The Blogs And The NTCCs Inability To Cover-up The Facts

I thought it was interesting how this hit counters recent visitors map suddenly shifted from all over the U.S. to a much more centralized region somewhere around the middle Missouri area. Imagine that. Couldn't be because of conference hey? I just can't imagine that many NTCC folks essentially betraying Mike and the good old org just to read my ex-er hater blog. It certainly would seem to be the case if you've followed my good old hit counter.

Maybe Mike and old RWD don't have quite the grip on those folks that they'd prefer? I wonder how many folks Mike and RWD ran off this conference? There has been a little pressure on the org with the Shunks starting a blog and the reporter hanging around.

Come on. You've got to admit that it is a weird mind set for all these guys who are trying to marry off their teen age daughters to do no more than live a life of poverty and struggle. Folks need to stop trying to be so spiritual and see things for what they really are. The NTCC has got you duped. My daughter is going to college. Do you think Mikes son will be doing any different? Time will tell won't it. I may very well be wrong but based on the Kekels history I somehow doubt it. Can you blame them? I may not care for Mike but he ain't no dummy. You think he is going to send his son through the NTCS? If he does he will sure prove me wrong but I highly doubt it.

It's probably going to go something like this. Someone is going to come on any number of different blogs and complain about how Kekel's son is attending a secular college after they were guilt tripped into sending their child through the NTCS. Then Mike is going to start a thread about folks not "listening" and misinterpreting what RWD has been putting out for years. Then he'll say he prayed about it and it seemed good to the Lord that GK attend Duke or Yale or a Military Academy or something like that. Then he will say that everyone else who "thought" their child had to attend the NTCS were no more than a bunch of knot heads.

Jeff

The False Prophet

Mike Kekel wrote this statement on his blog...

"I remember a certain prayer meeting at old Forest Ave., where I was down at the altar. We were all praying in the dimly lit chapel and God was moving; Debbie Blumenthal was right on the other side, praying in tongues. We were pouring our hearts out, and I noticed her sincerity most of all. I still believe she had something from God."

Jeff wrote...

Mike wrote quite a bit during his tirade toward Greg Shunk. The particular part above, highlighted in red, really caught my attention. I'm guessing that many people overlooked that small portion of his long statement, but it really stood out to me as a testament to Mike Kekel's character and psyche.

The first thing it tells me is that Mike has quite a high opinion of himself. Overblown to say the least. I wonder why Mike is so naive that he quite obviously seems to believe that he should actually be considered some kind of spiritual critic just because he married the big guy's daughter? The second thing it tells me is that Mike considers himself some kind of spiritual analyst. What qualifies Mike to make determinations concerning whether or not someone had quote, "something from God"? The fact that his father in law has systematically promoted him to head honcho henchman of the NTCC? I'm no spiritual guru and don't claim to be, but I doubt that Mike has quote "something from God". Mike wouldn't be in that position if he hadn't married the corporate head's daughter. So because RWD gave Mike preferential treatment, that qualifies him to be some kind of spiritual analyst? I don't think so and hence the title of this thread. The false prophet. That title fits him more suitably.

According to about 40 years of NTCC standards, Kekel is about as worldly as they get. So what you have is an egotistical, pomps, dude that is fooling himself and he works hard to learn how to attempt to fool others. I'm not fooled. Mike Kekel is no more qualified to evaluate Deb Shunk's former spiritual condition than I am to evaluate the structural rigidity of the golden gate bridge. Mike Kekel may have put in many hours in an attempt to continually control folks lives but we all know that didn't get him to the position he is in. His daddy in law did; plain and simple, and anyone who thinks differently can be the first to test out the strength of the bridge that I'm getting ready to build.

The next issue. Mike wrote...

"He began to obsess about what would happen to his wife if he died, would the church support her. No NTCC answer was given to such a foolish and unlearned question."

Jeff wrote...

What on Gods green earth is so quote "foolish and unlearned" about that question? Mike Kekel is living in the wonderland that has been prepared by his daddy in law so he is unable and unsuitable to even attempt to relate with such a concern. The NTCC is not even interested in taking care of widows so to Mike that would be a foolish question but to Greg who didn't get handed a silver spoon that is a legitimate concern. It's a legitimate concern for me also and I decided that I would no longer put any faith in the NTCC leadership because the only folks they are worried about taking care of is themselves. Even after they've ran you into the ground. It's good to know that Mike thinks it's foolish and unlearned for someone to be concerned about their wives well being.

How is Sis Espinoza doing? I rest my case. She certainly ain't living like the Kekels but I forgot, that was all her husbands fault, right? You know that she had to go find a job and all, getting paid probably around minimum wage? Foolish and unlearned hey? As usual what a bunch of garbage.

Jeff

Now You Have The Rest Of The Story

On Mike Kekel's blog Mike Kekel wrote...

"**No April,that is a fallacy. We maintain accurate records of the monthly support sent to Missionaries, and none of them have ever been forgotten. If you are referring to Casey Hayes and some of the things he said on Jeff Collins' Blog, no wonder. He wasn't forgotten, he was receiving support from the org AND WORKING a job, and still told everyone he was starving there. He tried to push the Cespedes' into "upgrading" their life and spending money on better furniture, criticizing their things, while he was moving to the "highlands" and putting his kids in the nicest music schools, etc. He NEVER got a building, never started a church, in all those years. The other Bro and Sis didn't get that, so they started their own thing and had a building, services and people in a few months. Casey Hayes stayed there in Puerto Rico for a few more years, and only went to their services ONCE. He wouldn't even go to church with them. He was flying to Florida with the boss, and golfing, etc. So now, how is that NTCC's fault? He should have been cut off really, but who knew? When he got back here, he told me he'd never seen such an outpouring of love. He posted to Collins' Blog that he saw NO love. Uh..? When the support money ran out, (money raised from NTCC people for Casey's endeavors,) it went red to the tune of 40k, just to keep it going. Now someone doesn't know what they are saying. What you call NTCC Fog, is the clouds that you see, and we're up above them in the sunshine."

Jeff responded with facts....

I talked to Casey Hayes and found out that some of what Mike Kekel wrote about him was ABSOLUTE lies. Now there are four possible options here. Either Mike Kekel willfully wrote an outright lie, or Mike Kekel was told an outright lie, or the story became an outright lie after it became completely distorted due to the grape vine, or Mike Kekel's recollection absolutely stinks and through simple minded ignorance he tells outright lies. Which ever the case, Mike Kekel wrote absolute falsehoods i.e. lies about Casey Hayes.

I asked Casey FOUR times if he played Golf in Florida and he absolutely said NO. I asked Casey so many times that it almost became insulting to him. I literally questioned him because I wanted true facts and I listened very carefully to his answers. He said that he never played golf even one time during the entire time he was in Puerto Rico or anywhere else say no less Florida. Casey simply did not play golf during the entire time-frame which was referenced by Mike Kekel so what Mike Kekel wrote was an an outright lie.

Casey also said that he suggested to the Cespedes that they "DIDN'T" spend their money, not the other way around so that was also an outright lie. He said that he suggested that they hold on to their money because it was expensive to live in Puerto Rico. Mike got that one completely backwards. Mike said that Casey had his children in the quote "nicest" music schools and Casey said that that his daughter was in a public school that taught music and the school was absolutely free unlike the school that Grant Kekel goes to at a cost of approximately $20,000 a year. You want to talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Mike Kekel said that the Cespedes got a building and services started but what Mike didn't tell you is that the Cespedes showed up to Puerto Rico with well over $10,000 at their disposal. According to Casey the amount reported to him was $14,000 that the Cespedes showed up with but don't take that to the bank because if the amount was actually $14,175 then Mike Kekel would get all rapped up with semantics and say that Casey was a liar so just know that the Cespedes showed up with a bunch of money that Casey Hayes didn't have. Therefore it shouldn't come as any surprise that the Cespedes were able to "AFFORD" a building. I don't know if the money was their own money or given by the NTCC, but the fact is that they reported to Casey that they showed up with about $14,000 US Dollars.

If you know Casey Hayes you know that he is one of the most happy go lucky guys that you will ever meet and he is very easy to get along with and Casey said that the Cespedes didn't even want to fellowship with Casey and his family so naturally Casey didn't want anything to do with them either. This next part is part speculation but I'm convinced that the NTCC leadership no doubt told the Cespedes that Casey was considered by them to be a dead beat so it comes as no surprise that the Cespedes showed up to Puerto Rico with a chip on their shoulder under the notion that they were sent there to save the day.

The NTCC is full of ministers that according to their controlling standards never did anything for God but the people they slander and smear are the ones who have left. Oberhauser received a congregation from Hunt of approximately 70 - 80 people or more and Oberhauser successfully knocked the congregation down to about 10 or less because of his lack of leadership skills while listening to Briggs poor guidance. I don't see Kekel starting a thread to discredit him? If he left the NTCC and had anything bad to say about the leadership then Kekel would slam him also. Tell me I'm lying? The only people who Mike writes about by name in a negative manner are the people who leave!!!! Go figure that one. Now you got the "Rest Of The Story".

Kekel simply wrote lies. Much of what Mike wrote wasn't even half truths and the majority of what remained was little more at best then a half truth. The only thing he wrote that was true is that Casey wasn't successful at building a church. Well join the club because that ain't no strange occurrence in the NTCC. Casey wanted to go to Connecticut in the first place anyway and RWD wouldn't have it because Casey had family that lived in the area. If the NTCC leadership wasn't so lousy they wouldn't have sent Casey there in the first place. Casey had been with the NTCC for about 20 years and they hadn't figured out yet that he wasn't some super pioneer church builder? Casey is one of my best friends but it is what it is and that is not an insult. The NTCC leadership dropped the ball on that one so they shouldn't blame their placement error on anyone but themselves. Oh I almost forgot; I thought it was God who told RWD to send Casey there in the first place. I guess God is the one who messed up. RWD better stop asking God where to send his people because in the case of Casey Hayes, according to Mike Kekel a mistake must have been made.

Get some of that Mikey and I didn't get it from the old devil either. You make the devil a whole lot more happy than I do. The devil wishes that I would shut down this blog because he likes the fact that you guys are misleading so many people with all your kooky rules that we are regularly exposing right here. We are messing up the devils game. I took that page right out of your NTCC super spiritual rhetoric book.

Jeff

Even More From The Dispatch

Don't let your eyes get too wide with this one but when I thought I'd seen it all, yet another good article has been written by Bruce at "The Dispatch". Justice is slow but it's sure.

Here is the link below. By all means leave your comments at The Dispatch if you want to add anything to the good article which has been written by Bruce.

It's amazing what a little persistence can accomplish when the right people put their nose to the mission. It is nice to taste the fruit of our labors and we can accomplish a lot when we work together. The NTCC could divert much or all of this negative publicity if their leaders would suck up their pride and apologize for all the hurt they've caused so many. I expect that is unlikely to happen.

http://www.dispatchnews.com/main.asp?Search=1&ArticleID=2578&SectionID=6&SubSectionID=6&S=1

Jeff

True Racism At It's Best Coming Directly To You From The Church Behind The Fence

Abraham Lincoln would be very unhappy about this one. I thought this type of racist conduct was on the way out the door and especially in churches, but hardly is the case where the NTCC is concerned.

Monique Navarro wrote...

I would like to confirm that what John D. stated about comments made about African Americans over the pulpit is correct. I am African American myself and have often heard racist comments being made about Blacks. Many of us have personally seen him make monkey gestures during one of his sermons as he stated that "hip hop music is "monkey music." I have also heard negative comments being made about African American women wearing braids and about mixed marriages. I have had a questionable experience in which a church member noticing my grandparents nice home asked how a "nigger got a house like that?"

When I brought this issue to Rev. Kekel's attention it was swept under the rug. He made it appear as if I was the one in the wrong. He personally told me that, "I shouldn't have gotten offended." He would just tell people that I had heart issues.

Sir we can't all be wrong. There are way too many in agreement that have left NTCC. Honestly sir, it looks to me like the only one with a heart issue is Rev. Kekel himself. I believed that this man loved me and my family. He destroyed my belief in him and in their organization. I and my family have since left. We are attending a new church where we are valued. God knows that what many are saying is true and we are not just "bitter people looking for revenge." What would be the point in doing that? That would be fruitless. Many of us are hoping to spare others a "look behind the fence". We that have left all know what goes on behind the fence and it isn't pretty. Save yourself the gas, the time and the money and don't bother visiting this church.

Jeff said...

As usual that is another "Real Story" about life in the NTCC. I suppose this lady is lying as well. Do you think? I copied this excerpt from "The Dispatch" and pasted it here on this blog. A link to the dispatch can be found in the thread immediately below. This is yet another example of one of the many reasons why I left the NTCC and why this blog exists. The NTCC leadership "OWES" folks some serious apologies with Monique not being the least of which who's deserving one. Unfortunately it will probably never happen. All fancy rhetoric aside; it really is sad when this type of conduct exists in what is supposed to be a Christian church. The NTCC leadership should be ashamed while making dire attempts to rectify and fix this highly unhealthy and hurtful situation that clearly exists within their corporation / organization.

Jeff

More From The Dispatch

Below is link to the second article about the NTCC printed in "The Dispatch", a South Pierce County Washington news paper. Looks like old Bruce (who wrote the article) took a heat round from Phil Kinson while attending service with the NTCC. That is a typical NTCC tactic and it's childish. Phil took Bruce's presents as an opportunity to take a cheap shop at journalists. I've seen NTCC pastors use that tactic so many times that it is utterly sickening. So I suppose that's how to win folks to Christ? What a joke is all I can say.

The next article will address folks opinion of the NTCC as a cult and I'm interested to see what is written.

http://www.dispatchnews.com/main.asp?SectionID=6&SubSectionID=6&ArticleID=2569&TM=63829.67

Jeff

EXTRA, EXTRA, READ ALL ABOUT IT!

Here is another chance to get the word out about what the NTCC is really all about. An article about the NTCC has been written in "The Dispatch", (A South Pierce County Washington Newspaper). At the bottom of the article is an "Article Comment Submission Form" that will allow you to voice your feelings about the NTCC. I think this a good thing however we will see. Attached below is a link.

http://www.dispatchnews.com/main.asp?Search=1&ArticleID=2556&SectionID=6&SubSectionID=6&S=1

Some folks have already posted their comments and I believe the word is getting out. Many of us know that the NTCC is a destructive cult who's primary goal it to control peoples lives so they can gain control of their money. The NTCC has always hated publicity because they have a whole bunch of bones that they don't want to have let out of the closet. This newspaper will certainly get the word out to the Pierce county residents. What the newspaper editor leaves out we can include by submitting our comments. The most important types information we can add are known facts. True, first hand testimonies will open the eyes people more than non quantifiable jargon such as the NTCC being a cult. Yes that is true but why is the NTCC a cult. I included some facts with my submission. The train is slow folks but I believe we are making progress. The NTCC has done much irreversible damage to the lives of many people and the word needs to continue to get out.

On a side note. Soon I'm going to visit my Mom and it's good not only to have the time, (because it won't be wasted on yet another blow hard conference) but I no longer feel the need to explain my itinerary to some narcissistic, control monger of an NTCC pastor. Thank God that he woke me up long enough to see that those days needed to be over.

Jeff Collins

A Concerned Mom

A few days ago I received a call from a woman who was concerned that her son had gotten involved with HOP. She had been reading this blog, Debs blog, factnet, and other websites which expose the NTCC. She was able to conclude that HOP was no more than a branch of the NTCC. The HOP leadership has brainwashed her son into believing that his Mom is being used by the devil and as a result he very rarely goes to visit her. As usual he believes and tells her that she is quote, "not saved" or right with God, and that she essentially doesn't understand what Christianity is all about. This young guy believes that Denis is some kind of prophet. Needless to say the HOP has this young man quite mixed up and thoroughly confused. Of course he doesn't see it that way and it is such a shame. The Mom is quite heart broken over the whole situation and I don't blame her.

This isn't the first time that I've received a call from a concerned Mom who's son has got all mixed up with either HOP or the NTCC. I see the two organizations as equally destructive, one being no better or worse than the other. If I could consider one organization worse I would definitely say it would be the NTCC because RWD molded and formed Denis and therefor RWD created HOP with his own wicked example.

This Concerned Mom didn't know which way to turn so she contacted me with the hope that I could provide her with some helpful information. The sad part is I don't know if I was able to help her at all? I was going to take a shot at talking to her Son but if I did that, the effects could potentially wind up far more negative than positive. The woman's son could possibly decide to thoroughly alienate his mom then, (more so than he already has) because of course he would know that she gave me his phone number. I can't really divulge much more of the conversation we had because if I did, I would risk revealing his moms identity and consequently risk doing more damage to an already shaky relationship between the Mom and her Son.

Churches like this are so destructive, but it's seems apparent that the majority of them are here to stay. Many cults have been around for a long time and I'm sure they've done as much damage to good loving families as the NTCC or HOP. I know this blog has helped folks see the light and I may never see the doors of the NTCC shut but I can surely reduce the traffic that goes in those doors while causing an increase to the number of people who walk out of those doors never to return.

I hope this mom's son will see the light sooner than later and leave HOP for good.

Jeff

The Case Of The Cursed Spring

Kristofer Moore recently wrote of a story where he installed a garage door tension spring for the NTCC. Kristofer told how Gesang (who represented the NTCC leadership) cheated him out of an honest wage after the work had already been completed. The NTCC leadership has always spoke about people being cursed and the law of sowing and reaping.

Well coincidentally Mike Kekel recently wrote on his blog that an NTCC overseer had been seriously injured while doing guess what? Working on a tension spring of a garage door. Now if someone who left the NTCC had been injured in such a fashion, an NTCC preacher would have proudly stood up behind the pulpit while proclaiming that God had judged and carried out a curse on such an individual. The NTCC leadership has a history of capitalizing on the calamities and misfortunes that occur to people who have left their church.

Ange, a former NTCCstress who posts here figured out that these two stories had a coincidental correlation. She wrote: "I wonder if this was the door Jim L. Johnson was working on when he got knocked off the ladder and broke his hip and arm? Perhaps Kristofer was already gone from ntcc when that happened to Johnson."

Jeff wrote...

Kristofer most certainly would have already been gone from the NTCC. Had the NTCC leadership not treated Kristofer so badly which resulted in him leaving the NTCC, he quite likely would have worked on the spring himself being a professional at such tasks. As a result the accident would have never occurred. Was the accident a direct result of a curse and Gods judgment? I seriously doubt it (even though according to the NTCC leadership such re-concurrences of GAWDs judgment do take place quite often). For sure the NTCC leadership mistreated and ran off Kristopher, (a professional with garage door springs) and had they not done so, and had they paid him an "HONEST" wage, he quite likely would have worked on and fixed the very garage door spring (referenced in the accident) which would have absolutely prevented the injury situation from ever occurring in the first place.

Just food for thought. Actually this thread has nothing to do with food for thought. I wrote this thread to deliberately get underneath the NTCC leaderships skin for all the years that they've proclaimed Gods judgment on everyone else who decided to leave the NTCC and who were later circumstantially affected by some kind of mishap which had nothing to do with Gods judgment, (contrary to the NTCC leaderships grand proclamations).

Jeff

The Submissive Woman By Jennifer Maesner / The Communistic Totalitarian Concentration Camp NTCC Campground Thread

There has been a lot of speculation lately, from many avenues, as to what submission to one's husband truly means. I have seen submission equated with being a doormat, over and over again. I have also seen it equated with "putting your husband on a pedestal" and following blindly. The examples I had growing up led me to believe that submission was expected of a woman, and taken from her, rather than allowing her the choice to give it. I saw dominant husbands take their roles to the extreme. I heard it touted about that the man made the money, and that the woman had no say. One story in particular I remember hearing over the pulpit related from the lips of RWD himself. A man in the church was talking to RW, and RW said that he was thinking about getting a new car, and so they stopped and looked at a dealer's lot. RW was strongly considering buying one particular car, and the brother asked him, "Are you going to talk to your wife about it first?" RW told him in no uncertain terms that HE made the money, and it was HIS, he didn't CARE what his wife thought because HE was the head of the household and she would either fall in line or there would be problems." Another story I heard from him was one in which he was saying that he had no need to look at pornography, because he had a wife. "All I need to do is go home and tell her to get undressed, and she'd better do it," were his exact words. To me this sounded like rape, and neither story really sounded biblical to me. I didn't understand how a person could think this way about his wife. Didn't the Bible say that a man was to love his wife as his own body? I needed a better answer. After years of soul-searching as an adult, I stumbled accidentally onto the literal answer that I felt applied, biblically.

A friend of mine has a daughter who is 11 years old. She is very much a follower. When asked what movie she wants to watch, or kind of dinner she'd like to have, etc, she always just asks to have the choice made for her. Some would see this as weak. These people have not seen her, though, when someone tries to tell her what to do when she did not give them permission to do so. In her last neighborhood, there was a bully. He constantly tried to force her to play the game he wanted to play. She refused and usually went inside. One day, she saw him treating someone else this way, and she got in his face and in no uncertain terms told him exactly what she thought of his controlling attitude.

Her mother and I discussed this, and I pointed out that she will most likely be a very submissive wife. She was concerned, because not all men see submission as something they earn from their wives, but something that is due them for the simple fact that they own a Y chromosome. Then, we started to see, as with the bully, that her daughter was choosy about who was allowed to tell her what to do, and who was not. She gave her submission to those who had earned it - either her parents, by right of them being her parents, or her friends, by right of having been nice to her and earning it. This got me thinking about what true submission is in adults who marry. This is what I came up with. A woman who is submissive to her husband can either chose to do so, or have the choice taken away. When a woman has that choice taken away from her, it is not healthy. She is married to a dominant, control freak husband who must dominate every aspect of his wife's life. The woman who chooses to be submissive takes control of her own life. She finds a man that she feels is strong, and worthy of her trust. By placing her trust in him, she is able to allow him the reins, and be submissive to him.

Sidetrack for a second - because I'm a horse person, everything seems to have analogy in horses :) With horses, they are stronger than you, they can be meaner than you, etc. But if you respect that horse, and do what you can to work with him or her to form a partnership, that horse will trust you for the rest of his or her life, and you can guide where that horse goes, with only a few nudges along the way. But if you are mean to that horse, and completely disrespect it, you will get one of two things. One horse may end up with a broken spirit. He has no real purpose in life other than keeping you from getting angry with him. Another horse may end up taking back the control, and buck you off and refuse to allow you to touch it. Women are the same way. Women who truly feel that they have control over their lives will fight you if you take her for granted, and are rude and disrespectful to her. How can she be successful in raising children according to God's laws, if she and her husband are unable to follow them in their own lives? Women who do not have control of their lives - or feel that they do not - end up broken. Their children end up raised in an unhealthy environment, because how can she raise happy, well adjusted children, when she herself is not? Neither is a good scenario. Women shouldn't think that being submissive means becoming a doormat. It means trusting in your husband to do what is right for your family, and placing yourself under him on the totem pole. It is something only you can do. No one should ever be able to take that choice away from you. But put yourself on the totem pole above him, and you emasculate him, and do not allow him to lead, which is where God wanted him to be.

Men, don't think that submission is a sign of weakness. Your wife is not weak. She is a woman in her own right, with her own personality, her own likes and dislikes, her own opinions. Completely disregard this and you will have one of the 2 previous scenarios. It is a good recipe for disaster. But treat her right, let her know that her opinion matters. I am not suggesting that you drop the reins and become emasculated. It is completely possible to allow your wife to express her opinion, hear her, and then make your decision, even if it is not what she suggested. She will still feel heard and considered, and that is important. It is the mark of a true leader who allows his wife to share her opinion before making his decision.

I want to end this by recapping - it is my choice to be submissive to my husband. He earned my trust before we ever married, by showing me that he was a trustworthy companion, and honest and earnest leader. If he ever destroys that trust, I will take back the reins until he can find the spot God wanted him to be in. This may make me seem defiant to some of you, but I will not be trampled underfoot. That is not the place God gave to me. He gave me the spot of being a helper to my husband, not a slave. He gave me the spot of being my husband's follower, not his doormat. I hope to God this never happens, because it will put me in a very uncomfortable position. But I must place my trust in God that he would lead my husband back to where he needed to be, so that I could then resume being my husband's help meet, the way it was supposed to be.

Jennifer Maesner

The Old Bait And Switch

First picture: The uneven balance indicative of the testimonies written below. Second picure: The three crooks; RWD, Gesang, and Kekel with his expensive guitar. Third picture: Olson after he has told the departing minister to zero out his escrow account.

On Deb Shunk's blog Kristofer Moore wrote...

I went to Graham, fixed the door, and thought of a low price for Gesang that wouldn't be too low for my boss. I said $150. I am pretty sure it was 2 springs I replaced. My boss, sometimes, would go down to $175 on a spring job, but basically that was supposed to be the price of ONE spring. I told Eli the price, and he said, "I don't think so, Brother Moore. We're not gonna do this unless it's gonna be a blessing to us, too." I just said, great. He's gonna get me in trouble with my boss. I just said, I don't care. I'll take the hit, and asked him how much he wanted to pay me. Just give me whatever you want. He said, how about I'll give you a hundred bucks.

Vic Johanson replied...

Kristopher, this reminds me of when I was working for Valley Press in Puyallup, and Mike K. approached me about getting a break on some printing work done for when they were going to open the BS chapel up to the local community. I got samples, and naturally they wanted the most luxurious stock available. They were specifically warned that it would be very expensive, but it was "nothing but the best for God's 'program.'"

I got them a good price, and they were satisfied with the quality of the work, but as soon as they got the bill, they were grumbling and murmuring about how costly it was, trying to get me to chisel my boss (the same Christian boss who had donated hundreds of dollars worth of paper for NTCC's own print shop) for a bigger discount. I made a lukewarm attempt, but they just looked at me like I was nuts and reminded me of how they had specifically issued a warning on the high cost of the requested material and already given them a good deal.

It was very uncomfortable to be placed in that position, but it did serve to alert me to their duplicitous ways. My boss rejoiced with me when I fired them.

Jeff said...

What a bunch of crooks. Those are prime examples of the old bait and switch. It's amazing that the NTCC leadership has the audacity to preach against other sales professions when their own ministers are conducting themselves in such a fashion. I guess RWD taught the NTCC leadership not to exercise honor or good character. I know of a specific instance and I've read about others where NTCC pastors sold cars to their church members for way more then the cars were worth. The above accounts are prime examples of the old bait and switch were a crooked customer comes to a automobile dealership, finds an automobile they want to buy, agrees on a price, and then once the vehicle is detailed, filled up with gas, additional accessories added and the vehicle ready for delivery the customer says, "I won't take delivery of the car unless you take off another $500. It's amazing to me just how crooked these NTCC money grubbers have become.

They deceitfully place scriptures in their doctrinal statement to support tithes such as 1Cor 16:2, which have absolutely nothing to do with tithing. They sell cars to their church members for way more than they are worth. They hire folks to do work for them and after the services have already been rendered, they decline on paying the price determined by the person who performed the service and labor. They buy church buildings with money which has been stored up and accumulated by controlling escrow accounts and then after the building has been purchased, soak the congregation for even more money for items such as new insulation, upgraded church signs, decorative lighting, better pews and the list goes on. They do all this while the whole time creating an atmosphere which results in a continual turnaround of church members and ministers and why? Because it's obvious that the NTCC is not about good will and the saving of souls; the NTCC is about the accumulation of property and once that has been done, if the souls don't like it, "THERE IS THE DOOR". We were all duped and it is obvious when you read the testimonies above. RWD has created a select group of conniving, money grubbing crooks which are stark reminders of the money changers that Christ rebuked in the temple. The more I learn about the NTCC and its leaders, the more I despise the organization.

Jeff Collins

NTCC Jargon

In a previous thread CM wrote...

Jeff, A a new topic to discuss; NTCC jargon sayings that are so BOGUS! Example: "You will never be the same once you leave NTCC. Once you've heard the word of God preached while in NTCC; you will never be the same."

Jeff said....

That is a great idea. I have one, and it was one of Olson's favorites. "We're winning".

I always thought that saying was bogus even when I was "IN" the NTCC. How in the world were we "winning" when half the NTCC pastors were running folks off no sooner than they came through the church doors? How in the world were we winning when the local church pastor was constantly begging for more money to purchase a church sign or to have more insulation installed in the attic, or to have enough toilet paper in the latrine, or because the church rent was already past-due? How were we winning when a visiting pastor, (Bro Solomon) stood up and testified that he had no clue where the money would come from that was needed in order to take care of his families basic necessities and keep the lights on? Then to add insult to injury, L.D. Jones stood up and critiqued Solomon's testimony by suggesting that Solomon didn't have enough faith and that Solomon had placed restrictions on Gods full potential to provide for our needs.

If that's what the NTCC calls "winning", I wonder what they consider loosing? I know, leaving their sorry organization because as long as you are renting one of RWD's houses (that you will never own or consider yours), living from paycheck to paycheck, driving an old broke down automobile, eating vienna sausages, and wondering where the money is come from to keep the lights on, "YOU'RE WINNING"!

Jeff

Fear; The Main Tactic Used By Cult Leaders In An Attempt To Prevent Members From Leaving Their Church. Let's Dispel the Myth

The number 1 stumbling block for many who desire to leave the NTCC is "fear". For decades NTCC leaders have taught that if you leave their church you will be cursed and judged. In doing so they have equated leaving their church to leaving God. NTCC leaders have even gone as far as saying that "if you leave the NTCC you've left God". Through time they have used a few isolated examples highlighting someone's misfortune (which circumstantially happened after the individual left the NTCC) in an attempt to prove their hypothesis.

Understand that this a typical cult tactic used by many different cults in an attempt to prevent members from leaving their church. Experts have stated that one of the main signs in identifying a cult is when a church leader equates leaving their church to leaving God. That makes perfect sense because it's obvious that the Creator of the universe, AKA God, is a whole lot bigger than any particular church group. Leaving RWD is not leaving God regardless of what that crook RWD teaches. Leaving the NTCC is not leaving God regardless of what many NTCC yes men have taught, and I've personally heard them teach that mess.

The fact is the vast majority of people who have left the NTCC live far more productive lives than they ever lived while they were a part of the NTCCs organization. A good friend recommended that I start this thread and he suggested that I ask participators and readers of this blog to give specific examples of how your life has improved since you've left the NTCC. I will begin with examples of my own.

For the record, I've heard various NTCC pastors openly state that If you leave the NTCC, you are leaving God. It was relayed to me by a Brother who also left the NTCC that Oberhauser told him that my family would be cursed because we left the NTCC. Here is a brief break down of my life during and after involvement with the NTCC.

With the NTCC, hardly any family time. After the NTCC, more and quality family time. With the NTCC, tight on money. After the NTCC, more available cash flow without doubt. With the NTCC hardly any vacations or time away other than conference where I could go to hear RWD say, "if you don't like it here there is the door" while stating that "he was there first." We are preparing to go visit my Mom in New York and this past summer we took a vacation at a lake resort which would have certainly resulted in a guilt triping / blasting by many NTCC pastors. It was ok however for the Mayers to leave their church so they could go on a vacation to Disney World / Universal Studios. Hypocrites. Since we left the NTCC, my children have a much, much better quality of life just like Grant Kekel has had all along. Friendships with people no longer hing upon us having to remain a part of their church. To sum it up, life has been much better without the rigorous rules that were mandated by crooked NTCC pastors. Rules which have obviously not been followed by the Kekels and many other NTCC pastors. Information on the internet has proved all this.

Yes life is much better and far more enjoyable since we've left the NTCC so if that is a curse I'll take it. I'm no longer interested in following double standard, abusive hypocrites like RWD and Olson and there ain't no way that my wife is going to be used to clean the Kekels house.

Jeff

RWD, The Controlling Con Artist

Nicole wrote in a previous thread...

"In one of the classes that Davis taught, two sisters were bickering or mad at each other for something, so one tattled on the other that she had started going to Curves. Davis got very angry and told our whole class that if we have money to attend Curves, he was going to raise our tuition. "

Jeff said...

This is as usual a totally startling revelation. I really wonder what it will take so that NTCC folks will wake up and forsake old RWD and the NTCC. Does everyone understand what Davis was saying????? He was saying that people would spend THEIR money the way he, (RWD) saw fit or he would create a institutional financial requirement that would totally effect the amount of money that his students had to spend. He would create a situation that would require them to spend money which would go to the NTCC so they wouldn't have enough money left to spend on what they wanted. The mentality that RWD possesses is so sick, controlling, conniving, and crooked that it is almost beyond understanding.

Who is RWD to dictate how grown folks spend their money? Not only that but do all the readers here have any idea how many NTCC woman currently attend fitness centers such as curves? LOTS. It's all over the internet because that is a good percentage of what NTCC women talk about; hence my last thread. So what kind of double standard garbage is that? It's called using a school to indoctrinate your psychologically manipulated slaves and minions. That was proof that RWD was after their MONEY. More importantly and more accurately than that, it is proof that RWD truly feels deep down inside that HE, (RWD) should have control of YOUR MONEY, PERIOD. Additionally, it is also obvious that if he thought you were spending your money on something other than HIS CHURCH, he would create a church requirement that would result in you not having any money left to spend elsewhere. That is sick and RWD is a complete con artist and I have no problem or fear of writing it or saying it.

Jeff Collins

P.S. How long will some folks let the likes of RWD and Kekel control their entire life, because it is not God who is doing it. God doesn't say that he will raise the tuition of a non accredited bologna school because you spent money to try to stay in some kind of physical shape. I didn't see RWD telling Tanya and Mike to stop spending money when they were spending about $20,000 a year on Grants school, which included Grant playing football and basketball and who knows how many other physically related activities. Can't you NTCC folks see and understand what I'm saying? I'm not against you, I'm trying to point out some things that you may not be aware of because that is the purpose of this blog. I have no control of how Kekel and RWD spend their money and I'd be an idiot if I allowed them to control how I spend mine, primarily and especially because of what I know about them now. Such a double standard and such crookedness and it is plain to see. What, God holds the Kekel family to a different standard? Has God become partial? No but RWD is partial, and anyone who can't see that after reading this blog is blind. We are not making this stuff up. I have better things to do.

RWD Has Women Reduced To This

Just a little trivial information and something that I've noticed. NTCC women generally, are thoroughly obsessed with loosing weight, growing hair, purses, shoes, and clothes. The reason that I'm saying this is because a great deal of what NTCC women post on the internet deals with one of those areas.

Now I understand that most people like to have nice clothing to obviously include women outside of the NTCC. The main difference between these groups (women in the NTCC vs women not in the NTCC) is that women not in the NTCC quite frequently have interests other then the ones that I've listed above; and why is that? Because RWD and the NTCC leadership have reduced women to second class citizens who the NTCC teaches should have little interest in any other possessions or activities. So the result is that if you search the internet you will find that NTCC women discuss little more then loosing weight, growing hair, purses, shoes, and other clothing items; PERIOD!!! Essentially, pure undefiled vanity has become their key pursuit in life.

No goals, no objective, (other than loosing weight it seems) and no real direction other than to follow their man who lives only to follow RWD while watching both he and Kekel gain more wealth at the expense of everyone else's sacrifice. This is done only for the majority of the NTCC women to be left desolate and destitute when their husbands die with the NTCC nowhere in sight while Tanya Kekel sits fat and happy having inherited a piece of what everyone in the NTCC has ever done.

It should be an eye opener when you look at it like this because it is what it is.

Jeff

R'DUBs Degree Or Lack Thereof

Mark G. wrote...

I did do some checking on R'Dubs degrees. I know all about how degrees work, especially in the field of Religion. Right now I don't have time to expound on the subject and this is not a "Dedicated Thread" for that so I'll try to stay within certain parameters. I asked the same question on Factnet 4 or 5 years ago about his so called "Degrees" and no one had a direct answer. Maybe in the future this is a subject that could be visited on this Blog site.

Jeff wrote...

I can use all the help I can get so I've gladly posted Mark G's statement that I pulled from a previous thread. This is a topic that had been previously discussed on a few occasions but it hasn't come up in a good while and I don't believe that it's ever come up on this blog. Is there anyone out there that can confirm whether or not RWD actually ever truly held any type of degree? One of my NTCC pastors told the brothers in the serviceman's home (including me) that RWD held a Doctorate degree of some kind ( I believe we were told theology), however there have been a good many people who have suggested that there has never been any evidence to even remotely support such a claim. Of course all responses are welcome.

Thanks Mark for a good topic,
Sincerely,
Jeff

The Love Of Money and RWD

Mark G. posted this message on the previous thread and I responded. I thought it would make for a good "new" thread and of course we haven't had one for a while.

Mark G. said...

Yep....Something else that I have been thinking about is the fact that I've heard from other people (Not from him personally,or from behind the pulpit) that he asked God to make him either a Millionaire or a Multi-Millionaire. If it is true, and he did indeed ask God to do that for him then I think that in itself is a very revealing statement about himself personally.

Jeff said...

I'm glad you said that because I personally witnessed and with my "own" ears heard RWD say that he prayed to God that he, "RWD" would become a millionaire. That always left a distinct impression on my mind because it made a few things obvious.

First, RWDs statement made it obvious that number one and most importantly, RWD wasn't already a millionaire when he made that prayer to God. Secondly and quite important as well, he is a seriously materialistic dude. I don't blame him for being materialistic but it proves that he is not as super spiritual as some have suggested because we know that the love of money is the root of "all" evil. RWD definitely loves money or he wouldn't have prayed for it and then openly stated that he prayed for money in front of hundreds of people in that sanctuary.

The reason that it's significant that he wasn't already a millionaire is because NTCC loyalists like to claim that RDUB didn't get his riches through the ministry and from the church people. Well that notion is a complete lie. Yes he made good investments, and yes he made good real-estate purchases but the money that it took to make those investments and purchases came from a bunch of struggling church folks in the NTCC without doubt. RWD gained his riches through greed and at the expense of his minister's and church member's sacrifice. We know this because the money had to come from somewhere and we know he wasn't "already" a millionaire when he made that prayer. Why would someone pray to become a millionaire if they already were a millionaire? They wouldn't.

When RWD made that statement, it showed me a lot about his character and his organization. According to the Bible, Solomon didn't even make such a prayer and the Bible emphasized that fact quite clearly. RWD is a money hungry blow hard who makes no apologies for that fact, and he doesn't care if his ministers have struggled so that he could achieve that goal, and they most certainly have. Now Kekel is the same way and you NTCC guys are being duped to live in poverty while those two guys just get more rich off of your efforts.

Get your very own church building and stop sending money up to Graham and stop placing money into an escrow account that you have no control over.

Jeff Collins