I'm just reposting stuff that was written a while back. To all you single Brothers: If you'd ever get a backbone the picture to the left could be you a whole lot sooner than you think. Yeah!!!
Kris wrote...
The NTCC has a way of keeping a lot of single men single for many years until they reach their 30's or more.
Jeff said...
Ain't that the truth. Some of those single ministers completely give up on having a woman after a while. Pastor Bentley is a prime example. That dude probably hasn't had a woman for close to 15 years I would guess. The NTCC is a cult which can be evidenced by it's leadership not wanting their people to marry someone who is not part of the New Testament Christian Church. Well guess what that does to the men? They often find it quite hard to get a woman and often even harder to get a good looking woman. I've personally witnessed occasions where a desperate NTCC man took an extremely homely women to be his wife. Hey, I'm calling it like I see it. I didn't name names. I'm certainly not the best looking man so if you aren't the best looking woman, you are who you are and it is what it is.
Then you have the New Testament Christian Church leadership placing all kinds of dating restrictions on their personnel. Mike and Tanya certainly didn't have that many restrictions placed on them when Tanya was only 15 and 16 years old and Mike was feeling her up. You're an idiot if you let the NTCC leadership influence who you date. You're being treated like a child if you stand against the wall or ask permission just to speak with a woman. Why in the world would you allow some NTCC creep to dictate when you can or can't talk to a woman? That is ridiculous. So you are a single guy and they will only let you talk to NTCC women or "girls" yeah that's right "girls" and then you have to ask permission to talk to them? When you are in conference, which may be the only time you even get a chance to meet a single woman or in the NTCC's case a single "girl", you can't even talk to them there. What gives?
Here is what you need to do single guys. Boycott that mess. Go to conference and walk up to some fine Sister, (if there are any) and plainly ask, "Could I get your phone number and give you a call sometime." If she gives you her number then immediately ask, "Hey, before conference is over, maybe we can go out and get something to eat". Don't ask permission because that is childish. Don't let the bully control mongers treat you like a child. Take the girl out, call her up, hang out with her as much as possible and then if you guys like each other, TELL THE NTCC LEADERSHIP YOU WILL BE GETTING MARRIED. DON'T ASK.
The reason some of you guys don't have a woman is because you lack self confidence. Don't walk up to a lady all stuttering because you are all worried about old lying RWD or Kekel the control monger. Tell the woman she looks nice and you'd like to take her out to dinner. If you can't do that, it's alright. Go half your life without a woman if you want to, I'm not the one. My wife and I got married and I didn't ask some dummy for permission and we have a little boy together and I didn't ask permission to do that either. We made it happen if you know what I'm talking about. Botta, boom, batta, bing. Yeah. Get some back bone and stop allowing some NTCC control freak to keep you frustrated for decades. If you can't find a woman in the NTCC find one outside the NTCC. Visit other churches. Did I say that? You better believe it. There are more fish in the sea then you'll ever find in the NTCC. Then bring your fine wife back and show all those other brainwashed, frustrated brothers how good she looks. Yeah!!!!! Maybe then they'll stop asking permission to talk to someone of the opposite sex.
Jeff
99 comments:
Jeff said,
"We made it happen if you know what I'm talking about. Botta, boom, batta, bing. Yeah."
Don and Ange said,
Get a room Jeff!
I talked to a brother on the phone that said he left the ntcc because he knew he would never be able to get married if he stayed in. He left the ntcc, got back in control of his mind and now has a wife and child and they are attending a normal church.
Another minister I talked to left a few years after bs and is now married and ministering in another church.
If you want to find evidence of someone being in a cult, all you have to do is look at their dating policies. If you have to ask a preacher to talk to a woman, you are in a cult, plain and simple. If people would wake up and look at this for what it is, they would find that there is absolutely no biblical grounds for this doctrine and it would fall into the "adding to" category mentioned at the end of the "Book" that says "if any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: Rev 22:18.
Don and Ange
I would also like to add that I have a pretty good idea that many of the guys that DID get married, did NOT follow ALL the rules that Davis lays out for courting. They MADE IT HAPPEN! If I remember right, if Davis gave you permission to call her, that meant ONE call. Who can get to know a girl when you have to hope that Davis is in town that week so you can have permission to continue your relationship with a girl that probably does not amount to a hill of beans because you can hardly get to know her. That's why I think a lot of men just did what they wanted to do and called her as many times as they wanted.
If another sorry single brother sees a single man doing something he doesn't have permission to do or is against the rules in order to secure a fine looking female for a future wife, the sorry still single brother will probably in his jealousy remind that brother of the rules, like "There's no courting at the camp, brother."
I was only in ONE fellowship at Graham where Kekel took the leashes off the ministers and said they could say hello to some of the single ladies. Too bad... I don't think any of us wanted to talk to the ones that were there.
See, when I went to help at a serviceman's work, I realized then that the men soul-win men and the women soul-win MEN. Both are encouraged to go get some single G.I.s. NO SYMPATHY FOR THE SINGLE G.I.s that probably don't want to remain single G.I.s. Just get a bunch of single G.I.s into the church with a bunch of single G.I.s we have already reached. Then when they go to B.S. there will be a bunch of single G.I.s and a small handful of women around your age. Don't bother asking to talk to them (unless you are on the building crew or a former member of Rev. Kekel's church, because if she doesn't get swallowed up by one of them, there is probably a good chance that there is a 40 year old divorced or single preacher out on the field already talking to her (if she is pretty).
You may wonder why she is never talking to any brothers? Probably because he is out on the field somewhere. He is a possible candidate to run a church as a pastor already, but he just needs a wife.
So just crack the books during Bible School. From my experience and seeing other single ministers in the same boat as me, you probably won't get married unless you were talking to someone from your church before you got there.
THEN... It gets even better, sorry single b.s. students! (Hey, I was a sorry single b.s. student, too.) It's not meant to be a put-down, more a description of how you feel inside because you are getting older and still don't even have a FRIEND that is a girl, let alone a GIRL-friend.
Anyways... After you graduate, you are probably thinking, I will hurry up and go out to a work where I will be the studly handsome dashing young preacher and ALL the single sisters will line up to talk to ME from that point on, because you were told it's really like that when you go out to a work.
First of all, good luck finding a woman there who wants to be a minister's wife under the strict guidelines you have to follow. Second of all, you're lucky if you can just graduate and go STRAIGHT out to a work the way Davis runs things. Many single graduates sit the bench in Graham for years before being released to go to a work.
So, let's do the math, shall we? Let's say you graduaated h.s. at 17, joined the military a year later, you got out when you were 21, and went straight to b.s (assuming you did only one tour). Then you go through b.s. in maybe 3 years, and at the ripe age of 24 you are ready to go to a work. Most likely you are still single at this point, and don't even have a FRIEND that is a girl. You haven't talked to a girl one-on-one since you were 17. The next time you talk to a girl, you make a fool of yourself because you haven't even yet learned what to say to a woman that is 24 years old. The last time you talked to a girl you were a silly teenager.
Then, you beg Davis to let you go to a work. You think he doesn't know you want to get married, buddy? He sees how old you are and he knows what you want as a man, which most men in their mid-twenties want. I figure you will probably sit in Graham for 2-4 years before you get released. Have you noticed how many ministers are in Graham?
So you don't have any notes to type so you can ask as many women as you want to the wall, right? Well, you will probably have a lot of choices of women that are about 10 to 15 years older than you and up. The cute young single ones? probably taken.
So, then when you're maybe 27, you finally go out to a work. I will just end here by saying, if by luck you find someone at that small church that you like, and you get married within 2 years, you are pushing 30 before you even start your new life as a married man. And what if the pastor is the type to run off women? My suggestion if you want to stay in, don't go to a serviceman's work to be a helper, if you want to get married. The idea in serviceman's works seems to be to keep the single ladies from defiling the men unless they just comply with all the rules and get saved right away. They don't seem to get much mercy when the priority is the single guys who can pay for the serviceman's home with their home offerings.
Right on, Kristopher, you nailed it exactly. When I was in BS in St. Louis, they didn't yet have The Wall, but they did have strict regulation--all the no talking crap, and no unchaperoned contact (unless you were Mike and Tanya or the other secretly favored couple who got to double date with them, away from the prying ministerial hairy eyeball the rest of us endured--maybe even make out a bit).
Instead of The Wall, if RW was in town (and he traveled a lot) he would chaperone us all to a Perkins or Denny's or some such eatery, where we did get to sit at separate tables, but always in direct view of the "apostle" and his cronies.
I followed the trajectory you outline until I was almost out of BS, when I was matched up with my wife (although I went along quite willingly at that point; I was 25 and in the condition you describe, plus I didn't have to settle for a defective mate like many have). Fortunately, it has worked out and we're still married, but that's a miracle in view of the fact that we spent virtually no time together (because of the idiotic rules and monopolization of our time). I would estimate that we had less than 40 hours of total conversation before we were married 28 years ago in September. I never violated any of the bogus rules, and the only touching we ever did was a handshake. In fact, I was only alone with her one single time before we got married, when we were given PERMISSION to go get the marriage license, and we didn't do what I criticized Mike for. Not even a peck on the cheek.
Back then it was almost all servicmen's work, so there were just a bunch of horny dudes pent up in the dorm with almost no prospects at all (well, at least RW condoned masturbation). I had to wait three years, and I was lucky; there were plenty who entered the extended bachelorhood Kris discusses, because at any given time, there might be 35-40 guys to maybe 6-8 marriageable women, if that. There were 14 of us in my graduating class, and I think Tanya graduated with us and maybe no other females--none that I remember, anyhow.
At one point, a brother and I had the good fortune to both have Wednesday nights free, so we decided to go around to different churches fishing for wives. We went to some pentecostal storefront that was packed with sweet young things. When we mentioned who our pastor was, the lady preacher visibly started. It made me wonder what that was all about; I understand he has quite a reputation in St. Louis, and not necessarily positive. We were really encouraged by the pulchritudinous babes, though, and the preacher wanted us to come and even preach for them. But then, back at the HQ, we got in a prayer meeting and started feeling guilty, so we bailed on the plan and never visited another church.
I ended up with a keeper and we're happy, so something good came out of the whole mess. However, I strongly recommend against marriage under those circumstances, ever. Plenty of them have melted down post-NTCC too, but it's hard to even fault people when they were basically manipulated into a relationship that never should have happened and never would have happened absent the meddling intervention of NTCC busybodies. It worked out for me in the end, but your mileage may vary.
Vic said...
so there were just a bunch of horny dudes pent up in the dorm with almost no prospects at all
Kris said...
That's another point I was considering bringing up, too, Vic. It was so sorry. A bunch of single 'ministers' with pent up frustration and even at times depression because we had, as you said, almost no prospects. It's really spiritual when you haven't been aloud to release some of that frustration at that point of your life (late 20s), and you are supposed to "have your mind on God." Paul said if they can not contain, let them marry. This verse seems to have little relevance to NTCC leadership.
Jesus even said that not all men could receive the teaching about some men being eunuchs for the Lord's sake.
I also got a good wife, Vic, RIGHT AFTER I got out of NTCC. I stayed single under Davis' monarchy for 13 years. I got married after leaving NTCC within a year. I have to admit one year is not very long to wait, but I was 34 years old and still living a life of celibacy. That's not easy if you had sex before you got saved.
Thanks to NTCC, I was robbed of that time to date and mingle and meet a variety of different women until I found the right match for me like should occur in normal Christian churches that have an understanding of values and how that you will be making vows with the woman you choose that should last a lifetime.
Like you, Vic, I still ended up with a great wife, but it could have been bad. I might have chosen a devil in my haste to get married before I was over the hill and no longer appealing to women.
I thank God that as soon as I got out of NTCC, He aloud me to marry a good Christian woman, but I agree with you, Vic. NTCC is not recommended for someone who wants to be a family-oriented man.
RW flat out told us that he didn't care if we ever got married, and did his best to inspire us with guilt for even having such a natural desire. He was downright cruel about it too, screaming at us and dogging us out for being carnally minded--right before he went home to bang his second wife. A real man of God, ol' RDub. And then in his psychology class, he would regale us with sexual tales from his counseling experience. Yup, if you went to him with marital, even sexual, problems, you likely functioned as a hilarious and crude illustration in one of the stand up comedy routines he passed off as the impartation of spiritual wisdom. But it didn't help us single guys much to hear all about sex and more sex when we had to go back to the dorm and try to exert mind over matter.
Young preacher dork in the wingtips and white shirt, as you are, I once was (uh-except for the wingtips; never worn a pair). My seasoned advice to you is: avoid the path I took. Liberate yourself from the bondage that is NTCC. My children lost their childhoods to NTCC, but I lost my young adulthood. It's way too short to put up with the crap you're going through. I'm sincerely appealing to you from genuine concern, because I'm aware of the steep toll that lifestyle inflicts. Trust those of us who know: you will be much happier and better off in every way the minute you depart from the exploiters. Test it and see! How many people do you see go back after they leave? Almost none. They're not reprobates, as has been falsely reported; they just know what's right and there is no comparison once you get out from what April refers to as "The Fog."
how many of the women students "had" to get married? NONE!! How many accidents? We did not mean to....NONE!
Case dismissed!!
Anonymous said...
"how many of the women students "had" to get married? NONE!! How many accidents? We did not mean to....NONE!
Case dismissed!!"
I doubt that very much! How many people waited so long to finally have a Christian wife that they finally couldn't contain any longer? You expect me to believe that no ministers ever did anything wrong? How many did do something wrong and never reported it for fear of losing their license?
Your reasoning is flawed, because you kept plenty of people in a battle for decades, and all they wanted was a good Christian wife that was not 10 years older than them.
Case not closed!
Besides Anonymous, the subject is not how many WOMEN didn't have a husband. They had their pick. Of course the women were not stressed enough to spread their legs to a b.s. student. It's more like the men were tempted to leave NTCC to find a woman, or ended up doing something they regretted because there were hardly any women to choose from.
You asked how many women HAD to get married. Puh-leez. They could pick any guy they wanted practically and be married in no time. And most of them did get picked off in relatively little time. Most were married before they finished b.s. if I remember right, whether they were good looking or not. It's the men that were unnecessarily tempted into sin, not the women, buddy!
"We made it happen if you know what I'm talking about. Botta, boom, batta, bing."
hahahaha! that was a good one!
name one.... one woman student that HAD to get married..... you can not.... for there are NONE!!
CAse still closed!!
Marriage is hard work...some days you have to work at it harder than others, but every person should have the chance to experience the union between husband and wife. It's a wonderful journey and you get to share life's ups and downs with your other half.
NTCC men (or even single ladies who may be reading), don't miss the opportunity of marriedhood. =) You don't want to regret it later on down the road and be asking yourself 'what if'.
I do understand Yahweh calls some people to celibacy though and for those few there is nothing wrong with that.
But if a man tells you to hold off on marriage to 'serve God', please question that motive.
You can delightfully serve Yahweh to the fullest with your other half.
If we (the church) will be married to the King when He returns, then why not experiences a small piece of that while down here on this earth with the love of your life?
Anonymous said...
Case still closed.
Jeff said...
The case ain't closed. If you are in the NTCC you are a part of a cult and that is evidenced by the NTCC's stupid dating rules. Ashmore's son ran off with another ministers wife. Your system ain't perfect. So it was alright for Mike to grope Tanya just as long as she didn't get pregnant? Not only that your argument stinks because it's not like the NTCC would have broadcasted a pregnancy and the fact is they probably would have never found out. I suppose some sister is going to run to old RWD and say, "I'm pregnant". Your argument stinks and my points are still valid.
What about the young lady that RWD was having sex with when her husband went to work? The young lady brought it to Olson's attention and Olson told her to find another church. You can find the post on Don and Anges blog. I know the lady's name but for her sake I won't post it. Your organization ain't perfect where the whole sex outside of marriage thing is concerned.
Not only that, the NTCC divorce rate is substantial and when an NTCC woman gets divorced, she gets married to another NTCC dude who no doubt knew her husband personally. The whole NTCC dating and marriage system has "CULT" written all over it.
Jeff
Dawn said...
But if a man tells you to hold off on marriage to 'serve God', please question that motive.
Jeff said...
Amen to that. If a man tells you not to date outside your church, you need to question that motive also. That is how cults operate. If the NTCC's systems was so perfect, you wouldn't see so many people not only leaving but getting divorced. The NTCCs dating system is flawed to the hilt.
Jeff
Kristofer,
I am sorry to hear they robbed you of the gift of marriage early on. :(
You bring a very realistic view to this thread and I hope any bible school student who is reading blog will come to see that this may be them in a few years.
Or they may end up as Vic did in the beginning, never really got a chance to talk to or learn about his future wife beforehand because of the leadership.
It's not normal or healthy.
I am glad you found a partner in crime to share life's journey with you Kristofer. =)
Take care.
Kris Said:
"It's not meant to be a put-down, more a description of how you feel inside because you are getting older and still don't even have a FRIEND that is a girl, let alone a GIRL-friend."
Don and Ange said:
In the ntcc, there is no such thing as a girl friend. I have never known any man in the ntcc that had a girlfriend unless they were new and had a girlfriend prior to attending church. The ntcc puts single men in a very frustrating situation.
I will tell you this much. After having three pastors that had had good wives but chose unnatural affection, I was at a point in my life where I wanted a wife really bad. I was at the peak of my Christian life and had done my time and more as a single man. There wasn't anything in this world I wanted more than a wife. I wanted to love and provide for a woman. I did everything a person could possibly do to get a wife. I prayed and prayed. I studied and gave myself completely to the "work of God". I brought carloads of people to church and gave a large percentage of my money to an organization that promises you, that if you serve God, you will be blessed.
In my frustration, I was tempted by the adulteress wife of the pastor at the Servicemen's home in Colorado Springs. I was not cut out for celibacy. While I did allow things to go farther than I should have, I couldn't do the dirty deed because I couldn't understand how people that are married and have the one precious thing that I wanted so bad and could never get, could cheat on each other so easily. Let me tell you, when you are twenty five and have been living in celibacy for 7 years, it's extremely hard to refuse a woman your age when she knocks on the door of your bedroom and asks if she can lay down in your bed with you. The only reason that I didn't was because I really thought that if I kept myself from that Sin, God would have something better for me.
And He did. I met my wife a few weeks later. I invited her to church and we quickly became attracted to each other and were talking about marriage within a couple of months. To bad the Tieman's had other plans for our lives or we would have been married 21 years ago.
What I went through was worse than if somebody were to have stabbed me with a knife in the back. Am I bitter because I wasted the last 20 years of my life? Would you be? I stayed with the ntcc for 6 more years and never had the opportunity to get married and then when I realized that I was a sinner sitting in a church pew, listening to a dead preacher, preaching dead sermons to a bunch of dead cult members, I bailed. I went headlong into sin in search of the one thing that I was not allowed to have in the ntcc. Not a wife or love or anything of that nature. The great rwd summed it up very well, by saying we get married for sex and companionship.
When I left the ntcc and God, all I wanted was sex. I gave myself over to the desires of my heart. I won't go into the sickening details of what I went through for the next 14 years of my life but I will say this. The ntcc is a wicked and evil organization that manipulates people for money and controls their lives, bank accounts and relationships. The ntcc is a cult of the worst kind and they will not repent or even admit any wrong doing. They will continue to destroy lives because that is what they do. My story is one of many and there are folks that have suffered because of the ntcc's ungodly policies. People can only take so much.
Don and Ange
We have a lot of righteous indignation in our hearts that we direct towards the ntcc. The ntcc is one of many cults but they are the cult that ruined a large portion of our life so we blog against them. If we can influence readers to leave this cult, we will do that with no remorse. If we can save one person from having to endure the personal hell that we experienced in this organization we will do it with gladness of heart and thank God for everyone that escapes their controlling grasp.
We might not be examples of the happy go lucky Christians that Xers are expected to be but we are healing inside and we hope that others can experience a life of normalcy. We hear from the other side all the time. They think they still control us and they try to correct us and we will have none of it. We know too much and our eyes have been opened.
Don and Ange
I've given further thought to this subject. The NTCC leadership has suggested for years that their system is the model for Christian organizations. If that was the case and if they've perfect this whole dating scheme, why are there so many divorces? The NTCC's system us no better than any other system, in fact it's worse. At least people from other organizations don't have to wait forever to find a wife only in many cases to wind up divorced anyway.
You have no idea who you are dealing with in the NTCC because they don't even want you to talk to each other without some stupid permission. So being that the NTCC dating systems doesn't guarantee lasting marriages, what is the point to all these stupid childish rules?
You can't mandate righteousness. If people are going to screw around with each other like Mike and Tanya did, you can't totally prevent that. Not only that, you preventing someone from screwing around doesn't mean they get to heaven. The blood of Jesus does. Why in the world did Jesus come anyway if salvation is no more than a bunch of stupid man made NTCC rules?
You can't "Rule" someone into heaven and the NTCC's dating system is controlling, childish and I'll guarantee you'd never see Davis or Kekel following those rules and Grant Kekel won't be either.
Jeff
"how many of the women students "had" to get married?"
And you know this...how? It seemed like no matter how strict RW made things in NTCC, the level of sexual and other scandal didn't seem to differ much than anyplace else.
Anom makes point.... name a female "student" that had to get married because she was going to have a baby.....
What does that prove?
Anonymous said:
"how many of the women students "had" to get married? NONE!! How many accidents? We did not mean to....NONE!
Case dismissed!!"
Don and Ange said:
The ntcc has a divorce rate that would make Hollywood look like a bastion of righteousness and impeccable family values.
it proves.... case closed
"it proves.... case closed"
It proves that people keep those secrets they don't want exposed. How gullible are you? Well, if you're in NTCC, I guess we know.
Think on this: even if there have been zero shotgun weddings, that still doesn't prove there would be any absent Taliban rule.
The point is that RW doesn't trust what he claims is the cream of the crop--"God's Special Forces"--not to abandon themselves to fornication at the first opportunity. Of course, he also taught us that we judge others based on what we ourselves would do...
Anonymous said...
it proves.... case closed
Jeff said...
Wow! We have a real intellect here. Do me a favor Mr. Anonymous. Try to express yourself more thoroughly and effectively because what you've repeatedly written, I consider to be SPAM that serves no more than to clog this blog.
Thanks.
Jeff
Jeff said,
"They often find it quite hard to get a woman and often even harder to get a good looking woman. I've personally witnessed occasions where a desperate NTCC man took an extremely homely women to be his wife."
Kris said,
"Of course the women were not stressed enough to spread their legs to a b.s. student"
Wow, any of you ladies going to take up for the single sistas? I really wish you men could have seen the female perspective of things.
If you are a lady in the military its tough. I am not just talking about the physical aspect of the job either. When you first arrive to your duty station you have all these men(squad leaders, high ranking NCOs, joe snuffy private) knocking the door down trying to ask you out on a "date". Its really overwhelming if you grew up like me with a moral foundation of how women are supposed to conduct themselves. Of course you have the barracks doorknobs(excuse my crassness) that make it a challenging environment to be in. I grew up with small town values, plus I was 75lbs overweight before I joined the Army. So my perception of dating was nil. So even though you can sharpshoot fire a weapon, at the end of the day you are still seen as a piece of meat.
Well then you get saved learn about how to be a different kind of woman. The Pastor's wife may try to point you in the right direction, but people ulitimatley have their own style. Good skin care is a great start! So of us that were insecure and hid behind our make-up, flashy clothes etc...it takes an adjustment to this new way of life(e.g. holiness)
So you go into this environment you think is safe, and the brothers(not all of them) still judge you. Except now you are a piece of meat that can cook, clean, etc. These men still haven't got over that GI mentality about women. For some reason they skipped over the part of the Bible that says *cherish* Then they wonder why they got rejected because their "game" was wack!
And I'm sorry, I',m not saying I'm a golddigger...but
if you got bill collectors calling the serviceman's home during fellowship. it doesn't impress the ladies!
Not saying I'm all that, but back in the day I could cook, clean, and still run an 8min mile!
whoops meant to sign
ns
Jeff said,
"The NTCC's system us no better than any other system, in fact it's worse. At least people from other organizations don't have to wait forever to find a wife only in many cases to wind up divorced anyway."
Not only do they divorce, they BOTH get married again to other people in ntcc.
Spouse-swapping is alive and well in ntcc!
DnA
ns said "Wow, any of you ladies going to take up for the single sistas?"
LOL. I don't really have the same story.
When I was in the Army at the ripe old age of 18, the last thing on my mind were dudes.
My focus was being a gung ho, HOORAH, wanna go Airborne, Be All You Can Be, super trooper...ROFL...
Of course all that changed when my met my boyfriend, now hubster...lol.
Your comment brought back some memories...
I was always a jean / t-shirt kind of girl or on a fun day one might have seen me wearing multi colored knee high socks under Tinkerbell PJ bottoms walking around the PX in a cowgirl hat (seriously, I was one of a kind back then...lol).
Then I got saved (HalleluYAH!) and began learning how a Christian young lady ought to dress and carry herself (please don't let this go into a pants vs. skirts debate, a woman is still saved whether she has on a pair of jeans or a skirt to the floor) and it was all neat and exciting to me and I loved being more feminine.
I had a great pastor's wife and sisters to help me along the way back then as I transitioned to more feminine non attentive attaire. =)
Oh my goodness this made me remember something else...
I believe I was newly saved at the time and I walked into a Saturday church service (I believe) wearing my Wynonna t-shirt, jeans and I had recently dyed my hair red for some off the wall reason and the pastor and his wife's reaction were kind of like 'oh, hello there Dawn...how are you doing?'
:)
I had lost 45 lbs to join the Army but I lost it so fast because the recruiter had a deadline to meet that it messed my body up for a few months.
Stupid recruiter!
Thanks for bringing some fun memories back ns. =)
ns, You go Girl. You had me LOL!
Sad fact is women in ntcc are not seen as equals. r w davis teaches ntcc men by rw's poor example to see that woman as a maid and cook who should "look pretty and smell nice" like a SILENT FLOWER who has NO AUTHORITY.
I don't care what davis says; his actions are always the opposite. davis says he does not match-make; but he made rules that control who talks to whom == match-making. davis says your wife should be more to you than a maid and cook; but his actions say if a woman is not a maid and cook to her husband, she will be run off through public humiliation from the pulpit. Her husband will be encouraged to find another wife before she is even gone. Actions in ntcc really do speak louder than words, rahj.
Add to that the " [YOUR] Children hinder the work of the Lawd" vasectomy RULE and you've got women looking forward to a life of scrubbing toilets for G.I.s in servicemen's homes. Women encouraged to be barefoot and barren in the barrio. Women taught to "HEEL" when their MASTER yells at them the way they often saw davis bellowing at his 'wife' verna "MOTHER!" - a command from her BOSS to HEEL NOW!!!!!
Men, women, do yourself a favor and find a healthy church home! Come out from "the church behind the fence". Let God lead you, not some ntcc bully like davis or kekel or any of the other ntcc 'leaders' who treat women like second class citizens or mindless puppets who need their strings jerked. That is not "of God"; and neither is davis and his doctrine.
Don't be puzzled by having experienced the "move of God". That experience goes with you WHEREVER you are because YOU are a Christian. Get in a healthy church and find out for yourself! Liberty in the Lord is a wonderful thing. Taste and see.
Don and Ange
RWD says that women are for "cooking, cleaning and having sex". No more no less. NTCC women need to boycott that mess. Women are worth more than that. If you think differently you might as well throw Proverbs 31 in the trash. Y'all NTCC women are getting duped but this is getting off on a different subject.
I'm kind of liking the "asking for permission to date someone" subject. Stop doing it!!!! If you like a women ask her out and if the NTCC leadership doesn't like it then leave their control freak church. Here is what you frustrated brothers need to tell those sisters. "Wow you really look nice today". "I've been interested in you for quite sometime". "Let's get together". "Ask RWD"? "I don't think so, I'm not his child and you aren't either". "So what time can I pick you up for dinner"?
Here is some more advise. Put some smell good on Bro. Brush your teeth and chew some gum so your breath smells fresh. That way when you start talking to her real close over a candle lit dinner, you won't run her off. When you talk to her, look right in her eyes. You can read a woman by her eyes. I'm tell you guys all this because I know for some of you it's been decades since you even SMELLED a woman. You all need to brush up on your "attract a lady" skills.
Find out what she likes to do and then do it with her. Remember, look right in her eyes Bro and don't be scared. Generally, women don't bite and if the one you like does it might be fun. Raar.
Jeff
Dawn said,
"LOL. I don't really have the same story.
When I was in the Army at the ripe old age of 18, the last thing on my mind were dudes.
My focus was being a gung ho, HOORAH, wanna go Airborne, Be All You Can Be, super trooper...ROFL.."
Same here Dawn, I was 18 when I joined the Army. I was in a support unit that frequently provided medical coverage to the line units. Those men had the wrong idea about women, especially minority women! Sorry, I have more sense than the video girl you see on TV!
I know some of the things I wore made my Pastor's wife want to pull her hair out(or flip her wig) lol! Its funny now that I think about it. I was trying to be "hip and holy" at the same time LOL!
ns
We might not be examples of the happy go lucky Christians that Xers are expected to be but we are healing inside and we hope that others can experience a life of normalcy. We hear from the other side all the time. They think they still control us and they try to correct us and we will have none of it. We know too much and our eyes have been opened.
D&A posted
We are not all happy go lucky Christians as we were in ntcc. Because how we lived in ntcc is NOT REAL Christian.Once we left ntcc,my eyes were opened to how folks live a REAL Christian life. As they live there lives. Not in a bubble like we did in ntcc.
the Fake smiles you see in ntcc are just that FAKE. rw davis would say himself. No matter what battle your in,had a fight with your wife. You better get that smile on your face. FAKE IT then actually show emotions!
April
As that woman that was in ntcc. I got married Before getting to WA. was always happy I avoided that dreaded wall. Sitting out there in front of everyone as they watched you try and make small talk with a guy that thought he liked you. What he really liked was having a woman to take out into the work with him. Rw davis promoted men to get married was better then two single men going out into a work. How the public viewed them!!!
As for women not having to get married. Very few women stay single. Because a Woman is to be the keeper of the home. She should be at home taking care of her man. She is such a weak vessel. Woe is me! I was in the Marines and thought I needed to get out once I got married. Have the man take care of all the financial needs! get it bashed over and over. Women are weak! There may not be any accident pregnancy going on. which really has nothing to do with the discussion. That is ALL you got for a come back. Very weak! and then you can not even come back with any kind of discussion. Case closed!LOL I am going to take a shot and say it is because you know you can got nothing of substance to continue the conversation. And take up for your cult! I wonder if Nick Roberts is still single? I have been married 19 years. He has been single that long while being in ntcc!
April
To the Anonymous poster posting about women not getting pregnant:
I will just copy and paste my initial rebuttal to you. You apparently ignored it.
You asked how many women HAD to get married. Puh-leez. They could pick any guy they wanted practically and be married in no time. And most of them did get picked off in relatively little time. Most were married before they finished b.s. if I remember right, whether they were good looking or not. It's the men that were unnecessarily tempted into sin, not the women, buddy!
To the women:
I appreciate your issues as well. I did not mean to say that women don't go through struggles in the NTCC, but I was merely pointing out the issue for men which I think is a cause of severe depression in the NTCC among single men who see little to no hope of being married in an organization that as you can testify is psychologically hostile towards women. Therefore, come to think of it, the two points kind of compliment one another.
That is just the point. The NTCC treats women like such trash and insensitivity to their personal needs as sinners attempting to be Christians, that it is no wonder women are so scarce in the NTCC. And I would venture to say in my own opinion that I think the NTCC does this ON PURPOSE.
You see, Davis loves to get more G.I.s "saved." But in order to fund the servicemen's works, they have to move in the home. If they get married, guess what? They move out of the home. The serviceman's home director wears a frown on his face at the thought of losing a faithful home offering payer. I have heard servicemen's home directors brag about how they ran women off. One such director bragged about how he openly rebuked a woman for telling a lie at the dinner table.
See, women are a threat to the stability of a serviceman's home director's business. They like to keep their churches as a bunch of single men. They are perfectly happy to watch men struggle in their loneliness while they themselves enjoy the companionship of their OWN wife daily.
So, you may have a point Anonymous about your low outside of marriage pregnancy statistics. But there are so few single women in the NTCC that it is no wonder there are so few pregnancies as you mentioned. It's like saying, How many women were raped in a monastery? Well, there aren't any women in a monastery. There are only men.
Anonymous, the point I was making was that the MEN are stressed to do things contrary to the Bible (i.e. lust, fornicate, adultery, etc.) because they don't have hardly any women in NTCC, and the leaders don't seem to care if the men rot in their singleness.
One of the things that caused me to see the wickedness of NTCC was when I read about a pagan tribe in the jungle. One tribe member was talking to an older tribesman from another tribe. The older man expressed to the younger man that he must be suffering so bad because he didn't have a wife yet. He invited him to come to his tribe so he could find a wife.
I thought, this pagan tribesman had enough compassion on his fellow pagan that he cared enough about his physical needs to the point that he helped him to get a wife. I thought, these folks are supposed to be Christians and all they seem to care about is getting more single G.I.s, with little to no concern about their physical needs once they get indoctrinated and locked into this church to the point that they think they can't leave. We were trapped, and perhaps some of you feel trapped in the NTCC, too.
I used to hate myself when I got done masturbating. I hated my situation. I thought, this is what I am reduced to? I'm in my 30s and I am still masturbating like some little deviant teenager! I would like Kekel and Davis to experience going through their sexual peak in their late 20s and early 30s and have no way to release their testosterone but by masturbating themselves! I felt like the smallest little nasty worm! I hated my life in the NTCC!
TMI!
"TMI!"
Bah! Raw truth; be an adult and deal with it.
RW himself was a great promoter of choking the chicken; he told us there was nothing sinful at all about it after Paul Jordan got in a big battle and left BS because he felt guilty. He called all the men downstairs at 2170 Forest Avenue in St. Louis and made sure we wouldn't lay any condemnation on anyone for that.
I don't necessarily disagree with him on that issue, but I do object to his "courting" program, which was tantamount to "forbidding to marry."
Hahaha! Hey, man... this whole blog could be considered TMI (Too Much Information), but if we just keep our feelings and thoughts to ourselves, then what changes would take place in NTCC? I can tell you my personal guesstimation is it would be close to none. I told my personal testimony because thanks God it's in the past. I wouldn't have dared to tell anyone back then, but I think there are probably hundreds of single ministers in NTCC that, whether they admit it or not, they know exactly the feelings that I just expressed. It's reality. That is what Davis reduces men to. When they could have a wife and enjoy a normal godly relationship with a woman where the bed is sanctified, they are reduced to feeling like little perverts hiding in their bedroom with a roll of toilet paper. It's so degrading when that is what you have to do to get your mind "back on God" at the age of say, 33. Sex is a gift from God that is robbed from unsuspecting G.I.s in the serviceman's homes and then in the seminary.
On the one hand NTCC puts down the Catholic church for not allowing priests to marry, and then they invite almost exclusively MEN to their military outreaches, and ship them off to Bible School where there are still hardly any women. Then if the guy goes to Conference, THERE IS NO COURTING AT THE CAMPGROUND!
Like Jeff, I made it happen on my own- no thanks to NTCC. I was told that Malsingh told another brother that I would be married within a year of leaving NTCC. This was supposed to be his way of saying that I left NTCC for a wife. Big deal if I did! I think that is a perfectly legitimate reason to leave that organization. You want a wife! I said I wanted to be a Christian. I didn't say I wanted to be a monk. God didn't tell me I have to be a monk! He said in His word that the bed is sanctified, and if you can't contain, you should have a wife! I couldn't contain, alright? I was lusting and I was concerned for my own soul's sake. And yes, I wanted to have SEX! I will gladly admit that that was a major contributing factor to my departing from NTCC. I didn't want to ask permission to talk to my own girlfriend every time I talked to her. You single guys can do that, but I'm not going to be a mouse. And I don't want another man having more authority in my house than I do. I am not going to let the things I have read about be done to my wife by the likes of RW Davis. I might get arrested if Kekel or Davis did something like that to my wife.
The rules don't help by telling people you can't talk without permission, because Jesus said if you lust after a woman you have committed adultery already in your heart. So, anonymous, do you think that none of the single men committed adultery in their hearts when they went 7, 8, 9, 10, or 20 years without touching a woman? So the strict rules don't make your org any better. You are concerned about what the public sees, that there are no swollen bellies of unmarried women. What we are talking about is maybe a little deeper than your superficial religious mind can fathom. Case closed (between you and me).
Kris said...
I was told that Malsingh told another brother that I would be married within a year of leaving NTCC.
Jeff said...
I'm sad to hear that. So Malsingh also turned into a smear doctor? That is so sad. He was a real good dude. He and I were at the serviceman's home together in 1985. The NTCC will corrupt anyone and scramble their brain. So Malsingh is no different than the rest of them. He doesn't know any better. He is just following the example of RDUB the swindler / smear doctor.
Jeff
"That is what Davis reduces men to. When they could have a wife and enjoy a normal godly relationship with a woman where the bed is sanctified, they are reduced to feeling like little perverts hiding in their bedroom with a roll of toilet paper."
Well, here's some real TMI--there was a minor scandal in the BS when some dorm toilets got clogged up by plastic newspaper bags. Why were the brothers flushing those? Well, they had been fashioning artificial vaginas out of them for a little more realism; it's apparently an old prison technique (and they were in prison, after all). So the used "liners" were inadvisedly flushed, just like their faces were once RW outed them from the pulpit for a practice that he basically made them desperate enough to try. They were reduced to hugging a pillow and boinking a plastic bag. That's what these ridiculous rules cause.
Men weren't the only ones told by a pastor it was okay to uh, well, you know...
My husband was deployed for the 1st time one year and my first pastor pulled me aside before a soul winning meeting and said since my hubby was deployed it was okay to 'do things to myself' if I needed to.
I was horrified! I looked at him and said 'okay sir' and couldn't wait to get into the sisters car and get out of there, it was too weird for me....
I couldn't talk to that pastor quite the same after that.
I still don't know if that 'deed' is considered sinful or not. For years I used to believe so, but my ideals and beliefs have been changing or evolving so who knows.
Vic...that last comment from you just made my heart cry for those young men. :(
What a great church. I would want my child to attend that Bible School and learn how to have sex with a bag.
There is certainly something wrong with that system.
saran wrap has sunk to a new low!
All kinds of weirdness there in this group. Most will bellow from the pulpit about the "lust of the flesh" but are sexual frustrated or even deviants. RWD will say that people only want the internet for porn, but then I forgot that he can just look at a naked woman and think that she's cold or can appreciate your "natural beauty" without ever lusting. Maybe the men wouldn't look so sour and the women so dour if they just had sex instead of trying to put the NTCC first in every area of their lives.
Men are emasculated, women are subjugated, your life or ministry is frustrated and then you feel guilty if you masturbated; all the while RWD and Kekel are elevated.
Has anyone ever witness this situation. A minister and his family have a teenage daughter that’s about to graduate or shortly after she graduate’s High School; gawd calls this family back to Graham. Within 6 months the daughter is married off to a minister riding the bench at Graham 10 years older than her and life continues in NTCC. I personally know this happened to one family, but was just curious how often does this happen?
Thanks for your Testimony Kris, it’s a lot of brothers in NTCC fighting that battle, it was the truth and an eye opener to the way RWD runs NTCC.
Maybe some of Robert's congregants who read this will ask him to leave the borg and lead them on. He is obviously qualified as a pastor. If the congregant feels called to preach there are plenty of great bible schools out there. I'm sure God could direct them to a school where the bible is taught and the leaders live it, where teenage girls are not married off to men much older than they, and where men date and marry women, rather than living twenty years in celibacy while spanking the monkey with yesterday's newswrapper! How is that edifying? Please people look for a better church. God's ways are higher than man's. Just ask any man who is married if the sex is better that way ... We can and must trust Him to lead us! Come out from amoung them, and be ye separate!
Kris, you made some very good points and I have to commend you for sticking it out and finally realizing that your only possibility to survive the ntcc experience was to get out and get married. Many people, to include myself were so messed up in our minds and so driven by lust that we left the ntcc and followed our own desires. I am not proud of this but it happened and it's real.
I was a product of the ntcc. I was the sum total of everything that is wrong with the ntcc. Do I blame them? Sure I do. If I had been a member of a normal church instead of a cult, I most likely would have been married in my late teens or early twenties. If I went to a church that allowed men to talk to women, I would now most likely be retired from the Army as a pilot and married with children and grand children. How many people do you know in the ntcc that have been allowed to live out this kind of life? Not only do they not allow you to get married but they do not allow you to follow any path in your life that does not lead you to total "consecration" to the ntcc.
If you are in the ntcc and reading this thread and you don't realize that you are in a cult, I feel sorry for you. I wish we had the ability to unbrainwash you. Many people have left the ntcc for the purpose of getting a wife and many more have left so they can have sex. The ntcc leaders do not care about your future or you leading a normal life. They are only concerned about the money you are bringing in.
I'm so thankful that God had mercy on my soul and through everything that has happened, my wife and I are together and living a healthy life with a normal relationship, living in a house of our choice and doing the things we enjoy. There is freedom outside of the ntcc and the primary purpose of the ntcc is to place fear in your heart so that you will stay and give. I know people in the ntcc that have been involved with the ntcc for the better part of three decades and are still not married, but they are paying their tithe. When do the blessings finally come? When those brethren have to sneak off to have an encounter with a prostitute or some place of ill repute so they can "get off" for the first time in their life at the age of fifty?
I guarantee you that there are people in the ntcc that have done this and will have to live with it. Some are still in and have to live with this everyday. Some have left and given themselves to the desires of the flesh. Do you think anyone in the ntcc will have to answer for this? You can talk about personal responsibility all you want, but the ntcc holds way too much power over the lives of young impressionable GI's.
You can't be expected to suppress sexual desires for decades. It's a physical need that must be satisfied, or people will be driven by it. If you wonder why there is so much perversion in the world to include child molestation and rape and so many other forms of sexual abuse; well, much of it has it's roots in religious groups that force people into years of celibacy. It's unnatural and cruel.
Don and Ange
If you a bible school student in Graham and you come across this blog, you should go straight to kekel and demand him to show you in the bible where God endorses celibacy. Make him show you scriptures that support him and the ntcc not allowing you to talk to the woman of your choice. Ask him to show you some bible verses that say you have to go through him to ask a girl out.
At the Fort Bragg Servicemen's Home we had a pastor that I will not name whose wife had an affair with a brother in the home (not me), and eventually they were replaced. This pastor encouraged "church hopping" and we all went to other churches. Well, this led to number of the brothers leaving ntcc and getting married in other churches. There was a schism that paled in comparison to the denis debacle but people were allowed to experience and taste Christian freedom in other churches and decided that they didn't want to stay single. Most of them went to a different holiness church that still believed outward appearance was detrimental if one wanted to make heaven their home. But there was so much more freedom even in this church, than in the ntcc.
It's pretty sad when your cult is losing members to a different holiness church because they encourage normal things like marriage and dating. What a noble concept. Trusting adults to do the right thing. People aren't looking for compromise or sin, they just want to have a normal life, being married and having a family. Is that too much to ask?
Don and Ange
Oh yeah, easy to say anonymous when young men are raging with testosterone.
A person can focus all they want on God, it doesn't make the desire for passion, love, and sex just magically disappear.
But I'm sure you have never had that problem.
The "case closed" Kool-Aid drinker strikes again...And then they want to use the good ole NTCC cult one liners like "focus on God", which being interpeted meaneth - "please make sure that you do not talk to any woman as you walk down the sidewalk (on or off campus), don't ask to talk to one until I'm in town, and make sure you keep yourself busy about the Grand Poobah's business so we can get another offering..." It's funny they got 10 guys going after 1 woman and heaven forbid you bring a woman from another church because she will get blasted from behind the pulpit and you will too for bringing her.
"So Malsingh is no different than the rest of them. He doesn't know any better. He is just following"
oh he knows better!
Anonymous said...
The "case closed" Kool-Aid drinker strikes again...
Jeff said...
And I just struck again with the delete button. That junk was just spam serving to do no more than clog the blog.
Jeff
Dawn said, "The desire for passion, love, and sex, doesn't magically disappear..." That is one of the most absolute truest statements I've heard yet! That's why Paul said it's better to marry than to burn.
Just when you think your doing so great and walking uprightly God will always let you know that you are nothing if it wasn't for His sheer grace, mercy, and love!!!
God knows we have these battles and sometimes fail. It gives me the constant realization that we are only going to
heaven SOLELY because of what Jesus did for us!
Otherwise I'm still looking for a good wife that will help me
in living for Jesus and doing His will!!!
I remember that 1994 conference when they said if a preacher commited adultry or fornication then they would no longer be allowed to preach in the NTCC organization & then the next conference they rescended that rule. Why? Because no matter how spiritual we are we can still fail God, need continued forgiveness, and we're only going to heaven by the grace of God GIVING us the gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord!
ntcc men love to gloat when folks leave. Jargon saying,they left for the love of money. They left because there wife pulled them away or they left to find a wife or have sex. All of those reasons are absolutely correct. And very good reasons to leave ntcc. Your broke in ntcc and they will make sure you stay at whatever level they want you at. Money is essential part of life!
As far as any woman made to get married in ntcc. How do we know who was made and who was not made. How about Tanya,Johnsons daughters. All were very young when they got married. Were they MADE to get married. Told that this was what God wanted for there lives. As if they would know any difference being so young!
Brainwashing jargon preaching is used over and over. A man that finds a wife finds a good thing. The right mate is such a help out in a work. on and on and on!! A man that can will seek out a wife and that woman in Bible school wants to be taken care of. She is the weaker vessel. Or so she is told!
I am thankful I got married in the local ntcc church. We were allowed somewhat of a normal wedding ceremony. Even took a honeymoon.
April,
Anonymous said...
Thanks for your Testimony Kris, it’s a lot of brothers in NTCC fighting that battle, it was the truth and an eye opener to the way RWD runs NTCC.
Kris said...
You're welcome.
See, even when someone presents a "fact" it is rejected. The writer made a point. So, instead of allowing the point to be made, you dump the writer. Just can not allow the truth to be published here can you?
It was not "made to get married" it was had to. Because the woman was with child.
Thank you and good-nite.
CC
Hold On!
Chokin' Chickens,
Newspaper wrappers,
Pregnant Bible students,
Perverts with toilet paper,
Spread legs,
Fifty year olds sneaking off with prostitutes,
This sounds like a good 50 cent porn movie from the local xxx shop.
Is this supposed to be a Holiness or Hell message or what?
Anonymous said:
Hold On!
Chokin' Chickens,
Newspaper wrappers,
Pregnant Bible students,
Perverts with toilet paper,
Spread legs,
Fifty year olds sneaking off with prostitutes,
This sounds like a good 50 cent porn movie from the local xxx shop.
Is this supposed to be a Holiness or Hell message or what?
Don and Ange said:
This is your ntcc!
Thankfully my husband went out into a work right after graduation BS. And he immediately began to look for a wife, internet, fix ups, he would even just walk up to women on the street and ask if they wanted to date.(FYI, he got stood up a couple of times.)
Thankfully we met and the local NTCC pastor refused to do the ceremony since we were getting married in another church. He gave us some lie about not being ordained or something. Our marriage was not "approved" and we did it so fast no one had time to try and stop it. There were apparently false things said about me and him.
Come to find out there was a girl back in WA that they were trying to push on him after he had asked to talk to someone else. This girl was not the desire of his heart and he knew better so he found me:) What a sick game....
"no bro, that girl isn't for you but, try this one over here" how would they know who is right for who!
My heart goes out to all of you who have been or are going through Bible school and to those single guys and gals.
Oh and the whole "case closed" garbage... sex for men and women is very different and not saying women can't burn with desire but, not to the degree men do. Most of the girls in BS are taught to be prudes so obviously there would be no hanky panky but, at least if the guys got to talk to the girls maybe they could get married sooner and get some! Just saying...
Anonymous said, "I remember that 1994 conference when they said if a preacher commited adultry or fornication then they would no longer be allowed to preach in the NTCC organization & then the next conference they rescended that rule. Why?"
Somebody couldn't keep their zipper up and the rule was changed to protect them??? Just asking.
The ntcc is really a sick and unhealthy place for singles. Their mantra is "God will Bless you brother or sister". God wants you to go to bible school and you need keep your mind on God before you make a decision like that.
What makes you think you can make a responsible decision on your own of this nature? Especially a decision this important? You need a pastor to be involved in this decision. You can't think for yourself, you are just a babe in Christ. You need someone with years of experience in manipulating others to help you make the right (wrong) choice.
This is the type of thinking that makes the ntcc a cult. God can't lead you to make responsible decisions for your life so you need a pastor to advise you on decisions of this nature. Mom and Pop Gaylord summed it up pretty good in a letter they wrote to me when they said, "As far as you and her getting married, Bro. Davis, Bro. Barnes nor Pop have nothing to say about you ....... marrying; that is between you and her and the Lord."
Maybe it was, but we never got the chance to find out because of the manipulation of the local pastor which didn't have the same attitude as Mom and Pop.
If you have to ask your pastor if you can talk to a member of the opposite sex, you might just be in a cult.
If you have to sneak away to hold hands, you might just be in a cult.
If you are not trusted to be alone with a member of the opposite sex, you might just be in a cult.
If you've ever been jacked up for talking to a sister, you might just be in a cult.
If you've ever been jacked up for talking to a brother, you might just be in a cult.
If the founder of an organization has to tell a group of horny bs students that it's all right for them to spit shine the old water pump, than you might just be in a cult.
Don and Ange
Don and Ange said...
You need someone with years of experience in manipulating others to help you make the right (wrong) choice.
Jeff said...
EXACTLY. None of these NTCC pastors are qualified to assist anyone with marriage decisions. They just need to keep their noses out of it. And so what if the brother or sister winds up divorced and the pastor was never involved. They may very well have wound up divorced if the pastor was involved. It happens all the time in the NTCC. These NTCC pastors shouldn't have a single solitary thing to do with someones plans concerning dating, marriage, divorce or any other plans of that nature. I'm telling you. You NTCC folks and students need to put your foot down and put a COMPLETE stop to that mess. You guys ain't teenagers below the age of 18. You are not juveniles. If you go to court you are tried as an adult. So why in the world are you letting some unqualified manipulator dictate who you date, when you date, when you can talk to them, or who you marry?
Boy I'd love to be in the NTCS single, for one day and for one reason. I'd walk up to the first single sister that caught my eye right in front of one of those sorry leaders and ask her out on a date. I would loudly ask her if she'd like to go with me to see a movie while proclaiming that I didn't see any problem with it being that Grant Kekel was allowed to watch movies using his DVD player.
Incidentally, I'm not interested in semantics here. Watching a DVD using a optical DVD drive on a computer is the same as a DVD player or a VCR hooked up to a TV. I couldn't believe that someone tried to argue that point. Saying that a VCR hooked up to a TV is different than watching a movie using a DVD optical drive on a computer hooked up to a LCD. Hypocrite!!!
Jeff
I will say that one young lady that I met at NTCC and I are still together, been together for 11 years now.
I saw another brother moving in, and like Jeff said, I made my move. I knew if I did not, the other brother would. A funny thing happened after that, after I proposed, the "soft" brother faded away in the background, never to return.
NTCC did not you to date a sister unless you wanted to marry her. Well that is what I did and through thick and thin, she is a keeper (AND my BETTer half!!)
Funny thing is too, we are BOTH out of NTCC = ANOTHER Miracle!!
Bro Johnson
Dawn stated,
"Oh yeah, easy to say anonymous when young men are raging with testosterone".
Dawn, I wish I had THAT problem :)
ha ha this post is too funny.
Bro Johnson
True story while in NTCC:
I invited an attractive young lady out to church.
She opened the door wearing, well use your imagination, she was scantly clothed, she asked me to sit down on her bed.
So, I sit down and told her we really enjoyed having you at the church the other night, made small talk DID NOT TOUCH NOTHIN!! and extended an invitation to her to come to church.
I was amazed at my own composure, I guess to the pure, all things are pure, I really cared about her soul.
I saw the same young lady at the PX a little bit later, she was looking at me in the weirdest way, but I did not give her the time of day.
I dont know if I was a by product of NTCC brainswashing or not, but if I am placed in that same situation again (being singlenot married), be rest assured I would not have left that room for a while!!
Bro Johnson
Brother Johnson said,
"I dont know if I was a by product of NTCC brainswashing or not, but if I am placed in that same situation again (being singlenot married), be rest assured I would not have left that room for a while!!"
maybe GOD and SALVATION were a factor!
Bro. Johnson said:
"I was amazed at my own composure, I guess to the pure, all things are pure, I really cared about her soul."
Don said:
Why would you then need a man's permission to talk to or date a woman? It's so much better to live for God in freedom than to walk on egg shells all the time. When you are not trusted to make these decisions for yourself, you have to wonder if the person that makes these rules is untrustworthy.
That's the difference between a cult leader and the pastor of a church. A cult leader is in your business. Does not trust you. Has to make a bunch of rules because he is scared that you would do what he would do. A Pastor genuinely cares about you and your welfare. He Doesn't interfere with your personal life or decisions. He prays for you and may give you a warning or try to steer you in the right direction but leaves the decision up to you. Does not constantly hold the fear of hell over your head to keep you in line. Doesn't have to.
It reminds me of some people that I work with. True leaders will bring out the best in you. They know that if people can work in an environment where they are not threatened and rewarded for their hard work, they will in turn be more motivated to do things right and get more done. It was like this in the Army to. If you were in a company that was run by a narcissist, you can testify that everyone hated being there. You did your job because it was the right thing to do and thats it. A company that was run by a leader that leads by example was allowed to run itself. People did right because they were motivated and the company was much more productive because the morale of it's members was high. We had a commander in Fort Bragg that was like this. Any man in that unit would do just about anything for this guy because he was a true leader and never would expect people to do anything unethical or immoral. People would go to war with him and die for him because he was genuine and cared about their welfare.
The ntcc could be the same way except it's hard to find a pastor that will allow you to enjoy your salvation. They were all taught by the greatest narcissist of them all, r-dub. A group that is run by Hitler will produce like products. Even though there are leaders that would like to introduce more freedom to their members they dare not because they will be jacked up in front of their members for doing so.
Don and Ange
"A cult leader is in your business. Does not trust you. Has to make a bunch of rules because he is scared that you would do what he would do."
All the weird rules and obsessive control stem from RW doing what he himself taught that most people do--judging others by his own character. What does it say about a man when he has what he claims is "the cream of the crop" and "God's Special Forces," yet he won't trust these stalwart warriors for God to get out of his sight with a member of the opposite sex, or even TALK to one unrestricted? It says that he himself would be unable to resist such a temptation, and he thinks that everyone else is likewise undisciplined.
If one beholds and considers NTCC as an entity, in all of its bizarre manifestation, he merely sees blueprint of the twisted soul of its founder. The organization is weird because its founder and inspirer is weird. We all thought there was something wrong with him, but we suppressed our own good judgment as "lies of the devil." They weren't. There is something wrong with the guy, and we were right all along. If you're still trapped, realizing that is one of the first things you can do to extricate yourself--have confidence in your own ability to spot a fake, and don't let false guilt prevent you from acknowledging the obvious when it's right in front of you.
This should be called the "Don and Ange and Jeff" blog.
Jeff can't you clean him off, he will stab you in the back, I know, he did me!
Anonymous said:
"This should be called the "Don and Ange and Jeff" blog.
Jeff can't you clean him off, he will stab you in the back, I know, he did me!"
Don and Ange said:
I'll tell you what. If you tell us who you are, and how we stabbed you in the back, I'll clean myself off of this blog. We aren't stabbing anyone in the back, maybe in the front. You will not do this because you are a drive-by anonymous sniper that doesn't like what we have to say. Jeff, Vic, Kris, and even RB and many others that come on here usually use facts or experiences to support their claims.
Calling someone a back stabber is pretty serious. Considering that you made that statement anonymously, can you at least tell us anonymously how you feel we stabbed you in the back? I have been brutally honest about many things on this blog and especially on our blog. We are not in this to hurt people or for revenge. We are not going to leave this blog because some anonymous poster is crying about being stabbed in the back and I doubt that Jeff will "clean us off" this blog because you want him to. Jeff has been a friend and more of a brother to us than anyone in the ntcc. If we are doing anything to hurt his cause and he asks us to we will depart as friends. This blog is thriving right now with threads reaching 400 comments. I doubt we are hurting it at all.
I understand many people use anonymous because they have so much fear in their hearts, and that fear was instilled by the ntcc. If people don't want the ntcc or other friends to know who they are, fine, I get that. But when you make a comment like you did, it's troubling to me that you won't sign it or give any details. I realize that people don't like us but we are not trying to win a popularity contest here. We are sharing our real stories, which by the way, are all true. So I say again anonymous, if you tell us who you are and how we stabbed you in the back, if what you are saying is true and we are back stabbers we will "clean ourselves off this blog".
Don and Ange
We do what we do to help people realize that the ntcc is a cult. We use the blogs to blast them as they have blasted us. We do not hide or use deceitful methods to get our point across. Every story we have told is true and can be supported by facts. If this hurts people than so be it. I hope it hurts them enough to realize that the real enemy here is the ntcc. They are the ones that have hurt you and me and all the others that testify on this blog.
Anonymous said this about Don and Ange:
"he will stab you in the back, I know, he did me!"
Kris said...
RW said he used this line on Denis. I think when cult leaders use this line on cult-escapees, it is "code" for "You told others the secret things that I trusted you with. That was between you and me. I can't tell others what I told you that you told on me for, because it was something questionable or wrong, so I will just call you a 'back-stabber.'"
In the mafia, they would call someone who told on them to the authorities, A RAT!
Listen Mr. Anonymous,
I don't know what you are upset about, but don't go calling people "back-stabbers" in front of others unless you are willing to tell what you said or did that he told on you for, especially if you are a leader. Why is it that when a former gangster goes and runs to the authorities and tells about the dreadful things the mafia did, that he is regarded as a bad man turned good? Of course the mafia isn't going to like that man, because he is hurting their organization.
Look, we may not be able to get you guys arrested because you have the freedom to strip the freedoms away from people psychologically by your master-mind with the phd in psychology, but we can warn others about you so they will see if they take the time to do the research about you, what kinds of things you do. At that point, it is entirely up to them to live to serve two people or get out and take care of themselves first and then help those who truly need help, particularly the poor.
Anonymous said...
A minister and his family have a teenage daughter that’s about to graduate or shortly after she graduate’s High School; gawd calls this family back to Graham. Within 6 months the daughter is married off to a minister riding the bench at Graham 10 years older than her and life continues in NTCC.
Kris said...
Anonymous, that is yet another shocking "tale from the crypt."
Anonymous said...
"A minister and his family have a teenage daughter that’s about to graduate or shortly after she graduate’s High School; gawd calls this family back to Graham. Within 6 months the daughter is married off to a minister riding the bench at Graham 10 years older than her and life continues in NTCC."
Don and Ange say,
Yup. That is a disturbingly true trend you see in ntcc. Fresh teenie-bopper brides brought to the ntc bridal school, whether they like it or not.
Isn't that one reason why Rev. Curry left the borg?
I know April and Tracy both stated they were greatly concerned for their daughters by this disturbing trend in the ntc of match-making young girls to older bible school students or ministers. Christians should guard the welfare of their own children as Tracy and April did when they got their young daughters out of the smorgasborG
{:-0
Don and Ange
Kristofer said:
"Listen Mr. Anonymous,
I don't know what you are upset about, but don't go calling people "back-stabbers" in front of others unless you are willing to tell what you said or did that he told on you for, especially if you are a leader."
Don said:
"The thing about it is I haven't betrayed the trust of anyone. The only person, and I mean only person that I have told on is Rwd. He told me never to mention anything about what happened in Colorado Springs and never to tell anyone about the homosexual pastors at Fort Bragg and Korea. I don't consider that a breach of confidence because I am no longer a member of this cult and people need to know this stuff so they don't get entangled in the same trap I did.
I sure would like to know how I stabbed you in the back anonymous. There is only one person I can think of that has the right to call me a back stabber and that person was told by senior ntcc leaders that I accused them of sexual deviance. I know this because I watched a minister tell a lie on the phone to a board member and another minister regarding this person. The only reason I do not mention names is because I do not wish make a public display of this person who through no fault of their own was drug through the dirt by the ntcc. This was not true. If you want to discuss this further email me. My email address is 1gi2another@gmail.com. If you are this person, you may not trust me but at least hear me out. I will keep our email in complete confidence if you desire.
If the anonymous poster is someone that I have mentioned by name on our blog, I have no sympathy for you. Chances are that you hurt me a hundred times worse than I could ever hurt you. If you call that back stabbing then I hope you include your self in that title.
Don and Ange
Commenting on the question about what female Bible Student HAD to get married... the answer is every single one of them if they wanted to ever go out into a work and put their learning into practice. Women don't get sent out into works by themselves. At least that was the way it was back when I was in... maybe that's changed.
Anonymous said,
"Commenting on the question about what female Bible Student HAD to get married... the answer is every single one of them if they wanted to ever go out into a work and put their learning into practice. Women don't get sent out into works by themselves. At least that was the way it was back when I was in."
Ange says,
BINGO! That's a fact, Jack! DING DING DING DING DING!!! You win the prize for telling it just like it is!
The women in ntcc meet all the same requirements as the male students, but where are the women's ministers' licenses?
Angela, it's a shame women are so subjegated that they are not allowed to be ministers... only minister's wives. I know many women who would do a MUCH better job than their husbands, yet they are not allowed to have their own ministry :(
Blast from the past Chief! It's really sad to see grown men have to stand in line to ask someone else if they can talk to a girl. If that isn't the most emasculating thing in the world, I don't what is. If you don't heed their advice or thoughts on that girl, they also won't talk to you anymore about it. Famous line of Davis was "You're going to do what you wanna do anyway..."
Most of these guys get out of the military, stand around in line and unless they get married while in Bridal College they'll be standing around for more. It's also sad to see someone in their 30s still not married because they are trusting the opinion of some man or they don't fit the bill for alpha male douche-bag man-pleaser that the leadership will try to hookup with an unsuspecting girl.
It's crazy how they also try to set guys up with women from the Philippines too. Sounds almost like some spam email line to me - "Nice Filipina - love you long time..." Now with Kekel it's OK if they go online and find a girl or still pick one up when they get sent somewhere, as long as she is willing to conform to NTCC standards and goes to the Bridal College.
Anon said....
Famous line of Davis was "You're going to do what you wanna do anyway..."
Chief said...
Ain't that the truth. Psychological brainwashing 101. Davis would say that so he could hold it against you if things got difficult in your relationship. The reality is, things get difficult in just about all relationships not the least of which, are those that the NTCC leadership unconditionally bless off on. Relationships and marriages that those crooks have given thumbs up on as often as not result in divorce and or separation. That's when Psychological brainwashing 102 comes in.
NTCC leader bloviating: "You simply aren't right with God and your not praying enough brother because if you were, you wouldn't be in this situation!!! You need to get prayed through and get a hold of GAWD"!!!
That's the brainwashing tactics they use to leave you in a constant state of self guilt and self condemnation. NTCC leaders are full of dung and they are the worst match makers in the planet. They just want control and that's what their tactics revolve around, TOTALLY!!! Well guess what. They can kiss my butt. Thank the good Lord above that I didn't listen to those crooks because my life is a whole lot better because of it.
Kekel and Olson couldn't lead me to a dumpster if I had a rotten bag of old crusty fish fillets with some stankin tarter sauce that had gone bad for a month. I might leave it on Kekel's head so he could go get one of them brainwashed sisters to come lick it off and say, "thank you pastor" when she finished. Then her sorry husband would say, "praise gawd pastor for giving my wife a chance to be a blessing" when she had some old stankin tarter sauce all over her lips. I wouldn't let my wife go clean Kekel's house if a big fat cow came and dropped a load on his living room floor and she was the only person on earth with a mop!!!! The Kekel's could lick it up for all I care. There is no reason that any church member should ever go clean the Kekel's house. If they need money let them go get a REAL job. According to the Bible Tanya is supposed to be cleaning her own house. Keepers at home. That's what it means. Of course the NTCC got that one backwards but whats new. If you are going to keep women oppressed you got to twist the scriptures as much as possible and the NTCC been doing that for decades.
I'd rather marry a straight self professed heathen than a brainwashed NTCC woman. I prefer people who are real. Having said that, NTCC women can be converted back to real decent human beings if they ever break away from that mess.
You have to get people saved from the ntcc..... Win their souls from that disgusting mess.
Chief saith - "That's the brainwashing tactics they use to leave you in a constant state of self guilt and self condemnation."
That's straight up the TRUTH - This all started back when you first come to church and become saved / initiated in the NTCC. You are made to feel that you are not enough of a leader, not squared away enough, can't preach as well as, don't soul-win as good as, don't pray as long as, don't read the Bible as much as, don't give as much tithe or offerings as, or don't listen to the call of God as much as the Pastor.
When an overseer comes to town, they are elevated by the Pastor as a pinnacle of holiness for you to look up to. Now you need to give more in World Missions, the Building Fund, and emulate this man if you ever want to "do something for God". If you don't get to a Conference then you're not really taking the call of God seriously.
Next is their Bridal College and you are exposed to this environment of constant activity and becoming subservient, man-pleasing and emasculated men. These same people do things for appearances or to prove their loyalty to the leadership that reside in Graham. Clean their houses, cars, shine shoes, iron drapes and laundry, sew clothing, cut yards and many more activities to prove that they too can be a blessing to the "men of God". Maybe they'll notice you so you can go to that city, talk to that woman or some special request to be granted to you as an emotionally dependent adult.
Then the day finally comes for you to leave Graham, with or without your bride. You go to a city you have never been to with little financial savings and no support from the headquarters. You have to either start in a conference room, lease a storefront or building and try to scratch out something while you are there. You feel guilty for not soul-winning enough, not having enough tithe and offerings coming in to cover expenses, and you don't have more to give them or show for your time when an Overseer comes to town.
Every step of the way you are conditioned to feel that you are not worthy of the love of Jesus Christ because of something you did not perform. It may be that it was really orchestrated to not allow you to succeed. God forbid that you a family because they make you feel guilty as a leader, as a man, as a preacher, and as a provider for your family if you choose to take care of them instead of the church.
That may be the best post I've ever read about the NTCC during my time blogging. Now that is the NTCC right down to it's core. Anonymous, whoever you are you understand the NTCC as well as anyone I've encountered. And that my friend is psychological brainwashing and guilt tripping at its very best.
That is precisely how they get you hoodwinked to the max. This blog is ok after all. Not to devalue other posts but that was outstanding.
Thus saith the Chiefster. Football season is about to begin. I'm getting ready to park my butt on the couch and chill and enjoy life. Thank God I've escaped the manipulative, controlling, brainwashing, con artist ridden, control freak laden, abusive, scripture twisting, NTCC. And life keeps getting better every day. Know the truth and the truth shall set you free.
Kekel and Olson couldn't lead me to a dumpster if I had a rotten bag of old crusty fish fillets with some stankin tarter sauce that had gone bad for a month.
I'm using this line first chance I get on another blog...
Mike
Homely womens need luv 2, Jeff.
It would seem just as gays kind of have a look so do the women of NTCC. They look like pilgrims.
Not trying to insult them it's just that fat women seem very attracted to this church.
Take a walk and stop adding cheese to everything.
Mike, bad news for Vikes. Teddy was carted off the field and taken to the hospital for what they think is a season ending knee injury. Lets hope the Vikes can rally behind Shaun Hill.
Post a Comment