There have been extensive discussions on another thread concerning this topic. The discussions began to inundate the thread so I decided to transfer the data here. Some folks believe that observing holiday's like Halloween and Christmas are quite pagan in nature, and others don't see a problem with it. I personally could care less one way or the other which is why I didn't chime in on the discussion. For once I'm a neutral party otherwise known as a "politician". I'm usually very opinionated but in this case I'm not. All posts pertaining to this topic have been transfered here from the other thread.Jeff
42 comments:
April,
I kust had three kids with an adult come to the door dressed up in their Halloween best!
Too bad they did not get anything from me.
Mr. Briggs would be proud!!
I told them "John 3:16" three times, the kids had no idea what I was saying, the adult got it and cursed at me under her breath and left empty handed, but hey - I tried to be a witness!!
Oh, and I will not be decorating the house with any Christmas stuff either! But, I never have! My kids are 7,6, and 4. They have never seen a Christmas tree in MY House.
OK I am a softie, they will get some presents that "Santa" left for them. Originally I told everybody that Santa does not exist, but my Mom did not like that statement!
Bro Johnson
October 30, 2010 5:47 PM
Uh Oh, Here comes 6 more kids!
Tonight is going to be a FUN night! My house is going to get EGGED!
John 3:16...John 3:16...John3:16!!
I never knew a 40 year old could have some much fun!!!
Bro Johnson
October 30, 2010 5:54 PM
In fact, I think I will decorate my House with Christmas decorations for Halloween!
That will really confuse the sinners! Ha Ha!!
Bro Johnson
October 30, 2010 6:15 PM
Johnson that will be a really effective way to win the lost.. good strategy.. much better then our way... shows more compassion, more love, more concern. Wow maybe I do have something to learn from you?
October 30, 2010 6:45 PM
Johnson that will be a really effective way to win the lost.. good strategy.. much better then our way... shows more compassion, more love, more concern. Wow maybe I do have something to learn from you?
Valid point. I think Pastor Briggs is right Brother Johnson. I don't think he is right very often but this time he is.
Anon
October 30, 2010 10:16 PM
'What?? No candy??" was a common theme last night as kids (some too big to be trick or treating) went right on buy my house last night with empty bags.
Mission Accomplished!!
In the Power of Him,
Bro Johnson
October 31, 2010 9:15 AM
Jphnson is stunted in his maturity. Something very common of people stuck in ntcc. They get in the cult. Stop any outside influence,read there Bible,pretend to pray.
His Mission is accomplished by not giving out candy to KIDS out trick a treating. Sorry sir,you are very messed up mentality! If that is all you can do with your life and time. You are wasting Such precious time that God gives us all.
So childish to think you one upping children. Yeah,your winning aren't you Johnson?LOL
Those kids are the winners. There ENJOYING LIFE! Your staying stunted in life. Thinking what you believe is Biblical. Hold onto tight to those false teachings. See where it gets you. And how many souls you touch with your method! I would predict your method will not help you out much at all!
April,
October 31, 2010 11:53 AM
April,
Did you ever realize that sometimes people say things to get a response out of other people?
My mission is accomplished! I now know more about you and your true intentions that I never would have otherwise.
Thank you for educating us all!
By the way, I took the extra time to look good today, and believe me, other women noticed! I bought a new shirt, tie, pants, got a haircut and I felt really good about it!!
It felt good being with my wife and looking good not only for her, but for myself.
April, you could use some self esteem yourself!!
All that pent up anger you have must be killing you softly.
Bro Johnson
October 31, 2010 8:50 PM
April,
My kids did not go out trick or treating this year. Nor have they ever!!
No Christmas tree will go up this year, nor has it ever!
Soon I will be off to war for a year, do I have any regrets? No, I only regretted going to NTCC, that is all.
But, had I not attended NTCC I would not have met my wife, so all things work together for the good to those who are called according to His purpose.
Face it: NTCC has changed along with the times. Do not get so bent out of shape over it. I for one am not loosing any sleep over it.
And I am on my way to heaven with a smile, verses you on your way to heaven with a frown.
Bro Johnson
October 31, 2010 8:56 PM
I am glad that you out of ntcc. And your serving our country. My hubby just did time in the Army and is a Marine vet. Stay safe!
I think your method or thinking is a little odd. As if your in a competition against little kids out trick a treating.
April
October 31, 2010 10:13 PM
Johnson,we know alot about you. From your posts as well. Boy do we ever!
Self esteem. I have no problem with my self esteem. I explain why alot of women wear make-up. I myself don't even wear it. I have some. As A Marine. Self esteem is not a problem. Taking pride in oneself. Not a problem. Should say the same for you. If you take your time to make up stuff to rile people up. Do you really have a life?
Johnson,this blog is Share your REAL story. So I am going to assume if your sharing things just to rile people up. That is NOT your REAL story. Thanks for coming on the blog and Lying to us all.
Good day,
April
October 31, 2010 10:19 PM
Anger eating away at me softly. Who is the one trying to one up on kids.
I have no anger against anyone. Well,maybe my MIL!
We are enjoying our free life outside of the cult. I no longer have to sit idly quiet while the MEN do the talking. I have my voice back. And MEN hate it when women share the tough stuff. They have NO COME BACK To. So they come on and try and demean me. Put me down. I poor little women. She is out of her box. Lets make fun of her. So she will hurry off and leave us MEN to our talking. Sorry fella's. I am not leaving. And my voice is not getting silenced by a man ever again! That is one thing I can PTL about!!!
April
October 31, 2010 10:29 PM
Johnson,
What kind of a childhood did you have? A normal one full of fun childhood activities, or one like you making your kids have? Your kids are not allowed to celebrate any holidays? Unless they are homeschooled and completely isolated from society, they talk to other children and realize what they are missing out on.
Sad.
November 01, 2010 7:22 PM
My mission is accomplished! I now know more about you and your true intentions that I never would have otherwise.
Johnson wrote this.
This struck a cord with me. Who does this sound like? I only have to talk to a person a few minutes. And I know if there saved or not saved! Rw davis was always saying you did not have to say much to him. And he knew all about you!
April
November 01, 2010 10:02 PM
Johnson,this blog is Share your REAL story. So I am going to assume if your sharing things just to rile people up. That is NOT your REAL story. Thanks for coming on the blog and Lying to us all.
Good day,
April
April, there you go again, sticking your foot in your mouth, really having no idea what you are talking about. Does that personify a true Marine? Siemper Fe? Really??!?
Why, may I ask if you love the Marines so much did you get out?
Did you get injured?
Why don't you go back and join since your so patriotic? There is nothing wrong in serving your country. Your going to serve somebody, man or women or object.
Well, you take care now, and ensure that the creases in your uniform or dress are squared away!!
By the way I have a great deal of respect for the Marines, God Bless the "TRUE" Marines!!
Siemper Fe!!
Bro Johnson
November 01, 2010 11:33 PM
Later today I'm planning on creating a Halloween or Holiday thread where I will transfer many of the comments posted here. I'm just feeling that the original intent of this thread was somewhat changed due to folks having a difference of opinion concerning Halloween. That's fine with me but I'd like to see that material found under a title that it pertains to.
Thanks you all for your understanding.
Jeff.
November 02, 2010 7:25 AM
Sorry about that Jeff. It being Halloween. It kept creeping into the conversation.
April
November 02, 2010 9:24 AM
April,
I say we call a truce and move on. We are like two little kids fighting in a Sandbox for the shovel.
Life is short, but I'm 6' 3"!!
Bro Johnson
November 02, 2010 12:36 PM
Truce Johnson. We will not agree on this,at all! and I am 5'8!
April
November 02, 2010 3:43 PM
Johnson,I am going to have to find out what your getting at. You have pride for REAL Marines. Are you trying to say I am not a REAL Marine. ANY Marine is a REAL Marine. And it is not Semper FE. It is Semper FI,always faithful to my Marines!
I do think you were the one that brought up the military Sir! Which is how it came into the conversation. I understand quite clearly. You are out of ntcc,but ntcc is not out of you. It is easy to see! You will get there one day. Where ntcc is out of you,mentally.
To address why I am not in the Marine Corp right now. I can put that on ntcc. I was injured while in. I may have worked at it to stay in. But females are almost always pressured to get out and be the good wife or sister. So I got out on a medical discharge. GENUINE medical discharge.Plus the Elite Marines stop at age 29 to get in the Marines. So even if I wanted to,I am past that age! My goals was to stay in and retire and serve and fight for my country!
There is your ntcc thinking coming out. ntcc jargon,I am going to serve someone. Guess what,I do not SERVE anyone. I take care of my family,I obey the laws of the land. I do not serve my husband,or my government. So I do not Serve anyone!
I usually NAIL it when itcomes to sensing what folks are about and ntcc junk!
I did not attack or be rude to you about being in the Army. So if you think your going to attack and be rude to me about being in the Marines,. You got another thing coming! Back off buddy!
SEMPER FI! Get it right and spell it right if your going to use it!
April
Once a Marine Always a Marine!
November 02, 2010 5:26 PM
By the way, I do not observe Halloween, Mr. Briggs. I consider it undue attention given to the devil. I will not give the devil his due.
As far as I am concerned, if you observe Halloween, your going to hell! Give no place to the devil.
I am TOO MUCH indoctrinated in NTCC policies as Rev Davis received them from God Himself as they were before you were reached for Christ.
Bro Johnson
October 28, 2010 11:42 PM
RB said...
Hey Johnson, I just had an epiphany.... when the little kids come to your house dressed in their devilish garments why not throw rocks at them and say "Away with you thou foul and loathsome creature.." or better yet "The Lord rebuke you" then you could quote the John 3:16 because when they are older they will definitely remember how loving and caring christians are and want to become one!
(As for me I just leave my porch light off and don't answer the door if I am home that is)
October 30, 2010 7:03 PM
Why not just do what Pastor Briggs does and substitute Halloween for a "Fall Festival?"
Pastor Briggs allows people to come to his Fall Festival dressed up in costumes complete with face painting & pumkins.
Pastor Briggs Fall Festival's are really fun!!! Can't we just "lighten up" & have a good time? A Fall Festival is NOT a celebration of demons!!!
Pastor Briggs makes a real good Abraham Lincoln!!! A lot of churches substitute Halloween for Fall Festival and it's a blessing and it's FUN fellowship!!!
April,
Thank you for your service!
Hopefully your feeling better.
By the way I bought three Christmas stockings for the kids and nailed them up. The kids were pretty excited!
I also bought a little Precious Memories Nativity Scene clay model that was neat to look at until my oldest son broke the staff Joseph was holding, Man! Only two minutes at the house and it is already broke! Nothing a little superglue cannot fix Ha Ha
So I want you to know that I did take to heart what you stated and I realized this time next year I am not here (stateside).
Sometimes it takes a woman to knock some sense into a man :)
Bro Johnson
Bro Johnson,
If your truely being sincere with me. I am suprised that I touched your heart in such a way. To help your children. Have a innocent childhood.
I know for us. We let God and God only guide what we let our kids do. One lady once told me,to help your decisions. Is it a sin? My kids going trick a treating or a Fall harvest is not a sin. I would take them to either of those activities. For them to get out and have fun,making the memories is really big for me and my husband.
I do Ok with my military disablity,it is my feet. and moved to my back. Not crippling. Pain managment is life. I am happy that I served. Would have liked to serve alot longer then I did.
I am thrilled that your making baby steps. That is what you should do. Changes should be small and in your time. and Any help that I was to you. I am thrilled!!
April
Anon,
five years ago. Ntcc did NOT allow a fall festival or trick a treating. Neither of them were allowed. Lumped into the same catagory. Was really no fun or family recreation. Besides getting permission from Mike K. to have people over to your OWN home to eat and visit. Even playing board games were frowned upon for adults to play while they fellowshipped.
Not that it stopped some of us.
This new ntcc is a ntcc that lets indivudal pray it through. And let God guide there churches. I guess. I am not totally sure on that. I know liberty has been given before and then yanked back. Give it and then taketh it away. Who knows if these changes that have occured will stay for long. Mike K. may realize numbers are not increasing going mainstream. So lets go back in time and be the way it used to be. Who knows!
Go trick a treating,where alot of kids dress up as super heros,strawberry shortcake,pirates. then attend a Fall harvest at a local church where they TRUNK a TREAT! It has a religious twist to it. Been to schools where they do a fall theme,it has no religious twist to it. There is not that much of a difference. It is all in your head. You think Oh my this is so horrible,sinister. Let me take my kids to such and such. that is less evil.
I went trick a treating. NEVER thought it was evil. Became a adult and still never saw it as evil.
Is it a sin?
April
April said...
I am thrilled that your making baby steps.
Jeff said...
I don't think I'd have written that. That sounds like the man is being patronized. It almost sounds like you're suggesting that the guy needs therapy and I don't see that as the case. He has his views and so do others but "baby steps"? We're talking about a grown man here. I don't guess I'd have taken his approach with Halloween and all but that doesn't mean he should observe Halloween either. The fact is, dressing up like a demon is hardly Christian from a Bible standpoint. In fact it's anything but. I know that everyone doesn't up like a demon, witch, warlock, vampire, devil, someone who is dead and so on but a good percentage do and Biblically such types of people are seriously frowned upon by God. That fact is made pretty clear in the Old and New Testaments. My wife and I went to a church with our son and even though some folks treated it like a "fall / harvest festival" others treated it like it was a holiday for the devil i.e. Halloween.
I kind of like the idea of the Harvest festival and Thanksgiving. Santa Clause is anything but biblical also. Bro Johnson has some valid points but maybe his approach could be different. All I know is that "baby steps" comes across to me like the guy just came out of a psycho ward. That isn't the case. Like I said, his approach could certainly be different with the old quoting John 3:16 at the door business, but that doesn't mean that his feelings about Halloween and Christmas are wrong either. Christmas has turned into no more than a big commercialized event that hardly is focused on what Christ truly came for, and Halloween is in fact dominated by the recognition of devils, witches, warlocks and demons and witchcraft. I'm just telling it like it is.
Now I could personally care less how folks practice either holiday because cramming religion down peoples throats doesn't work. There are 100s of people in the NTCC who've done a whole lot more damage to their fellow man or their neighbor than a kid running around dressed up like a devil. The NTCC is a whole lot more crooked, deceitful, and greedy than someone with a Christmas tree by far. I'll take the little dude dressed up like Dracula or the little girl waiting on Santa Clause and the parents who promote it any day over some judgmental religious Pharisee like 95% of the the NTCCers who I've known.
Having said all that, I don't think SFC Johnson needs baby steps but rather a different approach to how he deals with Halloween. Pastor Briggs suggestion about turning off the porch light and simply not answering the door is probably the way to go.
Just my two cents which often ain't worth much.
Jeff
OMG! Jeff. I was not trying to feminize him. Talkming about baby steps in CHANGE!! AS a person that comes out of ntcc. Trying to get rid of the false teachings is tough. For some have tried to change EVERYTHING all at once. And it has not gone well for some.
Myself as an example. As we left the Ministry in ntcc. I took everything one thing at a time. I prayed about it. Consulted God. My husband left it all up to me and God.
Should I have said small steps to make you feel better. Instead of baby steps. You would not know what flylady is on the net. She teaches folks to take life in baby steps. So we can work up to Flying!
What I wonder about. Why did you focus on two words?
As I read Johnsons post. He was taking SMALL steps of change for him and his family. It was encouraging!! We leave ntcc with the false teaching still in our heads. We can leave ntcc physically. But mentally it is going to stay there. Until we pray for there teachings to be wiped from our brain. Let God teach you his word!
Oh and as we are out on the streets with other trick a treators. It is NOT dominated with witchcraft and evil. Just saying it like it is!
Any holiday out there has commercialism in it. From Easter,to Mother's day,to Christmas,Halloween. It is how each person celebrates it.
April
Does Jeff always sound so angry?
The Johnson Family also has their own Holiday.
1 May whatever year. I instituted it this year. I don't care if the kids are in class, I am pulling them out for 1 day of family activity outside of the state (like the beach or whatever).
Having three kids, they all need a little individual TLC. I also have "Father / Son time" and "Father / Daughter time" for one Friday night a month.
Tonight I am by myself, I for one am getting some shut eye~
Bro Johnson
That is awesome Family holiday! Time spent with family is what is important in life.
April
Anonymous said...
Does Jeff always sound so angry?
Jeff said...
I hope I don't but guess I do. I don't want to sound angry? When I post let me know if I sound angry. I will try to correct it but please understand it's not easy if I don't realize I'm doing it. Sounding angry that is. Whoever you are, thanks for the critique. I will work on it.
Sincerely,
Jeff
Coming soon! Information about New Testament Christian Churches of America, Inc.
Thank you for your patience.
The funny thing is, we are out of patience, Mr. Kekel. We already KNOW!!!
Bro Johnson
April said...
It is NOT dominated with witchcraft and evil.
Jeff said...
That is not exactly what I said April. By the way, how was your day April? I hope you had a good day. Mine had it's ups and downs but it usually does. I take the good with the bad.
What I said was that Halloween is dominated by the "recognition" of devils, witches, warlocks and demons and witchcraft. I used the word "recognition" intentionally to show that during Halloween, these characters are being recognized which they are or certain people wouldn't dress up like them. Even though it could be implied, I didn't use the word "evil". Just because someone dresses up like a witch doesn't mean they practice witchcraft or even know how. When you go around and look at Halloween decorations I'd say 95% of the time or more you see, skeletons, witches, vampires, tombstones, black cats looking all scary, witches on brooms and so on. Around half the kids and adults (I would say dress up to look like one of these characters). I know they dress up as other characters but many dress up like I described. They really do. I'm not just making this up because I've seen it. Dracula's by the dozens. Dudes with sinister looking masks on by the dozens. It really is true.
Deu 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
18:12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD
Now the reason that I just posted the scriptures is to make it obvious that God doesn't seem too interested in entertaining witches, wizards and so on. I could be wrong (and I mean that) but I don't suspect that God would be too interested in having our kids dress up like a witches either. Does that mean that the child is a witch or wizard? Of course not but still, if God called them an abomination it would seem that they are characters that he is kind of opposed to.
I've never said Halloween is "all" bad. All I'm saying is that someone who is really trying to explicitly follow the Bible may not be too interested in participating in Halloween and frankly I could understand why. Personally I could care less how folks live as long as it doesn't "directly" effect others.
If someone is fine with allowing their kids to go trick or treating I could care less as long a they don't do something like try and egg my car or do damage to my property. Like I've stated before. The NTCC leadership has do far more damage to the lives of people than a bunch of trick or treaters who dress up like a pirate, or a baseball player, or a fireman or a "WITCH".
We don't want folks to try an cram religion down peoples throat, right? Well I'm not going to try and convince someone that they "need" to be a part of Halloween either. I will worry about how I handle my family and they can worry about how they handle theirs. It's a lot different if child abuse comes into play but it's not child abuse if a kid can't be involved with Halloween. Me and my family went to a church on Halloween day and evening and they had a nice Harvest / Fall Festival. Some kids showed up like ghouls but big deal. That is between them and their parents and if they are wrong it is between them and God. I'm not trying to cram God down anyones throat. See how many folks you win to Jesus with that approach. I'm also not trying to cram Halloween down anyone's throat either because once again I could care if they participate in Halloween or not.
Jeff
Had a great day,Jeff. besides almost causing a house fire. turned on the wrong burner,napkins caught on fire. Besides that,all is hunky dorey!
Both sides can be presented. One thing that was HUGELY lacking in ntcc. There was there side. And No dicussion what so ever!
April
Just to rehash just a bit. If you look,I had no problem with not answering the door,trick a treating or a Fall festival.
It was the thinking that I am getting one up on someone if I don't pass out candy. Which I think that message got through to Mr. Johnson.
For me,however you choose. To spend time with family is awesome. Because ntcc likes to frown on doing things with your family. OR before they became the mainstream ntcc!
So these days so many of us can choose to have the time we want with our families. Not squeeze it inbetween door knocking,or upteen church services.
Just to have time to do a project with my children and not have FALSE CONVICTION is good!
You will notice I am not going to quote scripture. Something I am working through with Baby steps! Had scripture always quoted. So much you just tune it out.
April
April said...
Had scripture always quoted. So much you just tune it out.
Jeff said...
I know what you mean April. Especially when they were frequently guilty of taking scriptures totally out of context. Sometimes the NTCC leadership just flat out intentionally misrepresented scriptures to suit their own agenda.
Take it easy April and watch out for the napkins on the stove.
Jeff
April Said,
"So these days so many of us can choose to have the time we want with our families."
Don and Ange said,
I think it's normal in a lot of instances when one leaves the ntcc to test the waters. All of the sudden you don't have someone telling you do this and do that. Now you are able to look at a situation and say, "What is wrong with it"? Hypothetical: If I let my child dress up like peter pan or superman or whatever, and spend time with their friends like a normal kid, knocking on doors and getting candy, is this a sin? After being in an organization where every time you blink, you are being blasted from behind the pulpit, I think it's healthy to want to do the opposite of what ntcc preaches at times.
I personally understand where you are coming from April as well as where others are coming from. Many of the ntcc teachings have been engraved into our minds for so many years that it's difficult to forget or change. Also, many people still have their own convictions about the holiday which is very understandable also.
I shut my light off on Halloween because I choose not to participate, and I understand why people say it's the devil's day. I also think that those people that celebrate it for the fun of it without allowing someone to dictate to them that it is a sin are just as much of a Christian as anyone else. There are so many things we can do that are worse than trick-or-treating, like saying harmful things to others, or being hypocrites and living a standard other than that which we expect of others.
Your story about the napkins catching on fire reminds me of when I was a young kid and my mother told me I couldn't cook in the house when she was at work. Being about 9 or 10 and hungry, I decided to fix me a box of Kraft Macaroni and cheese. After adding the macaroni to the boiling water and stirring it for a while it started to boil over. I used a towel to remove the pot from the burner and the the towel caught on fire. I threw the burning towel outside after it had burned my arm. I told my mom that I had burnt myself on hot water and when we got to the doctor, he thought it was child abuse. We almost got split up as a family over this until my mom explained to me that they were going to take us away from her if we didn't fess up to what really happened. I finally told the doctor what had happened and I guess he believed my because we got to stay together.
Be yourself and above all, love your neighbor as yourself and I believe everything else will fall into place.
Don and Ange
Correct Jeff. It was bashed to read your Bible,go to Church,and make sure we prayed. I always thought those things were a No brainer. And why did they continual harp on those things. I loved going to church as a child. When I started reading the Bible in Oceanside. Got excited that it was making sense!lol Then you get to Bible school. And given Bible scriptures to read. And if you did not read them,you would lose your entire semester! You begin to read them just to get it read. Loses that excitment,joy of reading my Bible. Then you got prayer meetings. Which was just a time to puff yourself up. Stand up,hands up in the air,screaming,pretending to be speaking in tongues. Making NO SENSE AT ALL!
So you have False teachings to get out of your brain. BUT also work at enjoying these simple things like going to Church,reading my Bible and praying all over again. For me,it was instant joy when we stepped down from the ministry.
Even just raising my hand in worship is hard to do. Without flashbacks! walk in to ntcc service. Bam,all hands go up wether you want to or not!
you think that leaving ntcc is the hardest thing to do. But it isn't. Praying to wipe my head clear of there false teachings.Not being mad at God that I let myself get stuck in a cult. Which is what I meant with that famous Baby steps. You can't do this all at once. Or it is like starting out a race full force. You get cramps,fatigued and you fall back. And have to get your breath back,energy and keep going.
Oh and a afternote. If I come across as intense or mad. I am NOT mad. I am blunt,to the point kind of person. I didn't talk much in ntcc. So folks did not know that about me!LOL
April
I remember it being Halloween in Hawaii at the Christian Servicemens Home in Hawaii and kids coming to the door saying "Trick or Treat" and Mom Gaylord having something either she had fixed, or bought for the kids with a Scripture story or something pertaining to Christ in some way. She was able to witness to them via tract/pamphlet and they got some kind of a treat, as mentioned above.
"Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are Gods", I always say.
Not a bad approach I'd say.
Jeff
Handing out a flyer with a piece of candy.
Having resserection eggs during Easter time. Still celebrating the holiday. Just saying.
If it makes you feel better.
Having a egg hunt is not a sin.
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