The NTCC leadership didn't have a problem with him as long as Denis pushed one of these to Graham after every church service. He was the greatest but then came the spit.
Thread originally posted on 4-10-09
Thread #15 I don’t even know where to begin but here we go. When the split took place I was attending church services with the NTCC in Columbus Georgia. Columbus Georgia was significant where the split was concerned because Ron Denis had spent a substantial amount of time in Columbus during a few month period leading right up to the day of the Split. Denis was doing much of his departure planning in and around Savannah Georgia at that time which resulted in him going back and forth to Columbus because it was close. J. Hunt was the pastor of the Columbus church and he had direct knowledge of certain split plans and preparations that Denis had made prior to the event ever taking place.
What's interesting here is that Hunt always, without exception, had only great things to say about Denis prior to Denis leaving the NTCC. I know; I was in his church. I must emphasize that J. Hunt the pastor in Columbus and S. Mayers the pastor in Atlanta would speak so very, very highly of Denis and they would always place Denis on an enormous pedestal. To them Denis was the man; he was great; he was the ultimate leader; he was a great example of what we all should have strived to be as Christians. In fact I had never heard anyone EVER speak a single negative word against Denis prior to him leaving the NTCC. RWD obviously thought he was great because RWD strongly influenced the general board to promote Denis to not only the Director of all Servicemen’s Homes but also to Overseer, which are two very significant positions for a minister to hold within the NTCC.
Then all of a sudden the split takes place, and it is such a significant event that it rocked the very foundations of the NTCC. J. Hunt told us, his church members, while in his church building, that he knew that the split was going to take place but he elected not to tell anyone to include RWD. Why?
M.D. Reed and I lived in the servicemen’s home together at Ft. Hood Texas in 1985 and we were friends. I mentioned that so you understand our association with each other as close friends and brothers living in the same servicemen’s home together. While I was at conference and I must note; after the split, Matthew Reed told me that he hadn’t liked Denis one bit and they actually had a verbal altercation with each other. I talked to M. Kekel on the phone approximately one month ago and he told me that he didn’t like Denis one bit but yet his own father in law, RWD continued to promote Denis right up to the end. Why? L.D. Jones told me over dinner one day in Columbus that he didn’t care for Denis but he also elected to keep his mouth shut. Why?
Because other than Kekel, they were all scared of getting blacklisted by RWD and his henchmen. The one important thing to note here is that these people that I mentioned had no problem talking bad about Denis to me, but they didn’t do so until after Denis had left the NTCC. I guarantee had I asked any of them, they would have either said nothing or they would have had only good things to say about Denis prior to his departure. This isn’t speculation because as I've already stated, some of these folks always said only great things about Denis prior to his departure. Of course Denis convinced a whole bunch of folks to include ministers to go along with him when he left the NTCC but this does not change the fact than NO ONE kicked Denis out of the NTCC; he simply left on his own. If Denis was as bad as all these influential NTCC folks only NOW say he was, why did he just keep getting promoted and why wasn't anything ever done about his alleged abusive practices. That dude kept doing his own thing with RWDs and the General Boards stamp of approval right up until the day he left the NTCC. Had Denis not left on his own he would still be in the NTCC and no one would be talking all this trash. You all need to quit making Denis out to be the only guilty party because Denis only served where he did because RWD and the General Board put him there. PERIOD!!!
So what does this tell you? That not only are NTCC ministers morally weak unlike Mordecai, but if what they said they felt about Denis is even true, they were all scared to say anything to Olson or RWD because they are afraid to be considered jealous or they are afraid to get blacklisted as has happened to so many of their fellow NTCC ministers before. I happen to know this is also true because I was told this by at least three of the people that I mentioned above. That may not have been exactly the way they said it to me, but that is exactly what they were saying. RWD leads explicitly by fear and that folks it the worse type of leadership that can exist in any unit or organization. To fear God is healthy but to lead your church by teaching them to fear you is sorry leadership.
Denis may be a crook, (just like so many NTCC pastors) but I got sick and tired of hearing weak NTCC ministers talk bad about Denis because they weren't saying that junk while he was there. So many of you are using Denis as a scapegoat to help explain away all your abusive practices as if Denis didn’t learn these things from RWD himself. All that I ever here from NTCC ministers is how bad Denis was and now he is gone, but you weren’t saying that before he left. Don't forget NTCC ministers, it wasn't anything that you did which resulted in Denis leaving because you are weak. Never forget that Denis LEFT ON HIS OWN because you were too weak to tell someone of your supposed grievance with Denis. RWD and Olson were two ineffective leaders anyway who are too insecure to have listened to you or they just didn't care because Denis had brought in so much money to their greedy organization. They weren't willing to part with such a financial asset as Ron Denis hence the picture posted up above.
One last thing: Please don't anyone insult me by suggesting that God set up Denis’ departure because that is the excuse that you guys give every time to justify your failures. Denis was a free moral agent who left the NTCC willfully and totally on his own.
The NTCC leadership didn't have a problem with him as long as Denis pushed one of these to Graham after every church service. He was the greatest but then came the spit. 
99 comments:
Jeff,
During this time of Denis's free reign he constantly berated my husband. Many times my husband caught him in lies. Yet, when I reported this to the Overseer at the time he listened. Nothing was ever done about it and my husband continued to suffer the abuse. I was fit to be tied. Would you believe later on after Denis departure the Overseer apologized to me for not taking action a little to late! Many have voiced their opinions. How could they approach RW without getting reprimanded or thought of being a fault finder. The Doboshi's
went to Pastor and he didn't believe them so what makes you think he'd listen to others. I thought too, my husband was wrong and wasn't living up to the NTCC mold. Boy was I ever wrong!! I'm so the Lord rescued us away from all that mess.
Bro Jeff,
Be careful today as there are numerous tornado warnings in upstate Georgia.
No need to worry about a "Whirlwind", however :)
Bro Johnson
A lot of people have skeletons in their closets. There is more to the stories than is being shared. I suppose we will never really know what all happened until it is revealed by God Himself.
I had Denis as my pastor for a short period of time. During that time, I noticed things he did that were questionable. He justified them very convincingly, so we as members of his church removed suspicions from our minds. Our understanding was that he was the man of God and that there was no need to question his motives.
I remember one time he said that even if the pastor is wrong, he is right and that God would back up his man. These were times when we were all a little more naive and a lot less paranoid. Sometimes it is healthy to be a little bit paranoid, skeptical, whatever you want to say.
Our understanding at that time was that it was impossible for the man of God to do any wrong. Any second guessing of the man of God on our part had to be immediately dismissed as an attack of the devil. "Of course, pastor didn't do anything wrong, he's the man of God," or so we thought.
Those were different times, when we couldn't imagine such a thing as a split taking place. Many of us just wanted to do right and live for God, whatever the man of God said, we needed to sincerely consider and repent of any sin we may or may not have committed. No, if anyone was wrong, it was us, not the man of God.
I remember sitting there in shock when Virgo stood in the service at Graham and accused Rev. Kekel of being prejudice. I never thought he would have done such a thing. How could a man of God get messed up? This kind of thing was something I could not grasp with my naive little mind. Well, we've learned a lot since then and we are a lot more cautious now.
Things are changing and I wonder just how long it will be before some of you do more than just commenting on blogs and take your words to the streets and the news outlets and maybe even the courtrooms if necessary. I am not opposed to the organization or its teachings. I am opposed to those who abuse the system and in turn the innocent people in its churches.
Focus like a laser beam, bring your accusations, but let the hammer fall on the guilty parties and understand it is not all of us who fall under the blanket you are casting over NTCC.
-concerned minister NTCC
concerned minister,
I too was under Denis. I'm wondering if we we there together??? Anyway, there is no way I could sit in that church today. The Bible tells us we will know them by their fruit. Most of the members from Woodbrook when I was there are scattered to the four winds. Denis' oppression was not bringing people into a loving relationship with Jesus.
That said, it disgusted me how people talked about him after the split. It was politically popular then and I'm inclined to think people were even making up stories just to have one!
NTCC Minister B.S., M.A.
NTCC Minister B.S., M.A.
It is quite possible that we went to church together at Woodbrook. If that is the case, I think I may know who you are. I chose to post on Jeff's blog because he began by addressing some of the issues that I knew something about, with my background. I saw the abuse first hand with Denis and I saw the results. There aren't too many of us who are left from that congregation. Some of those who left fell deep into sin.
At the time, we thought he was a great man of God. The church was growing by leaps and bounds... and that was about it. You couldn't say much more than that the church was growing fast.
After Denis left and the pressure was off, you saw those brethren you thought were saved, one by one, go back into sin. There are still many of us left, and there are many who have left. I don't mean they just went to some other church, I mean, they went back into sin; no church, no Bible, nothing.
There are still things that I am having to release that were built in during my time under Denis. This is why I came here, to let people know that there are good ministers in NTCC, and that those who are like Denis are not appreciated. There are those who say Denis was like Pastor. He may have tried to imitate Pastor in a lot of ways, but he was no Pastor Davis.
-concerned minister NTCC
Ministers: Concerned and NTCC B.S. M.A. It is my hope that you both understand why I do what I do with this blog.
One of the factors that impacted my life very shortly after I left the NTCC was the personal discussions that I had with certain exNTCCers.
Casey Hayes came to my house and we spent a few days with each other. If either of you know Casey, he is genuinely a real nice guy with an extremely good heart. The dude is real. I would even go as far as to say too nice which is why I believe it took him so long to leave the NTCC.
As I listened to the stories that he told me, and I saw his sincerity I was really taken back by the whole thing simply because I had experienced much of the same treatment dished out by NTCCs leadership.
Casey had spent 24 years of his life in the NTCC and his wife had given up a very good career in the medical field all for what? I'm sure both of you have read his story because he posted portions of it on this blog. I know Casey and I have no reason to doubt that what he wrote is the explicit truth. If the man lives three quarters of a century he will have spent one third of his entire life with an organization who's leadership sent him down the river after he sold virtually everything that he owned to include a HOUSE. He lived in utter poverty in Puerto Rico and when he left and came back to Graham with nothing do you know who helped him out? Someone the NTCC would consider a sinner.
A down right sinner had more decency, love, and compassion for his fellow man than Kekel and RWD who have millions and millions between them. What kind of Christianity is that?
Jam 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Both of you Ministers know the scriptures quite well.
What about the story of the good Samaritan? Who was his neighbor?
The way these leaders have treated their own brother in not Godly, Loving, or Christ like at all.
The second greatest commandment namely to love thy neighbor as thy self. This was Christs greatest teaching and the fulfillment of this teaching is exactly what has not happened in the NTCC when you consider all the stories written by entirely to many independent, unrelated sources. We have no reason to arbitrarily make any of this up.
All anyone has to do is read 1Cor 13. Read the story written by Casey Hayes and for now that is all that I have to say.
Jeff Collins
Ministers, I know there are really good people in the NTCC. I believe that. I also believe that the NTCC system is broke with absolutely no checks and balances in place. It should be clear to anyone that Kekel is doing his own thing and he alone decides which NTCC rules apply to him and his family and which ones don't.
Ministers: He is the CEO and Senior Pastor and President of the NTCS. A church member would get plowed for the stuff that he has gotten away with and it is nepotism and a double standard. It is also corruption and that is exactly why Denis was able to go so far and get away with the things that he did. Friends the entire NTCC leadership dropped the ball and let down a whole lot of souls and messed up a whole lot of lives.
Why? Because their entire organization promoted absolutely no system of checks and balances and Denis was able to do his own thing UNCHECKED and I'm telling you this because I can see it plainly that Mr. Kekel is doing the same thing; just in a different way. Denis went unchecked and Mr. Kekel has gone unchecked and they are not alone. There are pastors who I know have gone unchecked for an awful long time.
Ministers; I know what I am talking about.
Respectfully,
Jeff Collins
Jeff,
I am the first anonymous, or the first of the comments above. Sorry I didn't sign my name.
idaho_spud
concerned minister,
are thinking that only denis was guilty of this sort of behaviour?
CM and NTCC minister,
I'm glad you guys are on this blog-- we aren't trying to attack you, but hopefully open your eyes to things. I have already stated that 80% of the ministers in ntcc are good people (I was one), but that the 20% of the bad ones are the ones in charge. There are different types of "bad" ministers in that 20%. There are those who willfully abuse and manipulate people, and there are those who see bad things happen, and turn a blind eye. I see Rev's Olson and Johnson as these types (2 people I had enormous respect for, before I left). They are nice guys, but will go along with whatever RW Davis says. They are classified as "enablers". If Davis says to do something questionable, like spread a false rumor why someone left, they will do it in a heartbeat. Olson did that to me in PR, accusing me of misusing our support money. At the time, I felt like I had been kicked in the stomache, and tearfully asked God why the leaders were lying about me. They were lying, because Davis had spun that lie and passed it on to Olson, Kekel and Johnson. They didn't question it, because they never question anything Davis does. I believe Davis told that lie, because he had to justify cutting off our support in PR. I know of another case where Davis accused a teenager of committing a sin he didn't do. He was devastated and tearfully asked his mother why "God would lie" to Davis about him.
Davis has brought all this upon himself. He set up the church leadership in ntcc so that it could not be questioned-- PERIOD! There are NO checks and balances. Davis has made it clear, time and time again, that "if you have a problem with one of HIS ministers you have a problem with him". This created a situation where nobody could complain about an ntcc minister (especially a favorite of Davis), without being attacked themself as the problem. Davis would stick up for the problem minister every time. I made the mistake of going to Davis about an abusive preacher one time, and was promptly rebuked from the pulpit at a conference!! Davis wouldn't even talk to me about the details.
But, remember the old saying, "Power corrupts, but absolute power corrupts ABSOLUTELY". Ntcc's absolute power authority has been corrupted absolutely-- and there is no Bible verse to justify it.
Now let's talk about Denis. I went to bible school with Denis in St. Louis, and we were friends at the time, though not close.
Denis was Davis' golden boy. Davis promoted him as the greatest example of how an ntcc minister and leader should be. The "regular" members and ministers knew Denis was abusive, but the leaders in ntcc loved the guy. He could do no wrong. And they loved him precisely because he WAS abusive and manipulative. He was very similar to Davis in his tactics, and that is why Davis liked him so much. He was a Davis clone. Now, I have no doubt that Denis is a narcissistic personality like Davis, and that is why Davis promoted Denis.
Now, I know for a fact, that there were people telling Davis about Denis' questionable behavior, but Davis didn't listen to everyone. Then when Denis split the church up, all of a sudden Davis says, "Oh, God must have hidden it from me."!! Yeah, right. The guy who NEVER misses God, and who God talks to like Moses-- God hid it from him. What a joke!
Curt Waltemeyer told me that after the split he was having dinner at the Olsons when the subect of Denis came up. Olson said, in his meek way, that God had hidden Denis' actions from RWD. All of a sudden Sis. Olson threw her napkin down in disgust and blurted, "It's not true! He did know!!" I believe this account. It is typical ntcc tactic to rewrite history once something goes bad. They never, ever admit to anything or anyone going bad. It's always someone elses fault but their own.
Denis is bad, but he was just copying his master Davis.
Happy Easter to all exNTCC'ers and folks in NTCC!!
He Has Risen!!
Bro Johnson
I guess in a way dennis was the first to see nepotism in this org.
the dennises never liked tanya or mike and were forever annoyed by their riches although I don't know why they bought the kekels first house in graham. Marjorie was always trying to put tanya down for her worldly ways and her permed hair and would comment how sis gaylord would reprimand tanya for perming her hair every 2months that is why her hair was so short but you know how tanya is fussy about her appearance, she wanted that bob look that is so popular in the world. I guess dennis couldn't dethrone kekel because he is forever chained to rwd via tanya, dennis couldn't fight that so he took off. I remember vividly rwd recounting the final meeting with dennis outside a restaurant in st. louis.
As davis starts walking out on dennis suddenly davis turns around and gives dennis a pocket knife and tells dennis to stick it to him as he is walking out.
So weird.
I've got a funny feeling that Davis was reaping what he had sowed in a previous church.
Anon,
You stated that
"As davis starts walking out on dennis suddenly davis turns around and gives dennis a pocket knife and tells dennis to stick it to him as he is walking out".
Well, He did stick it to him!!
Thanks for the keen insight. I thought Davis was not only untouchable but had a direct line to God. Rev Stevens stated "Then God shook the organization (during the split)...Blah Blah blah..as if it was Divinly planned all along!!
Bro Johnson
It is terrible how rw has treated Sister Olson through all that denis ordeal. Since she spoke the truth. And rw wanted her mouth to be shut. He ridiculed her in public and behind the pulpit. The ONLY place he will bash and ridicule someone. Where he knows he can say whatever he wants and et away with it. That fake hiding behind the pulpit junk that mk and Olson do. Supposedly when they are getting straight with folks. they don't know what straight and narrow is? There walk with God is crooked! They loved to preach about the rich man and his barns. Wanting to fill them even fuller. That is NTCC is a nut Shell. More money,more money,more money! Never enough. Keep fleecing the sheep. Until Everyone wakes up and jumps ship. They don't care,Mk and the rest will have enough money to stay fat and happy. To go and start another cult.
Sister Olson I believe is the real deal. The folks that seem to get bashed are the real Christians. And rw can't stand someone being better at something then he is. Why else would he not want others to get there pilot license. Because he has one. And has to always tell that he has one. PRIDE is all rw has.
CM
CM,
Interesting that you mention a pilot's license. I used to fly Cessnas, and was an air traffic controller in the Army. Anyone who knows me knows I am an airplane fanatic. One of my biggest disappointments has been the fact that ntcc kept me so poor i could not keep flying. I did fly alot with friends of mine, but never on my own. I mentioned to RWD many times how I wanted to get my pilot's license, and every time he shot it down as something not worth doing. But I figured, why can't I combine doing something for God with flying. Well, it never happened. After I left ntcc I looked into becoming a missionary pilot with MAF (Mission Aviation Fellowship), but I am too old I think. Plus, you have to have your A&P mechanics license as well as a pilot's license. (Just in case you need to fix your plane in the middle of a jungle).
As for Sis. Olson, I really like her and think she is real also. I feel sorry for her. Last time I saw her I felt that she was unhappy and disillusioned with ntcc. She didn't say that, but that was my observation at the time.
Casey.
You stated earlier
"I mentioned to RWD many times how I wanted to get my pilot's license, and every time he shot it down as something not worth doing".
I started thinking about what you just stated and it dawned on me that
(1) Davis is selfish and self-centered, and if your flying brought him one dollar extra sure he would let you do it, if it meant fattening his OWN wallet.
(2) Don't let other people quash your dreams. As the Air Force says, "Aim High". If your heart can conceive it, and your mind can believe it, then you CAN achieve it!!
(3) Did not God state that he would give us the desires of our hearts if we served him? I am trying not to preach to you as you are more qualified than I in that area, but as the true nature of Davis is being exposed on these blogs, one begins to realize how much of a DEVIL he really is. All he does is in the name of a buck. It's sad. It's really, really sad.
(4) God's delays are not denials. Who says your too old? Maybe you will luck out like that one passenger did yesterday in landing an airplane that he had no idea how to land when the pilot DIED flying in the cockpit. Talk about something out of a horror movie!
(5) Let me share something with you. I am attending ANCOC, which you probably remember is an advanced NCO school here at Fort Jackson. My goal was to make the Commadants list. I don't know what happened today, I prayed like I always do before each and every test, and I bombed the test with a 70. It brought my GPA down big time. I still have enough tests left, and God willing, do well, ace the rest of them to bring my GPA up to a 96.0. I started thinking, "Why, God did I not perform well on this test" I will tell you why, because of my pride. I wanted to do better than this other guy in all areas for personal and professional reasons. My attitude was off. God had to humble me. I will approach all further tests with the humility to do well not for ME but for the Glory of God. I am expecting a drastic improvement taking tomorrow's test!! I got preached to by the Holy Ghost without even attending a NTCC service. Imagine that!!
Wrapping this up, what I am trying to tell you is there is a reason for everything. Never, Ever, Give up. Where there is life, there is hope.
Bro Johnson
Bro. Johnson,
I appreciate the words of encouragement. Now that I am not hindered by ntcc I am following my dreams. Aviation is on that list. Hopefully it will happen by the end of the year.
Bro Casey,
I got a 100% on my test. God is vindicated!!
And that is with no help from NTCC, just some encouragement and prayers from my wife.
Bro Johnson
Grats Bro Johnson! Now can I get a flight from Boise to Louisiana to see my cousin? hehe!
Just kidding!
Angie
Sure!!
United Airlines one way from Boise to New Orleans is $258 bucks.
:)
Bro Johnson
That is cheaper then what it cost for my husband to fly to Alaska every month! I just spent $450.00 on an alignment and new tires for my car so I guess going to see my cousin is out of the question for now.
Just remembering the time that there was a meeting in Phoenix, I guess you would call it the "dennis debacle emergengy meeting"
It seemed that it was more of a who's with davis type of thing because after the meetings there was ashmore and mck walking around the crowd and just going about maybe trying to see what the populace was saying about this split.
The one thing I remember most is the way how they choreographed the whole affair and brought forth people that had gotten in the bad side of dennis and how he had done this and that,there was terry, devonshire,dobosi and others but then george jordan stood up after everything was said and done and said that the reason why davis didn't see this was because god hid it from him. Then he added:
"Pastor's only fault is that he has a big heart full of love. he can't see the bad in people."
Just too weird.
"Pastor's only fault is that he has a big heart full of love. he can't see the bad in people."
Yeah, I guess that's why so much of his "preaching" consists of fault-finding and condemnation for the most trivial things, which often aren't even wrong. I'd say his fault is that he's incapable of seeing the good in people, and just relentlessly bashes them over minutiae.
I heard that the Phoenix meeting turned into some sort of weird Davis worship.
I remember being in Puerto Rico, living in abject poverty, and Olson calling me up and asking me if I was going? Going?!?! How? Swim? I remember thinking, "They know I have NO money and yet they expect me to attend this thing". It was bizarre.
I remember my pastor coming back from Phoenix and telling us about the little conference. He bought off on the whole thing hook line and sinker. He boldly told us of the dis-fellowship list put together by the NTCC leadership, which contained the names of everyone who left with the split. I immediately became agitated when he made the announcement because I clearly realized that all the folks who left weren't all confused as he made them out to be.
I knew that many people who left, had legitimate reasons for leaving the NTCC. Around that time, I considered leaving the NTCC as well, but I wasn't going to go with Denis and that was for sure.
After the pastor made the announcement, I got into a disagreement with him and his wife. I knew some of the folks who left with the split and I felt that they were half way decent people who certainly were no worse than some of the abusive hypocrites in the NTCC.
The pastor then asked me to tell him what any pastor in the NTCC had ever done, that was wrong or sinful. I immediately said that Snyder had stolen mail from a brother living in the Serviceman's home before the brother even received it. I told the pastor that was stealing no matter how you look at it and it was. You don't take someones personal mail that is addressed to them even if they were living in the serviceman's home. There is no justification for that kind of conduct. Anyone who does that is a thief and it is just that simple.
Jeff.
Bro Jeff,
And Synder's remark was?? Please tell me he did not try to justify what happended!
Bro Johnson
Speaking of Conference, when is Conference this year?
MLJ
Bro Johnson said...
And Synder's remark was?? Please tell me he did not try to justify what happended!
Jeff said...
Synder was not the pastor that I was talking to at that time. Snyder had left Columbus and Hunt replaced him. Hunt is who I was talking to. He giggled when I said that about Snyder.
Jeff.
Roger!!
MLJ
Just curious Jeff...
was Synder the preacher who's messages put you to sleep at times.
I have to say listening to some of his messages made it a challenge to keep the Z-monster away!
WTE
Right on Jeff,
I remember the camp meetings where sis. denis would stand up, to testify about her hundred dollar bills, and how you other sisters could have the same, if you just learn how... to treat people.
And what about the stupid 300 club?
It was just a farse. They ran 300 off, is more like it.
I've been in the way, for quite, a while....
MM
$5,000 REWARD {$1000 EACH}
payable to the individual who causes THE PROSECUTION, AND RESIGNATION OF THE FOLLOWING LEADERS OF NTCC OF AMERICA, INC.
Rev. R.W. Davis
Rev. M.C. Kekel
Rev. J.H. Olson
Rev. J.L. Johnson
Rev. P.A. Kinson
For the following OFFENCES against the Congragation of NTCC, etc:
Conspiracy, Coercion, Gossip, Abuse of Power, Manipulation, Misappropriation of Funds, Lying, Misrepresentation of The Holy Spirit, False Teachings, Hypocrisy, Cowardice, disobedience of The Word of God, Communicating a Threat, Respect of Person's, Spiritual Adultery, Spiritual Slavery, conduct unbecoming of a minister, and Various related offenses.
This is an indictment brought against the above mentioned persons, and their collaborators, for the above mentioned offenses, we, the present, and / or the former members of THE CONGRAGATION of The New Testament Christian Churches of America, Inc. do, DEMAND, A FORMAL CHURCH ASSEMBLY, AND TRIAL, TO DETERMINE THE VALIDITY OF THESE CHARGES AND TO RENDER A VERDICT, as to the disposition of these persons.
WITNESSES FOR THE DEFENCE, AND PROSECUTION WILL BE CALLED, TESTIMONY GIVEN UNDER OATH, AND RECORDS KEPT.
ALL CHURCH FINANCIAL RECORDS, REPORTS, COMPENSATION RECORDS, MEMBERSHIP FILES, MINISTER FILES, ATTENDANCE RECORDS, AND PROPERTY OWNERSHIP RECORDS, ARE HEREBY SUBPOENAED FOR review BY THE, CONGRAGATION, THE PROSECUTION, AND THE DEFENCE.
UPON THE CONCLUSION OF THIS TRIAL, ALL MEMBERS OF
NTCC PAST, AND PRESENT, WILL BE ISSUED SECRET BALOTS, AND A VOTE TAKEN AS TO THE DISPOSITION OF THESE MEMBERS OF NEW TESTAMENT CHRISTIAN CHURCHES OF AMERICA, INC.
ALL PAID STAFF, ORGANIZATIONAL LEADERS, AND OFFICE STAFF IN GRAHAM, WA, WILL BE EVALUATED AS TO THEIR EMPOLYMENT, AND TENURE, AND MAY BE REPLACED UPON CONCLUSION OF THIS TRIAL. THE BY LAWS OF NTCC WILL BE AMENDED TO REFECT THESE, AND OTHER CHANGES.
WE CALL FOR TRANSPARENCY IN CHURCH GOVERNMENT, ACCOUNTABILITY, FULL FINANCIAL DISCLOSURE, AND DEMAND NEW LETTERS OF INCORPORATION, WITH A NEW MISSION STATEMENT TO REFLECT MORE ACCURATELY THE SCRIPTURAL PURPOSE, AND MISSION OF THE NEW TESTAMENT CHRISTIAN CHURCHES OF AMERICA, INC.
AS PER THE AUTHORITY, of God, by:
Blaine A. McAuliffe
“The messenger of satan”
aka, “The stinger”
04/30/2009
email me: bam.aka.stinger@gmail.com
May 10, 2009 7:11 PM
Anonymous said...
Go tell it on the Mountain!
What a refreshing post. Finally someone has the guts to confront the corruption, in HIGH PLACES.
Rev. Mac is no nut job. I have seen his life, and His devotion to God, and it is more fervant today, than the day I met him.
I heard a great man of God, IN gRAHAM wA, AT THE NTCC, on three seperate occasions preach,
"That God can heal any desease, God can heal Bi-Polar!"
Bro. Mac just believed God would do, what He promised to do!
And God healed him.
The big wiggs at the NTCC don't believe God can heal, ALL Sicknesses. "That's a mental desease, God can't do that."
What about the demon possessed maniac at Gadara, the chains couldn't hold him, he cut himself, he cried out day and night...
But God saw him down there, and God came over there, to save him, and to set him free. And, when he wanted to follow Jesus, Jesus gave him a mission, a job, GO TELL EVERYBODY!!!!!
God gave bro. Mac a mission, go tell them, God Still Heals, Bi-Polar, God still loves the hopeless, and the helpless, God has 7000++++++++++++++++++++
who have not bowed their knee to the alter of greed, power, and money.
The day I met Jesus, He set me free! It was God's love, shining through one of His faithful servants, that first drew me. I wanted to be there. We didn't have a fancy building, and when there were visitors to the service, some of us sat on the speakers of the record player, and we had Church.
And I knew God loved me, and these people loved me. I haven't found the same love, in a long while.
God, bring it back. Pour it out, and let the big shots get out OF YOUR WAY!!!!!!!!!!
God, send us a Revolution. Tear down the status Quo.
MM
You know Jeff, repetition is a good teacher. I was re-reading the post left from long ago and especially the one of Hayes.
It broke my heart, again.
The thing that I just can't get over is the way I treated my child in younger years.
I don't know if I will ever get over it and even now, every failure and short coming that comes
to this child's life I am forever blaming myself and having regrets for not doing it differently, doing what a parent should do or doing what kekel did with his own son, providing him with all that he could, away from the church teachings of not letting kids participating in secular stuff.
I thought I was doing the "righteous thing" with this child. Oh how I regret not letting him do extra curricular activities or for not going to some of his school programs because we had church to attend.
I was such a jerk and pharisee concerning this child's up-bringing, thinking that by forbidding secular things, this child, was going to be better off.
Please forgive me God for treating my child that way.
If you are a parent in ntcc I admonish you to go all the way and provide for your children. Don't ever be ashamed to do things that will get you a frown by the org. Just look at where GK is and where he is going and that should bring yourself to do more for your kids.
I don't blame the org. but myself for allowing my parental responsabilities be over written by what I thought was "right" in the eyes of God.
expr.w.
expr.w. said -- I don't blame the org. but myself for allowing my parental responsabilities be over written by what I thought was "right" in the eyes of God. -- expr.w.
Don and Ange say,
Dear expr.w. Our hearts break for you as we read this remorseful post. We think it is necessary for each of us to allow God to forgive us our part in ntcc; but also critical for us to forgive ourselves, knowing that the blood of Christ truly does wash away all sin with no trace of it or remembrance of it with God.
Having said this, we must respectfully disagree with your assessment of guilt or blame.
We certainly believe ntcc is 100% at fault here for implementing programs of false doctrine designed to use people for the benefit ($) of a few families, regardless of the cost to you and your family.
Having left ntcc it is so plain to see the manipulative tactics employed by the ntcc hirelings in order to enrich their lives while keeping you down and out so you are easier to control.
They taught false doctrines about even having children, forbidding it by saying kids hinder the work of the Lord (read the Borg); all the while they knew full-well Davis had adopted two children:
Carl Sensabaugh (Who left as soon as he was old enough); and
Tanya (Tanya Maximillia Reynolds Davis) Kekel
Tanya Davis Kekel Adopted by Davis
This glaring double-standard hypocrisy [of telling others that children hinder the work of the Lord knowing that Davis went out of his way to adopt two kids] permeates every facet of ntcc. Every rule ntcc makes, and denies having made, is made expressly to control you, while they break that very rule [double standard].
Please know we love you as a fellow Christian, expr.w., and will not stand by and allow you to blame yourself for their deviant and devilish manipulative practices!
The ntcc 'leaders' can take the full blame for all their deceitful practices, to include manipulating honest people whose only "flaw" was that they feared God and wanted to please Him; but did so by serving a man who told them that serving that man equalled serving God.
It is the ntcc who will have to answer to God or beg His forgiveness for setting themselves, mere men, up as idols who took the place of the King in the hearts of His followers.
I pray you soon find peace with this and know that God will work even these horrible events for the good; because He CAN do the impossible.
With love in Christ,
Don and Ange
Davis adopted two children? Not just Tanya?
This blog helps us to vent some of those feelings that we are experiencing at the moment. I am grateful that you understand.
Sincere thanks.
expw
"Kekel is full of crap and he is no man of God." Jeff.
LARCH says........................AMEN!
"We trusted those guys until we realized that we simply couldn't any longer, but by that time the damage had already been done." JEFF
LURCH says ...................... PREACH!!!
expw said...
This blog helps us to vent some of those feelings that we are experiencing at the moment. I am grateful that you understand.
Sincere thanks.
Jeff said...
No doubt. It's a necessary medium. I've been using this blog to vent my feelings for a while now and I'm not tired yet. Are you tired? NO!!!!! I'm not tired yet, Are you tired? NO!!!! I'm not tired yet. I've been fighting these crooks for a long time and I'm not tired yet. I've been calling them crooks for a long time and I'm not tired yet, Are you tired? No!!!! I'm not tired yet.
Jeff
I'm preaching Lurch and Larch, Amen. I'm not tired yet. Can I get an Amen?
Jeff
"I'm preaching Lurch and Larch, Amen. I'm not tired yet. Can I get an Amen?" Jeff
LARCH says ......................... AMEN!
"I've been using this blog to vent my feelings for a while now and I'm not tired yet. Are you tired? NO!!!!! I'm not tired yet, Are you tired? NO!!!! I'm not tired yet. I've been fighting these crooks for a long time and I'm not tired yet. I've been calling them crooks for a long time and I'm not tired yet, Are you tired? No!!!! I'm not tired yet." Jeff
RED says, ...................... SING, BABY; SING!
CALLING ALL CHAMELEONS///
CHAMELEON CONFERENCE:
CLEAR YOUR CALENDARS!!!
SEPTEMBER 27th thru (and incuding)
SEPTEMBER 30th
MANDATORY FUN FELLOWSHIP FOLLOWING EACH NIGHTS MANDATORY SERVICES WILL BE AT YOUR FRIENDLY LOCAL
THE LIZARD'S THICKET
ATTIRE: VARIES ACCORDING TO YOUR SURROUNDINGS. TRY TO BLEND IN. IT'S THE CHAMELEON THING TO DO.
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GIZ
I wonder if re davis knew all along that dennis was working to cause a split. And he allowed it to happen. Maybe he was even in on it. Sister olson has publically said,that rev. Olson knew what was going on. Could be and I would not put it past them. To be in with dennis. And getting money from HOP! Ntcc doesn't care where there money comes from. Quote,take money from a sinner or saint!!! So why would they not take money from dennis. Pretend that dennis is the devil. Use him as a scapegoat. shove any bad policy off on dennis. So they can impliment changes. Keep the brainwashed ministers in line. No questions. Folks like the changes,who wouldn't. And the folks I charge keep raking in the bucks. And the minister stay relatively poor as usual.
April
Take a bussiness which what ntcc is run like a busssiness. If a leader is corrupt in a corporation. If one screws up. ALL are in trouble with the law. So one minister is screwed up in ntcc. Then the entire incorpration is screwed up. Ntcc churches are no one else churches. But rw davis churches. He was there first. The blame can not be placed on. A peon minister. We only did the bidding of re davis. We followed orders. That is why ntcc preyed on the military. We knew how to take orders. Don't ask questions. Say yes sir. Yes men is all rw davis wanted under him!
So mike stop trying to pass the buck. Yr the big man of ntcc. The buck stops with you.
Some suck up, cheese eaten, brown nosen NTCCer wrote this about Kekel on Kekel's blog...
I can see how it would be misread, but I truly meant no disrespect toward the Man of God, I love him, he is my brother!
Jeff said...
Of course Kekel posted it. Kekel? A man of God? I think NOT!!!! Boy Kekel loves the company of suck-ups. What a cheese eater. I wonder if the suck up can stick his nose any further up Kekel's butt? The persons nose must be getting pretty brown at this point. That kind of stuff makes me sick.
When I served as a 1SG I had about 504 people in my company and I didn't need a bunch of suck ups running around trying stick their nose up my butt. The Kekels love that stuff and that is why they have folks coming over to clean their house. The NTCC leadership teaches that people will receive blessings if they take care of the "man of God" which supposedly Kekel falls in the category of. Boy does he have them fooled but there is plenty of us who can see right through him. I've never seen folks get used more in my entire life. They are self proclaimed men of God. Kekel has clearly proved otherwise with his actions and I'm not tired yet. Old cheese eater.
Jeff
I recently noticed this on kekel's blog, written by mc kekel:
"But these X-ers have been flying under the radar long enough, creeping among you, ostensibly as your friends, while sowing discord and driving wedges. It is high time for NTCC’ers to realize that these serpents hanging in nearby trees need to be grabbed by the tail and yanked out, and removed from the garden."
Sorry mc but we are not flying under the radar, nor are we creeping, but we are among NTCC'ers proudly to warn them of your double standards and hypocracy. It is true, mc, we are friends to many ntcc'ers, possibly the only friends they have that will tell them the truth. While you live in luxury and they survive off of ramen noodles they are blinded to the fact that you are the one hanging in a tree by your tail, and you do not want your "garden" messed with because in your garden there is a constant flow of money supplying you with a lifestyle that none of them will see in this life.
Ain't that truth. Mike is the serpent and many of his comrades are the false prophets. If the NTCC wanted to teach real independence in Christ they would send these guys out to start churches with church buildings that might belong to them one day. That is teaching real independence? However the NTCC doesn't want that because it's about creating a constant flow of cash which heads directly toward Graham. It's about creating a large real estate holding company with paid for buildings, which bring in a constant flow of cash, but will never belong to the ministers who've worked so hard to get the stinkin buildings.
It's about escrow accounts that ministers can put money into but can't take money out of without permission. It's about control and revolving man made rules that exist one day and end the next and as you've so effectively stated Don and Ange, it's about the Kekels living in luxury and staying put in Graham while other ministers and their families struggle, running around the world living by faith from day to day that there bills will even get paid.
Buddy make no mistake, the NTCC is about the accumulation of wealth so that Mike and Tanya will never have to worry about money and neither will Grant. And the whole time your children barely get an education and Grant is attending a secular college run by Catholics.
Anyone who can't see this is blind as a bat. These NTCC ministers are straight up suckers or they've also bought off on this who prosperity business while believing and teaching that they should become rich one day at the expense of their church members. Just because the Bible states that ministers should "live of the Gospel" doesn't mean they should become independently wealthy off of the Gospel.
I looked up the word "partakers" in 1Cor 9:13 and it means a "portion". Well Kekel has gotten far more than his fair portion and there are too many struggling NTCC ministers who've gotten far less then their fair portion. What is God not fair? Is he partial?
Kekel has you guys suckered and that is why your wives have been cleaning his house for so many years. You are suckers and I'm not tired yet.
Jeff
mc kekel said,
"But these X-ers have been flying under the radar long enough, creeping among you, ostensibly as your friends, while sowing discord and driving wedges. It is high time for NTCC’ers to realize that these serpents hanging in nearby trees need to be grabbed by the tail and yanked out, and removed from the garden."
Jeff,
How about that mc, is this a foolish and unlearned statement or what? You were right on the money when you said that the cash flow goes straight to the New Testament Christian Real Estate Holding Company in Graham, WA.
Here we have mc kekel railing against his congregation not for facebooking but for allowing us evil X-ers as their friends. I know you keep up with our blogs mc, can you tell me how you equate disagreeing with your false doctrine and double standards with sowing discord and driving wedges? I would think your followers would be more grounded than this. How can it be that us X-ers who you claim to be God-haters and church-blasphemers, would be capable of influencing your members who are supposedly rooted and grounded in the so called "truth" to leave your cult? Your damage control has won the battle but not the war.
Let me ask you this, mc. If we influence one person to leave your church, is that the same as that one person leaving God? Is leaving ntcc the same as leaving God? I've heard you say in the past that this is just not so. We don't want them to leave God, we just want them to leave your sleazy organization. Even if they
go to one of the denominations that you preach against, that would be a step up from where they are now.
That's enough for now, I'm going to go hang out in the facebook garden by my tail and see if I can drive some more wedges or perhaps sow some discord. By the way, I am friends with some on facebook, and I've never driven one wedge, nor have I sowed any discord. Besides I don't think you need much help driving anybody off.
kekel says some silly things... such as:
"But these X-ers have been flying under the radar long enough"
How does running public blogs where anyone can read or comment constitute "flying under the radar"?
Try expressing yourself in the ntcc and find out what it feels like to be shot-down and blacklisted for having your own opinion or thinking for yourself.
If anyone is "flying under the radar" it is the ntcc with its secret finances, refusing to disclose where the money goes.
Sure, they enjoy the tax breaks that come with the non-profit status they hold in Missouri; but they refuse to disclose any of their tax documents or any other type of financial accountability worth anything.
Not only that, kekel makes sure he monitors all non-ntcc blog traffic. He even wants to control what friends you have on facebook. Talk about a paranoid control-freak! kekel is just like r.w. davis in that regard. They want to enjoy every freedom in the world, while restricting your access to friends and information. They do not want you to enjoy your God-given rights of freedom of information and speech!
How devilish of the ntcc to try to control your free time, friends, and freedoms! That has no bearing on your Christianity. Take control of your lives and enjoy the freedom in Christ that Jesus' blood purchased for you.
Each of us have our own minds and hearts. God has given us gifts of discernment and wisdom. We only need to ask God for His approval and His wisdom. There is no need to go to another man or woman for permission to live for Christ.
Enjoy your life. The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy.
Don't allow these thieving kill-joys to destroy you and your joy in salvation!!
Take back the power God intends YOU to have as a King and Priest to God.
kekel and davis are no more than parasites sucking off the life of good-hearted Christians who need to recognise the ntcc 'leaders' for what they are: leeches who want you to sacrifice more so they can do less and have more ($ and power).
Don't take just my word for it.
Open your eyes and consider what you have already seen. Who has money in the ntcc? What works have they done? Why don't any of the missionaries who give all to Christ have any "blessings"? What double-speak the ntcc leadership uses to excuse their wealth while allowing missionaries and pioneer pastors to struggle just to get food for their families.
The lives of the ntcc 'leaders' just do not back-up what they say! That makes them hypocrites.
It is your choice to stay and make them richer; or to allow God to lead you free of the constraints of greedy men.
Christ paid for my salvation, not davis or kekel.
Christ gave me His righteousness.
Christ gives me wisdom.
Enjoy the free gifts.
Get rid of the lies of men. taste and see that the Lord is good.
Angela
krazy kekel kwotes . . . [creeping among you]--m.c. kekel
creeping among you--sounds like kekel spying on people and employing others to maintain lists of IP (internet provider) addresses to intimidate people, trying to get them to stop reading blogs.
kekel what are you thinking? Do you really think God wants you to try to kontrol what people read on the internet?
What kind of a krazy god do you think you are portraying to people?
Is your god so small that you have to try to kontrol everything ntcc kongregants do?
Is your god so small that you have to try to kontrol their friendships?
Is your god so small that you have to try to kreep amoung people who have left your krazy kult?
kekel your behavior is kreepy!
I'm glad Jesus set me free from krazy kooks like you ntcc kult 'leaders'!
Sassy
How many of us lived in fear while we were stuck in the cult? I know I did live in fear. I worked at staying away from rw davis,mike K,any MEN in ntcc I avoided as much as possible. It started out my friends from the Oceanside church. The single men that were my friends in CA. avoided me. Because if they were seen talking to just me. Then they would have been accused of wanting to commit adultry or were lusting after me in there heart. All stupid brainwashing control tactics that ntcc uses. After years of having little contact with men besides my husband. Unless in safe atmosphere's of so called fellowshipping with other couples. FEAR!! It all boils down to fear.
So know you got folks that are still in ntcc. they know there living a LIE! But they are afraid to leave. Many think ntcc will come after them if they leave. Oh and even if they got dirt on you. How are they going to use it. If they try and go public with ANYTHING. so many of us are out here. And would be sharing with the MAIN MEDIA what ntcc is all about. EXPOSURE is what ntcc is afriad of.
Go ahead and escape this cult. You are not alone. God is outside of ntcc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
April
April Said,
"Go ahead and escape this cult. You are not alone. God is outside of ntcc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Don and Ange say,
PREACH!!!! and AMEN!!!! And I'm sure all the lizards will back us up on this one.
I may be posting this comment a little too late, but oh well. I have sat through four years of my life in the House of Prayer Christian churches and even though I would not consider my self a Christian anymore, I have nothing bad to say about them. As for Rev. Denis, I haven't heard him say anything that was derogatory or unethical. When he speaks about New Testament, he is always saying how much he prays for you. His problem with NTCC is that many of the things that used to be preached against there are now widely accepted.He felt that God was leading him to begin another church because of the sin that had entered in. Often I have seen him tear up when he speaks of how he prayed and fought for NTCC, but eventually God told him to start over. I have never been to NTCC nor do I know much about it, but one thing I will say is I have heard nothing bad spoken about NTCC other than sin and compromise issues. Even when these things are spoken of those speaking them never seem to be sad about it and never show any type of animosity. However, when I read anything about House of Prayer or speak to anyone still in NTCC the tone is very venomous and almost borders hatred. Now I am not one to be easily decieved nor am I a naive person. I have spent many years of my life in Law Enforcement and have learned to sift through all sorts of information to find the truth. I have delt will all kinds of people and have also learned how to read them. I am naturally a suspicious person, yet I have not seen any type of dishonest behavior within the pastorship at HOPCC to include Rev. Denis. Is it possible that Rev Denis is right? Now I am no longer a member at HOPCC, and I have no side to choose here other than what I can see as the truth. Just my observation...
Typo on last post... Even when I have heard them speaking about it they always seem sad and never do I sense any type of animosity.
Anonymous said:
"Often I have seen him tear up when he speaks of how he prayed and fought for NTCC, but eventually God told him to start over."
DnA said:
It's funny how people are so quick to come to the defense of their cult leaders, even after they no longer consider themselves to be disciples. I can see Denis shedding crocodile tears and "agonizing" before God about the compromise. Denis started House of Prayer, (Den of Thieves) so that he could have a bigger slice of the pie, plain and simple. When you start an organization by stealing, embezzling and conniving, it has nothing to do with God. I can assure you that Denis and the ministers that he convinced to follow him are not closer to God that Davis and the folks he conned. They are all a bunch of crooks.
When are you people going to wake up? Denis is dripping with animosity. Besides you got to dance with the one what brought you, right? Denis stole money and people to start an organization. His HOPDOT church was born out of greed and covetousness. Denis seen an opportunity and he jumped on it. A corrupt tree doesn't bring forth any good fruit and the den of thieves is a corrupt branch from a corrupt tree. They can shout and dance in church and talk about all the compromise that's taking place in the ntcc and the sin, but guess what? Denis is doing the exact same thing Davis did. Davis has all the wealth he'll ever need at his age, and Denis is following in the same footsteps. He will use the Davis model to convince people that they are the only move of God on planet earth until he has used them for everything they are worth.
Why did you leave if Denis was so great?
DnA
DnA,
You seem to have alot of animosity in your words. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone here and I don't know anything about Rev. Denis' past. All I know is that he is always talking about praying for America and helping other churches get back to God. He always says that we don't need to build HOPCC churches because it's not about a name. There are churches all over America that need help. I don't remember him talking about money often, maybe once or twice. I sat in that church for 4 years and I never saw any kind of theft. Rather, when any one needed help, he would give them money provided that they were Christians and not goin to spend it on sin. I haven't seen him do any of the bad things I've heard you say. I can't find fault with anyone in that church. For whatever reason you seem to be bitter about something.
DnA,
Sorry I forgot to answer your question...
I left because I wanted my sin plain and simple. I am not going to try and cover up the truth to soothe my conscience like so many others I have seen. It started out small, something God wanted me to get rid of and I didn't want to. It was exercise. I love it and would do it all the time. I was very proud about my physical abilites and didn't want to change it. Now before you go off in the wrong direction let me tell you why. No one told me anything about it. I could never seem to get close to God no matter how much I prayed and I would always ask him why. It stayed in the back of my mind but I didn't do anything to change it. I fed the flesh too much and as a result, I was always fighting lust. I would do well for a while, but it would come back. All because I refused to to get rid of what God wanted me to. Eventually I began watching pornography and I gave up fighting. I went back to alot of sinful things since then...drinking, tobacco, and other things. Out of all of this I am not going to decieve myself and believe that it was because of some mind games that were played on me or that others are responsible for my actions. I don't hate God or anyone else for what I chose to do. I see so many people balme God or an organization for their problems but they don't want to deal with the issues of sin in their life. Instead they blame others or cover it up by down playing what God said in his word. Anyone can say what they want, but he said what he said and he's not changing it.
Anonymous, what is your point in posting here?
Anonymous said:
"I left because I wanted my sin plain and simple."
DnA said:
At least you are honest. I'm not here to condemn you or to pat you on the back or to preach to you. Davis and Denis were birds of a feather. You seem to be a little naive when it comes to Christianity and what it's all about. The ntcc and hopdot are both cults and they both focus so much on tedious rules and it all centers around paying tithe and giving in offerings.
I knew Denis myself and spent some time around him. He's no different than the ntcc ministers that he broke off from. But you wouldn't know this. You shouldn't be so quick to judge people on this blog. We are not here to hurt anyone, but rather to help people realize that there is life beyond the ntcc and hopdot. If it seems like animosity to you, that's okay with me, we hear it all the time. It often seems like everyone is allowed to have an opinion as long as it doesn't oppose the so called man of God.
DnA
Anonymous said:
"All I know is that he is always talking about praying for America and helping other churches get back to God."
DnA said:
"I wish I had a dollar for every time I heard Davis or Kekel and company talk about praying for America and helping other churches get back to God. What exactly is Denis doing to help other churches get back to God anyway? Telling them that they are compromising because they are wearing jewelry or telling them they are living in sin because they have a TV in the house? It's funny how Jesus never went around telling folks what they should wear or asking for money.
Davis and Denis are both crooks that were cut from the same mold. Denis might have left under the guise of "no compromise" but if you think he is doing something great for all the other churches and that he is bombarding heaven with prayers for America, you might want to examine yourself for gullibility issues. Denis was an ntcc preacher and he was a very proud one at that. How do you think he financed his new organization? Chief knows a little more about it, and others have also shared that Denis basically stole money from the ntcc to start his cult. That's the way it works.
So if Denis stole money to start hopdot, and if Denis stole furniture from servicemen's homes to start hopdot, that makes Denis a what? A Thief. And that makes hopdot a house of prayer and a den of thieves. Has nothing to do with me being bitter. I don't even care about Denis, I think what he did to the ntcc was poetic justice for the way they treated their fellow Christians. But I'm not going to recognize him as some sort of uncompromising modern day prophet that delivered his people from Egypt. His little group of followers are every bit as abusive and brainwashed as the ntcc ever was. They live in bondage and make people miserable just like the ntcc.
DnA
Yes, Denis had all kinds of tricks up his sleeve when he broke away from the NTCC. He made promises that he didn't keep, he stole furniture from the NTCCs serviceman's home. I don't care if the NTCC is crooked, which it is. Just because an organization is crooked doesn't mean you steal from it. I know this took place because I knew people including ministers who were personally involved with the split. I knew Denis when the split took place. He is a crook just like Davis and crew. Having said that, I'm glad Denis did break away from the NTCC and I'm glad he took a bunch of people and money with him. Having said all that Denis is still a crook who teaches false doctrine. The NTCC has been conning people out of money for decades so it good for them that they got robbed by Denis.
Chief
Anonymous said:
" It started out small, something God wanted me to get rid of and I didn't want to. It was exercise. I love it and would do it all the time. I was very proud about my physical abilites and didn't want to change it."
DnA said:
Why would you think that exercise is a sin? I know that you want to blame yourself for the rest of your life for blowing the opportunity to live for God, but why would God be against you exercising? Tim Tebow exercises quite a bit more than you or any average human being but he spends his life helping others. Of course the ntcc and the hopdot organizations stress that bodily exercise profiteth little 1Tim4:8, so they throw it into a sin category by preaching against it or emphasizing how unprofitable it is. It's not unprofitable it just profits "little". It's not a sin unless you allow someone to convince you that it's sinful. I think it's more of a sin to sit around like a couch potato getting morbidly obese.
But that's a perfect example of how cults work. They define sin for you and limit your own decisions so that they can plant seeds of guilt into your life. Their ultimate goal is to make you think that it's God and not them that causes you to walk on egg shells all the time. When they can get you to live like a robot, they make you a better servant for their causes. You don't question anything because when you do so you are challenging their leadership. It's all about control.
Physical exercise is one of many issues that have nothing to do with sin, but cult leaders amplify them into sin issues to make people feel inferior and subservient to them. Their motives are greed, power, control and wealth. The way they finish people off, is to make them blame themselves for everything. They don't mind you leaving and they will run you off, but they also make sure that when you leave that you think it's nobodies fault but your own. Cult leaders are very good at dodging any and all responsibility for what they preach and teach. I'm not saying that we are exempt from all personal responsibility, but people like Denis and Davis bare a bigger responsibility for lies they have told and the people they have destroyed. Woe unto them!
DnA
It sounds like you have backed yourself into a hopeless corner and in doing so you have sealed your future by believing that you will never be a Christian. The ntcc and hopdot both emphasize hopelessness of leaving their organizations. Your attitude is very common among X members of cults. You accept all responsibility but you also make yourself believe that you will never be able to attain Christianity.
I will say this at the risk of being accused of being super spiritual. If I can be saved after everything that I've been through, anyone can. I'm just an ordinary Christian, I'm not super spiritual and I don't pretend that my own righteousness is going to get me into heaven. I think Christianity is not supposed to be such a mystery that people can't figure it out. I lived 14 years according to my own ways after leaving the ntcc, and God dealt with me, and with his help, I have changed and accepted Christ back into my life.
This isn't a Christian feel good blog and I'm not here to preach at anyone, but people seem to think that because of what they went through in the ntcc or hopdot, they are without hope. This blog does more to help people through common sense and I have a lot of respect for the people that post on here. I believe in hope and I find hope in places like this. The first step to spiritual healing is realizing where you fall short and identifying lies and false doctrines that shaped us into clone like androids that acted without thinking. Once you take all the garbage to the dump, you can begin to salvage what's left and there is hope for healing and salvation.
DnA
DnA,
The exercise thing was something I felt in my own heart. I never told anyone about it. The ministers at HOPCC don't preach against exercise, but they will say it can feed the flesh so you have to be careful and prayer comes first. I don't feel like I can never get back to God, and the ministers at the church still contact me to see how I'm doing. I'm not as naive as you may believe and I'm not trying to sound defensive about what I'm saying. I follow the convictions of my heart. One thing I will ask you is have you ever been to HOPCC? If not, why do you call it a den of thieves? I have never seen anyone do anything questionable there in regards to money or anything else really. I am a very logical person and I am not easily fooled by anyone. Everyone there seems really happy for the most part (that's not to say they don't have problems). I remember when my wife and I were going through really hard times, the pastors were there for us trying to help us stay together. A few times I called the pastor at 3 or 4 in the morning and he was right there. I know they weren't doing it for our tithe because I didn't even have a job at that time. At one point I was living in a place provided for by the church and they let me stay there free of charge. Many times the pastor gave us money and didn't ask for it back. I have been there first hand and seen nothing but good they have done for people, yet so many people are so quick to call them a cult because of their teachings. OK, so maybe you know a lot about NTCC, but based upon what your telling me I can see you don't know what's really going on in HOPCC. Anyone can say what they want to me, but I have experienced it myself. I am not brain washed and no one has played with my mind. Like I told you before, I have worked in the Law Enforcement field for several years. My entire job is to detect criminal activities and people have tried to fool me more times than you could imagine. I know I am not perfect or fool proof, but I don't see any evidence to show what your saying is true. In fact what I have experienced first hand is completely opposite.
Anonymous said:
"One thing I will ask you is have you ever been to HOPCC? If not, why do you call it a den of thieves?"
DnA said:
First of all, the HOPDOT was born as a bastard child of the ntcc. I know that sounds harsh and that you don't want to hear this but if you will hear me out and look at the facts, maybe you will understand. My direct knowledge of Denis and his Character goes back about 20 years. If you will, please check out this link on our blog: Letters from the past
I will ask you a few Questions:
1. If you asked Denis to see the books would there be transparency?
2. Does Denis teach that tithe is a mandate from God, and if people don't pay it they will end up in hell?
3. Why don't any of HOPDOT's excult members come on this blog in defense of denis? Are they allowed?
4. How is it that you still make excuses for Denis even though you are unwilling to follow him?
5. If everything is so great and there is so much love in Denis's church how come there are dozens of people that have left HOPDOT that say it's even worse and more controlling than the ntcc?
You haven't made one compelling argument that leads me or anyone with half a brain to believe that Denis is sincere and cares for souls. You have rather shown us that you are quite naive and you expect others to believe that your glowing praise of Denis should be accepted in spite of your refusal to follow him. Yet nobody that goes to that church is allowed or will come on and clear their name. This is because their positions are indefensible. What they have done can not be explained logically. Sorry, I didn't fall off a Watermelon truck yesterday. We know what we are talking about.
DnA
Anonymous said...
I am not brain washed and no one has played with my mind.
Chief said...
If you've spent any amount of time in the HOP or the NTCC they have. I'll guarantee that and my law enforcement experience is limited but I don't have to be an investigator to figure that out. The NTCC and HOP are FULL of mind games and if you spent more than 1 month with either, some of those mind games worked on you, just like they worked on the rest of us. There is one thing for certain that the NTCC has given me, a far better understanding of psychological manipulation and how it's perpetuated specifically as it applies to a church.
You many think I'm out there on that one Anonymous but I can promise you, I'm not.
Chief
DnA,
Really my whole point isn't about Rev Denis nor am I trying to praise anyone. I am simply stating to you what I've seen. I was never in that church to follow Rev Denis or anyone else. The whole thing was about God. I am not trying to defend Rev Denis because of who he is...I don't like false information no matter who it is about. In all of this I am not saying the things to fight anyone or say who is right. All I can say is what I have personally experienced. I have been in many types of environments all of my life and I am never one to conform to something unless I know in my own heart it is right.
DnA,
Now with the money issue, the ministers in the church speak often about the issues that were happening in the NTCC. I have heard stories about how many of the people there were persuaded to live in near poverty and give all of their money to the church. They don't teach that at HOPCC. The teachings there are generally as follows:
Pay your tithe. If you do not you will get yourself in trouble with God because the bible commands us to do so.
Give in offerings. This is between you and God. Whatever he puts in your heart to give, do so. Do not give grudgingly, but with joy.
Be a wise steward with your money, because the bible teaches to be so.
Many people in the church own very nice houses and vehicles. The only thing the church teaches about money involves these things. They do not push the money issue a lot unless there is a specific need in the church.
In regards to Rev Denis and his care for souls, He is always preaching and teaching. He spends his time traveling to the various churches across the country. I know he helped my wife a lot when she was going through difficult times. She was fighting very serious sin issues and problems with her past. She was upset many times because we were having serious financial issues and he often gave her money so she could buy things for herself when I couldn't. Now I know some flags were probably raised in your head about that, but I can assure you he never spent any time alone with her. He always has his wife or other pastors with him when he deals with people. Most of the time I was there with her. He talks with everyone he can in the church if time provides. Now I will say that he preaches very strongly against sin, but he is not one to call out anyone by name unless he has dealt with them several times and they refuse to change. Even when he is dealing with people he always tries to help them out of the problem. They say that that is the difference between conviction and condemnation. Both show you that you are wrong, but conviction is presented in a way that gives you the opportunity to change.
They preach against sin very strongly there. I suppose that is why many people who come are offended. The same thing was with Jesus. The vast majority of the people in his time took offense to his teachings. They hated him so much that they crucified him. They found fault with him because they did not understand what he was trying to do. Often people misunderstand what God is doing. He knows man and their nature, so he provided them a way of escape. The problem is man wants his own way. When presented with God's way, many people reject it or create their own form of worship to soothe their conscience.
I believe that this is what has happened here... NTCC started out the way God wanted, but pride got to the leadership of the church and they stopped listening to God. Because they refused to listen, his spirit left them and his love with it. Without love in their heart, they hurt many people. They like the Pharisees began looking at the letter of the law and not the spirit. Now without God, greed came in. I'm sure there were plenty of people who were sincere were damaged by this. If this is the case, would it be so hard to believe that Rev Denis was fighting this all along, and God told him to leave?
Ok so now you have the issue of theft. I don't know what is involved with the property and money during the split. But who did the money and property belong to? If it belonged to God and He told Rev Denis to use it, would that make him a thief? Is it hard to believe that this same thing has happened to many churches throughout history? Paul was always dealing with issues in the churches, so we know they have always been there.
In all of this one thing is sure and that is God's word.
I know that it is twisted often by people for their benefit, but God has to have faithful people out there somewhere. I have never seen a contradiction of scripture at HOPCC in the clergy. The things spoken there are always about studying God's word, prayer, and reaching the lost. Every day there is something going on at that church involving those three things. Now even a random person on the street will tell you that the world is becoming more evil. In times like these, why would it be a bad idea to spend the majority of your time eliminating unneeded things and making yourself stronger in God? That is what they teach at HOPCC. Some may call it bondage because of what they teach, but what are you taking with you when you die? Isn't everything material going to burn up? Look at the life of Jesus and the disciples. What did they spend their time doing? No one understood it then and as a matter of fact some called them crazy and even worse spoke evil of them. It doesn't surprise me that this happens now.
Now I know that you’re probably thinking something about cults and all of that, but one thing that is common in cults is sexual immorality and criminal activity that is a result of twisted scripture. None of that is there. I have only seen good in that place.
So why am I not there? I already told you before. My choices have led me here and that has nothing to do with Rev Denis or the church being wrong. I thing the worst state you can be in is when you see evil as good and good as evil.
Many things there are different at HOPCC than what I hear about from NTCC. Children are a blessing they say and are involved in many activities. They have vacation bible school every year and a children’s choir that sings in the services. I heard that in NTCC they would berate you for having children. What is going on there isn't what you think.
I read your info on the blog, but I don't see anything leading me to believe it was Rev Denis that ran him off. In fact his own words were neutral about Rev Denis. He just stated what Rev Denis had told him. I have heard form ministers at HOPCC about how the NTCC would run you off if you disputed with them. I personally know plenty of people who have disputed in HOPCC and they were not run off. In fact they wouldn't preach at them if he was in a state like he was in that letter. They would have tried to help him. I know because this man reminds me of my wife and I think of all the things they did to help her. She still goes to HOPCC. When people leave HOPCC they leave on their own. No one runs them off. No one knows what Rev Denis did to help that man but the two of them. Perhaps the issue the man had was a call to preach that he was fighting because he wanted to be SF. Maybe he was running from it. If the NTCC was like I heard, I don't find it hard to believe they refused to fellowship with him. If Rev Denis tried to help him, perhaps the board refused. Maybe his hands were tied. Or maybe there is more to the story than you know. I will say this though, no one is ever disfellowshipped from HOPCC unless they are in serious sin and refuse to change or they are hurting others. I have rarely seen that. He kept talking about how he was looking for an answer on what to do and he kept feeling that he should go back to the church. If he was really sincere and wanted God why would God not give him an answer? I’m not saying he wasn’t sincere or anything because it sounded like he was. God is not cruel and I believe that if someone really wants him he will override any type of brain washing or bad teachings. Perhaps here God was trying to salvage NTCC and it was where he wanted this man to go at that time. I’m sure not everyone in that church was bad. I imagine it was a large portion of the leadership of the church that failed.
Anonymous said:
"Really my whole point isn't about Rev Denis nor am I trying to praise anyone. I am simply stating to you what I've seen."
DnA said:
What you've seen is very similar to what we have seen, but you don't recognize it for what it is. Everything you have said about Denis and how wonderful he is, and how all he does is travel across the country helping people and praying for people is exactly the same jargon you hear about Davis, Kekel and even other cult leaders from their brainwashed cult members.
Abuse victims always try to justify the actions of their abusers and they make excuses for them and they don't look at anything they do as being abusive. In the spiritual realm this is true also.
We are not out here trying to convince people to leave God or love Him any less. We are not promoting compromise or sin. But the ntcc and hopdot are both extremely religious organizations that use very controlling and manipulative measures to keep people living in deception. You don't see this because you have bought into the portions of their doctrine that they want you to believe. Brainwashing in many cases goes far beyond your church experience and this is a perfect example. Not only do they control people that are members, but they control them after they leave. People are afraid to think for themselves and seek out true Christianity. They believe that Christianity has to fall into the parameters of what their controlling cult leaders taught them.
There was a time when I thought Denis was a pretty swell guy. He is a mirror image of Davis and many of the ntcc leaders. Although you confess that you have never been around the ntcc, you have implied that the ntcc is a sinful and backsliden organization. So either you believe our testimony about the ntcc, or you believe Denis. Davis did the same thing Denis did, decades earlier when he left the Pentecostal Church of God. He accused them of compromise and said that God called him to raise up a "holiness" organization.
DnA
DnA
Anonymous said:
"Pay your tithe. If you do not you will get yourself in trouble with God because the bible commands us to do so."
DnA said:
This is standard cult doctrine and it is old testament law that cult leaders use to finance their exploits. The bible does not tell us to pay our tithe, it told old testament Jews to bring 10% of their agricultural increase once every three years to the Levites.
In the ntcc and hopdot tithe is falsely defined as 10% of your income and is a prerequisite for being a Christian. Can you show me one instance in the Bible where Jesus required anyone to pay their tithe? No you can't. Can you show me one instance where anyone in the New Testament required tithe to be payed by Christians? No you can't. The ntcc and hopdot both make tithe a heaven and hell issue. There is no wiggle room. Try not paying your tithe and see how comfortable they allow you to be in your church. Sell all you have and give to the poor, but if you don't give Denis or his Den of Thieves their cut, you will not have a place in heaven, nor will you be welcome in their church. Same with the ntcc.
DnA
Anonymous said:
"They preach against sin very strongly there. I suppose that is why many people who come are offended. The same thing was with Jesus."
DnA said:
This is another area that separates real Christian churches from the Denis and Davis cults. "They preach against sin very strongly here" usually means that they call out sin by name. Jesus did preach against sin but most of His disdain was towards the religious hypocrites of that time, which were Pharisees and Scribes. They bound heavy burdens upon people that were grievous and they themselves would not lift them with one finger. The definition of sin in the ntcc and hopdot organizations is not the same as what Jesus preached against.
"Holiness" is another man made doctrine that is similar to tithe and is used as a control measure to manipulate people. How many times did you see Jesus telling people what to wear? None, except when he blasted the Pharisees which were the ntcc/hopdot equivalent of that day, for wearing long robes and desiring the praise of men.
Dresses and not wearing make-up are man made doctrines that are no where to be found in the new testament or the old. Jewelry is also questionable in that if you are going to adorn yourself with ear rings or a necklace, whats the difference in wearing a watch or a ring. They are a bunch of hypocrites that act like they are holy and righteous but it's all about money. Don't be decieved.
DnA
I can go on and on and tear down every point you used to justify Denis and the Hopdot, but it would do no good. Unless a person allows themselves to look at both sides and accepts that they have been lied to, they will never see the truth. You are no different than the vast majority of current ntcc members that refuse to believe they are in a cult except for the fact that many of them are attempting to live a Christian life and you are not. You can not tell an ntcc'r that they are in a cult, they will not accept it. I did not accept it when I was under their control. I had the same exact arguments that you have now. It took 13 years of allowing the strict ntcc rules to govern my life and another 14 years of living my own life without God to realize that I needed God's grace and mercy. There is no substitute for God's love and Grace. You will never find peace in an organization that requires you to work your way into heaven. Work is a result of Grace, not the other way around.
I wish you the best and most of all I hope that one day you will open your heart to God, instead of a man. It's not meant to be as difficult as people make it. I will promise you this, God is long suffering and not willing that any should parish. He came not to condemn the world. I hope that you haven't cornered yourself into the position that the only way you'll ever have salvation is to go back to Hop. There are many sincere Christians out there that are not out for a buck or to accumulate wealth and power. Don't accept teachings because they sound powerful and right but actually study them out and see for yourself.
Best wishes,
DnA
DnA,
Thanks for the input and advice, although I must follow what I feel in my heart is right. Best wishes to you also.
Jamie
What is not being said is that these people with the nice cars and houses don't even own them they are in someone else's name they have three or more families living in one house...you possibly cant have any privacy in this type of environment
Hello all, I was from Woodbrook as well. I am Susan. I retired from the Army as an E-8. I would love to get in contact with Reverand snd Sister Denis. Does anyone have their contact information?
I am a former member of HOPCC. Do not go there. They are just as bad as NTCC if not worse. They are all about money. For instance, why did Bible seminary tuition rise from 300 a semester to 1200 a semester when they got GI Bill accreditation? They ever just recently raised it to 2400. They said they would never pledge us but now they have a budget offering pledge and a radio station pledge. So, please, Denis is not to be trusted either.
You know what is funny? HOPCC for years preached against the Internet. So, why do they have a website now, http://www.hopcc.org/? The leaders of this "church" as well as what I've read about NTCC are a bunch of hypocrites.
Can someone tell me the current state of affairs with this church? I just found out that Rev Davis Passed away. I met him a couple of times... Was impressed and intimidated all at the same time. Seemed like Moses to me at the time (I was in my early 20's).
Just curious because at times I loved the church and others I was so stinking tired and depressed.
My name is Mike Johnson, I was in the church at Ft Campbell KY (Pastor Olivarez) in the 90's early 00's and then with Rev Maholic (nice man) in Nashville. Just wanted to say hello to anyone who might know me. Hope all is well with those who have left the church. I'm going on 12 years out now and I don't know what I believe anymore. In some cases I feel like what they taught was spot on... Other times I was just flat out confused... Never got the Holy Ghost, just wondering if anyone was faking it just to make it?
When I left their conferences were full. Is it still that way? Sounds like they've taken a massive hit from a split in 04, bad press, internet blogs and so on.
Michael Johnson
Denis and his cohorts are all over Hinesville, GA, AKA Ft. Stewart. Same games, different town.
These CULTS give GOD and Churches a bad name.
Slimeballs, all of them.
Who is this Denis guy, I never heard of him in the 90's? Did he have any sort of power back then?
I remember it was:
Davis
Olson
Keckel
Johnson
Ashmore
as the big wigs.
Not sure what it is now.
Oh, I've also discovered that Denis might have an alias (maybe multiple).
Does anyone know anything about this.
Now Ashmore has split... Taking preachers with along with church.
Ron Denis is a crazy man, there is going to be a law suit against him and House of Prayer.
None of them own their own homes, it's all belongs to someone else, hopcc moochers
Just to let you guys know, Denis is now teaching that he is God and so are his ministers. They are senile and delusional.
Alexander Schmitke is the Pastor of House of Prayer, Fayetteville,NC, he is a sexual predator. He likes to spy on men using the restroom. He has homosexual tendencies.
Ha Ha Cmon dude really?
Reverend Schmidtke was my pastor for several years. He's not gay. What are you mad he preached at you for some form of perversion? What you like dudes or something? I don't go to HOPCC anymore btw I have no dog in the fight but don't be ridiculous
.
denis is about to go down. FBI is on his trail. he is corrupt. so is Schmidt keep he's a punk he to scard to stand up to rightness
BACKGROUND:
I called out Rev Denis when he first came to Hinesville, GA. I was previously with Rev Ramirez in South Korea. Rev R.W. Davis was offended with my allegations and threatened to banish me from NTCC as a disgruntled brother.
QUESTION:
Why isn't NTCC reaching out to those who were injured and disenfranchised by REV Denis asking for their forgiveness as a result of their lack of leadership and discernment? Could it be pride?
If Brother Travis W. could see the wolf in Rev Denis, why couldn't the great R.W. Davis and crew? It does bring to mind that if the blind shall follow the blind both shall fall into the ditch, right?
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