A while back, Mike Kekel wrote an article on his blog called "Ain't Misbehaven". I'm astounded that Mike would even publish and openly display such information. Approximately one year ago I posted an article referencing what Mike wrote titled "The Irony Of It All". Directly below is a link which will take you straight to that article.
Anyway, I wanted to repost what M.C. Kekel wrote because I'm still amazed that he'd be so careless as to throw his father-in-law, RWD under the bus in such a fashion. Either that, or it's part of yet another New Testament Christian Church master plan to allow in what they've called "compromise" for decades.
M.C. Kekel wrote and I quote...
"I do not make the rules, and have only recently had opportunity to affect them. In the past I have only been in the unfortunate position of having to enforce them. That doesn't mean I agreed with them. If so be they were mistakes, they weren't mine. As for the church organization? I have nothing to do with policies and doctrines of the organization concerning things like TV (which ministers aren't to have if they carry license in NTCC- unless it is solely as a gaming monitor or something, and not connected to TV input) and couldn't change them if I wanted to. If that gets changed, Rev. Olson will have to do it by mandate or through board approval. I have no such power. Even in the Bible School realm I am limited."
"My influence on the bible school rules has only been to lighten them, not increase them. Further, since I wasn't a bible school student during that time, I was not UNDER those rules. The sports rule was not bible based to begin with, and was for bible school students. Not me."
Chief said...
These statements absolutely amaze me!!!!!! They're jaw dropping. I don't know how anyone in the New Testament Christian Church could ignore these statements if they have a conscience or any intelligence or common sense. Do you really trust the NTCC leadership with the task of guiding you to heaven? Really? There are two people who are key leaders in the NTCC; namely R.W. Davis and M.C. Kekel. These statements (written by one NTCC executive board member, namely M.C. Kekel) made a complete mockery of the Founder of the NTCC, namely R.W. Davis. Who do you think came up with all the rules and or endorsed every last one? RWD!!! Basically Mike wrote, (and of course I'm paraphrasing here) that he was the unlucky scapegoat who had the dubious distinction of having to enforce a bunch of bogus rules that he didn't agree with and had nothing to do with in the first place. Boy if that ain't throwing RWD, and the rest of the general board under the bus, I don't know what in the world is?
Listen here, armed with this information, I'd have no reason to believe that God inspired one single rule that RWD ever spewed out of his big fat mouth. "Ask permission to go visit who"? "Ask permission to stop where"? "Ask permission to accept a job"? "Ask permission to date or talk to who"? "Stand against the wall just to talk to a woman"? "You said it's a sin for all women to work"? "Where is that rule found in the Bible, Proverbs 31"? "REALLY, ARE YOU SERIOUS, ARE YOU KIDDING ME"?
Obey them that have rule over you? When I know that they have a history of coming up with a bunch of bogus rules that Kekel doesn't even agree with, and he considers himself to be unfortunate for even having to enforce them? REALLY? Huh!! Never again. I'm a grown man with a family to look out for. You can follow a bunch of stupid rules and con artists if you want to but I'm not the one.
Chief
P.S. I wouldn't follow M.C. Kekel or RWD to find a toilet (say no less as spiritual leaders) if I had diarrhea.
131 comments:
Anonymous said...
Greetings... I stumbled on this blog and I would like to add my two cents. I was a woman in the NTCC for a few years, and it nearly ruined my life. I was just a member, but any single woman in the church can attest that you are quickly pushed through to a higher "rank" since they have so many single brethren they want to marry you off to.
I was miserable at the church. I was always broke trying to meet their unreasonable demands and I was "hunted" by dysfunctional men 10+ years my senior. I was discouraged from any form of self improvement, be it education or exercise or repairing relationships with my family. Yeah, RWD and his minions like to laugh at the "fat ladies" in their church... Of course the women are fat... You ever tried to jog in a dress with a poofy hairstyle?
I'd like to attest, for the women still in NTCC, it can and does get better for us too when you leave. It is hard to divorce your husband (yes, if he insists he wants to stay *in*, you may have to or the abuse will never stop... I did.), pack your bags, and try again... but you can. If I can, you can. Since leaving, I've lost all the weight... I've rebuilt my self esteem... I went to college and got both baccalaureate and masters degrees... I've bought a home and a car... and I've married a wonderful Christian man. The hardest part was rebuilding the self-esteem... but you can do it and you can find the person you were before you were convinced you weren't.
If you want to leave, but are scared, please trust me: you can do it. Your life can be different and can be much better. You do not have to suffer the indignities that NTCC forces upon you.
God bless.
Wow, thank you for that comment, this is the very reason why I come out on this blog. I too left and got my "self" back and it is a wonderful, empowering feeling. I am a woman and I too was just a member. I was married, all the while my husband did not like the "frumpy" woman I had become. I lost everything that felt good about me. I loved your comment about "you ever tried to jog in a dress and poofy hair" So true. This cult makes you lose your identity and self esteem. You can lose your family "they think you are weird" and gee, try to make some friends in the NTCC, so if you leave you will lose what few friends you had while in the NTCC. So what, come to find out, they did not care about you anyway, when you leave they shun you. So you can't lose what you never really had in the first place. I have moved on, this is a place where I come to vent and get more information about the CULT I attended for many years. I'm out....
lol u guys are a bunch of losers, nit picking and finding fault. if you were saved you wouldn't be saying all these things. much less post them for everyone to view lol. i wouldnt follow where your going either because if im not carefull instead of being at the toilet i might end up in hell.
have a great day ^_^
The jerk said: lol u guys are a bunch of losers, nit picking and finding fault.
And you are a moron. You might want to pull your head out the toilet. Actually you probably like having your head in the toilet so your nose can be close to all the ntcc poop. I'm sure you like having your nose close to Davis butt.
It is not a matter of being saved, its a matter of realizing I was mixed up in a religious cult. I am sure you are a man and have no idea what it is like to be a woman in the NTCC. Get off this site! Your ignorant views are not welcome here. Go back to texting, LOL, judgmental, hypocritical Christian behaviour like yours is why I left the NTCC in the first place.
A question for you, Why are you out here? Doesn't Kekel and Davis preach that being out here is "of the devil"?
NTCCers,
Before you post a response to a comment, I would encourage you to do a quick search to ensure you understand all the terms that you are using. Language is powerful, and when it is used incorrectly it conveys a lack of intelligence and/or insincerity.
For example, our "saved" commentator wrote: u guys are a bunch of losers, nit picking and finding fault.
First and foremost, let's begin with the term "nit picking". To "nit-pick" means to criticize even the most minor perceived transgressions that most social norms would consider pointing out to be rude. Consider the literal picking of a nit (a very tiny bug, for you city-folk).
Conversely, bringing up legitimate complaints of a serious nature, such as the charge of nearly ruining one's life through manipulation of their faith, is far from "nit-picking." An example of "nit-picking" is criticizing a sister from the pulpit for wearing the same dress twice in a week, or humiliating a brother for not being as generous on his offering due to financial hardships. Hopefully you can now use the term correctly and avoid future embarrassment.
Secondly, your use of the term "finding fault" is awkward, incorrect, and intellectually dishonest. Authority left unquestioned has led to some of the most egregious atrocities in human history. Although extreme examples, I ask you to consider slavery or the Holocaust. As a self-professed Christian, if you had heard someone say that the Nazis should not have been questioned and that anyone taking issue with their tactics and rhetoric were just "fault finders," I hope you would be appalled. A more modern example would be if you disagreed with the Justice Department's poorly planned "Operation Fast & Furious." Are you “fault finding,” or are you seeing major problems that exist in a high profile organization abusing its power? An example of "fault finding" is a wife nagging at her husband for missing the hamper with his clothes, or a husband being annoyed with his wife for making chicken again. (See "nit-picking.")
Now that I have addressed your errors in language, I feel I must counter your grammatically incorrect, intellectually lazy, sarcastic, and rude statement with this simple counter-point: Questions are good. Identifying problems and bringing them to the surface to work out are good. That is how lasting human institutions grow and continue through the ages. Christ himself pointed out the problems with the Pharisees and their wrong-doings. He was outraged at their manipulation of people’s faith for their own purposes. He turned over their tables in an act of anger. Does not Christian literally mean Christ-like? I am not sure how to be more Christ-like than to be angry at those who prey on and manipulate people’s faith.
NTCC cannot and will not be a lasting institution, because it refuses to address its problems. Until and unless someone changes that, their demise is inevitable. The keepers of this blog, and its occasional commentators, would simply like to mitigate the damage that can be done before the expiration date finally comes.
Your church does not have God cornered. I am not even convinced your church is all that concerned with God. He is much bigger than you, so why don't you grow some humility and learn that you don't have all the answers. That is the first step to saving your beloved church, and yourself.
Sincerely,
The “Anonymous” who moved on, has a few degrees, and is at peace with herself and her Creator.
"i wouldnt follow where your going either because if im not carefull instead of being at the toilet i might end up in hell."
Aww, You just like toilets! Ntcc Goofus!
Actually, if our guess is right, this comment was made by Ember from Louisville, KY, or that's what she calls herself. She was on our blog making a bunch of ignorant comments just like the one above.
So Ember, if that's your name, what do you want for us to do, have a great day, or go to hell? Sounds like you are very well grounded in the faith. Such love exudes from your heart. That's okay, it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round. We are X ntcc members and we accept anyone regardless of their past. I know that you've been taught that anyone who leaves the ntcc cult is the enemy of God, but we are known to accept people just like you, regardless of their issues. What happens in the ntcc, is that people like you make it for a few years in your civilian church, and then some abusive jerk of a pastor comes along and decides it's your turn to get rebuked. You don't even have to sin, you just have to be present for this to happen.
Maybe when it's your turn to get rebuked in front of your so called friends, and you are ignored and shunned by those you thought loved you, a light will come on in your head and your eyes will be opened.
Until then we hope that you can replace the negativity in your life with something Good. Try listening to some calming music; or meet some new friends that don't feed your anger so much. Take a trip to the zoo or museum. Do something to take your mind away from the ntcc for a few minutes. They say you are what you eat, and I guess the same is true with your emotions and attitude.
Hopefully, you'll get over this so you can get on with your life. Bitterness will eat you alive. Take care and let us know if we can be of any further assistance. We might not be able to help you but we can possibly refer you to a trained professional that deals with cult survivors and can help you identify the issues you have and slowly un-program your mind and introduce you back into a normal life again.
DnA
2Cr 11:15 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Cr 11:15 Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Yes, I would say that fits a description of the NTCC's Davis and Kekel. We all will reap what we sow. What have they sown????
I hope you all had a wonderful 4th of July and spent it with family and friends, something you could not do while in the NTCC. Unless it was permitted, of course. Oh wait, family, you can't see them, or don't want to, and friends, if they aren't in the NTCC, forget about that too.
Ive only been reading some of these blogs for a month or so, I attended ntcc
for a short time while in the service 20+yrs ago. You read some names that
seem vaguely familiar then something jogs the memory. Brian Pelfrey I remember
was in the Air Force stationed I think at Clark maybe was TDY in Kadena. This
around 89/90, I think his wife Tracy was expecting at the time (if I remember
correctly im getting old and the memory goes first). Brian was one classy guy
,very well mannered, very polite. Both he and his wife were very loyal and
respectful to the ntcc and to Rev Ashmore &Rev Blumenthal. They in return
ADORED this couple! I knew he was planning to go to the BS. Kinda makes you
wonder what went wrong or maybe you grow older and have a different
perspective. What ever happened to your sidekick back then, you two would
entertain us at the servicemens home with great impersonations ,one was the
filipino tailor discussing going to town and another was 2 grumpy old men
,you guys were hilarious. Whatever happened to him did he go to BS also? Some
of those other brothers were real fired up about BS too , dont remember all
their names though I think Dan was one of them do you know if most stayed
With ntcc?
Brian and Tracy divorced a few years ago after leaving the org. The "sidekick" is probably Mick Lloyd-Owen; he left too. You can find him on Facebook. Blumethal was caught up in an adultery scandal years ago and kicked out. Ashmore is still in the soul deceiving business.
It's guaranteed that most of the people you are wondering about are long gone from NTCC--it's a trap, and eventually people realize it and remove themselves from that destructive environment. Be thankful that you didn't let them get their hook in you--it took me sixteen years to get off the line.
Thanks Vic for the information.
Being reminded of the Pelfrey's divorce makes me grateful my husband and I were married before getting involved with NTCC. Our marriage struggled while in that church. When we finally left, we were able to peel off all of the bad marital advice and practices and get back to why we we married in the first place. Our marriage was based on love, friendship, and a mutual respect for each other. NTCC makes you act like a jerk and jerkette to your spouse and kids. It's no wonder that marriages born in NTCC don't survive or struggle severely when you leave. The foundation is rotten, based mostly on lust, desperation, and status.
I honesty can't see how many women, married to a minister or another member can be truly happily married in the NTCC. My eight plus years in Graham showed me a lot, those women didn't seem happy, if body language says anything, not sitting with your spouse, no laughter, just all superfical stuff is what it looked like to me, and how can you really be happy about your marriage when you had to look like a typical NTCC woman, long hair, plain faced, dowdy clothing, how can a woman ever think she is truly pleasing to her husband when we had to look like that. Yeah, we are in the world but not of the world, but come on, frumpy aint attractive, thin or overweight. I remember seeing a woman marry a BS student, before she was fashionably dressed, then after she married I saw her at Value Village, I know because I saw this woman go from fashionable to frumpy, if women in the NTCC think they look good, they need to come out of the fog. Been there done that.
Anonymous said...
It's no wonder that marriages born in NTCC don't survive or struggle severely when you leave. The foundation is rotten, based mostly on lust, desperation, and status.
Chief said...
It's no wonder that marriages don't survive with people who are still in the NTCC. The NTCC's system for couples getting acquainted absolutely sucks. NTCC ministers don't know jack about marriage or child rearing. The Kekels are the only ones who did a decent job with child rearing and that's because they broke all the rules with Grant.
I'm out. Can't stick around too long because I'd like to throw my left shoe at Davis's head and my right shoe at Kekel's. Those two are no more than a couple common criminals and con-artists who use religion to brainwash people and beat the system. No more, no less.
Chief
Hey, Anonymous,
You may have known some of these folks in the Philippines:
Toby Catlett
Howard Gire
Ted and Jean Keys
Rev Keys and his wife took over the work in the PI from the Ashmores. Their first day in country there was an earthquake.
Later they came to Colorado Springs to take over the work when davis moved the tiemans. The Keys used to tell us funny stories about Howard imitating the way Filipinos say fire as "pfire"; and when saying "Thank you" they would raise the last note of the sentence "Thank YOU!" If you have heard it, you know what we mean. :o)
Anyway it sounded like they had a good group of people there, having fun.
By the way,
Rev. and Sis. Keys left ntcc and so did Toby Catlett.
Last I knew Howard was still 'in' ntcc. He has a Facebook page HowardandTerri Gire
Thanks Vic and Don for the info that 'sidekick'
of Brian was Howard Gire ; them 2 had some
real funny routines they would do at the
servicemens home in Okinowa. Brian, howard
and tracy would come there for their jobs. They
were probably in a mobility unit or something idn. I was never in the philipines so i didnt know
everyone there. I was stationed in Colorado Springs in late 91/all 92 and i did visit the service
mens home once where i met the young couple
who were the pastors but dont recall their last
name although Keys sounds familiar.
Im surprised to hear what happened to rev
blumenthal as he was SO successful in overseas
missions. He was also one of the ntcc kids growing
up in st louis, rev davis was like a dad to him from
what he described growing up there.
Don i read ur website and that truly is an
incredible story of what u went thru, Im glad
it worked out well in the end for the 2 of u. It
also gives someone like me better insight to what
some of the x'ers went thru and why they r
so down on the ntcc
Anon said," rev davis was like a dad to him from
what he described growing up there."
I looked up to Davis as fatherly figure also, but later was to find out that he was just like my biological father...A disgusting, perverted, HYPOCRITE! I'm just glad that our Heavenly Father is not like any of these FOOLS!
Anonymous said:
"I was stationed in Colorado Springs in late 91/all 92 and i did visit the service mens home once where i met the young couple
who were the pastors but dont recall their last name although Keys sounds familiar."
DnA said:
Both Ange and I were stationed at Fort Carson where we met in 90. Ange went on to the ntcc Cult indoctrination school in Graham, and I remained at Ft. Carson until 92, and was most likely there when you visited.
During our time there we had the Tiemans, Keys and Olivarez's for Pastors, in that order. Ange was there for the Tieman, Keys transition, and the Olivarez's came after her departure. Toby Catlett was also in the Airforce and was stationed at Peterson, I believe while attending services in Colorado Springs. He would have also been there in late 91 and all of 92. I came down on orders in later on in 92 for a second tour in Korea.
While in Korea, both times, I visited the Blumethals going to and from the states on leave. I remember many of the Brethren that were in Okinawa. There was also a brother named Rob Reuter and his wife Abby, not sure if they were married yet, but I remembered them.
It's a shame that the ntcc was so currupt in the highest places because there were a lot of very good people that experienced true salvation and we all gave much of our lives to this group thinking we were in a spotless church, when in all actuality, we would have been much better off in just about any of the thousands of denominational churches that were mocked daily from ntcc pulpits. Many churches have their problems and many church leaders have fallen, but in the ntcc, everything evil has been swept under the carpet. RWD and his band of thugs are really swimming in the bottom of the slop bucket, in search of good biscuits. They are non-repentant and full of hypocrisy and wickedness. What a colossal cover-up.
DnA
Anonymous said:
"Don i read ur website and that truly is an incredible story of what u went thru, Im glad
it worked out well in the end for the 2 of u. It also gives someone like me better insight to what
some of the x'ers went thru and why they r so down on the ntcc"
DnA said:
Thank you Anonymous for your sentiment. There are so many testimonies that are on This blog, our X-er blog and old Factnet, of many lives were ruined and destroyed. Our story is one of many and for every one story you read there are probably a dozen that could be told. Many people fear reprisal and will not come forward with their experiences. Others are still brainwashed and believe that if they speak against the ntcc and its leaders that they will die and go to hell.
Our testimony was pretty damning to the ntcc in that it reveals the true nature of what happens in many of the controlling churches. They have created an environment where sin is exposed and people are humiliated in the lower levels of church membership, but it is hidden and ignored among the leadership.
I think if everyone spilled their guts about what they have seen and experienced in the ntcc, our story of adultery and prevalent homosexuality among the church leadership would not be quite as shocking. There are many more people that are silent then there are that are willing to speak out.
We might seem to be "down" on the ntcc, but if all of their crooked real estate and financial dealings were to be publicly exposed and all of their sexual promiscuity were to be revealed, along with all of the child molesters and women abusers, these crooked hypocrites would be hauled off to jail and then everyone would be talking. We continue to do our part.
DnA
Anonymous said:
"I looked up to Davis as fatherly figure also, but later was to find out that he was just like my biological father...A disgusting, perverted, HYPOCRITE! I'm just glad that our Heavenly Father is not like any of these FOOLS!"
DnA said:
Amen!!!
I was stationed at peterson in late 91/92 but i only visited the servicemens
home once because i was already attending another church in that area and
i knew to stay with the servicemens home i would be expected to go to BS
and i didnt want to commit to that, but i still had the highest respect for
everyone there and for the ntcc. i remember one brother i met there was pretty
cool and funny, he was a tall african-american brother but i dont know if
he was toby or not . the pastors didnt appear to be spanish so im guessing
they were the keys , do you know what ever happened to them? there were
definitely many wonderful folk in the ntcc that i had the privilege of meeting.
I once used to think that if there was one christian i wanted to be like if i could it
was rev blumenthal. it just goes to show us we all need to get and keep our eyes
on Jesus and not on a man or a church.
The tall black brother would be Patrick Henderson. He was a barrel of laughs. We had some good times back then and did some crazy stuff. I'm sure the we gave our Pastor's some gray hairs, but we had a pretty good time doing it. It's a shame that we had to live our Christian lives in such a controlling environment. Remembering the great fellowship and friendships from those days is both sweet and bitter because many of these good people were hurt unnecessarily. If folks would just preach the Gospel and trust people to trust God without interfering with their individuality and ability to serve God out of love instead of fear, the world would be a much better place.
Love and compassion need to be the driving force within a group of believers instead of greed and power. Back then at one point we had a church full of good people that were hungry for God, including the Pastor, but because of the pressure for money and control that came from the ntcc leadership, very few people from that group stayed in the ntcc. The Keys and just about every member of that church group that I can think of are no longer going along with the ntcc charade.
Many of us departed at different stages of our lives, and many are still Christians or have found their way back to God. I am forever grateful that God gave to me the one person that I loved and wanted to share my life with. I think it worked out this way according to God's purpose, and I'm so glad that there is freedom in Christ.
DnA
As far as Howard Gire, he was previously married to a white woman and now he's married to a Filipino woman. I heard that he had alot of problems with the first one and later after they divorced and remarried (pretty quickly), she showed up in Graham to attend a service. Imagine being in the same church service with your ex-husband and new wife....As you can guess it would be pretty awkward and I doubt she's still attending.
Actually this kind of stuff is more common place in the ntcc than you might think. There are many couples that are living in biblical adultery. One spouse leaves the other and both get remarried and stay in the ntcc. One person testified that he knew two couples that divorced and all four individuals remarried inside the ntcc causing 8 people to live in adultery. The ntcc is not a wholesome organization that is pure as the wind driven snow. The ntcc is a big recycling center. If you get married and things don't work out, the pattern has been to recycle people into new marriages. There are many people all the way up to the top, like Davis who have grown weary of their first wife and ditched her for another.
On many occasions one spouse is encouraged by the ntcc leadership to leave the other because the other will not fall lock step into the ntcc program.
The ntcc has split up entire families on numerous occasions, because one person wanted to serve God in another church. That spouse would be labelled as an unbeliever by the borg leadership and even though that spouse wanted to keep their marriage, their partner would be persuaded by the ntcc leaders to dump them and remarry.
In many cases there are ntcc'rs that have been married multiple times. Typical cult. Marry them young and use them up, then find another. The ntcc recycling center is open for business.
A pastor in a church i went to after i got out
of the service whom i was telling about the
ntcc and the great works they were doing told me
that groups like that often will appear really
clean and holy on the outside but will do things
like swap wives at night. i sure thought that
was a harsh statement then and someone
just being critical. now that i look back and
reading these blogs that is looking like a very
insightful comment
The ntcc frustrates the grace of God. They have their own version of the law, and they refer to it as outward holiness. It is more important to them to live by a strict set of rules, and to impose those rules on others than it is to abide by the very basic fundamentals of Christianity, like loving their neighbor as themselves, giving to the poor and helping the fatherless and widows. They follow the letter of the law perfectly as they trample all over others, making Christ's death in vain.
It seems apparent that the ntcc is using what they call holiness to hide a multitude of sins. If the head is sick, than the whole body is sick, and there is no doubt that the head is terminally ill. More people are turned off by the ntcc because the world is sick of religion and the ntcc is about as religious as a church can be. The more rules they make up, the more they disregard love, grace and mercy. They are trying to create their own gospel that leads to their own heaven. Their heaven excludes many people to include Jesus. Jesus would never be welcome in their church because he wouldn't pay tithe to them. Maybe Jesus didn't get the memo that all Christians pay tithe and give in offerings because he never mentioned it once in all of the words he left for us, while the ntcc mentions it every time they get together to play church.
DnA
Do you think that people put their faith in Jesus get saved and then in Bible School, the object of faith becomes NTCC and RWD?
That is dangerous as it no more faith, but law.
I bet if everyone who was faithful to NTCC that left would get together for a weekend, that would be bigger than any conference that NTCC has ever had.
That's not a good record for a CEO.
Yes. I think people in ntcc put their faith in rw. They measure their actions by WWDD - what would davis do. Or what would davis think. He is their god.
True. There are more Xers than ntcc members. Having just come from a mini-Xer-conference, I gotta say: It would be a blast to have a full-scale Xer conference! Good times with God's children unshackled from manmade doctrine. Can't beat that.
As a woman, I can’t begin to say how thankful I am to be free from ntcc. If your a lady and you enjoy being overweight, unattractive, uneducated, broke, no transportation, low self esteem, no skills, no social life, submissive, being isolated, no interaction with your family, no friends (except for the “brothers” and “sisters” at the church) and most of all living in fear of God’s wrath you will fit right in at ntcc. I for one do not want any part of that bondage ever again!!! Here’s the simple truth, the ntcc wants to keep the women living in fear and bondage because when you take a moment and think about it- what kind of life would she have if she left!?? Let’s see…no money, probably no family (because they make you alienate yourself) no job, no skills, (because you haven’t worked) no education, throw in a couple of children and wham bam they have you trapped…And that’s exactly where they want to keep you!! I absolutely despise the ntcc. I can’t stand the way they treat women. They are all a bunch of liars and hypocrites. They use fear to get what they want out of people. They tell you all kinds of lies about how God is going to pour out his wrath on you if you don’t do exactly what they tell you to do. Basically, they control you and get you to give them all your money out of fear of being judge by God’s wrath. The funny thing is once you get away from it- you look back and wonder how on earth did I ever believe those lies!? That’s all it is-a bunch of lies that will brainwash you. My advice if you are part of ntcc - get out as fast as you can and never look back!!!
Ange said:
I gotta say: It would be a blast to have a full-scale Xer conference! Good times with God's children unshackled from manmade doctrine. Can't beat that.
Anon said:
That's an awesome idea. I would really enjoy an Xer conference. I've thought about that before but didnt' know how to bring it up...Even thought of a name! NTCC RECOVERY
Anonymous said...
That's an awesome idea. I would really enjoy an Xer conference.
Chief said...
I think it would be an awesome idea also. I get to take up the offering. I'm trying to be like RWD. I need a few more guns. LOL.
He's the big, big Chief, life's good indeed.
Anonymous said...
Let’s see…no money, probably no family (because they make you alienate yourself) no job, no skills, (because you haven’t worked) no education, throw in a couple of children and wham bam they have you trapped…And that’s exactly where they want to keep you!! I absolutely despise the ntcc. I can’t stand the way they treat women.
Chief said...
And there you have it. Doesn't sound like the woman mentioned in Proverbs 31 to me but what do I know? I'm not a prophet like RWD the con artist so my interpretation of the scripture might be a little off. Sounded to me like the married woman mention in Proverbs 31 had a job away from home that made money but what do I know.
Proverbs 31:16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard.
Proverbs 31:24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant.
What a sinner that women must have been. Buying fields? Are you kidding me? Selling and delivering things to merchants? Are you kidding me? Delivering sounds kind of like "leaving the house" sort of like a real job. The Bible must be wrong on that one, do you think? Or just maybe the NTCC's been wrong all along. What husband in the NTCC would agree to their wife buying a field which the last time I checked is "land/property".
Whatever. Y'all NTCCers can ignore the scriptures and be blind dummies if you want to but I'm not the one. Women in the NTCC are little more than personal slaves and it is what it is. R.W. Davis and Kekel are a couple of control freak, con artist, money hungry, using, narcissistic, religious pharisee money monger real estate tycoons and that's exactly what they are. NO MORE, NO LESS.
There; that's my two posts a month. I'm in AA i.e. PA. Posters anonymous.
Chief
Proverbs teaches us the virtuous woman works outside the home. If you are a woman and not working...well, you get the idea. Glad my honey is virtuous. Plus, the extra income has been an inarguable blessing from God.
Also note, this woman still has kids at home.
Plus, the organization encouraged and approved my wife working outside the home both times we were in Korea. Starting in 1997.
Plus, the Proverbs 31 woman deals in real estate. So all this aquizition of property for the cult should have been done by the women...Unless the wives aren't virtuous.
Oh, and if you are sad you can drink booze. Real boose, not NyQuil.
That's all for now, and in His service,
Gregory
Proverbs 31:6. Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
I looked up this particular word "strong drink". Definition: strong drink, intoxicating liquor, whether wine or intoxicating drink like wine, made from barley, or distilled from honey or dates.
I also looked up this particular word "wine". Definition: so called from bubbling up and fermenting.
Sounds like something that intoxicates to me. Here, I got a good idea. Throw out the complete book of Proverbs and the NTCC won't have to explain away such scriptures that clearly exist. Oh I almost forgot. The NTCC leadership doesn't have to explain away anything to the blind brainwashed who refuse to acknowledge and consider such scriptures. Like I always say; WHATEVER! The brainwashed won't even consider all this.
I'm with Gregory. My wife has a job, PERIOD and I'm not going to hell because of it and neither is she. Keepers at home means to be a "good house keeper". If you don't want to remain blind just look it up. I did. It means to keep your house clean and tidy, "keepers at home". It doesn't mean that a woman can't have a job and Proverbs 31 proves it, unless you desire to continue to be brainwashed, ignorant and blind. Throw Proverbs 31 in the trash while you are at it.
Chief
Gregory said...
Plus, the extra income has been an inarguable blessing from God.
Chief said...
Let the NTCC leadership double standard dirt bags tell it, the extra income comes from the "devil". Double Standard Davis would maintain that all his riches and excessive collectable items surely came from the Lord.
So when a bunch of struggling ministers take up an offering from a bunch of mostly broke church members and they give old Grumpy Double Standard Davis a gun or a rolex, that's clearly a gift from the Lord, but when a virtuous woman earns an honest wage, that must have come from the devil? What a sick twisted conniving mentality!
Chief
Chief,
What makes the blessings inarguable is we now have our family set up in accordance with God's Word, so God is able to finally bless us in all areas...not just some areas.
NTCC's policies severely limit/restrict what God is able to do for a person.
At exit these restrictions are no longer in place (lifted). This is why we consistently read (and hear about, and experience) so many good reports.
In His Service,
Gregory
Greg, I have it better by far than I ever have since I left the NTCC. There is no comparison. I could get into specifics but I really don't like putting out too much of my business on the internet. All I'm going to say is that I got it good, real good!
My wife has it good also and my son is thriving. Dude, life just doesn't get much better and all as a direct result of me sticking up to them crooked NTCC leaders and ultimately leaving the NTCC. The NTCC SUCKS royally. Had I not stuck up to Mr. Abusive Mayers, things would have never turned out like they have for me. For the last few years, my life has been like a miracle story and it just doesn't seem to stop. I'm going to enjoy it while I can because I know it can't go on forever.
Later.
Click the link.
That's what I've been saying for years now. "keepers at home" means to be a good house keeper, NO MORE NO LESS. The NTCC is full of you know what.
R.w. Davis is a false prophet male chauvinist pig.
I clicked the link. Nice. Thanks. This helps.
Jeff,
I am having the same type of life now. But, in my case, I didn't have to stand up to anyone to get it. The Cult did it for me.
When I started having normal concerns about legitimate things, I was shunned, vilified, libeled, and slandered.
Not only did the Cult turn our Cult friends against us, they tried to get Deb to divorce me, and turn her family against me.
No problem, it is what it is; they are what they are, a leopard can’t change its spots, and nothing they do effects my life.
In His Service,
Gregory
Chief said...
Gregory said...
and nothing they do effects my life.
Chief said...
I'm not saying this to be confrontational but that's an optimistic approach. I don't necessarily share such optimism. The NTCC did irreparable damage to my life and the lives of my family members due to their false doctrines that we so ignorantly followed. My wife for example, could have earned hundreds of thousands of dollars working during the time that she followed a bunch of false prophets claiming that "keepers at home" meant that women can't (from a spiritual standpoint) lawfully have a job. I can't ever get that time or money back and we lost ground as a result.
I understand that you keep moving forward but the damage has been done and I can't stand the NTCC and of course I know you can't either.
Agreed Jeff,
They have damaged my life in ways I can't even begin to realize yet. If not for the Cult I would have 30 years in the military by now, or already be retired. Would possibly still be married to my first wife, etc.
We can't make up for what has been lost, but at least we have a new starting point to now do right by God, and our family.
What I should have wrote was nothing they do now can effect my life now. I wasn't addressing any past damage, or residual effects.
Gregory
Children can't get their childhoods back, (like Grant never lost) people can't get wages back, women can't get back the lost time due to trashed and wasted career opportunities. Irreparable damage to what was previously healthy family relationships won't be restored in most cases. The NTCC has done irreversible damage in so many areas to the lives of so many people that is outright sickening and disgusting.
I have nothing but complete and utter disdain for the NTCC leadership and the majority of it's pastors and why? Because they know what I write is true but yet they still never attempt to restore that which was taken by deceit and yet they live high on the hog off the dollars we wasted. The NTCC leadership is nothing but a bunch of leaches that suck off of everyone else but give little or nothing in return other than hardship, sorrow and pain. The blind and ignorant still canT see this as their lives continue to get wasted day after day and year after year.
Sure, I won't be wasting anymore time and money in dedication to the NTCCs greedy ambitions but that in itself doesn't give back what's already been lost or make right the wrongs that have been committed in the name of religion.
Gregory said...
What I should have wrote was nothing they do now can effect my life now. I wasn't addressing any past damage, or residual effects.
Chief said...
I understand Greg and I appreciate your response. In my particular case, despite the lost time and money, things have worked out inexplicably well for me because of my move from Atlanta to Columbus. This move was the direct result of the actions surrounding one seriously abusive and misguided NTCC minister. If I were a little bit more superstitious than I am, I could conclude that God blessed me and my family as a direct result of us standing up to a group of religious tyrants.
I'm confident that it has to end one day but on occasion after occasion, everything seems to continue to work out to my benefit. Almost like the story of Joseph and his transformation from captivity to wealth, power and stability. I couldn't have scripted a story which could possibly have portrayed so many miraculous outcomes as the ones surrounding my life since I left the NTCC. The NTCC false prophet pastors predicted curses but the clear result is prosperity and blessings on those who leave their sorry control monger narcissist ridden organization.
Jeff,
As we have all observed...Post exit, Karma works in the exers favor.
The option of retirement helps. 6 more years for me. But, I will stay in a long as I am allowed...More time more money equates to more blessed (or God).
Gregory
Correction...of God (or from God).
Finally, some dirt against us...And I did it myself.
Senior Pastor Kekel wrote..."Further, since I wasn't a bible school student during that time, I was not UNDER those rules."
The only problem with this is there is also a rule (well known, and know by Senior Pastor Kekel) that if you are in Graham and have a minister’s license, you have to abide by the Bible College rules (except for Senior Pastor Davis, since he makes the rules).
Since Senior Pastor Kekel has lived in Graham for the last 28 years, and has held a Ministers license during this time, he is to follow all Bible College policy.
To further illustrate/prove this point…If you live in Graham, and are already a minister, and want to invite a board member over to your house, you have to get permission. If you are a board member, and want to invite a minister over to your house, you have to get permission.
Gregory
If all of you believe you are /were called by
God to preach the Gospel of Christ then what
doctrine were you preaching and how do you
so radically change what you believe and preach after many years? Were you Gods servants or
mans servants ? Were you sent by God like
saint Paul or by the will of man ? Gal 1:11
When we followed the doctrines and rules of man and of the NTCC we were simply deceived. You can think you are serving the Lord and be deceived at the same time. The NTCC teaches bondage and R.W. Davis is a deceptive false prophet teaching may false doctrines and many are being misguided. Davis and Kekel are greedy and they use people and whether or not you "think" you're called doesn't change any of that.
Maybe called but definitely deceived.
Luke 21:8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
2 Tim 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
Virtually every priest or preacher I ever met thought he or she was called. At least that's what they would claim. Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses, Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostal, Seventh Day Adventists, and NTCCers. You name it, they would claim they were called. Chief proved that the NTCC has misinterpreted the keepers at home scripture, so what else have they got wrong? I can think of a whole bunch.
You can't believe a thing Davis or Kekel says. The only think you can certainly believe is that they will find many ways to spend your money. Big RVs, large houses, rental properties, guns, knives, fancy cars, real nice cuckoo clocks, nice suits and shoes, overly expensive schools for Grant Kekel, plenty of recreational activities for Grant and Mike Kekel, over the top guitar collections, the nicest clothing and furniture for Tanya Kekel, exotic plants and trees to landscape their property. Did I miss anything?
Yes you did. Rolex watches. They spent your money on things you wouldn't even buy. Just give your money as unto the Lord you dummy and don't give a second thought to what happens to it. Stupid is as stupid does. Easy come easy go. A fool and his money are soon parted. Davis isn't a fool but the people who follow him are.
Deu 16:19
"neither take a gift: for a gift doth blind the eyes of the wise, and pervert the words of the righteous."
R.W. Davis's ways are plenty perverted. He has no problem taking gifts from every and anyone. Davis wasn't interested in that scripture.
Now,now, brethren! You know it's right for the "Men of God" to have nice things, at our expense of course! After all they've earned them by being "faithful" to the work of the Lord. Remember, "Little Mikey" said the reason we weren't blessed like him is because we didn't apply "Pastor Davis'" teachings like he did. What an IDIOT! While he was sitting up there in Graham WA.,sucken up all the blessings, we were out there spending our last dime trying to make it happen. M C Kekel is a blow hard, big mouth, punk.
We're all definitely more blessed since we came out of that Garbage organization.
In 2009 a comment was posted on this Blog which included the following quote:
"...Rev. Kekel was able to become wealthy (compared to ALL non-ruling family NTCC ministers) enough only 2 years after marrying Tanya, to move to Graham WA from St. Louis MO on his own dime, build a new house in Graham (his first and last house, as it’s been Mansions ever since), completely furnish it (including window treatments), have a car, not have to work a secular job in Graham, etc. just by regularly buying savings bonds for those 2 years (not explained yet by an NTCC ruling family)..."
Gregory
Let me put it in plain English. Mike Kekel was able to move to Graham, buy a house, drive nice cars and later have mansions because we were all suckers. It would be easy to apply RDUBs teachings if I had a never ending supply of money rolling in and a guaranteed source that was never depleted because every time someone left Graham they brought someone back or brought more up there for yet another 4 years of more.
Wouldn't be too hard to get rich under those circumstances and that's exactly what Kekel did.
Kekel married into royalty, just like if someone marries Obama's daughter they will have it made. He went from rags to riches by saying "I do". From that point on Kekel became the heir of ntcc which will eventually pass on to Grant. The whole thing has nothing to do with being saved or living for God. Kekel is no more saved than a frozen package of broccoli stems. There is no evidence of salvation in his life. There is no fruit of the Spirit in his life. In fact the way he treats people is directly opposite of how people that are Christ like would treat each other.
Davis has surrounded himself with yes men and chosen a real winner to follow in his footsteps. Kekel is the most unqualified superficial poser of all the board members. He has the least amount of experience doing anything that seminary students are taught to do. Soul winning? Missionaries? Servicemen's Home Directors? Civilian Church Pastors? What was on Kekel's resume that qualified him to be in the positions he has been in? The one ingredient that seems to carry the most weight in the ntcc is nepotism, and along with family privilege comes family royalty and a reservoir of our tithe dollars to support the lustful and greedy habits of the elite snobs that call themselves apostles.
DnA
Now, now DnA! "We know" that kekel built his mansions with his personal money that he earned from his savings bonds interest. If you don't believe that just ask Rev. Ashmore. He loves to tell people that not one dollar of organizational money was used to build Kekel's mansion. It's truly amazing that they feel the need to say things like this as if they need to justify they're LAVISH lifestyles...or could it be they have a very guilty conscience? Hum!
THEY ARE SUCH LYING FOOLS.
He loves to tell people that not one dollar of organizational money was used to build Kekel's mansion.
Chief said...
That is just semantics. Not one dollar belonging to the federal government was used to buy my gun collection. All the money came from my personnel bank accounts. Guess where a good portion of the money came from that funded my bank accounts? The federal government. The last time I checked they paid my salary for years and or my federal retirement check. Guess where the money to purchase Mike Kekel's bonds came from? Funds which were generated by the New Testament Christian Church Organization.
It's all semantics. If it were not for the NTCC and the woman Mike Kekel married, Mike Kekel would be an average blue collar worker like the rest of us earning a days living. However currently, he is a leech living off a bunch of religious suckers.
If people don't see that, they can just keep funneling their money into the big NTCC cesspool and Mike Kekel will get richer and they can continue being dummies. The proof is in on the cover of this very thread. Those are Mike Kekel's written words verbatim. Later suckers.
Kekel is a leech. Davis is a leech. All of them worthless bloodsucking leeches.
As a former member in Graham, I remember Kekel trying to justify his new cars and other such luxuries by saying, he invested in the stock market. That is what he said over the pulpit. I remember this very distinctly, and then it left me wondering, why does he need to explain his lifestyle to us? Probably because he knew it was a problem topic amoung his congregants. I remember being told, what is wrong with the man of God having nice things? Yea, ok, what gullable fools we where.
Anon said, " what gullable fools we where."
You can say that again!!!!
I remember being told, what is wrong with the man of God having nice things?
Chief said...
First thing wrong with that statement, Kekel is no "man of God". Second thing is that there is nothing wrong with Kekel having nice things. He just won't be getting them at my expense. If he is getting them at your expense, you are simply a sucker.
I buy my own kids, "nice things". My money won't be buying any of the Kekel's nice things or anything for that matter. His wife and kid already have too many nice things that came at the expense of everyone else.
R.W.Davis, J.H.Olson, J.R. Ashmore, J.L. Johnson, P.A. Kinson, M.C. Kekel, and the rest of the New Testament Christian Churches of America,Inc. Leadership are nothing more than a bunch of Lying, covetous, phony, Pharisaical, impostors of true Christianity. They have trampled under their feet the lives hundreds of men and women who loved the Lord and trusted them to be the real deal only to find out they were duped by the chief dupester himself R.W. Davis. Oh, How I would like to be there when He stands before the righteous Judge of all, Jesus Christ our Lord, and gives an account for all the damage he has caused. They have harmed the Kingdom of God, not helped it. All for the "mighty dollar"! How shall they escape the damnation of hell?
I don't know but they sure are going to live a good life while on this earth. That's more than most of us can say. The worst part is, we'll probably be right there in hell with them. Who is to say who can escape or who is to say who will make it into heaven? Straight is the gate the Bible says.
"I remember Kekel trying to justify his new cars and other such luxuries by saying, he invested in the stock market."
No doubt that was just like the sports issue--he ignored RW's "policy" and did his own thing. RW blasted us in conference for being interested in the stock market, but of course we know that his pronouncements only apply to the "little people." The elites do what they will and laugh at the suckers who heed and obey their empty commands.
It was commonly preached throughout the NTCC that it was a sin to invest in the stock market because investing in the stock market was a gamble and gambling was a sin. Big fat hypocrites no matter how you look at it. Why would you give your money to known hypocrites? I don't understand it. We know that Kekel and Davis are both big time hypocrites. Not just occasional hypocrites. The fact is they are outright sinners.
Here is a interesting side note on the topic of women and what they endure in the NTCC, I feel that in a way the transformation that I as a woman needed to endure to fit into the mold of a NTCC woman helped my marriage to fail. I know this because why? I had to change the way I dressed, the way I wore my hair, my job situation, my friends, my lifestyle to the point that I was a just a boring woman that my husband found less than attractive with no ambition to speak of, when you look like a NTCC woman, how can you possibly feel ambitious? As well, you are treated differently because you look different, women in the NTCC really are doomed. If your marriage can survive while in the NTCC, your husband must be just living a lie or just plain stupid. Or they really do love you. Sorry, I vent here because I am still dealing with this manifestation of what the NTCC has done in my life.
The good news is you can get your life back on the right track. As long as you are in the NTCC your life is on the wrong track heading in the wrong direction. We all report that our lives got better after we left the NTCC. Vent all you want. It helps sometimes.
Kekel making his money in the stock market is about as likely as you winning the next Powerball lottery. There are very few daytraders that are millionaires and even if you're someone like Warren Buffett, you have to build the business like Berkshire Hathaway to be able to buy undervalued business and improve them, having basically a holding company with publically traded stock. Then people like Carlos Slim Helu and others have built conglomerates. There are those like Ken Fisher or Peter Lynch that are billionaires/millionaires but that's because they are fund managers and make a percentage for managing portfolios and have gotten results. I highly doubt MCK had access to anything more than stock tips in a Wall Street Journal at the time and definitely not know about sophisticated investments like options.
Given what Vic has shared in the past about MCK's job back then, I doubt that he could save enough to put 20% down on an investment property or buy enough bonds to signicantly live off the investment of high interest government bonds in the 70's / 80's. His house in Washington (which is now Olson's small rental house next to his current large home) was a wedding gift from RWD and was built by the then building crew for the new couple.
Kekel making his money in the stock market is about as likely as you winning the next Powerball lottery.
Chief said...
I'd have to respectfully disagree. I do my own stock trading on TD AMERITRADE and it's not rocket science. I've made considerable profits to the degree of 50% or more in a little as 2-3 weeks. It's harder now then it was during the TECH and Dot.Com boom. Stocks were going through the roof during those times and it didn't take a genius to figure it out. Companies like Microsoft, Apple, Sandisk and Intel were sure winners. I'm not so certain Kekel couldn't figure that out especially if he had a decent stock broker and the money to invest (which he certainly had access to).
Walmart would have made you stinkin rich. Northwest Airlines. I figured out one time that like $1000 dollars in walmart stocks purchased in 1985 would have made you millions especially with the various splits that have occurred since. We won't even talk about Microsoft. It is possible and not nearly far fetched. In fact I read an article saying that the stock market has made more millionaires than any other vehicle in the United States. Can you imagine how many people picked Microsoft right or Apple or Walmart or one of the oil companies or one of the Airlines or a solar company or a surgical robotics company like Intuitive Surgical "ISRG". I picked that one right and it's currently selling at over $500 a share.
I don't know if Kekel made his money off stocks or he didn't but no matter what the case, he came into the NTCC basically broke and now he has money and it's directly or indirectly the result of money the NTCC took in and it's just that simple. Broke struggling tithe payers have made the Kekels rich and that ain't what Christianity is all about. You can't find any mention of such an occurrence in the entire New Testament and I challenge anyone to prove otherwise.
You have a way better chance at making money on the stock market than you do with powerball and there is no comparison. That actually wasn't a good comparison at all. You have a good chance with the stock market and you have virtually no chance with powerball. Maybe a slightly better comparison would have been in order or more effective.
Not sure if Kekel had success in the stock market or not, but I am sure that a very significant portion of the tithe money that we all paid has gone into his deep pockets. While it is possible that Kekel might be telling the truth, I highly doubt it because it goes against his nature. He might have had some success, but the money he invested came from our tithe and offerings.
These elitists deal in half truths to justify themselves in the eyes of others. The stock market story is something that was concocted to divert questioning minds and hearts from what really took place. Maybe he made a few thousand bucks, who knows? But the point of it all was to create a lie that would keep inquiring minds from realizing that they were the suckers that got him rich.
The ntcc does this on so many levels. Souls are dying and going to hell and you are busy working on an investment portfolio? It only applies if you are a poor and struggling member. You will never get ahead in the ntcc unless you climb over the backs of your suffering brethren. Take up another offering. Brow beat your congregation until they open their wallets and give till they have nothing. This is your ntcc. It is a shrewd business that invests it's assets in you. That's right, you are nothing but an investment. The initial investment is extremely minimal compared to the return they will get. They buy a few church cards and feed you a "home cooked" platter of Jalapeno Chicken. In return they get more than 10% of your income for however many years you choose to make them rich. They also get more than 10% from all the ones you snag into their cult.
The local pastor is the biggest sucker of all because he sends all of that money to Graham where the multimillionaire real estate tycoons live in unbelievable luxury with every material thing the heart can desire, all the while they are making rules that keep you broke and afraid to spend any money on yourself or your family.
Truer words have never been written.
Yes, I lived with MK when he graduated and he was broke like the rest of us. He had an OK job for St. Louis, but he didn't even own a car. The skids were definitely greased well for him.
Chief said:
"Broke struggling tithe payers have made the Kekels rich and that ain't what Christianity is all about."
DnA said:
I would have to say that Kekel received a greater return on his inherited shares of ntcc sucker stock than he ever did on Wall Street. If you look at it, he invested very little in the ntcc, but by playing footsies with the flounder, I mean founder's daughter, he has worked his way to the top of the ntcc food chain. He has moved from one mansion to another, to another and drives any car his heart desires.
He couldn't have bought enough Walmart stock in 1985 to give him the power that he now holds over a great number of people. He also has anything he want's tax free without having to be accountable to anyone. Rwd has created a monster to take over where he left off. The weak minded narcissistic board members will all submit to MK, following Olson's lead when RWD is gone. MK and TK will no doubt make some changes to increase their power base and financial empire.
Kekel hit the jackpot when he hooked up with Tanya. If you compare his initial investment in the ntcc with his return, it would be an understatement to say he made out pretty good. He hasn't invested any sweat equity or endured any hardships as a missionary or had to live in squalor as many others before him. If the mind numbed suckers that freely give their money to him would wake up and see that their investments have gotten them nowhere, they might realize how poorly they have invested their own money and switch retirement plans.
DnA
I would have to say that Kekel received a greater return on his inherited shares of ntcc sucker stock than he ever did on Wall Street.
Chief said...
I'd have to agree. Whether or not he made money on the stock exchange would just be a guess. We know he made money on NTCC sucker stock and plenty of it.
We shouldn't be worrying about Romney's tax returns, we need to tell Kekel to reveal his and exactly how he made his money.
Chief -
You have a TD Ameritrade which gives you access to research tools that alot of people didn't have in the 70s-80s unless you were part of a brokerage. Even when you go off a stock tip on WSJ or Jim Cramer, people flood into buy then a week later people sell to make their profit. Even if you have $1M in that account, it isn't "real money" because it could be gone in a week's time. You don't realize the profit until you sell and then pay your capital gains tax. Just look at Facebook since its IPO and everyone hopping on that bandwagon. No doubt people can pick and chose to hold onto valuable companies, but we found out in 2001 and 2008 how many people's 401K and retirement accounts can be affected in a moment of time. Even index mutual funds were hit hard during the past 10 years. That's why you need to not solely rely on 1 investment and that's why I seriously doubt Kekel made his money with stocks.
Could be, who knows. What I do know is that Kekel was basically broke like everyone else prior to his involvement with Tanya. If he did invest money in stocks, the money came from NTCC tithe payers. If he didn't, his money still came from NTCC tithe payers and that money has got him very large houses and very nice cars, approx $20,000 a year to put Grant through high school and on and on. And NTCC suckers will keep lining his pockets. It just won't be me.
Chief
Chief
You people obviously left the church for your own reasons, so why are you worried about what goes on their still?
You left to get away, yet you're still so involved.
Makes no sense at all.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
You people obviously left the church for your own reasons, so why are you worried about what goes on their still?
You left to get away, yet you're still so involved.
Kat Says:
Anon - its to help others to see the ignoramus nonsense that goes on in this place . . . in hopes to save others from falling for this pit of infectious disease. My life, my children's life were forever changed and we can't have any of it back. I want to stop others from going down the same path if I can!
"You people obviously left the church for your own reasons, so why are you worried about what goes on their still?
You left to get away, yet you're still so involved.
Makes no sense at all".
Hey ANYON: My wife suffered a miscarriage because of this church. These are NORMAL things you do not forget as a parent.
My son or daughter would have been 11 years old TODAY. But don't feel sorry for me, God bless my loss with 3 more kids, and I will be reunited with my beloved child in heaven. Praise the Lord (Or, in NTCC, Pass the Loot!)
Bro Johnson
Anon wrote...
so why are you worried about what goes on their still?
Chief wrote...
I am not worried about it. Suckers will be suckers. I just like giving them NTCC con artists a dose of their own medicine. They have their pulpit and I have mine. I don't claim to be "HOLY". I'm not fake. I'm not trying to live up to anyone's standards. If I want to talk and write about the double standard NTCC hypocrites I'll sleep real well tonight with no guilty conscience whatsoever. I'm not like Davis, Kekel, Ashmore and Kinson. I don't claim to be someone I'm not.
The NTCC leadership wants to talk bad about every denomination they can possibly slander and I like talking about them. Don't judge me judge them. Next time they start talking about the Catholics, JW's or the Seventh Day Ad's, why don't you ask them the same question? Why are you worried about them? There you go. Try that one on for size and see where that gets ya. Haha. LOL. That will work for sure.
Chief
to the anonymous ntcc'er
no one is worried about what goes on there. if these sites and blogs weren't up, no one would ever learn the truth and be warned of the cult NTCC.
Your logic is off. If there was a rapist in your neighborhood, you'd warn your kids. With your logic, you wouldn't say anything since you aren't "concerned" about a rapist.
Just because their sins are finding them out is not our fault, the Bible says that.
Besides, you shouldn't be reading these blogs if you are in NTCC. You need to report to Kekel that you read the blogs on the internet and repent. Then he'll have you do a book report ! LOL !
Great points. It's amazing how people are so concerned about what kind of damage others might be shining a light on in the ntcc. I'm glad that we have someone like anonymous to tell us that we left to get away, "your still so involved".
Not really. They no longer get our money can you say that? Whose involved? Do you still give them your tithes and offerings or are you just a sympathizer and an enabler? If that's the case why are you spending your valuable time on this blog jacking everyone up?
Typical arrogant attitude of the ntcc. The pompous and proud lay down the law for all others, without applying it to themselves.
The org stole our lives, happiness, relationships and so on for years. Some still are floundering, looking for answers. Forgive our bitterness (well at least mine).
I'm not bitter. I just recognize those NTCC crooks for what they are. That doesn't make me bitter, just real. Kekel and Olson are a couple dirt bags and conniving crooks. Con Artists. Recognizing that certainly doesn't make be bitter.
I know I for one am bitter to the core! Lost the faith and not sure if I'll ever find it again. I liked NTCC for one reason. They seemed to have the right answer and were certain of it. I'm attracted to people who are fierce and loyal to their belief system. I wasn't living the best of lives so I dove in only to get beat down worse than my prior situation. Now I have to hear how Davis, Kekel, and whom ever else has been getting away with Sexual misconduct. It's too much. These people need to go through the trials of Job to remotely call this even.
Do you smell that? Is something burning? Oh, my bad, it's just Davis' Soul!
I just read this again. Amazing. Kekel actually wrote that statement that I quoted / copy and pasted verbatim. Only a complete dummy could ignore and brush off what Kekel wrote. It would make any "SENSIBLE" person question every rule that the NTCC ever came up with or question Kekel's ability to be a leader in any capacity within the NTCC. Either Kekel is bogus and a fraud or RWD was, as well as the rest of the board. No other logical sensible explanation. So which is it? Were you duped by RWD or are you still being duped by Kekel now that RWD is gone? I know the answer. BOTH!!!! Haha.
Got one for you Mikey.
Remember the false doctrine that wives and children had to be in complete and total submission to husband and the pastor?
You know, the one that the husband will be completely accountable for each and every unrepented sin committed by the wife and children.
The one that if there is not COMPLETE and total submission to the husband and pastor, the husband will be cast into the Lake of Fire because he "did not have his house in order".
The very false doctrine that led to me being domestically abused by the third month of marriage. The same one that excused abhorant domestic and child abuse in other families.
Yep that one Mikey.
I lived in the dorm with Mike and slept in the same room. He's no spiritual giant, just another hack who married the boss' daughter. He pretended all along to be down with RW's fanatical crap, but we see that all along he was just playing everyone. It's just a game with him; he loves to have the preeminence.
Exactly right Vic. He was just rolling with the punches. He was obviously never committed to all that crap. I really am amazed Vic that people can't see through him now. Too much info out there. He's been exposed but it's amazing how blinded folks can remain.
What I want to know is, who is Freebird, and I am so glad you're free.
I'm curious if those were notes from a class Kekel taught or something he had said.
BTW, what's been going on guys!? Still glad I left NTCC and still loving the Lord. No, I may not look the same, but looks are not everything. God does look upon the heart and some people who "look" the way it's taught to look, have ugly, ugly hearts.
I remember when I used to be so scared to come to this blog, because they preached over the pulpit that if we come here, we'll die and go to hell.
I knew they read it, so what are they trying to keep us from.
It was the truth. The light.
Jesus is The Truth and The Light.
But this gave us/me a voice.
It was clear as day...when we were in England, and begging to come home, but Rev Olson asked us, "What about the church" and we said. "What about us" and that was a moment I knew we would leave NTCC.
IT SOLIDIFIED IT the moment Rev Kekel offered my then husband a lay pastor position.
Reverend Kekel didn't ask if we wanted to knock on a single door ever again. They didn't care about us.
It was all about saving face. Getting us back so that others would not leave.
The more that leave, the more will get comfortable with leaving.
When "they" see us happy and serving Jesus, maybe with a little red lipstick on, do they condemn, or do they see that there may be a better way. To LOVE. To love one another and love themselves more than the money they love. To love to do good. To really connect with God, not just go through the motions.
I do pray for forgiveness for speaking something that is not necessarily positive against those who claim to be men of God.
We are supposed to think on good things, honest, true, just things, if there be any praise things...when is a Christian justified to speak the truth against so called men-of-God.
I did learn a lot of the Bible there, but what went wrong. Where did they, how did they, when did they MISS THE MARK?
Who allowed it to go in the wrong direction?
What are they doing now? Have they confessed? Have they repented?
Nay, but sorry excuses for an apology.
REPENT NTCC
Pray for forgiveness for speaking the truth? Not so fast. I don't find Jesus praying for forgiveness in the gospels when he called the Scribes and religious people of his day a bunch of hypocritical vipers.
The NTCC is no different. A bunch of hucksters. I won't apologize for that one nor do I need forgiveness for speaking the truth. Keel is a religious con man crook huckster and so was his crooked daddy in law. And so is Olson. Olson is a low down menace to society wolf in sheep's clothing. Don't condemn yourself for stating the facts. Jesus stated plenty of facts about religious low down hypocrites as is chronicled in the gospels.
They missed the mark on day 1. Davis was a con artists from the start. Kekel was a faker from the get go. Sure there was good hearted people in THE NTCC and I'm sure there still is but they are heading for the ditch. Blind following the blind. Both heading towards the same ditch. What did Jesus say? Beware of false prophets. Blind leading the blind. The NTCC is no more than a big old money pit scam game.
Kekel is indeed a con artist but he is sure going to die a rich one on the backs of a bunch of suckers. The problem is the suckers are heading for the same ditch except Kekel has their money and they don't. I'd rather die a rich religious fake then a poor one. Kekel sure is a hypocrite but he will at least die a hypocrite in style. NTCC people need to wake up.
Chief, may I email you my story? I had shared it with Don and Ange, but wanted to share it here too if that's okay.
It was from one of RWD's pet pastors at the time, not Mikey. Also RWD was front and center on stage as the pastor taught that non Biblical drivel. The pastor also taught at the "Bible College".
Yep, NTCC is not a good organization that went wrong, it is a corrupt organization, founded by a narcisist for personal gain. It only exploited good people. Their very founding documents disclose it was always about Davis and only for Davis. Speaking of lipstcik, Kekel is just lipstick on a pig now that Davis is gone.
Eric G.
awhile back there was a comment from a concerned mom whose daughter and family were at the Spokane church. I wonder what happened because they just replaced the pastors there.
Wow...this church has done a lotta damage! Im not even gonna post my story...but I'm glad I'm done with it. There were some beautiful experiences but as most understand now that could not find room in their souls to understand then...there was a major issue with the outlook of the leaders which I still respect and always will...yet my heart pities the families and regular men. I've lost my best friends to this church...my ex-wife...and even years of my children's lives until I fought for them for years thru the courts. My prayer is that each of us can let this chapter of our lives be a learning lesson...and just focus on findn ourselves again. There is freedom in emptying that old cup...and being filled with the truth abt self.
Good for you Dion. Its nice to know people are still waking up and reclaiming their lives. There is a lot of living to do still post NTCC.
Eric
Not a problem Diana. Just post it here and I'll add it to the front page. Try to copy and paste the text here. I'm assuming it will fit. If not, I'll get you an email address
Oh also; I'll title your story whatever you'd like.
Thanks Chief,
My Short Story of Leaving NTCC
My short story
I was in NTCC from 2002-2011.
I was reached in Anchorage Alaska, went to Seminary in Graham, WA, and worked to build churches in Olympia, WA, Tillicum, WA, and Mildenhall, England.
England was where our eyes were opened to the truth of NTCC.
Even after a year of telling Rev. Olson we couldn't handle it in England anymore, the best he offered was, "We love you, God loves you, we are praying for you, and maybe, just maybe, you will have 100 people in service and someone might write a thousand dollar check."
Then you just press on, right?
But the fact remained, what he said never happened, they were never really concerned for us, and we were ready to leave. England, and NTCC.
Rev Olson and Pastor Davis, they had no one to replace us when our two years was about up. They even asked us to extend our visas another two years! After we were adamant about not extending, it was explained that they would've had someone there sooner, but they still had to replace them and the ones replacing them still had to be replaced! There was a problem because someone that was supposed to replace someone, had left NTCC.
Not sure if it was the Annis', but I think they wanted them to replace us.
Rev. Olson had asked, "What about the church?" And we responded, "What about us?"
Pastor Davis ended up saying they would close the church.
This was about one month before our visas were to expire and we were told to sell everything, including the car, and to make as much as we can to buy our plane tickets.
Later, Pastor Davis told us that the church in England was going downhill even before we got there.
Mike Kekel said he originally didn't even want us to go, and he even offered my husband a lay pastor position back in Graham. Mind you, this was after we said we were not coming back to Graham. He tried buying us with a position.
We began to read these blogs and realized many other good people were leaving and we saw people weren't afraid to question the leaders of this organization.
That's why they don't like these blogs.
We began to see very similar stories, how NTCC draws people in, and then takes advantage of them. We started looking back, to the beginning, and realized there were so many red flags that we ignored.
Sister Kekel wanted us back in Graham and I told her I decided to get a job. She said that many women in Graham work jobs.
I responded that I know that, but that they also preach against women working and they look down upon those women.
She said her husband has never preached against women working.
Really? Rev Kekel?
I knew at that moment she was lying.
I don't say the above in anger, bitterness, or jealousy...I say the above as a proclamation of the DOUBLE STANDARD and HYPOCRISY and GREEDINESS that exists and is allowed in that leadership and organization.
And there is so much more to say.
I'd love to hear from more people who have left and their story. Lots of young couples have left, but why? Where is the outcry. Why are they staying shut? Are they scared? Of what!? The truth!? Were you made to agree not to talk bad about them?
They say, "If you leave NTCC, you leave God."
A false doctrine.
NTCC truly is a cult.
Oh, to hear the stories of others, I'm sure they would be similar.
In love, Diana Molino (Bullington)
Not sure if anyone told you, but Rev. Davis is dead.... 4 years now.
I don't disagree with what you said, but maybe just don't completely shit talk the dead...
- Amy Weber
I know this is a bit old.
But I wanna share my story still.... if that's okay.
I grew up with two brothers.
My father was Peter Hoffman (Pete or PT) and my mom was Paula Hoffman.
My older brother was Stephen and my younger was Lance.
I was the middle, Amanda.
My life was fucked up in a whole other way than what I hear.
Like, I understand a lot of what is being said here, but it feels more directly involving the church and it's pastors and such.
For me, it was my home life and school life and even social life that was affected. (or is it effect?)
I remember being bullied and teased all the time as the "jesus freak."
I'd get boys both young and older teens flipping up my skirt and touching my body.
I was even invited to an all boys treehouse.. turns out I was only invited to show off my body... which made me feel dizzy with an overwhelming feeling of sickness and like bugs were crawling under my skin.
I remember praying to God a lot, but people told me that he only helps you if you're good.
I was 5 years old, what did I do that was so horrible that I deserved to have boys touch me and girls pull my hair and throw sharp rocks at me.
I told my mother everything except the sexual stuff. She wouldn't have believed me.
And my father would have said I was asking for it or provoking it or get mad at me for no reason of my doing.
-Amy Weber
He'd belt me really hard for anything.
Like, he had this Lincoln car next to the driveway, with all these bushes and trees close enough to touch it if a breeze came by it'd scratch his car.
And everytime he'd yell at us and spank us and ground us and take our dinner away until he fell asleep and mom came to get us to eat.
He'd lose his keys and blame us, lose his wallet and blame us.
He also raped my mom. But, in NTCC marriage rape is allowed.
Did things to me too.
He'd hold me down and shove his tongue in my mouth.
I remember going to Rev Kenson about the abuse at home and everything.
We were trying "counseling."
Can you guess what he did?
Instead of guiding my father in how to be a better father and husband, he told my father what I said!
OF COURSE my father denied the allegations and my mom did too, both out of fear and thinking to herself "it's not that bad." She had to tell herself that because acknowledging the hell we lived that we couldn't escape was too much for her.
-Amy Weber
The pastors didn't help my father with his anger issues and bipolar shit.
The gave him excuses. That he's "the man of the house," and "we can't control how another parent governs their child."
Bullshit! They tell parents to spank their kids ALL THE TIME.
Yeeeeaaaahhhh, cause hitting me TOTALLY worked out! sarcasm
How would you like it if I slapped you in the face for having a different opinion than mine or disagreeing with me on a topic?
So stupid.
I bet you all your earning that you won't magically respect me for forcing MY WILL onto you, which isn't YOUR WILL.
- Amy Weber
That's another thing they'd shove down your throat.
"God gave us free will," oh really? Where's my free will when my father shreaded my fingernails of with a knife because I had a sleepover with my friends and they painted my nails with CLEAR blue tinted nailpolish?!
Where was MY free will when he spanked me for wearing pants because I didn't want boys to touch me anymore or for my whole class to see my undies?!
PE, at the end of every class, we had to do handstands, not doing it or even trying would get us sent into the office (another spanking!) So, in front of everyone, in my skirt or dress, I had to do a handstand.... and everyone would see my undies... now imagine that embaressment plus forgetting my undies one time.
You've no idea what that feels like knowing such an easy thing could be avoided if your parents just let you wear gym pants!
And I'd go to anyone in church who would listen to me to try and talk some sense into my parents.
But they all turned on me to tell my father which was even more beatings!
-Amy Weber
HE NEVER JUST TALKED TO US.
Like, I remember one time asking what an ouija board was and he blew up at me.
I'm a CHILD, it's your JOB as a PARENT to guide and teach me in life!
Speaking of, church was SOOOOOOOO important that I'd miss out on school projects I had to do over the weekends and such, because I was forced to go to church.
Every school year started out with me on top of things, until Sunday would come around and my father stayed at church until 8pm or later!
ON A SCHOOL NIGHT.
I had to be up at 5 something to catch the bus at 6am, my bedtime was like 7pm because I had horrible time getting to sleep, insomnia.
I needed at least 10 to 12 hours of sleep or I'd sleep through school (spanking!)
And, omfg, dude, Thursday was even worse.
Didn't even get to eat dinner yet, since dinner was at 6pm and service started at 7pm and lasted forever (for kids and going school, yes it's forever,).
- Amy Weber
There were times where he drove all the way home from Graham to Spanaway before he realized he forgot me at church.
I'd be asleep on the pew and it was like 9 or 10 before we left.
Cause my father also took his sweet time talking to his guy friends.
(Sorry, btw, none of this is in chronological order with my age, just as it's coming to me. My memory is bad because I spent so long trying to forget things, so it's all out of order.)
I got behind on so much schoolwork because I didn't have enough sleep because of church.
Then I'd get sick, and asthma plus anemia is a recipe for weeeekkksss of being sick.
That didn't help my cause any.
And asking my father with help for math (he was actually good at it, surpisingly,) he'd get mad and yell at me and call me names and make me cry.
"What are you stupid?!"
I didn't have proper schooling because I was so afraid to ask any authority figures in my life for help with things.
-Amy Weber
And the church still didn't encourage him to get one-on-one therapy!
Instead we needed "family therapy," but we DIDN'T.
Like, yes, but only because of my father and the way the church acted.
Like, my father would critize mom infront of us. So we learned to devalue her.
And he always spoke in half sentences and thoughts.
He made mom the sole cleaner of everything in the house.
He'd critize all her hard work.
Like dude, sure you went to work, but mom stayed home and took care of THREE kids by herself who were always making a mess! And we never listened to her because father never respected her.
- Amy Weber
-
Honestly, I can go on and on.
But I guess my point is that I'm traumatized.
I've such a deep rooted fear and hate towards relgious men, men with southern accents, men in general.
I can't walk down the road without carrying a knife and gun because I'm so terrified.
I still have a hard time talking to anyone too.
I never ask questions cause I've an irattional fear of being hit by everyone and yelled at.
I shake and my shrink my body at the same time.
I can't talk either, my voice just dies and my mouth clamps shut.
I'll hear my pulse in my ears and feel the beat in my chest like a sledge hammer.
I'm sorry if I'm all over the place.
But I guess my point again is that my father claimed to be Christian, but he abused his kids and raped his wife. And the church never did anything.
I'm stuck in a rut in my life because I have no education to speak of.
My highest grade was like 6th grade or 7th.
I'm 24 and have 4th grade math skills and other problems too.
I had to run away when I was 16/17 because I couldn't take the abuse anymore, the constant living in fear.
-Amy Weber
My whole life is ruined, my childhood is abuse, my teenage life is nothing but trying to find a father figure in men that would "rape" me (since I was a teen).
I remember one time my father said I could have sex with men up to 25 when I was 15.
15! WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK MAN. Then he says "but don't be a golddigger."
WHAT?! WHAT?! WHHYYYYY?! WTF!
My older brother is now a neo nazi and a druggie.
My little brother is a white knight, which means he pretends to be nice to girls and defends them but if they tur him down for sex or he isn't their type then he starts shit talking them.
And I'm a homeless slut, leeching off of my cousins allowance to let me live with him.
But I can't work, I have no friends, I'm too afraid to leave my house.
That stuff has stayed with me for so long.... how do I escape?
And please don't say "through God."
OH, fyi, my mom came out to me about my father owning child pornography.
Can't say I'm surprised.
-Amy Weber
Sorry.
I know I spammed like crazy, it wouldn't let me post it on one thing.
But also, I just needed to vent....
I'm so hurt by my father and NTCC church and "God."
-Amy Weber
Hi Amy, not sure we’ve ever met and not sure if that was directed at me or not, but I/we know Davis passed and yet will still share my story regardless. The truth is the truth. Sorry for all you went through but you are definitely not alone.
Wow, Amy, wow! Thanks for sharing. We don’t usually hear from those that were raised as kids in NTCC so you give us a different perspective, but one we knew was there. Like the PE in a skirt thing. Like seriously!? Come one! Let your daughter wear pants/shorts to PE. The boys didn’t have that issue of course, and Grant being allowed to play football and whatever else.
I’m sorry you were not valued as the precious soul and body you are. Your father was wrong to do those things to you. I pray you are able to find forgiveness...and I don’t mean forgiveness as in “let him do it again”...DON’T let him ever disrespect you ever again. Just coming on here shows how strong you are. It takes courage. Carry that courage with you as you go through life and VALUE yourself. You are worth so much more than to be raped.
Surround yourself with good people.
You ask how do you escape...
And then you say not to say “through God”...
Amy, the only way I have made it is through Jesus.
If it wasn’t for God and the scripture that says “even a root of bitterness defiles a man” I would still be bitter. Jesus came that we may have life. The religion your dad and NTCC showed you IS NOT GOD or God’s love. God’s love is different. A true man of God would not have treated you as such. Please know there are good men out there and THEY WILL ONLY value you IF YOU VALUE yourself. Value yourself Amy. When my now fiancée wanted to date me, I put limits, And he loves me even more for that. Put limits. If you are being raped you really need to get out of where you are.
Yes...it may feel good at first, the attention and the “love” or more so “desire” but look what it’s doing, right? In the long run, it makes us feel worse.
Please feel free to email me if you want to talk more. I’ll give you my number there.
db2012db@gmail.com
There are resources. If you are truly homeless, let’s find you a home. A good and safe one.
Suicide prevention and crisis line is of great value:
800-273-8255
Or text HOME to 741741
If you reach out, we can try to find out any other resources you need. Thanks again for sharing your story.
Very accurate indeed, I was a member for a while. It was very stressful, and felt weird with all the rules, and intimidation. It's sad this has ruined some folks view of God and the Church.
My daughters husband was a pastor at the Spokane church and then they moved them back to Graham. We haven't seen bbn or heard from our daughter in 2yrs. This cult has brainwashed her and her husband is molesting our granddaughter.
This is why indoctrination is so evil.
My mom used to get raped by my father and nobody did anything. We kids also got abused all the time and the church excused it.
Oof. Didn't realize I had already shared my story. It's been 2 years since then. Still a shit life.
And right? I grew up around Grant.
He got special privileges because he was the preachers son and a boy.
But god forbid a girl wants to join sports. 🙄😒
Although Rebekah Espinoza joined the military. And didn't get shit for it. Good for her, but still wow.
That church is so toxicly patriotic, it's ridiculous.
Conservatives are so slow to change and acceptance.
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