Thread #34
*****************I have significantly changed the introduction to this thread. If you don't mind, please read it again because I have added some new points. I did a very poor job writing this earlier because I was in a hurry to leave for work. I've edited it quite a bit in the hopes of making it better while getting my point across more effectively. ******************
Secondly I would like to define the word "fellowshipping" as "socializing" because that is essentially what it is. I think the main reason that many folks perceived that the socializing was so good in the NTCC, was because for what ever reason they didn't have a very good social life prior to life in the NTCC. Then suddenly they found themselves in 5 services a week spending more time socializing before and after service then they ever had before they were with the NTCC. Knowing the way the NTCC operates I suspect that these new converts didn't even realize that their social life was probably no better than it was before they were with NTCC. They were tricked into thinking their social life was better by folks who were TAUGHT to act friendly, but in actuality could really care less about you. There were a few exceptions of course but not many.
Here is proof. First; how many so called NTCC friends have forsaken you because you decided to leave THEIR church? You call that a real friend? How many NTCC people, that you considered yourself to be good friends with throughout the years, are you even in touch with any longer. I suspect not many. I'm not talking about forums or blogging either. Even if you are still friends, you no doubt have all moved to different places, and you essentially have little or no contact with them at all with few exceptions. Am I right?
Millions of people who are not in the NTCC not only have a good social life, but any wise person realizes that friendships more often than not, are very short lived in life anyway. So basically the point that I'm making is what's the big deal about socializing which is essentially the same as fellowshipping? I do know it is important, but I would rather not have a friend at all, than have a fake NTCC friend, who thinks you have suddenly become the enemy as soon as you decide to leave THEIR church. Whats important is your family, because when all is said and done, they are generally the ones who will be there for you anyway. NTCC folks surely have proven they won't be there for you, even if you are interested in continuing to attend THEIR church.
RWD, Johnson, Kinson, and Kekel have figured this lesson out a long time ago, and that is why they all take care of each other and they don't take care of you. That is why they have big fat houses and drive nice cars and put Grant through the nicest schools while you go without. Word to the wise: Don't ever turn your back on your family or let the NTCC persuade you to do so, because for the most part, unless they have been brainwashed by the NTCC, your family will be there for you when everyone else has forsaken you.
Jeff
24 comments:
The elite are in it to the bitter end, and your right Jeff, they could care less about your own indiviudal situations. They all have a stake in ONE thing - making money and sucking us all dry of it ("DON'T forget to pay your tithe brother!!")
Friendships do bloom in NTCC, birds of a feather flock together.
The elite could be considered the He-Man Woman Hater's Club, because that is exactly what it is - women being subservant to men, the only exception is Verna and Tanya, Inc.
Charity never faileth. Where there is NTCC, so called friendships will fail. Where there are abusive preachers, the big front and put on and double crossing, talk behind your back matchmaking will fail.
Vanity of Vanities, all is vanity saith the preacher.
I named my daughter Charity. Please, give to Charity this year :)
The last comment was provided to you by Brother Johnson.
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That's right - learn the secrets of inviting people to church - AFTER the church service at 11:00 at night, where the REAL persecution starts for believers!!
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Tired of cleaning up your own house? Then clean up Tanya Kekel's too! See the life of luxury you DESERVE to have, but will never have due to giving all of your money to NTCC!!
That's right, AND for a limited time offer, we will ALSO send you the "Cheapscate's guide to begging" absolutely free!!!
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Jeff,
Just think about NTCC does everything they can to make sure you don't form any "bonds" with anyone. They tell you cannot have a best friend. They tell you whom your friends need to be.
No how delicately you leave...your so-called friends will drop you like a leper on fire because "you have nothing in common."
Yet they will talk to someone who hates God, doesn't want anything to do with church!
Whatever!
I notice there is a limit to the size of comments now. Therefore, I probably won't be posting as much because I don't think or usually speak in 'blurbs' about topics I am passionate about.
No great loss here as there are many others that post here that are able to say what I would say, but much more succinctly.
Ciao,
pdq
Hang tight just for a minute pdq. I had no idea, nor do I have any idea now, other than your message, that this was or is even the case. I truly value your input so lets see if there is something that I may have accidentally done to cause this, because I guarantee this was never my intent, and I don't know what I could have possibly done to cause this if anything?
Is there anyone else who is having the same problem? I will go over my settings right this minute to see if there is anything that could have changed, even though I don't know how?
Work with me pdq.
Sincerely,
Jeff
pdq: Try again. I was repeatedly editing the header to this thread precisely while you were trying to post and I believe me doing that, may have adversely effected your ability to post. I went over all settings and I could find nothing that would limit the length of someones responses. Please try again.
Jeff
Jeff,
Your blog still limits comments to 4,096 characters. Which is plenty. I will still stop in regularly and post applicable comments that are short enough...which again means I will not be posting as often.
I suspected Blogger probably did this. I did not ever think you had.
Hopefully I will have time to call you again soon.
Love you Man,
pdq
Yes, 4096 is quite a few characters. I have written many long comments and never exceeded 4096 as far as I know.
Jeff
Anonymous said...
Just think about NTCC does everything they can to make sure you don't form any "bonds" with anyone. They tell you cannot have a best friend. They tell you whom your friends need to be.
No how delicately you leave...your so-called friends will drop you like a leper on fire because "you have nothing in common."
Yet they will talk to someone who hates God, doesn't want anything to do with church!
Jeff said...
Exactly my point!!!! It's crazy isn't it?
Jeff
Jeff,
Somehow I missed this entire thread, but it hits home to me. I did make many very good friendships while in ntcc. But, usually, because everyone is moving around, I made friends with different people over different times.
The hardest part of leaving ntcc is knowing that you are leaving good friends behind and that you may never see or hear from them again. Most people will not talk to you when you leave, because they fear being yelled at by the leadership of ntcc. Especially being PUBLICLY jacked up in front of the whole church. This happened to me when Vic Johansen left. I was never able to just cut my friendships with people, so I talked to him occassionally after he left, because he was my friend. I made the mistake of telling someone about it (thinking they would understand), but they IMMEDIATELY narc'd on me to Rev. Davis. So that very night I was blasted from the pulpit for talking to Vic!!! And listen to this-- Davis said publicly, "You have to either chose us or him!" So me, being the spineless individual I was at the time meekly sought forgiveness from Davis, like a dog with his tail between his legs. And that folks is why people don't call you when you leave.
Here is a list of those brothers (and their wives) who were genuinely good people and whom I was friends with: Jim McKay, Tim Hasty, Tony Grey, Phil Mahalic, Curtis Annis, Reginald Terry, Frank Acosta, Mark Noel (and others I can't think of at the moment). I love you guys, you are the good people. It is my sincere prayer that you see ntcc for the bad church it really is and leave while you still have the years to salvage your lives and the lives of your families. You guys deserve alot better than ntcc.
Thanks for the memories!
Casey,
I made some amazing friends in NTCC. I still talk to some friends in NTCC. There are others that don't know the real value of friendship. Then are others that are brainwashed, and you have to dig down deep for forgiveness when they say unkind things to you.
I think some people in NTCC have lost sight of what is true friendship. There are some in NTCC that continue to attend, because they don't want to lose their friends.
Sad...
NS
sorry,but extremly long blog message's can yet a bit boring. Hard to keep reading and reading and reading. Blogs are meant to be short and to the point.
anon,
do you have add? you must like those 17 minute "sermons" in ntcc too
when they say absolutely nothing over and over again, you dont have to think or comprehend, just occasionally shout "amen" when the preacher asks for it
t
t,
Perhaps anon is entertained by hearing holiness preached for the umteenth time.
ns
Anonymous said..."sorry,but extremly long blog message's can yet a bit boring. Hard to keep reading and reading and reading. Blogs are meant to be short and to the point."
I didn't know there were rules for posting to this blog? As Jeff has shared many times, we can post what we care to, in the manner we desire.
The NTCC is a subject matter of interest to me, and I feel I have something relevant to contribute, and what I want to say (or need to say) can't be properly expressed with a sound bite.
Personally, I do not mind reading long posts. I like to read, and the comments are edifying to me personally. Although what others say is validating, I don't seek or need validation.
I know what I experienced, observed, and concluded after almost 20 years with NTCC, so I don't seek this here. I add my witness to what others share because I desire to.
I read all the posts (as far as I am aware) because I believe in being fully involved in whatever catches my fancy. This is why I am such a good NTCCer (yes, I am still ‘in’).
Another reason my posts are long is I view these blogs, FACTNet, Wikipedia, etc. as a reference and a tool, to be used by those who want what some of us have...detailed insiders knowledge of NTCC, to help them decide if they want freedom or a continued oppressed life. I am still involved with NTCC, but I don’t ignore (or contradict) the truth about them online.
So, if you see a pdq post in the future just scroll past it, I will not care. As I posted above, if I didn’t contribute, others share the same things I do. I post because I want to, and the way I want to, and receive very few complaints (not that complaints would matter).
But, just for the fun of it…what if people started posting observations in the following manner (each bullet point would be a separate post):
• Rev. Kekel was a pedophile (hopefully reformed).
• My Pastor stole my mail when I lived in the servicemen’s home.
• Sister Kekel is lascivious; she dresses like an upscale whore.
• Pastor Davis is a bully.
• Pastor Davis drinks Nyquil, not in accordance with labeled directions.
• One NTCC Pastor has given blow-jobs to the brothers that live in the servicemen’s home.
• My NTCC Pastor hit on the Sisters in the Church…and was sometimes successful.
• Verna Davis wears make-up.
• Pastor Davis tells dirty jokes.
• Rev. Gandy is a bully.
• Pastor Davis is a serial adulterer.
• NTCC gave the founders son-in-law 39 acres of church property.
• My NTCC Pastor borrowed money from me and never paid it back.
• My NTCC Overseer would point out Sisters that would sleep with me if I would ask them.
• Pastor Davis was kicked out of a Pastorate for committing adultery with the wives of three of his church members.
• Etc?
Don’t people who make such claims have a responsibility to present all evidence to support their assertions? Then they need to post comments long enough to completely support any claims.
This blog is not some half baked, ill conceived gossip session, but an official record, from personal testimony, of all that is wrong with a church organization.
Yours In Him,
pdq
pdq said-
"one pastor has given blow-jobs to me who live in the service men's home"
WHATTTTTTTT!!??????
i hate ntcc, but come on now, that is a little ridiculous, i have never heard anyone say that or imply it
one other question-
pdq, why in the world are you still in?
you are one of the most ferocious anti-ntcc people on here.!?
T
Thanks for your comment t.
If you know where to look, or ask the right people, you can find a lot of non-public information on the 'characters' that are leading (driving) NTCC.
The 'blow-job' allegation was privately shared by someone who was physically...uh...there.
There is testimony even worse than the blow-job allegation, and Rev. Kekel's past penchant for pedophilia, out there. Which may eventually come to light when the parties involved desire this.
I said I was 'in'...notice the quotes, and that I was involved with NTCC. These statements are both true. Although, my relationship with NTCC at this time is non-traditional, and entirely driven by their decisions, hence the quotes around 'in.' The final disposition of their relationship with me is entirely up to them.
Sorry for being so cryptic, but the point of my post was (as I am sure you 'got')...lengthy posts are needed (at least by me) to present as complete a witness as possible, to be fair to all parties in involved. As opposed to merely making 'sound bite' accusations sans any supporting data.
pdq
does "beetle bailey" ring a bell?
t
t; I have previously heard allegations of a gay pastor also. I just simply never had enough personal knowledge of the situations in question. I didn't even know any of the brothers in the church in question or I didn't have any direct contact with anyone making the allegations. I have to have some pretty good facts before pushing an issue like that!!!
However what I did hear came second hand from some very credible sources and more then one person spoke of it. You can find information about it on the old factnet forum. The NTCC has had a pastor with a SERIOUSLY questionable sexual orientation. That fact is certain because too many people spoke about it and wrote about it for it to have been simply hearsay. Yeah there was a pastor of a serviceman's home who had some issues for sure. There was much talk of it for a while.
The guy seems to have been gay by all accounts. It's my understanding that he went both ways because if my recollection is accurate he was married. There was some talk of some brothers seeing his wife naked in the serviceman's home one time because supposedly the bedroom door was DELIBERATELY left wide open.
Now having said all that, I can safely say that is one thing for sure that the NTCC does not promote. The NTCC promotes abuse, double standards, stupid rules that are rules one day and not the next, false doctrine and so on, but the NTCC does not promote homosexuality. This guy was the exception not the standard. Like I said, everything that I heard all came second hand at best.
Once again, another accurate, true testimony given by Jeff Collins.
Jeff
Jeff,
Alot of people in NTCC do not know what real friendship is about. Real friends don't pump and prime you for information, then run and tell the Pastor. Then have the nerve to accuse you of gossip, because you told them whats wrong.
Reminds me of a Hallmark card I once read. It was a "I'll Miss You" card. When you open the card it says "Here's your knife back"! As in backstabbing!
Anon!
pdq
You said...Rev. Kekel's past penchant for pedophilia, out there. Which may eventually come to light when the parties involved desire this.
Do you know the parties involved? This sounds unbelievable!
As for the gay pastors in NTCC, I knew of 2 when we were in the org. Their licenses were taken from them and both their wives divorced these them. It was one of the issues addressed at a conference held in Myrtle Beach.
Jeff,
I was thinking about some of my good friends who went to Bible college.
There is a clear before and after picture. Before my friend "Darla" went to Bible school she was personable, fun to be with and a good confidant. She was all the qualities of a good friend and more.
When I saw her at a conference before I left, she was not the same person. She's colder, unfeeling at times. The only time I see a spark in her eye is when she is talking about how great(and merciful) the leadership is to everyone. My friend is not the person she used to be, but nonetheless she is my friend wheter she realizes it or not. Miraculously we are still on speaking terms, since I left the church. Of course they are in financial dire straits. She is still young, I don't want her to waste her future and talent. How do I confront her about the path she has taken in life before it is too late? Has anyone else had to confront a struggling friend? I want to be a true friend.
Bellah-Donya
ntcc church pastor of oki japan broke my family apart,but that okay we had to go on with are life and the hurt,pain a child without her daddy because of this church but our blood is on that pastor and wifes hands so they have to stand before god for that i wish i could just see them one last time, cause i wish i could remember his name .i got a few things to say
Has anyone ever heard Rev. Davis and other preachers teach and preach about how a man should do the finances? Also I have heard some crazy things about how to treat your wife sometimes. How is a Christain husband ever going to reach his sinner wife in NTCC if he picks up the negative message? Like I said before some stuff in NTCC is bible, but what about the other stuff mixed in there? I heard rev. Davis preach that if a man let his wife do the finances he is worse than an infidel. I also remember during a Q&A session a preacher taught that it was OK that a wife do the finances if a husband was worthless and too dumb to figure it out for himself. They do feed us from the bible. We are well fed with our bellies full, but what good is it sprinkled with a little bit of poison. We struggled in our marriage and finances because of this message. My husband is very busy always being one of the best at his job and also a wonderful christian influence. He was so busy being such an excellent provider and amazing father spending quality time with his children as soon as he arrived home, that he didn't have time for the finances, not to mention that he also traveled often. We discussed the issue for me to help him do the finances. He suffered emotionaly, saying that he felt like a horrible husband, because he said he was supposed to take care of the finances. We had a difficult time with the issue. I let him know how I appreciated everything he does for the family and that I could help him because I stayed home. I had to assure him that he provided more than enough to support us. I told him about Poverbs 31:11 and different verses. Pov 31:11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil. I explained to him that he could still bring home the bread and I could divide it evenly amongst our family. I let him know that he was obviously incredibly intelligent and that I actually enjoyed helping. We are now debt free and doing great financially. Thank God, he has Blessed us with houses, autos, and savings. All while being a stay at home mom of beautiful small children. My husband has let me know that he loves that I am a big saver. Now my husband has more time to freely enjoy his family with one one less thing on his mind. Note, we are in no wise rich or big money makers, it has just been a matter of taking the time to budget carefully, having the discipline to follow through with the budget plan, and being consistance. Dave Ramsey is also a good financial speaker/teacher for some people. For many years now we have also paid our tithe. NTCC has taught us quite a few things that have negatively affected our young marriage. Most of our many years of marriage has been in NTCC. We had to overcome through trail and error. We also attended counseling sessions elsewhere. We have survived and gained strength as a couple. Thank God for all he has done for us.
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