Write whatever interests you. If there is something you want to discuss, the floor is open. If you want to start a new topic, post it and I'll copy and paste it to this front page. Have a good one.In a previous thread MDR wrote...
As I pondered the other day about all of the years with NTCC, I realized that my wife and I were part of a 25-year ponzi scheme and we got burned.
I have heard RWD many times say, "I marvel at how dumb preachers are". The last time I heard that was when we went to one of those so-called conferences in the PI. There were no day services, and the women were cut loose to go shopping. All of the preachers were sitting in the hotel foyer listing to the same old diatribe of RWD. He actually said these words: "Preachers are dumb. They have bought into the idea that they can spend their money for the work of the Lord and He'll take care of them when they're old". I was sitting there thinking, Oh my God, is anybody else hearing what I'm hearing? He's talking about us!
I really think that he realized that I was affected by what he was saying because the very next day, in the hotel foyer, he undid everything he said the previous day. He said, "You brethren have sacrificed and God remembers and He will take care of you in your old age. So cast you bread upon the water", yada, yada, yada.
My thought was, yeah, he's right, we're dumb because we have followed him all of these years and what do we really have to show for it, and all the while he's become a millionaire. Yep, we were dumb, but not anymore.
I have heard RWD many times say, "I marvel at how dumb preachers are". The last time I heard that was when we went to one of those so-called conferences in the PI. There were no day services, and the women were cut loose to go shopping. All of the preachers were sitting in the hotel foyer listing to the same old diatribe of RWD. He actually said these words: "Preachers are dumb. They have bought into the idea that they can spend their money for the work of the Lord and He'll take care of them when they're old". I was sitting there thinking, Oh my God, is anybody else hearing what I'm hearing? He's talking about us!
I really think that he realized that I was affected by what he was saying because the very next day, in the hotel foyer, he undid everything he said the previous day. He said, "You brethren have sacrificed and God remembers and He will take care of you in your old age. So cast you bread upon the water", yada, yada, yada.
My thought was, yeah, he's right, we're dumb because we have followed him all of these years and what do we really have to show for it, and all the while he's become a millionaire. Yep, we were dumb, but not anymore.
38 comments:
Jeff, on the thread titled: confused and misguided, the first comment was from brother reed.
I think that that post is worthy of being in it's own thread.
It is quite the eye opener how the org. uses so much secrecy to keep people from knowing what it's going on.
It's is amazing that now I know more about the reeds and their life than when they were "in"
It is a shame how they were treated by those that supposedly loved them.
I always thought that just because he was a favorite of the A-listers,
he was treated more fairly, but now I know that it was all a mirage.
Great Idea. Too easy
Chief
once remember being ripped into over my les statement. it was found out that giving 24.00 a month to the cfc campiaign. "how can you give to a charity when you don't know where the money is giong." the charities were american red cross, focus on the family and aer.i stopped so could give more money to missions and other works. after reading these things feel like an uncharitable heel.
Chief:
The last time I was in Graham, I remember looking over the congregation and saw many there that had been saved under the reeds ministry.
Some were in the choir, others were getting ready to go pastor, some were already pastoring and others were attending the bible school.
Can you imagine how much money these converts have brought to the org? not only money but other talents as well.
Maybe the new ministers to be, should be more business savvy and will at least try to get something out of it and specify that for every convert turned in to the bible school, they should get a percentage of their tithe.
Like rwd would say, we must be good stewards with God's money.
When all is set and done, the pastors and ministers will never be good enough for the likes of rwd.
You can work and send people to graham and do this and sacrifice till you are destitute, all in the name of ntcc, and still you will be looked at as a failure and a loser.
Because if you become better than they, you've just become their competition and that is one thing that they abhor. They've just lost their control over you!
Anonymous said...
they should get a percentage of their tithe.
Chief said....
Or get all of it. That is if you can really justify the whole business of paying tithe during the dispensation of grace. The more I study the Bible, the less compelling is this notion of mandatory tithing. Greg Shunk wrote an extensive article about tithing on his blog. You can't refute the things that he wrote, (at least if you feel like being genuine and logical).
Having said that you are right. RWDs org gets a percentage of everything that comes in? Sounds like a good plan to me. Why do you think some of these crooks don't want to send anyone to the NTCS? In doing so they would be giving up their money. When you loose people, you loose money. On the same note, why do you think it is that RWD requires so many people to come back to Graham? The more people he gets back to Graham, the more money he and his leaders have direct access to. I'll guarantee it.
Chief
Anonymous said...
I once remember being ripped into over my LES statement. It was found out that giving 24.00 a month to the CFC campaign.
Chief said...
Who ever ripped you was a jerk. I'll tell you when you really didn't know where your money was going. When you gave it to the NTCC. I'll tell you a few places it went. Toward huge RV's, Grant Kekel's secular catholic college education, Grant Kekel's football program, $20,000 a year to send Grant Kekel through a private academy for 4 years in high school, a fancy gun collection for RDUB the crook, a pimp Cadillac for RDUB the crook, multiple real-estate investments for conniving Kekel the con artist and Double Standard Davis, various school field trips for Kekel the con artist's kid, every kind of toy that conniving Kekel could dream up, DVDs for Kekel's kid, a fossball ball table for Kekel the con artist's kid, a guitar collection that would rival that of Jimmy Hendrix for Kekel the con artist, a castle looking house/mansion for RDUB the Dupester, a bunch of houses that you can rent from RDUB the Dupester, (as long as you are willing to pay in cash and follow a boat load of stupid, narcissistic, controlling rules.
There, is that enough? Now you know where your money went if you gave it to the NTCC for the last 30 years. You ought to feel real good about that. If you do you are a Sucker with a capital "S". I'll also guarantee that your kids didn't have nearly the childhood or anywhere the number of toys as Conniving Kekel's kid. If they did, it's likely that you are a conniver also.
If I'm going to give to a non profit organization it's going to be used to really help people in need. Not so one kid and his dad can have every toy known to man and become rotten rich while my family struggles during a recession that's likely to never end. Face it NTCCers, you all got took like me and MDR. We've admitted it to ourselves but many of you are still living denial.
Chief
Anonymous said:
"how can you give to a charity when you don't know where the money is giong."
DnA said:
One of the things that the ntcc does to people is that they make you believe that their cause is God's cause. Having been in the ntcc from AIT to the end of my military career, I never gave to one charity the entire time I was in the service. Giving to CFC or Red Cross or any other LEGITIMATE organization was always frowned upon. There was one time that I was the only soldier in the entire Battalion that didn't contribute to the red cross. My chain of command was pissed off to put it mildly.
We were a chosen generation and our money was already spent before we touched it. The thing about it was that we used to do stuff like this of our own accord. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not saying that we would of done this stuff if we were not in the ntcc, but much what we did or didn't do came from what we learned from the behavior of others. When you think that you are a part of the only move of God on earth than you also think that every other cause is futile. Futile: incapable of producing any useful result; pointless. This principle applied to much of what we did in the ntcc. The preacher never got in my face and told me not to give to CFC, but when he said, "your money is not your money, it's God's", he implied that giving to other causes was pointless. There were times that they would come right out and say things but a lot of what we did was learned behavior and that was what they wanted.
They used this same technique to get us to do all kinds of things. We went about trying to establish our own righteousness because we learned this behavior. Many times, what we seen spoke louder than what we heard. I was never told that I had to wear white shirts and wing tips but you just knew, if you didn't than you would be excluded from the club.
DnA
Anonymous said:
"how can you give to a charity when you don't know where the money is giong."
DnA said:
Right, and how is giving to the ntcc any different? You don't know where your money is going in the ntcc. You put more of your trust in an ntcc pastor than you would put in anyone on this planet. You blindly think, my pastor loves me and everything he tells me is the truth. I know my money is being used for the work of God.
Meanwhile, in Graham, checks are being written to for causes you couldn't possibly imagine. "Hi Dad, It's Grant. My girlfriend and I would like to take summer vacation so we can go fornicate on the beach, could you send us a "grand" or two?" Don't get all sanctimonious and think that this sort of thing doesn't happen. After all, you are paying for his college education and he has been openly declared a sinner. What do sinners do on their spring vacations when they have parents and grand parents with unlimited resources compliments of a bunch of suckers like us that don't care where their hard earned money goes?
DnA
What do people do during spring vacation? Live it up and generally sex is included. I doubt that Grant is being a Monk and his girl friend is probably not a Nun either. It's not the end of the world but I'm not going to contribute to it. I have enough bills and financial obligations of my own without being involved in funding Grant's spring break or a trip back to Washington to visit the family. That's just me but I know that a lot of people have no problem making their family go without while generously supporting people like the Kekels. Not my problem, it's their money not mine. There is a sucker born every day.
I've thought over the years about all the money that I put into the Real Estate Holdings Company (NTCC)and how it could have been better spent.
I have to admit though, that I have less, much less to complain about than people who spent 10,15,20 years plus there and who finally do come to their senses and leave and in the process of leaving feel like they were discarded in the end like little more than feces down the toilet. I spent maybe (at the most) 4 years in the organization.
Right now I would like to believe that the organization is on the decline, Due to Blogsites like this one, as well as others. However, the royalty is wealthy beyond what most of us will ever imagine. There is plenty of money in the Davis and Kekel household to go around, and Grant can go to the finest schools if he wants to. All I can figure is that with people leaving, and the numbers declining worldwide, and church's being combined they will continue trying to create an illusion that they are being prospered. People who belong to the organization will continue to be squeezed for more and more money, Sermons will be preached about Hell, Fire and Brimstone, and about the necessity of supporting the "Work of God".
I apologize. I know I've rambled on this. But on another day I'm going to say something about Rodger Wilson Davis that I've been thinking about for some time now. Everybody have a nice day. Mark
Someone from the Philippines has been visiting this blog. I wonder who?
When we realize that the NTCC cripples us from a meaningful relationship with God, the healing can begin. I'm a sinner that needs God's grace everyday... The devil loves to twist the word of God. Right?
Anonymous said:
"That's just me but I know that a lot of people have no problem making their family go without while generously supporting people like the Kekels."
DnA said:
"That's the whole point, there. People will be people and they are going to do all sorts of things. The ntcc claims to be a holiness organization and they look down on anyone else that doesn't bow down to their leadership. They say and do not. They don't have any problem laying guilt trips on people to give more money to whatever cause comes up. But don't you dare question them. God help you if you ask them where the money goes. They will either lie to you or they will blast you for involving yourself in affairs that you are not supposed to be concerned with.
I talked to a friend on line the other day that told me his feelings on the ntcc. If you are a Christian for more than a few years in the ntcc you will eventually have to cross a line to stay with them. He said, " No real friendships and marital loves, because they interfere with cult loyalty and especially with keeping all your eyes, ears, mind, and decisions on the great leader".
It's so true. Those of you ntcc'rs that stop by to look at this blog, you know that this is true. You can't claim Christ as your savior and not love your fellow human being. When you watch families being torn apart, (and you will see it, if you stay in the ntcc for a few years), and you sit by and do nothing, don't call yourself a "holiness Christian". When you are given a choice between loyalty to your "pastor" and doing the right thing in the eyes of God, you too will be expected to cross that line. If you divorce your wife and marry another to show loyalty to the ntcc, you are an adulterer. If you give to the ntcc to the point that you are unable to provide for your family sufficiently you are worse than an infidel. That's what the bible says. Plain and simple.
DnA
Chief said "Someone from the Philippines has been visiting this blog. I wonder who?"
Make no mistake about it that is Tom Ed Wright. He's the one who posted on a previous thread " four missionaries living in the PI, and not in poverty"
Hello everyone! We hope that you've all had a wonderful summer. We certainly have because we actually got to enjoy one!
The other day we ran into Sister Warwick at Wal-Mart, formerly known as Sis. Norton. She was quite distraught about her husband who fell asleep behind the wheel and had been in a car accident on his way to work. He is recovering from foot surgery and will be out of work an extended period of time.
She told me that she was going to ask "brother kekel" if he knew anybody who could help them get a car. I told her, why don't you go to RWD and ask him for help. You've been a loyal member for 40+ yrs. He should help you. I told her, he has enough money to buy you a dealership, let alone one car. Her reply was, Pastor is out of town right now. I then told her go to "brother kekel". He's got enough money to buy you three cars. I said come on, you've proved your loyalty. You've been faithful for all these years. Someone should help you, and with no strings attached.
Well, word has it that Pa Kinson made a "pastoral visit" and Sister Warwick asked him if she would get in trouble for asking other churches for financial help in her time of need. And word has it that Pa Kinson's reply was, "Of course, you can do that. That's what they're there for"
Another compassionate moment on display by NTCC.
Enjoy the rest of your summer, peoples.
mdr
Someone said...
Make no mistake about it that is Tom Ed Wright.
Chief said...
That is a good possibility. Of course I can't say for sure but I'd say it's quite likely. Either way, I'm glad someones reading it. Blogs like this wear off on people after a while and RWD and Kekel knows it. That is why he tries to keep people away from it. It's hard to ignore the truth forever.
Chief
Chief said... It's hard to ignore the truth forever.
God will make sure of that!
LTravis
MDR said,
"Another compassionate moment on display by NTCC."
DnA said:
Can you expect anything else from the ntcc? They got money but it's not allocated to help some peon that's been in the org for 4 decades. I'm sure they don't have any kind of short or long term disability.
The best thing that brother and sister Warwick could do is to leave the ntcc and start attending the church that she is planning to ask for help. The ntcc are nothing more than a bunch of hirelings. rwd and kekel and the whole bunch don't care for the sheep. They care about themselves. Period. They aren't going to fork out any money. They won't even take up an offering because they don't want money that could go in their wallets to go to someone else's cause. They don't love anyone but themselves. They don't have a clue what charity is all about.
DnA
Tom Ed Wright,
Can you see the writing on the wall? Call me my number hasn't changed...
LTravis
MDR said....
She told me that she was going to ask "brother kekel" if he knew anybody who could help them get a car.
Jeff said...
That is sick. Someone who has been with the NTCC for all those years is for all intensive purposes broke? So much for the notion of being blessed as a part of that organization. By all outward appearances the woman is anything but blessed. So I guess they only had one car that apparently couldn't be replaced as a result of the accident? So you dedicate decades of your life to the NTCC and this is what you have to look forward to?
Thank God I got out. I don't like to say this but Sis Warwick "AND" her husband are the reason that they can't afford a car. They are both at fault. They shouldn't need a handout from "ANY" church. If I got in an accident tomorrow, my wife has her own car, PERIOD and MOST married couples in the real world have two or more cars! If my wife wrecks her car, insurance will replace it because I have full coverage and I bought her the car brand new. I'm not bragging. It's called taking care of my family with the help of my wife. The NTCC is not going to do it. If my car gets wrecked we have a third car. I didn't let the NTCC drive me into poverty even though they certainly tried. They tried to get me to quit a job. So much for that plan cause I didn't do it and guess what? Now I'm blessed!!!!
The way to help isn't going around to churches looking for a hand out. A woman who wants to help her husband will get a job just like the woman had in Proverbs 31. It's not a sin people. Anyone care to debate me on this one? You better find a different verse other than, "keepers at home". That means to be a good house keeper. It doesn't mean you can't have a job women. You've let a male chauvinist pig namely "RWD" lead you astray and now you think going to churches and church members looking for a hand out is the answer?
Here is the sick part. I briefly considered getting in touch with some exers and taking up an offering to help this Sister. Guess what I've concluded? She would likely pay the NTCC tithe on our gift and I'd rather give my money to a billionaire bank-robber than see one more penny of my money go toward the crooked NTCC.
I kid you not. That would be like giving your money to a crack fiend drug addict. If you give your money to an addict who needs his or her fix, you know what it's going to be spent on. If you give your money to the NTCC, it just goes to make guys like Kekel richer while people like Sis Warwick are looking for help at the same time. I'm not contributing one more penny to the NTCC greedy cause and if you give money to an NTCCer you might as well be giving it to Mike, Tanya or G. Kekel.
Buying an NTCCer a car in that kind of situation is like trying to put a Band-Aid on a open sucking chest wound. That is not fixing the problem, it's just prolonging it. Going out to find a job and leaving the NTCC would be the best way to fix that problem. If something happens to me, my wife is a teacher so at least there is some money coming in while I try to recover. Not only that by the grace of God, I spent enough time in the military to be entitled to a retirement which would also help in such a situation.
This may sound cold hearted but I don't think other churches should help out in this situation. Kekel or Davis should help out and the Sister should still leave the NTCC knowing good and well they are the reason that she is in this predicament in the first place. Going to other churches is just using people and using other churches. They shouldn't give the woman a dime.
Chief
MDR said...
Another compassionate moment on display by NTCC.
LTravis said...
This is what religion looks like folks...it's so sad...
There was a Sister in the Columbus GA NTCC church when I was still a part of it. She was broke and she really needed money. Oberhauser's wife took this lady around to other churches looking for handouts. Is that sick or what? You have RWD the dupester and Conniving Kekel who are both loaded with cash and you are deceitfully making it out as though your church is broke and can't even help out one of their own church members? That is just like stealing. If I was the leader of another church knowing what I know about the NTCC, I would chew that pastors wife out when she brought one of her church members to my church looking for a hand out.
I'd tell that pastor's wife and that pastor to call their church headquarters and ask RWD the millionaire to come off some of his cash. Then I'd tell that pastor and his wife not to waste their time taking that girl around to any other churches. The reason being is because I was getting ready to call every church in a fifty mile radius and warn them that a conniving so called "Christian" woman might be showing up looking for a hand out when she couldn't even get her sorry husband to call up her own church headquarters to ask her own millionaire church leadership for money!!!!!!!!!!
The NTCC is one sorry organization that promotes that their own church members go around to other churches looking for handouts. That is sick, sorry, and sad and more accurately quite disgraceful. You NTCCers who read this blog and read MDR's statement should be ashamed of yourselves and the church you are a part of. It's because of people like Sister Warwick that this blog is even still going. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink, and if the children of Israel feel like staying in Egypt, their is only so much we can do. A hand out ain't the answer.
Hopefully this is an eyeopener for Sister Warwick and every other NTCCer who reads this blog. Stop giving your money to the NTCC and you can avoid finding yourself in the situation that Sis Warwick is in.
Chief
Chief wrote, "So much for the notion of being blessed as a part of that organization."
The Warwicks are at an advanced age, at least by my estimation. At this stage of their lives, they should be enjoying retirement.
I hope this sparks some help from the ntcc. Now that would be a sign of real change.
Like I wrote on the other thread. That wouldn't be real change. That would be covering their back.
I watched a show the other day on church leaders who take advantage of their people specifically for the purpose of getting their money. The one church leader admitted that is what he was doing and man did he have a lot of money coming in. His big trick was revivals. One of their tactics was to give out money every now and then just so the church members would feel good about giving money. That was the only reason the church leadership gave out money. It kept the money coming. Here is the concept. Pay out a LITTLE to get a LOT!!! It's a good trade off.
That is how you make your people feel good about giving. Help out the Warwicks and then brag about it and just wait for Sister Warwick tell everyone how great the NTCC leadership was when she was in dire need. I'll buy her a car if her husband promises to give me 10% of his income and offerings 4 times a week!!!! Who do you think will get the best end of that deal. Y'all suckers need to wake up. This preacher on this show prayed to God and thanked God for filling the world with so many suckers. That is basically what RWD said when you read the cover to this thread.
Chief
What do you think RWD was doing in conference when he told of how he gave money to Greg Shunk when his appendix burst. I was told that RWD didn't give nearly the amount that he spoke of in conference. RWD talked about that event right around the time that he was taking up the offering for so called "world missions". It's just a big trick and some people like Kinson, Kekel and RWD have a heart for it. They don't mind taking advantage of people. They sleep well at night.
Then after the took up the offerings for "world missions" RWD to how much money "HE" gave and he went over a list of how much everyone else gave also. Why do you think he did that? In an attempt to not only get people to give more but to let people know that everyone else gave so the people who didn't would give also. RWD is a tricky one and his tactics work.
Chief
The funny thing about this show is that a Sheriff actually came into the church and told the entire congregation about how this pastor was a convicted felon and con artist and these people still stayed with this crooked preacher. It's like leading lambs to the slaughter. Good grief there are a lot of suckers in this world. If the NTCC doesn't get them another church will.
Chief
"how can you give to a charity when you don't know where the money is giong."
Yeah, that sounds real familiar. When I got involved with the org, their guilt tactics prompted me to kick a kid I was sponsoring through Christian Childrens' Fund to the curb so I could give that measly 10 bucks a month to "God's last move on earth."
If NTCC is God's last move on earth, then divine omnipotence has certainly waned in these last days.
Yeah Jeff,
People who were at that conference (I couldn't go, as I was convalescing)told me Pastor Davis told everyone from the pulpit (he often shares how much he gives) that he gave me $28,000.
Gregory
If NTCC is God's last move on earth, then divine omnipotence has certainly waned in these last days.
I'll go a step further and say that "Gods last move on earth" certainly isn't very strategic in it's strike in the sense that the people that they attract seem to be most predominately Military, and the lower income, as well as the poor. When Jesus was on this Earth he talked with every kind of person from the very rich, to the poor.
I think what will eventually happen with this "Sister Warwick" is this...
NTCC will eventually help the family. Perhaps not the Church organization per se, But many of the people who are there who don't really have the money, or the resources themselves and have everything that they can do to keep a roof over their head and food on the table. If the Church does have to step in (and from what I've read her husband is going to be out for an extended amount of time) they will do just enough to keep them there, depending upon their value to the organization. I doubt very seriously that there will be an "overabundance" or that when this gentleman is able to go back to work that everything will be paid to current. I understand that this woman is probably "reaping what she has sown" in the sense that he has followed R'Dub since "Back in the day", But I hope that she gets the help that she and her husband need, and I'm not going to sit here and say that I don't feel sympathy for the both of them. I understand the argument from both ends but I hope that this will set the wheels in motion in both of their minds.
"If the Church does have to step in..."
The publicity here is materially contributing to that possibility. They don't lift a finger unless it benefits them in some way, and in this case, the benefit will be that they won't look like the chiselers and ripoff artists that they really are. They hate exposure.
Vic wrote...
the benefit will be that they won't look like the chiselers and ripoff artists that they really are. They hate exposure.
Jeff said...
Ain't that the truth. That is exactly why RDUB hates the Internet. It's my understanding that if RDUB could get rid of one thing it would be the internet, and I was told that yesterday. Apparently RWD said something to that effect. Supposedly RWD said that the Pelfrey's blog did more damage to the NTCC than the split. He hates being exposed to be the crook he is.
Cha Cha Cha Chief
My guess is that this blog is putting a beating on his crooked organization also.
Chief
Chief, I appreciate the opportunity to get some licks in, and I hope the things shared here will influence people away from these pernicious vipers and their corrupt organization.
Vic Said....
I appreciate the opportunity to get some licks in
Chief said...
I'm sure there are some people who are a whole lot better off because you did put some licks in. The truth is hard to ignore for long.
Chief
"Grace loves and extends mercy to people covered with religious manure because it too is a sin for which Jesus died in order to extend us GRACE!"
God saved me from the ntcc because religion covers us in manure. The sickest part of the ntcc is the idolatry.
Jeremiah 17:5-6
Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.
6For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited.
"Supposedly RWD said that the Pelfrey's blog did more damage to the NTCC than the split. He hates being exposed to be the crook he is."
I didn't like Tracy, But I will admit that there was a certain "Magic" to her Blogsite. I don't exactly know what made it that way. Apparently R'Dub that enough about it to make that comment about it. I used to enjoy their podcasts that they put out. I wish there was some way to get a hold of the information that was on there to be able to access it.
Why was it so effective. Perhaps it was just the timing of everything that was going down at that particular moment. I don't know.
"Apparently R'Dub that enough about it to make that comment about it"
That was suppose to be "Thought". I should have proof read a little closer.
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