I want to use this blog in any way possible, to clearly show current NTCC members, that they are a part of a seriously messed up, abusive organization, and they need to leave it. To do that we must prove beyond any reasonable doubt that the NTCC is as messed up as many of us say it is!!! How do we prove that in the most effective manner? By writing of our own personally experiences, which will clearly illustrate, that there is VALIDITY to the blanket statements we make, which assaults the NTCCs credibility. You can't just say the NTCC has messed you up or abused you. You have to prove it by writing about exactly WHAT IT WAS THAT THE NTCC DID TO YOU that messed you up or was considered abuse, or double standards. If the NTCC never did anything to you that you consider bad you may be on the wrong blog with few exceptions. Now without further ado here is the statement made by "t" and my response.
T said...
"I think this blog is beginning to sound to much like a psyco-therapy support group.
While that is needed and can bring healing if its practiced in a biblical manner, it is not really the purpose of the blog"
Jeffs response...
T: I understand your point and I also understand why you feel that way. Whats interesting is that some of these people ARE actually telling stories that expose the NTCC in the process.
One lady spoke of how an NTCC minister said it was her fault because she had been sexually and physically assaulted. Others have talked about various different kinds of abuse that they received at the hands of an NTCC pastor.
However T; you are absolutely right when you say that the purpose of this blog is to expose the NTCC, and the title of the blog is "True Stories Of Life In The New Testament Christian Church." Without doubt, my ultimate goal for this blog is to see people write of their own personal experiences while "IN" the NTCC that expose the NTCC for what it truly is. If people will do this, it will not only help people who have left the NTCC, but it will help people to leave who are already in the NTCC or people who are thinking of entering the NTCC.
The NTCC is a destructive cult that PROMOTES and practices psychological abuse and manipulation, double standards, false doctrine that can't be validated by the bible, hypocrisy, and a greedy money driven agenda that for the most part only benefits the few elite because of the practice of NEPOTISM. I.E. Kekel, RWD, Kinson, Ashmore, Johnson and a few others.
Having said that, there were and are many people who have been mentally messed up by the NTCC. Of that I am certain. The NTCC as a group remains TOTALLY uncompassionate while lacking COMMON decency. Because they display these characteristics, very few NTCC pastors show any true TANGIBLE love for anyone.
So when I read these stories I feel compassion for these people, and I figure that if this blog can be used to help heal some of these folks than I am all for it. I am no Psychologist, Psychotherapist, or Psychiatrist however I do know for sure that it helps if you can talk to someone who has gone through the same thing that you have. Around the time that I left the NTCC it helped me a lot when I talked to people that went through the same kind of garbage that I experienced. I didn't have a psychological problem, but it did confirm in my mind that I wasn't the only one who knew that the NTCC is FULL, FULL, FULL of a bunch of insensitive, abusive jerks, who have no business in the ministry or any other leadership position for that matter.
Jeff
"I think this blog is beginning to sound to much like a psyco-therapy support group.
While that is needed and can bring healing if its practiced in a biblical manner, it is not really the purpose of the blog"
Jeffs response...
T: I understand your point and I also understand why you feel that way. Whats interesting is that some of these people ARE actually telling stories that expose the NTCC in the process.
One lady spoke of how an NTCC minister said it was her fault because she had been sexually and physically assaulted. Others have talked about various different kinds of abuse that they received at the hands of an NTCC pastor.
However T; you are absolutely right when you say that the purpose of this blog is to expose the NTCC, and the title of the blog is "True Stories Of Life In The New Testament Christian Church." Without doubt, my ultimate goal for this blog is to see people write of their own personal experiences while "IN" the NTCC that expose the NTCC for what it truly is. If people will do this, it will not only help people who have left the NTCC, but it will help people to leave who are already in the NTCC or people who are thinking of entering the NTCC.
The NTCC is a destructive cult that PROMOTES and practices psychological abuse and manipulation, double standards, false doctrine that can't be validated by the bible, hypocrisy, and a greedy money driven agenda that for the most part only benefits the few elite because of the practice of NEPOTISM. I.E. Kekel, RWD, Kinson, Ashmore, Johnson and a few others.
Having said that, there were and are many people who have been mentally messed up by the NTCC. Of that I am certain. The NTCC as a group remains TOTALLY uncompassionate while lacking COMMON decency. Because they display these characteristics, very few NTCC pastors show any true TANGIBLE love for anyone.
So when I read these stories I feel compassion for these people, and I figure that if this blog can be used to help heal some of these folks than I am all for it. I am no Psychologist, Psychotherapist, or Psychiatrist however I do know for sure that it helps if you can talk to someone who has gone through the same thing that you have. Around the time that I left the NTCC it helped me a lot when I talked to people that went through the same kind of garbage that I experienced. I didn't have a psychological problem, but it did confirm in my mind that I wasn't the only one who knew that the NTCC is FULL, FULL, FULL of a bunch of insensitive, abusive jerks, who have no business in the ministry or any other leadership position for that matter.
Jeff
19 comments:
I think that for so many years we were so indoctrinated to not even think anything wrong with the things that are 'ntcc' that now with the internet and the blogs we are finding freedom to express our thoughts when before we couldn't even think to participate in the thinking process like a normal person because we thought that to do so was of the devil. I remember the anecdote that olson always used and probably still does about birds flying over your head but it was up to us to not let them make a nest in our head and now I think that this was just a way of trying to make us think that any thought contrary to ntcc was and is wrong.
Just thinking of how many people that are out of ntcc but haven't come forward to tell their stories because they are still in that mind frame.
Some say: "well we have to go on with life" and the blogs have disappeared into oblivion and people simply couldn't stay for the long run and maybe that is the way they cope with being duped for so many years and that is fine because I am still coping with it and that is why I'm anonymous, so we all have to find an outlet and for that maybe this blog is like a step into coming to my own self and forgiving myself for knowing that I was stupid enough to get into this mess.
Thanks Jeff for your blog.
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. --Steven Weinberg
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -—Edwin Burke
T,
I am quite distressed at your post that this is not a therapy support group. Not to sound sexist or anything, but that is a typicial "manswer" given to a woman when a man doesn't understand what she went through. I thought this blog was for relating stories and comfort, not to feel judged.
Bottom line upfront...because of NTCC rules and regulations I was denied due treatment and made to feel like a criminal for causing someone to "lust after me."
If I related a story of how there was a brother in the home who was acting inappropriately towards the married women(me included) of the church(he has since been banned from the org for committing adultery), would you then say "This blog is not an EEO meeting?"
What say you?
Belle
Belle,
I am sincerely sorry for offending you, and dont have the time to elaborate on my point, offending people with that comment was not in anyway my intention
sincerely,
t
Anonymous said...
"so we all have to find an outlet and for that maybe this blog is like a step into coming to my own self and forgiving myself for knowing that I was stupid enough to get into this mess.
Thanks Jeff for your blog."
Jeff said...
Your welcome. I'm thankful for Victor Johanson, Casey Hayes, and Tracy and Brian Pelfrey just to name a few. They were voices of reason around the time I left the NTCC. At that time they regularly posted on FACTNet and I was able to find a bundle of information about the NTCC that had been kept hidden from us by the NTCC leadership. The NTCC leadership specializes in keeping information hidden.
Olson is as bad as they get. I really have no respect for that man. He in not like everyone in the NTCC thinks he is. He is deceitful beyond imagination. He is the ultimate trickster because he comes across as being so humble and meek but he is actually a wolf. He has been charged with covering up RWDs and the NTCCs mistakes and he does his best doing exactly that. He has also been made privy to so much information about the NTCC that he has craftily kept hidden from everyone and the ones that he couldn't keep it hidden from like Kekel and of course RWD are just as bad as he is.
The internet has allowed us to learn things that were kept hidden that would have never been reveled by those deceitful jerks. So now I am doing my best to continue and perpetuate the flow of information.
Jeff
The damage that ntcc has done to our thinking. Is just as much a part of this blog. IT is a TRUE STORY!
Yes,it did sound like you were belitting us that have been sharing our TRUE STORIES,T!!
Something that we have kept hidden and brushed under a rug for Soo long. We had to pretend we had no mental troubles while in ntcc. Because rw bashes getting help from a therapist or getting medicine. This same man,rw bashes taking Vitamins. CRAZY! He is the crazy one!
Plays games with our heads. And now we can share our TRUE STORIES. Which is what people need to hear. Especially those ladies still STUCK in ntcc. Take care of your mental health now. So it won't be so hard once your out of ntcc. Like so many of us trying to deal with all the anquish now.
CM
To CM: I want you to know that I definitely understand you. I have been following your posts for a while now on Tracy's blog and here, and I can TOTALLY relate with what you've gone through.
I truly believe that woman in the NTCC went through more garbage by far than the men. At least men had some kind marketable trade and often money put in social security if nothing else. What does the NTCC woman have when her husband decides to leave her or he just gets lazy which happened too often.
NOTHING but a whole bunch of anxiety. She has no job because of a false doctrine. She has no retirement of any kind to include money in social security. She has no trade so no one wants to hire her and if she did ever have a trade she lost it due to lack of experience which happened to too many sister who found themselves having to find a job.
Fellows; I'm not patronizing the women but what I have written is real and NTCC women were placed in a TRAP. Diana Taylor is over 50 years old and her husband was one of the most successful NTCC pastors according to NTCC standards that ever stepped foot behind an NTCC pulpit and he did it close to twenty years. Now they are apart and what does she have? No hope of retirement EVER!!! No job that could even remotely be considered substantial!!! She has a great attitude and she is driving on but she is a realist also and she knows she is in a trap and I know this because she and I talked recently.
Fellows these women are in a trap and I feel for every one of them. Casey and I have verbally and occasionally even face to face discussed this topic at length recently. Casey and I both realize who is the most severely messed up in the NTCC and it is without doubt the women. Look what happened to Sis Espinoza.
These women in the NTCC have no clue. Even if the husband and wife do stay together for life, what happens when the husbands die? Do you think the NTCC will take care of the wives? NOPE NOT EVEN. Everyone of these women need to consider the future because they are not living in some dream world and food costs money. If a woman wants to stay at home that is fine, but biblically there is nothing wrong with a woman holding a job where she gets paid for her hours spent. You better think about it women!!!!!!!!!!!! I know too many who are in a trap and the NTCC ain't doing squat for them.
Jeff
Belle,
as i mentioned before, i am sorry if anything i said offended you, it was not my intention.
but that being said, here is where i see the problem:
1. This blog was developed with the intention of exposing ntcc for what they really are, a corrupt, greed inspired, chauvinistic......etc, etc i could go on..
to bring forth stories like the one you just mentioned about how you were treated is exactly the point of the whole thing.
2. on the other hand it can become more of a "im really messed up" or a "im a victim" mentality
which lends validity and justication to the false concepts that ntcc purveys
i gues my point is that there is a time and place to allow the Holy spirit to minister to his people who have the same hurts fears ect.. in common
but to use this blog for the healing process is really like "casting your pearls before swine" in the sense that the ntcc'ers who are secretly coming on here are being taught that the reason we are sooo messed up is becuase we have "left God"
i hope im making myself clear and not sounding judgemental
T
T,
I understand what you are saying. NTCC does say great disaster befalls all those who leave. However I was suffering and symptomatic in NTCC. I am just being honest and telling my story the best way I know how.
If NTCC justifies what happened due to me leaving the will of God..so be it! At least I got the side of my story out. Even if I did not have my story out...they would make up something anyways!
Thanks T,
Belle
T said...
"the ntcc'ers who are secretly coming on here are being taught that the reason we are sooo messed up is because we have "left God".
Jeff said...
To understand t's statement, one must understand the NTCC and the tactics they use. Many don't realize how delicate these blogs really are. PLEASE NO ONE MISUNDERSTAND ME HERE BUT CAREFULLY CONSIDER WHAT I WRITE.
You have about 3 different types of NTCC people who read this blog.
First you have the ones who just want to keep up with what going on and they are not looking for the truth in anything we write.
Second you have the ones who are genuinely looking for answers who have questions themselves about the NTCC.
Third you have the people who come on here just to pick this blog and any other internet site apart that has anything negative to say about the NTCC.
But guess what; all three of those people have one thing in common. I know what I'm talking about, and this is one point that "t" understands and a lot of other people don't. All three of those different people to a degree think the same because they have been in the NTCC for too long and they have been PROGRAMED to think a certain way.
Why do you think I don't allow cursing on here. Two reasons: Because it's not necessary or good, and because the NTCC will say "SEE", they left God and then that person totally lost any effectiveness or credibility on this blog and anything they write is not considered "CREDIBLE". t sees this and so do I. I know you are always going to have some NTCC folks who find something wrong with what we write but I want to reduce that as much as possible.
Yes we have problems and yes the NTCC and their kooky rules and ridiculous schedule was the cause of some of them. And yes some of us may very well be messed up. But if that is the way current NTCC people see us when they read this blog, do you thing we are going to be in any way effective in compelling them to leave their abusive, double standard church? Not likely.
Everything you write on this blog or anywhere else on the internet has a potential impact on the decisions that current NTCC folks make. I have in fact compelled people to leave the NTCC. I know that for a fact, and it is great, because the NTCC is TRULY A CROOKED GROUP that has totally changed. Kekel the hypocritical liar denies that there has been change. That is the part that I can't stand the most.
He says it was always alright for men to wear tights while playing sports and wear shorts and music festival attendance and watch videos. He is a liar and a hypocrite. The NTCC totally ruined the childhood of many NTCC children just for Kekel to allow Grant to do everything the other NTCC children couldn't. I hate that beyond the degree that most can imagine. I value life and the lives of others and PEOPLE, the NTCC truly doesn't. They could care less about the lives of people. All they care about is tithes and offerings and more money and numbers. That is what RWD openly teaches in conference. When ever anyone leave the NTCC all that is ever said is that they didn't want God.
Folks if we are going to compel people to leave the NTCC they have to believe rightfully so, that they would be going to a better life then the one they have; not a worse one.
That is my ultimate agenda here. To convince folks not to enter the NTCC or to leave it. I am sick of the NTCC having control over peoples lives and I am using this blog to try and break that control and I hope the rest of us are hoping to do the same.
Sincerely,
Jeff
Somebody related to me of how many of the old time people didn't show up for the conference and I don't know if it was health related or monetarily but whichever it was it tells me that maybe that little voice of common sense has been resucitated and "maybe" just maybe they were not there because they are in the process of exiting this church.
Jeff,
My life IS better since leaving NTCC. I can make my own informed decisions, not some mumbo jumbo behind a pulpit. I am not a victim, but a victor!
Belle
Bro Jeff,
Here is an update on NTCC's website from MCKekel.
"Good Morning to you all,
I know that itʼs been a while since Iʼve blogged; Donʼt give up on me, PLEASE"....
When have you ever heard Kekel state "Don't give up on me, P L E A S E"...
Sounds like he is in dire straits right now. What is really going on with regards to NTCC Leadership???
Any true leader never reveals his weakness to his Soldiers (Subordinates) so his plea is most unusual.
Bro Johnson
He also requested prayer for a family that's been burned out of their apartment, losing everything they owned. Seems like it would be more practical to also include an address and an invitation to send them some MONEY! But instead, it's "Be ye warmed and filled...."
- Vic Johanson said...
He also requested prayer for a family that's been burned out of their apartment, losing everything they owned. Seems like it would be more practical to also include an address and an invitation to send them some MONEY! But instead, it's "Be ye warmed and filled...."
*********
Vic,
I was thinking the exact same thing. I would give $40.00 to help that family. If they would take up an offering they could easily raise $30,000. Sadly, I doubt it will happen.
LTravis
LTravis,
Yea, but did not NTCC ministers take up a donation to buy Davis a Cadillac? (We thought it would be good for the Man of God to have a nice care).
I was pressured once upon a time by a minister's wife to buy her husband Rev Macdonald a Christmas present, for Saint Peter's sake.
Not wanting to fall out of her good graces, I went around and asked the other church members for monetary donations to buy him something for his Christmas.
I was naive back then, looking back, it was ridiculous. Just like Quid Pro Quo.
I am sure I am not the only ex NTCC member that experienced something like this.
Bro Johnson
Bro Johnson said…
I was pressured once upon a time by a minister's wife to buy her husband Rev Macdonald a Christmas present, for Saint Peter's sake.
Not wanting to fall out of her good graces, I went around and asked the other church members for monetary donations to buy him something for his Christmas.
I was naive back then, looking back, it was ridiculous. Just like Quid Pro Quo.
I am sure I am not the only ex NTCC member that experienced something like this.
Bro Johnson
The point I was making is they should be doing the work of Christ. Giving to the less fortunate is not the same thing as being suckered in to giving your money away for something stupid. I know about being pressured and manipulated. I’ve said it before young GI’s are gullible and generally kind hearted. They make a perfect target for just about anything.
LTravis
LTravis,
I concur!
Bro J
Hello. I'm new to this site, but not new to the ways of ntcc. I was "in" for nearly 17 years, graduated seminary, pastored churches, etc. I've been out for a while now & life has never been better! One thing I really enjoy doing is reading the NIV simply because we were not allowed to do so! Why weren't we allowed? Is it because other versions offer so much clarity to truth...because they expose ntcc leaders for whom they really are...greedy, cultish leaders. I think this scripture decribes them well:
2Peter 18,19: "For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of the flesh, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 19 They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.”
Keep up the great work Jeff!
"family man"
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