 |
| The NTCC Blowviator |
An unknown individual posted this message a few threads back and I thought it would make for a good discussion.
Anon said...
We've attended NTCC in Alabama and they're teaching about Holy Ghost Baptism-A SEPERATE Baptism with "FIRE" Holy Ghost saying that you are saved but have to wait for a second baptism in the HOLY GHOST and Speaking in tongues is indeed the evidence of it - telling people basically your saved but in essence not that saved if you don't have the Holy Ghost (This is as I know it to be a Pentecostal belief) and the scriptures they give to substantiate their claim don't coincide with it at all much like their tithing scriptures ? I don't believe that and never have ... This teaching seems to cause a division/superiority among members and often leave those who believe this wondering "Why" they have not "Yet" Received the Baptism of the HOLY GHost ? Then as I stated They say their are 6 OTHER BAPTISMS ! What Do U Think Of This?
Anon 2 replied...
Here is what the Bible says:
1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
1Co 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
....In the Bible these are all rhetorical questions. The answer is NO. So here is my point.The NTCC teaches that everyone who has "The Holy Ghost" will speak in tongues but the Bible clearly suggests otherwise. So they coax people into speaking in tongues and say they all have the gift of tongues but here is the ironic part. When Briggs had cancer and died, where was the gift of healings? When Ramirez got sick and died, where were the healings? They weren't because people in the NTCC have not been given that gift so therefor there was no healing to be had. What about interpreting tongues? Not that one either? So the point is I simply don't buy it? What about making the blind see? Not that miracle either? The lame walk? Oh, I guess not that one either. What about water into wine? Multiplying the fishes maybe? Oh, I see but they all can speak in tongues. Again, I don't buy it.
So thousands of NTCCers all speak in tongues, (because I witnessed them uttering something) but I never saw someone healed when they were sick like with cancer or something tangible like that. Oh my headache got better doesn't work for me. Quite honestly NTCCers can knowingly or unknowingly fake some noises with their mouth, but there was no one who could heal Briggs when everyone knew he was dying of cancer and of course he died. NTCCers are fake knowingly or not. It's just that simple.
Chief said...
I've seen some many people in the NTCC leave the NTCC who supposedly did receive the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. Then the NTCC pastor claimed they were not saved. So what, did they ever really get the Holy Ghost? So does that suggest that their tongue talking was fake all along. So Denis never really had the Holy Ghost? What about Reed? Taylor? Blumenthal? Both Sister and Brother? Shunk? So none of them ever really had the Holy Ghost or the Holy Ghost really wasn't able to keep them which according to the NTCC made them no different than someone who never got the Holy Ghost in the first place.
So thousands of NTCCers all speak in tongues, (because I witnessed them uttering something) but I never saw someone healed when they were sick like with cancer or something tangible like that. Oh my headache got better doesn't work for me. Quite honestly NTCCers can knowingly or unknowingly fake some noises with their mouth, but there was no one who could heal Briggs when everyone knew he was dying of cancer and of course he died. NTCCers are fake knowingly or not. It's just that simple.
Chief said...
I've seen some many people in the NTCC leave the NTCC who supposedly did receive the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. Then the NTCC pastor claimed they were not saved. So what, did they ever really get the Holy Ghost? So does that suggest that their tongue talking was fake all along. So Denis never really had the Holy Ghost? What about Reed? Taylor? Blumenthal? Both Sister and Brother? Shunk? So none of them ever really had the Holy Ghost or the Holy Ghost really wasn't able to keep them which according to the NTCC made them no different than someone who never got the Holy Ghost in the first place.
Lets be real here and stop all this hocus pocus. The NTCC leadership doesn't have a clue who in fact really has the Holy Ghost and who doesn't and my questions are guaranteed proof. If the NTCC version of speaking in tongues was proof then none of these so called, (Holy Ghost filled) saved brothers and sisters would have ever left the NTCC in the first place. They supposedly "Lost out with God" which, (according to the NTCC false prophet leaders) wouldn't ever happen if they got baptized with the Holy Ghost for real in the first place. So what, it wasn't for real? So their speaking in tongues wasn't real? So are the only real tongue talkers the ones who stay in the NTCC?
It's a bunch of hog wash and if you have a functional brain, and with this knowledge, you should able to see right through these NTCC fakers.
106 comments:
"God shook them out."
Thank you for this post... This killed me for the longest time. I've never received this gift and was always on the sidelines because of it. I didn't want to go to the alter every service either so then I sort of became "that brother" without the HG...
I've seen people who have received the Holy Ghost end up atheists... How the heck does that happen without people faking it.
Everyone seemed to get it within the first couple of tries... years later when I finally quit I started realizing this is just a bunch of fakers who want status within the church. They want to be pastors to control their own flock and they believe they speak in tongues... I can't believe "blah blah blah" is speaking in tongues.
These people are D Bags of the highest order.
Mike
I will say this. There are a lot of ntcc pastors who claim to have the Holy Ghost who are abusive jerks.
When I left NTCC I attended am Assembly God church. I eventually stopped attending it because of their willingness to fake the interpretation of tongues. Its great to be eager for spiritual things but keep it real. The greatest spiritual gift is love, which absent in NTCC for all of their tongue talking.
Eric
So am I the only one that thinks the vast majority of these people completely fake it? I just can't believe God would entrust them with such a gift.
Yes, the vast majority of them fake it if not all of them. Like Chief said, where are the healers? What about other gifts. Everyone speaks with tongues in the ntcc so I guess in the ntcc thats the only gift God gives. Its totally unrealistic and certainly illegitimate. I guess God doesn't remember how to give other gifts in the ntcc. Thousands of people who supposedly got the Holy Ghost have left the ntcc so what the ntcc teaches doesn't add up. Apparently them speaking in tongues didn't keep them. What Chief is saying makes perfect sense. I've heard someone pray in tongues one day and practically leave the next and never come back. So what made those people anymore saved than anyone else. According to the ntcc if you leave, you aren't right with God so if you aren't right with God why would God give you the Holy Ghost the day before? Thats a good question isn't it? Can anyone give me a reasonable answer.
Seven? The only baptisms I ever heard about there in 16 years were water baptism and the baptism of the holy ghost. Certain pastors came up with their own nutty theories, I guess.
In addition to speaking in tongues, there was the "feeling God's presence" thing, which I don't think everyone experienced. But those who did know what I'm talking about--a pleasant inner warmth, overflowing into the flesh and producing a tangible goosebumpy kind of sensation. This thing kept me around for a long time--I mean, if you can physically feel "God's presence" in the church, it's hard to just blow it off. I know I wasn't the only one; we were always going on about "feeling the holy ghost," usually in waves traveling downward from the head and neck. Surely I can get a witness here.
I never felt that before I had this holy ghost baptism experience, which happened to me in another church prior to entrapment in NTCC. It was powerful enough that I fell to the floor, (yeah, I realize most of that crap is fake, but there was no emotional buildup and it came like a lightning bolt from the sky, all while I stood there doubting it was real and thinking "these people are nuts"), and afterward these feelings would manifest themselves regularly, if less intensely, usually during church or while praying or singing, but sometimes spontaneously and unexpectedly. I was encouraged to speak in tongues and did blurt out some mumbo jumbo in response, but doubt that would have happened spontaneously. The weird thing is that I still experience this sensation, but now I can just trigger it in myself at will...just checked; yup, still works. Mostly on the right side, in my case.
I wondered about this for a long time, and some recent google-fu has unearthed something interesting. Google ASMR, or "autonomic sympathetic meridian response." You can also try headgasm, or braingasm. Read up on that and decide whether it sounds familiar. Multitudes of secular people have come out of the woodwork online reporting this, usually triggered by specific things (like Home Shopping Network or Bob Ross videos), and there are thousands of YouTube videos designed to induce these sensations in those susceptible (although the videos don't do squat for me). Research is ongoing to try and figure out exactly what's going on, but apparently this is a known phenomenon that has been exploited, whether consciously or not, by NTCC and other churches.
Anyone else get braingasms? What do you make of that? Is the whole "feeling the presence of God" thing just a neural symptom that makes one susceptible to manipulation by cynical exploiters? I mean, if people get the same thing from a YouTube vid, it kind of changes the discussion. I'm still puzzled about why I never experienced this thing until I got involved in church, and why I still do without any religious stimulation whatsoever. Almost none of the discussion about ASMR online revolves around God or religion; it's just regarded as an interesting and pleasurable feeling of unknown etiology. But the description exactly fits what we all regarded as "feeling the holy ghost." Very interesting.
Who knows Vic. What I do know is that the NTCC teaches that you need the Holy Ghost to have power to live for God and they equate that to remaining in the NTCC. Well as you well know most people don't remain in the NTCC but most people in the NTCC do claim they speak in tongues so therefore it simply doesn't add up.
I remember quite a few services where there would be no preaching because God would "take over". This usually manifested itself during the very beginning of the church service after the lifting of holy hands scripture was quoted. It seemed more often than not that we worked ourselves into a frenzy, but it seemed like a controlled fevor pitch preplanned and induced by the pastor of the church who didn't have a message or didn't feel like preaching. I'm not saying that God can't ever move people in such a way, but it seemed forced a lot of times.
When I look at this stuf now with a rational mind, I think about how many of the ministers who orchestrated such displays were not exhibiting the kind of scriptural characteristics of a Bishop, elder, deacon or even a common decent human being/Christian would exhibit.
Rudy would conduct many of these type of services and he was pure evil. People would be doing somersaults around the altar and falling out. Even the day of Pentecost seemed reserved in comparison to this. I used to get headaches from yelling and I wonder how many new comers were completely turned off by that.
Familiar with the sensation Vic. RW use to describe his feelingnof goose bumps as Gods presence and criticize anyone present who wasnt feeling it. It had the opposite effect on me. Im not naturally inclined to emotion or trusting feelings, so RWs carrying on was one of things that perked my BS radar. Ive felt the sensation listening to secular music, watching a movie or a decent commercial.
Eric
D&A wrote...
When I look at this stuff now with a rational mind, I think about how many of the ministers who orchestrated such displays were not exhibiting the kind of scriptural characteristics of a Bishop, elder, deacon or even a common decent human being/Christian would exhibit.
Chief wrote...
I like the decent human being part because if you toss all the titles out the window, it still should come down to that. Well unfortunately in the NTCC it usually didn't. Most NTCC "LEADERS" were anything but decent human beings. They were nasty, mean spirited, greedy and as often as not, some serious control freaks. I've known more decent human beings who were outward straight up real deal quote, "sinners" and made no bones about it.
Having said that, I did sometimes feel that I felt the presents of God but that almost always came when I was reading or quoting the scriptures. Especially when I was quoting scriptures. That's when I would get that feeling. Can I say for certain?? No. I can definitely say that I physically felt some kind of sensation during those times but I can't say for certain what it was. Not with certainty. It was definitely not tangible.
You see more now than ever, I'm definitely not overly superstitious. Far too many modern Christians are way too superstitious and of that I'm certain. "God told me this and God told me that". I hear that stuff more than I care to and the people who say that stuff are so often so fake. It's rather annoying. I don't particularly care for overly spiritual religious people. They really are annoying individuals.
The music sensation is called frisson, and is apparently distinct from ASRM. Research is ongoing to see just what it's about; they're doing brain scans and such to see what's happening neurologically. I can tell you that without this tangible sensation, there's little chance I'd have stuck around at all, but the association with "God's presence" made it almost impossible to leave and caused me to forsake all reason. I thought everybody was getting the same thing, but apparently not. My wife, for example, can't relate. But I know plenty of others who are quite familiar with it, and the NTCC leadership exploited the phenomenon to keep us in the boat. Braingasms, baby! They're a drug-free buzz. It's a thing...a YouTube search on ASMR returns over 5,000,000 results.
I tend to think it's your brain releasing similar chemicals/waves under a hypnotic trance. I think we convinced ourselves we were under greatness and were ginned up to thinking this was all real.
I've commented on Scientology and those people believe their leaders have super powers based on hearsay. Watching the movie going clear is like watching x members of NTCC. It's all the same cult like mind control crap.
You're not part of the club until you get the HG... So they fake it and blabber out loud. It's all fake.
I agree but again, in all sincerity I have to admit that I almost exclusively experienced this feeling when I either was reading the Bible or definitely quoting scriptures, especially if I was quoting a scripture to someone which usually was the case. I'm confident that I wasn't imagining things. Now, do I know what that feeling was??? NOPE, not for certain at all but I do "BELIEVE that it was spiritually related". I don't however believe that it had anything to do with the crooks in the NTCC. If it was spiritual, it would have been between me and the Lord. The NTCC is a scam and the NTCC leaders are egotistical narcissistic greedy crooks and chauvinists and scripture twisting false prophets. Leaving the NTCC was arguably the best move I've ever made in my life and I've been blessed directly as a result and I really believe that.
Now this feeling that Vic and I are referencing has nothing to do with speaking in tongues. I do firmly believe that these NTCCers are faking it whether they realize it or not. I believe that because virtually every other spiritual gift is absent in the NTCC as far as I know.
This org has less and less mysticism around it. Moses is dead, the walking bible has moved to San Diego, who are they to worship? Kekel? LOLOLOL... They'll break apart with no real leadership... Oh wait, they already are.
Yeah Chief, witnessing the bible to someone always brought it on strong, but like you say, it's not an NTCC-exclusive, as I was introduced to it well before getting sucked in. I just find it interesting that this thing isn't confined to spiritual endeavors, as multitudes get the same effect from a YouTube video. But it sure did keep me confused enough to stick around way longer than I should have.
God's presence is not something that is summoned. Jesus Christ dwells within a person( and church) when salvation occurs.
Ah, who knows. I don't think you really know that. I don't think Gods presence has conditions associated with it. When I say, I don't "think", the truth is there is one thing I know for certain. That is that I don't know and I'm certain that very few other people, (if any) know either. They say they know but in reality they don't. The ones who claim they know for sure are superstitious and fake. That much I've learned for certain. No one knows what God is up to from one minute to the next.
They don't know if he is present or absent. They don't know if he will heal or if he won't. They don't know if he will help or if he won't. The don't know if he will answer a specific prayer or he won't. They may have faith that he will but experience has taught me, people really don't have a clue. I've heard too many people make categorical claims where God is concerned only for their claims never to materialize. "Oh God is going to do this" and it never happens. "Oh God is going to heal you Brother" and the Brother dies and they explain that away. Many Christians are very fake and superstitious.
Perhaps people who come from a cult are not the best authority on such topics. I know I've seen my share of hypocrisy in the ntcc. Personally, and this is just me, there have been times in my life where prayers have been answered and to me it was undeniable that God had a part in things. But there also were times when I felt like I was in a spiritual drought. I believe the bible and I believe in God but there are things that I never will understand. I guess time will tell. I will say that I know the bible fairly well and the mess thats going on in the ntcc resembles the types of behavior that fall into the categories of wickedness and hypocrisy.
One tricky thing about NTCC is they usually take things only so far. So its easy to point at others more extreme than themselves like falling out, etc.
Its the parts of truth that they retain that makes them so dangerous. If they were void of truth nonenof us would have been duped.
Eric
I've seen people in the ntccgo on and on about how much they live God and how they can't wait to shout and dance on the streets of gold. I've seen them run circles around the sanctuary of the church and dance with all their might. The same bunch will point their finger at a brother and condemn them to hell for not paying tithe. Being a member of this group makes me feel unqualified to be an expert on what the right way is but my involvement in this cult does make me think that I know what the wrong way is. My personal opinion is that if a person wants to go to heaven, they should try to live their lives opposite of the way that the ntcc teaches, or better yet, opposite of how they live.
So true. Do you want to know what to trust? Trust this. You want to know how to live for God? Take a good look at the ntcc leadership. Look real close. Study their ways. Look at the Kekels and Olson. DON'T LIVE LIKE THEM and you'll be on the right track!!! Remember this scripture.
1Tim 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith
Every ntcc pastor has erred from the faith. People who follow their doctrine have erred from the faith.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked
This my friends is the rich poor church. This is the ntcc. If you believe that getting rich off your congregation is what God wants, you have erred from the faith and you are spiritually blind!!!
Jacob Wetterling has been found...
A perv destroyed his life and his family's. Just like these bastards at this cult have been doing since they've been founded by that adulterer.
Oh man... So true...
I've met people who said they have the HGB and now they're athiests... How is that possible?
anyone know what happened to Don and Ange? That was abrupt.
I was thinking the same about their departure, quite rushed.
They probably just got fed up of having to deal with the pressure of putting new stuff out there and the secrecy that is still so much a part of ntcc and those that exit the church.
Happy trails to them!
Yeah, I guess if they're putting the NTCC in their rear view mirror maybe I should start looking at ways to do the same. I'm sick of them.
Just tired of blogging. That's it. Too many people want to be spoon fed info but not enough dedicated contributors. Not enough people who are willing to put a name behind their testimonies. The NTCC sucks, always has and always will. Kekel and his wife are narcissistic creeps, Olson is a complete buffoon, the remaining faithful (who have been there for over ten years) are so ridiculously brainwashed, that it's mind-boggling. So it is what it is. We all got a life. Anyone who spends at least one hour reading this blog who has a functional brain, and an open mind, who has one small bit of common sense and logic, would leave the NTCC faster than you can say the word CROOK.
So people like me who've dedicated years to this blog and ones like it, come to the glaring conclusion that this world is chalk full of real deal suckers. These suckers and blind followers absolutely need someone to follow and if it's not some control freak in the NTCC, they'll find some other con artist to follow. That's just the way it is. That's why the doors of some many churches from the Catholics, to the JWs to the Mormons, to the 7th Day Dudes all remain open and the NTCC is ABSOLUTELY NOT EXCEPTION. Suckers need someone to lead them around on a leash and you can't change that. So, if you want to comment here have at it and if it's a good comment then I'll reply but I got a life that I'm really enjoying outside this blog and Don and Ange came to the same conclusion.
Jeff AKA Chief
Chief, believe you me I appreciate bloggers and I understand you guys have a life... I just want people to go into this battle with me.
Your conclusion is accurate... Suckers are just always going to be suckers. Luckily I could only take a few years of it.
I think the biggest reason you and D/A were important is you guys had both experiences and contacts that you guys could draw from. I don't, I could go to a conference and no one would know me or remember me... I was one of those guys.
It was only because of the blogs that I was able to move on...
Mike
Man I appreciate that Mike. I know this blog has been instrumental with compelling people to leave the NTCC and I get comfort from that fact. It wouldn't be so cumbersome of more people posted topics of their own. Even if it meant that I had to repost them on the cover of the blog. Generally that's not been the case.
It's been a lot of WORK on my part specifically where this blog is concerned. Not only that, the approach some have taken has done as much damage to the cause as good certainly in some cases. This whole blogging thing was pretty exciting about 8-10 years ago when a good size bunch of the old timers decided to exodus around the same time frame. Well those "glory days" have come and gone. FACTnet has gone. The Pelfreys blog came and went. This blog had it's hay day and then fizzled out when I got tired of constantly drumming up new topics, (most of which had already been addressed).
So all the great blogging stuff has sort of died away but the crooked leaders in the NTCC are still going strong which is the most frustrating part that frankly I don't care to be reminded of that often. That's what this blog does, remind me of that harsh reality. Hillary Clinton and Mike Kekel have a lot in common. They are both crooks who've figured out how to operate within an extremely corrupt system above the law.
Having said that people can always post here if they desire without moderation, (for the most part).
Chief
Hey, just found out that a HOP church in NC split with Denis, who now sounds even more crazy than ever. I'd like to see both churches end their reign of terror.
That's no surprise. Denis should be in jail right along with MK and JO. These guys are menaces to society.
Chief I know what your intention is for this blog and I know you like to focus on the NTCC but I am curious as to the state of HOPP. I tend to link the two in terms of wanting failure for both.
Just delete this if it's not something you want to address.
Thanks Chief.
HOPP stinks. I just don't know that much about it. I knew certain things about it when it first got off the ground, but other than a few horror stories from concerned family members of it's young cult converts, I don't know much.
I know that Denis was the same as Davis because he basically came out and told me as much over a phone conversation after the split. From Davis, Denis learned the art of scamming money from people in every imaginable way possible. He told me he learned from Davis. He and Barnes were the same way. They both knew they had to break away from the NTCC if they were ever to get a real piece of the money pie. Two scam artists plain and simple. So is Kekel, Olson and many other NTCC leaders. They were all taught to be. Kinson, Jones and the list goes on. Hucksters. Real con artists. HOPP is the NTCC. Just a break away; no more no less. Same with Ashmore, same with Barnes, same with Denis. Just a mutation of the NTCC. All these guys are abusive, divisive, conniving dick heads.
There is a God... Make the NTCC great again...
The NTCC never was great. For the record. The NTCC has ALWAYS been a scam. Davis was a scam so therefor his organization was too. Just saying the name "Jesus" doesn't make you right with God or anyone else for that matter.
Yeah, I think we were duped from the beginning. There's zero evidence that RWD ever had any genuine spirituality. He appears to be a con man who just switched to the Jesus brand of snake oil. Religion is a dream scam for his type; you don't have to tie up a penny in inventory. Just collect money by threatening people with damnation and making empty promises that never materialize. Simple and very effective against sincere people who are willing to sacrifice all for "the Lord."
I just have to wonder what kind of human being can do all those things he did with no mercy what so ever. Eventually you'd think an inventory of your humanity would be taken to even the cruelest of people.
This goes back to those threads in which he's described as a sociopath. That's the only thing that could explain it in my mind.
It doesn't appear that Adolf Hitler ever took an inventory of his humanity. Jeffery Dahmer? I could go on and on but do you get my point? This world is "FULL" of merciless people. Nothing new there. I was all about money, power and control with Davis. No more no less. He was a control freak. There was no shortage of control freaks in this world either. These are people who are obsessed with being in control of other people and not only that but Davis was obsessed with being in control of their money. If you control the people you can control their money and Davis figured that out quite well and so did Denis, Barnes and Ashmore.
Jones wouldn't even continue a so called "Revival" at Mayers church in Atlanta because Mayers wouldn't provide him monetary support and I know that for a fact because Jones told me so. So what about the lost souls? Without monetary support, L.D. Jones wasn't going preach salvation in Atlanta that year. And look, I know it takes money to live but Jones didn't need it to live just like the Apostle Paul didn't need it from the Corinthian church while he was there and he stayed there for 1 1/2 years. The NTCC lies about that too when they say that 1 Cor 16:2 deals with paying tithes. It had NOTHING to do with that. Paul was taking up a collection of money to bring back to Jerusalem to give as a free will offering to the "POOR" Saints. I've written this probably 50 times but NTCCers are too naive to read it for themselves. That alone and the fact that the NTCC hucksters use 1 Cor 16:2 in their doctrinal statement to justify paying tithes would have me question tithing altogether if I had a brain what actually worked for a change.
The people you name are hopefully an aberration. Few and far between. Was Davis a Hitler/Dahmer? I guess that's what I'm getting at. How evil and depraved was he? Was he that far gone?
Did his program then "reprogram" many people into that same merciless state of mind? I've had pastors in the org who by everything I saw were sweet people whom were misguided on several things. They weren't people who lost the ability to have compassion though.
I don't know...
There are two classes within NTCC: predator and prey. As in most ecosystems, the prey far outnumber the predators. Most NTCC members and ministers are just duped victims and meat for the predators, who ruthlessly ascend the ladder and wind up in leadership roles. There's always room at the top for another asshole!
Davis was an aberration. And yes Davis was a Hitler but just on a much smaller scale. A straight control freak who rolled right over anyone who opposed him.
I met Davis 3 times while attending a church in Tennessee. I had the impression he was a very nice guy. A man of faith if you will.
There was one time I cracked a lame joke and he jumped down my throat before I knew what hit me.
I probably should have known from the drastic change in temperament that something was amiss especially since it was a harmless joke.
Again, I just don't know what I saw in these people that made me stay for so long.
RWD liked to keep people off balance by treating them in strange ways. It was a control mechanism; he would play head games and observe the response. Once he invited a bunch of us new students up to his house in Webster Grove, Missouri. I was sitting in the living room with him and some other people, and to make conversation, I said "so I hear you're from North Carolina." He just turned his head and stared at me; made no reply. It was weird and had the intended effect of intimidating me. He did shit like that all the time.
Indeed he did. I saw him do the same in the serviceman's home to pastors. He had them on the edge for sure.
Happy thanksgiving all... Hope your weekend was excellent!
Hi all, I really appreciate the blogs out there. My wife and I were in NTCC for many years and are still recovering from the damages done. I was in Korea the same time with Don. I still get a visit every now and then from old pastors. I thought we were completely exiled. Every time we contacted a brother or sister, they were told not to fellowship with us. It's good to read the testimonies of those that have left and kept the faith. Interesting subject of the HG. I was just in a bible study 2 weeks ago that was focused in Acts. Thanks again for the encouraging posts..
Steve Hirthler
They ain't coming to visit me. They know I'd let them know how I feel about their crooked NTCC. They know Kekel is a crook who's always lived according to a different set of standards. Anyone who can't see that is a dummy. And I've never even been to Graham and that's clear as can be.
Good luck; glad you escaped. It took quite awhile to regain some equilibrium after the emotional holocaust that is NTCC, and there will always be scars...but life without NTCC is fantastic.
No doubt Vic. Fantastic indeed. Well Vic. This whole blogging thing seems to have run it's course. We fought a good fight.
The NTCC outlasted us. Do you think? I figured this a few years ago. You ain't going to beat a religious huckster. Not very often anyway. The suckers will always be lined up at the door just itching to throw their money into the offering plate. Buying their way to heaven.
Chief, if the JWs and Mormons can make it past a hundred years, there's not much doubt NTCC can slide right along with them. It's mind control, and the people trapped in it are absolutely immune to reason and evidence. We already knew that, because we were the same way.
There's a sucker born every minute and the org will snag their share. But the blogs aren't for naught; they've helped those who already started to smell something fishy. I think I'd have been able to escape much sooner if I hadn't been living in an information vacuum. And I have to say, it's helped me to ventilate all the crap they put me through...very therapeutic.
Now they've morphed into some disgusting banal feel-good religion. That never appealed to me; back in the day we wanted to lay our lives down and sacrifice everything. Too bad it was for ripoff artists, even though we thought we were doing it for the Lord. I look at their fake web pages now and it just makes me want to puke. At least we could believe that we were different and elite, but people might as well just follow Joel Osteen or Kenneth Copeland if they're going to be phony anyhow. What a trip!
The Big Vic wrote...
It's mind control, and the people trapped in it are absolutely immune to reason and evidence. We already knew that, because we were the same way.
Chief replied....
No truer words have ever been spoken, (or in this case written). They are absolutely immune. Evidence means nothing to them. Logic? Out the window. Reason? In the toilet. Hey, I'm actually glad we had those crazy man made rules back in the day. If we were there now, it might just be soft enough for us to have gotten hooked for life. We saw enough obvious shit to make it plain that escape evade was in order.
Yeah, I'm pretty philosophical about it. The org served its purpose--it taught me how not to be. Wish I'd have been astute enough to figure it out some quicker and easier way, but better late than never.
Same here. Churches like that actually aren't that uncommon. Just different variations. I don't deal with them. I know of one right here in Georgia. Not NTCC but very similar. Control, control, control. That's what it's all about. Man made rules and blatant misinterpretations of the Bible. Very NTCCesque. This particular church goes after a lot of young folks as well. Same stuff different name. Once your eyes are open you can see right through them so easily.
Oh yeah, I've met lots of people that have been through the exact same BS. Have you seen any of the episodes of ex-Scientologist Leah Remini's expose on A&E?:
http://www.aetv.com/shows/leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath
I just watched the first two episodes and had major NTCC flashbacks. These control freaks are all the same. L Ron was just better at it than R Dub. He thought he was a big shot, but he was just a mediocre, pathetic little narcissist. The world got a little better when he croaked.
Better believe the world got better. Just like it got better when Hitler bought the bullet. An NTCC pastor's wife told me one time after I'd left the NTCC, "Pastor Davis is human, he's admitted he made mistakes and he apologized". Hogwash. He didn't just, "make mistakes". He did stuff deliberately and with intent and he totally ruined and did considerable damage to MANY lives. Public enemy number 1. Same with the Kekels. Same with Olson. Same with all the rest of the remaining old timers who's seen and known about the same stuff that we witnessed. Public enemy.
Yeah, it's all fake. They're not one bit sorry and are still enjoying the ill-gotten gains they swindled from others. We thought they were "men of God," but they're just two-bit crooks.
Two Bit Crooks and heck no they ain't sorry. They are sorry figuratively but not literately. And you know whats funny Vic? You and I have been calling them Two Bit Swindlers for about a decade now and lightning hasn't struck us yet. In fact to the contrary. I've had more good fortune than I could have possibly dreamed of. You want to talk about, "opening up the windows of heaven and pouring out a blessing"? Dude, since I left the NTCC more inexplainable stuff has taken place in my life then I could have dreamed of. I'm not superstitious either but it sure does seem that a power higher than I has worked favorably in my behalf and I'm not exaggerating or kidding one bit. Things just seem to work out for me and have been ever since I left the NTCC. And it's not just because I make better decisions because I do. Doors just seem to open and I'm not kidding.
So forget about those swindling, two bit crooks and hucksters. Life is a hell of a lot better without their meddling. If I kept following their sorry plan, Kekel would have control of my bank account and he'd be preaching messages pointed at me talking about why he's blessed and I'm not. Hell yeah he's "blessed" if that's what you want to call it. We were all giving him our hard earned money. It don't take a rocket scientist to figure that out now. Then every time you turned around he'd preach another message about why we were broke and he wasn't. I can't believe we bought off on that crap. Makes you feel kind of stupid but guess what. Those days are over.
Going Clear was excellent on C of S...
I'll watch Leah Remini's since you recommended it.
Mike
A&E's doing a whole season on Scientology...I hear Katie Holmes is writing a tell-all, too. But you know what? Scientology will just roll right along, unfortunately, just like the org.
Chief, I'm in the same boat--the more I oppose NTCC, the better life gets. I guess the Devil's just blessing us, huh? My life is orders of magnitude better than it was the day I woke up and shook the cult dust off my feet. I don't expect to end up as rich as the upper echelons of NTCC, but at least I didn't rip people off to get mine.
Vic, I think NTCC is in it's last days. I think Scientology has been severely crippled over the last several years to the point it's considered a bunch of crazies.
This of course is just me being an optimist. Last days could end up meaning 10 years. The key is to cut off incoming people to it's "seminary" and that's where we've been most effective.
Mike
Mike, I hope you're right. But it's astonishing that they persist despite all the negative information easily available online. Mormonism and the JWs continue right along too, and they've been exposed for decades. Suckers gonna suck...
I hope you are right Mike but I won't be holding my breath. I'll give the NTCC another 200 years at least. Heck, it might last as long as the earth. Dude, these crooked churches are hard to shut down. Too much government protection.
I think the biggest threat to our victory is how well the finances have been "taken care of" over the good years. If they've invested correctly (like the Mormans) there is no telling how long before they are officially gone.
Right now I'll take the class size as the biggest motivator to continue pushing the idea they can be defeated. I've heard class sizes used to be 5 times what it is now (I never went so I don't know).
So contracting will be their only short term option and from what I've read about their website having churches on their locator that no longer exist I'm right about this.
Aside from this small victory if that's what it is I revel in knowing that the higher ups know their members read this site and can get info on them. Eventually you have to take your blinders off and realize that we're not just making this crap up. There was a reason for 2 major splits, a super high attrition rate, no real love felt on any level... Eventually reason will take over so long as evil ambition hasn't consumed them.
Mike
I'm sure the elites will finish draining the coffers before the thing goes TU.
Happy New Year 2017!
Hello to all who will read this Blogpost. As of this day January 2, 2017 I am disassociating myself from this Blog. Many of you who are friends on my Facebook, have seen my posts recently; I've posted about the Lord calling me into the ministry full-time. As a godly woman who is in total obedience to the Lord, I cannot be part of this blog nor make any more statements concerning the Organization of New Testament Christian Churches of America in Graham, WA..
Before God, I cannot say I LOVE HIM WITH ALL MY HEART and yet harbor ill feelings towards people who have hurt many; causing many to lose faith in the Church (generally speaking). God has chosen to save, heal, enpower us by His Holy Spirit. But because of the actions of many a burden/yoke has been placed around the neck of many. I have written posts that were derogatory and things I experienced myself. Because of God's mercy and forgiveness, I am healed. I must extend that same mercy to others, Greg asked me a question. He asked "so you mean you could sit down and talk to them like friend"!? I said "yes, I could" in all honesty! God forgave me, shouldn't I forgive others? I'm not the naieve person I was 8yrs. ago. I know who I am in God, and will not allow myself to be manipulated. I have matured and I have found my place where God wants me. Many of you will disagree and will probably castigate me. But I know what God is requiring of me.
Many are seeking vengence and wanting the dismantling of N.T.C.C, by your own powers you've not been able to do it. Only when God is ready, it will happen. If there is no repentance, God will be the one to dismantle the Organization. No person can take the credit except the Lord.
The only solution is to allow God to heal your wounds and pick you up. The enemy seeks to keep you bound up internally with anger and bitterness over allowing yourself to be manipulated for years. Believe me the wheels of justice will turn sure, God doesn't take lightly the harming of His people. Allow God to do his job and get back to the place where the Lord wants to use you. God can't use us when we're filled with the emotions/ works of the flesh.
The Lord gave me this thought the other day when Greg asked me the question "after all they've done could you sit down and talk with them"? My reply to him was "how long are you gonna wear that diaper full of poop! You've been wearing it for so long it's eating your flesh and you've become accustomed to it. Don't you know it stinks!
I've tried to talk to him, but you can't make people change. I tried to dismantle this Blog "Deb's Witness" but Greg will not allow it. So I've asked him to remove my name, I will not be part of this anymore.
To all of N.T.C.C Leaders, I forgive you for all the things that transpired during my 32 years in the Church this includes the General Board Members and their wives. Forgive me for the things I've written about you that were not lies nor embellished in any way. I wrote them with anger seeking vengeance, of which I now am free and therefore not a prisoner anymore. I praise God for my calling to which I have given God 100% all of me. I hold nothing back, exposing myself to ridicule and fault finding. But this not my problem I will let God be my defender. I've written this as a testimony to God's healing power and forgiveness.
To God be the Glory!
Deborah Shunk
Happy New Year 2017!
Hello to all who will read this Blogpost. As of this day January 2, 2017 I am disassociating myself from this Blog. Many of you who are friends on my Facebook, have seen my posts recently; I've posted about the Lord calling me into the ministry full-time. As a godly woman who is in total obedience to the Lord, I cannot be part of this blog nor make any more statements concerning the Organization of New Testament Christian Churches of America in Graham, WA..
Before God, I cannot say I LOVE HIM WITH ALL MY HEART and yet harbor ill feelings towards people who have hurt many; causing many to lose faith in the Church (generally speaking). God has chosen to save, heal, enpower us by His Holy Spirit. But because of the actions of many a burden/yoke has been placed around the neck of many. I have written posts that were derogatory and things I experienced myself. Because of God's mercy and forgiveness, I am healed. I must extend that same mercy to others, Greg asked me a question. He asked "so you mean you could sit down and talk to them like friend"!? I said "yes, I could" in all honesty! God forgave me, shouldn't I forgive others? I'm not the naieve person I was 8yrs. ago. I know who I am in God, and will not allow myself to be manipulated. I have matured and I have found my place where God wants me. Many of you will disagree and will probably castigate me. But I know what God is requiring of me.
Many are seeking vengence and wanting the dismantling of N.T.C.C, by your own powers you've not been able to do it. Only when God is ready, it will happen. If there is no repentance, God will be the one to dismantle the Organization. No person can take the credit except the Lord.
The only solution is to allow God to heal your wounds and pick you up. The enemy seeks to keep you bound up internally with anger and bitterness over allowing yourself to be manipulated for years. Believe me the wheels of justice will turn sure, God doesn't take lightly the harming of His people. Allow God to do his job and get back to the place where the Lord wants to use you. God can't use us when we're filled with the emotions/ works of the flesh.
The Lord gave me this thought the other day when Greg asked me the question "after all they've done could you sit down and talk with them"? My reply to him was "how long are you gonna wear that diaper full of poop! You've been wearing it for so long it's eating your flesh and you've become accustomed to it. Don't you know it stinks!
I've tried to talk to him, but you can't make people change. I tried to dismantle this Blog "Deb's Witness" but Greg will not allow it. So I've asked him to remove my name, I will not be part of this anymore.
To all of N.T.C.C Leaders, I forgive you for all the things that transpired during my 32 years in the Church this includes the General Board Members and their wives. Forgive me for the things I've written about you that were not lies nor embellished in any way. I wrote them with anger seeking vengeance, of which I now am free and therefore not a prisoner anymore. I praise God for my calling to which I have given God 100% all of me. I hold nothing back, exposing myself to ridicule and fault finding. But this not my problem I will let God be my defender. I've written this as a testimony to God's healing power and forgiveness.
To God be the Glory!
Deborah Shunk
Cool Deborah. Obviously you are absolutely free to take the high road and I can understand your approach because I understand how your mind is operating. Just remember this: I'm sure you've read the gospels. Of this fact, there is absolutely no doubt. Was Jesus filled with bitterness and anger because he not only allowed but advocated his statements about the Scribes and Pharisees to be chronicled historically forever???
Here are a few of Jesus' statements. You've preached, so now I will.
Mk 12:38 And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,
Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Mat 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Mat 23:16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
Mat 23:17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
Now Deborah, I suppose Jesus needs to move on with all that rhetoric? Was Jesus, (as you put it) harboring ill feelings toward the Scribes and Pharisees because he has clearly allowed these statements that "HE" made to be read by Christians for the last 2000 YEARS??? And Greg is supposed to take your blog down that's only been up for the last 7 years or so if that??? So Jesus got it all wrong when he decided to warn good folks against dealing with the religious hypocrites of his day who are no different than the NTCCers of our day??? Are you serious. You've become so religious that you've forgotten about the Gospels and Jesus' very statements. You most certainly have. So according to your religious beliefs the very God you serve, (specifically Jesus) has it all wrong and he needs to make up with the Scribes and Pharisees and sit down and have dinner with them!! He also needs to erase all his statements in the Gospels that he allowed to be written about the Scribes and Pharisees just like Greg needs to take down your blog. You better get Jesus straighted out Deborah.
Jesus called them "FOOLS". So according to your religion sure enough Jesus got that wrong. Deborah I get why you feel the way you do but in this case you are allowing some degree of self righteousness to cloud your judgment. You don't have to speak out against the NTCC just like everyone in Jesus' day didn't speak out about the Scribes and Pharisees but that didn't make Jesus wrong for doing it and it doesn't make Greg or myself wrong for speaking out against the SORRY GREEDY Chauvinistic False Prophets who use abuse and take advantage of NTCCers just like you previously admitted that they did to YOU!!!!! You can't take your statements away and you shouldn't feel guilty for making them as long as they were the truth which I know they were and you've admitted as such.
Chief
To all the NTCC leaders: Deborah said that she forgives you. So guess what that means? You did her wrong which is why see feels the need to forgive you. She is also doing it because she is worried that if she doesn't forgive you, God won't forgive her when she dies. Well my conscience doesn't work that way because it's the blood of Jesus that saves a Christian not a Christian running around forgiving everyone who did them wrong like you sorry NTCC Leaders have done not only to Deborah but thousands of others you've abused and deliberately taken advantage of. And you've done this because you are greedy and dishonest and abusive. You've harbored sex offenders, covered up RWD dastardly deeds, covered up Kekel's crookedness, and ruined the lives of so many children and women that it's impossible to even count or number the people who's lives you've completely messed up. You've allowed G Kekel to live a life that you for decades preached against and you've held thousands of other children to a completely different standard and anyone with a functional brain can see that clearly.
So guess what NTCC and Deborah; I'm calling out the crooked NTCC leaders just like Jesus called out the Scribes and Pharisees and I have no problem doing it. Forgiveness has nothing to do with calling a crook a crook and a hypocrite and hypocrite. Deborah, you've just enabled the Scribes, Pharisees and Crooked NTCC leaders and Jesus didn't make a practice of that and neither will I. God hasn't shut down the churches of the JW's, Catholics, 7th Day dudes, Mormons etc either. So the world should just let God handle everything, sit back and have a coke and a smile with some hypocrites so they can prove to God they've forgiven them??? Whatever. NTCC leaders are crooks, bottom line, plain and simple and I'm saying it just like it is just like your Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, (Deborah) called out the Scribes and Pharisees. Jesus isn't throwing out the Gospels and I'm not shutting down this blog. Jesus cared enough about good folks to take the time to warn them about the dangers of dealing with Religious hypocrites like the Pharisees, Scribes and NTCCers. And guess what, I care enough to do the same thing and I'm not apologizing for doing it.
Chief
Happy New Year indeed! As long as NTCC continues their evil ways, I'm keeping on the firing line. Since it's a new year, it's a good opportunity to reiterate my continued opposition to the group of swindlers and users that comprise the organization we fled. Others may feel the liberty to permit them to operate unopposed, but I think I owe it to other potential victims to at least sound an alarm. So be warned, ye who are unfamiliar with this abusive cult; NTCC isn't at all what it claims. After the love-bombing has you all softened up, they'll get their hooks in you and then you might as well be a Scientologist signing that billion year contract. You'll be used and abused just as long as you let them do it, so do yourself (and especially your kids, if you have any) a giant favor and cut them off now. They are indeed the modern incarnation of the ancient Pharisees, and deserve the same attitude from us that Jesus showed toward those vipers and whited sepulchres of his day. Don't be deceived--flee!
I wish I would have been around during the years of Factnet. I heard there were fireworks back then.
I couldn't get away with a blog because I was never an insider and don't get info like D/A did.
Either way it seems to be intellectually dishonest to act like it's the high road to ignore them and not dime them out. Maybe you can forgive them but you have a responsibility to warn others. It sounds like someone is drinking the cool aid when they get all spiritual about a blog that wants to bring about the end of a corrupt org.
I might agree that it will be God who should get the credit when they finally crumble but he aint gonna move the mountain for us.
It just sounds too much like NTCC philosophy to forgive and move on... I'm not convinced.
Mike
FACTNet was awesome because it was the first real internet exposure NTCC got, and people just poured out of the woodwork to unburden themselves of all the org-imposed angst they'd been carrying around in the years after they left. It was exhilarating to finally be able to have a pulpit of one's own from which to lob firebombs back at the assholes who had abused and mistreated us. And back then, the org was so divorced from reality and clueless about public perceptions that they didn't hesitate to come online and rebuke us, which only validated our assertions about their hateful nature and control-freak mentality. It probably would have continued to be the premier venue, but unfortunately it was moved to a different software platform that was clunky and unintuitive, and it died on the vine. That spurred the rise of the blogs, with Tracy Pelfrey leading the way, and plenty more was shared with the world. Now the org is far more cagey and they're reluctant to venture into any public forum because they know how it backfires on them. All we get now is the occasional anonymous brainwashed suckup. Ah, the good old days! Still, it's worthwhile to broadcast how screwed up this outfit is, because people do Google things nowadays and it helps to have some truth lying around for them to digest.
The Jesus of the bible wouldn't expect anyone to ignore or forget the actions of the New Pharisees, and warning others of spiritual danger is a valid form of ministry.
FACTNet was great. That's where I got my first dose of reality. It was impossible for me to deny and ignore the "facts", no pun intended. I always enjoyed Vic's posts because he was real and he told it like it was. I could relate to that. The facts couldn't be denied; (at least not if you thought logically and rationally and used the brain that God gave you). I know what I witnessed and no one could change my mind about that. If I were weak minded, then I could have easily continued to ignore the obvious. The obvious being the abusive, dishonest, conniving ways of the NTCC leadership. It was impossible for me do ignore and deny the obvious double standards that were clearly practiced by the Kekels most noticeably concerning Grant's upbringing.
Yes FACTNet was great because it was our pulpit and the sorry NTCC leadership couldn't stop us from blasting them for a change. And they certainly can't stop me here and they won't. Kekel is a complete double standard hypocrite. Olson is a suckup enabling liar and a complete piece of trash who has single handedly covered up more NTCC dirt than could possibly been done by a bulldozer.
Is there a place to find old factnet stuff?
Yes,
http://web.archive.org/web/20080403105900/http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/15577.html?1141982987
this was pulled from debs blog.
Thanks so much, I'm reading everything. What incredible info... I wonder where some of these people went and how they're getting along now. I wish them the best for sure.
Pelfrey seems like the big player in all of the factnet stuff.
Wonder what that guy is up to...
Doing his own thing. He and his wife went separate ways. It happens. Happens in the NTCC all the time. Happens out of the NTCC all the time. I've seen people who call themselves "Christian" get divorced as frequently as people who don't go to church at all. So much for NTCCs match making. It's a bunch of trash.
Deborah Shrunk,
I understand you wanting to forgive and move on. I fully respect that but please don't make the mistake that far too many Christians make.
TO FORGIVE AS CHRIST HAS DONE, DOES NOT MEAN THE TRANSGRESSOR IS UNACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR TRANSGRESSIONS AGAINST PERSON, BEING OR SOCIETY.
The forgive and silence forever more mindset is why there are churches like NTCC and predators flourish within the ranks of Christianity.
Silence and being held unaccountable is the main tactic predators use against their victims. This fallacy is why the cycle of abuse continues and is NOT what Christ taught.
Churches like NTCC and it's leadership commit the worse type of sin- spiritual genocide. Our spirits are the very essence of our being.
You have no reason to feel guilt by the truths you have spoken. As Chief said, you have warned others as Christ warned the world over 2,000 years ago and His words will continue to be a warning for milleniums to come.
Your blog has been a significant part of my spiritual healing as have all the others. Without the blogs, I would never had healed completely.
Without them, I certainly would NEVER have come to the complete forgiveness that I have for the predators of NTCC and those that harmed me.
By forgiving I can once again love the eternal part of their being but at the same time I can despise their evil actions. Forgiving also means those predators no longer have control over my mind or my spirit.
My forgiveness towards them does not abdicate their accountablility for their transgressions. Without accountability they will continue their cycle of abuse and they will have little to no motivation to stop.
Until they stop their ways, repent, take full accountability and ask for forgiveness from all they have transgressed, they are not walking in Christ. They feel no remorse nor are they Christians.
If I were to be completely silent, as churches and people that abuse desire, I might as well be doing the abuse myself. My silence is tacit approval of their evil.
Deborah, let your spirit soar with Christ but please don't let yourself be shackled by those that Christ warned the world about.
Continue to call out the hypocrites, as Christ did, by keeping up your blog. Be that beacon on the hill illuminating the darkness so that others can find the Light.
I wish you the best,
FreeBird
Freebird wrote...
TO FORGIVE AS CHRIST HAS DONE, DOES NOT MEAN THE TRANSGRESSOR IS UNACCOUNTABLE FOR
Chief wrote...
That is very good. I like that outlook and agree totally.
Did anyone else completely lose their faith?
I have yet to even try and recover some semblance of a Christian faith. I look at it all as a fraud.
Just curious...
Just curious wrote...
Did anyone else completely lose their faith?
Chief wrote...
Is this a serious question? You may actually be sincere. That is possible but of course I don't know because I don't know who "just curious" is. This could also be some NTCC fault finder trying to prove that everybody who leave the NTCC simply "stops serving GAWD". I definitely wouldn't put it past a Kekel to post a question like this so he can use the answers in his next sermon as a means to further brain wash his blind followers. "See I told you brethren. When people leave the NTCC they completely lose their faith".
Point taken...
I guess it's just I have no desire to go to church, read the bible... I'm very jaded about "Religion".
My apologies if you think I'm a current NTCCer.
I simply can't get back into the "grove" of sorts.
I was being very sincere and from what I've seen most have remained faithful (Don/Ange and the like) I was wondering if anyone pretty much completely went the other way.
"Did anyone else completely lose their faith?"
No! Thats one thing they can't take from me!
I'm sure some people went the other way. That's a heck of a lot better than attending one single brainwashing session from the ntcc bloviators. NTCC services serve two functions. Brainwash and control people and "All Christians pay tithe and happily give in the offering". Control/Brainwash & Money. PERIOD.
If you are fighting to find a peace and want to still read the Bible, I highly suggest ONLY reading Christ's words for one year. By doing so, it helps you shed man made rules and requirement.
Start your theology with Christ and no one else. Dwell on his love, and learn the spiritual meaning of his words.
For me I attended no other church for three years. It was just me, my NASB, and Jesus. The freedom of Christ taught me unconditional love that also requires transgressors to be legally accountable for their wrongs.
I also got therapy to help me deprogram for all the hate and distinguish the voice of God vs. The voice of man.
I never lost my faith but of those that did, I cannot blame them or condemn them. That is what this cult does- it destroys one's spirit.
Yes indeed but it does a whole lot more than destroy faith and spirit. It destroy's lives by bankrupting people and keeping them in a constant state of poverty. It ruins childhoods. It suppresses women and holds them back while making them completely reliant upon men and in many cases some SORRY men. It psychologically impairs the minds of many. It's like the story of Robin Hood. Steal from the poor and give to the rich.
I guess the fight is over
Someone else has to step up to the plate. This blogging is work and I'm not getting paid for it like the Kekels are getting paid by the mindless. I've come to the realization that religious crooks aren't going anywhere any time soon so why bother. Just keep feeding the Kekels your hard earned cash and you'll surely make it to heaven. Haha. What a joke. Just follow Grant to a Catholic School. That's surely your ticket to heaven. If you believe that I got some beach front property in the Yukon where you can get a nice sun tan. Suckers never learn.
Does anyone know of a college that will take our 'seminary diploma' and convert it into a associates or bachelors degree? Or a school that will at least give some credit towards one of those two degrees and then maybe I have to take a few extra classes?
An NTCC seminary diploma ain't worth a used square of TP that I already wiped my butt with. It means nothing where real deal legitimate college credits are concerned. At least that's the way it was the last I knew. Maybe changed but I doubt it. By the way, I noticed you used the word "our". I'm assuming you are an NTCS grad?
Not only that, the NTCS is a bunch of brainwashing, indoctrination, mind boggling, cult cultivating garbage. It's not designed to teach you about God, it's designed to indoctrinate you into their system and flip your brain around so much that they have total control of you and of course your money and most definitely your family if you have one. They brainwash you PLAIN AND SIMPLE, BOTTOM LINE, END OF STORY.
No, none of your credits will transfer to an accreditated college or university.
That is the problem with attending non accredited colleges. You will have to start from square one.
That is the main reason Grant went to accreditted grammar and university schools.
Free Bird said...
That is the problem with attending non accredited colleges.
Chief said...
No, (and not to be disagreeable) that's the problem with going to the NTCS. I don't even know of other non accredited quote "colleges". Not only that, I wouldn't even consider the NTCS a college. It's just a bunch of hocus pocus back woods fly by night mumbo jumbo. Again, it's sole purpose is to brainwash it's participants. The NTCC cult leaders use it to get you to think like them. Get you trained to be like them. Get you indoctrinated. Get you to submit to THEIR WILL and THEIR WAYS and THEIR WAY OF THINKING and THEIR PLAN. And their plan is to get your money, time and loyalty and get complete and total control of your life and your every move.
Thought some woukd find it interesting that there is an anti House of Prayer movement. They are protesting the conference this weekend in Hinseville. Pretty cool. Here is a website with links to protest videos on Facebook. http://www.hopcc.com/
Eric
I think that's outstanding. House of Prayer sucks. Just like the NTCC. Sucks. Two peas from the same pod. Nothing but a con game from both. Denis learned from one of the best con artists in history. Old RWD.
By the way, thanks for the update. It's nice that is blog isn't "totally" dead. About as close as you can get. It's all good though. I certainly pulled my weight. Got the word out and it was received by anyone with at least a marginally functional brain. That's more than often not the case with people in the NTCC. The NTCC leadership has quite effectively figured out how to shut it off. The brains of their congregates that is.
Yep. You did a good job running this blog. I'm happy people can still add posts, but I get that it requires a lot of time and energy to maintain and add content.
Eric
Thanks Eric.
Haha, I have a "Bachelor of Theology" degree from that fly by night joke of a "college." I wouldn't even put it on a resume; it's completely worthless. I keep mine around just to remind me of how much shit I had to endure to get it. Definitely a ripoff.
I've been a church member for over 18+ years I don't speak in other tongues but that doesn't mean I don't believe in it the Bible has all the answers.
You don't speak in "other tongues" probably because you are more real then most of the fakers. You can take that to the bank.
Do they have you convinced you're too unspiritual to "get the Holy Ghost," stringing you along with guilt at your failure? Do you have hope, or do you just disagree with their doctrine? Either way, 18 years is a long time to suck it up.
Post a Comment