Let me break it down a little bit further. I will start with "It seemed". I looked up the word seemed in the dictionary and it means: "to give the outward appearance of being or to pretend to be" So when an NTCC minister says, "It seemed", it means that there is nothing conclusive to what they are about to say next which in this case is the word "good." Now let me break this down. Good is the opposite of bad so when someone says, "It seemed good", that means it appeared to be good but it actually could be bad because it only "seemed" good.
Now let me continue with the part where they throw in, "to the Lord." That part of the statement is no more than a bunch of super-spiritual, phony baloney, holier than thou mumbo jumbo. You see they throw that part in the statement because they don't expect anyone to question the quote "Lord." Why didn't they just say that "it seemed good to me"? That is all it really was anyway, because if it was truly from the lord, it wouldn't "seem" like anything, it would be that way. Why didn't they say it "is" good to the Lord? Because they don't have ANY IDEA whether it is good to the Lord or not, and because they don't want to take any responsibility for their decision, they place it all on the Lord but conveniently throw in the disclaimer "seemed." And in doing that, they can say they didn't ever know for certain whether it was good to the Lord or not, when everything goes wrong.
There you go SFC Johnson; how do you like that? Ha, ha.
Jeff
32 comments:
Cut and paste this link. This person only posted this one month ago...
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090422082427AA7ZkTu
"Great link Dawn..it sure is an eye opener for exactly how the NTCC kids feel".
THIS IS SOOO SAD..my heart breaks for this teen.
The teenager who attends NTCC, says 'My mom IS VERY RELIGIOUS CHRISTIAN, HOLINESS and they attend church 6 times a week! She clearly says 'its been often called a cult', then goes on to say 'ive become so obsessed with death and often think people are trying to kill me'!! Towards the end clearly says 'I go through depression, and will start crying for no reason 'EXCEPT THAT I FEEL LONELY'!!!!! (LONELY, are u kidding me, how DARE these parents neglect this poor teen who's obviously crying out for help???!!!) Then the teen asked 'could this just be a teenage thing or is it a serious problem'?
YES it's a serious problem. The teens parents are NEGLECTING this child..these NTCC parents should pay more attention to whats going on with this child, & less worrying about the 6 day a week church schedule, soulwinning schedule, and whatever else is CONTROLLING THERE LIVES!! This teen is lonely, afraid of DEATH, and instead of asking her parents for advice..feels MORE COMPFORTABLE asking strangers on the internet! NTCC doesn't involve these kids what so EVER! They are put on the back burner, while mom & dad are out bringing ppl to church 5 days a week. This is truly, truly SAD!! My heart goes out to whom ever this teen is :(
Heather
That is pretty sad. Well that kid is quite messed up. You know that I'm anything but a fan of the NTCC, but I'm not so certain that the NTCC caused the child to go through ALL that? I am sure that life in the NTCC resulted in the child experiencing much of what she described. I'm assuming the person is a "she" because of the picture next to the statement.
My daughter is much more functional now that we left the NTCC. She actually did "Ok" while we were in the NTCC, but occasionally she would cry because she had no friends and she was lonely. The NTCC certainly is very poor at promoting friendships for either adults or children and it's far worse for children. The NTCC stinks.
That is a good link Dawn. I didn't originally see the relevance in the link but it may have helped if I would have THOROUGHLY READ what was written. Every now and then I'm not very good at that!!! I stand corrected.
Jeff
Bro Jeff,
Much thanks. The Record Holder link was getting a little too long.
Dawn, if it is happening to one teenager, it is happening to hundreds. Which does not surprise me.
Jeff, with regards to your previous statement "As on to the Lord":
Very good insight. The scripture came to mind "But Lord, didn't I bring forth (or called out) devils in thy name? And the Lord responds, "I never knew thee"...
NTCC ministers who twist scriptures around are expert escape artists when it comes to manipulating the Word of God.
Again, they will feed you with the Word of God enough to fatten you up, then they bring folks in "for the kill".
Throw enough scripture out there, and folks will believe anything. Have a Bible study on the End of Times or the Antichrist and you can expect a packed out service!!
I am just surprised that NTCC does not have BINGO night, just like the Luthern church down the street.
I was also meditating on the Word of God about a scripture that Rev Kinson preach. It's kind of hypocritical now, looking back, but the man can preach.
"Well, I am of Apollos, or I am of Paul...But I am of Christ"
Bringing that into context, you ask a person what denomination that they are, you always hear the reply
"Well I'm a Methodist" or "I'm a Baptist" or "I'm a Holiness this that or the other" or "I'm a Morman".
Why can't folks just say "Well, I'm a Christian" or "I am of Christ".
Bro Johnson
Amen Bro. Johnson!
I always get the question 'what are you' when people see me.
I tell them I am a Christian. That's not good enough for them, so they ask what kind of Christian (in other words, what denomination).
I hate how we as Christians have divided ourselves into denominations.
It's like we don't have Christians anymore, we have Lutherans, we have Catholics, we have Presbyterians, etc, know what I mean?
Dawn,
i would have to say that your style of dress causes people to wonder what you are, not that there is anything wrong with it, but it is begging the question, dont you think?
t
Dawn,
You can always say "I'm a HAPPY Christian"
But then they will continue to press you and say - "No, Dawn, really, what are you?"
Then you just have to memorize the following quote below:
"I'm a happy Saved by the Word of God filled by the Holy Ghost (angels clapping in the background) indebted to the One who cleansed me out (AMEN!!) of the bondage of sin, always achieving, more than a Conquerer, able to do ALL THINGS, (Angels singing) living each day as if it were my last, look on death as a FRIEND, always ready to give a witness, inspired by the Word of God, Bible believing, life changing, always Praising, never defeated, tithe paying, hand clapping, mouth praising sealed and blessed by the One who sits and sometimes standing at the right hand of God Christian"
MLJ
MLJ ~
Sounds good to me... :-) I should try to memorize that..hee hee.
Good day to all ~
http://www.homechurchhelp.com/normal%20church.html
and
http://www.homechurchhelp.com/One%20church%20in%20a%20city.htm
Bro. J,
Please ask your son to make be Sec. Of Education when he wins in 2048.
Thanks ;-)
All,
I want to shamelessly plug my personal blog: myicedtea.blogspot.com.
Be forewarned, it is only similar to True Life in that it is my true life musings.
I started it in an attempt to sort to some things that randomly float around in my head. You may be offended, but comment anyway.
I actually just had a private/public snafuu with Sandra Justiniano on facebook over a post. I love dialogue, not insults.
Anyway, Jeff, I have a post I'm pondering entitled: Post Traumatic NTCC disorder. It is still in the thought stages, but when I hash it out I would love to email it to you to be posted here.
Since leaving NTCC I have been "Mad as Hell and not going to take it anymore". This post will chronicle that, and how I'm coping.
Let me know what you think.
Sister Jefferies,
Isn't Ms. Justiano like 15 years older than her husband?
When I firt met them, I thought the Mr. was her son!!
Bro Johnson
Bro. J.,
Ouch. I never thought she was his mother. But there is a substantial age difference.
How's the Army treating you? Marc is in Korea now. But he'll be home for a visit soon. Since KS we've been to AZ, Okinawa, and TX. And now back home to IL. After Marc goes downrange we hope to return overseas. I want Okinawa, but it will probably be Germany, which is fine by me too.
Please tell your wife hello. Is she seriously considering Med School? I am studying to be a teacher now. I have two more years left until I can apply for certification.
Knowing that I want an education and career were also deciding factors in us leaving. I knew I couldn't be a "Stepford NTCC wife" for the rest of my life.
LaQueshia said...
Anyway, Jeff, I have a post I'm pondering entitled: Post Traumatic NTCC disorder. It is still in the thought stages, but when I hash it out I would love to email it to you to be posted here.
Jeff said...
LaQueshia; I think that is a great idea. I am all for it. Just let me know when it is ready. We can absolutely start a thread with your story on the cover of this home page. I appreciate your involvement here. It seems to me that a lot of ladies experienced quite a bit of abuse while with the NTCC. It appears to do many of you good when you hear other women give similar testimonies which proves that you weren't alone and it wasn't just YOU!!!
Jeff
Post Traumatic NTCC disorder
I am all for a post started about this. Women in and women out of ntcc. Can particpate. For you that are still in. Your brain is going through so much damage. That you don't experience the full force of it. Until you get out. Right now your in denial. once you acknowledge what ntcc is all about. Nothing Good!
You get out and it really hits full force. Realize your not crazy. But you were in depression for MANY years. And tried to block it out. Because rw bashes depression. Saying your faking it. IT IS NOT FAKE!
CM
CM,
Not only that, but you realize that NTCC TOOK YOUR PRECIOUS TIME AWAY FROM YOU HELLO!!
WHEN YOU TAKE THE "O" AWAY FROM HELLO WHAT DO YOU GET? EXACTLY! AND MANY OF YOU BLOG READERS WERE LIVING IT ON EARTH DUE TO SLAVING AWAY FOR NTCC.
TAKE HEL AWAY FROM HELLO AND WHAT DO YOU GET? EXACTLY! LO. NTCC TOOK YOU DOWN SO LOW YOU DID NOT KNOW HOW TO LOOK UP!!!
Yes, ALL CAPS means I am SHOUTING!!
MLJ
OK. My caffinee withdrawal has now officially kicked in.
Fun Fact: I did not drink coffee until I was a brother at NTCC Servicemen's home.
The rest, as they say, is history.
Bro Johnson
I had never had coffee before until Sis Devonshire made me a cup. I just never had the desire for it.
But then she told me she would make a cup especially for me and added some hmmm, I think it was cinnamon and vanilla maybe, and believe it or not, I liked that cup of coffee. :-)
Of course that was my first and last cup.
I may be the outcast here on this blog like I normally am, but I don't believe my time in NTCC was wasted.
GOD had me, and all of you in NTCC for a reason.
A reason we may never know this side of Glory.
If you feel NTCC wasted your time, That is a shame.
Was it a waste of time going to those prayer meetings praying for your unsaved contacts?
Was it a waste of time being in the house of GOD worshipping Him?
Was it a waste of time to go to Q+A sessions and learning something you had never known?
Was it a waste of time to invite the lost out to church?
Our time is GOD's time. It's not ours. He chose each and every one of us to be in NTCC in the selected times that we were for whatever reasons.
My time whether it was in the Catholic church, NTCC, a Baptist church or Mennonite church is never wasted if it's done for my Master.
You may have touched someone's life, or several people's lives while in NTCC. Was that a waste?
Dawn asked...
GOD had me, and all of you in NTCC for a reason.
A reason we may never know this side of Glory.
If you feel NTCC wasted your time, That is a shame.
Was it a waste of time going to those prayer meetings praying for your unsaved contacts?
Was it a waste of time being in the house of GOD worshipping Him?
Was it a waste of time to go to Q+A sessions and learning something you had never known?
Was it a waste of time to invite the lost out to church?
Jeff responded...
Dawn: You asked some questions that I am going to give legitimate answers to.
First you stated that God had us in the NTCC for a reason. For you to say that means that you must believe that everything that happens is according to Gods plan. I disagree categorically.
Did God plan for Adam and Eve to sin so that he would have to SEND his own Son to die on the cross? No!!!! Did God intentionally put Judas through temptation which ultimately resulted in Judas betraying Jesus to the degree that the Bible teaches us that it would have been better off if he had never born? NO!!!
Did God deliberately send so many of us to the NTCC so that we could get abused contrary to HIS WORD, misused, tricked, double crossed with rules that used to be damnable sin but now they don't exist any longer as rules. No way Dawn!!! I would have to say that you are categorically wrong with your line of thinking.
Dawn: You want to get spiritual so I will do the same with scripture. You virtually never see me quote scripture but in response to your questions I am going to now.
You asked: Was it a waste of time going to those prayer meetings praying for your unsaved contacts?
Answer: Yes. Christ said if the blind follow the blind, both will fall in the ditch. The NTCC leaders are blind Dawn because they don't have love at all and that has been proven time and again on this blog. It was just like leading sheep to the slaughter. Muslims pray also; is that a waist of time Dawn?
Next you asked: Was it a waste of time being in the house of GOD worshipping Him?
Answer: First off you are assuming that we were in Gods house but if it was Gods house these NTCC pastors wouldn't have treated their church members that way they did in such a terrible fashion. It may have been NTCCs HOUSE but I wouldn't say Gods house so yes it was a waist of time. Did the Pharisees waist their time in the Temple? According to Christ they did because at one time the Temple was the house of God, but Christ said they had turned it into a den of thief's. Sounds like the NTCC and all their greedy practices. The NTCC church buildings are not the houses of God.
That was part one; part two is next!
Jeff
Part 2:
Next you asked: Was it a waste of time to go to Q+A sessions and learning something you had never known?
Answer: It was a waist of time to be taught that it is a Sin for a woman to work on a job. It was a waist of time to be taught that a woman can wear jewelry on her clothing, and fingers but just not on her skin. Those are things I am not interesting in knowing because they are wrong and false doctrine. The NTCC focused on those things during Q&A but they omitted the weighter matters like love which they certainly didn't show their church members and ministers when they watched them struggle in total poverty. Poverty that the NTCC drove them into to start with because of false doctrines like woman not being able to work on a job which is totally contrary to proverbs chapter 31, but Tanya Kekel can do all the work she wants to because she is RWD daughter.
Then you asked: Was it a waste of time to invite the lost out to church?
Answer: WHAT? If RWD, Olson, Kekel and half of their pastors are lost which they are, according to the bible, than the people that you brought to their church would become even more lost. Here is what Christ said: "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."
That is what the NTCC does Dawn and you would have been better off leaving those folks alone. In many cases inviting folks to church does more damage than good and I know of folks who left the NTCC who had endured so much abuse that they don't ever want to go back to church again. They are worse than they were before they went. Come on Dawn. You can't possibly believe that we are all just lying when we tell of all our horror stories surrounding life in the NTCC? If you do you are wrong.
Jeff
Dawn,
You are not an outcast here your opinion is appreciated and welcomed.
I can't say that my time at NTCC was wasted, if I had been there 20 +years maybe it would be a different story.
However, praying until 11pm at night while my husband and children were waiting for me at home was unwise. My marriage should have came 1st! My husband and my children are my primary "contacts".
Worshiping in the house of God was fine, but 5-6 days a week was out of balance and excessive.
I could go on and on, but I won't. I agree our time is God's time;however, there must be a balance.
God struck down the priests who offered "strange fire" sacrifices. They gave the offering in God's honor, but he was not pleased with it! Could it be they were neglecting some other part of their lives(like taking care of their family)?
Ponder,
NS
Jeff Wrote:
I know of folks who left the NTCC who had endured so much abuse that they don't ever want to go back to church again. They are worse than they were before they went.
I'm a part of those ppl as well Jeff! I wish I could say, since I left NTCC "I've found an incredible, loving, bible believing church"...BUT, after 3 yrs of being NTCC free, I'm NOT ready yet!!
Dawn..when you said "GOD had me, and all of you in NTCC for a reason", I remember the first time I was going to leave NTCC, thats pretty much the same thing the pastor told me. If you don't mind me asking, what were your reasons you left NTCC?
Heather
NS wrote:
I can't say that my time at NTCC was wasted, if I had been there 20 +years maybe it would be a different story.
However, praying until 11pm at night while my husband and children were waiting for me at home was unwise. My marriage should have came 1st! My husband and my children are my primary "contacts".
You couldn't have said it better NS!!!!!
Heather
Dawn..when you said "GOD had me, and all of you in NTCC for a reason
I have to totally disagree! God did not want me in ntcc. God did not guide or bring me to ntcc. And beside's friends and my DH and children. I don't see anything good that came from being in ntcc. Not biblical knowledge. I have prayed it to be all wiped out of my head. And Start all over and learn Gods word without man's slant.
I was away from home,with no church to attend. So I jumped at a friendly lady inviting me to church. Walk in,and real home and real furniture. People friendly and warm and loving. Yeah,that would be better then being a barracks rat and eating chowhall food!
God was not involved in bringing me to ntcc,or even me staying in ntcc. I am a free moral agent. And I used that discretion and MESSED UP! And then I stayed because I met a man and got married. I used to think if my DH was to die. I was so out of there. And then bash myself,for lack of faith.
I am now finding out my DH stayed for me as well. Since everyone is afraid to talk and share any concerns we all had.
God is not in ntcc!
CM
I am sorry ya'll disagree with me and feel the way you do. I was just bringing another opinion to the blog is all.
Heather, I left NTCC because I stopped growing. There is so much more to the Bible than the Holy Ghost baptism, salvation, and soulwinning. So much more.
I was hungry (spiritually) for some 'meat and taters'.
GOD BLESS! Hope everyone is having a good day. I am devouring the book of Exodus right now. Very good stuff in that book I say.
:-D
Nellashara ~
I've been meaning to ask you a question but kept forgetting...
You said you cover your head when you go to Temple. What church do you go to now?
When I read that, I thought LDS.
:-D
Dawn,
When I said Temple I meant House of the Lord. I do have family in the LDS and do attend with them from time to to time. I used to attend a major mainline church where I live, but it was easy to get lost in the crowd and the Pastor kept teaching on eschatology(sp) every other service . I attend a small non-dom church.
I am a pretty modern gal, but with an old world spin on certain spiritual aspects in my life.
Good Question! Where do you attend?
Nellshara
I go to a conservative Anabaptist church known as the Mennonites...but I think GOD is moving me on from there and into Messianic Christianity (or as some call it Messianic Judiasm).
I don't like slapping denominational labels on myself. I am just doing my best to serve Him with the knowledge I do have and am learning. :)
The more I pray for GOD to open my eyes when reading the Word, the more aware I see how the modern church world has decieved millions of people.
I've never been to an LDS service before. Although I have been asked before if I were part of the FLDS (they are here in TX with us).
That was an interesting day.
:-D
Dawn,
I feel like I identify alot with the Messianic Jews. I was actually married on Jewish New Years a few years back. Interesting Dawn we have alot in comman.
The FDLS we see alot of them down here, even at Wal-Mart.
I am just glad I can be myself!
NS
Jeff,
I have been busy, but had been pondering Dawn's post about "wasted time (or not)" since she wrote it.
Your reply was what had been drifting in my brain. Thanks for penning it.
I did learn some valuable things about humility and being a wife in NTCC. However, after less than a month of attending, I knew it was not where I should be.
God is not the author of confusion, and NTCC helped ruin and confuse thousands of people.
Although I attended a few churches here and there since then, I have been seriously afraid to commit to one.
I do believe, as Dawn said, the many mainline Churches are out of whack. But also like Dawn, I hope to get to a place of trusting again. And hopefully fellowshiping and growing with others who have pure and honest intentions.
Now I must stop blogging until this Science report is DONE!
Have a great weekend/week everyone.
LaQueshia,
I agree with you. It is very difficult to find someone I trust. In NTCC you were always worried about someone ratting on you for no good reason.
However, I have learned to discern people better...yet keep an optimistic outlook when deciding to join a church.
NS
All,
I attended a Korean Methodist church today with my wife.
It was actually a pretty good time.
I was surprised at the warmth projected, it was not fake either, not like the fake love NTCC projects.
It is funny where you would not think to find God, well, there He is!!!
The food and fellowship was great too, not that I went to the church just for the food, which I know NTCC uses as a ploy.
MLJ
LaQueshia said...
I did learn some valuable things about humility and being a wife in NTCC. However, after less than a month of attending, I knew it was not where I should be.
Jeff said...
You know LaQueshia: I can learn something virtually anywhere I go, whether it is my job, a friends house, or church for that matter. I regularly learn things from people right here on this blog. I've learned a few things from you. Church is kind of funny though because it is different. Trusting in the bible requires faith because none of us were there when Christ walked the earth. Trusting in God who we can't see or talk to face to face requires much faith for that very reason.
So when you say you learned things or obtained knowledge from a church, that requires having faith in the people doing the teaching and trusting that they even have any idea what they are talking about because they didn't walk with Jesus and they can't see God or talk to him face to face either.
The whole thing is about faith and I have more faith in myself than I have in any NTCC pastor that exists. Even the good NTCC pastors don't think for themselves. They all to one degree or another, put the NTCC spin on their bible interpretation.
That is why it is almost impossible to convince any of them that it is biblically OK for women to work on a job. I can prove and I have proved that it is biblically lawful for a woman to work on the job and I have not met any NTCC pastor yet who can prove otherwise. For that matter they don't even make a good case using the bible. The one scripture they attempt to use does not even remotely suggest that a woman can't work on a job. What it does suggest is that a woman needs to be domestically inclined and a good house keeper neither of which means she can't have a paid job.
I won't say the NTCC was a COMPLETE waist but I can sure think of a whole lot of other things that I could have done with ten years of my time and money. You see I don't consider winning someone to the NTCC as winning someone for Christ. Christ is not the author if double standards, nepotism, hypocrisy, abuse, and psychological manipulation which were all practiced regularly by NTCC ministers.
I would have to say that for the most part it was a complete waist of time other than the fact that I learned how not to act as a Christian.
Jeff
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