For those of you who don't know, some years back the New Testament Christian Church Incorporated gifted 39 acres of land to Mike and Tanya Kekel, which as of 2008 was valued at $373,000. If you are interested in the seeing a copy of the warranty deed, it can be found by clicking here.
Last night I talked to a gentleman from Graham who told me that RWD held a meeting some years back with ministers and seminary students. At the meeting RWD addressed the land deal and he told the people in the audience that he could spend his money however he wanted to include giving his daughter and son-in-law 39 acres of land. Strangely, RWD closed the meeting by telling everyone that they would die and go to hell if they didn't pay their tithe! Boy old RWCross is one seriously warped, rich individual. Being both rich and warped is a bad combination. Anyway, the gentleman who I talked to, felt that the New Testament Christian Church lost a lot of people because of the land deal. That is good news for those of us who were involved in posting that information. I know of 4 people for certain who left the NTCC because of the land deal and I'm sure there were a lot more.
The real ethical problem surrounding the land deal was that the land (prior to being gifted to the Kekels) was New Testament Christian Church property. Notice I said "gifted" because that is how it was phrased on the warranty deed, (that it was given as a gift). Since when do CHURCHES give property gifts valued at over $300,000 to the founders daughter and son-in-law? It's my understanding that the Kekel's have since given it back to the New Testament Christian Church, but I don't know that for certain and even if they did, that would put it right back in Davis' hands to do whatever he wanted with it just like he proved he could do in the past. Whether or not they gave it back really doesn't matter because the whole ordeal was crooked in the first place and it's proof to how RWD and the New Testament Christian Church operates.
So what is the moral of the story? Unless you want to go to hell, you better pay your tithe so the New Testament Christian Church can give it away to the likes of Mike and Tanya. That way, they'll have plenty of money to put their son through a real college (which happens to be catholic) and I don't care if he has a scholarship. So does my daughter and it still costs us plenty of money and my daughter isn't even driving a car in college like I suspect Grant is even though I could be wrong. Automobile insurance for someone under 25 is REAL expensive. So when you pay your tithe, just know you are helping out Grant a lot. Just learn to forget about your own children because in the grand scheme of things in the NTCC, your children don't matter; only Grant does. If you think otherwise you're an idiot.
So what is the moral of the story? Unless you want to go to hell, you better pay your tithe so the New Testament Christian Church can give it away to the likes of Mike and Tanya. That way, they'll have plenty of money to put their son through a real college (which happens to be catholic) and I don't care if he has a scholarship. So does my daughter and it still costs us plenty of money and my daughter isn't even driving a car in college like I suspect Grant is even though I could be wrong. Automobile insurance for someone under 25 is REAL expensive. So when you pay your tithe, just know you are helping out Grant a lot. Just learn to forget about your own children because in the grand scheme of things in the NTCC, your children don't matter; only Grant does. If you think otherwise you're an idiot.
If you are in the New Testament Christian Church, you are really getting taken to the cleaners, used and played like a sucker. R.W. Davis, Olson, Kekel and all the rest of them can take a long walk off a short pier. They would do more for humanity to be fed to the sharks. That way, the sharks might not be so hungry so as to attack innocent swimmers. RWD, Kekel and Olson are all sharks so that fate would be fitting.
Chief
245 comments:
1 – 200 of 245 Newer› Newest»Here are two more documents about the land gift (3 witnesses total):
http://epip.co.pierce.wa.us/cfapps/atr/epip/taxvalue.cfm?parcel=0418114000
http://www.slideshare.net/dsorgs/kekels-land-gift
Gregory
Chief said,
"Since when do CHURCHES give property gifts valued at over $300,000 to the founders daughter and son-in-law?"
We say, right. Since when does a non-profit get away with giving property valued at over $300,000 to the founder's daughter and son-in-law for their "private benefit". That is illegal, folks.
It's called private inurement, and the fact that the property was given back after they were outed is proof that they knew it was wrong. They were caught this time, but it makes one wonder how many similar transactions have gone unnoticed. These scum have enriched themselves on the backs of poor saints, but they have no shame. I believe my contributions alone were in excess of $50K.
Crooks and grifters, scoundrels and charlatans--that's what we see when we look at the NTCC "leadership." They belong in jail with Bernie Madoff.
Oh, and I suppose the palatial new home the Kekels moved into over 2 years ago is also a GIFT. It is right next to Davis's home, I have not been in it but apparently it is bigger than the one that was just down the street and outside of the fence in Graham. Of course, this was just before Grant went off to college, so they needed a bigger better home to downsize into? In Graham, there is all these little small white houses that really look all the same, except maybe a few, they are mostly two bedroom homes, rented to ministers and their families. Then you have these two palatial homes side by side. The difference is remarkable when you see it. 3000 square foot homes and then a many homes that are no more than 600 square feet. I wish you all could see what this really looks like. All inside a very large fence. Go figure.
It's a plantation system, with the "Big House(s)" surrounded by the slave quarters.
I am sure they would not be arrogant enough to gift this new home to the Kekels. However, did they really need a bigger nicer new home? I know that the Davis's are getting older but really was it necessary? Why don't they live in one of the rentals, Oh I know, it would not be big enough to house their clothes. Sorry for the sarcasm, but this stuff annoys me to no end.
Here's the link to that Pierce County address DS or GS posted:
Taxes / Values of Parcel 0418114000 - The 39 Acre Property
When you open this page, you will see that Pierce County records the name of the tax payer for this property as being New Testament Christian Churches of America.
But didn't olson claim a private party paid the taxes on the property? Why would that be?
Why would the non-profit give the land to kekel?
Why would kekel claim that he gave it back to ntcc? In a fairly recent smog-blog post, kekel claimed that Pierce County made them do it LOL!! Wahahaha...
kekel and davis got caught and now they are trying to blame Pierce County! That's like saying, "The devil made me do it." LAME!
Anonymous said...
The difference is remarkable when you see it. 3000 square foot homes and then a many homes that are no more than 600 square feet.
Chief said...
I understand your point my friend but I suspect that RWCross's home is much larger than 3000 sq ft. Your point was well taken. When Gregory posted the property tax info did you see how much taxes were paid on the property? About $4000 dollars per year. So being that the land was gifted to the Kekel's in 2004 and it's now 2012 then you multiply 8 years x approx $4000 per year and you have another $32,000 of tithe payer's money hard at work.
Can't you NTCC people understand this? All the effort and hard earned money that you folks put into the NTCC goes into the Kekel's maintaining their excessive lifestyle. It's a family business people and it ain't about souls. It's about the advancement of the Kekel's financially endeavors and the advancement of the their son's personal and academic endeavors.
Holy guacamole Batman!!! Don't you folks realize that there is more to life than financing Kekel's personal endeavors for accumulating wealth and property? Don't you care about your own families as much as you care about the Davis and Kekel families? Don't you care about your own children as much as you care about the Kekel's son? Well if you say you do but you keep giving your hard earned money to the NTCC you are deceived.
The Kekels will not get another dime of my money. I'm putting my own daughter through college. I help fund my own wife's shopping sprees. I'm certainly not funding Mrs. Kekel's shopping sprees. You all might just as well throw you money right in the trash. If you think giving your money to the NTCC is an acceptable sacrifice, you are blind as a bat; holy moly Batman. God doesn't expect you to tithe crooks!!! Anyone can call themselves a pastor; a bank robber, rapist, burglar. Would you tithe one of them dudes? So why are you tithing the crooks in the NTCC? You are worried about going to hell if you don't tithe them? You might go to hell because you do tithe them and you know they are crooks. Do you thing God is going to accept your excuses when he knows you've read this blog and the information on this blog is proof that the NTCC leadership is crooked?
Please, just think about it people and take those blinders off. The proof is right here. The NTCC sits on a bunch of land so sucker NTCCers can pay the property taxes. Kekel don't have a job so where else do you think the money is coming from? Hey? Hey? You call running around enforcing rules and running your mouth having a job?
Chief
Sure it's a job Chief. All you have to do is go to a non accredited seminary, let them call you pastor and that would entitle you collect tithes and all you would have to do is run your mouth and give orders. That is what christianity is all about, didn't you know Chief? All christians pay tithe and give in the offering. As long as you do that, you are going to heaven. God is easy to be bought, you didn't know? Just ask Roger Davis and Mike Kekel.
Yea Chief, I have no idea of the exact square footage of Davis and Kekels houses that sit side by side, and I am not going to do the research to find out, all I know is that we did finance their excessive lifestyle and of that I am sure. No more...
Wow, Grant Kekel's St. Louis Billikens are in the NCAA basketball tournament and they are currently playing Michigan State as I write this message. Boy I hope Michigan State swamps them Billikens. A Billiken is a good luck doll. Maybe the Billiken will bring GK good luck? NTCC tithe payers certainly have. Where would you rather place your trust? In a Billiken or NTCC tither payers? I'll take the tithe payers every time, just ask Kekel. They can be trusted to pay his property taxes, I'll tell you that.
Go Michigan State!!! Destroy those bad luck Billikens. Oh no, I'm sure to be cursed now. I talked bad about the Kekel's Billikens. Chances are better that I get cursed cause I've talked about a Billiken than talking about con artist Kekel and old RWCross.
Cha Chiefster.
I noticed Grant Kekel is not on the roster. I guess he didn't go to St. Louis U to play basketball. It's 33-26 with 16 min left in the 2nd half. Go Michigan State!!!!
Michigan state is leading by the way. I guess since Grant is not on the team, he must be studying to become a cult leader. Does St. Louis U offer Narcissist 101?
Before reading this, get your waders on and a really big shovel. Copied and pasted from Kekels smog blog-
NOVEMBER 10, 2011
R.W. Davis donates 40-acres
The New Testament Christian Seminary Campus just got bigger! Today, R. W. Davis, founder of New Testament Christian Churches of America, Inc., donated a 40-acre parcel of land for the expansion of the New Testament Christian Seminary Campus in Graham, WA.
Title was conveyed to New Testament Christian Churches of America, Inc. this morning and, with the help of Leroy Surveyors and Engineers,
the project has received final approval from the Graham Advisory Commission and the Pierce Country Hearings Examiner.
In the 1990’s the land was listed for sale by a company called Herbrand-McGowan Timber, but only after they harvested and sold the timber. Apparently, that was their reason for buying it. Though unsure what the future needs of NTCS would be, Pastor seized the opportunity to purchase it and, though he retained personal ownership, titled it to NTCCA. He has since personally paid all related expenses of development including applicable taxes and fees, labor and materials.
In addition, when attempting to acquire permits to build on properties adjoining the 40 acres, Pierce County demanded that the title first be transferred out of NTCCA’s name. In light of these circumstances, Pastor decided to retain ownership and financial responsibility for the land, and placed it in my name, even though it technically remained his. Legal counsel advised that, even if the land had been a gift to me, I had fulfilled any tax liability resulting from the change of title.
Can you say damage control?
Chief said..."When Gregory posted the property tax info did you see how much taxes were paid on the property? About $4000 dollars per year. So being that the land was gifted to the Kekel's in 2004 and it's now 2012 then you multiply 8 years x approx $4000 per year and you have another $32,000 of tithe payer's money hard at work."
What about all of the work that Gesang Enterprises (PO Box 1028, Graham, WA 98338) did to include environmental studies, surveys, blueprints, permits, etc.?
Latest Permit Denied
Eventhough the permit was denied, it still had Kekel listed as the owner with the organization PO Box as his mailing address. You can't separate them from the org and whether its in RWD-bag's, MCK's or NTCC's name, they still have control of it and can make the decision to sell it or make a profit from it. Prior to alot of this coming out it was going to be subdivided into 8 parcels and who knows if by now it could have been sold off for little 4-5 acre lots or developed like what they did with the Bonco compound.
For you tax attorneys that are going to be used by Washington Attorney General to grill NTCC -
Federal Tax - Private Inurement Principles and Examples
Land Gift Example
and for those of you who dont know
check out the articles bruce smith has written about ntcc.
Here is one of them
Following the Money - NTCC
Shady operations. I would wonder though, what would Kekel do with 39 acres. Another interesting fact, you may not be aware of, along the orting kapowsin highway on the way to the main gate of the church, an elderly man had a very large lot, with his home and then side by side he had a lot of property. Well, guess who built rather large stately homes on either side of this mans house. There was a minister and his wife living in one house and then on the other side, Kinson lives. These are nice homes. I wonder who owns these two homes? This mans little house is still in between the two much larger homes. I am suspecting that this elderly man was asked by the NTCC would he be interested in selling off some of his land? Just a fact you all might not be aware of...
Kekel said:
" In light of these circumstances, Pastor decided to retain ownership and financial responsibility for the land, and placed it in my name, even though it technically remained his. Legal counsel advised that, even if the land had been a gift to me, I had fulfilled any tax liability resulting from the change of title."
The deed that has been shared by GS, shows this land was given to the Kekels by the New Testament Christian Churches of America, Inc. and Not "Pastor" (Davis). There is also an excise tax document floating around out there that shows that because this land was a gift to the Kekels there was no tax due for the transaction. A total of two dollars changed hands. It looks like to me that Kekel can't even get his own lies straight. How does one, (RWD), retain ownership and financial responsibility for the land, when you place it in someone else's (M. and T. Kekel's) name? And how does it technically remain RDW's when according to the deed the property was given to the Kekel's by New Testament Christian Churches of America, Inc, a non-profit organization?
"Legal counsel had advised", Who is that Ashmore? Kekel must think that everyone in the ntcc is a complete and total fool. This stuff is public record and if you are in the ntcc and you are reading this, Kekel has played you for a fool. I guess Kekel is going to have to remove his explanation from his damage control blog before someone calls him on his lies. Of course, Kekel, I'm sure Chief would allow you to come on to this blog and explain yourself. But that would require you to be transparent, which, obviously is something that you are not capable of. After all you and God don't have to prove anything to anyone, do you?
DnA
One thing I mentioned quite a few times in the past was that the land was gifted to the Kekels immediately after the split. I've maintained all along that there was probably a correlation between the two events i.e. the land deal and the split. I think Davis wanted to get the land out of the organization's name to protect the land against a lawsuit. If a lawsuit was filled against corporation, property could only be seized that belongs to the corporation. Giving it to Kekel would protect the property. Denis told me that he threatened RWD with legal action around the time of the split and even though I could very well be wrong, it just seems too coincidental that the land was gifted right after the split.
Not only that, the written explanation that Olson gave would have somewhat validated my hypothesis. Olson basically said that the land was no longer needed by the org. I could see that as being the case especially being that the NTCC had just lost so many people during the split and they probably felt that the land was no longer needed for expansion. Keeping the land in the orgs name at that point would be more of a liability than an asset. Just speculation but it makes a lot of sense to me.
Which ever the case, the NTCC leadership is crooked.
Chief
Yep, I left because of this. Of you bring a toaster into a dorm it becomes dorm property. But you can donate 40 acres and retain ownership? Hyporites! Not to mention criminal and unethical. Olson explained this away as ntcc not needing the property thats why its was gifted away. So, if the gift was temporary to skirt legal limitations for development as kekel suggests, olson lied in his letter. This much shady dealing is not worthy of my support financially or my time, not to mention the sacrificing of my future.
Eric
I was in that meeting and your rat is not telling the story right. Pastor purchased the land with his money, but had the land titled in the NTCC name, in case it was needed for the advancement of the Org. So, since it was his land, he could do with it what he pleased, for it was not NTCC's land to start with, only by paper work. Also there was no falling out of others because of that deal.
Also people were allowed to ask any questions they pleased. It was a VERY OPEN meeting. AND some did ask questions and they were given answers to the place that it was made VERY CLEAR about that land deal.
You are right about one thing, if you are a christian and you do not pay tithe, you are a robber and heaven will not be your home. While you disagree with this, does not change truth.
You can attack, that is ok, I will not be around to reply for a L O N G time
Anon said "You are right about one thing, if you are a christian and you do not pay tithe, you are a robber and heaven will not be your home. While you disagree with this, does not change truth.
You can attack, that is ok, I will not be around to reply for a L O N G time"
What an idiot. Can you say "KOOKINESS?"
"You can attack, that is ok, I will not be around to reply for a L O N G time "
RB?
Anonymous said:
"Also people were allowed to ask any questions they pleased. It was a VERY OPEN meeting. AND some did ask questions and they were given answers to the place that it was made VERY CLEAR about that land deal."
DnA said:
People are allowed to ask questions now in the ntcc? Why should someone in the ntcc have to be allowed to ask questions? Is it a sin to ask a question? Are people not allowed to ask questions when answers to those questions might place the ntcc leadership in a place where they have to lie or twist the truth? The ntcc is a cult, plain and simple.
Anonymous said:
"Pastor purchased the land with his money, but had the land titled in the NTCC name, in case it was needed for the advancement of the Org. So, since it was his land, he could do with it what he pleased, for it was not NTCC's land to start with, only by paper work."
DnA said:
What planet are you guys living on? Who buys land, puts it in the name of a non-profit organization, and then has the non-profit organization gift it to their son in law and daughter? Sounds like a shady operation to me.
Anonymous said:
"You are right about one thing, if you are a christian and you do not pay tithe, you are a robber and heaven will not be your home. While you disagree with this, does not change truth."
DnA said:
This comment is unworthy of a response other than that which was left by MDR:
"What an idiot. Can you say "KOOKINESS?"
Anonymous said:
"RB?"
DnA said:
"I can't say for sure but I don't think RB is thinking much about this blog right now. I think the guy has enough on his plate and personally, I wouldn't go there. But that's just me.
Anonymous said..."Pastor purchased the land with his money, but had the land titled in the NTCC name, in case it was needed for the advancement of the Org. So, since it was his land, he could do with it what he pleased, for it was not NTCC's land to start with, only by paper work"
I'm not going to go through Kekel's or Olson's letter but if if you think about it for 2 minutes it doesn't make sense from a real estate or corporation standpoint. First of all, where did RWD-bag get "his money" and why would anyone buy something and then title it in a different name?
Usually a corporation would title it in their name when its paid from a corporate account. You may title something in the name of an LLC to protect yourself if your a sole proprietor or individual real estate investor and want to have pass through cashflow and have some asset protection.
What we really need is for someone to go down to the Pierce County Auditor's office and get a hard copy of what has happened with that property since RWD purchased it (one person mentioned the 90's) until now. This would be a title search with a "chain of title" and you would probably need to physically go there because they only have so much online and that may be only what a Title company could get unless they can create a full property title abstract report. It's all public record, so the only expenses may be copies.
Anonymous..."Pastor purchased the land with his money, but had the land titled in the NTCC name, in case it was needed for the advancement of the Org. So, since it was his land, he could do with it what he pleased, for it was not NTCC's land to start with, only by paper work. Also there was no falling out of others because of that deal."
He seems pretty confident and he must have been in Graham in the so-called meeting that they had. It was probably about as open a meeting as their lay pastor's meetings or when he had questions he would / wouldn't answer there at Conference. I won't spend time breaking down Kekel or Olson's explanations, but there are a few things that don't add up.
First, where did RWD-bag get the money to purchase the property (in the 90's as has been said) in the first place? Next, why would a person purchase a property and put it in another organization's name. You may do this as a real estate investor and put a property in the name of an LLC for pass through cashflow from it and for some asset protection. These types of ownership versus title holder just goes to show who the real owner is that can sell, skim equity, and use these properties.
Don't forget also that NTCC is still paying him back (?) for him also putting up the $600,000 for the Bonco property and for the construction costs for the rentals around his mansion. I don't know what he could have bought 39 acres for back in the 90's but let's say $150,000. So you mean to tell me that RWD-bag put up $750-$900,000 of his own money so that NTCC could be locked into repaying him?
What really needs to happen is we need someone to go down to the Pierce County Auditor's office and ask for a hardcopy of the title history and "chain of title" for this property. This is public information and you'd probably only pay for the cost of copies and then the time to scan it and load it up on SlideShare. Another thing is if you have access to a good Title company that can do a full title abstract report that would include all previous owner / title holders, liens, purchases, etc. That would be a little more money but it would be professionally done by a title abstractor like this Example - Online Title Search
I know some people have already mentioned the size disparity when it comes to RWD-bag's and Kekel's houses but use this information to check on Google or Bing maps to see for yourself. The 3000 square feet previously mentioned is only for RWD-bag's detached garage and the main house is 5,773 square feet. His shed is as big as some people's apartments -
Kekel
22026 131st St E
Graham, WA 98338
Pierce County Info
RWD-bag
22022 131st Ave E
Graham, WA 98338
Pierce County Info
One thing that you look at RWD-bag's mansion and you see that Parcel # 0418114020 is split into 0418118004 and 0418118005. His used to be one large parcel and then he had it split off to do the new construction for Kekel's house.
"Pastor seized the opportunity to purchase it and, though he retained personal ownership, titled it to NTCCA."
Dude, you're the kind of sucker that the NTCC leadership just loves. Hasn't it occurred to you that whoever has legal title has personal ownership? Read this slowly: legal title = ownership. Why would anyone attempt to hide the fact that they "owned" land by titling it to another entity? In the first place, as soon as he transfers title, he doesn't own it anymore, and the only conceivable reason for retaining control of it despite the fact he has no legal title would be for fraudulent purposes. Wake up and quit licking the NTCC leadership's boots.
"I would wonder though, what would Kekel do with 39 acres."
I wouldn't. Applications to subdivide and develop this land were filed while it was still in Mike's name. It was going to be another "Bonco" type development, with all the rents and equity accruing to the Kekels. Just another division of the family real estate business. All these years they've hidden their cash cows by having them in the org's name; now they're trying to break them out so they can abscond clean. The NTCC leadership, starting at the very top, are sneaky, crafty, untrustworthy "shepherds" who abuse the flock and shear the sheep. This time they got caught red handed.
Anonymous said...
I was in that meeting and your rat is not telling the story right. Pastor purchased the land with his money, but had the land titled in the NTCC name.
Chief said...
That is a bunch of garbage in itself. Why even put it in the org's name? Olson said in his letter that it was placed in the org's name so the org could have first dibs on the land if the Lord so directed that the land be used for God work in the future. What, God can't see far enough in the future to make a decision in advance on how land should be used? I suppose God had to think about it for a while and weigh the pros and cons? Am I supposed be so stupid that I buy off on that ridiculous explanation? So you simply stick the land in the orgs name until which time God can figure out what to do with it hey? That's idiotic.
Olson's written explanation was the most insulting document I've ever read (literally) because it might just a well said, "if you read this document and believe it you are dummy". If it was so "straight forward" why did Olson continually refer to Davis as the quote "private party" in his written explanation? Why didn't he just write "R.W. Davis" intead of refering to him as a "private party" if he wasn't trying to hide something? If there was one document published which proved the shadiness of the land deal, it was Olson's explanation.
Chief
Somebody mentiond the property in between the houses where the mays and the kinsons live.
I remember hearing that an old couple lived there. They were not affiliated with the ntcc. They just happened to own all that land and apparently they had a deal with the org.
Couldn't tell for sure if that couple lives there anymore for the house looks kind of empty.
Sometimes there is a van outside but never seen people coming out of there.
It seemed kind of strange to have two beautiful houses built on each side.
The house to the south is more ornate than the one where the kinsons live, so maybe that house was built for one of the overseers but who knows, everything seems to be so hush hush when it comes to those kind of dealings.
You better believe those kind of dealings are hush, hush. The NTCC leadership has never wanted people to know how they spend money that comes into the org. They don't want people to stop giving so they do their best to keep people in the dark.
Chief
"I was in that meeting"
So was I.
Who would have asked the important quesions in a room full of people that worship the ground that the general board walks on?
Oh, there were questions, no doubt.
And they may open it up for questions in the end, but how many actually feel comfortable asking!!??? Especially when Kekel says that we're good folks for not having questions...or he says stuff like, we wanna get outta here, so you feel bad to ask a question. Then people line up like idiots to ask him a question...just waiting in line...
stupid!
That's Christopher Cowan (wife Gen) who's close to Rev. Kekel. Are you looking for them or Christine and Pat Cowan?
Paul was a church robber! I suppose he will not go to heaven either! 2 Cor 11:8
getting close to 200,000 views!!! I still remember when Kekel's blog and this one had about the same views....definitely not any more!!!
We ARE winning!!!
Excellent point double-D.
Paul said...
and in all things I have kept myself from being burdensome unto you, and so will I keep myself.
Chief said...
Paul didn't accept or more importantly "require" anything of the Corinthian Church. So I guess he put the entire Corinthian church in hell also in addition to himself, do you suppose? And it wasn't like Paul was just passing through as Paul spent 1 YEAR and 6 MONTHS in Corinth. Acts 18:11. So Paul spent 1 year and 6 months in Corinth and he didn't require any monetary support or otherwise from the Corinthians? Well that is what Paul said in 2 Cor 11:8 and we know he spent 1 year and 6 months because of Acts 18:11.
So knowing that, you mean to tell me that you can prove that paying tithe and supporting the "Man of God" (which Paul most certainly was) is required or you will go to hell? Please! You might just as well throw the book of Acts and 2 Corinthians right in the trash then. Paul didn't accept or require a thing from the Corinthians but do you suppose that if RWD would have been there 1 year and 6 Months he would have done the same? Not in ONE MILLION YEARS.
RWD would have done the exact opposite of Paul by saying 5 times a week, "ALL CHRISTIANS PAY TITHE AND GIVE IN THE OFFERING" and in addition, RWD would have prodded them to buy him gifts every chance he got!!!!!! Tell me I'm lying!!!! In addition to that he would have said they were all going to hell if they didn't pay him tithe because he was there preaching for ONE YEAR AND A HALF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Man I'm fired up now. Come on!!!!! Come on!!!!!! Paul was there preaching for A YEAR AND A HALF and he didn't require one dime from them folks!!!!!! The NTCC is full of crap and so are all these other greedy churches who claim you are going to hell if you don't pay your tithe to the MAN OF GAWD!!!! I suppose you guys are more of a man of God than Paul was huh???????
Dispute that one!!!!
Chief
I know what some greedy person will say...
If they weren't giving money to Paul, the Corinthian church must have been pay tithe to their full time minister.
Chief says....
Yeah right! Well you can make all the assumptions you want but the Bible doesn't say that anywhere. So I know, Paul is in hell for not teaching tithe to the Corinthian Church and every single Corinthian who was in that church at the time is right there in hell with him. So if Paul is in hell for not requiring tithes from the Corinthians, why should I believe any of the Epistles?
I know, this is really hard for some of you to even think about. You can't even bring yourself to think about my statements because they make TOO MUCH SENSE and they would make you question everything you've been taught and believed. I know, Chief is teaching heresy and he is on his way to hell.
Look, I didn't right the book of Acts or 2 Corinthians but you can't deny that Paul, who was clearly the "SENIOR MAN OF GOD" was preaching in Corinth for 1 1/2 years and he didn't require or accept squat from them dudes in Corinth. Tell me the name of just ONE, just ONE, just ONE, other Senior Pastor who you know, who teaches mandatory tithing during the dispensation of Grace, who wouldn't have required or accepted any money from a church if he spent an entire year and a half with them? You can't think of one can you? Well neither can I!!!! So either Paul sent himself and the entire Corinthian church to HELL or all these other guys are WRONG!!!! Well if Paul damned everyone to include himself, you might as well throw the entire New Testament Bible in the Garbage because your faith is useless.
Chief
I'm not trying to patronizing him, but double-D is the man. Straight and to the point. Respectfully, double-D is like an assassin. He comes in, makes the kill in short fashion, and he is gone and the funny thing is, he's always operated that way since I've know him. He is not a long winded blow-hard like me. Hey it is what it is, you've got to know yourself.
I guess it takes a long winded blow-hard like me to stick with a blog like this for that last THREE YEARS. I guess there is a place in this world for everyone, from the long winded blow-hard to the dude who go straight for the kill. Whatever, just some ridiculous philosophy from the Chiefster.
It's a racket, Chief. The money flow is strictly one way in the NTCC. Elites get rich while their marks suffer. We experienced it, and we see it still going on. That's a testament to the strength of the mind control tactics they employ. It's very difficult to overcome, but publicity about their longstanding and widespread moral and financial shenanigans is helping people see that they've been used and deceived.
We thought RW practically walked on water (an opinion informed by his own constant and exaggerated claims, and encouraged by his gang of chief enablers on the "board"), but we had no access to the information now available. The huge variety and detail chronicled here and elsewhere lend credibility to the numerous accounts of malfeasance shared. No one could make this much kooky stuff up.
People think their situations are unique, but then they come here and find out that in the NTCC, we were all getting plundered. My own experience was bad enough, but at least I didn't lose my family or go bankrupt like plenty of others who went through the grinder. We probably haven't even heard the worst.
NTCC is a bane on the earth. The sooner it disintegrates, the better, and it would be a bonus if some criminal charges were involved.
Christian tithing is the biggest scam in America! No where in the scriptures does God condenm a soul to hell for not tithing! No crops, no rain, but not hell! Christ, Paul, nor any other disciple paid a tithe! The Levite is the only person in scripture who has God given authority to collect a tithe! I do not believe that there are any Levites in America. Davis and Kekel uses the word of God to brain washed these people into believing that they will go to hell if they do not pay them ten percent of their income. True wolves!!!!!!!!!
I was in that meeting and I know for a fact,I left becuase of this low down scam, and another big time tithe payer left for this same reason, because the person felt this land gift was nothing short of illegal! Davis made the statement that the property was his, he would do with as he wanted, and it was no body's business. I do remember questions, but like usual, the questions only pacified the scumbags!
For the record, this meeting was only conducted by Davis in order to intimidate people and to keep people from questioning what was going on, because they had been exposed and the news was spreading like a wild fire through their congregation.
Chief said,
"RWD would have prodded them to buy him gifts every chance he got!!!!!!"
Yep. They'd be hitting up the Corinthians for one of them there Rolex Sun Dials!
I don't know how I could make it any clearer that this.
On one side you have Paul and on the other side you have RDUB the Dupester.
Paul...
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
RWD the Dupester...
"All" Chritains pay tithe (that's 10% of your GROSS income) and give in the offering.
Paul...
And when I was present with you, and wanted, I was chargeable to no man
RWD the Dupester...
If I'm going to visit your church, you better put me up in a nice hotel not some roach infested flee trap with nasty sheets. You always take care of the MAN OF GAWD!!!!
Paul...
and in all things I have kept myself from being burdensome unto you, and so will I keep myself.
RWD the Dupester...
Give in the offering till it hurts and you'll get a blessing from GAWD. Take care of the MAN OF GAWD and GAWD will take care of you.
Paul...
For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
RWD the Dupester...
I'm not supposed to work, I'm a man of GAWD and GAWD expects me to "work" as a full time preacher, not "work" on a stinkin job.
Paul straight from his doctrinal statement; the BIBLE...
Rom 15: But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints. For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem. (Supporting Scripture) 1 Cor 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye
RWD the Dupester straight from his own doctrinal statement...
Tithes should be used for the support of the active ministry and for the propagation of the Gospel and the work of the Lord. It is not to be given to charity or used for other purposes. (Supporting scripture) 1 Cor 16:2
Chief said...
So Paul used 1 Cor 16 to teach about taking up free will offerings and collections for charity purposes such as giving to the "POOR SAINTS" and RWD uses 1 Cor 16 to teach mandatory tithing and that it "SHOULD NOT" be used for charity or other purposes such as giving to the "POOR SAINTS".
HUGE DIFFERENCE between RWD and Paul. Day and Night. Having said all that I do know that there is a considerable body of scripture to categorically support providing for God's spokesmen. I just don't agree that means that every single soul in a church, even if it's 1000 people, have to give him 10% of there gross income so he can become a multi millionaire like RWD and live in a mansion while the church members struggle just to pay their rent. Paul never advocated that mess anywhere in the scripture and he wouldn't have accepted that himself and 2 Cor 11 is proof.
Chief
This is the single biggest accusation against ntcc because its not open to interpretation or perception. Its documented by legal papers and signed. They can try to spin it but at the end of the day the facts are there. Once they are accepted they begin to unravel all of the lies you've had to tell yourself in order to stay with ntcc as long as you have? This makes the denis split look small.
Eric
This 39 acre lot is like a bag full of money that the bank robbers keep tossing back and forth to each other, hoping that the other guy is left holding the bag when the authorities show up to arrest them all...
But really, it's like Vic Johanson said, them giving this land back and forth is like taking it out of one pocket and putting it into another.
This story all by itself should be enough to wake a person up to the crooked and lying nature of the ntcc board members. They are all complicit in this. They all sign off on these activities by keeping each other in office and unaccountable, hiding each others' sins just like they did by promoting phil kinson after his affair with the prostitute, despite davis proclaiming that would never happen. Shame shame shame. Why do good Christians continue to quench the Holy Spirit when He troubles them about the sin in the ntcc leadership? Time to leave. Time to go where the leaders practice what they preach. Where the leaders are servants like Jesus served. Or where you are the leader who ministers, following the example Jesus set forth for us to follow.
Chief said..."Rolex sundials"
Now THAT is funny!!! Almost as good as my Mickey Mouse Rolex
They do make New Rolex Sundials and Paul's Rolex Sundial though! So make sure you get 10 minister's to chip in $100 and you MIGHT be able to present it to him this next conference in the middle of nowhere.
Don and Ange..."This 39 acre lot is like a bag full of money that the bank robbers keep tossing back and forth to each other, hoping that the other guy is left holding the bag when the authorities show up to arrest them all"
They can play hot potato until everyone leaves and the FBI or State Troopers sent by the Attorney General come knocking on their door. I think between the escrows like MDR's in Killeen, this land deal, tax-free equity skimming from properties, and other non-transparent financial activities that there would be some kind of investigation that should happen. The problem may be having people come out of anonymity because of their current situation, having to testify and become involved in the legal system, and having to deal with losing former friends and family members because of publicly making an accusation.
On a different note, another Anonymous mentioned an older person with a smaller house between Kinson's house and another house. Google doesn't have an updated image but I believe this is it -
Kinson
22022 Orting Kapowsin Hwy E Graham, WA 98338
Pierce County Info
I'm beginning to think the investigators need some help from the media to get these investigations rolling.
They are limited by a certain amount of resources, but media coverage has a way of helping local offices get the backing of their district managers etc.... Nobody wants to be the one on t.v. answering the question,
"Why wasn't something done sooner about this group?"
After all, people have been complaining about the ntcc misdeeds for decades. What will it take to get a thorough investigation going? MEDIA!
Those Rolex pictures are FUNNY!!!
Is this the small house in question?
Between A Rock And A Hard Place
The street view shows a privacy fence with the gate opening onto that middle house, the two larger places somewhat visible. Just keep zooming in to see it at street level from the Orting Kapowsin Highway.
Anonymous said..."The street view shows a privacy fence with the gate opening onto that middle house, the two larger places somewhat visible. Just keep zooming in to see it at street level from the Orting Kapowsin Highway."
That's good, I had a different address just by doing a parcel search along that block of addresses in the Pierce County website. The interesting thing that we see is that parcel # 0418114011 was divided/segregated into 0418118006, 0418118007, 0418118008 so the NTCC owns the following in that immediate area:
22104 Orting Kapowsin Hwy E
22110 Orting Kapowsin Hwy E
22022 Orting Kapowsin Hwy E
If you go directly west from those houses on Orting Kapowsin Highway, you'll see that it looks like it was clear cut and it goes right into the Bonco compound area. They own all of that land in between and these parcels are just south of the 39 acres.
They even have people that live outside of the gate but are still on your way in there on 131st Ave East so just within that immediate area you have 18-20 rental houses. This doesn't include those that are around Olson or the main campus.
I remember asking rev. terry if they lived in the houses that the org rents, he looked me with big eyes and said: no, it is expensive to live there!
You had to be on a waiting list just to get to live there. I remember people rubbing it in that they were "allowed" to live in the org. houses that pastor rents or the others that have a hand in those properties.
There are many more that have properties and they rent to the church members or bible school students, gesang, was one ofthem and for sure others are too.
I remember mck kind of rebuking somebody over the pulpit about not paying the rent and mowing the lawn in one of the properties that belong to the org.(it was that land in between the properties and bonco. It was quite alot of mowing for one couple to do!)
It was kind of sad because I remember looking to where mck was looking at when he was saying all that, and I looked at men that were just staring with a defeated look.
I felt so ashamed that mck would have to use the pulpit to do this.
Who knows maybe the guy didn't have a job.
I remember thinking why wouldn't anybody around there have a christian heart to lend him a hand with the mowing on that big field!
My heart was aching that evening just thinking about it.
Can't tell you what the preaching was about but I will remember that. :(
"I remember mck kind of rebuking somebody over the pulpit about not paying the rent and mowing the lawn in one of the properties that belong to the org"
He THRIVED on REBUKING people, and using the pulpit to do so. Then preach on the LOVE of God!
"I felt so ashamed that mck would have to use the pulpit to do this."
I guess when you have a card in your pocket, that gives you the license to do that. What a Crock!!
"Can't tell you what the preaching was about but I will remember that." :(
I hear you. You didn't get fed spiritual food that you longed for but had to take part in the CONSTANT verbal abuse because someone didn't meet a certain requirement.
How about just a simple phone call or a reminder?
People are starting to wake up. There are people still in the org. that don't agree with their way of doing things and don't blame us for leaving.
Thank you God that I am no longer a part of that mess!
Yes, this is the property on Orting Kapsowsin Highway, going toward the church, Kinson and his wife live in the big house to the right, on the left of the middle house a couple was living there with their son, I heard they since separated, {go figure} and I have driven by and I have seen a motorhome in front, so someone else is living there now. I don't make a point of driving by. I do not like to be reminded. Another tidbit, I heard that Ashmore lives in Keckels old house, the one outside the gate. The older home they moved out of 2 years ago. I could have misinformation though.
This is the houses steakboy is linking through google, there is a little house in the middle where a elderly couple lived. and then the two large homes on either side. Owned by none other than NTCC as per the pierce county records.
Good grief. Does the NTCC own the whole county?
Anonymous said..."Another tidbit, I heard that Ashmore lives in Keckels old house, the one outside the gate. The older home they moved out of 2 years ago. I could have misinformation though."
This is the original house that we saw the volleyball, BBQ, foosball, and basketball court, and pictures of different ones except the Kekel's and "no fun allowed" Davis.
22515 145th Ave E
Graham, WA 98338
Kekel's Old House
He is still owner, so he could be charging Ashmore rent. I wonder how much you can rent a 4,500 square foot house with 2 1/4 acres of land for these days in Washington? No doubt the maintenance crew and any Bible school students are there to mow his lawn, wash his car and shine his shoes. This is the man that RWD-bag described as a "penny-pinching Jew", a "pill popper", and a "cheapskate" so he must finally be doing well for himself and his wife.
These guys all make me sick.
Chief
Here's the b-i-n-g image of kekel's old place, where, Ashmore now lives...
http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=rv7nm44td63f&lvl=19.41&dir=3.21&sty=b&where1=22515%20145th%20Ave%20E%2C%20Graham%2C%20WA%2098338&form=LMLTCC
You can see the basketball court, garden, fences, and so much more.
Your sacrifice and tithe dollars at work to enable their play without pay lifestyle of the self-centered and greedy:
same link click here
So I'm supposed to believe as a Christian, that I'm supposed to contribute to some con artist purchasing half a million dollar houses every time he gets sick of his old one? Is there anyone out there who really believes that's what Christianity is all about?
You know what? The sad answer is that many people believe that's what Christianity is all about. That makes me sick as a dog.
What a sucker I was to give one single penny to the NTCC.
Chief
You just made me even more sick with that image. Are you NTCC people so blind? Show me one place in the New Testament Bible where even one of the Apostles stepped out of a house that grand, just to move into another one. And all of it off the backs of a bunch of struggling church members and ministers!!! Do you really call that Christianity? REALLY? Look at the size of that house and that wasn't good enough for the Kekels. Can't you NTCC people see what you are funding?
You might just as well sign your whole check over to the Kekels. The real sad part is when you've parted with everything in this life while funding all the Kekel's endeavors just to die and go to hell anyway because you are part of a cult. It won't be Gods fault that you intentionally turned a blind eye to all of this crooked stuff.
So Christianity is all about giving your money to a dude who is only in the position he's in because his father in law is the founder of the church.
Whatever.
Chief
Yes, that appears to be Kekels old HUGE house he moved out of, and of course, it is not owned mby NTCC. But we know now, that this old house was built by Davis for his beloved daughter and son in law. I was told it was beautiful inside as well. I would love to know some information on the new house the Kekels moved into right next Davis. Someone should do some digging on that property. I guessed 3000 sf. But I have also heard that it is bigger than his old house too. Two people living in a humungous home. Can someone say sub zero and viking range, I am just guessing, but I would not be surprised. That is afterall what the rich put in their gourmet kitchens. Hmm, now you have me thinking. Yes, I am sarcastic but this stuff really bugs me...
If his new house is also in Kekels named, he has two houses in his name that daddy bought.
Just sayin.
"You can attack, that is ok, I will not be around to reply for a L O N G time"
Ok, now when I was still attending in Graham, Pastor Davis said from the pulpit "If you read that junk on the internet, you need to get saved."
Things really are changing huh!
You must be the one designated to keep them informed so they can proudly say "I don't read that junk"
Hypocrite! People are waking up in Graham!
I rejoice hearing that people leave that place.
Thanks for the link to the Bing Map. I like that Bird's Eye feature and you can use the tool in the top right to spin it around. It looks like there is a covered hot tub in the back corner on a concrete slab next to the fence. I'm not sure but that's what it looks like to me from different angles.
Anonymous, you guessed 3000, but that is for the garage of RWD-bag's place. Look at the previous links that I shared for the Pierce County Assessor-Treasurer and there is a tab for "Buildings" on that property. You'll see attached, detached garages and any additions made. His old house was about 4500 square feet and his new house is just under 4600 square feet. His old house was built in 1995 and the new one in 2007, so I guess after 12 years he needed an upgrade.
The house on 145th has a hot tub and jacuzzi.
Talking about big houses and all those extra bedrooms they have to put up people when they come to graham....not!
I remember when the sinclairs rolled in to washington.
Do you think they stayed in one of them houses that you see on the links? No, they was staying in the living room with some couple.
I remember them coming in to service and she was barely walking because she apparently has a bad back and she had been sleeping in a reclining chair!
what about the countless couples that come in and out of graham, barely scraping every cent just to make it there and do you think they offered a bed in one of them mansions? No!
You see, those couples are looked at as losers that have not put it together that is why they come back to learn how it's done.
Why would they be invited to stay in those beautiful houses.
They shouldn't be in that predicament if they had put it together, that is what they would preach.
So sad that you can't be trusted to stay in one of them houses after serving the org. for so many years!
Keckel once said over the pulpit, he made his money with stocks. I heard it with my own two ears. Yeah right. Now I know better. This was years ago when I was just an unknowing member.
I would love to see him answer this question today, hey Pastor Keckel how can you afford these two beautiful homes and all the bmw's and nice items you have? He can't deny it, he said stocks.
Well, if he invested in the market, it was just another example of Mike doing his own thing, since RW blasted the concept regularly. But I doubt it, really; stocks can never compete with of OPM (Other Peoples' Money)as a means for obtaining filthy lucre.
Anonymous said...
Kekel once said over the pulpit, he made his money with stocks.
Chief said...
It it's quite possible he did make a whole lot of money off stocks. I traded stocks for a while and I understand the market fairly well. One share of Apple in 1997 at $4.43 a share is worth $605.00 a share right now and that is not including splits and there has been two since that time at 2:1. So in actuality had you owned shares during that time, they would really be worth $2420.00 a share. So do the math. Had you bought 1000 shares of Apple at 4.43 cents a share in 1997 and held on to it to this day, currently it would be worth TEN MILLION SEVENHUNDREDTWENTY THOUSAND SIXHUNDRED SMACKEROOS. Simply multiply 1000 shares times 4.43 times 2420.
So my point being, had you invested in Apple or Microsoft back in the day, you'd be stinken, rotten, filthy rich as we speak. And that is if you only invested a measly $1000. What about the guys who invested way more? Can you spell Warren Buffet?
It's possible Kekel did get rich off of stocks but like Vic said; purchasing stocks was called "GAMBLING" and NTCC ministers taught that would put you in hell because gambling is a sin. I bought some shares of Apple when it was $180 a share. Oh it's possible to get rich off the stock market but of course your timing has to be right. Had you bought stocks during the IT boom, with any software or hardware company, you'd be rich. Intel, Microsoft, AMD, Apple, Sandisk and many others. Learn the stock market and you can get rich now. You just must have money to invest. You won't be duplicating what Apple and Microsoft did anytime soon.
Chief
The fact is, even if Mike Kekel did invest in stocks, he gambled with other peoples money and that is where your money was going when you gave it to the NTCC. When you have a whole lot of free money, you typically don't mind gambling with it, and buying technology stocks back then really wasn't a gamble. Other than an end of the world scenario, you were certainly going to get rich buying tech stocks during that time. Apple was down to about $90 dollars a share not too many years ago, like around 2008. So $1000 invested even then would now be worth over $6000 now. More millionaires have been made in the USA with the stock market than any other vehicle and that is a fact.
Chief
Wow! So many people have left NTCC recently!!! Free from bondage!!! Hallelujah!!!
Thanks chief for keeping this up and thank ur wife for putting up with us!!!!! It serves it's purpose and we are greatful
SteakBoy said, he is still the owner, so he could be charging Ashmore rent?
I am not a gambling man Steakboy, thank God, but if I was, odds would favor that the rent is paid by the NTCC faithful, and Ashmore or Kekel is not spending one red cent on any expense to maintain this property! Who in this group have ever known of Ashmore working on a job that pays enough money to live in an expensive piece of property like this? It is the same con game!
Anonymous said..."I am not a gambling man Steakboy, thank God, but if I was, odds would favor that the rent is paid by the NTCC faithful, and Ashmore or Kekel is not spending one red cent on any expense to maintain this property!"
The funny thing is that when Kekel lived there he probably wasn't paying a mortgage, but if Kekel were to charge rent it would be paid out of some obscure NTCC account directly to him as the landlord. So he is getting cashflow from a rental and living in a newer and nicer house for free.
On a different note, while it's possible to make money in stocks, RWD-bag for years touted using bonds and OPM. You'd hear tales of his learning about real estate from Lou Ricketts in St Louis and how he had a work crew. He said that he could make more money for the Bible school, so Olson sat in the office.
Kekel would have to of scraped together some money to invest from his minimum wage job and either went to a stock broker or called in trades because at the time that he seemed to have gotten rich he probably didn't even have a computer. If he did, would he spend his time daytrading? Anything is possible and while most daytraders get their shirts handed to them and Warren Buffett buys for value and the undervalued company, I don't know if I buy the "Mike got rich from stocks" story.
Of course later on you find out that he is sent to computer training and received Microsoft certifications. For the past 20 years it doesn't seem like he has been scraping by at all and in the last 10 it seems like he has even more. Anyone can have the appearance of wealth by financing, but alot of what NTCC has is debt free from having most, if not all of it paid off upfront. So my thoughts are still real estate, skimming tax free equity off of rentals, getting a portion of the tithes and offerings that come into NTCC, and having others do menial labor for him by abusing his position.
And they are sooo busy with their business and money schemes and buildings....
Meanwhile....
They are forgetting what is truly important...the people that sacrificed so much for them...
They are forgetting what they taught us...
Well, they can have their big houses and businesses and cars and clothes...
obviously that is more important to them than keeping good people.
Steakboy said:
"Kekel would have to of scraped together some money to invest from his minimum wage job and either went to a stock broker or called in trades because at the time that he seemed to have gotten rich he probably didn't even have a computer."
DnA said:
Most likely the lion share of wealth came from real estate. Real estate comprises a very large percentage of their wealth. If they were to sell off all the ntcc's assets they would probably be able to liquidate millions and millions. Unfortunately they are a non-profit organization, so they can pretty much live off the money they skim from zeroed escrows and profits from rental units. I wonder how many properties they have that are completely paid off, yet the workers unaware, pay mortgages?
A good audit would probably uncover lots of crooked dealings. The thing about it is that all the money they take in gets funneled into the pockets of ntcc's elite and filthy rich leaders. What makes me mad about this whole thing is that it take 100 people like you and me, sacrificing for years, living way below our means, to make one of these hypocrites rich.
For example, when I lived in Newport News, VA and was stationed at Ft. Eustis, VA, I was an E-6 with over 12 years in service. That's pretty good pay and if I wasn't in the ntcc, I could have afforded a nice car and a decent house. However, I was a single GI that payed mandatory tithe and offerings, had a $2,000 world mission pledge, and lived in an efficiency apartment, with a bed that folded down out of the wall because I didn't want to live in the "sinful" barracks. I spent hundreds driving back and forth to post soul winning and checking on people that didn't want to come to a dead church, and believe me, it was dead.
I probably gave somewhere close to 100k to the ntcc in 13 years and if you count all the money I spent on gas for picking up people, meals for contacts and pastors, gifts and other expenses that are never kept track of, it would be hard to say how much money I spent. I used to borrow money to give it to the ntcc. How stupid is that? Learned behavior? I heard Tieman and Hasty used to use credit cards to pay other credit card payments, because they were so strapped for cash. Isn't that a great testimony.
The ntcc leadership has a reservoir full of money that was given to them by a bunch of suckers like me, that lived way under our means according to the promise that we would be blessed. How foolish were we to not realize that we were making these people rich with our sacrifice. If you are in the ntcc you are being used and played. Your money is not helping further the gospel. Your money is buying mansions, for lazy, non-working religious hypocrites that don't go soul winning, or do anything that closely resembles work. They sit around on their butts, soaking up all of your sacrifices and spend their time shopping for expensive cars, furniture for their mansions, Jewelry (Diamond cluster pinky rings and rolex watches), Gun collections, knive collections, $400 Alpaca scarfs, Dresses and hundreds of shoes. Meanwhile back at the servicemen's home and the bible school, members are being blasted for being poor stewards and told that they will never have anything because they are wasteful for buying anything for themselves. How stupid were we to believe in this bunch of crooks and con artists?
DnA
DnA said...
If they were to sell off all the ntcc's assets they would probably be able to liquidate millions and millions.
Chief said...
For all it's worth, I think millions and millions is an extreme understatement. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the between personal and corporate property, the NTCC (Davis and Kekel) are worth a half Billion dollars. I'm talking all the churches all the houses all the land? The NTCC has a lot of assets.
Chief
When Dub-head used to come around the Servicemen's homes, he was about the laziest example of an oxygen thief that I can ever remember. He was like a big sponge, that never contributed anything, but sat around on his butt the whole time during his visit. He wouldn't pray or go soul winning. If he wanted something from a store, he would send someone else after it. Make sure you bring a receipt so all of his pennies could be accounted for. He wouldn't even teach, many times. He would just sit there and stare. During prayer meetings, if he showed up, he would just sit there in a chair on his butt and stare.
The silence was often very awkward as all of us that would gather around Dub-head in the living room in awe and wonder, waiting for the great prophet to share one morsel of wisdom, but many times, he wouldn't say a thing. What a waste of time. We weren't worthy of one story.
All they do is for their own benefit. They soak up everything that is profitable for them at any expense, with no reservation who they hurt or who they offend. What a racket.
Wanted: Lazy people. Make millions and have people wait on you hand and foot. Don't pay taxes for the rest of your life. Become a church leader. Use God's plan of salvation to lure people in. Promise them everlasting riches and eternal life. Tell them that if they pay their tithe and give in offerings that God will open the windows of heaven and bless them abundantly. Use their money deceitfully for your own selfish lusts and desires. If they are not giving enough, call them God robbers. Manipulate folks by twisting scriptures to make them think they are lucky to be your servant. Make them think that you and God are on the same level, but they need to sacrifice to get where you are. Convince them that they are in the only church that is going to heaven and that if they leave, they will spend eternity in the lake of fire. Make sure they understand that leaving your church is equal to leaving God. If they catch on to your scam, openly humiliate them in public and make up some lies about them so you can discredit anything they might say that is damaging to your financial empire. When you have used them for everything they are worth, kick them to the curb. Get rid of them. Don't become attached to anyone, because you might have to kick them in the stomach a bunch of times while they are down. Make sure if they leave that they think it's their own fault so they can spend the rest of their lives emotionally scarred, thinking that they betrayed God. Follow these simple rules and in 15 to 20 years, if you are willing to trample over others to get to the top, you will have it made.
DnA
Chief said...
For all it's worth, I think millions and millions is an extreme understatement.
DnA said:
Yeah, I was definitely being conservative, not wanting to blow anything out of proportion. If they were to sell everything and pay off all the mortgages, you are probably right in estimating hundreds of millions. My next book is going to be "How to Become a Multimillionaire in a Few Years".
DnA said...
The ntcc leadership has a reservoir full of money that was given to them by a bunch of suckers like me, that lived way under our means according to the promise that we would be blessed. How foolish were we to not realize that we were making these people rich with our sacrifice. If you are in the ntcc you are being used and played. Your money is not helping further the gospel. Your money is buying mansions, for lazy, non-working religious hypocrites that don't go soul winning, or do anything that closely resembles work. They sit around on their butts, soaking up all of your sacrifices and spend their time shopping for expensive cars, furniture for their mansions, Jewelry (Diamond cluster pinky rings and rolex watches), Gun collections, knive collections, $400 Alpaca scarfs, Dresses and hundreds of shoes. Meanwhile back at the servicemen's home and the bible school, members are being blasted for being poor stewards and told that they will never have anything because they are wasteful for buying anything for themselves. How stupid were we to believe in this bunch of crooks and con artists?
Chief said...
There you have it. That pretty much sums it up about as good as it can get. How stupid we were. I sacrificed so the Kekel's could move out of one 5000+ sq ft house and into another. I sacrificed so Grant could attend a $20,000 a year highschool and a Catholic college and be called a Billiken which is a dog gone good luck doll. I sacrificed so RWD could be gifted Rolexes, knives, Guns, cuckoo Clocks, I believe a Cadillac, live in mansions, get tired of expensive furniture just to buy new stuff and the list goes on and on an on. Anyone and everyone who thinks that is what Christianity is all about it a completely STUPID idiot. I hope no one goes to hell to include Davis and Kekel so therefor Davis and Kekel better hope the Bible is wrong because I can't think of too many people on this earth who according to Biblical standards would be found by God to be more dispicable than Davis and Kekel. Those guys couldn't teach me one single solitary thing about being saved because according to the Bible, they are anything but!!! If y'all NTCCers are really living life with the intent of making it to heaven, you better wake up really quick because according to the Bible you can be decieved into hell just as quick as willfully sinning your way into hell.
Chief
"Kekel would have to of scraped together some money to invest from his minimum wage job..."
Mike wasn't rich back in our dorm days, but he did significantly better than minimum wage. He worked at a machine shop, and I think he made $7-8/hr. That was pretty good money back then in St. Louis; I was making $4-5. But he never was able to put it together to buy a car until after he graduated, when he bought Mike Marshall's old beast. He didn't really have any money then.
RW used to preach then that the sisters would be stupid to consider a guy who didn't even have a car (which was probably the majority at that time; it was just another way to demoralize them), but of course we all know that Rear Wheel's standards are quite selectively applied. He didn't seem to mind Mike groping Tanya, even if he didn't meet that criterion of leadership.
So the land deal that was given to the kekels is the land where the davises house,kekels and bonco?
Anybody noticed on that seal:
Chicago Title Insurance
has placed this document of record as a "customer courtesy"
and accepts no liability for the accuracy or validity of document.
It is on the documents that greg downloaded.
All this reminded me of something that they would always dish out to us in their preachings.
We are in the world but not of the world.
We don't want to look like the world or look to the world for approval.....etc. on and on.
But then they would say: "if that sinner bunch can have good things and drive nice cars why can't the people of God."
So then they are contradicting themselves, because they had been preaching that we didn't want to be like the world because they want to have and they do have and live like the rich people they so despise and condemn.
What happened to being humble and living in a nice home. why do they want more and more.
I remember Tanya in a class was going on and on about the stain that her husband had spilled on her oriental rug. She said it had been ruined and the stain wouldn't come out.
Then come out dad keener and said: "well at least you have a nice oriental rug, nobody around here does." tanya just smiled with a smile that said: shut up keener!
"okay class, time to begin"
Anonymous said,
"Anybody noticed on that seal:
Chicago Title Insurance
has placed this document of record as a "customer courtesy"
and accepts no liability for the accuracy or validity of document."
So does that mean its a phony document and the kekel's still own the property that was given to them illegally by ntcc a nonprofit? It wouldn't surprise me if ntcc or kekel slipped some bribe money to the title company to have them falsify a document, with a disclaimer, just to make it look like the church owns the property. What a bunch of snakes, thieves, and liars. Truly vipers and hypocrites!
Pierce County shows the individual parcels as having the taxpayer, New Testament Christian Church.
Why segregate one parcel that one corporation, NTCC pays taxes on into 3 parcels?
Pierce County shows the individual parcels as having the taxpayer, New Testament Christian Church.
Why segregate one parcel that one corporation, NTCC pays taxes on into 3 parcels?
web address showing the division of old parcel 0418114011 into
---->
Children
0418118006 , 0418118007 , 0418118008
http://epip.co.pierce.wa.us/cfapps/Atr/ePIP/segs.cfm?id=15538
Link below showing the division:
click here
Seems like NTCC is trying to hide something by doing this.
So they don't even pay for a title company to do the paper work, because in that seal it says that it is a "customer courtesy"
In other words it was done as a favor.Maybe they have a person that works for that title co. or they know somebody in that title co., that is why they had to put that "accepts no liability to the accuracy of the document"
Wow, it just get weirder and weirder!
Everything is shady with the NTCC and the NTCC is ALWAYS looking to get something for FREE. Maybe the best way to describe the NTCC leadership is a bunch of "shysters".
chief,
I remember how we used to think that we were doing a great service when we would go soul-winning and with all these things that have come to light there's an empty feeling in my heart.
It seems to me that the org is about money and not souls because if it was about souls the overseers and all of them would do the things that we all do. Go out and try to bring the gospel to the lost and not just wanting to make a buck to have more and more riches! More bigger houses!
I remember volunteering at the chldren's church and the rooms were nice and they had nice stuff but all of sudden I saw something that kind of made me wonder.
I went to each room and it was just so sad that the rooms were nice and neat,clean and had many decorations, what I noticed was the condition of the furniture.
The chairs and the desks were old looking and ratty. Like they went to a thrift shop and bought a bunch of chairs and desks.
Some of the chairs were wooden and others were plastic.
They were all mismatched!
Such an opulent church and the kids seating in these old chairs!
I feel sorry for the people that still think the ntcc is about God and souls because if it was, where are their fruits?
Why do pastors have to have 2 jobs just to live in a room in a church with no proper facilities there in Guam like reed said.
That couple have been around for over 20 years, I think, and this is what they have!
How much more wealth and fineries do you need to have to make you feel satistfied and make you feel that you have been blessed by God?
I think it's funny how Kekel preaches that the phone goes both ways...
and he probably said that because someone accused him of not calling...
but, then why did I call, and never got a call from him? I thought it goes both ways? Guess that's only to suit him.
And Olson, always so, so busy. Maybe he can use some "practical theology" and delegate some of his work so that people aren't put on the back-burner.
I would love to hear Tanya explain why she wears such tight clothes, and why her hair is so short, and why it looks like she wears makeup, and why she wears "costly array"...those Misook's are not cheap u know...google it. Just for a skirt ur lookin at about 500 buckaroos. Add in the top and the shell that goes under...
But then they say we are complaining and jealous and "hey, if she's got it, she's got it"...
Does she stand in the mirror like we were taught and ask the Holy Ghost what he thinks about what she wears? It wouldn't be such a big deal to me if they didn't preach it over the pulpit and make someone feel guilty for wearing something snug or even pants...yet she is guilty of the same.
Anonymous said...
The chairs and the desks were old looking and ratty.
Chief said...
You wouldn't find ratty chairs and desks in Kekel's house. Not in a million years. You wouldn't find them in RWD's house either. With the NTCC it's not about the kids or the church members or the majority of ministers. It's about the overseers, Kekel, Kinson and family. They are always going to live good and they could care less how anyone else lives as long as the money keeps rolling in. They could care less if a minister has to live in the street as long as they have a mansion to live in. They could care less if you have money for food, as long as Tanya Kekel has the nicest furniture, clothing and house. In the NTCC, it's all about certain families and no one else.
Chief
What I don't understand is we all know when our clothing no longer fits, when my clothes don't fit me any more, I buy a bigger size. She has lots of money why not buy bigger clothes. She is getting up there just like the rest of us. Weight comes on, buy a bigger size or lose the weight, thats what we all have to do. Am I right ladies. But of course, 500.00 fir a skirt or dress is really excessive. How do you all know what designer she wears?
I wonder what people would think about Davis purchasing a worthless piece on property in Tacoma, WA. from Elliot Gesang for $200,000.00 after Gesang allowed the property to go into foreclosure.
I heard it straight from the mouth of Kekel after he was taken off guard by the question, why is NTCC purchasing property in Tacoma? Oh, Kekel said, "Pastor Davis bought that property to bail Gesang out of a bad investment, and that Davis used his own money!
It appears to me the property is in the name of NTCC and that NTCC are the taxpayers of the property, so evidently NTCC money and Davis money is the same money. Could that be what Davis and Kekel mean when they say, Davis paid for it with his own money?
How can these moneygrabbers get away without disclosing any financial information and dealings of the NTCC? Everybody knows that the light bill and the electric bill has to be paid!
The NTCC are real estate magnets and not true men of God, but fleece God's people for their own greed and profit. These Big time PIMPS have invested millions of dollars in lands and buildings, but how many dollars have they invested in the people that they taken hundred and millions of dollars from on a weekly basis?
I was apart of that so called church for over 15 years and donated thousands of dollars in tithes and offerings, and never received as much as a birthday card from these greedy moneygrabbers!
Davis, Kekel, Gesang, and Olson are the core of this evil empire that uses the word of God to manipulate, deceive, exploit, and brainwash people who sincerely desire to live and serve the true God!
In my opinion Davis and his co-horts are in the same league as Creflo Dollar, Benny Hinn, and that bunch of so called prosperity preachers! The only difference is that in Davis's congregation the only people who prosper is him and his band of thieves!
I know because many of the ladies tried to find the same brand to wear, but since it was so expensive, we'd rummage through thrift stores just to find the name "misook" or try to find them on eBay. When u go to conference, do u ever notice all the wives wearing the same thing Tanya does? Well, only those that were able to afford it...or find it elsewhere. In my years of rummaging, I only found two tops, and since that's all she wears, day in and day out, u can't tell me it was from rummaging. U think she'd go to a "kook" store as they call it? Or maybe all of her outfits were given to her? Yeah right.
Look up misook online. Go to Nordstrom or Dillard's and check it out...the price tags!!! OMG!!!!!
How accomodating for gesang to be helped out of a bad investment.
I remember how he rented properties to people around in graham, and there was this couple that rented a house who knows where but she was saying that they didn't have pavement around the house, it was just dirt all around, then her kids would get all dirty and muddy because you know the weather is always wet and rainy, so she had to deal with it.
Of course she was a nice lady and would tell him about it when was he going to put some type of gravel or something but he never had time.
Probably this other property is gonna be rented to some unsuspecting victim and the real estate business will keep on been lucrative for all of them.
Yes I remember the "misook" look.
Everybody would be looking for that label in the thrift shops.
I think tk bought hers by sisters that would look for her on e-bay or from the outlets in phoenix.
Its all about having "connections" with the right people, and the beat goes on......................
Anonymous said...
In my opinion Davis and his co-horts are in the same league as Creflo Dollar, Benny Hinn, and that bunch of so called prosperity preachers!
Chief said...
The NTCC leaders are worse for certain. At least Creflo Dollar doesn't try to keep his people down while placing them in situations where they can never get ahead. The NTCC leadership is way worse then Creflo Dollar or Eddie Long or all the rest of them crooks.
Chief
Anonymous said:
"I wonder what people would think about Davis purchasing a worthless piece on property in Tacoma, WA. from Elliot Gesang for $200,000.00 after Gesang allowed the property to go into foreclosure."
DnA said:
I have no problem believing this and we don't know a fraction of the sleazy deals that RWD and his conniving band of thieves are involved in. This sounds like something Davis would do. In order to get the rock bottom price out of Gezang, he waits until the property goes into foreclosure and low balls him. In the state of desperation of foreclosure, Gezang probably allowed RWD to swoop in and buy it for pennies on the dollar. RWD has come to save the day again. He loved Gezang so much he bailed him out of his self induced predicament. After all it's for a good cause and souls will benefit from the purchase of this land.
All you tithe payers out there: This is your tithe dollars at work. Davis purchased it with his own money. Yeah right. Davis's money is the ntcc's money. A bottomless slush fund that he and Kekel can tap for every purpose under the sun. Every dime he has is a result of him brow beating some gullible naive GI's that actually believed him. Pay your tithe and give in offerings, you'll be blessed. Meanwhile, back in Graham, your hard earned tithe dollars are really being put to work and souls are being reached. The ntcc is dwindling down to a few bewildered R-dub wanna be ministers that are still living in projects and store front buildings sending everything they can to kekel-dub enterprises. Their greasy fingers are counting your money, and it's earmarked for a new BMW, a new wardrobe, a new chunk of property in Tacoma, or one of the many unnecessary luxury items that allow them to live like a king, while you say, "Yes sir, yes sir, three bags full." Your obsequious, butt-kissing attitude is taken for granted as they laugh at you all the way to the bank. Yet you keep marching to the beat of their drum.
DnA
Anonymous said..."I wonder what people would think about Davis purchasing a worthless piece on property in Tacoma, WA. from Elliot Gesang for $200,000.00 after Gesang allowed the property to go into foreclosure."
I was wondering if you could confirm this address but I'm thinking that this may be it - Gesang Rental 2 or Gesang Rental 1
The reason why I think its the Gesang Rental 2 is because he filed a Deed of Trust as making NTCC the benificiary and trustee for a sum of $200000. You can go to the Pierce County Auditor Search and use instrument # 200704021179 for the document. He also has an Excise Tax Affidavit as instrument # 4158420.
Anonymous said..."So does that mean its a phony document and the kekel's still own the property that was given to them illegally by ntcc a nonprofit? It wouldn't surprise me if ntcc or kekel slipped some bribe money to the title company to have them falsify a document, with a disclaimer, just to make it look like the church owns the property."
So we've recently spoken about the 39 acres, Kekel's new and old houses, Kinson's house and the houses around it, and how all of this land and property runs together. In the past the land for RWD's mansion and the rental houses around it was bought from Jack Bono and the Bonco Development corporation.
You can go back and look at the excise tax for these and see that this was a $600,000 purchase and after developing they have increased the value to nearly 8 times that amount. Kekel's house was built in 2007 and is owned by NTCC while his old house is still in his name and most likely being rented to Ashmore.
One of the things that you can find regarding the 39 acres is that on 11/10/2011 that there were documents recording Kekel as giving back the property to NTCC and the reason was a "rescission of Quit Claim Deed". When did God become so indecisive? Kekel made it sound like it had been gifted by NTCC to him, so there was a Quit Claim deed to him priced as a gift and then one made back to him with just the filing fees to pay for ownership. This is similiar to gifting a car to someone so you don't have to pay sales tax to the government while you pay them cash under the table. These types of transfers can affect the property taxes and also cloud the chain of ownership on the title.
Nullify Quit Claim Deed
If they used Chicago Title Insurance Company, they probably went to the following office -
5605 112th St E
Suite 900
Puyallup,WA,98373
Phone: 253-435-4572
Chicago Title Website - Puyallup
Most likely it was done as a courtesy just like a bank can notarize documents for you. The thing is that they can tranfer it all day long from individual to corporation but we know who actually owns it and all it takes is the permits, surveys and studies to develop it or being an owner within the corporation to be able to sell it.
The problem is, Christians often possess zero common sense and here is the reason why. We flush our common sense down the toilet when we take what a lot of these preachers say as gospel and at face value. To put it plainly, we'd put too much faith and trust into someone who turned out to be a crook and we got burned.
I won't happen again with me. If you still trust R.W. Davis and Mike Kekel after you've read this blog, you are a straight up idiot.
Chief
And to think that in a conference they were talking about how they didn't want to purchase a church in texas because they said they wanted too much for it. I think it was around 80 thousand, and here they are giving away 200 thousand to help somebody out of a bind because they were foolish enough to get into that mess.
I would think that if it was about the love of souls and the gospel that money should have been given to buy the church instead of buying a worthless piece of property!
What is more important: a worthless piece of property or
a church that will help bring souls to Christ?
We can be certain that if Rear Wheel (merely a synonymn for NTCC, according to Joe Olson) forked over $200K to ostensibly help Eli out of a jam that there was an ulterior motive involving profitability to himself. No money gets spent unless it will yield dividends to the bottom line. Even when he did give to someone, he made sure to sound the trumpets and make a big show of it. PR work is good for the bottom line too, don't you know?
The "apostle" constantly affirmed to us that he had no friends. Of course, the bible tells us that to have them, we must show ourselves friendly, so that's no surprise--he hasn't been a friend to anyone.
Chief said...
Anonymous said...
and here they are giving away 200 thousand to help somebody out of a bind because they were foolish enough to get into that mess.
Chief said...
They didn't really give away 200K. The land is probably worth 400K. There had to be something extra in it for RWD. He wasn't being a humanitarian with that exchange, I can assure you. And the 80K church you mentioned was probably worth 100K but RDUB probably wouldn't buy it unless it was worth 120K. RDUB is a shyster. He's going to try to cheat you out of every dime he can get and if he's not getting the best end of the deal he's not doing business.
Hey, I can appreciate a good deal also but it's not necessary to take everyone to the cleaners every time you do business with them. I'm telling you, RWD is a crook, shyster and this world is full of enough fools to line his pockets quite well. I'm just no longer the one.
Chief
And to think that in the conferences they would talk about ministers that would practically beg rw to give the approval to buy a church!
I don't know if everybody is aware that once the org. buys a church that church is bought cash and then the pastor pays rent to the org. forever and ever. Unless that property it's sold or the church gets closed down, which is unlikely. They rather have an empty church, like barnes church where terry is now, because you see, terry has to keep paying rent to the org. and if he can't pay, than they will send somebody else who can. It's more profitable to keep the church open because at least rent will keep coming in, members or no members. Or as we often heard:
"when I pay, everybody pays"
So, does the minister of the church know that his church is already paid for in full. Would he not question why he is still paying rent? when he knows there is no landlord to pay the rent to. This seems really ignorant, so he essentially pays the rent back to Graham, to then be paid to the so called landlord. I was always under the impression a minister started a church with his own money not the NTCC money.
Anonymous said...
So, does the minister of the church know that his church is already paid for in full. Would he not question why he is still paying rent?
Chief said...
Sure he knows. He doesn't question it because he is brainwashed and I'm not exaggerating. When they do finally get un-brainwashed, (which occasionally happens) they then begin to question the practice in their mind. They won't question RWD though cause they are scared for the most part. Once that happens, it's not "too" long before they leave NTCC. Among other reasons, I'd bet my last dollar that is why Barnes left the NTCC and took his church with him. He got tired of paying the NTCC. No doubt he wanted to pay himself. That is why Denis left. That is why RWD left his church years ago and started the NTCC. He wanted to be the head, not the tail. Don't believe his lie about holiness because that wasn't it at all. Denis left the NTCC cause he wanted to get a much bigger piece of the pie and he knew it would never happen as long as he was still part of the NTCC.
Denis wanted to control the money just like RWD does and I'm sure Barnes wanted the same. Barnes didn't tell me that but I'm sure it's true. Barnes is money hungry just like Davis or at least he used to be cause I heard him preach. He preached about money entirely too much and how it wasn't his church member business how he spent the money they gave him. That is how the NTCC gets you. They don't want you to just give them your money, on no, (LISTEN CLOSE) they want you to BLINDLY give them your money with no regard concerning how they spend it. Once they've got you brainwashed into that mindset, THEY'VE GOT YOU REAL GOOD!!!!!
That in a nutshell is the entire scam. "You better give me your money or your going to hell and you better not worry about what I do with it." Once they get you to believe that, YOUR DONE!!!!!!!!! Hook line and sinker.
Chief
Yes sir, SteakBoy, it is the
gesang rental #2, it was puchased by Davis in 2007, but it is registered under NTCC who is the taxpayer. It appears by the paper on file with Pierce County, gesang purchased the property for $175,000.00, as best as I can understand. Davis and Gesang have a very close business relationship, so I can believe that this was done solely to help Gesang.
No Vic, this 2k to Gesang was not broadcast at all, but Kekel blurted it out after being caught off guard by the question, and when he said, it was myself and one other person present. They would never announce this transaction to the poor souls they hold captive in Graham!
Anonymous said...
so I can believe that this was done solely to help Gesang.
Chief said...
Trust me, nothing RWD ever does is solely to help anyone other than him. It may help someone else and I'm sure it helped Gesang but you better believe, there was a huge benefit in it for RWD somehow. The only helping business RWD's in is helping himself. That is how he operates. Gesang no doubt has dirt on RWD or there was more than we know but believe me, I'll guarantee there was an angle to it. RWD doesn't just kick out $200,000 to help anyone and when you are talking about that much money, frankly I don't blame him. It wouldn't matter if I was a millionaire. I wouldn't have become that wealthy because I made it a practice to just give away $200,000 cause someone was in a bind. Believe me, there was more to that whole deal that none of us will ever know. RWD doesn't just blow a fifth of a million dollars.
Chief
"It appears to me the property is in the name of NTCC and that NTCC are the taxpayers of the property, so evidently NTCC money and Davis money is the same money. Could that be what Davis and Kekel mean when they say, Davis paid for it with his own money?"
-Anonymous
I think what they attribute as RW's money is what comes in under the tithe account to Graham. Every dollar that comes into a church falls into one of two categories: 1) Offerings go to General Fund 2) Tithe goes to Tithe Fund (or Pastor's Tithe). All expenses are to be paid out of the general fund before any finances come out of the tithe fund. Everything in the tithe fund belongs to the pastor after the churches operational needs are met. Then escrow is paid. Under this philosophy Kekel could honestly say RW paid for something with his own money if it was paid for out of the tithe fund. I think this is what they've been referring to the whole time. Remember RW designed this system and has been prospering from it for a long time!
Eric
Chief, not only are the ministers brainwashed, but they are also being deceived. I recall a meeting held by Rev. Difrancesco with ministers who were leaving Graham to go to mission field, I was in attendance in this meeting. In this meeting was the first time that I ever heard that the ministers out in the works were required to send their tithe, the churche's tithe, and a weekly report to Graham.
I had always assumed that the preachers tithe would go to support the local church, but this info is never shared by ministers, teachers, or the so-called leaders until the new preachers are leaving bible school and into the field.
I remember Rev. Parks who had a very successful work in New York, who quit the work, and left the so-called org, strictly over money! These money hounds wanted total control of the money coming into that Church and Parks would have none off it!
I did not kow it at that time, but over the years, it came out that the church in Graham controls the finances of all the churches and ministers in the servicemen's homes were not allowed to spend over $50.00 without permission from some overseer in Graham.
Chief, this property is not worth $200,000.00 and it really was a bad investment by Eli. Terrible condition, terrible neighborhood, and when purchased by gesang it was well overpriced. I have not seen it, but have reliable info from someone who has and it is a dump! No way will Davis make a profit on this property.
I was shocked to find out my tithe would be getting sent back to Graham when I first left to go out to a work as well. I was kind of excited to be going to a small church knowing that I would be able to help it financially. Instead, I had to do that after my tithe.
Sad.
Eric
Anonymous said...
"Yes sir, SteakBoy, it is the
gesang rental #2, it was puchased by Davis in 2007 but it is registered under NTCC who is the taxpayer. It appears by the paper on file with Pierce County, gesang purchased the property for $175,000.00, as best as I can understand. ..."
Say what? says,
Is there a link showing a deed, perhaps with the Pierce County Auditor, where Davis bought the property from Gesang in 2007? And that ntcc pays taxes? Asking because:
This Pierce County Assessor-Treasurer site has the taxpayer as "1418 BRAZILL ST" (not ntcc).
Gesang Rental 2
http://epip.co.pierce.wa.us/cfapps/Atr/ePIP/sales.cfm?parcel=3810000800
Thanks in advance.
Thank you Eric for your reply in regards to the Pastor's tithe's, it makes perfect sense. Where else would Davis get an income from since he has not worked on a real job in 2-3 decades?
Anonymous said...
"Chief, this property is not worth $200,000.00 and it really was a bad investment by Eli. Terrible condition, terrible neighborhood, and when purchased by gesang it was well overpriced. I have not seen it, but have reliable info from someone who has and it is a dump! No way will Davis make a profit on this property."
MARCH 22, 2012 8:11 PM
Fo Sho say,
Well... Eli is no fool. He knows how to flip a building if he has to. Plus, the borg usually rents these dumps to their students or ministers, often expecting them to do the renovation work for free. Then they can be moved to another work and the rent can be raised on the next tenants. Just another day of life in the NTCC.
Maybe these blogs are causing enough folks to leave; and Eli couldn't count on a fresh crop of gullible students to get stuck in this 'dump'!
But now that Davis is involved that property WILL turn a profit; just like Chief said, Davis doesn't help for free. He's going to make money; or he wouldn't do it.
Fo Sho
Anonymous said...
Chief, this property is not worth $200,000.00 and it really was a bad investment by Eli. Terrible condition, terrible neighborhood, and when purchased by gesang it was well overpriced. I have not seen it, but have reliable info from someone who has and it is a dump! No way will Davis make a profit on this property.
Chief said...
Davis doesn't waste $200,000 under any circumstances. Everything you say may be right but then there is something we don't know. Something you don't know. Davis ain't just going Willy Nilly with 200K. Who knows what it was; maybe a blackmail, maybe Gezang had too much dirt on Davis, maybe Gazang himself had done so much underhanded stuff that Davis knew about it and Gezang knew that Davis knew about, maybe it could be developed and cleared and cleaned up real good but I'm sticking to my guns on this one. Davis ain't just spending 200K because he is a humanitarian. I know better than that. There is more to this Gezang-Davis deal than you and I know about. RWD ain't going Willy Nilly with twohundred grand.
Chief
Fo Sho: You and I agree on this one. Maybe Gezang walked into what was supposed to be an empty room just to find old RDUB getting a little hoba-knoba like Bill Clinton or something but the Dubster didn't just go through 200 Grand for nothing.
Say what, says, is there a link showing the deed, perhaps with the pierce county auditor where Davis brought the property from Gesang in 2007?
Yes sir, there is a Deed of Trust, instrument #200704021179, item #103under the party name: New Testament Christian Church, signed on 03/30/2007.
I saw the deed for the 1418 Brazil St. which is listed under the party name: gesang, elliot. This is a statutory warranty deed which gesang paid one dollar for on 04/02/2007. This transaction took place a few days after the property was purchased from gesang by ntcc for $200,000.00.
I do not fully understand what transpired, but it seems that NTCC bought the property from gesang for 2k and sold it back to him a few days later for one dollar. I maybe wrong, but that is how it appears to me.
excuse me, I meant 200k.
I maybe mistaken about Gesang being in foreclosure on the property, but it looks like the party that he purchased the property from may have been dealing with a foreclosure.
Maybe Rear Wheel Drive (RWD) bag, got his wheels stuck in some one else's mud bog and he got his wing tips dirty. In exchange for shining RWDirtbags shoes, Gezang asked Dub for 200k in hush money. To wash the dirty money R-dub bought the property and sold it back to Gezang for 2 bucks. Stranger things have happened on planet NTCC.
"No Vic, this 2[00]k to Gesang was not broadcast at all, but Kekel blurted it out after being caught off guard by the question, and when he said, it was myself and one other person present. They would never announce this transaction to the poor souls they hold captive in Graham!"
That's my point--if he was really doing it to help Eli, he would have broadcast it. That's how he rolls. Chief may have nailed it, though--Eli knows where at least some of the bodies are buried. I'm sure there's a chapter from Machiavelli about situations like that. RW loves being in control, but he's shrewd enough to realize his vulnerabilities.
We might not know enough to get him thrown in jail, but I bet some people do.
"Thank you Eric for your reply in regards to the Pastor's tithe's, it makes perfect sense. Where else would Davis get an income from since he has not worked on a real job in 2-3 decades?"
RW has claimed for years (since at least the early '80s) that his money comes from investments, and that he takes zero income from the church. It's all academic anyway; one doesn't need any income when he has absolute control over a corporation that will spring for million dollar houses, cadillacs, and plush motorhomes. He may not take a cash income (although I personally doubt that), but he has the authority to have the corporation buy and hold any bling he covets. So he can have a wallet full of cash that's technically not his, yet he can spend it however he pleases on goods that, though they don't technically belong to him, he uses and controls. Pretty slick.
"I had always assumed that the preachers tithe would go to support the local church, but this info is never shared by ministers, teachers, or the so-called leaders until the new preachers are leaving bible school and into the field."
Well, they used to be upfront about it. I took church finance classes taught by RW himself. He explained that initially, the pastors were allowed to put half their tithe into the local churches. He said that it was changed because that wasn't "biblical" (too bad he didn't figure out that tithing isn't either). But they also used to teach that all the tithe belonged to the pastor, and there was no such thing as an "escrow" account.
I should dig out some of those old notes. I still have them, and I'm sure I could find some entertaining passages right from the horse's ass to post here.
As most of you know, before my departure from NTCC, I went to Rev. Olson for spiritual help, which I did not receive. I was ignored for several months until I sent another email letting him know that I realized that they did not really care about us. During a particular call, I informed Rev. Olson that I would be paying my personal tithe to the local church. He replied, if you don't send your tithe to us then me and Pastor Davis cannot help you." I had him on speaker and my wife witnessed the entire conversation. I was trying to figure out what help they were giving me considering I had not heard from them after explaining to him my situation and I didn't receive a response? I guess they won't pray for you unless you pay tithe.
Bro. Bellamy
Bro. Bellamy said:
"During a particular call, I informed Rev. Olson that I would be paying my personal tithe to the local church. He replied, if you don't send your tithe to us then me and Pastor Davis cannot help you." I had him on speaker and my wife witnessed the entire conversation."
DnA said:
You have to be spiritual to give spiritual advise, and these guys are about as carnal as you can get. Their response should be, "Brother lets pray together or lets take a look at scriptures that deal with God helping people with similar problems or issues". When you put a price tag on help or pastoral advise, it has to be because they are not interested in helping anyone. "Give us your money, and we'll pray for you", can be accomplished through TV ministries and infomercial scams.
In the ntcc, if you are seeking help, you are more likely to hear, "You brought this on your self". Or, "If you had listened to me, this never would have happened to you".
If Jesus had the same attitude as Olson and RWD, He would have grabbed a stone and chucked it at the woman taken in adultery. He would have told the Blind man, "Pay your tithe to me first, and then I'll help you". He would have definitely tried to get some money off of the Centurion before he healed his servant. He would have gone over to the centurions house to see what kind of reward he could get.
I wonder what RWD would do if Jesus asked him to sell all that he had, and give to the poor? I'm sure he would go away very sorrowful, because he has great riches and it has never been in his financial interest to help anyone. These people do not care about anyone but themselves. They are completely lazy, they haven't worked a job in decades and they have accumulated wealth off of struggling families. They will set you up for failure by sending you broke into a town, and they will watch as you and your family struggle with nothing, and when you fail they will not be there for you. When you ask them for help, they have none to offer because they are the opposite of what a spiritual leader should be. It would be like asking Michael Vick to watch your Pitt bull while you go on vacation.
DnA
Bro Bellamy said...
"During a particular call, I informed Rev. Olson that I would be paying my personal tithe to the local church. He replied, if you don't send your tithe to us then me and Pastor Davis cannot help you." I had him on speaker and my wife witnessed the entire conversation."
Chief said...
Didn't you know that RWD is the only one who can pay tithe to himself i.e. his own church? Silly you Bro Bellamy. Also, God requires payment up front if he is to provide you with spiritual guidance. Bro, you didn't know? Heaven is a business and all funds must pass though Graham or God can't hear Olson's prayers. Olson is a punk/chump. I have zero respect for Olson. Olson is absolutely not a spiritual man. As good character goes, Olson is at the bottom of the bucket. Hitler had more character then Olson does. I have more respect for Kim Jung ILL than Olson. Olson is a joke. Can you tell I think highly of Olson?
Chief
"He replied, if you don't send your tithe to us then me and Pastor Davis cannot help you.""
Well, Rear Wheel did always teach us that he's the pope of NTCC, so I guess he's going with the Roman Catholic doctrine of indulgences too.
It's past time for someone to nail a list of theses to their door (and it won't be hard to far exceed 95).
Amen to that Victorious Martin Luther.
All Catholics, I mean Christians pay tithes and give in the offering if they want help from us.
I can't believe how crooked the Olson and Davis are. It's amazing that he even said that to the Brother. "If you stop paying tithes, we can't help you." So Christianity has become about paying tithes and paying tithes only. People do yourselves a favor, leave the NTCC for good as soon as you can. RWD and Olson have enough of your money, can't you see that?
Do you really believe that Christianity is all about paying tithes and you can't help someone unless they do it. I can't imagine the Good Samaritan saying, "Dude, I know you are dying on the side of the road but dude, I can't help you unless you pay me your tithes first." Man you might as well throw the story of the Good Samaritan right in the trash because obviously not one person still in the NTCC, certainly to include RWD and Olson has a clue what message Jesus was trying to get across in that story.
The Samaritan wasn't a Jew and the Samaritans didn't even have dealings with the Jews but yet that Samaritan still had quote, "enough Christianity" to help out a soul in need and it had nothing to do with what the dude who was dying on the side of the road could give back. There were no strings attached and that is the exact opposite of what Sorry Chump Olson told Brother Bellamy. Listen people, Olson and RWD don't know the first thing about Christianity.
Their christianity hinges upon one thing and one thing only, whether or not you pay tithe.
Chief
Anonymous said...
Amen to that Victorious Martin Luther.
All Catholics, I mean Christians pay tithes and give in the offering if they want help from us.
Praise the Loot, I mean praise the Lord!
Last time I read my Bible they were doing the same thing 2,000 plus years ago, but Jesus got pissed off and Turned the Tables, so to say.
Whats going on Chief!!!
Bro Johnson
On a separate note, here is one of Kekel's businesses - Willard Properties and I think awhile back there was something about Tanya having some kind of interior decorating business, but that isn't active when you search for "Kekel" on the Department of Revenue site.
Either way, whether it's the 39 acres, property to build mansions and rental houses, Kekel's houses or Kinson's house, sunny vacation home for RWD-bag, they're putting in alot of money. And don't tell me that RWD-bag just gives away $1.5 million to NTCC out of the kindness of his heart with "his own money"...
Steakboy said,
"Tanya having some kind of interior decorating business, but that isn't active when you search for "Kekel" on the Department of Revenue site."
Fo Sho say,
She prolly charging everyone "off da books" to avoid taxes, just like her (pimp) daddy taught her. Always daddy's girl. Even if she was adopted!
Bro J. Long time. How's the family? Yeah, Jesus was flipping tables when this kind of garbage was going on. These NTCC leaders are crooks. They have so many tax evasion tricks up their sleeve it's like a magic show. Giving property away and then getting it back once they get caught, buying property from Gesang and selling it back. They pull more property flip tricks than a whore on broadway. I'm telling you Bro, these guys are some tricky dudes. They've got every scheme in the book figured out on how to get your money and they also know every trick in the book to keep it away from the government.
Get you paying tithes, get you giving in the offerings, get you to pay rent at the home and an occasional special offering, take up special offerings for blacktop paving that periodically never happens, church signs, pews, song books, world missions, help the pastor pay the rent when he doesn't feel like spending his own money, charge you rent for the church you use, control the escrows, get more tithe coming to Graham from all the churches around the world, get people to Graham to charge them tuition to receive a transcript that ain't worth a dime, have you pay cash to rent RWDs houses, pay you chump change on the building crew just to get another ten percent of that back so if they are paying you 10 dollars an hour, that means they are really only paying you 9, get you to do all kinds of free labor for them, get you to clean their houses, wash their cars, baby sit their kids and the list goes on. Does that sort of make the picture clear? It's all a big scheme to get every dime you own. And they get you to give up all this extra money when they are happily sitting on millions, and millions, and millions. They'll get you to spend your last dime so those millionaires don't have to spend a dime.
And then tell a dude like Bro Bellamy that he gets no help from Davis or Olson if he keeps his tithe in his own church like Davis keeps in his. It's nothing but a big scam and it has become ridiculously obvious. RWD has people believing that he is doing them a favor because RWD rents them his house and only takes cash for payment.
Then RWD throws you a little chump "draw" bone of a couple thousand dollars just to keep you strung out like you are on crack. Oh wow, pastor let me take a $4000 draw. Man that is chump change compared to all the money you've given the NTCC. All he is doing is dangling a carrot in front of you and you snort it right up like you are some kind of crack fiend who just got another quick fix.
Go ahead and keep giving all your money away to the NTCC who could care less about you. You mean nothing to those crooks. You only mean as much to them as your next tithe check and Bro Bellamy sure figured that out.
Chief
Davis operates the ntcc as if he was the Levitical High Priest which existed under the Law of Moses, and all tithes should be paid to him, but just like the Levitical priest who refused to use the tithe according to God's law in not accepting money, not distributing a portion of the tithes back to the people at designated times, and not using a portion of the tithe to help feed the poor, but just as the Levitical priest became corrupted by greed so has Davis and his band of thieves.
I do not believe Christ, nor any of his disciples ever collected a tithe from anyone, because they lived under a state of grace with all men on the same level ground in God with Christ as our High Priest who does not need to be supported by a tithe from anyone.
Of course God expects his people to support a true ministry of the Lord through giving out of love and from the blessings of God.
God no longer require anyone to pay a tenth of their income to any man on the face of this earth.
A real man of God will tell you that salvation is free and any man who demands a tenth of your income is a false prophet who wants to make merchandise of you!
Anonymous said...
"I know because many of the ladies tried to find the same brand to wear, but since it was so expensive, we'd rummage through thrift stores just to find the name "misook" or try to find them on eBay. When u go to conference, do u ever notice all the wives wearing the same thing Tanya does? Well, only those that were able to afford it...or find it elsewhere. In my years of rummaging, I only found two tops, and since that's all she wears, day in and day out, u can't tell me it was from rummaging. U think she'd go to a "kook" store as they call it? Or maybe all of her outfits were given to her? Yeah right.
Look up misook online. Go to Nordstrom or Dillard's and check it out...the price tags!!!"
Fo Sho say,
She prolly don't get her stuff from da kook store. But she did buy DeFrancesco's baby a outfit from da kook store. Now dat's cheap! Youse gots all dis money an dat money to spend on yoself; but you gonna buy somebody's baby a outfit from da kook store? Can we all hear da birdies sing "Cheap! Cheap! Cheap!"
Fo Sho
Fo Sho said...
Even if she was adopted!
Chief said...
That's assuming that RWD didn't adopt his own biological daughter who was the result of an illegitimate relationship. He sure acted like it was his real daughter when he gave his heart wrenching testimony during that one conference about how he was actually there while Tanya was being born. That whole thing is fishy also. Why was he even there watching a girl get born who wasn't even his biological daughter. Like everything else in the NTCC, it don't add up!!!!
We know she ain't Verna's kid but we don't know she ain't RWD's kid. RWD might have been doing a little hanky panky with one of those Filipino ladies and botta boom botta bing, here comes Tanya. Speculation of course but certainly quite plausible especially after the testimony I heard RWD give during that one conference. My recollection is quite good.
Chief
WHAT????? if you rent a house in Graham on the church grounds you must pay only in cash, no checks accepted. Did a reliable source tell you this Chief, and if so, what is the reason for this? Most people pay rent or mortgage payments with a check, this is very odd to ask your tenants to do that. That is after all, exactly what they are tenants. Like I said before the only people left have such a web tied to the NTCC. They probably think they can never survive without the NTCC. So not true.
Fo Sho ! you forgot your how to speak classes from Kekel already ?
He said not to say dis one an dat one !
LOL...
Pimps in the Pulpit You have to see it ! Just like NTCC. Many different offerings and thinking they are right.
By the way, Michigan State got eliminated. So much for the Billiken's head coach prediction that Michigan State would win it all. He only said that because he wanted to make his team who had just lost seem better than they were. Well being that Michigan State got knocked out the very next round, I guess the team that beat Kekel's billikens wasn't that great after all. I don't want the money that I got conned out of by the NTCC to get used so the Billikens can win the NCAA tournament. Down with the Billikens.
Chief
Anonymous asked...
WHAT????? if you rent a house in Graham on the church grounds you must pay only in cash, no checks accepted. Did a reliable source tell you this Chief, and if so, what is the reason for this?
Chief said...
Yes, many reliable sources told me this. The reason that RWD the crook gives is that he doesn't want to deal with a bounced check. Well I think that is a crock. I'm confident that the real reason is the perpetuation of tax evasion. You can't track cash baby but a check you can. It used to be that you had to pay your tithes in cash also and it may still be that way, I wouldn't know for sure.
Chief
Anonymous said.."Is there a link showing a deed, perhaps with the Pierce County Auditor, where Davis bought the property from Gesang in 2007? And that ntcc pays taxes? Asking because: This Pierce County Assessor-Treasurer site has the taxpayer as "1418 BRAZILL ST" (not ntcc)."
That's a good question and I don't think Gesang went in foreclosure unless he wanted a way of pulling out equity that wasn't there for the property. I think that Gesang found someone in foreclosure and offered to help them while later using NTCC as the money source instead of traditional financing or Eastside Funding like in previous times. When making offers on churches they always tell you to put a lowball offer in, but that we (NTCC) have cash and can close quickly. I believe that you can point it out by going to their search site that I listed before Pierce County Auditor Search and use instrument # 200704021179 for the document. You can also put 3810000800 in the field called Parcel # and that would help. You have to first click "I Accept" then it'll take you to the search site where you can copy and paste that number into the field "Instrument # From" and click "Search".
Generally in a sale you'd have an "excise tax affidavit" where it shows what you paid or what you sold a property for, but this is not too clear because of things he did in 2006 and 2007. There is an amount paid, Statutory Warranty Deed to their LLC, and a Deed of Trust between them and NTCC on 4/2/2007. You do have a Deed of Trust between Gesang (grantor) to NTCC (grantee) for that amount. Basically a Deed of Trust is "a document which pledges real property to secure a loan and is used instead of a mortgage and line of credit in certain states." Here is a couple definitions for you law students -
Deed of Trust Definition 1
Deed of Trust 2
Another thing you could do is go on the Pierce County Auditor search website for the Real Estate Index and put "Gesang" in the party name and in the "Document Type" select all of the Deed types (Hold Shift or Ctrl buttons while selecting), then click Search and you'll get all of his properties.
Don't let the LLC name fool you, it's a way for Gesang to be able to operate it and sometimes real estate investors will separate a property out by an LLC for tax and asset protection purposes and to setup separate checking accounts for that property. You can look up "Gesang" or "1418 Brazill" here WA Dept of Revenue . He also owned Yudels, LLC and you see that name come up along with Gesang Entperprises when you go to the Pierce County Auditor and Assessor-Treasurer websites. You can also use the WA Secretary of State website too -
Yudels
1418 Brazill LLC
OR use the Advanced Search and look for him as a Registered Agent -
All Gesang Businesses
Anonymous said.."Is there a link showing a deed, perhaps with the Pierce County Auditor, where Davis bought the property from Gesang in 2007? And that ntcc pays taxes? Asking because: This Pierce County Assessor-Treasurer site has the taxpayer as "1418 BRAZILL ST" (not ntcc)."
That's a good question and I don't think Gesang went in foreclosure unless he wanted a way of pulling out equity that wasn't there for the property. I think that Gesang found someone in foreclosure and offered to help them while later using NTCC as the money source instead of traditional financing or Eastside Funding like in previous times. When making offers on churches they always tell you to put a lowball offer in, but that we (NTCC) have cash and can close quickly. I believe that you can point it out by going to their search site that I listed before Pierce County Auditor Search and use instrument # 200704021179 for the document. You can also put 3810000800 in the field called Parcel # and that would help. You have to first click "I Accept" then it'll take you to the search site where you can copy and paste that number into the field "Instrument # From" and click "Search".
everyone,
using the pierce county auditor search in the previous post, type in the words
new testament
then hit search
you can sort the results by date or however... by date it goes back to 1989.
davis may have done things in his name but you need sift through the search results to see what transactions were done in whose name as well as to see how the search engine may recognize the name.
from there, you can type the name in the search box.
also, on some of the paperwork images, you'll notice big names in ntcc also notarized the documents.
just goes to show you everything is kept internal to not raise any eyebrows..
1418 brazill st llc is a corporation
that looks like gesang owns
darrin butler signed a document as the notary public.
do a search for 1418 brazill st llc and two things pop up.
you can enter johnson,difrancesco,butler, all the big names and stuff will show up
davis has some stuff under
davis r w verna m
and
davis rodger w verna m
type in difrancesco and the "codes" for other names like johnson and other people show up as well
is bret difrancesco his son ? if so, looks like he is leaving him some property too !
LOL, ok
i need to stop searching for a bit.
I just read a quit claim deed from 1984 where new testament church of god granted in consideration of love and affection the property to davis and wife and to kekel and wife. Joint tenants with rights of survivorship.
And you ntcc'rs think we are all lying. the proof is plain to see.
so, just keep giving your money to kekel and davis so they can take the easy life.
by the way just type kekel in the search box using the search real estate index and you'll see it.
i just saw a document from 2011 november of the kekels granting property to ntcc. it was an excise tax document but since the sell price was 0, there wasn't any tax.
elliot gesang signed it off as the agent.
i dont understand all the real estate stuff, but it just looks like a shell game to me
Anonymous said...
I don't understand all the real estate stuff, but it just looks like a shell game to me.
Chief said...
I think you nailed it. It's seems pretty obvious to me but there's a sucker born every day. It took me about 2 weeks (tops) maybe 1 week of reading Factnet to figure out that the NTCC was no place for me. It's obvious that the NTCC leadership is focused on just a few things; avoiding taxes anyway possible, accumulating property, making money off the property by charging church members and ministers, and in addition, soaking church members and ministers for every dime they can get.
I mean it's ridiculously obvious. Olson and Davis could care less about souls and the fact is they don't care about anyone other than their family. There have been many testimonies which prove that not the least of which is Bro Bellamy's.
Chief
Olson is too busy for anyone...he has no time...and has to schedule every conversation and can't even keep to his word...
He sure has a large vocabulary of fluff words to "encourage" but no substance, no real care...
actions speak louder than words.
and his daughter too...all I remember her ever talking about was shopping as well...smh
"WHAT????? if you rent a house in Graham on the church grounds you must pay only in cash, no checks accepted."
It has also been reported that receipts aren't furnished either. Can't have any pesky paper trails, you know. The whole operation smells very fishy, and where there's this much smoke, the fire is probably pretty big.
"That's assuming that RWD didn't adopt his own biological daughter who was the result of an illegitimate relationship."
Now Chief, you know it's just coincidence that she looks like an oriental RWD in tight drag. And the Apostle is way too holy to get involved in any extramarital affairs. All those women who've accused him are just pawns of the devil; don't you know that RW is a Modern Day Moses. Hey, if you don't believe it, just ask him!
Vic said:
"Now Chief, you know it's just coincidence that she looks like an oriental RWD in tight drag."
Speaking of drag......
click the "Speaking of Drag" link above or copy and paste the following into your browser:
http://ntccxerblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/rudy-was-known-sexual-deviant-prior-to.html
Is there anything these people are not capable of? Wow, and I thought I was attending a "Christian" church. So much for that.
Chief said...
Vic said...
"Now Chief, you know it's just coincidence that she looks like an oriental RWD in tight drag."
Chief said...
There is a resemblance. Like I said, RWD sure acted like Tanya was his biological daughter with that testimony he gave during conference. Basically he said she was born dead and he held her up to the Lord and cried out and breath came into her. Why would he do that if Tanya wasn't his real daughter and if she wasn't his real daughter, why was he even physically present for her delivery? I mean these are legitimate questions, right?
I could be wrong but it sure seems, (based on the testimony that I listened to RWD make) that Tanya is his real daughter. We also know that based on Tanya's birth certificate, that for certain she is not Verna's daughter. You know, I could care less if RWD was messing with other women, which because of other testimonies we know he was. My problem is with RWD putting all these heavy burdens on everyone else when he didn't even remotely have the moral strength to keep himself clean and without sin. RWD is such a hypocritical conniving crook and his organization is a farce.
Now I'm not just some conspiracy theory dude. I personally listened to RWD give his testimony about Tanya's birth because I was at that conference. With all this available information, it's a little hard for me to understand how people could still think that RWD is a Godly man. To me, he is a common everyday con-artist, no more, no less.
Chief
I've written so much about Kekel are RWD and I sometimes wonder why but the answer is always clear. The NTCC, which is lead by RWD and Kekel, has for decades wrecked the lives of many, many people and they don't let off so why should I??? 6 days a week they cram their propaganda down the throats of thousands and they never let up and what they are doing is wrong, so why should I let up??
"All Christians pay tithe and give in the offering and you can't out-give God" and they've financially destroyed so many families just so they could live like princes, kings and queens. I can't stand their prosperity doctrine because it's evil and the only people in their church who prosper because of it is them or a few other crooks who are just like them.
Chief
Chief, it was the same old speel in Graham, like your previous comment. They would repeat the same thing every service, and of course so would all the other preachers, they sounded like a bunch of broken records. It was rare that they would come up with anything new to say. Then you woulde have Kekel, I have always thought I was a good judge of character, but I always thought him "different" something is just not quite right about him. I always felt that way in particular about him, Davis I just tried to avoid talking to. He just was not approachable at all. He always has this angry scowell on his face, the older he gets the worse it gets. I remember Keckel saying, Pastor Davis is not mean, he just looks that way.
WAC 458-61a-201 Gifts
(1) Introduction. Generally, a gift of real property is not a sale, and is not subject to the real estate excise tax. A gift of real property is a transfer for which there is no consideration given in return for granting an interest in the property. If consideration is given in return for the interest granted, then the transfer is not a gift, but a sale, and it is subject to the real estate excise tax to the extent of the consideration received.
(2) Consideration. See WAC 458-61A-102 for the definition of "consideration." Consideration may also include:
(a) Monetary payments from the grantee to the grantor; or
(b) Monetary payments from the grantee toward underlying debt (such as a mortgage) on the property that was transferred, whether the payments are made toward existing or refinanced debt.
(2) "Consideration" means money or anything of value, either tangible or intangible, paid or delivered, or contracted to be paid or delivered, including performance of services, in return for the transfer of real property. The term includes the amount of any lien, mortgage, contract indebtedness, or other encumbrance, given to secure the purchase price, or any part thereof, or remaining unpaid on the property at the time of sale. For example, Lee purchases a home for $250,000. He puts down $50,000, and finances the balance of $200,000. The full consideration paid for the house is $250,000.
(a) "Consideration" includes the issue of an ownership interest in any entity in exchange for a transfer of real property to the entity. For example, if Julie transfers title to 20 acres of commercial property to Smith Development, LLC in exchange for a 50% ownership interest in the company, that constitutes consideration for the transfer. In the case of partnerships, consideration includes the increase in the capital account of the partner made as a result of the partner's transfer of real property to the partnership, unless the transfer is otherwise specifically exempt under WAC 458-61A-211 or 458-61A-212.
(b) "Consideration" includes the assumption of an underlying debt on the property by the buyer at the time of transfer. For example, Ben buys a residence, valued at $300,000, from Liza. Liza was purchasing the property on a real estate contract that has an outstanding balance of $175,000. Ben gives Liza $125,000 in cash and he assumes the obligation on the real estate contract, which Liza assigns to him. Real estate excise tax is due on $300,000, which is the total consideration for the sale.
(c) "Consideration" does not include the amount of any outstanding lien or encumbrance in favor of the United States, the state, or a municipal corporation for taxes, special benefits, or improvements. For example, Mel buys residential property for $300,000. The title is encumbered by a lien for unpaid property taxes in the amount of $12,000, and a lien for municipal sidewalk improvements in the amount of $6,000. Although Mel will become liable for those liens in order to take title to the property, they are not considered part of the purchase price for the purpose of calculating real estate excise tax. The real estate excise tax is due only on the purchase price of $300,000.
(3) Assumption of debt. If the grantee agrees to assume payment of the grantor's debt on the property in return for the transfer, there is consideration, and the transfer is not exempt from tax. Real estate excise tax is due on the amount of debt assumed, in addition to any other form of payment made by the grantee to the grantor in return for the transfer. However, equity in the property can be gifted.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-regs/co2695.txt
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-02-37.pdf
Somehow I don't think that the IRS, or any other taxing authority would consider, "love and affection," and "No onsideration," or a "gift" from The CEO, as viable reasons for not paying the proper taxes due. Especially when there isn't that much love, when it comes to the multitude of normal folks who laid their lives down for Christ for years, but were not, "the insiders, or in the clicks," of the borg. I publish anonymously, because I do not wish reprisals upon the ones I love.
Reprisals may open their eyes and set them free.
Generally in a sale you'd have an "excise tax affidavit" where it shows what you paid or what you sold a property for, but this is not too clear because of things he did in 2006 and 2007. There is an amount paid, Statutory Warranty Deed to their LLC, and a Deed of Trust between them and NTCC on 4/2/2007. You do have a Deed of Trust between Gesang (grantor) to NTCC (grantee) for that amount. Basically a Deed of Trust is "a document which pledges real property to secure a loan and is used instead of a mortgage and line of credit in certain states." Here is a couple definitions for you law students -
Deed of Trust Definition 1
Deed of Trust 2
Another thing you could do is go on the Pierce County Auditor search website for the Real Estate Index and put "Gesang" in the party name and in the "Document Type" select all of the Deed types (Hold Shift or Ctrl buttons while selecting), then click Search and you'll get all of his properties.
Don't let the LLC name fool you, it's a way for Gesang to be able to operate it and sometimes real estate investors will separate a property out by an LLC for tax and asset protection purposes and to setup separate checking accounts for that property. You can look up "Gesang" or "1418 Brazill" here WA Dept of Revenue . He also owned Yudels, LLC and you see that name come up along with Gesang Entperprises when you go to the Pierce County Auditor and Assessor-Treasurer websites. You can also use the WA Secretary of State website too -
Yudels
1418 Brazill LLC
OR use the Advanced Search and look for him as a Registered Agent -
All Gesang Businesses
WOW!
The NTCC Shell Game
It's even done slowly and they still are good at it.
All Gesang Businesses
So NTCC was used to secure a $200,000 loan for a rental property for Gesang? I wonder what the interest rate for that loan was and how they can justify lending to another Christian because that is "usury" (Deuteronomy 23:19-20). Also, isn't that "pecuniary profit"?
Generally in a sale you'd have an "excise tax affidavit" where it shows what you paid or what you sold a property for, but this is not too clear because of things he did in 2006 and 2007. There is an amount paid, Statutory Warranty Deed to their LLC, and a Deed of Trust between them and NTCC on 4/2/2007. You do have a Deed of Trust between Gesang (grantor) to NTCC (grantee) for that amount. Basically a Deed of Trust is "a document which pledges real property to secure a loan and is used instead of a mortgage and line of credit in certain states." Here is a couple definitions for you law students -
Deed of Trust Definition 1
Deed of Trust 2
Another thing you could do is go on the Pierce County Auditor search website for the Real Estate Index and put "Gesang" in the party name and in the "Document Type" select all of the Deed types (Hold Shift or Ctrl buttons while selecting), then click Search and you'll get all of his properties.
Don't let the LLC name fool you, it's a way for Gesang to be able to operate it and sometimes real estate investors will separate a property out by an LLC for tax and asset protection purposes and to setup separate checking accounts for that property. You can look up "Gesang" or "1418 Brazill" here WA Dept of Revenue . He also owned Yudels, LLC and you see that name come up along with Gesang Entperprises when you go to the Pierce County Auditor and Assessor-Treasurer websites. You can also use the WA Secretary of State website too -
Yudels
1418 Brazill LLC
Here is a list of Gesang properties in no particular order except how the Deed of Trust came up in the search. Look in the "Sales" tab of each property if their names aren't listed as owners and you can see what they bought and sold it for with the profit they made. Some after repairs they maybe made $25,000 and others were closer to $100,000 of profit. Let's say there is an average of $50,000 let's say they've made at least $700,000 plus monthly cashflow from rentals :
Personal Residence
Rental 1 - $200K from NTCC
Rental 2
Rental 3
Rental 4
Rental 5
Rental 6
Flip 1
Flip 2
Flip 3
Flip 4
Flip 5
Flip 6
Flip 7
Flip 8
Flip 9
Flip 10
Flip 11
Flip 12
Flip 13
Flip 14
Chief said:
"6 days a week they cram their propaganda down the throats of thousands and they never let up and what they are doing is wrong, so why should I let up?? "
DnA said:
I'm not tired, NO!!! I'm not tired yet!!! I'm not tired, NO!!! I'm not tired yet!!!!
Anonymous said:
"Here is a list of Gesang properties in no particular order except how the Deed of Trust came up in the search. Look in the "Sales" tab of each property if their names aren't listed as owners and you can see what they bought and sold it for with the profit they made."
DnA said:
You have got to be kidding me. This dude is a real-estate tycoon. Gesang didn't need RWD to bail him out by paying $200,000 for a piece of property. Gesang was buying up real-estate, probably had the building crew fixing it up for pennies and flipping, renting and making huge profits. Some of these profits are 6 figure profits. You got to be kidding me. In ten years this guy has made millions off of real estate. I have no idea if he's doing it as a front for Davis but he is living in a house that cost's over 1/3rd of a million bucks. He doesn't need Davis to bail him out. Come on!!
Wake up people. How does anyone look at this and justify the way the ntcc leadership bleeds people dry for every dime they have. This is one dude with 5 business names that he operates under. I wonder how many other people he has that operate under other aliases gobbling up foreclosures and flipping them for 300% profit in some cases? These people are incredible.
This stuff here is enough to make you want to puke. These people have bled us dry for years and years as if we were the only source of income. While they were fleecing us, they were also buying foreclosures and making huge profits hand over fist. I've heard Olson preach if you take a paperclip that doesn't belong to you, it's stealing. What a bunch of sorry hypocrites. They are a bunch of no good scoundrels.
These people are exceedingly, filthy rich beyond what we ever thought. They have hidden behind their non-profit church status, while conning and conniving people out of their futures. I have no respect for them. None whatsoever.
Thank you for all the research and all of these links, anonymous. People need to be aware of this stuff.
DnA
I hope bruce smoth is reading all this.
Wow, this guy is the Donald Trump of Graham, he still lives in Graham somewhere in the back of the church as far as I could tell when I was there. I was told his home was modest, not like the Kekels or Davis's, of course this is heresay. But, this is really interesting, he is a flipper, he seems to buy distressed homes, probably uses the poor building crew guys and then sells the homes. Although, he may not do this anymore with our economy the way it is. I am sure he keeps tabs on good areas in the greater Tacoma area and then buys and sells them. In certain areas, the homes still sell. He is doing what he does best, real estate, this aint a God thing, its a money thing. This is sickening. He buys, uses people, and sells to make money. I remember him saying pray for his son he is very ill. Wow so he also left a wife somewhere to join up with the likes of these degenerates of society. This must have been alot of research on the part of the person who found it. Thanks for the time you spent, it just shows the length that the NTCC and its Ilk will go to to make money. Its about real estate and nothing more
That's what the NTCC is all about. It's a real-estate business. That's all it is. The money that comes into the church is used to perpetuate the business.
Chief
well, i was wondering what was a yudel.
gesang always mentioned he was jewish or something like that.
Yudel is a Jewish boy name. The meaning of the name is `Praised, Admired`.
Yes, Gezang is Jewish. He said it over the pulpit, the interesting thing is why use all these psuedo names if there is nothing shady going on. The tales of the NTCC just goes on and on. Astounding the stuff I have found out on this blog. Simply astounding.
Looks like twitter's all the rage in NTCC now:
http://twitter.com/#!/ElliotGesang
http://twitter.com/#!/KekelMc
http://twitter.com/#!/KinsonPhil
Check their "followers." Interestingly, lots of them have nothing on their twitter pages. Makes it look like there was some kind of mass enrollment to try and generate buzz. Scientologists all have bogus cookiecutter "personal" web pages like that.
The sinnernet is now fully entrenched in the org. RW raked me over the coals, and even terminated me from being a BS teacher allegedly over the internet, but now they're trying to socially network themselves into relevance. It won't work; the dirt on them is all over the web. Anyone savvy enough for twitter and facebook is surely a Googler too.
They probably want you to follow them on Twitter so they can follow you and see who you associate with on it. Then they get up and blast folks for still talking to all those people that left, blah, blah, blah.
Whoa...the one for Kinson said something about his wife having brain cancer. I don't wish that on anyone and whatever you think of him or his wife, that's something to pray about!
Aerial Photo of Campground
"Whoa...the one for Kinson said something about his wife having brain cancer."
Nah, read it again. He's soliciting prayer for another family where the wife has brain cancer. That's the way it appears to me, anyway.
I really hope the younger generation gets out while they can. Before they lose their energy and benefits that ntcc steals away.
Legally, CAN they get in trouble for their financial dealings or even for their breaking rules on military installations, i.e. commissary, door knocking on base, etc?
Highly improbable. They seem to have effectively escaped legal trouble for the better part of four decades. Churches get a lot of free passes in many regards not the least of which being tax evasion and sympathy from installation commanders. I don't know, well see. I'm not finished yet.
Chief
Today I was told that a while back, a minister named Crowell (I think that is the right spelling) talked to (Kekel the non-caring con artist) and told Kekel he was considering suicide. Guess what Kekel told him, it shouldn't be too hard to guess?
"Go ahead and do it"!!
So do you really believe that Kekel cares one lick about anyone? You should never tell someone who is considering suicide to "do it".
Kekel absolutely shouldn't be in a leadership position. He is not qualified to teach children's Sunday school say no less lead grown men and women. So when someone is thinking about suicide the right answer is to tell them to "do it"? Boy is the NTCC one seriously screwed up organization/cult. If Kekel tried that with a soldier in the military, he would be relieved immediately.
Chief
Chief said:
Today I was told that a while back, a minister named Crowell (I think that is the right spelling) talked to (Kekel the non-caring con artist) and told Kekel he was considering suicide. Guess what Kekel told him, it shouldn't be too hard to guess?
"Go ahead and do it"!!
So do you really believe that Kekel cares one lick about anyone? You should never tell someone who is considering suicide to "do it".
DnA said,
Not sure about all of the details of this incident, or when it happened, but I hope this brother can realize that it's not God that doesn't care about him, it's only Kekel and Davis and the ntcc. This makes me so sick. I can't understand or comprehend somebody saying something so uncaring. This is not something that a Christian would say to someone. This is not something any person with common decency would say to a person contemplating suicide.
Kekel is a sick man and devoid of decency and compassion. Our prayers are with the Crowells and we hope this is not something very recent. If it is and you are reading this, there are people that really do care. That bunch in Graham are not the people that need to be giving spiritual advice. They need to get right themselves.
It's so important to get our brains unscrambled from ntcc doctrine and see it for what it is. It's poison that slowly destroys all of our joy and happiness. The sooner you can get away from this bunch and realize that God is not like them, the better off you will become.
DnA
DnA, it happened a while back. Probably a couple years, not sure about the time frame other than I'm confident that it wasn't recently. I deleted my first post and re-quoted my statement on your post because I'd made more mistakes then I wanted to keep posted. That's the reason I deleted your message and re-posted it. I didn't change anything you wrote, just what I wrote.
Chief
I remember he was talked about in a conference about how that he had gotten in a very terrible financial situation, details and all.
Anonymous said...
I remember he was talked about in a conference about how that he had gotten in a very terrible financial situation, details and all.
Chief said...
Yeah, that's a good way to help the problem; just talk about him during conference. Great approach. No doubt the NTCC and their sorry system significantly contributed to the guy getting into such a terrible financial situation. People, don't follow the NTCC church building system. 99 out of 100 times you'll lose and the NTCC leadership will do little more than talk about you during conference and you know it.
Chief's rules:
Rule number 1: Don't believe RWD when he tells you that you're taking over an "established" work. There may only be 5 faithful people where you are going, if that.
Rule number 2: Don't send one dime to Graham if you are the pastor of a church. RWD pays tithe to his own church, (assuming he pays tithe at all) why shouldn't you. Keep the money that comes into your church in your church and Graham ain't your church.
Rule number 3: Don't be so ignorant as to believe that you don't need health insurance or life insurance and that God via the NTCC is going to take care of you and your family. That is ignorant and irresponsible and your are not taking care of your family if you ignore these things and the Bible says you are worse than an infidel.
Rule number 4: If you don't have at least $100,000 of your own money in the bank and you can't maintain that balance, you have no business quitting your job. Yes the NTCC tells you to do stupid things but that doesn't mean you have to.
Rule number 5: Don't use one dime of your personal money to build an NTCC church. The NTCC leadership will not pay you back but they most certainly will own the church building you put your money into and they'll still charge you rent on the church building. This brings up my next rule.
Rule number 6: Don't pay the NTCC rent on a church building they own. The fact that they own the building is enough profit. Your church probably collected money for years to purchase the building so you shouldn't pay rent on a building. If your church can't afford to buy a building, don't accept money from the NTCC. Only purchase the building if you have enough money in your church savings/escrow/general fund or whatever else you want to call it. This brings up my next rule:
Rule number 7: Don't fund one dime into an escrow account that you don't have control of. If the NTCC leadership doesn't trust you to do right by the money that "YOUR" church put into an account, why should you trust that they'll do what is right.
Rule number 8: Don't allow RWD, Kekel or Olson to talk to you just any old way. Respect is a two way street. If they want to blast you, nail em right back. If RWD wants to call you out openly, then do the same to him in front of a crowd and he'll stop that mess.
Rule number 9: Don't let RWD bully you into pioneering a church or going somewhere you don't want to go. RWD didn't want the Reeds to be anywhere near their family but he sure keeps the Kekel's close now doesn't he? This brings up rule number 10 and my final rule.
Rule number 10: Don't ostracize your biological family. After you been in the NTCC and treated your family like crap for years, they'll often still love you and be there for you. Such is not the case with the NTCC leadership. They'll tell you where to find the door if you legitimately attempt to openly follow one of my rules.
Chief
No doubt part of the reason bro Crowell became suicidal had to do with the fact that the NTCC ringwraiths broke up his marriage for no reason and he was trying to deal with the emotional devastation they had thus visited on him. Even after this undeserved shafting, false guilt motivated him to contact Mike "just do it" Kekel for spiritual help. He explained his situation and asked for help, only to be encouraged to follow through with self termination. What kind of counselor doesn't take sucicide talk seriously? Not the legitimate kind. But these phonies don't know anything about helping people; they're focused solely on their own profit.
Scoundrels, charlatans, abusers, narcissists. Sorely deficient human beings. If anyone should be taking their advice, it's them. I hope Matt comes on here and shares all the sick details. They need to be known.
Those are some good rules, Chief. No worries on the re-post. :-)
Chef wrote..."Guess what Kekel told him, it shouldn't be too hard to guess? "Go ahead and do it"!!"
Gregory writes...The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Senior Pastor Kekel is a clone of Senior Pastor Davis (in his thinking and actions).
Yet, on their website they have links for "Counseling" and "Prayer Requests?"
Gregory
"Preaching a Living Christ to a Lost and Dying World"
but if you're a ntcc minister for umpteen years and feel suicidal, kekel will tell you
"Go ahead and do it"!
Wow and Wow! So that is kekel's idea of how to love the brethren?
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