Thread #22
The few wealthy in the NTCC watch the poor struggling church members and Bible school students clean their houses. It is like paying tribute to Caesar. How in the world did this ever get started? How is it that people ever dreamed up going over to the Kekels house to clean it? Having to get on a list? That is absurd!!! Is Tanya Kekel your master and are you her slave? Ching, ching! There may be no other group in the entire United States where people are on a waiting list to clean someone else's house. It is absolutely amazing how brainwashed the Kekels have their church members. Tell me one time in your life, prior to entering the NTCC, that you went out of your way to clean someone else's house? Kekel was a military guy, who became a minister, and now he has seemingly an endless supply of WOMEN who very often are other men's wives, jumping hand over foot to rush over to his house to clean it? WHAT IN THE WORLD IS GOING ON? THE KEKELS ARE USING PEOPLE!!!!!!! Men don't let your wives clean another mans house for cheese points. Are you out of your mind? Has your wife become the Kekel's part time maid and church member at the same time? Have you military guys every let your wife go clean the Commanders house? So why in the world are you letting her go and clean Kekels house. Because you want cheese points, plain and simple. Come clean my house and God will bless you? The only one getting blessed is the one that is getting their house cleaned while the person doing the cleaning is being played. I'm not trying to offend anyone of hurt anyone's feelings. I'm being real. Hey; I got played for a sucker for years by the NTCC, so the shoe fits me also and I don't have any choice but to wear it. NTCC WOMEN: Stop going to clean another mans house, who already has a wife, who tells you which corners to look for dirt in!!! I don't think that I have ever seen worse psychological manipulation in my life. I don't know whether to have utter disdain for the Kekels or to admire them for their utter brilliance? What do I have to do to convince an endless supply of WOMEN to come over and clean my house? Just line up girls and I'll have the MOP ready. Don't miss the TOILET and you'll be blessed!! I'm not being serious here, but I am trying to make a point that might just help some folks to wake up out of the trance that the NTCC has them in, so they can see things for exactly how they are.
The house cleaners deep down inside feel that they are getting into the good graces of the quote “MAN OF GOD”, and consequently will receive blessings for their sacrifice or they simply want cheese points. Some of them just want to see the big beautiful house with the hard wood floors, that they feel they may only ever dream of owning. There are plenty of museums around folks. Others just want a chance to talk to Tanya and Sis Davis. Well go talk to them, but they don't have to allow you to go clean their house. I have a decent house and there is a picture of it down a few threads on this blog. If someone is interested in seeing me, my wife, or our house, that is fine but I am not going to let them in to clean it. My friends don't come over and clean my house! PERIOD! I don't use people like that. If dinner is cooked here, they may want to help and clean the dishes because somethimes it is just good decency, but you ain't cleaning the rest of my house.
What a farce. Clean the house of someone who has far more money and assets than most people will ever even dream of? The head honchos ought to be ashamed that they even allow their Christian Brothers and Sisters to perform such a task. Clean your own house you pimp. They are reliving the days of Solomon. Davis and Kekel are sorry, greedy pimps that prostitute their Brethren and Tayna is the pimpstress. I don’t care if they pay you a chump salary. What Company Commander have you ever known that has paid one of their privates to come and clean their home? NONE!!! Why? Because it is poor leadership. Kekel: You are their pastor, not their pimp.
What about those women being keepers at home. That means being a good house keeper at YOUR OWN HOME. To be domestically inclined doesn't mean to go to someone else's house to clean. The word domestic means YOUR place of residence. It also doesn't mean go clean someone else's home who is way richer than you are. The Kekels could afford a full time maid. Mrs Kekel: Are you too good and busy to clean your own house? I could see a good, close friend just happening to come over and just deciding to help out but none of these ladies are close friends with Tanya. They will never be Tanya's close friends because the NTCC is set up exactly like a CASTE SYSTEM that incorporates NEPOTISM. That is a bad combo for a church and that is "The NTCC Way." That is something that you would see in a family business; not a church. Isn’t Kekel’s wife also supposed to be a quote “keeper at home” as you put it? I guess the scripture that the NTCC teaches doesn’t apply to Mrs. Kekel? Can a Sister clean your home for pay but not get a job? Oh I forgot again, silly me, the sisters can only perform the jobs that the NTCC assigns.
Sisters; you are being used, tricked, and duped and your life is worth more than these controlling guys make it out to be. Yes the man is the head of the house and I am not backing up from that, but the Bible never suggested that the only thing that a woman can do is be a house keeper and especially not for someone else who happens to be her pastor and his wife. Read Proverbs chapter 31 lady's. Sister Kekel is too good, busy, and important for all of that MENIAL labor I guess? Power and position has clouded their judgment. Bottom line. They are using the good people and they are really using the women.
Jeff Collins
404-405-7842
35 comments:
Jeff,
I have told this story before, I am sure. I remember sitting around the fellowship table with the sisters and the pastor's wife. I asked how is sister so -and- so in bible school? Here I was expecting a scholastic report and the Pastor's wife tells me "Sister So-so is doing good! She got to clean Sister Keckel's house!" Wow I guess that is their equivalent of making the dean's list! You should have seen the look on my face!
WTE,
so true about it being a so called privlage to clean Tanya's home. I remember being nervous asking her. If I could come and clean her house. How crazy is that. I would rush through my own work and get those notes types. Just so I could drive from Tacoma to TK house. Clean,chat,and eat a snack. Then head home to try and make some supper and rush off to class or Church.
CM
or asking permission to mow his lawn.
Jeff,
It reminds me of the story of Tom Sawyer, where he was told to whitewash the fence and he didn't want to do it. So he came up with this farfetched story to con all his friends, and he got them fighting over the chance to whitewash the fence. It was brilliant psychological manipulation. They were paying him to whitewash the fence he didn't want to do. Sounds alot like Kekel and Davis.
Take a job that is beneath you-- like cleaning your OWN house, or washing your OWN car, or shining your OWN shoes-- and convince people what a blessing it would be to THEM if they did it for you. Brilliant! If Sigmund Freud were alive he'd be taking notes on all of this.
This occurs because ntcc puts it's leaders on a pedestal so high, that they are looked at as being next to Jesus on the throne. Nothing could be farther from the truth. They are just mortal men, and alot of them aren't very good at that. But being power-hungry individuals they love it. And those brothers and sisters low on the totem pole fawn all over them and beg them to let them be their slaves. I know-- I did it myself.
It's like the white slaveowners of the South. They may have treated the slaves OK, but at the end of the day everyone knew that the Master and his wife went up to their big white house, and rest of them went back to their shacks. Welcome to ntcc.
Anonymous: Super excellent post. You are right on the money. Bravissimo!!!
That is the NTCC in a nutshell. Nothing else to be added here because you said it all.
Jeffrey Collins
..don't be a "house" slave
WTE
Jeff said..."Men don't let your wives clean another mans house for cheese points. Are you out of your mind? Has your wife become the Kekel's part time maid and church member at the same time?"
How about this, these 'Kekel maids' are really full time maids and church members, but only part time spouses, and Mothers?
Good points Jeff, great insight: spot on and sickening. It's not, "Well they volunteered, so who am I to say no, and rob them of a 'blessing?'"...It's, why wouldn't you think this is wrong, and tell the Sister she has enough responsibility taking care of her own home, husband, children; plus being 100% faithful to NTCC's overfull schedule?
Even if your troops are willing to work themselves to exhaustion a real leader will stop them out of concern for their welfare.
If my wife needed help around the house I would help her myself, regardless of how busy I was. We know Rev. Kekel doesn't work on his blog or NTCC's website.
That is what a real man, and Pastor, and leader would do. If Tanya had any character she would take pride, or satisfaction in caring for her own home. That sense of accomplishment that comes from a job personally well done. If her house is too big for her to take care of they should get a smaller house.
None of this would matter if these married women were paid the going rate for their services. A worker is worthy of their hire. The office workers, and building crew are under paid also.
This NTCC loophole 'policy' states, "If thou art a women thou shalt not work outside the home... unless it is for free, or your first name is Tanya." What?
The Sister above commented, "I would rush through my own work and get those notes types. Just so I could drive from Tacoma to TK house. Clean, chat, and eat a snack. Then head home to try and make some supper and rush off to class or Church."
I doubt if this 'snack' consisted of anything other than the free day/week old baked goods that are given out at the fellowship hall.
What an outrage! What a total lack of discernment on NTCC's part!
pdq
I would like to share some personal insights regarding excerpts from an email, purportedly sent by Rev. Kekel to a Tom, on 23 March 2009 (The ♫♪ is where I am ‘chiming’ in.)…where Rev. Kekel ‘explains’ how he came by his wealth—how we can do it too—just do what he does, and we can also have what he has:
Rev. Kekel reveals his ‘secret’…“God has been very good to me and [♫♪ Me to, what’s next? ♫♪], what I was taught since first coming into NTCC, I have tried to put to work. [♫♪ I did more than try, I did it; what’s next? ♫♪] In a nutshell it is this: Thankfulness is the key to blessings. [♫♪ Agreed, what’s next? ♫♪] Put God and your obligations to Him first, [♫♪ I do, what’s next? ♫♪] then pay yourself [♫♪ I do, what’s next? ♫♪]. Sacrifice now for rewards later [♫♪ I do, what’s next? ♫♪]. Do not live beyond your means [♫♪ I don’t, what’s next? Also, Rev. Kekel states, how he has lived since 1985 is within his means, which is our point…again, what other non-Executive Board member Minister lives like, or could live like the Kekel’s? ♫♪], do not buy what you can’t pay cash for (with the exceptions of a vehicle and real property). [♫♪ I don’t, what’s next? So all their furnishings, and other possessions were paid for with cash? Who else could furnish a house the way the Kekel’s do with cash? Rev. Kekel is unintentionally supporting our assertions. So much for his purported ‘spartan’ budget! ♫♪] Make your money work for you. [♫♪ You have to be able to save money to have any to invest, and I was never able to get to this point. Is this why I am broke? ♫♪] Never resent the blessings of others (the sin of covetousness) [♫♪ I don’t, what’s next? ♫♪] because God can’t bless sin. [♫♪ Agreed, what’s next? ♫♪] Rejoice when others succeed [♫♪ I do, what’s next? ♫♪], knowing that if they did it, you can too.” [♫♪ I do all Rev. Kekel commends to Tom, and then some, but I am still broke after almost 20 years with NTCC, see my/our point. This is why I continue to ask, “What is your real secret?” ♫♪]
And he goes on…“My wife and I began our married life with these principals over 25 years ago [♫♪ I did too, just not as long ago. Is this why I am broke? Although, Rev. Kekel was able to pull of remarkable results in just 2 years, and I have been married a lot longer than this, and applying the “Pastor Davis wealth building plan” the whole time. ♫♪], living on a very spartan budget [♫♪ I do too, what’s next? ♫♪] and committed to saving 20% of our income. [♫♪ More than 20% for me (which I had to spend on Conferences, frequent moves, etc.) Is this why I am broke? What’s next? ♫♪] I’ve never in my life bought a brand new car [♫♪ I have, with 0% down and 0% interest, is this why I am broke? What’s next? ♫♪], much of the equity in my home is of the sweat variety (mine and others who’ve wanted to sweat with me). [♫♪ I have never owned a home. Is this why I am broke? What’s next? ♫♪] I’ve been in full time ministry since 1982, that’s over 26 years of putting God first and He’s taken good care of me. [♫♪ What form has Rev. Kekel’s ‘full time ministry’ taken though? Is working in the office, and granting people ‘policy’ permission a ‘ministry?’ He was not ‘Junior Pastor’ of the already set up and running church at Graham until about 8 years ago (Pastor Davis has always been the ‘Senior’ Pastor), and Graham has another Pastor now. I have only been in the Ministry for about 20 years. Is this why I am broke? But, I was the ‘always away from Graham’ type of Pastor. Is this why I am broke? What’s next? ♫♪] I give Him all the glory for what I have [♫♪ Me too, what’s next? ♫♪] and He knows that it’s all His! [♫♪ Agreed, what’s next? ♫♪] If you really knew us, you would never say the things that you do.” [♫♪ But, we do ‘know’ you (as much as anyone in NTCC can ‘know’ anyone else in NTCC) from watching you for decades, and seeing how you live, which is why we say the things we do, and ask the questions we do. Also, I do all Rev. Kekel commends to Tom, and then some, but I am still broke after almost 20 years with NTCC, see my/our point. This is why we continue to ask, “What is your real secret?” What’s next? ♫♪]
♫♪ I understand about ‘paying yourself’ 20% for the entire time Rev. Kekel has been married, we were ALL taught this (well, we were taught 10%, Rev. Kekel’s zeal for gathering money to himself, through savings, is commendable). But, let’s do some math…Rev. Kekel ‘says’ he saved 20% of his income for the entire time he and Sis. Kekel were married. This is almost 26 years from 1983 to 2009. If Rev. Kekel made $52,000 per year ($1,000 per week) the entire time they have been married, and saved 20% of this, this would equal $270,400. Did they put this all in savings bonds?. This is what Rev. Kekel could/should have in savings right now, or is this what made possible his superior lifestyle (especially after only 2 years)? Is this what he wants us all to believe? Is this how he was able to build a house in Graham in 1985, only two years after he married Tanya? All he has is only worth $270,400? We picked $50,000 as the median salary per year because we assume he made quite a bit less than this in 1983, and makes quite a bit more than this in 2009. $52,000 a year in 1983 was quit a bit of money. $52,000 a year is still a lot of money in 2009, or at least very much more than EVERY non-Executive Board member NTCC preacher can ever hope to see in a year, regularly. Again note, this $270,400 is just savings. ♫♪
♫♪ Let’s do a yearly ‘spartan’ budget estimate for Rev. Kekel…
10,400 – Savings ($200/week, more than this for me. But, it was spend on mandatory Conferences, moves less than every two years, etc.).
5,200 – Tithe ($100/week, also what we gave).
4,160 – Offerings ($20/service total for Tanya, Grant, and Rev. Kekel, also what we gave).
2,000 – Offerings to other Ministers, and church members (Less than what we gave).
120 – World missions (Tanya and Rev. Kekel; also what we gave).
100 – Ordained Minister license fee for Tanya and Rev. Kekel. ($90 is what we gave)
10,000 – Private schooling for Grant (This is an average cost of what they may have spent then, and what they spend now. Also, we don’t have any children [do you know why], is this why we are broke?).
7,800 – Medical, Dental, and Vision coverage (we were told not to get this, as one of NTCC’s ‘policies’)
2,000 – Life Insurance for $500,000 each for Tanya and Rev. Kekel. (we were told not to get this, as one of NTCC’s ‘policies’)
2,600 – Food @ $50/week (also what we spent).
7,000 – Clothing/Cleaners. ($2000 each for Tanya and Rev. Kekel, and $3,000 for Grant, also what we spent).
7,800 – Utilities @ 150/week (Gas/Propane, Electricity, Water, Phone, Cell Phone, Trash, Internet and/or Cable/Satellite Service, for a 2,500 sq. ft. home; this is an average footage of what they may have had then and what they may have now).
5,200 – Gasoline ($100/week, also what we spent).
4,000 – Loss of pay to take off from work for four weeks, for two conferences (what it cost us, although Rev. Kekel gets 30 days paid vacation/year; according to NTCC’s bylaws).
2,500 – Actual cost to go to two conferences from within the contiguous 48 (what it cost us, although Rev. Kekel is authorized an Organizational vehicle and gas card; according to NTCC’s bylaws).
$70,880 – TOTAL ♫♪
♫♪ They may not have to tithe. May not have medical, dental, vision, life insurance. May give more (or less) than $20 each service, may give more (or less) to other Ministers, etc. ♫♪
♫♪ Not included in the above budget:
- Various lessons for Grant.
- What they pay people to clean their house, cut their grass, wash their vehicles, polish their shoes, baby sit Grant, sew their window treatments, etc.
- Mortgage payment(s).
- Property Taxes.
- Home Insurance.
- Vehicle payment(s).
- Vehicle maintenance. (oil, tires, etc).
- Vehicle insurance (2 cars, motor home, quad, motorcycle, etc.)
- Vehicle Registration (2 cars, motor home, etc.).
- Maintenance costs, Gardening costs.
- Entertainment expense (going out to eat, gifts, vacations, day-trips, etc.)
- Child/spousal support, which some of us pay (this is very common in NTCC, because of NTCC’s ‘policy’ of sanctioning divorces).
- Paying the Churches bills out of your own pocket, as the Pastor. (But, I am sure this is merely another NTCC ‘policy.’)
- Etc… ♫♪
♫♪ $52,000 – The Kekel’s average yearly income with no taxes deducted, for the past 26 years. ♫♪
♫♪ It needs to be noted: The Kekel’s have been living their current lifestyle for at least the last 24 years…Nice house, new Mazda 323 (leased), or leased/used Cadillac (or better) cars, etc., since 1985. This means they were able to pull all this off in 2 years, not the 26 years Rev. Kekel represents in his email(s). Please remember, Rev. Kekel was as broke as the rest of us when he was a student in the Bible College. Again, how did he do it? The numbers don’t add up. About 1985 they built their first new house in Graham (a whole two years after they married; Tanya would have been 18 and Rev. Kekel 28, by this time). This was around the time they had their Mazda 323. This vehicle was hand delivered to them in Washington from St. Louis, by a returning missionary, and leased new. That’s right, the returning Missionary served the stays-in-Graham office worker. ♫♪
♫♪ This also shows the ‘window’ for them to go out, and dig a work out (or Pastor an existing work), and apply what Pastor Davis ‘taught,’ was 2 years. When all the data is considered, the Kekel’s circumstances (and opportunities) for gathering wealth to themselves is completely unique among ALL non-Executive Board member Ministers in NTCC. No Minister in the Organization has even close to the same long term circumstances they do; let alone their results from applying the “Pastor Davis method” of wealth building after 2 years. For those who don’t know, the “Pastor Davis method” of wealth building is…“Buy EE Savings Bonds,” when you have enough…buy property. It’s that easy, and that’s it. Except if you often move (unlike the Kekel’s), you can’t really buy property, as you would be spending more and more time ‘trying’ to manage it from afar; and forget about visiting your property to see its condition, you have a church to run. But, this is all a moot point…you move so often, have so many conferences to go to, etc. you can’t ever save up enough to enter NTCC’s “real estate tycoon” club. I wonder how much in savings bonds Rev. and Sis. Kekel have, or Pastor Davis for that matter? Didn’t I ask this already? ♫♪
In His Service,
pdq
well, i know a long time ago kekel preached that he made his money from buying and selling properties.
A point is he was married in 1983 (according to him), and he built his first house in Graham in 1985. He had little money in Bible college, like the rest of us.
If he had financial help from his father-in-law to buy property fine. If he was given property by Pastor Davis fine. But, this is not what he shares in the email, or at any other time he has addressed this issue.
He says, "Do as I do, and you can have what I have" but, he must not be telling us the 'whole story.'
Many think he gets his money from the church, whether from a 'salary' or otherwise. He says it is his salary, yet he won't tell us how much. So, we look around, and see his mansion, expensive cars, etc. and wonder just how big his salary might be, while most other ministers in NTCC live below the national poverty average, while being away from Graham out in the field.
There is a huge disconnect between what he says and what we all observe.
pdq
Bravo Pdq I love how you break it down> I have thought many times of adding my two cents in after thirteen years in the org, and much of that time as a lay pastor, but I really have nothing to add after what you, and Casey Hayes have to offer. NTCC is exactly what you think it is, and that is a rip off organization designed to fuel snobs like the Kekels.
I find it interesting that if NTCC was such a blessing, and so many people within the organization really enjoyed it the way they claim they do... why aren't there more postings by faithful members on here? I mean really if I was as in love with something as so many of the faithful's claim they are... why wouldn't they be on here defending it with there last breath? But the truth is; blogs of this nature have began to reveal the truth that so many of the faithful's have struggled with for so many years that they find themselves in a place of indecision. They really know that what is written on here is absolute truth... don't you?
Man that flowed smooth, that was easy to write!
The truth is always easy to write.
pdq ♪♫♫♪♪♫♫♪♪.♫..♫...♪....♪.....♪..
I would also like to add, for further clarification...Yes, the 'big wigs' in NTCC often say they get their money from buying and selling property. Fine, many people do this, it’s a smart thing to do. But how did Rev. Kekel save up enough money to buy his first piece of property in 2 years? Through savings bonds? These took 7 years to mature back then (now it is about 21 years to mature).
Rev. Kekel shares, in part, in this email, "...My wife and I began our married life with these principals over 25 years as ago..." The only financial plan any of us were ever taught was buy savings bonds, then when you have enough, buy property. Rev. Kekel shouldn't have been able to build a house in two years, even buying two $100 bonds each week for the entire time he and Tanya were married (married in 1983) until they build their first house in 1985 (although, this was not quite a mansion).
If he built his first house with a bank loan, then there would have been even less of his ‘spartan’ budget to buy savings bonds or property with, as he would be repaying the note; but he also leased a car, and furnished the house.
Back in the day, Pastor Davis’ teaching was a sound plan designed to yield a comfortable retirement when you were in your 60's and 70's, if started in your 20's, and maybe even allowing you to start buying property when you were in your 40’s…but all the requirements to be a minister in NTCC precluded any of us saving enough money to buy property, or buying enough savings bonds to yield enough capitol to eventually buy property. How many of you said twice every year, “I would like to buy more savings bonds, I need to buy more savings bonds, but if I buy what I should, or enough to matter, I will not have the money to go to the next mandatory conference, and will therefore be in trouble…So I will buy what I can and hope for the best…that financially things will change.” We sure did, but the cash devouring mandatory requirements of NTCC never abated. And even in the 60's, 70's and 80's (when bonds still matured every 7 years) the "Pastor Davis wealth building system" wouldn't have enabled anyone to build a house 2 years after they started it…and he was also leasing a car, and furnishing the new house they just built in 1985. If the bank finances the house, he was still leasing a car, and buying furniture, etc. Or are we to believe they first lived on lawn chairs and packing crates, and slept on a mattress on the floor, in there newly built home? Rev. Kekel states in this email he pays cash for everything not cars and property, plus saved 20% of his income the entire time he has been married, this would include the 1983-1985 time-frame. That’s a lot of cash, no matter how you consider it, and I am trying to consider it anyway I can, to get my mind around it, and somehow see any validity in Rev. Kekel’s words…I will have to keep trying...
I have seen ministers in NTCC take out the envelope their savings bonds were in, to show me, and it looked like a three page letter was in it, and they had been ‘buying bonds’ for almost decades.
So how did/does he really do it?
In His Service,
pdq ♪♫♫♪♪♫♫♪♪.♫..♫...♪....♪.....
The only other ways I can think of, from which Rev. Kekel could have consistently done all he had simultaneously done (with regard to anything BUT property and cars, since he says he pays cash for everything else), after only 2 years of marriage, is by receiving a huge (define huge any way you like) salary from the Organization, and/or a cash, and/or a property gift (or gifts) from his father-in-law. Again this is fine, but that is not what he has shared to explain his wealth.
Has Rev. Kekel ever received an inheritance from a dead family member? How about during the 1983-1985 time frame? Does anyone know? Because this would be another explanation for his financial situation, and abilities. But, again, this is not what he has shared.
pdq
Pdq,
He receives a salary from the church and does not have to pay taxes? I know he probably opted out of Social Security.
WTE
And let's not forget the 39 acres that were given to him as a "gift" (a $350,000 value).
pdq,
i am the 'Tom' that had been corresponding with Kekel, if you notice at the end of the e-mail he basincally throws out a few insinuated insults at those who can't live up to his standard!!
one thing we do know, is that he recieved assets from all of you current/former ntcc members be confiscating the $400,000.00 property that was in the holding of a non-profit organization
i had a heart to heart with my 'relative' yesterday and explained to him its not so much the silly doctrines that bother me becuase christians have different understanding's and level's of conscience. but the blatant covetousness and disregard for other ministers is absolutely infuriating and im sure Jesus feels the same way (remember Judas was in seemingly in good standing amongst the disciples and was the "treasurer" but in the end it would have been better for him if he had never been born)
but, that is my brother, my sister in law, my nephews, my niece, i have a right to be angry when i see the lifestyle they live along with the rest of the ministers in contrast to mike and tanya
i wish i could do something to change it, but im no challenge to mind control (we pray for them everyday)
sincerely,
T
just for the record i will post the e-mail correspndence that i had with Mike K so pdq can be better understood:
mr kekel,
i have addressed you a number of times now and you refuse to respond, all i am asking is for you to be open and honest about your wealth so as to avoid any appearance of evil.
as a shepherd to all these you people and to have amassed this great wealth it surely gives the appearance of evil to those watching just like if a christian were to be seen with a known prostitute, you would ask that brother for an expanation and he may give a feeble "witnessing to her sir"
i am not asking you to be nosey, i have a brother in the org who has expressed to me that he may be a bit grieved by this appearance
so if you would clearly address these issues:
a) were you independently wealthy before attending bible school?
b)have you recieved an inheritance that is not associated with ntcc?
c)what is your total annual salary given to you by ntcc?
d) is the home you live in owned by ntcc and if not do you have a mortgage on the home?
e) how much is your monthly car payment (total) and, is it paid for by ntcc?
f) have you been given any other "gifts" by rwd over the last 20 years and if so what were they?
if you answer these questions im sure a lot of people would respect you a lot more and feel more at ease in knowing they are not being fleeced
thank you,
his response:
Hello Mr. -----
I beg your pardon for the delay in answering your message; I must admit I was surprised at the, dare I say, ‘audacity’ of some of your questions; topics that I was raised to believe are not discussed in polite company. I don’t even discuss my personal business with my own mother, and do you know she’s never even asked me the questions you posed? Be that as it may, your assumptions about my ‘vast wealth’ were amusing to me, and if you knew me and were around to observe for yourself, you would see that we do not live a vastly wealthy lifestyle, and that I cannot at this time “quit my day job.”
God has been very good to me and, what I was taught since first coming into NTCC, I have tried to put to work. In a nutshell it is this: Thankfulness is the key to blessings. Put God and your obligations to Him first, then pay yourself. Sacrifice now for rewards later. Do not live beyond your means, do not buy what you can’t pay cash for (with the exceptions of a vehicle and real property). Make your money work for you. Never resent the blessings of others (the sin of covetousness) because God can’t bless sin. Rejoice when others succeed, knowing that if they did it, you can too.
My wife and I began our married life with these principals over 25 years ago, living on a very spartan budget and committed to saving 20% of our income. I’ve never in my life bought a brand new car, much of the equity in my home is of the sweat variety (mine and others who’ve wanted to sweat with me). I’ve been in full time ministry since 1982, that’s over 26 years of putting God first and He’s taken good care of me. I give Him all the glory for what I have and He knows that it’s all His! If you really knew us, you would never say the things that you do.
Know this Tom, I have never taken anything from the church but my salary; I still pay tithe, give offerings and do my best to bless many of the ‘struggling ministers’ that you referenced. You should also know that not all of our ministers are struggling and below the poverty line; many of them live of the ministry, drive nice vehicles, own their own homes, have money in the bank, and children in private schools. Unfortunately this does not apply to all of them at present; but God has promised that He will give us the desires of our heart as we walk uprightly before him, that His blessings make rich, and that we’ve not forsaken houses or lands or anything that He’ll not give us more in this life and the life to come. On the other side of that coin are the words of Jesus, “the poor ye have with you always...” I think that maybe God was the original capitalist: He said, “If you don’t work you shouldn’t eat”, and that “the hand of the diligent shall be made rich.” In the parable of the talents he said to take from the one who didn’t put his talent to work and give it to the man who had the most. The New Testament states that “he that provideth not for his own is worse than an infidel to the denying of the faith.” By contrast, Socialists have the victim mentality; everything in their life is someone else's fault and everyone owes them something. They deserve handouts, and entitlements, because they’ve been mistreated, misunderstood or just unlucky. Unfortunately they’re missing the boat, not realizing that we make our own success or failure. Our life is determined not so much by our circumstances as by our choices.
I hope that this reply will answer your questions and allay your concerns.
God’s blessings to you and yours,
Yours In Him
Michael C. Kekel
and my response:
Hello Mr. Kekel,
Thank you for responding to my e-mail. I must admit I was surprised by the, dare I say 'elusiveness' of your answers, you truly did not answer a single one of my question's, as for 'audacity' I would suggest that you have brought that upon yourself by giving "the appearance of evil"
When you decided that you were "called" to be a 'minister' (greek: 'duolos' bond slave) you chose to be an example of what Godliness is and set your lamp upon a candle stand (so to speak) thus, opening yourself up to public scrutiny. please understand, I in no way am accusing you of being an over lord who only takes from the sheep, in fact, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt by coming out and asking you in a straightforward manner.
I must admit however, what I see within this organization causes me to question whether the shepherd's are true shepherd's indeed, as you remember a true shepherd lays down his life for his sheep, one of the very MAJOR concerns I had when I visited in '96' was the fact that these young people were doing all kinds of chores for the leaders, like taking out the trash, washing the cars etc... when I questioned a couple of the guys on this they simply said "it’s a blessing to serve pastor" ...Jesus makes it VERY clear that church leadership is supposed to be setting the example of service rather than being served, this is not what is taking place in Graham as far as I have seen and have heard multitudes of testimony regarding these actions on Tracy's blog
From the perspective of the "natural man" I cannot fault you and would probably have chosen the same route in regards to "taking over the family business" if you will, also I have no problem whatsover with a true capitalist and despise the idea of socialism, yet, when one takes on the role of a shepherd his sheep are not to be the means of his prosperity and if such is the case, well....you know what the Bible says about such people- "and through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgement now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not"
I have family in this organization and have every right to be concerned and alarmed, now I have another question that is not as 'private' as the others; will you explain to me and the others how this land "gifting" was legal? and if it was not do you have any intention of returning the land to the corporation?
I will be waiting for your response,
sincerely,
t
he did respond again,but it had no substance (not that this email did)
T
T,
I don't know if Rev. Kekel pays taxes. I do know, at times, the government has allowed ministers to opt out of Social Security. I believe the last time this was done WAS in the 80's. I merely was using $52,000 as a median salary to get some basic numbers out there concerning Rev. Kekel's 'spartan' budget, to illustrate how another one of his 'explanations' doesn't add up, when minimal thought is applied to it.
Instead of stating, "$52,000 – The Kekel’s average yearly income with no taxes deducted, for the past 26 years." I should have rather said, "Any taxes Rev. Kekel pays are also not included in this 'spartan' budget." Or wording to this effect. Good catch, sorry I wasn't more clear.
I agree with the rest of your points. Yes, the living standards our relatives, still in NTCC, are reduced to is infuriating, and aught to be criminal; especially when compared with how the 'big wigs' in Graham live; and especially to a Christian, which Rev. Kekel and company all claim to be.
I did write comments on the whole email, but the end result was too massive to post as a comment...what I did decided to post was too massive. I am training myself to shorten things up to an actual 'comment' length, but it seems to be taking some time.
pdq
Kekel's version of capitalism makes the socialists look good
btw- kekel is not a true capitalist, he is an 'oppurtunist'
opportunist: one who takes advantage of opportunities as they arise: as A: "exploiting opportunities with little regard to principle or consequences"
a capitalist actually considers hard work a good thing!!
t
My last comment about Rev. Kekel, and taxes should have been addressed to WTE not T.
Sorry,
pdq ♪♫♫♪♪♫♫♪♪.♫..♫...♪....♪.....
Casey said..."I would also like to add that I had to "cash in" my savings bonds early to pay for going to conference one time. And I wasn't the only one I know who did that."
I asked Pastor Davis at least two times about this. I told him we didn't have any money but the savings we weren't supposed to spend for any reason (this is what Pastor Davis teaches), so I can't come to the mandatory conference. Guess what his immediate answer always was?...No, that's wrong...He always said, "Conferences are mandatory, use your savings to come to conference. Whatever it takes, get here." To which I always replied, "Yes, sir!" and carted my family to another mandatory semi-annual conference; seeing my 'savings' zeroed out or greatly reduced once again. I stopped asking if I should spend my savings for conferences and moves, for about the last 17 years, because Pastor Davis' answer was always the same.
I never had to cash in my savings bonds, because I never bought too many, because I always waited until 'after' a mandatory semi-annual conference, or one of our frequent moves, to see how much cash I would have left over. It was never very much, if anything.
Is this why I am broke?
We moved an average of once every 21 months, for close to the last 20 years. This was always at Pastor Davis command. Sorry, we are to say 'policy' now...please, bear with me, I will get it eventually.
pdq ♪♫♫♪♪♫♫♪♪.♫..♫...♪....♪.....
PDQ,
Great points. I would also like to add that I had to "cash in" my savings bonds early to pay for going to conference one time. And I wasn't the only one I know who did that.
Rev. Kekel, I believe, is lying to us. First of all, we all know that when he married Tanya he was set up for life. Davis gave him a cushy long-term job (local pastor of Graham), where they never had to move or sacrifice in any way, shape or form. He may have made money buying and selling property and land, but he got his money from his cushy salary at his cushy job. Then he will turn around and say, "I didn't get my money from the church"-- when the profit he made was from property purchased with his church salary. It's a lie, and twisting the truth at the least.
I've shared many times that Davis is a Narcissist. One of traits of a narcissist is that they have to project success all the time-- and this includes the success of their children. He intentionally placed Tanya and Mike in a position where they could not fail (pastor of Graham where the BS students HAVE to attend and give). He also made sure that they were never put into a position where they could potentially fail-- like selling what you have, going out in the work, and having pioneer a church or pastoring a small church (like everyone else has to do).
As for him never buying as new car-- something is fishy here. His wife drove a brand new BMW 740 (or 750), which is a $100,000 car, and he told Scott Rickards that it was HIS car. I saw him driving a brand new Mercedes sports car ($65,000) for at least a month or two. So, if he is telling the truth, then he is driving new cars that he did not pay for. Either the church or Davis paid for them. Otherwise, he is lying about it all. Jeff Collins said that Kekel told him point blank that he did not have a sports car. He's lying, because I saw him driving one every day. So why is he hiding the facts? And why is he lying so much?
Jeff,
Tracy took her blog down?
Waiting to Exhale
I know and I was also told why. I talked to someone who knows, and is close to Brian and Tracy. Tracy has very legitimate reasons for taking down her blog. I understand, and I respect her decision.
It is my understanding that Tracy's views of the NTCC are still the same. There comes a time when you just have to move on. I haven't got to that point.
Well I guess the ball is in OUR court now because there is definitely a cause and of that I am convinced.
Jeff
pdq: Your input is appreciated very much. The statements that you made are significant and certainly should have an impact on the people who read them.
I'll talk to you later.
Jeff
Jeff,
I wish Tracy the best. I won't rest until they repent
You won't rest until who repents? The NTCC leadership?
Jeff
Bro Jeff,
Looks like you have Elijah's mantel now!!
I was wondering what happened top Tracy's Blog, seem slike the Baton has been passed to you my friend!!
I just got out of the field, I will graduate from ANCOC next Monday, Praise the Lord!!
Bro Johnson
Bro Johnson:
I'm happy for you. I was glad to finish ANCOC myself. I went to ANCOC from March to June 97. For all it is worth I did make the commandants list. I mentioned that because I know it is one of your goals. Good luck. I don't blame Tracy. I understand it was time for her to move on and I understand why. I'm sure that I will get to that point; I am just not there now. There is more to accomplish here.
Take care and good to hear from you,
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
I will miss Tracy's blog but I'd say she really put a dent in NTCC membership. Though they won't admit it. She was very successful.
I know the leadership is praising God that Tracy has closed her blog. But this is only the beginning. = ) Tracy and Brian were the fore runners and now there are more who have seen the light. One blog has closed, Tracy has her hands full caring for her Mom and other pressing matters that need attention. But now there are more who will sound the alarm to warn others and they'll carry on the work.
Nonymous
I would say that Tracy's was a very effective tool used to expose the NTCC. Her blog opened up the eyes of a many of people to the NTCC's ridicules practices and double standards.
Jeff
P.S. Below I am reposting a message that got somewhat buried by the announcement of Tracy's blog closure.
Here are the facts. You can not trust what Mike Kekel says and here is why. He categorically denied on his blog that certain NTCC mandates ever even existed. He insisted that the rules and the NTCC laws that we followed for years were merely suggestions all along and that is a lie and he knows it. Things like men not wearing skin tight pants or shorts were absolutely mandated rules and laws for any and all "Faithful" NTCC males, and Mike Kekel knows it.
So here is how I see it. If he would blatantly twist the truth which is the same as lying about those issues, he would twist the truth about anything, and he has proven to have the propensity to do exactly that.
When Victor insisted that Mike admitted to having close physical contact of the sexual nature with Tanya prior to them being married, Mike Kekels response was, "WE DIDN'T GO THERE." What in the world is "we didn't go there?" I know what it is and I am NOT STUPID. Making the statement, "We didn't go there" is a method used by Mike to not answer with any substance what so ever, but at the same time give the impression that actually answered. Didn't go where? Intercourse? Maybe not? Touching private parts? Probably so. Causing some good stimulation to reproductive organs? Most likely based upon what Victor said that Kekel told him and Victor's statement has been corroborated. So based on the FACTS that I have, Mike Kekel went somewhere with Tanya.
For the record; Vic didn't say or suggest that they had intercourse but he did say that Mike had told him years ago that they did some pretty good messing around with each other, and we can all figure out what kind of things are involved there and I don't think I need to spell it out. Not only that, Tanya was a young teenager. RWD would have jumped on anyone else for that same stuff and it was brought to his attention.
We all have bones in our closet and I could care less if Mike did mess with Tanya, but when you are a holier than thou hypocrite who practices double standards like Mike Kekel, people start to bring out your dirt. Especially when you have contributed to messing up the lives of so many people like the NTCC has so effectively done. Mike happens to be the CEO of the Corporation and like it or not, that makes him a prime target.
Jeff
'Tom’ said..."i am the 'Tom' that had been corresponding with Kekel, if you notice at the end of the e-mail he basically throws out a few insinuated insults at those who can't live up to his standard!!"
Yes I noticed this, and address it in a small part of my 'article' that I did not post here as a comment. Here is a small portion of those comments which I haven’t posted yet:
Rev. Kekel shares…Know this Tom, I have never taken anything from the church but my salary [♫♪ Me too, what’s next? Although, Pastor Davis has repeatedly shared he does not even ever receive a salary from NTCC, therefore maintaining his position as ‘top dog’ in the “sacrificing for God” verbal competition. ♫♪]; I still pay tithe [♫♪ Me too, what’s next? Although, I was discouraged from paying tithe on my Pastor’s ‘salary’ by Rev. Olson, so I didn’t…or maybe Rev. Kekel doesn’t either ? Actually, my ‘salary’ was an expense reimbursement which didn’t anywhere near cover all of NTCC’s Ministerial ‘policy’ requirements. So the debit was always more than the credit. Secular income always made up the difference, but NTCC’s ‘policy’ required me to send them tithe on any secular salary. ♫♪], give offerings [♫♪This is commendable, but me too, what’s next? ♫♪] and do my best to bless many of the ‘struggling Ministers’ that you referenced [♫♪ Me too, what’s next? This is also commendable, though used linen has sometimes sufficed in the past for Tanya. Anything is better than nothing…Right? We always needed our ‘used’ linen. Actually, most of what we ever had was used linen; although, I don’t know if we got it from Tanya or not? Anything is better than nothing…Right? ♫♪].”
♫♪ Rev. Kekel states his money only comes from his salary, but again, does he pay tithe on this? (again, Pastor Davis says he doesn’t get ANY money from the church). Yet, not long ago (1983) Rev. Kekel (and Pastor Davis) was as broke as the rest of us. This Rev. Kekel quote shows Pastor Davis was also broke when he started the Organization…"I met Pastor Davis when he didn't have any money or good houses or good cars, and I married his daughter because she was cute not because I was trying to get rich" Is this supposed to be a consolation…he married her because she was cute? He didn’t marry her because he had sexually defiled her when she was between the ages of 13 and 16, and he was 23 through 26? So he didn’t marry her so he could play with her body legally? It wasn’t a decision driven by the condemnation his conscience should have given him? Pastor Davis approved of this unholy union; even after he had been informed of Rev. Kekel’s shenanigans with his only child (and she was a child), by much more discerning brethren. ♫♪
♫♪ Continuing…So, what is Rev. Kekel’s salary? Is it the $150 per week the Servicemen’s Home director gets? He says it was savings and putting God first (the way he states this sounds as if he thinks any one who is not full time, all the time, doesn’t put God first) that generated the wealth to fund his much less than ‘spartan’ lifestyle. Well, what we want to know is, what is his ‘real’ secret? None of us have been able to do what he has done financially in 26 years (actually in only two years, as you have seen above). I want to know his ‘real’ secret because the numbers don’t add up as being enough money to support his long standing lifestyle. I want to know his ‘real’ secret because he says (as does Pastor Davis), “Do as I do, and you can have what I have.” As we are demonstrating in this article, we have done all that Rev. Kekel has (and then some) and don’t have what he has after applying Pastor Davis ‘wealth building’ principles for almost 25 years.♫♪
♫♪ Many of us do what he does (except we are Pastoring churches away from Graham, moving regularly, etc.) and still don’t have any money; even after decades of service. Does Pastor Davis give him money? Did he receive an inheritance? If so, great, but that is not what Rev. Kekel has shared when trying to justify his lifestyle to others, or when teaching us the ‘secrets’ to his ‘not so vast’ wealth. Again, this is important because Rev. Kekel (and Pastor Davis) have repeatedly stated, “Do as I do, and you can have what I have.” Yet NOBODY lives the lifestyle of the Kekel’s or the Davis’, that is a non-Executive Board member Minister in NTCC, and the total count was 380 Ministers in 2006. The only conclusions I have come up with is Rev. Kekel is not telling us the whole story. He must receive very much money from NTCC in the form of ‘salary,’ money (or real estate) from another source, or sources, that the rest of us don’t have access to, or a combination of all three. Is his life style possible because of ‘savings’ and investments only? From Savings Bonds? After 2 years? Is having a house built two years after you are married living a ‘spartan’ life style? How about leasing a new car? How much property will $270,400 buy after the two years? Five houses? Four? One? But this $270,400 is what he could have saved in 26 years…not two years after he first married his barely post pubescent plaything, when his long term wealth began to publicly manifest itself. ♫♪
Rev. Kekel shares some more…You should also know that not all of our Ministers are struggling and below the poverty line; many [♫♪ Define many. ♫♪] of them live of the ministry, drive nice vehicles [♫♪ Define nice…make, model, year. ♫♪], own their own homes [♫♪ Define own. If they have a mortgage, they don’t ‘own’ it (says Pastor Davis). ♫♪], have money in the bank [♫♪ How much? $10 in the bank is money in the bank, and is this saving or checking. ♫♪], and children in private schools. [♫♪ How many, and what schools? Home schooling could be presented as a ‘private school’ by someone as adept at misinterpreting questions, and avoiding frank answers, as Rev. MC Kekel is. ♫♪]”
♫♪ One source tells us: In 2008, in the United States of America, the poverty threshold for a single person under 65 was US$11,201; the poverty threshold for a family group of four, including two children, was US$21,834. Rev. Kekel chose to use the word ‘many.’ But again, how many is many? Webster’s tells us: many - adj., more, most, n., pron. –adj. 1. constituting or forming a large number; numerous. –n. 3. a large or considerable number of persons or things. ♫♪
♫♪ So what is the percentage of non-Executive Board member Minister’s, that are full time, that consistently make more than $21,834 per year, or even $11,201 per year? Are there any? ♫♪
Rev. Kekel teaches ‘Tom’…[♫♪ I love when Rev. Kekel ‘teaches.’ ♫♪] Unfortunately this does not apply to all of them at present; [♫♪ Here comes the ‘teaching.’ ♫♪] but God has promised that He will give us the desires of our heart as we walk uprightly before him, [♫♪ He sure does. What’s next? ♫♪] that His blessings make rich [♫♪ I agree. What’s next? ♫♪], and that we’ve not forsaken houses or lands or anything that He’ll not give us more in this life and the life to come. [♫♪ The Bible does say this, but when has Rev. Kekel ever forsaken houses or lands (or anything)? For the first two years he was married almost 24 years ago? When he went to Bible College as a single G.I., fresh out of the active duty military? If so, since then it has been nothing but ‘fat city’ when compared to ALL non-Executive Board member Ministers in NTCC. Again, Rev. Kekel sharing he lives on a ‘spartan’ budget is not the same as living a ‘spartan’ life. 1 new house, 2 new Mansions, at least 1 new leased car, many used high end cars, very nice furniture (if you have been in his first house, or any of his 2 mansions, you know they only ever have the best), secular family vacations, all the secular toys of secular society, etc. As a bonus, they were ‘allowed’ to have a child also, since NTCC’s long standing ‘no children’ policy was only a ‘policy.’ Rev. Kekel recently taught us all this. We don’t have children. Is this why we are broke? Again, I love when he ‘teaches.’ Does anyone know if Panama had the same ‘night life’ as all the other foreign countries we have, or had, military bases in? E.g., the Philippines, South Korea, Japan, South Vietnam, etc. ♫♪]
Rev. Kekel teaches ‘Tom’ some more…On the other side of that coin are the words of Jesus, “the poor ye have with you always...” [♫♪ The Bible does record Jesus saying this. What’s next? ♫♪] I think that maybe God was the original capitalist [♫♪ I have heard many others say this. What’s next? ♫♪]: He said, “If you don’t work you shouldn’t eat” [♫♪ I agree, what’s next? ♫♪], and that “the hand of the diligent shall be made rich.” [♫♪ I agree, what’s next? ♫♪] In the parable of the talents he said to take from the one who didn’t put his talent to work and give it to the man who had the most. [♫♪ I agree, what’s next? ♫♪] The New Testament states that “he that provideth not for his own is worse than an infidel to the denying of the faith.” [♫♪ I agree, what’s next? I love this verse, and was surprised Rev. Kekel would ever publicly site it, as it directly contradicts NTCC’s ‘church before everything else’ organizational ‘policy.’ NTCC ALWAYS presents the choices of church and Ministry, OR family (Remember…“If you don’t like it leave.”). This is diametric to God’s word, which clearly presents the choices of God and ministry, AND family. Oh well, not everyone has a sound understanding of God’s word, or applies it in a balanced way. Bottom line is, what Rev. Kekel is directly saying is if an NTCC Minister doesn’t have any money it is because they have no desire for it, are not walking uprightly before Him, aren’t being blessed, haven’t forsaken houses or land or anything, don’t work, aren’t diligent, don’t provide for their own family. As far as talents go, you have to have a talent to put it to work for you. ♫♪]
And some more…By contrast, Socialists have the victim mentality [♫♪ I have heard this also. I am glad I am not like this. What’s next? ♫♪]; everything in their life is someone else's fault and everyone owes them something. [♫♪ I have heard this also. I am glad I am not like this. What’s next? ♫♪] They deserve handouts, and entitlements, because they’ve been mistreated, misunderstood or just unlucky. [♫♪ I have heard this also. I am glad I am not like this. What’s next? ♫♪] Unfortunately they’re missing the boat, not realizing that we make our own success or failure. [♫♪ This is true, we do make our own success or failure. What’s next? ♫♪] Our life is determined not so much by our circumstances as by our choices.” [♫♪ By ‘choices’ does Rev. Kekel mean his ‘choice’ of carnally (and criminally) playing with, and then marrying the then 13 thru 16 year old Tanya, when he was 23 thru 26 years old? This was the only discernable beginning of his success (his ‘involvement’ with, and later marriage to the child named Tanya Davis), that I have been able to identify. No thank-you, other than this ‘choice’ of Rev. Kekel, I am in complete compliance with all he shares with Tom regarding wealth building. Is this why I am still broke after almost 20 years of following these principles? Because I have never been a pedophile? Based on Rev. Kekel’s example, God blesses some mighty peculiar things! ♫♪]
♫♪ All this from the man who has been in Graham since at least 1985, with all the ‘perks’ of being an Executive Board member in NTCC. Who does Rev. Kekel think his audience is? Is ‘Tom’ a Minister in NTCC? If he is, has ‘Tom’ also been in one place for the last 24 years? Do the Ministers in NTCC consider the source, and compare their long term circumstances to Rev. Kekel’s and Pastor Davis’ actual long term circumstances, when gulping down their pap at conferences, church services, seminary classes, Bible studies, online, and elsewhere? ♫♪
Rev. Kekel closes by expressing his heart felt concern…I hope that this reply will answer your questions and allay your concerns. [♫♪ As always, Rev. Kekel’s self justifications garner more questions then they answered…any ‘concerns’ are not ‘allayed.’ ♫♪]
Yours In Him,
pdq ♪♫♫♪♪♫♫♪♪.♫..♫...♪....♪.....
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