unless of course this blog tugs at their conscience and makes them step up and help one of their own. We will see.
On a different note, is the NTCC helping this minister who has stage 4 cancer? are they helping him financially since I can't imagine he would be able to work or support himself? What are they doing for this man? Anything? I am sorry, I don't know this mans name off hand, but I am curious about how the NTCC is helping him... I know he has the VA to cover his medical costs but what about his family, is Davis helping this family financially? If not, why not.
Even if Davis is helping these people? He could really help people by admitting that his money making program is exactly that and no more. It's like keeping a drug addict addicted to crack. You hook them on going through all their money on their addiction and then toss them a few rocks every now and then to act like they are doing the crack fiend a favor.
Same in the NTCC, toss around some chump change every now and then to create the perception that you are some kind of humanitarian just to continue soaking everyone for every dime you can squeeze out of them. That is a common trick that churches use which I've seen illustrated in a movie of a true story where a preacher had quite effectively figured out how to con people out of their money.
Davis did that with me one time. He had been given the offering money after a revival service in Columbus and he gave my little boy a couple dollars from the offering. Naturally, many parents would find that very endearing. He gave Greg Shunk money when Greg had become very sick with appendix problems. Here is the problem. If these ministers had any real health insurance or a real job with real health benefits, there would be no need for them get a handout.
So many people in the NTCC wind up soaking society for handouts every time they get down and out for some reason. The NTCC is a leach on society and RWD and Kekel are leaches on the NTCC.
Chief
Chief, Davis preaches against using the Government to pay your way, ie, medical or unemployment. So, if he knows that as an employer he is not offering healthcare benetfits, he is actually necessitating the need for his employees to get a handout. He does not give his employees that work in the office in Graham any benefits. I know this for a fact. But, what is a man to do for his family, a family needs medical insurance, especially if you have children, you can't be without it. So, it is ok for his employees in Graham to get medicaid why is that? And we should also know buying private insurance for your family is expensive, how can you do that on what the office worker makes? This is hypocritical as well...
Anonymous said...
Chief, Davis preaches against using the Government to pay your way, ie, medical or unemployment. So, if he knows that as an employer he is not offering healthcare benefits, he is actually necessitating the need for his employees to get a handout.
Chief said...
Bingo!!! You just hit the jackpot. It's a sick cycle. In many ways, NTCCers often become a burden on society and people feel sorry for them. Davis and his organization are no good to society. They are like parasites and the example you gave is fitting.
Chief
No I have not had a Church before (NTCC tried to dissuade you of having an opinion of how a Church should be run since you never had one). I come from a family of Preachers. The Church is suppose to have accounts/programs set up for hardships. For example a "Widow's Fund".
When something happens you don't have to take up an offering because all the tithes and offerings have already been officiated correctly. So when something happens the board (Deacons) decides who gets what, how much and etc.
Also, when it is set up that way, the Church takes responsibility NOT one person. So in NTCC if a womans' husband dies she is at the mercy of RWD. If he does gives her $100 then he is praised for being such a good Christian man. Whereas the board/committee would decide on what to give. Then they would more than likely pay the widow's full expenses for a set amount of months. This would come out of the "widow" fund. Big Churches like NTCC should have something already set up...and keep people informed of what they are doing.
How come there aren't professional people (not putting anyone down) at NTCC? Where are the Dentists, CPAs and etc?? Because they are so down on education that they are alienating people. AND people with intelligence aren't going to be preached down to. The men I an talking about are Rev Dr Such n Such. They are respected by the community because they have gone to a real school not a school that teaches not to eat with your hands...
LS
On BTW people at NTCC scheme the system. One lady was saying how she was on disability after being in the service because of bad knees or back (something that clicked for me that couldn't be traced) I found it odd that EVERY TIME I say her she had on 3-4 inch heels on. Never limping or in pain.
Another lady was saying how she had to hurry up and get some medical procedures done because she could get them free before her husband started his new job.
Another lady had some medical bills paid off by the hospital...due to hardship. Yet they had two cars and always dressed well and went out to eat, on trips occassionally...especially Conference!!
Oh, I have seen several getting WIC. If your husband is taking care of you then why are you needing WIC??
Am I the only one that witnessed schemes??
It is a "user" mentality. I thank God I was raised right, in a Christian environment not NTCC.
LS
As far as not giving the workers benefits, they don't need it. It is gravy for them. Most people are former military (and their wives). So they don't need medical care.
Sorry for breaking my posts up but I didn't want one long post to be overwhelming.
Thanks Chief for thie forum!!
LS
LS said...
They are respected by the community because they have gone to a real school not a school that teaches not to eat with your hands...
Chief said...
Well said. You have an interesting perspective and I like what you wrote. As a result of your statement, I now see RWD more so as a dictator rather than a common crook which of course he also is. And a good con artist at that. You are right, that dude is an authoritarian dictator with absolute rule over a reasonably large church. Very poor combination.
Chief
LS wrote...
Most people are former military (and their wives). So they don't need medical care.
Chief said...
I sincerely understand your point but not completely. Unless you are retired, just VA medical doesn't give you too many options. Retirees (like myself) get a whole lot more options with TRICARE. Ask Robert Briggs. The VA misdiagnosed his condition which may have cost him is life. I don't know what his current status is but I do know that he said the VA got it wrong initially and it cost him valuable time. Also, there aren't VA hospitals everywhere. Often you have to travel a good distance. With TRICARE, you can pick where you want to go and often that is quite the benefit. If I had just VA for my family, I'd be looking for additional health care insurance. The nearest VA hospital isn't even close to where I live and people who use it from around here, travel a good ways to get there and spend a whole day in the process.
My boy has bad allergies, and TRICARE pays for him to have a specialized allergist and that is the kind of quality of life I'm talking about. These ex-military guys and gals who don't retire, throw away huge benefits that they'd otherwise be entitled to. That in itself is the worst part about the NTCC. The way the system is set up, it robs young people of considerable opportunities that more often than not, they can't ever get back.
Thank God I stayed in the military. Having said all that LS, I did clearly understand your point. Make no mistake, VA medical is far better than none at all but it is nowhere near as good as folks should be entitled to had they never gotten involved with the NTCC.
Chief
I was at a conference when rwd was talking about some fund set up for the servicemen's home directors.
I'm not sure if all the directors or just the ones serving overseas but he did say that the org. had a fund set for them, he even said how much it was and it was a monthly amount and you would get this amount upon your return, of course you would have to stay with ntcc otherwise it would be forfeited.
Maybe somebody that was in servicemen's home can come here and talk about this.
There is another pastor, stevens, he was just recently in the hospital. It was all over the facebook.
"VA medical is far better than none at all but it is nowhere near as good as folks should be entitled to had they never gotten involved with the NTCC."
Back in the 80's, VA medical was appalling!!!! Now it is pretty good. They have really cleaned up their act. I use it now because I'm a service connected veteran, and can't rally tell much difference in their service,and service I would get at a private institution. When I had my TKR in 2006 they allowed me to choose my own private doctor and then paid for it, In full because I am service connected.
I have a slightly different perspective on health care and I see everyone's point of view. The Cyruis accident hospital bills might be paid by their auto insurance if they had enough coverage on their Beamer. The problem I foresee is that they might not have had high enough medical coverage on their auto policy, but that's their business, and it's supposition to guess. By the way, I wish the Cyruises a full recovery and I do not wish anything bad happen to them financially or physically.
I know that when I was in the borg, I was taught to "trust in the Lord" and I always had the lowest coverage's allowed by law so that more of my money could be freed up for the all important needs of the ntcc.
I don't see medical benefits as an entitlement that the church is obligated to pay and offer each of their employees. I do think that when any employer offers benefits that it makes employees feel more secure about their situation. I also believe that medical benefits should be encouraged, not discouraged. In the trucking industry there are many employers that do not offer medical benefits. I've found that you can purchase medical benefits cheaper through state websites, by eliminating the insurance agents and their associated fees. At present my employer does offer a very decent medical coverage at a fairly low price and this is a great incentive.
At the very least, the decent thing for a church to do is offer medical insurance or give the clergy access to a discounted plan. The ntcc not only doesn't offer anything, but they discourage it. They don't want you spending a few hundred dollars every month on something ridiculous like medical insurance.
The government is going to make it mandatory for employers and employees to have medical insurance. I think it's a huge mistake for the Government to get involved in this. It should be a choice that each person is allowed to make. But if people have no options like in the ntcc that decision is greatly influenced.
DnA
Anonymous said...
"I was at a conference when rwd was talking about some fund set up for the servicemen's home directors.
I'm not sure if all the directors or just the ones serving overseas but he did say that the org. had a fund set for them, he even said how much it was and it was a monthly amount and you would get this amount upon your return."
Edward said...
I believe you misunderstood. This fund was only for missionaries excluding Servicemen's Home Directors. I pastored in Germany for 4 years and when I returned there was nothing for my family. We were sent to Cleveland to a church with less than 10 faithful members. I had to find job, a place to live and conduct 5 services a week. If it had not been for my family we would not have made it.
The reason Pastor Davis gave for overseas Servicemen's Directors not receiving these funds was that we already receive an expense reimbursement of $150.00 a week. Most of which we put back into the church to pay the bills and to go to Conference.
I and others went overseas debt free and when we returned had thousands of dollars of debt trying to MAKE IT HAPPEN!
Bro. Bellamy
Bro. Bellamy
Sorry you had to go through that, Bro. Bellamy. I think that if the ntcc leadership would allow the ones that do most of the work in the organization to have a voice as to how the millions of dollars are spent in the ntcc, missionaries and ministers would be better taken care of. The money is controlled by RWD and a few other controlling board members that will not do anything contrary to what RWD wants done. The missionaries are going through all of the hardships and Servicemen's Homes are very demanding.
The sink or swim attitude of the lazy leadership types serves only their own greed for a carefree lifestyle and all of the amenities that go with it. I will say that in my experience in the army as an instructor and a leader that if you allow people to feel good about what they are doing and reward them for hard work, they will do anything for you. When a person enjoys what they do and looks forward to their responsibilities, they become happy and productive.
In the ntcc, there is very little reward or praise for anything you do. In fact, most people have only criticism and rebuke to look forward to. While a select few live worry free lives off of the labor of a sweat-shop slave labor atmosphere, the ones doing all the work are often mis-treated and 99% of them eventually leave after years of hoping things will get better. 99% is not an exaggeration either. If you look at all of the faithful departed from the early 70's, you'd have less than 1% that endure this kind of mistreatment. Fear is used in the ntcc as the primary motivating force that keeps people in their places.
Positive reinforcement has always been the best means of a fulfilling life. This is the opposite of what you will find in the ntcc. Not only is it a non motivating and non productive atmosphere, but when you take away straw from the Egyptians you create a hopeless mess that people can find no comfort in.
DnA
"I and others went overseas debt free and when we returned had thousands of dollars of debt trying to MAKE IT HAPPEN!"
The more I read about this kind of garbage happening in NTCC the more I despise NTCC.
Well, at least they didn't take up another one of their STUPID offerings!!!
"On BTW people at NTCC scheme the system. One lady was saying how she was on disability after being in the service because of bad knees or back (something that clicked for me that couldn't be traced) I found it odd that EVERY TIME I say her she had on 3-4 inch heels on. Never limping or in pain."
LS judgmental much!? Would you say this about a MALE vet!? Sometimes the wounds of the service cut so deep the real story is not told to ANY and EVERYONE that asks. Did you ever think this was a polite way of her telling you NOB??? Were you sitting on her med board?
What is wrong with WIC? If you paid into something and you need it why not? Stop shopping people's wallets!
I don't mean to sound ugly, but it burns me up to hear people say that about a veteran.
ns
"LS judgmental much!? Would you say this about a MALE vet!? Sometimes the wounds of the service cut so deep the real story is not told to ANY and EVERYONE that asks. Did you ever think this was a polite way of her telling you NOB??? Were you sitting on her med board?"
First of all she volunteered the information. I NEVER ASKED. I don't go around asking people such things. I would say this about ANYONE that was scheming whether it was male, female. Like some people get Workman's Comp but then they catch them on video doing work on their house. LOL. I don't care about things as such but my point is that many of the NTCCers are being righteous about the women not working "because they can take care of their wives" but they have other "means of income".
"What is wrong with WIC? If you paid into something and you need it why not? Stop shopping people's wallets!"
So why should a woman feel bad about working on a job and helping provide for a family? Not getting any assistance, filing taxes and etc? They put women down for working but don't expose the things they do so their wives don't have to. That is my main point.
Judgmental? I had heard so many times about how someone would go knock at someone's door and the people weren't at home. In the driveway the person had two cars and a boat. They would say the husband and wife were probably out working to keep that boat. And how the family probably wasn't happy (mainly because the wife wasn't the keeper of the home). Maybe they were out working, happy they could fully take care of themeselves.
Oh, and I shop people's wallets when they shop my wallet!! Someone gets in my wallet, I am going to be all up in theirs. I'm looking at the dollar bills and the loose change. It is what it is.
LS
ns said...
I don't mean to sound ugly, but it burns me up to hear people say that about a veteran.
Chief said...
Of course everyone here knows I'm a veteran and I'm as loyal as they come. Having said that, I've been around enough to know that many veterans do take complete advantage of the system. I know of an NTCC pastor who's name I will not mention, (because he told me this information in confidence) who is receiving a considerable percentage of disability. To my very best recollection it's 100% and I'm 99.999% positive that I'm right on that percentage. Anyway this pastor moves around the pulpit area like there ain't a single thing wrong with him; ANYWHERE!!! Not even a little bit. I was also told by a different NTCC minister that to the best of his recollection, this pastors 100% disability is related to mental issues.
So here are the options. It's either physically related or mentally related. If it's physically related, there is no way on God's green earth that whatever disability he has should justify 100%. I know, I served well over 20 years active military service and I've know some seriously messed up veterans who you could tell were messed up who didn't qualify for 100% or even close not the least of which is me. 2 knee surgeries baby while I was on active duty and a totally messed up back and I didn't even get 30%. I also wasn't out to soak the govt either. The other option for this pastor is mental disability. If the other NTCC pastor is right and this current NTCC pastor has mental issues which justify 100% disability, then why in the world on God's green earth is he serving as a pastor????? He is totally unqualified if that is the case regardless of what organization he is a part of. So he jumps around the pulpit area like he is 18 years old and he is a pretty sharp orator and he ain't no dummy, so there is no way that whatever disability he has should justify 100% when there are people who've lost limbs who don't get 100%!!!! It is what it is. 100% is supposed to mean you are one seriously messed up dude or gal, not marginally messed up at best. If there really is something wrong with this dude maybe 30% tops but there is no way I'm buying off on 100%. I watched him for too long to buy off on that one.
I could have got a higher percentage but when the doctor asked me to bend down and touch my toes and I could do it, that just took care of any decent percentage for me, bad knees or not. I could have faked the doctor but I didn't. Sure I've had 2 knee surgeries, one on each knee, and sure my knees are messed up but I ain't broke yet and I didn't try to act like I was. I can still run at almost 50 and so can this pastor that I'm referencing and if he does have mental problems they ain't that bad because I saw the guy all through out the week and at all times of the day and he is as sharp as a tack.
Chief
Sounds to me like that Pastor leeches off the government, society and his congregation. What a life. Never work for a thing. Thats the way the NTCC operates. A bunch of freeloaders who are very good at freeloading.
NS,
If you are referring to my comment, then I personally apologize to you. I respect veterans. I don't know if there was another way to phrase my statement without offending...but my statement wasn't a blanket statement on veterans, not at all.
When I said that veterans get insurance, I wasn't saying it as something negative. I think it is well deserved.
And I pointed out the 3-4 inch heels on bad kness/back because I was just fed up. That is a first and last for me!
Thank you
LS
Chief,
Thanks for clarifying! AND I KNOW you don't go around with 3-4 inch heels on. ( I couldn't resist) LOL
LS
It's cool. Being a soldier is my life but it's not beyond a veteran to take advantage of the system. I'm just being real. Just like it's not beyond and NTCC minister to be a conniving crook because there is plenty of them.
Sorry I don't mean to get fired up, but Vets are my heart. Chief I have seen opposite true with most Vets. Most of them are too ashamed or feel unworthy to take advantage of the system. They would either rather suffer with an ailment than to bother the VA. 20 years in the future their little ailment is a full-blown disability. The VA is just now realizing that "hey there were females in the service". I don't know if anyone here remembers going to some VAs where the female bathroom was just an afterthought. The VA has come along way
I had to use a cane a few years back due to injures from a deployment. Thank God, I don't anymore. The pain is still there, but not to the degree it was. I still have a handicap placard in case the injury bothers me to the point of needing a cane again. Of course people judge, but where were they when I needed a cane? Yes, I wear heels(not when I needed the cane ), believe me they are only worn as "sittin shoes".
A friend of mine was sent to the VA about 4 years ago. They were a patient on the Med-Surg floor. I was shocked at the slack in care. Me and friend that was with me had to clean the room, change the sheets, and help the patient shower. On the other hand, it was a VA Dr. who actually suggested to me during a physical to get compensated for an injury I had since AIT. Her documentation got me 50%.
LS,I am sure you mean well.
ns
I'm find with that ns.
Chief
Ok, so there is a pastor in the Graham church with "mental issues", I would like to know who that is, I understand Chief cannot say but does anyone else on this blog know for a fact who it is, not speculation, because lets face it, we could say in hindsight that all the Graham preachers, ie davis, kekel might have these kinds of issues, if they can go around treating people the way that it is described in this forum. One could really say they do, because you can't preach about being saved and then treat people like they are garbage. So, who is this preacher with mental issues?
Nobody said that this pastor with mental issues was from graham.
Chief only mentioned that he knows of a pastor in the ntcc that gets disability as a veteran of the armed forces, and, by the looks of him, he acts like there is nothing wrong with him, specially when he preaches.
When chief mentioned this to another ntcc minister, this ntcc minister said that the disability wasn't physical but mental.
Anonymous said...
Ok, so there is a pastor in the Graham church with "mental issues"
Chief said...
I'll have to re-read my statement but I'm confident that I didn't say that the pastor was in the Graham church. He is not nor does he live in Washington. Anonymous-2 rightly recounted my statement. I don't know that the guy has mental issues. I do know with 99.9999% certainty that he does get 100% disability because he told me directly and I was told by a different NTCC minister that his disability was mentally related.
Chief
Sorry Chief, I was incorrect, I apologize for assuming that you where talking about a minister in Graham which was not the situation.
Also, in no way do I want to perpetrate lies on this blog, only the truth.
Anonymous said...
Sorry Chief, I was incorrect
Chief said...
No big deal at all. We are all human. The last person that I knew who claimed to be perfect was RWD when he proudly proclaimed, "I can't remember the last time I sinned and everything is do is by the holy spirit."
Chief
I started cracking up about the point imaginary Kekel was saying that the horse was more obedient. This is SO close to the actual truth. A couple of conferences ago Kekel was going on and on about why God killed the Egyptian's horses when Moses had parted the red sea. It wasn't just a mention, it was like he really wanted that point to stick in our heads. It was so ludicrous that it did stick in mine :D
JM
Do not throw your military career away for the NTCC. Do not allow the NTCC to hinder you from progressing in the military. I military school and or function should absolutely take precedence over any NTCC function. If you don't take heed to my suggestions, I can almost guarantee that you'll regret it one day but for most people that day will be too late. It has been a true honor so serve in the military. It has also be a true disgrace to be a member of the NTCC.
The military I love, the NTCC is despise. If you are a good service member, the military takes very good care of you but if you are a good Christian, the NTCC dumps on you and if you don't know that yet, you will one day. The military provides wonderful benefits, the NTCC provides NONE. The military often has loyal and dependable leaders who encourage you, the NTCC has abusers who use you and nitpick everything you do. The military gives you money and plenty of it, the NTCC takes your money and plenty of it. The military rewards your loyal service with honor, awards, life long medical benefits, great dental benefits while you are on active duty, optical, life insurance, training that can assist you in getting a good job as a civilian. The NTCC millionaires provide you with none of that but rather their system is set up so that you won't ever get those benefits but Kekel will and a few other select insiders. The military gives you paid time off, the NTCC works you into the ground. In the military, (if you are a good soldier) you are told, "great job, you are a great soldier and an asset". In the NTCC (if you are a good soldier) you are told, "no matter what you do, it's never good enough, repent you rotten sinner, if you don't like it here there is the door".
As a result of my military service I have piece of mind and love for my fellow man. As a result of my NTCC service I have regrets and a loss in the faith of my fellow man.
The military will pay me for the rest of my life, the NTCC will work you till the day you die and suck every dime they can get out of you.
I love the military and the people in it, I can't stand the NTCC and I despise the crooks who run it, and you know why? Because they use and abuse and take advantage of the people I love, my fellow service members, my real Brother and Sisters, the people who've proven that they got my back. I salute my brothers and sisters in uniform, I mock the crooks in the NTCC.
Please bothers and sisters, don't give your military career up for the NTCC and don't let the NTCC hinder your progress in the military. Become a Senior NCO or a Field Grade Officer and bask in the honor that the military will bestow upon you as you continue to serve your Nation faithfully.
SFC Collins
United States Army
Ft Benning Georgia
"Home OF The Infantry", who's members I serve with proudly.
These are real men who serve with distinction.
The NTCC sucks. Stop taking advantage of my fellow Brothers and Sisters in uniform. Leave the military alone.
I know what it is to serve with Honor and Distinction and with real men of Honor. Good God I love the United States of America and our wonderful Military. It has been truly an honor to serve our nation.
Thank God in heaven that I'm still able to enjoy such a wonderful glorious military career. I am truly blessed.
Chief
"Do not throw your military career away for the NTCC. Do not allow the NTCC to hinder you from progressing in the military."
I know people who did exactly that. Some who had 10+ years in the Military and the sad part about that is not ONE of those people are now in NTCC. All those years in the Military gone, and why??? Because of the guilt that was put on them by the preacher at NTCC. I'm so glad I didn't go to their lame,stupid,crummy pathetic excuse for a bible school that is non accredited, and an absolute waste of time. I would rather take up underwater basket weaving, or advanced toe nail clipping than subject myself to their screwball, wacky interpretations of what the Bible says.
SFC Collins said:
"Do not throw your military career away for the NTCC. Do not allow the NTCC to hinder you from progressing in the military."
DnA said:
I had 13 years of exemplary service before I threw it all away. I made some very bad decisions that were influenced by my ntcc experiences and wasted all of those years. It's over and done, I've "moved on" and accepted that I can never get those years back.
Why would an E-6 with 13 years of honorary service and a perfect record leave such a career? Because all 13 years were also spent in the ntcc, and my mind was thoroughly messed up. That's what brain-washing does to you. I can say in all honesty that my decision to forsake the military was directly related to my decision to escape from the ntcc. Years of pressure and trying to live up to double standards, but never meeting expectations, while the leadership basked in luxury paid for by the United States military proved to be futile and hopeless.
The ntcc preys on the U.S. Army and other branches of the Military. The ntcc leaders influence military members that the pursuit of military accomplishments is unprofitable and they convince good soldiers to exert their energies to their cause. Military advancement and schooling is discouraged. Anything you volunteer for that takes you away from their cult Home is discouraged. It's a complete disgrace for the ntcc to be allowed to use the military for an ntcc recruiting center. Great careers are destroyed and the opportunities are gone forever.
I highly encourage soldiers not to throw away your military careers in exchange for the ntcc. You are trading Gold for dirt. The ntcc is an organization that is filled with has-beens and burn outs that spend their whole life searching for the approval of the ntcc higher-ups. They will absolutely steal the years of your youth and zap every ounce of Christianity you have and when you finally wake up and realize what has happened to you, it's too late, and you are too old to get it all back.
Congrats to SFC Collins for being a great soldier and thanks for the many years of dedicated and faithful service in the U.S. Army.
DnA
SFC Collins said:
"Do not throw your military career away for the NTCC. Do not allow the NTCC to hinder you from progressing in the military."
DnA said:
I had 13 years of exemplary service before I threw it all away. I made some very bad decisions that were influenced by my ntcc experiences and wasted all of those years. It's over and done, I've "moved on" and accepted that I can never get those years back.
Why would an E-6 with 13 years of honorary service and a perfect record leave such a career? Because all 13 years were also spent in the ntcc, and my mind was thoroughly messed up. That's what brain-washing does to you. I can say in all honesty that my decision to forsake the military was directly related to my decision to escape from the ntcc. Years of pressure and trying to live up to double standards, but never meeting expectations, while the leadership basked in luxury paid for by the United States military proved to be futile and hopeless.
The ntcc preys on the U.S. Army and other branches of the Military. The ntcc leaders influence military members that the pursuit of military accomplishments is unprofitable and they convince good soldiers to exert their energies to their cause. Military advancement and schooling is discouraged. Anything you volunteer for that takes you away from their cult Home is discouraged. It's a complete disgrace for the ntcc to be allowed to use the military for an ntcc recruiting center. Great careers are destroyed and the opportunities are gone forever.
I highly encourage soldiers not to throw away your military careers in exchange for the ntcc. You are trading Gold for dirt. The ntcc is an organization that is filled with has-beens and burn outs that spend their whole life searching for the approval of the ntcc higher-ups. They will absolutely steal the years of your youth and zap every ounce of Christianity you have and when you finally wake up and realize what has happened to you, it's too late, and you are too old to get it all back.
Congrats to SFC Collins for being a great soldier and thanks for the many years of dedicated and faithful service in the U.S. Army.
DnA
Thank you, sincerely. Don and Ange will always be soldiers. Maybe not in body, (i.e. currently wearing a uniform) but certainly in spirit having served their country faithfully with distinction. I don't think either one of them would have got out of the Army had it not been for the NTCC; they both had good careers goind. They would both probably be Sergeants Major or Warrant Officers had they remained in the military. Don and Ange are both patriots. We all make mistakes and I'm confident that the vast majority of Don and Ange's are a direct result of their involvement with the NTCC. We continue this blog with the hope that others can learn from our mistakes and not make the same. We speak from experience.
SFC Collins
I remember very well the fact that I was agonizing over going to Bible College, and wondering if I was "Running from God" because I decided not to go. But I just could not justify my going because I knew that if I did go it would only be because I was following the masses. I had bouts of depression,anxiety, and just wondering if I would get into some kind of accident because I would be "weighed in the balances, and found wanting." I got the opportunity to tell Mike Kekel what I thought about his "Sorry excuse for a Bible College" when I saw him a few years ago. The Military was not my cup of tea. I'm not going to mince words about that either. But looking back, I would rather have spent 20 years in the Military than have spent any time at all in NTCC! But, the flip side of that is the fact that I have friends all over the Country that will last a lifetime. That is the good side of it. It really bothers me to hear what has happened to some of the people, and what bothers me even more is the fact that NTCC doesn't give a Rats A55 about it. They keep preaching, and the women keep wearing their beehive hairdo's, and nothing has changed.(Spiritually, that is)
Thats right, nothing I mean nothing has changed here in Graham, the whole town thinks that this church as just a bunch of weirdos, do you know why, because they look like weirdos, especially the women, I remember a few years ago, one Saturday night, people where throwing rocks at cars just before the 7:30 service. Yes, rocks, the NTCC is not well liked or received here. Sure people are cordial, but this church has a bad reputation, I found out later. People around here want nothing to do with the NTCC in Graham. Knocking on doors around here is a complete waste of time.
I'm sure they think they are being persecuted. If they are, it's not because of how they are living, with all the divorces and other scandals. It's not because of the great example of love that they exhibit towards the community. It's not the preaching of the cross, but rather the preaching at the crossed, who are actually not really crossed up, just mixed up.
Kekel can't help himself. He is not saved. Therefore, when he preaches to the people that he is supposed to love, (sinners and Christians alike), he says really stupid things. Blasting people is more of a priority than restoring people. We are talking about a man that knew that a local reporter (Bruce Smith) was going to be in his church service, but couldn't control his tongue and talked about filthy evil children throwing hissy fits in the Grocery store. I'm not sure if I quoted that word for word but I know it's pretty close.
Kekel has a history of saying some really stupid things and preaching about stuff that has nothing to do with Christianity. The problem is that Kekel is a narcissist. A Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental condition that blinds the impaired individual to his own faults and failures and allows him to demand perfection out of others. Kekel has this disorder and it controls him. He in turn, feels he has to control everyone else. Normal people that come out to Kekel's wacked out church often see him for what he is, and leave with a bad taste in their mouth. I'm not sure how many if any have come out to Graham services and converted to the ntcc's Pharisaical religion, but I would guess the numbers are pretty low. It would be interesting to hear from someone who recently departed from Graham, or has current knowledge of how many new souls are reached and converted to their fanatic sect, specifically in Graham.
DnA
Well, I ca say this, Kekel is not a likeable man at all, on any counts. He does come across as a really arrogant individual. Narcissistic, who knows. But I guess when he married Davis's daughter, he really made it. He definately lives big and mighty here. He has a beautiful home, lots of money, nice cars, but he is cold as ice. He never has ever come across the way I thought a Pastor of a church should be, caring and kind to his congregation, his family or his community. I'm glad I left. You could not pay me to go back.
Kekel is a rich, spoiled punk who's had everything fed to him with a silver spoon. Quite simple. The ntcc is not a church. It's a money making scam.
I have some questions and answers:
Is Kekel monetarily wealthy because he is a Godly man?
No, evidence shows he isn't Godly when he bragged about messing around with Tanya when she was yet a young teenager.
Is Kekel monetarily wealthy because he's worked hard on a job?
No, evidence shows that he probably hasn't worked on a job for at least about 3 decades.
Is Kekel monetarily wealthy because he has skills that other people don't possess?
No, evidence shows that all his wealth is a direct result of the money that NTCCers have so completely sacrificed to give.
Is Kekel wealthy solely as the result of his own personal merits?
No, evidence shows that Kekel's wealth is the direct result of who he married and who is father-in-law is.
Is there any reason to believe that Kekel would be wealthy has he not married Tanya?
No, evidence shows that the vast majority of other NTCC ministers (with few exceptions) have had to move around so much (certainly with the exception of Kekel) that they've never been able to be stable long enough and save enough money to become wealthy.
So panel, what have we concluded?
Kekel has not had to move and relocate which clearly has resulted in him more effectively being able to accumulate money.
Kekel is not Godly so Godliness certainly didn't play a part in him obtaining wealth.
Kekel is married to RWD's daughter and he was given the Graham church which entitled him to a considerable portion of money that comes into the NTCC.
Kekel hasn't' worked on a real job so that potential factor didn't have anything to do with him accumulating wealth.
Verdict: Kekel is only rich because of a bunch of suckers who at certain times couldn't see that the NTCC is no more than a family business which has funneled a great deal of money directly into the Kekel's bank accounts.
SFC Collins
That is obvious to me now Jeff. But, not always, this blog helped open my eyes to the corruption of the NTCC. Of course, if he had not married Tanya Kekel, he would probably be back in Michigan, or wherever he is from back east. But no, he would NOT be a millionaire, that is for sure. He is laughing, laughing all the way to the bank, while his poor congregants and BS students live mostly below the poverty line. Yes, he has no real job, I wonder what this man does all day, probably he is on the sinnernet. What a joke.
Oh, and by the way, he did not come from wealth either, I remember him saying over the pulpit his Mom has duct tape on her toilet seats. I thought, why would he even admit that? Can this millionaire not buy his Mother a better house? That spoke louder than any action he could have done. He truly is void of all decency.
Well, obviously he couldn't buy his mother a new toilet seat because he would be contributing to her sin.
In the ntcc, you can only go so far until you become just like all the board members. You have to sear your conscience with a hot iron to become ice cold like RWD, MCK, JA, JO and company. They will think nothing of letting their families live in Squalor as is the case with most of their so called brethren in the Lord. I understand that there is such a thing as personal responsibility, but is that really honoring your mother and father when you are filthy rich and the woman that gave birth to you has to sit on a toilet seat that's duct taped together? Kekel does not comprehend what charity is all about. His wife is spoiled rotten, has never worked a day in her life and neither of them understand words like love, patience, kindness, long suffering, gentleness; you know the attributes of normal Christians.
I wonder how Kekel or Davis would have treated the Samaritan woman at the well? I think they would have avoided her like they avoid soul winning and praying. That's somebody else's job. Jesus offered her something that money can't buy and he offered her living water with no strings attached. He didn't tell her she had to pay for it. He didn't tell her that she was going to die and split hell wide open for having 5 husbands and presently living in Fornication. Obviously she was changed because she went and told everyone about Jesus and they all came out to hear him for themselves. And guess what? Jesus never collected a dollar worth of tithe money nor did he take up an offering.
If he did, he wouldn't have had a nice horse or one of the best camels on the desert plains, or perhaps a new Cadillac every year, but instead he rode in on the colt of an ass. He didn't have a place to rest his head, not to mention a 1.1 million dollar mansion. He had to borrow a place for the last supper, because he didn't have a big church edifice with fellowship halls and slaves to take care of it all.
The ntcc is a perfect example of everything Jesus was against and the leaders of the ntcc are exactly the same as the hypocrites that Jesus preached against. Graham is a big cesspool of hypocrisy.
DnA
Does anyone remember the rifle slug that went through the chapel at the bottom of the hill?
"Does anyone remember the rifle slug that went through the chapel at the bottom of the hill?"
I didn't know about that. But someone did shoot at The Little White House when it was the girls' dorm. The round went through the wall above the porch light. Eric Barden and I saw the hole in the building when we moved in after the girls' moved out. I think the shooter also damaged a phone junction box across the Orting-Kapowsin Highway from that chapel with the globe on it. That's what I was told at the time. I personally did not see that damage; but did see the hole from the round in the girls' dorm.
Yes, I remember it just missed the cross. That was 2003 maybe. I think it happened during a conference week.
Eric
Tanya Kekel. What a spoiled little brat with a sense of entitlement. She has never been out on her own and has been riding a crest of a wave her daddy created.
I don't know when it will be, but all I will say is that life can be very,very cruel at times. Everyone has to pay their dues at some point and time. I don't know when her time will be, But it is coming. And when it does, It will hit HARD!!!
I'm not so certain that either her or RWD's time will ever come here on this earth. Some folks just manage to get over indefinitely and I suspect that Tanya is going to be one of them. Money can buy a whole lot when you have it. That includes purchasing security. At the worst, what is a lawyer when you have millions and a steady supply that doesn't end.
RWD devised the best scam that I've ever witness bar none.
chief said: Money can buy....that includes purchasing security.
which reminded me of where tk would seat.
It seemed that she and grant or mck when he would not preach would always sit in between the malones.
One on either side of them.
the malones are tall and not your average size people, they almost looked like bodyguards around them.
Cool observation but I don't think she sat between the Malones for that reason at all. I'd bet my last dollar that she was trying to portray the image of a civil rights activist. I'd bet. There is an angle to everything those crooks do. Everything has a purpose. She wanted to portray an image of the rich white lady who sits between two black folks. How grand. Such an advocate for equality. Mumbo Jumbo. If RWD, Tanya and Kekel want to portray equality, they need to start by discontinuing their racist practice of forbidding that blacks and whites marry!!! Don't patronize the black folks by sitting between them in church so you can act like some civil rights advocate.
They are so fake it's unbelievable. Sit in between two black people just to portray an image that you are someone you are not! Sit in between just to listen to your husband and father refer to them as niggers? RWD has done it and so has Kekel.
Chief
B I N G O!
Hey Anonymous:
I like your B I N G O cause I certainly won the prize on that one. That is the way the NTCC operates. They over analyze everything they do. Talk to this one, don't talk to that one. Talk to folks who just started coming to the church, ignore people who are faithful and have been around for a while. Sit next to this one, don't sit next to that one. It's all about the image you portray. If you are the founders daughter and you are white, sit in between two black people so others will think you are some grand loving civil rights advocate who runs the "church of all nations". What a bunch of garbage.
She is only doing that because the money that comes from black people spends the same as money that comes from whites. "Oh look at how loving Tanya is, she loves everyone the same, black or white".
She loves money from blacks and whites just as long as they don't try to marry each other. Those crooks make me sick.
Chief
Chiefster said,
"She loves money from blacks and whites just as long as they don't try to marry each other. Those crooks make me sick."
Ain't that the truth! They don't want blacks and whites to marry. If the couple ignores the rule and gets married, ntcc tries to keep them out of Bible School. Unless they own Real Estate, like the Merz. Then they can go to Washington and supply lots of tithe and apartments for bible school students. But they won't go anywhere. The marriage will be destroyed. The one with the money will be encouraged to stay. The one without the money will be, well, without. Sick group that calls themselves Christians but destroys the ones Christ died for!
So, if I was at the NTCC in Graham, I went to bible college and met a black man also in bible college, and we wanted to marry. Would they forbid me to marry him? If I was a white member and I wanted to marry another member who was black, would they refuse to perform my wedding at the church as well? If not, on what grounds would they refuse? This is an important question for me to know the answer to.
In the past pastors have refused to marry black-white couples, especially if they were going to bible school. davis taught in conference that "limits the ministry"--a direct quote of what davis said.
So based on past experience, yes, they would refuse to perform the ceremony for you. That happened to the Merz. Of course now, umpteen years later, the local pastor of the Merz feels terrible because he knows better. Back in the eighties he was a babe in Christ following the teachings of the "man of gawd" aka davis the racist.
davis must not know his bible very well. God smote Miriam, the sister of Moses, with leprosy when she and their brother Aaron were murmuring because Moses married a black Ethiopian woman.
Obviously God had no trouble blessing the ministry of Moses with his black wife. davis is a fool to teach his prejudice as a bible-based doctrine. Then he would stand behind the pulpit and say, "Now all you n*ggers..." and then try to justify his sinful prejudice and say, "They that love the lord, nothing shall offend them. Well, Jesus said,
Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Mar 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of [these] little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
Luk 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Clearly the Lord teaches that little ones can be offended. So for davis it would be better for him to have millstone hanged about his neck and for him to be cast into the sea! Because he has offended plenty of these little ones!
Oh, and don't buy off on the, "Well that was under The Old Man / davis dynasty. We are under a New Regime now with kekel and kinson at the helm." Puh-leez! They are one and the same. I sat in kekel's class in the library at the Graham so-called bible school and watched him open a huge can of discord among brethren by asking, "Who used to be prejudice before you got saved? Raise those hands."
Now imagine if you were a brother or sister struggling with that issue and now you had to go home to the dorm and look at these folks who raised their hands and try to believe that they have surrendered all to Christ. Talk about discord! There is no good reason for asking such a question. It just stirs up strife. But that is kekel's nature anyway. Like him looking at Debbie Reed and snarling, "What are you looking at?" What kind of Christianity is that? kekel's a kook! And a hateful bird. Have you ever seen him be genuinely nice? I'm not talking about butt-kissing his father-in-law or trying to score with tanya. But sincerely nice to say somebody who needed help or mercy or compassion? His whole demeanor is and always has been MEAN. Who wants to follow that? That's the world. But that is not Jesus or Christianity.
You don't have to tell me Kekel is mean, you can see it. I have spent the past 13 years listening to his fire and brimstone preaching, as I have said before, he does not come across as a compassionate caring pastor of a church, in fact, he is the exact opposite of that. I would never have gone to him with any concerns I had in my life, as a Christian you want to feel you can talk to your pastor. Not this one. I remember someone saying to me many years ago, Pastor Kekel is such a blessing, I thought to myself, HOW? how is this man a blessing? It was almost like a saying she used. A canned script. Now all these years later I know it was.
Also, on another note Washington is a very diverse state as far as interracial marriage and couples are concerned. People think nothing of seeing a mixed couple here. Why Davis would feel it would hurt the ministry of God is pure garbage, it is his own narrow minded views, are they concerned about knocking on doors? a mixed couple cannot knock on doors? What? This is rediculous. This is the west coast and interacial marriages and children as well as biracial people are everywhere. This is their own non christian views, this has nothing to do with christianity. They need to PRAY!!!!
Anonymous asked...
So, if I was at the NTCC in Graham, I went to bible college and met a black man also in bible college, and we wanted to marry. Would they forbid me to marry him?
Chief said...
Yes, they would forbid that you marry a black man if you are a white woman. The only exception would be if the NTCC has changed relatively recently. They probably wouldn't refuse to perform the wedding but your black husband would have little or no chance at ever becoming a pastor. You would get MAX pressure placed upon you by the NTCC leadership to abstain from marrying. They would not make it easy on you. They would fight you every step of the way. I know this from personal experience. If that has changed, it's sure something relatively new. I had two different NTCC pastors make it very clear that as a white guy, I was NOT to entertain the possibility of any relationship with a black woman; PERIOD, POINT BLANK, PLAIN AND SIMPLE, END OF STORY, ALL IN ALL DONE!!! I third pastor made it clear that it would be unlikely that I'd ever pastor.
I'm not making this stuff up.
Chief
Anonymous said...
Why Davis would feel it would hurt the ministry of God is pure garbage.
Chief said...
Precisely. I don't believe he feels that way at all. Having heard how he has a history of throwing the "n" word around, I think he is a racist plain and simple. As I've continually said; I think he deals with black folks because there are plenty of black people in the military and their money spends the same as whites. Black people comprise to large a percentage of his recruiting market. All the racist black jokes that are told around the NTCC, (which I have personally heard), the refusal to accept black and white interracial marriages, the liberal use of the "n" word, the practice of white NTCC pastors making racist comments about black peoples hair, lips and butts points clearly to racism in the New Testament Christian Church. What in the world else should you call it? Loving kindness? Not hardly!!!
Chief
Going back to this question, would the borg forbid us to marry (black/white). Here's a copy of the minister's testimony that not only did he not perform the ceremony for Kelly Merz and Cherlyn, but HE WAS TOLD NOT TO BY NONE OTHER THAN r-w-d-bag-davis:
"Kelly Merz came to our church in Clarksville, Tn. when he prayed for salvation. RWD told me, that I could not perform his marriage to Cheryl, because of the “ministry” ?!?! He also told me I couldn’t bring the blind brother from Ohio to the Camp meeting. Well, I wish I had performed kelly’s marriage ceremony for him, but I did bring the blind man to camp! I wanted him to get what I had, because what I had was real."
You see how it is in the ntcc. davis doesn't want interracial black white marriages. And olson teaches, "Brethren, Pastor Davis IS the organization." Phooey. Keep it.
They also don't want anyone they deem infirm like the blind man. Imagine if Christ were like that! Blind Bartimaeus would have never received his sight. But he did. We really should call him Healed Bartimaeus or Seeing Bartimaeus. Anyway, it's a good thing God is not like what the ntcc portrays as Christianity!
ntcc also does not want the financially poor people to get saved either. davis taught not to invite the homeless or poor people with sheets or blankets for curtains to church because "You don't build a church that way."--r.w. davis He also says, "I don't give money to them. That's Gawd's money." So why is it davis doesn't mind spending so much of "God's money" on his Cadillac habit???
Fact is, davis doesn't want a church, a body of believers in Christ. davis wants a group of easily controlled G.I.s with dependable income sources and obedient mindsets. davis built his dynasty off the payroll of these G.I.s one tithe cash payment at a time. ntcc truly is a money-making real estate corporation, not a church!
Well, let's say a new bible school student is thinking, "So what if davis is prejudiced? That old man retired back in 2004."
REALLY?? Then somebody PUHLEASE explain why is it that
DAVIS LIVES IN A MANSION VALUED AT $1.1 MILLION DOLLARS OWNED BY THE 'NON-PROFIT' ntcc???
Not only that, kekel is just as prejudiced as davis. Can't tell you how frequently kekel would rag on people of color, talking about "ebonics" , using examples like "2+2 be 4" and that respect is pronounced "respeck" in "ebonics". He did also call certain music "monkey music". And just try showing up to church with some cornrows in your hair or an Afro or anything other than a 1950 white man's interpretation of a preacher's hairdo and see what happens. You'd see the borg leaders come unglued. Try wearing a suit that doesn't look like it came from a Sears rack and see what happens. Wear something other than wingtips to church and see what happens. smh
And please explain what you think davis meant when he said over and over:
"If a white man marries a black woman, he has low self-esteem."
WOW! What is he really saying about the Sisters? HELLO! Think about it folks. This is YOUR ntcc . org!
I surmise that Rear Wheel didn't want that blind guy at conference because it might illustrate his powerlessness as an "apostle." We were regaled often with tales of signs and wonders following his ministry. Once he told us he healed a boy in the Philippines who had been born deaf by spitting on his fingers and sticking them in the kid's ears. I guess we were supposed to think he was walking around like Jesus, healing people and casting out demons. Yet none of us ever witnessed any of these alleged miracles. Oh, there would be testimonies about how God healed a headache or back pain or some other non-verifiable ailment, but there were no crippled folks throwing away their crutches...or blind eyes being opened, either. He's a charlatan and a liar, and I personally don't believe his tall tales of angelic visitations and audible divine voices. We were just so sincere and hungry for God that we lapped up his drivel like it was the sermon on the mount. But in reality, he's just a modern day Elmer Gantry.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
I guess they lifted the mix race marriage thing. I was there and saw plenty of interracial couples. I saw some white man/black woman couples. I don't know if these couples got a "talking" to but they were married there in the church.
I don't know if it was true but I was always told it was easier for white women to marry outside of thier race than black women Although both weren't promoted, black women were more at a disadvantage. It was shared with me that the whites basically had more freedom in that regard.
LS
LS said...
I guess they lifted the mix race marriage thing.
Chief said...
There was never a ban on mix race marriages. The NTCC leadership just didn't want any part of it taking place and they weren't going to advocate the husband becoming a pastor if he was part of a "black and white" couple. That was the issue. If you were already married they'd take your money too but don't expect to pastor. If you weren't already in a black, white marriage but you expressed the desire to be, and you were already in the NTCC, that is when the opposition would start from the NTCC leadership.
The excuse they gave was bogus because the NTCC has never had a problem with the practice of "running people off". They claimed they didn't want people to get run off as the result of seeing a black and white couple in the ministry. I don't buy it and RWD is full of crap.
Chief
In Graham, now that I think of it, there is a lot of white/hispanic, white/Korean, but very few white/black couples that where ministers. I mean, I can count on one hand the amount of what I thought where ministers married to black women. And no black men married to white wome. This now says to me Davis and Kekel somehow did not mind whites/hispanics, whites/Koreans, but they obviously did not like whites/blacks marrying. Of course if you are "just a member" then who cares right? They seemed to have no problem with me and my black spouse, however, come to find out they probably thought, what is wrong with this person? he/she must not think much of themselves. This is a sad testament to a church I thought was really a "christian" church. I guess I really did let the name fool me. Because their actions don't speak "christian" at all. How do these people stand up at that pulpit in Graham, preaching about being saved and hide these contemptful feelings towards their fellow christians because of the color or their skin. It disgusts me to think I was part of this church.
Yes, that is true. I saw a few couples there.
For the most part those that I saw going out to a work to help or pastor were those where the difference wasn't that palpable.
Maybe they were very lightskinned, and were married to a hispanic or other ethnic race.
To say that "there were plenty" is a little much.
Anonymous said...
I mean, I can count on one hand the amount of what I thought where ministers married to black women.
Chief said...
Of course being a regular minister and being a pastor in the NTCC are two totally different things. When I first started attending church with the NTCC I had two different pastors make it clear that I was not to entertain dating or marrying black women as an option. These two guys didn't mix any words, I can promise you. If I would have got married anyway, without their blessing and the blessing of the NTCC leadership, I could forget about ever pastoring. One of the pastors said, he wouldn't even give his recommendation that I attend the NTCS as the direct result of me talking to a black woman only "one" time on the telephone and me not telling him about it. What kind of control freak garbage is that?
RWD has a real problem with black and white marriages, I'm telling you and once again, his reasoning isn't justified and I'm convinced the creep is a racist. Some folks may think that notion is crazy but three is plenty of evidence to support my views on that one. Like, I've said, the racist insensitive black jokes too frequently told by NTCC leaders, the "n" word being thrown around by Davis and Kekel, racial slurs being directed toward black people, the opposition to black and white marriages. It's actually pretty obvious when you look at the body of evidence that clearly exists. The testimonies from black people who've been dogged and humiliated. You can find the testimonies right here on this blog. I didn't dream this stuff up.
Chief
Anon said, I remember someone saying to me many years ago, Pastor Kekel is such a blessing, I thought to myself, HOW? how is this man a blessing? It was almost like a saying she used. A canned script. Now all these years later I know it was.
The Bible says from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, and his heart is revealed. He's an evil taskmaster who has a strange way of showing what they call love out there in that cult like church. What a blessing, you are right that is a canned script coming out of a conditioned mind.
Well, they must have really looked down on me and my biracial children, all the while smiling to my face saying. "Oh, how cute they are" hypocrites. Thats all I can say...
I remember the stares and confused looks of the people that hadn't met the husband of this girl, which is the daughter of a well known minister in the ntcc.
She got married to a blue eyed white guy. I mean, he is very caucasian looking.
Many knew she had gotten married but since she was in WA not so many people knew who the husband was but at a conference alot of people were coming to her and saying they wanted to meet the husband and when the guy came by you should've have seen the surprise in the faces of these older ministers and their wives!
Yup, a bunch of bigots.
Chief
I'm not sure if it was bigotry. It had to do with what they were taught about not marrying somebody outside your color, because it can't be about race, for I've seen mexicans and whites and filipinos with whites, but here you have the daughter of this black minister who has been around a long time and surely she knows this but ends up falling in love with a man who is white and you have these old school ntcc ministers looking like somebody moved their cheese.
It wasn't about marrying outside your color. It was about BLACKS AND WHITES marrying. The NTCC leadership doesn't care about the other races. They don't care about Hispanics and Whites or Filipinos and Whites marrying. All that stuff is ok in any combination, but Blacks and Whites marrying is a whole different story with RWD and crew. My dad fought in WWII. One time he told me that he didn't care who I married but I better not come home with a Japanese woman. He fought them for about 4 years so right or wrong, I understood.
Well Davis is the same way about Blacks. There was no way on Gods green earth that Tanya was marrying a Black man. Not a chance. I'm telling you, RWD is a racist and specifically against blacks. He deals with them because their money spends just like everyone else's. If Davis doesn't have a problem with Blacks then why is it that they are the only people he has a problem with if they marry whites or visa versa? Why does he think it's ok for whites to marry every other race but blacks? Why would he say a white man has low self esteem if he marries a black woman? Cause he is a racist, plain and simple.
Chief
Personally, I think davis has "a thing" [lust] for Latina and Asian women. Not to marry. But to treat as a concubine, shall we say. That's being polite. It's probably more like a stop by the brothel. Why travel overseas without your wife? Why take men who have been accused of being unfaithful to their wives? Why have "missions works" only in these nations where prostitution is so prominent? Japan? The Philippines? Puerto Rico? Panama? Guam? Korea. Come on, now!
Did you ever notice the ntcc only has 'mission' works where there were (a) military bases and (b) Latina or Asian women? Look at Tanya's eyes. She's probably rodger davis' biological daughter; and just like someone else shared her mother is Filipina. I really believe she is the physical daughter of davis, the illegitimate child of an adulterous affair that ended his first marriage.
Of course that's just speculation. But I'd love to send rodger's and tanya's DNA samples to Jerry Springer and get the test results! It wouldn't be hard to get that sample. Just lift a hair off her shoulder next time she gives you one of those phony hugs and tells you how much she "loves" and "appreciates" you. And collect rodger's cup after he's drained that Maxwell House instant coffee he's so fond of. It wouldn't be hard at all. Any volunteers? Just bag it and tag it and we'll be in business. ;-)
Back to the missions point. Obviously military bases are targeted for the money that the G.I.s make and the G.I.s obedient mindset.
But other than that there also seems to only be works where Latina or Asian women are "available". Why aren't there ntcc African missions? Hmmn? Aren't those people dying and going to hell too? How about it ntcc?
I mean really, back to the DNA test results. tanya was only searching for her birth mother on the adoption registry site. So that seems to indicate she already knows "Who's your Daddy?"
Then there was that stunning likeness between tanya and rodger exhibited in the "Who Dat" photo. "spittin' image" comes to mind.
So what does this matter? Well, if you are a normal soul who adopts it means nothing. God love you for adopting and giving a child a great home.
But when you're rodger davis who claims to be a holiness preacher but has multiple allegations of adultery against him; and when rodger wilson davis makes his bread and butter off telling you "children hinder the work of gawd", well now, that's a whole 'nother ball of wax. Such a cruel and wacky public figure as davis deserves lots of public scrutiny for his false doctrines and hypocritical double standards.
I decided a long time ago I didn't want to marry a puppet. Or someone that wanted me to fit into a certain mold. I found it weird that you couldn't get to know someone without permisssion or for that matter really get to know someone before you got married.
When I realized that I was atracted to men with a short faux hawk or facial hair, I knew I was in the wrong place.
It went beyond white/black for me. I want someone with a simliar personality as myself. Not only would I have to "fight" to be with someone I wanted but then they wouldn't even have that free personality I craved. I said bye to that.
LS
Good move, LS. God didn't make us to be robots or puppets.
There is no doubt in my mind, Tanya is RW Davis's daughter, the older she gets, the more you can see it.
On another note, in Graham, I see plenty of bs students come in with their new wives, from other parts they just show up with them, and guess what, they either marry their own race, or they marry asian women. No black white couples at all. Hmmm...
"I really believe she is the physical daughter of davis, the illegitimate child of an adulterous affair that ended his first marriage."
You're timeline's off on that; Rear Wheel was married to Verna when they went to the Philippines. She probably has a pretty good idea of the truth, but he keeps her in Cadillacs and mansions, and we all know (right from the horse's ass) that any woman who leaves him will only get the clothes on her back (although a good lawyer could make him eat those words, especially in a community property state like Washington. But then maybe that's why he doesn't keep any assets in his own name. He's sneaky like that).
Forget about cadillacs, Davis, is driving better vehichles now, but I think because of his and Verna's age, their daughter with the BMW does all the driving now. As far as I can tell, Verna no longer drives and Davis is close to that as well. I think at this point he just gets chauffered around. I wish someone could get us a photo of Kekels new house, I for one would like to see what it looks like. From what I hear, it is beautiful.
Of course it's beautiful. Off the backs of a bunch of struggling NTCCers. That's how they operate.
Vic quoted us saying,
"I really believe she is the physical daughter of davis, the illegitimate child of an adulterous affair that ended his first marriage."
Then Vic helped us get the trimeline correct by saying:
"You're timeline's off on that; Rear Wheel was married to Verna when they went to the Philippines."
DnA say,
Okay, Thanks, Vic. We do want the correct info. So rdub was married to verna when they adopted tanya in the Phillipines.
Now let's see if anyone knows anything about rdub's other wife, his first wife? Name? Time of marriage and divorce? Details? And on those details, are they just the story that davis circulated about her once his divorce became public knowledge?
I've often heard that davis left the Pentecostal church because of "compromise". That's really a joke in view of ntcc's current "compromise". But really, I believe, davis was probably run out of the Pentecostal church because he was an adulterer. Some have given an account that davis left the Pentecostal church because they did not want him to start a bible school since he was marrried after divorce. I believe that there is much truth in that. But like all stories davis circulates, he probably played with the truth to twist it. For instance, he would leave out his adultery as the cause of his divorce and real reason why the Pentecostal church wouldn't want him in their ranks as a minister. This seems so very likely with the testimonies of davis committing adultery. Then davis turns and twists the story to say, "the PCG didn't want me because I got married after divorce." neglecting to mention his adulterous actions. Then according to testimony of those who were there, double-D was one if I recall correctly, davis goes up and down the classroom asking each person one at a time "Would God send an adulterer to start a Bible School?" He gets each person to answer, "No." and at the same time is twisting the truth, hoping they will interpret this to mean that God sent him to start a bible school so he couldn't be an adulterer. But the truth is, "No. God would not send an adulterer to start a Bible School." But since rdub is an adulterer, we know God did not send him; this is not God's Bible School!
I think we need to ask ourselves, Would God want us to attend a church where the preachers claim to be "saved and filled with the holy ghost" and yet these kinds of accusations are on their heads day in day out. I think not. Find another church, FAST.
Senior Pastor Davis says...
• "I can't remember the last time I sinned."
• "All I do is by the Holy Ghost."
• "I have never missed God."
• "I've never seen a homosexual or Puerto Rican get saved."
• "The ministry is a business."
• "Don't bring homeless people to church, they don't have any money."
• "...if you have a problem with me, you have a problem with God."
• "I may forgive; but I never forget!"
Anonymous, we also need to ask our self..."Would God want me to attend a church where the founder proclaims all the above (or even just one of them)?"
Gregory
That stuff never gets old Greg because it's true. RWD is a blow hard plain and simple and all of us fell for his crap at one time or another. I personally heard RWD make several of those statements and I was a church member.
Gregory said,
"Anonymous, we also need to ask our self..."Would God want me to attend a church where the founder proclaims all the above (or even just one of them)?"
DnA said:
Especially from a fraud who has never produced a set of credentials that anyone has ever seen and runs a non accredited organization that has a success rate of less than 1% in keeping people saved. Ntcc style salvation is believing in RWD's eight principles of leadership that you listed, Greg. SP Kekel, does not have the theatrical skills needed to captivate the masses. He doesn't have the sales skills necessary to convince people to sell their souls to the ntcc. My prediction is that SP Kekel will run the borg into the ground and someone with people skills will need to step in and clean up the mess if there is anything left to salvage.
DnA
Here in Graham, it is already starting to happen, Davis is elderly and really unable to minister the way he once did. So, that leaves Kekel and Kinson. Kekel has NO people skills at all. This is obvious, Kinson does have people skills, however, his credibility is not what it should be. If anyone can save this church it would be Kinson, Malone is like a walking talking robot, Infausto is pretty much the same, all the other board members either say very little or have nothing to say at all. Don't let me get started on Tanya, she is fake and the sincerity is just not there. Gazang, well, its all about the money with him, and more buildings. Thats it, who else is there? I can't think of anyone else who can keep this ship floating, the NTCC really is losing its grip in Graham, except for the bs students, the workers and the people that live on the grounds. This church is starting to die out. Their reputation is not good around here, there are a few faithful members but they are starting to really dwindle. If you aren't in Bible college, a office worker or living on the church grounds, then you are very few and far between. The NTCC empire is starting to crumble, word is getting out. I think people are looking for more than the NTCC can offer them, yelling at its congregation for 1 hour gets old real fast, there is not love, no compassion and forget about finding friends in this church, this is the most unfriendly church I have ever been to. People want these things from their church, not scream fests, fake friends and guilt trips from the pastor. Move on.
Great post Anonymous. You should run the church in Graham. You'd have to start by changing the whole NTCC. The NTCC is a lost cause but an organization full of cash. They've already got rich of everyone so they have no need of people. Quite the successful 40 year scam I must say. Wow!
Chief
I would never run the NTCC in Graham, you could not pay me enough to step in that church again. I'm out.
P.S. I hope they have invested well, they will need it as their cash flow dwindles, oh wait, it probably already has.
It would be interesting if RW's first wife could be located, if she's still alive. No telling what we might learn about him. But I don't think that the divorce/remarriage thing was ever an issue with the PCG, which doesn't prohibit that like the AG. RW told us that PCG wouldn't let him start a bible school because they "didn't want holiness," but never insinuated that his divorce played a part. Of course he really couldn't, since he hid the fact that he'd been previously married from all of us. This fact only became generally known within the last few years. It appears the first marriage occurred before he started pretending to be a Christian, if his testimony that Verna hassled him about going to church when he started can be believed.
"Didn't want holliness"? so what is holiness to Davis anyway? I would love to know, from what I read hear its all about the way you "look" that makes you holy. What about your actions, what about the integrity you have as a Christian? Are you following what the bible says we should do as Christians or is it all an act? I think if the NTCC judged less and worried less about whether or not a person "looks" holy or not, they would be a lot better off. With these people its all about a look, it is not a heart thing, or a love for God. Of course, the money they make is good too.
Anonymous said...
I hope they have invested well, they will need it as their cash flow dwindles, oh wait, it probably already has.
Chief said...
They got plenty of money, make no mistake about that. If every last soul left the church tomorrow, those guys would remain millionaires. They have so much real-estate it's unbelievable. Trust me, money is not a problem with the NTCC leadership.
Chief
gregory,
you forgot a quote:
"I have never seen a hypocrite get saved!".
Network 23
I've never seen RWD get saved. I've never seen Kekel get saved. I've never seen Tanya get saved. I've never seen Olson get saved. So there you have it. I've never seen any of them saved so what you have is the blind leading the blind.
The problem is the church members are the ones who are really blind. They are blindly giving their money away to a bunch of crooks and in that regard the crooks ain't blind.
Chief
Chief, there is a small group of church members that steadfastly will not leave, they know most of the wrongdoings in the NTCC, they know about this blog, and probably read it from time to time. However, they still stay in the NTCC, do you know why? because once they leave, their long friendships cultivated over many years, will be OVER, that is why they stay. This to me is sad, so once you leave, you are basically a forgotten individual or family.
Cont'd You are shut out, could care less, or what have you. Why do these people not see, just because you leave the NTCC does not mean you are not saved or you no longer love God. There is probably people reading this who are doing just that. I always thought to judge another Christian is sin. Why do supposed Christians do this. I ask myself this question alot. I may never know.
Q: I always thought to judge another Christian is sin. Why do supposed Christians do this.
A: They are full of a self-righteous pride. Which they will deny. But they have been taught to think only their group is going to heaven. As if!
Jesus said,
They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.
John 16:2-3
Don an Ange, I feel that it is a "lead me" mentality. These people need to be lead, because of a lack of structure within their family, they get this from the NTCC. I really believe that in some way they FEEL they cannot serve God if they left the NTCC. The NTCC have become "family" for them.
I agree Anonymous.
Chief
To the anon. who is upset because there's many in the ntcc who have stayed and apparently this anon finds it hard to let things go.
If you go out of the ntcc things are gonna be that way like it or not. But to come here and cry and find fault that you are out and no longer friends with them, please!
That is what you wanted, to get out of there, why would you want to stay friends with those that you despise. Enjoy your freedom from the ntcc, but don't come here and throw everybody in the same bunch that they stay because they don't want to let go of friendships! Really?
Do you really believe that? Friendships in the ntcc?
We all know that is not true.
You might have a few close friends but that is rare.
Everybody is trying to outdo the next because that is what's fostered in the org.
Sure they use catchy phrases about "we are winning" or "we love souls" but you know when it comes down to it, it is your own agenda you are working for.
If you say no, you are not telling the truth!
We all have done it at one time or another.
The org. thrives in putting people in competition with each other.
Who has more members, who has a better church, and on and on, because that is what brings people to do more for the org. It is a business, remember?
There's many reason why I choose to stay, friendships is not one of them.
You should be glad and rejoicing that you are out.
Enough said.
Back to your response, I am not upset, but I am surprised that fellow members, not preachers and their wives, but just members who where friends of mine, don't call, don't care. Quite honestly, I thought that these people where not like that, that they where somehow beyond all the NTCC webs of discontent. I have recently left and I am glad of it, but it still dumbfounds me that these people where never really friends at all and we where just another person they got into the NTCC. So, yeah, you could say get over it, but it doesn't make me feel better to know I went to a church as long as I did where I thought people really cared, isn't that what church is suppose to be, you find people who supposedly love God and are genuine people that you can count on, I can find this kind of behaviour in the world, from wordly friends. I did not expect this in a "Christian" church. That shows me how truly unchristian these people really are. So, keep your opinions to yourself. This is a open forum to discuss the NTCC. I am doing just that. Your two cents worth is not warranted and not wanted by me. You sound as nasty as the folks in the NTCC. I left that behind. Keep your nonunderstanding views to yourself, you did not walk in my shoes nor will you ever. And I did not walk in yours. People with your attitude make me want to stop reading or leaving my views on this blog. Enough said.
You're right, I was nasty and a little annoyed because when I read your post it seemed that you were putting all the people that don't leave under the same umbrella.
Thank goodness you have seen the light and sorry if I offended you.
This blog exits because chief allows us to come and vent and write what we have in our hearts.
Thank goodness for that.
Anonymous wrote...
I can find this kind of behavior in the world, from worldly friends.
Chief wrote...
I understood your point but actually folks outside the NTCC really don't behave that way. I have friends/associates outside the NTCC who still stay in contact regardless of our affiliation. The behavior you've described generally doesn't exist among quote, "worldly folks". I find far better friends outside the NTCC then I ever did from the likes of RWD and Kekel. Those guys are fake and the only thing they care about is whether or not you pay tithe. I did understand your point.
Chief
I apologize as well, I have a lot going on in my life and I am trying to do the best I can to understand the NTCC and why I stayed in it as long as I did. I also know I didn't know a lot of the underhanded stuff they do.
I agree that you can find true friends outside of a Church. Again, with all the other NTCC brainwashing, it is just anothing thing we have to let go of. I am trying, with Gods help, to do just that. No hard feelings here.
For all it's worth, as many times as folks to include me have gone back and forth on this blog, there aren't too many apologies necessary. Lot of different opinions around here. No big deal. Feel free to speak your mind. If someone disagrees that is there prerogative and if you disagree with what they said, that's your prerogative. The only thing I don't tolerate on this blog is some NTCCer coming on here and preaching at me with their self righteous stinkin attitude. I have no patience for that. When I left the NTCC, that was the last I was going to put up with that trash.
Chief
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . AMEN!!!
Real friendships aren't threatened by differing beliefs or opinions. I have close friends who are flaming leftists, and some that are even (gasp) gay. And some that find the John Birch Society too liberal. They are all responsible for their own conclusions, and I'm not going to ditch them because they don't necessarily agree with me. We have fantastic arguments, but they don't reject me, and I don't reject them.
Real friendship is sacred. That's why it's so hard to deal with the rejection. But when it occurs, it merely shows us that our friendships were one sided--we were friends to them, but they weren't friends to us. I didn't reject anyone when I left NTCC, but it became quickly apparent that they rejected me. Some, like Eli Gesang, were right up front, stating plainly that they were terminating our friendship because I left the org (aka "the Work of God). Others were just evasive. The handful who didn't reject me, like Casey Hayes, eventually ended up leaving themselves. I believe that one of the main reasons I was run off was that Frank Appolinaro informed the hierarchy that I was maintaining my friendship with Chris Kinson, who had already left. The clear expectation is that we are to have Mike Kekel's attitude, which he describes as regarding those who've departed NTCC as 'enemies.'
NTCC is so parochial. If you don't shuffle around like a zombie following the deluded leadership, it will be noticed. They notice everything. RW even gave me an ersatz lecture about the superiority of wingtip shoes when he saw I didn't wear them. But it didn't work.
Can you believe it? I persisted in the NTCC for sixteen years, and never doffed a pair of wingtips! That has to be some kind of record. You can be sure that any manifestation of individuality will be swiftly detected. It reminded me of a passage in 1984 by George Orwell, where an establishment drone was boasting about how his kids narked out some guy based on the fact he was wearing unconventional shoes. Of course, the kids eventually narked him out too.
Big Pastor is Watching You!
As far as friendship goes...I maintained friendships outside of NTCC. I worked and went to Church. That was my life. I wasn't the typical NTCCer. I listened to Contemporary Christian music. I watched DVDs and had favorite shows/movies. Some would say I had one foot in the world.
But no, I had a life. The people at work became my friends. It got to the point I could be myslef more with them than the people at Church. I would find myself being free, being me. Anyway the people were alwasy respectful because I was Christian..like no cursing, sexual jokes etc. I even had a good friend who was Mormon and one was Oneness (both no-nos). When I wanted to got to lunch and be myself and have fun, I found myself calling my "coworkers".
My job required me to travel to different locations so I made several friends. These were people I could not talk to then call 2 years later and invite to lunch and pick up where we left off. I could reveal the real me, my fears, mistakes, desires without judgment. That is real friendship.
Most of all I was content with my own company, I think that is what kept my sanity. People would talk about all the fellowship they had over the last weekend and I was thinking about the Xmen or Matrix marathon I had. :)
The whole time I was there I was content with not being accepted so when I left as long as I had my sanity and my peace I was cool.
LS
Good for you. It doesn't sound like you ever got totally brainwashed like many of us. NTCC folks are generally fake and your friendships in the org were always conditional. Knock on 90 doors instead of 100 doors and all of a sudden, "You needed to get right with GAWD". "You better not get too close with that brother who knocked on only 90 doors because his heart ain't right and he is rebellious. He was supposed to knock on 100 doors and turn in his report; two copies, hand written. He won't be taking up the offering this Sunday. Maybe he can knock on 100 doors next Saturday, get his heart back right with GAWD and then he can take up the offering again".
Well here is what old Chief the faithful hound dog has to say: "Y'all NTCC crooks can kiss my butt"!!!
By the way and for the record. That was not a historical example of an event that I personally experienced but it wasn't too far off. Benched from taking up the offering or leading songs because of some nonsense, that has happened. Required to knock on 100 doors, that has happened. Required to HAND WRITE two copies of the soul winning report, that has happened. Folks being blacklisted by the NTCC leadership while others were strongly encouraged not to talk to them, that has definitely happened.
Chief
Old Chief the Faithful Hound Dog said:
"It doesn't sound like you ever got totally brainwashed like many of us."
DnA said:
I was among that group that got totally brainwashed and All of my friendships during the 13 years of controlling servitude were inside the ntcc. I will say that I understand all of the points of view that have been shared on this thread. I understand that the ntcc prevents people from having true and lasting friendships. Some of the best friends that I have made have been in the ntcc. I know some will say, a real friend will not forsake you when you leave the church, and this is true but when you are completely brainwashed like I was, you do things that are completely contrary to common sense and you think that you are doing it for the Lord. It was friendships and the fear of losing them that kept me in the ntcc for so long, but it was also the fear of spending eternity in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone. A complete hoax to extract money out of your wallet.
Outside of the ntcc there are no limits placed on friendships and I am now in the greatest relationship I've ever had with my wife. We deeply love each other and this was not allowed while inside the ntcc. But we are best friends also. We laugh and share and reflect on what we've been through. We don't have to worry about some old Snuffleupagus telling us how much we are allowed to love or how we are to conduct our own personal relationship. Even though we struggle with the past abuse due to ntcc and how things could have been 22 years ago, we are grateful that we somehow found each other again.
There you have it. Both points of view and you ain't nothin but a hound dawg.
DnA
I remember in a conference where rw said that he didn't have any friends of best friends, he only had co-laborers in the Lord.
That is what is taught and preached over the pulpit: leave the members alone, I don't want you to become close to them.
You should see the overseers and the preachers. They seat down and as soon as the service is over they leave right away least they get to talking to some member and then they'll get in trouble and be acussed of trying to steal the members.
Yeah, I was totally brainwashed too--except for the wingtips. It was the only toehold of individuality I retained, and eventually it grew stronger and was able to break the control freak shackles that held me. But I hated wingtips. I hated them then, and I still hate them. In fact, I have never owned a pair in my life, and don't plan to get any now. What's with all those holes, anyway?
Really I like to go barefoot, and if I can't, I try to go for the Vibram Fivefingers.
Down with The Man!
Wow, this blog is so informative,it never ceases to amaze me the stuff I read here. As a ex member in Graham, I now really see why I never quite fit in with this church, when I was there I always felt it must be me, in retrospect it wasn't me, it was taught to these people not to get to know me, unless of course, they where told by a pastor. I am so glad I am out of that FAKE church. There was no sincerity there, I always felt that way, but thought well its my negative way of thinking, now the puzzle pieces fit together. Thanks again for this blog Chief, I can't say it enough.
My pleasure and thank you. We all work together on this thing.
Those Vibram Five Fingers look like a glove for your feet. They look comfortable. I would definitely be cast out for sporting designer flip flops around town. I guess I didn't get the fashion memo, but I like my feet to be comfortable. I'm not too concerned what people think any more. My own comfort comes first.
I remember down in Georgia, this helper got plowed for wearing flip flops to the Waffle House. He was told that he looked like a hick. It's not like the Waffle House patrons care what someone is wearing on their feet. Jeff Foxworthy once said his uncle got fired from his position as cook at the Waffle House for poor appearance. What an awful testimony. There is a time when shoes are appropriate but I can't think of any time remaining in my life that clown style wing tips would be necessary. I don't think RWD and friends would have fit in very well with Jesus and his disciples, but they would have made great Pharisees back in the day.
DnA
i got blasted once as well for showing my individuality. it was only to get people to laugh, so i dont' see why ol' kekel the real estate mogul had a problem with it.
There was hierarchy in the Church (members vs. Bible school students vs. ministers vs. high up people). This hierarchy fostered a level of superiority and/or separatism.
The irony of it all (not meant to be disrespectful) is that some of those people taught to shun people within the church (ministers weren’t friends with members) were shunned when they left. It was to be expected. In fact that has been the conditioned behavior from the onset.
There was hierarchy in the Church (members vs. Bible school students vs. ministers vs. high up people). This hierarchy fostered a level of superiority and/or separatism.
The irony of it all (not meant to be disrespectful) is that some of those people taught to shun people within the church (ministers weren’t friends with members) were shunned when they left. It was to be expected. In fact that has been the conditioned behavior from the onset.
(I apologize for double posting but I find it important to "sign" my posting)
LS
Yes, I see it now, it was not obvious to a member but it must have been "taught" to everyone else. Again, this blog helps to shed light on this church for what it really is, a hypocritical bunch of people who are really concerned with impressing a few individuals rather than God. So sad...
Anonymous said...
a hypocritical bunch of people who are really concerned with impressing a few individuals rather than God
Chief said...
And there you have it.
http://bgbcsurvivors.blogspot.com/
A local news item in Portland area... a lady is being sued by a church she left... claiming she defamed them... yeah right... her blog tells a familiar story... like Tracy used to...
Her story went viral.
NY Daily News
Huffington Post
9 News -Colorado- Video
i skimmed it but am on my way to work sounds interesting and similar to ntcc.
does she need any financial help ? i'll give some of rwd's tithe money to her even though he thinks he's a levitcal priest.
That statement about the priesthood is funny.
Here's that address to her blog as a link. It's easier for those who use phones:
Beaverton Grace Bible Church Survivors
That 'church' without grace should be sued for bringing a frivolous lawsuit against someone in an attempt to intimidate her and silcence her 1st Amendment right to free speech!
Then the other survivors and members should bring a class-action lawsuit against that 'church' for the spiritual, emotional, and other abuse levied against them by that so-called pastor, who, allegedly, knowingly permitted sex offenders to have free access to children.
Hmmn. This does sound just like the ntcc!
Anon said,
"does she need any financial help ? i'll give some of rwd's tithe money to her"
She is trying to figure out how to set up a pay-pal account linked to her blog for that very purpose; because she has received many offers for help with the legal fees.
Also, her hit count tripled overnight. Someone suggested to her to include Ad Sense ads on her blog so she did and has asked viewers to help out by clicking those advertisements.
Good for her. She should get paid for her trouble. So should you Chief. :-)
Anonymous said...
Good for her. She should get paid for her trouble. So should you Chief
Chief said...
Hey, I'll take everything I can get but not at the expense of a group of struggling church members and ministers. My pay is people leaving the NTCC. Ad Sense is cool but it doesn't pay that much unless you get a whole bunch of clicks and I would think Google has the means to determine if someone is just clicking away. I would think.
Chief
she can get banned from adsense by asking people to click on the ads. you don't really want that to happen as adsense is an easy way to passive income.
http://www.vandruff.com/mlm.html
NTCC is like MLM where only those at top/ in FIRST make any money! Hmm.. and those at bottom very poor... those at top showcase this "false success" they gained on the backs of those at the bottom...
supposing that GAIN is GODLINESS? I thought it said from SUCH TURN AWAY... (so that's what we did... yippee!)
For any interested, that lady got a Legal Defense Support Account opened. She has a "Donate" button on her blog:
Beaverton Grace Bible Church Survivors
My take on the Cyrus article on Senior Pastor Kekel's Blog, is the main (only) reason he posted it was as a vehicle to showcase the fact that they had a BMW700 series automobile.
Some proof of this is he still hasn't posted anything about the recent death of Pastor Briggs, and his destitute family.
I am sure you all have already figured this out, but this just recently occurred to me.
Gregory
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