"Due to our intent to train disciples strictly for the church ministry within our churches, we do not offer nor purport to offer any training which could be construed in any way by a participant therein as preparatory for any occupation, secular of otherwise, or for any advancement within another institution, religious or otherwise, outside of the New Testament Christian Churches of America, Inc. Neither does this Institution offer nor purport to offer a degree or any other credentials qualifying participants for any position or occupation outside of our churches."
Signed,
Mike Kekel
Let me try and make sure that everyone who reads this blog fully understands exactly what this disclaimer means. In short it means that the NTCC wants you, and any other religious institution, and or any potential employer to know that their transcript is worth no more than a single square of toilet paper that you wiped your butt with and flushed down the commode.
What the NTCC's saying is that the owner of the transcript should not feel that the transcript is intended to be helpful to them in ANY WAY, SHAPE, FORM, OR FASHION if, they ever decide to look for a job or leave the NTCC or preach in any other church organization.
What the NTCC is also saying is that if you ever leave the NTCC, the four years of your life that you invested in attendance at the NTC Seminary, will have been absolutely worthless and here is the important part; so that the NTCC could make sure the transcript and the four years invested is worthless, they deliberately put a disclaimer on the transcript to make it useless to all ministers if they ever decided not continue with the NTCC. That is a big gamble folks. Knowing what I know now, my choice would be an accredited school for sure.
Let me try and make sure that everyone who reads this blog fully understands exactly what this disclaimer means. In short it means that the NTCC wants you, and any other religious institution, and or any potential employer to know that their transcript is worth no more than a single square of toilet paper that you wiped your butt with and flushed down the commode.
What the NTCC's saying is that the owner of the transcript should not feel that the transcript is intended to be helpful to them in ANY WAY, SHAPE, FORM, OR FASHION if, they ever decide to look for a job or leave the NTCC or preach in any other church organization.
What the NTCC is also saying is that if you ever leave the NTCC, the four years of your life that you invested in attendance at the NTC Seminary, will have been absolutely worthless and here is the important part; so that the NTCC could make sure the transcript and the four years invested is worthless, they deliberately put a disclaimer on the transcript to make it useless to all ministers if they ever decided not continue with the NTCC. That is a big gamble folks. Knowing what I know now, my choice would be an accredited school for sure.
My friends; that is exactly what is being said within the disclaimer and one should be very reluctant to attended the NTCC's thoroughly self satisfying seminary because their transcript is certainly not intended to provide any satisfaction to the person who receives it. The NTCC is the most selfish organization that I have ever been a part of in my life and I mean that for certain.
Jeff Collins
52 comments:
Jeff,
Glad I am going to an accredited university!! The GI Bill is the way to go!
But don't lose hope folks, some religious universities will give you credit for your NTCC transcript.
i saw a google ad while reading the blog called e-tithing.
ntcc should just have the churches send it all via e-payments. less hassle for them and they can still get the money.
I ALWAYS disagreed with the notion of a church needs to send money to graham.
i believe that if a church raises money, that money should be used ONLY for THAT church.
Anon number 1, I am also attending an accredited university. So glad I did not go to NTCC school. Prob would have left it not long after starting it anyways since I do not do well with being treated poorly.
Anon 2, I agree. As it has been proven Davis is Greedy and you can use Google Earth to see his house. It is the biggest house on the street he lives on. THe other homes look like shakes compaired to his. Now why would anyone want such a large home built in a neighborhood with smaller homes around it? TO puff himself up? And the purpose of the fence and security system just to get in the yard is what?
Funny also is the fact that if your an ordained minster you still have to attend NTCC Bible College to be a so-called minister in their Org (which really is not saying much).
The Credits that you received from Bob Jones U or some other school of theology are not transferable to NTCC.
The older I get the more I realize that our greatest asset is not money but time.
Go to NTCC Bible School you just prostituted four years of your life AND FOR WHAT??? No one can give those years back to you. Not Davis, not Crackle, NOBODY. That WAS your allotted time given to you by God that you just wasted.
I'm not bashing those folks who have been through the ringer and done that, just remember to be forwarned is to be forarmed.
NTCC is one of MANY cults out there, some of which are far more worse than NTCC. You can look at NTCC as "cult lite" as there are a few good minsters somehow by the Grace of God still in this defunctive organization, why that is I do not know.
Again, God works in mysterious ways.
If He can use ministers in NTCC to reach folks He will.
MLJ
I am more concerned about my name being written in the Book of Life than getting a piece of paper saying I can preach from the NTCC Print Shop.
By the way if your called to preach, your called to preach. The devil did not place that desire in your heart.
What the devil does do is use wicked men to steer God's voices down a cliff.
I should not need ANYONES approval or endorsement to go to a Bible School. God's stamp of approval by the witness of the Holy Ghost is good enough for me.
The gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
MLJ
Brother Jeff,
Correct me if I am wrong, but if memory serves me right
REV Gaylord did NOT attend NTCC Bible Collge. He was already an ordained minister.
Wasn't he made an "Honorary Member" of NTCC.
I heard Rev Gaylord preach before. Pretty powerful stuff.
Bro Johnson
Bro Johnson said...
Correct me if I am wrong, but if memory serves me right; REV Gaylord did NOT attend NTCC Bible College. He was already an ordained minister.
Jeff said...
Frankly I don't know. I don't know much about Bro Gaylord. I only met him a few times.
Jeff
MLJ said...
NTCC is one of MANY cults out there; some of which are far worse than NTCC. You can look at NTCC as "cult lite" as there are a few good ministers somehow by the Grace of God still in this defunctive organization, why that is I do not know.
Jeff said...
LOL. Ha, ha. "CULT LITE". Ha, ha. That was good MLJ. All the flavor without all the calories. They ruin folks lives without actually murdering them.
I know why it is that there are still good ministers in the defunctive organization. For all who don't know the word defunctive refers to the dead. The word dead found in the scripture reference is purely circumstantial as it relates to MLJ's question but nevertheless applicable.
Rev 3:1 1/2 I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art "dead".
Jeff said... MLJ: Chapter 3 verse 4 answers your question.
Rev 3:4 Thou hast a few names "even" in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
Jeff said... Notice that I put quotation marks around the word "even". That is very important. What it's saying is that even in a thoroughly messed church there can still be good people but also notice the scripture only said a "few". I'm sure that it is very difficult to remain good in a thoroughly corrupt church because of all the bad influences. The other problem is that once you realize how crooked the NTCC really is, I would say it is your duty to leave.
How with a good conscience, are you going to willfully lead people into a trap.
What I am about to write is purely speculative but I strongly suspect that the folks in Sardis who hadn't defiled their garments hadn't been their long. Sooner or later the NTCC's bad ways will rub off on you or you will simply leave because you know what they do is WRONG.
Jeff
Bro. Johnson,
You are correct-- Rev. Gaylord never attended an ntcc college.
Jeff,
I think that disclaimer is about 10 years old. They had to add that disclaimer, because they were having trouble with people believing that their ntcc training and ministers card actually had some value. When I graduated from 4 years of bs in 1988, alot of us were under the belief that we had received a Bachelor in Theology degree. It seems very naive now, but at the time I really thought I had something substantial. I remember that I actually put it on resumes for a time. We were also under the belief that RWD had an actual doctorate degree of some kind, although he would never disclose where or when he received such a degree. I think Olson, Ashmore and others also had Bachelor of Theology degrees at the name in the student handbook. We found out years later that RW does NOT have any degree (and has never brought forth any proof that he does), nor Olson. nor Ashmore or anyone. It was all a scam.
The problem came about when either some employers checked into it, and found that they didn't have a real degree. I think also some people who had left ntcc went to other theological colleges to further their ministry-- and found out that their ntcc training was worthless. There are a very few that will give you some credit for time served in ntcc, which I think happened to Les Rhinehart.
The spin that Davis put on it all when he was forced to add this disclaimer, was not that ntcc was at fault in any way, but rather that those who had left ntcc (i.e. "left God") had stirred up trouble by going to these legitament christian colleges looking for some credits. It made ntcc look bad, so that had to spin that those who had left were the problem. The real problem, of course, is that going to ntcc college means absolutely NOTHING! It's worthless! It only means that you are in good standing with ntcc and ntcc ONLY. The Bible training that you receive in ntcc is really shallow at best-- you could learn the exact same stuff on your own reading your Bible. The real training you receive in ntcc is how to be a good ntcc'er, and how to please the leaders of ntcc, and how to follow the cult tactics without causing waves.
OK Casey,
So your telling me that NTCC is being run, however discreetly, by a man who has NO degree in theology.
WOW...that explains a lot. So where does Davis get his credentials from?
Funny how no one has had the audacity to confront him with this. Kekel didn't answer my question about this when I asked him as well.
MLJ
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. That's why when Kekel is confronted about Davis' credentials he says, "I never asked". Of course he didn't, because he knows he doesn't have any. But there was a time back in the 70's when Davis was going around saying he had a PhD or Doctorate of Divinity. But since he couldn't back up that claim he no longer says it. It's things like that that make me say ntcc is a sham, because they were lying and fabricating things back then. The only claim to authority that Davis has is Davis himself saying he is called of God. Everything rests upon HIS word and HIS word only. I strongly believe that Davis completely fabricated his claim of God telling him to start a church, and his sole purpose of starting ntcc was to create a church where he was in charge of everything and everyone. It's MAIN goal was not to reach souls for God, but to give Davis a place of authority and financial riches. It's SECONDARY goal was to preach the Gospel, but Davis' narcissistic ways hurt those they did reach.
Since it's inception, ntcc has had to exaggerate it's importance to give it an air of legitimacy. They have always been trying to make it look like more than it really is. (Isn't that a form of lying?)
When it was first started it was called Midwestern Bible Institute. It wasn't much of an "institute" as it had only a handful of members. Then they changed their name to New Testament Church of God. Then, in 1980-something, they changed their name again to New Testament Christian Church. Then came New Testament Christian Seminary. Then (I don't remember all the details)Washington state sent them a letter, in Graham, in which the state said ntcc would have to stop calling themselves a "seminary", since they were not accredited and not a real seminary. So, now we have, New Testament Christian College-- which offers NO degrees (except the 3rd), offers NO minister's license (but does have a Fellowship Card), and basically gives you nothing except a warm, fuzzy feeling for all those years of hard work trying to type all the worthless notes, work on a menial job, and rushing to make it to class on time. It's really a big joke.
"But there was a time back in the 70's when Davis was going around saying he had a PhD or Doctorate of Divinity."
He claimed he had both, even in the '80s. He would simultaneously boast about his degrees and his humility by making remarks like "I have a Ph.D and a D.D., but they don't mean anything; they're sitting in a drawer collecting dust." What a narcissist! If they really didn't mean anything, he wouldn't have needed to fabricate them and tell us about their alleged existence. But it suited his "cotton mill hill boy made good" story line.
"Then came New Testament Christian Seminary. Then (I don't remember all the details)Washington state sent them a letter, in Graham, in which the state said ntcc would have to stop calling themselves a "seminary", since they were not accredited and not a real seminary. So, now we have, New Testament Christian College..."
Actually, that's backwards--they had to quit calling it a college and start calling it a seminary. I find that hilarious, since a seminary is generally a postgraduate institution, and I also remember them mocking seminaries, referring to them as "cemeteries." But as we know, they change all the time, while denying that change has occurred. Very surreal.
thanks for the clarification Vic.
Rev. Davis DID have further study, as he had talked about the thesis he had to write.
"Rev. Davis DID have further study, as he had talked about the thesis he had to write."
If he's stretching truth about the Ph.D and D.D., why should we believe what he says about a thesis? If he did write one, it was likely just some make-work for a diploma mill. And I'd also like to know how he got a Ph.D without so much as a B.A. How come we never heard anything about his "college years?" (Hint: there WEREN'T ANY!).
seems that false teachers find themselves easy prey with new christians becuase when we 'get saved' purity comes into our hearts for the first time and naturally we expect our "pastors" to be men of honor and virtue, thus we fall prey to there spurious teachings and outright lies
i.e. ""Rev. Davis DID have further study, as he had talked about the thesis he had to write."
boy, you need a nice healthy dose of skeptism
and to become more like a berean
acts 17:11
now the bereans searched the scriptures daily to make sure the things paul and silas were teaching were true, realizing they were mere men and prone to error
i once told someone in the ntcc that the needed to be more skeptical and they said "since when did skeptism become a virtue?"
my answer was "since when did stupidity become a virtue?"
if "pastor" Davis has been caught in 1 single, unrepentant lie that makes him a liar and EVERYTHING he says must be sctutinized with the absolute highest diligence
christians aren't supposed to be naive, we are called to be strong and lead by God not some hill billy blowhard know it all conman thief
sincerely,
t
the thing i really have a hard time grasping is how ntcc students just believe what they are told
maybe im strange,but, when i heard Davis say "all REAL christians pay tithe" i was very angry because
1. i had only been a chrisian for a short time but did not find tithing in the NT
2. that he would portray this carnal selfish attitude as a "spirit filled christian"
3. that he would have the audacity to suggest that someone wasnt saved if they didnt meet his required concoction of christianity
i had only been saved 3 months when i came to WA and met him and knew that he was a proud pompous man who disdained others, but would use flattery to control others as well
oh well, maybe im not saved since i don't believe in "pastor" Davis
woe is me!!
oh wait a minute, praise God, i dont need to believe in him, i need to believe in Jesus!!!!
amen!!!
t
ps- that last section was sarcasm for those who can't tell
Are you sure the "thesis" he wasn't writing was a business plan?
t said...
"I had only been saved 3 months when i came to WA and met him and knew that he was a proud pompous man who disdained others, but would use flattery to control others as well."
Jeff said...
t: I wish had the same insight that you did much earlier. It took me a whole lot longer to figure out those NTCC folks. Hopefully our combined experiences written on this blog and others will help other folks steer clear of the NTCC.
Jeff
Jeff,
im not claiming to have insight, i was protected from it to a large degree because i never had the "oppurtunity" to attend an ntcc church and was already attending a good solid Bible teaching church because there was no ntcc around.
so i guess i didnt get as brain washed as a typical church member
and i tend to be a non-conformist by nature, you really have to prove something to me before i buy into it
pllus the fact that my wife didnt want anything to do with it and my relatve referred to her as a "jezebel" (over the phone, if he had been with me i would have knocked him out)
speaking of that- i can't believe the crap that guys put up with from these so called "preachers" bad mouthing there wives
if i heard a preacher "jack up" my wife i would have a serious problem with him and he with me, and i wouldnt let him get away with it
i know that Kekel "jacked up" my relatives wife and my relative thought it was good for her!!!
geeez, men stand up for your wife and kids...be MEN!! stop letting these no good pansy, coward preachers "jack up" your family- take a stand for once!!!
t
"the thing i really have a hard time grasping is how ntcc students just believe what they are told"
Until you have personally experienced mind control, it will always be difficult to grasp. Consider yourself fortunate.
Vic said...
Until you have personally experienced mind control, it will always be difficult to grasp. Consider yourself fortunate.
Jeff said...
That is so true. I can't believe some of the things that I bought into while I was in the NTCC. I couldn’t have understood had I not gone through it.
Much of the NTCC ways were kept hidden from me and not only that, I wanted to see the best in those NTCC pastors and leaders. I certainly wasn't trying to find fault. Some of their ways simply couldn't be overlooked but that was years and years after I had been in. I finally came to the conclusion that I was no longer interested in overlooking their abusive, greedy ways any longer, and that is why I'm here.
I'm trying to help others see much sooner what took me so long to figure out.
On to a different point: Within the last 30 minutes, I finished talking to an NTCC minister who told about a few more NTCC horror stories. Even though it was nothing I hadn't heard before, my blood began to boil as he told me about a few of his NTCC experiences. I can not divulge the information now, but the cat will get let out the bag when the time is right. What happened to this Brother at the hands of the NTCC leadership is very sad and sickening.
I no longer have any respect for RWD, Olson, or Kekel. Those guys are as tricky as they can get.
Hey Jeff,
I shot you an email suggestion to see if someone could discuss what we wives went through. Did ya get it?
Waiting to Exhale
WTE: I just checked my email and I didn't see it? Did you send it to my yahoo or netzero. If you are wondering, I don't have my email address posted openly because I don't want it to get filled up with spam.
Call me at 404-405-7842 so I can confirm that you have my right email address.
Jeff
WTE: By the way. I would welcome the opportunity to discuss what NTCC wives went through. Unfortunately I have a first hand experience and one that I am not too proud of because I'm sure that my wife experienced some of the same stuff. I wish that I would have stood up for her more than I did. I did stand up for her but not as much as I should have and that probably bothers me as much as anything about my experience with the NTCC.
I Should have stood up right in the middle of a church service and yelled right back at pastor Mayers who decided to blast my wife because she got sick and tired of putting up with his mess and I told him that she was going to stop teaching Sunday school.
I took my family and we left his church shortly after but not soon enough.
She endured some serious verbal abuse from him and it was totally uncalled for. I will guarantee that she was the best Sunday school teacher that he ever had. That is not to put down the others but believe me when I tell you that she went way above and beyond. You wouldn't believe the time and money that she invested just putting together one Sunday school lesson. What thanks did she get? She got blamed if a family didn't show back up for church because Mayers would say that if the Sunday school teacher was doing her job the family would come back. He often blamed my wife and the other Sunday school teachers for his failures. He used them as his scapegoats. He really dogged out the Sunday school teachers terribly and they all left his church and they ultimately all left NTCC and I know that for a fact. Not one remains.
I would gladly post what NTCC wives experienced.
Jeff
Well lets see. I was a Church memeber and enjoyed attending ntcc. Then we went to BS. Got there and found out we had to get permission to stay with another brother and his wife. we laughed at this,thought it was a joke. Sadly,it was no joke.
Then we get to Church in the small stone church. This was before it was open to the public. RW bashed,bashed and bashed some more. I can remember coming out of those service's steaming mad. He put down all women in general. As if all women were busybodies,all wanted to shop and waste money,all wanted diamonds and chandliers.... He must not have had a loving mother. I think he hate's women. And wants to keep them in there place and don't come out of it. Or else,your bashed back down.
My story is very mild compared to some. But I kept to myself. Did not try and brown nose up to the Tanya or Verna. I did clean Tanya's house a couple time's. I did that thinking it was being a blessing and would be fun to clean and fellowship. Until a much younger lady tried to correct me and was very smug about it. The redneck in me reared up. It wasn't as fun as I thought it would be. Yes,we were her maids!
One time I was called out was in a class run by rw. I was whispering in class. And He made me come up to the front after class. He didn't read me the riot act. But I felt humilated.
Sure other ladies have worse horror stories then mine.
CM
CM,
I always hated the "men you shouldn't let your wives..." speeches.
Waiting to Exhale
I always stuck up for my wife. Either to Pastor Davis directly (after a fellowship meeting during fellowship), or by telling my wife what he said in a Conference didn't apply to her, regardless of what it was, or if he said it applied to all the Sisters (which he often did).
I immediately recognized my wife's value as a person, and a Christian, the moment I first met her. The more I get to know her, the more impressed I am with her. She fails to disappoint.
Yes, I do tell her all this. She is highly prized by me, and I make sure she knows it, and hears it often.
My wife is without fault, as far as I am concerned. Even when she is wrong. What I mean by this is if she ever reacts 'wrong,' or does something 'wrong' it is usually because of my momentarily poor husband communications skills.
Over the course of our marriage, I have had to apologize to her about ten times as much as she to me.
pdq
to pdq: you go guy!
to: CM
he bashed women about shopping and wanting diamonds and chandaliers?
gees, don't his wife and daughter have those things?
to Jeff:
mayers blamed your wife if a family didn't come to church. wow, that reeks of denis. what a loser (whoa, is that too harsh?).
some preachers just don't get it. THEY are the reason most people don't come back. so, they blame the congregation when people don't come back but the preacher takes the credit when the families come back and the church grows. yea, riiight.
signed, polaris
CM said...
"I did clean Tanya's house a couple time's. I did that thinking it was being a blessing and would be fun to clean and fellowship. Until a much younger lady tried to correct me and was very smug about it. The redneck in me reared up. It wasn't as fun as I thought it would be. Yes,we were her maids!"
Jeff said...
The Kekels are pimps. They surely prostitute their congregation by letting them clean their house. Kekel and Tanya; the Pimp and Pimpstress. They need to clean their own house. I know ya all just wanted to be a blessing and get a chance to talk to Tanya and all of that I do understand. I don't care what anyone says; they were WRONG for allowing it. I didn't have my platoon members come over and clean my house. That is using them. I wouldn't have allowed them had they asked. What does Kekel think? That he is some kind of master? I know of no other church ever, that has their church members come to clean the leaderships house.
I am mixing no words here. I can't stand the Kekels because of how they use people and it totally makes me sick.
Too many folks in the organization know this stuff goes on and their sense of judgment is warped because of all the brain washing.
Jeff
t said...
i had only been a chrisian for a short time but did not find tithing in the NT
Are you Church of Christ? Do you believe we shouldn't have musical instruments? You asked a creation question in another thread, what do you believe happened? I'm sorry you don't like people who post as anonymous, but your excuse for just using t as your signoff doesn't justify it. I don't have a problem with anonymous, but if you are going to be upset at others for posting anonymously, you need to just post your real name. Your relatives can't control you and they won't get in trouble for you. If you think they can get into trouble for what you do, then you have bought into the lie.
"anonymous"
no i am not in the church of Christ....you forgetting, your the one in the cult, not me
could you elaborate on 'tithing' being taught in the NT?
it must be strictly from the new testament, not the old testament and not the Davis testament
i dont claim to be a genius or Bible expert but i do study my Bible and not listen to hours of childish preaching and i will think and reason and use logic
the notable Bible teacher John MacArthur stated that if you want to develop a good systematic theology dont read books on it but actually teach the whole bible thru and you will develop a sturdy theology of your own.....yes your own, not some religiously veiled witch doctor (davis) and his band of hapless, thoughtless, cowards
think about that for a bit, maybe give it a try
your truly, the one and only....
'T'
for the record:
"his band of hapless,thoughtless cowards"
refers to those in high leadership who know they are doing wrong but continue anyway for the sake of gain
not the truly godly men who have been duped by this hillbilly version of benny hinn
t
i was wondering if someone could post rwd's phone number? i have a question for him and would like to address him personally
thanks,
t
t said...
no i am not in the church of Christ....you forgetting, your the one in the cult, not me
could you elaborate on 'tithing' being taught in the NT?
I don't think you understood my question, I'll ask again:
"Are you Church of Christ? Do you believe we shouldn't have musical instruments? You asked a creation question in another thread, what do you believe happened?"
The reason I ask it that way is that the doctrine of the Church of Christ is that because there is no teaching in the New Testament about using musical instruments, we should not use them. They go as far as to say that musical instruments are not to be included in worship of God. We are to worship him in our hearts, quietly.
So, you're not in Church of Christ, kind of sounds like you have your own doctrine... hmm. Well, if we can't abide by something that is taught in the Old Testament simply because it is not reiterated in the New Testament, what about worship to God? How is it to be performed?
We need some sort of guideline on what is to be considered Old Testament only and done away with and what we are still expected by God to do.
First of all, what does away with Old Testament teaching? What is it that the testament is all about? If we read Hebrews chapter 9 we get a good idea of what a testament is. So the New Testament was brought about by Christ. What was done away with? There is still a need for church leadership. There is still a need for organization. How could that which is meant to support these things be done away with? Maybe if you will consider these questions and apply some study to them, you can come up with better theology than you have so far.
I may be mistaken, but I thought you wanted to conceal your identity because you were afraid that some of your relatives who are still in NTCC would get in trouble because of you. Now you want to call Pastor Davis? Strange... very strange.
anonymous,
your comments and questions are so confused and misguided that it would take be hours to undo the nest of biblical misunderstanding that you have just entangled yourself in.
seriously, just for starters, christ has done away with the law and we are no longer under the law
with your thinking then we can assume that the roman church is pretty much right on with their OT pomp and ritual
i really hope to god that you are not an ordained minister, you really have no understanding of scripture and will only lead people into error
no offense intended, but that is my honest opinion
try to read your Bible without the bias of the blowhard causing you confusion
and how would callind Davis reveal my identity, i merely have a question for him, and i will be respectfull to a degree, becuase of his age
t
Oh, so when he says, "who is this?" you are going to conceal your identity? Have fun with that.
T,
You're wasting your time trying to call Davis. First of all, he doesn't have the guts to talk to you personally; and second, he will have his wife answer the phone- and she will never let you talk to him no matter how sincere you are. Happens every time.
...however if you called and said you were the voice of God...he wouldn't recognize it.
i get the feeling that the "anonymuos" that is correspondig with me is Ashmore
i wonder, hmmmm...strange, very strange
of course we will never know because ntcc policy is "always tell the truth" unless....it isnt convenient, then conceal it and outright lie if necessary
so...am i right?
t
There is no telling t.
Jeff
the reason i said that it may be ashmore is because i have listened to dozens of his sermons and you have to admit for all his showmanship his doctrine is probably the most "disturbed" out of the whole bunch of them
now ashmore is a man who offers "strange fire" on the altar to say the least
ive listened to a couple of his sermons and thought i was at a gathering of voodoo witch doctors
he be a couple bullets short of loaded
t
I do understand t. I watched Ashmore have a brother open and close his wallet high in the air because the brother was praying for money.
It was certainly an odd thing to witness to say the least. You never know, but it seemed like a big show to me. I know one thing for sure. Ashmore is one seriously charismatic dude without a doubt. I have heard NTCC ministers preach against some of the same type of pentecostal stuff that he practices. If nothing else and you felt like acting a little crazy, Ashmore could make service kind of wild in a crazy kind of way. Who knows exactly how Godly it really was though. I am very skeptical about that kind of stuff. The Pentecostals do that kind of stuff all the time and so does Ashmore.
He sure did put on a show and no one can deny that.
Jeff
Jeff,
Ashmore told J.C. MacDonald "Your not going to leave your wife in your house with me alone in it are you?"
Rev MacDonald "No, Sir"
Then he preached later on "What's to say God didn't cause the [Korean] economy to crash so you (Rev MacDonld) could afford to pay the Church rent" or words along that effect.
Then I thought, FAR OUT!!
BRO Johnson
MLJ
mlj,
could you elaborate a little more on that story, im having a hard time following, i wasnt 'in" so probably dont grasp all this as quickly
thanks,
t
T,
One of the many rules is that you are not allowed to be alone with the opposite sex in certain situations. For instance, if I had a female house guest over and was called for a 300am alert, I would have to take my spouse with me or my friend.
You are not supposed to talk on the phone with married members of the opposite sex..lest both of you be over come with lust(whatever).
Even though I am out of NTCC, I still feel weird when talking to brothers on the phone lol.
WTE
Rev. Ashmore is certainly a showman, and a thoroughly peculiar man.
pdq
pdq said...
"Rev. Ashmore is certainly a showman"
Jeff said...
No doubt. Quite the charismatic to say the least.
Jeff
mlj,
could you elaborate a little more on that story, im having a hard time following, i wasnt 'in" so probably dont grasp all this as quickly
thanks,
t
T, sure.
Back in 1996-1997 the Korean economy went through what we are experiencing right now: A Recession.
At the time, the WON, the Korean currency, was stronger against the dollar, which caused renting a building in Seoul more expensive than the years prior.
A typical month's rent is over a thousand dollars.
It was hard for Rev Macdonald to get a foothold in Seoul due to the high cost of living over there.
Then, the economy crashed. Everything was like literally 50% off overnight. The IMF had to bail the Korean economy out of their recession.
The GI Joe deployed at Korea at the time was banking because they could buy $2.00 worth of Korean money for one American dollar.
Well, the math is simple. If you normally pay $1,000 for rent and your rent is cut in half, your only paying $500 a month verses $1,000 a month.
Around the time the economy crashed, Rev MacDonald secured a house basement to be used for church service.
Later on, he rented the upstairs part of the building as well. Rev Ashmore then comes to Seoul, Korea to visit Rev Macdonald and his wife.
Then he made the super spiritual statement that God caused the Korean economy to crash so Rev Macdonald could rent a building to hold church services.
I do not think God works like that, although with God all things are possible. Rev Macdonald simply took advantage of the situation and there is nothing wrong with that.
The guy Ashmore was out there. Out there with the aliens!!
Ashmore later tells me in an email that, God willing, there will be a work in Seoul starting up soon.
Hey Ashmore - there was a work there already established. it closed down. It does not make sense to open up another work when all the Soldiers are moving down south to Area III.
Bro Johnson
This is something about ntcc that is completely idiotic. The statement that God caused the Korean economy to crash for one little church. I mean, let's look at the BIG picture. The economy crashing also affected poor people, who maybe couldn't afford to buy food anymore; or maybe lost their jobs. But on the positive, the Mormon's and JW's rent also went down-- helping their churches.
Ntcc wants to really believe that God has the whole universe revolving around their feeble, pathetic, abusive little church.
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