That is exactly what's happened to you if you've bought off on the most recent statement that Mr. Kekel typed on his blog concerning the reason's that "fellowship meetings" were essentially stopped.
First point: Mr Kekel said that fellowship meetings need to be quote "supervised" by an overseer. So a "pastor" can start a church from scratch, travel all over the world, spend time in the military, supposedly be "called and chosen" by God (according to RWD) to lead souls to a place of eternal peace, and he can't be trusted to meet with others who hold like qualifications to have church without quote "supervision"? You are kidding right? Especially after they did it for decades?
Second point: Mr Kekel said that the primary reason that fellowship meetings were stopped was to "ease the financial burden on the churches". Of course this is after he said that pastors needed to be supervised but I've already left that point. Financial burden? I spent years in the NTCC and fellowship meetings never caused me an additional financial burden? In fact they saved me money. Let me make one thing perfectly clear. If there hadn't been fellowship meetings, I would have spend money on gas driving all over creation that Saturday for a trip to the church in the morning, soul winning, money on food during the at least 6 hour period while we were out, a trip to the determined location where we'd turn in our stupid reports, back home if we even had time and if not, more money spent on another meal, picking up people for church, putting money in the offering, taking people back home and then finally, a trip back to my house. You are kidding right Kekel? I don't care if the fellowship meeting was four hours away. It didn't cost me any more money to go there then it did to stay right were I was at? As far as the actual "church" was concerned, if a preacher loosing the offering money which essentially amounted to the chump change given by the "Saturday's" usual small crowd hurt his wallet, then your system has made him too broke in the first place. I don't buy it Kekel because what you've written makes no sense at all, and I haven't lost my ability or will to think with my brain which you didn't successfully steal from me even though you certainly tried hard enough. That explanation is lame and insulting. If those preachers are that broke, the problem isn't fellowship meetings but rather them needing to get a better job with more hours or get a job period! Oh, but once again it's not about the church members financial stability but about them staying in their own town every Saturday while spending every dime of their own money that the church can suck out of them so the "Church" isn't financially affected!!!!
Third Point: Kekel wrote... "But for some people (referring to the ministers), everything is a burden." Oh really? Boy isn't that an insult!!! These are supposedly Gods elite spokesman who RWD placed according to God's direction in their respective positions and for some of them, "everything is a burden"? Everything is a problem for them, right Kekel? They are complainers, whiners, never happy, right Kekel? So you feel that way but you actually keep these men in positions as pastors and I'm supposed to be stupid enough to believe they are qualified to lead me to heaven? Really?! Are they supposed to be stupid enough to let a spoiled brat like you who has never had to struggle for a dime refer to them like that? That is easy for you to say you pathetic piece of trash. Everything has been handed to you on a platter so you don't know what it's like to have a quote, "burden". Your church was handed to you, your geographical stability was handed to you, all the tithe money was handed to you, an exemption of all the rules that applied to other NTCC children was handed to you. You don't know what a burden is or what it's like to struggle Mr Kekel, so therefor you can even relate to their "burdens". You better believe everything is a burden when you encourage them not to work, while pioneering a church with a wife and kids under toe, while at the same time they are sending half the money that comes into their church up to Graham to fund your son's $80,000 high school education and secular Catholic college. That would be a burden for me also!!! Makes me sick.
Forth point: Kekel said a few preachers strove over who was leading service, whose wife would sing and who would preach. So you stopped a practice that's existed for decades because of a "few" preachers conduct? Sounds like a knee jerk mass punishment to me. Frankly I witnessed some of the same but my question is, what makes you, Mr. Kekel, qualified to judge those other pastors? Kekel's spoiled wife was handed every microphone that ever came anywhere near her on a platter and so was Kekel, even though he doesn't preach nearly as effectively as many others I've heard. And not only that, but if that is the way Kekel and RWD feels about so many NTCC pastors, why in the world would they even leave them in church leadership positions? Because it ain't about souls if you guys and your wives are that petty and they know it. It's about the expansion of their real-estate empire at whatever cost. How on Gods green earth is a pastor supposed to lead souls to heaven if those are the things he's worried about. Kekel dogged you guys out, plain and simple and don't say, "none of that applies to me" because it certainly was directed at a whole lot more than just one, or they wouldn't have canceled fellowship meetings altogether unless there is "SUPERVISION".
Fifth point: The truth of the matter is, I don't believe any of the reasons he gave are the "MAIN" reason they stopped fellowship meetings without the presents of "supervision". Too many people are leaving the NTCC and they don't want you guys talking in the absence of supervision, plain and simple. It's called censorship or information control; cult 101. They know that when you guys are allowed to talk freely, in the absence of supervision, you'll learn how crooked they are and wind up leaving the NTCC just like MDR, Barnes, Granger, Scrivins and all the rest. If so many of you guys are as ate-up as Kekel suggested, why in the world do they even keep you or your associates as pastors? Do you actually believe that the kind of conduct that Kekel described is going to get people to heaven? If you do, you are one seriously mislead, blind leading the blind individual, and that is why I left the NTCC.
Chief
218 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 218 of 218Ho, Steakboy's throwing out some meat! Sure enough, RW's a real-life Elmer Gantry, and we were just too befuddled with sincerity and love for God to even suspect the truth--that this "Apostle" was just another typical two bit poser and ripoff artist with a personality disorder that enabled him to shamelessly exploit the most decent people just for his own gratification and gain, and without appearing to suffer the least pang of conscience).
Sick mofo indeed.
So we just submerged our own personal knowledge and common sense and imbibed the poisoned sensibilities (if they can be called that) of a twisted man. It was a weird experience to try to assume the personality of another, especially when it involved alien values and aesthetics. Well, I never did wear wingtips, so the assimilation was incomplete and eventually overthrown.
The org has always been the personification of RW davis. Olson: "Brethren, the organization IS RW Davis." Everything had his stamp on it. Now he's fading away, and the young turks are striving to reinvent NTCC's image. Unfortunately for them, there are hundreds, even thousands, who were there during the heyday, and we haven't forgotten the culture. They can't have it both ways; they can't completely change while simultaneously denying they have changed. Well, they can (and do), but it only reveals their utter lack of credibility.
NTCC has been thoroughly discredited in public by dozens of witnesses and hundreds of factual accounts of hypocrisy and arrogance. I hope it continues to dwindle; each one who leaves represents another triumph over bondage.
Test.
Don't like these new comment forms! Can't see the comments above # 200 unless you click into the blog post title, then you can't leave a comment unless you click back into the comment form page. Blogger needs to get with it!
I'm with you, I feel the same way. That is why I left a test to try to figure out where it would go and how I could get to it. Oh, well, it is what it is. If you and I can figure out how to rebuild Google, I guess we'll be billionaires. Until that time comes, (which will likely be never) I guess we have to deal with it. On an android phone, you can't even see past 200 no matter where you go. I certainly couldn't figure it out.
That is one of the reasons I started a new thread after this one. When it got to about 197 and I didn't see a widget to let you view past 200 on the comment section, I kind of put 2+2 together and started a new thread because I figured as much.
Chief
Chiefster
~
The Androids automatically load a mobile view and right now it does not show comments above #200 in the mobile view BUT at the bottom of the mobile view page you can opt to "View Web Version". In the web version format you can see all the coments by clicking into the title of the post. At the bottom of the coments there are links for new or newest comments. By clicking those links you can see the comments # 201+.
Thanks the big D. You always figure that stuff out.
The Chiefster
Thanks, that helped a lot. Web view is outstanding.
Chief
No problem ~ glad to help. In web version you can use the Droid to expand or shrink the text. By putting your thumb and index finger on the screen and pushing them away from each other (the opposite of a pinching motion) the items on the screen expand (or shrink if you pinch). That's handy for small fonts. With the small size scrolling or flicking to the bottom of the page is faster than with the large text size. But watch the side to side flicking-if you move sideways that brings up previous or last posts... Love the Droid! It's great for zooming in on pictures too. Sometimes you have to long press the pic and select "view photo" befote the zoom feature will work; but it's worth it. :-)
Cool Droid Tips, thanks for the tips. I just got a Razor. I've had the first Motorola Droid ever build for the last few years. I only upgraded because my daughter needed a new phone and Best Buy had a Verizon deal where you got two Droid Razors for less then the MSRP of one with a two year contract which my daughter had to get anyway to upgrade. Down here in lower Georgia, Verizon by far has the best coverage. Sprint and especially ATT isn't very good down here. ATT is really bad.
I generally don't go on the internet with my Droid, but I've been in school and haven't had the liberty during the day to get to a computer with internet access. Obviously I wasn't even familiar with the web-view and neither was the Verizon rep I talked to because I actually called and asked for some guidance on web-browsing options. I'm good to go now as my class is over tomorrow and I'll be back to my regular computer when I want internet access. I will use the Droid occasionally.
Take it easy Droid Tips.
Chief
Man! You take a break for a Season and your trying to catch up: STEAKBOY?? Ha Ha thats a good name, very original. Hi everybody! Still going strong in Afghanistan
Bro Johnson
Hello all,
Senior Pastor Kekel wrote..."The primary reason for this, (sic) was to ease the financial burden on the churches and pastors, and stop the monthly disruption of their schedules."
Gregory writes..."So why are they still having Conferences?"
If they have to get rid of only one, get rid of Conferences. Being gone for a week (or more; when we were in Korea we would be gone about 4 weeks) twice a year is much more disruptive than one Saturday per month. Additionally, the total cost for bi-annual Conference is always more expensive (loss of pay for two weeks, gas, food for two weeks [3 meals per day], hotel, possible car rental, and 8 or more offerings) than ten fellowship meetings a year (usually three or 4 of which we hosted, so didn’t have to go anywhere; plus, for the meetings we hosted, we could still get our soul-winning done before; so the ‘disruption’ was reduced to 7 or six Saturdays per year).
When we were in Korea, each stateside Conference/Seminar we went to cost us about $7,800. A Philippines Conference cost us about $4,000.
To further clarify, it cost us an average of $7,800 to go to one National Conference in Missouri from South Korea. We went to both stateside Conferences, the Seminar, and both Asian Conferences (at $4,000 each) in 2006. So, counting lost income from time taken off work (for Deb and me) we spent about $31,400 going to five Conferences in 2006. If you count the eight mandatory Korea fellowship meetings this same year at $200 each (includes train fair, or gas and tolls, food, lodging, and offerings) this will bring the total up to $33,000. 2006 was an extreme exception.
All other years (1998, 1999, 2000, 2004, and 2005; in 2007 we didn’t go to any Conference, since they were now no longer mandatory), going to these same church functions (2 stateside, 1 Philippines) cost us about $21,200. A stateside Conference (1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 2001, 2002, and 2003) usually cost us about $1,500 each; whereas a stateside fellowship meeting costs us about $75.
Plus (looking back), I always got more lasting substance out of fellowship meetings...mainly because I was being preached to (not at), and fellow-shipping with (not for), people that were in the trenches (people just like me), who had even more time than me applying what they had been taught (as opposed to those who only ever teach); rather than the "Graham Hibernators" who only come out of their den twice a year.
And, with a monthly fellowship meeting, you didn’t have to worry about Pastor Davis picking on you, your wife, your children (if you had any), or other ministers—or enduring his obscene/racist jokes, and his titillating remarks about women’s body parts—so there was no tension.
I agree Jeff; the ‘only’ main reason they stopped fellowship meeting is to better control the flow of information. All of Senior Pastor Kekel’s myriad reasons (excuses) never hold up under even the most minimal examination.
Yours in Him,
Gregory
You're right Greg. Kekel's comments are a joke. I can literally think of no one who I'd like to be around less than Kekel, RWD, Tanya or Olson. No exaggeration. I no longer have any tolerance for a religious crook who uses the name of Christ for gain because with the NTCC leaders, it clearly ain't about holiness. Anyone who still thinks so after they've read this blog is blind as a bat. We ain't just making all this stuff up.
Chief
This is what they had to say about the money raised for World Missions on their website - World Missions Fundraising
It would be interesting to get a breakdown of the expenses because I don't know any group that would want to act on a 3 year deficit. How is that difference paid and are they co-mingling funds? Why are the expenses for 3 years over $300,000?
I don't think the rent at all of the places overseas plus the monthly stipend they send their missionaries for all 3 years would even total $100,000. Most of the overseas churches are Servicemen's Homes, but you do have the churches in the Philippines (Bible school, main church and outstations) and Panama.
There is a difference because in the Servicemen's Homes they have the home fees and those that are considered faithful who tithe and give in an offering with American money or its equivalent. Also some pastors may work on base or get other income from the military, like for disabilities.
Another thing about these missionary churches is the exchange rates. If you send a US dollar to the Philippines or Panama it can go further than Germany or England.
$1 USD = $43 Peso
$1 USD = $1 Balboa
$1 USD = $.80 Euro
$1 USD = $.63 Pounds
This might give you an idea of the cost of living in a main city like Manila - Cost of Living - Philippines
Cost of Living - Panama
Some good info but to a guy with my knowledge, those figures mean little. The NTCC way is to take up offerings for everything imaginable and the only ones sacrificing are the average ministers and church members. Davis and Kekel don't know the meaning of sacrifice because they don't have to do it. Those guys could give a $500,000 dollars and it wouldn't put as much of a dent in their wallets as $10 dollars does to the average church member or struggling minister.
Christ gave the perfect example which is chronicled in the gospels.
Mar 12:43 That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: 12:44 For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.
Dude, I'm not giving one penny to the NTCC under those circumstances. The Davis money making machine could easily support the NTCC's endeavors without me or anyone else struggling to give another 5 dollars. Especially when Kekel and RWD live such excessive lifestyles. They preached at us about what they previously called a "self car" which was anything other than a van or sedan but those guys spend money on all kinds of garbage.
I don't look at money given to so called "world missions" as a means to support some struggling minister. I look at it as a contribution that will lesson the burden on millionaires like Kekel and Davis who have more money than the rest of us could even dream of. I'm not supporting yet another mansion for Kekel, nicer clothing for Tanya, better unnecessary furniture for the Kekels, a better education for Grant, another collectable car for Kekel, more guns for RWD, another knife for RWD who's entire collection is being left to Grant the dude who is not even saved, another rolex for RWD, another Cadillac or RV etc.
I'm not even trying to hear it. The NTCC won't get one more penny out of me or anyone else who I can influence. If Kekel is so worried about "world mission" let him and his father in law foot the whole bill.
Chief
the ntcc's world missions is just a front so they can get more money.
i have seen many churches who do alot more for "world missions" than ntcc could ever dream of.
Why do people keep giving money to these con-artists ?
Here's another view of ntcc
Richard Pryor preacher aka NTCC without the disguise
network 23
Hello
M.D Reed its Austin from Killeen idk if youll ever read this but if you do write me at kindredaustin@yahoo.com
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