Thread #20 I am starting this thread by quoting a statement that was made by MLJ in the previous thread and then of course I am showing my responce to his statement. Once again, I think this is very good stuff and it explains a lot about the NTCC.
"NTCC is one of MANY cults out there; some of which are far worse than NTCC. You can look at NTCC as "cult lite" as there are a few good ministers somehow by the Grace of God still in this defunctive organization, why that is I do not know."
Jeff said...
LOL. Ha, ha. "CULT LITE". Ha, ha. That was good MLJ. All the flavor without all the calories. They ruin folks lives without actually murdering them.
I know why it is that there are still good ministers in the defunctive organization. For all who don't know the word defunctive refers to the dead. The word dead found in the scripture referenced below is purely circumstantial as it relates to MLJ's statement / question but it is nevertheless applicable.
Rev 3:1 1/2 I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art "dead".
Jeff said... MLJ: Chapter 3 verse 4 answers your question.
Rev 3:4 Thou hast a few names "even" in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
Jeff said... Notice that I put quotation marks around the word "even". That is very important. What it's saying is that even in a thoroughly messed church there can still be good people but also notice the scripture only said a "few". I'm sure that it is very difficult to remain good in a thoroughly corrupt church because of all the bad influences. The other problem is that once you realize how crooked the NTCC really is, I would say it is your duty to leave.
How with a good conscience, are you going to willfully lead people into a trap?
What I am about to write is purely speculative but I strongly suspect that the folks in Sardis who hadn't defiled their garments hadn't been their long. Sooner or later the NTCC's bad ways will rub off on you or you will simply leave because you know what they do is WRONG.
Jeff
29 comments:
can anybody tell me how to find Davis's house on google earth?
thanks,
t
Cult lite !!!???
Less filling...and lots of calories to fuel endless soul-winning!
Waiting to Exhale
You know chief some people spend more time finding out about what kind of things are in the food they are about to ingest than about the church they are about to get into.
If people would only look a little closer to what they are being taught and manipulated into they would find out that it is better to not even touch it.
I don't think there is such a thing as a "lite cult" it's like saying: well the person was "half dead" You are either dead or alive.
Maybe the people that are in ntcc should feel good because well they aren't being manipulated to the extreme like the "moonies" or the "jonestown people"
I think not!
i would have to disagree with the last post-
ntcc is not a cult in the traditional sense of the term, it IS cultic
but...they do preach a crucified and risen lord and God will not honor ntcc so much as he will honor the name above all names, Jesus!
the ntcc leadership is laden with false teachers who use cultic tactics and are lead about by there own greed and will be judged for that with weeping and nashing of teeth and outer darkness
but..the faithfull to jesus who simply don't understand that they are being manipulated are Gods sheep who will inherit eternal life and not come into judgement
now...are job is to help make them aware of the circumstances they have fallen prey too and re-direct them to healthy churches where they can truly serve God and live a spiritually blessed life
t
www.homechurchhelp.com
dont prejudge the link i gave you.
you can read how to meet
and
how not to meet
really good stuff. take time to read it all.
T, you stated
"now...are job is to help make them aware of the circumstances they have fallen prey too and re-direct them to healthy churches where they can truly serve God and live a spiritually blessed life"
Got it. 100%. So one can hold up a sign and protest NTCC as long as they check with their local police and are not standing on church property, correct?
MLJ
t,
if I am not mistaken, just Google Earth the Bible College.
Davis' house looks like the letter H with two legs cut off. Looks like there is new pavement in the driveway.
Anyone care to validate my claim?
Bro Johnson
t asked...
can anybody tell me how to find Davis's house on google earth?
Jeff wrote...
Lat-47° 3'20.14"N Lon-122°15'25.27"W
That is the latitude and longitude of RWD's house. It's a monster. I think he should sell it and go start a pioneer work. What? That is what he tells his ministers. Well, all of them except Kekel. Maybe not all of them but close.
Also: Brother Johnson I believe you are right.
Jeff
I wonder what the rwd's family is going to do in that big house now that they retire.
Surely they won't be playing hosts to the hundreds of ministers out there in the trenches because he sees them as loosers. He only surrounds himself with people that are "making it" as he often stated from the conferences that I attended.
It is sad to see that there have been good preachers that have been put aside because they can't be what rwd wants them to be.
So much for the parable of the good shepherd who went out of his way to find that one sheep, leaving the 99.
The last time I was at RW's house was after I got back from PR-- around 2006. I got the feeling that he didn't want me there, but his wife had invited us. A bunch of us met in his family room, but his formal living room was roped off. You could look but not touch. When we left my wife said it was like being in a museum. Just for show.
Roped off? Casey, come on... I was in his house and fellowshiped with him and several others in that area you say was roped off. Maybe they had just shampooed the carpet? A lot of assumptions are made because we want to find fault.
Anonymous said...
Roped off? Casey, come on... I was in his house and fellowshiped with him and several others in that area you say was roped off. Maybe they had just shampooed the carpet? A lot of assumptions are made because we want to find fault.
Jeff said...
And maybe it was roped off. I think you just made an assumption because you are assuming that we are just trying to find fault. Have you read even 1/10th of the stories written on this blog alone? Are we all just finding fault or are the stories written here true? I would say the latter.
The fact is there's been stories written here that have been a whole lot more alarming than a roped off formal room. Have you yet responded to any of those? We all know that RWD is a pompous kind of guy so for him to have a roped off room wouldn't be any big surprise but that in itself doesn't light a candle to some of the other stunts that he has pulled.
How about RWD openly declaring in conference that he paid out a substantial amount of money for a cause that I have since found out that the money never got sent to. That is not finding fault, it is a fact. The only money that ever got sent was a little more than 1/10 of what RWD openly said was being sent in conference. I heard him say it with my own ears and I personally confirmed years later that it was not sent.
Jeff
I would believe that rw had parts of his home roped off. He said many times don't come to his door and peek around him. To see into his home. As if you could even get to the door. Sure he hated that old puny house that he used to live in. Folks could come in the back without going through a security gate. Now he is surrounded by gate's,fence's. And he is so available,care's for his flock!AS IF!
He always like to make mention of some rich guy that barracaded himself in his home and went looney. That is what has happened to rw. But he may have already been looney before putting up the HUGE Fence he now surrounds himself. Cut off from the world. He has his riches,but does he really have any friends? We could hate the man. I pity him. He has nothing but money. As much as he has bashed his wife,wonder how much she really love's him?
To the Anon,that thinks we are on here to find fault. Really there is no fault finding here. We state facts and personal stories of what many of us have gone through.
CM
OK Mr. Anonymous,
I recall very clearly that Davis had his formal living room "roped off". Maybe my memory is skewed from the trauma of actually being in Davis' presence, but I do know it was "cordoned off" shall we say. Maybe the formal living room is open for the "A" list visitors, which it was apparent that I was not.
CM said...
That is what has happened to rw. But he may have already been looney before putting up the HUGE Fence he now surrounds himself. Cut off from the world. He has his riches,but does he really have any friends? We could hate the man. I pity him. He has nothing but money. As much as he has bashed his wife,wonder how much she really love's him?
and then immediately after...
We state facts and personal stories of what many of us have gone through.
facts, and personal stories? sounds like assumptions to me, but I guess that's just me.
Casey... point missed! my point is that though it may have been roped off when you were there, could it have been that they just got through shampooing the carpet? Could it be that he was uncomfortable because you were there seeing his house in that way? I'm not denying that that part of the house may have been roped off, I'm just saying, and I am no A list person, it was open for me.
All of you who can't stand that the head of an organization has money, why don't you google some of the houses that other people who head other organizations live in?
Seems like you don't like how the money gets to the heads of NTCC. If people pay tithe, and give in the offering like the Bible says, all of the church's bills get paid and a portion of the money goes to the leadership, what's your problem? I know I am going to make a lot of you mad because you have problems saving money. No one ever told you to give all your money or time for that matter to the church. Just give what is required, any extra is your own choice. Some don't get blessed from their giving because they give with the wrong attitude. Look at what Jesus said to the disciples about the widow's offering as opposed to the Pharisees.
Jeff said...
How about RWD openly declaring in conference that he paid out a substantial amount of money for a cause that I have since found out that the money never got sent to. That is not finding fault, it is a fact. The only money that ever got sent was a little more than 1/10 of what RWD openly said was being sent in conference. I heard him say it with my own ears and I personally confirmed years later that it was not sent.
If this is such a "fact" why do you refer to it as a "cause" instead of telling us what that cause was? Are you afraid that someone will research it and prove you wrong? And while you are at it, why don't you research all the facts surrounding the incident and find out just what happened? I have been reading some of your posts Jeff, and you have a history of not getting all the facts and then going off half cocked.
First thing Anonymous:
Why does the NTCC erroneously include 1Cor 16:2 in their doctrinal statement to support tithing when it has nothing to do with tithing? Because they deliberately deceive people to give money. These NTCC leaders are not unlearned and they understand the scriptures just as well as I do. Look up 1Cor 16:2 and tell me what it has to do with tithing and explain why the NTCC leadership has kept it in their doctrinal statement? Our complaints have nothing to do with them having money. Our complaints and specifically mine have to do with them deceiving people to get the money and the way they distribute money by utilizing a system called NEPOTISM.
How come Kekel has never had to sell his house and move like so many other NTCC ministers? NEPOTISM, and that's a fact. Why have bible school students been required to leave certain articles of property in the dorm because the NTCC claims that once it is used by the masses it becomes NTCC property? But it’s OK for RWD to place 39 acres of property in the NTCC name and then conveniently take it out and donate as a gift to Kekel? It is called double standard.
Second issue: RWD lying about his gift was a fact because I verified it myself and I heard him lie about it with my own ears while I was in conference and I don't have to prove anything to you nor anyone else in the NTCC. I have the liberty to protect my sources, and you “anonymous”, will not compel, bully, or manipulate me into doing otherwise. You’ve taken the liberty to protect your identity and I will continue to exercise my liberty in protecting the identity of my source. I answer to NO ONE in the NTCC any longer for any reason. I have only given you an answer at all, because of the mutual respect that I have required from all who participate in this blog but the buck stops here.
I will publish more specific facts about this particular incident when my source gives me the go ahead and not until then. So therefore there is no need for you to bring this matter up again because this blog will not be turned into a back and forth dispute nor will my integrity be questioned any longer by you.
Lastly: You have the audacity to post "Anonymously" and then you question me using the word "cause" in my accusation? If there is anyone that is trying to conceal information it is you "Anonymous".
Jeff Collins
Also Anonymous:
I didn't miss the point either that Casey originally made. RWD is a pompous individual and he has made that clear in conference by saying that he doesn't want folks peeping around his house. He even went as far as saying that he didn't want his own church members to come visit him uninvited. Well isn't he mister important!!! My friends can come to my house uninvited anytime they would like.
I understand the need for privacy but RWD is pompous and every who has ever met him knows it and if you don't you are blind.
So for him to have a room ROPED off, is of no surprise to me and I have not doubt that the cause was for him to preserve his pompous intentions and I am making no apologies for my statement.
Jeff Collins
Anonymous said...
Some don't get blessed from their giving because they give with the wrong attitude.
Jeff said...
Some who give with the right attitude don't get blessed with money at all.
Your philosophy is so bogus it is not even funny. How is it that your theory can be categorically accurate if there are IN FACT a world full of RICH, WEALTHY, SINNERS who've never given anything? There are and that can not be debated. Who blessed them? Why were there so many monetarily poor followers of God in the bible if God monetarily blesses everyone who serves him with the right heart? "All Christians pay tithe and give in the offering"; isn't that what you NTCCers teach? So to server God with the right heart and to be considered a Christian, they must have done that according to your theory? So why were so many NEVER bless with MONEY?
The bible proves they were not blessed with money. Here is the proof.
Why was it that the only church that was considered completely monetarily poor in Revelation chapters 2 and 3, received TOTAL commendation by Christ with no faults found? If this church was great, which it was, and your theory is right, than why were they broke and God didn't bless them with money? And why was it that the only church that received absolutely no commendation was monetarily rich?
Because your theory and your theological views are both bogus.
In those accounts referenced in Rev chapters 2 and 3, that incidentally came directly from Christ himself; the church that was rich was spiritual broke, and the church that was poor was spiritually rich. You can't deny that Anonymous! All you have to do is read the bible and stop buying off on the NTCC prosperity preaching garbage. I understand that God blesses people but those blessings won't necessarily come in the form of MONEY and that was certainly the case with Smyrna because they definitely didn't have money, but Anonymous you better believe they were blessed.
Your theory stinks and so does your theology and I just proved it. God rains on the just and the unjust and you can't categorically say that if you have money that means that you are blessed by God and therefore you are right with God. That is garbage. Sinners are rich.
Case closed and the verdict had come in. Your theory has been proven BOGUS beyond any shadow of doubt. You not only didn’t come half cocked, you didn’t come cocked at all.
Jeff
t,
I belive I REALLY found Davis' house. It is located on 131st ave E. based upon Bro Jeff's coordinates.
I previously thought it was located ON the Compound. I was wrong!
It is the MONSTER house that sits in the middle of a green square.
I wonder how much tithe money went into watering the grass??
Bro Johnson
Half cocked Jeff...
There you go again! Where in this statement do you see prosperity preaching/teaching?
"Some don't get blessed from their giving because they give with the wrong attitude. Look at what Jesus said to the disciples about the widow's offering as opposed to the Pharisees."
The operative word in this statement is "some." There are many reasons why people don't get blessed like they should. This is just one example. I didn't want to belabor the point. I say "blessed like they should" because it is a promise given by God in the book of Malachi. However, the promises of God are conditional. Besides, I can't see any reason why God would do away with a means and a promise to blessings just because a new testament has been made to deliver us from sin. Where in the New Testament does God do away with tithing?
Don't think for a minute that I believe that because someone is rich, it means they are holier somehow.
Read I. Timothy Chapter 6.
Mr. Anonymous: This is how I started my statement.
"Some who give with the right attitude don't get blessed with money at all."
There is nothing half cocked about that and you rightly referenced 1 Timothy Chapter 6 which even more so confirms my point.
The bottom line is that I completely believe that the NTCC is a corporation with greedy leaders and you don't feel that way. I know that I have facts to support my claim and from what I can tell you don't necessary believe that either. So guess what? We are going to have to agree to disagree because I think you are brainwashed and you certainly appear to believe that I am wrong and that is your prerogative.
There is one fact that you can't deny. At least I let people with different opinions from myself, post on this blog because you won't find that freedom on Kekel's blog. Mike Kekel believes in censorship which is the suppression of peoples right to express themselves and that is communism.
You have a nice day Anonymous.
Jeff Collins
All of you who can't stand that the head of an organization has money, why don't you google some of the houses that other people who head other organizations live in?
Seems like you don't like how the money gets to the heads of NTCC. If people pay tithe, and give in the offering like the Bible says, all of the church's bills get paid and a portion of the money goes to the leadership, what's your problem? I know I am going to make a lot of you mad because you have problems saving money. No one ever told you to give all your money or time for that matter to the church. Just give what is required, any extra is your own choice. Some don't get blessed from their giving because they give with the wrong attitude. Look at what Jesus said to the disciples about the widow's offering as opposed to the Pharisees
ANON said.
this person is so caught up in the jargon and brainwashed ways of ntcc. He said it all,we don't know how to save money. And we only give what we want and that is it. AS IF! If your not at every function,prayer meeting,fellowship function. You start to get frowned upon,spied on,bashed over the pulpit by the so called apostle rw davis.
I for one do not care if other folks are rich and have more money then me. Don't care ONE BIT! But if they scammed that money and took from others. While taking it easy. Getting fat off others hard work. Then that is wrong. rw has not worked for a Very long time. Driving a RV is not work,sitting and checking UP on folks is not work,on and on. Ministers out in the field do the work and support his rich lifestyle. While they live in Ghetto living(not all) But 80% of them do. it is not due to not saving there money. You have to have money to save it. After paying rent for two place's(church,home) and take care of your own family,pay for two conference's a year,schooling for your children,clothing for the family. All of this comes out of ONE salary. Gas,up keep of vechile. Health insurance if a family even has that. So where do you see savings coming into play??
No this person is brainwashed and under ntcc FOG! You get away,start thinking on your own. That fog lifts. You will go on ntccXposed and these blogs. Read and really THINK! God will show you what a farse ntcc really is. I do think it is a cult. AS church can preach Jesus and Virgin birth and still be a cult. More then just one catagory to a cult!
Oh and concerning the widow and her offerring. This is just an assumption. What would happen if that widow walked into a ntcc church. Gave a small offerring. She would be made a mockey. Rw does it all the time,minister your only give a few dollars. You gave that same few dollars a few years ago. Why hasn't God bless you to give more then that!!!!
She would be mocked and bashed about over the pulpit. Until she felt humilated and left and never came back. Like so many have been humilated and Never came back. Such LOVE!!
CM
CM
That is exactly right CM. That is the way the NTCC operates. The NTCC has consistently used guilt trip tactics to compel people to give ever since I've been with the NTCC. CM: You gave very good examples but someone has to have an open mind or they simply will not see that what you've written is true.
It's not easy to admit to yourself that you have been tricked, suckered, and fooled for many years. It's still not easy, and I am out of that garbage. Who likes to admit that they were a sucker? I don't, but they sure guilt tripped me into quite a bit.
Jeff
If you were to sincerely ask Davis, Kekel or Olson how the tithe and offerings gets spent-- they would tell you that it is none of your business! And if you have a problem with that answer, "there's the door"! But, a congregation has a RIGHT to know where all the money goes and how. It's called Transparency in the business world.
If ntcc's spending is on the up and up, then why is everything so hush, hush and secretive? Why is almost everything paid in CASH ONLY? Why, if they have a large deposit, do they break the deposits into sums less than $10,000, so that the bank does not report it to the IRS? (That is illegal by the way). They are suppose to be a Christian organization, but act like a drug cartel or mafia.
If everything is so above board, then why is everything done under the table?
Casey said...
If everything is so above board, then why is everything done under the table?
Jeff said...
Yeah!
Jeff
Post a Comment