Thread #60New blogs created by NTCC people are popping up like weeds all over the Internet which is amazing in itself because no more than 7 years ago the Internet was called the devilnet and the sinnernet by many NTCC ministers to include RWD. So I guess that God finally got on line with computers? Either that or RWD wasn't always inspired by God like he claimed. I strongly suspect it was the second. One of the most recent blogs has been created by an NTCC pastor by the name of Briggs for the express purpose of trying to convince exNTCCers to leave the NTCC alone once and for all. It is no more than a psychological ploy to encourage us exNTCCers to simply move on with our lives and forget that life in the NTCC ever existed. Let bygones be bygones, right? Did the Jews forget that 6 million of their people were slaughtered by the Nazi's during WWII? Do you think they just moved on? If someone murders one of your family members do you simply forget about it, make amends and turn the other cheek? Of course not.
Well I'm not going anywhere. The NTCC has thoroughly messed up the live of thousands of folks with their sinister tricks, psychological manipulation, financial extortion, abusive preaching and teaching tactics, craftily created marriage counselling designed to cause divorce, and outright lack of concern and consideration for their fellow man; all for the purpose of furthering the advancement of nepotism for monetary gain. There is "NOTHING" genuine or sincere about the information contained on the blog in question. The agenda is clear. To suppress the voices of the dissidents. PERIOD.
Well our voices are necessary. Many of us have moved far past the fear and the possibility of being intimidated by NTCC ministers. My mission is clear which is to find folks who are not afraid to write of their experience while with the NTCC. This is important because there are still NTCC people who are trapped by the NTCCs manipulative practices. Many of these people draw enough strength to leave the NTCC behind when they realize others have experienced the exact same treatment they are currently experiencing. They draw strength when they see that we fearlessly express our disgust for the NTCCs abuse with absolutely no negative ramifications coming against us.
Don't by off on this, "can we all just get along garbage". "Why don't we just let bygones be bygones"? Because that's garbage. They weren't preaching that trash when they were smearing and discrediting our names and reputations the minute that we left the NTCC. The days of NTCC folks manipulating and controlling me are over, so no; we all can't just get along. As long as you NTCC guys refuse to admit to the double standards and widespread abuse, I refuse to stop exposing you for exactly what you are; religious Pharisee style hypocrites.
Jeff
115 comments:
ha ha, they excuse davis by saying he didn't understand the technology.
that wouldn't be the case if he had his instructions from God as he claimed because God doesn't make mistakes. It wouldn't matter if davis understood it or not if God said these things are sins.
Exactly my point! That is just what they said. "Because he was getting old he didn't understand the technology." That is such a lame excuse. Why don't they just admit the guy was wrong or he was right and they are living in compromise?
I always make this same comment but once again their excuses are insulting to any intelligent human being.
Jeff
Hey Jeff,
While you were involved with NTCC, were you "Baptized in the Holy Ghost" as they teach and did you "speak in other tongues" as they teach and state in their "Doctrinal Statement" ?
I have heard and read a lot about the Holy Ghost and I am just wondering what was your experience concerning this "Baptism" in this church?
Thanks,
Just a Voice
Sounds like a trap from Just a voice. Maybe,maybe not!
Hey,
Just a Voice did you ever here this quote?
"when the young take over, there'll be compromise..."
Here is my take on that particular NTCC doctrine and subject. Of course the NTCC teaches that everyone who is baptized with the Holy Ghost will speak in tongues which is the outward physical evidence of the Holy Ghost baptism.
Well here is the suspicious part of that whole equation. Virtually everyone that I ever met in the NTCC who claimed to have been baptized with the Holy Ghost spoke in tongues with not one exception. Of course the perception was that the Holy Ghost himself was speaking through everyone of these individuals. We are talking about thousands of people, with their own mouth, displaying such a note worthy miracle, i.e. the speaking in tongues.
Why is it that God routinely and uniformly distributed such a spiritual gift to everyone while similtainously holding back virtually every other spiritual gift mentioned in the bible?
Here is my take. Because that is one of the only spiritual gifts that man can imitate and who could prove otherwise. You can't imitate turning water into wine or multiply the fishes and the loaves or miraculous healing, or calling down fire from heaven, or raising the dead.
So what they are saying is that every single solitary brother and sister in the NTCC speaks in tongues but God decided to hold back on the distribution of virtually every other spiritual gift with few unproven exceptions?
Think about it. I know that I only answered half of your question but that is my whole answer. Just food for thought. My thinking is no longer being manipulated. It is what it is.
Jeff
Anonymous said...
Sounds like a trap from Just a voice. Maybe,maybe not!
Jeff asked...
If it was a trap did I get captured?
Jeff
i received the baptism of the holy ghost and spoke in tongues before i ever heard of the doctrine or holy ghost at all.
i knew it was from God though.
yet, since this is pushed in ntcc and you want to conform and be right "with God" in ntcc and please the taskmasters, of course i am sure many "imitated" it or faked it.
just because you have the holy ghost doesn't make you automatically do right, you still need to really pray. real praying, not ntcc stuff.
yet ntcc discourages someone from really connecting and staying with God.
but if you do connect with God and follow Him, you wont stay around in NTCC much longer anyway.
Jeff has been captured.
Jeff is a prisoner.
May God have mercy on his soul.
And Jeff said...
Blah, blah, blah. Once again this is what you sound like.
Luke 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Give me a break.
Jeff
Greetings in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,
I would like to explain something about Pastor Briggs (and any other NTCC adherents) recent explanations/justifications of NTCC ‘policy’:
Other than the fact he is not one of the ruling families of NTCC, and therefore not an ‘official’ mouthpiece of NTCC…It has long been NTCCers custom to cite the same instances of abuse as non-NTCCers (thus validating our witness) in providing an explanation for them. What they are doing is sharing the thought process they personally use to make sense of the NTCC world around them.
Pastor Briggs has shared he is a successful Pastor, has money, has a lot of side money making endeavors, has been to an accredited college, does his own thing, is his own man, doesn’t answer to HQ, or run things by HQ. He is one of few exceptions. There are few other voices from within NTCC’s camp, very few others who are able to say “It’s working”, with the conviction and proof of Pastor Briggs. Many will tell themselves it’s not working because they are not doing it right, but my wife and I did everything right, yet never Pastored a Church that had more than 80 people for a Sunday Morning Service.
Well, we did everything right except we didn’t have money, had no side money making endeavors (other than the secular jobs we were sometimes required to get) as we were dedicated to being in the ministry full time (as we had ALL been taught), had not been to an accredited college (as we had ALL been taught), didn’t do our own thing (not complaining as this was no problem for me, plus this is what we were ALL taught), I was not my own man (not complaining as this was no problem for me, plus this is what we were ALL taught), always answered to HQ (not complaining as this was no problem for me, plus this is what we were ALL taught), and ran everything by HQ (not complaining as this was no problem for me, plus this is what we were ALL taught).
As Pastor Davis says (paraphrasing), “If you’re not going to do what you’re taught, why bother?” (Pastor Briggs has heard this also) So we did what we were taught, only. We were also ALL taught God NEVER blesses disobedience, yet Pastor Briggs is being blessed in doing his own thing. Is the Devil blessing Pastor Briggs, or were we taught wrong?
Continued…
Continuing…
Why does this matter? Why is any of this relevant? Again, what Rev. Brigg’s (and company) share is nothing that has come from NTCC’s ruling families. Yes, I am generalizing, there are exceptions.
The exceptions surface when their hand is forced; but then the ruling family’s resultant explanation is forced. e.g…
• Rev. Olson’s now legendary tortured explanation for the 39 acre gift of 501 (c)(3) land to the founder’s son-in law (explained by Rev. Olson);…
• why Rev. and Sister Kekel were ‘caught’ at a Blue Grass Festival (explained by Rev. Kekel);…
• why Grant plays organized sports (explained by Rev. Kekel), and why he wears shorts and football knickers;…
• why Rev. Kekel was having ‘petting parties’ (ala Dake) with Tanya, when she was a 13 to 16 year old women, and he was 23 to 26 year old boy (Not explained yet by an NTCC ruling family, but admitted to online by Rev. Kekel…although, its only been about 5 years since accurate negative online information about NTCC began to appear, what’s your rush? NTCC will get to it when the “planets are properly aligned [thanks Vic]”.);…
• why no one may date, but must talk only during fellowship, and only with permission (not explained yet by an NTCC ruling family);…
• how Rev. Kekel was able to become wealthy (compared to ALL non-ruling family NTCC ministers) enough only 2 years after marrying Tanya, to move to Graham WA from St. Louis MO on his own dime, build a new house in Graham (his first and last house, as it’s been Mansions ever since), completely furnish it (including window treatments), have a car, not have to work a secular job in Graham, etc. just by regularly buying savings bonds for those 2 years (not explained yet by an NTCC ruling family);…
• why Tanya wears tight dresses, shortened and changed the color of her hair (not explained yet by an NTCC ruling family);…
• why Verna wears/has worn make-up (not explained yet by an NTCC ruling family);…
• why the ruling families women wear ornamental jewelry (not explained yet by an NTCC ruling family);…
• why we can’t visit family without permission, or go home for weddings, funerals, births, graduations, bar mitzvahs, etc (not explained yet by an NTCC ruling family);…
• why conferences are no longer mandatory (not explained yet by an NTCC ruling family);…
• why Sister Olson, Sister Saminto, Sister Brill, Rev. Dawson, Rev. Pentoha (sent home to die, then died - RIP), Sister Davis, Rev. Keener (the son), Rev. DiFrancesco’s son, Jim in Graham, Sister Ashmore, Sister Wright, Rev. Bailey, Sister Crain, Rev. McAuliffe, Sister Gaylord (RIP), Pop Gaylord (RIP), and many others (incidents of diabetes in NTCC are also common), haven’t been healed yet (not explained yet by an NTCC ruling family);…
• why NTCC’s women wear pants (not explained by an NTCC’s ruling family);…
• why various forms of nail ‘treatments’ are OK (not explained yet by an NTCC ruling family);…
• why it’s being reported there is regularly an excessive amount of empty NyQuil bottles in Pastor Davis trash (Have you ever called Pastor Davis and he was severely slurring his words? I often have…not explained yet by an NTCC ruling family.);…
• why Pastor Davis retired after all the years of publicly saying he would never retire, why would a Preacher retire (not explained yet by an NTCC ruling family) (Pop never retired);…
• why tales are told about those who leave, before Matthew 18:15-17 is completely or even ever applied (well, NTCC does always apply verse 17 only--not explained yet by an NTCC ruling family);…
• why NTCC Graham is canceling services (not explained yet by an NTCC ruling family);…
• why DVD’s from the library are OK (not explained yet by an NTCC ruling family);…
• why the Graham HQ office has had internet access for over 10 years now (not explained yet by an NTCC ruling family);…
• etc. (not explained yet by an NTCC ruling family)…
Continued…
Continuing…
We have ALL made some/most/all of the same excuses and justifications for what we observed in NTCC, while a part of NTCC. But, was our reasoning accurate (was it sound)? We don’t know; no one ‘official’ will tell us the reason for all we ALL experienced and/or observed, and have questions about. Other than Rev. Kekel’s recent divine catch-all revelation that everything is only ‘policy’--take it or leave it, take what you want and leave the rest--and has been all along. As if this freshly minted classification/clarification melds with the facts of what we have ALL experienced, observed, and were taught over the past four decades.
Plus, things are changing, then not changing, then changing, then not changing, then changing… Then Rev. Kekel’s in charge, then he’s not in charge, then in charge, then not, then am, then am not, then am to… Then Rev. Kekel’s the spokesman for NTCC, then not, then is, then not… etc. Dizzy yet?
Whether someone wants to classify something as sin, rules, policy, requirements, the standard, a principle, precept, regulation, pattern, example, etc. the end result is the same…a regulation of behavior and/or thinking that is to be adhered to, or be wrong and out of step with NTCC, and therefore God, and therefore Pastor Davis.
But, in the recent past, the ‘still-in-place’ rules, policies, requirements, standards, principles, precepts, regulations, patterns, examples, etc. (whatever NTCC wants to now call them) were regularly publicly declared ‘sin’, that if violated the perpetrator would find themselves with sin in their life, and therefore be on the wrong side of NTCC, and therefore be on the wrong side of God, and therefore be on the wrong side of Pastor Davis.
I would also like for NTCC’s ruling families to publicly reconcile the accuracy of the recurring public ☺ “I can’t remember the last time I sinned” ☺ “All I do is by the Holy Ghost” ☺ “I’ve never missed God” ☺ Pastor Davis’ statements with all we have ALL experienced and observed in NTCC for the past 4 decades.
So what is a person left with when they stop providing justifications for everything we have ALL experienced and observed? A lot of questions, and many things that don’t make any sense. That’s why we are asking.
Ain’t skeered to be Yours In Him and In His Service,
pdq ♪♫♫♪♪♫♫♪♪.♫..♫...♪....♪.....
davis was good in understanding survelliance technology, for sure!!
JOSEPH
One thing that really bugs me is that we were always encouraged, and in some cases, told not to bring our Bibles to church. Pastor has taught that too many people will read them instead of listening to the sermon. I have heard him say many times in church that we could read our Bibles at home. If you were going to a Bible study most preachers allowed you to bring a Bible and open it.
That's why we were taught not to give out the scripture reference when reading the verses. If people didn't know where you were reading from they would put their Bibles down and listen. After a while you just quit bringing it at all.
When I first heard this, I thought it was odd but in a way made sense. You want people to listen and not be distracted. But the more I thought about it the more I realized how cult like that it is.
That way if you didn't know the location they mentioned they were free to twist it to suit their needs. Which they did often. And I always brought my bible to church. Because thats how I was brought up. Bring your bible to church and if the pastor gives a scripture verse find it and read along with him. Otherwise write the scripture verse down and read it later. I will admit that sometimes I will keep reading after I read the verse mentioned by the Pastor but he doesn't really seem to care. I take notes and I record the sermon with my digital voice recorder so I can listen to it later incase I missed something. OH and he doesn't care if people record the services. And eventually they will be doing a podcast so when those of use who teach sunday school can listen to it later off the churches website.
I always thought it was funny how pissed NTCC pastors would get just telling the congregation that there was no recording allowed.
THat right there proves their hiding something if they won't let you record the preaching.
Angie said...
That right there proves their hiding something if they won't let you record the preaching.
Jeff said...
So true. I hadn't really thought about that Angie. The NTCC is always hiding something. Church to church communication forbidden unless in organized fellowship meetings, no pictures at campground, having to ask permission to fellowship with ministers, having to ask permission for ministers to do work at your house, etc.
The NTCC is very secretive because they do have so much to hide.
Jeff
Here is another experience that I had with the NTCC. My family had left the Atlanta church to attend services with the Columbus church. Bro Cantrell who is an interior decorator with his own remodeling business lived in Atlanta and my family knew he and his family quite well because we had been in the same church with him for almost 2 years. We needed some remodeling work done on our house and we wanted Bro Cantrell to do the work and of course we had to ask permission to have him over to our house. He was in the Atlanta church and we were faithful at the Columbus church.
Of course we were going to hire him to do the work for pay at the going rate of labor which was at Bro Cantrell's discretion. The NTCC refused to give Bro Cantrell authorization to work at our house because we had left the Atlanta church. Be reminded that we left the Atlanta church because the pastor was abusive and we faithfully stayed in the NTCC paying tithes and all.
All kinds of faithful people had left the Atlanta church so this was a common problem that was no mystery to the Graham leadership who refused to allow Cantrell to do any work at my house. Basically what the leadership was telling me was that a Christian wasn't allowed to do work at my house but I could hire a quote "sinner" if I wanted to get the work done.
I can't stand the NTCC. Before that time and since then, collectively, the Altlanta church has lost no less than 4 NTCS graduate minister helpers who left the church; two of which I know for a fact left because they had problems with the pastor. Frankly I'm certain that all four left because of some kind of problem with the pastor.
HELLO, HELLO; is there anybody home? Earth to NTCC leadership, can you read me? Wake up out of your sleep and look at the facts you blind guides.
Jeff
Well said, pdq. thank you for explaining what I've been asking all these years. Why? Why so and so can do this but yet the preaching is about that you can't do that.
Everybody is running around just doing things and justifying themselves with: "grant kekel does it, or so and so does it."
I've talked to preachers wives and they have told me that they are doing their own thing, like inviting married couples to their houses and having them partake of their barbecues and even have them over to get into their hot tubs.
Now these same people are on the board. Could it be that maybe rwd is looking to this behaviour as been leadership material because they are able to do their own thing?
a.p.w.
Hey Jeff,
I am Just a Voice, and this is my first reply since you replied to my question on the Holy Ghost.
I agree with you that the "speaking in tongues" is not the only evidence of the Baptism.
Paul defined it in Galatians:
"The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
And they that are Christ's, have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit,
Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another."
My personal opinion, as Just a Voice of someone related to an NTCC minister, is that this is a litmus test for the observer to be able to determine if a person is truly Baptized in the Holy Ghost, or if they are just "speaking in tongues" or Babbling as so many do!
I agree that many who claim to be filled with the Spirit, do not exhibit these Biblical standards that simply define a true Spirit filled person.
Thanks Jeff,
Just a Voice
Good post Just a Voice. I agree with much of what you wrote if not all. I like the very last part where you wrote: I agree that many who claim to be filled with the Spirit, do not exhibit these Biblical standards that simply define a true Spirit filled person.
Once again, (for all it is worth because I am certainly no critic) good post.
Jeff
Thinking on the Bible topic, I just remembered this one time the preacher, I don't know who it was now, told us to just listen to him read the Scriptures because he said the rustling of the pages and everyone trying to find the verses took too long.
Oh brother...lol.
These preachers that teach that would absolutely HATE the church I am in now. It's 100% Bible usage for everything. :-)
Even at weddings! I went to a wedding at my church today. First time going to one like this and silly me didn't bring my Bible because in all the other weddings I have been too, it wasn't needed.
Not this wedding...lol. A really good message was taught and the speaker was going in depth with the Scriptures.
I really need to throw that pocket Bible back in my purse for emergencies such as this. :)
The Catholics don't bring their Bibles to church either and that always bothered me. Okay, so the message and all the Scripture is printed in a booklet in front of the pew, that's all good and all, but nothing beats the Word of God. Nothing!
Okay, I really need to go to bed so I can function properly at church tomorrow. :)
God Bless!
Another thing that really gets me is that all these years we have been taught, over and over, to avoid all appearance of evil. To NTCC that includes: movies, arcades, skating rinks, etc. All because people could think you were doing something wrong even if you weren't. Now NTCC gives Rev. Kekel 39 acres as a gift. Supposedly pastor bought it and put it in NTCC's name for the org. to use but since it's not being used he decides to give it to Rev. Kekel. This just screams of doing something wrong! What happened to avoiding the appearance of evil? If a pastor brings something in the a servicemen's home it belongs to NTCC. (except what he puts in his bedroom) This should go to the 39 acres also. Once put into NTCC's name it stays in the org. Not to be given as a gift to his son-in-law. Funny how the leaders can break the rules but not us little people.
I so wish my husband would wake up and smell the stink of NTCC and the apparent games they play.
Okay, now I just have to be nosy here...
Whom else in NTCC have started blogs? I wanna read! :-)
Links por favor! :-)
Dawn: I know that you like to read different blogs and such however you know my feelings about the NTCC. I don't promote their agenda, and that is what I feel like I would be doing if I posted links to their blogs in this website. There are many of them.
Jeff
Never Harm wrote...
Another thing that really gets me is that all these years we have been taught, over and over, to avoid all appearance of evil.
Jeff said...
That is exactly right. If I had a dollar for every time I heard that preached by an NTCC minister, I would be rich. Well the NTCC has thrown the whole concept of abstaining for the very appearance totally out the door. The example that you gave is just one of many where the appearance of evil clearly exists. In most cases it is more than "the appearance", it is evil. It is evil to preach against something for years just to go full speed ahead with it when RWD gets old. You know of all the examples; I don't have to list them.
You are right about property belonging to the NTCC. Property brought to the dorms often became NTCC property according to all accounts, and property brought into the serviceman's home often became NTCC property. Once something became "official" property of the NTCC, there was no taking it back or giving it away. So why should it be any different with RWD. I guess because he can break his own rules or "policies" as Kekel and his cohorts like to say it.
You see right through the mess just like many of us do. Just keep on keepin on. Things will work out. The home is only a happy place if the woman of the home is happy. Your husband can't possibility like the fact that you are not happy.
If nothing else, maybe he realizes that he can serve God anywhere. If God is only God of the NTCC we are all in trouble.
Jeff
Okay, I really need to go to bed so I can function properly at church tomorrow. :)
God Bless!
Actually Dawn, stay up all night, pray your heart out, in fact stay up for 72 hours doing nothing but fast and prayer.
When your elders see that you cannot function properly at church, but then realize that you are more spiritual and on fire for God than they are, they will despise you.
Like one NTCC preacher once said, Brother Joe Snuffy had CQ last night and had to work today AND is still in the House of God AND he is the song leader!! If he can make it to church (Hello!)...Blah Blah Blah give me money (sic) let's pass the offering plate around!!
One thing that I notice about NTCC preachers: When you have a closer walk with God than they do it just rubs them the wrong way!!!
That leds me to my next question: Are half of NTCC preachers even saved???
Bro Johnson
Bro Jeff:
Actually, there are two Gods! The one the leadership of NTCC worships (the god of Money), and then there is the
All Seeing, All knowing Lord of Hosts that the rest of us worship!!
Bro Johnson
PDQ,
I have to take a time out and say I enjoy reading your in depth anaylis of anything dealing with NTCC.
On the outside of NTCC now looking in, I am reminded of the secret in victory over NTCC shady polices, procedures, and what is "agreed among them"
1 COR 6:11 And such were some of you (in bondange in NTCC) but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit (that NTCC harps on you have to have) of our God.
Bro Johnson
"• why Rev. Kekel was having ‘petting parties’ (ala Dake) with Tanya, when she was a 13 to 16 year old women, and he was 23 to 26 year old boy (Not explained yet by an NTCC ruling family, but admitted to online by Rev. Kekel…"
Actually, he denied this. He said they "never went there," whatever that's supposed to mean. But I was there in the car when he went to boasting about his makeout/grope sessions, so he either lied then or he's lying now.
I vote for now.
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