Thread #56 It's nice to be able to "freely" post here at all without being concerned about some NTCC creep turning us in to RWD. I could care less what RWD or anyone else in the NTCC thinks about me. NTCC pastors generally, are of very low character, (with some exceptions) so it disgusts me that I was ever interested in pleasing them in the first place. Well those days are over. Kinson and Kekel have been doing pretty much what they wanted to do all along with no real concern about retribution from the leadership and they are in the NTCC. How much less should I be concerned now that I am out? Of course everyone knows I'm not concerned but I figured that I would throw that out there just the same.
I have talked to exNTCC folks who are actually worried for their safety if they were to talk about the NTCC. As a result they sometimes post but anonymously. NTCC folks are worried about retribution from the leadership so as a result they also post anonymously. The NTCC has some exNTCC people so shell shocked that they are worried about some NTCC nut coming after them. I talked to Vic Johanson last night, (who I proudly proclaim to be my friend) and neither Vic or I could care less who knows that we speak against the NTCC. Unfortunately the NTCC does have a history of breeding nuts. Some stay with the NTCC and some leave so as a result both sides are paranoid. An NTCC preacher told me just yesterday that he has someone bring a gun to church just in case an exNTCC church member decides to show up and go postal or something. Both sides (the exNTCCer and the NTCCers) are running scared. So much for the peace of Christ? You have exNTCCers worried about an NTCCer coming after them and you have NTCCers worried about exNTCCers coming after them. How absurd. You couldn't pay me to become a part of the NTCC again. I just preach against the NTCC now.
Oh wait a minute, what I am doing is not preaching? Here is a definition that I found: to advocate or inculcate (religious or moral truth, right conduct, etc.) in speech or writing.
I inculcate the moral truth here in writing, so therefor I am preaching. Can I get an Amen? Ha, ha. LOL
Jeff
PS: NTCC preachers are running around with more guns than the LA PD. Don't even preach about faith in God you bunch of hypocrites. Your faith is in your gun but if you want to know the truth, I really don't blame you. If I didn't have a true relationship with God my faith would be in my gun also. I don't remember reading about Elijah running around with a weapon. God was his weapon. James, John or Paul didn't have one either. Not once they started following Jesus. Jesus didn't carry a weapon for that matter. These NTCC guys aren't as interested in being as much like Jesus as they say they are. That is why these NTCC preachers start tripping about money every time the funds stop coming in. They loose their faith and they start going crazy on their church members for more money. I've seen it happen time and time and time again. The NTCC is a big joke. Amen, preach Bro Jeff. Can I get an Amen.
151 comments:
Jeff,
With RWD saying things like he is getting threats from a blog, its no wonder you have preacher folk hiding weapons in the church. Then again when you have your friends and family being verbally assaulted week after week under the guise of preaching, some people want to react irrationally.
Alot of people out of NTCC post anonymously out of respect for their friends currently in the church. NTCC states that when people leave the church, you no longer have nothing in comman therefore you should not speak to each other. Sometimes comman sense kicks in over made up conclusions. My friends and I do not talk about church, and if they were to bring up something negative NTCC I would change the subject. Sometimes things get twisted around to "They are bashing us" when the NTCCER is the one who brought up the negative comment, or my favorite they ask why you left then accuse you of slander. If they want to know what I think, they can read it here.
Ns
Hello Everyone....
Gun Toting, In Church? Wow, Talk about being Paranoid.
Quite honestly though, I have thought about going to a Church Service or 2 while I'm up there just to see what kind of reaction that I will get. I can't get my Wife to go with me though. Just go in there Anonymously and have a seat and just see what happens.
Something else I've thought about, On a little more of a serious note, and that is if it were possible to gather all the EX-NTCCers together under one building (Quite a building, I know. There are alot more Ex-ers than there are current members)And it were possible that R'Dub would be forced to preach a message.....
I wonder what his sermon title would be?
Jeff -
Can you post your email address? I have something I want to send you.
Thanks,
Lynn
Jeff wrote..."An NTCC preacher told me just yesterday that he has someone bring a gun to church just in case an exNTCC church member decides to show up and go postal or something."
Yeah, and he probably regularly reminds the congregation of this, to keep the shock and awe fresh in their minds. To keep their warm and fuzzy going about how the devil fights the program of God, and this is another proof they are on the side of right.
I don't doubt preachers bring guns (or have someone bring one), but I am SURE it is not needed. Some NTCC preachers are all about generating drama...You know the drill, "Saints, the devil is really fighting blah, blah, so we have to soul win more...you just don't know blah, blah, so we have to read our bible more...but we are winning blah, blah, so we have to give more in the offerings...God told me blah, blah..."
How about this one, "There are even death threats blah, blah" Not a lie, since it was something the preacher heard on the news. See how this works? It's easy once you figure it out. What if someone called him, made it past Verna's intense call screening process, and then told Pastor Davis, "I wish you were dead" or "Why don't you just die" or "Why don't you just kill yourself, and do us all a favor, I'll even give you the gun" etc. Then the next service, next conference, Pastor Davis makes the announcement that people are threatening his life, making death threats. Do you see how this works? Why haven't you figured this out for yourself?
They will never get too specific, NTCC preachers are masters of the nebulous statement. e.g. Someone told me I was too nice; someone told me I was not rude enough, etc. It could have been his wife, some hard corps brother, or the neighbors cat; or in response to something totally unrelated to Pastoring; or something his Mom told him 20 years ago when he took her to the mall.
The NTCC Pastor's "someone told me..." is the equivalent of a child's "Not me" or "I don't know". Both are designed to create a certain (false) impression in the mind of the hearer.
Yet, the congregation will supply the knowing nod (not knowing what he is specifically talking about-). Try this though, ask him for specifics (who, what, where, when, why), and see were/what that gets you.
At least NTCC is winning...with smoke, mirrors, drama, and spin.
no longer an infidel In His Service,
pdq (who still morns for those in NTCC)
Jeff,
I must say that outside of competing for NCO of the Year here on good o'l ForT Jackson (Man it is hot here!!) I was quite shocked to hear about this disturbing trend.
When I did my Warrior tasks and Battle Drills, I HAD to carry a weapon against a make-believe enemy).
We train for war to keep the peace.
Guns and Roses in Church?? Surely you jest!! Are you kidding me??? Do NTCC preachers preach a war sermon to keep the peace?
Now, NTCC members reading this blog, ask your self this question: Your NTCC church, which is WINNING, by the way, feels the need to ARM ITSELF with firearms.
Isn't this what the Branch Dividian cult did? Hey you NTCC folks: Go check the shed!! You might find barrels of ammo waiting and ready to go.
Exactly how far does a guest have to act before they get shot?? That really is exciting. I wonder if the NTCC chuch here in Columbia has guns? Hummmm. Maybe I WILL go check it out!!
They might as well add the "Right to Bear Arms in their doctinal statement!!!
Bro Johnson
WOW! If having a gun at church doesn't scream cult then what does?
http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=7849443&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/
OK, now the BIG question is, where is the gun??
Behind the pulpit? Under a pew? Maybe (now this really is scary: The Preacher's wife: Maybe she carries it in her purse (My, that is a BIG purse you have) "The better to SHOOT you with" Thinks the P.W.
My question is: When did this first start happening? This adds a new level to the cult status of NTCC!!
I will never feel safe in a NTCC Church again!! (not that I would care to go to one)
Bro Johnson
Jeff,
If NTCC incorporates guns in the churches that can only mean:
Fear, which is the opposite of Faith. Is not Fear on the same level as witchcraft?
Makes you kind of wonder about the looney preachers out there, what is to say that THEY will not go postal on a brother for not bringing folks out to church.
I am sorry, but the handgun in this case is not security. It is domination over someone else.
If the preacher has a hundgun then they ought to let the members know (which they probably do not).
I still cannot believe this.
Bro Johnson
Lynn: I would prefer not to post my email address here, but my cell phone number is on the blog. Feel free to call me and I could give you my email address over the phone if that would be alright? I just don't want to get too much spam from disgruntled NTCCers who have a problem with this blog. That may not happen but I wouldn't want to take the chance.
Thanks,
Jeff
404-405-7842
totally understandable Jeff. I'll give you a call!
Lynn
Bro J asked...
OK, now the BIG question is, where is the gun??
Jeff said...
The NTCC pastor didn't tell me where the gun was kept. He just said that there is a need for one of his church members to bring a gun to church because of a disgruntled exNTCC church member/minister. This conversation did in fact take place between me and a current NTCC pastor. I really don't have a problem with writing the guys name and I probably should because he is such a jerk, but I figured I wouldn't this time simply because I was the one who called him. Who knows, I may very well change my mind but for now I just decided not to post the pastors name on this blog.
I will tell you that this; the guy is the biggest jerk of an abusive NTCC pastor that I have ever talked to in my life. Every other NTCC pastor that I have ever talked to, (regardless of how abusive) are pussy cats compared to this guy. He even went as far as trying to bait me into coming to his city so I could talk to him face to face. It was obvious that he was interested in starting some kind of brawl with me. What the idiot didn't and doesn't realize is that he would have had a serious hand full if I had taken up his offer.
This is not a boast but I was a pretty bad dude back in the day and I am still in pretty good shape. Much older but in good shape nevertheless. I took down dudes that outweighed me by about 100 lbs or more and I did so quite easily. I trained full time on active duty with the All Army Boxing Team, and I used to be quite the formidable wrestler who started wrestling in grade school. I pinned a dude who was almost double my weight and the guy was quite the athlete and strong. This guy was a dominating big basketball player but he just wasn't a wrestler and I made short work of him. Of course I can be beat but you can best believe that I can hold my own! The point that I am making is that this current NTCC pastor doesn't have a clue what type of guy it was that he tried to pick a brawl with yesterday.
One day he will pick a fight with the wrong person and he will get knocked out and then he will cry that he is being persecuted by the devil and try and make himself to be some kind of martyr. Either that or his gun toting brother will shoot the guy and get sent to prison for manslaughter. This clown has no business being a pastor over anyone.
During the shouting conversation that we had with each other, he called me a "dodo" and he said that I was quote "asinine".
My response to him was that I wouldn't waist my time or money to come see him. Realistically, what would an encounter like that accomplish? I would get sent to jail for premeditated assault and battery by beating the snot out of an NTCC minister or, I would foolishly travel to another state and get whooped by a dude who is meaner than I am which I doubt. Either way what would that accomplish, and why would a minister of the Gospel make such an offer? Because this clown has no business behind the pulpit in the first place.
I told him that he has NO temperance what so ever. You see I am no minister and I don't claim to have temperance but the fact is he should. 1 Ti 3:3 says that this pastor should not be a "brawler" which he clearly is. I know when I am being called out and that is "EXACTLY" what he was doing. This clown claims to be a pastor and a minister of the Gospel? What a joke. I have less respect for the NTCC today than I did when yesterday started. This guy is the sorriest excuse of a pastor that I have ever talked to in my life. No doubt!!!! I would clean Kekels dirty laundry before I would let this basket case ever pastor me. I would pick up the scraps that fell of Kekels dinner table before this clown would ever pastor me or my family. Believe it.
Jeff
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Seems there is a need.
Jeffy... you sound really tuff.... you like being in cyberspace making your claims to greatness... talking about Grade School wrestling... ha ha ha ha ha...
What ever happened to "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not to your own understanding. In all your ways Acknowledge him and he shall direct your path?"
Why carry a gun? If it is your time to go your gonna go no matter if your carrying a gun for protection or not. What ever happened to trusting God to let God handle the situation?
Everything happens for a reason. God can and does step in and prevent things when it is not someone's time. I know I've been there many times. I should be dead more times then I can count. But by the grace of God here I am. I don't walk around fearing what others are going to do to me. If it is my time to go then there is nothing that is going to stop it. If God decides your to live then you will live.
Pro 29:25 (NIV) Fear of man will prove to be a snare, but whoever trusts in the Lord is kept safe.
Pro 29:25 (KJV) The fear of man bringeth a snare: but who so putteth his trust in the LORD shall be safe.
hmm I think the Bible/God might have something there...wonder what that is....
Jer 7:4 (NIV)Do not trust in deceptive words and say, "This is the temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord!"
Jer 7:4 (KJV)Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, [are] these.
Nah 1:7 (NIV)The Lord is good, a refuge in times of trouble. He cares for those who trust in him,
Nah 1:7 (KJV) The LORD [is] good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him.
Anonymous said...
Jeffy... you sound really tuff.... you like being in cyberspace making your claims to greatness... talking about Grade School wrestling... ha ha ha ha ha.
Jeff said...
And you sound like you need to go back to Grade School and take up a class in effective reading. Ha, ha, ha, ha. You also spelled "tough" wrong. Being that you don't read very effectively, I had previously written that I quote "started wrestling in grade school". The key word there (Mr. English as a second language) was "started". I wrestled on an off all the way from about the 4th grade up to the time that I had about 8 years in the Army. It's highly improbable, (unless you were a wrestler also) that you would have lasted one minute before I pinned you after having ground your face into the ground while I was digging my chin into your ribs.
Sounds fun hey toughy, oh I mean "Anonymous"? I was just wondering; is Anonymous a tough name because I know Jeffy isn't.
The point that I was making is that this creep pastor didn't show very good judgment when he decided to challenge someone who he knew absolutely nothing about because he would have his hands full with me. Especially being that I don't like the guy.
Jeffy
Anonymous wrote...
2 dead in Colo. church shooting - Crime & courts- msnbc.com
Jeff wrote...
And? People get shot everyday. So I guess that every church needs to have at least one gun toting brother standing guard at the door while the offering is taken up. LOL. NTCC pastors wouldn't have to worry about having a brother in church with a gun if they didn't treat people like complete crap. This shows just how sick you NTCC guys really are.
Treat someone like crap, try to ruin their marriage instead of helping it, wrongfully extort every dime you can from them, and then to top it all off, stick a brother with a gun in the church building to shoot them when they get a little bit too upset.
Folks you need to run from the NTCC because there are some deranged pastors in that wacko organization. What if all the church members start carrying guns to church? You going to have a shoot out at OK Corral when someone gets upset with the abusive pastor? The same jerk pastor who provoked the whole situation in the first place?
Boy the NTCC is sicker than I ever thought. I can see it now. The jerk abusive pastor starts ripping someone from the pulpit and then the guy or gal get sick of it and stands up in the middle of the service and starts yelling back at the jerk pastor. Next thing that happens is a brother with a gun stands up and points it at the disgruntled church member while forcefully saying, "thus saith it Lord, leave the church now or else."
What a joke. So now you have NTCC pastors who have brothers bring a gun INSIDE THE CHURCH BUILDING during service. WOW!!!!!!!!!! Hire armed, uniformed security Officers if you think things have become that big of a problem you bunch of idiots. Pay them $20 an hour and cut the service short because you are cheap and have a good day.
Jeff
For the record: Unless an NTCC pastor comes to my house, (which I don't want) or I happen to see one around town, I don't plan to, or want to make face to face contact with another NTCC pastor ever again. I will not step foot in another NTCC owned building in my life. I have better things to do with my life than go look for some abusive pastor.
So to all you paranoid NTCCers, you don't have to worry about old Jeffy tipping around. You can put your guns away now.
By the way; not only do I post the truth but folks obviously like reading much of what is written on this blog. We ain't singing no hail Marys around here but we write the cold hard truth and that is obviously what folks like to read because we have had over 30,000 visitors to this blog in the short time that it has existed. Half of them have been people from the NTCC who are looking for the truth. The hit counter tells it all. When conference time came around, and half the hits came from middle Missouri the truth of who visits this blog became quite clear. NTCCers either disobeying RWD, or looking for the truth, or both.
Ha, ha to that.
Jeff
PS: You know what else is funny? In case you haven't figured it out I can type. I also picked up that skill when I was in school. 1 year of business typing. So I learned how to do two things in school, wrestle and type. The pen and the sword. Sounds like a pretty good combination. The old one, two punch. Entire countries have fallen with that combination.
Jeff you crack me up. I know your not trying to be funny but you just crack me up. I love your...take me on if you dare... attitude.
I'm the same way. I don't put up with people's crap and if they want to take me on I am all for it. I might be female and look to be weak and fraile but I can and have taken people down that weigh 100+ lbs more then I do. I guess my Dad forcing me to take martial arts class growing up paid off? I've had to defend myself a few times. And I won each time.
And one of them was a military guy who had martial arts training.. but he had boot camp martial arts training.. which means he got 12+ years thrown into 8 weeks which means.. he is USELESS!
And incase yall haven't got the hint I don't like abusive men and I will take them down if they try that crap on me. Dad didn't raise me to be a pansy or a push over and he didn't want me to be taken advantage of (physically abused). And I haven't been because I've put a stop to it first time the person tried.
Wish more women had the guts to stand up for themselves..
Once again I am witnessing bloggers projecting their values as a means to judge others. The same thing they accuse NTCC of doing. As with the "fear" issue bloggers have once again suggested that certain behavior/activity is contrary to faith. Jesus did not think so,
Luk 22:35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
Luk 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Luk 22:37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
Luk 22:38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.
NTCC Minister B.S., M.A.
Angie said...
Wish more women had the guts to stand up for themselves...
Jeff said...
That's what I'm talking about. You need to stand up for yourself in the NTCC and in life. Angie: I can see it now. You and I are in the same NTCC church and we are both sick and tired of listening to the abusive, blow hard preacher behind the pulpit. So you stand up and say something stupid back to the clown and he decides to escort you out of his church but he makes the mistake of putting his hand on you to move you in the direction of the door. Next thing that happens is that you and I beat the snot out of him right before a brother pulls out a gun and shoots both of us dead.
That is exactly why these guys are sick and dangerous. An abusive NTCC pastor will totally provoke the whole situation and an innocent church member will get shot by a trigger happy so called Christian brother.
For all it's worth Angie, I actually do try and be funny sometimes. It makes for better reading.
Jeff
I think minister has a point, although cloaked in "super-spirituality"
i attend a church of 1500 and oversee sunday school. One day a man tried to walk into one of our childrens sunday school classes and i politely told him he was not allowed to do that unless he had a child in the class, he responded that he needed a piece of tape, i told him to go to the church office. at this point he began to try to push his way in the door and i blocked his way. i tried to keep my cool and explain to him that "its for the kids sake that we dont allow strangers in the class" his response- "yeah, someone might go in and shoot them all"
this was spoken i a 'threatening' manner. i then consulted the pastors and church security and we spoke with the man and he has not returned.
My point is this- as a parent or loved one i expect those in leadership to do everything they can to protect my family and friends from "crazies" and those who are drugged to the point of psychosis. we have a security staff at our church that is consisted of police officers who are willing to serve god in the same capacity (plain clothes of course)
If you take the logic of "trust God" to its end, then why do we have police officer? or why are we fighting terrorism?
there is nothing wrong with defending yourself
T
NTCC Minister said...
Once again I am witnessing bloggers projecting their values as a means to judge others. The same thing they accuse NTCC of doing.
Jeff said...
Once again I, (unlike your brethren) am a true man with real character. Your statement, NTCC Minister is absolutely right and accurate except you are leaving one thing out. I'm not the one trying to claim that I am some great holy Christian who is going to save the world. I'm not even trying to act like a Christian or holy and make no mistake, your brethren aren't doing a good job at it either.
Who did Jesus have a bigger problem with. I will say it again for the 50th time. "The religious hypocrite". Jesus couldn't stand them and I could quote scripture after scripture but I don't need to because you know what I am saying is true. Will you also be a true man and admit that I am right?
The people who you need to judge are your brethren because I have already judged myself. The only soul winning that I am trying to do is show folks that they need to get their lives back from the clutches of the NTCC. I'm not telling them not to try and serve God. I'm telling them they need to try and find another church because the one they are in has them deceived. Please don't ask me how they are deceived. We have said it over and over again right on this blog so if you want an answer please start fishing through all the other threads and "if" you are a true man, you will get your answer and you will be able to admit that you are part of the "wrong" organization also.
Jeff
God help you if that gun toting ntcc minsiter confuses you with a cat!!
T
NTCC Minister: I have to give it to you, that was a good scripture. So I guess if I ever did go back to an NTCC church, (which I won't but for the sake of a good discussion) I should bring my Gun? Into the church building?
There you have it folks. You just got it straight from NTCC Minister! Being that at least one NTCC pastor, (and I am sure there are more) has a brother who brings a gun into the church building during service, you might need your gun also to protect yourself against the brainwashed, unstable, trigger happy brother. Because buddy, I have been around the NTCC long enough to know that is exactly what he is. It is a dangerous situation without doubt and the abusive pastor will provoke the whole thing for sure!!
By the way and for the record: Don't anyone bring a gun into a church because it is against the law. You must be a law enforcement representitive with a special permit to carry a gun into any public gathering to include a church building.
Jeff
Jeff,
What you just suggested is against the law. It is unlawful to carry a concealed weapon into a church or house of worship even if the individual is licensed to carry concealed weapons. The only exception are those who have been given permission by the minister or responsible party. (ie. facility manager, board)
Good to know Jeff is on record suggesting that people violate the law.
NTCC Minister B.S., M.A.
Jeff didn't you say you called the pastor? Why, are you trying to pravoke something?
Why do you post here? Aren't you trying to stir up hate?
Do you read minds? Because you imply it when you say "I know that's what he was trying to do"!
Your a fraud Jeff... a shameful hatemonger. These men do what they beleive God has called them to do.... right or wrong... if you believe the scripture you seem to want to draw your power from... then leave them alone... but you won't.
30,000 visitors how many of them are unique? Hmmmmmmm... oh, yeah most are the same people coming back over and over. Until you go to far and they pull your blog like they did Tracy and it sure sounds to me like your going in that direction advising people to break the law.
Why not post your home number so people can call you when they like? WHy not post your address. These men all have their personal information posted and nuts like you and that sword weilding freak in Washington know exactly where they are and how to get ahold of them so you continue your "crusade" of folly!
Oh, and for the record I knew I miss spelled Tuff... because you don't sound tough you deserved a more elementary term.
Didn't you tell someone once that you would not become like the Denis crowed? Your right, your worse but take heed when you think you stand.... well, you know the rest don't you BIble Answer Man
NTCC Minister said...
Good to know Jeff is on record suggesting that people violate the law.
Jeff said...
I am on record as saying: By the way and for the record: Don't anyone bring a gun into a church because it is against the law. You must be a law enforcement representitive with a special permit to carry a gun into any public gathering to include a church building.
As I have already stated NTCC Minister also said...
"The only exception are those who have been given permission by the minister or responsible party."
Jeff said...
Once again that is only partially accurate. The individual that you give permission to or hire to carry a weapon in your church building must have a special permit. I just copied and pasted this from a state website.
It is against the law (misdemeanor offense) for a person (licensed or not) to carry to or while at a public gathering any explosive compound, firearm, or knife designed for the purpose of offense or defense (including ANY deadly weapon not listed here). A public gathering is defined and includes, but is not limited too, athletic or sporting events, churches or church functions, political rallies and/or functions, publicly owned or operated buildings(Fed, state, or local government buildings), and establishments at which alcoholic beverages are sold for consumption on the premises and it derives less than 50 percent of their total annual gross food and beverage sales from the sale of prepared meals or food (Basically bars but not restaurants with bars in them. Check their business license if you are not sure as the state license lists what is a restaurant that servers alcohol and what is a bar. Does not apply to stores that sell alcohol for consumption somewhere else, like liquor stores, gas stations, etc.). Nothing in this code section shall otherwise prohibit the carrying of a firearm in any other public place by a person licensed or permitted to do so. (This means licensees are permitted to carry in stores, malls, financial institutions, and other places open to the public)
This code section does not apply to persons who are licensed under code 16-11-129 (Georgia Firearm License) or in accordance with code 43-38-10 (special carry licenses for security guards)
Jeff said...
Once again; what do you bet that old Joe the NTCC church member, (who an NTCC pastor told me is carrying a gun in his church), does not have the right permit?
You better check your own people NTCC Minister before you go throwing around laws because I am not the one carrying a gun into a church.
Jeff
Anonymous asked...
Why do you post here? Aren't you trying to stir up hate?
Jeff replied...
No, I'm not trying to stir up hate. Are NTCC ministers trying to stir up hate every time they put out someone's private business over the pulpit in front of the entire congregation? The NTCC pastor feels the need to expose the person because he thinks they are in sin and I feel the need to expose the NTCC because I think they are in sin and people need to know the truth about the NTCC.
They need to know that they might be walking into a church with some brother who has a gun. I would want to know that. I contend that there are plenty of nutty NTCC brothers who have no business carrying a gun any place say no less in a church building. T. made a valid point. He says the church folks have the right to protection against a potential nut. Who's providing protection against the potentially nutty NTCC church member sitting in the church building with a gun because the irresponsible NTCC pastor put him there?
Do you really think I should trust my families well being to an NTCC brother in church with a gun? You've got to be kidding me. I loaned an NTCC minister $100 that he never gave back and this guy was supposedly the best minister helper in the whole church out of 3 helpers according to the pastor. I'm supposed to trust an NTCC pastors judgment? Knowing what I know now I might as well shoot myself in the head.
Jeff
Angie said:
"Why carry a gun? If it is your time to go your gonna go no matter if your carrying a gun for protection or not. What ever happened to trusting God to let God handle the situation?"
I went to a mainline church in SA and they had metal detectors at the doors when a popular Pastor came to town to speak. I was upset of course.
I believe in trusting God, but I don't believe in being a fool. I agree if you need security in a church that bad you should hire security or police officers, not some" bolo badge" brother.
NTCC Minister it really gets on my nerves when you use the same lame argument "... The same thing they accuse NTCC of doing" It is easy to broadbrush and not dig into the real issues. How many people on this blog used their position of power to mistreat someone?
In the Book of Matthew Jesus said: “Return your sword to its place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword."
The real issue is church members getting fed up with being abused(i.e. the sword). They think they are hearing a message...and its not its gossip pure and simple. People don't want gossip, but the gospel. Its no wonder they want go Jerry Springer all over the place. There is a cause and effect, a time and season for everything.
NTCC Minister I sat in a service where the Pastor called a brother's wife a whore. I had a minister point his finger two inches in front of my face over working . If I didn't have any sense, I could have reacted like he was throwing a punch.
I want NTCC to reform and return to its first love(s), Jesus and the souls of men and women.
Nellashara
Nellashara said...
I went to a mainline church in SA and they had metal detectors at the doors when a popular Pastor came to town to speak. I was upset of course.
I believe in trusting God, but I don't believe in being a fool. I agree if you need security in a church that bad you should hire security or police officers, not some" bolo badge" brother.
Jeff said...
Amen!!! And the church said Amen!!! That is exactly my point. You get security in there. Not some "bolo badge" brother. Ha, ha, ha, LOL ie laugh out loud, or ROFL ie role on the floor laughing!
Jeff
NS said...
NTCC Minister I sat in a service where the Pastor called a brother's wife a whore. I had a minister point his finger two inches in front of my face over working . If I didn't have any sense, I could have reacted like he was throwing a punch.
Jeff said...
Sounds great hey NTCC Minister? That very story is exactly why this blog is here. I've witnessed the same garbage time and time again.
What is your answer to that NTCC Minister? Calling a woman a whore? Pointing fingers in folks faces? Because they have a job? Pointing their finger in a womans face? That abusive jerk is lucky that his finger didn't get broke.
Jeff
nellashara,
NTCC has never left its first love!!
they have stayed steady and persevered.
Many have contributed to the cause and sacrificed all they had.
apparently you aren't spiritual enough to see that ntcc is just as on fire today as ever before!!
I will declare with full authority- NTCC HAS NOT LEFT THERE FIRST LOVE!!!
AMEN?
ntcc has always loved and always will love..........MONEY!!!
sincerely,
T
JE$U$
the Jesus of the false teachers
T said...
"there is nothing wrong with defending yourself"
Jeff said...
T, I totally agree with everything that you are saying but I also know that many of these NTCC pastors and their deranged brethren have no business carrying a gun in the church or anywhere else for that matter. I can think of about 5 nuts right of the top of my head who the NTCC has recruited. That is not responsible gun control to put one in the hands of someone like that.
NTCC Minister said...
"The only exception are those who have been given permission by the minister or responsible party."
First, I don't consider many NTCC ministers to be responsible parties. It is not responsible to tell your church members they should give money to the church even if it means that they do not pay their rent. I have heard that come out of every NTCC pastors mouth that I ever had. Totally irresponsible.
Second, you are wrong NTCC Minister. You can't just give someone authorization to carry a firearm into a church. They must have a special carry license for security guards or other law enforcement personnel. I just looked it up on the good old internet. Some pastor can't solicit old Joe the church member to carry a gun into the church. It doesn't even matter if old Joe has a concealed weapons permit. He has to have a special permit which I highly doubt that anyone in the NTCC has so I am quite confident that this brother in question, who is in fact carrying a gun into a current active NTCC church is breaking the law.
Jeff.
T said:
"apparently you aren't spiritual enough to see that ntcc is just as on fire today as ever before!!"
your right T...i got my spirituality out of a box of "Tuffy-O's" Cereal this morning.
All joking aside...NTCC Ministers need to trust that their members have enough spirituality. If a FAITHFUL church member says, you are out of line...the Minister should consider what was said not blast that member from the pulpit.
The inability to publicly acknowledge mistakes has caused the downfall of many empires.
Nellashara
Jeffy... gun laws in Georgia are not the same as Gun Laws in California... they all differ.
Second, outside "visitors" to a church cannot carry a gun without the express permission of the church leadership.
But now Jeff, tell the truth, you feel it don't you? The hatred I mean. It wells up inside every time you say the letters NTCC, or Rev Kekel, or RWD, your blood pressure elevates, your mouth starts to water and the hatred begins to take over your mind and soul.
You’re corrupt, a bitter root, a failed life. You’re on a quest, yet believing a lie the whole while. But time slowly tic, tic, tic's away. You spend so much time on your crusade you couldn't possibly spend time one reaching a soul where Christ has not been once named.
Listen, shhhhhh, still your mind for a moment, and listen. Do you hear it, the sloshing, or rather whooshing of your blood as it flows through your veins. You think you have it within your control and yet you are but one heartbeat away from eternity. So what do you do with your precious time? You spend it in Hate, in Hurt, in Disrespect, in Degrading your own soul to the point of total contamination.
Time is winding, winding up, get your business straight, please don't hesitate cuz time is winding up..............
"Second, you are wrong NTCC Minister. You can't just give someone authorization to carry a firearm into a church. They must have a special carry license for security guards or other law enforcement personnel."
Most likely the laws vary widely from state to state.
anonymous,
Let me ask- Is this the way that you "preach" to your "congregation" (lol, i mean the handful of dead beats who attend)?
Is this what you learned in "Bible School"(ironic name)?
How to use fear and manipulation and antagonism to control people and put them down?
The one overwhelming characteristic of NTCC people who post on these blogs is hands down IGNORANCE!
with the exception of ntcc minister and concerned minister, you would think that ntcc was a church in the mountains of West Virgia with a bunch of snake handling witch doctors!
man, i get disgusted just thinking about it, you guys have absolutely nothing to say other than a robotic, propaganda filled response.
Do you ever think for yourself? its not a sin, its actually quite biblical and healthy...try it
seriously, read 1Corinthians 1 and 2 and tell me if you are carnal or spiritual, exalting these men is totally carnal. and the funny thing is the corinthian believer were exalting good men who loved God, you are exalting thieves and liars and manipulators, who are filled with the works of the flesh
my rant is over!
T
Anonymous said...
"Second, outside "visitors" to a church cannot carry a gun without the express permission of the church leadership."
Jeff said...
That may not even be the case in all states. Even with permission the individual carrying the gun has to be licensed with the proper permit in "most" states. I don't care how much permission the church leadership wants to give. If the gun toting brother doesn't have the proper permit he is still breaking the law and it doesn't matter what state you are in "with few exceptions".
The most liberal state that I know of and have lived in (where gun laws are concerned) is Alaska. You don't even need to have a permit to carry a concealed handgun in Alaska. There are restrictions for folks who have criminal records. I looked on the state of Alaska website and I simply couldn't find any restrictions at all concerning places where you could or could not carry a handgun, (as long is you met the age limitations and didn't have a record). It may be there but I got tired of looking. If there are no restrictions in Alaska, that means that anyone could carry a handgun in a church. Church members or security personnel.
Here is a link to Alaska gun laws: http://www.dps.state.ak.us/Statewide/PermitsLicensing/docs/achp/ACHPRegs.pdf
Jeff
Vic said...
Most likely the laws vary widely from state to state.
Jeff said...
Vic is absolutely right. The laws do very widely from state to state. I have just searched enough to know. However I also know that almost every state does not give a church leadership the authority to allow any old bolo badge brother to come into church with a gun. If the bolo badge brother doesn't have the proper permit in the first place than he can't bring a gun into a church or anywhere else in most states. That is for certain. As we have found in the state of Georgia you must have a special permit in addition to a regular concealed weapons permit or you can't legally bring a gun into a church period regardless of what the pastor says.
Jeff
Anonymous said...
"Time is winding, winding up, get your business straight, please don't hesitate cuz time is winding up.............."
Jeff said...
You sound like some psychopathic self appointed, deranged psychologist. You can't psychoanalyst me. You said that I am a failed life? If you think my life is failed, I'd hate to know what you think about half of the old timers in the NTCC. If I would have gotten out of the military and gone to the NTCCs school of rules, I would have certainly failed myself and wasted a whole lot more time than I did. If I was still in the NTCC now I would have a "failing" life. But guess what you deranged, brainwashed, NTCC yes man? Assuming you are still in the NTCC you have the only life that is failing. I got out of your cult; have you forgotten?
If you are Kekel you have already failed and I don't care how much money you have. Turning the Gospel into gain isn't what I consider success. Treating people right and working for a living goes a lot further in my book than blasting people from the pulpit while you fleece your sheep for every dime you can get.
You sounded like some old gray haired dude who was the door keeper from a Frankenstein movie.
You're nutter than a fruit cake.
Jeff
I don't like fruit cake....or fruit cakes....have had to deal with my fair share and don't care for either.
I just found out what the law reads in the state where this NTCC pastor resides and ministers. The same pastor who has someone carry a gun in church.
First: In this particular state "No One" can carry a concealed firearm without a permit.
Second: In this particular state you can not bring a gun into a church even if you have a concealed permit without special permission from the appropriate local law enforcement agency.
Third: The "OWNER" of the church building, not the pastor in the case of the NTCC must obtain approval for the individual to carry a gun into the church building and only the "owner" can give the authorized, licensed security representative authorization to carry a gun into the church building.
We all know that the pastor of the NTCC church owns nothing, so a corporate exec like RWD, Kekel or Olson must be the one to go through all the red tape before anyone is allowed to carry a gun into this church in question. I seriously doubt that all took place. The licensed security rep also has to go through a significant degree of red tape in addition to the owner.
Personally I could care less but good old NTCC Minister decided to throw laws around so I did my homework so we would all know what the real deal is.
I know one thing. I wouldn't bring my family into an NTCC church building where some bolo badge brother is running around with a gun at the discretion of the local pastor. RWD is the one who picked Denis; have you forgotten? He is the guy who has the "devil" according to so many people in the NTCC. If they are right for a change, how do we know that they won't pick a gun toting brother who has the devil. Just food for thought.
"Hey honey come see my new church", and then the pastor calls a woman a whore from the pulpit and the next thing you know the women slaps him, the husband punches him and then, BANG!! BANG!! BANG!!
Bolo Bagde Brother Bob to the rescue. Na, not for me.
Jeff
I got em pastor. He's still breathing, should I shoot em again sir? Can we sing the devil is under my feet now pastor? You said he had the devil right sir? How many rounds do you need to kill the devil, I already put two in him sir.
Personally I wouldn't go to a church where anyone but the security were carrying a gun. And I would want to know about said gun. If it is hidden then that worries me.
I don't go to a church that is like that and doesn't need to be. But we do have a sister who is a police officer who always has her fire arm with her even when she is off duty. And she has legal right to do so. But I know her well and trust her with her weapon. I know she is not a fruit cake "bolo badge brother/sister" who will only use her gun when absolutely necessary. she is a police officer and is not even in the least bit intemidating unless she needs to be. Too bad I can't say that for others who are still in NTCC. Some of them make your hairs stand on end just looking at them.
I know there is not an NTCC here where I live but there is UPC and Mennionites (sorry if I mutilated the spelling). And I know they mean well but when I see the long hair and dresses to the floor I beat feet in the other direction.. thank you NTCC for beating that into me... Now I don't trust anyone who is in a long skirt with long hair.
What if the brother is an off duty office... did you ever think of that dumb donald?
Why did you call the guy anyway? What business did you have with him that would make it necessary for you to call someone you say is a "total jerk" and "I don't like him" what did you call him for? Sound like you were just trying to stir the pot
"What if the brother is an off duty office... did you ever think of that dumb donald?"
I sure he thought of it you pep squad nincompoop!
"Sound like you were just trying to stir the pot."
most pastors are so wound up about nothing a fly landing on their shoulder stirs a pot!
I wonder if the the fly's life is more valuable than a cat's?
Like the thread started out. NTCCers are carrying guns because the are worried about the exNTCCers and exNTCCers are worried about current NTCCer going after them.
I was told this by an exNTCCer who still lives around Graham. He said he doesn't want to post his name on the blog because he is worried that some current NTCC minister will come after him and his family. The NTCC really has this guy shell shocked. I tried to assure him that I really didn't think that would happen but he insisted, (because of his NTCC experiences) that he was afraid of NTCC people, and he was concerned for the safety of himself and his family.
Look what the NTCC has created. Folks on both sides scared for there lives. There is nothing Godly or Christ like about that whole situation.
You know I talk about NTCC folks but I also know there are also some nutty folks who have left the NTCC. A couple of these folks have some serious mental problems. The sad truth is they really could be a danger to current NTCC folks. I can say if the NTCC hadn't treated them so bad they probably wouldn't have anything to worry about.
It really doesn't matter how bad the NTCC has treated them. That still doesn't give a nut justification to become violent. To my knowledge it hasn't happened yet but what the NTCC needs to realize is that they don't have to provoke people. None of that stuff is necessary. You don't have to call some woman a whore or point you finger in someones face.
Just keep abusing folks you NTCC pastors. You will abuse the wrong nut one day. Don't let your control freak mentality place your church members or your family in jeopardy. Is it worth it so you can brag about how bad you blasted someone across the pulpit? I don't think you will be bragging if one of these nuts do flip out. The fact is the NTCC ministers would probably still brag that they had become a martyr. Even if it cost them someone in their very own church. That is the real sick part.
Jeff
NTCC pastor said...
What if the brother is an off duty office... did you ever think of that dumb donald?
Jeff said...
You must be the pastor that I called. So now I am dumb donald? Yesterday I was dodo and asinine. Things that make you go hmmmm.
Jeff
Anonymous asked...
What business did you have with him that would make it necessary for you to call someone you say is a "total jerk"?
Jeff said...
I didn't know the extent of the jerk condition before we talked on the phone. I do now. He took first place in the NTCCs abusive control freak competition. I never talked to another NTCC minister who was as bad as this guy. I called him because I wanted clarification concerning someone he had dealt with in his church.
In the process the pastor decided to spill his guts about the perceived need for someone to carry a gun in his church during service. He also told me that Kekel said that God told Kekel that there was nothing wrong with listening to country music and that Kekel has been doing it for quite a while with Gods permission.
I guess that God told Kekel and RWD something different because RWD said that it was a sin to listen to worldly music. Oh I forgot, silly me. Country music doesn't fall in the category of worldly music? I must of missed that part in RWDs messages and every other NTCC pastor who preached against worldly music.
Are you still having fun in the NTCC black folks? My wife is black and she doesn't particularly care for country music but if she was still in the NTCC she wouldn't have much choice. I don't particularly care for it either. That is apparently the only worldly option as of yet that has been approved by God. Howdy? If Kekel can listen to country music, it must also be alright with God for folks to listen to R&B or pop or soul music. I kind of like a little Barry White every now and then. I don't see any difference. Just don't forget to tell RWD about Gods new rule. RWD must have been out fishing when God sent down that revelation.
I'm having fun now. NTCC leadership: You better tell your unwise pastors not to talk to me any longer because every time they do they seem to get diarrhea of the mouth. They seem to have the innate tendency to tell me things that you wouldn't want me to know. Just a little friendly advise.
Jeff
"also told me that Kekel said that God told Kekel that there was nothing wrong with listening to country music and that Kekel has been doing it for quite a while with Gods permission."
Jeff don't you understand NTCC dispensations!
The Past Dispensation of Southern Gospel
Now is the dispensation of Country Music
Final dispensation: Southern Rock
Kid Rock is preaching next fellowship meeting.
Anon!
Time is winding, winding up, get your business straight, please don't hesitate cuz time is winding up..............
Anonymous, thank you for exposing NTCC for the FRAUD it is! Amen and Amen!! By the way - "cuz" is not a word. Get a dictionary, why don't you!!
Bro Johnson
Jeff, have you noticed on the hit counter that we are getting a bunch of hits from Texas tonight? I wonder what thats all about?
Anonymous said...
Jeff, have you noticed on the hit counter that we are getting a bunch of hits from Texas tonight? I wonder what thats all about?
Jeff said...
I think I have a pretty good idea.
Jeff
Jeff, you stated,
"Kekel said that God told Kekel that there was nothing wrong with listening to country music and that Kekel has been doing it for quite a while with Gods permission"
Since when has Kekel ever had a one on one relationship with Jesus Christ?
Since Kekel is now hearing voices in his head, I am starting to wonder what god is he really serving?
Kekel is hearing AUDIBLE VOICES in his head. Does that not concern you, NTCC followers, that your leader is two clowns short of a circus, and two fries short of a happy meal? The light is on, but no one is home. No one has been home for a long, long time.
Now that we have established that the MAN WHO HEARS GOD TALKING TO HIM has gone off the deep end, what does that say about the rest of NTCC leadership??
ANON, what say you?
Bro Johnson
"But time slowly tic, tic, tic's away.
(This sounds like that Tic Tac commercial!!)
You spend so much time on your crusade you couldn't possibly spend time one reaching a soul where Christ has not been once named.
(On the contrary, Jesus is the reason why Jeff runs this blog you infidel!!)
Listen, shhhhhh, still your mind for a moment, and listen.
(This sounds GAY. Is this that GAY NTCC preacher talking??)
Do you hear it, the sloshing, or rather whooshing (OK I am going to throw up, great choice of words)
of your blood as it flows through your veins (Sounds like the once Dracula flick I missed!!)".
I will only say this once more on this blog: I am sorry, but THAT petty, sissified threat that ANON just posted is just so GAY!!!!!
Bro Johnson
Hear is a horrid thought"
A GAY NTCC Preacher carrying a gun!
Like Bro Price at Junction City NTCC used to say, "Your going to Hell!!"
MLJ
Jeff!
I see a hit from China!!!!
Bro Johnson
To China Brother or Reverand:
Please identify yourself. We come in peace. We mean you no harm.
Are you from NTCC?? Please respond as we know you read this blog.
Have a blessed day!
Bro Johnson
I just want to make something clear. Whether the brother who is carrying the gun is legal or not was never my original point. In fact, originally, legalities never even crossed my mind. He may very well be legally carrying a gun in the church. NTCC pastors aren't always that bad at crossing the t's or dotting the I's.
The issue was all these church folks running around in fear. This is originally what I wrote and I quote for the record: "An NTCC preacher told me just yesterday that he has someone bring a gun to church just in case an exNTCC church member decides to show up and go postal or something."
The only reason the subject of state laws ever even came up is because NTCC Minister questioned the legality of a statement that I made. Then Vic made a valid statement and by this time I was well into digging around to figure out what the different state laws are concerning carrying a handgun in church.
The whole point that I am trying to make is that it is in fact a sad state of affairs, when church folks feel that they have to carry a gun into their church building because of someone who has left the church.
It is also a sad state of affairs that an exNTCC church member was so thoroughly terrorized by his NTCC pastor, that he is afraid to post his name on an open blog because he is worried about some NTCC folks coming after him or his family.
Of all people, I should be worried about that more than anyone but I am not. If I was worried, I wouldn't be running this blog. No one has to worry about me either. This is where I stand. NTCC folks are trying to soul win people into their church, and I am trying to show them the reasons that they need to get out or the reasons that they shouldn't start with the NTCC in the first place.
You NTCC folks feel that you are saving souls and I also feel that I am saving souls and lives. I truly believe that people would have a much better life if they were to have nothing to do with the NTCC. There are NTCC folks who feel differently so guess what you NTCC guys can continue with your soul winning and I fully plan to continue with mine.
Jeff
HECK NO WE WON'T GO!!!!
WE PLAN TO RUIN THEIR SHOW!!!
(expose their show)
I'm almost tempted the next time I am in Washington state to go out to Graham and see if they let me past the front door. Heck bring a news crew with me while I'm at it.
I warn every single last military perso I meet about NTCC. And you would not believe how many of them have contacted me to thank me for warning them.
My Cousin just got to his first duty station and he is already being bothered by them. He wasn't so nice. He isn't a Christian but I still laughed at the lovely story he told me about the invite he received and how he pretty much told them to take a leap off a tall building. But not in a nice way. At least people I know are listening to me when I tell them to flat out turn down any invites to NTCC they might receive. NTCC might have cults world wide. But I have contacts world wide. And they are all spreading the DO NOT GO TO NTCC message for me. Where I can not go myself. If I ever find out they are here in Idaho(they used to have an NTCC here until the Pastor left NTCC and closed it down) I won't hesitate to get a permit to picket them right in front of their building. Won't bother me one bit. Idaho is hard territory to break anyways. Farmers are not so nice. The people around here have been here for generations. They work the land and they don't like being told what to do.
Angie said...
I warn every single last military perso I meet about NTCC. And you would not believe how many of them have contacted me to thank me for warning them.
Jeff said...
That's a good thing. Many GIs would have been a whole lot better off had they received a warning first. The NTCC sounds great when you first get involved. You see the brothers all dedicated and you think you part of something special. As time goes on you start to see a whole different picture but by that time you are already so far in that it's actually become hard to get out.
Sure you could just leave but it's not always as simple as it sounds. The other part of the equation is that while you are in, information is so restricted that you really can't find much out about the organization which makes it even harder to make a decision. You actually wind up sticking around for a while, and you have a few different pastors before all the pieces start coming together.
That's what happened with me. I got too many pastors that all showed the same abusive tendencies back to back and I went to too many conferences listening to RWD too many times back to back. And it all became clear. Then Kekel (who I had no previous exposure to) comes into the picture and things really became clear.
It wasn't all about holiness. It wasn't about right living. It might be with God but it certainly wasn't with the NTCC. It was about control, money, power, prestige, nepotism, (which is keeping it in the family) and in reality the NTCC had virtually nothing to do with God other than some arbitrary references to Christ while preaching. And a phony outward appearance that Tanya, Mike and some other sisters change the rules to every time they got a chance. Anyone who can not see this is thoroughly blind.
The sad part is, it will be really difficult to figure out with RWD on his way out the door. Kekel is making it a kinder, gentler NTCC, but he still has the same agenda. Like his father in law Kekel loves the power and control and of course the money, (and realistically who doesn't) and so does Tanya. The problem is, it's not Christian and the little people who are really trying to follow God are being duped. I have learned that NTCC is a very ungodly organization. All doctrine aside, and believe it, the NTCC has some doctrinal issues also, "many" people in the Catholic church show a whole lot more Godliness than "Most" people that I have met in the NTCC.
We need to keep up the good work Angie, especially with the soldiers because that is the NTCC "cash cow". The US Military. The NTCC stinks. They target young folks plain and simple, and they use other young folks to do it.
Jeff
Jeff said;;;;
The NTCC sounds great when you first get involved. You see the brothers all dedicated and you think you part of something special. As time goes on you start to see a whole different picture but by that time you are already so far in that it's actually become hard to get out.
Angie replies....
yup thats what happened to me and I know I was not in NTCC as long as a lot of others who post on here. But I always had that nagging feeling in the back of my mind that SOMETHING wasn't right and I ignored it.... Until that one day....and then another day.. and then another day....and then I started planning my escape.....and then.....I left...... NEVER to return.
The last week of September 2009 will be 4 years out for me.
Alot of us left when mk came out with his so calle policies that used to be called sins. Many of us hated to be lied to.
Now look Mike K. is hosting a Fourth of July BBQ party with sports that used to not be allowed. Mike K. can listen to country music,his kid plays sports. More Lie's that people have lived under for years.
those of you still in. You know it is a shame your living. Ntcc is not at all what you thought they were. Last hope for the world. NOT! Just another scam to get money out of people. While controlling there live's.
If they are such great leaders,spiritual idols to follow and emulate your life after. What has Mike K. done that has changed the world. Where are the Masses of people he has reached for God. What has he done that would cause such respect. He sits in a office,shuffling paper's,run a choir,lame preaching(trying to emulate rw davis.
Oh and climbing mountains in the Phillpians as rw state's he has done ALONG time ago. Does not make him an apostle. No one to verify if he has prayed over his daughter in the phillippians.
If ntcc has lied to folks over there rules and activities that were supposed to be off limits. How do you know if there not lying about EVERYHING!!
CM
Time for another mass exodus. Flee the cult.
Just thought I would share an interesting link and quote from the site.
http://www.christiangunowner.com/
"SELF DEFENSE. For the informed Christian, we know that the Bible does not call us to pacifism in protecting ourselves and our families from the criminals of this world. And self defense takes more forms than just protection by firearms. Gun defense as well as many other types will be discussed here. Aticles by martial artists and self defense experts are welcome and will be included here."
P.S. - Hey PDQ, how is that study on fear coming along? I think tomorrow will be a week since you said you would post in a few days or maybe even a week. I believe that was the time line you had indicated.
NTCC Minister B.S., M.A.
NTCC Minister quoted...
"For the informed Christian, we know that the Bible does not call us to pacifism in protecting ourselves and our families from the criminals of this world."
Jeff said...
NTCC Minister: I agree with that statement totally. So why is it that the NTCC teaches that the Bible calls us to pacifism where working is concerned?
So you are saying that we can't trust God to protect us but we can trust God to quit jobs for conference, only work when services aren't scheduled, and never work on Saturdays and Sundays and God will take care of the rest?
You see NTCC Minister, you can't have it both ways. I totally agree that we should protect ourselves and I also "KNOW" that providing for our family also means that we should work when we need to even if services or soul winning is scheduled. If God expects to unconditionally protect ourselves than God also expects us to unconditionally provide for ourselves.
RWD stood right up in the middle of conference and commended Bro Saunders for quitting his job so that he could go to conference. That was stupid just like it would be stupid to allow someone to walk into your church building and assault your church members.
The NTCC leadership teaches that if your boss won't let you off work and you don't trust God enough to quit your job for conference than you lack faith. Don't tell me I don't know what I am talking about because I witnessed it. But the NTCC doesn't feel that we can trust God enough to protect us?
Once again NTCC minister, you and or your churches are promoting a double standard and you know what I am saying is true.
If I can throw all common sense to the wind and throw away a perfectly good job while blindly trusting that God will provide for my family than I can trust that God will protect me, my family or my church, just like he protected the Children of Israel when he opened the Red Sea and let them cross on dry land right before he devoured the enemy.
That is exactly why I can't stand the NTCC. I hate double standards. You see God never took away my ability to think outside the NTCC proverbial box. For that matter if we only have enough money to pay either our rent or tithe than according your self protection logic we should naturally pay our rent. If we can't trust God to protect us than we can't trust God rain down extra money from heaven so that we don't destroy our credit, get evicted, or wind up bankrupt or just remain flat out broke just like so many NTCC folks that we have all known.
Don't quote to me scriptures about trusting God for money because I can quote a whole lot more scriptures about trusting God for protection!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You see NTCC Minister, the NTCC is notorious for throwing faith in the trash for one reason while preaching you into the dirt for not exercising your faith for another reason that suits their agenda.
Like I always say, A BIG FAT DOUBLE STANDARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do you think this one time you can say that Old Chief just made a totally valid point that can not be disputed and he is totally right?
Jeffrey Collins
You shouldn't do anything that puts God in a position where he must act on your behalf or else you will be in trouble.
That is called "Tempting God". Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
The reason the NTCC teachers that you should quit or not take jobs is because they don't care if you don't take care of your family. Bottom line point blank.
What they do care about is that you are in church service to make their numbers look good and put more money in the offering even if you barely have any. The NTCC leadership doesn't care if you and your family goes broke because you won't work on Saturdays when work is available. All they care about is that you go soul winning so that you can bring more people to "their" church so that the numbers will look good and more money will come in the offering and Kekel can continue to have all his nice things because he doesn't have to worry about working anyway and he hasn't for years because he lives off of a bunch of broke and struggling NTCCers.
Your self protection theory is TOTALLY FLAWED "OR" the NTCCs requirement to only work when there is not services, soul winning or conferences is totally flawed. ONE OR THE OTHER because you can't have it both ways. DOUBLE STANDARD!!!!!!! That is why I can't stand the NTCC and that is why this blog is here. So a logical guy like me, who has a backbone, can get the word out to a "lost and dying NTCC church.
Dispute that logic. You can't beat pure undefiled "LOGIC".
Jeffrey Collins
404-405-7842
NTCC Minister B.S., M.A...."Hey PDQ, how is that study on fear coming along? I think tomorrow will be a week since you said you would post in a few days or maybe even a week. I believe that was the time line you had indicated."
You are correct, Sir; and I am keeping track of the 'time line'. But, there has been no recent 'study', since I have been ready to post support of my position years before this recently came up.
As I said, I just had to tweak what I already have so I can post it. My 'waiting' to post was to accommodate you and Jeff (and anyone else who would come to your aid), not out of any personal need to 'figure out' why I believe differently than both or you.
Thanks for keeping tabs on this for me, and your commitment to holding me to a high standard.
pdq
What ties do NTCC have with the Military?
Most Cracker Jack Bogus License Preachers who graduate NTCC and flash gang signs were from the Military.
The Military personnel who attend NTCC in essence RUN NTCC's wheels. NTCC knows you get a "Military Brother" to come live in the Servicemen's Home, you have, what retired military personnel call, residual income. And what is that? Income that keeps on coming, faithfully, year after year.
The Military are used to superiors barking down orders to them. That is why MOST will not question a preacher's words, or do like Jeff does: Show them they are WRONG by the Word of God. (Hooah Jeff!)
The Military teaches loyalty. That is what NTCC wants it's preachers who are broke to be: Loyal to the organization.
Without the Military, the Wheels to the NTCC Carriage would come flying off!!
Bro JOhnson
NTCC Minister said...
Hey PDQ, how is that study on fear coming along?
Jeff said...
Hey NTCC Minister: While you are waiting for pdq to give you an answer, why don't you respond to my assessment that NTCC ministers say you should have faith for God to provide but not protect. I made a valid legitimate point and I would like to see what your thoughts are on that subject.
Jeff
NTCC is not against people working. In fact you must work if you are going to attend seminary. As far as a wife working a secular job. Why introduce the imbalance into the home and family just to have more stuff. I believe the national house hold income average is around $40,000.00 per year. Is this adequate?
NTCC Minister B.S., M.A.
NTCC Minister said...
"NTCC is not against people working"
Jeff said...
Now NTCC Minister: You know that I wasn't simply talking about people working. I was talking about the NTCC being apposed to people working during conference times, church services or soul winning times. You were not sincere with you answer at all. Let me quote my original statement:
"So you are saying that we can't trust God to protect us but we can trust God to quit jobs for conference, only work when services aren't scheduled, and never work on Saturdays and Sundays and God will take care of the rest?"
NTCC Minister: You said... "For the informed Christian, we know that the Bible does not call us to pacifism in protecting ourselves and our families from the criminals of this world."
I said that God doesn't call us to pacifism when it come to providing for ourselves either. Quitting jobs for conference and going without work because we can't find someone to hire us to "only" work M-F from 9-5 is pacifism and irresponsible. The NTCC says to just trust God and he will provide but you don't say just trust God and he will protect. You know that is what I was talking about and your response was totally insincere.
Let me be a more specific. Why should we trust God to provide but not protect?
Also, women not working is the NTCCs and your man made rule because it is not biblical. In addition it is a double standard because we have had a witness right here on this blog who has said that NTCC ministers wives have kept jobs, inside and outside the home and they worked for pay.
So I am still looking for an answer. Why should we expect God to "provide" for us when we are willing to quit a job just so we can go to conference or not take a job because it conflicts with the NTCC schedule but we can't expect God to "protect" us against a measly exNTCC brother that "might" happen to come around the church?
Are you saying that God only has the ability to provide for us when we become passive but he doesn't have the ability to protect us when we become passive? Was I clear enough with the question this time?
Now while you are waiting for pdq could I get a sincere answer? By the way I wouldn't blame you if you didn't give me one because I quite effectively made my point already. The truth is you don't have a logical answer to my question and neither does anyone else in the NTCC because it is a double standard.
Trust God for one thing but not for another. Selective faith when it benefits the NTCCs agenda.
Jeff
I believe the national house hold income average is around $40,000.00 per year. Is this adequate?
NTCC Minister, I make that amount, actually more alone with the sweat of my own brow.
I would have to say that, no, it is NOT adequate. I should get paid more for the job I do. I honestly believe that. I am doing the job of a Drill Sergeant but I do not get any Special Duty pay for what I do, no extra clothing allowance, or no badge. Yet, the Army states that my job is one of the toughest jobs in the Army to do (Special Duty).
Money is not the answer to all things, God is. May I state having Money is better than NOT having money, if your blessed with more you can give to God More.
I would say, and I think that Jeff would agree, that 60 - 80K per year is adequate IF you've got everything else paid off AND you have a dedicated savings plan in place to keep some of the money for future use. Not bringing home the bacon causes much internal strife.
That is why I want to be a preacher not like you, but like MC Kekel. I want the luxery of blasting people over the pulpit, KNOWING that the money is comign in, storehouses of it, from unsuspecting GI Joes. I want to be a Millionaire and not have to worry about a thing. I want to be able to live in a manison, have women of married men over at my house to clean my house for free wearing cleaning aprons, and paying 20K of tithe payer money to send my son to a private school so he can play football. I want it all. In retrospect, I should have married Tonya and not Kekel!
But I did not. There is an old 1970's movie called the Daughters of Satan. I am not going to marry my way into perverted wealth. I am going to make money the old fashioned way: I am going to EARN it!!!!!
I do not want to keep up with the Jones'. I want to keep up with Jesus.
Bro Johnson
NTCC Minister B.S., M.A. said..."I believe the national house hold income average is around $40,000.00 per year. Is this adequate?"
As if any but a few NTCC's preachers make anywhere near this amount each year. What does the "national house hold (sic) income average" have to do with any NTCC preacher?
No longer an infidel In His Service,
pdq
NTCC BS MA said,
"Why introduce the imbalance into the home and family just to have more stuff. "
Taking care of your parent(s) and not allowing the government to be involved in taking care of a troubled under-aged sibling is not my idea of trying to acquire more stuff. The Bible mandates that we take care of our family, not the government.
I apologize that I wasn't working under someone's ministry or babysitting to make ends meet. I had to do something because my family was in dire straits. You can throw all the stones you want, I'll just make stone soup!
...thank you for understanding.
Nellashara
You need worry no longer! Obamacare is here!!!
NTCC B.S., M.A.
There is another China hit again...
Interesting, repeat Blog reader from the area!!!
Bro Johnson
You need worry no longer! Obamacare is here!!!
NTCC B.S., M.A.
Hey, Great Redirect.
Php 4:19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
{Are NTCC ministers trying to stir up hate every time they put out someone's private business over the pulpit in front of the entire congregation? "
1Ti 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
I'm not the one trying to claim that I am some great holy Christian who is going to save the world. I'm not even trying to act like a Christian or holy - Jeff
Don't quote to me scriptures about trusting God for money because I can quote a whole lot more scriptures about trusting God for protection!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Jeff
Please DO quote the scriptures Jeff
I can quote a whole lot more scriptures about trusting God for protection!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Jeff
So, aren't you guilty of trying to "protect"? After all, God is supposed to do it all right?
"Also, women not working is the NTCCs and your man made rule because it is not biblical....
Just another scam to get money out of people. "
Ok, now wait... If the women don't work, and we discourage overtime, double jobs, and not going to conference.... all of which bring in MORE money... how can you have your cake and eat it too?"
Hey IdahoeAngie looks like your blog proves you hypocritical
Exerpt from her blog
Friday, June 26, 2009
Off my Chest.
I AM SO SICK AND TIRED OF PEOPLE OF DIFFERENT CHRISTIAN FAITHS ARGUING OVER WHO'S BELIEF IS RIGHT OR WRONG......SO PLEASE READ WHAT I WROTE BELOW BECAUSE THIS IS HOW I FEEL ABOUT THAT!
Remember we are all human, no one is perfect, we all have faults. God put us here to please him and to lead others to him. Not debate or argue over who's religion is right, first, the true one, or better. In the end it won't matter. God is the one who will decide if you did right. Not your church, religious affiliation, priest, saint's, etc. Please keep that in mind when you go to condemn, put down, or tear apart a person who is not of the same faith as you. Be a Christian (Christ follower) not a condemner (thats not your job anyways).
Posted by IdahoAngie at 7:03 PM 0 comments
I don't have a a title,ntcc member,baptist,Methodist,Catholic..
It boils down to what your Relationship with Jesus Christ. Not what Church you belong to.
CM
I don't have a a title,ntcc member,baptist,Methodist,Catholic..
It boils down to what your Relationship with Jesus Christ. Not what Church you belong to.
CM
Well Said, and with that I would add a statement from the Lord
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Anonymous said...
So, aren't you guilty of trying to "protect"? After all, God is supposed to do it all right?
Jeff said...
I don't stand behind a pulpit trying to make my church members feel guilty for working, going to a Doctor, or protecting themselves. The NTCC is notorious for such antics.
The point that I was making is that NTCC Ministers routinely tell there church members to do foolish things like quit jobs that interfere with NTCC's schedule or simply not take jobs that require them to work on Sat or Sun. They ask, "Don't you trust God to provide" "Don't you have enough faith to trust that God can provide"? "Why keep that job that has you working while you "should" be soul winning"? "God can give you a better job"?
Here is my point. If we are supposed to cast all of our cares on God where employment is concerned and simply quit jobs that don't line up with the NTCCs schedule, than why don't we simply put our weapons down and cast our cares on God for protection?
Because you NTCC guys are a bunch of double standard hypocrites, that's why.
Jeff
Anonymous abusive NTCC minister quoted...
1Ti 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
Jeff quoted...
Half the stuff that you abusive NTCC ministers blast people about isn't sin to start with. Like woman working on a job! Or like someone working on Saturday because they need to provide for their family! You would rather have them become an infidel according to the scripture than provide for their family. Secondly, have you considered any other scriptures or just the ones that support your abusive nature?
Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
Jeff said...
I prefer the later scripture because I am not an abusive jerk like you. I've seen you NTCC guys at work behind the pulpit. You guys just can't wait to blast someone having never even considering Gal 6:1 before you do it.
Here is another one: Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
Jeff said...
No you would rather go in front of the whole congregation and put out all his business because you are abusive cowards like I always say. You NTCC guys are control mongers. "BLAST EM".
You would rather openly humiliate someone because it makes you feel big to hide behind your pulpit.
Jeff
Anonymous said...
Please DO quote the scriptures Jeff
Jeff said...
In this case I don't plan to quote scriptures. Despite the fact that you were polite, I don't plan to march to your beat. If you spent any time in the NTCC you know the scriptures just as well as I do. You know they exist and there are many of them which direct us to trust God for protection.
Am agree that we should protect ourselves, but don't teach that we don't need to trust God protect us but we do need to trust God to provide for us. Once again you can't have it both ways. You know what I am talking about. Don't keep trying to confuse the issue while being insincere.
Jeff
Php 4:19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
Anonymous,
Wrong! Your god Kekel will not supply all your need according to his riches which he took from you claiming that God has been good to him.
Try another scripture, maybe you'll get lucky!
MLJ
1Ti 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
Anonymous,
OK - hear goes: I REBUKE YOU!!! There, there...how does it feel to be rebuked in cyberspace?
Kekel: I rebuke you!!
Davis: I double rebuke you!!
MLJ
There is another hit from China again!!
Wonder who that can be???
Bro Johnson
That BLOG post was aimed at NTCC telling everyone their wrong...telling everyone that all other churches are wrong. telling everyone if they leave NTCC their wrong well guess what.....
THEIR NOT WRONG... NTCC IS! NTCC IS SO FAR FROM GOD IT IS NOT EVEN FUNNY AND THEY ARE SO BLINDED BY IT THEY DON'T EVEN SEE IT..Who in NTCC follows after God instead of Davis or their Pastor?
Do you go running to God when you have a problem or see something wrong or do you run to Davis or your pastor?
Do you think for yourself or do you let others tell you how to act, live, dress, when to sleep, when to eat, when to go soul winning, when to work, when not to work. etc?
Sorry NTCC is very much a cult. And I feel sorry for the people who are stuck in it who don't even realize it. I pray they get out as soon as they can. That God will open their eyes to the mental and spiritual abuse as well as the daily contradictions. Because guess what???? NONE of that crap goes on in the church I attend now. NONE OF IT! And thats how it's supposed to be.
But if you like to have your every stinking move, breath, etc. controlled more power to you!
GOD IS NOT LIKE THAT PEOPLE! WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO REALIZE THAT GOD IS NOT A DICTATOR? WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO REALIZE THAT HE KNOWS WE ARE HUMAN AND HE KNOWS WE ERR AND HE STILL CARES FOR US? WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO REALIZE THAT? GOD IS NOT GOING TO LEAVE YOU IF YOU LEAVE NTCC. HE ISN'T GOING TO LEAVE YOU IF YOU WEAR PANTS, CUT YOUR HAIR, WEAR MAKEUP, WEAR JEWELERY, HAVE A REAL JOB, WORK WHERE YOU WANT TO WORK, SUPPORT YOUR FAMILY, ETC.
He isn't going to kick you to the curb because of some STUPID MAN MADE RULES! Stop trying to please man and try pleasing GOD for once.
God put on this earth to worship and please him. He DID NOT put us on this earth to please others. DO WHAT GOD TELLS YOU STOP LISTENING TO DAVIS AND HIS LIES.
The truth?? Davis at one point I am sure was right with God, but sometime between now and then he let the devil corrupt him. It isn't my fault you choose to worship the ground he walks on, trip over your feet to clean his house, and get his admiration. Got news for you.. he doesn't even care for the people that kiss his feet.
LEAVE NOW WHILE YOU STILL HAVE YOUR DIGNITY AND YOUR FAITH IN GOD! DON'T LET A MAN TELL YOU HOW TO LIVE.
GET OFF YOUR EVER LOVING BUTTS AND READ YOUR BIBLE AND STUDY IT FOR YOURSELF IF YOU DARE! ASK QUESTIONS IF YOU DARE! DAVIS IS JUST A PAWN IN THE DEVILS GAME. EVIL TO THE VERY BONE. SO STUCK IN HIS WAYS...IF JESUS WAS TO WALK IN HIS CHURCH HE WOULD KICK HIM OUT FOR LONG HAIR, BEARD, ETC. ALONG WITH A GOOD AMOUNT OF OTHER NTCC "PASTORS."
WHAT I POSTED ON MY BLOG WAS ABOUT NTCC! So before you go judging maybe you should remember just how abusive, controling, damaging, hurtful, unforgiving, unloving, and unbiblical NTCC is before you go judging my post. NTCC is a C-U-L-T and now amount of sugar coating and butt kissing Kekel and Davis is going to change that. Kekel may be changing this but he is just changing things so people are more blinded. He is hiding things more carefully from view. He is dressing it up making it look beautiful and you all are falling for it. When all it is is the same ol crap that has been going on in NTCC for MANY MANY years! Its just dresed in a disguise to fool you yet again. But if you want to be fooled... more power too you! I'm done with it!
Jeff,
This is for you!
James 1:12 Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.
Romans 12:2 Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to rest and approve what God's will is-his good, pleasing and perfect will.
Definition of renewing: to revive, reestablish, to recover, restored, rejuvenate, regenerate, reinstate, mend, repair.
QUESTION: HOW CAN YOU FEEL RENEWED, REVIVED, REESTABLISHED, RECOVERED, RESTORED, REJUVENATED, REGENERATED, REINSTATED, MENDED, OR REPAIRED WHEN YOU ARE CONSTANTLY BEING TORE DOWN, TOLD HOW TO LIVE , TOLD YOUR NOT GOOD ENOUGH, TOLD YOUR USELESS, TOLD THAT IF YOU LEAVE NTCC YOUR LEAVING GOD? HOW CAN YOU FEEL ALL THOSE THINGS WHEN YOU HEAR FROM THE PULPIT ABOUT PEOPLE WHO HAVE LEFT AND THEY ARE ALL NEGATIVE THINGS, ALL LIES? (MINUS THE I.H.O.P EXPERIENCE). HOW CAN YOU FEEL RENEWED WHEN YOUR PASTOR EMBARASSES YOU INFRONT OF THE CHURCH ON A REGULAR BASIS, PUTS YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION OUT FOR EVERYONE TO KNOW (AND YOU KNOW AS WELL AS I DO THAT IF ANYONE IN THE CHURCH KNOWSY YOU WELL ENOUGH THEY WILL KNOW THE PASTOR IS TALKING ABOUT YOU AND THEN RUMORS AND GOSSIP WILL START TO FLY), HOW CAN YOU EVEN HAVE SELF CONFIDENCE IN YOURSELF WHEN EVERYTHING THEY TEACH IS TEARING YOU DOWN? MAKING YOU FEEL USELESS. MAKING YOU FEEL SO BAD THAT YOU ARE AT CHURCH EVERY CHANCE YOU GET BECAUSE YOU THINK YOUR GOING TO HELL IF YOU MISS ONE STUPID LITTLE PRAYER MEETING, SOUL WINNING MEETING, BIBLE STUDY, ETC?
NOT ONE OF YOU CAN TELL ME YOU LIKE TO BE TREATED LIKE THAT AND NOT ONE OF YOU CAN TELL ME THAT YOU FEEL RENEWED WHILE DEALING WITH THE CRAP NTCC DISHES OUT ON A MINUTE BY MINUTE BASIS AND IF YOU SAY YOU FEEL RENEWED AFTER ALL THE CRAP YOU GO THROUGH AND HAVE SEEN OTHERS GO THROUGH THEN YOU ARE LYING NOT ONLY TO GOD BUT TO YOURSELF.
1Corinthians 3:13 His work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work.
Davis' "work" and Kekels "work" along with other corrupt Pastors in ntcc are being exposed for what it is. Thanks to people like me who have decided to stand up and expose the crap we went through.
I am eternally greatful for this blog as well as others exposing NTCC. And I Hope they keep it up. And when they decide they are done with it. I Hope they past the torch to someone else who will keep it up. I hope NTCC is exposed for what it is on a daily basis until their doors close.
Galations 6:4 Each one should test his own actions. THen he can take pride in himself, without comparing himself to somebody else.
1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test everything. Hold on to the good.
2 Corinthians 13:5 Examing yourselves to see wheather you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you-unless, of course, you fail the test?
1 John 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see wheather they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Since someone will come along and try to twist this last scripture I posted... I will explain ..when it talks about testing the spirits it is talking about testing a person who is moved by a spirit, whether by the Holy Spirit or an evil one. It does not refer to testing or judgement. It is talking about SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS and moral judgment of others...(no person who has morals will treat people the way Davis and countless other NTCC preachers do). Back in bible days the Prophets were the preachers. So Davis lables himself a preacher. So the dude is a false prophet. Get used to it. Even demons confess that Christ has come in the flesh. And yes a person can be demon possessed I don't care if you believe it to be true or if your one of those "I'll believe it when I see it" types of people. It is possible and it still happens to this day. It wasn't just a bible times happening.
Davis may not be demon possessed but he is definately being influenced by them.
2Co 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.
Rom 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
Jas 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
Php 4:19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
So then Jeff, do these two scriptures contradict each other? One says God will provide, the other says the man should provide.
Pro 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.
Pro 24:7 Wisdom is too high for a fool: he openeth not his mouth in the gate.
Pro 17:12 Let a bear robbed of her whelps meet a man, rather than a fool in his folly.
Pro 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
Pro 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.
James 1:12 Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him. - Angy to Jeff
Wait, wouldn't he have to under attack to perserver? But I seem to remember this is Jeff's blog and HE is on the attack.
SO AGAIN... If we are after the money, why DO we teach men about a balanced work life that places GOD First, and that married women should guide the house... We should be doing just the opposite if money were the motive because that would bring in more money.....
Riddle me this?
Your the ones screaming about "Tithe", Money, Let me work where I want, as Long as I want. Your the ones putting the emphasis on who has what, and why don't I have more. You point an accusing finger at us and say "Money grubbers" when the whole time you have 3 incriminating fingers point back at yourself...
Anon: 90% of your church members are living below the poverty level because they are forced to be at every meeting (guilt tripped into it) and don't even tell me their not.. They have to have jobs that work around NTCC's schedule or they are ridiculed.. The ones that have money are at the top of the NTCC food chain. Or their not really IN (which is good) or they do what they want anyways (which is good).
They are not living in poverty because of their own bad decisions they are scared to think or do for themselves how they should because of all the yelling and guilt trips that are thrown out, because of all the "calling them out" from the pulpit, embarassing them in front of the entire church. Don't even give me that lie that it doesn't happen because it happened to me, I saw it happen to others, and I hear the same story from everyone who has since left and oh my GOD I have never met any of these people in person as far as I know and I don't talk to any of them outside of this blog.. cept to say I have called Jeff once to talk to him about something that had NOTHING to do with this blog. I have yet to call him since even though I say I am going to.
Poking a fire thats already hot isn't a good idea because I am all game for a debate right now.
Keep drinking your koolaide obviously its laced with something!
RIDDLE ME THAT!
Anonymous asked...
SO AGAIN... If we are after the money, why DO we teach men about a balanced work life that places GOD First, and that married women should guide the house... We should be doing just the opposite if money were the motive because that would bring in more money.....
Riddle me this?
Jeff said...
This is no riddle. The answer is obvious and one that I have already answered time and time again. It's about "controlling" women and it's about using women to help grow the church which will ultimately bring more money than permitting them to work. You take one woman who doesn't work and she brings ten people to church, 2 of which start paying tithe. Where would you get more money? From the woman all by her self or all the people that she brought to church because of her soul winning. That is why so many pastors that I had, tried to get the women to go soul winning during the day and do chores for the church during the day.
It's simple business. How do you grow a business? With people. The NTCC is notorious for having women do just about everything and anything. It's a trade off. The NTCC would rather have all these women doing menial labor like cleaning Kekels house, going soul winning during the day, doing chores around the church, picking up church supplies, picking up other women for womans Bible study, teaching Sunday school and so on. RWD wants the women under control and that means more to him than the extra money that would come into the church because of their tithe. It's about control.
I have said all along it's about "two" things and if you would read and remember and be sincere you would have known the answer.
"CONTROL and MONEY" in that order. Many NTCC ministers are just like RWD and Kekel. They are control freaks. Control is more important to a control freak than money is. It's a fact.
Not only that, it's not even Biblical to teach that a woman can work on a job. Come up with a harder riddle next time.
You can't trip me up.
Jeff
Anonymous said...
"Your the ones screaming about "Tithe", Money, Let me work where I want, as Long as I want. Your the ones putting the emphasis on who has what, and why don't I have more. You point an accusing finger at us and say "Money grubbers" when the whole time you have 3 incriminating fingers point back at yourself..."
Jeff said...
Wrong again. We are the ones who are emphasizing the need to provide for our family and if that means working on Saturday there should be no reason not to. What? Are you going to be a soul winning infidel while your family goes broke? I know of an NTCC minister who was looking for a job very recently who said that he could not work on the weekends. That's ok, don't work on the weekends and in the process keep looking for work and don't take care of your family.
You can be a broke infidel if you want but that's not for me. I would rather take care of my family than a broke infidel. If that means missing a service or soul winning than so be it.
Jeff
Anonymous said...
1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
Php 4:19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
So then Jeff, do these two scriptures contradict each other? One says God will provide, the other says the man should provide.
Jeff said...
To easy. If I do my part, God will pickup the slack. That wasn't too hard! Stop trying to trip me up you Pharisees. You are just like the religious people of Christ's day. Always trying to catch him in a snare.
Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?
You are a hypocrite Pharisee.
Jeff
By the way. Once again, being that I am an honest broker I will tell you the rest of the story. The supposed bolo badge brother is more than a bolo badge brother. I verified that there is a police officer in the church in question. So it's highly likely that he is the one who is carrying the gun and quite legal.
The pastor only told me that one of the brothers brought a gun to church because they were worried about someone who he had kicked out of the church. No need to disagree with the pastor for kicking the man out of his church because he can kick anyone he wants out of his church. Frankly I have to side with the pastor this time because the brother should have left before it even got that far. Why stay with a pastor that you don't get along with anyway. I don't like this particular pastor one bit but it is his right to kick someone out of his church. He did them both a favor when he made that decision. When you stick around a church where you know you are not wanted anyway you are just being a trouble maker and that's the way I see it.
Jeff
Jeff,
Let me see if I understand your honest brokering(???)
You initiated a thread about NTCC pastors running scared based on a conversation you had with a pastor who let the cat out of the bag that he had a brother carry a gun to church because of exNTCC people.
111 posts later you then reveal that the brother very well may be a police officer and that the threat was one of a specific nature rather than all exNTCC people in general.
You further agree with the mans position.
So, were you finding fault for the sake of finding fault? I do not understand why you initiated this thread. Did you go off half-cocked? (pun intended)
NTCC Minister B.S., M.A.
Jeff,
If Jesus Christ himself with thousands of his angels appeared to NTCC minister in question in person they still would not belive the
JOKE / CULT
That is NTCC.
V/R
Bro Johnson
Jeff,
In fact, NTCC Minister in question would run Jesus and His angels off (if they could) and show Him and them the door, and then yell,
"Don't let the door hit you from behind".
Jesus on his way out of the door, being all knowledgeable would ensure that He did not trip over a dead cat...
But the homeless man outside of the Church that NTCC rejected would follow Jesus and get saved!!
Bro Johnson
...But the saved man, after jumping up and down and praising the Lord as he saw Jesus asending back up into heaven with ten thousand of His angels later dies after getting shot by a brother for tresspassing in the church parking lot...
and Davis, who is sleeping in the RV parked next to the church since he is too good to actually attend the church service, wakes up, falls back asleep and turns to his left side, falling dead in sin asleep again.
Bro Johnson
The sad part is,
I could actually envision this scene happening!!
It's really funny, when your "In" NTCC looking out, it is like the devil and the world are fighting against you,
but when you are on the outside of the fishbowl looking in, you notice that all the fish that are inside the fishbowl are trapped!!!
You know what happens when you take a fish out of their fishbowl? They belly up and die, floating upside down in the water.
Bro Johnson
NTCC Minister...
I found out "today" that there is in fact a brother in the church who is a police officer. Now whether or not that is the brother who carries the gun in the church I don't know, but I would obviously expect so. It would be the logical answer. Now that doesn't change the validity of the title to my thread. Folks are running scared.
Whether the brother is an officer or not doesn't change the fact that exNTCCers are scared of NTCCers and visa versa. It also doesn't change the fact that the pastor told me that the reason they have an armed brother in the church is because they are worried about the guy they kicked out of the church.
I don't blame the pastor for kicking the guy out of the church. That's his prerogative. Whether I like him or not, it's his church, and he can kick anyone out he wants, whether it is for legitimate reasons or not.
It is still sad that the NTCC promotes a situation that puts fear in ex-members while at the same time the NTCC simultaneously fears the ex-members. There is something wrong with that picture hence the title to my thread and the content. I have never been in another church where that happened and I have been in quite a few others for a good period of time.
The gun didn't get pulled too soon if you would effectively "read" what is written on the cover of this blog under, "Folks are running scared" The only place that the gun got pulled to soon happened further on in the thread when I said that if they are going to have someone with a gun it should be security and not some gun toting brother. The brother is not just some gun toting brother as far as I can tell. I believe he is a police officer because of the information that I got "today".
There you have it. I am an honest broker. A whole lot more honest than every yes man NTCC Minister that I ever met. How many times has an NTCC Minister ever come on here or anywhere else and admitted that we are right? You did once but you are still very one sided. You find it almost impossible to admit that we all make valid points on this blog and a whole lot of them. Testimony after testimony referring to abusive after abusive committed by NTCC ministers.
Jeff
"CONTROL and MONEY" - Jeff
Control and money, ok... so lets see. We keep the women off of the job so they can go out and find other people that have a job and bring them to church so that we can get them to pay tithe....
First seems pretty stupid to send out women during the day to find people working on a job when they will be on the job and not able to make contact with them.
Second, even if they do come to church less than 1 in 20 that come to church will actually get to the level where they stay in the church, and even fewer will get to the place where they pay tithe.
And even IF these zealots of the faith get oodles of their fellow compatriots to come to church they have to get them to swallow the Holiness Pill, and ALL that intails, before they can ever HOPE to see them put their little white envelope into the church coffers... and well You know first hand that it normally ends LONG before they are Tilly the TIthe Payer.
So, it stands to reason that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Why not put the women on a job (we could of course do this in a typical Controlling fashion by ordering them to find jobs) and then command them to pay their tithe. These dumb women will of course do it because they are controlled by the cult mentality. The stupid hubby's are paying tithe already, and now they the dumb brides will pay tithe too.
Oh, and on another note, if it's the money why don't we embrace the modern church ideal of selling tapes, books, holding concerts, passion plays, selling tickets to watch your own pastor (Joel Olsteen does this). Why don't we throw mens meatings and charge registration fees. Or couples seminars, or Dave Ramsey seminars where the community can come in. Why don't we have Basketball competitions and yout rallies that would attrack big crowed of stupid, plyable, skulls full of mush (thanks Rush).... In short, why don't we use the techneques that the churches of the world have found to be so lucrative and productive. Why not throw Holiness under the bus like Obama did his grandma so that we can keep more people (don't say control because this is a means of control - giving people what they want).
Now, as for the husband and ordering them to quit jobs to go to conference who are we talking about Joe member, Joe preacher or Joe Mamma (had to get that little tickler in there)? Seems I've always been told conference is for ministers, their wives, bible school students, and the military (but we can't tell them to quit their jobs). I've even been to conferences where the morning services were restricted to ONLY those catagories of people I mentioned. CHurch members, average Joes, are not requried to go and are not told to quit and if you want to truly be an Honest Broker you will admit that.
People that aspire to tell other people about faith are and rightly so. Why tell you put God first if I the preacher can't do it? Get my drift.
I don't need to trip you up Jeff, you stumble along all by yourself.
Oh, and one more thing... if teaching Sunday School (as you mentioned) is a way of controlling women you need to warn IdahoeAngie that she's being controlled because that Cult of a church is using her for a Praise Team..ha ha.. I always get a chuckle when I say that term... and as an Usherette (when needed of course - Hey Ida we need to to Ush this morning), and 2 times a month teaching Childrens Programs..... bad bad cult, for shame using this poor woman in such an abusive and controlling manner.
Serious question, why do we (NTCC) see so many people COME BACK after years of their "Freedom"?
really? like whom?
Anonymous said...
I don't need to trip you up Jeff, you stumble along all by yourself.
Jeff said...
You were very ineffective at tripping me up. You only attempted to dispel one of the reasons that I mentioned as to why the NTCC keeps women off of the job. We all know that you could use the bible as a reason you controllers keep women off the job because there are no scriptures to support your self made mandate.
Also I don't agree with your analysis anyway. You have been brainwashed by the NTCC so long that you've forgotten that many normal people do in fact work on the weekend and as a result can be reached during the week. Why else would your very own pastors try to convince the women you control to go out soul winning during the week? You are the one who just got tripped up at your very own game. Check!
Also according to your warped logic, if statistically you only reach 1 in 20, and the women (because many people are working) only talk to 100 people per week, that is still five people reached that will at least come to church and visit. In the course of a year that is over 250 people who even you sorry pastors have a chance at turning into tithe payers. Bird in the hand? I would rather have the 250 in the bush, but what surprises me is that RWD, who understands the "business" of soul winning very well never got that point through to "YOU". Checkmate!!
I guess you weren't a very good student at RWDs Cracker Jack school of rules that is worth nothing. Just the other day an NTCC pastor asked me if I ever pastored a church. What I should have asked him was, does he consider the lame non accredited credentials that the NTCC provides, able to qualify him to be a pastor at all? After all the NTCC pastors that I have seen bumble around I would say "NOT". I could start a school at my house and provide a transcript as valid as the NTCCs, and produce better pastors than the NTCC does.
I would make sure that I didn't have a bunch of money hungry control freaks running around, you can be sure of that.
Tripped up, I don't think so. You still haven't showed me in the bible where it says that women can't work anyway and why? Because it doesn't exist.
Jeff
Anonymous said...
Serious question, why do we (NTCC) see so many people COME BACK after years of their "Freedom"?
Jeff said...
Because the one thing that you guys do quite well is brainwash folks just like yourself. I won't be coming back through your doors and you can be certain of that.
Jeff
As far as Angie teaching Sunday school. Her church doesn't teach that woman can't work on a job. Women not being allowed to work on a job is one of the NTCC false doctrines. Angies church operates according to a whole different standard. Not a double standard where a woman is controlled into doing everything humanly imaginable for the church but refused the option of working, (unless you are Tanya Kekel or one the select sisters that they NTCC makes an exception to the rule for.
Angie's church doesn't try and control everyone and specifically the women like the NTCC does.
That was easy.
Jeff
NTCCers, and NTCC's ruling families, point toward other churches and say:
"Look at other churches, we are not like them."
Then they get uncomfortable (predictably, and right on schedule) from the light of their own testimony being shined too long upon them, so they point toward other churches and say:
"Look at other churches, we are just like them."
pdq
this crazy ntcc'er shows us what they are being told.... so kekel tells everyone lies about motives and methods of people who no longer attend ntcc which as a result, keeps people in and makes the real christians seem crazy.
davis doesn't need to sell tickets and tapes and books. he already has a real estate program that is more profitable than the little stuff. many churches don't have an internationally based real estate system set up so they do sell tapes and books.
the only reason people "come back" is because they think NTCC holds the keys to the kingdom and need the pope kekel and pope olsen to allow them entrance into heaven.
HA! they even have to ask them if they can return and are allowed to come back !
They dont realize that salvation is found in Jesus. I read in a book somewhere where it says let God be true and every man a liar.
Posted by DTH
They dont realize that salvation is found in Jesus. I read in a book somewhere where it says let God be true and every man a liar. - Amen AMen
So
Tit 2:5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Bad ole Paul trying to control women so.,.....
And Jeff...
Your math is fuzzy, I said Less than 1 in 20. At your rate of addition our churches should be overflowing with people. Busting at the seams....
You conveniently dodged my point so I will make it plain for your simple mind to grasp....
It is EASIER to get the people we have to all work on a job and pay money in because we know they will do it (easier) then waiting the months, years, and in some cases decades it takes for other to get in and "get R done".
Be honest now Jeff, you've touted your honest brokering as a badge of honor so you have to admit it's true.
Jeff, can we please move on?
This is getting way too looong, okay everybody and their mother put their 2 cents worth, so please, pretty please, move on and start another thread.
thank you.
Opal
Serious question, why do we (NTCC) see so many people COME BACK after years of their "Freedom"?
ANOn you walked right into this one.lol
What did the Isrealite's want to do When Moses took them out of Eygpt? They cried and wanted to go back to the slave driver's!
I can see people that get out from under ntcc CONTROL. And get overwhelmed. They then go back to having it all decicded for them. It is easier to be in ntcc then on the outside. Where you REALLY have to let God Lead you and your decisions. It is AWESOME being a true Christian. Where I am a free moral agent. Not a brainwashed cult member. Where I live to kiss up to the 'leader" and there wive's. As if there so much better then me,NOT! We are ALL EQUAL!! Guess what,I am EQUAL to RW Davis. I am EQUAL to Mike K. And Tanya K. And Verna Davis!!! Nothing exceptional about them AT ALL. Except there good scam artist's!
Folks that are in ntcc. Get out. Do not be afraid. You will make stronger and TRUE friends that are not your friends only because your a Ntcc member. Talk about conditional love!
Those of you on the outside. Keep listening to God. He can direct you and your decisions and direction in life. RW is not on the right hand of God! He CAN NOT SEE INTO YOUR SOUL!!
Don't be like the Isrealite's and want to go back being a SLAVE. You are a SLAVE for rw and Mk. To fund there FANCY lifestyle's!!
CM
"Why not throw Holiness under the bus.."
You already have thrown holiness under the bus with various rule/policy changes.
ns
so the verses you posted said a woman shouldn't teach.
so why does kekels wife teach ?
Anonymous said...
It is EASIER to get the people we have to all work on a job and pay money in because we know they will do it (easier) then waiting the months, years, and in some cases decades it takes for other to get in and "get R done".
Be honest now Jeff, you've touted your honest brokering as a badge of honor so you have to admit it's true.
Jeff said...
I already was honest. I don't agree with you. Guys like RWD, Kekel, Mayers, Ramirez have to be in control. They want women to do what "they" want them to do. They don't want the women to exercise independence. That is why Kekel has other men's wives clean his house. It is abusive and it gives Kekel the feeling of power and control. Why else would you have your church members (of all people) to clean your house?
When women aren't working the NTCC pastors and their wives are constantly trying to get the unemployed women to do everything you could imagine to include as I have said for third time, "SOUL WINNING". You are the one who is not being honest. I couldn't even count or remember all the times that an NTCC pastor tried to get someones wife to go soul winning during the day. They did it to my wife all the time. Mayers always wanted to plan something for my wife to do during the day. Pick up church supplies, paint the daycare room, pick up women for women's bible study, practice the piano, practice singing and on and on and on.
You are not being sincere and because of that I am not going to entertain your repeated questioning any longer. The NTCC is about two things, "CONTROL & MONEY".
Jeff
Anonymous wrote and quoted....
They dont realize that salvation is found in Jesus. I read in a book somewhere where it says let God be true and every man a liar. - Amen AMen
So
Tit 2:5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
Jeffs response to this scripture...
"Keepers are home" means to be domestically inclined and a good house keeper. I looked it up. It certainly does not mean that a women can't have a job. Domestically inclined refers to someone who has the "tendency to spend time around the house". That does not mean that a women can't leave the house. If that is the case than a woman can't leave to go to church, or teach at NTCCs school like Tanya, or go soul winning. Being a good house keeper doesn't mean that a women can't have a job either. Can you spell false doctrine NTCC folks?
1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
Jeffs response to that scripture...
I guess the NTCC failed that test. Tanya Kekel ought to try that one.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Jeffs response to that scripture...
I guess the NTCC failed that test also. Tanya Kekel certainly failed at that one little miss teacher. What a joke.
Bad ole Paul trying to control women so.,.....
Jeff said...
Bad ole NTCC not even attempting to following two of the three scriptures you quoted while thoroughly misinterpreting the third. You were really not very smart when you posted those three scriptures. The NTCC wants to throw those scriptures at all the woman except Tanya Kekel and a few select other women who are part of the family. It's nepotism and double standards and hypocrisy and anyone who has a brain and isn't afraid to use it can see it plain as day.
Jeff
that a woman should fulfill the scriptures and be the keeper of the home is controlling. Just wonder if you would also
OH dear ANON. The lust for money is right within your ranks. RW and his MANSION! Mike K. with his BASKETBALL court in his backyard. Talk about richy rich! Who has the lust for money???
And dear delusional man. Who within your ranks is a woman that A JOB?? TANYA K. Has a job and she is paid. Is she a keeper of her home? Or is many women in ntcc the keeper of her hom and Yard? Take her out of the fake college teaching. So she can at least clean her own home!!
CM
rw wants women stuck in the role of the 1960's. Verna teaches the woman to make sure supper is ready when the man gets home. Make sure his shirts are starched. Kids look nice on almost NO money to buy them cloths. Even talk about getting grimy dirt out of the white shirt collars. Get those ugle three color dresses. taught to have white,black and off white dresses.
Keep the woman bland,pasty skin,long dead ends hair,cloths that come from kook store's.
All to keep woman in there place. Yes,rw could have more money if woman worked. But then they would be using there brains. And that fog that so thick while in ntcc. Would start to lift.
Stuck at home,cooking,cleaning. Perfect betty crocker wife!
CM
so the verses you posted said a woman shouldn't teach.
so why does kekels wife teach ?
ANON, since you attend NTCC, that would seem like a perfect question for you to ask Kekel!!
Bro Johnson
***CRICKETS***
I have been reading some of these posts, and someone was wondering where they may be hiding the gun...I can tell you where! Probably one of those rotund sisters, is hiding it in her underwear! And if thiongs get out of control, she just flips up her dress, and pulls it out, and starts to unload (LOL) The more I envision that the harder I laugh!
But seriously; with the previous post laid aside...NTCC is nothing but paranoia!
1. RW is surrounded by guards outside of his house.
2. RW is guarded by two different gates/plus the guards.
3. Guards outside of each church service, with walkie talkies!
4. Everyone that lives on campus has their mail sent to the 930 PO Box...WHY?...so it can be sifted through by the office staff.
5. People are encouraged to tattle on each other, so the "rats/non-conformists can be weeded out.
6. Oh I forgot...RW not only has 2 gates, several guards but an alarm system also...Why so nervous Roger? Afraid of the boogy man? Or he might be afraid of someone coming to settle a score....let's see maybe having their family ruined, or their marriage broken up, or their life destryed from his erroneous teachings!...who knows?
7. How could I forget? How about the massive fence that surrounds the entire compound of the cult, that tells everyone in the entire community..."Were a CULT!!!" You are not welcome HERE at our CULT!!!!"
8. What about the initials before all of the accredited ministers names...I'm sorry did I say accredited? NTCS is not accredited! Hey all you loser graduated from the 2009 class...the three years that you spent listening to all of those dry classes; that blank piece of paper that you held on graduation night, that was supposed to be your diploma...thatis all you got to show for all of your time, and money!! A blank piece of paper.
Anyway more later the paranoia list is to long; more later!
Diamond Dave said...
4. Everyone that lives on campus has their mail sent to the 930 PO Box...WHY?...so it can be sifted through by the office staff.
Jeff said...
Really? I didn't know that. Does RWD in fact have guards outside his house? If that is the case I didn't know that either. I knew about the gates but not the guards.
Wow.
Jeff
Jeff Collins said...
Diamond Dave said...
4. Everyone that lives on campus has their mail sent to the 930 PO Box...
***************
Jeff,
That statement is true it is in the
NTCC Seminary Handbook.
Speaking as a minister's wife, who is still in NTCC, I have to say that bringing a gun to church to a horrible idea. What is the person bringing the gun or someone else goes postal? Honestly, if I could leave this org. I would. I'm just waiting for my husband to see that he can still preach outside of NTCC. How can we in NTCC not be scared when Rev. Davis said that conference that if NTCC compromised he prayed that God kill the one's who made the decision. That's not word for word but I have my notes and could look it up. My husband said that Rev. Davis was joking but he was not!!!! There was no laughing, etc. after what he said. Never Harm
Sister, I hope everything works out for you. I referred to you as "Sister" because of course I don't know who you are. I generally don't call women "Sister" any longer but I guess in this case it is applicable. I hope your husband sees the light. It certainly would help you guys get on with your life.
Your husband could do so much more for God if he wasn't in the NTCC. Of that fact I am convinced. Not that is it all about money but the money that folks do give in your church could stay in your church. They say RWD pays tithes but that is like him taking money out of one account and depositing it into another both of which are his. That is why he was able to take 39 acres of land that he had put in the NTCCs name and gift it to Mike Kekel. RWD can do whatever he wants with NTCC property. The NTCC is ultimately his corporation so any money that RWD gives to the church, he still has ultimate control over anyway.
Your husband could do the same thing and build his own church and fund his own building to be used by the church members. Then he would be in control of it, not the NTCC. Lets face it, that is what RWD did. Can you really blame him. I prefer to be in control of my life as well. I don't support RWDs methods and ways but I don't blame the guy for wanting to have exclusive control of his life and corporation.
The NTCC is just like the Catholic church in that respect. The individual priests never own any of the Catholic real-estate and neither do pastors in the NTCC. All their hard work goes directly into RWDs corporation and to a lesser degree into Kekels back pocket and into Grants education. I wouldn't fund another dime of that mess. I have my own kids to take care of.
Once again, I hope it works out for you Sister.
Jeff
Thank you, Jeff. It certainly isn't about the money. My husband forgets to take up the offering most of the time. LOL He never pushes about money. He tells the church that it's a faith church and people should give what God puts on their heart, but don't give so much that it hurts them. He told me that he doesn't belive all the rules, etc. but when he prayed for a church many years ago, as a GI, God sent a brother his way. Because of that he says he won't leave NTCC until God tells him to. He doesn't keep things from the church. They know what we have in the bank account. It's their money after all. We have helped some people who needed money, toys at Christmas, etc. He doesn't preach about how people should dress, etc. He preaches Christ. We are certainly not the typical NTCC church. Never Harm
Never harm: Sounds like you guys are doing some good things. If the NTCC is really not a problem with you guys and you basically work autonomously, what are your grievances? I know that you didn't agree with RWD saying that he would pray that Gods judgement would come down on any compromiser's. I thought that was kind of absurd also.
Jeff
Jeff,
Pastor Davis also has a video surveillance system that monitors the outside of his Mansion. The bank of four TV screens is in his bedroom, slightly toward the left as you walk into it. This system was installed when his Mansion was built, so it is over ten years old.
His Mansion is also equipped with a small secret 'room' (you'd never find it if you didn't already know it was there), who's contents will also allow for a few people to hide in there.
Pastor Davis is definitively one who is prepared for any threat (real or imagined), and has made preparations for every eventuality.
pdq
Jeff,
My problem is the control factor. All these years things were "sins" and now they aren't. Supposedly they never were to be taught, that the ministers messed up, etc. At conference after conference we were told the same things that these ministers told us. We are to believe that nothing has changed. What's the worst is that most people in NTCC are believing it. I know of others who feel like I do.
Never Harm
Never harm said...
I know of others who feel like I do.
Never Harm.
Jeff said...
That is good to know. That means the word is getting out. Once again you are appreciated on this blog. Lots of people have wasted many years of their life in the NTCC and folks like you and I can make a difference and bring out the truth, and just maybe some more NTCC folks can get their life back. The NTCC leadership is so thoroughly crooked. What you see clearly should be obvious to everyone. That's why this blog is here. These blogs are a big help in getting out the truth.
Jeff
Now when I say guards I mean on a 24/7 basis there are people posted right outside of his house inside of the bonco compound where Davis lives. I didn't know about the video surveillance system or secret room. WOW! This guy is paranoid....WHY??? WHY??? It's because of all of the people that he has hurt. You people that are still in NTCCC why is your head Pastor so scared/paranoid? Stop and think about this! Anyway if someone really wanted to get to Davis it would actually be quite easy; I can think of several ways......
I'm glad I'm not the only one with those things in my heart.
You don't know the good that you are doing to me "never harm"
a.p.w.
This thread needs to be brought back up. I've even touched on the fact of how surprised I am that a Columbine hasn't happened at a church.
I'm sure every year they have more and more people packing heat because of the devastation they've caused.
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