Thread #62There are certainly some crooked people in the NTCC. This is a picture of RWD, Olson, and Kekel with his guitar. I don't know who the little dude at the bottom is? I didn't want this information tucked away in a thread with 166 posts. This is the true nature of the NTCC. Here is what you didn't know and were afraid to ask. This is the Atom Bomb of all exNTCCer threads and you can only find it on, "New Testament Christian Church, The Real Story", brought to you exclusively by the Chief Meister.
Jeff
57 comments:
Wait a minute! Rev. Crain was able to move his escrow from one state to another?!!! This is not allowed. If the church shuts it's doors in a town the escrow is to stay for the next minister who starts a church there. I know this for a fact! I understand the reasoning but by allowing him to move his escrow they are saying that God is done in that town for good. Shame!!!!
"Wait a minute! Rev. Crain was able to move his escrow from one state to another?!!! This is not allowed."
The whole "escrow" thing is likely just a hoax anyway; it's a method of amassing a pile of money to use as they see fit. Since there is no accountability, who knows what's going on with that money?
CM said..."We were told that we should have told them."
pdq says…”I did this one time (my first and last time).”
Rejoice with me in this initial online telling of another piece of NTCC history (11,882 characters, with spaces; I either lied previously or added more since, which is it NTCC? I vote for…“pdq is a liar!”…just to get it out of the way.):
Once upon a time, in a place not so far away…I called Rev. Olson (the Pastors weren't/aren’t allowed to call Pastor Davis, you know…the chain of command thing) to let him know we were not able to pay the church bills, and could we please have some money, or else downsize the work (the church was renting three properties for our full schedule of church activities), so the bills would be more manageable. Rev. Olson said if either of these events occurred, our replacement would be the one bringing any money the work needed, and we would be recalled to Graham. This in itself was notable; as this was one of two times (in almost 20 years) Rev. Olson didn’t need to ‘check’ with Pastor Davis, and gave me an answer immediately. It was ‘almost’ as if he was expecting this call, and had already gotten an answer. Could this even be possible? We had just left another work, and had liquidated (and spent) our assets (including most of our ‘savings’) a few months before, to get to this next work. So leaving to go anywhere was not an option for us. This work could have accommodated its then current congregation, and 50% additional growth, with one less rental property; and I told Rev. Olson as much.
Here is some background: I was told by Pastor Davis this work was in good shape and self supporting (before he sent us there). We made this call to Rev. Olson shortly after we assumed the work. As I mention above, we had liquidated our assets (once again) to get there. I assumed financial aid would be a given when requested, since the condition of the work was misrepresented to us by Pastor Davis, and the Reverend we relieved. I assumed (and still do) Pastor Davis misrepresented the work to us because the condition of the work was misrepresented to him by this Pastor. I have since learned, through my own observation, this same Pastor often misrepresents things (exaggerates/overstates) with regards to the positive condition of his work(s). As a bonus, he is another one of NTCC’s abusive Pastors. That’s right; I have seen him in action. Although, why recurring instances of the Holy Ghost not informing Pastor Davis (all the disparate aspects of this account, Rev. Denis’ shenanigans, etc.) continue to surface, is another imponderable since Pastor Davis has never missed God, and all he does is by the Holy Ghost. Since this it true (Pastor Davis has never missed God, and all he does is by the Holy Ghost), God is the one responsible for the deprivations NTCC’s Ministers must routinely endure. The Pastor I am discussing has yet to be recalled to Graham, even though this particular instance happened almost fifteen years ago, and even though this type of behavior has been recurring. As I mentioned earlier, I know he has not mended his ‘ways’ because I have had additional opportunities (years later) to observe his conduct.
After this, there were other times we needed help from the Organization, and didn’t have any escrow, and we didn’t ask for help. Why? Well I’ll tell ya, it’s because there was never another instance where I could make a stronger case than the one above, so I could not expect the answer to be any different.
That’s right, there were other instances where the condition of the work was misrepresented to us by Pastor Davis, and by the Pastor we were relieving. Stated differently, the above was not an isolated instance. Actually, this was the case in all but one work we were assigned to. Never to a greater degree than above; but always to an equal degree, or to a lesser degree than above.
Please continue below with me:
Thanks for sticking with me; your stamina, and tolerance for minutia, is admirable:
Here is some more background: After we got there, and during the changeover, the Pastor we were relieving said there were thousands of dollars in the General Fund. He was very eager to sign the books over to me when we first arrived. I soon found out (by reviewing the books during changeover) he had not paid any of the church bills for that month (some were even past due), and some of the monthly bills for two months (those were way past due).
When this came to my attention (again, by reviewing the books prior to changeover), I refused to assume this Pastorate until the Pastor had paid all the church bills (including buying food and heating fuel), so the works condition at my assumption would be accurately reflect on paper.
So there was actually $23.47 (amount changed to protect the innocent [me], but the actual amount is a similarly low figure) in the general fund; after he paid the bills he should have already paid prior to my arrival and/or prior to signing the books over to me.
So what was the overall condition of this work? Well, since you asked…The church was not self supporting (as I had been told by Pastor Davis); only had $23.47 in the general fund (and not thousands); required my wife and I to get secular jobs (this Pastor’s wife was working when we got there); the Pastor I relieved had reached very few of the church members (as most of them had PCSed from other works) already there when I arrived; most of them PCSed within 4 months of him having turned the Pastorate over to me (he never told me most of the congregation was ‘short’, though he knew this fact; and I didn’t think to ask, though after this I always did).
As a personal bonus to me he had put off (or did a half way job on) a lot of maintenance that needed to be done, so I was saddled with this also. Saddled with both the cost, and the labor, of doing (and redoing much of what he had already done) church maintenance. Although, this Pastor was diligent in pointing out all the maintenance that needed to be done at changeover; so he was aware of the condition (with regards to maintenance) of his work. He had done a lot of maintenance (of the just-good-enough-so-I-can-say-I-did-it variety) just prior to my arrival.
As I mention above, my wife and I got jobs (the organization approved this), and began paying some of the Church bills ourselves. This was in addition to additional giving (above normal tithe and offerings) by the congregation. This necessity continued for half the time we were there, until the work was built up to an acceptable level. Though, I never felt comfortable receiving a ‘salary’ from this work, so I never did (yes, this was my decision).
Remarkably, the Pastor who relieved me was allowed to downsize this same work, and was even allowed to eventually close this same work; though when we left this work it was self supporting (and not just on paper from not paying the bills). The Pastor who relieved me is another of the many abusive Pastors comfortably operating under the watchful eye of Pastor Davis and company. That’s right; I have seen him in action also. Maybe he ran too many people off. After this closing, he was given another work to go to; while we had been recalled to Graham.
Please continue below with me:
Thanks for sticking with me; your stamina and tolerance are approaching mania:
I did ask for money from the headquarters at other times (at one other work), but the circumstances were entirely different. I only asked for money at this other work because we had escrow built up (over $10,000), that they could send us. So, as long as we had escrow built up, they would send us our church’s money (as long as I was able to make a strong enough case, which I guess I always did). Yes, that’s correct, you have to aggressively sell many things to get the organization to do what they should be bending over backwards to do, and even then there is no guarantee.
Remember Pastor Davis often saying, “If your husband is smart enough to make the money, he is smart enough to spend it.” Well pdq says, “If you’re smart enough to put money in an escrow on your own, you’re smart enough to take it out on your own.” But, NTCC does not agree with this; which is not surprising since linear thinking, and a consistent across the board standard, is not one of their long suites.
Another thing I learned (from this same Pastor first, but then from others after him) during my almost 2 decades of being involved with NTCC is…Never trust the inventory, always verify all that is on it, so you don’t sign for anything that isn’t there, or isn’t serviceable. A word about inventories: Inventories are required to be done, and mailed to HQ, bi-annually, so this means these Pastors are knowingly sending in inventories that are not accurate (at least for the prior mandatory inventory period).
Note to all NTCC Pastors: When you and/or your wife have to get a secular job to pay the Church bills, and/or you shake down the congregation for money above tithe and normal offerings to pay the church bills, and/or use any of the other ‘creative’ ways NTCC Pastors use to ‘pay’ church bills, and you don’t tell HQ, the Pastor who relieves you will be unaware of this, and will initially have to do the things you did to pay the bills. The new Pastor and his wife may get the jobs, but they may not want to shake down the congregation as you do. The new Pastor may REFUSE to shake down the congregation as you do.
As you know, NTCC Pastors are supposed to clear any requests for additional funds from their congregation with HQ, before they ask their congregation…unless this ‘policy’ has changed also. For as long as I can remember, all that is to be said come offering time is, “All Christians pay tithe and give offerings” It is also authorized to add something like, “So you give as unto the Lord, and the Lord will bless you according to your giving.” Anything more than this must be pre-approved…each time; again, unless this ‘policy’ has changed also.
Continuing: But, the new Pastor may not want to get a secular job (because he was told he wouldn’t have to get one when he got there, as your church was ‘certified’ to be in such great shape, and since he didn’t need to get a secular job at the work he just left, since it was also in great shape). The new Pastor may also want to hold onto any savings he may have a little while longer. So if you’re doing any of this without telling HQ, go ahead and tell them…do the right thing, follow NTCC ‘policy’, and be a brother to the one who will be Pastoring your church after you are reassigned. Tell the arriving Pastor this also, when he calls you a month before he gets there, to get the ‘skinny’ on your work.
Please continue below with me:
Thanks for sticking with me; you must have OCD too:
You may choose to ignore the importance of this pdq ‘testimony’ because I am the only witness (well, other than my wife, and this Pastor and his wife, and the congregation of the Church I am discussing, and Rev. Olson and Pastor Davis). But, over the years you have routinely accepted a negative witness as gospel with similarly flimsy ‘proof’. To illustrate…If Pastor Davis (or an overseer, or a fellow minister) says something negative about someone no longer in the fold, you will accepted it, no questions asked, and will even pass it on as ‘gospel’.
Regardless of any claims Pastor Davis makes (he has never missed God, he can’t remember the last time he sinned, all he does is by the Holy Ghost, etc.) he is still only one witness. With the frequent opportunities NTCC provides you to be accepting of a double standard, why do you feel compelled to personally selectively apply the ‘3 witness’ rule also?
Another trip down memory lane, brought to you by NTCC…I hope you enjoyed our little tête-à-tête. Sleep tight and sweet dreams, rest in the knowledge you are winning and you can never trust (and must ignore) your own experiences; to the detriment of your own immediate family, and the glory of God!
Yours In Him/In His Service,
pdq ♪♫♫♪♪♫♫♪♪.♫..♫...♪....♪.....
bravo pdq!!!!
well said, may we have an encore?
i enjoy these type of messages immensely and will put them in my arsenal
thanks,
T
Wait a minute! Rev. Crain was able to move his escrow from one state to another?!!! This is not allowed
Well, looks like it happened, and judging by one Man's testimony, it happens more times than naught.
I am getting sick of NTCC plastic policies which do not mean anything, NTCC plastic ministorial licenses printed from the print shop which could be better used wiping one's behind, and fake NTCC preachers (the only exceptions are the honest ones on this blog) who carry around a NTCC preacher badge with plastic gun and bullets.
NTCC is a fake, can't you NTCC folks figure it out? They are the biggest sham masters in the Praise Jesus buisness.
Anyone who cannot figure that out either (a) Knows and doesn't care (b) Go along for the ride until it gets too uncomfortable (c) Stays in for selfish gain over others.
My one regret with regards to NTCC is having an arguement with my Grandfather before he passed away years ago. He was trying to talk some sense into me, and he, being an ordained and liscensed and accredited Baptist preacher could see right through the facade and sham. But I would have none of it, because NTCC was right, and all other churches were lost and on their way to hell.
I left him standing in his garage looking at me. If I could take back the bold statements I made to him, I would. When I was away from him, he passed away.
(continuing from last blog).
What NTCC does which is quite effective is destroy families.
Folks, your family is all you've got, if they will take you back after you chastized them about getting right with God.
Are you going to get an apology from NTCC? No.
Right now Kekel does not even know who is in control of NTCC, which is scary. He is NOT claiming ownership of NTCC right now.
May God bless each and every one of you this day!!
Bro Johnson
NTCC Ministers who contribute to thoughtfull discussion on this blog: Who, mind you, is in charge of NTCC?
The last time I checked, I thought Kekel was in Charge of NTCC.
His comments below from his website:
Bear in mind that I have three jobs, including CEO of the Organization, President of the Bible Seminary and Senior Pastor of the local church in Graham, WA.
He emails me and states this comment below. I am not making this up:
Hi;
Just so you know, I'm not in charge of NTCC
(wait a minute - He is the CEO of NTCC, but he states that he is not in charge??? He stated that it was HIS job)
nor do I manage its policies and practices. MCK
(Well, that is news as well. He makes his own policies as he goes, according to Kekel what started off as rules were never rules, just policies, find what works for you.
Who manages the Policies? Olson? Ashmore? Jordan? Kinson? (He is good at changing policies) Gandy?
For the love of Christ will SOMEONE in NTCC take ownership and responsibility for what is going on?
I would have more respect towards someone if someone were to admit they are wrong than to cover up and sweep it under the rug (Their mistakes)
To be forwarned is to be forarmed. Folks, if your thinking about attending NTCC, your better off going to the local 4-H Club. At least you know what your getting yourself into.
Bro Johnson
Anonymous said...
I left him standing in his garage looking at me. If I could take back the bold statements I made to him, I would. When I was away from him, he passed away.
Jeff said...
I am so sorry to hear that. Something similar happened with me and my Dad right before he passed away. I don't know what else to say?
With all respect and sincerity,
Jeffrey Collins
It is quite interesting that pdq and his wife would have to foot the bills and I guess you are duped into seeing all this as just doing in it for the Lord. These people play with your mind to the point that you will sacrifice yourself and your family to do it "pastor davis way"
a.p.w. (anon. preacher's wife)
According to the Trumpet article it seemed like Rev. Davis was stepping down. Rev. Olson was voted, by the board many years ago, to take his when Rev. Davis was no longer in charge.
I really believe that Rev. Davis is still in complete charge, just not on paper. I would say he is covering his tracks, etc.
a.p.w said...
It is quite interesting that pdq and his wife would have to foot the bills and I guess you are duped into seeing all this as just doing in it for the Lord.
Jeff said...
It is quite interesting. The whole thing is absurd to me. pdq being threatened with replacement, pdq being told that the work is self sustaining when it was no where even close, pdq making logical requests that were totally denied. I just hope that all who read pdq's testimony realize that the NTCC has some serious deficiencies and problems. I hope they see that Olson and RWD are quite corrupt. The whole thing is crazy. It's like a fictional horror story that you read in a book but this is not fictional, it is real and it's real life. I just don't understand how these Christians can continue with the NTCC while having all this knowledge? It is surreal. A Christian Church that is more crooked and corrupt than a common criminal.
Unbelievable,
Jeff
Never Harm said...
According to the Trumpet article it seemed like Rev. Davis was stepping down. Rev. Olson was voted, by the board many years ago, to take his place when Rev. Davis was no longer in charge.
Jeff said...
Olson is not a leader. Olson has always been a follower. There is no one in charge of the NTCC. All the main leaders avoid taking responsibility every chance they get. Kekel says he is not in charge but he holds three significant NTCC offices. Go figure? That certainly makes no sense. Olson has always (with very few exceptions) diverted decision making responsibility to RWD. RWD for years had directed that for the most part, he not be contacted and everyone go through Olson. Do you see what is happening. No one wants to take charge. Olson won't make decisions without consulting RWD, RWD doesn't want to be contacted, and Kekel says he in not in charge? That is the biggest leadership debacle that I have ever witnessed in any organization. It's absurd.
I truly feel that I know why that is. Let me give you a true life example.
I worked for a General when I was in the Army. I was hand picked to fill this particular position however I was working way outside of my Military Occupational Skill (MOS). Because I was a Satellite Maintainer I was supposed to be in the Signal Battalion and not on the General's Staff. The Signal Battalion Sergeants Major and Battalion Commander wanted me in their Battalion because I was the only E-7 Satellite Maintainer in the whole 2nd Infantry Division out of about seventeen thousand military personnel.
The Signal Battalion Commander went to the Division Chief of Staff to ask that I be assigned to their unit which is where I should have been anyway because of my MOS. Guess what the Chief of Staff told him? "Have your Sergeants Major go to the Division Sergeants Major and ask for Collins". So the Sergeants Major did exactly that. Guess what the Division Sergeants Major told the Battalion Sergeants Major? "Go back and have your Battalion Commander go to the Division Chief of Staff and ask to have Collins".
Needless to say neither one of them managed to get me to their Battalion. Both the Battalion Commander and the Battalion Sergeants Major knew not to ask twice and the Division Chief of Staff and the Division Sergeants Major played it that way. They were never intending on giving me in the first place and they both knew it, but neither one wanted to take the responsibility of telling the party who asked, "no you can't have Collins" because they both knew that rightfully, I should have been in that Signal Battalion by virtue of my MOS.
That my friends is RWD, Olson and Kekel in a nutshell.
Jeff
Bro Jeff -
You were in the 2ID?? Hooah! I am sure you still know the Warrior March.
What is funny about NTCC so called leaders is that they try to project a WARRIOR image, and on paper try to look good.
The truth of the matter is, most NTCC preachers, with few exceptions, are anything other than a leader. They were sorry performers when they were in the Army and they turned out to be sorry preachers.
The squared away preachers in the organization have left NTCC and stayed squared away civilians, with few exceptions.
The idea behind using military members to fund churches and to have military members go to Bible School is nothing short of pure genius.
I am still wondering WHO is in charge of NTCC since Kekel is not, according to his email.
Kekel must hate my guts by now exposing him like this, but I really do not care what he thinks, I care about folks in the Organization who are brainwashed in the NTCC mentality way of thinking.
Attending a NTCC service is like watching a bad copy of Michael Jackson's Thriller video when the zombies get out and body parts fall off!
Get out while you can, NTCC members. Heed the warning signs and roadblocks that are preventing you currently going down a deadend street.
Quite bluntly, attending NTCC is Spiritual Suicide. Also they make Michael Vick look like a Pre Schooler compared to their summary random and sensless killings of innocent cats
MLJ
pdq said...
"Olson said if either of these events occurred, our replacement would be the one bringing any money the work needed, and we would be recalled to Graham."
Jeff said...
Wasn't that noble of Olson. Nothing like threatening an NTCC pastor who needed to make a "logical" change surrounding a work that the pastor was ultimately responsible for in the first place.
Olson's statement paraphrased: "No we won't send you money so your bills are your problem and we won't let you reduce your bills so you better figure out how to bleed money from a rock, miracle maker! How do you like that catch 22, brother pastor? Kind of Gotch in a squeeze hey brother? I wonder if Olson said, "Gotch Ya."
Olson is sorry leader. In fact Olson is not a leader at all. That right there goes to show just how much Olson genuinely cares about NTCC pastors. NONE!!!
Jeff
I would have liked to be a third party in that conversation between Olson, pdq. It would have been fun to tell Olson that he could stick his threats up his forth point of contact. For all you folks who aren't paratroopers, that is your rear end!
Jeff
"Olson is sorry leader. In fact Olson is not a leader at all. That right there goes to show just how much Olson genuinely cares about NTCC pastors. NONE!!!"
Joe has been brutalized and twisted by RW. Pastor Fear compels him to do things against his own better nature. He is a poster child for mind control. I pity him, but he is a grown man and needs to step up and take responsibility for himself. He knows where the bodies are buried, and he's seen RW up close at his ugliest. A Nuremberg Defense will fail at the judgment bar.
If he feared God half as much as he fears RW he would flee NTCC now.
Jeff said...
"Wasn't that noble of Olson. Nothing like threatening an NTCC pastor who needed to make a "logical" change surrounding a work that the pastor was ultimately responsible for in the first place."
Jeff responded to himself...
That just made me think of something. If pdq had not been a part of an organization at that time, he wouldn't have had to ask permission for anything!!! Since RWD started the NTCC, since when has he asked permission to do anything!!! That is my whole point NTCC Ministers and I've made this point for quite some time now.
If you guys would just break away from the NTCC, (which geographically is the situation that you're in when you're out with your own work) you wouldn't have to ask permission to do anything. And you wouldn't have to send your money to Graham Washington. You ask, "well what about my tithes"? Well I have a better question; what about RWD's tithes? Who does he pay tithes to? The NTCC? It's his church anyway!!! You could do the same thing with "Your" own church if that is an issue. Give 10% back to your church and invest it into the church.
I just can't believe that more NTCC Ministers aren't go getters like RWD? pdq souldn't have had to ask for anything and he wouldn't have If the church was actually "his" church but of course it wasn't. As long as you are sending money to Graham, and putting money in escrow that the NTCC controls, and your name is not on the church building, and you have to call Graham to ask permission for everything, and you have to send up weekly reports, than your church is NOT yours and it doesn't matter what you say.
An NTCC pastor wrote just the other day on this blog, "I am my own man". That is a lie. You are not your own man as long as you are a part of the NTCC. Is your name on your church building if you even have one, and do you send up weekly reports? If so than you are not our own man and it doesn't matter what you say.
If I ran my own church, I wouldn't send squat to Graham. I would report to myself just like RWD has for about 40 years now. All my books would be transparent to my church. What a novel concept. Financial transparency. How often do you see that in the NTCC?
Jeff
Yes chief, I would agree with all that you're saying and I feel so sorry for the people that defend these actions.
I feel so sorry for the friends that I think I have.
I remember an instance when pastor davis rebuked sis. olson from the pulpit and guess what was the infraction in front of 1000's of people in a conference? I guess mrs. olson was kind of trying to sit in another position and you know that we all tend to do that when you're uncomfortable and I don't know if she made a face or what but rw happened to see this and being that she always sits on the front she was called off by him and her husband is just there sitting looking on at this ackward situation.
There is this woman that has given so much to the org. her own private life, her own time, I have been with them a few times and you wouldn't believe the work they put for the org. She just happens to be married to this man that is supposed to be the man in charge or so they say. She doesn't have a normal life like you or me. She is at the beck and call of whatever is happening that day.
I don't know but that is a lonely existance.
I would hope there are husbands in ntcc that would defend their wives if something like that would happened, but you know I'm on left field on that one.
I am not defending anybody just stating what I have experienced and probably there are others with stories like that, but many stay quiet.
a.p.w.
a.p.w said...
"I remember an instance when pastor Davis rebuked Sis. Olson from the pulpit and guess what was the infraction in front of 1000's of people in a conference? I guess Mrs. Olson was kind of trying to sit in another position and you know that we all tend to do that when you're uncomfortable and I don't know if she made a face or what but rw happened to see this and being that she always sits on the front she was called off by him and her husband is just there sitting looking on at this ackward situation."
Jeff said...
That's just another sad story but unfortunately I can't have much sympathy for Sis Olson. The Olson's have witnessed so much verbal and mental abuse in the NTCC without doing anything about it, that I find it hard to feel very bad for either one of them. At least RWD is an equal opportunity employer. He will abuse anyone and he doesn't care who you are. Sounds like quite a few NTCC pastors that I have met.
Like I always say a.p.w., the apple never falls very far from the tree.
Take care a.p.w.
Jeff
Father forgive them for they know not what they do...
Please have mercy on Jeff and Victor and PDQ and CM and L. Travis as you work in their lives to open their eyes and show them the error of their way and the consequences of their actions.
Lord rebuke them gently and admonish them according to the needs in their own lives.
In Jesus Name I ask these things.
Amen
Give me a break. Amen. Old sanctimonious Pharisee. This is what you sound like:
Luke 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
You ain't nothing but a hypocrite. You need to wake up and see the error of YOUR ways. The NTCC has willfully done more damage to the lives of people than I could ever even dream of. You guys are like the Church in England during the protestant reformation and I don't mean you are the protestants either.
We have chronicled example after example after example of abuse, double standards, false doctrine, misrepresentation of the Bible and God himself by RWD and his people, and you come here with this sanctimonious garbage? Spare me and save it. Christ had a way bigger problem with the religious people of his day who were just like you NTCC folks than he did with outright sinners.
Jeff
Father forgive them for they know not what they do...
Please have mercy on NTCC Leadership, Sorry NTCC Ministers who abuse their Print Shop licensed position and especially NTCC Ministers in Houston, Texas as you work in their lives to open their eyes and show them the error of their way and the consequences of their actions.
Lord rebuke them strongly and admonish them quickly according to the needs in their own lives.
In Jesus Name with the Holy Mary nodding in approval I ask these things.
Come quickly Lord Jesus, as we know that no NTCC minister is "their Own Man".
For we know, if they were "Their Own Man" they would have left NTCC long ago and started their own ministry. We know that NTCC Ministers are in bondage. They have to submit all kinds of reports to Graham weekly and are always encouraged to send a "Good Report" when we all know they will never be as rich as the NTCC Board members and RWD.
Amen
By the way Lord,
We also know that the devil goes to church also, and praises and worships you like the best of them!!!
Amen. And I, the reverend Jeff Collins who am not a reverend, didn't write either of those last two posts but I liked them.
Neither is anyone else a "reverend" because the term "reverend" doesn't even exist in the Bible as a title or position. You find the word "reverend" only one place in the entire Bible in Psalms 111:9 and it says, "He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name. It is not even capitalized so therefor not a title, and you can tell it's not a title anyway, and it certainly is not the title of a Minister of the Gospel. So who started calling folks, "Reverend" anyway?
I think it was someone who wanted people to "revere" or "honor" or to cause people to be in "awe" of their ministers, because that is what the word reverend means.
Well that definition in itself disqualifies a whole bunch of abusive NTCC ministers that I have met.
Jeff
Mike K. You say you do not make policies or run ntcc. But YOU DO LEAD BY EXAMPLE! Which is why so many people try to emulate you and rw. Folks think your the "man of God" so your the example to follow. So your going to bluegrass festivals,kids wearing Tight pants to play sports,now you listen to country music,your wife's choice in cloths is NOT MODEST!
But folks look up to you and your FIL! So without saying ONE WORD. You are running ntcc and the policies. How people make there personal choice's. It isn't WWJD. It is How does Mike K. live. I want to be just like Mike and Tanya. There a so called sucess.
RW always loved to share that the first impression is a lasting impression. Well your example is a lasting impression on folks under the ntcc fog. You say jump,they say how high. You say go to the North Pole,they would pack there stuff and be there in a month. Power of persuasion is very powerful!
CM
Chief I'm heart broken for all that I have read here specially that certain guy in houston.
I believe there are alot of people that are in the process of leaving but first they have to leave in their mind. It is such a hard thing to do, because I am experiencing this right now.
I have witnessed the fellowship of the pastors and board members and even rwd and all they talk about is money. They talk about how many properties so and so has acquired in washington state and how they are making money here and there and how the people are renting their apartments and this and that and how you need to get money, money, money. All their lives revolves around money and it is just so distressful to hear that the people that rwd runs around with, are all in the business of real estate. They buy and sell each other their properties.
Then you have the little two by four pastors trying to get something started in a new town and footing the bill like pdq said and what do they get? A fake smile and pat on your shoulder. I've been there when the pastors get together and everybody you see is trying to out do the other.
No real love within the pastors and the ministers wives, they are just trying to see who has more material things.
I'm tired of it all.
I am a inactive Marine. And when I was in I had Srgts.that I did and some I did not respect. They had to EARN our respect as our leaders. Just being put in a postion does not make you a LEADER! You have to EARN the respect from your conregation!
Semper Fi to all the Marine's on here!
To all NTCC Pastors,
By the Power invested in me in all that is right and good I
STRIP YOU OF THE TITLE OF REVERAND
As it is not a biblical position.
Go ahead also you so called Men of God and shred your print shop cracker jack good for nothing pastorial licenses while you are at it.
JOSEPH
Anonymous prays...
Father forgive them for they know not what they do...
Please have mercy on Jeff and Victor and PDQ and CM and L. Travis as you work in their lives to open their eyes and show them the error of their way and the consequences of their actions.
Lord rebuke them gently and admonish them according to the needs in their own lives.
***********************
Jesus teaching how to pray.....
Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name.
Thy Kingdom come,
thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom,
the power and the glory,
for ever and ever.
Amen
Anonymous who taught you how to pray?
Signs of verbal abuse exhibited by the abuser are:
Actions of ignoring, ridiculing, disrespecting, and criticizing others consistently.
A manipulation of words.
Purposeful humiliation of others.
Accusing others falsely for the purpose of manipulating a person's decision making.
Manipulating people to submit to undesirable behavior.
Making others feel unwanted and unloved.
Threatening to leave the family destitute.
Placing the blame and cause of the abuse onto others.
Isolating a person from some type of support system, consisting of friends or family.
Once the victim identifies and recognizes these signs of verbal abuse and realizes the signs he or she can do better, the person can be proactive about finding help. If left too long in an abusive relationship, the person will start feeling hopeless.
Actions the victim or target can take include:
Find a trusted friend, a support group, or a counselor to discuss the situation. A network of supportive relationships can strengthen and uplift.
Learn about yourself and healthy relationships. It helps to make better choices.
Know and remember that we are all valuable and deserve to be in relationships that enhance our worth, bring out the best in us, and where we feel safe.
All,
I found some info on the state of NTCC three years ago on FACTNET which is worth repeating!!!
The current crisis of consciousness amidst the ministry of NTCC should be referred to as The Late Awakening. Because that's what it is. People are waking up.
They are abandoning the shackles of fear. Many people have improperly blamed themselves for their lack of joy in the ministry, and for their questions and doubts. They are now seeing that their misgivings are well grounded in reality.
Virtually everyone who has escaped has testified that they feel a great burden lifted off their life, almost instantly. There are questions, and there is bound to be a period of turmoil. In some cases, there are deep scars. Yet every one who has labored for years under the yolk of bondage declares, in some way or another, that they feel as if they have a new lease on life.
Many people are not FULLY aware of the insidious nature of the control exerted on them until they are free of it. Some people are so amazed with what they see, when they look at NTCC from the outside, that they can hardly believe they ever promoted it.
The shallow pep talk on the NTCC Sunshine blog is just whistling in the graveyard. It clearly lacks substance. People are tired of that hollow “we are winning” rhetoric. That is why they are leaving en masse. Empty propaganda has gotten the church to where it is now. One definition of insanity, (as we were taught in Bible School,) is thinking that you can keep doing the same thing, and somehow get different results. To judge by that definition, it appears that the church leadership is insane. For them, it is business as usual: just ignore the issues, ignore the trail of damaged humanity, and hustle up a fresh crop of suckers to replace the expendable work-units who wise up and leave. All in the name of God.
JOSEPH
Marine said...
Semper Fi to all the Marine's on here!
Jeff said...
I wasn't a Marine but I am a retired GI. 20+ years active duty. Semper Fidelis to you to Brother. Always Faithful. Glad to have you hear Marine!!!
Jeffrey Collins
404-405-7842
Joseph said...
STRIP YOU OF THE TITLE OF REVEREND
As it is not a biblical position.
Jeff said...
Joseph: It's good to see you here on this blog. Keep posting. If you ever need to talk I can be reached at 404-405-7842.
Sincerely,
Jeff Collins
Abusive people see others as objects for their satisfaction. They usually lack empathy and see no value in the needs, feelings, wants or desires of others.
I like to compare this to addiction. Instead of chemicals, an abusive person has your fear, powerlessness or pain as their drug of choice. In other words, they hurt you so that they can feel better
Oh Jeff,The Marine is not a brother. I am a female Marine and VERY PROUD TO BE A MARINE!
something I had to push down while in ntcc. Pretend that I had never served. Had to be the modest,meek female. Not the strong,determined,motivated Marine that I was.
Jeff said...
I wasn't a Marine but I am a retired GI. 20+ years active duty. Semper Fidelis to you to Brother. Always Faithful. Glad to have you hear Marine!!!
Jeff made correction...
Semper Fi Sister. I stand corrected Marine!!! Good to have you here Ma'am. I have nothing but respect for you.
My nephew is a Marine currently serving oversees in a combat zone. I love Marines.
Sincerely,
Jeff
Semper Fi Sister Marine! I am married to a Marine *inactive*.
Hardest job outside of being a Marine is being married to one!
We have our USMC sticker on our car and everyone assumes I was the one that was in the Marines. I guess you can say I was since I married one right?
Have a blessed day!
Well 1 Peter 3 does say us women of God are to have a meek and quiet spirit.
That has nothing to do with NTCC, it's in the Bible.
When one reads the rest of verse 4 in 1 Pet.3 it tells us that our meek and quiet spirit are of great price in the sight of God.
What a blessing for us ladies to strive for as it pleases our LORD.
HalleluYAH! \o/
Dawn,
ntcc wants women meek,quiet and OBEDIENT. Keep us stupid in a stupified fog! Do what the man wants,cook what the man wants,have sex when the man wants,buy the dress the man wants us to wear,on and on and on!
When I talk about being meek,I mean. Stupid,no brain,can't think for ourselve's. I am just a dumb female,LEAD by her EMOTIONS! The man is so much better then the lowly woman! AS IF!!
I did have to push down that I was a Marine. I had a mind of my own. I can make decisions,be independent and still be in subjection to my husband. NOT BE HIS DOORMATT!
I no longer have to pretend to be weak,stupid,brain is mush female.
Ladyleatherneck
Jeff,
I finally figured out who is in charge of NTCC:
It is Mr. Joseph Henry Olson (President).
James Ross Ashmore is Vice President
Johnson Richard DiFranscesco is Secretary
and
Yours Truely, Michael Craig Kekel is the TREASURER. So he was correct in stating that he is not in Charge of NTCC, or is he, again, he states on his Website that
"Bear in mind that I have three jobs, including CEO of the Organization, President of the Bible Seminary and Senior Pastor of the local church in Graham, WA".
So Kekel not only has money, he is IN CHARGE OF THE MONEY
according to a report filed by NTCC under the name New Testament Church of God (thought they did away with that name already)
Filed as an Annual Resistration Report in June 29, 2009 to the Secretary of State in Missouri.
- Bro Johnson
Actually,
Mike Kekel was the President of NTCC back in 2006, according to the same report (looking back four years ago). At that time there was no Treasurer (according to documents that NTCC filed as a buisness entity under Missouri state law.
You can see for yourself under the Wikipedia article on NTCC. scroll near the bottom, you will find some good data.
Bro Johnson
Jeff,
According to NTCC Bylaws, the Members of the Board are entitled to 30 Days Vacaction WITH Pay!! If I were an NTCC minister, I would be fighting tooth and nail to get to this position.
What I do not understand is, according to NTCC Bylaws, and I am not making this up (Vic, Jeff, and PDQ please feel free to chime in at any time):
NTCC reports to Missouri that NTCC is suppose to maintain charitable instiutions,
...such as homes for the aged (NTCC only has one mansion, I mean home, for RWD that I can think of, and, Kekel, who is not aged, has a mansion, I mean home, too, but other older preachers are left to rot in their own demise)
...Rest Homes for ministers and missionaires (Do not believed this happened due to the endearing testimony of our Purto Rico and Korean ministers overseas).
Can a Fellowship Hall be called a rest home? In that case NTCC, whose enduring leader cannot remember the last time he sinned, is covered.
Kekel states that he is not in charge of NTCC. However, he IS THE CEO of NTCC, he stated so in his NTCC Blog, and according to NTCC bylaws, the CEO shall,
have supervision, direction, and management over ALL undertakings and operations of the organization to which he shall devote the amount of time required by such, and for which he shall BE PAID.
ARTICLE X: ALL general and executive Board members in leadership positions are REQUIRED to pay their tithe to a "general Tithe fund"
...Orphanages (they never have sponsored this),
...and cemetaries (does NTCC have a cemetary? Does not Davis have his own cemetary plot??)
Now, Jeff, here is the kicker:
ARTICLE XVIII: Discipline: Have a problem with a current NTCC minister? (Cough, Cough, Houston, we have a problem)
NTCC Bylaws state, again I am not making this up, that
All Charges against a minister shall be made in writing, in triplicate, and signed by two accusers. The original and one copy goes to the General Oversear, who will send one copy to the accused minister, one copy is retained by the accusers. The G.O. will then give all parties 10 days or more written notice.
Good stuff to know, most NTCC members do not know, had I known this years ago, who knows what the outcome might have been about several minsters abuses.
Bro Johnson
All,
Please be mindful of what you post on these blogs, Big NTCC brother is watching, copying, and pasting!
MLJ
Jeff,
Joseph is not a new member, just a current blogger who is going by a different screen name.
Is it just me, or did anyone else notice nothing new coming from the last NTCC Congerence in the Springtime?
...and it is almost that time again!
MLJ
Conference! Gezz I can't spell, nor dance nor jump, and I am a white boy :)
MLJ
"Please have mercy on Jeff and Victor and PDQ and CM and L. Travis as you work in their lives to open their eyes and show them the error of their way and the consequences of their actions."
God's way ahead of you, dude--about 12 years ago, my eyes were opened to the error of my ways and the consequences of my actions. I didn't hesitate long taking heed and departing from NTCC. I've been happier and better off in every way since that day.
Isaiah 65:24
"And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear."
This is from the latest Trumpet.
Chairman of the board and president- J.H. Olson
C.E.O. - M.C. Kekel
General Overseer- J.L. Johnson
Secretary- J.R. DiFrancesco
Assist. General Overseers-
J.R. Ashmore & L.D. Jones
World Missions Director- T.E. Wright
Also on the board:
G.R. Jordon
P.A. Kinson
D.L. Tieman
quoted from a song..
"why kiss the feet of the people who kick you?"
And....revised version of my own personal quote that I came up with years before I ever ran into NTCC..
New version of my quote now says...
God put me on this earth to please Him...Who are you again?
bro. Johnson posted that the e-mail about kekel saying the following:
"nor do I manage its policies and practices."
What the heck does he mean by that statement.!
I thought that being a ceo of an org. that would mean that he is in charge and is in agreement of what this org believes otherwise he wouldn't be a part of all this charade.
If he is not on board with the practices like not wearing pants except for exercising (thanks pdq)
not wearing make-up except for some malady that you have caused by stress or other birth defect. (thanks pdq) participating in mixed bathing except you are invited by your church pastors to come and get into their hot tub.
Women going to work, unless you are doing it for the servicemen's home or working strictly to pay the churches bills.
Wow I could continue on and on
but I rather not.
All I want to say is "I can see clearly now the fog is gone."
a.p.w.
ExNTCC Minister said...
"I also learned with the Johnson’s that not all make-up is make-up. Sis Johnson told me and my wife that she wears some kind of cover up for her rosy cheeks condition. My wife was blown away. Sis. Johnson said she did not consider it make-up."
Jeff said...
Here is the way I see it. I understand that Mrs. Johnson has a skin condition and I have no problem with her not only feeling the need to, but also actually covering it up with makeup. Well guess what? Do you know how many NTCC women have some kind of skin problem whether it be acne, or some kind of mild skin blotches, or they just don't like the coloration of their skin and as a result they would rather alter their skin color with makeup? I'm sure plenty.
So what does this mean? That Mrs. Johnson gets a break because her husband is a leader in the church!!! Period.
There is and has been a double standard in the NTCC for quite some time.
a.p.w. you hit the nail on the head. I could continue on also but I also would rather not. All the information is right on this blog.
Jeff
By the way. For all of you who don't know a.p.w is another pastors wife. There are a few NTCC ministers wives on this blog right now who aren't too happy with the NTCC. Kekel just needs to come clean. It would be something else if there was another split.
What is the point of staying with the NTCC anyway? Someone please answer that question? I truly don't understand why more pastors wouldn't rather start their own work anyway. I'm still curious where Mike Kekels son is planing on attending college? Does anyone have any idea yet?
I just think that it is a good thing for NTCC folks to know so they won't have to be guilt tripped into pushing their children to go to the NTCS. Why not a regular college so that they can get a real education? Grant must be getting ready to start College? Surely someone must have some idea? My daughter will go to a regular college and I have no reservations about saying so. So will my son if his grades are good enough years from now. The NTCC certainly isn't going to take care of them. Why in the world would you send your children to a non-accredited non official college anyway. An NTCS transcript won't even help you land a job at Micky Dees flippin burgers. I wonder if Taco Bells recognizes an NTCS transcript? Those ministers learned how to make some good tacos at conference.
Rather than go to the NTCS I could start a college at my house and print a transcript from my computer. I have a BS in Blogology. It would be worth as much or more than an NTCS transcript. What's the difference?
These are all good questions.
Jeff
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