A while back, Mike Kekel wrote an article on his blog called "Ain't Misbehaven". I'm astounded that Mike would even publish and openly display such information. Approximately one year ago I posted an article referencing what Mike wrote titled "The Irony Of It All". Directly below is a link which will take you straight to that article. Anyway, I wanted to repost what M.C. Kekel wrote because I'm still amazed that he'd be so careless as to throw his father-in-law, RWD under the bus in such a fashion. Either that, or it's part of yet another New Testament Christian Church master plan to allow in what they've called "compromise" for decades.
M.C. Kekel wrote and I quote...
"I do not make the rules, and have only recently had opportunity to affect them. In the past I have only been in the unfortunate position of having to enforce them. That doesn't mean I agreed with them. If so be they were mistakes, they weren't mine. As for the church organization? I have nothing to do with policies and doctrines of the organization concerning things like TV (which ministers aren't to have if they carry license in NTCC- unless it is solely as a gaming monitor or something, and not connected to TV input) and couldn't change them if I wanted to. If that gets changed, Rev. Olson will have to do it by mandate or through board approval. I have no such power. Even in the Bible School realm I am limited."
"My influence on the bible school rules has only been to lighten them, not increase them. Further, since I wasn't a bible school student during that time, I was not UNDER those rules. The sports rule was not bible based to begin with, and was for bible school students. Not me."
Chief said...
These statements absolutely amaze me!!!!!! They're jaw dropping. I don't know how anyone in the New Testament Christian Church could ignore these statements if they have a conscience or any intelligence or common sense. Do you really trust the NTCC leadership with the task of guiding you to heaven? Really? There are two people who are key leaders in the NTCC; namely R.W. Davis and M.C. Kekel. These statements (written by one NTCC executive board member, namely M.C. Kekel) made a complete mockery of the Founder of the NTCC, namely R.W. Davis. Who do you think came up with all the rules and or endorsed every last one? RWD!!! Basically Mike wrote, (and of course I'm paraphrasing here) that he was the unlucky scapegoat who had the dubious distinction of having to enforce a bunch of bogus rules that he didn't agree with and had nothing to do with in the first place. Boy if that ain't throwing RWD, and the rest of the general board under the bus, I don't know what in the world is?
Listen here, armed with this information, I'd have no reason to believe that God inspired one single rule that RWD ever spewed out of his big fat mouth. "Ask permission to go visit who"? "Ask permission to stop where"? "Ask permission to accept a job"? "Ask permission to date or talk to who"? "Stand against the wall just to talk to a woman"? "You said it's a sin for all women to work"? "Where is that rule found in the Bible, Proverbs 31"? "REALLY, ARE YOU SERIOUS, ARE YOU KIDDING ME"?
Obey them that have rule over you? When I know that they have a history of coming up with a bunch of bogus rules that Kekel doesn't even agree with, and he considers himself to be unfortunate for even having to enforce them? REALLY? Huh!! Never again. I'm a grown man with a family to look out for. You can follow a bunch of stupid rules and con artists if you want to but I'm not the one.
Chief
P.S. I wouldn't follow M.C. Kekel or RWD to find a toilet (say no less as spiritual leaders) if I had diarrhea.
204 comments:
1 – 200 of 204 Newer› Newest»Did you pay attention to the rule that clown wrote. I actually just picked up on this one and I've probably read Kekel's statement about 1000 times.
"concerning things like TV which ministers aren't to have if they carry license in NTCC- unless it is solely as a gaming monitor or something, and not connected to TV input"
Boy if that ain't a stupid rule. Kekel is apposed to rules but he advocates this one? You can have a TV but it can only be used for gaming or quote, "something"? What is "something"? Watching DVDs like Grant did in Kekel's house or like Kinson did in a serviceman's home? Use it to watch a commercial advertising for the NTCC which is common now? Use it to watch an NTCC Youtube video? Are those some of the things that Kekel was referring to as "something"?
So I'm supposed to advocated or buy off on that rule after Kekel has already stated that other NTCC rules are bogus. How in the world can NTCCers ignore this thread? You have to actually shut off your brain completely to overlook this statement that Mike Kekel made. Good googldy moogldy there are some suckers in this world. It's absolutely unbelievable. After reading this statement, there is no way on Gods green earth that I could stick around the NTCC. It places every rule the NTCC has ever dreamed up or taught in question don't you think?
RWD and Kekel must sit back and practically die laughing when they read Kekel's statement. Then they'll stand right up in front of the church and convince a bunch of suckers that it's all justified.
Chief
Also, TVs which "ministers" aren't to have if they carry a license? So if you are a minister in the NTCC, but you don't carry a license, it's ok to have and watch a TV? I was always taught that NO ONE IN THE NTCC was supposed to have a TV. Every NTCC pastor I ever had which by the way was a total of 6 taught that you were not to have a TV and it didn't matter who you were. Mike Kekel is playing everyone in the NTCC like a bunch of suckers which unfortunately many of them are. You all got to be out of your mind to buy off on that statement.
Chief
He is not only a cult leader, but a sad, cowardly, pathetic one at that!!! He is a classic coward and blame shifter. This man has not an once of leadership ability!!
TB
I can tell you chief, that there's probably more bad stuff in those dvd's in the red boxes than watching regular television or "devilvision"
I was never one to watch that much tv, but I like the news and staying in touch with what's going on.
I heard a preacher one time in using anecdotes about how models looked so trampy and so sensual, and he said: like cheryl tieggs, this model was from the
80's chief!
Another said that he didn't know who whitney houston was!
NOw chief, I don't know if he was pulling our leg or what, but come on, are they really that out of touch!
I remember in the conferences the preachings of mck were all about movies that probably he'd watched with grant.
One that I remember was about the star wars one, and he went on and on giving the details of how the mother ship this and that.
I wonder what movie he is gonna use for this conference!
I remember Kekel preaching about Cheech and Chong in one conference, which was a rated R movie that promoted sex and drugs. He's always been a compromising hypocrite and for some reason people keep praising him and ignoring his hypocrisy. If you are a minister in the ntcc and you are doing the best you can and trying to follow all the rules and doing what you know is right, you are like a good biscuit at the bottom of a gigantic slop bucket.
I hope that at some point you realize that God gave you eyes to see and a conscience of your own to discern right from wrong. I know that many of you ntcc ministers believe that Rodger and Mike are some really swell guys and although they project an outward image that is clean and wholesome, you have to see that whats underneath the shell is hypocrisy and phoniness. If you keep turning a blind eye to this, you will end up being just as corrupt as all the other biscuits sinking in the mire of a cesspool that will never become clean.
The best way out of that slop bucket is to walk out on your own. I believe that Chief is right about Davis being in on this move toward compromise. If Davis was half the man he claims to be he wouldn't sit back and allow Kekel to throw him under the bus, and if he really believed in the rules that he preached as Gospel, he wouldn't back down from them.
It was never about holiness or right living. It's always been about control and the greed and covetousness of money and power. They probably do sit up there in their board meetings laughing and joking about how brainwashed they have everyone. I'm sure that while they are driving by your city in their recreational vehicle on their way to some undisclosed location to take a vacation, they laugh at all you suckers out there that are working yourself into an early grave. While the future of your family and the financial security that could be yours, goes to buy them another tank of Gas or plane ticket so they can do their thing.
God bless you sir. You are such a blessing. We took up an offering for you because we love and appreciate you. Is there anything else we can do for you? Please stop buy and fellowship with us so we can cherish the memories of you gracing our presence.
DnA
Right, I remember Olsen preaching at a conference that he wasn't going to the movie theatre and he wasn't going to bring the movie theatre home. Nothing but Confussion.
TVs were universally condemned, along with those who owned or watched them. People were so wigged out about the "devilvision" that they'd turn them to face the wall in their motel rooms during conference. Phil Kinson once preached that when Lot pitched his tent toward Sodom, the opening was probably 19 inches diagonal (he didn't mention the DVD exemption, though). After all that TV bashing, I was astonished when, during fellowship after church once, RW stated to those of us up at the Big Cheese table that any time he stayed at a motel, he tuned in to CNN!
I started smelling the coffee about then, and not long afterward removed myself from NTCC's spiritually destructive environment. Now I have a 40" diagonal tent opening! Maybe Phil can come by with one of his DVDs...
This is the song I dedicate to ntcc. Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOqk_q4NLLI
Chief, you are 100% right! kekel kicked davis under the bus and kekel is the biggest hypocrite in the ntcc! kekel is the primary source of the compromise from the gospel according to davis, because it is kekel who opened the door to the movie watching, the sporting events, attending music concerts, disney vacations and on and on. I am not saying that these things are wrong, but when you preach that others should not do them, but you do them yourself and try to hide your actions, then that is wrong and that is exactly what kekel have done and all with the blessings and gifts from his doting father-in-law! It is just sickening!
Anon said,
"I remember Olsen preaching at a conference that he wasn't going to the movie theatre and he wasn't going to bring the movie theatre home. Nothing but Confussion."
I say,
I remember that conference. Just as Kekel threw RWD under the bus, he did the same to Olson. Olson just got done saying that statement while preaching or exhorting, and what else could he have been talking about but dvd's?
Then, Kekel gets up right behind him, and says he's not talking about dvd's!!!! What in the world was he talking about then??!!
Total confusion!!!!!!!!
Did Kekel make Olson look stupid, or did Kekel make Kekel look stupid!????
So many of the NTCC rules are not bible based, they are Davis based, and we just went along like a bunch of zombies with no brains in our head to question these so called "rules." In the end we have really only ourselves to blame. We made the conscious decision to be lead by these so called "men of God." I mean no disrespect to anyone, I too was one of them. I "was" but no more.
Thank God that we no longer are under their mind control. We were suckers, for years and decades but at some point we found our way out. What a way to waste a bunch of years, but it's a major accomplishment to be able to talk about it as past tense. If more people see it for what it is and openly share their experiences it can help others realize how fruitless their existence in the ntcc is.
There is a sucker born every day and the ntcc has a knack for finding them. Once you get sucked in to the swirling vortex, it's hard to get out. If you do get out, you lose a lot but at least you are free. I wouldn't trade my freedom for bondage again. There are a lot of things that I am not sure about and I know that learning is a continual process but the one thing I know is that freedom is something that I can't live without. To be in bondage to a group of tyrants that are unscrupulous, unethical and spiritually bankrupt is a waste of life.
DnA
But, Senior Pastor Kekel does make the rules (although, Senior Pastor Kekel has also told us the rules were/are only guidelines).
He makes the rules because he has been on the Executive Board since long before I was a gleam in my first NTCC Pastor's eyes.
He has the power of his vote to effect change (or stop change); although, only a majority vote is needed. Of course, Pastor Davis often told us from the pulpit that if the board members do not vote the way he wants, they will be off the board. Since Senior Pastor Kekel is still on the board, he has never voted nay.
Although, Pastor Davis has also said that he would have no one on the broad who wasn't a success in the ministry. Yet, Revs Olson, Kekel, Johnson, and DiFrancesco (to name maybe a few) are still on the board.
Like you Jeff, I was shocked when I read what Senior Pastor Kekel wrote.
Vic, when we would put Pastor Davis up in a hotel room in Korea, the Koreans would have the TV on when you first entered the room (as a courtesy, I guess). The first time I turned the TV off, and apologized. Guess what Pastor Davis said? That’s right…”Turn it back on.” Yikes.
So many conflicting messages coming out of Graham, while all is simultaneously being done by the Holy Ghost, while never missing God.
In His Service,
Gregory
Gregory wrote...
Like you Jeff, I was shocked when I read what Senior Pastor Kekel wrote.
Jeff said...
I'm still shocked but no longer because of what Kekel wrote. His statement by itself should be evidence enough for anyone to realize it's time to get out of the NTCC. I'm shocked because many still won't leave. How could you trust a guy like Kekel or RWD? I couldn't allow someone like that to lead me anywhere. Kekel is the poorest leader I've ever known. The NTCC is just a big farce filled with a bunch of fakes.
Ashmore and his wife are a couple losers also. They try to keep the fact that they have certain grandchildren a secret. They don't even want pictures of the grandchildren to be posted because they don't want anyone to know about their son's history. They don't want people to realize that they weren't good enough influences on Jerry and that Jerry was a tramp. I respect Jerry way more than them. At least Jerry is not trying to front like he is some holy roller when he's not. RWD was a tramp for years but the difference between he and Jerry was that RWD was a tramp who kept preaching judgment on everyone while he was a tramp. Yeah, the Ashmores are a couple creeps. Ask them about their grand kids and see if you can get a straight answer out of them? You have as much chance of winning the lottery as you do of getting a straight answer out of the Ashmores if you try to find our about their grandchildren. I'm telling you, all those senior NTCC leaders are a complete joke but it ain't no joke how they con so many people out of so much money. It also ain't no joke how they steal so many years from so many peoples lives.
Chief
What is Ashmores sons history? If they have grandchildren illigitamately it is not the granchildrens fault. What is this about? Yet another skeleton in the NTCC closet right???
The Ashmore's son liked to have sex; with different women. No big deal in itself, but the Ashmores are ashamed of him and his children which happen to be their grandchildren. You see the Ashmores want to keep their "super-spiritual" image up but because their son went prodigal so to speak, he's become and embarrassment to them. Consequently they want to keep the whole debacle hush-hush because it proves they are not as "super-spiritual" as they'd like to portray. You know why?
1 Tim 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1 Tim 3:5(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
Ashmore knows this so he wants to keep it all a secret so he can continue to portray himself to be someone he's not!!! Ashmore and his wife couldn't keep their own son in check so how in the world can he be truly qualified to lead a church? Hey, I didn't write the scriptures so do get mad at me. Get mad a Paul for the letter he wrote to Timothy. Ashmore ain't qualified to oversee a dog say no less a would-be Christian congregation. RWD quotes 1 Tim 3:5 enough so why can't I? Same applies to Kekel. He couldn't even get his son to attend the NTCS and the kid is attending a Catholic college for crying out loud. Kekel? Disqualified according to 1 Tim 3:5!!! Once again, I didn't write it. Hey, the NTCC leaders can be all nitpicky with the scriptures so why can't I?
Same with RWD, Kekel, Kinson and Olson. They are all phonies. I speak this boldly to everyone; THEY ARE ALL PHONIES!!!
Cha Chief
Question for everybody, If you took away ALL the ministers and bible school students and their families out of the Graham church, how many people do you think they would have in church service?
100
Probably 14!! Every time a member gets dedicated they start preaching more about the calling of God (Bible School) Soon that member goes off to school.
Gregory said:
"So many conflicting messages coming out of Graham, while all is simultaneously being done by the Holy Ghost, while never missing God."
DnA said:
I think he never missed God because he never had God. If you go back as far as the known history of R-Dub will take you and there is no account of him being anything but a Control Freak. Is there anyone that's ever seen him win a soul?
Why is it that RDW always seemed to have something to prove? He would always huff and puff and snort as he established his own dominance from the lectern. Making statements like "I can't remember the last time I sinned", makes you wonder. Can he remember the last lie he told? I guess if you sin with such frequency it's hard to keep track of all your sins, but statements like this are clearly made to convince the masses that you are the Alpha Dog. "You didn't vote me in, and you are not going to vote me out" is another one of many quotes that points to a need to convince people that he and he only was in charge. Why the need to throw his weight around all the time?
Did he miss God when he ignored all the warnings about Ron Denis and watched helplessly as the split took place? Did he miss God when Kekel threw him under the bus by not agreeing with all of his rules and stating that he was in the unfortunate position to have to enforce them? After all, they were never Kekel's rules.
If you decide not to go to the bus stop, you didn't miss the bus, you just decided never to try to catch it. It's always been about money and nothing to do with souls. If there is one thing that Davis has never missed, it's a chance to make a buck. He's never missed an opportunity to profit off of other peoples hard work and giving. He doesn't miss many opportunities to bloviate about how great he is. He hasn't missed many opportunities to jack people up either. But for him to say that he's never missed God is a blatant lie that makes you wonder if he's ever had what he's claimed to never have missed.
DnA
D&A, very good post! Yes, that is the question. Did old Double Standard Davis ever have God in the first place or has he always been a very crafty con-artist? He has definitely always been a con artist and I don't think he ever had God but it is remotely possible that God used him. Having said that, God used Balaam also but I don't think he was the kind of guy you'd want to stick around for very long. Balaam taught Balak to cast a stumbling-block before the Children of Israel and Davis has done the same with the NTCC. Here is the scripture that describes Davis and his work:
Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Davis, the Pharisees, Balaam. All very similar. The main difference is Davis and the Pharisees didn't know God like Balaam did. Not even close.
Rev 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel.
Davis has done the same with all his false doctrine and his greed.
I wonder when the rest of the NTCC will ever open their eyes and figure out that Davis and Kekel are a hoax? This thread proves it with irrefutable evidence. Kekel's very own words. You can't believe a word they say.
Chief
DnA said "If there is one thing that Davis has never missed, it's a chance to make a buck. He's never missed an opportunity to profit off of other peoples hard work and giving. He doesn't miss many opportunities to bloviate about how great he is. He hasn't missed many opportunities to jack people up either."
Don, that was an awesome post. And the congregation said....?
Anon said "I wonder what movie he is gonna use for this conference!"
how-bout this; Instead of having that piece of crap Jerry Duran come in to the campground, so everybody can embrace him like a returning missionary. They can have him preach the last night service. Wow! That would be special.
Then everybody can go back to their respective works and know how to take somebody's wife from them and make a bunch of little bastards, and then return to the next conference and have everyone embrace you. Sounds like a good conference to me.
""You didn't vote me in, and you are not going to vote me out" is another one of many quotes that points to a need to convince people that he and he only was in charge."
He might say that, but it isn't true. We did vote him in; I was there at the conference where it occurred. According to Missouri law, it appears he can be voted out in similar fashion:
Missouri Revised Statutes
Chapter 355
Nonprofit Corporation Law
Section 355.346
August 28, 2011
Removal of directors.
355.346. 1. The members may, without cause, remove one or more directors elected by them.
2. If a director is elected by a class, chapter or other organizational unit, or by region or other geographic grouping, the director may be removed only by the members of that class, chapter, unit or grouping.
3. Except as provided in subsection 9 of this section, a director may be removed under subsection 1 of this section or subsection 2 of this section only if the number of votes cast to remove the director would be sufficient to elect the director at a meeting to elect directors.
4. If cumulative voting is authorized, a director may not be removed if the number of votes, or if the director was elected by a class, chapter, unit or grouping of members, the number of votes of that class, chapter, unit or grouping, sufficient to elect the director under cumulative voting is voted against the director's removal.
5. A director elected by members may be removed by the members only at a meeting called for the purpose of removing the director and the meeting notice must state that the purpose, or one of the purposes, of the meeting is removal of the director.
6. In computing whether a director is protected from removal under subsection 2, 3 or 4 of this section, it should be assumed that the votes against removal are cast in an election for the number of directors of the class to which the director to be removed belonged on the date of that director's election.
7. An entire board of directors may be removed under the provisions of subsections 1 to 5 of this section.
8. A director elected by the board may be removed without cause by the vote of two-thirds of the directors then in office or such greater number as is set forth in the articles or bylaws; but a director elected by the board to fill the vacancy of a director elected by the members may be removed without cause by the members, but not the board.
9. If, at the beginning of a director's term on the board, the articles or bylaws provide that the director may be removed for missing a specified number of board meetings, the board may remove the director for failing to attend the specified number of meetings. The director may be removed only if a majority of the directors then in office vote for the removal.
More interesting reading:
Missouri Revised Statutes
Chapter 355
Nonprofit Corporation Law
Section 355.416
August 28, 2011
Director's conflict of interest.
355.416. 1. A conflict of interest transaction is a transaction with the corporation in which a director of the corporation has a material interest. A conflict of interest transaction is not voidable or the basis for imposing liability on a noncompensated director if the transaction was not unfair to the corporation at the time it was entered into or is approved as provided in subsection 2 or 3 of this section.
2. A transaction in which a noncompensated director of a public benefit or religious corporation has a conflict of interest may be approved:
(1) In advance by the vote of the board of directors or a committee of the board if:
(a) The material facts of the transaction and the director's interest are disclosed or known to the board or committee of the board; and
(b) The directors approving the transaction in good faith reasonably believe that the transaction is not unfair to the corporation; or
(2) Before or after it is consummated by obtaining approval of the:
(a) Attorney general; or
(b) The circuit court in an action in which the attorney general is joined as a party.
3. A transaction in which a director of a mutual benefit corporation has a conflict of interest may be approved if:
(1) The material facts of the transaction and the director's interest were disclosed or known to the board of directors or a committee of the board and the board or committee of the board authorized, approved, or ratified the transaction; or
(2) The material facts of the transaction and the director's interest were disclosed or known to the members and they authorized, approved, or ratified the transaction.
4. For purposes of subsections 2 and 3 of this section, a conflict of interest transaction is authorized, approved, or ratified if it receives the affirmative vote of a majority of the directors on the board or on the committee, who have no direct or indirect interest in the transaction, but a transaction may not be authorized, approved, or ratified under this section by a single director. If a majority of the directors on the board who have no direct or indirect interest in the transaction vote to authorize, approve or ratify the transaction, a quorum is present for the purpose of taking action under this section. The presence of, or a vote cast by, a director with a material interest in the transaction does not affect the validity of any action taken under subdivision (1) of subsection 2 of this section or subdivision (1) of subsection 3 of this section if the transaction is otherwise approved as provided in subsection 2 of this section or subsection 3 of this section.
5. For purposes of subdivision (2) of subsection 3 of this section, a conflict of interest transaction is authorized, approved or ratified by the members if it receives a majority of the votes entitled to be counted under this subsection. Votes cast by a director who has a material interest in the transaction may not be counted in a vote of members to determine whether to authorize, approve or ratify a conflict of interest transaction under subdivision (2) of subsection 3 of this section. The vote of these members, however, is counted in determining whether the transaction is approved under other sections of this chapter. A majority of the voting power, whether or not present, that is entitled to be counted in a vote on the transaction under this subsection constitutes a quorum for the purpose of taking action under this section.
6. The articles, bylaws, or a resolution of the board may impose additional requirements on conflict of interest transactions.
Terms of directors, generally.
355.331. 1. The articles or bylaws shall specify the terms of directors. Except for designated or appointed directors, the terms of directors may not exceed six years. In the absence of any term specified in the articles or bylaws, the term of each director shall be one year. Directors may be elected for successive terms.
2. A decrease in the number of directors or term of office does not shorten an incumbent director's term.
3. Except as provided in the articles or bylaws:
(1) The term of a director filling a vacancy in the office of a director elected by members expires at the next election of directors by members; and
(2) The term of a director filling any other vacancy expires at the end of the unexpired term which such director is filling.
4. Despite the expiration of a director's term, the director continues to serve until the director's successor is elected, designated or appointed and qualifies, or until there is a decrease in the number of directors.
Member's inspection of records.
355.826. 1. Subject to subsection 3 of section 355.831, a member, or resident of a class of residents who have paid into the corporation for services or other charges over fifty percent of the corporation's operating expenses, is entitled to inspect and copy, subject to subsections 2 and 3 of this section, at a reasonable time and location specified by the corporation, any of the records of the corporation required by this act* if the member or resident gives the corporation written notice or a written demand at least five business days before the date on which the member or resident wishes to inspect and copy.
2. Subject to subsection 5 of this section, a member or resident of a class of residents who have paid into the corporation for services or other charges over fifty percent of the corporation's operating expenses is entitled to inspect and copy, at a reasonable time and reasonable location specified by the corporation, any of the following records of the corporation if the member or resident gives the corporation written notice at least five business days before the date on which the member or resident wishes to inspect and copy:
(1) Any records required to be maintained under subsection 1 of section 355.821, to the extent not subject to inspection under subsection 1 of section 355.826; and
(2) Financial statements of the corporation.
3. A member or resident may inspect and copy the records identified in this section only if:
(1) The member or resident describes with reasonable particularity the purpose and the records the member or resident desires to inspect; and
(2) The records are directly connected with this purpose.
4. This section does not affect:
(1) The right of a member to inspect records under section 355.271 or, if the member is in litigation with the corporation, to the same extent as any other litigant; or
(2) The power of a court, independently of the provisions of this chapter, to compel the production of corporate records for examination.
5. The articles or bylaws of a public benefit corporation which is a church or convention or association of churches may limit or abolish the right of a member under this section to inspect and copy any corporate record. This subsection shall not apply to residents or a class of residents of a religious corporation when such residents have paid into the corporation for services or other charges in excess of fifty percent of the corporation's operating expenses.
6. When a corporation has no members and makes provision for a self-perpetuating board of directors, any recipient or beneficiary of the services or activities of such corporation may inspect and copy the books and records of such corporation under the same conditions and rights as provided for a member. A recipient or beneficiary may designate an agent or attorney for the purpose of conducting such inspection and making such copies.
An interesting question posted by some xer was, if you took all the ministers and ministers families and BS students out, how many do you think would be left in the Graham church?
This is a interesting question, one which I have asked myself many many times, in Graham "All" the folks living on the grounds are ministers and their families, and they ain't going anywhere, cheap rent, employment, friendship, if you want to call it that, but I would also say less than 75 people would be left, not including Davis and his ilk. I am talking members that are just die hard, they know all the corruption, but just don't want to lose their circle of friends within the Graham church, because as we all should know, once you leave the Graham church, they will have nothing to do with you. I would say more like 75 die hard folks that just stay for the sheer loss of their so called Chistian family, and they don't want to lose this close circle of friends. That's it, I can say with the utmost certainty. Do you want to know why I am sure? I am right there in it.
An immediate loss of one's entire circle of friends does give pause. We had to swallow hard when we made that decision, but it has proven to be the correct one. No way would I ever return to that kind of oppression. We found out who our real friends were, anyway. Turns out the Graham circle was way overrated.
Right, so, take away ALL minister's and their families, take away all bs student's and their families, that wipes out the entire choir and band. This leaves us with about 75 people to go "bothering people" on Saturday with. How many of the 75 wouldn't even make it because they get picked up by the ministers and bs students. That might knock some people off of their high horse and actually know what pioneering a church is all about. It sickens me of the puke that comes out of mck mouth when it comes to things concerning finances and the church.
Vic Said:
" We had to swallow hard when we made that decision, but it has proven to be the correct one. No way would I ever return to that kind of oppression. We found out who our real friends were, anyway."
DnA said:
Looking back you realize that many that we called friends in the ntcc were really not. There are still people that I care about that are in the ntcc, but true friends will not abandon you because you no longer attend their church. They are truly living in oppression.
When you think about a church having power over who you are friends with, and setting boundaries that dictate to you at which point you can no longer be friendly towards someone, it's like living a bad dream and never waking up.
The ntcc preaches and teaches a selfish doctrine. Could you imagine if the military used the same model in battle? Every man for himself. If your best friend gets shot, leave him and save yourself. No man left behind is the opposite of what happens in the ntcc. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. You'd have to rip John 15:13 right out of the bible. They will not only "let you go", they will give you a little push and you are not welcome back. Sorry if you are looking for the prodigal experience, the ntcc is the wrong church.
I agree that you are much better off without friends like this. They won't be there for you when you really need them. Fair weather friends are temporary and superficial. Real friends will not watch as you fall in battle and leave you there to die. Ntcc friends are there for you, only if it's convenient. Your ntcc pastor will not leave the other 99 to bring you back into the fold either. You're better off without them.
DnA
Vic said "You'd have to rip John 15:13 right out of the bible."
Good take Vic. To be in the ntcc you not only have to rip out John 15:13, you have to rip out whole sections of the bible. Ntcc is filled with nothing but fake, phony, impostors, who are filled with so much pride that if Jesus personified himself and wanted in their crooked org. they wouldn't let him in because he doesn't meet Dubs criteria for being a "Christian".
R.W. Davis, M.C. Kekel, J.H. Olson, J.R. Ashmore, J.L. Johnson, L.D. Jones, T.A. Tieman, P.A. Kinson, George Jordan, and John Difrancesco are NOTHING MORE than modern day Pharisees. In the words of a Charlie Daniels song "New Phariee's" they've got a fatal disease. Here is a youtube link to the song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3nChyCljdU.
In another song he says they're bible is a checkbook and they're church is the bank. Praying to the wrong god. Youtube link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPIikJT64Sc
That southern boy nails it in these songs.
I like that. They are all crooks and you named them.
Chief
I agree with all that has been said regarding what happens when you leave the NTCC. These people who stay want to keep their friends that they have made within the NTCC, however, as I have found out once you leave for whatever your reasons are, no calls, no how are you doing? nothing...Now that is what I call true Christian friends? Wow, I was really blind, to think I had friends who really cared, apparently not. Is this what the NTCC teaches? Apparently it is.
Not Alone by Jamie Grace"> A song if you need some lifting up.
network 23
Anonymous said...
Is this what the NTCC teaches?
Chief said...
You better believe that is what they teach because they have a Pharisee holier than thou attitude. Luke 18:12. "I pay tithes of all that I possess". That is the NTCC all the way. I can't stand the NTCC mentality. Judgmental, holier than thou, super spiritual but possessing no common decency crooks.
Chief
Very nice toon, Network 23.
Then Ruth Graham would be cast to hell by davis for having short hair. Does davis put down Billy Graham too?
The reason you mention Heidi, is she a former member or someone as a point of reference?
Watch the video.
No, thanks I am good.
And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
With all due respect double-d, "300 people raised from the dead" come on, please tell me you don't believe that line of garbage!
Did you see these with your own eyes?? or is it just hearsay?
TB
heidi baker ??? I watched and listened to part of the video. This doesn't make her any great spiritual person.
i doubt she saw jesus. I think the muslims that live without a bible sometimes saw jesus more than her.
Muslims who had visions of Jesus
Machine Gun Preacher (based on a real person) is also helping kids. He ma be a christian but I don't think he's some super duper spirtual person.
Machine Gun Preacher trailer
oh yeah, network 23 posted the above comment and is also posting what follows....
Well, I found out for about $300 you can take a class and hear interviews from heidi and other "men of gawd" and learn about dead raisings.
I don't doubt that God can still raise the dead, but these people.... Really ?
Here is an excerpt from one of their pamphlets.
The first century church had the greatest mission expanse the world had ever seen.
One of the primary focuses of their apostolic teaching and experience was raising
the dead (Heb 6:1-2). David Hogan, Heidi Baker and Surprise Sithole are current
apostolic leaders that are seeing incredible fruit on the mission field in Mexico,
Mozambique and South Africa with the fruit of dead raisings. Global Awakening
had the honor and privilege of interviewing David and Heidi in Mozambique in
June 2009 and we captured some of the most amazing stories of miracles
including stories of people who rose from the dead! Pastor Surprise also taught at
the Global School of Supernatural Ministry in 2008 sharing his stories of raising
the dead.
Here is the whole pamphlet link:
Click. Note, the link is a search result.
You'll see a pdf file for the title :
Missions 101: Raising The Dead. It's the third result down.
Enjoy.
I gotta go shower from work as well as stop reading all this nonsense.
Oh yeah, the course materials for the class can only be purchased from their book store. Sound Familiar ?
This is Edison carter coming to you live and direct from network 23.
I confess. I hadn't seen Max Headroom so I had no clue who Edison Carter is. It's a great name for what you do here. :-)
Who is Edison Carter?
good research - haha.
here's one of the (if not the actual) pilot of the show showing the accident and creation of max and everything.
enjoy.
Max Headroom Show Pilot
Thanks for that--I was enmeshed in NTCC during Max's heyday, and only learned of him through incidental contact with popular culture back then, since the "devilvision" wasn't an option. I'm still catching up from the sixteen years of isolation in the borg.
Chief said..."The Ashmore's son liked to have sex..."
The only child that the Ashmore's have together is DiFrancesco's wife. Jerry Duran is Helen Duran's (Ashmore's wife) son from a previous relationship. Look at the old Bible School student handbook and she was a teacher back in NTCC's St. Louis days. There are children that the Ashmore's, Wrights and others will never publically acknowledge.
You better believe it. Because they are worried about trying to keep some old phony testimony.
Was messing around and tried viewing your blog with the flipcard style by Blogger. It looks pretty cool Jeff:
Flipcard View of True Stories
That is kind of cool. It allows you to flip through each thread quite easily. It's also missing certain things so it's a trade off.
That's true. It's missing the sidebar and gadgets at the bottom of the page. So it is a trade off. :o)
Whoever told anyone that Lorrie DiFrancesco and Jerry Duran do not have the same father is wrong. They do have the same father. Sister Ashmore was a widow. Rev. Ashmore is the stepfather of Lorrie and Jerry.
I have a question, apparently in Graham a minister and his family is required to be in EVERY service and bible study. What are the circumstances you could miss a service? Near death? I heard a sick child is not a reason? Is this true?
there is no excuse for missing a service period.
network 23.
Let me just say there are repercussions if a minister misses a service. When I was in the NTCC church in Atlanta, there were repercussions for missing services if you were supposed to be considered "faithful". If it happens to a Bible School student, he or she would likely get held back for an entire semester. Church members or other ministers, could get "benched" i.e. not allowed to perform any official duties in the church such as taking up the offering or leading song service or teaching Sunday School.
RWD is a slave drivin, control monger creep. There you have it as that pretty much explains things.
Chief
So, even though you are in Atlanta or wherever the rules are all the same. What do they do, keep a attendance sheet? Do they have people at each service taking attendance? How can they keep track of everyone?
You have to think of each church as a satellite mind control center. Each Pastor has been brainwashed to some degree. There are some that are sincere, but the system they are in will not allow them to function normally. Many of the Pastors modify the rules and tailor them to suite their own needs and desires. The ones that really get off on power are usually very strict narcissists and they have the most rules and the most control.
They know if you are not in church because their churches are small, (usually less than 50, seldom more than 100). Control freaks keep track of everyone that matters and sometimes that might be everyone that comes to church. Each attendee has potential tithe dollars to give. Soul winning lists are made up by the "faithful" soul winning members, and in "soul winning" meetings each "soul winner" is expected to give account for each soul on the list. It's kind of like a Military formation. The platoon Sergeant executes an about face and commands his squad leaders to report. Each Squad leader says all present and accounted for if every one is there and each platoon Sergeant relays that info to the First Sergeant, and it keeps going all the way up the chain of command.
But it all depends on how strict each individual Pastor is. They operate within a system that is set up for control. Sometimes you get a pastor that is cool and is just trying to survive the gauntlet like you are, but at a different level. If that cool pastor is in the system long enough he will eventually have to make some decisions. It's like being a lawyer. To win a law suite you have to argue your case against many other sleazy lawyers. To win your cases there is a line you have to cross and honesty and trust often are betrayed in this process. The more you cross that line, the more you become like all the sleazy lawyers you are arguing against. The same holds true in Politics. You end up with a bunch of sleazy pastors that have become part of the system, and all the ones that wake up and realize how corrupt things are, get out after decades of wasted time and money.
DnA said...
Each Pastor has been brainwashed to some degree.
Chief said...
This is not to refute your response Don and Ange but I'd have to say that each pastor has been brainwashed to a significantly considerable degree. Many of them do eventually get over the brainwashing but for the most part, when they go out to pastor a church, at that time they are very, very, very brainwashed. Many of them do and say some of the most absurd things that I've ever witnessed in my life. Brother I fell in the same category so I'm not just casting stones here. I know the way I looked at people while I was in the NTCC so dude, my brain was scrambled!!! Becoming brainwashed is a gradual transformation but nevertheless quite a steady transformation, and it takes a while to get your brain unscrambled.
Now concerning church attendance. There is no actual church attendance that takes place (for the most part) I have seen exceptions. Just like a Platoon Sergeant knows the people in his or her platoon, NTCC pastors know who the "regulars" are in his church. Notice I emphasized "regulars" also known as "faithfuls". These are the people who attend every single service. Well, when one of these people is missing from service, the pastors recognize their absence right off the bat. He sees them 6, 7 or 8 times a week (factoring two services on Sunday, soul winning and prayer meetings). Oh, he is going to know if a "faithful" is not in service. And if he doesn't rapidly recognize someone's absence, some else who is "faithful" is going to bring it to his attention or ask about the person. That is the way it works in the NTCC. Then, (as I explained previously) comes the repercussions. The blastings via the pulpit, the private sit down and interrogation sessions addressing why you were absent from service, the open questioning and or in your face public humiliation tactics, "brother we missed you in church, do you need to get re-saved? We won't be needing you to teach children's church Sister, just have a seat in service, God has a blessing for you". Then the blastings come, you get benched, you get shunned, you get treated like a piece of crap because now your faithfulness is in question.
That is how it works in the NTCC.
Chief
Chief said:
"each pastor has been brainwashed to a significantly considerable degree."
DnA said:
Ain't that the truth, in fact I think it would not be a stretch to say that they get severely brainwashed, and not just the pastors. The members get severely brainwashed also, in fact many of the members and even some pastors are not mentally equipped to deal with the mind games that they have to endure in the ntcc.
There are many members and pastors that get "institutionalized". They can not function outside of the ntcc, because they have become dependent on the ntcc leadership to do all of their thinking for them. When one of these gets run off they become basket cases because they have been taught that they are eternally trapped without hope. That is why there is a lot of carnage among the Xer community. People can't put the pieces back together again.
DnA
Don and Ange wrote...
That is why there is a lot of carnage among the Xer community. People can't put the pieces back together again.
Chief said...
HELLO!!! And sometimes the puzzle is so broke, that it's won't ever go back together, (effectively). Ruined job and career opportunities, wasted educational opportunities, blown finances, wombs no longer functional due to prolonged, excessive birth control use resulting in an inability to have children, male and female steralization, family relationships destroyed, friendships destroyed, severe psychological damage resulting in unstable behavior such as murder, suicide, rape and other severe mental disorders.
DUDE, the NTCC is an absolute menace to society endangering all who haplessly come in contact with the cult and it's members. Plainly put, many NTCC people have become nut cases as a direct result of their involvement with the NTCC and I make no apologies for that statement.
Chief
Chief said,
"DUDE, the NTCC is an absolute menace to society endangering all who haplessly come in contact with the cult and it's members. Plainly put, many NTCC people have become nut cases as a direct result of their involvement with the NTCC and I make no apologies for that statement."
DnA say,
No need to apologize for the truth!
From what I've seen, they do have people taking attendance in church...in graham anyway. In the smaller churches an attendance sheet is not needed because of such few people, but in graham, I've seen certain ministers looking around from the back and checking off a list. I think the list is comprised of those in your soul winning group, but I'm not 100% sure on that one. Anyone else seen that before?
"From what I've seen, they do have people taking attendance in church."
CULT!
All I know is the NTCC sucks. Big time. I just learned that one of the very best friends that I ever had is dead. He and I kind of grew apart and can y'all guess why? Because of the stinkin NTCC and the crazy cult that he was a part of. Were it not for these two sorry churches, our friendship would have never grown cold. The last time I saw him, I was in the stinkin NTCC and he was in his twisted cult and due to doctrinal differences, two dudes went separate ways who had previously served together in the same platoon and section in the military and spent holidays together with friends and family. He was my very best friend when I was stationed in Germany during my second tour. He died of a heart attack. The funeral was a few weeks ago and his wife finally figured out how to get a hold of me today. It's amazing that she managed that one as my name is so common.
Our two stinkin, rotten churches are what separated such a strong friendship. His church had him brainwashed the same way mine had me. Over the last year or so, I've been trying to contact him but every phone number I could find that I thought might belong to him resulted in nothing. One of the nicest guys I've ever known is gone. I just got off the phone with his crying wife talking about how she misses him and there was nothing I could say other than he'd really been a good friend to me.
Don't let the NTCC separate you from friends and family because if you do, you'll regret it till the day you die because your friends in the NTCC (with few exceptions) ain't about nothing.
RWD, Kekel, Olson and all the rest of you NTCC leaders; here is what I have to say to you. You guys suck!!!! If separation from friends and family is such a good plan Tanya and Mike, how about distancing yourselves from Grant you hypocritical dick-heads. Hey RWD, Kekel threw you under the bus you old grump. The evidence is right on the front of the thread. RWD, why don't you distance yourself from him you fat piece of crap?
Chief
Wow. Jeff, we are truly sorry for your loss.
"Institutionalized" Finally a name for it! I never looked at it in that light before. Thinking that you can't make it serving God outside of NTCC - that is exactly how I felt. That's what kept me hanging on even though my gut told me things were "so wrong"!
That same word can be used for a prisoner.
What an eye opener!
Don and Ange said...
Wow. Jeff, we are truly sorry for your loss.
Jeff said...
Thanks. He was a real good dude. We were close for the better part of 10 years because after we left Germany, we stayed tight for years. It wasn't until he got heavily involved with his sorry church and me with the sorry NTCC that he and I started to grow apart. Can I totally fault our respective churches for that? Of course not. The other option was, I could have been a hypocrite like Kekel and Davis and cooked my conscience and hung out with the dude anyway. Well I don't operate like that. So as a result, I put my sorry, abusive, church in front of my good partner and now I regret it. I have nothing but disdain for the NTCC.
Chief
I am sorry for your loss too Chief, unfortunatly, it is all too common to lose contact with people you have known for years while in the NTCC, in the NTCC it is preached all the time do not be friends with worldly people, which in no uncertain terms includes folks in other churches other than NTCC. This is a sad testament to this cult and how they try to control all. Get the people into the NTCC, but once they are in, let someon else handle getting them saved. I have regrets about ever being a part of the "church behind the fence" in Graham.
Anonymous said...
I have regrets about ever being a part of the "church behind the fence" in Graham.
Chief said...
As do I. Thanks for the kind words.
Chief
Veronica,
Glad you liked that word "institutionalized". It is so true. We have seen it used for prisoners in the movie Shawshank Redemption. But it definitely applies to the exit process from ntcc. It takes time to deprogram. Most people leave and want to prove they are still Christians. This often results in them joining another abusive church group. They are so worried about appearing to have continued in the faith, that they find a church as much like the ntcc as possible. Or, if they were ministers, they may try to establish a church and without a conscious decision they do what they were taught in ntcc in almost an exact model or replica. It takes time to sort through and discard the false doctrines that ntcc men made.
After visiting other churches in various cities I was immediately struck with how genuinely nice the other churches are. The ministers did not scream and stomp. Often if they were going to be stern, they would apologize. It really stuck out as being so different from the ntcc. It showed me how much I had grown accustomed to the ntcc style abuse. Really such flagrant abuse should stand out: a man throwing out the "n" word from the pulpit or making other men's wives cry? It really should make you stand up and walk out.
But ntcc is crafted to break people in easy. The sincere Christian who brought you to service defends the maniac running the abuse show. You know it's wrong; but you override your knowledge and get sucked into the mire. Until one day you wake up and realize the joy is gone, your family is gone, you have no true friends, you have no freedom. You are in a cult that dictates your every move. You want out. You make the break. Then the healing process begins - deprogramming from the institution.
Don and Ange, so true, all that you said. Even as a member, not a preachers wife, I see all around what the people that where ministers and their wives had to endure. I am so glad I am out of that mess. They can judge me all they want when they see me,it doesn't matter any more. I know when they see me with my pants, "sinner woman" (yes I wear them}. Let them judge me, don't they know that to judge another is a sin.
Yes, it is called deprogramming, I am being deprogrammed. Thank God...
Good for you!
Anonymous said, "So, even though you are in Atlanta or wherever the rules are all the same. What do they do, keep a attendance sheet? Do they have people at each service taking attendance? How can they keep track of everyone"
Typically in Graham the ushers take the overall numbers of those in attendance in each service. New attendees will sign in at the guest book with the person who invited them as the point of contact and a welcome letter will be sent to their address. Those within a soulwinning team will tell the lay pastor that they report to who they have in a given service. The lay pastor does have a small 4X4 card that has names printed out for those who are on his own "faithful" list that he checks off.
Those within his soul winning teams will give a weekly report for those that came to each service. After the week the lay pastor reports to the Graham church office those who attended and which service they attend. The lay pastors may follow-up with those on their team regarding the status of a person that has not been in service.
Wow, it sounds VERY regimented and contrived. I thought going to church was about God. There is so much emphasis on getting new people, I don't like that about this church, I understand why they do it now $$$$$$, but there is so much emphasis on getting new people in. I remember in Parkland, the now defunct church, Rev. Wright would say "pack a pew" every single service. In Graham they don't use this terminology. However, it is all the same outcome. Get people here, so we can bug and harass them to keep coming. I was going through a old drawer the other day, and came across a "soul winning" brochure from 2006, Chief, do you want to see it? I can send it to you. It gave me food for thought in light of all I now know about the NTCC. This brochure is 2 pages all about the NTCC with a picture of the "royal couple", Tanya and Mike. Chief, you might find it very interesting.
If Chief doesn't want the "soul winning" brochure, we would love a copy. It could be scanned into a computer and e-mailed to us:
1gi2another@gmail.com
We're willing to put it on our blog if you want.
Of course, that's up to you and Chief. :o)
Why would you put a picture of two people who have NEVER GONE SOULWINNING on your "soul winning" brochure?
LOL!
Did anyone hear that Helen Ashmore (Duran) had a stroke?
No and for all it's worth, hopefully she gets better. I may not like the organization she is a part of but having a stroke is no joke and that was not intended to be humorous.
I can't scan it, but I will mail it to you, if you provide me with a address. who is Helen Ashmore? Is this Rev. Ashmore's wife?
That's okay, Anon. Don't worry about the brochure. Helen Ashmore is the wife of James Ross Ashmore.
I understand, how could I get your address, I certainly would not expect you to put it out here, I don't feel free to put my name out here...for good reason.
just go to fedex kinkos and they will scan it.
lots of places will scan it for you and put it on a usb stick .... then you can upload it online ...
My spouse went soul winning, for many years, then stopped due to other obligations, but I was told people did not like to go "soul winning" they did it more because they where told to do it. I will say this, I just assumed that the Kekels also went soul winning too. What was their reason for making their entire congregation soul win and they did not? Why? How could they justify this?
Since I've left, people that I've talked to that are still in completely understand when I say I don't want to go door knocking anymore. I don't even call it soul winning anymore because it WAS NOT SOUL WINNING!!!!!!
Hello!!! Door knocking!!! It is bothering people at their home when they did not invite you. It is a waste of time.
And yet, it is preached that if you are saved, you will go door knocking. I would that each leader of NTCC come on here and tell us when was the last time they knocked on 50-100 doors in one day and followed up the next week.
No one will respond, I am pretty certain. Because they don't. I don't know what they do when they send out all the faithful...
So, then, by their words, are they saved?
What is true soul winning anyway? Definitely not what they do. They say to just get them to church and let the pastor tell them about Jesus. And then another pastor will get up there and say, "Tell someone about Jesus"...they confuse people....they are confused!!!!! AHHHH!!!!
I remember spending time door knocking and following up, then finally someone would come out to service only to get blasted, never to come again because of rude men behind the pulpit. What incentive do they give? I don't think that Pastor Davis was overly rude, but the hireling(MCK) was quite rude. Ever since the hireling took over it seems that the have lost hundreds of good people. Can I get a witness?
Sunday services where all the same, it is no wonder people would come once and never again. You would think that the Sunday services would be a little less screaming, and less bashing from the pulpit, but no, just the same old stuff. Kinson was a little better at giving a "feel good" message, but mostly it was screaming from the pulpit, 1 1/2 hours to be exact. I don't need to go to church to be verbally abused. Sometimes, that is exactly what it was.
the door knocking and how it was all organized was a good business method for finding "customers".
it would have been better to just ask them for money since that is all davis wants anyway.
actually that would be better because then no one would need to follow up and the next week you could canvas a new housing area.
Like I said before, it was very contrived. The NTCC isn't about God. We where all duped to think it was...
Anonymous said..."Ever since the hireling took over it seems that the have lost hundreds of good people. Can I get a witness?"
I'll AMEN that! One of the saddest things is though that there are ministers and their families who have left and they are no more concerned for them then a stranger they see in Walmart. Someone can devote half their life to the NTCC and can be callously dismissed because "if they went out from us, they were never of us" or others are told that they wanted the world, money, house, etc. more than God.
If they are a church member in Graham, they may have a minister, lay pastor or associate pastor visit them but once they refuse or resist them they are put on the "inactive list" and may not be called or dealt with for a long time. So when you leave you're consigned to a list, rather than any demonstration of concern or self-examination of the preacher to see if they did anything wrong. If you begin to tell others about NTCC and tell the truth of what happened to you and it comes back around to them any ties you had with you friends may be cut because they consider this gossip. Now you've went from a list to being essentially excommunicated and ostracized by the group you once called your "real family".
As far as their preaching, they would do better to emulate Billy Graham rather than always "seeing a nail" and having to use their Bible as a hammer. In his younger messages that you can find on YouTube of course he was a vibrant and expressive speaker, but you could feel his love and concern for lost people, for those that needed to rededicate their lives to God and for Christians to become closer to God. I don't think he'd ever say, "If you don't like it there's the door." He'd probably quote Jesus and say, "If any man is thirsty let him come unto me and I will give him living water."
Once again and this is nothing new, the NTCC stinks to high heaven. I can think of no worse organization on this planet. R.W. Davis make Adolf Hitler seem like a choir boy the way I see it. At least you knew where you stood with Adolf. Folks have no clue where they stand with RWD or Kekel for that matter.
It sounds more like they are trying to be a door-to-door salesman without demonstrating anything. Why buy something from them if they won't demonstrate it? Why go to a church if they don't demonstrate love? Why pay tithe to a church where there is no accountability to the members and where the only thing visible is more buildings and houses? Why pay tithe to a church that does not serve or give back to the community?
In a phone conversation, Chief said:
"RWD was a lot better cult leader than Kekel."
DnA said:
RWD passed the reigns of the cult to Kekel and since then Kekel has been driving it into the ground. Davis was a lot better at brainwashing people and getting them to do what he wanted them to do. Davis, (RWD-bag, RWD-drive, R-dub or Dub-face) had a way of making you feel like you were involved in something spectacular while keeping you blindly digging into your wallet and giving wads of cash to the ntcc (Davis's personal slush fund). Kekel has no people skills whatsoever. He has run off many good people and does not have the ability to show any type of care or concern for others. He is pretty heartless and phony and it seems like the only ones left in this dying organization are the lifers that are afraid to exist outside of the ntcc. They are a bunch of rag-tag holdouts that are barely surviving below the poverty level.
If Davis would have handed the Borg over to someone like Olson or Ashmore, it would have taken longer to destroy. Perhaps Davis is using the same model he used for successful civilian works. He would send a real go-getter in to work their butt off establishing a successful church. That couple that would work till they dropped and would put all of their money and energy into a building and preach and build something that could last, with many new converts, and then Davis would move that person and send an abusive jerk in there to drive it into the ground so he could sell it off for a real estate investment.
Maybe Davis thought that by putting Kekel in charge that he would give him just enough rope to hang himself. Davis still has perhaps a few years left in him. Maybe placing Kekel in charge was Davis's way of making one last mega real estate deal before he keels over in which Grant might become the beneficiary of a pretty big "non-profit" real estate transaction. Flipping a cult. Sell off all the unprofitable churches and get rid of all the old preachers, put the money into a big slush fund in Graham and Grant lives happily ever after in a compromising church. I predict that before he is 25, Grant will be a multimillionaire.
DnA
Thats right, all the folks here who have left, they don't care about. If you run into them in Graham, you might, MIGHT, get a hello. But, there is no genuine caring on their part, you are just another backsliding Christian, with one less tithe check they can cash, isn't that the term they use? Judgmental as the day is long.
Anonymous said:
"But, there is no genuine caring on their part, you are just another backsliding Christian, with one less tithe check they can cash, isn't that the term they use? "
DnA said:
"I remember the ntcc preachers would put down the Baptists for using that term, Backsliding. They would say, "You never frontslid". Or, "You just need to frontslide into the Rock, Christ Jesus one time". Turns out that all those cliches should have been applied to them. They have turned into a very hateful and critical thinking, fear mongering bunch of law keepers that have nothing good to say about anyone. They are the ones that have backsliden. Not only have they compromised much of their holiness doctrine and changed their policies and rules to suite their own needs but they are spiritually bereft, and rival Warren Jeffs in the arena of sin. When it's all said and done, RWD and Kekel are going to have a lot of blood on their hands for the lives they have ruined.
DnA
I agree with you Don and Ange, but I refuse to let them ruin my life, I won't allow it. I allowed the NTCC to take things from me that I can and will get back, I can't make up the lost years, but I must move on. And, I must forgive them including persons in my inner circle that betrayed me. It's the only way I can go on with my life. I think in some way we must all do this to get on with our lives. Let me just say, having this blog to come out a speak my mind has been extremely helpful. It is not about being bitter, it's about expressing freely how the NTCC has affected us. Thats why when someone comes on this blog and makes attacks towards something I write or someone else, I will not stand for it. This blog has been a Godsend and I hope it never goes away, unless of course the NTCC shuts its doors, however, I still think people will want a place to vent, this is a good place to do just that.
Hey, is anybody out there????
Not too much these days. Don't worry, the rapture didn't take place. Even if it did, those NTCC crooks wouldn't be attending.
Anonymous said...
I remember spending time door knocking and following up, then finally someone would come out to service only to get blasted, never to come again because of rude men behind the pulpit.
When I would bring people, I would be cringing during the service and thinking oh, my poor visitor. The harsh attitude and crass talk. I remember one time a guy was a cook and MCK got up there talking about what a demeaning job being a cook was. I wanted to shrivel up and die on the spot. That's just one example. Stuff like that and far worse comes from the pulpit out there on a regular basis. I was living right and I couldn't even take all the blasting. I would come out of there feeling like wow, where is the encouragement. We'd pray and sit down. Then MCK says, now stand up and REALLY PRAY! I'm thinking, this guy is nuts. I did pray and I even touched God. What's his problem? That place is wacky, period.
that's funny anon. I rmember little things like that.
What about if you didn't go to the front to pray at the altar? you would get it too.
Not saying that we shouldn't go to the altar but for the most part the people crowded the front and you didn't have a place to pray unless you would kneel at the aisle which sometimes it was full with people just standing there.
And another thing, we here in ntcc ain't never preached against getting an education. Look at RWD, he's got a PhD, not one, but two of 'em. So to the multitude of you fault finders who gave up your GI Bill when we didn't say that, don't feel so bad. You just got it all messed up in your brain.
Yeah, and I believe the Holocaust never happened either.
You are joking right? I heard it time and time again over the pulpit in Graham, "if you are called to preach then why do you want to get a secular education" meanwhile how can even a member be in every service, go soul winning every Saturday, two services on Sunday, and go to school with a full time job, and a wife that can't work. All the rules the NTCC places on a man, how on earth could he go to school and feel he is "a Christian"? You would feel convicted every time you go to church. Of course, forget about a education if you are a woman in the NTCC.
I think that anon.@ 7:52 was just being sarcastic.
In graham there's lots of exmilitary that are getting their education.
Some are encouraged to do it, of course, "now" they are encouraged because before it was looked at putting your own desire before the will of God which was a no-no.
anon said: forget about education if you're a woman in ntcc:
I wonder what would've happened if the kekels had a girl, do you thing that she would have been encouraged to go to college?
I know the olson's girl got married very young and don't think she went to college.
I remember when sis. davis said that tk would go to get classes about pottery or interion design.
She didn't just stay home all day doing nothing, her mother stated that she was always doing something or learning something.
For all we know she probably has a degree.
Interesting, I have been out a year almost, and I remember that ministers where told over the pulpit, why do you want to go to school when you have been called to preach? Maybe, they now know, that just having a ministers license in the NTCC isn't worth more than the paper it's printed on. As far as Tanya is concerned, her job, now that Grant is in college, is decorating that nice new house she now lives in. I heard that her old house was beautifully decorated, so that must be her "job" decorating her mansion, and others in the org. Home decorating can be a job for some. She probably does that within the organization to make her feel like she is doing "something" After all, don't all women want to feel they are earning some money? or doing something productive, babysitting and cleaning houses aside. I am sorry, that is not a job it is hard, hard, hard to clean and look after other peoples kids. I understand that is all NTCC ministers wives are allowed to do.
If the Kekels had a girl, you can best believe she would have gotten an education , online or something, not like these poor young girls married off to some poor BS student. The parents I blame for marrying off their young daughters into this mess. They should be ashamed of themselves, as far as I could tell, most of those marriages did not last... In Graham anyway.
As it's said, knowledge is power. So if you get an education, you might just realize what a fraud and a farce the whole ntcc scene is. Take a 100 level college course in Psychology and you'll be thinking, how could I have been so duped. The leaders use abuse tenderhearted people, binding lives in chains to their every whim, and all the while live in a completely different manner. Then lie and say you never told people this or that because it doesn't fit your agenda any more. That's pretty sick.
I find it hilarious in a sad way that there are people in NTCC who actually believe that RW has a doctorate degree!!! LOL, the guy is about as ignorant as they come, you have to obtain a bachelor's then a masters in order to even attempt a doctorate. Where exactly did this man go to school??
TB
Anon said, "You are joking right? I heard it time and time again over the pulpit in Graham, "if you are called to preach then why do you want to get a secular education"
I remember R W Davis saying many times in conference "If you want to go to college then turn in your license." He would say "God called you to that town to preach not go to college."
M C Kekel was lying about that issue, in both service's, this past Sunday. Now he is the one bragging about his degree. He's just trying to be like the ole Davis.
This guy is a butt-face, lying, looser. Yeah, I said it.
Everything has changed, that is for sure. You still have a few that try to be like the people of old when the org first started, but that is another story.
One time I was in a conversation where mrs rwd was saying that when they first started the org. she herself didn't think it was right for jho to go to get a degree on real estate but that rw said that they were gonna need somebody to know that kind of stuff because as an org. they were gonna need somebody with knowledge about purchasing churches and what not.
She was saying all this because grant was going to college and she just wanted to let it be known that there are things that the org. does for the sake of the ministry. This was the first time I heard that gk was going to get sometime of business law degree.
She said: the org. is gonna need a lawyer sometime.
My take was that the org. is willing to allow some to pursue something but you will have to stay under the perimeters of what they dictate.
You must be willing to submit to whatever bylaws they put on you and use your degree or work, etc. only to benefit the org.
At least that's what I gathered out of all that.
Makes sense to me, that is why Gezang isn't going anywhere, why? because he is too valuable right in Graham getting the building crew doing what they do and buying property, he will NEVER go out in the ministry, period. What kind of degree does Kekel say he has? Probably he won't disclose that to you.
So you where in Sundays service, so you still attend? it must be tough knowing all you know now. I know it was for me before I finally got strong and got out. No judgment here though, it takes time to get out. Just remember, this is truth being said out here. More than you ever get in the NTCC.
So, Kekel is denying that going to college was preached against?
Man, this reminds me of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the President of Iran, denying that the Holocaust ever happened. You know, now that I think about it, Kekel kind-a looks like Ahmadinejad. They're both ugly!
`I remember them preaching in Graham, they just opened a mormon cult up the road, you know the old saying, "people in glass houses should'nt throw stones" Now whose the cult? They both are. Two cult churches within one mile of each other, I kid you not. Graham is surrounded.
MC Kekel is a Richard Cranium.
Having the first name "Dick" would be applicable in Kekel's case and most certainly in RWD's case as well. They both fit the urban definition.
Straight from the Urban Dictionary:
1. An annoying twat.
2. someone being arrogant, rude, obnoxious, or just a total dickhead....
Thats too funny. RWD and MCK definitely fit the latter definition quite well.
You guys better watch out...Little Mike doesn't like it when people disrespect him on the blogs. He might be forced to punish the Graham church with a verbal onslaught on Sunday Morning! oooh, I'm getting nervous just thinking about it...not.
He is such a dweeb.
Jeff wrote: "...cooked my conscience and hung out with the dude anyway. Well I don't operate like that."
I don’t operate like that either.
Character dictates a person gets fully behind what they believe in. So you (Jeff) must be a Christian (or have another belief system above and beyond what is the norm in a cult).
Jeff also wrote: “So as a result, I put my sorry, abusive, church in front of my good partner and now I regret it.”
Jeff, don’t regret it. To be faithful is always a plus. Even if what a person is faithful too turns out to be wrong. Senior Pastor Kekel doesn’t have this quality (as is proven by his own written words). Who knew? I also have this quality (being faithful/a Company man/loyal/trustworthy/forthright/transparent/honest/dependable/consistent, et cetera…just ask those that know me [inside and out], and they’ll tell “ya”).
In His Service,
Gregory
Can anyone list all those that have departed NTCC in the past few years? It's so helpful to hear! We are not alone!!!
The list is LONG. I left last July, and I can't put my name out here yet, but I am so glad I did, this church is a farce. I was a faithful member in Graham, but I did not look at this blog, I heard about it though, once I did the pieces of this puzzle all fit, and I left. I would never go back and they that still stay don't care about you when you leave, you are nothing. A sad testament to a fraudulent church full of judgemental hypocrites. Harsh words but in my humble opinion, true.
Anon said " A sad testament to a fraudulent church full of judgemental hypocrites. Harsh words but in my humble opinion, true."
Ntcc is nothing more than "New Pharisee's" with a fatal disease. They're god is the check-book and they're church is the bank.
Always a flappin they're jaws...trying to live by the law. Have a great day y-all!
Glad to hear from greg and mdr.
I also wondered like anon: may29,9:42. about who has left.
Go to the facebook page of a well known name here in this blog and there'll you see the list of people they are friends with and pretty much it is those have left the org.
Like somebody said, while in the ntcc they hardly knew each other but now they can see each other without being in a conference or "supervised" fellowship meeting!
We been out of NTCC for about three years. We are enjoying the fellowship of the brethern who have left. There's no little yous are big I'everyone is important. Real love!! God bless you all! :)
Greg wrote...
Jeff, don’t regret it. To be faithful is always a plus.
Jeff said...
I hear what you are saying Greg but that in itself doesn't make a way for me so see my buddy ever again. He was a real good friend to me and I hate it that a couple churches were the main factor causing he and I to grow apart. Right or wrong, had a regarded my buddy's friendship as David regarded that of Johnathan's, we would have ignored all that other stuff and continued in regular contact with each other.
Oh well, it's life but that don't make me like the NTCC any better because I can't stand that crooked organization.
Chief
I hear crickets its so quiet on here...
I'm sure it won't be long before NTCC does something else crazy to ignite some commentary. Or else another enlightened soul will join the exodus and stir up some activity. Maybe it's time for me to dig up those old class notes and post some hilarity direct from the flapping lips of the "apostle."
Lets get back to the racial issues in th NTCC, I know it has been discussed before, however, in Graham I would say more than 3/4 of the congregation is a minority. That said, are they not aware that their "pastors" Davis, Keckel and maybe Kinson are racist. I sure wish I knew that when I joined this sorry excuse for a Christian church. So many years spent in this church I get sick just thinking about it... Can we revisit this issue? Maybe they say well "it's under the blood" I don't buy it, not for one minute. Why do any people stay in the NTCC, especially the blacks??? Help me figure this out...
Say it isn't so Chief, if you stop this blog, then what about the new people who join, and they don't know about this blog and get involved in this messed up cult. Someone needs to lead this blog forward. someone needs to take it over. If it where not for this blog and finding out the truth, I might still be in that mess, people I know still are there, why? I don't know. But they are, who can take this over? Someone has to, don't let this blog die out....
Anonymous,
Jeff wrote..."There is enough information already on this blog for any logical sincere minded individual to categorically conclude beyond all doubt that the NTCC is one seriously crooked controlling organization/cult lead by a bunch of money hungry greedy crooks."
Gregory
I can't believe you've been blogging for 4 years, chief!
Times goes so quickly and you're right that there's enough info here and on the other blogs for people to find out what they are getting into and if they decide to stay for the long haul, well....
The month of June brought memories of long ago when I started going to ntcc.
Of course, you have to realize that when you first join you are young and very impressionable and you're trying to find a place in this world. You want to belong and ntcc is a place where they make you think about how important you are to the program of God that without your involment in the program people are dying and going to hell.
Just think about it, it's your fault that those souls will go to hell if you don't do something about it.
So people go to bible school.
Which brings us to the next point. Of all those people that have graduated, are there more churches being started?
Hundreds have graduated and yet there's still a void.
If it was about the souls then why all that money not being invested in getting people to start churches and reaching the lost and dying souls, a saying many still have in the logo of their church cards!
creflo dollar in the style of ntcc tells his believers I should have never been arrested and the sheep keep following
<a href="http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/creflo-dollar-denies-punching-choking-daughter-16535791#.T9TTiDVDwrU<creflo dollar in trouble</a>
Creflo dollar
Thats because the sheep are blind just like in the ntcc.
"When I first heard what he was accused of, I didn't believe it. I knew there had to be more to the story," said Phyllissa Wolley, 23, a daycare worker who has attended the church for about five years. "I felt like he addressed the accusations today, and I believe what he said. To hear from him personally, I really appreciated that. I was glad to hear his side of the story."
Others said the media blew the accusations out of proportion without having all the facts and they felt vindicated after hearing Dollar speak.
"I think you're looking at a bunch of sensationalism," said George Blake of Ellenwood, adding that he thought the media rushed to tell the story without knowing the full story. The 49-year-old said he never questioned his pastor of eight years.
"It's not up to me to me to be satisfied with what he had to say," Blake said. "This is a man of God spreading the word of God."
Doesn't that sound familiar. Dollar could have killed one of his family members and the majority of his congregation would be too stupid to admit it. Dollar is no more a man of god than Davis or Kekel. What you have is a group of suckers who need some man to follow to feel complete.
In my opinion the reason people stay is, they NEED the NTCC and the people in it, they give them something, probably different for every individual but something is given to them, the NTCC fills a void in their life. The sad thing is, they don't even see it...
well I guess it is time for the 24 gun salute for this blog and the moderator, because without somebody else taking over this, it is pointless. Just like factnet and the others.......time to move on like the chief said..........I hear the sound of taps.............
Anonymous said...
well I guess it is time for the 24 gun salute for this blog and the moderator
Chief said...
It's not that bad. I don't mind participating in a blog but moderating one indefinitely gets old. Anyone can start a blog and they can promote it here. That will help at least get started a little bit anyway. The problem is constantly developing topics that are not old already which also must be somewhat interesting and thought provoking. Anyone can start a Google blog but it takes work, time and dedication.
Factnet faded away for two reasons. The format changed and it became a sight which required payment. The NTCC cost me enough money without me having to continuing to pay to expose them. Time is money and I've dedicated plenty of that but I'm not going to kick in cash along with it.
So the torch must be passed and I've wanted to pass it for a while now and Don and Ange's blog is still active with new topics and most recently a very good one. Anyone who wants to start a blog has the freedom to do exactly that and I'd be willing to help if they wanted to call and ask advise (for all it's worth).
Chief
All you guys sound a little too bitter about a church
,maybe there were individuals who had issues but if
they are winning souls isnt that whats important?
Paul (in the Bible) said that some preach Christ of envy, some of strife, that Christ is preached by some for the wrong reasons. He said he rejoices that Christ is preached.
We all rejoice that Christ is preached and people can hear the Word and be saved.
This blog is about the hypocrisy of NTCC leaders and wanna-be leaders.
How the leaders say "do this" or "dont do that" and in the darkness they do the very opposite.
Then you sheeple believe their lies and blatant hypocrisy and continue on as if nothing has happened.
They misuse all of the money via escrow funds, and so on and so forth.
They lie and change "rules" to fit their scheme to keep people in so they can continue their business.
NTCC is a real estate business operating as a church run by hypocrites.
They are pimps in the pulpit is all.
Pimps in the Pulpit - NTCC
What NTCC is really like
They don't win souls--they trap them.
I attended a ntccchurch for a while when i was in the service more than 20yrs agoo
.They did preach salvation through Christ and many young men &women wereturning their lives around. I do remember alot of rules and a push for bible
school. Cant it be said that a lot of good was done but maybe there were some
issues in higher part of the org?
There are christians who can be controlling
and even hold double standards when it comes
to their families or themselves,this seems to
be a human thing easy to be seen in others
but not ourselves. The ntcc leaders are not
unique in this ,trust me.
The whole part though where 1man runs
the entire org from the top makes me
uncomfortable.
anyone know what ever happened to rev Ashmore "the walking bible" and rev
Blumenthal a powerful man of God?
Blumenthal cheated on his wife and wouldn't do right and Ashmore and his wife have been on a life long journey to cover up their sons adulterous affairs by doing their best to hide evidence of their illegitimate grandchildren. They do stuff like hide pictures and keep quiet about it. They don't want people to know that they are human also. The ntccs quest for perfection has failed at every juncture; quite miserably I might add.
How the leaders say "do this" or "dont do that" and in the darkness they do the very opposite.
We were held to a much different standard. It was a "do as they say and not as they do" situation. While we're being preached to that amusement parks were evil, Mike and Tanya were taking Grant to Disneyland. They ran into some church members at the It's a Small World attraction. Now that is poetic justice.
"Cant it be said that a lot of good was done but maybe there were some
issues in higher part of the org?"
That could be said, but it would be more accurate to say that the thing is corrupt to the bone, although some incidental good may have occurred. When NTCC is weighed in the balances, it is found severely wanting.
"Ashmore and his wife have been on a life long journey to cover up their sons adulterous affairs by doing their best to hide evidence of their illegitimate grandchildren"
They tried to hide the legitimate one too. Pathetic examples of Christianity. The Lord might use you to do "miracles", but how do you treat your own family? Pathetic.
My headache just stopped. Is that a miracle? My premenstrual cramps just quit. Was that a miracle? I doubt there is any real evidence of any miracles performed by Ashmore. I've witnessed Ashmores shenanigans.
If a grown man wants to take his family to an amusement parkthere is nothing wrong w/that.
However he can do nothing about church rules.
Chief,
You're blog is still pretty active. You ought to have a going out of business sale more often, lol.
I hear you. I think I'll do "Complete Lack of Wisdom" part 3 if this one gets to 200 comments. Kekel ought to like that. I'm tired of putting together new topics. Folks can talk about whatever they want to.
Chief
i can understand you jeff.
for your last topic though, you should do it on the members such as "why do you stay"
knowing that
this occurs and that occurs,etc
I already know what most of them would say. The ones who acknowledge that there are severe problems in the NTCC routinely say:
"All churches have problems". "There are no perfect churches". "If I left this church, it would only be to go to a church with different problems".
Because they become convinced that there is quote, "compromise" everywhere, they become content to simply stay in a crooked church. Either that or they are crooked themselves like RWD and Kekel and they are interested in perpetuating the money making scheme with the hope that they'll become rich one day like RWD and Kekel.
Anyway, to be a good steward of this blog, I'm continuing to respond to remarks but like I said, it's about time to move on. Life is too short for me any longer to spend as much time as I have with the NTCC on this blog. If people want to continue the quest of exposing the NTCC (which is a noble one) on an active forum, it would be a good idea for someone to start and moderated another blog and or focus your attention toward Don and Ange's.
There is currently a large body of information here and little or no new info is being written. If someone reads a decent portion of this blog and they still remain with the NTCC they fall in one of four categories.
1. Severely brainwashed.
2. Simple minded (possibility a combination of the two).
3. Trapped because of their association with another family member i.e. parent or spouse.
5. Or they are simply a hypocritical crook, con artist.
I can think of no other possibilities because the NTCC is one sad, sick, sorry organization that is anything but Godly.
I'm out.
Chief
hmmm.... i think chief isn't really leaving the blog,
i think he is planning to run for president !
i'll vote for ya chief.
I wonder if we'll ever get a no nonsense president again....
I have an idea, chief.
What about if you just go to the beginning and start from your first post minus the comments so the people would post new comments, I don't know if you can do that.
Sort of just re-runs from when you first started.
I remember there was a comic "for better or for worse" and the creator of that comic did something like I'm proposing. The comic had run it's course and she didn't really wanted to go on with creating new material so she went from the beginning and just added a few things here and there.
Don and ange are there for the long run so.................... just my two pence worth.
Guys isnt it obvious that Mike Kekel wants to make changes but the older leadership doesnt want it.It sounds like change is happening but may come
faster if Rev Davis is called home to be with the Lord.
I always wanted to hear Rev Davis preach but never did . Is there somewhere I could listen to
his sermons like a website or something ?
did he quit preaching altogether ? he used to preach sometimes in graham.
no, you wont find them on a website or anything.
there may be an old-timer that has some tapes or something but i'm sure they would be hard to find
"When I was in the service many years ago they were calling
it a"boot camp for preachers". Im sure you could be a blessing to so many people"
But with ntcc the bootcamp never ends. Being yelled at for 20 or 25 years like your a new recruit gets old after a while.
I kind of read between the lines when chief was posting and he probably is going through a period of total burn-out.
Maybe he is just grieving for remember that his buddy whom he really connected but because of the rules about not associating oneself to people outside of ntcc, recently passed away.
I can't imagine being a man or a minister in the ntcc and waking up one day finding out that you've been giving the best days of your life to an org and like the hamster on the wheel, you're thinking you're going somewhere but you really are not...........
I remember going to a graduation and the speaker said: dont let others dream for you. Have your own dreams!
Sadly to say there's many that are getting on that wheel even right now, unsuspecting young men and women, and carrying on like they are going somewhere but all they are doing is being put in a cage!
Anonymous said...
I kind of read between the lines when chief was posting and he probably is going through a period of total burn-out.
Maybe he is just grieving for remember that his buddy whom he really connected but because of the rules about not associating oneself to people outside of ntcc, recently passed away.
Chief said...
My decision had nothing to do with my friend passing away. Nothing whatsoever. I'm just sick of blogging specifically about the NTCC. It's no longer a priority to me because it's not my problem. "Christian Suckers" are going to keep getting taken advantage of anyway. There are plenty of churches like World Changers, New Birth and the NTCC. It would take the Government to shut the NTCCs doors which I seriously doubt will ever happen. I certainly won't be holding my breath. Even if their doors did shut the "Christian Suckers" would simply find another church leader who would gladly accept their money. It's a never ending cycle that I've determined will continue with or without this blog.
For every person who leaves the NTCC, there are 50 more at the door even if they only stay briefly. As long as the NTCC con artists get at least a couple months or years tithes out of them, they are content because that is what it is all about anyway.
Bottom line is, I've done about as much as I'm going to do concerning exposing the NTCC. I've had enough of it. For the last four years, Superman and Flash put together couldn't have done as much typing as I have and I've done enough.
If these folks are content to be suckers while coughing up all their money, that's there problem, not mine. That ain't what Christianity is all about. So no need for anymore speculation as to why I'm moving on. There is more to life than exposing the NTCC and I've been doing it long enough. If folks stay they stay and if they leave they leave; the world goes on. I've said it plenty of times before, there is a sucker born every day and the NTCC has plenty to choose from. If someone else wants to start a blog, I think that is a great idea but I've spent enough time on this one.
Chief
Cheif,
I understand...as for my husband and I, we are kind of burnt out and over the whole NTCC thing...
So we haven't been on here much...
But we are extrememly thankful for all the info that was on here to open our eyes when we needed it most.
Thank you for all you've done and for being here for us.
....although, I do really like what someone said earlier about reruns! That sounds kind of refreshing...but then again, it can just bring up a lot of...whatever, depending on who reads it...and it is still here for people to go back and read.
I do want to bring up a possibility. If you wouldn't mind starting one more topic that is just open for people to vent or maybe post how good they are doing since they left. I know we've been much more happier.
And I will end with a quote from our beloved (ugh) MCK...
"One of the biggest enemies of aging Ministers is their fear that they won’t be taken care of in their old age. This fear causes them to resort to secular education and employment, abandoning the call of God; but the key is taking care of their old age, in their youth. Then, the wives go on jobs too, which is against the bible, and they find that the same spending habits that got them into the mess, rob them of happiness, even with a double income."
Double ugh!!
Chief, I can understand why you have had enough, but let me say I truly appreciate this blog. I am so glad that I learned the truth about the NTCC and I now see it for what it really is. I don't know if I would have been privy to this information had it not been for this blog. There was so many pieces of the puzzle that I did not have, but reading this blog now everything makes sense to me. I see it for what it really is, a conniving church making money off its congregation and ministers works. I want nothing to do with any of it. And I wish I had never set foot on that campus cult in Graham, but I cannot change the past, all I can do is move forward. Good luck to you Chief and thank you again for your efforts with this blog. I, for one, have appreciated it so much. I admire your perserverance, and I know others do too. I wish you well.
Signed, A former {cult} member, or "just a member".
The split that took place in the ntcc, how does that entity self govern? Do
they send members to Graham school ?
I drive 18-wheelers over the road
and frequently go to Washington state.
Does the ntcc facility in Graham have room
for truck parking there or nearby? and are
the roads truck accessible? Or would i need
to call the church to find that out? Some
sunday morn i may want to drop in to hear
Rev Mike Kekel preach.
Save your gas and time. He's a blow hard.
yeah, you could park your truck in the parking lot. they'd probably have you park by the office.
it'd be better to just park your truck at walmart, call the church and ask for a ride.
Or, just hold a sign with NTCC on it and i'm sure one of the bros will stop by and pick you up.
It will be good brownie points that they brought someone to church.
another topic:
for those of you wanting chief to continue the blog, there's not really a reason to.
He isn't taking the blog down.
also, all the information one needs is here on the blog.
it's indexed in the search engines so as people continue to search about ntcc, they'll find this blog.
what's davis's status ? is he sick or well ?? does he still preach or not ? someone know ?
They wouldn't let you bring a big truck into that parking lot and tear it up.
It would be funny if you did. You could double park in front of their bmws and block all the reserved parking spots that are for the local preachers and board members only.
Ha Ha.
Their valet wouldn't know what to do! He would run and report it. Then twenty or more dudes in suits would come show you the love of the brethren and you would be nursing some road rash for a while. It would be the best thing for you to learn right off the bat what this church is really all about and how they work it.
Of course, if you are a good boy or girl, you will leave your truck at Wal Mart and bring your fat trucker's wallet with you. In that case, you could expect them to roll out the red carpet for you so you could roll out all that green from your wallet to theirs. Ha ha ha. So true.
Let us know how it goes. If you have a recorder, that would be even better. Try and get a picture with the celebrity preachers there. So sure they would love that! Wa ha ha ha ha.
Their valet wouldn't know what to do! He would run and report it. Then twenty or more dudes in suits would come show you the love of the brethren and you would be nursing some road rash for a while. It would be the best thing for you to learn right off the bat what this church is really all about and how they work it.
If that happened then he could file assault charges against them. That would be great!
Do you drive a Brinks?
LOL!
Chief,
It's been awhile since I've been here, but your blog has been one of the most effective weapons against the deceit and lies within NTCC. You've taken the torch from what Brian and Tracy had done with their blog and also the ntccXposed blog, Factnet and the various bits of information floating around cyberspace. Don & Ange's blog has also been instrumental and revealed some of the great tragedies within NTCC and named names as well. It's perfectly understandable about the burnout and you have a duty to your family, to take care of your health, and now to the US Army.
I hope you had a great Father's Day and got to spend time with your family and do something special. Most of the time in NTCC we were always too busy or they never wanted to acknowledge a holiday to begin with. If they did do something for a holiday it was geared around another event just to get people in pews. You've been a true soldier and I'm sure you'll be even more successful in this next phase of your life. Stay strong, Army strong!
Take Care,
Steakboy
Thanks Steakboy. I genuinely appreciate your kind words. Have a good one.
Chief
The Graham parking lot is not easily 18-wheeler accessible/friendly (though there is plenty of room for you to park on a Sunday morning). They won't let you park there anyway, because your truck is too heavy for the lot (understandable).
They are very particular about protecting the investment of the parking lot (also understandable; but, as far as your soul goes, “…if you don’t like it there’s the door…”). They don't even want you dripping oil on it. If your car leaks oil, they want you to park on the gravel lot (also, understandable).
Plus, they do not handle the out-of-the-ordinary well, and a tractor trailer coming for church is not ordinary (as the cult defines ordinary). Their property is their main/only consistent concern.
Parking at Walmart and calling for a ride is the most reasonable option. Or, unhooking your load and driving your tractor there may be better (although, weight restrictions may still apply).
Gregory
Greg, you have them pegged
Chief,
You are to be commended for the superb work you have been doing. I just took over as moderator for the "NTCC Support" Yahoo group that has been around for almost 9 years, although it has slowed down as of late. I go for weeks or months without checking these blogs, but I do get back around to them from time to time and very much appreciate all your effort!
- Les R., Joplin Mo.
Thanks. The NTCC is led by a bunch of crooks with no common decency. There are many who haven't figured that out yet but it's not just the NTCC. The U.S. is full of such churches. They are just a different flavor of the same slop. I've come to the conclusion that I've done enough as it's time to invest my energy elsewhere. Some folks will never learn and I no longer see it as my personal problem. If they want to continue to throw their lives away with all the evidence that's available, that's their problem, not mine. The only ones I really feel sorry for anymore is their children but I realize that I can't help them anymore than I already have so it's time for me to move on. I have my own family to worry about. Good luck to everyone.
If I don't respond to folks in the future, please understand. There is more to my life than this blog and I've been at this blog for enough years already. I have a life that is no longer going to revolve around the NTCC in any shape form or fashion to include this blog. Just make no mistake about it; the NTCC will always suck and of that I'm certain. I don't care how you flip it, slop will always be slop and Kekel is nothing but a con artist and so is his conniving pappy in law.
I'm not being snotty, but I don't plan to respond to too many more posts as I'm totally sick of the NTCC and anything having to do with it.
Chief
Next time you have some time, go out to the official NTCC website, it is "under construction" as usual. I clicked on one link, I can't recall which, it said "ever feel like you're in the wrong place? With some guy with a Hawaiian shirt and everyone else in evening attire. I thought to myself, yeah, for 13 years, get out of this cult quick. The NTCC in Graham will suck the life out of you. In every way imaginable. The longer you stay, the more joy they steal from you. And yes, we did allow it...
I just read my last post and I think it was kind of harsh but please, no one take any offense as no offense was intended. I'm just tired of the NTCC and everything having to do with it. I don't regret the time I've dedicated to this blog and I'm certain that folks have been helped as a result. It's just time to move on y'all. I hope others take up the cause. A few years from a couple moderators and a few years for a couple others and the word keeps getting out. For it to work most effectively, it must be an open forum with NO comment moderating. I'm getting a lot more since I haven't been spend so much time on this blog. Life is good.
Chief
Chief, everything you said is totally understandable. I will be back on this blog. I read it as much as I can, leaving comments and questions have been an important tool in really understanding the indiscretions of this cult and why in good conscience I could no longer go to the Graham church.
I hope all u x ntcc ers are involved in good
solid well balanced word preaching/teaching soul winning churches that has a
vision and love for people, thats how to get over all that stuff! Dwelling on the
past will eat u up inside, and make u bitter.
talking about the past and not letting it stay inside is not the same as dwelling in the past.
exposing the ntcc hypocrites and liars is not dwelling in the past.
realizing what one experienced and getting help by talking with others and getting it off ones chest is not dwelling in the past.
finding a church with a vision and love for people is nice but it is not the solution.
A church is not a solution.
Putting God first, realizing what the Bible says and obeying that over ANY and All churches is the solution.
Not being fearful of man is the solution.
NTCCers are fearful of davis and kekel and the others and the Bible says fear of man brings a snare.
Network23
The thing that keeps me from being bitter is thankfulness for the fact that I was delivered from the NTCC brood of vipers. Like some of my old friends, I could still be trapped in the borg, mindlessly parroting the inane BS spouted by the "leadership." Instead, I am free and enjoying life. But the bible does admonish us to remember them that are in bonds, so I'm careful to sound the warning whenever an opportunity arises. Much human misery is averted every time someone leaves NTCC, or is persuaded not to get involved. To that end, this blog has been very effective, and I'm glad to see it stand as a testament against the org's hypocrisy and religious humbuggery.
NTCC is an idol that needs smashing.
Excerpt from and email and xntcc'r sent. not sure if they wanted their names posted but the news person is interested and would like more people to talk to.
if you are interested, be sure to only state fact and if something is suspected but can't be proven, be sure to state so.
We are interested in looking into the story you sent us about New Testament Christian Church more.
Would you be willing to talk to us on camera?
Do you know any other people involved that would be willing to talk to us as well?
Is this still going on today?
Thanks!
Amanda Lane
KOMO-TV
Problem Solvers Assistant
(206)404-4047
Wow, someone from KOMO Problem Solvers is willing to speak with X NTCC people. This is good, I wish I could talk and be on camera about this cult. To those of you who watch TV, this is a reputable news segment on KOMO here in the Seattle, Washington area.
We should definately get involved here in some way to get the word out on TV no less. This is a great opportunity to get the message out to the masses in Washington state where this church's headquarters is. Please call this person listed above and give her your story. This is ligit. I am going to, however, for reasons I cannot specify I need to remain anonymous... but if she is willing to take my story I will tell her all she needs to know. Chief, Vick, Don and Ange should definately call this news reporter.
I hope all u x ntcc ers are involved in good
solid well balanced word preaching/teaching soul winning churches that has a
vision and love for people, thats how to get over all that stuff! Dwelling on the
past will eat u up inside, and make u bitter.
Pa-leeze.
What would all u folks like to c done to ntcc?
Changes in leadership, policies, rules? How about all those souls in all the churches? Cast
them all into the street? Doesn't the BS groom
many for minisstry? Didn't many of you get saved
there ? Just a question.
If every church was shut down and all of the leadership in Graham were hauled off to jail it would be too kind. The souls would be better off without the ntcc than they would be with them. Can't God keep them without the ntcc? Many of the churches have a track record of impropriety anyway and we all know that God can not bless sin. I would submit to you that the souls in the ntcc would be much better off going to a normal church once or twice a week.
People that go to the ntcc are a lot worse off than people that don't. I got saved in the ntcc, but I also got destroyed there. It is not a healthy environment for a Christian. It reminds me of a situation where an abusive father beats his wife and children. He might provide for them financially and give them food, shelter and clothing, but if he doesn't love them they will end up with permanent scars. Victims of many types of abuse often end up with issues that last a lifetime and you can see this in the X-er community.
This blog has been a God-send and a place of refuge for folks to share their experiences. We have our own blog but we come here frequently and it has been therapeutic in many ways.
DnA
Chief,
We have enjoyed your blog and will miss your commentary. We definitely understand you wanting your life not to revolve around the ntcc anymore. Thank you for the huge contribution of your time and energy that you have committed to this cause. You have helped us and many others with your common sense approach to exposing the crooks in the ntcc for what they are. We are happy for all the good things that have come your way and we wish you the best.
We are winning!
Don and Ange
Thanks you D&A. Have a good one.
Jeff
How about all those souls in all the churches?
They are not right anyway. They are following the example of their leaders who are miserably lost. The souls in the churches would be better off with no church than with the ntcc.
Chief, I called your home number you had listed on a previous thread, I left you a message, are you willing to talk to KOMO problem solvers in Seattle Washington. This is a huge opportunity to get the word out in Washington about the NTCC. KOMO has a local Seattle news channel here in Washington, if this could be your last effort regarding the NTCC, it could not have come at a better time.
I know you want out of this blog, but please can you and some of the other people who frequent this blog contact the person listed above. I am an X member and I definately will call her. The NTCC affected my life greatly and I was just a member. Please contact her so that we can possibly get the NTCC exposed on a State and national level. Problem solvers will run a story about the NTCC if we can give factual accounts of what goes on behind the fence in Graham.
FYI, I drove by the Wednesday night bible study last night and saw the people driving to the church in Graham, and who should I see, Tanya Keckel driving a beautiful Mercedes SUV. Our tithe dollars hard at work to pay for their luxuries. Please call Amanda listed above. I know I will.
I would try to keep that information off the blog, the BORG operators frequently view this information. All they need is to know if something like that was to happen, they would hunker down, and blow it off like your the crazy ones...
They did the same thing to Bruce Smith, for his work on, "the church behind the fence..."
Bill Clinton taught the Left that if you deny something long enough, it goes away... and if you lie about others long enough, the lie becomes the story, and eventually,
the truth.
Don and Ange, I agree with you, people can say "just get over it and forget it" but there is lasting programming that needs to be erased or dealt with. This blog is a way to help with the deprogramming that needs to be done if you want to lead a somewhat "Normal" life after leaving the NTCC. God only knows the abnormal life we lead while in the NTCC. I speak from experience.
Rev. Kinson said that Bruce Smiths story where all "lies". I believe Bruce Smith went to great lengths to tell the truth. Let them tell their congregation it is all lies, we know better.
Rev. Kinson said that Bruce Smiths story where all "lies".
"Rev" Kinson's life is a lie!
someone asked what do x'ntcc'rs want. 1.We want to warn and protect others about the hypocrisy, lies, and abuse of people so that they wont fall into the traps of this cult.
2. We want to point of the hypocrisy of the leaders. Yes, many churches have hypocritcal lying leaders, but we were effected by this one and in this day and age, one doesn't have to go off the deep end and be "alone" by themselves. We have a platform to talk about it.
Jesus exposed people in the bible as liars, vipers, hypocrites... so why is it so different if someone does it in this day and age ?
Is it because it might offend someone ? Because it isn't politically correct ?
NTCC is just a real estate company operating as a church.
Just because you get saved at NTCC doesn't mean that that is the only place God is. Nor does it mean that they are holy and righteous.
You may have become saved and you are touched or blessed when you hear Gods Word. It is God, not kekel or kinson, or davis or whomever.
The Bible School doesn't really prepare anyone for ministry. That's just something to get more money perhaps and students think they are getting something from it.
This is Edison Carter
coming to you live and direct
from Network 23.
I'm going to dig out my B.Th diploma and hang it on the bathroom wall, right by the toilet. I can't believe I expended all that effort for such a worthless piece of paper.
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