Well let me clarify. God made a mistake according to the NTCC's teachings. RWD and his yes men would be much better off if Proverbs Chapter 31 didn't even exist and I will prove my statement with examples below.
Proverbs 31:10-27 10: Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies. 11: The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil. 12: She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life. 13: She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands.14: She is like the merchants' ships; she bringeth her food from afar. 15: She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens. 16: She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard. 17: She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms. 18: She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night. 19: She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff. 20: She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy. 21: She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet. 22: She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple. 23: Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land. 24: She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant. 25: Strength and honour are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come. 26: She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness. 27: She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness.
Now we will look at some of these scriptures and compare them to the NTCCs teachings and better yet, compare them to the NTCCs proven example.
Look at verse 11. Tell me of one NTCC husband who trusts in his wife so, that he would have no need of spoil? NTCC husbands don't allow their wives to make any "real" decisions or do anything else for that matter that actually contributes to the families monitory livelihood other than sort through coupons. NTCC wives aren't allowed make any real contributions so what would the husband be trusting in that he would have no need of spoil?
Look at verse 14. She doesn't bring anything from "afar" because her NTCC husband wouldn't hardly let her leave town without him even if we didn't have local grocery stores. NTCC husbands generally don't allow their woman to go anywhere far away without the two being together. As a couple they don't even go far away very often, other than conference. NTCC women can forget about going "afar" and certainly not to make any contribution for the needs of the family.
Verse 16. What NTCC woman buys anything other than groceries and clothing? We are not talking about Tanya Kekel. The NTCC absolutely doesn't promote women buying anything that would even remotely equate to land or property. No NTCC women are going to be allowed to buy a "field" because NTCC men are taught that the women are incapable and it is not their place to make decisions such as that. Show me one NTCC married woman who has ever been "allowed" to even suggest that a house or land be purchased for the purpose of bringing revenue to the family? Throw Proverbs 31:16 in the trash NTCC because you are definitely not using that scripture and you totally teach the contrary. You don't "trust" woman enough to buy land hence my claim that you don't advocate the use of verse 11 with the word "trust".
Verse 17. Strengtheneth her arms? How do you strengtheneth your arms whey you spend the majority of time around the house? They wouldn't need to focus so much of their attention and place nearly as much emphases on all these workout plans, and all these different diets, and all these different exercises if they just worked instead of just hanging around the house as much as the NTCC requires! It's the NTCC who puts so many restrictions on women because half of these women had careers before they entered the NTCC. I've heard it said in the NTCC that women are for cooking, cleaning and having sex. Oh did I say that? RWD couldn't possibly see women as being only good for those three uses or could he? So much for Proverbs 31.
Verse 18. "Her" merchandise? You've got to be kidding me. What merchandise do NTCC woman have? Other than Tanya Kekel NTCC women don't lay claim to much of anything. Most NTCC women don't even have their "OWN" car. My wife has her own car and she needs it to get back and forth to the school where she teaches the children. She also has a new car because my families safety is extremely important to me and many of the newer cars are "way" safer than the old ones because many have side curtain airbags, vehicle stability control, side impact door beams, crumple zones and active headrests that reduce or eliminate the chances of whiplash. My wifes new car received the highest test ratings in all categories and buddy you best believe that my families safety is of the utmost importance to me. The fact that they are far safer has been proven, and you can find the data if you read the crash test reports online published by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. My wife is not just some second class citizen in our family and she should have her own car rather than be in a position to only use mine when I'm not.
Verse 20. Give to the poor? You've got to be kidding me again. NTCC women aren't allowed to make such decisions as giving anything to the poor and incidentally the NTCC doesn't even advocate giving to the poor. They give to the rich and namely the Kekel family or have you forgot the 39acres, the fat house, the huge guitar collection, Grant's expensive education and on and on and on. The NTCC doesn't hardly give squat to the poor and if they did the "women" wouldn't have anything to do with it. Throw verse 20 out the door because according to the NTCC, God got that one totally wrong.
Verse 21. All her household clothed with scarlet? Please, they are all clothed with bargain store, value village, second hand clothing because the NTCC won't let her work and help like Proverbs 31 teaches. I've seen too many NTCC folks living way below the poverty level and doing all this cloth swapping and value village shopping. Unfortunately I know what I'm talking about. My wife and I recently bought our son and daughter the best running shoes that we could find which fit them correctly. The shoes were anything but cheap and that is only the case because we are no longer guilt tripped out of working when work is available. My wife has a bachelors degree that "was" going completely to waste while we were in the NTCC. I'm no longer interested in hearing that the only way I should ever accumulate money is to bleed my future church members after I've sent about 50% to Graham Washington or stuck it in some escrow account that I have no control over.
Verse 23. The NTCC husband certainly isn't known because of his wife because women are considered nobodies in the NTCC. What NTCC husband is known because of his wife in the NTCC? NONE!!! Women are know because of their husbands in the NTCC as long as their husband is a yes man or related to RWD, Olson or Johnson. Throw verse 23 in the trash because God got it all wrong.
VERSE 24. Here is the big one which is why I made it red and all caps. NTCC women ain't selling jack or trading with any merchants because the NTCC has taught for years that "women" can't have a job. Trading and selling and "DELIVERING" is the same as having a job the last time I checked. God you should have stopped at chapter 30. The NTCC teaches that you had it all wrong when you decided to go ahead with chapter 31. Bad God. You need to see RWD immediately and explain to him how it is that you think a woman can even be considered virtuous if she has a job like you talked about in verse 24. Respectfully, God knows.
Verse 26. Openeth her mouth with wisdom? The NTCC doesn't think so. Maybe if her name is Tanya Kekel because there aren't too many other NTCC woman who's opinion even matters or is considered. NTCC woman, go to RWD and see if he lets you teach in the school of rules along with Tanya? If he won't, see if he will let you trade, sell and deliver anything and see if he even thinks it's your place to do so? Tell him he should at least listen to your opinion because the Bible says in Proverbs 31 that a virtuous woman has wisdom. See where that gets you? What you are not a virtuous woman? Do you have no self esteem? Has the NTCC broken your will? Is Tanya considered the only virtuous women in the NTCC who can work and has wisdom? These are valid questions.
I've written some of this to show some obvious sarcasm toward the NTCC but I've written none of it as a mere joke. My statements are so true it's sickening. NTCC Women: You can either consider what I've written and do something about it, or remain a door mat for your narcissistic husbands and RWD. Either God was right with Proverbs chapter 31 and the NTCC has it totally wrong or visa verse but you can't have it both ways. I will go with Proverbs chapter 31 so women; let the selling, trading, and distributing begin and start to realize that you are worth more and meant for more than just cooking, cleaning, and having SEX. If you NTCC women believe that you were created for no other purpose than to cook, clean and have sex then just continue to get on the list to clean Mike Kekel's house and do his dirty laundry. Make sure you fold his underwear real good. I'm being so blunt in an attempt to get some folks attention, because women are throughly held back in the NTCC. NTCC women aren't even given the option of meeting Gods qualifications of what the Bible calls "virtuous". The NTCC has placed too many restrictions on their women, so throw Proverbs 31 out the door, because it doesn't apply in the NTCC.
Sincerely,
Jeff Collins
67 comments:
OMG!! I would wonder about this verse a lot.Every time we would have Sis. Davis' class, she would make reference to this verse of scripture. And I would wonder why, because everything taught in this verse, was almost the polar opposite of what we were taught, as wives. Some of the same twisting goes is also done to justify the doctrine of no pants or trousers for women. I'm so glad you brought this topic up!! Thanks, Cindy
I think this whole subject it key to NTCCs overall mistreatment of women and the family as a whole.
For some reason this subject has gotten just one response.
Well, my two cents worth is that ntcc has the most wonderful women that I have ever met. So sad that they are put down and never really given the opportunity to put their potential into the work of God.
I have seen that ntcc practically couldn't do anything without these women.
Just think about the most profitable of all recruitment that ntcc has: the servicemen's homes.
If it wasn't for these tireless women, these homes would not exist.
I got initiated in one and I can attest of the sacrifices these women have to go through.
They cook, clean, at all times they have to be "sweet" and just do what the husbands tell them to do and to top it all they have to put up with the conferences where the top chief, berates them and makes jokes about how they are so stressed up that they all make a run to the nearest walmart to buy ex-lax. Then they are put down because they have a God given desire to have a baby! I could tell you stories of the things that these women have to put up when the overseers would come.
I salute these women. Many are good leaders and if not for the husband they have, or for ntcc, they would be probably big in a secular job, or other type of endevour.
blovd
I understand that blovd. The point I was making is that there are scriptures that clearly indicate that God put women on the earth for a whole lot more than what the NTCC allows.
I have seen, or heard of, or talked to NTCC women who lost their husband and now have nothing. When I say lost I am also talking about divorce. Life is real and unfortunately some of these NTCC women have found that out the hard way. When their husband dies or leaves them and they haven't worked for 10, 15, 20 years, no one wants to hire them and the NTCC has left them out to dry. The other aspect is that even when they are together, they wouldn't struggle so much if the woman got a job because the Bible obviously doesn't prohibit that. "Keeper at home" means to be a good house keeper. I looked it up. It doesn't mean that a woman can't work like the NTCC teaches.
My wife started teaching a while after we left the NTCC and tell me what in the world is wrong with teaching children? It's a great thing to teach children and now we have more money coming in plain and simple. If I need to work I don't have to get guilt tripped just because it happens to be on a church day and I don't have to hear this bunch of trash about how I love my job more than I love God!!!
I thank God that my wife is out of that mess. She recently left for 5 days to visit her parents without me because I had to stay and work. She was on a paid vacation this time and additionally she got paid all summer long while school was out. Nothing like being off for two months and still getting paid but you can be sure that never happened while we were in the NTCC. My wife and I were told it was a sin for her to work and that is pure undefiled trash and it is not even Bible. My son has still to this day "NEVER" spent one minute in daycare. My wife teaches at his school. How do you like them apples? Man a door opened right up for her to get that job and my son rides to and from school with her. What a deal and guess what? She loves her job. She doesn't have to spend an inordinate amount of time around the house anymore and she still takes care of my son and we have a good deal of extra money coming in. If something happens to me she already has something going in addition to the huge life insurance check that she will get if I die!!!!!! That is providing for your family like the Bible says.
Providing for your family is not doing all the work yourself while still living in poverty and then if something happens to you, your wife is down for the count. God doesn't expect that. The NTCC has you women tricked because RWD is a male chauvinist. I believe that a man has his place and a woman has her place but that certainly doesn't mean that she can't work because Proverbs 31 clearly teaches that she can and that is the whole point of this thread.
You NTCC women are a whole lot more capable and lawfully able to do a whole lot more than the NTCC claims.
The reason I write about my family is to try and help folks see how much better life can be outside of the NTCC. Like I always say, my wife and I take care of "OUR" family now, not the Kekel's. There will be an ice age in Columbus Georgia before my wife will lift one finger to clean Mike Kekel's house or clean his dirty underwear. She is too busy cleaning her own in our new LG front loading washing machine. It was time for an upgrade and besides, I use our old washing machine to clean the rags that I use to clean and wax my wives new car and I'm not having some church member do it for me.
Mike Kekel abuses his folks, PERIOD!!!
I wouldn't do something like that because it is misuse and abuse of authority. You've been thoroughly tricked when you buy off on this "blessing the man of God garbage". Kekel and Tanya got folks waiting on them hand an foot. What a bunch of junk. Mike Kekel pimps his female church members while the pimpstress Tanya tells them what corner to clean in the Kekel's big house.
Jeff
blovd said...
Just think about the most profitable of all recruitment that ntcc has: the servicemen's homes.
If it wasn't for these tireless women, these homes would not exist.
Jeff said...
That is exactly right and that explains a whole lot. If the NTCC didn't erroneously teach that women can't work, then they wouldn't have virtual slaves in the servicemen's homes. I have know a sister (pastors wife) who got physically sick from too many years in the serviceman's home.
Someone has made the argument that if the NTCC was all about money, then why didn't they just let the women work and get the extra tithe money? I say because they would loose money if these women worked because they wouldn't have such a huge flow of tithe paying brothers living in the serviceman's homes. Who would take care of it? These chauvinist men certainly wouldn't. The NTCC benefits a whole lot more from having women serving as virtual slaves doing everything imaginable to include cleaning the Kekels house, the church, etc. Most big churches pay folks to clean but not the NTCC. Why would they, when they have a huge body of women with a ton of free time who are not allowed to work on a job?
That was a clearly obvious but brilliant observation blovd! You are right, a lot of these sisters are good women but that still doesn't change the fact that the NTCC is a scam. False teachings and false doctrines are still "false" no matter how you slice and dice them. The Bible does by no means teach that a woman can't work regardless of what anyone's personal feelings are. RWD has simply added to the Bible to suit his chauvinistic beliefs and as a result women and their families have been deprived of many opportunities while being forced to go through much unnecessary hardship.
Things are a whole lot more stable with my wife and I both working together than they were when I was fighting to do it all by myself. The best part is my wife loves doing it and she is a whole lot happier and as a result we have a happier home. Come on, it ain't rocket science.
The NTCC has forced folks to go through huge amounts of total unnecessary hardship and it is just that simple. Where is the sin? My wife working as a school teacher helping kids learn, or the Kekels abusing their positions while using their female church members as their own personal servants? In the Military that is called abuse and misuse of authority. Show me one time where a private's wife has been allowed to go clean the Commander's house? Show me one time where a Commander has allowed a list to be compiled of female spouses of soldiers in his company for the purpose of having the ladies on the list to come and cleaning his house? He would be relieved if he ever tried that mess. I have "NEVER EVER" heard of or seen that practice in "Any" company or organization. It is complete abuse and misuse and it is a sick abuse of power.
Jeff
I am not agreeing with what I am about to write. But I know it is the reaction ntcc cult members are thinking. They see you Jeff, talking about your wife's new car,new LG washing machine. And think your fulil of pride. Why is he spouting off about his worldly postions.
Why care. Rw flaunts his horrible ugle furniture. Makes sure all eyes are on him when he drives his gas guzzlers.
Then you have Tanya twirling her ugle Rock diamond while PRETENDING to be pray ing. I have never seen her REALLY pray. It is all for show. All of ntcc is,ALL FOR SHOW!
Anonymous said...
I am not agreeing with what I am about to write. But I know it is the reaction ntcc cult members are thinking. They see you Jeff, talking about your wife's new car,new LG washing machine. And think your fulil of pride. Why is he spouting off about his worldly postions.
Jeff said...
I totally understand that and I have thoroughly considered that as well. Without doubt the point I was making is that an old GI who works and has a wife who works also, can have a nice house, a new washing machine, a new car for his "wife", and children who have nice things and nice new running shoes that are good for their feet.
In the NTCC, Kekel is one of the relative few who lives like that and the NTCC teaches that God has blessed him. Well I could make the argument that God has bless me also but I actually see it differently. I see Mike Kekel having possessions because he is RWDs son in law; plain and simple and I don't think it has squat to do with Gods blessings.
I see myself and my family having possessions because I "work" for a living and have done it for years and my wife also teaches which brings in additional income. It's a very simple law. If you work you eat and have things and if you don't you don't have things unless someone hands it to you on a platter which is the case with Mike Kekel. He married into money because other than Kinson which is another story, I haven't seen anyone else pastor the Graham church lately.
Jeff
Then they are put down because they have a God given desire to have a baby!
That did not stop Demonshire from having a kid in the Servicemen's work!!
Now he's laying low in the Phillipines. His wife should go ahead and leave him for good this time..
I have heard RWD stand up in conferences and in church services and tell of all his financial success. I don't see the NTCC folks leave the sanctuary while saying that the man is bragging about is possessions?
There is a reason that RWD tells of those things. He makes the claim that he has riches because he has served God and consequently God has bless him with millions. Then he states that the people under the sound of his voice can also have money if they too serve God while giving their money to the Lord really the(NTCC), and as a result RWD claims that God will bless them also. However he claims that occurance won't happen if they don't give sacrificially to the NTCC as though they are giving unto the Lord. What he is doing is actually a big psychological scam that ultimately results in his organization obtaining more money while the people who are giving become more impoverished. That is more often than not the case with the quote "givers" in the NTCC.
I paint a different picture. I've showed folks that (even though I'm not a millionaire) I don't do too bad at all, and I also have nice things but there is a difference in my plan vs RWDs. I don't want to get my money off the backs of a bunch of struggling Christians like RWD does. I believe in hard work and I show that if you do faithfully work on a job, then you also can have a nice house and nice cars and not live continuously below the poverty level. I have known so so many NTCC folks who live continually below the poverty level. I also try to clearly illustrate that because of me and my wife working, we are not cursed like the NTCC claimed we would be, but rather we are more blessed with greater stability in our lives.
RWDs schedule and restrictions make it almost impossible to ever really get ahead for the average NTCC minister. Yes "some" make it but they are the exception and not the standard and the ones who do make it fleece their sheep without exception. I don't ever want to accumulate wealth because I take the last dollar from someone who trusts me and is financially struggling in the first place but they give anyway because I guilt trip them into doing it.
I had an NTCC pastor who took up two offerings during the same service. RWD would say that is great and I would say that is a crook and so is RWD for advocating such a practice. I heard RWD teach in conference that pastors need to have plenty of services so they can get plenty of money. This is what he said: "Some of you are afraid to ask your church members for money. If you are not having a full schedule of services don't call Graham because you are having financial troubles"
What he was saying is that a pastor should always rely on his church members for more money regardless of how much they are already giving and I say that is complete hogwash. I knew a brother in Atlanta that used to pick folks up for church with no current valid vehicle registration and he didn't even have gas money and the pastor would occasionally give him what I call some token change just to prevent him from running out of gas before he got the people back home. The brother shouldn't have been driving period with an expired registration and if the pastor was a "real" leader he would have known that and "never" allowed it.
How in the world is a brother supposed to have a current registration if he is broke in the first place? The pastor didn't care about that. All he cared about was having some extra warm bodies in his pews regardless of the risk. I don't know this for certain but I'll bet the brother didn't even have insurance on the car.
I would like to see the NTCC get the snot sued out of them for that kind of garbage. You are only worth as much to the RWD and his henchmen as the money that you give. Plain and simple. That is why they keep a brother around who pays tithe even if the pastor doesn't like the brother. Let the brother stop paying tithe and the pastor will quite rapidly run him off and I've seen it.
Jeff
Chief: I think that what you're posting is pretty good. Many that are trained into the ntcc mentality would catalog you as being blessed by "the devil" which I don't think you are. I remember the song they sang in the emergency phoenix conference meeting we had after the dennis split, "not for sale" I would guess that many nttcers would think that you sold out your salvation and that of your "family" for a new car and a big house and of all things, a front loader washing machine!
I know of many preachers that are barely making it, renting houses because they can't afford to buy a house, and these people are in their 50's and still are making ends meet after 20 and plus years in the ntcc! Why?
A famous quote in the bible comes to mind:
Who sinned, these preachers or the ntcc?
blovd
Jeff said:
"I knew a brother in Atlanta that used to pick folks up for church with no current valid vehicle registration..."
I am sure if that brother would have gotten in an accident or a heavy fine NTCC would have been there to help him out.
Doesn't the Bible say something about obeying the law..and "rendering to Ceasar"?
I bet they encourage tax evasion too!
Anonymous said...
Doesn't the Bible say something about obeying the law..and "rendering to Ceasar"?
I bet they encourage tax evasion too!
.....
How about child support?
I say take care of your children FIRST!!!!
Anonymous said...
How about child support?
I say take care of your children FIRST!!!!
Jeff said...
That goes without saying but what does that have to do with tax evasion or lawful need and requirement to keep your car registered? What does that have to do with this whole topic for that matter? Is there a particular NTCCer who is supposed to pay child support but doesn't? I'm just trying to understand the correlation between your statement and this topic?
Jeff
There is a reason that RWD tells of those things. He makes the claim that he has riches because he has served God and consequently God has bless him with millions.
Jeff, good point! In fact, I think RWD is DUE a JOB experience! If RWD has found grace in the sight of God, let him GIVE AWAY his millions to the impoverished layman under him. All the preachers deserved to take their wives out to Red Lobster, anyway!
Sell his home. Sell his car. Jesus even talked about "Leaving All" and following Him. Place RWD to the test. If he be a man of God, and gives ALL his worldly posessions away, surely the same God that owns the cattles on a Thousand Hills is the same God will reward him a TENFOLD in this life!!!
If he cannot part from his riches, then you KNOW it was a scam from the start!!!
Behind every successful man is an equally successful woman whom the man would not be able to do diddly squat without.
I used to work for a General. I had to stand up every time he entered my room. I had to also stand up whenever his wife entered the room. You wouldn't even DARE hold back a compliment towards her!!!
Her word was LAW!!! In fact, I was more scared of her than her husband!! If she looked at you the wrong way you knew you would be fired that same day!!!
People need the Lord. Men need Women. Tarzam need Jane!!!
If something happens to me she already has something going in addition to the huge life insurance check that she will get if I die!!!!!! That is providing for your family like the Bible says.
Jeff, you are Right On!!! My wife is an instant Millionaire too when I die, I have multiple term life insurance policys with NO WAR CLAUSE (that is the catch all to look for when you are in the Military), but hey - My wife works harder than I do, and she Deserves it!!!!
Anonymous said...
Jeff, you are Right On!!! My wife is an instant Millionaire too when I die
Jeff said...
Exactly. There was a minister in the NTCC who I think was named Espinoza? I can't remember for sure but anyway he passed away and apparently his wife was left destitute and in her middle age, she had to find work with no marketable skills. That is so sad. The NTCC ruins lives like drug abuse or alcohol abuse. Any real organization / corporation would offer some kind of benefits package for their workers. Every pastor in the NTCC should have some kind of life insurance policy through an NTCC group policy. The NTCC is a legitimate corporation right? The problem is the NTCC leadership (RWD, Olson, and Kekel) doesn't care.
RWD and Kekel are always talking business, business, business, but when it comes to offering any benefits to their workers the NTCC suddenly becomes very un-business like. Any "real" business gives benefits, but suddenly the NTCC becomes anything but a real business in that category. The only time the NTCC is a real business is when it benefits RWD, Kekel or "their" corporation, and then they yell "business" from the rooftops.
Why are so many NTCCers too blind to see that? Because the NTCC isn't a legitimate business or church at all. It is a scam and people get taken in a scam every day, and unfortunately I figured that out quite a few years too late because it cost me an awful lot of time, opportunities, and money. Thank God I'm out now and now I'm trying to help others to see the light.
Jeff
RW davis is a crooked salesmen. Who wanted out of working at a Factory. If he had a house and a nice car before ntcc. I am led to believe it was not without shaddy dealings. The man is a scoundrel,liar,and will say anything to keep his pocket lined with money!! And of course he does not have to work AT ALL for it. Sorry,driving around the country getting spoiled. IS NOT WORK! Sitting up there scouling at people,IS NOT WORK! Bashing people,telling everyone they are not saved. AS IF HE KNOWS. IS NOT WORK!
Many church organizations have very good benefits. Just to list one, the assemblies of God. They help their ministers and right now there is a shortage of ministers to go out and pastor because they won't go to a church if they feel they won't take care of them and their family. I say kudos for these ministers that will not go, if they don't feel the org. is behind them 100%.
The assemblies will help the pastors with ira's and mortgages and different things like health care, wow!
In nttc, only if you are well liked by rwd, then you will get help and advice about how to have money, otherwise, you are on your own.
Too bad for sis Esp. Hopefully she will have the strength to work till she can get her due reward for the sacrifices that she has made. Man! she practically gave nttc all her children and they have been so profitable for ntcc, it would've been nice if she would have gotten some kind of help. God will reward her some day. I wish her well.
Too bad for sis Esp. Hopefully she will have the strength to work till she can get her due reward for the sacrifices that she has made. Man! she practically gave nttc all her children and they have been so profitable for ntcc, it would've been nice if she would have gotten some kind of help. God will reward her some day. I wish her well.
I hope that she is not still going there. But if she is I guess I can't be to critical. I mean, It's like that is all that she has ever known. It's really so,so sad. I have good memories of her as well as Brother Espinoza. I was saddened to hear about the tragedy that they had in the family a few years ago.
Does anyone in the organization car
Opps....
Does anyone in the organization care??
No they don't care. All they care about is another tithe paying body warming the pew. If they cared, there would have been a corporate backed group life insurance policy as a benefit.
It was more important to RWD to transfer 39 acres of land from the NTCC to Mike and Tanya Kekel, currently valued at a estimated $373,000. It was more important to spend $20,000 are year for GK's high school education. It was more important to the Kekels to own a multi, multi thousand dollar guitar collection and a paved area for a basketball court (that we were all told was worldly). RWD's mansion was far more important than insuring that his ministers were taken car of.
If every NTCC minister had truly followed RWDs example, they would have left the NTCC to start their own church which would have been a whole lot better idea than pumping money into Graham.
Jeff
Truly it is a sad example of how "many" of the women in ntcc will be treated if or when your husband departs either by death or divorce.
I've known women that "had" to marry right away because they were left with nothing, destitute.
Like Jeff said, there are so many double standards that if one of the wives of the board members would be in this situation, I bet they would be treated differently than the regular minister's wives.
I'm glad that this blog exists.
You don't know how grateful I am for the time you put into all this Jeff.
Sometimes at night, I wonder how things are going to end for me, but I am a woman that has overcome many different things, you name it, I've been there.
Still going on!
a.p.w.
I love history. Look back in the wild West. Women went west with husbands. Husbands died along the way. Within a week she was married off again. She had to do that to survive. Very difficult to do it on her own.
Look at ntcc in TODAY's AGE! Women get married to a minister. He decides to stop living misreably,and he is not decieved anymore. So rw says ,your of a"different mind" no longer think alike,or some JARGON like that. So the women feels she has to please rw and ntcc. So she gets a divorce. And gets married to a minister that has been PICKED for her! As if she is a piece of PROPERTY! That is really what ntcc sees people that are STUCK in ntcc. PROPERTY! That is why if you are disinfranchised with ntcc and you want to leave. No problem,.toss the property aside. We got more on the "shelf" to use up!! Your not IMPORTANT to ntcc. You think,oh they love me,they care about you.
You ask for advise,you get,go and pray about it.
Your dirt poor and barely make it to conference. You get it shoved down your throat that your a loser and a poor excuse for a leader.
You can not afford nice cloths for your kids. You get,don't let your kids look dowdy,sloppy.
Your wife can't work. BUT,TANYA CAN WORK.
Wake up folks,your living under the belief your where God wants you to be. It is amazing how much God will use you once you leave ntcc!
CM
Jeff,
This is a good topic. Where in the Bible does it say that the church is a BUSINESS? Jesus is suppose to be the example and we don't see him running his ministry as a business. Quite the opposite-- he lived simple, helped the poor, healed people, on and on. He did NOT get rich off his followers. RW Davis loves to promote ntcc as a money-making business, when it should be a non-profit business with any profits going towards helping fellow ministers, church members and helping others. But what you really have is-- they are technically "non-profit" with all profits going to Davis and Kekel, and those who devote their lives to ntcc get NOTHING!! Nada. Zip!
Sis. Espinoza (who is an example of a true Christian in my book), is the poster child for everyone in ntcc who sacrifices all and gets NOTHING in return for her sacrifices. Her and her husband sacrifices many years in ntcc, and alot of their children also did the same. If ntcc really cared about her (really loved her like the Bible teaches), Davis and Kekel would gladly give her thousands of dollars to help her live WIHOUT having to work on a job. Kekel could sell his $4000 guitar (he has one) and his $5000 mandolin (he has one of those too), and give her the money. (He doesn't play them in the church anyway). Davis could easily give her money-- his house is valued at 1.1 million a few years ago. But it will NEVER happen. Why? Because Davis and Kekel are NOT true Bible Christians and do NOT follow the teachings of Jesus. How do I know? Because Jesus said, "You will know them by their fruits"-- and Davis and Kekel's fruits are greed and selfishness.
The only husband who was made anything by his wife: Is Mike Kekel!
The Declaration of Independence:
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,
IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--
Let freedom ring...
Anonymous said...
The only husband who was made anything by his wife: Is Mike Kekel!
Jeff said...
That must mean that she is the only virtuous woman in the NTCC. Proverbs 31:23. He definitely sitteth among the elders. Very good observation Anonymous.
Jeff
Anonymous wrote...
Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
Jeff said...
You give up that right in the NTCC. Forget about the pursuit of happiness or liberty for that matter. The NTCC takes away your liberty with all their sorry rules resulting in you having very little happiness.
Sitting in church 5 days a week, listing to some self righteous blow hard who turned out to be nothing more than a yes man is not happiness. Doing this while giving large portion of your money to the NTCC just to watch the Kekels get richer while you struggle is not happiness either. Finding out that Grant Kekel played basketball and football while the whole time you denied your children the same opportunity because of the NTCCs mandates is certainly not happiness. That is sadness, sorrow and disgust.
Jeff
Anonymous said...
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,"
These are not truths in the ntcc.
There is overwhelming evidence that men and women are treated differently either by birthright, talents or just plain favoritism. All whom dare not to conform to said policies or doctrine shall not be equal, furthermore one is not allowed to have an original thought or belief that is different than the powers to be unless their name is MK.
We are all men and need the Lords mercy, if you say you are without sin you deceive yourself, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, many in the ntcc are putting their salvation in the wrong hands. I think each of us have a right to pursue happiness. We are equal, don't let any man take that from you. Hey, just look at your leaders they are pursuing what they see as happiness, yet you are not allowed to.
I remember the conference where RW Davis was trying to find Devonshire a new wife, saying that Sis. Devonshire had compromised and left because she wanted a baby. I also remember after the denis split that Kekel questioned the loyalty of the Devonshires. The devonshires need to pack it up, and go and find a real life outside of NTCC.
Hello Everyone....
I was just sitting here thinking about what someone said concerning the fact that RW Davis seems to want to equate the fact that because he is rich that this is proof positive that God has blessed him.
Well, if this is absolute proof positive that God has blessed him and I want nothing to do with the blessings of God. Some of the biggest jerks in the most condescending people I have ever met in my life have been the wealthy and I want nothing, absolutely nothing to do with having any of the traits of these kinds of people. In fact, Jesus talks about how it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven. Of course we know that with God all things are possible, but I think Jesus said all this to illustrate the dangers of wealth. I believe that Jesus was literally talking about a camel, as well as the eye of a literal needle. I know that this is not the place for theological discussion so I won't elaborate. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that in many cases wealth is given as punishment to the people who forget God and in reality are nothing more than wolves in sheep's clothing who do nothing but sheer the flock day in and day out, destroy people's lives, break up marriages, and the like.
Charles Haddon Spurgeon made the comment that we all must stand before the bar of God and give an account for the things that we've done. I tremble when I think about that and I believe that there are going to be many people on that day that are going to receive quite a "Jolt" when they stand before the Creator of Heaven and Earth.
"I remember the conference where RW Davis was trying to find Devonshire a new wife, saying that Sis. Devonshire had compromised and left because she wanted a baby."
I too remember that sick and twisted conference. I remember the shock I felt about Rev. Devonshire being praised being obediant.
Good thing NTCC doesn't interfere with how anyone runs their family...
I remember that conference also. Rev. Devonshire has gotten contacts (did you ever notice that a lot of times when someone who wore glasses got contacts when their spouses let them and they were looking for a new partner?) Rev. Davis had him stand up for all the ladies to look at the told what a great catch he was, etc. Rather like selling a slave. LOL
left, not let. LOL
Jeff,
I was browsing through some religious books in a local Books a Million when it suddenly struck me -Rev Davis is SO DUMB!!!
T.D. Jakes and a handful of other pretenders are making millions off of selling "The God you Left Behind is Still There" or "Meet God Halfway for a Blessing" or "Angels around us", etc. etc.
So then the though crossed my mind: WHY DON'T NTCC print any self-help books, or inspirational books.
Can you imagine the money they would make?? Think of this: "The Apostle Davis' Journey on Planet Earth" or "I cannot Remember the Last time I Sinned - Can You?" or "The Man who Talks with God - A spiritual Journey of a man who built America's first Mega Church"
ANON!!
How about "The Kekels: A Sister's personal account of a Hell inside their Home"
How about
New Testament Christian Church....
Is it really New Testament?
Anon said...
So then the thought crossed my mind: WHY DON'T NTCC print any self-help books, or inspirational books.
Jeff said...
I understand, and that is an interesting thought, but there are a few problems. RWD has attempted to stay out of the limelight and he probably has for the most part. The split almost caused him some problems but he wound up getting past that pretty well.
The point I'm making is that RWD doesn't want any (outside) people involved with his organization which is one of the main reasons the organization qualifies as a CULT. A book would draw attention to the NTCC cult and RWD absolutely does not want that. Additionally "T.D. Jakes the Fake", (like him or not, and I don't) is popular, and that alone results in book sales. Not too many people (on the outside) know of RWD and he wants to keep it that way. It keeps the heat off the NTCC INC, and it keeps RWD out of the public eye.
That is why he stuck the camp ground out in the middle of no where. That is why the school of rules, (NTCS) in out in the middle of no where. That is why RWD has a big fence around his house.
RWD is a bonafide cult leader through and through.
Jeff.
ok, my informant told me that the Kekel's are moving, because, get this, they dont need all that space, so they are sizing down. should we not delve into this information and see what we can find as to how many sq ft the knew house is and maybe if the faucets are made from pure gold? any comments?
...they are sizing down from having one child? Give me a break!
The point I'm making is that RWD doesn't want any (outside) people involved with his organization which is one of the main reasons the organization qualifies as a CULT. A book would draw attention
Would say that is why he never pursued Denis. When he stole money from rw and ntcc. During the split. that would have caused folks to look into there bussiness. And find out a WHOLE LOT MORE!!
CM
CM (having a good understanding of the NTCC) wrote...
I Would say that is why he never pursued Denis. When he stole money from RW and NTCC. During the split. that would have caused folks to look into their business and find out a WHOLE LOT MORE!!!
Jeff replied...
BINGO. You hit the jackpot. I am certain that is exactly why. It definitely wasn't because RWD simply wanted to turn the other cheek. Denis told my wife and I that he had threatened RWD and I'm sure that RWD didn't want some kind of court battle or the unneeded attention that such a confrontation would have brought to the NTCC. I am also quite confident that is the reason that the NTCC (RWD) gave Kekel the 39 acres immediately after the split. RWD recognized that it wasn't a good idea to have the unused land in the organizations name anymore with potential legal troubles pending.
Of course some of this is speculation however it is all based upon sound logic as well as the facts that we do have. It is more then just a coincidence that the NTCC gave Kekel the 39 acres of land right after the split took place.
Jeff
So, in hindsight, and this is going on a big leap of faith, we have Dennis to thank for exposing NTCC for what it really is - a SHAM!!!
The good thing about a dirtbag is that they expose OTHER dirtbags!! Dirty Nastys, as my buddies also like to call them...
ANON!!
What is Dennis up to these days, anyway???
Anon said...
So, in hindsight, and this is going on a big leap of faith, we have Dennis to thank for exposing NTCC for what it really is - a SHAM!!!
Jeff said...
Yes we do have Denis to thank for sure, for all it is worth, and it is worth something. Having said that he is a dirt bag as you've already recognized. His organization is no different than the NTCC and he is no different than Kekel and RWD. He is just seemingly more conservative, so he says. In other words he seems to be sticking to the no TV/DVD thing. Of course the NTCC has gotten away from that and Denis voiced that as one of his biggest griefs with the NTCC.
Denis didn't like Kinson or Kekel one bit. He saw the favoritism that does in fact exist, and he didn't like it one bit. Denis was however just as much of a crook as they were, and are, and maybe even worse if that is possible.
I don't know what is going on with Denis these days. I just know I don't want anything to do with him or his crooked organization. He prays on soldiers just like the NTCC and he sees the military as a money pot just like RWD.
Jeff
Double D: I guess g.jordan won't go anywhere for a while, he was given a chair in the board.
My only guess as to why he was bestowed such a privilege he was the only one that came to rwd help in the dennis split, saying that rwd, the prophet, who talks to God directly didn't have any idea as to the doings of dennis. Jordan's take was that God blinded rwd so that everything would play out just like God wanted. Everybody was like: no way! Everybody knew something was going on with dennis and his circle of friends! Except rwd, of course.
Jordan has written 2 books now that nttc prints and are sold at the conferences. I don't remember the titles.
I guess it pays to smooch to the leader.
"Jordan has written 2 books now "that nttc prints and are sold at the conferences. I don't remember the titles."
One of them was "20th Century Pilgrim's Progress." It was a how-to manual on sucking up to NTCC leadership. I still have my copy.
Dirty Harry?? HAHAHAHAHAHA
Vic said...
It was a how-to manual on sucking up to NTCC leadership. I still have my copy.
Jeff said...
LOL. That's funny. I know a few NTCC ministers who must have memorized that book. Actually they probably helped inspire the development of the books content.
I really can't stand a suck up / cheese eater / brown nosier as we called them in the military. To be "successful" (relatively speaking) in the NTCC you have to be a cheese eater. RWD, Kekel and Olson love cheese eaters. That fact in itself is proof of their poor character.
Jeff
Man I just got thinking about this suck up business that goes on in the NTCC. God didn't even entertain the disciples attempt to suck up.
If you remember when Jesus went up to what is known as the mount of transfiguration Peter asked Jesus if Jesus wanted Peter and the disciples to build three tabernacles for Jesus, Moses and Elias.
Whats funny is that Peter was essentially trying to suck up to Jesus at that very moment look what God did. The bible says that while Peter was still speaking, a cloud overshadowed them and GOD said, "this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; here ye him".
This is what's kind of funny to me. Basically I see God as deliberately interrupting Peter (which obviously happened) and saying "OK, this is my Son Peter, enough of that sucking up business and just listen to what my Son has to say."
Now to the contrary, If you tried that with Kekel, Olson and RWD they would say, "Get to building, your not done yet?" "Oh and by the way, you can start up a list and see who will be blessed by getting to see who first can come and clean my house when you finish building it."
Let me tell you this for certain. What RWD, Olson, and Kekel allow with all this sucking up business is anything but Godly. It is totally ungodly and I have no problem saying it and I've been writing the same thing openly for almost two years "and I'm not tired yet".
Are you tired Jeff? NO, I'm not tired yet, are you tired, NO, I'm not tired yet.
Jeff
I am tired. But I feel the need to write this. as far as the brown nosing goes.
I saw folks that started in the Org. about the sametime as we did. But you would see them around rw or mk all the time. There wive's brown nosing to Tanya and Verna. As much as there measly lifestyle allowed.
But the folks that brown nosed got to be around rw more. Got invited to his house. Then out in a work. They got visited more often.
What did that cause. Jealousy and envy between the two parties. but it was all under the rug so to speak. You could not voice opposition to any of it. or else I am sure you would have been bashed for it. Called out on the carpet. So we all kept it inside of us. As for me. I hated to see brown nosers. I hated them before ntcc and STILL DO!
I was not going to be a suck up to old fogies rw and the so called perfect couple Mike and Tanya. All love to be ntcc Royal couple!! So of course we went no where in ntcc. Did not get visited while out in a work. Got ignored! But guess what folks that is your TICKET OUT OF NTCC. let them ignore you. that brainwashing fog will start to lift. You will go on ntccXposed. and these blogs. God will work on your brain. So you can finially let the two and two come together. Without trying to make excuses for what goes on in ntcc.
There tatics are wrong,unGodly,non-Christian like. All out to make money off you. IT IS NOT A CALLING OF GOD. It is,how big of an empire rw can build and now pass onto Tanya and Mike k. and then to GK!
CM
Once again; Exactly CM. We saw the same type stuff out at the churches. Of course it was totally obvious when you got to conference. What stuck out the most with me and still does is all the stories of folks cleaning the Kekels house.
That is the worst manipulation that I've ever seen in my life and it is all in an attempt to suck up to Tanya and Mike. It's utterly sickening. Mayers would brag about how he was making so much progress so fast but then it all stopped when a bunch of us left his abusive church. He had been full time but then it was reported that he had to go out and get a real job once again.
RWD and Olson came to visit his church and boy Mayers thought he was on the top of the world and his head got swollen up like a watermelon. Then mention of his church came out in the trumpet. You talk about someone head getting large. He wouldn't listen to anyone after that, (not that he did much listening before that). He regularly had confrontations with his helpers and anyone else in his church who had the backbone to stand up to him, and there was certainly a few who did.
It's a sick twisted cycle that exists in the NTCC and it's anything but holy. There is nothing "good" about it. I have never seen a more dis-functional situation than what existed in the church in Atlanta. It was all a rising, vanishing, smoke screen that very rapidly faded away. The same thing happened in Columbus.
Jeff
I've never been one to smooch, specially relating to the things of God, and this reminded me of the last time when the dennis debacle was still "hot" and we were instructed by olson of how that we should win with love.
Love of the brethren and love for the family of God and love this and love that, the more I realized that there was never any real love within the ministers. Everything revolved around who the leaders liked the most. I hated the times that the overseers would come to the church because they expected to be treated like kings and queens, instead of helping you going out soul-winning they wanted you to take them out to expensive restaurants and show them the town and run errands for them and be ever so nice, when in fact, there was very little money left over to do those things. Then these same overseers would rat on you, saying bad things about you.
So much for godly love.
blovd
Yeah, RW came and saw us in Fairbanks once. We scraped up enough to put him in a tourist hotel, but he still complained about the room. He always talks about how he's the world's worst tourist, but he sure wanted us to take him around to the local sites all right. I brought him up here to show him the lot our house now occupies; I figured he'd be thrilled that I was being blessed. Instead, he just looked at it and grunted at me with a sour expression on his face. Apparently he was disgruntled because I didn't crawl to him for advice before I did it. It made me feel guilty for years for buying this place, but now I know that if I hadn't, I'd probably have almost nothing today. At least I didn't fleece the flock to buy it.
Vic,
I think you are mistaken regarding RW's reactive grunt. I dont think a man of his character would condescend to feeling 'put out' that you did not first seek his mighty counsel. On the contrary, he was astounded that you would lack the godly wisdom and presence of mind to not put the property directly in his name... you obviously do not give this man the credit due him!
T
Tom said...
On the contrary, he was astounded that you would lack the godly wisdom and presence of mind to not put the property directly in his name...
Jeff said...
LOL.
Jeff
Vic,
You got the man all wrong! The grunt was RW's way of saying you missed out on a blessing! You could have gave the money to the church instead of buying land!
The grunt was RW's way of saying you missed out on a blessing!
Wait a minute! Pigs grunt, so that means that...Holy Toldeo! RW is a PIG!!!!!
ANON!!
george jordan & NEPOTISM:
george jordan is on the board because his wife kathy is the sister (physical blood relative) of ashmore's wife. Period.
NEPOTISM.
BitG
A NON-PROFIT ORG PROFITS FROM EXPLOITING THE UNFORTUNATE:
The booklet george jordan and his wife kathy wrote and had published in the Philippines
(slave labor print-sweat-shops)
was called the 20th Century Pilgrim's Progress by k. g. hathaway (get it?--kathy and george have a way...) I'm sure ntcc made a nice
PROFIT
off that book selling it at inflated ntcc prices (required purchase too) though it was made on the cheap (since they don't mind exploiting third world country's labourers if they can make a buck doing it). Not bad, in the eyes of a
corrupt business man
like rdub who supposedly started a
NON-PROFIT 501... tax exempt organization...
barf.
BitG
TAX EVASION LAND TRANSFERS:
It's my understanding that rdub purchased that 39 acres.
In my opinion his first transfer of that land placing it under ntcc was so rdub and vern wouldn't have to pay taxes on it.
BitG
DEVILVISION - TELEVISION:
rdub called tv the devilvision.
george jordan wrote about people sacrificing their son's and daughters on the altar of the t.v. in his
ntcc's best-seller
the 20th Century's Pilgrim's Progress.
devilvision - television
A doubleminded man is unstable in all his ways.
BitG
DOUBLE STANDARDS-MINDS:
devilvision-television
In george jordan's ntcc best-seller the 20th Century's Pilgrim's Progress t.v. was 'out'-a huge no-no. It was devilvision.
Guess grant kekel can sigh with relief that we are now in the 21st century so he can watch all the devilvision, excuse, please, television he wants without condemnation. Something other kids (and adults) in ntcc were not allowed to do.
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, to day, and forever.
But ntcc is full of double standards and shifting sand lies and doctrines of men - until the ntcc staff have kids and they don't want to abide by the b.s. rules...
BitG
...selling it at inflated ntcc prices (required purchase too) though it was made on the cheap..."
Yeah, I still have my copy, but it fell apart before I was done reading it the first time. I think they sold them for 5 bucks; I bet it only cost them pennies to get them printed over there.
I ran the press in Graham for $10/hr and printed a bylaws book and some tract of drivel about capital punishment. I even got paper donated from where I worked; I doubt altogether the entire run of either piece cost them even $100. They sold them for five bucks a pop, by the hundreds. And what kind of organization forces members to pay for a copy of their own bylaws? What a scam.
No Tell Cash Cow
Vic Johanson asked: And what kind of organization forces members to pay for a copy of their own bylaws? What a scam.
December 22, 2009 5:51 AM --
Yup. The No Tell Cash Cow does.
BitG
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