Extra, Extra, read all about it. A daring rescue was made which saved an NTCC pastor from impending doom and FIRE! All you "had" to do is go to Pastor Briggs blog to read the article. Since then Pastor Briggs set the article so that you have to sign in to read it. After I posted this thread, his article stayed up for about one day before Pastor Briggs set his website requiring people to sign in to read the article. Apparently Pastor Briggs was considering resigning his position as an NTCC pastor, or leaving the NTCC altogether, or both. If someone really wants to serve God there are plenty of places to go. He made it out like R DUB and Olson saved the day?
If they'd convinced me to stay with the NTCC, (knowing what I know now) they'd have ruined my day. It would have been the same as getting thrown back into the fire. Many of us know that life is a whole lot better now that we are no longer with the NTCC.
Who knows? Maybe one day Pastor Briggs will realize what the NTCC is truly all about. The fact is, now the NTCC leadership thinks Pastor is wishy washy if they didn't already. The NTCC "leadership" (if that's what you wan't to call em) have been around long enough to know that when you start thinking about quiting the NTCC, those thoughts don't just go away. Maybe Pastor Briggs will come around, stop being double minded and face the facts. I think he's starting to come to his senses.
When my wife and I finally had enough of the NTCC's crap, a pack of wild dogs wouldn't have turned us back to that cesspool. I knew what I'd witnessed in the NTCC and I'd had enough. Now when I run into those NTCC folks I usually give them a piece of my mind. Isn't that what they did practically every time they got behind the pulpit? Give folks in their congregation a piece of their mind? Well now it's my turn hence one of the purposes of this blog. This is our pulpit and we're not tired yet, are you tired? NOOooooo, I'm not tired yet. Just so people know, I generally don't read Pastor Briggs blog but someone else tipped me off to his article.
Jeff
Extra, Extra, read all about it. A daring rescue was made which saved an NTCC pastor from impending doom and FIRE! All you "had" to do is go to Pastor Briggs blog to read the article. Since then Pastor Briggs set the article so that you have to sign in to read it. After I posted this thread, his article stayed up for about one day before Pastor Briggs set his website requiring people to sign in to read the article. Apparently Pastor Briggs was considering resigning his position as an NTCC pastor, or leaving the NTCC altogether, or both. If someone really wants to serve God there are plenty of places to go. He made it out like R DUB and Olson saved the day?
163 comments:
That was like digging through a huge slop bucket the size of a water tower and swimming around looking for good biscuits only never to find one. That whole article could have been condensed into one sentence:
"I'm terrified of rdub". Sounds like Briggs has one foot in the world and another foot on a banana peel.
That entire posting on briggs site is a portrait of your typical ntcc brainwashed minister. 90% of it was Briggs pride trying to be something he is not. The rest of it sounded like a bunch of disclaimers trying to convince people that he is right with God for having these desires to leave the ntcc mixed with his fear of rdub. Hopefully he gets wise and escapes for his life.
Rev Briggs story was funny. I sounded like a Vincent Price horror movie straight from some book. LOL.
"And out of the thick darkness awaited the hounds of hell for the prodigal son's eminent arrival. Then SUDDENLY, there emerged a faint light as though it were a candle flickering in the darkness during a soft breeze. It was the Right Reverend Olson, who's extra ordinary spiritual powers had squashed the devil and his ghouls as they made a plea for Brother Briggs very SOULLLLLL. Right in time for Halloween. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
Rev Briggs account sounded like a mix somewhere in the middle of a horror and a drama story. I don't know how anyone could take his account serious. Briggs was obviously trying to sound all dramatic as though the entire universe revolved around his decision.
I like this version of Rev Briggs story better. "I seriously intended to quit as an NTCC Pastor but I was too WEAK as a result of having to face Rev's Olson and Davis. I know the NTCC is a farce and a fraud but I just didn't have the ba**s to tell Rev's Olson and Davis that I'm out of here. So I decided to concoct this intentionally dramatic story to make it look like the Brothers pulled me up out of the mouth of hell when in actuality they just drug me right back down in it."
There, isn't that a better version?
Anon
Briggs website looks like a horror story. You may be on to something Anon. It is kind of spooky looking. Kind of weird really.
Jeff
Don and Ange wrote...
The rest of it sounded like a bunch of disclaimers trying to convince people that he is right with God for having these desires to leave the ntcc mixed with his fear of rdub. Hopefully he gets wise and escapes for his life.
Jeff wrote...
Bingo, you've won the prize. That is exactly what it sounded like and as Anon described it had the makings of a Stephen King novel with all his creepy innuendos. "It was a cold evening and I saw the red eyes of what appeared to be devil making a play for my soul when suddenly Olson came dashing out of the darkness like Santa Clause making is last gift delivery".
ROFLOL.
Jeff
Then Rev Olson punched the devil in his head while the two wrestling over the body Rev Briggs. Then in the distance Rev Davis peered at the devil through is hairy scary eyebrows and the devil fled in fear screaming, "There will be a next time"!!! At that very moment Rev's Olson and Davis began to sing, "I've been fighting the devil for a long time and I'm not tired yet".
Anon
Jeff laughed.....
Ha, ha, ha, ha. LOL. Boy that was a good one. Every now and then I need a good laugh.
Jeff
Briggs has turned into quite the drama queen. That was the most over embellished cry for attention I've seen in a long time. Good Lord! Suck it up and put your big boy pants on.
Jeff,
I was going to post again on this ridiculously embarrassing article written by Briggs, but when I clicked the link to his blog, the article had already been removed. Must have learned that maneuver from kekel. Can't say that I blame him for removing it. He must have been pretty embarrassed when he read the comments over here.
Don and Ange
Imagine that. Well in case anyone is wondering Briggs was apparently thinking about either leaving the NTCC or quiting as a pastor or both. He was clearly looking for attention and that was obvious. He posted a long article about how Olson and Davis talked to him and in the end, Briggs changed his mind. That is the gist of his story. However the funny part was that he wrote his story like a Stephen King horror story. You'd had to read it to understand what were saying.
It was quite humorous and then just as Kekel always has, Briggs decided to hide the content when he realized just how ridiculous he sounded. How in the world can good folks follow people like that? Kekel and Briggs are absolutely wishy washy. It is so obvious. You know those two might be ok guys but church leaders? They are both constantly writing things which they later become ashamed of and consequently they regularly delete or privatize the content. I'd rather follow a snake through the woods.
I'm not ashamed of what I write people. Look at all these threads that remain. There are thousands and thousands and thousands of posts which many of us wrote and they remain on this blog. Here is the difference, and folks pay close attention to what I'm about to write, (for what it is worth).
Us exNTCCers aren't constantly trying to conceal what we've previously written because we (and read closely) ARE NOT TRYING TO COME ACROSS AS SOMEONE OR SOMETHING WE ARE NOT!!!!!!! The problem with guys like Briggs and Kekel is that they've unsuccessfully tried to present themselves as some kind of super spiritual dudes but their writing and actions constantly prove the contrary. They can hide their lives (only to a degree) but they can't hide what they write as long as they post it on the world wide web. They expose themselves constantly and have done so for years. Those two dudes constantly prove (with their own writing) that they are hardly spiritual or holy at all.
OR; they are really trying to be spiritual but neither of them can even come close to living up to RWDs and the NTCCs long lived unrealistic standards and rules. I think it is a combination of the two. Neither of them are that spiritual and they can't live up to the NTCCs standards and rules.
What does it matter what "I" write? I'm not trying to be some holier than thou "Super Christian" so therefore I can't be judged. I live the way I live and I am who I am. But Kekel and Briggs on the other hand come across as hypocrites regularly because of what the NTCC preaches, and they prove it with their very own writing. I wouldn't have a problem with those guys if they didn't preach at everyone else like they are some kind of saviors and judges of the world because buddy they're NOT!!!! I don't respect any of them. RWD, negative. Kekel, hardly. Olson, not even. Kinson, I used to but not anymore. He's just like the rest of them. Ashmore, please you've got to be kidding me.
Do you dig what I'm saying folks?
Jeff
Mayers and or his wife used to pull their stuff down off the internet frequently after it became exposed. NTCC ministers have a habit of covering up their mistakes. They want folks to think they are almost perfect but we've proved too many times that they are anything but. Stop trying to act like you're perfect and we will stop exposing your mistakes, failures and SINS. NTCC pastors have been highlighting people's sins and failures for decades and calling people out, so this and other blogs are just the fulfillment of the law of sowing and reaping.
Jeff
Pam Mayers is wearing flip-flops, GASP! Was on her Facebook page and saw her posing for her picture. For some that seems ho hum, no big deal. I do know that a few years ago flip-flops were NOT ALLOWED. Showing the feet was showing SKIN! Some ladies would not even wear open-toed shoes!!
I know what you are talking about. Prior to leaving for conference, S. Mayers put out that women who went to conference from his church weren't allowed to wear open-toed shoes. So my wife didn't bring any.
We showed up to conference and half the women there were wearing open-toed shoes in one form or another. Mayers was full of it. He put all these ridiculous rules on us that half the NTCC wasn't even following. I would say the other half was though. Mayers wasn't the only one who came up with that garbage. They'd heard it from either RWD or Olson or Ashmore someone else in a leadership position. Mayers wasn't alone where all that crap was concerned.
He was just real dogmatic about enforcing the stupid, ridiculous rules.
For that matter so was Ramirez and Snyder. I've heard of plenty other that were the same way; dogmatic. The NTCC is full of a bunch of jerks. The majority of them suck as leaders.
Jeff
Got news for you it's still there.. you just have to be men enough to register on the site to read it. I figure since you know so much about manly qualities you wouldn't mind actually showing your real IP address and who you actually are to get content instead of acting like a bunch of scared rabbits getting "others" to feed you information...
Hello,
Mr. Briggs, long time no see! No hard feelings, though. Do what you feel in your heart is right!!!
Your website is pretty neat!
Bro Johnson
I propose that they change the NTCC to "NTCC Lite".
That name alone will justify all of their sins!!
Bro Johnson
Pastor Briggs,
You blocked my IP address, so the only way I can visit is by 'hiding' my IP.
The only time I surf anonymously is to visit your wonderful blog.
Give me the chance to 'man up'. Unblock me and I will register.
Don't deny me this chance to be 'man enough'.
Gregory
Greg.. you've been unblocked for a long time.
I'm still blocked Pastor.
Here is what I just got (again):
(none)
MY IP ADDRESS
ERROR 403
You are attempting to access a site from a forbidden source.
403
Gregory
Try again
RBriggs said...
Got news for you it's still there..
Jeff said...
No kidding Sherlock. Up until yesterday I didn't have to log in to your website to read the article. When I originally posted the link, the article came right up. Next thing you know, (about a day after I published this article) you set it so a log in was required. Contrary to what you seem to believe, manliness isn't measured by someone logging into another person's website. For the record, I was told about your website and specifically your prodigal son fear article. I don't go to your website because it's nothing more than a bunch of NTCC propaganda which makes me practically sick to my stomach. However once it was brought to my attention, I thought your article would make for a good story, which it did. The more hits the marrier.
You don't have to sign in, log in or do anything else to post or read content here. I could care less what someone's IP address is here. It's easy enough to figure out someones identity just by the way they write and if that doesn't work I'm not so paranoid that it matters. Nevertheless your prodigal son story was heart wrenching. Having said that it still sounded like a Stephen King story. It got a little spooky there for a while. If you weren't an NTCC minister, you might want to try a career as a horror story novelist. Consider "DRAMA" as well. You're pretty good at that.
You shouldn't have gotten all choked up when you got around RWD and Olson. They put their pants on just like you do. I don't have a problem telling an NTCC minister (to include RWD or Olson) that their organization is crooked. By the way, did you happen to read Gregory Shunk's article about wives of NTCC pastors having permission to work on real jobs in Korea or the article on this blog about Mayers getting permission from Graham so that a married Sister in his church could get a job?
For decades the NTCC leadership has taught that if a married woman works on a job, she is committing a sin punishable by eternal damnation is she doesn't quit. Oh and Brandi Garcia is hot; you know the lady in the short mini skirt who your church is a proud sponsor of so that you can advertise for your church on TV?
I was just wondering? How do you tell the people who come to your church as a result of the TV add, that they must get rid of their TV's once they quote, "Get In"? Or does the NTCC not teach that watching TV is a waste of time and or a sin any longer. Back during my NTCC days, watching lascivious Brandi Garcia with all her cleavage showing and short mini skirts was definitely considered a sin by every NTCC pastor that I ever met obviously including RWD. Oh that's right, you use Brandi to get people saved but they must stop watching her once they get sanctified. That sounds good. You aught to start soul winning at the local bars and night clubs. According to your logic they can be used as well you know.
Jeff
By the way Briggs, anyone who has any knowledge of computer networks should know better than to willfully give you access to their IP address. I don't know if you were being serious but anyone would be crazy to willfully give someone else information like their IP address. It's absurd for you to even suggest such a thing. I don't want someones IP address. Someone who knows enough about networking can do some damage with someone's IP and MAC address. I suspect you know that Briggs?
For those of you who don't know, giving someone your IP address is the equivalent to giving someone the key to the front and back doors to your house. I wouldn't be logging in to Briggs website, that's for certain. I wouldn't give Briggs the key to my house and I definitely wouldn't willfully provide him my IP address, assuming he is serious.
Jeff
It is called working for the common good of exposing this cult to the world. Feeding the information to others! That is hilarious. Since men and women in ntcc are handfed how to live their OWN lives', their fashion sense, music taste's, hairdo's, where they shop. Then they take up stuff only when ALLOWED. Hair wigs, fake nails, flipflops, denim skirts, DVD's, school sports for their kids or to be involved in taking vacation trips. All of them were one by one allowed. Slowly let folks get a real life. So they think, oh look we are evolving, change is good.
But all the change is going against God since supposedly God told RW Davis that the rules were given to him by God. So how can ntcc change at all? Fundamental Bible believing church right??? Or what is the ntcc? A mainstream wannabe?
Briggs wants to exert his manhood because the ntcc has been running his life. Being whipped and scared of old men like Olson and RW Davis. He is henpecked! He has to try and exert his manhood online because he knows he has nothing in REAL life! living in ntcc is not a REAL life!
Oh and Briggs, not all that blog are men. Too bad you don't realize what being a free moral agent is. To have your voice and not be afraid to say anything without hiding it unless you register and give out personal information.
We are not the one's afraid of Olson and RW Davis! LOL
April
firewall!
...and router (for me).
Gregory
I'm still blocked Pastor Briggs.
Here is what I just got (again):
(none)
MY IP ADDRESS
ERROR 403
You are attempting to access a site from a forbidden source.
403
Don't worry about it. I can still read your wonderful blog anonymously. I just can't be 'man enough' in this one instance.
Gregory
mmm,I wonder how long it will take before briggs gets in trouble with his "higher ups"? How long before he gets called out on the carpet. By these so called godly men!
I understand but firewall or no firewall, I'm not willfully providing someone my IP address. It's absurd for Briggs to even suggest such a thing. What happens is that many NTCC ministers get so used to obtaining folks personal information that they think they should naturally have the right to all of it, (as though we should unconditionally trust them).
Well I don't. Not even close. Plenty of NTCC ministers have proved to me that I can't trust them. For that matter, (with very few exceptions) I really don't trust anyone. There is little need to trust people. Life is not about trusting people. It's about treating folks right, taking care of yourself and your family if you have one. Many NTCC people have miserably failed at all those tasks. The NTCC is certainly not going to take care of you or your family. Many NTCC ministers are more crooked than many so called (worldly) folks that I know. Just because you wear wingtips, a long dress and go to church all the time doesn't mean you can be trusted. I don't suggest providing anyone your IP or MAC address and I certainly wouldn't provide it to Briggs. Just a thought.
Jeff
Jeff if you knew anything about computers and actual paid for site hosting you would know that administrators get a read on every person that visits their site Including their IP address... How do you think I blocked Greg to begin with? But I guess you don't know nearly what you think you know now do you?
I know one thing Briggs, you had previously written this:
"I figure since you know so much about manly qualities you wouldn't mind actually showing your real IP address".
Jeff said...
What, were you lying or just telling part of the truth about someone showing their "real" IP address? Why would you even write that if they had showed their "real" IP address all along? And why were you specifically interested in mentioning IP addresses anyway? So you can know everyones identity who visits your website? You are just another paranoid NTCC control freak. Knowing that you have taken an interest in identifying folks IP address, I'd be extremely reluctant to even consider visiting your website, (not that I spent much time visiting it in the first place because I haven't). So do you keep a list of everyone's name written to the IP address you've identified them as having? You are a real piece of work.
Oh but you have actual paid for site hosting which is exactly what I'd want my hard earned money given to the NTCC going towards. NOT. Guys like you and Kekel just use people to fund your own personal endeavors like paid for site hosting, abnormally expensive private schools, secular college expenses, over the top music instrument collections and so on. You are not a Christian, you're a parasite who feeds off everyone else.
Jeff
Anonymous said,
"Jeff if you knew anything about computers and actual paid for site hosting you would know that administrators get a read on every person that visits their site Including their IP address... How do you think I blocked Greg to begin with? But I guess you don't know nearly what you think you know now do you?"
Don and Ange said,
Where does the ntcc dig up people like this? Why do people follow somebody this shallow?
First we have proud briggs, that realizes ntcc is a farce and wants to leave.
Next we have brave briggs, who waits on rwd's doorstep for the great oracle to give him a new revelation on a crisp cool Missouri night.
Then we have humble briggs, who realizes that he is nothing without the ntcc and instead of leaving the crooked organization, he resubmits himself to them.
Now we have briggs the drama queen posting this tear jerking story in the form of a mystery novel that will make your stomach churn if you know anything about the ntcc and how they use people.
Next we have the embarrassed briggs having had it brought to his attention how much of a whimpering coward he made himself to look like by taking down his thread and requiring others to sign into his website that he paid someone to design so we can have the privilege of reading his gut-wrenching drama.
Ultimately we end up with the insecure briggs who feels it necessary to make a list of IP addresses so he can track people in the future and block the ones that he feels are a threat, and then equates signing into his website to being a man?
This is why we blog about the ntcc and why we will always have material. We couldn't make this stuff up on our own if we tried. This is the typical ntcc minister that is charged out with the responsibility of leading people to heaven. This dimwit makes me wonder how on earth I could ever be so stupid as to follow this bunch of corrupt thieves.
I'm sorry for being so irreverent and the name calling and such but how on earth can anyone respect someone like this? Following briggs must be like following pee wee herman to storm the beaches of Normandy. Man up? At least a snake in the grass is going somewhere. Where is briggs heading? Where is he blindly leading his blind followers?
Are there any takers? Is there an explanation that goes along with this behavior? I didn't think so. I would appreciate it if anyone from ntcc could please make some sense out of this and enlighten us as to why you blindly follow these hypocrites and give all of your time and money to them. Do you really think that this is the only way to make it to heaven?
This dimwit makes me wonder how on earth I could ever be so stupid as to follow this bunch of corrupt thieves.
I think you were too reverent. Dimwit was a compliment.
Anon
Don and Ange made some really good points. Do you really think that following guys like this will get you to heaven? I sure hope not because if thats how you get to heaven, we're all in trouble.
ha ha... it's just so hard to take a guy with a village people mustache serious.... ha ha..
To Anonymous Oct 25th, 1:27 a.m. :
You are so childish. You are probably an NTCC minister. You have no relevant or intelligent response to Don's post, so you resort to "trying" to make fun of his mustache. This is typical NTCC to validate someone based solely on their appearance Your jealousy is showing. You probably wish you could grow facial hair, cut your hair, and dress like you want. So sorry you can't you NTCC drone. But wait a minute. Next month, Davis's god (Mike & Tanya Kekel) might just change his mind about such things. After all, Pam Mayers is showing polished fingernails, pedicured toes, flashy shoes and purses, and all manner of clothing jewelry she can get away with. Raydeana Hunt runs around the Fort Benning gym in spandex. Change for men concerning facial hair is definitely on the way.
Jeff's Wife
Dear Jeff's wife.. your blatant hypocrisy is very evident when you chose to single out my "childishness" and overlook the mirade of like same statments from your peanut gallery.
The word hypocrisy is irrelevant. My wife never claimed that she was trying to be impartial. Her agenda is not to highlight the shortcomings of exNTCCers and that should come as no surprise. Nor does she claim to be a holier than thou Christian like you acted when you judged someone solely on their appearance.
Oh and incidentally. I'm glad that you spoke up against my wife's statement. This blog is a two way street. If we dish it out, the least we can do is take it. So by all means feel free to contend with me, my wife, or anyone else who posts on this blog. Don't hold back because it's obvious that we certainly won't. Just be prepared to take it if you dish it out.
Good post Anonymous.
Sincerely,
Jeff
P.S. My wife is a tough cookie grammatically, so you could wind up with a hand full. Ha, ha.
I'm liking this thread.
Jeff
Anonymous said,
"ha ha... it's just so hard to take a guy with a village people mustache serious.... ha ha.."
Don and Ange said,
You are showing your age a little bit with that comment. Just out of curiosity, how did you become such an expert on the village peoples facial hair? You must follow the village people pretty closely to make such an astute observation.
That truly was a good post. You come on back when you got your A-game on, now, ya hear?
P.S. Was the one with the mustache your favorite village person?
Mr. Briggs,
Greetings and Salutations from a former 10 year NTCC layman. I am a simple brother, having nowhere near the expertise and inside knowledge of the other Ladies and Gentleman on this Blog concerning NTCC and what happened 20 years ago,
I am just a brother whom NTCC used and abused and suck dry.
I used to have a lot of venom towards NTCC and rightly so, anyone following my blogging, namely Bro Jeff and Bro Shunk can attest to that.
Now, I do not have any anger, only pity towards those affiliated with NTCC. I used to be on the inside looking out. Now I am on the outside looking in.
Mr. Briggs, you have a lot of admirable qualities that many lack, if all bloggers are honest with themselves, your computer expertise far outweigh mine.
I have learned to overlook the bad in folks and focus on the good. I have learned that, and don't take this the wrong way, that some of the humblest people in the world are crooks, murderers and thieves who are in jail for life, they realize that their lives are over, and they are just "doing time". They wish they could go back in time and redo all of the things that they did to place them in that position that they are currently in.
Mr. Briggs, Have you cosidered breaking away from NTCC and doing your own work? You have the drive and willpower to be a success in God, maybe it would be best served outside of the NTCC? Your website is outstanding. I thing many on this blog have a fair arguement in stating that you drop the IP address requirement. You would gain more fans having a blog or website set up just like Bro Jeff. Bro Jeff does have a valid point, something for you to reconsider.
Your overzealous for God, just be careful that you do not turn people off from God, The SERVE GOD OR ELSE mentality does not work in a 21st century, internet educated society. This is the Information Age, as stated in the book of Daniel.
Mr. Briggs, I used to be like you, having a zeal for God like Hezikiah, but that prophet flammed out near the end of his ministry.
I have kind of mellowed out, realizing that time on this Earth is short, man I am 40 years old!! I fear God and, seeing that the Day is approaching where all men, yo included will give an account to the Great I AM.
I am what I am but the Grace of God. The same Grace that has saved me has saved you - if you are saved, only you and God know for sure, who am I to say you are on not?
Saving souls is more that bringing people to church just to make a quota to Davis. The Gospel is a Fellowship. If we are honest with our assessment, may I ask the question: Are you are failing in that aspect of your life?
I pray that you do some serious soul searching and realize the exact purpose and potential that God has for your life, even if that means severance with NTCC.
Even Gideon took a stand against the Captain of the Hosts of the Lord, MAN TO MAN. Was he rebuked? No, he was callled a Mighty Man of Valor!!
So, my question, Mr. Briggs, to you is this, ARE YOU WITH US, OR WITH THE ENEMY?
Bro Johnson
NO,that is when briggs left living his own life. The village people are the latest groups that he knows of. besides southern gospel. The music he is allowed to music to listen to. Life stops for folks entering into ntcc.
Briggs is in a time warp. he knows nothing else outside of ntcc.
April
Were not the Village People a Gay Group? Uh - Oh!! Don't Ask, Don't Tell!!
briggs "you just have to be men enough to"
leave ntcc,think for yourself, serve God not man, or be found to be like this guy
man up
Mike k. has taken off his blog. His update on there recent "conference". I wonder why? Is there something he is ashamed of? Is he embarrassed that his cult members do not come on his blog to comment. OOO,watch. I bet the brainwashed followers will know go on and comment like crazy. They will click on Amen. But no comments.
RW(cult leader) once said,he could know all about you in just a few seconds talking to you. If you were saved or not. A theory,folks do not come on Mike's blog. Because they do not trust what they will write on the cult leaders blog. Instead lets click Amen. Which is what all of them say in the ntcc service's. Like ROBOTS,raise there hands(pretending to be praisng God) all for looks. So Tanya can check out her butt ugle ring.Then you hear them all shout Amen,trying to out do each other. folks that do that pogo jumping. Again,trying to out do each other. Swinging each other around(not dancing in the Lord) trying to sweat more,fling each other harder then the other. All PRIDE!
Suprised it does not damage Mike's pride. That so many ignore his blog?
April
I never thought I'd say this but today I gained a greater degree of respect for Mr. Mike Kekel. Notice I added Mr and his first and last name. I did that to show him more respect than I have previously. Does anyone want to know why? One word.... BRIGGS.
Buddy I'd rather clean Mr. Mike Kekels house (if you could possibly imagine me saying that) than to spend one second in Briggs church building listening to him preach. Mike Kekel is no dummy. I may not care for him but I don't think he is a dummy i.e. a guy void of common sense. At least as far as I can tell. So what puzzles me is why does Mike and the NTCC leadership put up put up with Briggs' antics? Briggs is probably a very smart guy but he is clearly not church leadership material. Someone really dropped the ball with that dude. The NTCC has a history pastoral misplacements.
Come on Mr. Kekel. You've got to be able to see the kind of things this guy writes. The bottom line is sometimes, in order to gain respect for one person, you got to see that there are other folks who you respect a whole lot less. It's kind of like the lesser of two evils. I'll take Mr. Kekel over Briggs any day. There Mr. Kekel your first compliment from me. If you haven't stopped already please discontinue bringing church members and or students over to clean your house. Mr. Kekel that is poor leadership and I'm being sincere. Please consider what I'm saying.
Jeff
Jeff your problem is that you like to dish out your filth without being checked. Rev. Kekel works in a round about way with your vomit..
I stay out of it until you drag me in, but I don't pretend to aspire to anything other then what I am. You have slandered people of great moral, spiritual and ethical character because you can and they have more "temperence" then I.
But understand something I will only let you go so far. It frustrates the snot out of me that you trash talkers are allowed to do what you do with no "recourse". You intentionally try to interfer with ALL NTCC churches so you should be prosicuted when you get on the wrong side of the law. I can't make the organization take that stance when you mess with it as a whole but when you mess with me or this church then all bets are off.
What kind of a slime ball spends hours of their day snooping around trying to find "dirt" like you and your 7 chronies do? (Yes it's becoming painfully obvious that your numbers have dwindled you even stoop low enough to create artifical subscribers so you don't look like you have no following don't you there Larch?)
Johnson... did that answers your question?
Also Mr. Kekel. Please tell NTCCers that they don't have to disown family members who leave your church. Let me tell you something Sir. If someone is thinking about leaving the NTCC let em go and if they want to stay in contact with their family members who are NTCCers so be it. Let them both leave but I'll guaranty you this; if one stays you've then got someone with real loyalty.
You don't have to tell them< "If you don't like it here there is the door". Tell them, "hey brother I know you are thinking about leaving, do what you think is best for you and your family." "You've been a friend to me and I'd like to remain friends whether you're with the NTCC or not." "What ever decision you make, maybe we can catch dinner once in a while and we will just catch up on how our families are doing."
Then mean it Mr. Kekel. But what do I know. You don't have to listen to me. You guys need to stop with these cult tactics. We call you a cult because you act like one. You guys could be part of a good church if you'd stop taking offense with what we write and start to consider that we really do make valid points and observations. You never expected us to take your behind the pulpit critiques personal so why do so many NTCCers take our critiques so personal? Because when we were needlessly getting blasted by dudes like Mayers, Ramirez, Oberhauser and Madranno and we took it (for a while) we weren't as proud as many NTCCers are when we blast you. You can say what you want but many of us make some seriously valid points that are credible.
Jeff
Jeff I know for a fact that some things people have said are credible.... And if you go through my postings back on Flak net I said so umteen times, BUT the way you go about voicing your "Issues" are not.
Robert, what were these questions "concerning THE WHYS AND WHEREFORES OF ORGANIZATIONAL DIRECTION AND LEADERSHIP?"
Like you said in your article, "TRUTH-BE-TOLD" (yea, you think people would want anything less???) The older you get the stronger your opinions seem to be.
Robert, you said, "I cannot back up when I think I am right or that at least I have a valid point."
What are these opinions? What are these points? Right, you should not back up. Trust in the Word of God Robert, that is all we have.
You said, "The man in me said, no, face your fears." (what were these fears?) Robert you said, "I WOULD NOT RUN, I COULD NOT HIDE..."
People want to know what these fears, opinions, and questions were, concerning the whys and wherefores of organization direction and leadership???
You said, "...but because of what I had to say I knew I could not just accept that I was wrong as I had done in the past..." So, we're you wrong?
As you said Robert, and I quote from your article, "I cannot back up when I think I am right or that at least I have a valid point." What were your valid points Robert?
Anon,
They why's and wherefore's were my issues and they were answered. End of story.
Do you want to know about the disagreements I've had with my wife in the past as well?
The point was I acknowledged them. One problem with many in the ministry is the feeling that they need to apear always without flaw. My experience has taught me otherwise and it helps people to know they are not alone.
But there was an solution to the problem... Talk to the person I needed to talk to and that person was not you.
When the blind lead the blind both fall into the ditch. The very fact that rb has to come onto an X-er blog to defend his positions, shows that he has too much time on his hands. We come on here to voice our opinions and feelings about the ntcc because they have done so much to destroy years of our lives and we strive to warn others to escape from this cult while they can.
If rb were such a man of God he would be able to accomplish much more through prayer than he does by whining and bellyaching on an X-er blog. The very fact that he gets on here and cries about what we are allowed to get away with shows that he has way too much idle time on his hands and that his priorities are all mixed up.
The one thing that is really disconcerting to me is that these poor lost souls are so worried about Jeff's numbers that they allow a church lizard (or a charch luzard) to steal their victory. A little emotionally disturbed there briggsy? Well we are so glad that we could provide you with a place to vent your frustrations, a shoulder to cry on if you will. We know that your life is so stressful that you need to blow off a little steam now and again.
But please rb, if you can't take the heat, stop dishing it out. You devote hours of your time trying to entrap honorable men like Gregory Shunk into a copyright infringement case when he is far more polite and respectful to you than you deserve. By the way briggs you are way over matched in the intelligence arena also if you think you can sue Gregory for posting a link to your pathetic sight. Can you really in good conscience spend large amounts of tithe payers money filing a law suite against someone who posts a link on their sight to your own words? And then you have the nerve to call Gregory stupid?
There is coming a day when the high and exalted leaders of the ntcc will have to give an account for the lives that they destroyed just as we will all have to give an account for every idle word in which we have spoken. Where will the truth be found? In an organization that has become filthy rich by stepping all over the body of Christ with no regard to anyones feelings and no remorse for the poor and downtrodden of this world? The voices of us which were destroyed along the way cry out against you and we will not be silenced. Our only crime is that we left the ntcc or disagreed with it's leadership and you have the intestinal fortitude to say that just because we have left the first self righteous church that we are the evil ones?
There are many good people in the ntcc that are misguided and misdirected. The ntcc is not what it used to be and has allowed compromise and double standards to drag it down. We would have nothing to say if the ntcc remained a holiness organization and allowed people to be themselves and a Christian at the same time. It is very apparent to anyone who takes an honest look at the ntcc that there is something very wrong about where they are now and how they got there. Are we just supposed to go quietly out into the night and never be heard from again? Do you think that all of our voices will be extinguished forever? We have all given the best years of our lives and sacrificed all we had in good faith and we have loved the brethren and lived what we preached for many years in the ntcc until we were no longer needed.
What is our crime? We disagree with double standards. We say it is hypocrisy to build a church against tv and then use a tv spot which promotes the very sinful lifestyles that we were made to abhor for an outreach. If I remember correctly, Did not God choose the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe? Are we to ignore this? Not in my lifetime. You continue to rail against us and we will continue to stand for the ones that can no longer stand for themselves. We are the X-ers.
Don and Ange
RB wrote...
The point was I acknowledged them. One problem with many in the ministry is the feeling that they need to appear always without flaw. My experience has taught me otherwise and it helps people to know they are not alone.
Jeff said...
And you are absolutely right. No ifs ands or buts. There is a problem Sir. It's not that they feel they need to appear always without flaw. They've taught that they have in fact been without flaws and in the process they've openly dogged and ridiculed their church members and other ministers who've had (and here is the Key point) "known" flaws.
Then later on the ones who were supposed to be without flaws had "known" flaws which came to the forefront and they've been found to be hypocrites who've taught double standards. They've required their people to adhere to a standard that they've failed to adhere to all along but once again here is the key part, they kept it hidden.
My wife has a college degree. She was taught that categorically she would be committing sin if she went out an got a job. Then years later we learn that certain pastors wives have had jobs at one point or another all along and the leadership at Graham absolutely knew about it. How do you think that makes us feel? Cheated, lied to, deceived and so on.
My wife was entertaining job offers when she first started attending services with the NTCC. She was told she should stop. So she did and even though we made ends meet, we could have been way further ahead financially had she accepted one of the job offers that were on the table. We were told we would be cursed but now she is a school teacher and we are blessed. Certain women have worked all along with the NTCC leaderships approval and there is no viable scripture that dictates otherwise.
As I've pointed out, keepers at home means to be domestically inclined or a good house keeper. People can't make that mean that "a women can't have a job" and proverbs 31 clearly shows otherwise. That is just one example Mr. Briggs and there are thousands more where the NTCC is concerned.
Jeff
Anonymous who I think is Briggs said...
But understand something I will only let you go so far. It frustrates the snot out of me that you trash talkers are allowed to do what you do with no "recourse". You intentionally try to interfere with ALL NTCC churches so you should be prosecuted when you get on the wrong side of the law. I can't make the organization take that stance when you mess with it as a whole but when you mess with me or this church then all bets are off.
Jeff said...
And understand this. You say you will only let us go so far? Too many of us exNTCCers let you renegade, roughshod pastors go way too far when we sat through all your abusive church services. But the difference is now we don't have to and people like you don't like it. You and your fellow pastors and ministers want to walk all over people unchecked and unquestioned because you seem to think God has entitled you to such conduct but he hasn't. You guys are abusive, proud, self serving, you teach double standards and you don't like it when we throw it in your face. Well too bad.
The NTCC is the organization who should be prosecuted. You run around targeting young, impressionable GIs and ten years later they leave the NTCC with their lives in shambles and the ones who stay are too proud and have broken too many ties with their family members to admit that their lives are in shambles also. Then when someone does leave, people still in the church are told the same thing about them every time; "they got crossed up with the Devil". What a bunch of religious rhetoric garbage. No substance, just religious rhetoric garbage.
And before that you wrote...
Jeff your problem is that you like to dish out your filth without being checked. Rev. Kekel works in a round about way with your vomit..
Jeff responded...
No that's not my problem. I'm no longer with the NTCC so I don't have a problem. It's completely the other way around. NTCC pastors want to dish out their filth without being checked and when they get checked there response is routinely, "if you don't like it here there is the door". Then when we do leave they want to run our names through the mud but they expect us not to do likewise. Well sorry, that dog don't hunt in my neck of the woods. Too many people have literally wasted their lives in your crooked organization and folks like me have decided that innocent people need to be made aware. You don't make people aware with one post and one warning. You do it over and over again and as time goes on people get the picture and I know that for a fact and it works. I've gotten enough phone calls to prove it. And the people who've called me have been abused bad. It's the same story every time.
Buddy you don't have a clue. There, get some of that as you call it filth. Your ministers have really hurt a lot of good people and if you don't see it your an idiot. Notice I said, "if you don't see it". If you do see it than why don't you do more to stop it or leave the NTCC also? Because you are either just like them or you are only man enough to stand up to church members and exers but not ministers.
Its fine if people want to expose the NTCC and then after a few days or months or years they stop. That is their prerogative but it's mine to continue. You have pastors who've been abusing people for 30 years or more and they don't stop so why should I? Go preach to them because I don't have to listen to your preaching and this ain't one of your bully pulpits. At least you are allowed to speak your mind here which is a whole lot more than I can say for the NTCC. You try to complain to an NTCC pastor and the first time he gets behind a pulpit he tells everyone in the congregation, "if you don't like it here, there is the door".
Jeff
Don and Ange wrote...
You continue to rail against us and we will continue to stand for the ones that can no longer stand for themselves. We are the X-ers.
Jeff said...
I just got a little emotional with that one. I'll go to war with you and fight by your side any day. We are the X-ers.
Jeff
Very dramatic and emotional read; good writing. I don’t think this Pastor Briggs testimony is propaganda (as some have shared). He is just relating what happened. His pain and damage comes through loud and clear. Although NTCC will use it for propaganda, and Pastor Briggs is now a marked man (I believe he is sincere). Now NTCC can parade him out at conference as another "we are winning" victory. Expect him to be called upon to testify next conference; he may even get to preach.
In his article Pastor Briggs presents himself as a damaged and confused person longing for attention, and some semblance of Christian normalcy.
While I can appreciate most people’s fear of Pastor Davis (and understand Pastor Briggs' fear, as we have all seen Pastor Davis at his most vicious during class, conference, fellowship, etc), I can't relate personally. I never had a problem with NTCC 'policy', or Pastor Davis (other than his dirty jokes, racist jokes, and frequent use of the "N" word). I would possibly not feel this way if Pastor Davis had treated me as bad as he has treated others.
Of course we never did our own thing as Pastor Briggs shared he does. Deborah and I always toed the party line, and were company men. Isn’t Pastor Briggs the one who proudly brags about doing his own thing, and being his own man? So why the confusion about the whys and wherefores of organizational direction and leadership? He just ignores it (NTCC policy) anyway (so he’s said) in his striving (keep trying) for the mastery. Yet his striving has yielded a double mind; as Pastor Briggs account shows.
Pastor Briggs wrote, "...it was just that questions concerning the whys and wherefores of organizational direction and leadership were beginning to bring confusion within my mind"
Pastor Briggs also wrote Pastor Davis as saying, “But before you do brother I need you to talk to me from your heart. Don’t hold back, and don’t tell me what you think I want to hear just talk to me so I can help you”.
We have all also seen this before…NTCC will neglect, neglect, neglect…push, push, push…blast, blast, blast…flip-flop, flip-flop, flip-flop (this one is recent)—then the 11th hour, and they come forth manifesting their version of the Spirit of Christ (angelic choir soundtrack); assuaging any trepidations, and the cycle starts over again.
This works (for a time) hand-in-hand with Pastor Davis recurring generic public Conference apology. You know the one, “If I have offended anyone, or done anyone wrong, forgive me.” But, even these vanilla amends don’t jibe with his frequent “All I do is by the Holy Ghost…I can’t remember the last time I sinned…I’ve never missed God” proclamations.
Again, one can definitely feel Pastor Briggs' pain and anguish, and can too easily pity him for the damage caused him, when reading this account.
In His Service,
Gregory
Bene, cum Latine nescias, nolo manus meas in te maculare
Abyssus abyssum invocat
Robert Briggs you are not the first person to have questions concerning the WHYS and WHEREFORES of organizational direction and leadership. And if you have questions about the WHYS and WHEREFORES of organizational leadership then don't you think the
people that you are supposed to be an example to have questions? Especially when you yell and scream at them?
Some organizations teach for doctrines the commandments of men Robert Briggs. If you decide to resign your pastorialship Robert it probably wouldn't take them about one week at the most and you would be replaced Robert Briggs.
Now go take the day off & go have dinner with your wife. We can ALL relate to what you are going through with your questions.
"Hey Moron, quin uti quaeritur aliquid pro Anglis silvarum? Item perficit tendo ut sententiis vestris populus intellectum tui."
Translates thusly,
"Hey Moron, why don't you try using English instead of some dead language? Also try finishing your sentences so people understand you."
This is so you don't have to scratch your head or other body parts too long to figure out what was said.
Deep calleth unto deep? Please. I guess it's got to be revealed through Google translator. "Line upon line, precept upon precept."
Anonymous
If you have never listend to me preach you have no idea if I "Yell and scream at them" but you can hear me on my blog why not check it out.
If I left I know I would be replaced that's life when Jeff left the Army did they errect a huge statue in his honor and refuse to fill his positon for their deep love for what he had done. I'm sure he did fine, but life goes on.
The people that I am an example too "KNOW" they can talk to me. And, I know I can talk to my leaders. I am "marked" remember. Thing's that I've said all easy for all to read. And I've had many discussions with people and my leaders about them. And look... I'm still here.
It is not Christian AT ALL to do what you do on these blogs. Why not direct your energies to getting someone saved. Do you even go to church anymore? I know Brian Pelfry doesn't... he doesn't even go home with his own wife anymore.... go figure.
Ask Greg who rose up when he was called to Korea and had to leave on a moments notice? Who came into the mess of his house and put things in order, helped sell what he wanted sold. Cleaned his house? And that after never haven been treated by him in a friendly manner.
Ask his wife who gave her a job when she was abandoned by her first husband.....
Ask her who gave her an airplane ticket to and from conference when she was not able to raise the funds herself....
In light of these events I asked Greg to please keep me out of his fight by removing the link he put on his blog to me... he refused and insulted instead.... Does that sound nice and christian?
If you stand against an organization you stand against IT you do NOT try to rake the mudd on anyone you find within your targets. But I do thank God for Jeff's blog now because it has helped more then one family in my cngregation understand that intense hatred that fuels the fires of the Ex'ers. You can't read long before you know that. In fact you cant read long before you realize Mr. Jeff no longer beleives in a God at all
Mr. Briggs if you do decide to leave ntcc. Yes,you will be replaced by another robot. BUT,you and your wife will be Free of ntcc. You can continue on into a ministry that God leads you. Or like some have realized there was no call at all. it was all pushed on them. I know some that have left ntcc are still working in a church,ministry.
April
Why not ask Amy herself.
I knew it wouldn't take briggs too long to blatently display his holier than thou attitude towards those that are no longer servants to the ntcc cult. His true colors are really starting to come out now. The next thing he is going to require is for us to bow down and worship his majesty. He sits on his throne and tells us that Jeff is not saved. He equates being a member of the ntcc cult with chistianity. I'm very thankful that God doesn't require us to work our way into heaven anymore. I will never be a slave to these money grubbers any more. Don't you have a flock to tend to, briggs?
No this is what Robert Briggs sometimes does during the day for the congregation that is at work and paying his salary.
"Do you even go to church anymore? I know Brian Pelfry doesn't... he doesn't even go home with his own wife anymore.... go figure."
And may I assume that this is "Gods Judgment" on him for standing against NTCC?
BTW, I haven't forgotten about my promise to talk about my visit with Mike Kekel and his wife who wanted to tag along with him like a puppy dog to try and defend the honor of her daddy, R'Dub. But right now this is getting pretty good so I'm going to sit back, relax, and perhaps even grab a pale ale and enjoy the action.
Robert Briggs wrote...
Jeff left the Army did they erect a huge statue in his honor and refuse to fill his position for their deep love for what he had done. I'm sure he did fine, but life goes on.
Jeff said...
Only a few know the rest of the story. The Army has a deeper love for their Retirees than you could know Pastor Briggs. I decided I'd try to follow Greg's example and show a little more respect for Mr. Briggs. I will attempt to use a respectful title prior to addressing someone's last name regardless of how I feel about them. My apologies Mr. Briggs for not affording you at least that common courtesy. Don't try to read into why I'm being nice because it's likely you'd be wrong. All I'll say is that I'm feeling a little patriotic right now and with patriotism comes a degree for respect that I decided to afford you for a change. I'm sure Greg understands. You touched on a soft spot with me Pastor Briggs. Good day.
Sincerely,
Jeff
Pastor Briggs wrote...
In fact you cant read long before you realize Mr. Jeff no longer believes in a God at all.
Jeff said...
I wouldn't be so certain of that Pastor Briggs. Of course I don't have to explain myself no more than you do, nor do I plan to. Whatever relationship I have with God is between only God and I. I don't pray to be heard of men anyway nor do I tell folks if I pray or if I don't. Be certain of this: I'm not a big fan of modern day Christianity Pastor Briggs and I make no apologies there. Modern day Christianity is exactly like the Laodicean Church, and that clearly includes the NTCC. The NTCC is more Laodicean than many churches by far.
Just because I've stated that I'm not a "holier than thou" Christian doesn't mean I don't believe in God. A hypocrite is something that I'm not.
Take care Pastor Briggs.
Sincerely,
Jeff
Oh and once again Pastor Briggs. I'm not a fan of the NTCC or it's ministers. That comes as no surprise to anyone. Any respect that I afford you or anyone else in the NTCC isn't because of a title they hold or because I believe they are one of Gods representatives because I don't. In this case I feel the need to afford you respect because you are a fellow human and I figure that I should probably give you more respect than I have. So once again I apologizes for being a jerk, and I plan to treat you with more respect because we both breath air on this earth. That doesn't change the way I feel about the NTCC or the way it's ministers have abused people. Please accept my apologies.
Sincerely,
Jeff
P.S. Don't think for one second that I've acted this way because you've threatened people with law suits. You just happened to touch on a soft spot with me and it's unlikely that you have a clue what I'm talking about. All that I can say is that I'm feeling abnormally happy for reasons unknown to most. I just figured that I'd try to spread my happiness toward you Pastor Briggs. Being happy is a good thing and I guess this blog could probably use a little more of it sometimes. To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven. The Bible and the Byrds.
A time to love, and a time to hate
a time to break down, and a time to build up
Do you think I believe in God Pastor Briggs? Just because I quote scripture doesn't mean anything or does it? Who knows?
Jeff
song: uprising
artist: muse
lyrics:
The paranoia is in bloom, the PR
The transmissions will resume
They'll try to push drugs
Keep us all dumbed down and hope that
We will never see the truth around
(So come on!)
Another promise, another scene, another
A package not to keep us trapped in greed
With all the green belts wrapped around our minds
And endless red tape to keep the truth confined
(So come on!)
They will not force us
They will stop degrading us
They will not control us
We will be victorious
Interchanging mind control
Come let the revolution take its toll if you could
Flick the switch and open your third eye, you'd see that
We should never be afraid to die
(So come on!)
Rise up and take the power back, it's time that
The fat cats had a heart attack, you know that
Their time is coming to an end
We have to unify and watch our flag ascend
They will not force us
They will stop degrading us
They will not control us
We will be victorious
Hey .. hey ... hey .. hey!
They will not force us
They will stop degrading us
They will not control us
We will be victorious
Hey .. hey ... hey .. hey
lyrics: JohnysMusicChannel
Briggs,
You are sadly mistaken if you think it is unchristian like to expose a cult! Your not a church,you an organization. That has alot of cult tendencies. As a Christian.And as a Marine. I can not sit by and let other innocent bystanders get caught up in this horrible cult. Where it is uses fear more then love to keep folks in ntcc.
You can try and be a goodie two shoes. And not shout or spit at your church folks. Who you think your there example. Your the shepherd to keep watch over them! Many of us did not spit and shout at folks. But we were not a sucess in rw opinion.
Mmm,why isn't ntcc holding conference in a huge arena? That was projected that ntcc was supposed to keep growing. They had nine hundred folks in a conference. Oh,six or seven years AGO!I do think there still at that same long building
Another hole in your theory that we are filled with hatred as so called Xers. For me that is so far from the tuth,it is hilarious. I do not hate anyone. I love God even more then I ever did while in ntcc. Let your church members go to the ntcc college and be under the RULES> I wonder if they would still believe that we are filled with hate and just blowing smoke!
Let your concious be your guide! God tries to get folks attention while stuck in ntcc. But they push it down. thinking this is a God filled organization. This is where God wants them to be,to do his will! All those little thoughts that pop up. Telling you,that this is not right. Listen to God!
April
appology accepted
I have a great deal of respect for those that are real. Not that it matters what I think but Jeff is light years ahead of the ntcc robots that roll off of the assembly lines. Personally, I have no respect for briggs, kekel, rwd or anyone else in the borg that knows what they are doing. Like Jeff and Gregory, I probably should have a little bit of respect but it's just not there for me right now. Jesus didn't even call them by their names; He called them serpents with a small s and generation of vipers with a small v and hypocrites with a small h.
I truly believe that the ntcc leadership are the scribes and pharisees of this day. briggs came off an assembly line and only follows the teachings of his masters, but I still think that even though it's learned behavior, he knows the bible well enough and there is no excuse for his lying, manipulative ways.
There are a lot of good people in the ntcc, misguided and misdirected as they may be, and a few good pastors that don't have a mission in life to tear down Christians or run them off. But if you look at the lot of them as a whole, they are accomplishing very little, and most of what they do accomplish is destructive.
briggs has followed in his master's footsteps and is full of greed and hatred to all those that are not drones like he is. He has enough time and money on his hands from the tithe payers and church offerings to make mazza davis and mazza olson happy in Washington and he also has enough money to build a fancy website, pay for the hosting, so he can entrap people with phony infringement rules and then has money to file lawsuits against a brother in Christ, (which he denounces as an infidel), writes vicious comments night and day towards all that are not part of his cult and has the audacity to point his finger at us?
Maybe someday I will lighten up and show a little respect toward these hypocrites, but I've seen too much carnage and too much destruction in my own life and in the lives of others. Am I bitter? I actually enjoy my life. I get very passionate about ntcc while blogging but I've learned to love my neighbor and show decency to people in a world where its not often reciprocated. I do not want to have to look at someone's feet to see which direction they are walking. I think the truth is bitter sometimes. When you find out that you spent 25% of your life in a cult and have nothing to show for it, it hurts. When you see other people doing the same, you want to warn them.
Saying all this, I think Jeff and Gregory have qualities that I don't have in that they have been through just as much or more than I have and they still show respect toward those that despitefully use them.
Pastor Briggs said...
apology accepted.
Jeff said...
Cool.
Jeff
I can say one postive thing that came from my escape from the cult.I get involved with as many community service projects as I can. Involving my family.
Being in ntcc where they are taught to ignore any needy. If folks come in needing help. Show them the door. The Poor are beneath the high and mighty people in ntcc. And if you even think to give a hand up to folks. Will get yourself in trouble with the "leaders" of ntcc. I know,it happened to me.
It was raining in WA. I was out running errands. A lady needed a ride home. I could not just leave her there outside of a grocery store. I gave her ride home. Invited her to church. She was had already invited out by some single men. She never came out. She did call and ask for help. then I get a call from Mike K. He would only talk to my husband. Not to me directly. Had to talk to my taker(hubby). Told me to cut off any contact with this lady.
Another incident,invited a old lady out. She was looking for friendship,someone to talk to. She did come out to church. We had to cut off contact with Pearl. Imagine if we had continue to stop in for a visit with that old lady.
So now I Free to work in the community and VOLUNTEER and help the NEEDY!
April
Mmmm,I got to wondering today. Since Halloween is coming up this weekend. I wonder if ntcc in WA is having service. They did cancel service for the Fourth of July.
Rw davis did allow his daughter to trick a treat. Since Mike and Tanya have done alot under the radar. I wonder if they took there son trick a treating all these years. Drove out of the area. Wouldn't want there precious son to miss out on anything during HIS childhood.
While many of us never took our kids trick a treating while in ntcc. Turned off our lights and HIDE so those sinners and there kids did not come to our door for a piece of candy. Such devil worshippers they are!LOL
Guess what we are doing this weekend. Taking our kids to a cub scouts halloween fun night. And GASP,trick a treating around the neighborhood.
April
Yes, I've heard that Tanya was allowed to do many things that the common person at NTCC was not allowed to do. I remember that Tanya and her dad had a really good relationship and that he truly did love her. Nothing fake or phony about that. But, considering the fact that vasectomies were being pushed and that everyone else was urged to get them EXCEPT Mike then to me it follows logically that she was allowed to do things that the average person was not allowed to do.
I remember reading something on Deborah's blog site about the fact that Rick Blumenthal questioned Tanya about when Mike was going to the Doctor's office and Tanya pulled some kind of answer out of her Butt and Rick was never the same after that.
For fear of not looking like gossip, there is an NTCC (place and ministers name withheld) who will be holding their 1st ever fall festival on 10/31. (No costumes).
When asked by the minister 'why'? He simply stated to give the children an alternative to trick or treating.
Costumes or not, a pagan holiday is a pagan holiday and should not be embraced by Believers.
I know many churches do this, but NTCC isn't supposed to be your typical church or so I thought. But then again, NTCC isn't as old fashioned at it used to be so I shouldn't really be surprised.
A little worldliness leavens the whole lump...
Dawn wrote....
But then again, NTCC isn't as old fashioned at it used to be
Jeff wrote...
I've come to learn that the NTCC was never very old fashioned for a select group namely the Kekels, (and a few others). There have been certain people who have been getting breaks all along. I didn't get any breaks while I was with four different pastors. Taylor, Madrano, Ramirez and Mayers. Hunt and Oberhauser weren't actually that hard but Oberhauser started acting like he was turning hard right at the time that we left the NTCC for good. Basically Oberhauser was the last straw for my family where the NTCC was concerned.
Hunt could be hard occasionally but for the most part he didn't act that way with me. Now I've listen to Hunt use the pulpit to attack and abuse one perticular church member one Sunday evening as bad or worse than I've ever seen it done in the NTCC. Hunt can be viscous when he wants to. He is a pretty good guy but he can't stand being questioned. Once again good guy but a typical NTCC control monger.
Dawn there are certain people who haven't followed all the NTCC rules for a long time and we all know who they are. Because of them now a lot of people are starting to lighten up the standards. I've been saying it all along. Denis was a crook but he saw it coming also. Crook or not Denis was right about that.
Jeff
Six years ago. There was a church in ntcc that was growing by leaps and bounds. That church was holding family events,Easter fun(with a egg hunt).
They got flagged for holding such FUN events in a ntcc church. So they left ntcc. They are still in the ministry till this day. Outside of ntcc and going strong.
Six years ago. Fall festivals were BANNED. But know God has spoken to this minister. And God has told him that is a good alternative to trick a treating. Guess what neither of them are sinister or sinful!! Kids going door to door with there families. Is no different then a child going to a church fall festival and play games and get CANDY!
It is all a bunch of LIES,coverup. Just ADMIT that the ntcc LIED to us. There so called policies are not sins. Ministers that don't watch TV because rw davis says not to. WHY? You can watch DVD's but not TV. You choose what movies to watch. Just as you choose what TV shows to watch. Do women in ntcc not wear make-up and jewlery? Why,that is not even biblical not to. I am sure the church members are allowed to,as well as watch TV. IF it is right for church members then it is right for a minister and his wife. THERE NOT ABOVE ANYONE ELSE!!!! You can not make your savor smell any sweeter then anyone else's! By how you look,what you listen to,watch!!!
Stop pretending that we are making this all up. There are WAY TO MANY OF US out and in ntcc. That know we are not making up stories! We are not sharing our true stories because we are angry and bitter. We share because people have to know the TRUTH!
Happy Halloween!
Oh and if Mike tries to say. Look how far they have fallen away from God. I read up on Halloween while in ntcc. And knew it was nothing to be afraid of. Just more MIND CONTROL!!
April
Hey Dawn,
Are those kids out trick a treating holding a pagan ceremony? Celebrating the Fall harvest!
Do you have a Christmas tree up at Christmas time. That is Pagan!
Things that are of times past. Are not used in the same as they were during the past.
Oh and look up wordliness. I have since learned it is not what ntcc taught what worldliness is!!!!!!!!!!
April
I've seen pictures on the Internet of current NTCC children dressing up in costumes at current NTCC churches. If RWD and Kekel can't clean up their own back yard I'm not interested in hearing what they have to say about someone else.
I know what April is saying and I understand but it doesn't matter to me if a church considers Halloween, fall festival or any other holiday good, bad or sin. The fact is the NTCC used to teach that all that stuff was bad and sin but now dressing up in costumes is allowed. Easter egg hunts are allowed and the list goes on and on. Like I always say, it has been no more than a double standard and compromise. Being that the NTCC has in fact taught that participation in the events mentioned is categorical sin, and then they change and allow it, that is compromise. Either that or it was a false teaching / doctrine from the get go and that is all there is too it.
Then it just becomes a bunch of rules that man came up with just so they could have control over your lives. There is enough in the Bible without adding to it. Amen
Jeff
No offense Dawn, but the problem with your thinking is that you have never left the cult, you just transfered from one to the other.
T
The day a man realizes his many years of toil, money, time, blood, sweat, tears were all for not... or to be more exact.... all for a cult...
is not a pretty day.
Johnson... did that answers your question?
Well, Mr. Briggs I commend you for standing up for what you feel is right on your lentel beanpatch.
Although I do not attend NTCC, I have a great degree or respect for anyone who stakes a claim for Christ.
But if NTCC is the last great hope for Mankind, them why are Koreans sending their missionairies over here in America to spread the Good News to us in the US??
Your going to do what you are going to do, but realize I am fighting to allow you to do what you do, Freedom is not Free. Whom the Son has set free is free indeed, I was glad when I left NTCC and experienced TRUE freedom.
Bro Johnson
Anonymous said...
(Yes it's becoming painfully obvious that your numbers have dwindled you even stoop low enough to create artificial subscribers so you don't look like you have no following don't you there Larch?)
Jeff said...
You are really reaching pretty far on that one and more accurately you are dead wrong. I've never posted as Larch or any of those other Lizard characters. I have no problem with whoever is posting under those names but I will guarantee that it's not me doing it. You decided to speculate a little bit (like I do sometimes) but your speculation is dead wrong in this case. There, hopefully I cleared the record for all the readers here. I absolutely DO NOT post as Larch or any of the other Lizard Characters.
Oh and the only filth that is being dished out comes directly from your NTCC pastors during church service.
Public embarrassment, abuse, and humiliation are practices taught by the NTCC leadership and incorporated by your fellow NTCC pastors. That Sir, is the real filth. Speaking out against such unnecessary and indecent acts is not filth. It is displaying moral fortitude to speak out against so called "pastors" who conduct themselves in such a horrible fashion. There is a difference between filth and moral fortitude. One day you will probably figure that one out and hopefully you won't have wasted too much time trying.
Jeff
Johnson,are really being serious. Going to hell if you observe Halloween. I am not sure if you are still stuck in ntcc false teachings. Or have not taken a look around. Been in four states since leaving ntcc. No devil worshipping going on. Friends are going to eighties parties or sixties parties. No spells,no reading Tara cards,ect.
All you got is FEAR of what you think Halloween is,the devil,GASP!
It really is about kids dressing up. And most are not even doing Ghost and Goblins anymore. It is firefighters,soliders,a pumpkin,movie characters,ect. I do not see a church having a fall festival as compromise. I for one am glad I am not excluding my children from this event. As we are making the memories. What are folks that stay scared in there homes with the lights shut off doing?
remember rw davis allowed Tanya to trick a treat when she was little!
April
It is really interesting that when a Christian wants to attack someone else, they say, you don't even believe in God at all anymore.
But yet if that Christian were to sit down and think, this thought would come across their mind - I get up in a pulpit and preach Christ and the Bible and that all need to ask forgiveness and salvation. No matter what they have done.... no matter what atrocious act they have committed, Christ will forgive you and you will go to heaven. God is bigger than any sin and Jesus died for ALL.
Capital A, capital L, capital L. (child molesters, murders, rapists, serial killers, etc)
Consider the person who does not believe in a Christian God. However they choose to live their life... it is without a God to forgive them.
Think about that for a minute.
People get so hung up on Halloween, which is mostly children playing dress up and running about the neighborhoods.
It was God who entered a bet with Satan. Read the book of Job. The whole bible is loaded with references to the devil. Should current day Christians be afraid of any reference to the devil?
And finally I have a question for everyone:
In the Bible... Old and New Testament... how many people did God kill?
How many people in the Old and New Testament did Satan kill?
So if you want to attack someone's morality, is it logical to use the Christian God who will forgive the most offensive sins to humanity, who allowed Satan a space of time, and who killed massive numbers of people in the Bible?
If people really sat and thought for a minute, it might cut down on the hate.
Another question -
How many Ntcc preachers do not go home to their own wife because they are on their 2nd, 3rd, or 4th marriage personally performed by Davis himself?
When I lived in Puyallup, the changing of spouses was so frequent, I accidentally called one "sister" by her former husband's last name, not her current husband's. She gave me a dirty look and I apologized.
That is precisely why I asked Robert Briggs, (which I never received a answer), where is Robert's gentleness and meekness that he is supposed to have as a minister of Christ, when he breathes out a threat that "...he will be on you like white on rice!!!" if someone were to publish his article where he has questions about his organization???
Care to answer this "I'll be on you like white on rice" threat Robert Briggs??? And please answer this Robert Briggs, "Why do you want to hide your article?" Why hide it under a bushel or under a bed?
remember rw davis allowed Tanya to trick a treat when she was little!
April
Then Davis is on his way to hell and is going to split hell wide open, for that is not what was taught to me during my tenure at NTCC by numerous NTCC pastors.
Allow me to regress if I may, I was overboard on my previous comments. I'm not saying observing Halloween will send you to hell, but I remember going to Church on Halloween in NTCC.
As Halloween is pagan in nature, as a Christian, observe it how you want to observe it. The Pagans have their day, we have our day (Christmas), it is a free country.
But, I do not observe it, just a non-tradition that I observed which started back with my days with NTCC.
I find something wrong with little kids dressing up like demons, ghosts and witches. Why glorify something that is definitely not Christianity? What would Jesus Do? Would Jesus dress up as a Demon? For the love of Christ, no! Mr. Briggs can identify me with this one, I think.
So now we have "Fall Festival" call it whatever you want. Halloween is the Pagans and Atheists so call High Holy (or Unholy Day) and I will not participate in it.
Easter is Pagan, Christmas is Pagan to an extent. My kids will have no memories of Halloween. It is a non element in my household.
Davis is a crook, a farce, and a pretender. To preach against Halloween but to turn around and allow his so called daughter to dress up that way counters every Christian virtue he ever taught. He is a two faced lier.
NTCC preachers teach, avoid the VERY appearance of evil.
Corruption breads Corruption.
Bro Johnson
© 2010 New Testament Christian Church, Pasadena, TX. All rights reserved. Unauthorized use prohibited. NTCC, Pasadena copyright materials may not be reproduced in whole or in part by persons, organizations or corporations other than the NTCC, its affiliates, divisions and units without the prior written permission of the NTCC, Pasadena
Well, legally, since NTCC is UNACCREDITED, there is no legality to Rev Brigg's so called claim, which makes the above disclaimer henceforth NULL AND VOID.
"Unauthorized use prohibited". There is nothing unauthorized about it. Who gave you, Mr. Briggs, the authority to authorize anything relevent to an irrelevant organization?
As Jesus stated "Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above" John 19:11
Bro Johnson
Why celebrate Christmas as a Christian holiday. Your right it does have alot of pagan practice's in the holiday. AND it is not Christ's birthday!
If you carry over that your children don't observe Halloween because of your time in ntcc. Why? I have prayed for God to wipe my head clear of anything those false teachers taught. It is is ALL Junk!
Would Jesus be sitting around a Tree opening presents? Would Jesus be having a wreath,holly,lights on his house. Seems a bit odd if you think your living your life like Christ would. Seems like ntcc is still in you! You may not be in ntcc phycially,but ntcc is still in you mentally!
Do you kids dress up for a Christmas play. They get goodie bags at there Christmas parties? So what is the difference? If kids weat a costume,get candy in October. Or get dressed up in the month of December. It is how you mind concieves it. And where your mind is stuck in there false teachings!
I will hope your kids grow up and take there own kids trick a treating. Making the memories!
April Michalik,
This is what I got from Mike K. when we first left Minnesota. I felt alot of courage that I never had before. I knew were done with the ministry. So I started asking alot of questions. When Mike thought we still might stay in ntcc as church members. He tried to answer me. WHICH I did print all of those double talking response's he gave me. GOLDEN material to save!
Once he realized we were drifting further and further from ntcc. he tried to throw out jabs at me. Ex. Like it had to be something deeper then Finances to cause Kevin to step down. Or look,why are you asking questions. Why should you care. You left ntcc and not in the ministy. I went 13 years wanting real answers and had so much FEAR. I never asked them,or there was the door for me. And leave ntcc,I thought would mean leave my husband. Ntcc loves to split couples up!!!
I finially have the courage to ask him. And I got Nothing from him.
You would think he would have nothing to hide. ntcc has everything to hide!
April
Robert Briggs I encourage you to lift your copyright on your article, "FEAR, FRUSTRATION, AND FACING PASTOR."
It could help other ministers, who think they must appear without faults, to "own up" to their faults. It could help other pastors to throw away their pride and apologize to the ones that they have wronged & hurt. Why are pastors today seemingly "afraid" to go up to a person that they have wronged, and apologize?
No, it seems like the way some pastors like to address their wrong that they have done to someone is by getting
behind the pulpit and trying to apologize "in code." I encourage you Robert Briggs to release your copyright on, "FEAR, FRUSTRATION, AND FACING PASTOR."
MR JOHNONSON SAID
Well, legally, since NTCC is UNACCREDITED, there is no legality to Rev Brigg's so called claim, which makes the above disclaimer henceforth NULL AND VOID.
"Unauthorized use prohibited". There is nothing unauthorized about it. Who gave you, Mr. Briggs, the authority to authorize anything relevent to an irrelevant organization?
As Jesus stated "Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above" John 19:11
Bro Johnson
I appreciate your position but you are wrong. I am the Torch, it is my website 100%. All the graphics, logo's, articles, sermons, and MP3's are mine, or I was given permission from their owners to use. For someone to use the stuff they have to ask, as I did.
Here is what the US Copyright office says on their web sites FAQ (http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html#mywork)
When is my work protected?
Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.
I think you understand though that permission will not be given to someone that wants to take it and use it for nefarious purposes. Comment away on it if you like, but don't copy it.
And, if I am a non entity as you all keep saying there is no need to use my writing anyway. Just because your computer comes equipped with a copy and paste function doesn't mean you should use it all the time. Should I go back and get all of Greg's Apologetics from his Factnet days as a means of discrediting him? I mean, you guys used to call him Dr. Greg among other things. And I’ve got to say his were some of the wackiest of all of the statements on either side of the isle... remember his expose on the vulva?
Anon if you would like persmission to use the article please write me at pastor@ntccpasadenatx.org and let me know where, when and why you want to use it and we will see.
Thanks
Briggs,
I really wish I could have read what you wrote. The expectations that Davis and ntcc place on a person are not normal or healthy.
Because of the pressure they put on you, I heard you had a massive mental breakdown in Graham Wa when you worked for Knights Insulation. You threw your briefcase and screamed,
"I'm going f*#$ing nuts!!"
It doesn't have to be that way. I hope you eventually choose to leave ntcc and find a better life for your family. It's no way for children to grow up.
Nicole B. said...
I hope you eventually choose to leave ntcc and find a better life for your family. It's no way for children to grow up.
Jeff said...
It's not "too" bad for your children to grow up in the NTCC as long as you don't follow all the strict NTCC man made rules. I don't think Grant had it too bad and looking at the pictures of the events that he puts on I don't think Pastor Briggs kids have it too bad either. Guys like Pastors Kekel and Briggs have followed the main stream. They've let their kids do a lot that RWD and the vast majority of NTCC pastors have taught against.
As long as one doesn't follow the same standard that's been taught by the NTCC for years their kids won't be "too" bad off. Having said that, there are a whole lot better ways for a child to spend his or her childhood rather than being in church 5 days a week. That Ain't going to get you to heaven. If that is what it takes to get to heaven then Christ died in vain. NTCCers think that ones salvation is measured by the number of services attended and that is bologna. Not only that but I listened to RWD teach in conference that if you are a pastor, and you don't have enough money, and if you are not holding a full schedule of services i.e. five a week, don't call Graham crying about being broke. (This obviously includes a Bible study where they generally don't take up an offering)
For those who don't clearly understand, what RWD was saying is that if you need more money hold more services if you are not holding the generally understood max already. Now some of these money hungry NTCC pastors want to throw an extra service in Sunday morning making it "3" services on Sunday. That is 6 services a week if you factor in the Bible study. That my friends is RWDs money making business and that is what RWD taught and I heard it with my own two ears. "If you need more money, hold more services". Five services a week might get the NTCC more money but it is NOT the formula needed to get you to heaven. That is pure garbage, and that is the NTCCs money making business, and that is more opportunity for them to brainwash you and control your entire life. There is a reason for everything RWD does and if you listen close enough RWD tells most of his reasons and more than not they have nothing to do with salvation but they almost always have something to do with his "CORPORATION" making more money.
Everybody is advising Pastor Briggs to leave the NTCC, but one reason hasn't been mentioned too much or at all. I'm not putting in all my hard work just for 40% to 60% of it to get funneled up to Graham and an escrow account to be created that I have no control of. RWD was smarter then that and that is why he left the church he was part of in the first place and started his own. Don't believe the holiness excuse because that obviously doesn't exist any longer and it hasn't as long as his grandson's been alive. RWD wanted to be in control of his own church and money because RWD is his own man and I don't blame him one bit. I'm not busting my butt to get a little building that I'm never going to have control over; are you kidding me? RWD wouldn't do it so why should you? Because your brainwashed and you walk to the step of the NTCC beat. It's alright for RWD to be rich but it's only ok for you just to get a relative small piece of the pie. Your an idiot if you buy off on that garbage. Well my family is getting a huge piece of the pie and not one more penny is going toward Grant Kekel's tuition and toys. Not a red cent. I've funded the Kekels endevours too long and those days are over. Now I'm taking care of my family all the way.
Jeff
Nicole,
Sorry your story was GREATLY ebmelished if that's what you heard. Isn't it funny how the "retelling of tales" expands and increases with each subsequent telling.
As for Jeff's statement about the "compromise". I have news for you Jeff, I have not compromised. For a kid to dress up for a Christmas play, is no different then a kid dressing up for a Easter play, to a kid dressing up for a Harvest festival. Look close at the pictures: No gouls, goblins, devils, demons, vampires, monsters, evil things of any kind. If you had a pastor tell you that it was a "sin" you had a STUPID pastor. Pastor Davis never did that though I wouldn't expect you to know that because your experience has been with other people.
I am living proof that no one has ever been expected to be a "robot" or a cookie cutter christian. Have some done that? Sure... but that is their own moral weakness and not mine. Do I follow the rules? Yes, but you guys love to jump on a statement that I made (that no one tells me what to do) and make that sound as if I am pumping my fist in the face of Pastor Davis. What I am saying is easy, but I'm sure once again it will be distorted but let me try one more time, no one calls me every day to give me "instructions" on what to do or how to do it. And I do not call every decission in to Graham. I only call for guidance when I am not sure what to do. The pastor is given way more ability to "lead" his congregation than most people here state. Probably because most people here have not been pastors and therefor have a limited understanding of how that position operates and what guidlines they are to follow.
Where I differ from some of my contemporaries (most of which are now confederates) is that I do not force people into anything. I preach it, teach it, and leave it to them to grow.
Now, for being such a liberal guy as you all proclaim, I wonder Jeff why you called me so "harsh" and "mean" back during our phone conversation saying I was controlling etc etc. Which one am I Liberal and allowing... or condmening and cruel? But I can't be both. Or maybe just maybe you are polarizing in your statmeents Making someone seem harsh when that fits and soft when that is more beneficial.
In any event my preaching is now available for all to hear and judge for themselves. Nicole if you want to read the article read it on my site. And please, in the future consider the source you recieve your information from I would hate for you to compound a good gossip session with a lie and come out looking double wrong.
Thx
RB
Cheyenne,WY was having Easter activities that ntcc DID NOT approve of. The Overseerer came. AS DIRECTED by rw davis. And was correcting them. They were also having Family events on the schedule. All of that was not supposed to happen.
You can say all you want briggs. BUT NTCC HAS CHANGED. AND will not acknowledge it.Try to blame a few preachers that are being labeled as ninnies. Going on there own program! AS IF!!!!! No one in ntcc was going on there own program. You say,you call and ask for guidance. We also called in for guidance. What did we get. NOTHING,ZIP! Was told to go and pray about it. SOOOO,ntcc did not have to take any of the responsiblity if something did not go right. Which is what your doing briggs for them. COVER UP!!
And you wonder why we are angry. We are very upset! That we got SOOO MUCH PROOF right in our notes. The double talking,twisting of the scriptire,suggesting things. That EVERYONE but a few took as the gospel truth.
Your a hypocrite as is rw davis,mike K. and everyone in ntcc!
You do not live the life that ntcc portrays. As holy,SET APART! Full of compromise. Has God told RW Davis to make these changes. IF NOT,NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO DO ANYTHING AGAINST HIS RULES> He was there first and what he says goes.
April
Pastor Briggs wrote...
As for Jeff's statement about the "compromise". I have news for you Jeff, I have not compromised. For a kid to dress up for a Christmas play, is no different then a kid dressing up for a Easter play, to a kid dressing up for a Harvest festival. Look close at the pictures: No gouls, goblins, devils, demons, vampires, monsters, evil things of any kind. If you had a pastor tell you that it was a "sin" you had a STUPID pastor. Pastor Davis never did that though I wouldn't expect you to know that because your experience has been with other people.
Jeff wrote...
Come on Pastor Briggs. What about all the make-up? You can't selectively choose when it's a sin to wear make-up and when it's not. It's either sin or it isn't. You can't have it both ways. What are you saying. Are all NTCC pastors are stupid because everyone taught it was a sin to wear make-up to include Pastor Davis. I had much experience with Pastor Davis contrary to your assumption. I couldn't even begin to tell you the number of times I heard him preach between all the visits to the serviceman's homes that I lived in, fellowship meeting that he showed up at, special fellowship meetings that he was a part of, and conferences that he preached at and I attended. Wearing make-up was considered a sin PERIOD by all the NTCC pastors to include Pastor Davis and you can't make exceptions just because you put it on kids. If it's alright for kids to wear it then it's alright for women to wear it. Or men for that matter. Hmmmmmmm.
That is the problem with many NTCC pastors. You'll make up your own rules with little or nothing to support the rule out of the Bible. The Bible doesn't even imply that it is a sin for a women to wear make-up but it is ok for kids to wear it as long as they are a part of a costume party. What? Is that found in 1st NTCC chapter 3 verse 5? Come on Pastor Briggs, are we expected to be all brainwashed and stupid? Once again you and your fellow ministers have insulted our intelligence. You see, that is just another one of your NTCC man made rules. You guys make exceptions where it suits you and then turn right around and blast people for infractions against your same man made rules.
You can't pick and choose. It's either a sin to wear make-up or it's not. It's either a sin for a woman to wear pants or it's not. You can't make exceptions just because she wants to exercise at the local gym like these NTCC pastors wives have been doing all along in pants.
You guys are hypocrites and Pastor Briggs you are smarter then that at least I thought so briefly.
Jeff
You are liberal Pastor Briggs, where the rules are concerned. But you are mean spirited when it comes to blasted folks who don't agree with you.
Pastor Briggs also wrote...
Where I differ from some of my contemporaries (most of which are now confederates) is that I do not force people into anything. I preach it, teach it, and leave it to them to grow.
Jeff said...
See there you go again Pastor Briggs. You don't make anybody do anything. You just preach it down their throats until they conform or you no doubt keep preaching it until they leave. Get in or get out, ain't that right Pastor Briggs? So your saying that if they don't listen to you then they are not growing? That is what you implied. I know the way you guys operate because I was part of your organization for years dating way back. Plus as you rightly stated, I talked to you on the phone and on the phone you acted just like all the other NTCC pastors whom you just called and I quote, "STUPID". You acted just like them. Mayers, Ramirez, Madrano, Hunt, Oberhauser. You guys act all the same. All I had to do is talk to you five minutes to figure that out.
Everything that I just wrote was logical and made sense but you guys just don't seem to get it. The problem that we have is that our brains work and so does our memory. We are not brainwashed any longer so you can't convince us that we didn't hear you guys preach what we know we did. All NTCC pastors preached against wearing make-up. It doesn't matter if it's for a harvest festival, Christmas party of for a women just to try and look prettier. It's either a sin Pastor Briggs or it isn't. You can't teach double standards and have it both ways.
Jeff
April, you have now verified for me what I was beginning to suspect... you have a reading disorder. You need to go back and re-read what I said CAREFULLY because you definitely missed a bunch.
Jeff, you are a very polarized, and that is not a slight it's an observation. Make-up is not the sin it is the motivation behind that makeup that is the sin.
A woman putting on her "face" is 1) implying that God made a mistake and needs help correcting his flaws 2) That people are so shallow as to not see her beauty without her artistry 3) Vain at the least 4) Insecure at the best and the list could go on.
Kids putting on wash off hair color, is not in the least the same thing. Look at the pictures again there is no "makeup". But even if a kid put on a "clown Face" the motivation behind why a clown wears make up and why a woman wears make up to the club are totally different and you know that. MOTIVATION/Reasons/Intent mean everything. The Pharasiee's were blasted for their "purposes" not their actions. Jesus said "Unless your righteousness EXCEEDS the righteousness of the Pharasiees..." meaning what? We are to find even stricter codes of dress, and deportment? I think not! No, he was meaning going beyond just surface things and improving the condition of the heart which inturn changes our motivations.
You know that, but it makes it simpler to keep it to one extreme or the other. Your just like the very preachers you condemn. Come on, raise your own standard, show us the more excellent way!
Jeff Said
See there you go again Pastor Briggs. You don't make anybody do anything. You just preach it down their throats until they conform or you no doubt keep preaching it until they leave.
Robert said
Jeff, admit it, with a statement like the one above the only way to make you happy is to "Stop preaching" all together. But that would include all preachers that preach at all because they all have to say what they "believe". That's the only way a person can keep from telling others what they believe.
When people leave they exercise their right. I can believe them wrong, they can believe their right... Time and God will tell. But I have someone in my church right now that has been here for almost 6 years that does not conform to everything. She knows what we teach and preach. She comes to service all the time and she is not "run off".
There are people I have asked to leave sure. Those are the ones that go beyond making their "own" decission and try to affect other people's decission (they are the ones that say 'you don't have to do that') These people have a right but they need to get out and do their own leg work instead of feeding off of someone elses labors.
Do I get agressive when my church is attacked sure that's part of a shepheards job ie. protect his flock. I make no appology for that.
JEFF SAID
You are liberal Pastor Briggs, where the rules are concerned. But you are mean spirited when it comes to blasted folks who don't agree with you.
Robert Said
Who have I been mean to? If you imply that individual you called me about that was a 4 year process.
The man's son, wife, and sister in law brought a cell phone video to me of him Masterating while talking about his hatred for blacks and hispanics and his desire that they should all die. Now that was just one of many, many, many istances of his persoanl inbalance which led to his expulsion and that came after years of his antics.
Did you ever have to give a soldier an Article 15 after much conselling? Did that make you a crule NCO? Did you ever have to be a party to kicking someone out? Did that mean you were uncaring about that persons situtation?
If so then why is it possible for you to do what you have to do while maintaining a caring attitude. And not me? Ever have to assert your authority as a plattoon seargant? And then ever found out later you were wrong? Did that make you a bad NCO or unworthy of your position? No one is perfect though we have to strive for the mastery.
The person I am referring to is in contact with me now and even a registered user on my site. I wish them the best and pray they have learned. I am not however overly optimistic when their pattern of behaviour spanned a total of more then 20 years and was exhibited under a miriade of different leaders. I was just the last one.
Oops in the above post it should read masturbating not masterating
Briggs,
I wrote to you to make another point, that if you come on a blog and say that a former member and ntcc preacher no longer comes home to his own wife, are you not gossiping and double-lying yourself? Have you considered your source as you admonished me? Remember... you are the Christian Preacher - not me.
I know I hit close to home and it probably makes you uncomfortable seeing yourself for how things really are. And I also realize you wouldn't be on this blog if you weren't thinking about leaving ntcc. (Davis isn't the only expert in psychology :)
Using your same reasoning as to why it is wrong for a woman to wear make-up, then for ntcc and Davis to push vasectomies as they did was to say God was wrong when he gave man a penis, testicles, and sperm. Let's get those snipped. Right?
Why mess with what God gave you?
Well at least you have children Briggs, and I've been asked how are they doing?
I work with a lady from Mexico and she asked me the other day why the girls here choose to dress up as tinkerbells and princesses on halloween.
Last night I was at the mall and I saw no less than a hundred children trick or treating there dressed up as animals, dinosaurs, cartoon characters, superheroes, etc. I did not see one child dressed up in an evil manner that depicted worshipping of satan.
Does evil lie in the hearts of the children having fun on a holiday? Or is it in the heart of the "religious" person. This reminds me of the ntcc preacher who said I was a whore and a slut if I continued to choose to wear jeans. Why? Because he claimed my wearing jeans was an open enticement for men to have sex with me. In my mind did I want to have sex with every man who walked by? Absolutely not. But because this preacher in his mind only saw me as a sex object, he projected the evilness in his heart on to me and blamed me for being the problem.
Heal thyself Preacher.
Just so everyone knows & for the record ROBERT BRIGGS IS LYING AND ALSO BEARING A WHOLE LOT OF FALSE WITNESS. I don't want to get into it right now because I've got better things to do but will try to share more in the days to come the Lord willing.
Robert, does the woman that has been coming to "your" church for 6 years know that you are talking about her on Jeff Collin's blog? Why don't you be man enough to go tell her because she is probably deceived into thinking you would never be talking about her the way you are. More trust betrayed.
Did Brain Pelfry run off with Mic Lloyd Owens wife or not?
Pastor Briggs said...
Jeff, you are a very polarized, and that is not a slight it's an observation. Make-up is not the sin it is the motivation behind that makeup that is the sin.
Jeff said...
A couple hours ago, right before my wife and I left to go shopping, I told her you would say this. Sir your response is so NTCCish. Trying to look prettier is a sin? Trying to look sharp or handsome is a sin? If you look at it like that then fixing your hair is a sin. Wearing nice shoes is a sin. Wearing nice clothing is a sin. What is a womans motivation for wearing make-up. It's plain and it's simple. She is trying to look prettier. PERIOD, BOTTOM LINE, GAME IS OVER because I have the right and accurate answer.
There you go again Pastor Briggs with the old NTCC make your own rules stuff. Either wearing make-up is a sin or it's not. You can't say, "oh you can wear make-up sister but sister you can't because your motivation isn't right. Come on Sir. Let's be real.
Jeff
Verna Davis and Sis Johnson also has worn make-up for years.
So if it is a sin. These ladies have been big time sinners for a long time.
There are already hypocrites. For hiding it from the ntcc public that they wear make-up. Me personally,I know it is not a sin to wear make-up. It was worn in the Bible as well as jewlery!
April
Pastor Briggs said...
the motivation behind why a clown wears make up and why a woman wears make up to the club are totally different and you know that.
Jeff said...
There are literately millions of women who wear make-up who aren't even thinking about going to a club and they never go to clubs. Some women just want to try and look prettier for their husband. Is that a sin? What has RWD taught for years? That people should look sharp and wear decent clothing and fix their hair. If it shouldn't matter how you look why does he teach that? Because it does matter and it matters to many woman how their face looks.
Oh but it's ok to run around looking like a clown but if a woman wants to try and look prettier for her husband it's a sin? If a single man fixes his hair real good with a fresh hair cut because he is courting a woman that he wants to look good for, is that a sin? If a woman fixes her hair real nice for the man she is dating or she just wants to look good for church is that a sin? Oh but it's a sin for a woman to put make-up on her face but anybody else can wear make-up as long as it's not to look pretty? I understand now. NOT. There is a NTCC sister who wears make-up because she is ashamed of her rosy cheek condition which means that she is trying to look prettier. That would be a sin according to your logic. Pastor Briggs, this is just another example of the NTCCs man made rules that people like yourself bend to suit the occasions that you decide not to ban.
Jeff
Bro Johnson
I appreciate your position but you are wrong. I am the Torch, it is my website 100%. All the graphics, logo's, articles, sermons, and MP3's are mine, or I was given permission from their owners to use. For someone to use the stuff they have to ask, as I did.
Mr. Briggs, thank you for breaking it down for me. I hope you forgive me for my zeal for the Lord, but zeal without certain knowlege nevertheless!!
Just so everyone knows, I don't have a problem with the NTCCs rule concerning woman not wearing make-up. I'm not saying I agree with that rule but that is another topic altogether. The NTCC leadership can concoct whatever rule they want. Now having said that many of the NTCCs rules are stupid, however If I don't like the rules, I don't have to go to their church. Whether or not I agree with the rules is not the issue here where "this" discussion is concerned. The double standard is the problem I have as I've indicated.
The problem I have is when they teach that wearing make-up is a sin, (which they have) and they teach that for a woman to wear pants is a sin, (which they have) then suddenly they change their rules specifically to suit their own agenda.
Then what they are doing is running around playing God by assuming that they know exactly what motivates everyone. They think they can read peoples minds and determine when it's ok for a woman to wear make-up or pants because they claim they know what motivates each and every woman. Well people, that is a bunch of garbage. You can't make exceptions to the rules just because it suits you.
So now NTCC pastors know what everyone is thinking right? They can read minds? Well that is basically what pastor Briggs is claiming when he talks about what motivates some women to wear make-up vs others. So if a woman with the wrong motivation puts on make-up she is going to hell but if a woman or girl or child or man puts on make-up with the right motivation they are going to heaven? So if wearing make-up determines whether or not you go to hell, what in the world did Christ die for? Come on guys. These NTCC pastors are straining at a gnat with that one just like Jesus spoke of by placing heavy burdens on their people. And then they change the rules to suit them for a Christmas or Fall event.
Jeff
What are you saying. Are all NTCC pastors are stupid because everyone taught it was a sin to wear make-up to include Pastor Davis.
Mr Briggs, what Jeff has stated is a factual statement as I both observed it and my wife experienced it in multiple churches, overseas and stateside. As marriage is a give and take relationship, my wife wears makeup to cover what she percives as facial flaws.
My wife puts my Christianity to shame, she prays with the kids and leads family service everyday prior to the kids going to school.
Bro Johnson
Mr. Briggs,
What about NTCC preachers getting off on killing innocent cats and Rev Davis stating that cats are of the devil because of their slit eyes?
PETA would have a field day with NTCC!!
Bro Johnson
Mr. Johson, killing Cat's is stupid...
Jeff your every argument presupposes your ability to read people minds.
And NTCC did not invent the holiness doctrine nor are we the only group that teaches it.
When a service member puts on a uniform to actually serve the country, and a terrorist puts it on to fool the country to create casulties is there a difference?
Jeff said
Some women just want to try and look prettier for their husband
RB answers
They do? So then why do they only put the make up on when they are going "out" for the day. You mean when they are sitting around the house they get up, put on their make-up and say "Gee, I hope my honey pie notices how fabulous I look".
And do you mean to tell me that you encourage your wife to think that she is not pretty enough for you the way she is... that she needs to get her face "together" if she is going to be seen with you in public?
Does it help the families finanical situation to pay the price for "beauty" and are the manufacturers of such beauty aids using manipulation tactics when they sell the idea that without them you are not worthy of anyones attention or love?
If you had a daughter would you want her wearing the stuff? And if so would you limit the age that she was allowed to start? If so, I want to know what the difference is for a 2 year old wearing make-up and a 32 year old? If it's ok for one it's ok for the other (using your above given logic).
briggs since you live the secluded life in ntcc. You really do not know women that put on make-up. Because that would mean your rubbing elbows with sinners! Gasp!
If you were not so secluded. You would know women DO NOT put on makeup JUST to go outside there home. And women do NOT wear it to make themselve's pretty. They are already pretty. Makeup can inhance what God has already given them. Eye shadow makes the eye color pop. Know there is mineral,NATURAL made blush. IT IS IN to wear it Simple,not gaudy. Light lip gloss or a little color. WOMEN are not putting on makeup to catch a man,go to the club,or make men look at them. It really is not even for there husbands. IT IS FOR THEMSELVE's and them alone! Some ladies do wear it at home. It is prove fact that people that work at home. That do themself up as if there going to the office. Have a more productive day. Even women that do stay at home. If they get up,get dressed,makeup,jewlery on. They have a more productive day,feel better all around!!!!!
But Briggs would not know that. The outside world is to be feared,avoid at all cost!
April
Comparing a 2 year old to a 43 year old. Makes you want to double over and laugh and laugh. With what I said. Women wear it to enhance there features. Two year olds to ten year olds. Do have mommy and daughter dress up days. Or do there nails together. It is called being Pampered. Something women in ntcc do not do. Think of themselve's once in a while! Not cook for the man,clean for the man,iron the mans shirts,ect. Go and grab a coffee,get your nails done.
As far as cost. Most people have there hobbies,or vice's. They spend money on something that is rather meaninless. But makes them happy. Makeup is affordable and guess what there are coupons for items. Does not cost a whole lot to get a few products.
HEY EVERYONE. Do you see how Briggs likes to take ONE part of the entire conversation. Fix on it. And try and DIVERT,DIVERT,DIVERT!
April
To the church members of Bubblesmybug AKA Robert Briggs. Besides dropping the f-bomb you should all go back and read what your pastor has written on factnet. It is quite interesting.
A person asked why not a single person from ntcc has ever tried to get a former member to return to their church.
Briggs was the first to pipe up "there are 6 things the Lord hates, yea the 7th is an abomination". This is how Briggs describes anyone who has left ntcc. He then goes on to call the person who brought this topic up "free2bstupid".
Very fittingly another person added that he thought the pharisses in the bible showed more love than that.
rb said,
"And NTCC did not invent the holiness doctrine nor are we the only group that teaches it."
Let's talk about holiness. I have no problem whatsoever with holiness, but what you should have said is this, "And the ntcc did not invent holiness doctrine nor are we the only cult that teaches it."
I believe that there are a few holiness organizations out there that are real and true, but there are also many cults like the ntcc that use holiness as a tool to control their members. So you want to play the holiness card? If you can answer the following question in a sensible manner so that a 6th grader could understand it, than I will quit blogging for ever.
Why does the majority of ntcc leadership preach standards above and beyond biblical holiness, then break their own un-biblical rules, and then change them (or compromise to put it bluntly), to accommodate the leaders in the highest places of the ntcc, while many that were in the lowest levels of the ntcc were blasted from the pulpit for doing the same things?
I'm sure you know good and well what I'm talking about. But just in case you want to pretend you don't know, I will give you two examples.
1. The kekel kid playing football and participating in secular activities.
2. The ntcc dating rules.
Were these rules biblical to start with? I remember getting blasted for tossing a football around at a servicemen's home. I remember the pulpiteering remarks that football pants were lascivious, exposing the curvature of a man's anatomy. I remember preachers saying how can you play football when souls are dying and going to hell?
Then comes the kekel kid that doesn't want to grow up like a dork as did the other ntcc kid's and the so called "holiness standards" went out the window and all of you ntcc preachers that remained went right along with the hypocrisy.
I remember preachers telling me which sisters I could not talk to, (all the ones that I was interested in) by the way. I remember brothers and sisters being run off because they were interested in members of the opposite sex and the pastor thought that they were not right for each other. I remember personally suffering because the woman that I loved was pushed into going to bs after only being saved for few months and I was not allowed to pursue her just because I wanted to serve my country. "The gifts and callings of God are without repentance" was a scripture that I remember being thrown around at the time. I was told that you can not love someone until you are married and have sex with them. How would they know? Most of them never even dated the woman that they were matched up with.
As has been reported, a few years prior kekel was feeling up rwd's daughter while she was in her mid-teens. What is your policy on dating briggs? I heard that in bs they no longer have to do the wallflower routine. I wonder if they still have to ask permission to talk to another member of the opposite sex? It's all a sick joke where preachers get to play God and decide who talks to who. I know you can't make sense out of this because it is indefensible, unreasonable and inexcusable.
I am so thankful to God that I didn't waste another day in the ntcc. If you choose to be a hypocrite the ntcc is a good place for you. Oh by the way, briggs, is pork chop wiskers or whiskers as it is properly spelled, a name that you called me because you think facial hair on a man is unholy, or does it just make you feel good to say something that sounds funny. Just curious, if facial hair on a man is one of those holiness rules that has been changed or if they still teach it as a false doctrine.
Catch you on the rebound briggs.
Don and Ange
Hey Robert Briggs, is this what your church members pay you a salary to do? To bear false witness and try to argue with people on Jeff's blog?
Why don't you for once actually try to be a Christian and get on your knees and pray for people instead of trying to be a sarcastic smart alec?
You didn't answer my question. Does that lady that has been in "your" church for 6 years know you are talking about her, in a negative light, on Jeff's blog?
You won't be man enough to tell her. I feel sorry for the people at your church, I don't think they are getting their money's worth.
I believe you are pretty easy going Robert Briggs, just as long as that money is in, there ain't nothing you can't work out as long as that money is in.
I wonder if the women that were PUSHED into a marriage before they were even legal age to get married. while in ntcc. Example,Crystal she was in her early teens and she was on the wall. Tanya,Sis,Kinson. And whoever else has either been in ntcc and escaped. Or is still in ntcc. IT DOES NOT MATTER if your still married and you think your happy. You were NOT legal age to get married. BUT your parents consented to allow you to get married. WHY do that?
I knew that If we had stayed in ntcc. I was going to fight with all I had. To make sure my Daughter was not RUSHED into a marriage with some dud of a husband. MOST men while IN NTCC are duds. When people cut themself off from others and life. You become a one track mind. A DUD!
I wanted my Daughter to have a choice on HER OWN. To decide for college,get a job. Her OWN PATH! These ladies that got married before legal age. Never got that choice. All they knew was the ministry. They were cut off from the outside world. They felt protected,taken care of,decision made for them. It was safe to get married and go out into a work. When you know nothing else. A person takes the path that is less restricted!
Take these same ladies. Have a normal childhood with friends from school,not just ntcc friends. Have activities with friends. See what it is like outside of that FENCE! I bet they would not be rushing to get married at 15 years old. My Daughter is 15 years old right now. a FRESHMEN in highschool. NO WAY is she mature and ready for marriage. She has all she has to get her homework done and chores finished.
April
RB said...
They do? So then why do they only put the make up on when they are going "out" for the day. You mean when they are sitting around the house they get up, put on their make-up and say "Gee, I hope my honey pie notices how fabulous I look".
Jeff said...
If they did that while they were dating (which they do), then why would it be so strange for them to do it when they are married? Do you ever comb your hair when you are not leaving the house? Do you ever comb your hair when you are leaving the house when your wife is not with you? So according to your logic that means you are sinning if you do. Aren't you saying that it's a sin to try and look good for anyone other than your spouse? That is what you were suggesting.
Your logic is not good and you are trying to play God by thinking you have the psychological power to determine everyone's motives and besides, what is wrong with wanting to look good.
Oh I forgot. It's ok for a man to want to look good when he goes out without his wife but it's not ok for the wife to want to look good when she goes out without her husband.
Jeff
Pastor Briggs said...
And NTCC did not invent the holiness doctrine nor are we the only group that teaches it.
Jeff said...
And you're also not the only group that bends the rules when it's convenient. So wearing make-up is a sin then suddenly it's not when it suits your agenda.
Pastor Briggs wrote...
And do you mean to tell me that you encourage your wife to think that she is not pretty enough for you the way she is... that she needs to get her face "together" if she is going to be seen with you in public?
Jeff said...
I never even suggested that, nor did I say I do that, nor do I do that. What I'm saying is that you said it's alright for some people to wear make-up but you suggested that it isn't alright for woman to wear make-up unless she is dressing up (for example) to look like a clown. In that case you've suggested that it's alright to wear make-up. What I'm saying is that you can't pick and choose and you can't read a woman's mind either. You also can't claim that it is a sin for a woman to desire to look better than she already does when you are doing that every time you comb your hair. It's the usual NTCC double standard Pastor Briggs.
Jeff
Pastor Briggs asked...
If you had a daughter would you want her wearing the stuff? And if so would you limit the age that she was allowed to start? If so, I want to know what the difference is for a 2 year old wearing make-up and a 32 year old? If it's ok for one it's ok for the other (using your above given logic).
Jeff said...
I wouldn't want my daughter painting her face to look like a clown but according to you that's alright. So you would rather have your daughter wanting to look like a clown vs hide some facial blemishes? Once again you are picking and choosing when it's alright to wear make-up and I say if you are going to call it a sin, you can't decide to pick and choose when you think it's not. Then it has nothing to do with the Bible but only your personal feelings which are clearly motivated by RWD who is a chauvinist other than toward his daughter. It's ok for her to wear tight booty hugging dresses.
Who is she trying to show her booty for when she is out in her tight dress? Is that a sin because she wants to look good. Just so you know I don't encourage woman to wear make-up. That doesn't mean that I don't know why they do it. They do it because they think it makes them look better then they already do and that is the same reason that you iron your slacks and shine your shoes and comb your hair and shave your face. So are you sinning every time you do one of those things? Your shoes will work just as good without kiwi caked on them and in fact the leather will last longer without a spit shine. Spit shining makes leather crack prematurely.
I want to make sure that I understand. Is it a sin to do something to your body in an attempt to look better? Are all these NTCC woman who work out sinning because they are trying to make their body look better outside the home. Oh that's right, they only do it for when they go back home to their wonderful husbands. Well if that is the case then I say women who put on make-up are only doing it for when they are back at home because they think it makes them look better for their husbands.
You can't say that a woman can do everything humanly imaginable in an attempt to look better other than wear make-up. The Bible doesn't teach that. Vanity is vanity and your wingtips are vanity and your nice suit is vanity and your fresh hair cut is vanity and your shaved face (which you shave unlike Jesus because he wore a beard) is vanity and Tanya Kekels tight dress is vanity and her high heeled shoes are vanity and her curly hair is vanity and if it's not? Then neither is wearing make-up. You can't have it both ways Pastor Briggs.
Jeff
HEY ANON SAID:
I believe you are pretty easy going Robert Briggs, just as long as that money is in, there ain't nothing you can't work out as long as that money is in.
I Say
First of all my church members don't pay me. I have my own business venture to as Greg said "Suppliment God's Provisions" do you want to buy something?
Second when I left Washington I was making more then 6,000 a week at my job. More then any church has ever paid me for 2 months of my time.
And the woman that I spoke about is our greatest supporter. Yes I talked to her just for you tonight in fact. Do you know who she is?
And as for praying for people how do you KNOW ANYTHING that I pray... I didn't know Jesus Blogged?
ANON 2 said
You were NOT legal age to get married.
I SAY
Since people brought up my exwife Amy let me fill you in on something. We got married (as sinners) when she was 15 and I was 19. To do that we had to go to court and stand before a judge with her mother and explain why we wanted to get married. The judge asked questions and then ordered hours of pre-marital counseling before we could get married. Once that was done we had to go back to court and show proof that the counseling was done and give the Counselors opinion on the viability of our "union" BEFORE they allowed it.
In short, regardless of the age, even if the parents want to allow the marriage in Washington State at least an underage person has to have a JUDGES approval before they can get married. So that beats your argument that they were "under age".... they were granted legal authority to do so.
Jeff Siad
They do it because they think it makes them look better then they already do and that is the same reason that you iron your slacks and shine your shoes and comb your hair and shave your face.
I SAY
No Jeff they do it because they are insecure about how they look. They too iron their close, so that cancels the irnong slacks out. They comb their hair so that cancels out the men's hair. But they are the ones that feel it makes them look better... Question... why the older a woman gets the less she wears makeup? That's when she needs it the most if it makes her look so much "better".
Make up is vain. Do I think if a woman has a big red zit on the end of her nose and she puts a dab of cover up over it that she has sinned.... SHHHHHHHHH don't tell no onne this but NO I DON"T THINK SHE HAS SINNED.
Do I understand why women feel the pressure to have to beautify themselves with the stuff sure as much as Any MAN can understand it. But that's where Christian men assure their women they are beautiful the way they are.
Is it wrong for a pastor to try to get people to be happy with who they are and not feel societies pressure to fit in. And Hollywoods pressure on how they should look? No.
Do I think a pastor should tell a woman she is going to hell for it. NO... And I DEFY anyone to give me a time (relative) and place (Definitive) where Pastor Davis ever did. Or any other board member for that matter.
But understand to simply say "he has and you know it" is not good enough you need to site a time place and your own personal experience and not what someone else told you that someone else heard, that someone else related that he said.
As far as people that have left and whether or not I am praying for them. I do, in fact pray for many of them. In fact I have a man in my congregation now who was once a pastor for our organization, who is in a Doctoral program at University of Texas that drives 3 hours to our church on the weekends? Several ex members of our organization are on our blog and one family even registered today (thanks to this exchange). He called me one day out of the blue 2 or 3 months ago and wanted to come down and has been almost every weekend since. His words were “Thank you for your kindness and acceptance. I didn’t know what to expect but I feel at home here.”
I love Greg and Debbie but hate what they are doing. Funny no one commented (including Greg) on the plane tickets I gave her, the job I gave her, the help I gave them in cleaning their house and selling their goods. Those things of themselves should have been reason enough on their part at least to respect our history together and leave me alone. But that's what friendships are for disregarding one another and trying to bring someone down.
Back when Greg was making his defense of our organization and Holiness I was right along with many of you who couldn't believe some of the stuff he used as reasons for his outward holiness teachings. And I know he didn't get that "Vulva" stuff from Pastor. Was his warped holiness teaching a product of teaching or a product of his own making? I think the latter. Should we go copy and paste all of his writings then to show how he has waffled over the years?
How about Nichols defenses should I get them because they are there.
And Brian Pelfrey’s his was a great defense… Even went so far as to say he “audibly heard go tell him ‘This is the place’ when he first walked into an NTCC church in PI.
See, I have stayed the same now for 6 years. My position has been clear. No need to rehash that. If someone here wants a more complete understanding of certain doctrines or why I preach certain things and what my explanation of scripture is I invite them to write me at pastor@ntccpasadenatx.org but with one understanding. It is not to debate. Question, discuss, but not argue. And our discussions are our discussions they are not to be brought out onto a blog for the simple reason that if someone wants to know something they need to be man or woman enough to ask for themselves. Or they don’t need to know. I have one more post and then I am done here on this blog and that is coming next.
Inquiring minds want to know about the “Knights” experience.
Well lets go there shall we and then we will be through here, you’ve wasted to much of my time already.
In 2003 I was at a very difficult time in my ministry. I was pastoring in Chattanooga but things were tough. I had a good job but the church was not so good. Though it was larger then ever before. And though it had more money than it had the bills were still not being met by the offerings and tithe. I of my own free will and discretion took my personal finances and paid church rents and utilities while neglecting my own. Finally I couldn’t do it anymore and asked for either a replacement or church closure. The latter was the course that was determined. I asked if I could come back to Washington to get my financial status in order and to regroup and figure out what God wanted done in my life. That permission was given.
Next I called a (then) good friend (Brian) and asked if they had a job. I had a toddler, a 7 month pregnant wife, and about $250 to my name. A few days passed and he told me come on we will figure something out. That was good news. He asked me to give them as much time as I could so they could figure out what they could help me with and that I should call them when I was headed their way. We then decided to spend a week with my wife’s family (Lubbock, TX) and a week with my own (Phoenix, AZ) to give them time. I called as he asked when we got to Phoenix.. no answer left message. A day before we were to leave called again.. left message again. I called that night (I believe it was) and left another message saying “Brian I need to know before I leave here if you guys have something for me. If not that’s fine but I don’t want to bring my wife up there if I don’t have a job waiting for me” no return call.
So the day I was to leave I decided that the best course was to leave my wife with her family. At this point I didn’t think I had a job waiting (which I was right about) and I didn’t want to take a chance on not having a place for us to stay. Figured it was easier for me alone and more comfortable for her to be with her family.
Fast forward 6 months or so. Finally I got a job with the “brethren”. My deal was this. You sell and get 2% commission on everything you sell. No base salary just commission. An average insulation job is about 1200 or so for a normal house. Two percent of that is $24 so you can see I had to sell a lot to make a living. For the first 12 months I worked their I had some pay check of a less then $100 with a low of $54. By this time I had my wife there, my daughter, and my new son. I worked 10 – 12 hours a day five days a week. My first years gross was around $12,000.
Now there came a point in that year when I was frantic. I was in trouble when I came, I was now in a live or die state. It came to a point where I couldn’t do it anymore we had an argument and I quite and was headed out to my car. Brian and Al followed me and tried to talk me into “staying”. In our argument which issued about the situation I did throw down my brief case. I did stand face to face with Al and I did curse the word was Sh** and I did say I couldn’t take it anymore. Only three people where there Me, Al and Brian and only we can say what actually happened.
We worked things out that day. I stayed on and after the second year I was grossing close to $100,000 (over 6,000 a week). When that happened the brothers who couldn’t help me when my checks were low wanted then to cut my checks back because I was making to much. Well, my response was simple. You didn’t give me help then your not going to cut me back now. If they could only pay me what I was earning when I was selling less then $100 a week. When I had 6,000 they couldn’t start hedging either.
There is much more I could write about our “discussions” while I worked there but there is no need but let me say this of what I have written above. It was a sin when I cursed…. And I did have to repent… That would have unfit me from the ministry if I was in the active ministry at the time… I was not because I had removed myself.
But let me ask you something would any of you be willing to reveal things so personal about yourself? How about my article you wouldn’t dare to do something like that when you were “in” but why? Because like the woman with the make-up you are to concerned about what people think of you. I even told this story to some brethren at fellowship tonight after church. I don’t have anything to hide.
Anyway, I take that with Jeff’s new found niceness and Greg’s confirmation my articles will remain on my blog and not be copied and brought here. And so I go to do my work. If anyone wants me the email exchange is the only way I will now respond because this is going back to what we have already talked about (this same information above is written on factnet if you want to search through the reams of useless information contained there.
Good bye
Wow, Pastor Briggs...
I'm glad your story didn't get deleted. I just got a chance to read it after explaining our misunderstanding. I'm being sincere here. That was a real good testimony. Once again, sorry it didn't get posted sooner. I'd rather this automatic spam filter (that I have no control of) didn't exist. If you post something that doesn't show or it disappears, write a quick note saying, "check your spam folder" or something like that. I'll make sure your messages get posted.
Jeff
Pastor Briggs said...
No Jeff they do it because they are insecure about how they look. They too iron their close, so that cancels the irnong slacks out. They comb their hair so that cancels out the men's hair. But they are the ones that feel it makes them look better...
Jeff said...
According to your logic you shave your face so that cancels out them putting on make-up. Come on Pastor Briggs.... So your sin cancels out theirs? This ain't about one sin canceling out another. This is about vanity. You say the woman who wears make-up is quote "insecure" and as a result you're suggesting that she has to take vain steps (which you consider sin to compensate for her insecurity). Well I say you are doing the same thing when you shave your face and comb your hair and so is she. Instead of taking all the time needed to perm and curl her hair and you taking the time to shave your face every day why and iron your shirts why not just wash and wear and grow a beard like Christ did? Is it the same as your logic, because you are insecure? No, it's because you want to look better than you do naturally, and that is the exact same reason that a woman wears make-up. So are you saying that a woman can be insecure but a man can't?
Before my hair started falling out I would comb it to make myself look better. So because I wanted to look better (than I did with it un-combed) did that make me insecure? You shave your face because you believe it makes you look better. Some men grow beards (like Jesus did) because they think it makes them look better. Is everyone insecure because they take the time to try and look better? Pastor Briggs, your logic is totally flawed and the lack thereof is evident. What I wrote just made complete sense.
You NTCC guys are picking and choosing who is allowed to make themselves look better and because RWD is a chauvinist you've been taught that it's ok for men to want to look better but the buck stops with women because if she goes too far to make herself look better you say she is quote "insecure" Well I say you are wrong and the real reason you are worried about your NTCC women wanting to look better is because you NTCC men are quote "insecure". Keep them looking dumpy, lock up in the house without a job and you don't have to worry about loosing them. You guys are the ones who are insecure, not the woman.
Jeff
Pastor Briggs wrote...
Make up is vain. Do I think if a woman has a big red zit on the end of her nose and she puts a dab of cover up over it that she has sinned.... SHHHHHHHHH don't tell no onne this but NO I DON"T THINK SHE HAS SINNED.
Jeff said...
Do you see Pastor Briggs? You just wrote that make-up is quote "vain". And you know what? I agree with you, but so is spit shining shoes and putting sharp creases in you shirts and shaving your face. It is all vain. The author of Ecclesiastes taught us that essentially, everything you do in this world is vain. Vanity in it self is not sin or you couldn't help but sin every day which really every NTCC pastor that I ever knew did anyway. Shining your car is vain, curling your hair is vain, painting your walls a different color is vain, the neat little trinket you hang from your rear view mirror is vain, your wifes nice high heeled shoes are vain. Do you get my point? And then here is the other problem.
If you say the woman with the big zit on the end of her nose can cover it up with a little bit of make-up you just opened up the flood gates for women to wear make-up. What are you going to do? Line up all the women in church and inspect their faces and you be the one to decide if the make-up they wear is really used only to cover up a zit or simply used because they are acting vain that day?
This is where you NTCC guys drop the ball with effective leadership. You think you can have it both ways but you can't. Oh you can if you want, but thousands of people think you are practicing double standards when you do it and is that what you want? You can't tell the one woman it's ok to wear make-up because she has a zit, but the other it's not ok because she is trying to cover up what she also considers an imperfection and that is where the double standards come in. I'm telling you I know what I'm talking about. If you are going to say wearing make-up is a sin, then nobody should wear it, and if it's really not a sin, then quit trying to pick and choose who can. Let God work it out and stop trying to play God by assuming that you know who is acting vain and who is not.
Jeff
Hey, did everyone get to read Pastor Briggs' testimony? The dude seems real and he was treated real bad. I can totally empathize with what he went through. So many other NTCC ministers went through the same thing. I don't think Pastor Briggs was looking for sympathy but nevertheless I fell sorry for him as a result of what he went through.
Look, the man was trying to take care of his family and his calls weren't even returned. Then when he was struggling, it was what it was until he started making good cash and the swindlers wanted him to cut back on his check. Did you all read that? That is the kind of stuff that makes my blood boil.
You know when it comes right down to it, many of us are a lot alike. I don't know if Pastor Briggs is trying to get into my head but if he is he is doing a good job. Old Briggs said he was trained as some kind of a shrink. I've learned a valuable lesson here. Don't be so hot headed and don't be too quick to judge people. Pastor Briggs and I have practically been arch enemies, but I'm beginning to see him in a whole different light. He is not much different then I am.
I know what people are thinking. "Jeff is just trying to get into Briggs head". No, that is not the case here. Just read Pastor Briggs testimony. For a change, I'm feeling compassion for the guy, not anger or contempt. I haven't liked Pastor Briggs at all, but strangely right this moment, I'm feeling different about him. He's gone through the same thing we all have, and he is just a man and in this particular occasion he is not trying to come across as anything more. I never thought I'd say this but the way I see it, Pastor Briggs has a better chance at making it to heaven then 99% of the crooks that I've know in the NTCC. He humbled himself with his testimony and I would have never expected that with him. This world is a strange place and the paths that people travel in the world often take them in some unexpected changes in direction.
Last night I din't like Pastor Briggs and this morning I do. I still don't agree with his views, though I understand why he feels the way he does because he's been in the NTCC for many years. It wasn't long ago that I felt the same way.
Let's try this. We can discuss apposing views without throwing out the insults. I've been as guilty at that as anyone and more so. I've been calling Briggs, "Pastor or Mr." now for a few days, and I'm going to try and take this blog to another level. I'm going to attempt to refrain from throwing out insults. Please don't think I'm a door mat though because I will fire back if fired at.
Just read Pastor Briggs testimony and tell me if your emotional response isn't compassion. It sure was mine.
Having said all that I still don't agree with many of the NTCCs or Pastor Briggs' views. I won't be going back to the NTCC folks; don't worry about that. I'm not getting soft either, just a slight change in direction. We don't need to be jumping all over Pastor Briggs and Pastor Briggs: Please don't jump all over us. We could all stop with the name calling and insults. Christ wore a beard and there is nothing wrong if some of us do.
Jeff
In all of Briggs complaining here about everyone else - He never once POINTS THE FINGER AT DAVIS.
Why?
Every Ntcc pastor in the country pays their own church bills, out of their own pocket, or through convincing the congregation to pay it. Briggs states the Chattanooga church was larger than ever before and had more money than ever before, yet it WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH.
Is anything ever good enough for Davis?
Where is the testimony from Brigggs about how Davis and Olsen were there for him and helped him and helped him with his church in Chatanooga or helped him when he came back to Washington. Maybe I missed that part. Or is there no testimony to their care, concern, and help?
I am not attacking Briggs, but he makes a current classic point of the condition of every ntcc preacher out there and why they should leave.
He also, as a current Christian Pastor, took a personal attack at someone who is not here to defend themselves and so I wanted to point out to this Christian Pastor how that goes against what he teaches.
Let's pretend for an instance that Brigggs story about Knight's Insulation is true and what he says about Brian and Al are true (take that with a grain of salt). Where was God to help him get a job? Where was Davis and Olsen? Did Brian and Al owe him a job? Even though he was in a different state? He just seeems so angry at the wrong people.
And let's say for a moment Brian and Al did wrong Brigggs by promising him a job and not getting right back to his phone calls. And then by only having enough work the first year for him to make $12,000. He must have been on some serious welfare in order to make ends meet for a family of four. Did they make him stick around for that year? Were there no other jobs in Puget Sound? My husband earned great money while we were up there. Kent was loaded with good paying jobs. But it seems to me they made it up to him when he was there by allowing him to earn $100k the next year.
It is all about the pressure that Davis puts on pastors and preachers that should be noticed here.
Pressure to the point that Briggs resorted to turning off the air conditioning of his church and closing all the windows during a hot day to convince his congregation to give more money to help pay the bills because he was tired of trying to pay it all himself.
Davis is in the business of taking money... not helping or giving it.
To stay a Pastor in ntcc, you must eventually completely sell out and look at the church as a business. And that's really sad.
The first day I left ntcc I walked to the library in Puyallup, googled ntcc churches, and for years after poured my heart out on several forums describing what I have witnessed.
I have not stayed the same as Briggs boasts. I have grown in maturity to stand up for myself, think for myself, and to push myself to learn and study things for myself. A far cry from my days in the ntcc seminary.
Jeff,
Every time I clicked on publish, it told me my word verification was wrong and it would kick me out.
There's nothing like putting a lot of time into a post and having it deleted!! But instead I think it got posted a few times. Phew.
Thanks Jeff for letting us all talk here. I know having a blog can be a real pain in the butt, but this is also everybody's cheap therapy here lol.
Robert Briggs you have sinned again and bore false witness against me again.
I can give you the correct information and hopefully you will apologize here or I can email you directly.
Since you check Jeff's blog everyday then I will probably just bring out the details here, later, when I feel like it.
MEN have really NO CLUE why women wear make-up. ARE YOU A WOMAN? I do not think so. So why do you really think you know why women wear make-up,jewlery,nice shoes,cute outfit.
Same as a man going to get a nice suit,styles his hair,finds a nice tie and cuff links. Men do the samething. Women call it pampering,men call it looking put together.
ALOT of women wear make-up to ENHANCE there features that God already blessed them with.
Men have no clue! As far as older ladies. When they know how to put on just the right amount. Some lose interest in looking PUT TOGETHER. It has nothing with ONLY putting it on to intice a man,or any other stupid idea men have!
BUT I can tell that men like Briggs are going to stay stuck in there stinkin thinking. Until God really gets a hold of there brain. Lose the ntcc brainwashed false teaching FOG! He will come to his sense's!
April
Hey Pastor Briggs: About a week ago, google changed google blogs so that they have a built in spam filter that the moderator can't disable. I tried and there was nothing I could do to shut it off. Well sometimes the blog automatically blocks certain posts that it percieves to contain spam and then I have to manually publish the posts when I go to the default spam folder. Such was the case with a few of your posts. As soon as I saw them this morning I posted them.
Sorry if there was a misunderstanding. The funny thing is the other day I had thought that somehow you had figured a way to hack into this blog because many of my posts were disappearing as soon as I posted them. Ha, ha, LOL. I'm not kidding. So I searched and searched and I googled the problem and found that this new automatic spam filter has been doing the same thing to every google blog moderator. So I went to the administrator comments section on this blog and I noticed a spam folder that was full of un-posted messages many of which were mine. Ha, ha. LOL. I do understand what you thought was happening to your messages but it really wasn't me. I don't blame you for feeling that way because I would have thought the exact same thing. Your messages will get posted here and I wasn't deleting or choosing not to post your messages.
I will check the spam folder throughout the day to make sure nothing is being stored there.
Sincerely,
Jeff
Hey I thought Old Pastor Briggs wrote a good testimony. I think he and I have both turned a new leaf. We'll see.
Hey everyone, if you haven't read my last post to Pastor Briggs, the anti spam engine on google blogs (which I can't disable because I would if I could) is blocking some messages that folks are writing. Some messages are automatically going to this blogs spam folder and there is nothing I can do to stop it. If you write a message and it's not immediately posted to the blog, it probably automatically went to the spam folder and I'll post your message as soon as I log on. I had a bunch of messages that I wrote which went to the spam folder and it took me a while to find them because at the time I didn't yet know what was happening.
Jeff
First all all Robert Briggs, "your" church members absolutely do pay you because your wood carving alone isn't going to pay your bills!
I feel sorry for the woman in "your" church that you talked on this blog. And she is your greatest supporter, but yet you spoke about her in a negative light on this blog. How many others have you done this to?
While you are out in your garage carving wood can you please carve this one for me, "Thou shalt not bear false witness." Keep carving it until you begin to live it!
On the make-up issue: "It doesn't matter how many coats of paint you put on an old barn, it is still an old barn." rwd
I believe that the ntcc's stand is not correct in that they use the make-up issue to separate them from others and to say, "look how holy we are". My own personal belief is that Women look good without it, but I do not think that if a woman wants to use it that she is a sinner or any less of a Christian than I am. I am a Man and couldn't begin to say that I understand the issue more than a woman, therefore I do not judge or look down on anyone for how they stand on this issue. When briggs says that he defies us to find one instance when rdub preached that a woman would die and go to hell for wearing make-up, he's right as far as I know, but what he doesn't admit is all the times rdub makes statements like the one above or calls a woman Jezebel with war paint insinuating that they are rebellious, crossed up with God and on their way to hell. What's the difference?
They have put themselves in a high and lofty position of we are right and everyone else is wrong. Hell is a place everyone goes that does not live according to the bible, but what they do at the ntcc is allow their own personal convictions to become sin and then project them in a way that publicly embarrasses those that don't hold this same conviction as offenders of God's commandments. "Rebellious" is their favorite term to describe a woman that wears make-up or pants.
When I was in ntcc, if a man wore jeans he was preached at. There might be X-er or two that has a personal preference not to wear jeans, I choose to wear them. While I was in ntcc, I didn't dare wear jeans because I didn't want to be lumped in with the brethren that were looked at as compromisers. Those that wore mustaches were also grouped in with the same bunch and looked down at. I was shocked the first time I went to the campground and saw johnson and others wearing jeans. This is why we speak out against double standards and hypocrisy.
briggs acts incredulous when you mention other preachers that hold these ntcc false teachings but you can tell in his explanation of make-up that he uses the same loaded cult jargon to condemn people. The ones that fall into line and go over and above the bible standards and actually keep the ntcc standards are the ones that are praised and everyone shouts "Amen" and "Preach" in the church and the ones that keep bible standards but do not quite live up to ntcc standards are the ones that are publicly humiliated and usually don't make it very long at all in the ntcc. What is very sad about this is that they end up thinking that its God that is publicly humiliating them and they leave the church and God at the same time. Do you think, briggs, that you might have to answer for this at some point? This is how I feel about it. I think that ntcc preachers have far more to answer for than the ones that wear make-up or pants or earings or jewelry or facial hair. I think that if it were so important to emphasize these outward things, and that if they had anything to do a persons salvation, that Jesus would have said something about them, but he didn't.
Jesus did say, "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." Mt 23:23 This referring to the law.
It amazes me that ministers in the ntcc that have been in the borg for over 20 years still have that judgmental attitude and will not even consider for one minute that they may be wrong.
Don and Ange
Robert, your website has some interesting content but it all comes to nought when you come on Jeff's Blog and try to slander me again. With you trying to slander me again you can forget me visiting your blog again.
First of all Robert Briggs would you please stop with your lies. Find out if what you are saying is true first, before trying to slander someone. Remember you are "supposed" to be a Christian first "let alone" an example to others.
Since you want to lie about me then I should have the right to answer for myself.
The first lie#1 you told, and I quote, "The man's son, wife, and sister in law brought a cell phone video to me of him masturbating..."
My wife ONLY told you about the video. My son & sister in law never brought you no such video. You then wanted my wife to send the video and she could not do it.
You never saw any video of me masturbating. Have you ever masturbated Robert Briggs? and why ON EARTH would you want to see a video of me masturbating???
What me and my wife did between me and her was our business alone. Why she wanted to show you the video I do not know. Do you think it's a sin to masturbate Robert? If thats the case then you would be a sinner.
Your lie#2 that you told is that I made a video of me talking about "my hatred for blacks and hispanics and my desire that they should all die." YOU NEVER SAW NO SUCH VIDEO AND I NEVER SAID NO SUCH THING!!! You owe me an apology.
I gave the best 15 years of my life to my Hispanic wife. If you REALLY wanted to know what I said on that silly video I made why did you not ask me? Or at least get 2 or 3 witnesses.
You continued on with your slander, "Now that was just one of many, many, many, instances..." Wow Robert that is a nice way to keep you from thinking up more lies just to say "many, many, many,"
If they are so many then let's hear some more of your false witness and trying to slander me instead of just saying, "...many, many, many," like your some sort of judge that we must approve ourselves to.
"I am not however overly optimistic when their pattern of behaviour spanned a total of more than 20 years..." Wow Robert I didn't know you were watching me for 20 years!
I was telling people about Jesus when you were doing chocolate meth. You don't know me & then you act like some pious judge that has determined my "pattern" for 20 years.
You need help. Then you "tried" to accuse me of some silly "poop smearing" incident that occured in front of "your" church.
And then there was the "Crumb" incident when Crumb told me himself you made him suspicious of me & then you called me up YELLING and SCREAMING with your "so called passion" falsely accusing me of talking about you to Jonathon Crumb.
You had tried to get others in "your" church to spy on me and report in to you including Jonathon Crumb. You were desperate to find something. Why? Only you really know Robert but you did me a favor for sure.
God has blessed me tremendously since you "cast me out of the synagogue."
The last conference you were wondering whether or not to resign your pastorialship? You need help Robert.
I can totally understanding you wanting to resign but regardless, you owe me an apology for lying about me, trying to slander me, and bearing false witness.
Mr. you know who you are. Keep telling your lies adn I will expose your name. Right now only you and I and Jeff know who you are. But if you want to accuse of lies I will protect my reputation. After all I have demonstrated on many occassions here and other places that I have nothing to hide. I have not mentioned your name but I have no compunction of doing so if you inist on forcing my hand. You have wronged our church over and over. You wronged your family. You wronged your own reputation. You sir are the reason for all of your failures because you have played with God for so long. So, the ball is in your court. No appology is forthcoming because I have not wronged you publically. It's funny that when my name gets brought up and I defend it I'm troubled. I just mention what you did without revealing who you are and your wigging out like you've been exposed... you haven't but you are a few keystrokes away.
Bye unless you sir and only you want more!
You lied about me on this blog Robert Briggs. You can say my name all day long if you want but you lied and bore false witness against me and I WILL defend myself Robert Briggs.
You check Jeff's blog daily & then you decided to bear false witness against me AGAIN. You owe me an apology for your false witness against me.
You've got plenty of time go ahead and try to say some more lies. Your probably not doing much tomorrow morning so sit down at Jeff's blog and do some more of your
"passionate" yelling and screaming. That is what this blog is for, but when you come on here lying Robert I WILL DEFEND MYSELF.
I like what a cult follower posted on Mike's blog. That they were happy that Mike was brave enough to post the TRUTH on a public forum. EXACTLY what so many of us are doing. There is NO hatred,evil driving people that escape ntcc. Plain and simple we are Brave enough to go public with our TRUE stories. Know we got our voice back. We want the world to know about this cult.
April
Later today I'm planning on creating a Halloween or Holiday thread where I will transfer many of the comments posted here. I'm just feeling that the original intent of this thread was somewhat changed due to folks having a difference of opinion concerning Halloween. That's fine with me but I'd like to see that material found under a title that it pertains to.
Thanks you all for your understanding.
Jeff.
Going back to the "study in briggs"
at least now we know that he is not really following the advice of the leadership concerning visiting the enemy's camp.
He,Briggs didn't really go into detail and stating the things that he had in mind for wanting to resign, but he knows and we all know what they are. Things don't add up.
blovd
blovd said...
Things don't add up.
Jeff said...
A little says a lot! When things don't add up, there is nothing wrong with questioning them in your mind and or openly to the pastor as it pertains to the NTCC. When you are able to do that, you are no longer "brainwashed". It's healthy to question things in your mind or you simply become a sucker which many of us were (to include myself) while we were with the NTCC.
Jeff
Going back to the "study in briggs"
at least now we know that he is not really following the advice of the leadership concerning visiting the enemy's camp.
Bloved, if you have ever studied the Civil War, the same thing happened. The North and South shot at each other during the day, but hung out together and drank beer at night,
But: They both worshiped the same God. Interesting parallels!
Bro Johnson
Rev Briggs,
Is John MacDonald still preaching in the NTCC?
I emailed Rev Kekel but did not get a response.
Silence in the NTCC usually means NO.
Bro Johnson
Pastor Briggs wrote: “Funny no one commented (including Greg) on the plane tickets I gave her, the job I gave her, the help I gave them in cleaning their house and selling their goods.”
Pastor Briggs also wrote: “Ask Greg who rose up when he was called to Korea and had to leave on a moments notice? Who came into the mess of his house and put things in order, helped sell what he wanted sold. Cleaned his house? And that after never haven been treated by him in a friendly manner. Ask his wife who gave her a job when she was abandoned by her first husband.....Ask her who gave her an airplane ticket to and from conference when she was not able to raise the funds herself....
PLANE TICKET: One time (she did thank-you for it), and she did not solicit this; you did it on your own.
JOB: When you found out my wife was looking for work, you came to her (volunteered again). You did not give her a job, she put in an application where you worked (at your suggestion), and you vouched for her. She went to an interview, and got the job.
HOUSE CLEANING: We did not ask you, you volunteered (again); or ‘rose up’ as you so proudly put it. For doing this for us I told you to keep whatever furnishings were left (and a lot of nice stuff was left), and/or give it away, and/or keep the money for anything you sold. Later I found out three Sisters (your wife, Sister Gesang, and Sister Smart) had volunteered (or you ‘hired’ them) to clean the house we rented from Pastor Davis. I asked them (at the next conference) if you paid them after they did the work; they said no, so I paid them between $150 and $200 each, on the spot.
Regardless, when Deborah and/or I do something for someone, we don’t feel they owe us, or use it as leverage to get something from them (or get them to do something for us) in the future, or use it against them. I am disappointed to see you don’t abide by this same universal standard. We also don’t feel beholden to anyone who might do something for us (but, we do thank them). We do things for people because helping others is the right thing to do; not to ‘repay’ them.
So, why did I take so long (as Pastor Briggs’ inferred) to respond? Is it because he ‘rose up’ and put me in my place?
As a personal rule I don’t rush in to correct every incorrect thing said about me and my family. For example, I have yet to respond to the hit piece about my wife and I which Rev. Kekel authored, and posted on his blog (I have had a response ready since April 2010) on 20 April 2010 . I even posted a detailed summary of Pastor Kelel’s ‘shunk’ article on Deborah’s blog to ensure maximum exposure.
I prefer to let inaccuracies stand unchallenged for a while. My reasons for this are at least two-fold. It re-re-re-proves to me personally (and anyone else who is paying attention) NTCC engages in what they can only accuse us of (spreading slander, gossip, liable, rumor, innuendo, etc.). And, it throws more dirt in the face (in my opinion) of the one slinging the mud when/if I eventually decide to respond.
But, in any interim, people call/email us (those inside and out) to get our side/clarification (including about the ‘shunk’ article). It is comforting to know there are many still in NTCC which have talked to my wife and I (we also provide documentation as desired), that know the real story (or the more complete version) while they continue to observe all the leadership does during the almost constant damage control phase of NTCC’s continuing development.
(their own words and conduct) ÷ (knowledge of the truth) = damning/influential evidence against NTCC.
NTCC is winning!
Gregory
A lot of these people like Briggs are used to having a pulpit and no one can challenge him on what he says. Except Davis.
Just because I have the other side of the story doesn't make me a gossiper or a liar, Briggs just can't handle it. I'm not searching for answers, I'm telling you like it is and putting it in front of your face because no one in your congregation is allowed to do that.
I am not a Christian so condemning me to hell carries no fear for me. Yet I know the Bible and your faith better than most. That's why I enjoy pointing out your inconsitencies. I hate hypocrisy and bullies.
Mt 25: 41-45 not only says to take care of the naked, sick, prisoners, and the hungry... but if you carefully read the first verse, God condemns those to hellfire who don't do this.
Briggs you should quit listening to Davis and Olsen and read your Bible more. It is a very interesting book.
That said, I have nothing but respect for Deb and Greg Shunk and I think they are good people.
Jeff said: Some women just want to try and look prettier for their husband.
I say: Every morning I have a routine. I get up, get my bed made, get dressed, go fix my hair and makeup. Most days I never leave the house, but it makes me feel better about myself when I look my best, and I know my husband appreciates the little effort I put into making myself look nice. So how is my motivation in any way wrong Rev. Briggs? Why should I feel guilty for wanting to look good for my husband? People like you saying that women wear makeup to look like sluts should really examine themselves and the contents of their own hearts, for seeing sin in the actions of every one around them, even when sin does not exist in the person next to them. Well... I can't say anyone is completely without sin, because that would be unbiblical, so I suppose the better words would be even when sin does not exist where you are looking. I am not sinning by putting on makeup, I am making myself look good for my husband and family.
Equally irritating to me are those that insist that the only way to dress modestly is in a dress or skirt. I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with that, since I don't wear "skinny jeans" or leotards I had to pour myself into. I can be modest in the way I dress without having to put on a skirt.
It's 23 degrees out today. Wonder how many women are out soul winning on Tuesday morning in Graham. Or did they have to cancel it because the ladies can't stay warm with their skirts on?
Anonymous said, "People like you saying that women wear makeup to look like sluts should really examine themselves and the contents of their own hearts, for seeing sin in the actions of every one around them, even when sin does not exist in the person next to them. Well... I can't say anyone is completely without sin, because that would be unbiblical, so I suppose the better words would be even when sin does not exist where you are looking." -- Anonymous
Don and Ange say,
You make some excellent points, Anon. ntcc is more sinful in the way they treat people so cruelly often over things like make-up or T.V.; such things are not sin. But so many in ntcc have that evil eye, that pride that says, "She must be a slut for wearing make-up." What? What is in your heart if you see women that way, based only on a simple exterior factor like make-up? Or how about years and years of pulpit bullies condemning those who watch T.V. The choice of what someone watches should be based on their God given freewill, not dictated by a bully in a pulpit. If pulpit bullies think T.V. is evil, they should not watch. But you have to wonder what is in their heart if they only see the evil or potential for evil in everything.
Charity (love) thinketh no evil. How can you say you have the love of God for others when everyday you see only evil in others? Have you ever noticed that people accuse others of the sin they themselves are guilty of committing? The Pharisees accused Jesus of being a blasphemer (their sin). Perhaps the man who only sees sluts when a woman wears make-up has a secret struggle to hookup with a prostitute. If you recall, it was Judas Iscariot who had a problem with Mary Magdalene for giving
precious ointment to anoint Jesus prior to his burial. And why was Judas upset? The gospel of John clearly states Judas was upset because HE was a thief. Anonymous is right. Let's examine our hearts and ask why we see people the way we do; and what we need to pray through before we blast others for our own sins.
Good post, Anonymous!
Don and Ange
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