Thread #63 With the passing of Senator Edward M. Kennedy, I felt that a fitting subject to discuss should be health care. I've never been a big fan of Edward Kennedy, however if you study his past you can not deny that the man has been a champion of health care reform. Senator Kennedy witnessed the need for U.S. health care reform while in the hospital with his ailing son. While witnessing the financial struggles and burdens of many people around him , Edward Kennedy realized that he was fortunate enough to pay for health care that many others could not afford. This realization challenged the man to do more in an attempt to improve health care than any other political figure on record. Because of his own experiences surrounding extremely severe illnesses with his son and daughter, the "liberal" Senator Kennedy had quite an interesting and admirable compassion for people in need of health care. Do so called "conservative" Christian leaders in the NTCC display the same sort of compassion? Many would contend and affirm that they do not.RWD and his cronies have consistently and proudly stated that the NTCC is a business and should be run like a business. Pastors such as Mr. Hunt have openly stated while in church service, that they considered themselves "company men". Well if the NTCC is a company / corporation (which it is), and if the NTCC considered itself a business (which it does), then why has the NTCC never attempted to provide any kind of health care benefits for it's so called licensed ministers? I will tell you why people. Because the NTCC leadership only runs their church like a business when it benefits them, (the leadership).
My question is, how many people out in cyberspace have ever struggled to get good health care or even keep good health care insurance while serving as a minister or ministers family member with the NTCC? Does anyone else feel that the NTCC, as a corporation should offer at least some kind of health care benefits for it's licensed ministers? Every company that I have ever worked for since I've retired from the military has offered health care benefits without one exception. Is the NTCC a legitimate corporation or not (which I already know it is), and if it is why doesn't it care enough about it's ministers to offer some kind of health care benefits? I know the answer to that question as well. Because the only people that the NTCC leadership is truly interested in taking care of is the NTCC executive leadership. RWD, Kekel, Olson, Kinson, Ashmore are the ones who get taken care of in the NTCC. The vast majority of remaining ministers by far simply have to fend for themselves.
I worked at a Toyota Store and of course the owner received a whole lot more money than I did but the owner also offered health care benefits to all his employees. The dental coverage that he offered was excellent and I took full advantage of it. I get health care with my military retirement but I receive absolutely NO dental care so I am thankful to have worked for three corporations who offered good dental care benefits. Does the NTCC INC offer such benefits?
You work for the NTCC don't you? If you say you don't but rather you work for God, then why do you send any money to Graham? RWD supposedly puts money in some kind of general tithe fund so why don't you put your money in your local church general tithe fund instead of sending it to Graham? Is it a business or is it not. Please answer the question. Why does the NTCC control your escrow accounts? Oh I understand now. It's a business when it benefits the NTCC but it is not a business when you need health or dental care. I see how it works. Once again Old Jeff is just finding fault; really?
Boy is that some kind of business / corporation. Where health care is concerned, the NTCC wants to act like a common everyday church on the corner but where RWD's and Kekels wallets are concerned, the NTCC wants to act like a business and has stated as such all along. For that reason and many others that I would rather not be a part of the NTCC. If I am totally responsible for taking care of my own family, I'm certainly not going to be taking care of Kekels at the same time. I would that the NTCC hadn't got one dime from me but they certainly won't get another one.
Jeff
115 comments:
Jeff,
That is an interesting point. Case in Point: NTCC reports to Missouri under two names:
New Testament Church of God, and New Testament Christian Church.
I wonder is one is a corporation and the other a psedoname for a private endeavor???
Bro Johnson
I know the (NTCC) is a Missouri corporation. It is also evident that the church we were a part of currently goes by the name (NTCC) and has for quite some time. So why doesn't the NTCC corporation offer group health benefits to it's ministers? I am actually waiting on an answer from a minister or former NTCC minister.
I would like to know what their feelings are on this subject.
Guessing what the deal is with two different church names would be purely speculation on my part with no evidence to support any theories. I'm going to stay away from that one.
Jeff
No, nobody receives any medical insurance unless you are on the board or work for the org. like the people in the office, I don't know about the teachers because they do this because they believe they are "called" to the ministry of teaching and like rwd said "you don't get paid to do what God called you to do" which to me doesn't make sense at all because t. kekel is the only ordained minister and female teacher but she has insurance through the org. while other teachers don't. The teachers only get a stipend and that amount is very small.
bloved.
Okay, someone got me thinking so I looked up New Testament Church of God and found this site.
sos.mo.gov/BusinessEntity/soskb/ Corp.asp?645681
It's the gov. site for Missouri. It shows this being first filed in 1969. It wasn't renewed until
1999. The address for the New Testament Church of God is 1123
Holly Hills Ave. That is what Rev. Davis' address is listed as but the other men's address are in Graham. According to the document there are no church members. You can go under "filed documents" and look at all of them since 1999.
In 1999 through 2003 Rev. Davis is listed as the COB and Rev. Olson is the CEO with Rev. Kekel as the tres/pres.
In 2000 & 2001 on the 2nd page Bradeen and Denis are listed.
In 2004 & 2005 Rev. Olson is COB & CEO and Rev. Kekel is still tres/pres.
2006 Rev. Kekel President
2007 -2009 Rev. Olson is president and Rev. Kekel is treasurer.
Rev. Ashore is always VP and Rev. D is always sec'y.
Anyone besides me find this extremely odd? Why are they keeping this church name alive? Something very fishy is going on here! I'm afraid that I just keep finding out more and more bad things are this org.
It ALWAYS boils down to. DOUBLE STANDARDS!
What Tanya and her family recieve is always different standards the regular folks recieve in ntcc.
Why else has Mike K. been doing so much under the radar. That is considered against the policies.
Ladyleatherneck
Never Harm said...
Something very fishy is going on here! I'm afraid that I just keep finding out more and more bad things are this org.
Jeff said...
I came to the same conclusion about 1 1/2 years ago. Nothing about the NTCC surprises me anymore. When someone with an open heart really digs around the NTCC back yard they can't help but find things that are fishy. The fact is, you wouldn't have to do much digging. A blind man could see the whole preferential treatment situation that has existed with the Kekels all along. Real Christians wouldn't give anyone preferential treatment regardless of whether or not they were family.
That in itself shows what the NTCC is really all about. It's plain and simply a family business with a few key families that are involved. Period. It's quite easy to see. The Davis, Kekel, Olson, Ashmore, Defrancesco, Johnson, and Kinson families are all in some form or fashion intertwined. If you are related to anyone of those families in some shape form or fashion, and you want to be, you are in.
Not because of any other reason than birth and an unwavering loyalty to RWD. Olson is not a good preacher at all. Johnson is marginal. Olson is a good follower of RWD but he is anything but a good leader. If RWD said that his skin was blue Olson would agree with him. If RWD told Olson to have an NTCC pastor jump off a cliff the only thing Olson would ask is "when".
Olson is not a hard guy to read. It's not about righteousness, it's not about godliness, it's not about spirituality, and it certainly is not about holiness as can be clearly seen. It's about "LOYALTY" and "FAMILY". PERIOD! Anyone who can't see that is blind.
Jeff
Jeff,
I am going to digress a little bit here.
I just killed a spider that I spotted in my kitchen that just LOOKED evil, that it was up to no good.
One of those Wolf spiders, if you know what I mean.
The creepy thing is, when I arrived home late at night, I found my son asleep in the chair in front of my computer, which is in front of my kitchen.
The Spider would have been heading towards my son. I picked my son out of the chair earlier and tucked him in to bed. The Spider is no more. I pulverized it with a book.
The point I am trying to get across is, NTCC is like that Spider. It is a THREAT to the well being and spiritual health of our children.
Pick up your children, get them out of the way of the Menance.
NTCC members with kids who attend NTCC: Pulverize it (NTCC) with THE Book, with prayer and wisdom, pull your kids out of the way of NTCC, NTCC will ruin your kid's youth, and you nor your children can ever regain that.
Bro Johnson
By the way,
I HATE Spiders. There you go, Mr. Davis, there, right there IS the devil!!!
Bro Johnson
I hate spiders.. I have one trapped under a glass right now because it is so big that squishing it will leave a massive mess that I don't want to clean up, so I am just gonna let it die a slow painful death. Or stick paper under the glass and then drop it over the toilet and flush it. I haven't decided which. But I do plan to torture it for a while. They bite me all the time. So its only fair!
MJ said...
Pick up your children, get them out of the way of the Menace.
JC said...
You better believe it. The biggest regret that most of us have is that we actually had our children follow the rules when Kekel allowed Grant to ignore what he now calls "policies".
Kekels child was allowed to do things in school that my child was not. We followed the rules and he didn't. We followed what RWD instituted and Kekel said "forget about that mess; that doesn't apply to me or my son".
The worst part is that RWD had to know what Grant was doing or Kekel was no more than a big fake, and frankly I believe it was a combination of both. The NTCC tried their best to keep things secret but the mighty internet let all their secrets out of the bag. Now all these explanations are being concocted in an attempt to cover all the tracks that they left along the way.
I fully believe that with RWD it was never about holiness but all along it was about control, money and power. If it was about holiness, RWD would have put a stop to all Kekels mess or removed him plain and simple, so it couldn't have been about holiness. It it was all about God then RWD would have stood by what he preached and he would have picked God over his daughter and son-in-law and removed both of them from their respective positions. It couldn't have been about God because there is no way you can convince me that RWD had no idea about the liberties that Kekel was affording Grant.
Once again it had to be about control, power and money. Kekel never brough up that his son was playing football in tight pants, we did. Kekel never brought up that he went to a blue grass music festival, we did. Who knew that Kekel used songs like "The Gambler" to inspire his messages. Kekel never brought up the land deal. Once again, we did. The NTCC never brought up the DVD thing, Denis did. None of those things would have ever been mentioned until they got caught. What about ministers attending secular colleges or college football games or having their wives work on a job. All that stuff was brought up right here on this blog or Tracy's or Factnet. All that stuff was previously hidden from the general NTCC populace.
Holiness, schmoliness. Sanctified, schmanctified. Separate, Schmeparate.
Where is all of that stuff now? Hocus pocus, phony baloney. We all got duped because those guys were and are nothing but some big fakes. I'm so glad that the internet set me free. The NTCC had me bound but the internet set me free. I'm on my way to work and I'm shouting victory. Singing I'm not giving my time and money and the internet set me free.
I'm thankful for information medium that the NTCC called the sinnernet and the devilnet for years.
Jeff
Angie said...
I hate spiders...
Jeff said...
Sounds like the NTCC and their relationship with poor innocent little kitty cats.
Jeff
i have experienced using Raid on spiders and nothing happened.
but once there was an enormous spider and all we had was over cleaner.
it killed that spider in no time flat.
so, there ya go angie.... no messes to be made. hope it helps.
I like spiders--they're invaluable for pest control in my organic vegetable patch. Everything has its function.
Nevertheless, are not predatory arachnids a perfect illustration of the NTCC leadership, sucking the life out of the unfortunates entangled in their webs? Their lavish lifestyles are largely the outcome of the time, labors, and substance of others. They feast on the fat of the land and trouble the people with onerous burdens of their own invention. They are 21st century Pharisees.
RW is Eli, favoring his progeny above all, exempting and excusing behavior in them for which he has repeatedly conisgned others to an eternal hell. But it didn't go too well with Eli in the end, and no one ultimately gets away with anything anyway. I'm persuaded that, like Eli, he's been warned. He should change his ways.
Jeff, Even though I was a member of nttc for only a short time, I was in with both feet.
I was in the Killeen, TX nttc for only one year in 89-90 and almost never missed a service, prayer or soul winning meeting. I was looking forward to going to their Bible college one day. Fortunately I was separated by a PCS to Germany and the closest nntc was 4 hours away.
Amazingly, pastor Bradeen still expected me to attend. When I decided to worship with a local Assemblies of God congregation (only a 1 hour drive!) I was completely sold to the devil as far as he was concerned.
Even though I knew some things were way out of balance, I had to get away to see things clearly.
Still, it has taken me years to shake the confusion and mixed emotions I picked up there.
At first, I felt shame and guilt for leaving, but over the years, it has turned to shame and guilt for those I lead to such a dangerous organization through the so-called "soul winning" program. I pray the guys I introduced escaped with their faith and their sanity.
If there is a silver lining, I am now a pastor at a small non-denominational church in NE Ohio, and my experience with them has taught me some valuable lessons about Faith, Grace, Holiness and Legalism.
God Bless you in your efforts to expose Truth.
Spiders are not a good thing around where I live. Every poisnous spider you can think of. Is here!
Rattlesnake's are here.
Jeff I will say this.. I don't hate cats.. but if one of my cats ever comes up and bites me for no reason you can bet the thing is gonna be on a fast trip to the humane society. And if my dog ever bites me I am gonna kill it right then and there (everyone with a brain knows that once a dog tastes human blood it has to be put down). I don't hate animals.. but I am pretty stinking sick and tired of getting big nasty welts from spider bites and then finding spiders who's bodies (not counting their legs) are as big around as my finger nail.. ON MY BED!
Not to mention I just had to recently take my son to the doctor for a nasty spider bite from one of those said HUGE ugly spiders.
If the stupid things would leave us alone I would leave them alone.. but no.. they don't..
SO..if ntcc would leave us alone.. we would leave them alone.. but no... they won't...sooo... where's my shoe?
Unless you want to spare all the spiders living in and under my house... bring your nets...and rent a hotel.. your gonna be here a while.. They always move in when the weather gets hot. I wish we could bug bomb this place. But it only last for so long and then they come back.. like a disease that won't go away.
Pastor said...
God Bless you in your efforts to expose Truth.
Jeff said...
Thank you my friend. I wish you the best of success while Pastoring your church in Ohio.
Sincerely,
Jeff
Anonymous said...
Spiders are not a good thing around where I live. Every poisonous spider you can think of. Is here!
Rattlesnake's are here.
Jeff asked...
If you don't mind me asking, where are you from. There are poisonous spiders, scorpions, and rattlesnake's where I live in southwestern Georgia. You wouldn't happen to be from this area would you. Just curious.
Jeff.
Angie: I'm not a big fan of spiders either. We have brown recluse and black widow spiders here in Georgia. Those guys will mess up your day. However I do understand Vics point. I bunch of big spider webs will do some serious damage to the insect population. It's a necessary thing.
It's kind of like a big old king snake. They kill venomous snakes like water moccasins and rattle snakes.
Yep, I'm not a big fan of spiders but we surely need them.
Jeff
speaking of animals:
I have wondered why ntcc cat haters hate cats so much instead of snakes. Aren't snakes supposed to be an emnity with humanity since the garden of eden? I mean where are the stories of how they went out of their way to run a snake over (well, okay maybe they are not as visible as cats.)
just a thought :p
No Jeff. I am not living in the GA area. More of the SouthWest region.
by all means the ugly 8 legged things can put their webs outside where they belong not in my blankets or my drawers or my closets, etc. Their bits are painful these are not small spiders we are talking about... I should have taken a picture of the one I was torturing before I dumped in the toilet and let it drown. it was no small spider... the small ones don't bother me so much.. its the big ones that do.
You know Chief, I read your post in which you state: m.c. kekel never brought up his son to be holiness, but we did, and this brought the remembrance of a time when at the fellowship hall in graham, we were sitting and the little boy was just a few years old,he was a toddler and he was there and one brother was showing him how to clap and raise his hands and rwd told him "no, don't teach him that, I don't want him to grow up religious."
I guess he didn't want grant to be educated in the ntcc "policies" like they are called now but wanted him to find his own way, which to me makes sense.
This boy didn't attend the conferences faithfully like the children of other ministers because his schooling was more important, but we sure took our children out for the sake of appearing spiritual and that we loved God more than a stupid school.
Now I come to the realization that all we supposedly did for God, thinking that it was the righteous thing to do, was just a stink in God's nostrils.
blovd.
rwd told him "no, don't teach him that, I don't want him to grow up religious."
A very revealing statement about R'Dub. I remember being in the servicemens home and being encouraged (To the point of being almost made) to raise your hands and clap and sing.
I have to say this, and I know that there are people who will think I've gone off on the deep end with this statement.(If they don't think it already) But I wonder if RWD is even saved. 30 years ago I would not have even dared to THINK such a thought. But now, I just don't know. I just don't see how anyone who names the name of Christ can be so calloused and cruel, and so materialistic as well as allow a double standard so blatant. It seems to speak of an arrogance so despicable that God would cease to be God if he is not offended.
this last message reminded of more double standards. With Grant and the other children in ntcc.
While sitting at the "fellowship" hall. My Child was expected to sit right next to me and not say a peep. She may draw or color. But get up and run around. NO WAY! My daughter was kept in a box. While Grant got up and run around. While Tanya chasing after him. Making joke's about only wanting one child.
This is upsetting me. Just thinking of how I curbed my daughter for nine years. Was Grant ever curbed and kept to sit still.
Then came the gameboys into the fellowship hall. Would that have EVER happened if Grant had not brought them in. Then parents went out and bought there BOYS a gameboy. Rarely was a gameboy in a girls hands. We bought a Sega for our daughter. And have since bought her a PSP.
Our kids were expected to be angel's. Know the Bible. Be clean,presentable. Our kids were supposed to be example's for other kids in the conregation to follow. What KIND OF PRESSURE WE PUT ON OUR KIDS! I was at Tanya's home. Being her unpaid maid. Grant was upstairs jump up and down. The Chandlier was bouncing all over and a few piece's fell off.
Now reverse that. If Mike K. and Tanya had walked into our home. And my kids were running,jumping around while guest were in my home. Frowns would have come out. Sure we would have been talking about,BEHIND OUR BACKS!(gossip)
My kids are now as FREE as I am. FREE to be KIDS. And I am Free to make My OWN choice's.
Those that are still in ntcc that think there own man or make there own choice's. You can only making these choice's. BECAUSE Mike K. has made the change's. If he says go back to the way it was. Then there goes all that free choice!
CM
Blovd, Mark G, and CM. Very good points. I just wonder how folks reading this blog can ignore statements such as the ones that you three just wrote. I personally feel that the people who are able to simply ignore statements such as yours are the ones who broke the rules all along anyway.
It wouldn't bother any of them like it does us, because we actually tried to follow the NTCC standards. Certain NTCC ministers admittedly never attempted to truly follow the NTCC holiness standards from the beginning, Mr. Kekel not being the least of which. NTCC ministers have come on here and suggested the same thing. That they made up their own rules all along. It just makes me sick but oh well, I just have to get over it. It's the truth.
It's times like this that I wish I had be a common hypocrite like some of these NTCC ministers were all along. I would be able to make the same bold statement that a current NTCC pastor made right here on this blog quite recently and I quote him writing, "Your a dork... do you think I don't talk to Rev. Kekel? Do you think that he's going to call me and tell me to back off? Do you think I will? Ha ha your so stupid your funny. You can't take me, so you run for protection but it won't come. I AM MY OWN MAN always have been and alwasy will be."
You see how he boastfully stated that he is his own man? He even suggested that he wouldn't back off even if Kekel directed him to. Sometimes it seems to make more sense to be a double standard, hypocrite crook like RWD, Kekel Olson and Briggs.
Not really but you get my point. The point is the crooks often prevail.
Jeff
Hey Jeff,
It seems Mr. Briggs did back off. He has posted rarely if ever since he boldly declared his manly sovereignty and determination to not back off even if MC Kekel told him.
Just an observation from Just a Voice
Maybe partly true. I kept deleting his messages because many of them were baseless. I didn't want him spewing totally fictitious rhetoric on here, and because I kept deleting his messages, he may have gotten tired of even trying.
I do endeavor to be fair and honest and that is the other side that you may not have known. Now having said that, I only deleted his messages for 2 days, or at the very most 3 days. As far as I can tell he hasn't tried to post since. He is also probably busy with his own blog now. He has occasionally been reading this blog though. It least that's what I think based on the hits that I've seen.
However it is certainly possible that Mike Kekel or Olson told him to back off. Olson usually does that kind of bidding for the NTCC. I don't even know if Kekel exercises that kind of authority?
Jeff
Jeff,
Then switch this blog back to un-moderated.
pdq
Sure, all the things that people bring out on this forum are true.
It is now the normal thing now to go out into a work and do your own thing. Usually the culprits of change would go around and talk to other ministers and would tell them of how they would break the rules and how God blessed them.
Yes people, there was a time when the churches didn't believe in children being taken to a sunday school or to nursery or God forbid have a clown, stage a puppet show, playing skits or things like that!
Everything that you were taught in practical theology about the right way of eating pizza or soup and all that stuff and how to never combine brown with blue, how to never wear white shoes (ladies) after labor day, all this is old school for some, but now, none of these things apply.
My only bet is that the old preachers, those that are still around, will have to come back to graham and be reprogrammed because they became absolete around 10 years ago!
bloved
pdq said...
Then switch this blog back to un-moderated.
Jeff said...
It has been un-moderated for quite a few days now. Things were getting kind of crazy and I believe that moderation was necessary for a time and it may be again in the future. When I find myself having to delete too many posts, moderation becomes necessary. Good to hear from you pdq. I trust all is well.
Jeff
Mark G said...
I just don't see how anyone who names the name of Christ can be so calloused and cruel, and so materialistic as well as allow a double standard so blatant.
*********************
I've witnessed this type of behavior more than once.
Mark, I'll see you in a couple of weeks.
LTravis
"You see how he boastfully stated that he is his own man? He even suggested that he wouldn't back off even if Kekel directed him to. Sometimes it seems to make more sense to be a double standard, hypocrite crook like RWD, Kekel Olson and Briggs".
Bro Jeff, very good point. I noticed something when I was in the field. If you see one hornet, then there is probably 10 more nearby.
With regards to the certain pastor in Houston, he has been employed by his coorporation for quite some time.
They had to have known about this drama all along, RWD and Olson cannot be that stupid, blind and ignorant.
We have all been hoodwinked into believing an ideology that even the leadership of NTCC Corporation could not even follow. RWD probably dreamed this up one day, and VIOLA!! The ponzi scheme worked, and worked well. Then, came the money, and the rest, as they say, is History.
I have noticed an interesting parallel here. I think exNTCC members and NTCC personnel are just going to wait this thing out, with Kekel making all these changes, even though he claims to not be in charge, until both sides die off.
Whomever is left still standing after 30 more years of this regurgitated vomit is the winner.
Bro Johnson
L Teeeeeeeee. What's up my friend. I will give you a call when I get a chance. Been pretty busy lately.
Jeff
Bro J: The fact is I will probably never know who is still standing when the smoke clears around the NTCC. The longer one is away from the org the less people they know who are still in it. What we need is a good mole. Ha, ha. Someone who knows, for example were Grant Kekel is going to college.
Is there anybody out there? Is there anybody out there? Hellooooooo, can anybody hear me.
Jeff
Jeff said...
Ha, ha. Someone who knows, for example were Grant Kekel is going to college.
Is there anybody out there? Is there anybody out there? Hellooooooo, can anybody hear me.
***********************
LTravis said...
I was thinking why would you enroll your son in private school?
If you study acceptance percentages for Ivy League colleges it becomes apparent that it's very hard to "get in". It helps to be enrolled in private schools and have very high SAT scores. It also helps to have letters of recommendation from the "pink lemonade society" mix in a ton of cash and bam you’re in. I would love to send my child to a fine college. I know someone’s thinking what's wrong with that? To be continued...
I believe Grant is in the 12th grade this year, not on his way to college yet.
Anonymous: It would appear as though you are right. I found this roster with Grants name on it.
http://www.maxpreps.com/local/team/roster.aspx?schoolid=bf137750-09db-4607-a39e-4d1a3d71fd4e&ssid=f11d21e3-d9ab-4c9b-974b-ff4fcfed5c76
Here is another link with pictures. They have some nice shorts for practice.
http://cwablogs.org/blogs/wrightblog/2009/08/20/football-team-holds-first-practices/
Looks like the young man will be in tighty, lascivious football pants and some nice shorts again this year. You know the kind that every NTCC pastor that I ever had preached against. You know, all 6 of them and RWD also for that matter.
Kekel must be the only one who gets the real scoop from the Lord about modesty for men. That means there must be some false prophets running around the NTCC or just maybe the Lord change his mind about that kind of stuff and lightened up the standards a little bit? For Kekel sake of course.
I personally don't have any problem with the whole uniform thing but don't insult me and my friends by suggesting that the NTCC hasn't been apposed to that kind of apparel for men. NTCC preachers have always openly preached against shorts and tight pants for men, period. NTCC ministers never stated that there was an acceptable length for shorts. They said that you were not supposed to wear shorts and they were lascivious.
Jeff
I BET there is a double standard for Grant when it comes to dating. Mike K. has the inside scoop from God. So he can decide it is Ok for Grant to date. While other kids his age in ntcc don't even dare date. or if they do,there on the wall. I know many ladies that were his age and were on the wall. And married off. But that's right,he is Mike K. son. He has a bright future. Why get tied down to a wife. Especially the one's in ntcc,long dowdy dresses,split ends,chalky skin. I am thinking that Grant is looking outside of ntcc.
CM
Hey CM: That business about "being on the wall" sounds so crazy. That is just one more example of an NTCC control freak tactic. "On the wall"; how absurd.
OK kiddie, stand against the wall and no talking SIR!!!!!!
Control freaks.
Jeff
Jeff,
not only that, but when I was in NTCC from 94 - 04, you had better not even THINK about dating unless you were going to MARRY the girl.
This was convey to me by more then one preacher.
Once again, double standards. I wonder if Grant even goes to Church, period!!!
By the way the whole exception to Grant rule is absurd. When King David was a young man, he was well favored by the Soldiers (the Troops) as he was always around them, moving in and out of the formations. No wonder all Israel fell in love with the man.
Maybe Grant is Kekel's Absolam.
Bro Johnson
Jeff said...I personally don't have any problem with the whole uniform thing but don't insult me and my friends by suggesting that the NTCC hasn't been apposed to that kind of apparel for men. NTCC preachers have always openly preached against shorts and tight pants for men, period. NTCC ministers never stated that there was an acceptable length for shorts. They said that you were not supposed to wear shorts and they were lascivious.
Angie Replied...I got barked at if I put my son in shorts and he was around a year old when I started going to NTCC.
In response to Bro Johnson. I left NTCC the last week in Sept 2005 and Grant was still sitting in the back row with his Mom. So unless things have changed since I left. I do believe he still goes to church/brain washing services.
Wow! can you believe it will be 4 years that I've been out here shortly...time flies when your having fun!
OH yea.. working full time and going to school full time while being a Mom and a wife.. anyone in NTCC wanna tell me I am sinning because I work and go to school?
Grant may sit in the brain washing service's. But what has his life been. One of privlage. NO I AM NOT JEALOUS OR BITTER! But face the facts folks. He has lived the life of RICHY RICH. While ntcc kids live the life of a poor servant.
He has gone on day trips to old War Ships,Fairs,karate lessons,playing DVD's,started the gameboy sensation,now playing lacvious sports,possibly has a girlfriend and not pushed to get married,wouldn't be suprised if Mike K. has the TV on his computer(that is possible)!
So while sitting in those service. He has never had to live the so called HIGH standards,Holiness that others were FORCED to live. Yes,we were put under pressure to conform.
Me as an example. i started wearing dresses,skirts that I chose. Then attended Verna's holiness,how to be a correct Pastor wife classe's. Could start a thread about those classes. Hilarious! My way of dresses started to change. Conform to the reccomendations(black dress,off white,navy blue)
CM
Angie said...
I do believe he still goes to church/brain washing services.
Jeff said...
LOL. I like the way you phrased NTCCs church services. The truth is often funny. Brain washing services.. Ha, ha, ha. That is exactly what they are. I wouldn't be able to say that so matter of factually if they would just preach about the bible but no, that's not what happens.
They preach about animals, life insurance, football, politics, weight lifting, woman not working, who's the most dedicated and who's not, how to wear your hair, and the Superbowl, and how to be dedicated to RWD and the NTCC and on and on and on and half of it has nothing to do with the bible or sin for that matter. It all boils down to some NTCC preachers personal agenda which quite often has absolutely nothing to do with the Bible. They try to twist things to mirror the Bible and that is exactly where the brainwashing occurs.
I like it Angie. Not church services but brainwashing services. Amen Sister.
Jeff
IdahoAngie said...
.. anyone in NTCC wanna tell me I am sinning because I work and go to school?
**************
IdahoAngie,
I don't think you will have any takers on that topic. The new "policies" allow for computers, sports, music festivals, wearing athletic clothing, DVDs, vacations, college outside the church and married women working. These were sins I mean policies at one time.
Have a good day Angie.
LTravis.
If I find out for a fact that Grant kekel is going to any other School/Seminary other than New Testament Christian Church I will call him personally and tell him what I think about the situation.
I remember being hounded, Prophesied against, and running the whole gambit of emotions of agonizing over the fact that I didn't go to their "Bible School".
I guess it's good enough for us, But not good enough for the Royalty.
It's brain washing in boot camp (they treat you like crap to wear you down to get you to take orders). Same crap happens in NTCC. Eventually you will or have gotten sick of it.
But I gotta give the military credit. They treat their people better then NTCC ever did. And that is saying a lot because I grew up around EVERY branch of the military (I have had and currently do have a relative in every branch) and I married a man who served in the Marines. I know just how bad the treatment can get but NTCC has the military beat. They are down right evil as can be. I don't think I've ever seen people treated so horribly or been treated so badly as when I was in NTCC. Some of the crazy crap I witnessed never happened to me. But I'm sure it would have if I had stuck around long enough.
I'm done being controlled and anyone who knows me knows that I don't put up with being bossed around or treated badly anymore. I have no respect for people who do not respect and care for the mental and spiritual health of other believers.
And as someone said earlier.. don't remember who and I don't feel like reading all the comments... they didn't think Davis was saved. He may have been at one point. You never know. That is between Davis and God. Some people can and do walk away from God and don't even realize it. I kind of wonder if thats what happened to Davis. Or you could be right he may have never been saved. Guess we will all find out who is really saved according to God when that day comes right? Some of use might find out we weren't as saved as we thought we were. And Davis might just be one of them. But thats up to God to decide not us. We just have to live as God commands us in the Bible and do our best and worry less about others salvation(is he/she or isn't he/she saved?) and more about our own. And no I am not talking bout leading others to Christ I am talking bout going around worrying if a person is a christian or not based on their actions..
I'm sure there are plenty of people in NTCC who are not saved but I know there are plenty of people in NTCC who are. Guess we'll find out who's who some day right?
As one NTCC preacher once stated, when you get saved, you don't have to stop dancing, you just have to change partners!
I have a new name for NTCC: The Empire.
I have a new name for exNTCC'rs: The Rebels.
ㅇㅁㄴ러ㅏㅁㄴㅔㅗㄷㄹㅇ러ㅣㅓ화ㅓ메ㅑ두ㅜㅜㅜㅇ리ㅏㅎㅓㅎㅎㅣㅓㅏㅐㄱ두누ㅏ후ㅗ누누
"I BET there is a double standard for Grant when it comes to dating."
Well, there was a double standard for Mike and Tanya. While we were all getting the hairy eyeball from RW, they got to secretly double date with another favored couple. None of us had a clue. The rules (er, I mean 'policies') are only for the little people.
Mikes whole NTCC life is a double standard in comparison to the lives of 99% of everyone else in the NTCC.
Tell me of one other family in the NTCC who received "so many" exemptions other than the Kekels?
Anyone who can't see this simply doesn't want to. It's called willful blindness. It's so obvious. There is no way I could stay with the NTCC knowing what I know now. Why would you stay with the NTCC and for what? The only possible reason I can come up with is because folks don't want to loose certain friendships that have been developed.
These people (with few exceptions) are not you real friends anyway. You would find out who your real friends are after you left the NTCC. You would know who your real friends are after the smoke finally cleared from the smear campaign against you and your family. Oh it would happen. The NTCC is notorious for dragging folks name through the mud.
"They just didn't want to serve God". "They loved the world". "They loved money". "They loved sin". "His job was more important". "Their house was more important and he was greedy", (which is what they said about me).
"He loved his wife more than he loved God". "She loved her husband more than she loved GAWWWD". Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
It's sickening.
Can someone tell me what is so special about the NTCC? Don't tell me. It's the white shirts and the long dresses. It's the 50s style male haircuts. It's the long hair on women. NTCC folks, I have a question. Do those combined practices alone define your church? Because those practices alone seem to be the only ones that differentiate you guys from any other church these days.
Mike and Phil have done away with the rest.
Jeff
Jeff,
Did that certain guy from Houston dump his blog?
Ah, my good Anonymous, it would appear as such. Looks like he is not his own man after all. Either that or he saw the error of his way.
Isn't that something. Thank you my good Anonymous for the notable observation.
Well this blog remains as a testament.
Jeff
Chief:
You started this post telling us about the death of kennedy, well, I remember telling my husband, kind of sarcastically, the following: "Poor kennedy, he probably went to hell, because there was no ntcc church around where he lived." He just stayed quiet and didn't say a thing.
bloved
Marine's do break us down and build us back up.
More comparision with ntcc and the military. We get there all happy. On fire for God. I can remember the VERY FIRST service I went to in WA. Small old chapel. Before it was opened to the public. He BASHED women. I found out that was going to be the NORM! I walked out of that service stunned. Tried to brush it aside. Wasn't we doing Gods work,in Gods will??
I said before. I did wear holiness dresses I chose. Took six years,but I was starting to conform to Verna's standards for a PW dress.
Inch by inch. ntcc is working on you. To get you to conform to there ways. Mike K. is the BEST at it. Because he will act like your buddy. But leave ntcc and LIES will be spread by HIM!!
Ladyleatherneck
I did say that I wondered if R'DUB was saved. It's not something that I go around thinking about all the time, and I certainly don't agonize over it.
My view of Salvation tends to be Calvinistic in nature, Being of the Reformed doctrine. I don't want to get into a Theological debate on this Blogsite and avoided such things on Factnet as well because we can disagree on things of a Theological nature, But I think that we all stand together when it comes to speaking out against many of the practices that NTCC employ.
I'll just leave it at that. Mark
Rather than go to the NTCS I could start a college at my house and print a transcript from my computer. I have a BS in Blogology. It would be worth as much or more than an NTCS transcript. What's the difference?
These are all good questions.
Jeff
Jeff, NTCC is a ILLEGITIMATE organization. When you look at the wording of illegitamate, what do you see? Illegit. NTCC is too illegit to quit.
If you throw money at anything that LOOKS legit, noone says anything. Everyone just assumes that everything is hunky dory, good to go.
Now, let's explore what I just stated logically.
NTCC is a ILLEGITIMATE organizaion. They are not accredited by the government. Does not matter that they file under the pretense "New Testament Church of God" or "NTCC, INC" as far as filing as an organization. The owner of a flea circus can do the same thing.
NTCC has no legitimacy which means their Preacher LICENSES are bogus!!! Like you said, Jeff, they are not worth more than the Toliet Paper used for one to wipe one's backside.
Because NTCC has no moral bearing, you have renegade preachers who are not really preachers doing their own thing running amonk in a defunct organization. Houston really does have a problem. So does Hinesville, Lakewood, Junction City, H-town, you name it.
NTCC so called preachers are spiritual vampires that suck the life out of normal citizens in which they look, dress, and act like zombies.
I am seriously thinking about getting remarried due to the fact that I now know the creditials of a certain preacher who used to be NTCC are NONE, and he was the guy who married my wife and I.
I will never take anything a NTCC preacher says seriously ever again. The have lost their moral bearing with me, and I have some choice words I will say if I ever meet another one.
Born Free,
Bro Johnson
bloved
You started this post telling us about the death of Kennedy, well, I remember telling my husband, kind of sarcastically, the following: "Poor Kennedy, he probably went to hell, because there was no ntcc church around where he lived."
Jeff said...
Of course you know bloved, that is the NTCC mentality. I would have said something like that sarcastically as well. I hope everything is well.
Jeff
Bro Johnson are you saying you don't think your marriage is really legal because the fact that the preachers in NTCC are not really legitimate preachers? I am just asking to make sure I am reading things right.
I can now be thankful we went home and had a second ceremony. To do it with the family and a different minister. What Johnson said,got me thinking. We are going to renew our vows in a few years. And have a Ceremony the way we want. Now all stuffy,dresses up to the neck,no music,no dancing. we can do it OUR WAY. Not ntcc way!!
Lucky I was married to my hubby before NTCC. I got to have the wedding I wanted. But we did renew our vows last year. And we both cried more at the vow renewal then we did at our wedding. Guess it's because we love each other more now then we did back then.
Angie that is really sweet!
Bro. Johnson, I never thought about was my NTCC marriage real or not....that is kinda scary!
I remember when I got married, it wasn't the way I wanted, but I
did get some personal touches in.
I remember years ago a Pastor's wife was talking about how stupid big weddings are...as waste of money etc.
I immediately piped up and said sometimes it is the only chance people have to throw a party for friends and family, or even see them! Some peoples culture(such as Indian and African)consider the weddings a sacred rite of passage.
When we got married, my family threw us a big wedding. The big dress, the reception, the dance....it was wonderful. Then when I went to my first two ntcc churches, the ministers made disparaging comments about our wedding when they saw our wedding pictures.( you know, the pictures of family normal people put in their own homes on shelves, walls or tables) From that time on, I always hid my wedding pictures and showed them to no one.
What I would say to them now is this:
1. YOU didn't pay for it, so shut the #$@% up about it.
2. We didn't ask for your opinion or input so don't give it.
3. Mind your own #&$^%#*@(#& business.
I wish I had the audacity to say those things to them at that time.
"sigh", oh well, live and learn.
fiona
fiona said...
What I would say to them now is this:
1. YOU didn't pay for it, so shut the #$@% up about it.
2. We didn't ask for your opinion or input so don't give it.
3. Mind your own #&$^%#*@(#& business.
I wish I had the audacity to say those things to them at that time.
"sigh", oh well, live and learn.
LTravis said...
That is exactly how I feel...
WELL SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We got married in a ten minute rush ceremony in front of the student body right after finals at about 10:30 PM in St. Louis; no family or guests. I have one snapshot from my wedding night that someone took in the hallway of Edna talking to a brother, and me standing over in the background. We went to our $165 a month apartment, and I went to my $5.50 an hour job the next day. That's about as romantic as it got in NTCC back then. A month later, we left for Fairbanks, arriving here in November. Our marriage has been tried by fire, much of it stoked by the "policies" of NTCC.
I did catch Mike and Tanya's nuptials before we left, though. By NTCC standards, it was lavish, and probably lasted at least an hour. I don't recall any other weddings that weren't like mine, though, except for the Armour/Cyrius doubleheader, after which RW vowed never to do what he called "formal" weddings again (and theirs didn't qualify as a formal affair by any stretch of the imagination). After that, we might as well just have jumped over a broom; it was assembly-line weddings all the way.
Well, we're still married, anyway. It's one of the few good things that came out of my association with the org.
Vic,
Like you all, our NTCC wedding was the same type of after-church-and-fellowship-late-at-night non-event. Quicky vows, sign some papers, go 'home' to our new cheap apartment. Next day at work on my low paying job. Thrust out (I went willingly) into a work shortly thereafter.
Coincidentally, I recently asked my wife if she would be interested in having a 'real' wedding, she was thrilled; all for it. When/If it happens we will send out invitations.
Since NTCC left us (you read correctly) we have been doing many things we should have been doing all along (taking care of ourselves, our family, etc.), and re-doing many things NTCC prevented us from doing right the first time.
Like you, we escaped with our marriage in tact; our relationship is stronger than ever, and has only benefited from not being affiliated with NTCC anymore.
pdq
Boy these last 2 posts brought back memories; my wedding was 10:30pm after class, also! Probably had bus ministry in the morning to attend! Moved into a small cheap apartment. I was glad just to get out of the dorms! But yes, there was a feeling of a wedding-mill going on! At least my folks came down from Michigan to attend. Big thrill! Oh yeah, all those wedding picture I took for other people and songs I sang and piano I played, never got hardly a dime of thanks!
Why? Nobody has a dime left- we were all on the brink of abject poverty after every kind of pledge given!
And the "work" I went into? Southside Christian Church - after the Samintos left it with a great congregation of 2 or 3. But yet I had to work the 2170 Forest Church! How could I possibly build up a church in South St Louis- inherited from the Wrights then the Samintos.
I forgot: thanks W and S- for the 2 members! at least the building was decent. AND: there was NO SUCH THING as a "escrow fund" in those days! Who thought that one up? Oh yes- we must protect the members from the pastor. He's evil.
I remember Southside, and I believe it's the first place I "preached" (if you could call it that), at one of those Saturday night student services. We used to hang out on the sidewalk afterward and hit the Ted Drewes stand up the street. In spite of our bleak situation, I have some fond memories. NTCC couldn't quite stamp all the joy out of my life even then.
I'm enjoying the reading. With guys like Double D and Vic, we have folks posting who were with the NTCC 25 and 30+ years ago respectively. I would say collectively we all have a great degree of knowledge and experience where the NTCC is concerned. It's good to no longer be with the NTCC.
I think these guys know what they are talking about. Ya all take care now, ya hear.
Jeff
P.S. It's about time for me to figure out a new thread. Any ideas folks?
Jeff
ntcc does not cherish minister's marriage's. Because if they see fit. They will help break it up. So they can continue there empire. With no interruptions!
How many folks married in ntcc right now. Have only been married ONCE? Very few!
Bro Johnson are you saying you don't think your marriage is really legal because the fact that the preachers in NTCC are not really legitimate preachers? I am just asking to make sure I am reading things right.
Idaho Sister Angel Angie,
Yes, that is exactly what I mean.
I'm not saying that ALL NTCC preachers are evil. I believe there are some called by God who got sidetract in this defunct organizaton.
Like Jeff says, it is what it is. I am also not discrediting any former NTCC preacher who is now out of the Empire having now saw the light.
If God places the Call of God in your heart, the devil did not place that desire there. Your called by God, so you need to go to a Bible School that is accredited and learn the tools of your trade.
Let me share something with everyone: I believe that God has called me to preach. The calling is still there, even though I am in the military. When I retire from the military and can support myself and family of four I will pursue that calling and go to an accredited organization and get whatever license I need to get to be allowed to preach.
NTCC Bible College is not accredited. So those minister licenses are null and void. It is like walkig around with paper money that is fake from a monopoly game that you know you cannot cash.
More to follow...
Bro Johnson
No doubt NTCC ministers use their transcripts from their Bible school to get secular jobs to support their ministry. John MacDonald used his perfect A transcript to get the prestigeous job of bell boy at the Dragon Hill Lodge (5 star hotel) in Korea. So much for any perks and pleasures coming with the license.
Let's take this even further. If NTCC ministorial licenses are fake and are not accredited, what does that say about the folks teaching the classes?
Do they have degrees? NO!! They have a pretty license printed from the Print Shop that they hang in their office that is not worth anything.
My brother, who has a Doctors Degree from USC, is AUTHORIZED to teach. His degree is legitimate.
By what AUTHORITY do NTCC teachers at their Bible School have to teach their classes? By the State? No. By the Government? No. By God? NO, NO, and a THOUSAND TIMES NO. They make it up as they go.
They have Kekel and RWD's authority, since RWD cannot remember the last time he sinned. They have "The Blameless One's authority. It IS his money making buisness after all, isn't it?
Because NTCC is not an accredited institution, I cannot use my hard earned GI Bill benefits because th Government, whom NTCC staunchy is PRO for and defends (This we believe bogus statement blah blah blah!!!), does not recognize the legality of NTCC and will not release your hard earned tax dollars to pay for it (their Bible School). The Government is not fooled. Why should you be, oh ye of little faith!!!
Again, as I stated earlier, if you throw enough money at something, it LOOKS and FEELS legit!!!
To be continued...
Bro Johnson
So my little brother Andy got married. He go hitched!!
We had rehersal the day prior and went to a nice reception following (Free food!!)
The day of the wedding was beautiful. Andy and Tiffany were married before a room full of witnesses by an ORDANINED and ACCREDITED / LICENSED Minister. He was a real nice guy, too. The Wedding was legitimite. We had another reception afterwards (YES!! More FREE food Yummy!!)
They had the bride and groom dance, cake cutting, pictures taken a tousand times, it was so...Romantic??
It was a special day for my little brother and his new wife.
Now I see what I missed. My wedding was a sham job. Thanks, NTCC!! Now do not get me wrong, NTCC fans! My legal union with my wife is legit according to the Court of Korea.
I am saying the false proffit who married my wife andI was not a legit preacher. My wife of almost 10 years deserves a legit marriage ceremony, and she will get one...In time.
The End.
Bro Johnson
Jeff,
It is interesting how Ntcc robs one of their cultural experience/ identity(starting with picking apart one's sinner family!)
Whether if it is "southern gospel only", cultural weddings, or how one ethnicity wears their hair NTCC is sure to get their 2 cents worth.
Church of all Nations= If it ain't "white" it ain't right!
rw daivs does not want to perform fancy and beautiful weddings. That would take money away from ntcc. Away from those wonderful pledge's(SCAM's)
I am thankful I got married in a local Church. And I had a beautiful wedding dress,reception and a week of leave.
What about double standards. What kind of wedding did Mike and Tanya have? I am sure she must have had a wedding gown. rw's little girl and only child!! Same with Grant. He will have the wedding with no expense withheld!!!
Saw so many sister's dressing in something special after a student service. Stand up,do the vows. And then go home and back to school the next day. rw love's to say princess for a day pauper for the rest of your life. You can have a nice wedding on about five hundred dollars! I know we did it!
Can't wait to renew out vows. And do it however we want!!
CM
Church of all Nations= If it ain't "white" it ain't right!
ntcc also robs folks of there uniqueness of there accent from there region on the US. I am getting back my accent.
Oh that's right. Only rw can only talk differently.
CM
CM said....ntcc also robs folks of there uniqueness of there accent from there region on the US. I am getting back my accent.
Angie replied....ever hear the term... We are BORG you will be assimilated? I heard it a lot after I left NTCC but I thought it a lot before I left. Because All the men look the same and most of the women look like old ladies even when they are in their teens.
Minus the few that still managed to look instyle while still pulling off looking modest.
Anyways... here is the definitions of assimilated:
–verb (used with object)
1. to take in and incorporate as one's own; absorb: He assimilated many new experiences on his European trip.
2. to bring into conformity with the customs, attitudes, etc., of a group, nation, or the like; adapt or adjust: to assimilate the new immigrants.
3. Physiology. to convert (food) to substances suitable for incorporation into the body and its tissues.
4. to cause to resemble (usually fol. by to or with).
5. to compare; liken (usually fol. by to or with).
6. Phonetics. to modify by assimilation.
–verb (used without object)
7. to be or become absorbed.
8. to conform or adjust to the customs, attitudes, etc., of a group, nation, or the like: The new arrivals assimilated easily and quickly.
9. Physiology. (of food) to be converted into the substance of the body; be absorbed into the system.
10. to bear a resemblance (usually fol. by to or with).
11. Phonetics. to become modified by assimilation.
–noun
12. something that is assimilated.
God might have called us to be set apart from the world and to be aliens but there is nothing in there that says we need to be robots and look like everyone else. He gave us free will and NTCC is taking free will away. Well those of us who have left are taking it back!
All men in ntcc parted hair,and SLICKED back!YUCK! Boring suits,white shirts,conservative tie's,wing tips. Women with pleated skirts,dresses,dress shoe's all the time.
Sounds like hitler. Lets make them all look the same. Talk the same. Same activities. Dull,boring live's!
cm
rw davis loved to say. We were living the best life. That Christians really know how to have fun. And we all smiled and bobbed our heads in agreement. No we lived a life of bondage,under rw's thumb. ntcc thinks they got it made now. They are only allowed what Mike K. allows in HIS life. then in turn,folks in ntcc get it in there life! If he did not allow his son to play sports,play a gameboy,now a basketball court in his backyard and fooseball. It would have been shunned and not encouraged(allowed) in ntcc minister's home's!
What makes living in ntcc the best life? a Minister's calling is supposedly above a doctor,lawyer,bus driver,solider.
And Christians know how to have fun in ntcc??? Yeah right. Sitting around people's home's stuffing there face's for about two hours. Telling same old lame joke's,stories. Because they have NO LIFE! All they got is what they did before they got in ntcc!
I can now choose my OWN music,my OWN cloths,My OWN hairstyle,MY OWN friends,control my relationship with my Lord and where I attend worship. I control MY OWN free time. No need to try and decorate my home like Verna's or Tanya's. Or try and buy cloths to look like tight fitted slutty look that Tanya had going on!
I can also choose to work or not to work outside the home!
No mr. briggs I am my own person and you definalty are NOT! Whatever you do is under the microschope. You are only giving so much leeway and then your leash is pulled tight! As it has been pulled tight once again!!!
ladyleatherneck!
wow, grant sounds pretty big.
210 pounds at 5'10. and i'm trying to lose weight !
http://www.maxpreps.com/athletes/CX7JxQdL1E-iZUznmGpd0A/football-fall-09/profile-grant-kekel.htm
That must be wrong. Grant is taller than his dad.
Grant may get a fancy wedding but it wouldn't be his family paying. The brides family pays for everything except the rehearsal dinner.
This is just supsition. With the talk about ntcc having us all clone. Looking alike,talk about similar topics. Nothing special or unique about folks in ntcc.
I believe rw does everything for a reason. So why do you think in a ntcc service folks are worked up into a frenzie. Jumping up and down like crazy! Swinging each other around until your arm feels like it is going to fall off. One person starts jumping,everyone joins in. One person stands up and starts clapping. Pretty soon the ENTIRE conregation is standing and clapping. sniff,sniff,smells like a Cult!
Then you got the so called Speaking in Tongue's. Sounds like chanting to me. if any of them really have the gift of speaking in tongue's. Or just doing because that is what is expected of them. You are so called GETTING IN. If you get this gift. You accepted into the CULT!
CM
Talking about double standards, I remember a sister in the servicemen's home I attended telling me about how wonderful the kekel's wedding had been.
She wore a long, white dress, and that she had a special song sung by sis blumenthal, called "you are so beautiful." I told her that that was a worldly song, but she said that they had added "jesus" at the end of phrase, so that made it christian.
Then I went to bible school and heard that ntcc ministers shouldn't have lavish weddings because we were not catholics, it was just a waste of money,then rwd would say in his north carolina drawl "queen for a day, pauper for life."
blovd.
i just looked up pauper. i heard davis say the phrase alot though. only had an idea what a pauper was.
pauper on one definition means destitute of all means except by charity.
it looks like we were all christians for a day and paupers the rest of our time in davis' hypocritical real estate money machine cult
rw davis loved to make fat joke's,blonde joke's,bible school joke's. But no one could make a joke on his expense. GASP! How disrepectful that would have been!!Give you his evil eye!
Still even more joke's at his OWN WIFE's expense. He loved to mock,make fun of folks from AK? Why? would he make fun of his wife's family. He loved to say,it is not his family,that is her family. HOW RUDE!
My husband love's my family as I would not mock his family.
How is that showing honor to your wife. By making fun of her. And always reminding her if she doesn't like how it is. Take the next bus!!
Oh and back to fat joke's. Anyone seen Tanya K. lately. She has been putting the pounds on. Is rw making joke's about his OWN DAUGHTER!!
Hey Jeff.
Guess what Mike K. has taken off ANON poster's on his blog. Just went on to write. Clicked on profile,no ANONYMOUS!
Funny,ntcc is winning. But VERY FEW go on and post on Mike's blog!
CM
blovd said...
Talking about double standards, I remember a sister in the serviceman's home I attended telling me about how wonderful the Kekel's wedding had been.
Jeff said...
Exactly right. That is the whole story of the NTCC. The Kekels were always privileged and RWD always exercised partiality towards them. It's a fact. No one can deny that. They were allowed to do things that virtually everyone else, (with few exceptions) were denied.
Jeff
Anonymous said...
Oh and back to fat joke's. Anyone seen Tanya K. lately. She has been putting the pounds on. Is rw making joke's about his OWN DAUGHTER!!
Jeff said...
Very good point. Your point says it all.
Jeff
CM said...
Clicked on profile,no ANONYMOUS!
Jeff said...
CM, if you said anything other than "the NTCC is great", it's unlikely if what you wrote would ever get posted anyway.
In all fairness I guess I can't half blame Kekel. I'm not a big advocate of folks coming on here and attacking me either. Especially if I know that what they are writing about me is false. Of course I do allow folks to post but when push comes to shove I have no problem with deleting someone's message if I really don't like it. For all it's worth I have deleted exNTCCers as well as NTCCers messages here.
I guess when it come right down to it, this is my bully pulpit and there are a whole bunch of folks on here preaching against the NTCC. We had to put up with the NTCCs preaching or leave their church, and NTCCers have to put up with the preaching here on this blog or just don't read it.
The biggest difference is we are preaching the "truth". Amen! I'm not trying to tell women that they can't have a job. There is no way the NTCC can back that up with the Bible.
Jeff
Oh yes,I totally agree. I come on here to let the world know about ntcc and there tatics. Making sure folks know the truth about this cult.
But another huge aspect why I come on here and used to go on TP blog. I can now use my voice! I was silenced for way to many years. Sat,smiled,nodded on cue,make good small talk,not make friends with church folks or local folks,make sure home is super clean,husband is happy. But really no care for ME! I did not matter. only the PREACHER and the church mattered! I can now come on here and duke it out when big bad MEN! ntcc men that think there above women. That we are not smart enough to have a conversation with. Besides what is for supper,and lets get ready for Church!
Freedom to choose to use my voice,my brain!!AWESOME!!
Women that are stuck in ntcc. Are you sick of looking cute,fake smiling,all you do is cook,clean. what are your hobbies(keeping home kind of hobbie's) You get together with sister,what do you all talk about. Latest dress sale,and coupons and grocery sale's!! No talk of world affairs,to heavy for women led by there emotions,right! NOT!
There is more of a life out there for you. That is staying in Gods will!
CM
Jeff,
I know that my posts were not going to get posted on Mike K. blog. I did it just to be heard by him. I could never talk and express my opinions while in ntcc. rw loves to bash women and there OPINIONS ! Remember woman all it is,is your opinion. That the man can decide to take or not take! Keep us in our place.
I know Mike K. would be to much of a COWARD to post my comments.
CM
I was at the Kekel's wedding and Sis. Blumenthal didn't sing "You Are So Beautiful" she sang "A Time For Us" she and her Sister sang you are so beautiful for Eddie and Yvonne Ramirez wedding which was the day before. T Kekel didn't have a long dress it was mid length. Her dad gave her a choice of what she wanted. A big wedding or something else. It wouldn't have been right if she had wanted a big wedding. Because so many others whose families could afford it were told to mind their own business from their loved ones.
ust B Honest said...
Just b honest.
Jeff said...
Thanks for clearing that up. I do desire the truth here and it seems quite clear that you know the facts about the wedding.
Having said that, I did look up the song "A time for us". It was sung by Johnny Mathis and Andy Williams. These were two artist which, (however good) were certainly not purely "Christian" vocalists by any measure. You brought the facts here which is good, and the song was still considered a secular song by NTCC standards, once again highlighting a double standard.
I had pastors who would have shot down either one of those two songs for a wedding or any other event. What RWD has effectively done is allow a bunch of renegade NTCC pastors to run rough shod over their congregations for decades with rules that RWD promoted but didn't thoroughly enforce. Had I known all along that those songs were sung for the Kekels and Ramirez weddings, I wouldn't have allowed the continual bashing from NTCC preachers about "ALL" secular music. They would have had to make quite a few exceptions or I would have had to leave which is what I ultimately did anyway thanks to the internet.
You also said: "Her dad gave her a choice of what she wanted." That is a novel concept/practice which many NTCC folks were never afforded. That is so sad. Once again, (Just Be Honest) thanks for the facts because they are good facts to know. This is great information and I appreciate your participation on this blog.
I'm glad you brought out the facts, "Just Be Honest" and the NTCC still can't have it both ways. You can't allow secular music for certain situations and events, but not for others. That is in fact a double standard and that is what I can't stand.
This is just another example of why this blog is here. Through it all with your help, (which I appreciate) the truth once again came out on this blog. I wonder how many NTCC folks know of this information? I hate double standards.
Jeff
It is quite telling how "be honest" tells us how it was that the kekels had a "small wedding" with somebody singing them a worldly song. rwd gave his daughter a choice of having a big wedding or somethinng else, and my guess is that, that something else, was the amount of money that a big wedding would have cost.
Why wouldn't others given that choice? Why would others not given permission to wed the way they wanted?
We all know why. Control.
The kekels always thinking about others, how sweet. not.
blovd
One thing's for sure--Mike and Tanya's wedding didn't get squeezed in after class at 10:30PM.
Jeff,
NTCC's rule of thumb is if you just add JESUS to the end of any song, that makes it OK!!
Lets take a look at where this could take us:
Baby Got Back! I like big butts and I cannot lie - JESUS!!
I like that Boom Boom Pow - JESUS!
I'm Bad! I'm Bad! You know it! JESUS!!
Who's That Girl? JESUS!!
Billie Jean is not my lover! JESUS!!
HEEYYYYY MACARENA JESUS!!!!
We can go places with this!!
Bro Johnson
Ha, ha, ha, ha. That's so funny Bro J. LOL. I like big butts and I can not lie you know that Jesus can not deny. Ha, ha, ha, ha. Baby got back.
That must be the song for all the house cleaning wives.
As long as you throw Jesus in there some where your good to go. That is just too funny to even get mad at. I give up, the NTCC wins.
When the NTCC needs more money all they have to do is throw in Jesus. When they don't want your wive to get a job just throw in Jesus. When they change their mind about wearing shorts, going to music festivels, going to Base Ball, Basket Ball, or Foot Ball games just throw in Jesus.
Olson is great at that. "Well it seem good to the Lord/Jesus" to give 39 acres of land away that was in the NTCC's name. Just throw in Jesus.
Quit your job for conference and just throw in Jesus.
Jeff
I think you guys are onto something here! Always wonder why ntcc flip flops there so called polcies that were sins back and forth.
This is how they do it. Stick the name of Jesus in and it makes it OK.
Wonder how Mike K. justifies listening to his country music. Just because God tells you it is Ok,is not enough!
CM
Jeff,
I found this little poem on the internet, thought it fit NTCC to a tee!! - Bro Johnson
Preach a sermon, Preacher, but don't preach very long;
Just tell a heart-warming story, but don't condemn the wrong.
Say not a thing about specific problems,
Because that's something we don't want to know.
We're just here to feel real good, so don't mess up the show
Preach a sermon, Preacher, but don't preach doctrine plain.
Let others guess at what is meant; don't ever call a name.
We'll sing your praises loud and long, and keep you many a day,
But preach it clear and you will hear, "Brother, be on your way."
Preach a sermon, Preacher, but say nothing of our duty,
Tell us all about God's grace, and picture Heaven's beauty.
Leave out things that we must do, we're busy making money;
Keep it short and off the point, and make it sweet as honey.
Preach a sermon, Preacher, but say nothing of our sins;
Don't speak of hell, repentance, or other stuff that offends.
Tell us about how Jesus loves each and everyone,
And how He'll forgive us, no matter how our lives are run.
Preach a sermon, Preacher, but make sure we're entertained.
With the right technique, there's sure to be new converts to be gained.
Tell us about church youth programs and our gospel band,
With these we're sure to win more souls, and give our Lord a hand.
Preach a sermon, Preacher, and speak of the day we die,
Tell all the folks about our home beyond the starry sky.
Preach a sermon, Preacher, make it strong, preach us straight to Heaven,
Tell us that since we have church membership, we get eternal living.
Dr. W.R. Crews from 'Playing Church," third printing July 1982
Jeff ,
I hope all is well with you and your family. Thanks for this blog I appreciate your hard work.
...Bro. Johnson your song was super funny! Thanks for the laughs. = )
...Blovd yes you hit the nail on the head the something else was money, and would you believe there was no church that night!!
...Vic you know this couldn't be something small.It had to be a big thing. Because you know who's daughter she is and no after class wedding was good enough for his baby...
...Just like Tanya was sheltered from going out and working on a real job or playing at living in the dorm (she could go home anytime she wanted). Yet, other minister's children were told they had to move into the dorm if they wanted to go to B. School. Or how about Kekel and her being sent out to pioneer a church? Starting with nothing as many have had to experience. Excuse me, but I don't count working out of Holly Hills church with Rev. Olson. Or the Bible School as experience enough to be put on the Board. Why weren't they sent out to pastor at North-side, or South-side church. It was hard to see these young couples with a family trying to pastor these churches. They were barely making ends meet. Why weren't they sent to work in a Service-men's home, so she could experience the love and appreciation from RW at conference. I quote "Lady, your nothing but a glorified toilet washer"! Yes it's hard to stomach all of this knowing the rules change when it comes to your own family. Daddy and Mama wanted her close by them. They missed her so much so a place had to be made for them up in Wa.
....Now don't be too harsh on the wedding songs. There weren't too many christian wedding songs back then. I heard RW ask the Sisters if they knew any christian songs, I don't think he really liked using them. But that's my opinion. But I know everyone really liked the "You Are So Beautiful" they just didn't insert Jesus ,but they actually wrote a verse. So what's wrong with the song it has no sexual connotations? Just cause it was played on the radio. The song was actually used for weddings. No one at that time carried around their big song book collections like they do now. Only a 2 ladies learned how to play the piano, and they sang. It was the Rodriguez Sisters who helped spread their music and learned songs so that others could use them. I remember many asked them for their music. No ladies sang wedding songs. The only one who sang them was Darwin Durek,he sang various ones. When he left I don't know if there was someone to sing wedding songs when there was a wedding. Darwin had a good voice. I know what your saying about the double standard, things were different back then. There are a lot of NTCC preachers who open mouth and insert foot. They don't know when to shut up. All they know how to do is blast people. They take pride in how they talk to people,they tell the other ministers yeah I told this man or woman this and this. I've heard them at conference use to make me sick. Thanks for letting me vent. Ya'll be good =)
I hope with the testimony of "be honest" those that come to read this blog will come to the conclusion I've come to, rwd is an exclusionist. Probably all that have been in one way or another "in" ntcc, have seen it too.
Just remember the times that there was a conference or a big fellowship, where were the board members? sitting by themselves with only a few preachers that rwd hand picked to sit with them.
Why are you affraid of sitting with the common brothers and sisters? They are not good enough for him? They can't teach him anything? which brings me to the time in a conference telling the pastors who wanted him to come to their church for a visit, he said:
"I won't visit some of you because you want to put me in a roach coach motel. I'll come to see you when you are doing something for God! when you are running more people than I! Only than will I come and see you so you can teach me how to build a church and tell me what method you're using to bring people in. In the mean time don't expect me to come by to preach to your 5 or 10 people." (puts hand in the air like slapping, silence..............)
blovd
Just-B-Honest said...
Jeff,
I hope all is well with you and your family.
Jeff said...
Thank you very much for the kind wishes. Everything is well with my family. I just tucked my little boy in bed for the evening. He just turned six and he is such a joy to have around. It would be kind of nice if the little fellow never grew up. They are such a pleasure at this age. That little fellow doesn't know anything but love; true love.
I truly feel for NTCC folks who wanted to have kids but didn't or the ones who didn't what to have kids but through it all have no idea what they missed out on. There is absolutely nothing in this world that compares to the joy that a child brings.
If you are on the fence about having kids NTCC folks, don't think twice; make it happen. You won't regret it. I'm sure glad and thankful that my little boy came into my life!!!!!!
Take care Just-B-Honest and thanks again for the warm wishes,
Jeff
Blovd quoted RWD as saying...
"I won't visit some of you because you want to put me in a roach coach motel. I'll come to see you when you are doing something for God! when you are running more people than I! Only than will I come and see you so you can teach me how to build a church and tell me what method you're using to bring people in. In the mean time don't expect me to come by to preach to your 5 or 10 people."
Jeff said...
I have heard RWD say something quite similar during conference. The man is so hung up on himself it's unbelievable. Even if that is the way he feels, making statements like that is not even necessary. He sure did go to visit Denis quite a bit I'll bet. Denis was quote "running" hundreds and look what that brought the NTCC!!! Double cross, treachery, and the split.
RWD's ways caught up with him on that occasion and I'm sure quite a few other times as well. No matter; it doesn't ultimately effect RWD in the grand scheme of things. RWD still lives the life of a celebrity and if everyone left his church today he would still be a millionaire and so would Kekel. Hard working GI's and preachers have made RWD and Kekel set for life. Believe it.
Thanks for the testimony Blovd. Your statement that I quoted should be yet another eye opener to anyone with eyes open and a heart willing to understand. If you and I have heard RWD make such statements others certainly have also. One just must be willing to admit the truth.
Jeff
From what I've heard (from current members of NTCC) many are against Obama's drive for govt run health care. On the flip side of that, so many of the preachers are poor enough that they're relying on Medicaid for their insurance. Now that doesn't seem right - does it?
You can't be against it with one hand and taking from the govt with the other hand
I've heard statements like this from Rev. Davis for about 20 years. I remember him saying he wanted a first class ticket also. He used the illustration of D.L. Moody riding the train first class. When another minister got on to Mr. Moody about not saving God's money Moody replied that he was saving God's preacher. It is much nicer to ride in 1st class but at what expense? Those poor church memebers draining their bank accounts for he can come preach for them! Thank you but no. He can stay in Washington and leave us alone. All he talks about for the past few years is himself when he preaches at the fellowship meetings. Yes, he does throw in some things about Christ but mainly it's what he has done etc. I can't even stand going to fellowship meetings anymore.
Yes, I know. I should have checked my comment before I hit send. So I hope you'll pardon the errors in the previous comment.
Someone needs to put a paper on the altar after Rev. Davis preaches at a fellowship meeting sometime saying, "We would see Jesus."
Anon said....From what I've heard (from current members of NTCC) many are against Obama's drive for govt run health care. On the flip side of that, so many of the preachers are poor enough that they're relying on Medicaid for their insurance. Now that doesn't seem right - does it?
You can't be against it with one hand and taking from the govt with the other hand.
Angie said.. I'm against it too. I doubt it will be better then the 600.00 dollars a month we pay for our medical with the medical plan we have now through my husbands job. We have to pay a $1,000.00 deductible PER PERSON (there are 4 of us so that is $4,000.00) a year. Before they will even cover 80% of our medical expenses. It has been well over 2 years since I have been to see my actual doctor(its also been 2 years since my hsuband started his current job). And you want to know why? We can't afford to pay full price for our doctors visits. We go to the doc n the box clinic and pay the 50 bucks. Instead of going to the actual doctors that we have had for the last 4 years to pay 300+ per visit until our 4k is paid off. Medical care is crap. I would rather go without it. The fine they are talking about imposing is actually cheaper then what we have to pay a year before our medical will start covering 80% of our expenses. The fine is less then 4k. Our total deductible is 4k .12 months of paying 600.00 a month comes out to 7,200.00. Add the 4k yearly deductible to what our total 12 months of paying 600.00 a month and you get $11,200.00. Yup definately cheaper to go without medical insurance.
So.. as I said to another person..it this so called awesome medical plan is put into affect. Then they can fine me all the heck they want to. Until they can come up with a better medical plan through my husbands job then what we have right now. I would much rather pay the fine.
Oh and while I'm at it.. Honk if I am paying your mortgage! Honk if I am paying for your car! Honk if I will be paying for your new appliances! I don't think my taxes should be used to pay for that crap and my taxes are already being used to pay for those on welfare who are too lazy to work.
If you can't tell I do not care at all for free loaders. I have always worked for what I have rather it be having a job (which I currently do) or being a full time Mom and Wife (which I currently do).
When I had my own business I didn't hire someone to run the store for me. I ran it myself.
I know there is a difference between being laid off and not being able to find work and ...living on welfare because you are to lazy to work. I see it all the time. I also know people who are perfectly capable of working but would rather barf their ego all over the place and not work instead of sucking it up and going back to a job they know they could have back in a heart beat.
We have a friend right now who he could go back to being a long haul driver. He has had offers. He doesn't want to. His WIFE is working 2 full time jobs while he sits on his butt at home all day refusing to go back to being a long haul trucker when he can't find work anywhere else. Because of him.. their house that is supposed to be paid off in less then a year is going to be repoed because his wife doesn't make enough money from her two jobs to be able to pay all the bills. But he would rather not swallow his pride and go back to the job he hates just to keep his family from being homeless. And I found out from his wife the other day that if he doesn't go back to work soon she is gonna divorce him. I would do the same thing in her situation. I was raised that the man is to be the main bread winner of the home. My Dad brought in the big money (the bigger paycheck) while my Mom worked so she could get out of the house. Which is how things are for me right now. My husband works 84 hours a week for a company in alaska for 2 weeks of every month and then comes home and spends time with us for 2 weeks. Because he can't find a job here in Idaho. He swallowed his pride and took the job he was offered instead of leaving me to handle everything. I work full time 40 hours a week. the graveyard shift. I didn't think I would like it but I actually do. Mostly because it gets me out of the house and my regular routine is not so boring anymore. But at the same time I am also working to help my parents out with bills since my Dad is on medical leave from his job and is taking a 40% cut in pay for it.
So when it comes down to it.. Obama can kiss my ever loving butt. And to think I sorta liked the guy at one time. Then I remembered when we lived in Illinois he was there still. And I remember him saying he was for education in the race for president.
Well tell that to all the schools in Illinois that had to consolidate or close because while he was there he was "for education".
The man is a smooth talker so most people who are gullible don't even notice that he is sugar coating lies worse then Davis ever has. And to think I wasted my vote. I should have just not voted.
Democrates are just as bad as Republicans and I vote for who ever I think should be in office. I don't sit on either party. I hate them both equally. Our government needs an over haul. A lot of people need to be fired and real honest to God people put in their place. But we know that will never happen so here's to hoping Obama doesn't raise my taxes any more then he already has with all his "promises".
He needs to stop using our tax money to pay for everyone's homes, cars, appliances, etc. We already donate to welfare and a social security program that is a joke!
Ok done making this a political thing. I didn't mean to do that considering I usually hate talking politics but right now I hate what is going on with our country and our new president and I hate that so many people are falling for it. So sorry Jeff. I am done with the whole politics thing. I promise never to mention it again.
Yeah Angie, I'm not very big on this whole politics thing. I paid attention to the issues long enough to know that both parties are crooked. What ever happens, happens. Like I always say, "It is what it is". I take care of my family because that is my job. I'm not waiting on the government to bail me out. I am however quite thankful for our government because of course I do receive a government retirement check every month and great government medical insurance. Our federal government has done a whole lot for me not the least of which is the freedom that we enjoy.
The best move I ever made was to spend 20 years in the Army. Believe it. Our government has done far more for our citizens then the NTCC will ever do. Believe that also.
Later,
Jeff
ladyleatherneck! wrote..."They are only allowed what Mike K. allows in HIS life. then in turn,folks in ntcc get it in there life! If he did not allow his son to play sports,play a gameboy,now a basketball court in his backyard and fooseball."
BTW ladyleatherneck!, it is not “now a basketball court” as the blacktop looks quite old. I wonder how they hid it from Pastor Davis all these years, and what he did when this was reported to him by those who attended the cookout?
In looking at the pictures of Rev. Kekel's 4th of July cookout, I noticed most of the people there have been in NTCC a long time. They know what NTCC was like, and is still like, as recent changes -- including the cookout, and the staged worldly graduation pictures -- have been cosmetic damage control (still compromise though), or changes that accommodate(d) Grant's existence (still compromise though).
Many in those pictures have children. Some that do started raising their children BG (before Grant).
Many are estranged from their children as a direct result of NTCC ‘policy’. You are right ladyleatherneck!, ‘policy’ magically started to change when Grant was born. Regressive changes that coincide(d) with the different stages of Grant’s life. But, they won't neglect (or question) the organization.
Many of those who don't have children had gotten the obligatory vasectomy that was in vogue only a few years ago. Many NTCC ministers pitched a private fit when Grant was born; especially the ones that had gotten snipped-for-God. But, where was their sense of public outrage (shame) when Grant was born?
Where was/is their sense of shame (outrage) over what Rev. Kekel has been 'allowed' to get away with; what he allows in his own family? Where was/is the public outrage (shame) toward Pastor Davis for his blatant hypocrisy in what he knowingly allows behind the scenes, while publicly preaching something else?
Where was/is their sense of shame (outrage) over all they denied their own children (and spouse, and selves) over the years, to rigidly conform to NTCC 'policy'?
Where was/is their sense of shame (outrage) over all the NTCC ‘policy’ they preached in the churches they may have Pastored; that directly caused people to deny their children a reasonable upbringing, and a reasonable life for their spouse and their self?
For many, it is too late to redeem back their life, as they are too old to start over (and they are some of the most vigorous defenders of NTCC…they must defend NTCC, as they have no hope in anything else), so they are stuck with whatever benefit they have gotten (and will get) from being involved with NTCC. Though, none of us can re-raise our children. Some of the ‘old timers’ have been with NTCC since the early 70’s and have nothing (in any appreciable sense) to show for it.
No appreciable savings...Do ANY NTCC ministers even have $50,000 saved after the decades they have been involved with NTCC, and that they didn’t inherit at someone’s death? How about $30,000? $10,000? $4,000? $500? Have they had at least $500 in savings for over 5 years (continuously), or just savings until the next move, conference, and/or pledge?
No investments (other than property and savings bonds, no other personal investments are authorized… the stock market is a no-no…the lottery is a no-no…welfare and/or food stamps are a no-no…etc.), no property, few secular skills, in many cases poor health (or soon to be poor health; that pesky getting old thing), damaged children, a divorce or two in their wake. If they have to work it is mostly at an entry-level job (that pesky routinely moving thing). If they have a good job, it will only last until their next move-for-God. The only thing they look forward to is the next fellowship meeting, overseers ‘visit’, ‘revival’, or conference.
Outrage and shame are interchangeable throughout this article. They should feel both from all the unconscionable ‘policy’ they regularly observe, experience, promote, and condone.
Heart wrenching…while simultaneously disgusting,
pdq
Exactly pdq!
Good to hear from you.
Jeff
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