9/25/2012

The Plot Thickens

On the previous thread, Bro Edward Bellamy wrote...   

For those of you who were wondering about Rev. and Sister Brill, (yes, this is Rev. Olson's daughter and son-in-law.) They left NTCC a month before I did; approximately March 2011. This is the story behind his leaving.

When Rev. Brill was in the Army, he was diagnosed with cancer. They did surgery and he was medically discharged, but he has been very sick throughout the years. They have now found out that the procedure which was used to remove his cancer will eventually take his life. It makes even getting a common cold life threatening. He had become very sick while Pastoring in Amarillo, Texas. The doctors told him that he needed to stop most activities if he wanted to live. This was around conference time and the doctor also told him that he could get worse if he traveled. He told Pastor Davis that he was not coming to conference, because he was sick. They called him and chewed him out, saying, because Sister. Brill was Rev. Olson's daughter, it would be a bad testimony if they missed conference. So Rev. Brill went back to the doctor and the doctor strongly advised him not to go. So Rev. Brill sent Sister Brill to conference and he stayed home. During conference they called him and chewed him out. So he got on a plane and came to conference.. And just like the doctor predicted he became very sick. He then realized, (like all of us) that they DO NOT care about anyone but themselves, their pride, and their ego. They put his life in danger for show.

Much, much, much more to follow...

Later on the same thread Chief wrote...

You've posted some serious information with this whole Bro Brill situation. I mean just think about it for a moment, (which is what I do, and unfortunately for them, too many people don't).

If Olson's own son in law and daughter got the old "NTCC shaft", why should anyone else think they are exempt? The only ones who are totally exempt are the Kekels and it's apparent that the Kinsons get a break also. Maybe Johnson is more of a man than Olson (which is certain) and maybe he simply won't allow it, but either way, for certain Kinson gets a break also in the NTCC. When I say a break, I mean that he's clearly not been held to the same standard as the average NTCC minion, which also clearly Bro Brill fell into the category of.

I've been writing the words "double standard" for years now and they still ring true with the NTCC leadership. If the NTCC leadership road roughshod on Mr. Brill, then dog gone it, you better get your butt out of bed and get your sick self to conference. If you don't, you're going to get blasted and the NTCC leadership ain't taking no excuses and Bro Brill found that out the hard way.

If you read this message and you are part of the NTCC, you are out of your ever loving mind if you still want to remain part of that crooked, sick, twisted, sadistic, conniving, sorry, sad excuse of a "Christian Organization". R.W. Davis, Olson, and Kekel don't know the first thing about common decency or how to love their neighbors the same way they love their sorry selves and Bro Brill is stone cold proof!!!!  


If you want to read more of what Bro Bellamy wrote, you can find it all on the previous thread.  It's fairly extensive.  Incidentally, Kekel is an idiot.  

209 comments:

1 – 200 of 209   Newer›   Newest»
Anonymous said...

well, how fitting that next wk. is conf. time and now everybody is gonna have something to talk about!

Chief said...

Kekel is so full of dog dodo that it is (Don and Ange) totally unbelievable. He just totally without question contradicted himself. Kekel is a liar.

Check this out.

Kekel writes and I quote...

NTCC neither teaches nor holds:
*That leaving NTCC is to leave God

Then double tongued Kekel wrote...

It is not an NTCC teaching, but a simple and biblical fact, that if you were right, you wouldn't have to depart from among us, even though opinions differ.

So Chief says....

Kekel is a double tongued flat out liar and a chippy cheat swindler and huckster because the NTCC has absolutely taught that to leave the NTCC is equivalent to leaving God and old double tongued Kekel just proved it when he contradicted his very own words.

Holy Moly! How could someone be so stupid as to write one thing and then in at the start of just two paragraphs later, totally contradict himself?

Kekel is a bone head you are more of a bone head than he is if you read this thread and still allow him to be your leader.

Unbelievable!

DS or GS said...

Bro. Bellamy,

Senior Pastor Kekel has written in at least 2 places that I know of (on his Blog, and in the email to you) that he is called by God to be an administrator.

So the question that begs to be asked is why has he ever been the Pastor in Graham, or taught in the Bible College?

Why hasn't his "God appointed me" place been beside Rev. Olson and Rev. DiFrancesco only?

Gregory the Foolish and Unlearned

Don and Ange said...

Rev. Bellamy said,

"For those of you who were wondering about Rev. and Sister Brill, (yes, this is Rev. Olson's daughter and son-in-law.) They left NTCC a month before I did; approximately March 2011."

DNA say,

WOW! So Regina (Olson) Brill left the Borg to be with her husband Danny? Really? Did we read that correctly???

Edward said...

Yes, DNA you read that correct.

Bro. Bellamy

Don and Ange said...

Amazing. Thanks for confirming that. And thanks for sharing this true story. It truly reveals the heartless nature of the borg leadership.

Anonymous said...

wow!
I can't imagine regina leaving the org. but maybe she hasn't left entirely because somebody mentioned that they still attend the church there in amarillo when they are able.
brill still is "in" the friend's list of the ntcc'ers on FB so it is a matter of time before he is kicked out of their list.
We'll see if regina sticks by her man because she was born in the ntcc and it's very dificult for somebody to exit, like somebody said it is not like getting out of the boy's scouts.




Fisher said...

Why didn't Joe Olson pull his daughter Regina aside and tell her, "You need to find a real man of Gawd." and convince her to dump her husband the way ntcc does to everyone else?

Fisher said...

Cracking the whip over the back of a dude with cancer?

That REALLY speaks of Christianity to me.

"WINNING."

Anonymous said...

Olson is a spineless punk.

DS or GS said...

Because the Brill's left the cult (they are still listed as being assigned to the Amarillo TX church), anything bad that happens to them will be attributed to them leaving, while all good that comes their way will be ignored.

As Pastor Davis likes to say..."No one has ever left this organization under the direction of the Holy Ghost" and we all know this is true because all he does is by the Holy Ghost, and he never misses God. Plus, he never sins.

Gregory the Foolish and Unlearned

Anonymous said...

Davis full of himself and he is a liar. Your sarcasm is understood Greg. We understand that Davis made those statements and we know that he is a liar.

Anonymous said...

Did it ever occur to anyone here that the Brill's left because it FINALLY dawned on them that enough is enough, when Dr.tells your husband that he should be staying home, and then he is harassed for not going doesn't that just speak to the mentality of these people that claim to be "Christians" that are suppose to love your brother as Christ loved the church. All they care about is what it "looks" like within the organization. This is another testimony to the sick organization that we called a church home for years. I am sickened to the core every time I hear yet another story about this group. They probably know they should have left years ago, Davis and his Ilk have more dirty deeds to cover up....

Vic Johanson said...

Interesting new comment on the Mountain News:

http://themountainnewswa.net/2011/09/19/the-new-testament-christian-church-of-graham-an-overview-2/

"B. Hawkins says:
September 25, 2012 at 6:34 am
I was raised in NTCC. “I cut my teeth” on the second pew on the right side(women’s side), I played the tamborine every service, I lived on church property until I was 12, and after all these years, I still question this,”religion”. I never knew anything but church. 5 days a week. I watched people being berated over the pulpit under the pretense that they were going to die and go to hell. I watched my family struggle because it was unacceptable for women to work, and we could barely make ends meet. I watched close family members divorce because he was blamed for stealing money from the church for years, but it was really pilfered away by the local pastor and a certain visiting pastor(Denis). I am a witness of the practice of marrying young girls off to older men. My sister and I were both being positioned to men in church. At 15, I was being asked to stay after church for “fellowship” to let the single men know that I was now grown and available. My parents were told to marry my sister and I off to young men at the church, or send us to Bible School, and we would get married there. I bear witness of people being ostracized for “not being right with the Lord”. I know of many instances that pastors were told to “run people away from the church” if questions were ever asked concerning the doctrine and monetary practices of the church. It was not until I went away to college(which was highly discouraged), that I began to distance myself from the church. I learned that there were actually other religions in the world, and that some of them must be going to heaven too! I have no ill will towards the church, although I can no longer accept their doctrine to be true, and I am generally ignored by them when we meet in public."

Don and Ange said...

Top of the Morning to you Chief and to everyone that read's your hate blog. I came here to hate on some people today.

First of all, I would like to hate on the NFL owners for turning the NFL into a circus. The NFL owners remind me of the ntcc leadership. They are filthy and disgustingly rich and they don't care how much they degrade the sport of professional football. As long as people keep going to the games and watching them on TV, the money will continue to roll in. Doesn't matter what the fans want or what the viewers want. And the sad thing is that most people will not sacrifice their football Sundays to change the way things are. I guarantee you if people boycotted the NFL for one Sunday and left the stadiums empty the filthy rich owners would strike a deal with the Refs and bring back a little integrity to the game. Take some money out of their pockets and they will cave.

That's what they ought to do in the ntcc. Stage a walk out, but don't come back. Could you imagine a Sunday morning where ntcc churches across the land were completely empty? I bet the ntcc pastors would all hold church service anyway and preach to their wives and kids. Take away their money and they would no doubt come up with a kinder and gentler gospel.

Kekel wrote some amazing things in his letter to Bro. Bellamy. It seems like Kekel thinks he is the only one with a license to hate and spew out his hatred towards every one that does not revere him. He sure did spend a lot of time trying to justify himself. I have 3 jobs. I gave months of my salary to World Missions. I did this and I did that. I, I, I. God called me to be this and I did everything God wanted me to do, so therefore you do not have the right to question me or to find fault with me.

Kekel is the gift that keeps giving. We could do about 20 blogposts on Kekels letter and still barely scrape the surface. What we do on this blog is minuscule compared to the damage he does just by opening his pie whole or picking up a pen and writing a hate letter to someone who was minding his own business. But then again it seems like Kekel thinks he is the only one with a license to hate. He's just bitter and he needs to move past this and get on with his life. Oh, I forgot, being hateful is his life.

DnA

Don and Ange said...

Oh, I was reading the book of hate this morning, I mean the bible, because the words of Christ seem to refer to people like Kekel as hypocrites and snakes. You know those fork-tongued copperheads that tell people how to live and accuse folks that no longer worship the ground they stand on of being God haters. There was a man in the bible that sounded just like old forked tongued Kekel. He said, "I pray every day, I pay my tithe, (Paraphrasing here a little), I give in offerings and attend all church functions, I wear wing tips and paisley ties, I give to world missions, I do this and I do that. I,I,I... But the sinner that would not even consider himself worthy to look up to heaven went home justified.

The ntcc walks around in their long robes and religious garb with their noses stuck up in the air, saying, "look at us. Check out how spiritual we are". They have isolated themselves from normality and common decency. They have become a law unto themselves and mask their hatred with a phony and hypocritical form of religion, trying to work their way to heaven. They need to be snatched by their tails and cast out of the garden before they corrupt anyone else.

DnA

Don and Ange said...

Greg and Deb,

I have tried to leave comments on your blog, but when I submit them they just disappear from the text box. Yesterday I tried to preview a comment and it disappeared and this morning I tried to publish one and it disappeared. This might be why there are no new comments on your blog.

Anonymous said...

It maybe that the org never liked brill and they were trying to find ocassion against him.
I've heard of instances where they will make try to make it hard on somebody to "test" them and see if they would just leave the org. which is maybe what they wanted to do with brill.
Why would the brills were never allowed to stay put in graham for she is the daughter of the man that is gonna "take over" the org when rw dies. Why not give brill a job there? that is why I'm thinking that rw never liked brill for some reason and they tried everything possible to ran him out of the org. which is what happened!

Anonymous said...

RWD is an absolute moron. Kekel is low-down. Olson is a woman in man clothing. You know real soft who won't make a stand for anything. A real pussy. He likes having his head up RWDs rear-end.

Anonymous said...

bottom line upfront: any one who leaves the ntcc has left God. ntcc=God. God can only be in one place at a time. ntcc is the only right church. once you enter the church God does not want you to go anywhere else. the only way to heaven is to be a lazy milk tooth christian. salvation is a script that yo follow 5 days a week. this is pleasing to God. Do not work out your own salvation; sit back and let someone else do the work.

DS or GS said...

DnA...I am not sure why your posts disappear. They are not in the spam folder either. I tested posting out, and it works fine.

Gregory

Chief said...

Kekel the con artist wrote...

It is not an NTCC teaching, but a simple and biblical fact, that if you were right, you wouldn't have to depart from among us, even though opinions differ.

Chilli Cheese Dog wrote...

So if I found that I was following the devil, I'm not allowed to depart from him or if I do, I'm not right? I left the Catholic church when I became an adult. I wasn't right? So I can't depart from any church regardless of how they act or treat people or if I do, I'm not right? Mike Kekel is a dummy and as usual his is taking that scripture totally out of context for one very legitimate reason.

If the Church is a "Godly" group of people (within reason of course because the fact is no one is perfect) I'm fine with his statement and then and only then does that church fall into the category of departing from "us". "Us" meaning Christianss who are Godly people. The NTCC clearly doesn't fall in that category because the NTCC leadership is "ungodly" which is the opposite of "Godly". There is no reason to remain with the ungodly. I'm not staying with any church which is ungodly and certainly not with the NTCC which is a church full of false doctrine, nepotism, inconsiderate leaders, and abusive conniving leaders. There goes Mike Kekel the liar equating leaving his church to leaving God. Well that is not so. It's more close to leaving the devil because the NTCC leadership has devilish ways.

Chief

Don and Ange said...

Thanks, Greg. We will try again later.

Anonymous said...

This is taken from the site
http://www.ntccpasadenatx.org/robert.briggs.health.update/ written to robertbriggs and posted by
dannygbrill
August 29, 2012 at 4:57 pm
To my Comrade in Arms,
You have fought the good fight, I hope now you can find rest and peace as you allow God and the Doctors to do their part. I trust the Lord will take care of your family… and I know that is a difficult issue to have faith for and to come to a sense of peace about. Your time on this earth, however long it may be has done and will do more good than you will ever know, my friend.

Sorry I was not able to reach out to you sooner, it turns out when you most recent response prior to now (7/28 – 8/29) I was in ICU fighting for my life, or at best laying in the bed as God decided what to do with me and the Doctors fought for my life. I was semi-conscious – but I did not know where I was or how I got there for the first few days.

I may come down to Houston for open heart double valve replacement surgery – still waiting to hear back from the VA on that one. But if we get the chance we can catch up – if not I will look forward to seeing you on the other side.

Bro. Brill

Anonymous said...

Regarding Bro. Brill:

This story is so disgusting, and tragic! I am so upset at the gross negligence of the church Leaders! This is such an abominable act done to this brother and his family. Destroying this man's life, and placing him in harms way. If he passes on to glory, it will be because the leadership pushed him over his limit and helped him to leave this earth sooner than expected; they purposely endangered his life in order to appease the god of self!

Hey, what happened to the new rule, Conferences were not mandatory?? Hmmm?? I believe it's one of those NTCC flip-flops. Just saying, seems to me it's still mandatory to attend Conference even if you're sick and dying. The leaders can deny all they want that there are no requirements, they never existed. We all know too well, there are many who can vouch that this is typical cult behavior.

Thank God I stopped drinking the Kool-aid!

Deborah

Anonymous said...

Little mikey said "Are you aware of what my Mom and I went through, making it through the 60's?"

Yeah we're aware of it alright! Are you aware that we remember how you got up and made fun of your mother's cracked toilet seat? You pathetic bastard! Why didn't you carry your sorry self down to Wal-Mart and buy her a new seat? I guess that was to much of a sacrifice. Huh? It was easier to just rail on her to the congregation in Graham than to help her, right?


Anonymous said...

Edward said to Kekel "Don’t lie on me and say that I am being motivated by the devil. I AM BEING MOTIVATED BY YOU!!!

One in the same Edward!

Chief said...

Anonymous said...

One in the same Edward!

Chief said...

Very well put and you are so right. Kekel may not be the "devil" but he sure can act like him.

DS or GS said...

The biggest Cult laugh I get online is when Senior Pastor Kekel lectures someone, or otherwise talks about, sacrifice and hardship in his life.

The close second is when he tries to convince everyone that the Cult isn't what it is.

Gregory the foolish and unlearned

Chief said...

Deborah wrote...

This story is so disgusting, and tragic! I am so upset at the gross negligence of the church Leaders!

Chief said...

I could "feel" your disgust in that statement Deborah. You know why and how? Because I feel the same way. Kind of like how Jesus felt when he started flipping the tables of the money changers. Angry. And you know what? There is nothing wrong with being angry. Of course you know this Deborah but the Bible teaches that you can be angry and sin not. So guess what. I am absolutely angry with the NTCC leadership because they are totally inconsiderate people who absolutely lack common decency.

I have nothing other than utter disdain for them. I know how you feel Deb.

Chief

Vic Johanson said...

"Little mikey said "Are you aware of what my Mom and I went through, making it through the 60's?"

Yeah we're aware of it alright! Are you aware that we remember how you got up and made fun of your mother's cracked toilet seat? You pathetic bastard! Why didn't you carry your sorry self down to Wal-Mart and buy her a new seat? I guess that was to much of a sacrifice. Huh? It was easier to just rail on her to the congregation in Graham than to help her, right?"



All economic suffering doesn't equal sacrifice. Sacrifice denotes relinquishing something intentionally for a higher purpose. Is Mike seriously trying to imply that his mom and he went through these privations voluntarily? Not likely; their situation was almost certainly caused by his father abandoning his mother while she was pregnant with him (another factoid he shared over the pulpit; those paternal genetics may partially explain his sociopathology). Besides, he was just a kid then; if there was genuine sacrifice, it would have been his mother making those decisions, not him. As you note, he has regularly disparaged his family publicly, like many of us have, since it's standard NTCC policy (or is it doctrine? Hard to keep them straight...). So it's disingenuous for him to equate his youthful poverty with the situations of pioneer pastors who do surrender much for the sake of their ministries.

I lived in the same room with Mike in St. Louis. He had a better job than most; he was some kind of apprentice at a machine shop and even got GI Bill benefits through that. Still, he didn't have it together enough to get himself a car until after he graduated, but I suppose that was because he gave his last dollar to the "Work of God." He wasn't some notable martyr then; we were all broke. It used to make me sick to hear him giving both barrels to "washed up" preachers who landed back in Graham, as if he had ever even gone out and tried to do half of what they did. And if he was called to be an "administrator," what in the world is he doing jacking folks up anyhow? No, from the minute he started groping his child bride, the skids were greased for him, and he should just get some humility and admit to himself what everyone else already knows--that he's the heir to the throne and is exempt from all the standards applied to others. "Ain't misbehavin'" my ass; no one else could have pulled off his antics without getting run off.

Chief said...

Vic said...

"Ain't misbehavin'" my ass; no one else could have pulled off his antics without getting run off.

Chief said...

Amen to that one because it's a fact. No on else could have thrown RWD under the bus and gotten away with it because make no mistake about it; that is exactly what Mike did.

Double Ugh said...

Isn't it funny how Kekel got on Bellamy for getting on the "hate blog" but does anyone remember when Kekel "hated" and gossipped about the Shunk's on his blog and shared with everyone their info? We felt so disgusted reading that knowing that it was "rev" "pastor" "ceo" "administrator" kekel who was writing it.

Even one of his church members had commented on his blog and stated how bad he felt reading it.

yes, conference is coming up...and Kekel needs something to preach about for his "last" service that Rdub always has him preach...

He loves to get people to stand up and scream while he's up there...

I'd love to hear from someone that goes to the conference about the fact that Kekel mentions some of this stuff that he wrote to Bellamy. Kekel had to stick up for himself...again! He's a punk!

He said he sent a month or two worth of income to help missions? That's really not much if he is getting paid $150 a week! But, I guess with his three jobs, maybe he gets $450 a week.
Even then, Kekel,
one or two months? What about the years people put in their $150 a week back into the work? YEARS!!! I suffered too as a kid, but that is definitely not why I left NTCC!!!
Come on!

All you NTCCers reading this can just keep on letting Kekel walk all over you and talk down to you, but there IS life on the other side, and you can still serve God.

Double Ugh said...

So, what does this mean about the Brill's leaving?

I'm a little confused.

Did he just step down as a pastor, but is a church member now? Did he stop going because he is sick, but is his wife still going?

Did they both stand up to her dad and say they are not being a part of this organization at all?

I pray Bro Brill lives a long, wonderful life with his beautiful wife and precious daughter, but if he does pass away (like any of us can at anytime), will Regina go back to NTCC?

Chili Cheese Dog Cha Chiefster said...

Gregory wrote...

The biggest Cult laugh I get online

Chief said...

The biggest disgust I get is from the same. How interesting. What makes you laugh disgusts me and I understand both. The guys is such a joke of course, that you laugh about his statements and at the same time he is so far detached from reality and utterly ridiculous and insulting that I get disgusted by his statements. There is one common theme I see around these blogs. Virtually no one has or shows respect for Kekel. It doesn't seem that too many folks with much sense have much respect for Olson either. They get none from me. Chippy cheat swindlers and hucksters is what they are.

Chief said...

Double Ugh asked a variety of questions....

Chief said....

I have none of the answers. It's possible that Edward may but I know nothing of Bro Brill.

Double Ugh's Husband said...

I believe kekel just woke up the sleeping Giant...

Drop the MOAB Brother Bellamy.

Kekel ticks me off!

Anonymous said...

Kekel ticks all of us off because he tries to treat everyone like they are stupid.

Double Ugh said...

So much for you taking a break from the blog Jeff...guess things are heating up again!

Chief said...

Yeah, I guess so. It's info that people need to know about. Of course I started the thread but I was quite motivated by Kekel's foolish letter and so was Edward. I know we were all brainwashed to one degree or another but at this point, I don't know how anyone can trust a crook like Kekel.

Double Ugh said...

Don't get me wrong Jeff, I meant nothing against you...we may have intentions, but when something happens that we need to act on, that is what we need to do. This definitely needed it's own thread. I am 100% in agreement with you doing it.

I definitely look forward to hearing more from Bellamy. Of course we don't rejoice in the harm of others, but since we were all in NTCC at some time or another, we all know how secretive and hypocritical the "system" was and is, so it is refreshing and healing to hear that others see the same things that we did. Another reminder that it wasn't just all in our minds, but something with the org was and is wrong.

Anonymous said...

Chief said..."Kekel is so full of dog dodo...


Kekel is dog dodo!

Anonymous said...

"During conference they called him and chewed him out. So he got on a plane and came to conference.. And just like the doctor predicted he became very sick. He then realized, (like all of us) that they DO NOT care about anyone but themselves, their pride, and their ego. They put his life in danger for show."

Nothing has changed in the ntcc and nothing ever will. The leaders are the same as always, uncaring about people and their real problems and more worried about outward appearances than anything else.

Anonymous said...

I can't believe how much of a "richard cranium" Kekel is. He dares to call some "silly preachers"! It seems like the only one that is silly, asinine, idiotic, imbecilic, and just flat out stupid, is him!

Can you people believe that this duffis is the head of an organization? He acts like Bamm-Bamm from the flintstones. And we all know who pebbles is!

Vic Johanson said...

"MALLICK, BETTY LOU
A lifelong resident of Flint, beloved mother, grandmother, and aunt; died on Wednesday, June 6, 2012 after a long battle with COPD. She was preceded in death by her parents, siblings and husband; she is survived by her son Michael and Tanya Kekel, her grandson Grant Davison Kekel, her "angels" Christine and Lance Bobb and many loving nieces and nephews. Family will greet guests on Sunday June 10th from 6:00-8:00 PM and the Funeral Service is Monday June 11, at 10:00 AM at Swartz Funeral Home, 1225 Hill Road, her son, Reverend Michael Kekel officiating."

Wondering if the toilet seat anecdote made the eulogy...

DS or GS said...

Pity. I wonder if she ever got a toilet seat?

I also wonder if Senior Pastor Kekel was in church at Graham on Sunday June 10th?...And soul-winning on Saturday June 9th?

The obit I read said Pastor Don McCombs was officiating.

Gregory

Anonymous said...

Vick, what are you a private detective, you find out so much for this site, it is really quite admirable. So his Mother passed away, I bet he did not go to her funeral. It really was obvious to me when he spoke of her over the pulpit that he was ashamed of his Mom, so sad, this woman brought him into this world. Anyway, doesn't surprise me, the way he spoke of her over the pulpit, I always thought it cold and aloof.

Chief said...

Double Ugh said...

Don't get me wrong Jeff, I meant nothing against you

Chief said...

I didn't take it like that at all. No problems here. I enjoy your posts.

Chief said...

Greg said....

The obit I read said Pastor Don McCombs was officiating.

Chief said...

Imagine that. Much could be concluded by that fact. I know one thing; I wouldn't let the NTCC pay my family for them to allow Kekel to say one word at my funeral. I'd rather have a flee ridden dog bark out my eulogy. Ruff, ruff, ruff. He rus a rood, man. Preach fido! ROFLOL!!!!

Anonymous said...


Somebody said that ms olson was showing some pics of her grandaughter with a little cat she had just gotten last year.
this sis commented that she should've known something was going on with the brills since cats were a no-no because of you know who!
imagine that!

DS or GS said...

Anonymous shared..."...something was going on with the brills since cats were a no-no."

The beat goes on. When someone leaves, the Cult ALWAYS (which means there is never an exception) latches on to the most innocuous thing (if there is nothing else) to show something was wrong with the person...

Or they knew something was wrong (everyone becomes a seer when someone escapes) way back when because they saw them eating french fries with their fingers one time, or they put cream and sugar in there coffee, or they were 'caught' blowing their nose in public, or went out to their mailbox without a belt on, etc.

I wonder if anyone Sis. Olson shows pictures to has forsaken having children for the ministry. Like RC Blumenthal and Deb did back in the day. And, as Deb and I have.

This is one of many reasons why these Blogs are important. Keep the old and new information coming. Just having it online keeps the pressure on.

The Blogs influence people to leave, while causing the ones that will never leave to act, write, and speak even more crazy than they already do...Thus causing even more people to escape. And on, and on, and on.

I wonder what new craziness is going to be said at conference next week, that will cause the next wave of escapes? Hopefully someone can give us all a report.

Gregory

Vic Johanson said...

Yeah, Greg, "The Whirlwind" (before he was outed by Brian Pelfrey as my old roommate Mike Kekel) made a big deal on FACTnet about how I licked some honey off of the jar. A sure indication of future reprobation.

DS or GS said...

I remember Vic.

This incident even made it into my Bible College notes. And I only had a year of school left by the time you left. But I was still there soon enough, and long enough, to have had you for a professor. They move quickly.

I think I am going to go into my kitchen, dip my finger in our raw honey jar, and eat it...In your honor.

Winnie the Pooh was a sinner too. So I continue to be in good company, and am following the right examples.

Gregory

Vic Johanson said...

You mean The Honey Jar Incident was even related in class? I had no idea...who broached it?

Chief said...

That just show you how petty guys like Olson really are. They worry about the most nit-picky stuff but have no problem sending their own kids down the river without a paddle. Olson is a perfect example. If jerks like him spent less time worrying about eating french fries with their fingers and more time worrying about his sick son in law, this world would be a better place. Instead, the NTCC makes the world a worse place. Way worse.

The whole thing is so sickening it's almost unbearable.

Chief said...

Hey Greg, there really is something going on with your blog where posts are not making it. I just tried a couple posts and none made it through. I know you've checked everything but something is not right somehow. I'm not complaining but just wanted to give you heads up because others will try to post and then just give up. I suspect there would be more posts showing if this abnormality didn't exist. It does work sometimes but other times it doesn't. Just saying Bro.

Danny Brill said...

In response to recent questions and accusations relating to my wife and my in-laws, I must say most of the information is skewed to present a false impression, or since only portions of the story are know - 1/2 truths are presented as facts.

First let me say Bro. & Sis. Bellamy are wonderful children of God, and I do love them dearly. I too would be upset to get such an inflammatory email seemingly out of know where; and I would also want to respond accordingly.

My problem with this whole situation is why did Sis. Brill and I have to get thrown into the mix. I remember during the Spring of 2011 you and I were going through some of the same battles regarding our then current and future relationships with the Org. - however I was also under the impression that due to the nature of our close friendship - those conversations were going to stay confidential. Is that how you remember it?

Chief said...

Yeah Greg, just tried again and I've tried posting anonymous and with my name and none of them made it. Somethings up for sure where it's not working right every time.

Chief said...

Danny Brill said...

In response to recent questions and accusations relating to my wife and my in-laws, I must say most of the information is skewed to present a false impression, or since only portions of the story are know - 1/2 truths are presented as facts.

Chief asked...

Fair enough and I do like the straight story.

Q1. Did you leave the org?

Q2. Were you sick and at the same time still persuaded by the NTCC leadership to attend conference contrary to your doctor's advise.

Q3. Was it or was it not stated by someone in the NTCC leadership that it would be a bad testimony if either you "or" your wife didn't attend conference.

Q4. Did you get called and quote "admonished" for either not planning to attend conference or letting your wife go by her self.

I desire the straight facts so clarification would be appreciated.

Sincerely,
Chief

Danny Brill said...

Regarding my health: Yes I literally almost lost my head in the Mohave Desert back in 1990. During the six months that followed It was discovered I had cancer of the immune system in the same area where my initial injury was located and it was spreading. The was they treated cancer even 20 years ago has changed a lot from the way they treat it today. I got the old shake N bake method way too much radiation over way to large of an area. I was medically discharged and turned over to the VA to follow-up care for the rest of my life. I tried to ignore it as much as possible - but things kept popping up. My wife and I got to do a lot of amazing things for the Lord through the org - and I do not regret it. Unfortunately, by the time we were trying to pioneer our little miracle church in England - some of my long term cancer related side effects began to seriously interfere with my ability to continue as the pastor there. Thankfully the Lord has given me such a fine group of young men who had a desire to go into the ministry themselves; we were able to carry the load together.

I was able to last there until Spring of 2007. Then the Org. did give me a job in Graham, they were not going to just cast me aside as some have suggested. - but I was not satisfied working in an office - and God opened the door for me to come to Amarillo.

Chief said...

Another question"

Q5: Did you attend conference after your wife went initially (before you) and were you ill or sick while attending conference?

Q6: Did you get on a plane and travel to conference separate from your wife and specifically after your wife had either already departed or already arrived?

Q7: Did you originally tell R.W. Davis that you were sick and as a result you did not plan attend conference?

I know you don't have to answer any of these questions but you did come on here and clearly claim that Bro Bellamy's story contained only half truths so I'm just curious which parts were accurate? I ask because in my mind, only certain parts even matter and of course (as I'm sure you understand) those parts were addressed with my questions.

Chief said...

Danny Brill said...

Regarding my health: Yes I literally almost lost my head in the Mohave Desert back in 1990.

Chief said...

Ok, so the part about you being very ill was accurate and I'm sorry to hear about that. I'm curious about the other parts which were addressed by my questions.

Danny Brill said...

Chief, I will get to your questions near the end of my testimony, if they are not already woven into the narrative as my personal recollection of the events unfolds.

Even though my heart defects and weakened immune system had already reared their head more than once along with extreme nerve pain that would wrap itself around from the back of my head up along the side of my face... I was determined by faith to move forward because that was just the type of life I enjoyed living. When We got to Amarillo, Rev. Wright was there to help us unload out 26ft(?) truck full of heavy furniture and boxes as many as the grains of sand upon the sea shore (JK). I think that incident help push my heart ever so subtlety towards the more dangerous area where I live today. About 8 months later my wife and I bought our first house. I had a decent job and the church was small but pretty much took care of itself - but it wasn't long after we were all lock in so to speak that my health began to decline further and further.

In 2009 I quit my job hoping to find something less demanding - and the VA offered to pay me to go to college and get any degree I wanted as long as it would make me more "employable". They also increased my disability compensation... so with the two combined, I was making just as much as I had been when I was still working. No problems there for me.

Chief said...

Danny Brill said...

I was able to last there until Spring of 2007. Then the Org. did give me a job in Graham, they were not going to just cast me aside as some have suggested. - but I was not satisfied working in an office - and God opened the door for me to come to Amarillo.

Chief said...

None of Bro Bellamy's statement (if I'm correct) really focuses on you being in Graham or the job that you were given. The focus of his statement was you being persuaded to attend conference contrary to your doctors advise. That is the issue here.

Chief said...

Danny Brill said...

Chief, I will get to your questions near the end of my testimony

Chief said...

Fair enough.

Danny Brill said...

I loved going back to college! Campus is only a 20 minute drive and everybody is so nice and friendly. I made it about a year and a half and my body just started sending out the warning signals that if I did not pull back it was going to give our on my. For ex. my potassium levels dropped critically low - it makes you feel like you are having a stroke - like the whole left side of your body can just go numb, and you feel dizzy, and no pain for the first time in like 20 years - my body felt no pain... I was ready to die, if this is what death felt like bring in on... unfortunately, went to the ER and they told me my potassium was low and I needed to drink a whole bunch of it right then and then take pills for it at home. Then the fatigue got worse, and so did the infections. I was so run down and sick by Feb 2011 my DR told me to drop out of school and get a month of bed rest.

Anonymous said...

I'm detecting a spin here. Danny, we are interested in the conference part and Chief's questions are valid. I've read your testimony and I can already tell where you are headed it seams. I suspect that you will say that you went to conference on your own and it was totally your own decision but did you originally notify Pastor Davis that you did not intend to go to conference and were you still told you should attend even after you made that notification.

Chief said...

Danny Brill said...

I was so run down and sick by Feb 2011 my DR told me to drop out of school and get a month of bed rest.

Chief said...

So that kind of answers a part of Q2. Your doctor did suggest that you get a month rest. And the Feb 2011 part at this point kind of corresponds with the March 2011 date that Bro Bellamy wrote about.

Danny Brill said...

SO I did. But I still didn't feel any better. By the end of March beginning of April 2011, I knew It was no longer fair to the local congregation for me to continue as their pastor. My wife and I talked about it, and she fully understood. I knew Conference was coming up and I was still suffering from some type of infection. So I decided not to go to that conference and Since we had already purchased tickets for my wife and daughter, there was no reason for them not to go.

I emailed my resignation to Rev. Kekel, citing my physical limitations preventing me from being a minister within the NTCC until such a time as my health improved and it seemed good to the Lord for me to seek reinstatement as a minister within the ORG

Don and Ange said...

Greg,

Yesterday we were able to post a couple comments on your blog through one of our mobile phones. However, today, we were unable to post comments on your blog on our home PC or our other phone. On my home PC, after you type the comment into the text box it disappears when you select preview or publish, and you can't get it back. I tried it on one of our mobile phones today and you could not work with the text inside the text box and I ended up losing my comment before I could send it. Perhaps the template you are using only works with certain browsers? Hope you get it working soon.

Don

Danny Brill said...

Chief's Q&A:

1.Yes (generally) & No (locally)

2.Rev. Olson lovingly persuaded me to spend the weekend after Spring 2011 conference in Graham [I guess hoping for a better resolution (he even paid for my ticket) but things did not improve] - upon my return to Amarillo - I needed more antibiotics to help me recover from my respiratory infection.

3. It was not stated directly - but it was inferred.

4. No.

Danny Brill said...

Chief's Q&A continued:

5. I think the first service I attended was the Friday Evening or Saturday Evening service. I am certain I was in pain and I cannot remember to what extent I was suffering from an infection at that particular time.

6. I dropped my wife and daughter at the airport Sunday afternoon, and I did not leave until Thursday or Friday.

7. Pastor Davis knew that I had been sick for some time. To Include, from what I remember, I clearly stated it in the resignation email I sent to Rev. Kekel the Sunday prior to the Conference which was set to start on the very next day.

P.S. - I no way, shape, or form are my intentions here to shed a bad light on Bro. Bellamy. I still consider him to be a great friend and an honorable man of God. I just personally wish my wife and I could have been left out of this whole fiasco.

DS or GS said...

Hello All,

I don't know what is wrong. We were hacked recently, so I had to rebuild the Blog. The template is new not classic, but new is the only option now (all will have to update soon). We always use firefox, and have never had trouble posting my comments anonymously.

I found this:

The embedded comment form currently does not support subscribing to follow-up comments via email, nor does it have a preview button.

Greg

DS or GS said...

I removed customizations I made to the new template. Someone try and post something.

Gregory

DS or GS said...

Vic,

Rev. Olson and Senior Pastor Davis.

Plus, Deb and I used to get invited out to eat with Pastor Davis quite often when I was in Bible College...and the "honey jar" incident--along with the "dipping a grilled cheese sandwich in ketchup" incident--were frequent fare around the restaurant fellowship table…and even in the leaders homes, to which we were also invited to quite often.

Though I liked to go out with the "Man of God," 90% the fellowship revolved around Senior Pastor Davis picking on the people there, telling obscene and racist jokes, gossiping about people, talking about his latest fad diet (and lecturing us on what we ate, if it was different from him), who was a success, dispensing medical advice, etc. It was the same scene in their homes. Unless Deb and I were alone with them, they never really messed with me too much.

If you want me to look it up in my notes (I still have them), I won't do it, and will retract my statement.

But, I do have my memory, and many others have heard these stories during service, at the Lodge, classes, fellowship, and conferences.

I don’t think I even knew you had left the cult while I was in Bible College, until you posted years later on FactNet what year you left.

Perriello taught me Minor Prophets I (I think I knew he left…another of my favorite teachers), and you taught me Romans from 2/23/94 to 6/29/94. Your class was the only one I used to teach my congregations from; it is heavily annotated and well used.

The first paragraph of the first class contains references from Shakespeare, David Bowie, and Jefferson airplane.

As young as the student body was, I don't think many of them appreciated/knew the Rock-n-Roll references. I was about 33 when I took your class. This is only about 3 years younger than Deb (depending on what month it is)…so much for the accusation against her that she married a child.

The Cult is so secretive (other than their eventual spin), you can be right in the middle of something, and not know anything about it, until it is spun to you later. All you can do is notice who isn't around anymore, and listen to what IS said. Well, since 2004 it is easier to get the non-spin side of any story, back then—no way.

So pay attention Cultists, so when you leave you can Blog about it, to help someone else, and add your witness to ours.

You escape in '95? I graduated Bible College in '96. I don't think any of the men I graduated with are still involved in the Cult.

The last time I was in an NTCC Church was August 2007 (the one we were Pastoring). There was an NTCC church about 5 miles away from us in Hopkinsville KY, when I was stationed at Ft. Campbell from 2009 – 2012 (but I was deployed 2 of the 3 years). I never went, just drove by it a lot. They would come to our apartment many Saturdays for months. I never answered the door.

I prefer to engage the cult online, it is less messy, and provides a record for all those coming after us; that are still trapped.

But even electronic communications can get prickly. Deb was trying to reach out to her sister Becky earlier this month, things were going okay for a few back and forth emails, but then Deb called Becky on some lies/misinformation she wrote during these emails, and Becky exploded...Sad, but typical of the Cultist.

It’s good reading though, so I'll be posting the emails on Deb's Blog when the planets align (Vic speak). We usually only like to post new topics when things are slow on the other Blogs, and the way things have picked up over here, that will be a while.

Gregory

Edward said...

Bro. Brill said...

My problem with this whole situation is why did Sis. Brill and I have to get thrown into the mix. I remember during the Spring of 2011 you and I were going through some of the same battles regarding our then current and future relationships with the Org. - however I was also under the impression that due to the nature of our close friendship - those conversations were going to stay confidential. Is that how you remember it?

Bro. Bellamy said...

I would like to give my deepest apology to Bro. and Sister Brill. I wasn't sure if you asked me to hold off in posting our conversation or not to post them at all. When I received that email from Rev. Kekel it made me so angry that I just didn't think. I am not only sorry for bringing your family into this, I am sorry that I let anger hurt our friendship. I don't know how I can make it up to you, but I do ask for your forgiveness. It was not my intent to misrepresent what you told me. What I posted was what I remember of our conversations, but it seems from your response of the exact facts that I got most of the details correct. I only say that because I want you to know that I wasn't trying to skewe the facts. I will try to call you a little later; if you still have the phone number you gave me.

Sorry to hurt such dear friends,

Bro. Bellamy

Vic Johanson said...

Greg, your memory is impeccable; I do remember using the "feed your head" quote from White Rabbit. And thanks for the complement. I worked hard on those classes and didn't just regurgitate whatever worthless notes I had. I did leave in '95. We recently passed the mark where we've been out longer than we were in, and finally I'm starting to feel a sense of normalcy. The untwisting process takes some time.

I was oblivious to the fact that my honey consumption methodology was fodder for the stuffed shirts. Wow. They never messed with me much either (to my face), but I'm quite familiar with the fellowship fare at the "leadership" table. RW was continually dogging someone out behind his back, and I heard plenty of questionable jokes too. Edna was concerned when I started drifting from the obligatory after party in the fellowship hall, and I had to enlighten her that what was going on up there wasn't exactly the pinnacle of edification.

Don and Ange said...

Maybe I missed something; but I don't recall E. Bwllamy stating anything of a partticularly personal nature here. He simply stated facts that were fairly obvious such as Regina went to conference before Danny arrived and that attending conference caused Danny to become gravely ill.

Danny Brill said...

Bro. Bellamy,

No worries, Mate! I completely understand and all is forgiven - and in reality there is nothing that even measures up to the level where any kind of forgiveness would even be warranted. I know these types of issues are very emotional and it is easy to jump on the keyboard and to ride off in all directions... as long as you save a piece of chicken for me someday and we can sing another round of "Greyskull" together all is well between us... brathaaaa!

Don and Ange said...

The secrecy in the ntcc of common events, like where a couple is laboring, is abnormal and unhealthy. My opinion is that the cause of this CULTure is davis' paranoia. Healthy churches promote openness and community. Cults isolate to control members.

Don and Ange said...

Sorry about the typo in your name. :-)

Edward said...

To all that frequent this site. My intentions were to become fully involved in showing what NTCC really was and is all about. I was very angry with Rev. Kekel's email and intended to fully inform everyone of details that I have held in for the past year. Tuesday night I woke up about 3:50 a.m. and could not sleep. I finally decided to go and pray. I played out my future actions and did not like where they were headed and what I would become. When I made the decision to discontinue my plans I had peace.

I am not recanting anything that I posted. And I know that I did not skew the facts or tell half truths, because there are parts that I did not reveal that would show that to be the case. I just forgot to put them in because of my haste and unfortunate anger. I will not put them in this post, because Bro. Brill is my friend and I value that friendship. That is the reason that I will do everything that I can not to post again. I am not saying that I will not, but I will try. I am a person that is very very very slow to anger, but when I do get angry it can consume me. I am not finding fault with anyone that posts, but it is for my personal benefit and spirituality that I reframe from posting.

To everyone in NTCC. Please leave me alone; if all you want to do is degrade me and tell me how much of a devil I am. If you believe me to be wrong then just pray for me. If you believe that I have sinned then ask God to forgive me. He will forgive me. I just want to heal and go on for God.

Bro. Bellamy

DS or GS said...

Vic,

Yeah, the HQ table at the fellowship hall...The woman, kids, and Bible students probably ooh'ed and aah'ed (as I did) about all the nuggets from the throne that must be being dispensed up there, and that they were missing.

But, once you have sat around the inner circle a few times, you realize, not so much. But, you keep going up there hoping it will be different next time.

It was a little better when Pop was still alive and up there, his influence definitely curbed Senior Pastor Davis' enthusiasm. Once Pop was gone though, things became progressively more bizarre/unedifying...Even to the point where Senior Pastor Davis would make little digs against Pop!?

The last time I lived back in Graham 2001 - 2003, I also started too more often than not eschew the center stage table in favor of yucking it up with the students, and the other ministers that weren't up around Senior Pastor Davis throne while he held court.

I have been in less carnal atmospheres in some bars I have been to.

Gregory

DS or GS said...

Bro. Bellamy wrote..."My intentions were to become fully involved in showing what NTCC really was and is all about."

And you did well with what you wrote. But, whether you had posted anything about Bro. Brill or not, it has already been a long time shown what the Cult really is and is all about.

Follow your conscience, you are now free to do what you want with no condemnation from me. It's probably not that hard to not post on the Blogs, as long as you don't read them.

Gregory

Edward said...

I ask again that anyone that wants to call me in question from the NTCC to just leave me alone.

I have much much more information that I just overlooked while a member...

Just to help you make the right decision, remember I was the night watchman for almost a year at the Bible Seminary, and also I worked on Pastor Davis' (at that time) new house. Yes, I was on the building crew for 6 months. I have info about not paying overtime and such like. I keep all of my pay stubs.

Leave me alone and I will leave you alone. I just want to have a good relationship with God. And forget all of the nonsense that NTCC brought into my life; not all was bad, but much of it was.

Bro. Bellamy

Danny Brill said...

Bro. Bellamy,

Thank again for you consideration in leavening my family out of all this mess... we are looking for peace and others are looking for vengeance. In those two items alone you have totally different outcomes. We all have to choose our own path - so please understand I am not finding fault with anyone. I just know what we need right now is the path of peace :)

Danny Brill

DS or GS said...

Chief,

I think what we may have in Bro. Brill and Bro. Bellamy's testimony is the desire to tell their story, but maybe not the whole story.

I assume Bro. Bellamy called Bro. Brill before his last posts. Bro. Bellamy stood by what he already posted, but stated that he is just not posting anymore, in deference to Bro. Brill. I assume he changed his mind after talking to Bro. Brill, and after Bro. Brill wrote what he wrote above. Okay by me. We may hear more later.

Deborah and I did the same thing when we first left. We told people we were just visiting family in Idaho, since NTCC didn't have anything for us at that time.

We told people this while we were also working behind the scenes to get any type of answer from the Org, and come to some sort of mutual understanding.

We didn't start Deb's Blog until 2010, and we weren't telling anyone what was going on beyond that we were visiting Idaho. Except for Deborah's Sister Becky, who insisted that we tell her what was 'really' going on.

We didn't even tell Deb's parents what was 'really' going on (since we ourselves weren't sure). And we were living with them at the time. They were just glad we were there, and so were we.

I may be misunderstanding the perceived undercurrents, but that is my take so far. I will have to go back and read the comments, and think on this some more.

Maybe then I will change my mind.

Gregory

Chief said...

Chiefs responses directly below Danny Brill's answers. And first before I start. Some of these answers must be the best tap dance, (other than Bill Clinton's answers to the Monica Lewinski scandal) than I ever witnessed. Danny, you want to accuse Bro Bellamy of quote "half truths". Bro Bellamy shouldn't be apologizing but agonizing over your painfully obvious spin tactics that the NTCC has so effectively taught you. You should be appoligizing to him.

And as far as "confidentiality" goes that you suggest that Bro Bellamy violited? Since when do pastors in the NTCC kept anything confidential? Davis himself said, (and I was in the congregation) that if you didn't want your information to get preached about, you better not tell it to him!!!!! He said it right in front of me and I was in like the 5th row!!!!! NTCC pastors regularly put out our (my families) business. So your tactic to lay a double standard guilt trip may have worked on Bro Bellamy but it doesn't work on me. Now to your spin answers. Danny, I truly feel bad for your physical situation but you should be ashamed because your answers are insulting to any remotely intelligent individual.

1.Yes (generally) & No (locally)

Chief said: What kind of mess is that answer "generally"? You either had sex with Monica or you didn't. So you left the NTCC but stayed locally? Why was that? So you wouldn't "totally" ruin your father in laws testimony. Danny, I'm no dummy and I'm not double minded.

2.Rev. Olson lovingly persuaded me to spend the weekend after Spring 2011 conference in Graham [I guess hoping for a better resolution (he even paid for my ticket) but things did not improve] - upon my return to Amarillo - I needed more antibiotics to help me recover from my respiratory infection.

Chief said... You call it lovingly persuading you when you were sick as a dog and he knew it after you doctor told you to rest? If he really loved you he should have persuaded you to stay home and take care of yourself, not travel to "CONFERENCE" or "Graham" or where ever he persuaded you to go.

3. It was not stated directly - but it was inferred.

Chief said... There you go again tap dancing. Do you have nice tap dancing shoes on because you are getting good. "Inferred", "Stated" (and I didn't use the word "directly" in my question) or however you want to phrase it. You knew they were saying it would be a bad testimony and as a result they put a stupid conference before your health and you know it.

4. No.

Chief said... Oh really? So then why did you wind up going anyway after you sent your family off first which you've admitted that you did? Because you just out of the blue decided to change your mind when you were in so much pain that you can't even remember enough about what happened to answer Q5?

5. I think the first service I attended was the Friday Evening or Saturday Evening service. I am certain I was in pain and I cannot remember to what extent I was suffering from an infection at that particular time.

Chief said... Fair enough. So you were definitely sick and in pain and you were in fact persuaded to attend after your doctor told you to rest.

6. I dropped my wife and daughter at the airport Sunday afternoon, and I did not leave until Thursday or Friday.

Chief said... So you did go later just like Bro Bellamy said.

7. Pastor Davis knew that I had been sick for some time. To Include, from what I remember, I clearly stated it in the resignation email I sent to Rev. Kekel the Sunday prior to the Conference which was set to start on the very next day.

Chief said... Bingo!!!! That says it all. So nothing that has been written here has been a "half truth" or a distortion other than some of the stuff that you wrote.

Continued below.

Chief said...

Bro Brill. This whole story doesn't make me ONE SINGLE BIT HAPPY to include feeling the need to take this approach with you!!!!! It is however sickening that the NTCC leadership would worry more about some STUPID testimony that they would the health and welfare or one of their own and I make NO APOLOGIES for that statement.

Danny wrote...

P.S. - I no way, shape, or form are my intentions here to shed a bad light on Bro. Bellamy. I still consider him to be a great friend and an honorable man of God. I just personally wish my wife and I could have been left out of this whole fiasco.

Chief said...

And I understand why. Because Bro Bellamy wrote the truth. Also, your father in law is still the big cheese in the NTCC because if it weren't for that, you'd probably have no problem exposing them for exactly what they are. Inconsiderate to the degree that a stupid conference meant more to them than your health and you know what I'm writing is true. And let me tell you something. This blog is not a quote "fiasco". The way they treated you when you were sick is a disgusting "fiasco" that thank God you only have to "generally" deal with in the future.

I wish the best for you Danny and I hope with your illness you can live a long productive life and I mean that. Bro Brill, there is nothing wrong with being real which is exactly what you were when you told Bro Bellamy how you were treated. My family has a great life because I got real and yanked them out of the NTCC completely, not "generally".

Chief

JEFF said...

For the record. If anyone thinks I got pleasure in the way I address Danny's answers, they are wrong. I'm just sick and tired with the way the NTCC treats people and the way they've brainwashed people. And I'm especially tired of NTCC people (past or present) continuing to try and "INSULT" our intelligence. They are the ones who give half answers and half truths using semantics time after time. I'll tell you this. Neither Bro or Sis Brill should have gone anywhere near that conference with that man being that sick. Bro Brill, you know what I'm saying is true!!!!!! Your wife should have stayed home and took care of you which should have been the advise from EVERYONE in the NTCC leadership to include your father in law!!!!! The NTCC is sickening and I'm not about vengeance. I'm about getting the truth out so the next sick person doesn't have to go through getting manipulated into attending conference when they should be in home in bed with their wife taking care of them and their cute little child periodically next to their side helping to cheer them up!!!!! My little boy make me feel better when I am sick which doesn't happen very often thank God!!!!!

JEFF

Chief said...

Greg said...

I think what we may have in Bro. Brill and Bro. Bellamy's testimony is the desire to tell their story, but maybe not the whole story.

Chief said...

Greg I hear you and here is my thoughts. Bro Brill knows that what Bro Bellamy wrote is the truth. Bro Brill doesn't want to discredit Olson because Olson is still his father in law. So Bro Brill puts various spins on his answers in an attempt to make the situation not look as bad as it clearly is. It's obvious that Bro Bellamy wrote the truth and it's also obvious that Bro Brill is still living in some degree of denial and or he doesn't want to offend his wife who no doubt still cares for her father. And regardless of what I think about Mr. Olson, you can't blame her for that.

I don't claim to know everything Greg and I know that I'm no where near always right, but Brother, I read both sides of this "going to conference sick story" and it's totally obvious where the truth lies.

Answer: You need to attend conference sick or not because if you don't, it will be a bad testimony for the org because you are the daughter and son in law of Olson. Plain and simple, open and closed, end of story.

Chief

DS or GS said...

Chief Jeff,

I reread the comments, and still think my take is pretty accurate.

Bro. Bellamy says he posted out of anger (which is fine), now regrets it (which is fine) because Bro. Brill didn't want to be involved (which is fine) and have his story made public at this time (which is fine). So Bro. Bellamy apologized (which is fine), Bro. Brill accepted (which is fine), and they are still buds (also fine).

I am sorry we will not hear the rest of the story at this time (cause it was turning out to be a good one), but I am not sure why you kept interrupting Bro. Brill's narrative, when he was willing to tell the story anyway of his own volition? He could have been quizzed later.

I know I am privy to a lot of damaging info on the Cult (as you are), but am not allowed to tell it at this time. Pastor Briggs even contacted me a few times to delete things off Deb’s Blog that he said he shouldn’t have posted. I deleted them no problem. Kris Moore also. I have also asked you to delete things from your Blog that I didn’t want on there anymore, you deleted them without a second thought. Bro. Bellamy shared he let his anger override his judgment, and posted without thinking things through. No problem, his choice.

Logically, at least to me, being made to attend a conference sick is similar to being made to attend conference when you can’t afford it. In both cases you have no business being there.

Also, if the Brill’s want to maintain a relationship with the Olson’s then they will have to tread softly. That is their choice, cause guarantee, if pushin’ comes to shuvin’ Rev. Olson will choose Pastor Davis over anyone.

I still would like to hear the rest of Bro. Brill’s story, if he is amenable to this. And I still love you Chief, and we can still quiz him later, and I am done lecturing you.

Gregory the Foolish and Unlearned

DS or GS said...

P.S. I changed some of the code on Deb's Blog, and Don N Ange informed me that posting works on both their phones now. They will try with their PC's later.

I am keeping my fingers crossed, cause I really want to read what you all have to say.

Gregory

Anonymous said...

I'm glad to see that Danny and Edward have kissed and made up. And there was a great peace among the brethren and all was well in the land.

You see folks, Kekel can bring people together. What a Great man of gawd!

Now we can go have a good conference! Yippee!

Chief said...

Greg said...

I am sorry we will not hear the rest of the story at this time (cause it was turning out to be a good one), but I am not sure why you kept interrupting Bro. Brill's narrative.

Chief said...

Because it was clear where Bro Brill was going. The questions had to be asked (it the truth was to be determined without a reasonable doubt) or the whole thing would have been all, kumbayah. So with me interjecting the questions, real answers were given which, (spun or not), only validated that what Edward wrote was accurate all along. And that was the issue with me. I didn't want Edwards statement to be simply dismissed as "half truth", when I understood (having talked to Edward) that it was whole truth. He had no reason to distort the truth but Bro Brill had every reason because of his family.

So here is what you have. Edward takes the time to post some very damning information. Chief reads it and decides what should make the headlines only after I consulted with Edward who agreed to me posting it on the cover. Then comes Bro Brill essentially discounting the validity of Edwards statement. Then comes Chief the self made investigator, with pointed questions, (which if answered) would alleviate any question in the minds of the readers here as to who was telling the truth, the whole truth, and who was not. Plain and simple.

That was my plan, not to hear a long drawn out explanation specifically designed to distort the facts. I was never interested in hearing the rest of the story because the story that I wrote was simple. I was simply interested in the facts and once again the facts are:

A man who was and or is seriously sick, not just mildly sick, was manipulated into forsaking his doctors advise for what was clearly no other reason than to not corrupt the so called "testimony" of the NTCC leadership and more specifically Mr. Olson. That is essentially the short version of what Edward wrote and I believe it to be the truth because and mainly because I believe that Edward told the truth in the first place and my pointed questions, which were answered, clearly validated just what Edward wrote.

Mr Brill, for all intensive purposes, admitted to everything, so I don't see where the half truths existed in the first place.

Chief

Don and Ange said...

Chief, you are right. The ntcc cares more about their "testimony" or public image than they care about Brill's health or life.

Anonymous said...

Danny Brill said "... we are looking for peace and others are looking for vengeance."

Hey, Danny. You speak of others looking for vengeance and you looking for peace as if you are on a much higher level than those,(us)of whom you speak. Well, I say that there is nothing wrong with desiring vengeance on those whom have wronged you. Shall I remind you that your own leaders fume out spewage about those who have left that crooked org. and dare speak of the bad things that happened to them. I've been there and heard RWD and Kekel speak of such vengeance. What's more, let me remind you of the Lord himself desiring vengeance on his enemies and will execute it speedily. And our dearly beloved Paul who ask the Lord to reward Alexander the copper smith for his deeds. Alexander was kind of like your beloved/hated Pastor...He caused a lot of people great harm!

Bye!

Anonymous said...

i remember the brills i do pray they have peace

Anonymous said...

all this stuff is so sad..at least ministers can put ina letter of resignation...denis is going around kicking ministers and their families out of hopcc for no other reason it seems but because of money and they won't bow down to him

Anonymous said...

i would have never guessed in million years hopcc would have turned to this...i mean they are kick out ministers who have young children no job because they are full time and no money and the place s they live are owned by the church or to someone who attends the church its so sad

DS or GS said...

Jeff (regarding your last post),

Thanks, I understand your tack a little better now.

The only reason I don't agree with your method is because Bro. Bellamy wasn't backing down from what he wrote, while still reconciling with Bro. Brill. And I didn’t feel he needed help. And maybe the following will help you understand our tack a little better also:

Bro. Brill is not the enemy; he has resigned but should/does want to maintain a relationship with his in-laws. This requires a great amount of delicacy on the Brill's part.

We also had this same desire, to maintain our family ties to Becky and John, and were on good terms with them until Senior Pastor Kekel's one-time visit to Panama (the only time an overseer has ever visited Panama…ever) a mere month after we left Korea. So since he wrecked our relationship with Becky, we did not have to tread softly anymore.

It needs to be noted that while Senior Pastor Kekel was sowing discord between Becky, John and us I was still an ordained Minister with NTCC (and Deb was a Licensed Minister). And was for the whole year following (2008), since they renewed my license. My License said I was assigned to Rupert, Idaho. If he had a problem with me he should have tried to work it out with. He had the opportunity, and I made overtures toward him during this time. I even sent him, Becky, Deb, and Tanya (he involved her in this also) an email apologizing for anything I might have done wrong.

Yet, it was almost 2.5 years until we started Deb's Blog (2010). As many of you know, our Blog was originally to be about Deb’s experiences before Senior Pastor Kekel (or most others) was even in NTCC. Since everyone else was covering the more recent decades of NTCC’s existence. And would have been about 4 articles long, and then remained static. Except I was going to provide reference/research links (which I did), and keep it updated, so it could be used as a reference for the other Blogs (which it is at times). Deb had some things she wanted to share, and I was going to build, moderate, and maintain it.

Things were going according to our plan. During this time Senior Pastor Kekel posted his now infamous “Shunk” article about 3 months after Deb started her Blog.

The timeline is Deb posted articles on 1/23/2010, 2/2/10, and 2/26/10, and had about one more to go. Senior Pastor Kekel posted his “Shunk” article on 4/20/2010. I responded (mainly to make a joke out of it) on 4/25/2010. Just as his Panama visit, the timing seemed fishy. After that we just posted whatever we wanted, with no regard for our original intent.

After some discussion on Thursday 9/27/2010, and hindsight being 20/20, Deb and I are sure that if we had not gotten any interference from the Cult in our relationship with Becky, Deb's Blog wouldn't have started, because our main interest would have been to keep our relationship with Becky intact. Especially since the Blogs that were in place were (and are) doing a fine job, and didn’t need any help from us.

Believe it or not, there is a good chance I would have been with NTCC a lot longer, but their documented lack of forthrightness, obfuscation, and sowing of discord prevented this. I didn’t have any disagreement with them, but I did have some questions/concerns I was talking to Rev. Olson about, that were personally important to me, and that Senior Pastor Kekel was no way involved in.

They still haven’t given me a clear reason why they did not renew my license for 2009. Yes, I sent in the required fees on time, and planned on continuing to renew my license, and was not going to resign…there was no need to.

But, Deb resigned in December of 2008, her mind was made up, and she was sick of their nonsense (and Senior Pastor Kekel’s conduct).

CONTINUED BELOW…

DS or GS said...

We understand the importance of warning others, but family is more important to us now. We would trade all the information on our Blog for our relationship with John and Becky to be what it was before Senior Pastor Kekel’s visit to Panama to sow discord.

To this day we do not try to contact people still in the Cult (other than Becky, and that was to see how they fared during the recent earthquake in the Philippines). I have no NTCC’rs as FACEBOOK friends, because none have ever sent me a friend request (other than Pastor Freeman in Wyoming). We do Blog though, because thanks to Senior Pastor Kekel, we have nothing more to lose. Plus, warning others is a Christian’s duty (that’s why he does it, right?).

Senior Pastor Kekel did so much seemingly irreparable damage to our relationship with Becky and John that not even their Father’s 2009 funeral was able to bring us all together, and the division remains to this day. Senior Pastor Kekel had absolutely no involvement with the questions I had. He pursued his own agenda in Panama, and with his “Shunk” article.

Deborah & Gregory (I think I will make this an article on Deb’s Blog someday)

Danny Brill said...

I suppose my life began @ 2:24am or at least that's what ended up on my Birth Certificate; you can call me an early bird special, if you want because my life could be described as 53 shades of olive drab, black & white, blue & tan, and then of course we will never have time for all of the other beautiful colors in the rainbow - just too many to list here.

I know there are a myriad of church folk, and non church folk alike out there who would like answers to your specific question. I will be upfront with you - I may have the answer - I may not know anything about it. I am not really here to answer your questions. I am reluctantly here (thanks Rapid-ED) because I was pulled into the current scheme of things involving two of the most precious people I know Rev. & Sis. Bellamy. I used to fight along side RAB Thru the various fact-net wars leading up to some of those he was involved with before he got too sick to continue.

Okay, we all learn and grow thru this process. My personal opinions about many things have changed just during the last 5 years of dealing with my own health related issues.

It is true that I was medically discharged from the Army in Sept. 1991 - the VA wanted to immediately take over and provide me with %100 DISABILITY, TO INCLUDE PAYING FOR ALL OF MY TUITION, BOOKS,FEES, AND PAY ME EXTRA MONEY JUST TO HAVE $$$ IN MY POCKETS.

Please let me make it clear, Rev. Kekel told me the choice was totally up to me. No one was going to force me either way.

No one had ever taken me aside at any point in my NTCC history and said, bro this is what you need to do. I sincerely felt the Holy Spirit was calling me to attend NTCC, and in my mind I gave up to opportunity to be in that program.

DS or GS said...

Rapid-ED...Poor Bro. Bellamy. Funny though. NRN.

Gregory

.

Chief said...

I do understand you point Greg. Actually more than you may know. I know how difficult it can be when families are broken as a direct result of their involvement or lack of involvement with the org. I also understand Danny Brill's stance and why he would take that stance.

I do however also understand the heartlessness that resulted in "The Plot Thickens" ever being posted. I often also desire to take the "high ground" for the sake of others and I've done it many times. Well Greg, hopefully through it all, I'm not becoming as heartless as the NTCC leadership because that's certainly not my intent but I will say this.

Battles are not won in war because both sides decide to always take the high ground while always being the humanitarian and or good guy. Sometimes you have to use decisive and overwhelming force. You have to overcome the enemy with very large and powerful bombs which clearly tilt the battle in your favor. So I don't know Greg and I mean that. I understand your concern for Bro Brill in this case but also understand that I wanted to tilt this battle in favor of clearly showing the truth which I really believe was accomplished.

I understand that Bro Brill isn't the quote "enemy" here but you can best believe that he has been used by them and the battle lines can often become obscure. The NTCC is battling to have peoples money and time and cult control of their entire lives and I'm battling to get their lives back and they often can't do that unless they see the clear truth and often that doesn't even work.

A very sick man and his family were thrown in the back seat for the sake of someones stupid testimony and I can't stand it.

Chief

The Recipe that Started it ALL... said...

I took a menial job washing cars and running errands for the Puyallup Nissan Dealership. It worked out to be the perfect job for me. I am the type of person who likes to hang around and figure out how things work. With little to no commute time, and no overtime, I had a lot of free time to hand around the campus to see how thinks worked around there.

1. I got to spent a lot of time around Rev. & Sis. Kekel's house, and soon their baby was born.

2. This also kind of opened the door for me to be able to hang around Pastor & Sister Davis (esp 1992-1994)

3. Unbeknownst to me there was some serious match making going on he highest levels (TMK/VED) to conspire to set me and Ms. Regina Olson up for life. Certain tests were set into motion and my love life must be put on hold until I can first prove myself worthy of my beloved's hand.

DS or GS said...

Chief,

Maybe my point is, though it is too late for Deb and I, it is not for Bro. Brill (we're talking like he is not in the room).

We don't need his story, we don't need any more stories.

But, I am just as glad as you are when one shows up. I am glad Bro. Brills story was partially told, and would like to hear more, but it is not my call, and...ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. Sorry I have been up all night.

We are still friends, it is what it is, and we can all write what we want.

I went ahead and posted my last comment on Deb's Blog.

Gregory

Danny Brill said...

It was a Sunday Evening Service back in what they now call the old chapel or the small chapel or whatever; and it was packed. It was my turn to take the usher duties for the back door with included monitoring the parking lot areas as well. God had already spoken to me clearly earlier in the day while I was doing the dishes "Why don't you ask Pastor Davis if Moses needs A HELPER DOWN IN DENVER?"

Danny Brill said...

Rev. & Sister Moses, The Late Rev. Briggs & Sister Briggs, myself, and the Amazing Rev. Chris. Golden, We all lived in the same apt complex, and Bro. Briggs even helped me land a job that paid more than was we were begin paid in Washington State.

Are these posts totally boring you? Should I stop? Or should I continue to where or some of the really really hard stuff comes into place???

DS or GS said...

I am reading, it is interesting (I never really got to know you). Post what you want, skip what you want.

I will be up a while longer if you keep posting.

Gregory

DS or GS said...

While I am waiting...

Chief, I know you understand everything I write, you get my inferences, humor (such as it is), can see where I am going with things, etc. To you (and I hope everyone else) I am transparent.

I don't care about high or low ground. The truth is the truth, no matter how gently or harshly it is presented.

I love what you do, I just don't do it the way you do. And sometimes I don't agree with you. But, so what.

Gregory

DS or GS said...

Nite.

Danny Brill said...

Basically, I helped work in that pioneer church for almost two years and it was time to return to WA to get married. Our ceremony was on a perfect day, We had about 200 friends and family members in attendance. The weather actually cooperated with deep blue skies and just little fluffy clouds here and there. We took on night of a a temporary honeymoon, knowing that better things would be in store for us later.

W/I six months we were transferred to work in the inner city church in Saint Louis and that was a whole nutter world. With the help of her beloved and conscientious husband, my 18 year old bride still had not obtained her GED... so we went to work on that promptly and it wasn't too long and the girl made that happened cause she is very smart, just not in a flashy way.

Edward said...

I am posting again so everyone can understand Bro. Brill's Rapid Ed Bellamy comment. So much for not posting again, but I feel free because there is absolutely no anger and I am not putting out any information about NTCC.

When I was a Lay Pastor in St. Louis Missouri (February 2001-Novemeber 2002 Bro. Brill was one of the Associates) a man called me and asked, "Is this Rapid Ed Bellamy?" I responded with, "this is Ed Bellamy." He then said this is rapid Ed Bellamy. I told him I am Ed Bellamy, but I don't know a "Rapid Ed Bellamy." He then said, I know this is Rapid Ed Bellamy. From then on Bro. Brill called me Rapid Ed Bellamy. This man never called me again, and to this day I don't know who he is or whom he was talking about.

Bro. Rapid Ed Bellamy:)

Danny Brill said...

Out of nowhere it seemed liked two years had gone by and Pastor Davis was needed in guy with printing press experience to help print the trumpet and stuff. So we moved back to WA. Rev. Gandy Showed me how to handle the administrative side of things, along with the actual running of the press, and Crazy Mike mostly handled the creative side. The print shop was too small for the three of us so I kept getting farmed out to do other jobs. Which, I guess, I really did not mind but it all seemed to thwart my purpose.

About the same time my Tachycardia issues became more pronounced and seemingly more progressive. I tried to explain this to a prominent group of faith healers one night and I was disregarded as if noting I had to say bore any resplendence to those great faith healers in the room. So my heart issues continued on from saying I had an mild Silent heart attack to the current findings of Cogestive heart failure at age 42 with the urgent need to two heart vavles replaced with mechanicle vavles with in the next two year or else my survival rate does't look very good.

Don and Ange said...

That's funny bro. Rapid Ed.

Danny Brill said...

Some may say that I am worse than an infidel. Maybe I am, we will let God be the judge of that. Before I got married I was not fully aware of just how difficult it would be to be to buy the right kind of insurance for my family. I have also been fighting with the regional VA Office to gt my claim moved up to %100 when I can't even walk around the block and back.

Don and Ange said...

Good stuff Bro Brill. Sorry about all of the suffering you are going through.

Danny Brill said...

In Summary,

I lived the life I chose to live. No special favors were given to me. I have no regrets for being a part of NTCC. I know I TOO have made my share of mistakes (sins - WHATEVER)along the way. For those whom I have wronged, please find it in your heart to forgive me. Yes, I did have a "falling out with Pastor Davis" - but the miraculous thing is the Lord laid it one my heart to call him and to work things out with him before he had his personal heart issue - and for that I am forever grateful.

Chief said...

Greg,

I have a fairly long drive to work and I had a chance to think about this whole situation and our conversations back and forth. And first:

Danny,

Feel free to post whatever you'd like and I just ask that you consider what I'm about to write to Greg.

Greg,

I understand your approach and what I perceive to be your consideration for others and here is where I'm at as far as families remaining united goes. In the recent past, I've received three phone calls from very concerned family members who are not a part of the NTCC. They called because the church has convinced their loved ones, (children, sisters, etc) to have as little to do with them as possible and the church members have done exactly that.

So here is what you have. I know it's important for people who are out of the NTCC to try and maintain relationships with people who are still in the NTCC and I got that. I'm sympathetic to that need. The problem is, that need wouldn't even exist if people hadn't ever become a part of the NTCC and my hope is to prevent as many people as possible from ever becoming a part of the NTCC. I may never be able to get through to Olson and or Debs sister and as a result relationships,(if the NTCC leadership has their way) will continue to be broken. As a result I'm not sure how to help a few at the potential risk to the rest. Who knows? If I had all the answers, the NTCC would no longer exist because it is clearly a destructive organization which has been very effective at breaking up families for their own selfish and non-biblical reasons.

Anonymous said...

It seems that brill has to be very careful for the sake of his wife and daughter.
He had a "falling out with rw" but at the end it was brill himself who had to reach out and ask for forgiveness.
That is nice, I guess, when you are in the midst of dying at any moment you take the stance that nothing really matters and grudges vs. people are just too petty to have.
It is nice to know that he was never coerced into anything.
Even now, he is not a "minister" with the "ntcc" but they still attend as "members" in amarillo.
That is nice.
Now we know that we can get out of the org but still be friends, as long as we don't rock the boat!
That is nice.

One thing that I noticed is that he made mistakes(sins, whatever) why would he choose to make this assumption? because in the ntcc that is what we are condition to believe.

I noticed that when he went to amarillo he had a self sufficient small church, had good job and house, so why look into getting more education when you seemingly have it all there, could it be that brill wanted to fulfill his own will?
maybe all this happened because he tried to rely on is own instead of relying on God.

Anonymous said...

To imply that Bro Brill got sick because he wanted "rely on his own" is an irresponsible and judgmental statement. Just hope no one judges you through the same lens.

Chief said...

Anonymous said...

It is nice to know that he was never coerced into anything.
Even now, he is not a "minister" with the "ntcc" but they still attend as "members" in amarillo.
That is nice.
Now we know that we can get out of the org but still be friends, as long as we don't rock the boat!
That is nice.

One thing that I noticed is that he made mistakes(sins, whatever) why would he choose to make this assumption? because in the ntcc that is what we are condition to believe.

I noticed that when he went to amarillo he had a self sufficient small church, had good job and house, so why look into getting more education when you seemingly have it all there, could it be that brill wanted to fulfill his own will?
maybe all this happened because he tried to rely on is own instead of relying on God.

Chief said...

Never coerced into anything? I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic but if not. If not, I must have dummy written all over my head. If you were being sarcastic, please ignore my last statement.

Relying on himself vs relying on God? That didn't work to well for Robert Briggs, or any of the rest of us who left the NTCC. Being in the NTCC has absolutely nothing to do with Relying on God. God says you are unwise and or an infidel if you don't provide for your family. Your idea of "having it all there" and my idea are no doubt different. "Good job" is relative. Being wrongfully persuaded to attend conference isn't "having it all there" when you are sick as a dog and maybe near death. And you can't make it like people in the NTCC don't die prematurely because there have been too many deaths recently.

The Bible teaches us to "take care of ourselves and our families" which you seem to translate into "relying on ourselves". And that notion has been twisted into driving more NTCCers to poverty than any other factor. Trust God, trust God, and go to conference sick as a dog or with no money and I've seen it happen too many times. So I see how it goes again, assuming I'm not misinterpreting your message if you really meant it as sarcasm.

Speak real nice about Bro Brill but then craftily toss in the part about him "relying on himself vs relying on God". Typical unless I'm misinterpreting your intent.

Anonymous said...

Not trying to be boastful, but God has allowed the opportunity for us to almost be self insurable for life insurance. Given the probability that I have a 100% of dying(like the rest of the world, I bought a life insurance policy.

ns

Anonymous said...

Going after a degree when offered and challenging VA when needed is taking care of family. Don't degrade yourself for doing the best you can. You recognized the need to take care of your family and congregation when you stepped down. I pray you have a speedy recovery.

Anonymous said...

I remember what rw said in a conference: "good guys finish last"
It is a phrase that has stuck in my mind and now more and more I've seen that being good has nothing to do with being peaceful.
You can be good in coercing people to do things they don't want to do, for example.

Let's not forget that in the ntcc
we were conditioned to think and to attribute our successes and our failures to our walk with God. brill even is confused when he writes "failures (or sins, whatever) so it seems that he is struggling with that.
Maybe brill didn't wait to "confirm" his ministry when he took over the amarillo church? (sarcasm here)
Even mck alluded to the fact that he "waited" on God to "confirm" his ministry to do anything, that is why he is now "blessed" by God!
I laughed when I read about that.

brill should've stay put in graham and be "blessed" So I guess if anybody in the ntcc is not being "blessed" or "being sucessful" it's because they didn't wait for their ministry or calling to be "confirmed"


We all have to live our own life and if brill feels better to not make waves, well that is up to him, but the minute that you get involved with the daughter of the "head of the org" your life will be scrutinized by those that are in the lower echaelon of the org. that's just life.

Hopefully he'll get his health issues resolved for his wife and daughter.


DS or GS said...

Danny Brill said..."I tried to explain this to a prominent group of faith healers one night and I was disregarded as if noting I had to say bore any resplendence to those great faith healers in the room."

Question: Were these "faith healers" NTCC Executive Board members?

Gregory

DS or GS said...

Let me qualify something...

I think everyone should escape, even if it causes division with those still in (this is on them, not us).

But, once out, all that can reasonably done, should be done, to maintain family ties.

You will know very quickly if those within will be a part of your post-Cult life.

If not, there loss, move on and do what you want, post what you want, or don't post anything at all. When you leave you are free.

Gregory

Anonymous said...


NOw the story changes and bellamy said that all he said was out of anger!
brill being sick and all maybe complained to bellamy about how that the org. tried to put him on the spot by making him go to the conf.
But then brill says that his father in law in a loving way persuaded him to go, so now everything is not how bellamy said happened.
Many times people react out in anger and might say things they don't really mean that is why one has to be careful, but now the damage is done.
If there's a lesson to learn here is that sometimes is better to not say anything.
Feel sorry for brill because he has to live with that now and like rwd said one time: I forgive but don't forget.

Chief said...

Anonymous said...

But then brill says that his father in law in a loving way persuaded him to go, so now everything is not how bellamy said happened.

Chief said...

You are so full of it, it's unbelievable. I could care less if Edward wrote something out of anger or not. Just because it's in anger doesn't make it wrong or inaccurate. Secondly, how in the world could you consider anything of the sort being done in a loving way when the guy should have never gone to conference in the first place because he was as sick a dog?? Would you tell your kid to travel half way across the country if he was sick as a dog nigh unto death? If so, you are an inconsiderate jerk!

Thats like saying that I persuaded you in a loving way to put a gun up to your head and pull the trigger. "I knew I shouldn't put a gun up to my head because it would put a hole in my skull, and the doctor advised me not to, but my father in law persuaded me to do it, "IN A LOVING WAY"!!!! Are you out of your mind Anonymous??? You can't be serious??

And then on top that off, (because I read what people write) Olson pays his plain ticket so he could get there and get even sicker than a dog? Why would Olson do that if Danny has such a great job and such a thriving church as someone suggested? One of only two reasons and neither one was because Olson wanted to be a quote "blessing"!!! Either Danny wasn't so well off like Anonymous suggested because like so many other NTCC pastors Danny spent most or all of his extra money on the church, while Davis, Olson and Kekel's pockets get fatter. Two, (this is more likely the case and most certainly a combination of the two) Olson wanted to save face so bad that he bribed his own son in law to come to conference, (sick as a dog) by purchasing him the plane ticket.

Come on Anonymous!!! Come on!!! The fact is Danny was sick as he's already clearly stated and I mean real sick!!! Secondly he has also stated that he had a fall out with Davis and it's clear why! So it's clear that Olson was under much pressure from Davis, Danny was sick as a dog, and so Olson could save face with Davis, he very subtly bribes his son in law to attend conference, pays for his plane ticket, (just like me paying for a bullet so that someone could shoot them self in the head), Danny goes to Graham anyway and gets even sicker, (which he admitted to) just like his doctor said he would. Then Danny puts in his resignation letter, and for all intensive purposed leaves the NTCC, but so his father in law didn't totally lose face with Davis, Danny stays involved in Amarillo and decides to bend even further to his father in law by apologizing to RWD when he really should have been telling RWD to stick his abusive non caring ways up his butt where the sun don't shine.

Now that is what happened and you have to be willfully blind not to see it. Lovingly persuade someone to put their very life in danger??? Are you kidding me? Are you serious?? If they even cared about the guy, they would have told his wife to stay home with him where she belonged and take care of the sick dude and none of them would have went to conference. Danny said himself that it was "inferred" that he should attend conference for the sake of someones testimony.

Strike three, you are out Anonymous!!! Checkmate!!! My logic is irrefutable based on the evidence written right here on this blog.

Chief said...

There is one thing in this world that I have very litter or no tolerance for: Insulting me by trying to play me like an idiot while suggesting that I can't see what is clearly before my eyes. That spin twist, flip flop, tap dance garbage nonsense may work with a brainwashed NTCCer but Brother it doesn't work with me. The only times that I was born "yesterday" was when I was a child and when I was stupid enough to trust RWD and his fellow leaders. I'm not born yesterday anymore and I can CLEARLY see right through the NTCCs spin tactics. They are so obvious to me now that it hardly makes sense that I ever fell for them in the first place. By Gods grace, it won't happen again because my eyes and my brain are open.

Chief said...

Chilli Cheese Dog ain't backing up. Lovingly persuade someone to risk their own life. Are you kidding me? That is an oxymoron. Do folks reading this blog know what an "oxymoron" means. There is no such thing as telling someone to risk their own health and life being considered "loving persuasion". To save your child from drowning, YES!! To pull your wife from burning car, YES!! To go to an annual conference so that you don't mess up someones testimony? HELL NO!

Anonymous said...

That isn't loving persuasion, that's inconsideration and manipulation. There is a difference.

Chief said...

Bingo Anonymous.

Don and Ange said...


Anon said, "like rwd said one time: I forgive but don't forget."

DNA say,

That is another oxymoron and more proof of how ungodly rodger wilson davis is; for God said "their sins and iniquities will I remember no more" [Heb 10:17 and Heb 8:12]. You really haven't forgiven something if you use it as emotional ammunition, constantly holding it over a person's head; davis holds grudges, not godly at all!

Fisher said...

Chief, you should title this thread "Why Olson's Son-In-Law Left NTCC"

Fisher said...

The subtitle could be "Generally, Yes; Locally, No"

Chief said...

You are right Fisher but I'll give the dude a break. No reason to "add insult to injury". Believe me, I hear you and I briefly considered it. Danny doesn't want anymore attention than he's already gotten. I'll tell you this. Let Kekel come at me like he did with Edward and I won't back off or apologize for one second. Let me post the truth because I got the story straight from the horses mouth like Edward did, and have someone come on here and tell this audience that my story is full of half truths when I know for a fact that I told the whole truth, and there won't be any backing up.

I'm positive that Edward told the truth, the whole truth. Having said that, Danny should be given a break and he is only doing what most of us would do if we were in the same shoes, so I'll leave the title alone. Nevertheless, good suggestion.

Chief said...

Fish I'm like Popeye:

"I've had all that I can stand, I can't stand no more".

Fisher said...

Danny said, "Yes, I did have a "falling out with Pastor Davis" - but the miraculous thing is the Lord laid it one my heart to call him and to work things out with him before he had his personal heart issue - "

So was rw's "heart issue" a physical problem or a spiritual problem?

Anonymous said...

Danny said, "Yes, I did have a "falling out with Pastor Davis" - but the miraculous thing is Bro Olson laid it on my heart to call him and to work things out with him before he had his personal heart issue

Chief said...

LOL. Good one Anon. Let me tell you this, if it wasn't Olson, it wasn't the Lord either. Thats another thing about the NTCC. The Lord laid this on my heart, the Lord laid that on my heart, the Lord told me this, the Lord told me that.

Really? Really? So why didn't the Lord lay it on Ashmores heart to go heal all these folks with cancer, a few of which have recently died? So the Lord is more concerned about someone making up with Davis than someone getting healed? Really? It's funny how Ashmore and Olson have all these healing services (which I've witnessed with no tangible results) but no one gets healed of any real sickness, illness or disease. Don't you think?

Anonymous said...

It's a big show. It's a production. Same with all that tongue talking that everyone in the NTCC does.

Danny Brill said...

Chief, Greg, NS, et all:

I want to thank you guys for your moments of compassion and the times during the last day or so of posts when you were willing to be understanding of my situation. No sarcasm, just sincere thanks,

Almost 20 years of ministry and about 18 months since I resigned from the Org as a minister takes into account a lot of time for things to happen and sort of happen and happen just for a little while and then not happen for awhile; especially when it comes to relationships, health issues, and financial issues. I do not plan to "tell the whole story" - at least not on this forum. But there are a few things I would like to clear up:

1. Thankfully The Honorable Bro. Bellamy did NOT share everything he knew/knows.

2. I resigned as a minister before the Spring 2011 conference ever started. I also stated My poor health reasons for not wanting to travel.

3. Rev. Olson was more concerned about my resignation as a minister than he was about his reputation of his son-in-law not attending. His hope was that I could speak to Pastor Davis in person regarding the situation of my resignation, more than anything else.

4. Care and consideration were given to me while I was there for the weekend - it was even made clear to me that I did not have to attend the services if I did not feel up to it.

5. The eventual conversation with Pastor David did not go as well as Rev. Olson had hoped. I remained cordial and polite, but after several days of thinking about it - I was all the more determined to leave NTCC altogether.

6. Many things have happened during the last 18 months, but even before I ended up in ICU and did not know how I got there, we had already decided to attend the NTCC local church for the time being, hoping that I would eventually regain my strength and we could start our own ministry more in line with the way we feel the Lord would want us to have instead of the NTCC model.

7. As far as I remember, when I spoke to Pastor Davis, there was no asking for forgiveness - but more so making sure that we were at peace with one another. No one prompted my to call (other than the Holy Ghost) and the conversation was brief - but now I felt I was at peace with everyone that I could think of from my past.

DS or GS said...

Great. Thanks for the stories Danny. Take care. Send me a friend request on Facebook (I don't ever talk about the cult over there). Glad I got to know you a little more.

Gregory

Anonymous said...

4. Care and consideration were given to me while I was there for the weekend - it was even made clear to me that I did not have to attend the services if I did not feel up to it.

Once again, then why did they have you go up there? Testimony, is the only logical answer and they didn't care about your health or they wouldn't have had you come in the first place.

Chief said...

Good God Anonymous was right. Look at the contradiction here.

7. As far as I remember, when I spoke to Pastor Davis, there was no asking for forgiveness - but more so making sure that we were at peace with one another. """""No one prompted my to call (other than the Holy Ghost)""""" and the conversation was brief - but now I felt I was at peace with everyone that I could think of from my past.

Contradiction:

3. Rev. Olson was more concerned about my resignation as a minister than he was about his reputation of his son-in-law not attending. """"""His hope was that I could speak to Pastor Davis in person""""""" regarding the situation of my resignation, more than anything else.

So one minute it's the Holy Ghost prompting him to talk to Davis and a minute before it was Olson's hope that Danny could speak with Pastor Davis in person.

Respectfully, (and I'm being sincere) it is possible that Danny's illness has messed him up a little bit because he really contradicts himself.

Look what Anonymous wrote earlier in jest to what Danny had previously wrote....

Danny said, "Yes, I did have a "falling out with Pastor Davis" - but the miraculous thing is Bro Olson laid it on my heart to call him and to work things out with him before he had his personal heart issue

Previously Danny wrote....

Danny said, "Yes, I did have a "falling out with Pastor Davis" - but the miraculous thing is the Lord laid it on my heart to call him and to work things out with him before he had his personal heart issue - "

IMAGINE THAT!!!!!

But then once again Danny wrote...

Rev. Olson was more concerned about my resignation as a minister than he was about his reputation of his son-in-law not attending.

Chief wrote...

Really? Danny I appreciate you coming on here with a willingness to share dialogue but Brother, I don't buy it. That may be what you've written, (even though I believe that deep down inside you know otherwise) but I've known people in the NTCC for entirely too long and I know the way they operate. I'm convinced that your father in law got you up there for no other reason than to save face (for his sake) and I also know for a fact because of what you wrote that it was your father in law who prompted you to talk to Davis. Your father in law is not the Lord. Danny you wrote this your self and I quote:

"His hope was that I could speak to Pastor Davis in person regarding the situation of my resignation, more than anything else."

Chief said...

The only way you knew that it was "his hope" was because he either told you directly or he told someone else who told you directly, so Danny it wasn't the Lord, and Bro I'm just being real. What Bro Bellamy wrote is the truth and you know it is because you told him and I'll tell you something else. He also told me more (and I'm not making that up) that he decided not to write that you also know about, and out of respect for you, I won't write it either "if" you don't push me. So Danny come on. Lets be real men here. You know good and well that these NTCC leaders aren't (and I won't mention in this case which "ONE" I'm talking about) straight up honorable guys but rather they can be connivers who try to connive people and get their "pastors" to connive people (specifically young military people) out of their money.

Now Danny, I'm going to leave this one alone but please (and I ask that respectfully) don't push me on this one because I also know more than you'd like posted because I talked to Edward. I think you know what I'm talking about. And Danny, I love the military (as I've served over 20 years) and I don't like folks taking advantage of soldiers and I'll leave it at that.

Continued below...

Chief said...

I'm exercising restraint for your sake and Edwards sake because Edward is a good dude, but I'm not like Edward. I'll drop a bomb and sleep real good at night and there won't be any apologies so lets all be real men around here. Edward told me something in confidence that you told him in confidence and I'll leave it alone but "please" don't push me. Leave it alone and please stop making excuses for the NTCC leaders. Enough has already been said. No more needs to be said. Just let "me" have the last word because I "WILL" have the last word because this whole situation makes me outright sick and I say sick because it really disturbs me.

You are a good guy Danny and the NTCC leadership treated you wrong and YOU KNOW IT. Stop making excuses for them. Sometimes Danny, the best thing to say or the best thing to write is "NOTHING". I'm fine if we drop this whole thing right here. In a NTCC church, an NTCC pastor always has the last word, and in this case (not in all cases) and on this blog, I also plan to have the last word because once again, this situation makes me sick!!! It's obvious what these NTCC leaders are all about (if it wasn't already) as a direct result of everything that has been written on this very thread.

Sincerely Danny,
Chief

Don and Ange said...

Danny Brill,

I don't know you personally but in the past my wife has spoken highly of you. I really hope that God heals you and that you spend many good years with your family and in the ministry if that is your desire. Contrary to popular belief, we have absolutely no desire to see people from or in the ntcc suffer and we do not want to add to your suffering either. Hasty and Briggs both passed away recently and to us these things are tragic and we don't take any pleasure whatsoever in them. You seem like a good person and we wish you the best.

The ntcc has a way of controlling people even after they have left the ntcc. The work they do in your heart can be a life-long dilemma. Most of us came to know God in the ntcc and much of what we experienced in our salvation and walk with God was intertwined with ntcc doctrine and behavior and it is very hard to sort it all out.

I realized the difference after leaving both God and the ntcc. There is a hopelessness and fear that come with leaving God and there is false fear that invades your heart when you leave the ntcc. We all were made to believe that the ntcc was the last hope for man on this earth, and the fact that all other churches and denominations were spoken against left us all with fear of departure. When you come to the point in your life that God is still real beyond the ntcc and you feel his hand moving in your heart and life, you realize that God and the ntcc are not one in the same and you also have to see the false teachings and yes, the hypocrisy of the ntcc leaders.

I know that not everyone is the same, and people see things differently, but for me, letting go of all of the ntcc critical ways of thinking about others felt really good. Looking at the ntcc from the outside is a whole lot different than being subject to the non-biblical man made rules on the inside. If you use the same reasoning skills that you were taught in the ntcc to find fault with other organizations, and apply them to the ntcc, you find very high levels of hypocrisy and phoniness all the way up to the top.

To be continued....

Don and Ange said...

Continued from above-

Looking back on things I'd have to say that the leaders in the ntcc leave people without hope, money, friends and completely down and out when they leave. People have suffered at the hands of these judgmental creeps for too long now, and being one who has suffered many unnecessary evils in the ntcc, I choose to warn folks and expose this group for what they are. When people make excuses for them there is none better than Chief to make sense of it all. We also feel obligated to share our feelings about things. I hope you don't take offense at what I'm about to say, but it's necessary to share this stuff because what has happened on this blog the last few days is exactly what happens in the ntcc every day. It is a form of mind control and it comes straight out of the cult handbook.

When you spoke of Bro. Bellamy using the phrases half truths and many of us doing things out of vengeance, in the same breath that you used to say that Bellamy was a man of God, it seemed very manipulative and purposeful. There was a definite purpose behind your words and I believe that it was to get Bellamy to stop talking about the ntcc. First you praised him, then you admonished him. It is what it is. In regards to what you shared, I have to agree with Chief in that you were extremely evasive and that you tap danced around the questions in a very ntcc-esque way. For example, even in your last comment I feel like you were playing us all for a bunch of fools:

1. Thankfully The Honorable Bro. Bellamy did NOT share everything he knew/knows.

*This was your purpose all along and this seems insulting when you add the title honorable, while accusing him of telling half truths. Cult manipulation 101.

To be continued.....

Don and Ange said...

continued from above...

3. Rev. Olson was more concerned about my resignation as a minister than he was about his reputation of his son-in-law not attending. His hope was that I could speak to Pastor Davis in person regarding the situation of my resignation, more than anything else.

* This is hard because you are married to the daughter of Olson and I understand that there are concessions that must be made to have peace in your family. I have to give you a pass on this one but I will say that just about everyone that has read your comments can see that there is more to this than just being concerned about your resignation as a minister. By the way, he should have been much more concerned about your physical well being than your standing as an ntcc minister.

4. Care and consideration were given to me while I was there for the weekend - it was even made clear to me that I did not have to attend the services if I did not feel up to it.

* Really? Care and consideration were given to you after they coerced you to travel against your doctor's orders? It was made clear to you that you didn't have to attend services? In a normal church this stuff wouldn't even be an issue. If they really wanted to show care and consideration, they would have told you to stay home and encouraged your wife to stay home and take care of you.

5. The eventual conversation with Pastor David did not go as well as Rev. Olson had hoped. I remained cordial and polite, but after several days of thinking about it - I was all the more determined to leave NTCC altogether.

*Thank you for your honesty here, but previously you said you left "generally but not locally".

to be continued.....

Chief said...

Don and Ange,

BINGO!!!!! DING, DING, DING!!!!! You nailed it. You are the winner. Very well put in a way that I do not possess the ability to convey. Don and Ange. I really respect you guys and I'm not using the "honorable" approach. I mean what I say with no ulterior motives. Very well written and very well conveyed.

VR,
Chief

Don and Ange said...

continued from above...

6. Many things have happened during the last 18 months, but even before I ended up in ICU and did not know how I got there, we had already decided to attend the NTCC local church for the time being, hoping that I would eventually regain my strength and we could start our own ministry more in line with the way we feel the Lord would want us to have instead of the NTCC model.

*My personal opinion for what it is worth is that you need to make a clean break from the ntcc if you desire to minister outside of the ntcc. When you meet people that have true love without strings attached you learn a lot more than what the ntcc has to offer.

7. As far as I remember, when I spoke to Pastor Davis, there was no asking for forgiveness - but more so making sure that we were at peace with one another. No one prompted my to call (other than the Holy Ghost) and the conversation was brief - but now I felt I was at peace with everyone that I could think of from my past.

*If anyone should have apologized, it should have been RWD and Olson. They are the ones that compromised your safety and disregarded your Doctor's advise. Did any of them pray for your healing, by the way? I believe they were in the damage control mode as Ashmore was when Jerry left.

I have come to know that the ntcc is not all about love and forgiveness and doing what seems good to God, because none of this seems good to God. Bro. you have endured some very unfortunate mind squeezing by the very best manipulator's that you will ever find in the world. I look at you as a victim in all this and it also speaks of how mind control works throughout the very highest levels of the ntcc.

I hope that you can look at all this as constructive criticism and not a bunch of vengeful insults coming from a bunch of God haters. I believe that you have endured a lot more than any of us have, physically, mentally and spiritually. I think that it did take a lot of character to resign and I believe that you are a good dude, but some of your thought processes are still influenced by some of the greatest con-artists who ever lived. They molded you and shaped you to serve their purposes, and the fact that you have stood up to them at all is admirable.

Take care, Bro. Brill, and we wish you and your family the best.

Don and Ange

Don and Ange said...

Chief said:

"Very well put in a way that I do not possess the ability to convey."

DnA say,

Thanks Chilly Cheese Dog, for your kind words. A lot of this stuff has built up on the inside over the past couple days, but we didn't have the time to address any of it. We feel the same way about you and many of the folks that have overcome the ntcc madness and posted on your blog. We all have a lot to share and we have found your blog to be quite therapeutic. Hope you have a great weekend and enjoy some football you sinner. Pray for the refs!!!

DnA

Fisher said...

"Pray for the refs!!!"

HHAHAHHHHAHA! LOLOLOL!

Chief said...

Don and Ange wrote and quoted...

1. Thankfully The Honorable Bro. Bellamy did NOT share everything he knew/knows.

*This was your purpose all along and this seems insulting when you add the title honorable, while accusing him of telling half truths. Cult manipulation 101.

Chief said...

And the church said,

Amen and Amen. Don and Ange,

Your understanding is clear and refreshing. My-my, how the blinders get lifted off once someone not only leaves the NTCC physically but psychologically. It takes a while, but once you totally get those NTCC dudes out of your head, the light comes on bright, and everything becomes very clear. It's amazing how good the NTCC is at training people how to effectively manipulate others. As you've noted, that tactic was recently used quite well.

The good news is, it no longer works on us Don and Ange. It can be appropriately called, "enlightenment".

Chief said...

If I'm ever thrown into a battle of psychological warfare, I want Don and Ange to be my battle buddies.

Sincerely.

Don and Ange said...

Thanks Jeff,

If this country ever goes to war, I'm coming to your house because you have all the guns! LOL!!! Arm me and I'll shoot at the enemy.

Chief said...

And we'll make it happen. Hopefully this country never comes to that but if it does, I'm prepared, and you guys are invited. My buddy from Black Skull Tactical will organize us. I was at his house just the other day getting his computer straight. He has some very nice weapons and an extremely cool dog. His dog is a fantastic animal and extremely smart.

Edward said...

Again, to all the frequent this blog. I have decided to try and not to post anything else about the NTCC, for my own personal well being not because of the NTCC. IT IS FOR ME AND DEFINITELY NOT FOR THEM!!! Bro. Brill knows that I know a lot more than I am telling; not just what I know happened to him.

I have had board members (not the Executive Board)and former board members sit in my living room and tell me things. (not to mention what I saw and experienced first hand) I don't know why they felt comfortable with me to confess these things to me. They would never admit what they have said, because Rev. Kekel emailed me again and said he asked one of them about what I said. The Board Member said, I misunderstood what he was saying. My question to that is, how can you misunderstand them saying Pastor Davis did me wrong, but I forgive him?

BTW I was angry NOT untruthful!!!

Rapid Ed Bellamy

Chief said...

I understand Edward. It wasn't very long ago that I thought I'd made up my mind to back off this blog and not keep starting new threads. But then Robert Briggs died and many circumstances surrounding his death really got me stirred up again. It really let me know there was still a cause so here I am. I'm sure I'll get tired of this again and then something else will happen and I'll get stirred up all over again. I understand totally Edward and I know you weren't being untruthful and anyone who reads what's been written knows that as well, (if they have any sense).

Take it easy Edward and have a good one and I also hope the best for Danny. He's gone through a lot with his illness. I can't even imagine. It's a hard life in the NTCC and it has nothing to do with persecution. The only persecution in the NTCC comes directly from the NTCC leadership. I can't stand the NTCC. Guys like Olson and Davis should be in jail and Kekel should be right there with them cleaning their cells. These guys are a menace to society and that is a fact.

Anonymous said...

Really? A cool dog is always a good thing!

Anonymous said...

Agreed. Hopefully this country never comes to that.

Chief said...

Yes that dog is. This guys dog is very smart and a great protector. Come rolling up in my friend's house if you want to and see what happens. If he don't shoot you first, the dog will get you. You cant get anywhere near his house anyway without the dog barking and that dog is a big dude and strong. Such a wonderful animal.

The NTCC can kiss my butt on that one also. Pets can be really, really great to have and cats can be really cool also. Nothing like a good old guard dog that will protect your family. I'd like to have one in my front yard if an NTCCer comes a knocking. That would take care of that whole problem. LOL.

Chief said...

Anonymous said...

Hopefully this country never comes to that.

Chief said...

I'm with you Bro. That would not be a good thing. If it does happen, I'm prepared. Have a good one.

Anonymous said...

Bro. Bellamy,

YOU DID NOT MISUNDERSTAND WHAT THOSE MINISTERS SAID TO YOU!! It's a shame these ministers do not have the FORTITUDE to say enough is enough and leave. Instead, out of FEAR they back down and blame the party they talked too.

Ministers and wives how can you be a hypocrite and sit there, knowing full well you don't agree with the Leadership? You see how they’ve strayed from the gospel only to fulfill and attain wealth and power. How many times have you repented in your heart, constantly thinking it must be you? Others have witnessed the same situations. The ungodly character of the Leadership toward ministers, wives and church members. Where is your integrity to stand up and do what's right? I got tired of thinking it was me that was wrong. It was not me, even when I spoke to my husband about things; he'd tell me I was wrong. He never spoke against the Leadership, in fact he would rebuke anyone who talked bad about them. I’ve seen Greg rebuke my sister, J. MacDonald, D. Stevens, and R. Denis. I don’t know if there are any others, he was not afraid to speak up for a person. There are many who talk amongst themselves about the Leadership. I know, because I've heard them speak. I was guilty of that myself it's something I'm not proud of, I grew weary of constantly trying to make excuses for these people. It's a never ending cycle with these people. After 32yrs enough is enough. The one who gets hurt in the end is the minister, they're too proud to admit wrong.

Shake the dust off your feet and go on your merry way!

Deborah



Anonymous said...

Deborah Shunk just told it like it is. She knows. She probably spent as much time around the board members as anyone in the NTCCs history. I think she knows what she is talking about. You can't keep your eyes closed forever.

Anonymous said...

M C Kelel is a Pathetic bastard, and R W Davis is piece of Sh@#t.

DS or GS said...

True Dat Baby!

Gregory

Don and Ange said...

Deborah said:

"Where is your integrity to stand up and do what's right? I got tired of thinking it was me that was wrong."

DnA said:

Awesome comment Deborah. I'm sure that there are many that had knowledge of how the Brills were treated, but they probably dismissed the red flags that were being raised and were thankful that it wasn't them. People in the borg get so used to being told that they are the ones that are wrong, that they accept being rebuked and criticized and figure that it is their lot in life as a Christian.

It would be much easier to receive correction from them if they weren't living in the lap of luxury in huge mansions while the missionaries overseas are praising God because they were able to raise enough money to buy a church pew.

I have come to the conclusion that the ntcc is built upon a bunch of good hearted people that are willing to sit back and watch the people they love get stepped on by a bunch of high minded seekers of vainglory and worldly riches.

If you all kept your money in your own church you would put these hypocritical rich rulers out of business. It's so plain to see that this is a money making enterprise that uses the gospel to tug at the heartstrings of the gullible while they get richer and richer and richer.

DnA

Chief said...

I was thinking about how I would have been received had I brought the Brills situation before any NTCC pastor, overseer or senior leader in the entire organization and here is what I came up with.

1: Brother, you are letting the devil lie to you. You need to pray through.

2: Brother, you are walking on dangerous ground when you talk about the "man of God" like that. (You get blasted the very next service).

3: Brother, I'm not listening to this. Brother Olson is the most humble man I've ever met and pastor Davis has spoke of his humility openly before the entire congregation at conference. I don't want to hear anymore false accusations like that spoke about Bro Olson ever again! (You get blasted the very next service and told where you can find the door if you don't like it).

4: Brother: Brother, Brother, pray, pray, pray. You've really given in to the lies of the devil. You haven't been praying brother and the devil is all over you. Have you been praying in tongues Brother? Let's kneel down right here right now and pray about this so you can get the victory.

5: Brother, who told you all these lies? As the pastor of this church that GOD had appointed me over, I demand that you tell me from whom you've received all these lies!!! "No pastor, I promised I wouldn't tell". Brother: get out of here and don't come back, (in front of everybody) you are not welcome here anymore. Then the pastor tells everyone in the church that you got "crossed up with the devil" and you are not welcome here anymore.

6: Pastor, what ever happened to Bro and Sis Brill? Brother, just pray for them brother, they are really in need of prayer. All I can tell you is thats what pastor Davis told me when I asked..

Chief said...

A BUNCH OF CHIPPY CHEAT SWINDLERS AND HUCKSTERS is all they are. I'm saying that to be funny but actually they are nothing but a bunch of well trained naive conn artists who speak out of habit because thats the responses they've heard their leaders give time and time again. It's all rehearsed and it's all been pounded in their heads on so many occasions that they just spew out those answers whenever a valid question is raised or a true statement is made i.e. the responses are very similar to the examples that I just gave. I can't stand the NTCC and I'm so sick and tired of hearing about the devil that it's unbelievable.

Oh I forgot the best response and its totally applicable to this thread.

7: Brother, Rev Olson loves everyone and he'd never do anything like that and here is the real truth about the situation that you spoke of. The spin tactic, the tap dance, half truths, vague answers or no answer at all.

Chief said... And number 7 is the one that gets me the most because it is insulting to my intelligence.

Chief

Don and Ange said...

Maybe that's why rdub doesn't like dogs? Dogs can smell a huckster a mile away. Rdub probably ran out of many a yard with a dog hanging by it's fangs off of his huckster butt! LOL! Now that is something I'd LOVE to see.

You could train your dog to hate wingtips and white shirts; tht woul take are of that problem too.

Maybe if the young ladies in ntcc had dogs, rdub wouldn't come knockin' on their doors, creepin' while their husbands are at work.

Anonymous said...

Davis had dogs at one point,(Wolfe and Wendy), when I lived in Washington. That piece of poop had a brother, of which I will not reveal his name, execute them because he didn't want them anymore.

Kekel received one of the pups from their litter. He named it Lion. Lion was a really cool dog, but I used to marvel as I watched Kekel chase that dog around the yard like a mad man so he could discipline him. I would watch Kekel and think to myself, this dude is crazy. It was funny though, because Lion would put the moves on Kekel making him look like an absolute idiot for even thinking about chasing him around. Speaking of that, M C Kekel is an idiot.

Vic Johanson said...

I heard RW say he "got rid" of one of those dogs because it kept running away and wouldn't be obedient to him.

That dog engaged its brain more than we did back then.

Anonymous said...

this is so true Deborah i know who you are and always admired you as a Christian.
My husband did this..he stood up to Denis by not giving into his lies something i thought would never happen and he.kicked us out!

Anonymous said...

hopcc/assembly of prayer leaves you the exact same way without friends,money..no hope and completely down..oh if people would just listen to what you all are saying they could really be set free!

Fisher said...

He did you a favor!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...

this is so true Deborah i know who you are and always admired you as a Christian.
My husband did this..he stood up to Denis by not giving into his lies something i thought would never happen and he.kicked us out!


So glad your hubby finally saw the light! I hope your both doing well since you've left.

Deborah

Anonymous said...

Vic said "I heard RW say he "got rid" of one of those dogs because it kept running away and wouldn't be obedient to him".


Vic, RW got rid of him because he is an unrighteous, cruel, human being.

Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the
wicked are cruel.

One man said "How well do you treat animals? It can be a measure of your character. A good man is merciful; he is gentle and kind; he is ruled by pity and compassion; he will not be mean or hard. But the wicked are cruel. Even their kindness is harsh, for they lack the tender, gentle spirit of the righteous, who is concerned even for animals. They will not be kind and merciful; they are like their master the devil, a liar and murderer from the beginning".

Anonymous said...

Anon said "But the wicked are cruel. Even their kindness is harsh, for they lack the tender, gentle spirit of the righteous, who is concerned even for animals. They will not be kind and merciful; they are like their master the devil, a liar and murderer from the beginning."


This is a perfect description Davis!

Anonymous said...

we're having some difficulties but that's because they took our house,our vehic le and our money but i know God is faithful and will never let the righteous be forsaken!

Anonymous said...

Well, it's conference time and Kekel made sure he had something run with. Now they can rally the troops and tell how the devil is all stirred up and how all the Davis haters are running their mouth's.

Hum! Davis haters! it's kind of ironic that all the so-called Davis haters are the ones that used be affiliated with him. At one time he called us brethren. I never read how that Jesus or Paul went around making enemies out of the brethren. Quite the contrary, they looked after the church and showed them true love...something that neither Kekel nor Davis has any idea. STINKING HYPOCRITES!!!!

Vic Johanson said...

"Vic, RW got rid of him because he is an unrighteous, cruel, human being."

Oh, I realize that. I didn't believe RW's rationale, I was just reporting it. Everything is expendable to him when its usefulness or entertainment value diminishes. It's all about what's in it for him. He's a user, sucking up the time, energy, and money of others to enhance his own comfort and wealth. Now he's old and rich through the exploitation of others, who are poorer (but wiser).

Chief said...

Anonymous wrote....

we're having some difficulties but that's because they took our house, our vehicle and our money but i know God is faithful and will never let the righteous be forsaken!

Chief said...

I understand that God is faithful and I believe that he has done some serious looking out for me, but you definitely have to be proactive.

For example, when we left the NTCC, my wife started teaching school after she first started substitute teaching. Make no mistake; that extra money has helped a lot over the years and it's not a sin for a woman to work as was discussed many times on this blog. We had to get our life and finances in order after we left the NTCC. It was also important for me to have decent jobs and I took what I could get. The military helped out as well all my benefits. Once you leave the NTCC, you have to get smart and if you do, you'll find your money will go a lot farther. You won't have some crooked, conniving, greedy, money hungry organization spending it for you on everything they can dream up because Davis the conn artist doesn't want to spend the churches escrow money.

MDR told how there were fixes that needed to be done to either the church or the serviceman's home while he was pastoring at Ft. Hood Tx. Davis got mad because Matt suggested that church money be used for the repairs. Matt went to the bank and found out that there was $279,000 in the church escrow account and Davis got pissed off saying that it was not Matt's money to spend even though one of the buildings needed repair.

So when the NTCC leadership makes those decisions not to spend the "church" money they often tell the pastors to take up additional offerings even though there may be large sums of money existing in the escrow accounts.

So the moral of the story is, don't let some church cause you to go broke cause you give too much of your money to the church. The Bible gives examples of giving to the poor and needy or the fatherless and widow but you won't find one single example where church people gave money to a church that was controlled by a millionaire because he didn't want to spend $279,000 that was just sitting in escrow.

We make stupid financial decisions when we are in the NTCC but when we get out we should start making good ones. If you lost your house, car and money, God had nothing to do with it and he is probably not going to drop money from some "money tree". You must have a job and if you are in that kind of financial condition, your wife should have a job also and if you haven't already, stop giving your money to a church. Those of us who have left the NTCC are doing fine because we stopped doing things the NTCC way which clearly wasn't God's way. Some have joind the military again and are doing quite well because of it. What none of us are doing, (that I know of) is throwing our money toward some greedy crooked church like the NTCC. If you aren't doing what you should be doing, I'm not so certain that God is just going to fix it all and that is why so many people are broke in the NTCC. They are not making good decisions and God doesn't fix it and they are broke.

Vic Johanson said...

The bible does support giving to widows. Haven't found the passage about lining the pockets of millionaires yet, though.

DS or GS said...

Chief,

Talking about money...

I don't believe in tithe anymore, but I still tithe.

Here's how. The money I used to send to the Cult, I now use for my Mother-in-Law who is the Pastor of a Church (she also owns the building). Her Son does the Pastoral duties now.

When we first got back to Idaho this year we fixed their church van (about $1,800), and we just bought Mom a fully loaded 2012 RAV4.

In the past we have done maintenance on her home, and the church (at our expense). We have invested about $25,000 dollars in Deb's parents (the work of the Lord) over the past 4 years. And we are reaping daily returns.

The $25,000 doesn't include her new fully loaded 2012 RAV4 (no interest, no money down financing...and heated leather seats).

She is also going to live with us when we get settled in our new home.

This is a much more Godly use of our hard earned money than sending it to Graham.

Graham is the only Cult Church that is not self-supporting. This is ironic, since all the other Cult Church (about 70) are required to be, or will be shut down.

We are glad we are able to do it now. And I am sure God is much more pleased since I am no longer an Infidel.

All because we left the Cult.

Gregory

DS or GS said...

Sorry Vic,

I deleted my post you commented on, edited it, and posted it below yours.

Gregory

Chief said...

Vic said...

The bible does support giving to widows. Haven't found the passage about lining the pockets of millionaires yet, though.

Chief said...

It's there Vic. Just ask RWD and Kekel. You just need to get saved and Gawd will open your eyes and give you a better understanding of the scriptures. Ok Vic, let me help you out.

Acts 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

Now Vic, how long shall ye remain unlearned? Those few verses are clear examples of everyone lining the pockets of one millionaire. Good grief Vic, you need to study.

Ok Vic, let me try again and see if I can get you to learn this time.

Rom 15:26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.

1 Cor 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

3 And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.

4 And if it be meet that I go also, they shall go with me.

5 Now I will come unto you, when I shall pass through Macedonia: for I do pass through Macedonia.

Now see Vic, you've misinterpreted those scripture if you think they have anything to do with giving to the poor or giving to "charity". They specifically deal with tithing you dummy. Here is the proof straight from the NTCC own doctrinal statement. You can find it by asking any NTCC pastor.

NTCCs doctrinal statement on "Tithe".

We recognize the scriptural duty of all people as well as ministers, to pay tithes unto the Lord. (Heb. 7:8) Tithes should be used for the support of the active ministry and for the propagation of the Gospel and the work of the Lord. It is not to be given to charity or used for other purposes. (Mal. 3:7–11; Heb. 7:2; 1 Cor. 9:7–11; 16:2)

For you to be spiritual Vic you must understand that in the Bible, where the word "poor" is written, that means "rich". Notice Vic how the NTCC leadership included 1 Cor 16:2 to justify their stance on tithing? See Vic, to understand the scriptures, you have to ignore that 1 Cor 16 was really talking about taking up an offering to give to the poor saints in Jerusalem clearly understood by cross referencing Rom 15:26 which obviously dealt with the same event. Now see Vic, you need to study to shew thyself approved unto RWD. You have to rightly divide the word of truth like the NTCC leadership Vic.

Vic is such a knot head.

Chief said...

Greg said...

Sorry Vic

Chief said...

No that was me Greg. You and Vic both had duplicate statements that were posted twice back to back. So I deleted both duplicate posts of course leaving one each. Sorry if that mixed anything up.

Chief said...

I did catch the parts you edited Greg, so I tried to leave the copy that I thought you had updated. Sorry that mixed up the order.

DS or GS said...

Chief,

I was wondering what went on with my edits.

Instead of..."I don't believe in tithe anymore, but I still tithe."

I should have written..."I know now that tithe isn't Biblical, but I still tithe."

I need to remember that for future posts.

Gregory

Anonymous said...

I attended NTCC for 13 years myself. I swore I'd never leave. I did but I NEVER left God. I left the abuse. Before you judge that first comment please know I believe there is a season for everything. If it takes NTCC to get someone to God then great but I pray they will learn a real relationship with God and not deal with what I dealt with. I married a "Licensed Minister" of NTCC. SHAME on me for believing that meant anything. There was abuse. I went to the elders as the bible says. Do you think we got help? No, I'm gone, I'm shunned. It has hurt the growth of my children spiritually BUT God is good and there is still hope. After time and much healing I am active in a great church. My new church home is big on family and marriage. If you're not right in your home, how in this world can you be right to others? Your testimony is extremely fake if you're getting abusive at home and smiling and preaching all the while in church. God forgive them is my thought but I feel they do know what they do. I still pray God forgive them. What is a cult? One base is a following of one mans leadership. They are not associated with any other organization. To them there are none worthy enough, therefore it all started with RW Davis' interpretation of what is right and everyone falls under his direction. There is no accountability though they tell you they are accountable to God. Yes we all are and they are! I am sad because people I love greatly I can't talk to any more b/c they won't allow it. THIS IS NOT of God! I don't like running into people from the church b/c I know while they smile in my face and try to act concern and try to get me to "COME BACK" as soon as they are gone from me they are talking about me and how I'm so wrong and going to hell. I know 13 years taught me that. I ask God to forgive me for the times I fell under that same belief. I just pray when people get the guidance from God to leave they don't go off bashing. Posting what you feel, learned, saw is one thing. I don't bring this with the intent to harm anyone but to say there is hope. I am praying for a few people to read. I know for a fact that a few women who go (maybe no longer but not sure as I've been gone a while) to the Graham location went to abortion clinics to terminate pregnancy b/c they slept with someone from the church and they were all seminary students and they could never let anyone know what happened. They will forever be haunted by that - I want you to know if you are the 2 ladies that did that and you are reading this, that God loves you still. He LOVES YOU. He forgives you. You need to get alone with God and find a time for healing and find a place where God wants you to attend church where you will have a truly healthy relationship with Christ and not a dictatorship.

Vic Johanson said...

I encourage all who leave not to succumb to false guilt regarding "bashing" NTCC. The false teachers and charlatans which comprise the leadership there only understand forceful treatment, and they have depended far too long on their mind control tactics haunting people after they leave and restraining them from spreading the nasty truth about NTCC.

Love your neighbor--share what you know and warn them before they're trapped like we were.

Chief said...

You'd warn you neighbor if you knew a burglar was going to break into their house wouldn't you? I would hope so. Well the NTCC leadership can do a whole lot more damage to your life than a burglar. They sell home owners insurance to cover stolen goods. They don't sell cult insurance to cover lost years and countless lost dollars and broken relationships.

Vic, you better believe I have no problem warning people to stay away from the NTCC. I call them what they are. Chippy Cheat Swindlers and Hucksters.

Anonymous said...

I pray that God forgives me also for some of the wrongs I have done in the name of being part of "the church behind the fence in Graham". Snubbing my nose at someone because they didn't look like me and claimed to be a Christian, I was wrong for that. God knows what is in my heart. I know I am forgiven.....God is love.

DS or GS said...

Here are some Burke quotes from Debs Blog:

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing...Edmund Burke.

When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle...Edmund Burke.

There is, however, a limit at which forbearance ceases to be a virtue...Edmund Burke.

Gregory

Chief said...

Good quotes Greg. Real good.

And to Anonymous,

We all did things while we were in the NTCC that we are ashamed of. Join the club. Thank God I can see through it now and help deliver others. I can tell you this. I can honestly say (right or wrong) I acted out of ignorance. My intentions were good. Doesn't make me feel much better about it though. Especially where my family is concerned. Got to move on and regroup.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Chief, and I have, but it has taken some real soul searching on my part. I have been out of the NTCC church in Graham for 15+ months, and I am still trying to pick up the pieces. PTSD after being in this church, oh yeah, it is definately a true statement, I am a woman and I think it might be just a bit worse for a woman when they leave and begin to take their life back... thanks again Chief for your efforts on this blog. It has been a true "blessing" to me that's for sure.

Anonymous said...

Yes, as a women and nearly a decade and a half there I had a very difficult time. I moved to WA from another state. I had to face having no one to talk to, no one to turn to but then again I was already feeling shunned because I wouldn't put up with the abuse from my preacher husband any more so what did I have to lose?! I went thru counseling. Another person invited me to church. Hurt, I fought going but I still had the love for God in my heart so I went. Hallelujah I'm glad I did! I have healed mentally, spiritually, emotionally. I serve GOD now. I do what God says, I serve the way God says. I love, I live, I forgive, I am free to love God the way he loves me. In all my years at NTCC I NEVER had such a relationship with God. I saw myself and so many others being what they felt was expected of them rather than having a real relationship. Once I realized I was tired of being fake and giving in to their commands I finally got the strength and courage to leave. I'll never forget I got a few phone calls from the Kekel and Kinson homes and they saw I wasn't going back. They left me alone and probably think there's no reaching that lost sinner. But I'm not lost. I am on my way to heaven hallelujah!

Vic Johanson said...

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing...Edmund Burke."

Great quote, but Burke's authorship has never been conclusively determined:

http://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/12/04/good-men-do/

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