Mike Kekel recently wrote on his blog that God, "moved incredibly again and in much the same way" during conference. How did God move? Did he ease around the sanctuary? Did God jump around or did God walk up the isle? I'll tell you what I think. Just more of the same mumbo jumbo religious rhetoric. If I've heard someone in the New Testament Christian Church say, "God moved" once, I've heard them say "God moved" ten thousand times. Think about it people. "Boy did God move during the service". "Boy, God sure did move tonight"! Folks I'm past all that rhetoric. I'll tell you when God moved. On mount Sinai or when the Hebrews crossed the Red sea, of when Jesus came up out of the water and people heard an AUDIBLE voice proclaiming, "this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." Religious people working themselves up into an emotional frenzy does not by any means necessarily mean that God moved anywhere!!!! Especially all the times that I've heard NTCC people use that same exact jargon. God moved, God moved, God moved, God moved. Stop saying that and wait for a real true appearance from God and you might get something other than an emotional outburst. There get some of that!!!
Then later Mike wrote...
People whose heart is perfect toward God want to be there, and God always makes a way, and rewards such, that they don't leave disappointed!
Jeff said...
What a bunch of psychological trash. Oh really? So if they don't want to be there that means that their hearts aren't perfect toward God? Is sleeping in a tent or a slummy motel room while Mike is living high on the hog the same as God making a way? Is leaving conference broke or without a job because in order to attend you had to quit your job? Is that the same as God making a way? I remember RWD stand up and sing Bro Saunders praises because he quit his job to attend conference. I remember folks at conference who were monetarily broke. Is that God making a way? I remember folks with vehicles broke down while Mike Kekel was riding fat in his RV and that was supposed to be God making a way? I know of a pastor who had to ride back with a brother because his vehicle was broke down and that was God making a way? According to Mike Kekels train of thought if you were still breathing that mean that God made a way. That is a bunch of psychological crap used for no other reason than to make you feel better about being broke or broke down or sleeping in a tent just so you could attend conference so that Mike could tell you your heart was perfect toward God.
Why does God even have to make a way. Capitalism, which the NTCC leaders preach to justify their wealth at your expense is anything but God making a way. Capitalism is about you making a way and managing your money so you can do things like attend conferences without worrying about God having to quote, "make a way". Kekel ain't worried about God having to make a way. As long as all your money keeps rolling up hill in the NTCC Kekel doesn't have to worry about anything. Go to Kekel and say, "Hey Mike, maybe God will make a way for you to attend the next conference", and he will look at you like you are out of your mind. RWD and Kekel have folks in the NTCC so brainwashed that it is mind boggling. So there is no misunderstanding I understand that God looks out for people whether they have money or not. That is not my point and I know what Mike was talking about. Having enough Money!!! Someone with tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars isn't worried about having enough money to make it to conference because money is not an issue. However someone who is broke is worried about it and the problem is that 95% of NTCCers who are broke are broke because the NTCC system is set up in a way that keeps them broke. It's also set up to keep Mike and Tanya swimming in dough.
Oh I get it. So If your heart is perfect, God will make a way so that you can feel him move like he always does during the NTCC conferences right? God just gets a little stiff in between conferences because during those times he doesn't move that much. It's time for me to sign off before I throw up.
Jeff
25 comments:
This is just another way for Rev Kekel to say that if you don't make it to conference, your heart is not perfect toward God, and if your heart is not perfect toward God, you're not saved.
You are right Jeff. That is psychological crap for Rev Kekel to say that if your heart is perfect toward God you will want to be there. I think the opposite. I think if your heart is perfect toward God you wouldn't want to be at conference especially after all the times I've heard people get bashed and belittled at conference.
It's like saying 'Hope and Change' over and over.
I would like to share that a couple I used to know who lived in Puyallup used to miss every single conference because of money problems. This was "okayed" by the leadership because they pulled guard duty in the compound around Davis' house and the church grounds.
This went on for years. But I just recently discovered on facebook they left, (they contacted me)and I am very happy for them. They lived in this vicious cycle of only the man could work, only a job that required no secular training or college, only during certain hrs, no overtime, as they slowly sucumbed to suffocating debt while at the same time being told by ntcc leadership if you just follow God, he'll bless ya.
Every time I hear about long time members leaving, it pleases me very much that those are a few less people lining their coffers. And I know they can finally start the process of healing.
ntcc destroys people as well by leading them to, if not indirectly forcing, be concerned more about money than their relationship with God.
The indirect phrasings and insults that are preached about not having enough money and such causes people to begin to look for more ways to make money, as a result drawing them away from God and end up becoming money chasers like davis and mike.
"like mike !, I want to be like mike !" (old gatorade commercial about the basketball player.)
lol. I just looked it up. Listen to it and then think of good ol mike kekel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0AGiq9j_Ak
nicole, how can i find you on facebook ?
dth
Jeff wrote..."Then later Mike wrote...People whose heart is perfect toward God want to be there, and God always makes a way, and rewards such, that they don't leave disappointed!"
Good catch Jeff. I didn't even realize the import of Pastor Kekel's statement when I first read this.
Conferences are no longer mandatory, but if you are right with God you will go?
What a mess. Glad I followed Deborah out of NTCC when she had had enough, and decided to leave.
Gregory
Mike decided to start a new topic about how God moves. His scripture and dictionary references have little relevance nor do they tangibility support his assertion that God moved during conference.
For Mikes theory to have any legitimacy at all, one would have to conclude that because people at the conference moved from one place to another, that was proof that God moved.
Pretty lame I would say. Mike hardly fabricated an effective defense to support his original statement. I don't see how that is proof that God moved anywhere.
Jeff,
I found out quite shockingly today that my favorite Grandmother had passed away.
Even though I am grieving her loss, it is COMFORTING to know that she never got involved with NTCC Pschobable trash or simular other cults out there.
She left us 88 years young, may her soul rest in peace!!
Bro Johnson
This is evidence that Mike K has no substance to his blog. He is off reading Jeff's blog to get any material for his own blog. He read about us blowing his moving of God JARGON out of the water, so his childish thinking kicks into gear. I have to take up for my way of thinking.
LOL! Folks who are in ntcc that do not even go on Jeffs blog are in the dark, and have no idea why Mike brings up what he does or why he is trying to defend his so called beliefs. Why is it ok for Mike and his family to be out enjoying life but many were not allowed to live the life which Mike has lived?
As we bring up the TRUTH, Mike has to come on his blog to try and defend their false teachings. Has anybody noticed that hardly anyone comments on Mike's blog? Their winning and numbers are not decreasing, so they say.
April
Bro Johnson wrote...
I found out quite shockingly today that my favorite Grandmother had passed away.
Jeff responded...
Bro Johnson: I'm very sorry to hear of your loss and I send my sincere condolences. She lived to a good age of 88 and was blessed to enjoy this earth for many years. Of course that doesn't assuage your grief but I trust that you and she brought each other joy throughout your lives. I wish you the best and I hope you find peace during this time of sorrow.
Sincerely,
Jeff Collins
April asked...
Why is it ok for Mike and his family to be out enjoying life but many were not allowed to live the life which Mike has lived?
Jeff said...
It's not ok but such is life. We now understand that the NTCC is one seriously hypocritical organization as has been clearly chronicled over and over again on this blog.
Be certain of this; I won't make the same mistake again. Of course I no longer follow the NTCCs cult rules and as a result my family quite thoroughly enjoys the same kind of life that Mike and his family always has. I doesn't seem fair but once again such is life. There are crooks in all walks of life and I've found the NTCC and the modern day Christian church world to be full of them.
You have a better chance at a good deal walking on to a "used" car lot than to walk through the doors of an NTCC church building.
Live, learn and keep moving forward. I am. The NTCC just slowed me down but they can't hold me back. I won't be getting involved with any crooked churches again, so if nothing else that is one good lesson I learned because of my experiance at the NTCC. No thanks to the NTCCs false teachings, I also learned the Bible well enough not to be misled by another cult.
Jeff
Not even five years ago it was MANDATORY for ministers in the ntcc to attend conferences. No matter what kind of financial situation you were in, you were encouraged to skip bills as long as you got to conference. If your boss said no, you could not take the days off to travel to MO then guess what folks were encouraged to do? QUIT their jobs. God will provide another job. Folks actually would QUIT their jobs to go to a so called conference.
What actually is one of these conferences? You go there to get uplifted, encouraged and come away with more knowledge of God's word. What do you actually get? Bashed, put down, belittled, that you not a leader and no good. Women are put in their place. But conference is so awesome. God is moving! Yes, he is moving as far away from the ntcc as he can get! Why would a God of love want to be in a ntcc conference where they are trying to destroy God's children?
They don't care about anyone's spiritual condition or your personal life. As long as you get to conference, pay for that disgusting food at the fellowship hall, (CLOG your arteries food), put money in the offering plate and fill out a pledge sheet. You quit your job for this? You skipped paying your credit card, electric bill for this?
Once you realize that ntcc is a scam, and you're still in ntcc attending this conference, your heart is not totally there. You can't jump up and down like you used to and prayer meetings are DEAD! The jokes are Lame! Watching men walking in circles is not a prayer meeting. You know this is not of God but you feel stuck like this is where God called you.
God is not in the ntcc. Once you take that step to leave ntcc you will realize how much more God is not in ntcc. You will have to rely totally on God to guide you, not a man and his rules and policies.
Mike Kekel has tried to make ntcc a gentler and kinder organization by allowing kids to play sports, not mandatory to attend a conference and folks take vacations. Five years ago this was not allowed. This is because Mike Kekel did not have the power he now has.
April
I know April. These folks are so brainwashed that it's unbelievable. The fact is we were also. Many NTCCers just refuse to see the facts. It's pointless talking to many of them.
Whatever; this blog is staying up. They say, "why don't you just forgive and forget?"
The same reason the police department doesn't just forget about the crooks that walk the streets. The only difference is the NTCC has the greatest facade that exists for crooked organizations; they masquerade as a Christian church.
Well I'm not fooled and I don't want to see these NTCC vultures pray on people no more than I want so see a burglar scoping out my next door neighbors house. They haven't just done people wrong; they are outright crooks who wreck people's lives.
Jeff
I heard somebody say the other day that in the graham church kekel was preaching about older ministers having money problems because they didn't follow rw advice of saving ten percent of their income that is why many of them are bankrupt. As if they had any money left. Wow!
April,
Conferences (even Asian conference) stopped being mandatory in 2007. Deborah and I didn't go to any conferences in 2007, and were able to save $18,000 by July of that year.
Jeff,
So far we have it made too. We haven't been to a conference since fall of 2006, and Deborah now has a large nice two bedroom apartment full of new furniture (some of it custom made), a new (2010) 4WD truck, all new clothes, and new electronics. I have a completely restored 1989 4WD truck, all new clothes, new electronics, and we take vacations a few times a year to visit family.
We both go to school, and can do whatever we want. We both have careers that will ensure our future; along with health, dental, vision, and life insurance (HUGE policy on me).
Once I finish my accredited secular degree by around January, I plan on pursuing an accredited religious degree, so when I retire (in about 10 years) I can be a pastor again, and won't have to rely on a church to support my family.
All is paid for, and we are not in debt.
We have no savings right now since we had to reverse decades of neglect in a very short time. Since 1 January 2009 (when our minister's licenses weren't renewed) we have been able to accomplish a lot. Life is good.
Here’s a thought…We all know how NTCC is always on the lookout for tragedy (few and far between) in an Exers life (while ignoring all the bountiful reports). What if the occasional post-NTTC desolation is God testing NTCC to see if they have developed any Christian charity? What I mean by this is God giving them the opportunity to walk right by not rejoicing in another’s misery? There is as much proof for this as there is for tragedy always being the “judgment of God” in an Exers life. Plus, whenever tragedy happens in an adherents life it is always classified as “the Devil fighting”. Why the disconnect (and inconsistency) on NTCC’s part?
In His Service,
Gregory
I don't care if the NTCC leadership considers someone wrong or right with God because the fact is they aren't right with God either. Not even close.
And even if you are right with God, you don't just treat people like crap because you think you are a spiritual leader which you're not. That doesn't give you a license to dog people.
Jeff
Anonymous said,
"I heard somebody say the other day that in the graham church kekel was preaching about older ministers having money problems because they didn't follow rw advice of saving ten percent of their income that is why many of them are bankrupt. As if they had any money left. Wow!"
Don and Ange Said,
What a joke. Last time I checked 10% of 0 is 0 no matter how you add it up. We used to go out to I-hop and eat crackers and butter with our water because we were too broke to afford a meal.
I remember in Newport News, VA, I was hauling the davis's back and forth from the hotel to the dorsie's house and to church and the Airport and verna asked me how much money I had saved. I said very little which was probably an exaggeration. She said you should be a millionaire by now, being an E-6. I agreed with her but inwardly wondered stupidly why I had no money. Then rdub told me that I should learn from the dorsie's on how to save money. I never would have been able to get away with being as tight as the dorsie's. Money was plowed out of my wallet by ntcc preachers. What a joke.
Every preacher I ever knew in ntcc was either broke or tight. I didn't have the luxury of being a tight-wad because I was the primary source of income for many of the pastor's I was brainwashed by.
Now that I am on the outside looking in and hear kekel teaching rdub's garbage about saving 10% it's amazing that anyone no matter how brainwashed they've been can subscribe to that trash.
Have you ever heard the term scratch? That's where Ange and I are at. We are starting from scratch. I have nothing but God and Ange and I am happier then I've ever been with the ntcc. We will scratch out a living and work our way up to where we have nice things at some point, but what we have now is far better then the years of misery I spent with ntcc.
I think everybody who reads this know's how ridiculous it is to expect somebody in the ntcc to save 10% of their money. When all the money goes to Graham or Grant how are you supposed to save any of it?
One of he craziest things about NTCC is the "well Rev Kekel saved his money and invested it" BS...think with me for a common sense moment:
Lets say Kekel makes 100k a year (if that doesnt make you mad your brainwashed)
He saves 10% before taxes - $800 month
mortgage (he claims to have one) lets just say a minimal $1500 per month
car paymentS- $600 month
food- est- $800 a month (they look like they eat well)
property taxes- $600 month
tithe- $800 month
withholding taxes (roughly) 2000 month
spending money-$400
Not counting any other bills or personal care items-
Total-$7400 out of a possible $8000
Grants school- $1700 a month
that puts us at $9100 out of a possible $8000
Other bills (realistically)ins,cable,internet,life ins etc..$1000
ok, now we are at over $10,000 that kekel is spending and this is MINIMAL out of a possible $8000 per month
must have lots of money left over for investing!!!
...or.. he is making a killing off of you silly sheep and lying about everything!??
Basically, to live the lifestyle that Kekel is living you have to be making the money of a top executive (200-300k a year)How do you feel about that? Is God blessing him because of his godliness and sincerity? How much do you make little peon? 40k a year? you havent been faithful to god have you? NO, you have, it is kekel who has sacrificed his soul
to the devil for this worlds goods. and guess what??? YOU are supporting this hireling! think hard on this.....your subconscious knows it is true, the little telltale signs scream at your conscience but you push it away- repent and do the first works, love Jesus, not some filthy, Leprous Gehazi.
sincerely,
T
Yes Gregory, the NTCC leadership has a habit of capitalizing on and broadcasting the calamities of exNTCCers but they never speak of all the prosperity that the vast majority of us exNTCCers enjoy. You are also right about those judgmental NTCC leaders turning their noses up on any NTCCer (ex or not) who are in need.
Right before your article an anonymous poster indicated that Kekel said older ministers who haven't followed RWDs guidance are broke because of their own mismanagement of funds. Well that is garbage for Kekel so say such a thing.
It's easy for blow-hard Kekel to spew out that trash when he's had everything handed to him on a silver platter, but such is not the case with most other ministers in the NTCC. Sure Kekel could save much of his money because he was placed in a situation (by virtue of his wife) to have far more than enough money rolling in than he needed. That was hardly ever the case with the vast majority of old-timers. The NTCCs system kept them broke. That's alright, they can stay broke and struggle in the NTCC for another 20 -30 years just to die and find out that they were never right with God in the first place because they willfully ignored the fact that they were following a bunch of abusive crooks who were just like them.
I've received 2 calls in the past 3 weeks from two different NTCC people, one involved in the ministry and one not. The stories of abuse that they spoke of were as bad or worse than many I've previously heard about. Listen people, where the abuse tactics are concerned, nothing has changed in the NTCC. I can't stand that crooked organization. Of course because I've put my phone number on this blog I've had the dubious distinction of receiving more phone calls from disgruntled NTCC ministers, ministers wives and church members than the catholic church received from families with children who'd been molested.
The stories I've listened to are outright sickening. The NTCC is full of jerks and I can't stand them. They are seriously abusive, noticeably haughty and high-minded, hypocritically judgmental and down right nasty. Now I fully understand how Christ felt about the Pharisees. Generation of vipers and whited sepulchers are the NTCCers and Pharisees. I don't simply blow off these phone calls like the NTCC leadership does. I couldn't even tell you how many calls I've received but it's been a lot. Olson, Ashmore, Jones, Kekel, Kinson and RWD have all committed their share of abuse and they are enablers of abusers.
I am no longer interested in stories of the NTCC leadership's apologies. I don't want to hear it because the phone calls keep coming to me and same types of abuse continues. These crooks can't and won't get these abusive tactics out of their system because it runs too deep through their veins. Oberhauser and his wife have just turned into flat out jerks who can't even begin to think for themselves. That whole Washington area has turned into a cesspool of abusive NTCC jerks who spread everyones business between each other. Tillicum, Lakewood and Graham are the social cesspools of the NTCC because buddy you better not let those NTCC ministers know your business. You'll get blacklisted quick throughout that entire NTCC region and you'll get anything but love when you walk through their doors. Those vipers will simply look at you with disdain and mark you as the devil when it is the NTCC leadership who are the real devils.
Jeffrey Collins
I just had to re-write this because there were too many mistakes.
Anonymous said...
Lets say Kekel makes 100k a year
Jeff said...
I understand the point you are making however to keep your hypothetical expenditure scenario more accurate I doubt that Kekel has a car note. I'm not trying to nitpick here but I'd be surprised. I doubt he is withholding 2K in taxes either. Of course you did write (roughly) so I understand you were just estimating. However where property taxes are concerned, with everything he owns they might even be higher.
Once again your point is however clearly understood. Kekel either must to be taking in a lot of money in order to either sustain his lavish lifestyle, or to have started it in the first place. The NTCC is a front and that is just the bottom line and you are right, anyone who can't see that is brainwashed. With all the rules changing that supposedly came from God in the first place it can't be anything other than a front.
A current NTCC pastor and his wife told me the other day that the standards in the NTCC have changed and that RWD is still growing. What a joke. With RWD previously making bold statements like he never missed God and everything he did was by the Holy Ghost? Well either God was mistaken in the first place or RWD was, which would make RWDs statements a lie. So if he lied once how many other times did that happen? That places his whole ministry in question. Like I said, I was told the other day (by an NTCC pastor and his wife) that RWD has in fact made made mistakes in the past that are being fixed by the lightening of standards. The problem is the standards are only lightening because of the Kekels not RWD. If it weren't for Grant, the standards would have hardly changed (at least this quickly) and if you can't see that you are an idiot. RWD just caved in to his daughter. I know, same old story.
What's amazing is that despite the fact that I did used to like NTCC people, I can't stand to even talk to them anymore. I "hate", that's right "hate" all their lame, brainwashed, illogical, explanations for everything that has gone on in the NTCC. I have completely lost almost all tolerance for brainwashed NTCC drones. Everything they say is rehearsed and none of it makes common sense. These NTCC old timers simply can not think or reason for themselves. They are truly and thoroughly brainwashed.
Jeff
kekel said,
"and God always makes a way, and rewards such"
I guess in the ntcc that God has to make a way because the ntcc leadership is not going to help you out.
WHAT IF?
What if the ntcc were an organization full of "Servants of All"?
What if rwd dispatched all of their RV's to the four corners of the United States to pick up people and bring them to conference?
What if ministers that were struggling to pioneer a church were given the financial means to obtain a building?
What if overseer's that travel across the country were to give the churches that they preach in an offering instead of taking up offerings for themselves?
What if Conferences were all about healing and lifting up the brethren instead of some blow-hard standing up there and ranting and raving and belittling people just to get some self-righteous Amens and a big collection?
What if they stuck to the bible and recognized that Word of God says, "If you love me, keep my Commandments" instead of "If you love God, He will make a way for you to go to conference".
What if the ntcc created an atmosphere that made it easier financially for their members to go to conferences by freeing up their finances and not making them mandatory as they were prior to 2007 and instead of saying that if you love God you'll be in conference they said, "We'd love for you to come"?
What if hard working missionaries were given a little support from time to time instead of lip-service; "God will make a way for you brother"?
What if the ntcc filled up their motor homes with bible school students and drove them out to churches that were struggling for a couple weeks and donated time and effort to helping instead of verbally tearing them down?
This will never happen in the ntcc, because it would involve the the leaders in something that they haven't done in ions and that is sacrifice, and to become servants. Their idea of servitude is to allow others to support their lavish lifestyles and their flamboyant tastes, while they keep people in their places by jacking them up, and collecting offering after offering after offering.....
What if the ntcc leaders were to help you clean your house, change your oil in your car, mow your yard or send you a birthday card with a $20 bill in it instead of "allowing you to be a "blessing to the man of Gawd" by doing all of their chores so they can have a bunch of idle time and find fault with everybody who creates a glitch in their system?
What if the ntcc would promote families and encourage people to "Be fruitful and multiply" instead of tearing people down and limiting them in the ministry by preaching the false doctrine that children are a hindrance to the work of God?
What if women were honored and loved and allowed to be a blessing in the work of God instead of being slaves, house cleaners and dish washers or if the term help mate didn't give their husbands a license to mistreat them and scowl at them and order them around all the time?
What if people were allowed to establish lasting relationships with friends and family instead of having the pastor of the church intruding into their private affairs and telling them who they can stay in contact with and who they can not?
What if people were allowed to manage their own lives and to work out their own salvation without a pastor who is supposed to help you and love you dictating to you unbiblical policies as if they were God's word?
What if God's people were taught the good and the bad, Heaven and Hell, righteousness and wickedness strictly from the bible without some holier than thou preacher making false interpretations that add to and take away from God's word thus allowing them to live out of love instead of fear?
If God were allowed to be God, I believe that he will make a way for us to prosper in all of our endeavors in this life.
I don't think that God created billions of people just to say, "This special group of ntcc people, are the only ones doing right on the planet, I think I will cast everybody else into the lake of fire".
Common sense begs us to look at this false organization in the light of God's Word.
Common sense begs us to take a close look at ntcc policies and double standards and to use our brains to see what is being preached and taught and to use the skill of reasoning to decide for ourselves what is right and what is wrong.
Just as the ntcc tells you that salvation is not a feeling, I would submit to you that feeling God move in a conference or a church service doesn't make you saved any more than going to a pasture makes you a cow.
Follow the money trail and you will find the root of all evil is being nurtured in Graham, Washington by the elite few. If they were "servants of all" they would sacrifice so they were not the only ones living high on the hog, and when they gave to the poor and clothed the naked, and gave drink to the thirsty, and food to the hungry, and ministered to the sick and afflicted maybe God would make a way for them to prosper without hurting so many people along the way.
Well, I finally started the 10% savings plan, and it worked pretty good. But there was no way I could do it until I started teaching in Graham and didn't have the crushing expenses associated with pioneering a church. Even so, it was a major sacrifice, and we lived like paupers to be able to do it. Drove old junkers and lived in crappy apartments and singlewide mobile homes. Shopped at thrift stores and clipped coupons and bought expired food.
It's amazing how easy everything is now that the parasites are gone. We're getting ready to buy 40 more acres. Life is good!
Vic,
Don't forget to get your mule. You've earned it.
Gregory
Deborah shunk...I know you and your sister well. You are a disappointment. How can you be a part of this page that talks about what your sister is a part of. I would be hurt if I were her.
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